Discussion:
.. and the Harper Fragment, also due to the neurological damage?
(too old to reply)
Piotr Mancini
2020-08-20 03:13:58 UTC
Permalink
I was explaining to one of the members of the JFK Numbers team -world
class 3D designers and scientists- the following:

"There are two simulation categories.

(a) Hollywood: If I tell the author that upon impact flower bouquets and a
choir of angels emerged from the victim's cranium and chest, they will do
exactly that.

(b) Mathematics and Physics based, Finite Element Analysis/Computational
Fluid Dynamics (FEA/CFD). (*)

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLof8jFzqbDPJIiEREC5GipycH-M6OsSP3

If I ask them:

"After impact the force vector was such and such, and the body snapped
here and there".

They will reply:

"Ramon, I don't care how much you paid us (actually you are stinking
cheap, aren't you, Mister Supported-by-The-Kennedys Herrera?), all we can
do is fire the projectile, from any location and angle, weapon of your
choice, bullet of any caliber, hitting any desired spot in the cranium
model extracted from the victim's X-rays, with the maximum precision, wind
speed and direction, temperature, barometric pressure, sun position, cloud
coverage ...

.. from then on, the Immutable Laws of Physics are strictly followed by
the best simulation software ever created (**).

This is the full collection of head shots so far. It is unique in the
world. As you can see, there has been plenty of progress along the years.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLof8jFzqbDPK8OH2ix3yVUO2fm67yonGN

But -as usual- I digress.

What was the explanation for the Harper Fragment landing meters behind the
limo? (And its disappearance?)

The Random Neurological Damage, too?

-Ramon
JFK Numbers

(*) There is a 3rd. category:

(c) Utter fabrications, gigantic heaps of potent bovine/equine manure,
proclaimed by people who have absolutely no clue about Forensic Cases
where Ballistics of Cranium and Cerebrum are involved, or the minimal
required education, such as the Haags (father and son), "scholar" (RLMAO)
Larry "Sturdivan, the "scientists" from the Boston University School of
Medicine (who never signed the "definite" 2013 study paid with the Koch
credit card), Gerald Posner, Esquire (or his faithful secretary Dale
Lyers), Michael Maden, MD (***), Vincent DiMaio, MD, etc.

http://jfknumbers-forum.org/The_Time_Machine/forensic/boston-university-school-medicine.html

(**) ANSYS, in Explicit Dynamics mode, used to study events of large
energy, short duration:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BydXldbRY__vRUtNWTNTQTZSQzg

(***) Close friend of His Holiness, Cyril I. First Jewish Pope since St.
Peter... Not too shabby!
Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
2020-08-20 13:31:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Piotr Mancini
I was explaining to one of the members of the JFK Numbers team -world
"There are two simulation categories.
(a) Hollywood: If I tell the author that upon impact flower bouquets and a
choir of angels emerged from the victim's cranium and chest, they will do
exactly that.
(b) Mathematics and Physics based, Finite Element Analysis/Computational
Fluid Dynamics (FEA/CFD). (*)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLof8jFzqbDPJIiEREC5GipycH-M6OsSP3
"After impact the force vector was such and such, and the body snapped
here and there".
"Ramon, I don't care how much you paid us (actually you are stinking
cheap, aren't you, Mister Supported-by-The-Kennedys Herrera?), all we can
do is fire the projectile, from any location and angle, weapon of your
choice, bullet of any caliber, hitting any desired spot in the cranium
model extracted from the victim's X-rays, with the maximum precision, wind
speed and direction, temperature, barometric pressure, sun position, cloud
coverage ...
.. from then on, the Immutable Laws of Physics are strictly followed by
the best simulation software ever created (**).
This is the full collection of head shots so far. It is unique in the
world. As you can see, there has been plenty of progress along the years.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLof8jFzqbDPK8OH2ix3yVUO2fm67yonGN
But -as usual- I digress.
What was the explanation for the Harper Fragment landing meters behind the
limo? (And its disappearance?) [deletia]
The explanation is simple: You bought into the world of conspiracy bunkum.
It didn't land behind the limo. Please quote the document or the testimony
that puts the Harper fragment behind the position of the limo at the time
of the head shot.

Bet you can't. You will only be able to quote secondary (conspiracy)
sources that make that claim. But they are lying to their readers.

Please show this fragment moving backward in any film or photograph. You
cannot. The Zapruder film shows all the matter ejected from the
President's head (including the Harper Fragment) moving forward of the
President at frame 313. You yourself can even see the Harper fragment (if
you choose to look) making multiple rotations in the sun in that frame at
approximately the one o'clock position to the President's head. Indeed,
the lead core of the bullet itself went on to strike the south curb of
Main Street near the position of James Tague and striking James Tague
himself. Both the curb and the bullet are forward of the position of the
limo at the time of the head shot.

Loading Image...

The autopsy doctors conducted an autopsy on the evening of the President's
assassination and they determined the President suffered two bullet
wounds, both inflicted from above and behind.

You have no evidence - none! - of a bullet striking the President and
driving any bone backward.

Josiah Thompson published the document that exposes this "behind the limo"
claim as a canard back in 1967 in SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS. See page 301 of
that book.

Here we are 53 years later and you're so far down the rabbit hole you
don't even realize your conspiracy sources have been lying about this for
more than five decades.

Hank
Anthony Marsh
2020-08-20 19:40:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Piotr Mancini
I was explaining to one of the members of the JFK Numbers team -world
"There are two simulation categories.
(a) Hollywood: If I tell the author that upon impact flower bouquets and a
choir of angels emerged from the victim's cranium and chest, they will do
exactly that.
(b) Mathematics and Physics based, Finite Element Analysis/Computational
Fluid Dynamics (FEA/CFD). (*)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLof8jFzqbDPJIiEREC5GipycH-M6OsSP3
"After impact the force vector was such and such, and the body snapped
here and there".
"Ramon, I don't care how much you paid us (actually you are stinking
cheap, aren't you, Mister Supported-by-The-Kennedys Herrera?), all we can
do is fire the projectile, from any location and angle, weapon of your
choice, bullet of any caliber, hitting any desired spot in the cranium
model extracted from the victim's X-rays, with the maximum precision, wind
speed and direction, temperature, barometric pressure, sun position, cloud
coverage ...
.. from then on, the Immutable Laws of Physics are strictly followed by
the best simulation software ever created (**).
This is the full collection of head shots so far. It is unique in the
world. As you can see, there has been plenty of progress along the years.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLof8jFzqbDPK8OH2ix3yVUO2fm67yonGN
But -as usual- I digress.
What was the explanation for the Harper Fragment landing meters behind the
limo? (And its disappearance?) [deletia]
The explanation is simple: You bought into the world of conspiracy bunkum.
It didn't land behind the limo. Please quote the document or the testimony
that puts the Harper fragment behind the position of the limo at the time
of the head shot.
Bet you can't. You will only be able to quote secondary (conspiracy)
sources that make that claim. But they are lying to their readers.
Please show this fragment moving backward in any film or photograph. You
cannot. The Zapruder film shows all the matter ejected from the
President's head (including the Harper Fragment) moving forward of the
President at frame 313. You yourself can even see the Harper fragment (if
you choose to look) making multiple rotations in the sun in that frame at
approximately the one o'clock position to the President's head. Indeed,
the lead core of the bullet itself went on to strike the south curb of
Main Street near the position of James Tague and striking James Tague
himself. Both the curb and the bullet are forward of the position of the
limo at the time of the head shot.
https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z313.jpg
The autopsy doctors conducted an autopsy on the evening of the President's
assassination and they determined the President suffered two bullet
wounds, both inflicted from above and behind.
You have no evidence - none! - of a bullet striking the President and
driving any bone backward.
Josiah Thompson published the document that exposes this "behind the limo"
claim as a canard back in 1967 in SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS. See page 301 of
that book.
Here we are 53 years later and you're so far down the rabbit hole you
don't even realize your conspiracy sources have been lying about this for
more than five decades.
Silly. I've pointed out their lies and mistakes for many years before
you were even born. Everyone makes mistakes, even you.
But I don't go around calling everyone a liar. That's YOUR trick.
Is that your only way to avoid discussing issues, to call everyone a
liar? You shouold be like Trump and call everything a hoax.
Then he turns arouns and says he likes Q-annon.
And pardons liars.
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Hank
Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
2020-08-20 23:32:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Piotr Mancini
I was explaining to one of the members of the JFK Numbers team -world
"There are two simulation categories.
(a) Hollywood: If I tell the author that upon impact flower bouquets and a
choir of angels emerged from the victim's cranium and chest, they will do
exactly that.
(b) Mathematics and Physics based, Finite Element Analysis/Computational
Fluid Dynamics (FEA/CFD). (*)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLof8jFzqbDPJIiEREC5GipycH-M6OsSP3
"After impact the force vector was such and such, and the body snapped
here and there".
"Ramon, I don't care how much you paid us (actually you are stinking
cheap, aren't you, Mister Supported-by-The-Kennedys Herrera?), all we can
do is fire the projectile, from any location and angle, weapon of your
choice, bullet of any caliber, hitting any desired spot in the cranium
model extracted from the victim's X-rays, with the maximum precision, wind
speed and direction, temperature, barometric pressure, sun position, cloud
coverage ...
.. from then on, the Immutable Laws of Physics are strictly followed by
the best simulation software ever created (**).
This is the full collection of head shots so far. It is unique in the
world. As you can see, there has been plenty of progress along the years.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLof8jFzqbDPK8OH2ix3yVUO2fm67yonGN
But -as usual- I digress.
What was the explanation for the Harper Fragment landing meters behind the
limo? (And its disappearance?) [deletia]
The explanation is simple: You bought into the world of conspiracy bunkum.
It didn't land behind the limo. Please quote the document or the testimony
that puts the Harper fragment behind the position of the limo at the time
of the head shot.
Bet you can't. You will only be able to quote secondary (conspiracy)
sources that make that claim. But they are lying to their readers.
Please show this fragment moving backward in any film or photograph. You
cannot. The Zapruder film shows all the matter ejected from the
President's head (including the Harper Fragment) moving forward of the
President at frame 313. You yourself can even see the Harper fragment (if
you choose to look) making multiple rotations in the sun in that frame at
approximately the one o'clock position to the President's head. Indeed,
the lead core of the bullet itself went on to strike the south curb of
Main Street near the position of James Tague and striking James Tague
himself. Both the curb and the bullet are forward of the position of the
limo at the time of the head shot.
https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z313.jpg
The autopsy doctors conducted an autopsy on the evening of the President's
assassination and they determined the President suffered two bullet
wounds, both inflicted from above and behind.
You have no evidence - none! - of a bullet striking the President and
driving any bone backward.
Josiah Thompson published the document that exposes this "behind the limo"
claim as a canard back in 1967 in SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS. See page 301 of
that book.
Here we are 53 years later and you're so far down the rabbit hole you
don't even realize your conspiracy sources have been lying about this for
more than five decades.
Silly. I've pointed out their lies and mistakes for many years before
you were even born. Everyone makes mistakes, even you.
Interesting. What year was I born, Tony? You have no clue, but suffice to
say I was able to read and write and was in grammar school at the time of
the assassination.

You've been pointing out the the lies and mistakes of JFK conspiracy
theorists since the 1940's, is that right? That's what your claim above
says if you truly think you've been pointing out CT lies and mistakes
since before I was born.

Better to say nothing sometimes, Tony.
Post by Anthony Marsh
But I don't go around calling everyone a liar. That's YOUR trick.
Like the baseball umpire, Bill Klem, I calls 'em as I sees 'em. CT authors
lie through and through. Count your fingers if you shake hands with
one.

In the mid-sixties, I was a conspiracy theorist like you. It wasn't until
I actually delved into the Warren Commission 26 volumes for myself (and
the 12 HSCA volumes) and read everything for myself that I realized I
shouldn't trust conspiracy authors to tell it to me straight... they had
books to sell, and a "You know what, the Warren Commission got it right"
story line doesn't sell a lot of books.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Is that your only way to avoid discussing issues, to call everyone a
liar?
I pointed out exactly what they lied about, and cited chapter and verse.
Instead of attacking me for pointing out that the OP swallowed the CT
bunkum hook, line, and sinker, try rebutting the points I made. I did
notice you avoided addressing those at all. Is there any particular reason
you avoided actually rebutting the points I made? Couldn't do it, huh?
Post by Anthony Marsh
You shouold be like Trump and call everything a hoax.
Then he turns arouns and says he likes Q-annon.
And pardons liars.
Ad hominem. Try rebutting the points I made.

Stone is a CT author, right? Trump pardoned Stone:

https://www.nytimes.com/article/trump-pardons-commutations.html

You just made my point for me. Thanks a bunch!

Hank
BOZ
2020-08-21 12:21:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Piotr Mancini
I was explaining to one of the members of the JFK Numbers team -world
"There are two simulation categories.
(a) Hollywood: If I tell the author that upon impact flower bouquets and a
choir of angels emerged from the victim's cranium and chest, they will do
exactly that.
(b) Mathematics and Physics based, Finite Element Analysis/Computational
Fluid Dynamics (FEA/CFD). (*)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLof8jFzqbDPJIiEREC5GipycH-M6OsSP3
"After impact the force vector was such and such, and the body snapped
here and there".
"Ramon, I don't care how much you paid us (actually you are stinking
cheap, aren't you, Mister Supported-by-The-Kennedys Herrera?), all we can
do is fire the projectile, from any location and angle, weapon of your
choice, bullet of any caliber, hitting any desired spot in the cranium
model extracted from the victim's X-rays, with the maximum precision, wind
speed and direction, temperature, barometric pressure, sun position, cloud
coverage ...
.. from then on, the Immutable Laws of Physics are strictly followed by
the best simulation software ever created (**).
This is the full collection of head shots so far. It is unique in the
world. As you can see, there has been plenty of progress along the years.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLof8jFzqbDPK8OH2ix3yVUO2fm67yonGN
But -as usual- I digress.
What was the explanation for the Harper Fragment landing meters behind the
limo? (And its disappearance?) [deletia]
The explanation is simple: You bought into the world of conspiracy bunkum.
It didn't land behind the limo. Please quote the document or the testimony
that puts the Harper fragment behind the position of the limo at the time
of the head shot.
Bet you can't. You will only be able to quote secondary (conspiracy)
sources that make that claim. But they are lying to their readers.
Please show this fragment moving backward in any film or photograph. You
cannot. The Zapruder film shows all the matter ejected from the
President's head (including the Harper Fragment) moving forward of the
President at frame 313. You yourself can even see the Harper fragment (if
you choose to look) making multiple rotations in the sun in that frame at
approximately the one o'clock position to the President's head. Indeed,
the lead core of the bullet itself went on to strike the south curb of
Main Street near the position of James Tague and striking James Tague
himself. Both the curb and the bullet are forward of the position of the
limo at the time of the head shot.
https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z313.jpg
The autopsy doctors conducted an autopsy on the evening of the President's
assassination and they determined the President suffered two bullet
wounds, both inflicted from above and behind.
You have no evidence - none! - of a bullet striking the President and
driving any bone backward.
Josiah Thompson published the document that exposes this "behind the limo"
claim as a canard back in 1967 in SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS. See page 301 of
that book.
Here we are 53 years later and you're so far down the rabbit hole you
don't even realize your conspiracy sources have been lying about this for
more than five decades.
Silly. I've pointed out their lies and mistakes for many years before
you were even born. Everyone makes mistakes, even you.
But I don't go around calling everyone a liar. That's YOUR trick.
Is that your only way to avoid discussing issues, to call everyone a
liar? You shouold be like Trump and call everything a hoax.
Then he turns arouns and says he likes Q-annon.
And pardons liars.
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Hank
What happened to Kevin Clinesmith? John Durham is interviewing that old
bald-headed leftwing bastard named John Brennan tomorrow.
Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
2020-09-04 17:21:01 UTC
Permalink
Still waiting for a clarification / retraction on the factual inaccuracy /
imbedded assumption in your post, Piotr / Ramon. The Harper skull fragment
was found south of the limo. Look at a map and draw a line south from the
location of the limo at the time of the head shot. Is "south" behind the
limo? Or to the left front?

If you want to get the right answer, you have to have the facts. Not the
conspiracy myths.

Hank
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Piotr Mancini
I was explaining to one of the members of the JFK Numbers team -world
"There are two simulation categories.
(a) Hollywood: If I tell the author that upon impact flower bouquets and a
choir of angels emerged from the victim's cranium and chest, they will do
exactly that.
(b) Mathematics and Physics based, Finite Element Analysis/Computational
Fluid Dynamics (FEA/CFD). (*)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLof8jFzqbDPJIiEREC5GipycH-M6OsSP3
"After impact the force vector was such and such, and the body snapped
here and there".
"Ramon, I don't care how much you paid us (actually you are stinking
cheap, aren't you, Mister Supported-by-The-Kennedys Herrera?), all we can
do is fire the projectile, from any location and angle, weapon of your
choice, bullet of any caliber, hitting any desired spot in the cranium
model extracted from the victim's X-rays, with the maximum precision, wind
speed and direction, temperature, barometric pressure, sun position, cloud
coverage ...
.. from then on, the Immutable Laws of Physics are strictly followed by
the best simulation software ever created (**).
This is the full collection of head shots so far. It is unique in the
world. As you can see, there has been plenty of progress along the years.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLof8jFzqbDPK8OH2ix3yVUO2fm67yonGN
But -as usual- I digress.
What was the explanation for the Harper Fragment landing meters behind the
limo? (And its disappearance?) [deletia]
The explanation is simple: You bought into the world of conspiracy bunkum.
It didn't land behind the limo. Please quote the document or the testimony
that puts the Harper fragment behind the position of the limo at the time
of the head shot.
Bet you can't. You will only be able to quote secondary (conspiracy)
sources that make that claim. But they are lying to their readers.
Please show this fragment moving backward in any film or photograph. You
cannot. The Zapruder film shows all the matter ejected from the
President's head (including the Harper Fragment) moving forward of the
President at frame 313. You yourself can even see the Harper fragment (if
you choose to look) making multiple rotations in the sun in that frame at
approximately the one o'clock position to the President's head. Indeed,
the lead core of the bullet itself went on to strike the south curb of
Main Street near the position of James Tague and striking James Tague
himself. Both the curb and the bullet are forward of the position of the
limo at the time of the head shot.
https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z313.jpg
The autopsy doctors conducted an autopsy on the evening of the President's
assassination and they determined the President suffered two bullet
wounds, both inflicted from above and behind.
You have no evidence - none! - of a bullet striking the President and
driving any bone backward.
Josiah Thompson published the document that exposes this "behind the limo"
claim as a canard back in 1967 in SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS. See page 301 of
that book.
Here we are 53 years later and you're so far down the rabbit hole you
don't even realize your conspiracy sources have been lying about this for
more than five decades.
Hank
piotr....@gmail.com
2020-09-05 01:12:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
If you want to get the right answer, you have to have the facts. Not the
conspiracy myths.
Hank
This has been answered scores of times, your [qualifier removed] keeps on
removing my posts.

I have something better than facts.

"CNN: This is an Apple"


You want factoids?

Go to Jeff "but, but, but Johannides, but, but, Johannides, but, but, but
Johannides" Morley.

You want The Truth, the incontrovertible, undeniable, definite, scientific
(first since 1963), accepted by The People solution?

Go to JFK Numbers

So... What was that university(ies) that you trust again? John Da Eagle is
the only one that has replied (said: "MIT", have the e-mail), but recanted
later.

-Ramon
JFK Numbers

ps: If The Top Dogs quit, defeated and humiliated what makes you think
that you will do better?
Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
2020-09-06 02:38:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
If you want to get the right answer, you have to have the facts. Not the
conspiracy myths.
Hank
This has been answered scores of times, your [qualifier removed] keeps on
removing my posts.
I haven't seen your response. It appears you've adopted the Tony Marsh
excuse for when you don't have an answer except "I was wrong." Saying the
moderator deleted your post is like the kid showing up at school saying
"The dog ate my homework."
Post by ***@gmail.com
I have something better than facts.
Hilarious. You have conspiracy mythology. That loses out to facts every
day of the week.
Post by ***@gmail.com
"CNN: This is an Apple"
http://youtu.be/Is29IiIGJEc
Hilarious. You don't realize that you're the one shouting "it's a
BANANA!!!" The skull fragment was found south of the limo. Where is south
of the limo, Ramone? Look at a map of Dealey Plaza and tell us.
Post by ***@gmail.com
You want factoids?
No. The fact is as I quoted to you.

==== Quote ====
Here, let me now quote from the original FBI source document, CD-5, as
reproduced in an appendix of _SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS_. I purchased this
book in 1967 and have know the fact about where the skull fragment was
found for 53 years. You need to learn it, and learn that conspiracy
authors are not being honest with their readers.

== QUOTE ==
WILLIAM ALLEN HARPER. a student at Texas Christian University. Ft. Worth,
Texas, but who lives in Dallas... was taking photographs during the
afternoon of November 23, 1963, approximately 5:30PM in the area just
south of the spot where President KENNEDY was assassinated and had found a
piece of bone. The bone was located approximately 25 feet south of the
spot where President Kennedy was shot...
== UNQUOTE ==
==== unquote ====

The piece of skull wasn't found where you claimed it was.
Post by ***@gmail.com
Go to Jeff "but, but, but Johannides, but, but, Johannides, but, but, but
Johannides" Morley.
This is a distraction. I don't know if Morley has chattering teeth, but
this red herring (change of subject) is clearly not a response to where
the skull bone of JFK was found.
Post by ***@gmail.com
You want The Truth, the incontrovertible, undeniable, definite, scientific
(first since 1963), accepted by The People solution?
Go to JFK Numbers
You've been quoting conspiracy mythology. You need to stick to the facts
if you want to get anywhere. GIGO (Garbage in, Garbage out) is a
well-known computer acronym. It means the conclusions is only as good as
the data you feed it. You are feeding in garbage with the begged question
"What was the explanation for the Harper Fragment landing meters behind
the limo?" because the Harper fragment did not land behind the limo at
all. It was found to the left front of the limo. That's the fact, which
you have yet to admit.
Post by ***@gmail.com
So... What was that university(ies) that you trust again? John Da Eagle is
the only one that has replied (said: "MIT", have the e-mail), but recanted
later.
Another distraction. Where was the skull bone found, Ramone? That's the
issue I raised, and that's the issue you're ducking. Where's the evidence
it was found behind the limo? You have only secondary (conspiracy) sources
for that claim. The original source document, the FBI interview of Harper,
says the bone fragment was found south of the limo.

Look at a map. Where is south in Dealey Plaza?
Post by ***@gmail.com
-Ramon
JFK Numbers
ps: If The Top Dogs quit, defeated and humiliated what makes you think
that you will do better?
Begged question. You commit almost as many logical fallacies as Tony Marsh.

Just answer the question you've been avoiding with your left brain: Where
was the skull fragment found relative to the limo?

Hank
Mark
2020-09-07 14:04:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
If you want to get the right answer, you have to have the facts. Not the
conspiracy myths.
Hank
This has been answered scores of times, your [qualifier removed] keeps on
removing my posts.
I haven't seen your response. It appears you've adopted the Tony Marsh
excuse for when you don't have an answer except "I was wrong." Saying the
moderator deleted your post is like the kid showing up at school saying
"The dog ate my homework."
Post by ***@gmail.com
I have something better than facts.
Hilarious. You have conspiracy mythology. That loses out to facts every
day of the week.
Post by ***@gmail.com
"CNN: This is an Apple"
http://youtu.be/Is29IiIGJEc
Hilarious. You don't realize that you're the one shouting "it's a
BANANA!!!" The skull fragment was found south of the limo. Where is south
of the limo, Ramone? Look at a map of Dealey Plaza and tell us.
Post by ***@gmail.com
You want factoids?
No. The fact is as I quoted to you.
==== Quote ====
Here, let me now quote from the original FBI source document, CD-5, as
reproduced in an appendix of _SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS_. I purchased this
book in 1967 and have know the fact about where the skull fragment was
found for 53 years. You need to learn it, and learn that conspiracy
authors are not being honest with their readers.
== QUOTE ==
WILLIAM ALLEN HARPER. a student at Texas Christian University. Ft. Worth,
Texas, but who lives in Dallas... was taking photographs during the
afternoon of November 23, 1963, approximately 5:30PM in the area just
south of the spot where President KENNEDY was assassinated and had found a
piece of bone. The bone was located approximately 25 feet south of the
spot where President Kennedy was shot...
== UNQUOTE ==
==== unquote ====
The piece of skull wasn't found where you claimed it was.
Post by ***@gmail.com
Go to Jeff "but, but, but Johannides, but, but, Johannides, but, but, but
Johannides" Morley.
This is a distraction. I don't know if Morley has chattering teeth, but
this red herring (change of subject) is clearly not a response to where
the skull bone of JFK was found.
Post by ***@gmail.com
You want The Truth, the incontrovertible, undeniable, definite, scientific
(first since 1963), accepted by The People solution?
Go to JFK Numbers
You've been quoting conspiracy mythology. You need to stick to the facts
if you want to get anywhere. GIGO (Garbage in, Garbage out) is a
well-known computer acronym. It means the conclusions is only as good as
the data you feed it. You are feeding in garbage with the begged question
"What was the explanation for the Harper Fragment landing meters behind
the limo?" because the Harper fragment did not land behind the limo at
all. It was found to the left front of the limo. That's the fact, which
you have yet to admit.
Post by ***@gmail.com
So... What was that university(ies) that you trust again? John Da Eagle is
the only one that has replied (said: "MIT", have the e-mail), but recanted
later.
Another distraction. Where was the skull bone found, Ramone? That's the
issue I raised, and that's the issue you're ducking. Where's the evidence
it was found behind the limo? You have only secondary (conspiracy) sources
for that claim. The original source document, the FBI interview of Harper,
says the bone fragment was found south of the limo.
Look at a map. Where is south in Dealey Plaza?
Post by ***@gmail.com
-Ramon
JFK Numbers
ps: If The Top Dogs quit, defeated and humiliated what makes you think
that you will do better?
Begged question. You commit almost as many logical fallacies as Tony Marsh.
Just answer the question you've been avoiding with your left brain: Where
was the skull fragment found relative to the limo?
Hank
What's your answer, Ramon? The Harper fragment flew to the front of the
limo. What do you have to present to us that it instead went behind the
limo? A cite? Some conjecture? Anything? Mark
Piotr Mancini
2020-09-09 00:03:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark
What's your answer, Ramon? The Harper fragment flew to the front of the
limo. What do you have to present to us that it instead went behind the
limo? A cite? Some conjecture? Anything? Mark
Withdrawn. Retracted. Profuse apologies. Will pay penance and beg for
atonement in my next confession.

You see, my RIGHT BRAIN HEMISPHERE IS WACKO LOCO, DRUNK. Smokes mushrooms.
Travels to Bangladesh following the example left by The Fab Four and Steve
Jobs. Has a wild imagination, keeps on making up stuff. Steals my keyboard
in my sleep.

With that out of the way, can we move on?

So, Mark: Which university do you trust to work in the Numbers of JFK?

Has SCIENCE been used in this case since 1963? During the computer era?
Any examples? Any FILES WE CAN SEE?

What is your position about:

(1) The fact that the most famous and controversial X-rays since Roentgen
are abandoned, decaying? Should they be rescued? By whom? There is only
one proposal. The National Archives have given me/you/us the green light,
a point of contact (Eugene Morris) has been designated. Do you support it?
Have a counter-proposal?

"Chief Wecht Is Afraid of the CAPA Board"


(2) The donation of the laser point cloud files, the most
advanced/accurate of the Plaza ever taken. They were given to me/you/us by
my mentor Mike McCormick, who risked his job.

Loading Image...

What should I do with them? After all, they are THE ONLY WAY to solve the
SBT/MBT forever. Should I remove them from my/your/our website, return
them to the Kochs?

Based on that invaluable precious jewel, I am working on this:

RMT for Dummies:
http://www.dealey-plaza.org/this-government-as-promised/SBT-MBT-Tools/RMT-for-Dummies/

RMT for Wizards:
http://www.dealey-plaza.org/this-government-as-promised/SBT-MBT-Tools/Robertson_Measurement_Tool

Do you want a copy of that application? After all: IT IS YOURS. I decided
to write it FOR YOU. You can take it to any university or leading school
of 3D design, you can copy EVERY ONE of my files, make a clone site,
remove what you want, add what you want, invite Dale Myers (his peers,
professors, whoever), create a PPV site -with secret files- in which it is
proven, categorically that was Lee, Alone, 3 shots.

(3a) How about your position about "The Three Most Important Statements
Made in the PBS Nova Program"?



Should those 3 guys ever answer?

(3b) And doctor Michael Baden? He makes statements identical to those made
by DiMao and McAdams:

"The autopsy was poorly done"


Does president Kennedy deserve a better, proper autopsy?

(4) Can you offer/venture an explanation for the fact that any forensic
case in history that involves ballistics of cranium and cerebrum
can/should be submitted to the proper science and technology:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLof8jFzqbDPJIiEREC5GipycH-M6OsSP3

with ONE notable exception? Did the Kochs run out of money? Were they the
victims of a fraud?



Finally: Why exactly should I answer your question since EVERY ONE OF YOU
(from the very top, here and elsewhere) has refused to answer my simple
questions along the years? The extraterrestrial arrived to the only
possible, inescapable conclusion almost immediately.

Kindly show respect to the readers -and ultimately yourself- addressing
those questions.

-Ramon's LEFT Brain Hemisphere
JFK Numbers

"Ballistics has nothing to do with Engineering"
Big Dog, 21 Mar 2020 15:00:56 -0400
Mark
2020-09-09 15:11:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Piotr Mancini
What's your answer, Ramon? The Harper fragment flew to the front of the
limo. What do you have to present to us that it instead went behind the
limo? A cite? Some conjecture? Anything? Mark
Withdrawn. Retracted. Profuse apologies. Will pay penance and beg for
atonement in my next confession.
You see, my RIGHT BRAIN HEMISPHERE IS WACKO LOCO, DRUNK. Smokes mushrooms.
Travels to Bangladesh following the example left by The Fab Four and Steve
Jobs. Has a wild imagination, keeps on making up stuff. Steals my keyboard
in my sleep.
With that out of the way, can we move on?
So, Mark: Which university do you trust to work in the Numbers of JFK?
Has SCIENCE been used in this case since 1963? During the computer era?
Any examples? Any FILES WE CAN SEE?
(1) The fact that the most famous and controversial X-rays since Roentgen
are abandoned, decaying? Should they be rescued? By whom? There is only
one proposal. The National Archives have given me/you/us the green light,
a point of contact (Eugene Morris) has been designated. Do you support it?
Have a counter-proposal?
"Chief Wecht Is Afraid of the CAPA Board"
http://youtu.be/ZXrlpAy4Ios
(2) The donation of the laser point cloud files, the most
advanced/accurate of the Plaza ever taken. They were given to me/you/us by
my mentor Mike McCormick, who risked his job.
http://www.jfknumbers.org/~ramon/jfk/My-Dear-Colleague-and-Mentor-Mike-McCormick.jpg
What should I do with them? After all, they are THE ONLY WAY to solve the
SBT/MBT forever. Should I remove them from my/your/our website, return
them to the Kochs?
http://www.dealey-plaza.org/this-government-as-promised/SBT-MBT-Tools/RMT-for-Dummies/
http://www.dealey-plaza.org/this-government-as-promised/SBT-MBT-Tools/Robertson_Measurement_Tool
Do you want a copy of that application? After all: IT IS YOURS. I decided
to write it FOR YOU. You can take it to any university or leading school
of 3D design, you can copy EVERY ONE of my files, make a clone site,
remove what you want, add what you want, invite Dale Myers (his peers,
professors, whoever), create a PPV site -with secret files- in which it is
proven, categorically that was Lee, Alone, 3 shots.
(3a) How about your position about "The Three Most Important Statements
Made in the PBS Nova Program"?
http://youtu.be/gDuxpACB4C4
Should those 3 guys ever answer?
(3b) And doctor Michael Baden? He makes statements identical to those made
"The autopsy was poorly done"
http://youtu.be/aOaDL6h2dcU
Does president Kennedy deserve a better, proper autopsy?
(4) Can you offer/venture an explanation for the fact that any forensic
case in history that involves ballistics of cranium and cerebrum
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLof8jFzqbDPJIiEREC5GipycH-M6OsSP3
with ONE notable exception? Did the Kochs run out of money? Were they the
victims of a fraud?
http://youtu.be/pqNmuvchZpc
Finally: Why exactly should I answer your question since EVERY ONE OF YOU
(from the very top, here and elsewhere) has refused to answer my simple
questions along the years? The extraterrestrial arrived to the only
possible, inescapable conclusion almost immediately.
Kindly show respect to the readers -and ultimately yourself- addressing
those questions.
-Ramon's LEFT Brain Hemisphere
JFK Numbers
"Ballistics has nothing to do with Engineering"
Big Dog, 21 Mar 2020 15:00:56 -0400
So you're back to begging this newsgroup for replies.

After what's been said to you before, you just can't accept "no," can you?

Kindly show some respect for yourself and your fellow posters and stop the
repetitious groveling. Mark
Piotr Mancini
2020-09-09 21:07:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark
So you're back to begging this newsgroup for replies.
After what's been said to you before, you just can't accept "no," can you?
Kindly show some respect for yourself and your fellow posters and stop the
repetitious groveling. Mark
As usual you people (LNs and supporters of the guy in the WH who better be
packing) have everything backwards.

I am begging, imploring, repetitiously groveling for LACK OF REPLIES.

You guys are doing great! Keep up the shitty work!

-Ramon
JFK Numbers

ps: Hello, PBS! NPR! (others that I am not at liberty to disclose at the
moment, other that I have no idea are listening) Did you get this?? Mark
here is a TOP contributor!

pps: And your preferred university would be ...?
John Corbett
2020-09-09 21:07:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Piotr Mancini
"Ballistics has nothing to do with Engineering"
Big Dog, 21 Mar 2020 15:00:56 -0400
Since you were baffled by this statement when I first wrote it, I am not
surprised that you still don't get it. Here is how Merriam-Webster defines
the two terms:


ballistics noun, plural in form but singular or plural in construction

bal·​lis·​tics | \ bə-ˈli-stiks \

Definition of ballistics
1a: the science of the motion of projectiles in flight
b: the flight characteristics of a projectile
2a: the study of the processes within a firearm as it is fired
b: the firing characteristics of a firearm or cartridge


engineering noun

en·​gi·​neer·​ing | \ ˌen-jə-ˈnir-iŋ \

Definition of engineering
1: the activities or function of an engineer
2a: the application of science and mathematics by which the properties of
matter and the sources of energy in nature are made useful to people
b: the design and manufacture of complex products
software engineering
3: calculated manipulation or direction (as of behavior)

Do you see any common ground between these two fields?
Anthony Marsh
2020-09-09 00:03:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
If you want to get the right answer, you have to have the facts. Not the
conspiracy myths.
Hank
This has been answered scores of times, your [qualifier removed] keeps on
removing my posts.
I haven't seen your response. It appears you've adopted the Tony Marsh
excuse for when you don't have an answer except "I was wrong." Saying the
moderator deleted your post is like the kid showing up at school saying
"The dog ate my homework."
Post by ***@gmail.com
I have something better than facts.
Hilarious. You have conspiracy mythology. That loses out to facts every
day of the week.
Evidence.
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by ***@gmail.com
"CNN: This is an Apple"
http://youtu.be/Is29IiIGJEc
Hilarious. You don't realize that you're the one shouting "it's a
BANANA!!!" The skull fragment was found south of the limo. Where is south
of the limo, Ramone? Look at a map of Dealey Plaza and tell us.
I always pointed out that erroneous report.
Don't try to saddle me with all the mistakes of th winesses.
Maybe you forgot what I said a million times:
Never rely on witnesses.
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by ***@gmail.com
You want factoids?
No. The fact is as I quoted to you.
==== Quote ====
Here, let me now quote from the original FBI source document, CD-5, as
reproduced in an appendix of _SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS_. I purchased this
book in 1967 and have know the fact about where the skull fragment was
found for 53 years. You need to learn it, and learn that conspiracy
authors are not being honest with their readers.
Sometimes they had to guess because the government was withholding so
much evidence.
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
== QUOTE ==
WILLIAM ALLEN HARPER. a student at Texas Christian University. Ft. Worth,
Texas, but who lives in Dallas... was taking photographs during the
afternoon of November 23, 1963, approximately 5:30PM in the area just
south of the spot where President KENNEDY was assassinated and had found a
piece of bone. The bone was located approximately 25 feet south of the
spot where President Kennedy was shot...
== UNQUOTE ==
==== unquote ====
The piece of skull wasn't found where you claimed it was.
Post by ***@gmail.com
Go to Jeff "but, but, but Johannides, but, but, Johannides, but, but, but
Johannides" Morley.
This is a distraction. I don't know if Morley has chattering teeth, but
this red herring (change of subject) is clearly not a response to where
the skull bone of JFK was found.
Post by ***@gmail.com
You want The Truth, the incontrovertible, undeniable, definite, scientific
(first since 1963), accepted by The People solution?
Go to JFK Numbers
You've been quoting conspiracy mythology. You need to stick to the facts
if you want to get anywhere. GIGO (Garbage in, Garbage out) is a
well-known computer acronym. It means the conclusions is only as good as
the data you feed it. You are feeding in garbage with the begged question
"What was the explanation for the Harper Fragment landing meters behind
the limo?" because the Harper fragment did not land behind the limo at
all. It was found to the left front of the limo. That's the fact, which
you have yet to admit.
Post by ***@gmail.com
So... What was that university(ies) that you trust again? John Da Eagle is
the only one that has replied (said: "MIT", have the e-mail), but recanted
later.
Another distraction. Where was the skull bone found, Ramone? That's the
issue I raised, and that's the issue you're ducking. Where's the evidence
it was found behind the limo? You have only secondary (conspiracy) sources
for that claim. The original source document, the FBI interview of Harper,
says the bone fragment was found south of the limo.
Look at a map. Where is south in Dealey Plaza?
Post by ***@gmail.com
-Ramon
JFK Numbers
ps: If The Top Dogs quit, defeated and humiliated what makes you think
that you will do better?
Begged question. You commit almost as many logical fallacies as Tony Marsh.
Just answer the question you've been avoiding with your left brain: Where
was the skull fragment found relative to the limo?
Hank
Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
2020-09-13 01:18:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
If you want to get the right answer, you have to have the facts. Not the
conspiracy myths.
Hank
This has been answered scores of times, your [qualifier removed] keeps on
removing my posts.
I haven't seen your response. It appears you've adopted the Tony Marsh
excuse for when you don't have an answer except "I was wrong." Saying the
moderator deleted your post is like the kid showing up at school saying
"The dog ate my homework."
Post by ***@gmail.com
I have something better than facts.
Hilarious. You have conspiracy mythology. That loses out to facts every
day of the week.
Evidence.
Yes. I have the actual evidence, like the FBI report of what Harper told
them. You have false claims by conspiracy mongers.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
"CNN: This is an Apple"
http://youtu.be/Is29IiIGJEc
Hilarious. You don't realize that you're the one shouting "it's a
BANANA!!!" The skull fragment was found south of the limo. Where is south
of the limo, Ramone? Look at a map of Dealey Plaza and tell us.
I always pointed out that erroneous report.
"That erroneous report" is the false claim by conspiracy mongers who moved
the bone from its reported located by Harper from south of the President
at the time of the head shot (the left-front) to behind the limo at the
time of the head shot.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Don't try to saddle me with all the mistakes of th winesses.
The witness in this case wasn't mistaken. He told where he found the skull
fragment, and it's noted in the FBI report --"The bone was located
approximately 25 feet south of the spot where President Kennedy was shot."

The conspiracy mongers have been lying about the location of the found
fragment for decades.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Never rely on witnesses.
The witness knows where he found it. People who read conspiracy books and
rely on those books to tell them the truth? Not so much. Apparently
neither you nor Ramon bothered to check the actual location of the found
skull bone as reported by the witness, and instead relied on what was
reported by conspiracy mongers like Robert Groden and Josiah Thompson.

Thompson pretends the skull bone was found behind the limo, claiming (SIX
SECONDS IN DALLAS, Page 101 & 108):
"The exact location where Harper found the bone is somewhat ambigusous.
...

What all those reports seem to describe is a massive impact that exploded
outward through the back of the skull driving bone and brain tissue with
it. We know where this mass of bone and tissue went. It splattered
motorcycle officers Martin and Hargis, the biggest piece of skull
continuing on a left and downward course until it came to rest only inches
from the south (or left) curb of Elm Street. ** A smaller piece of skull
broken off the occipital bone at the rear of the skull was thrown even
farther to the left onto the grass verge where it was found the following
day by Billy Harper.** "

Conspiracy mongers have been lying about this since 1967. Don't you think
it's time conspiracy theorists like yourself refer to the actual document
where the bone fragment is placed 25 feet to the south (left-front) of the
President when he was shot?

Those conspiracy authors that fooled you and the others who read their
books are laughing about this all the way to the bank.

Harper even marked a map for an assassination researcher, Millicant Cranor:
Loading Image...

The location Harper found it is well forward of the limo at the time of
the head shot. More than likely, the large piece of bone seen spiralling
upward in frame 313 at approximately the one o'clock position from JFK's
head is the Harper fragment. There is no piece of bone being ejected
backward visible in that frame.

https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z313.jpg
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
You want factoids?
No. The fact is as I quoted to you.
==== Quote ====
Here, let me now quote from the original FBI source document, CD-5, as
reproduced in an appendix of _SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS_. I purchased this
book in 1967 and have know the fact about where the skull fragment was
found for 53 years. You need to learn it, and learn that conspiracy
authors are not being honest with their readers.
Sometimes they had to guess because the government was withholding so
much evidence.
Too generic to respond to. The Harper fragment was found as quoted below.
If you have any doubts about where south is in relation to the President's
Post by Anthony Marsh
== QUOTE ==
WILLIAM ALLEN HARPER. a student at Texas Christian University. Ft. Worth,
Texas, but who lives in Dallas... was taking photographs during the
afternoon of November 23, 1963, approximately 5:30PM in the area just
south of the spot where President KENNEDY was assassinated and had found a
piece of bone. The bone was located approximately 25 feet south of the
spot where President Kennedy was shot...
== UNQUOTE ==
==== unquote ====
The piece of skull wasn't found where you claimed it was.
Post by ***@gmail.com
Go to Jeff "but, but, but Johannides, but, but, Johannides, but, but, but
Johannides" Morley.
This is a distraction. I don't know if Morley has chattering teeth, but
this red herring (change of subject) is clearly not a response to where
the skull bone of JFK was found.
Post by ***@gmail.com
You want The Truth, the incontrovertible, undeniable, definite, scientific
(first since 1963), accepted by The People solution?
Go to JFK Numbers
You've been quoting conspiracy mythology. You need to stick to the facts
if you want to get anywhere. GIGO (Garbage in, Garbage out) is a
well-known computer acronym. It means the conclusions is only as good as
the data you feed it. You are feeding in garbage with the begged question
"What was the explanation for the Harper Fragment landing meters behind
the limo?" because the Harper fragment did not land behind the limo at
all. It was found to the left front of the limo. That's the fact, which
you have yet to admit.
Ramon owes us an explanation and a retraction.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
So... What was that university(ies) that you trust again? John Da Eagle is
the only one that has replied (said: "MIT", have the e-mail), but recanted
later.
Another distraction. Where was the skull bone found, Ramone? That's the
issue I raised, and that's the issue you're ducking. Where's the evidence
it was found behind the limo? You have only secondary (conspiracy) sources
for that claim. The original source document, the FBI interview of Harper,
says the bone fragment was found south of the limo.
Look at a map. Where is south in Dealey Plaza?
Post by ***@gmail.com
-Ramon
JFK Numbers
ps: If The Top Dogs quit, defeated and humiliated what makes you think
that you will do better?
Begged question. You commit almost as many logical fallacies as Tony Marsh.
Just answer the question you've been avoiding with your left brain: Where
was the skull fragment found relative to the limo?
Ramon? Where was the fragment found? Behind the limo, or to the left front
of the limo? Does the fact that your conspiracy source isn't telling you
the truth here cause you any doubts about what else that conspiracy source
isn't being honest about? Why or why not?


As always, when CTs are caught claiming stuff in contradiction to the
facts, they go mute.
Anthony Marsh
2020-09-14 03:12:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
If you want to get the right answer, you have to have the facts. Not the
conspiracy myths.
Hank
This has been answered scores of times, your [qualifier removed] keeps on
removing my posts.
I haven't seen your response. It appears you've adopted the Tony Marsh
excuse for when you don't have an answer except "I was wrong." Saying the
moderator deleted your post is like the kid showing up at school saying
"The dog ate my homework."
Post by ***@gmail.com
I have something better than facts.
Hilarious. You have conspiracy mythology. That loses out to facts every
day of the week.
Evidence.
Yes. I have the actual evidence, like the FBI report of what Harper told
them. You have false claims by conspiracy mongers.
I am not talking about claims. I am talking about physical evidence.
You know nothing. All you do is attack, never learn.
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
"CNN: This is an Apple"
http://youtu.be/Is29IiIGJEc
Hilarious. You don't realize that you're the one shouting "it's a
BANANA!!!" The skull fragment was found south of the limo. Where is south
of the limo, Ramone? Look at a map of Dealey Plaza and tell us.
I always pointed out that erroneous report.
"That erroneous report" is the false claim by conspiracy mongers who moved
the bone from its reported located by Harper from south of the President
at the time of the head shot (the left-front) to behind the limo at the
time of the head shot.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Don't try to saddle me with all the mistakes of th winesses.
The witness in this case wasn't mistaken. He told where he found the skull
fragment, and it's noted in the FBI report --"The bone was located
approximately 25 feet south of the spot where President Kennedy was shot."
And I never disputed hhat so don't complain to me.
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
The conspiracy mongers have been lying about the location of the found
fragment for decades.
No. Some.
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Never rely on witnesses.
The witness knows where he found it. People who read conspiracy books and
rely on those books to tell them the truth? Not so much. Apparently
No one ahould rely on conspiracy books or WC defender books.
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
neither you nor Ramon bothered to check the actual location of the found
Another false charge. I read the original documents.
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
skull bone as reported by the witness, and instead relied on what was
reported by conspiracy mongers like Robert Groden and Josiah Thompson.
Never,
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Thompson pretends the skull bone was found behind the limo, claiming (SIX
"The exact location where Harper found the bone is somewhat ambigusous.
...
That's not the only mistake he made.
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
What all those reports seem to describe is a massive impact that exploded
outward through the back of the skull driving bone and brain tissue with
it. We know where this mass of bone and tissue went. It splattered
motorcycle officers Martin and Hargis, the biggest piece of skull
continuing on a left and downward course until it came to rest only inches
from the south (or left) curb of Elm Street. ** A smaller piece of skull
broken off the occipital bone at the rear of the skull was thrown even
farther to the left onto the grass verge where it was found the following
day by Billy Harper.** "
Conspiracy mongers have been lying about this since 1967. Don't you think
it's time conspiracy theorists like yourself refer to the actual document
where the bone fragment is placed 25 feet to the south (left-front) of the
President when he was shot?
Those conspiracy authors that fooled you and the others who read their
books are laughing about this all the way to the bank.
No one folled me. I researched it for myself.
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/images/harpermap.gif
The location Harper found it is well forward of the limo at the time of
the head shot. More than likely, the large piece of bone seen spiralling
upward in frame 313 at approximately the one o'clock position from JFK's
head is the Harper fragment. There is no piece of bone being ejected
backward visible in that frame.
https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z313.jpg
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
You want factoids?
No. The fact is as I quoted to you.
==== Quote ====
Here, let me now quote from the original FBI source document, CD-5, as
reproduced in an appendix of _SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS_. I purchased this
book in 1967 and have know the fact about where the skull fragment was
found for 53 years. You need to learn it, and learn that conspiracy
authors are not being honest with their readers.
Sometimes they had to guess because the government was withholding so
much evidence.
Too generic to respond to. The Harper fragment was found as quoted below.
If you have any doubts about where south is in relation to the President's
Post by Anthony Marsh
== QUOTE ==
WILLIAM ALLEN HARPER. a student at Texas Christian University. Ft. Worth,
Texas, but who lives in Dallas... was taking photographs during the
afternoon of November 23, 1963, approximately 5:30PM in the area just
south of the spot where President KENNEDY was assassinated and had found a
piece of bone. The bone was located approximately 25 feet south of the
spot where President Kennedy was shot...
== UNQUOTE ==
==== unquote ====
The piece of skull wasn't found where you claimed it was.
Post by ***@gmail.com
Go to Jeff "but, but, but Johannides, but, but, Johannides, but, but, but
Johannides" Morley.
This is a distraction. I don't know if Morley has chattering teeth, but
this red herring (change of subject) is clearly not a response to where
the skull bone of JFK was found.
Post by ***@gmail.com
You want The Truth, the incontrovertible, undeniable, definite, scientific
(first since 1963), accepted by The People solution?
Go to JFK Numbers
You've been quoting conspiracy mythology. You need to stick to the facts
if you want to get anywhere. GIGO (Garbage in, Garbage out) is a
well-known computer acronym. It means the conclusions is only as good as
the data you feed it. You are feeding in garbage with the begged question
"What was the explanation for the Harper Fragment landing meters behind
the limo?" because the Harper fragment did not land behind the limo at
all. It was found to the left front of the limo. That's the fact, which
you have yet to admit.
Ramon owes us an explanation and a retraction.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
So... What was that university(ies) that you trust again? John Da Eagle is
the only one that has replied (said: "MIT", have the e-mail), but recanted
later.
Another distraction. Where was the skull bone found, Ramone? That's the
issue I raised, and that's the issue you're ducking. Where's the evidence
it was found behind the limo? You have only secondary (conspiracy) sources
for that claim. The original source document, the FBI interview of Harper,
says the bone fragment was found south of the limo.
Look at a map. Where is south in Dealey Plaza?
Post by ***@gmail.com
-Ramon
JFK Numbers
ps: If The Top Dogs quit, defeated and humiliated what makes you think
that you will do better?
Begged question. You commit almost as many logical fallacies as Tony Marsh.
Just answer the question you've been avoiding with your left brain: Where
was the skull fragment found relative to the limo?
Ramon? Where was the fragment found? Behind the limo, or to the left front
of the limo? Does the fact that your conspiracy source isn't telling you
the truth here cause you any doubts about what else that conspiracy source
isn't being honest about? Why or why not?
As always, when CTs are caught claiming stuff in contradiction to the
facts, they go mute.
As usual you misrepresent.
Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
2020-09-14 13:59:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
If you want to get the right answer, you have to have the facts. Not the
conspiracy myths.
Hank
This has been answered scores of times, your [qualifier removed] keeps on
removing my posts.
I haven't seen your response. It appears you've adopted the Tony Marsh
excuse for when you don't have an answer except "I was wrong." Saying the
moderator deleted your post is like the kid showing up at school saying
"The dog ate my homework."
Post by ***@gmail.com
I have something better than facts.
Hilarious. You have conspiracy mythology. That loses out to facts every
day of the week.
Evidence.
Yes. I have the actual evidence, like the FBI report of what Harper told
them. You have false claims by conspiracy mongers.
I am not talking about claims. I am talking about physical evidence.
You know nothing. All you do is attack, never learn.
The physical evidence is the skull bone. That piece of skull bone was
found *south* of the President when he was shot. *South* puts the bone
forward and to the left of the President (look at a map of Dealey Plaza).
Ramon claimed, from his conspiracy sources, that the skull fragment was
found behind the limo. That is false. I'm seeking a retraction or
clarification from Ramon.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
"CNN: This is an Apple"
http://youtu.be/Is29IiIGJEc
Hilarious. You don't realize that you're the one shouting "it's a
BANANA!!!" The skull fragment was found south of the limo. Where is south
of the limo, Ramone? Look at a map of Dealey Plaza and tell us.
I always pointed out that erroneous report.
"That erroneous report" is the false claim by conspiracy mongers who moved
the bone from its reported located by Harper from south of the President
at the time of the head shot (the left-front) to behind the limo at the
time of the head shot.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Don't try to saddle me with all the mistakes of th winesses.
What? It's the lie of the conspiracy authors (that the skull fragment was
found behind the limo) that I'm talking about. You're introducing a straw
man argument.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
The witness in this case wasn't mistaken. He told where he found the skull
fragment, and it's noted in the FBI report --"The bone was located
approximately 25 feet south of the spot where President Kennedy was shot."
And I never disputed hhat so don't complain to me.
So you agree with me the skull fragment found to the left-front of the
President head when he was shot? Tell Ramon he was wrongto say it was
found behind the President then.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
The conspiracy mongers have been lying about the location of the found
fragment for decades.
No. Some.
Can you cite any conspiracy author that said the skull fragment was found
forward of the President? That's the problem with the incestuous nature of
the conspiracy authors citations... they either repeat other conspiracy
authors conclusions or don't discuss the issue. I cannot think of one
conspiracy author who actually put the Harper fragment in the correct
location ... can you?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Never rely on witnesses.
The witness knows where he found it. People who read conspiracy books and
rely on those books to tell them the truth? Not so much. Apparently
No one ahould rely on conspiracy books or WC defender books.
Sound advice for Ramon. Apparently Ramon was relying on conspiracy books
to tell him the truth.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
neither you nor Ramon bothered to check the actual location of the found
Another false charge. I read the original documents.
Yet you here you are arguing with me, not Ramon, about the location of the
skull fragment.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
skull bone as reported by the witness, and instead relied on what was
reported by conspiracy mongers like Robert Groden and Josiah Thompson.
Never,
Never? Ramon certainly does. You repeat a lot of the same nonsense
expressed in the early conspiracy books as fact, although it's been
exposed as nonsense.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Thompson pretends the skull bone was found behind the limo, claiming (SIX
"The exact location where Harper found the bone is somewhat ambigusous.
...
That's not the only mistake he made.
I wouldn't go there. Is it a *mistake* to deliberately say something
false? He also claimed, in SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS, in support of the idea
that bone was blown out the back of the back, that a reflection of the
retaining wall on the limo was a white mass moving backward over the
trunk. He suggested that was bone or brain matter. It was a reflection.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
What all those reports seem to describe is a massive impact that exploded
outward through the back of the skull driving bone and brain tissue with
it. We know where this mass of bone and tissue went. It splattered
motorcycle officers Martin and Hargis, the biggest piece of skull
continuing on a left and downward course until it came to rest only inches
from the south (or left) curb of Elm Street. ** A smaller piece of skull
broken off the occipital bone at the rear of the skull was thrown even
farther to the left onto the grass verge where it was found the following
day by Billy Harper.** "
Conspiracy mongers have been lying about this since 1967. Don't you think
it's time conspiracy theorists like yourself refer to the actual document
where the bone fragment is placed 25 feet to the south (left-front) of the
President when he was shot?
Those conspiracy authors that fooled you and the others who read their
books are laughing about this all the way to the bank.
No one folled me. I researched it for myself.
And yet you still cannot admit the correct location, instead talking about
the "the mistakes of th winesses" and claiming "I always pointed out that
erroneous report" (talking about the source FBI document).
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/images/harpermap.gif
The location Harper found it is well forward of the limo at the time of
the head shot. More than likely, the large piece of bone seen spiralling
upward in frame 313 at approximately the one o'clock position from JFK's
head is the Harper fragment. There is no piece of bone being ejected
backward visible in that frame.
https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z313.jpg
Hmmm. For some reason you didn't discuss the map of Dealey Plaza Harper
actually marked. It's curious that Ramon won't acknowledge it either.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
You want factoids?
No. The fact is as I quoted to you.
==== Quote ====
Here, let me now quote from the original FBI source document, CD-5, as
reproduced in an appendix of _SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS_. I purchased this
book in 1967 and have know the fact about where the skull fragment was
found for 53 years. You need to learn it, and learn that conspiracy
authors are not being honest with their readers.
Sometimes they had to guess because the government was withholding so
much evidence.
Too generic to respond to. The Harper fragment was found as quoted below.
If you have any doubts about where south is in relation to the President's
And of course, you ignored that too.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
== QUOTE ==
WILLIAM ALLEN HARPER. a student at Texas Christian University. Ft. Worth,
Texas, but who lives in Dallas... was taking photographs during the
afternoon of November 23, 1963, approximately 5:30PM in the area just
south of the spot where President KENNEDY was assassinated and had found a
piece of bone. The bone was located approximately 25 feet south of the
spot where President Kennedy was shot...
== UNQUOTE ==
==== unquote ====
The piece of skull wasn't found where you claimed it was.
Post by ***@gmail.com
Go to Jeff "but, but, but Johannides, but, but, Johannides, but, but, but
Johannides" Morley.
This is a distraction. I don't know if Morley has chattering teeth, but
this red herring (change of subject) is clearly not a response to where
the skull bone of JFK was found.
Post by ***@gmail.com
You want The Truth, the incontrovertible, undeniable, definite, scientific
(first since 1963), accepted by The People solution?
Go to JFK Numbers
You've been quoting conspiracy mythology. You need to stick to the facts
if you want to get anywhere. GIGO (Garbage in, Garbage out) is a
well-known computer acronym. It means the conclusions is only as good as
the data you feed it. You are feeding in garbage with the begged question
"What was the explanation for the Harper Fragment landing meters behind
the limo?" because the Harper fragment did not land behind the limo at
all. It was found to the left front of the limo. That's the fact, which
you have yet to admit.
Ramon owes us an explanation and a retraction.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
So... What was that university(ies) that you trust again? John Da Eagle is
the only one that has replied (said: "MIT", have the e-mail), but recanted
later.
Another distraction. Where was the skull bone found, Ramone? That's the
issue I raised, and that's the issue you're ducking. Where's the evidence
it was found behind the limo? You have only secondary (conspiracy) sources
for that claim. The original source document, the FBI interview of Harper,
says the bone fragment was found south of the limo.
Look at a map. Where is south in Dealey Plaza?
Post by ***@gmail.com
-Ramon
JFK Numbers
ps: If The Top Dogs quit, defeated and humiliated what makes you think
that you will do better?
Begged question. You commit almost as many logical fallacies as Tony Marsh.
Just answer the question you've been avoiding with your left brain: Where
was the skull fragment found relative to the limo?
Ramon? Where was the fragment found? Behind the limo, or to the left front
of the limo? Does the fact that your conspiracy source isn't telling you
the truth here cause you any doubts about what else that conspiracy source
isn't being honest about? Why or why not?
As always, when CTs are caught claiming stuff in contradiction to the
facts, they go mute.
As usual you misrepresent.
Well, you haven't gone mute, but Ramon is clearly now refusing to discuss
this and what the distortion of the evidence by conspiracy authors
indicates about their honesty and trustworthiness. And as Ramon was
initially convinced of his conclusion by conspiracy authors, what's that
say about Ramon's conclusions? I'm trying to get him to discuss this, but
he's avoiding it entirely and talking about other stuff. He's gone mute on
the discussion I'm trying to have with him and keeps changing the subject.
You too won't admit the conspiracy authors have been misrepresenting the
found location of the Harper skull fragment since 1967. Instead you
suggest it was the "the mistakes of th winesses" and claiming you
"...always pointed out that erroneous report" (talking about the source
FBI document), suggesting the original source document was in error and
that Billy Harper was mistaken about where he found the skull fragment.

Hank
Steve Barber
2020-09-15 14:13:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
If you want to get the right answer, you have to have the facts. Not the
conspiracy myths.
Hank
This has been answered scores of times, your [qualifier removed] keeps on
removing my posts.
I haven't seen your response. It appears you've adopted the Tony Marsh
excuse for when you don't have an answer except "I was wrong." Saying the
moderator deleted your post is like the kid showing up at school saying
"The dog ate my homework."
Post by ***@gmail.com
I have something better than facts.
Hilarious. You have conspiracy mythology. That loses out to facts every
day of the week.
Evidence.
Yes. I have the actual evidence, like the FBI report of what Harper told
them. You have false claims by conspiracy mongers.
I am not talking about claims. I am talking about physical evidence.
You know nothing. All you do is attack, never learn.
The physical evidence is the skull bone. That piece of skull bone was
found *south* of the President when he was shot. *South* puts the bone
forward and to the left of the President (look at a map of Dealey Plaza).
Ramon claimed, from his conspiracy sources, that the skull fragment was
found behind the limo. That is false. I'm seeking a retraction or
clarification from Ramon.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
"CNN: This is an Apple"
http://youtu.be/Is29IiIGJEc
Hilarious. You don't realize that you're the one shouting "it's a
BANANA!!!" The skull fragment was found south of the limo. Where is south
of the limo, Ramone? Look at a map of Dealey Plaza and tell us.
I always pointed out that erroneous report.
"That erroneous report" is the false claim by conspiracy mongers who moved
the bone from its reported located by Harper from south of the President
at the time of the head shot (the left-front) to behind the limo at the
time of the head shot.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Don't try to saddle me with all the mistakes of th winesses.
What? It's the lie of the conspiracy authors (that the skull fragment was
found behind the limo) that I'm talking about. You're introducing a straw
man argument.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
The witness in this case wasn't mistaken. He told where he found the skull
fragment, and it's noted in the FBI report --"The bone was located
approximately 25 feet south of the spot where President Kennedy was shot."
And I never disputed hhat so don't complain to me.
So you agree with me the skull fragment found to the left-front of the
President head when he was shot? Tell Ramon he was wrongto say it was
found behind the President then.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
The conspiracy mongers have been lying about the location of the found
fragment for decades.
No. Some.
Can you cite any conspiracy author that said the skull fragment was found
forward of the President? That's the problem with the incestuous nature of
the conspiracy authors citations... they either repeat other conspiracy
authors conclusions or don't discuss the issue. I cannot think of one
conspiracy author who actually put the Harper fragment in the correct
location ... can you?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Never rely on witnesses.
The witness knows where he found it. People who read conspiracy books and
rely on those books to tell them the truth? Not so much. Apparently
No one ahould rely on conspiracy books or WC defender books.
Sound advice for Ramon. Apparently Ramon was relying on conspiracy books
to tell him the truth.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
neither you nor Ramon bothered to check the actual location of the found
Another false charge. I read the original documents.
Yet you here you are arguing with me, not Ramon, about the location of the
skull fragment.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
skull bone as reported by the witness, and instead relied on what was
reported by conspiracy mongers like Robert Groden and Josiah Thompson.
Never,
Never? Ramon certainly does. You repeat a lot of the same nonsense
expressed in the early conspiracy books as fact, although it's been
exposed as nonsense.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Thompson pretends the skull bone was found behind the limo, claiming (SIX
"The exact location where Harper found the bone is somewhat ambigusous.
...
That's not the only mistake he made.
I wouldn't go there. Is it a *mistake* to deliberately say something
false? He also claimed, in SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS, in support of the idea
that bone was blown out the back of the back, that a reflection of the
retaining wall on the limo was a white mass moving backward over the
trunk. He suggested that was bone or brain matter. It was a reflection.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
What all those reports seem to describe is a massive impact that exploded
outward through the back of the skull driving bone and brain tissue with
it. We know where this mass of bone and tissue went. It splattered
motorcycle officers Martin and Hargis, the biggest piece of skull
continuing on a left and downward course until it came to rest only inches
from the south (or left) curb of Elm Street. ** A smaller piece of skull
broken off the occipital bone at the rear of the skull was thrown even
farther to the left onto the grass verge where it was found the following
day by Billy Harper.** "
Conspiracy mongers have been lying about this since 1967. Don't you think
it's time conspiracy theorists like yourself refer to the actual document
where the bone fragment is placed 25 feet to the south (left-front) of the
President when he was shot?
Those conspiracy authors that fooled you and the others who read their
books are laughing about this all the way to the bank.
No one folled me. I researched it for myself.
And yet you still cannot admit the correct location, instead talking about
the "the mistakes of th winesses" and claiming "I always pointed out that
erroneous report" (talking about the source FBI document).
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/images/harpermap.gif
The location Harper found it is well forward of the limo at the time of
the head shot. More than likely, the large piece of bone seen spiralling
upward in frame 313 at approximately the one o'clock position from JFK's
head is the Harper fragment. There is no piece of bone being ejected
backward visible in that frame.
https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z313.jpg
Hmmm. For some reason you didn't discuss the map of Dealey Plaza Harper
actually marked. It's curious that Ramon won't acknowledge it either.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
You want factoids?
No. The fact is as I quoted to you.
==== Quote ====
Here, let me now quote from the original FBI source document, CD-5, as
reproduced in an appendix of _SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS_. I purchased this
book in 1967 and have know the fact about where the skull fragment was
found for 53 years. You need to learn it, and learn that conspiracy
authors are not being honest with their readers.
Sometimes they had to guess because the government was withholding so
much evidence.
Too generic to respond to. The Harper fragment was found as quoted below.
If you have any doubts about where south is in relation to the President's
And of course, you ignored that too.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
== QUOTE ==
WILLIAM ALLEN HARPER. a student at Texas Christian University. Ft. Worth,
Texas, but who lives in Dallas... was taking photographs during the
afternoon of November 23, 1963, approximately 5:30PM in the area just
south of the spot where President KENNEDY was assassinated and had found a
piece of bone. The bone was located approximately 25 feet south of the
spot where President Kennedy was shot...
== UNQUOTE ==
==== unquote ====
The piece of skull wasn't found where you claimed it was.
Post by ***@gmail.com
Go to Jeff "but, but, but Johannides, but, but, Johannides, but, but, but
Johannides" Morley.
This is a distraction. I don't know if Morley has chattering teeth, but
this red herring (change of subject) is clearly not a response to where
the skull bone of JFK was found.
Post by ***@gmail.com
You want The Truth, the incontrovertible, undeniable, definite, scientific
(first since 1963), accepted by The People solution?
Go to JFK Numbers
You've been quoting conspiracy mythology. You need to stick to the facts
if you want to get anywhere. GIGO (Garbage in, Garbage out) is a
well-known computer acronym. It means the conclusions is only as good as
the data you feed it. You are feeding in garbage with the begged question
"What was the explanation for the Harper Fragment landing meters behind
the limo?" because the Harper fragment did not land behind the limo at
all. It was found to the left front of the limo. That's the fact, which
you have yet to admit.
Ramon owes us an explanation and a retraction.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
So... What was that university(ies) that you trust again? John Da Eagle is
the only one that has replied (said: "MIT", have the e-mail), but recanted
later.
Another distraction. Where was the skull bone found, Ramone? That's the
issue I raised, and that's the issue you're ducking. Where's the evidence
it was found behind the limo? You have only secondary (conspiracy) sources
for that claim. The original source document, the FBI interview of Harper,
says the bone fragment was found south of the limo.
Look at a map. Where is south in Dealey Plaza?
Post by ***@gmail.com
-Ramon
JFK Numbers
ps: If The Top Dogs quit, defeated and humiliated what makes you think
that you will do better?
Begged question. You commit almost as many logical fallacies as Tony Marsh.
Just answer the question you've been avoiding with your left brain: Where
was the skull fragment found relative to the limo?
Ramon? Where was the fragment found? Behind the limo, or to the left front
of the limo? Does the fact that your conspiracy source isn't telling you
the truth here cause you any doubts about what else that conspiracy source
isn't being honest about? Why or why not?
As always, when CTs are caught claiming stuff in contradiction to the
facts, they go mute.
As usual you misrepresent.
Well, you haven't gone mute, but Ramon is clearly now refusing to discuss
this and what the distortion of the evidence by conspiracy authors
indicates about their honesty and trustworthiness. And as Ramon was
initially convinced of his conclusion by conspiracy authors, what's that
say about Ramon's conclusions? I'm trying to get him to discuss this, but
he's avoiding it entirely and talking about other stuff. He's gone mute on
the discussion I'm trying to have with him and keeps changing the subject.
You too won't admit the conspiracy authors have been misrepresenting the
found location of the Harper skull fragment since 1967. Instead you
suggest it was the "the mistakes of th winesses" and claiming you
"...always pointed out that erroneous report" (talking about the source
FBI document), suggesting the original source document was in error and
that Billy Harper was mistaken about where he found the skull fragment.
Hank
Hank, let's not forget the skull fragment that I mentioned was discovered
by a David Burrough's (misspelled as "Burris"), also ahead of the
limousine. He turned it over the the authorities. There is a black and
white professional photograph taken from down by the underpass, facing
east, with a star and a line drawn on the actual photo of where Burrough's
found the skull frag., and on the back of the photograph it gives the
location in inches and feet from the curb to the area in the grass where
it was found. This is not far the manhole on the south side of Elm
Street.
Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
2020-09-16 16:41:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Barber
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
If you want to get the right answer, you have to have the facts. Not the
conspiracy myths.
Hank
This has been answered scores of times, your [qualifier removed] keeps on
removing my posts.
I haven't seen your response. It appears you've adopted the Tony Marsh
excuse for when you don't have an answer except "I was wrong." Saying the
moderator deleted your post is like the kid showing up at school saying
"The dog ate my homework."
Post by ***@gmail.com
I have something better than facts.
Hilarious. You have conspiracy mythology. That loses out to facts every
day of the week.
Evidence.
Yes. I have the actual evidence, like the FBI report of what Harper told
them. You have false claims by conspiracy mongers.
I am not talking about claims. I am talking about physical evidence.
You know nothing. All you do is attack, never learn.
The physical evidence is the skull bone. That piece of skull bone was
found *south* of the President when he was shot. *South* puts the bone
forward and to the left of the President (look at a map of Dealey Plaza).
Ramon claimed, from his conspiracy sources, that the skull fragment was
found behind the limo. That is false. I'm seeking a retraction or
clarification from Ramon.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
"CNN: This is an Apple"
http://youtu.be/Is29IiIGJEc
Hilarious. You don't realize that you're the one shouting "it's a
BANANA!!!" The skull fragment was found south of the limo. Where is south
of the limo, Ramone? Look at a map of Dealey Plaza and tell us.
I always pointed out that erroneous report.
"That erroneous report" is the false claim by conspiracy mongers who moved
the bone from its reported located by Harper from south of the President
at the time of the head shot (the left-front) to behind the limo at the
time of the head shot.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Don't try to saddle me with all the mistakes of th winesses.
What? It's the lie of the conspiracy authors (that the skull fragment was
found behind the limo) that I'm talking about. You're introducing a straw
man argument.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
The witness in this case wasn't mistaken. He told where he found the skull
fragment, and it's noted in the FBI report --"The bone was located
approximately 25 feet south of the spot where President Kennedy was shot."
And I never disputed hhat so don't complain to me.
So you agree with me the skull fragment found to the left-front of the
President head when he was shot? Tell Ramon he was wrongto say it was
found behind the President then.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
The conspiracy mongers have been lying about the location of the found
fragment for decades.
No. Some.
Can you cite any conspiracy author that said the skull fragment was found
forward of the President? That's the problem with the incestuous nature of
the conspiracy authors citations... they either repeat other conspiracy
authors conclusions or don't discuss the issue. I cannot think of one
conspiracy author who actually put the Harper fragment in the correct
location ... can you?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Never rely on witnesses.
The witness knows where he found it. People who read conspiracy books and
rely on those books to tell them the truth? Not so much. Apparently
No one ahould rely on conspiracy books or WC defender books.
Sound advice for Ramon. Apparently Ramon was relying on conspiracy books
to tell him the truth.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
neither you nor Ramon bothered to check the actual location of the found
Another false charge. I read the original documents.
Yet you here you are arguing with me, not Ramon, about the location of the
skull fragment.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
skull bone as reported by the witness, and instead relied on what was
reported by conspiracy mongers like Robert Groden and Josiah Thompson.
Never,
Never? Ramon certainly does. You repeat a lot of the same nonsense
expressed in the early conspiracy books as fact, although it's been
exposed as nonsense.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Thompson pretends the skull bone was found behind the limo, claiming (SIX
"The exact location where Harper found the bone is somewhat ambigusous.
...
That's not the only mistake he made.
I wouldn't go there. Is it a *mistake* to deliberately say something
false? He also claimed, in SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS, in support of the idea
that bone was blown out the back of the back, that a reflection of the
retaining wall on the limo was a white mass moving backward over the
trunk. He suggested that was bone or brain matter. It was a reflection.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
What all those reports seem to describe is a massive impact that exploded
outward through the back of the skull driving bone and brain tissue with
it. We know where this mass of bone and tissue went. It splattered
motorcycle officers Martin and Hargis, the biggest piece of skull
continuing on a left and downward course until it came to rest only inches
from the south (or left) curb of Elm Street. ** A smaller piece of skull
broken off the occipital bone at the rear of the skull was thrown even
farther to the left onto the grass verge where it was found the following
day by Billy Harper.** "
Conspiracy mongers have been lying about this since 1967. Don't you think
it's time conspiracy theorists like yourself refer to the actual document
where the bone fragment is placed 25 feet to the south (left-front) of the
President when he was shot?
Those conspiracy authors that fooled you and the others who read their
books are laughing about this all the way to the bank.
No one folled me. I researched it for myself.
And yet you still cannot admit the correct location, instead talking about
the "the mistakes of th winesses" and claiming "I always pointed out that
erroneous report" (talking about the source FBI document).
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/images/harpermap.gif
The location Harper found it is well forward of the limo at the time of
the head shot. More than likely, the large piece of bone seen spiralling
upward in frame 313 at approximately the one o'clock position from JFK's
head is the Harper fragment. There is no piece of bone being ejected
backward visible in that frame.
https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z313.jpg
Hmmm. For some reason you didn't discuss the map of Dealey Plaza Harper
actually marked. It's curious that Ramon won't acknowledge it either.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
You want factoids?
No. The fact is as I quoted to you.
==== Quote ====
Here, let me now quote from the original FBI source document, CD-5, as
reproduced in an appendix of _SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS_. I purchased this
book in 1967 and have know the fact about where the skull fragment was
found for 53 years. You need to learn it, and learn that conspiracy
authors are not being honest with their readers.
Sometimes they had to guess because the government was withholding so
much evidence.
Too generic to respond to. The Harper fragment was found as quoted below.
If you have any doubts about where south is in relation to the President's
And of course, you ignored that too.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
== QUOTE ==
WILLIAM ALLEN HARPER. a student at Texas Christian University. Ft. Worth,
Texas, but who lives in Dallas... was taking photographs during the
afternoon of November 23, 1963, approximately 5:30PM in the area just
south of the spot where President KENNEDY was assassinated and had found a
piece of bone. The bone was located approximately 25 feet south of the
spot where President Kennedy was shot...
== UNQUOTE ==
==== unquote ====
The piece of skull wasn't found where you claimed it was.
Post by ***@gmail.com
Go to Jeff "but, but, but Johannides, but, but, Johannides, but, but, but
Johannides" Morley.
This is a distraction. I don't know if Morley has chattering teeth, but
this red herring (change of subject) is clearly not a response to where
the skull bone of JFK was found.
Post by ***@gmail.com
You want The Truth, the incontrovertible, undeniable, definite, scientific
(first since 1963), accepted by The People solution?
Go to JFK Numbers
You've been quoting conspiracy mythology. You need to stick to the facts
if you want to get anywhere. GIGO (Garbage in, Garbage out) is a
well-known computer acronym. It means the conclusions is only as good as
the data you feed it. You are feeding in garbage with the begged question
"What was the explanation for the Harper Fragment landing meters behind
the limo?" because the Harper fragment did not land behind the limo at
all. It was found to the left front of the limo. That's the fact, which
you have yet to admit.
Ramon owes us an explanation and a retraction.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
So... What was that university(ies) that you trust again? John Da Eagle is
the only one that has replied (said: "MIT", have the e-mail), but recanted
later.
Another distraction. Where was the skull bone found, Ramone? That's the
issue I raised, and that's the issue you're ducking. Where's the evidence
it was found behind the limo? You have only secondary (conspiracy) sources
for that claim. The original source document, the FBI interview of Harper,
says the bone fragment was found south of the limo.
Look at a map. Where is south in Dealey Plaza?
Post by ***@gmail.com
-Ramon
JFK Numbers
ps: If The Top Dogs quit, defeated and humiliated what makes you think
that you will do better?
Begged question. You commit almost as many logical fallacies as Tony Marsh.
Just answer the question you've been avoiding with your left brain: Where
was the skull fragment found relative to the limo?
Ramon? Where was the fragment found? Behind the limo, or to the left front
of the limo? Does the fact that your conspiracy source isn't telling you
the truth here cause you any doubts about what else that conspiracy source
isn't being honest about? Why or why not?
As always, when CTs are caught claiming stuff in contradiction to the
facts, they go mute.
As usual you misrepresent.
Well, you haven't gone mute, but Ramon is clearly now refusing to discuss
this and what the distortion of the evidence by conspiracy authors
indicates about their honesty and trustworthiness. And as Ramon was
initially convinced of his conclusion by conspiracy authors, what's that
say about Ramon's conclusions? I'm trying to get him to discuss this, but
he's avoiding it entirely and talking about other stuff. He's gone mute on
the discussion I'm trying to have with him and keeps changing the subject.
You too won't admit the conspiracy authors have been misrepresenting the
found location of the Harper skull fragment since 1967. Instead you
suggest it was the "the mistakes of th winesses" and claiming you
"...always pointed out that erroneous report" (talking about the source
FBI document), suggesting the original source document was in error and
that Billy Harper was mistaken about where he found the skull fragment.
Hank
Hank, let's not forget the skull fragment that I mentioned was discovered
by a David Burrough's (misspelled as "Burris"), also ahead of the
limousine. He turned it over the the authorities. There is a black and
white professional photograph taken from down by the underpass, facing
east, with a star and a line drawn on the actual photo of where Burrough's
found the skull frag., and on the back of the photograph it gives the
location in inches and feet from the curb to the area in the grass where
it was found. This is not far the manhole on the south side of Elm
Street.
Citation for the photo and David Burroughs statement?

Hank
Anthony Marsh
2020-09-17 03:10:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Steve Barber
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
If you want to get the right answer, you have to have the facts. Not the
conspiracy myths.
Hank
This has been answered scores of times, your [qualifier removed] keeps on
removing my posts.
I haven't seen your response. It appears you've adopted the Tony Marsh
excuse for when you don't have an answer except "I was wrong." Saying the
moderator deleted your post is like the kid showing up at school saying
"The dog ate my homework."
Post by ***@gmail.com
I have something better than facts.
Hilarious. You have conspiracy mythology. That loses out to facts every
day of the week.
Evidence.
Yes. I have the actual evidence, like the FBI report of what Harper told
them. You have false claims by conspiracy mongers.
I am not talking about claims. I am talking about physical evidence.
You know nothing. All you do is attack, never learn.
The physical evidence is the skull bone. That piece of skull bone was
found *south* of the President when he was shot. *South* puts the bone
forward and to the left of the President (look at a map of Dealey Plaza).
Ramon claimed, from his conspiracy sources, that the skull fragment was
found behind the limo. That is false. I'm seeking a retraction or
clarification from Ramon.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
"CNN: This is an Apple"
http://youtu.be/Is29IiIGJEc
Hilarious. You don't realize that you're the one shouting "it's a
BANANA!!!" The skull fragment was found south of the limo. Where is south
of the limo, Ramone? Look at a map of Dealey Plaza and tell us.
I always pointed out that erroneous report.
"That erroneous report" is the false claim by conspiracy mongers who moved
the bone from its reported located by Harper from south of the President
at the time of the head shot (the left-front) to behind the limo at the
time of the head shot.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Don't try to saddle me with all the mistakes of th winesses.
What? It's the lie of the conspiracy authors (that the skull fragment was
found behind the limo) that I'm talking about. You're introducing a straw
man argument.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
The witness in this case wasn't mistaken. He told where he found the skull
fragment, and it's noted in the FBI report --"The bone was located
approximately 25 feet south of the spot where President Kennedy was shot."
And I never disputed hhat so don't complain to me.
So you agree with me the skull fragment found to the left-front of the
President head when he was shot? Tell Ramon he was wrongto say it was
found behind the President then.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
The conspiracy mongers have been lying about the location of the found
fragment for decades.
No. Some.
Can you cite any conspiracy author that said the skull fragment was found
forward of the President? That's the problem with the incestuous nature of
the conspiracy authors citations... they either repeat other conspiracy
authors conclusions or don't discuss the issue. I cannot think of one
conspiracy author who actually put the Harper fragment in the correct
location ... can you?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Never rely on witnesses.
The witness knows where he found it. People who read conspiracy books and
rely on those books to tell them the truth? Not so much. Apparently
No one ahould rely on conspiracy books or WC defender books.
Sound advice for Ramon. Apparently Ramon was relying on conspiracy books
to tell him the truth.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
neither you nor Ramon bothered to check the actual location of the found
Another false charge. I read the original documents.
Yet you here you are arguing with me, not Ramon, about the location of the
skull fragment.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
skull bone as reported by the witness, and instead relied on what was
reported by conspiracy mongers like Robert Groden and Josiah Thompson.
Never,
Never? Ramon certainly does. You repeat a lot of the same nonsense
expressed in the early conspiracy books as fact, although it's been
exposed as nonsense.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Thompson pretends the skull bone was found behind the limo, claiming (SIX
"The exact location where Harper found the bone is somewhat ambigusous.
...
That's not the only mistake he made.
I wouldn't go there. Is it a *mistake* to deliberately say something
false? He also claimed, in SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS, in support of the idea
that bone was blown out the back of the back, that a reflection of the
retaining wall on the limo was a white mass moving backward over the
trunk. He suggested that was bone or brain matter. It was a reflection.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
What all those reports seem to describe is a massive impact that exploded
outward through the back of the skull driving bone and brain tissue with
it. We know where this mass of bone and tissue went. It splattered
motorcycle officers Martin and Hargis, the biggest piece of skull
continuing on a left and downward course until it came to rest only inches
from the south (or left) curb of Elm Street. ** A smaller piece of skull
broken off the occipital bone at the rear of the skull was thrown even
farther to the left onto the grass verge where it was found the following
day by Billy Harper.** "
Conspiracy mongers have been lying about this since 1967. Don't you think
it's time conspiracy theorists like yourself refer to the actual document
where the bone fragment is placed 25 feet to the south (left-front) of the
President when he was shot?
Those conspiracy authors that fooled you and the others who read their
books are laughing about this all the way to the bank.
No one folled me. I researched it for myself.
And yet you still cannot admit the correct location, instead talking about
the "the mistakes of th winesses" and claiming "I always pointed out that
erroneous report" (talking about the source FBI document).
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/images/harpermap.gif
The location Harper found it is well forward of the limo at the time of
the head shot. More than likely, the large piece of bone seen spiralling
upward in frame 313 at approximately the one o'clock position from JFK's
head is the Harper fragment. There is no piece of bone being ejected
backward visible in that frame.
https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z313.jpg
Hmmm. For some reason you didn't discuss the map of Dealey Plaza Harper
actually marked. It's curious that Ramon won't acknowledge it either.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
You want factoids?
No. The fact is as I quoted to you.
==== Quote ====
Here, let me now quote from the original FBI source document, CD-5, as
reproduced in an appendix of _SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS_. I purchased this
book in 1967 and have know the fact about where the skull fragment was
found for 53 years. You need to learn it, and learn that conspiracy
authors are not being honest with their readers.
Sometimes they had to guess because the government was withholding so
much evidence.
Too generic to respond to. The Harper fragment was found as quoted below.
If you have any doubts about where south is in relation to the President's
And of course, you ignored that too.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
== QUOTE ==
WILLIAM ALLEN HARPER. a student at Texas Christian University. Ft. Worth,
Texas, but who lives in Dallas... was taking photographs during the
afternoon of November 23, 1963, approximately 5:30PM in the area just
south of the spot where President KENNEDY was assassinated and had found a
piece of bone. The bone was located approximately 25 feet south of the
spot where President Kennedy was shot...
== UNQUOTE ==
==== unquote ====
The piece of skull wasn't found where you claimed it was.
Post by ***@gmail.com
Go to Jeff "but, but, but Johannides, but, but, Johannides, but, but, but
Johannides" Morley.
This is a distraction. I don't know if Morley has chattering teeth, but
this red herring (change of subject) is clearly not a response to where
the skull bone of JFK was found.
Post by ***@gmail.com
You want The Truth, the incontrovertible, undeniable, definite, scientific
(first since 1963), accepted by The People solution?
Go to JFK Numbers
You've been quoting conspiracy mythology. You need to stick to the facts
if you want to get anywhere. GIGO (Garbage in, Garbage out) is a
well-known computer acronym. It means the conclusions is only as good as
the data you feed it. You are feeding in garbage with the begged question
"What was the explanation for the Harper Fragment landing meters behind
the limo?" because the Harper fragment did not land behind the limo at
all. It was found to the left front of the limo. That's the fact, which
you have yet to admit.
Ramon owes us an explanation and a retraction.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
So... What was that university(ies) that you trust again? John Da Eagle is
the only one that has replied (said: "MIT", have the e-mail), but recanted
later.
Another distraction. Where was the skull bone found, Ramone? That's the
issue I raised, and that's the issue you're ducking. Where's the evidence
it was found behind the limo? You have only secondary (conspiracy) sources
for that claim. The original source document, the FBI interview of Harper,
says the bone fragment was found south of the limo.
Look at a map. Where is south in Dealey Plaza?
Post by ***@gmail.com
-Ramon
JFK Numbers
ps: If The Top Dogs quit, defeated and humiliated what makes you think
that you will do better?
Begged question. You commit almost as many logical fallacies as Tony Marsh.
Just answer the question you've been avoiding with your left brain: Where
was the skull fragment found relative to the limo?
Ramon? Where was the fragment found? Behind the limo, or to the left front
of the limo? Does the fact that your conspiracy source isn't telling you
the truth here cause you any doubts about what else that conspiracy source
isn't being honest about? Why or why not?
As always, when CTs are caught claiming stuff in contradiction to the
facts, they go mute.
As usual you misrepresent.
Well, you haven't gone mute, but Ramon is clearly now refusing to discuss
this and what the distortion of the evidence by conspiracy authors
indicates about their honesty and trustworthiness. And as Ramon was
initially convinced of his conclusion by conspiracy authors, what's that
say about Ramon's conclusions? I'm trying to get him to discuss this, but
he's avoiding it entirely and talking about other stuff. He's gone mute on
the discussion I'm trying to have with him and keeps changing the subject.
You too won't admit the conspiracy authors have been misrepresenting the
found location of the Harper skull fragment since 1967. Instead you
suggest it was the "the mistakes of th winesses" and claiming you
"...always pointed out that erroneous report" (talking about the source
FBI document), suggesting the original source document was in error and
that Billy Harper was mistaken about where he found the skull fragment.
Hank
Hank, let's not forget the skull fragment that I mentioned was discovered
by a David Burrough's (misspelled as "Burris"), also ahead of the
limousine. He turned it over the the authorities. There is a black and
white professional photograph taken from down by the underpass, facing
east, with a star and a line drawn on the actual photo of where Burrough's
found the skull frag., and on the back of the photograph it gives the
location in inches and feet from the curb to the area in the grass where
it was found. This is not far the manhole on the south side of Elm
Street.
Citation for the photo and David Burroughs statement?
Hank
That's not polite - to ask a WC defender to produce evidence.
Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
2020-09-17 20:17:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Steve Barber
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
If you want to get the right answer, you have to have the facts. Not the
conspiracy myths.
Hank
This has been answered scores of times, your [qualifier removed] keeps on
removing my posts.
I haven't seen your response. It appears you've adopted the Tony Marsh
excuse for when you don't have an answer except "I was wrong." Saying the
moderator deleted your post is like the kid showing up at school saying
"The dog ate my homework."
Post by ***@gmail.com
I have something better than facts.
Hilarious. You have conspiracy mythology. That loses out to facts every
day of the week.
Evidence.
Yes. I have the actual evidence, like the FBI report of what Harper told
them. You have false claims by conspiracy mongers.
I am not talking about claims. I am talking about physical evidence.
You know nothing. All you do is attack, never learn.
The physical evidence is the skull bone. That piece of skull bone was
found *south* of the President when he was shot. *South* puts the bone
forward and to the left of the President (look at a map of Dealey Plaza).
Ramon claimed, from his conspiracy sources, that the skull fragment was
found behind the limo. That is false. I'm seeking a retraction or
clarification from Ramon.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
"CNN: This is an Apple"
http://youtu.be/Is29IiIGJEc
Hilarious. You don't realize that you're the one shouting "it's a
BANANA!!!" The skull fragment was found south of the limo. Where is south
of the limo, Ramone? Look at a map of Dealey Plaza and tell us.
I always pointed out that erroneous report.
"That erroneous report" is the false claim by conspiracy mongers who moved
the bone from its reported located by Harper from south of the President
at the time of the head shot (the left-front) to behind the limo at the
time of the head shot.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Don't try to saddle me with all the mistakes of th winesses.
What? It's the lie of the conspiracy authors (that the skull fragment was
found behind the limo) that I'm talking about. You're introducing a straw
man argument.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
The witness in this case wasn't mistaken. He told where he found the skull
fragment, and it's noted in the FBI report --"The bone was located
approximately 25 feet south of the spot where President Kennedy was shot."
And I never disputed hhat so don't complain to me.
So you agree with me the skull fragment found to the left-front of the
President head when he was shot? Tell Ramon he was wrongto say it was
found behind the President then.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
The conspiracy mongers have been lying about the location of the found
fragment for decades.
No. Some.
Can you cite any conspiracy author that said the skull fragment was found
forward of the President? That's the problem with the incestuous nature of
the conspiracy authors citations... they either repeat other conspiracy
authors conclusions or don't discuss the issue. I cannot think of one
conspiracy author who actually put the Harper fragment in the correct
location ... can you?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Never rely on witnesses.
The witness knows where he found it. People who read conspiracy books and
rely on those books to tell them the truth? Not so much. Apparently
No one ahould rely on conspiracy books or WC defender books.
Sound advice for Ramon. Apparently Ramon was relying on conspiracy books
to tell him the truth.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
neither you nor Ramon bothered to check the actual location of the found
Another false charge. I read the original documents.
Yet you here you are arguing with me, not Ramon, about the location of the
skull fragment.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
skull bone as reported by the witness, and instead relied on what was
reported by conspiracy mongers like Robert Groden and Josiah Thompson.
Never,
Never? Ramon certainly does. You repeat a lot of the same nonsense
expressed in the early conspiracy books as fact, although it's been
exposed as nonsense.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Thompson pretends the skull bone was found behind the limo, claiming (SIX
"The exact location where Harper found the bone is somewhat ambigusous.
...
That's not the only mistake he made.
I wouldn't go there. Is it a *mistake* to deliberately say something
false? He also claimed, in SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS, in support of the idea
that bone was blown out the back of the back, that a reflection of the
retaining wall on the limo was a white mass moving backward over the
trunk. He suggested that was bone or brain matter. It was a reflection.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
What all those reports seem to describe is a massive impact that exploded
outward through the back of the skull driving bone and brain tissue with
it. We know where this mass of bone and tissue went. It splattered
motorcycle officers Martin and Hargis, the biggest piece of skull
continuing on a left and downward course until it came to rest only inches
from the south (or left) curb of Elm Street. ** A smaller piece of skull
broken off the occipital bone at the rear of the skull was thrown even
farther to the left onto the grass verge where it was found the following
day by Billy Harper.** "
Conspiracy mongers have been lying about this since 1967. Don't you think
it's time conspiracy theorists like yourself refer to the actual document
where the bone fragment is placed 25 feet to the south (left-front) of the
President when he was shot?
Those conspiracy authors that fooled you and the others who read their
books are laughing about this all the way to the bank.
No one folled me. I researched it for myself.
And yet you still cannot admit the correct location, instead talking about
the "the mistakes of th winesses" and claiming "I always pointed out that
erroneous report" (talking about the source FBI document).
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/images/harpermap.gif
The location Harper found it is well forward of the limo at the time of
the head shot. More than likely, the large piece of bone seen spiralling
upward in frame 313 at approximately the one o'clock position from JFK's
head is the Harper fragment. There is no piece of bone being ejected
backward visible in that frame.
https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z313.jpg
Hmmm. For some reason you didn't discuss the map of Dealey Plaza Harper
actually marked. It's curious that Ramon won't acknowledge it either.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
You want factoids?
No. The fact is as I quoted to you.
==== Quote ====
Here, let me now quote from the original FBI source document, CD-5, as
reproduced in an appendix of _SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS_. I purchased this
book in 1967 and have know the fact about where the skull fragment was
found for 53 years. You need to learn it, and learn that conspiracy
authors are not being honest with their readers.
Sometimes they had to guess because the government was withholding so
much evidence.
Too generic to respond to. The Harper fragment was found as quoted below.
If you have any doubts about where south is in relation to the President's
And of course, you ignored that too.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
== QUOTE ==
WILLIAM ALLEN HARPER. a student at Texas Christian University. Ft. Worth,
Texas, but who lives in Dallas... was taking photographs during the
afternoon of November 23, 1963, approximately 5:30PM in the area just
south of the spot where President KENNEDY was assassinated and had found a
piece of bone. The bone was located approximately 25 feet south of the
spot where President Kennedy was shot...
== UNQUOTE ==
==== unquote ====
The piece of skull wasn't found where you claimed it was.
Post by ***@gmail.com
Go to Jeff "but, but, but Johannides, but, but, Johannides, but, but, but
Johannides" Morley.
This is a distraction. I don't know if Morley has chattering teeth, but
this red herring (change of subject) is clearly not a response to where
the skull bone of JFK was found.
Post by ***@gmail.com
You want The Truth, the incontrovertible, undeniable, definite, scientific
(first since 1963), accepted by The People solution?
Go to JFK Numbers
You've been quoting conspiracy mythology. You need to stick to the facts
if you want to get anywhere. GIGO (Garbage in, Garbage out) is a
well-known computer acronym. It means the conclusions is only as good as
the data you feed it. You are feeding in garbage with the begged question
"What was the explanation for the Harper Fragment landing meters behind
the limo?" because the Harper fragment did not land behind the limo at
all. It was found to the left front of the limo. That's the fact, which
you have yet to admit.
Ramon owes us an explanation and a retraction.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
So... What was that university(ies) that you trust again? John Da Eagle is
the only one that has replied (said: "MIT", have the e-mail), but recanted
later.
Another distraction. Where was the skull bone found, Ramone? That's the
issue I raised, and that's the issue you're ducking. Where's the evidence
it was found behind the limo? You have only secondary (conspiracy) sources
for that claim. The original source document, the FBI interview of Harper,
says the bone fragment was found south of the limo.
Look at a map. Where is south in Dealey Plaza?
Post by ***@gmail.com
-Ramon
JFK Numbers
ps: If The Top Dogs quit, defeated and humiliated what makes you think
that you will do better?
Begged question. You commit almost as many logical fallacies as Tony Marsh.
Just answer the question you've been avoiding with your left brain: Where
was the skull fragment found relative to the limo?
Ramon? Where was the fragment found? Behind the limo, or to the left front
of the limo? Does the fact that your conspiracy source isn't telling you
the truth here cause you any doubts about what else that conspiracy source
isn't being honest about? Why or why not?
As always, when CTs are caught claiming stuff in contradiction to the
facts, they go mute.
As usual you misrepresent.
Well, you haven't gone mute, but Ramon is clearly now refusing to discuss
this and what the distortion of the evidence by conspiracy authors
indicates about their honesty and trustworthiness. And as Ramon was
initially convinced of his conclusion by conspiracy authors, what's that
say about Ramon's conclusions? I'm trying to get him to discuss this, but
he's avoiding it entirely and talking about other stuff. He's gone mute on
the discussion I'm trying to have with him and keeps changing the subject.
You too won't admit the conspiracy authors have been misrepresenting the
found location of the Harper skull fragment since 1967. Instead you
suggest it was the "the mistakes of th winesses" and claiming you
"...always pointed out that erroneous report" (talking about the source
FBI document), suggesting the original source document was in error and
that Billy Harper was mistaken about where he found the skull fragment.
Hank
Hank, let's not forget the skull fragment that I mentioned was discovered
by a David Burrough's (misspelled as "Burris"), also ahead of the
limousine. He turned it over the the authorities. There is a black and
white professional photograph taken from down by the underpass, facing
east, with a star and a line drawn on the actual photo of where Burrough's
found the skull frag., and on the back of the photograph it gives the
location in inches and feet from the curb to the area in the grass where
it was found. This is not far the manhole on the south side of Elm
Street.
Citation for the photo and David Burroughs statement?
Hank
That's not polite - to ask a WC defender to produce evidence.
I'm a "WC Defender" and I produced the evidence you and Ramon are ignoring
-- the evidence that puts the Harper fragment in front of the limo, not
behind the limo as Ramon falsely asserted. Your paintbrush is overly
broad.

Hank
Steve Barber
2020-09-18 20:36:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Steve Barber
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
If you want to get the right answer, you have to have the facts. Not the
conspiracy myths.
Hank
This has been answered scores of times, your [qualifier removed] keeps on
removing my posts.
I haven't seen your response. It appears you've adopted the Tony Marsh
excuse for when you don't have an answer except "I was wrong." Saying the
moderator deleted your post is like the kid showing up at school saying
"The dog ate my homework."
Post by ***@gmail.com
I have something better than facts.
Hilarious. You have conspiracy mythology. That loses out to facts every
day of the week.
Evidence.
Yes. I have the actual evidence, like the FBI report of what Harper told
them. You have false claims by conspiracy mongers.
I am not talking about claims. I am talking about physical evidence.
You know nothing. All you do is attack, never learn.
The physical evidence is the skull bone. That piece of skull bone was
found *south* of the President when he was shot. *South* puts the bone
forward and to the left of the President (look at a map of Dealey Plaza).
Ramon claimed, from his conspiracy sources, that the skull fragment was
found behind the limo. That is false. I'm seeking a retraction or
clarification from Ramon.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
"CNN: This is an Apple"
http://youtu.be/Is29IiIGJEc
Hilarious. You don't realize that you're the one shouting "it's a
BANANA!!!" The skull fragment was found south of the limo. Where is south
of the limo, Ramone? Look at a map of Dealey Plaza and tell us.
I always pointed out that erroneous report.
"That erroneous report" is the false claim by conspiracy mongers who moved
the bone from its reported located by Harper from south of the President
at the time of the head shot (the left-front) to behind the limo at the
time of the head shot.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Don't try to saddle me with all the mistakes of th winesses.
What? It's the lie of the conspiracy authors (that the skull fragment was
found behind the limo) that I'm talking about. You're introducing a straw
man argument.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
The witness in this case wasn't mistaken. He told where he found the skull
fragment, and it's noted in the FBI report --"The bone was located
approximately 25 feet south of the spot where President Kennedy was shot."
And I never disputed hhat so don't complain to me.
So you agree with me the skull fragment found to the left-front of the
President head when he was shot? Tell Ramon he was wrongto say it was
found behind the President then.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
The conspiracy mongers have been lying about the location of the found
fragment for decades.
No. Some.
Can you cite any conspiracy author that said the skull fragment was found
forward of the President? That's the problem with the incestuous nature of
the conspiracy authors citations... they either repeat other conspiracy
authors conclusions or don't discuss the issue. I cannot think of one
conspiracy author who actually put the Harper fragment in the correct
location ... can you?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Never rely on witnesses.
The witness knows where he found it. People who read conspiracy books and
rely on those books to tell them the truth? Not so much. Apparently
No one ahould rely on conspiracy books or WC defender books.
Sound advice for Ramon. Apparently Ramon was relying on conspiracy books
to tell him the truth.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
neither you nor Ramon bothered to check the actual location of the found
Another false charge. I read the original documents.
Yet you here you are arguing with me, not Ramon, about the location of the
skull fragment.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
skull bone as reported by the witness, and instead relied on what was
reported by conspiracy mongers like Robert Groden and Josiah Thompson.
Never,
Never? Ramon certainly does. You repeat a lot of the same nonsense
expressed in the early conspiracy books as fact, although it's been
exposed as nonsense.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Thompson pretends the skull bone was found behind the limo, claiming (SIX
"The exact location where Harper found the bone is somewhat ambigusous.
...
That's not the only mistake he made.
I wouldn't go there. Is it a *mistake* to deliberately say something
false? He also claimed, in SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS, in support of the idea
that bone was blown out the back of the back, that a reflection of the
retaining wall on the limo was a white mass moving backward over the
trunk. He suggested that was bone or brain matter. It was a reflection.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
What all those reports seem to describe is a massive impact that exploded
outward through the back of the skull driving bone and brain tissue with
it. We know where this mass of bone and tissue went. It splattered
motorcycle officers Martin and Hargis, the biggest piece of skull
continuing on a left and downward course until it came to rest only inches
from the south (or left) curb of Elm Street. ** A smaller piece of skull
broken off the occipital bone at the rear of the skull was thrown even
farther to the left onto the grass verge where it was found the following
day by Billy Harper.** "
Conspiracy mongers have been lying about this since 1967. Don't you think
it's time conspiracy theorists like yourself refer to the actual document
where the bone fragment is placed 25 feet to the south (left-front) of the
President when he was shot?
Those conspiracy authors that fooled you and the others who read their
books are laughing about this all the way to the bank.
No one folled me. I researched it for myself.
And yet you still cannot admit the correct location, instead talking about
the "the mistakes of th winesses" and claiming "I always pointed out that
erroneous report" (talking about the source FBI document).
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/images/harpermap.gif
The location Harper found it is well forward of the limo at the time of
the head shot. More than likely, the large piece of bone seen spiralling
upward in frame 313 at approximately the one o'clock position from JFK's
head is the Harper fragment. There is no piece of bone being ejected
backward visible in that frame.
https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z313.jpg
Hmmm. For some reason you didn't discuss the map of Dealey Plaza Harper
actually marked. It's curious that Ramon won't acknowledge it either.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
You want factoids?
No. The fact is as I quoted to you.
==== Quote ====
Here, let me now quote from the original FBI source document, CD-5, as
reproduced in an appendix of _SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS_. I purchased this
book in 1967 and have know the fact about where the skull fragment was
found for 53 years. You need to learn it, and learn that conspiracy
authors are not being honest with their readers.
Sometimes they had to guess because the government was withholding so
much evidence.
Too generic to respond to. The Harper fragment was found as quoted below.
If you have any doubts about where south is in relation to the President's
And of course, you ignored that too.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
== QUOTE ==
WILLIAM ALLEN HARPER. a student at Texas Christian University. Ft. Worth,
Texas, but who lives in Dallas... was taking photographs during the
afternoon of November 23, 1963, approximately 5:30PM in the area just
south of the spot where President KENNEDY was assassinated and had found a
piece of bone. The bone was located approximately 25 feet south of the
spot where President Kennedy was shot...
== UNQUOTE ==
==== unquote ====
The piece of skull wasn't found where you claimed it was.
Post by ***@gmail.com
Go to Jeff "but, but, but Johannides, but, but, Johannides, but, but, but
Johannides" Morley.
This is a distraction. I don't know if Morley has chattering teeth, but
this red herring (change of subject) is clearly not a response to where
the skull bone of JFK was found.
Post by ***@gmail.com
You want The Truth, the incontrovertible, undeniable, definite, scientific
(first since 1963), accepted by The People solution?
Go to JFK Numbers
You've been quoting conspiracy mythology. You need to stick to the facts
if you want to get anywhere. GIGO (Garbage in, Garbage out) is a
well-known computer acronym. It means the conclusions is only as good as
the data you feed it. You are feeding in garbage with the begged question
"What was the explanation for the Harper Fragment landing meters behind
the limo?" because the Harper fragment did not land behind the limo at
all. It was found to the left front of the limo. That's the fact, which
you have yet to admit.
Ramon owes us an explanation and a retraction.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
So... What was that university(ies) that you trust again? John Da Eagle is
the only one that has replied (said: "MIT", have the e-mail), but recanted
later.
Another distraction. Where was the skull bone found, Ramone? That's the
issue I raised, and that's the issue you're ducking. Where's the evidence
it was found behind the limo? You have only secondary (conspiracy) sources
for that claim. The original source document, the FBI interview of Harper,
says the bone fragment was found south of the limo.
Look at a map. Where is south in Dealey Plaza?
Post by ***@gmail.com
-Ramon
JFK Numbers
ps: If The Top Dogs quit, defeated and humiliated what makes you think
that you will do better?
Begged question. You commit almost as many logical fallacies as Tony Marsh.
Just answer the question you've been avoiding with your left brain: Where
was the skull fragment found relative to the limo?
Ramon? Where was the fragment found? Behind the limo, or to the left front
of the limo? Does the fact that your conspiracy source isn't telling you
the truth here cause you any doubts about what else that conspiracy source
isn't being honest about? Why or why not?
As always, when CTs are caught claiming stuff in contradiction to the
facts, they go mute.
As usual you misrepresent.
Well, you haven't gone mute, but Ramon is clearly now refusing to discuss
this and what the distortion of the evidence by conspiracy authors
indicates about their honesty and trustworthiness. And as Ramon was
initially convinced of his conclusion by conspiracy authors, what's that
say about Ramon's conclusions? I'm trying to get him to discuss this, but
he's avoiding it entirely and talking about other stuff. He's gone mute on
the discussion I'm trying to have with him and keeps changing the subject.
You too won't admit the conspiracy authors have been misrepresenting the
found location of the Harper skull fragment since 1967. Instead you
suggest it was the "the mistakes of th winesses" and claiming you
"...always pointed out that erroneous report" (talking about the source
FBI document), suggesting the original source document was in error and
that Billy Harper was mistaken about where he found the skull fragment.
Hank
Hank, let's not forget the skull fragment that I mentioned was discovered
by a David Burrough's (misspelled as "Burris"), also ahead of the
limousine. He turned it over the the authorities. There is a black and
white professional photograph taken from down by the underpass, facing
east, with a star and a line drawn on the actual photo of where Burrough's
found the skull frag., and on the back of the photograph it gives the
location in inches and feet from the curb to the area in the grass where
it was found. This is not far the manhole on the south side of Elm
Street.
Citation for the photo and David Burroughs statement?
Hank
I obtained the photograph with description written on the back of it from
Todd Vaughan. As far as I know, it isn't available online, and I am
waiting to hear from Todd regarding where he obtained it from. I sent it
to .John McAdams a month or so ago, and perhaps he can post it on his
Website.
Anthony Marsh
2020-09-17 03:10:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Barber
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
If you want to get the right answer, you have to have the facts. Not the
conspiracy myths.
Hank
This has been answered scores of times, your [qualifier removed] keeps on
removing my posts.
I haven't seen your response. It appears you've adopted the Tony Marsh
excuse for when you don't have an answer except "I was wrong." Saying the
moderator deleted your post is like the kid showing up at school saying
"The dog ate my homework."
Post by ***@gmail.com
I have something better than facts.
Hilarious. You have conspiracy mythology. That loses out to facts every
day of the week.
Evidence.
Yes. I have the actual evidence, like the FBI report of what Harper told
them. You have false claims by conspiracy mongers.
I am not talking about claims. I am talking about physical evidence.
You know nothing. All you do is attack, never learn.
The physical evidence is the skull bone. That piece of skull bone was
found *south* of the President when he was shot. *South* puts the bone
forward and to the left of the President (look at a map of Dealey Plaza).
Ramon claimed, from his conspiracy sources, that the skull fragment was
found behind the limo. That is false. I'm seeking a retraction or
clarification from Ramon.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
"CNN: This is an Apple"
http://youtu.be/Is29IiIGJEc
Hilarious. You don't realize that you're the one shouting "it's a
BANANA!!!" The skull fragment was found south of the limo. Where is south
of the limo, Ramone? Look at a map of Dealey Plaza and tell us.
I always pointed out that erroneous report.
"That erroneous report" is the false claim by conspiracy mongers who moved
the bone from its reported located by Harper from south of the President
at the time of the head shot (the left-front) to behind the limo at the
time of the head shot.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Don't try to saddle me with all the mistakes of th winesses.
What? It's the lie of the conspiracy authors (that the skull fragment was
found behind the limo) that I'm talking about. You're introducing a straw
man argument.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
The witness in this case wasn't mistaken. He told where he found the skull
fragment, and it's noted in the FBI report --"The bone was located
approximately 25 feet south of the spot where President Kennedy was shot."
And I never disputed hhat so don't complain to me.
So you agree with me the skull fragment found to the left-front of the
President head when he was shot? Tell Ramon he was wrongto say it was
found behind the President then.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
The conspiracy mongers have been lying about the location of the found
fragment for decades.
No. Some.
Can you cite any conspiracy author that said the skull fragment was found
forward of the President? That's the problem with the incestuous nature of
the conspiracy authors citations... they either repeat other conspiracy
authors conclusions or don't discuss the issue. I cannot think of one
conspiracy author who actually put the Harper fragment in the correct
location ... can you?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Never rely on witnesses.
The witness knows where he found it. People who read conspiracy books and
rely on those books to tell them the truth? Not so much. Apparently
No one ahould rely on conspiracy books or WC defender books.
Sound advice for Ramon. Apparently Ramon was relying on conspiracy books
to tell him the truth.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
neither you nor Ramon bothered to check the actual location of the found
Another false charge. I read the original documents.
Yet you here you are arguing with me, not Ramon, about the location of the
skull fragment.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
skull bone as reported by the witness, and instead relied on what was
reported by conspiracy mongers like Robert Groden and Josiah Thompson.
Never,
Never? Ramon certainly does. You repeat a lot of the same nonsense
expressed in the early conspiracy books as fact, although it's been
exposed as nonsense.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Thompson pretends the skull bone was found behind the limo, claiming (SIX
"The exact location where Harper found the bone is somewhat ambigusous.
...
That's not the only mistake he made.
I wouldn't go there. Is it a *mistake* to deliberately say something
false? He also claimed, in SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS, in support of the idea
that bone was blown out the back of the back, that a reflection of the
retaining wall on the limo was a white mass moving backward over the
trunk. He suggested that was bone or brain matter. It was a reflection.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
What all those reports seem to describe is a massive impact that exploded
outward through the back of the skull driving bone and brain tissue with
it. We know where this mass of bone and tissue went. It splattered
motorcycle officers Martin and Hargis, the biggest piece of skull
continuing on a left and downward course until it came to rest only inches
from the south (or left) curb of Elm Street. ** A smaller piece of skull
broken off the occipital bone at the rear of the skull was thrown even
farther to the left onto the grass verge where it was found the following
day by Billy Harper.** "
Conspiracy mongers have been lying about this since 1967. Don't you think
it's time conspiracy theorists like yourself refer to the actual document
where the bone fragment is placed 25 feet to the south (left-front) of the
President when he was shot?
Those conspiracy authors that fooled you and the others who read their
books are laughing about this all the way to the bank.
No one folled me. I researched it for myself.
And yet you still cannot admit the correct location, instead talking about
the "the mistakes of th winesses" and claiming "I always pointed out that
erroneous report" (talking about the source FBI document).
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/images/harpermap.gif
The location Harper found it is well forward of the limo at the time of
the head shot. More than likely, the large piece of bone seen spiralling
upward in frame 313 at approximately the one o'clock position from JFK's
head is the Harper fragment. There is no piece of bone being ejected
backward visible in that frame.
https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z313.jpg
Hmmm. For some reason you didn't discuss the map of Dealey Plaza Harper
actually marked. It's curious that Ramon won't acknowledge it either.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
You want factoids?
No. The fact is as I quoted to you.
==== Quote ====
Here, let me now quote from the original FBI source document, CD-5, as
reproduced in an appendix of _SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS_. I purchased this
book in 1967 and have know the fact about where the skull fragment was
found for 53 years. You need to learn it, and learn that conspiracy
authors are not being honest with their readers.
Sometimes they had to guess because the government was withholding so
much evidence.
Too generic to respond to. The Harper fragment was found as quoted below.
If you have any doubts about where south is in relation to the President's
And of course, you ignored that too.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
== QUOTE ==
WILLIAM ALLEN HARPER. a student at Texas Christian University. Ft. Worth,
Texas, but who lives in Dallas... was taking photographs during the
afternoon of November 23, 1963, approximately 5:30PM in the area just
south of the spot where President KENNEDY was assassinated and had found a
piece of bone. The bone was located approximately 25 feet south of the
spot where President Kennedy was shot...
== UNQUOTE ==
==== unquote ====
The piece of skull wasn't found where you claimed it was.
Post by ***@gmail.com
Go to Jeff "but, but, but Johannides, but, but, Johannides, but, but, but
Johannides" Morley.
This is a distraction. I don't know if Morley has chattering teeth, but
this red herring (change of subject) is clearly not a response to where
the skull bone of JFK was found.
Post by ***@gmail.com
You want The Truth, the incontrovertible, undeniable, definite, scientific
(first since 1963), accepted by The People solution?
Go to JFK Numbers
You've been quoting conspiracy mythology. You need to stick to the facts
if you want to get anywhere. GIGO (Garbage in, Garbage out) is a
well-known computer acronym. It means the conclusions is only as good as
the data you feed it. You are feeding in garbage with the begged question
"What was the explanation for the Harper Fragment landing meters behind
the limo?" because the Harper fragment did not land behind the limo at
all. It was found to the left front of the limo. That's the fact, which
you have yet to admit.
Ramon owes us an explanation and a retraction.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by ***@gmail.com
So... What was that university(ies) that you trust again? John Da Eagle is
the only one that has replied (said: "MIT", have the e-mail), but recanted
later.
Another distraction. Where was the skull bone found, Ramone? That's the
issue I raised, and that's the issue you're ducking. Where's the evidence
it was found behind the limo? You have only secondary (conspiracy) sources
for that claim. The original source document, the FBI interview of Harper,
says the bone fragment was found south of the limo.
Look at a map. Where is south in Dealey Plaza?
Post by ***@gmail.com
-Ramon
JFK Numbers
ps: If The Top Dogs quit, defeated and humiliated what makes you think
that you will do better?
Begged question. You commit almost as many logical fallacies as Tony Marsh.
Just answer the question you've been avoiding with your left brain: Where
was the skull fragment found relative to the limo?
Ramon? Where was the fragment found? Behind the limo, or to the left front
of the limo? Does the fact that your conspiracy source isn't telling you
the truth here cause you any doubts about what else that conspiracy source
isn't being honest about? Why or why not?
As always, when CTs are caught claiming stuff in contradiction to the
facts, they go mute.
As usual you misrepresent.
Well, you haven't gone mute, but Ramon is clearly now refusing to discuss
this and what the distortion of the evidence by conspiracy authors
indicates about their honesty and trustworthiness. And as Ramon was
initially convinced of his conclusion by conspiracy authors, what's that
say about Ramon's conclusions? I'm trying to get him to discuss this, but
he's avoiding it entirely and talking about other stuff. He's gone mute on
the discussion I'm trying to have with him and keeps changing the subject.
You too won't admit the conspiracy authors have been misrepresenting the
found location of the Harper skull fragment since 1967. Instead you
suggest it was the "the mistakes of th winesses" and claiming you
"...always pointed out that erroneous report" (talking about the source
FBI document), suggesting the original source document was in error and
that Billy Harper was mistaken about where he found the skull fragment.
Hank
Hank, let's not forget the skull fragment that I mentioned was discovered
by a D's (misspelled as "Burris"), also ahead of the
limousine. He turned it over the the authorities. There is a black and
white professional photograph taken from down by the underpass, facing
east, with a star and a line drawn on the actual photo of where Burrough's
found the skull frag., and on the back of the photograph it gives the
location in inches and feet from the curb to the area in the grass where
it was found. This is not far the manhole on the south side of Elm
Street.
So why didn't you link the photo for us? Where do you think it came from?
How far in front of the limo at frame 313?
Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
2020-09-06 02:39:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
If you want to get the right answer, you have to have the facts. Not the
conspiracy myths.
Hank
This has been answered scores of times, your [qualifier removed] keeps on
removing my posts.
I have something better than facts.
"CNN: This is an Apple"
http://youtu.be/Is29IiIGJEc
You want factoids?
Go to Jeff "but, but, but Johannides, but, but, Johannides, but, but, but
Johannides" Morley.
You want The Truth, the incontrovertible, undeniable, definite, scientific
(first since 1963), accepted by The People solution?
Go to JFK Numbers
So... What was that university(ies) that you trust again? John Da Eagle is
the only one that has replied (said: "MIT", have the e-mail), but recanted
later.
-Ramon
JFK Numbers
ps: If The Top Dogs quit, defeated and humiliated what makes you think
that you will do better?
Sorry, I did not realize you would post the same avoidance of an answer
twice. I would have copied my other post and pasted it here. You just need
to answer some simple questions, Ramon, where was the skull fragment
found, according to the source document (CD5, interview of Harper and his
uncle), and did you put it elsewhere? Why? What was your source? Did they
lie to you?
Piotr Mancini
2020-09-13 18:14:21 UTC
Permalink
Given current science and technology, it is today possible:

(1) To obtain a high fidelity, digital copy of the 3 X-rays.

(2) From them, to extract two accurate models of the victim's cranium:

(2a) Pristine, before impact:

Loading Image...
Loading Image...

(2b) A little banged up, some wear and tear, after impact:
https://revision.lukasz.cc/view/MQr3Fux3X1WgF8Ahcw8sMTAg51BGxexw
Loading Image...

The Harper Fragment (photo only) becomes an INPUT, used to build the
latter cranium's model, precise landing location TBD.

As usual, we have two scenarios:

Scenario 'A' by Marsh:

Virtual shooters ascend to the 6th. floor, southeast corner.

BANG! Check consequences (Z-film, 2 X-rays): "Nope, not even close"

"Are you sure about the numbers of grains?

"Of course! 156 grains"

"Let's add a couple more"

BANG! Check consequences (Z-film, 2 X-rays): "Nope, not even close"

"Let's position the rifle a little lower, by the window sill"

BANG! Check consequences (Z-film, 2 X-rays): "Nope, not even close"

"I think we are hitting the cranium too tangential, let's bring it close
to the center by 4 mm"

BANG! Check consequences (Z-film, 2 X-rays): "Nope, not even close"

"Look, the much improved Zapruder (finally released) places the limos
several inches downhill and near the left of Elm".

BANG! Check consequences (Z-film, 2 X-rays): "Nope, not even close"

[Hours and hours of CPU time pass, until they decide to move to points
along the Stockade Fence (not to be confused with Grassy Knoll)].

After a couple of BANGS! They go: BINGO!!!

==================

Scenario 'B' by McAdams:

Just the mirror of the above scenario, they crank the CPUs with frontal
shots (different weapons and locations are allowed) and:

BANG! Check consequences (Z-film, 2 X-rays): "Nope, not even close"

Finally, the decide to climb the virtual stairs and soon enough they get a
perfect match.

==================

THEREFORE, everybody here should be:

"Hey, Ramon, you mentioned the affordability of FEA/CFD sofware, what
brand was it? Can I get a copy?"

and

"Are you sure that those so called FEA/CFD experts that you located and
hired are honest? Will they release all their files? Will all the
simulations be properly documented and repeatable?"

"I am going to get Sturdivan's recommendation for some REAL FEA/CFD
experts"

That kind of response, however, only exists in my dreams, which are known
to be very wild.

-Ramon
JFK Numbers
Piotr Mancini
2020-09-13 22:25:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Piotr Mancini
(1) To obtain a high fidelity, digital copy of the 3 X-rays.
http://www.jfknumbers.org/ich-bin-ein-berliner/osseus-models/craniums/2-High-Resolution/Renderings/White-Texture-1.jpg
http://www.jfknumbers.org/ich-bin-ein-berliner/osseus-models/craniums/2-High-Resolution/Renderings/White-Texture-2.jpg
https://revision.lukasz.cc/view/MQr3Fux3X1WgF8Ahcw8sMTAg51BGxexw
http://www.jfknumbers.org/~ramon/misc/My-Latests-Acquisitions.jpg
The Harper Fragment (photo only) becomes an INPUT, used to build the
latter cranium's model, precise landing location TBD.
Virtual shooters ascend to the 6th. floor, southeast corner.
BANG! Check consequences (Z-film, 2 X-rays): "Nope, not even close"
"Are you sure about the numbers of grains?
"Of course! 156 grains"
"Let's add a couple more"
BANG! Check consequences (Z-film, 2 X-rays): "Nope, not even close"
"Let's position the rifle a little lower, by the window sill"
BANG! Check consequences (Z-film, 2 X-rays): "Nope, not even close"
"I think we are hitting the cranium too tangential, let's bring it close
to the center by 4 mm"
BANG! Check consequences (Z-film, 2 X-rays): "Nope, not even close"
"Look, the much improved Zapruder (finally released) places the limo
several inches downhill and near the left of Elm".
BANG! Check consequences (Z-film, 2 X-rays): "Nope, not even close"
[Hours and hours of CPU time pass, until they decide to move to points
along the Stockade Fence (not to be confused with Grassy Knoll)].
After a couple of BANGS! They go: BINGO!!!
==================
Just the mirror of the above scenario, they crank the CPUs with frontal
BANG! Check consequences (Z-film, 2 X-rays): "Nope, not even close"
Finally, the decide to climb the virtual stairs and soon enough they get a
perfect match.
==================
"Hey, Ramon, you mentioned the affordability of FEA/CFD sofware, what
brand was it? Can I get a copy?"
and
"Are you sure that those so called FEA/CFD experts that you located and
hired are honest? Will they release all their files? Will all the
simulations be properly documented and repeatable?"
"I am going to get Sturdivan's recommendation for some REAL FEA/CFD
experts"
That kind of response, however, only exists in my dreams, which are known
to be very wild.
Oh, I forgot that the question in this thread is the precise landing
location of the Harper's Fragment.

After all the shooting is over, people will come:

"Hey, Ramon, we know now that [McAdams, Marsh] was right, but what about
the Harper Fragment? You declared it T.D.B., were you deceiving to us? Are
you a rotten liar?"

[RFH:] "Oh, good point. We already paid this gizmo for the whole weekend,
so let's crank it up."

Then we will INFORM William Harper where he found the fragment. Unless, of
course, it was kicked by the commotion, dragged by a dog, etc. The Time
Machine of JFK Numbers is good, but not that good.

-Ramon
JFK Numbers

ps: Let the record show that with this little video:



and this little illustration:

Loading Image...

(a) The Jet Effect
(b) The Australian Production

are officially declared DEAD.

pps: The text spots where it says "Ramon" or "JFK Numbers" are just
placeholders. Somebody, someday will perform those studies. It is simply
impossible that this one case is the only one in history that cannot be
subjected to the proper techniques used in forensic cases that involve
cranium a cerebrum ballistics. For those who arrived late, there you go:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLof8jFzqbDPJIiEREC5GipycH-M6OsSP3

"Brazil: "Yes, we can!" -- USA: "No, we can't""

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.assassination.jfk/hB1sJSexrgk/TeozKZyCAwAJ
Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
2020-09-14 03:13:03 UTC
Permalink
Where was the Harper fragment found, Ramon? Was it behind the limo, as you
originally claimed, or was it forward and to the left (south) of the
President at the time the President was shot, as the FBI report of William
Harper and his uncle claims?

Why are you avoiding the facts here?

Remember, Garbage in, Garbage out.

Hank
Anthony Marsh
2020-09-15 14:13:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Where was the Harper fragment found, Ramon? Was it behind the limo, as you
originally claimed, or was it forward and to the left (south) of the
President at the time the President was shot, as the FBI report of William
Harper and his uncle claims?
Why are you avoiding the facts here?
Remember, Garbage in, Garbage out.
Hank
Well, I hate to bother you with physics, but it's called Conservation of
Momentum. When the skull fragment was ejected from the head it was flying
to the left and slightly forward. It continued going left and forward
until it hit the ground.
Piotr Mancini
2020-09-15 21:10:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Well, I hate to bother you with physics, but it's called Conservation of
Momentum. When the skull fragment was ejected from the head it was flying
to the left and slightly forward. It continued going left and forward
until it hit the ground.
ALL the factors must be included in a PROFESSIONAL, RESPONSIBLE,
SCIENTIFIC study.

As they said in The Six Million Dollar Man: "We have the Science, we have
the Technology"

The metal corset?

Used by BOTH sides to bolster their pre-ordained results based on
blah-blah and fertilizer.

This is a fascinating discovery.

"Breaking News: Two more authors of JFK studies are in contact"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.assassination.jfk/e53sivortZk/ePwgrS9sAQAJ

"On the Equivalence of Numerical Studies"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.assassination.jfk/1cNqMzJiNGA/GwaPyJVJAQAJ

Nick Nalli, PhD, the author of the only possible explanation left for the
VBS produced by a shot coming from 6 floors above, behind the victim, had
NO IDEA about FEA/CFD. His work has zero graphics, let alone video. He
liked my/your/our YouTube Channel.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLof8jFzqbDPJIiEREC5GipycH-M6OsSP3

and thanked me for adding his work to my/your/our GDrive:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BydXldbRY__vRUtNWTNTQTZSQzg

Nick Nalli wants to talk, and he is not the only one.

We Engineers and Scientists tend to be honest. Some, brutally honest.
Lawyers are liars. Not unlike Spooks, esquires are trained to lie.

-Ramon
JFK Numbers
John Corbett
2020-09-16 02:41:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Piotr Mancini
Post by Anthony Marsh
Well, I hate to bother you with physics, but it's called Conservation of
Momentum. When the skull fragment was ejected from the head it was flying
to the left and slightly forward. It continued going left and forward
until it hit the ground.
ALL the factors must be included in a PROFESSIONAL, RESPONSIBLE,
SCIENTIFIC study.
As they said in The Six Million Dollar Man: "We have the Science, we have
the Technology"
The Six Million Dollar Man was make believe. Like JFK Numbers. Neither are
based in science.
piotr....@gmail.com
2020-09-16 17:46:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Corbett
Post by Piotr Mancini
Post by Anthony Marsh
Well, I hate to bother you with physics, but it's called Conservation of
Momentum. When the skull fragment was ejected from the head it was flying
to the left and slightly forward. It continued going left and forward
until it hit the ground.
ALL the factors must be included in a PROFESSIONAL, RESPONSIBLE,
SCIENTIFIC study.
As they said in The Six Million Dollar Man: "We have the Science, we have
the Technology"
The Six Million Dollar Man was make believe. Like JFK Numbers. Neither are
based in science.
Your definition of Science (among many other concepts) are miles apart,
diametrically opposed.

So, how would you make those unprecedented initiatives closer to Science?

Please keep this in mind:

(1) If there are hidden files, it is not Science.

(2) If the scientists are finger appointed (HSCA FPP, the 12 Fraudulent
Studies), it is not Science.

(3) Science never fails to find The Truth, it keeps on looking for and
PERFECTING it.

(4) We can only say that The Truth has been found when The People accepts
it. That is a necessary yet not sufficient condition. The People were
convinced that Earth was flat.

(5) Which of the 12 Fraudulent Studies qualify as Science?

https://archive.org/details/@the_12_fraudulent_studies?sort=titleSorter

(6) All the forensic cases that involve cranium and cerebrum ballistics
can/should be studied using the proper tools that science and technology
has provided, with one notable exception. Will the case that occupies our
attention ever be studied with the rigor that science demands?

Speaking of made-for-TV studies (away from universities), predict for us,
if you will: What will happen in 2023?

What would make you satisfied from the boob tube?

-Ramon
JFK Numbers
John Corbett
2020-09-17 03:10:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by John Corbett
Post by Piotr Mancini
Post by Anthony Marsh
Well, I hate to bother you with physics, but it's called Conservation of
Momentum. When the skull fragment was ejected from the head it was flying
to the left and slightly forward. It continued going left and forward
until it hit the ground.
ALL the factors must be included in a PROFESSIONAL, RESPONSIBLE,
SCIENTIFIC study.
As they said in The Six Million Dollar Man: "We have the Science, we have
the Technology"
The Six Million Dollar Man was make believe. Like JFK Numbers. Neither are
based in science.
Your definition of Science (among many other concepts) are miles apart,
diametrically opposed.
So, how would you make those unprecedented initiatives closer to Science?
(1) If there are hidden files, it is not Science.
(2) If the scientists are finger appointed (HSCA FPP, the 12 Fraudulent
Studies), it is not Science.
(3) Science never fails to find The Truth, it keeps on looking for and
PERFECTING it.
(4) We can only say that The Truth has been found when The People accepts
it. That is a necessary yet not sufficient condition. The People were
convinced that Earth was flat.
(5) Which of the 12 Fraudulent Studies qualify as Science?
(6) All the forensic cases that involve cranium and cerebrum ballistics
can/should be studied using the proper tools that science and technology
has provided, with one notable exception. Will the case that occupies our
attention ever be studied with the rigor that science demands?
Speaking of made-for-TV studies (away from universities), predict for us,
if you will: What will happen in 2023?
What would make you satisfied from the boob tube?
Do you believe a bionic man is a reality?
piotr....@gmail.com
2020-09-17 16:07:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Corbett
Do you believe a bionic man is a reality?
As usual, let's defer to the Authoritative Entities. There you go:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bionics

This is how much -or care- about Steve Austin or the location of the
Harper Fragment:

"I Don't Know What Reel 10 is, Howard!"

Post by John Corbett
The Six Million Dollar Man was make believe. Like JFK Numbers.
Neither are based in science.
Your definition of Science (among many other concepts, such as
accountability) and mine are miles apart, diametrically opposed.

So, how would you make those unprecedented initiatives closer to Science?

Please keep this in mind:

(1) If there are hidden files, it is not Science.

(2) If the scientists are finger appointed (HSCA FPP, the 12 Fraudulent
Studies), it is not Science.

(3) Science never fails to find The Truth, it keeps on looking for and
PERFECTING it.

(4) We can only say that The Truth has been found when The People accept
it. That is a necessary yet not sufficient condition. The People were
convinced that Earth was flat.

(5) Which of the 12 Fraudulent Studies qualify as Science?

https://archive.org/details/@the_12_fraudulent_studies?sort=titleSorter

(6) All the forensic cases that involve cranium and cerebrum ballistics
can/should be studied using the proper tools that science and technology
has provided, with one notable exception. Will the case that occupies our
attention ever be studied with the rigor that science demands?

Speaking of made-for-TV studies (away from universities), predict for us,
if you will: What will happen in 2023?

What would make you satisfied from the boob tube?

-Ramon
JFK Numbers
John Corbett
2020-09-18 02:31:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by John Corbett
Do you believe a bionic man is a reality?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bionics
This is how much -or care- about Steve Austin or the location of the
"I Don't Know What Reel 10 is, Howard!"
http://youtu.be/b8primPl_n8
Post by John Corbett
The Six Million Dollar Man was make believe. Like JFK Numbers.
Neither are based in science.
Your definition of Science (among many other concepts, such as
accountability) and mine are miles apart, diametrically opposed.
That's true. Mine is realistic.
Post by ***@gmail.com
So, how would you make those unprecedented initiatives closer to Science?
It's not my job.
Post by ***@gmail.com
(1) If there are hidden files, it is not Science.
What hidden files?
Post by ***@gmail.com
(2) If the scientists are finger appointed (HSCA FPP, the 12 Fraudulent
Studies), it is not Science.
Nonsense. The people appointed to the HSCA FPP and other investigations
were hand picked because they were recognized as among the best in their
field. How would you propose they be chosen? By lottery?
Post by ***@gmail.com
(3) Science never fails to find The Truth, it keeps on looking for and
PERFECTING it.
There are many question science has never answered. For example, what came
before the Big Bang?
Post by ***@gmail.com
(4) We can only say that The Truth has been found when The People accept
it.
More nonsense. The truth is the truth whether people accept it or not.
Post by ***@gmail.com
That is a necessary yet not sufficient condition. The People were
convinced that Earth was flat.
You just refuted yourself. The earth was never flat even when it was
widely believed to be.
Post by ***@gmail.com
(5) Which of the 12 Fraudulent Studies qualify as Science?
You assume past studies have been fraudulent.
Post by ***@gmail.com
(6) All the forensic cases that involve cranium and cerebrum ballistics
can/should be studied using the proper tools that science and technology
has provided, with one notable exception. Will the case that occupies our
attention ever be studied with the rigor that science demands?
It has been. Tried and true methods have been used to determine the nature
of JFK's wounds. You seem to want to disregard those in favor of unproven
methods.
Post by ***@gmail.com
Speaking of made-for-TV studies (away from universities), predict for us,
if you will: What will happen in 2023?
What would make you satisfied from the boob tube?
Other than sporting events and political talk shows, I don't watch much of
anything on TV. I don't think either of those is going to deal with the
JFK assassination.
piotr....@gmail.com
2020-09-18 20:36:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Corbett
It has been. Tried and true methods have been used to determine the nature
of JFK's wounds.
Cite? [Please see below and keep in mind that this is the 21st century]


You seem to have a problem with PERFECTING the findings.

All experts who have used a Film Densitometer in situ state that the
X-rays have been falsified.

Who knows more about forensic cases that involve cranium and cerebrum
ballistics?

The Boston University College of Engineering?


The Haags and Sturdivan?
Loading Image...


You just stated that the FEA/CFD methods are unproven.



"Before every innovation, before The Truth"


when human civilization depends on them.

More specifically:

https://brainmech.ox.ac.uk/

In any event, shouldn't MIT and the other Authoritative Entities be the
ones to decide whether those methods are unproven?

The two leaders of the International Brain Mechanics and Trauma Lab (*)
have informed me that they have the capability to precisely characterize
the Fatal Shot:



Should they?

-Ramon
JFK Numbers

(*) Credit goes to John Deagle.
John Corbett
2020-09-19 01:42:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by John Corbett
It has been. Tried and true methods have been used to determine the nature
of JFK's wounds.
Cite? [Please see below and keep in mind that this is the 21st century]
http://youtu.be/2v5nIfguyV8
You seem to have a problem with PERFECTING the findings.
All experts who have used a Film Densitometer in situ state that the
X-rays have been falsified.
Who knows more about forensic cases that involve cranium and cerebrum
ballistics?
The Boston University College of Engineering?
http://youtu.be/xLPDlaLS4d4
The Haags and Sturdivan?
http://www.jfknumbers.org/~ramon/jfk/Haags-BSx2.png
http://youtu.be/Ca5aBCFHdPA
You just stated that the FEA/CFD methods are unproven.
http://youtu.be/Suk7Mnt_hJk
"Before every innovation, before The Truth"
http://youtu.be/8C7dcp4Td88
when human civilization depends on them.
https://brainmech.ox.ac.uk/
In any event, shouldn't MIT and the other Authoritative Entities be the
ones to decide whether those methods are unproven?
The two leaders of the International Brain Mechanics and Trauma Lab (*)
have informed me that they have the capability to precisely characterize
http://youtu.be/cNVdyUJMAAM
Should they?
You dismiss the opinions of virtually every qualified professional who has
examined the evidence and then claim you are searching for the truth. You
dismiss the conclusions of the Haag's. You dismiss the findings of the
HSCA FPP. You dismiss the conclusions of Dr. Peter Cummings, one of the
most prominent current day experts in the fields of forensic medicine and
neuropathology. You disregard what these people have concluded because you
want to believe something else.
piotr....@gmail.com
2020-09-20 21:36:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Corbett
Post by ***@gmail.com
(1) If there are hidden files, it is not Science.
What hidden files?
The files needed to REPLICATE (or attempt) the 12 Studies:

https://archive.org/details/@the_12_fraudulent_studies?sort=titleSorter

- Number of Files Made Available by The 12 Studies: ZERO

- Numbers of Publications by The 12 Studies: ZERO

Therefore:

Loading Image...

-Ramon
JFK Numbers

"If the scientist's work is REPLICABLE then it is good"
- Steve Galbraith

ps: From my Automated Debater of Deplorables:

Elitism means that the medical school student who was the brightest and
hardest working, is the one that gets to treat your sick child.

Somehow, Social Conservatives (aka Trump voters) seem to have a problem
with that.

-Signed: Ramon The Elitist Liberal
John Corbett
2020-09-17 13:47:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Speaking of made-for-TV studies (away from universities), predict for us,
if you will: What will happen in 2023?
Assuming Joe Biden isn't elected president, the United States will
continue to exist.
Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
2020-09-16 16:42:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Piotr Mancini
Post by Anthony Marsh
Well, I hate to bother you with physics, but it's called Conservation of
Momentum. When the skull fragment was ejected from the head it was flying
to the left and slightly forward. It continued going left and forward
until it hit the ground.
ALL the factors must be included in a PROFESSIONAL, RESPONSIBLE,
SCIENTIFIC study.
What "PROFESSIONAL, RESPONSIBLE, SCIENTIFIC study" do you imagine will
assess...

o - the known found location of the Harper fragment,

o - the known autopsy results which determined the shot that struck the
President in the head hit him in the back of the head,

o - the known location of the only weapon found shortly after the
assassination in Dealey Plaza (the sixth floor of the Depository - above
and behind the President),

o - the known location of the only shooter seen during the assassination
(numerous witnesses saw a rifle or a gunman in the sixth floor southeast
corner window of the Depository)

o - the known location of the ballistic evidence (three shells found in
the Depository at the window where numerous witnesses saw a weapon or a
gunman, and two large fragments found on the floor of the limo),

o - the known location of the third victim of the assassination (James
Tague).

o - the review by the HSCA forensic pathology panel which confirmed the
autopsy finding of a shot from behind striking the President in the head,

... And determine that is evidence for a shot striking the President in
the head from anywhere except the sixth floor southeast corner window of
the Depository?

It wouldn't be a very "PROFESSIONAL, RESPONSIBLE, SCIENTIFIC study" if it
concluded the shot came from anywhere except Oswald's weapon fired from
the sixth floor SE corner window of the Depository, would it?
Post by Piotr Mancini
As they said in The Six Million Dollar Man: "We have the Science, we have
the Technology"
The metal corset?
Used by BOTH sides to bolster their pre-ordained results based on
blah-blah and fertilizer.
Change of subject. The logical fallacy of a red herring.
https://effectiviology.com/red-herring/#:~:text=The%20red%20herring%20fallacy%20is,discussion%20in%20a%20new%20direction.


Where was the Harper fragment found, Ramon?

It's curious to me that this is a settled issue, yet you refuse to concede
the point or admit you got it wrong in your original post above.

Hank
Anthony Marsh
2020-09-17 13:47:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Piotr Mancini
Post by Anthony Marsh
Well, I hate to bother you with physics, but it's called Conservation of
Momentum. When the skull fragment was ejected from the head it was flying
to the left and slightly forward. It continued going left and forward
until it hit the ground.
ALL the factors must be included in a PROFESSIONAL, RESPONSIBLE,
SCIENTIFIC study.
What "PROFESSIONAL, RESPONSIBLE, SCIENTIFIC study" do you imagine will
assess...
o - the known found location of the Harper fragment,
o - the known autopsy results which determined the shot that struck the
President in the head hit him in the back of the head,
o - the known location of the only weapon found shortly after the
assassination in Dealey Plaza (the sixth floor of the Depository - above
and behind the President),
o - the known location of the only shooter seen during the assassination
(numerous witnesses saw a rifle or a gunman in the sixth floor southeast
corner window of the Depository)
o - the known location of the ballistic evidence (three shells found in
the Depository at the window where numerous witnesses saw a weapon or a
gunman, and two large fragments found on the floor of the limo),
o - the known location of the third victim of the assassination (James
Tague).
o - the review by the HSCA forensic pathology panel which confirmed the
autopsy finding of a shot from behind striking the President in the head,
Now you are saying nothing. WHERE in the head?
You are a loonie if you think the HSCA agreed with the WC on WHERE the
bullet hit the head.
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
... And determine that is evidence for a shot striking the President in
the head from anywhere except the sixth floor southeast corner window of
the Depository?
It wouldn't be a very "PROFESSIONAL, RESPONSIBLE, SCIENTIFIC study" if it
concluded the shot came from anywhere except Oswald's weapon fired from
the sixth floor SE corner window of the Depository, would it?
Post by Piotr Mancini
As they said in The Six Million Dollar Man: "We have the Science, we have
the Technology"
The metal corset?
Used by BOTH sides to bolster their pre-ordained results based on
blah-blah and fertilizer.
Change of subject. The logical fallacy of a red herring.
https://effectiviology.com/red-herring/#:~:text=The%20red%20herring%20fallacy%20is,discussion%20in%20a%20new%20direction.
Where was the Harper fragment found, Ramon?
It's curious to me that this is a settled issue, yet you refuse to concede
the point or admit you got it wrong in your original post above.
Hank
Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
2020-09-17 20:17:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Piotr Mancini
Post by Anthony Marsh
Well, I hate to bother you with physics, but it's called Conservation of
Momentum. When the skull fragment was ejected from the head it was flying
to the left and slightly forward. It continued going left and forward
until it hit the ground.
ALL the factors must be included in a PROFESSIONAL, RESPONSIBLE,
SCIENTIFIC study.
What "PROFESSIONAL, RESPONSIBLE, SCIENTIFIC study" do you imagine will
assess...
o - the known found location of the Harper fragment,
o - the known autopsy results which determined the shot that struck the
President in the head hit him in the back of the head,
o - the known location of the only weapon found shortly after the
assassination in Dealey Plaza (the sixth floor of the Depository - above
and behind the President),
o - the known location of the only shooter seen during the assassination
(numerous witnesses saw a rifle or a gunman in the sixth floor southeast
corner window of the Depository)
o - the known location of the ballistic evidence (three shells found in
the Depository at the window where numerous witnesses saw a weapon or a
gunman, and two large fragments found on the floor of the limo),
o - the known location of the third victim of the assassination (James
Tague).
o - the review by the HSCA forensic pathology panel which confirmed the
autopsy finding of a shot from behind striking the President in the head,
Now you are saying nothing. WHERE in the head?
You are a loonie if you think the HSCA agreed with the WC on WHERE the
bullet hit the head.
Hilarious. As is typical of a CT, you ignored six of the seven points I
made to quibble on one, and one that doesn't matter to the point I'm
making.

It matters not where on the back of the head the bullet struck. What
matters is both groups found no evidence of a shot from the side, and
that's only part of the evidence indicating the shot came from behind
(remember your conservation of momentum argument? You appear to have
forgotten that point already).

The autopsy and the HSCA forensic panel indicate the bullet hit the
president in the back of the head. The witnesses saw a gunman or rifle
behind the President. The Harper fragment was found forward of the
President. The Zapruder film shows the bulk of the ejecta from the
President's head going forward, conservation of momentum would blast the
ejecta forward ... etc. etc. In short, the evidence is wholly and entirely
consistent with a shooter behind the President hitting him in the back of
the head with a bullet.

To paraphrase you, you are a loonie if you think the HSCA forensic
pathology panel disagreeing with the autopsy doctors by a few inches on
where exactly on the back of the head the bullet struck the President
means he was shot on the right side of the head with a shot from the
knoll. That's the looniest position to take.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
... And determine that is evidence for a shot striking the President in
the head from anywhere except the sixth floor southeast corner window of
the Depository?
It wouldn't be a very "PROFESSIONAL, RESPONSIBLE, SCIENTIFIC study" if it
concluded the shot came from anywhere except Oswald's weapon fired from
the sixth floor SE corner window of the Depository, would it?
Anthony Marsh
2020-09-18 20:36:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Piotr Mancini
Post by Anthony Marsh
Well, I hate to bother you with physics, but it's called Conservation of
Momentum. When the skull fragment was ejected from the head it was flying
to the left and slightly forward. It continued going left and forward
until it hit the ground.
ALL the factors must be included in a PROFESSIONAL, RESPONSIBLE,
SCIENTIFIC study.
What "PROFESSIONAL, RESPONSIBLE, SCIENTIFIC study" do you imagine will
assess...
o - the known found location of the Harper fragment,
o - the known autopsy results which determined the shot that struck the
President in the head hit him in the back of the head,
o - the known location of the only weapon found shortly after the
assassination in Dealey Plaza (the sixth floor of the Depository - above
and behind the President),
o - the known location of the only shooter seen during the assassination
(numerous witnesses saw a rifle or a gunman in the sixth floor southeast
corner window of the Depository)
o - the known location of the ballistic evidence (three shells found in
the Depository at the window where numerous witnesses saw a weapon or a
gunman, and two large fragments found on the floor of the limo),
o - the known location of the third victim of the assassination (James
Tague).
o - the review by the HSCA forensic pathology panel which confirmed the
autopsy finding of a shot from behind striking the President in the head,
Now you are saying nothing. WHERE in the head?
You are a loonie if you think the HSCA agreed with the WC on WHERE the
bullet hit the head.
Hilarious. As is typical of a CT, you ignored six of the seven points I
made to quibble on one, and one that doesn't matter to the point I'm
making.
No, just me. Because I am used to your rambling and asking silly questions
that I have answered msny times. The only thing you now how to do is
attack. Never research.
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
It matters not where on the back of the head the bullet struck. What
No bullet hit the BACK of JFK's head. You start with a false premise. And
you can't even see that everyone disagreed anout where they place a bullet
hole.
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
matters is both groups found no evidence of a shot from the side, and
Not my problem that tey were stupid.
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
that's only part of the evidence indicating the shot came from behind
Them putting out false theories does not make them correct.
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
(remember your conservation of momentum argument? You appear to have
forgotten that point already).
What do you mean? The fragment would have momenetum no matter where the
bullet came from.
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
The autopsy and the HSCA forensic panel indicate the bullet hit the
president in the back of the head. The witnesses saw a gunman or rifle
But they can't agree where and show the wound. that is your first clue
that they were wrong.
Your logic is silly. I already said that the acoustical evirence proves
3 shots from behind. But you need to study it in more deoth to find out
ehree each bullet went and ehat each hit. You can't do that.
You just ASSuME what you know that you can't prove so that you won't be
asked to prove anything.
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
behind the President. The Harper fragment was found forward of the
President. The Zapruder film shows the bulk of the ejecta from the
President's head going forward, conservation of momentum would blast the
ejecta forward ... etc. etc. In short, the evidence is wholly and entirely
consistent with a shooter behind the President hitting him in the back of
the head with a bullet.
To paraphrase you, you are a loonie if you think the HSCA forensic
pathology panel disagreeing with the autopsy doctors by a few inches on
where exactly on the back of the head the bullet struck the President
means he was shot on the right side of the head with a shot from the
knoll. That's the looniest position to take.
You didn't even bother to read what W&A said.
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
... And determine that is evidence for a shot striking the President in
the head from anywhere except the sixth floor southeast corner window of
the Depository?
It wouldn't be a very "PROFESSIONAL, RESPONSIBLE, SCIENTIFIC study" if it
concluded the shot came from anywhere except Oswald's weapon fired from
the sixth floor SE corner window of the Depository, would it?
Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
2020-09-21 13:06:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Piotr Mancini
Post by Anthony Marsh
Well, I hate to bother you with physics, but it's called Conservation of
Momentum. When the skull fragment was ejected from the head it was flying
to the left and slightly forward. It continued going left and forward
until it hit the ground.
ALL the factors must be included in a PROFESSIONAL, RESPONSIBLE,
SCIENTIFIC study.
What "PROFESSIONAL, RESPONSIBLE, SCIENTIFIC study" do you imagine will
assess...
o - the known found location of the Harper fragment,
o - the known autopsy results which determined the shot that struck the
President in the head hit him in the back of the head,
o - the known location of the only weapon found shortly after the
assassination in Dealey Plaza (the sixth floor of the Depository - above
and behind the President),
o - the known location of the only shooter seen during the assassination
(numerous witnesses saw a rifle or a gunman in the sixth floor southeast
corner window of the Depository)
o - the known location of the ballistic evidence (three shells found in
the Depository at the window where numerous witnesses saw a weapon or a
gunman, and two large fragments found on the floor of the limo),
o - the known location of the third victim of the assassination (James
Tague).
o - the review by the HSCA forensic pathology panel which confirmed the
autopsy finding of a shot from behind striking the President in the head,
Now you are saying nothing. WHERE in the head?
You are a loonie if you think the HSCA agreed with the WC on WHERE the
bullet hit the head.
Hilarious. As is typical of a CT, you ignored six of the seven points I
made to quibble on one, and one that doesn't matter to the point I'm
making.
No, just me. Because I am used to your rambling and asking silly questions
that I have answered msny times.
Standard Marsh Dodgeball tactic.... "I already answered this". So how come
you never cite one of those many times you already answered it?
Post by Anthony Marsh
The only thing you now how to do is
attack. Never research.
I pointed out seven facts, you ignored six. That is not an attack. That's
an attempt to have a dialogue.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
It matters not where on the back of the head the bullet struck. What
No bullet hit the BACK of JFK's head. You start with a false premise. And
you can't even see that everyone disagreed anout where they place a bullet
hole.
Gee, the Autopsists and the Forensic Pathologists reached different
conclusions that you assert here.

Let me mull this over, should I go with the internet poster with no known
medical credentials and trust his judgment about the x-rays, autopsy
photos and testimony, or go with the three autopsists who had the body in
front of them when they performed the autopsy, and the HSCA forensic
pathology panel who between them performed over 100,000 autopsies and
concluded from the x-rays, autopsy photos and testimony that the shots
came from above and behind the President?

Oh this is soooo tough to decide. Give me some time to mull it over, okay?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
matters is both groups found no evidence of a shot from the side, and
Not my problem that tey were stupid.
This is the kind of cogent, well-reasoned and strongly supported argument
that makes your arguments so difficult to rebut. "Not my problem that they
were stupid". Is that something you copyrighted or can I borrow it?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
that's only part of the evidence indicating the shot came from behind
Them putting out false theories does not make them correct.
Another great example of how well you argue your points and support them
with evidence.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
(remember your conservation of momentum argument? You appear to have
forgotten that point already).
What do you mean? The fragment would have momenetum no matter where the
bullet came from.
The fragment wound up in front of the President location at the time he
was shot. What can we conclude from that about where the shot came from?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
The autopsy and the HSCA forensic panel indicate the bullet hit the
president in the back of the head. The witnesses saw a gunman or rifle
But they can't agree where and show the wound. that is your first clue
that they were wrong.
Your logic is silly. I already said that the acoustical evirence proves
3 shots from behind. But you need to study it in more deoth to find out
ehree each bullet went and ehat each hit. You can't do that.
GIGO. I keep the baby and throw out the bath water. You do the exact
opposite.
Post by Anthony Marsh
You just ASSuME what you know that you can't prove so that you won't be
asked to prove anything.
I pointed out the evidence above. You ignored six of the seven points I
advanced. You ignore them still.

The seventh you dismissed with no evidence produced to rebut it.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
behind the President. The Harper fragment was found forward of the
President. The Zapruder film shows the bulk of the ejecta from the
President's head going forward, conservation of momentum would blast the
ejecta forward ... etc. etc. In short, the evidence is wholly and entirely
consistent with a shooter behind the President hitting him in the back of
the head with a bullet.
Tony ignored this.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
To paraphrase you, you are a loonie if you think the HSCA forensic
pathology panel disagreeing with the autopsy doctors by a few inches on
where exactly on the back of the head the bullet struck the President
means he was shot on the right side of the head with a shot from the
knoll. That's the looniest position to take.
Tony ignored this.
Post by Anthony Marsh
You didn't even bother to read what W&A said.
Not a rebuttal to anything I said, and you can establish this assertion
exactly how?

I'd love to see your evidence that I "didn't even bother to read what W&A
said."

We both know you're blowing smoke.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
... And determine that is evidence for a shot striking the President in
the head from anywhere except the sixth floor southeast corner window of
the Depository?
It wouldn't be a very "PROFESSIONAL, RESPONSIBLE, SCIENTIFIC study" if it
concluded the shot came from anywhere except Oswald's weapon fired from
the sixth floor SE corner window of the Depository, would it?
Tony ignored this, as did the original poster it was intended for, Ramon.

Hank

Anthony Marsh
2020-09-17 13:47:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Piotr Mancini
Post by Anthony Marsh
Well, I hate to bother you with physics, but it's called Conservation of
Momentum. When the skull fragment was ejected from the head it was flying
to the left and slightly forward. It continued going left and forward
until it hit the ground.
ALL the factors must be included in a PROFESSIONAL, RESPONSIBLE,
SCIENTIFIC study.
I did? What's your point?
If I say that gravity exists you would object just to be objectional.
Post by Piotr Mancini
As they said in The Six Million Dollar Man: "We have the Science, we have
the Technology"
The metal corset?
You mean the cloth corset with metal stays. They did not stop the bullet.
It hit too high above the corset. So, what is your point?
Post by Piotr Mancini
Used by BOTH sides to bolster their pre-ordained results based on
blah-blah and fertilizer.
This is a fascinating discovery.
"Breaking News: Two more authors of JFK studies are in contact"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.assassination.jfk/e53sivortZk/ePwgrS9sAQAJ
"On the Equivalence of Numerical Studies"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.assassination.jfk/1cNqMzJiNGA/GwaPyJVJAQAJ
Nick Nalli, PhD, the author of the only possible explanation left for the
VBS produced by a shot coming from 6 floors above, behind the victim, had
NO IDEA about FEA/CFD. His work has zero graphics, let alone video. He
liked my/your/our YouTube Channel.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLof8jFzqbDPJIiEREC5GipycH-M6OsSP3
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BydXldbRY__vRUtNWTNTQTZSQzg
Nick Nalli wants to talk, and he is not the only one.
We Engineers and Scientists tend to be honest. Some, brutally honest.
Lawyers are liars. Not unlike Spooks, esquires are trained to lie.
I see a lot of bullshit, but no point.
Did you misspell your alias and it's supposed to be "No Point"?
Post by Piotr Mancini
-Ramon
JFK Numbers
piotr....@gmail.com
2020-09-19 01:42:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Piotr Mancini
The metal corset?
You mean the cloth corset with metal stays. They did not stop the bullet.
It hit too high above the corset. So, what is your point?
My point is that ALL the factors must be included in a PROFESSIONAL,
RESPONSIBLE, SCIENTIFIC study.

Those studies are so complex and computationally intensive that they are
broken down into increasingly detailed simulations. A point is reached
with virtuality meets reality.

My advisors tell me that it is best to begin simulating a shot (a) in 2
dimensions, (b) empty cranium and (3) head alone.

See some preliminary work here:

"Simulation of Frontal Shot: 1 - Minimalistic"


Then, notice how a floating cranium alone is considered here:


The craniums are here:
http://www.jfknumbers.org/ich-bin-ein-berliner/osseus-models/craniums

Waiting their turn, spines:
http://www.jfknumbers.org/ich-bin-ein-berliner/osseus-models/skeletons

and finally, corsets
[as usual, work in progress]

-Ramon
JFK Numbers
Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
2020-09-16 16:41:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Where was the Harper fragment found, Ramon? Was it behind the limo, as you
originally claimed, or was it forward and to the left (south) of the
President at the time the President was shot, as the FBI report of William
Harper and his uncle claims?
Why are you avoiding the facts here?
Remember, Garbage in, Garbage out.
Hank
Well, I hate to bother you with physics, but it's called Conservation of
Momentum. When the skull fragment was ejected from the head it was flying
to the left and slightly forward. It continued going left and forward
until it hit the ground.
Yes, that's *exactly* my point. Thanks for confirming you understand it.

The bullet came from behind and drove the skull fragment forward of the
limo and slightly to the left. It traveled roughly the same path as the
lead core of the bullet that struck the skull and went on to strike the
curb and then James Tague.

Thanks for pointing out that Newtonian physics (conservation of momentum) establishes the shooter was behind the limo for the head shot.

The physics here agrees with:

o - the Zapruder film (which shows the massive explosion out the front of
the head),

o - the Dealey Plaza witnesses like Zapruder and the Newmans who put the
damage to the right front of the President's head.

o - the autopsy results (which concluded the shot which struck the
President in the head came from behind),

o - the HSCA Forensic Pathology Panel (which affirmed the findings of the
autopsy),

o - the eyewitnesses (numerous ones saw a gunman or a weapon sticking out
of the sixth floor window of the TSBD),

o - the ballistic evidence (3 shells, two fragments and one nearly whole
bullet were found that were fired from - to the exclusion of all other
weapons in the world - Oswald's rifle, found in the TSBD),

o - fingerprints on the paper bag in the corner establish Oswald brought
the weapon to the Depository and took it out of the bag and assembled that
weapon near the sniper's nest window,

o - fingerprints on the trigger guard of the weapon found on the sixth
floor establish Oswald fired the weapon from the sniper's nest,

o - and the palmprint on the box in that sniper's nest corner establish he
probably assembled the weapon with a dime while sitting on that box (and
possibly fired from a sitting position on that box).

Consilience. Try understanding what the word means.

The facts of the case establish the shooter was behind the President.

The conspiracy mythology of the case - as noted by Ramon in his initial
post here - is that the Harper fragment landed "meters behind the limo".
As I know and you admit, Ramon cited the false CT mythology. He got it
completely wrong. Thanks for acknowledging that.

Hank
Anthony Marsh
2020-09-17 13:47:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Where was the Harper fragment found, Ramon? Was it behind the limo, as you
originally claimed, or was it forward and to the left (south) of the
President at the time the President was shot, as the FBI report of William
Harper and his uncle claims?
Why are you avoiding the facts here?
Remember, Garbage in, Garbage out.
Hank
Well, I hate to bother you with physics, but it's called Conservation of
Momentum. When the skull fragment was ejected from the head it was flying
to the left and slightly forward. It continued going left and forward
until it hit the ground.
Yes, that's *exactly* my point. Thanks for confirming you understand it.
The bullet came from behind and drove the skull fragment forward of the
limo and slightly to the left. It traveled roughly the same path as the
lead core of the bullet that struck the skull and went on to strike the
curb and then James Tague.
Thanks for pointing out that Newtonian physics (conservation of momentum) establishes the shooter was behind the limo for the head shot.
o - the Zapruder film (which shows the massive explosion out the front of
the head),
o - the Dealey Plaza witnesses like Zapruder and the Newmans who put the
damage to the right front of the President's head.
Now you are making my case for me. Never rely on witnesses.
They might say conspiracy.
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
o - the autopsy results (which concluded the shot which struck the
President in the head came from behind),
No, and you know thst the WC diagrams are a lie.
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
o - the HSCA Forensic Pathology Panel (which affirmed the findings of the
autopsy),
Wrong. They pinted out the errors of the autopsy.
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
o - the eyewitnesses (numerous ones saw a gunman or a weapon sticking out
of the sixth floor window of the TSBD),
None. The acoustical evidence proves that 3 shots were fired from the open
sixth floor window. So you have to dismiss it because it is science.
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
o - the ballistic evidence (3 shells, two fragments and one nearly whole
bullet were found that were fired from - to the exclusion of all other
weapons in the world - Oswald's rifle, found in the TSBD),
o - fingerprints on the paper bag in the corner establish Oswald brought
the weapon to the Depository and took it out of the bag and assembled that
weapon near the sniper's nest window,
o - fingerprints on the trigger guard of the weapon found on the sixth
floor establish Oswald fired the weapon from the sniper's nest,
o - and the palmprint on the box in that sniper's nest corner establish he
probably assembled the weapon with a dime while sitting on that box (and
possibly fired from a sitting position on that box).
circumstantial evidence that SOMEONE was firing Oswald's rifle.
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Consilience. Try understanding what the word means.
Rush to judgment, Look it up.
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
The facts of the case establish the shooter was behind the President.
A shooter.
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
The conspiracy mythology of the case - as noted by Ramon in his initial
Forget Ranon whatever. Look to SCIENCE.
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
post here - is that the Harper fragment landed "meters behind the limo".
As I know and you admit, Ramon cited the false CT mythology. He got it
completely wrong. Thanks for acknowledging that.
Hank
Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
2020-09-17 20:17:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Where was the Harper fragment found, Ramon? Was it behind the limo, as you
originally claimed, or was it forward and to the left (south) of the
President at the time the President was shot, as the FBI report of William
Harper and his uncle claims?
Why are you avoiding the facts here?
Remember, Garbage in, Garbage out.
Hank
Well, I hate to bother you with physics, but it's called Conservation of
Momentum. When the skull fragment was ejected from the head it was flying
to the left and slightly forward. It continued going left and forward
until it hit the ground.
Yes, that's *exactly* my point. Thanks for confirming you understand it.
The bullet came from behind and drove the skull fragment forward of the
limo and slightly to the left. It traveled roughly the same path as the
lead core of the bullet that struck the skull and went on to strike the
curb and then James Tague.
Thanks for pointing out that Newtonian physics (conservation of momentum) establishes the shooter was behind the limo for the head shot.
o - the Zapruder film (which shows the massive explosion out the front of
the head),
You ignored this, and you have to ignore it to make your point below.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
o - the Dealey Plaza witnesses like Zapruder and the Newmans who put the
damage to the right front of the President's head.
Now you are making my case for me. Never rely on witnesses.
They might say conspiracy.
The witnesses here are confirming what we ourselves see in the Zapruder
film. They affirm the authenticity of the film and establish the essential
conclusions of the autopsists and the HSCA Forensic Pathology Panel (FPP)
and affirm the authenticity of the extant autopsy materials.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
o - the autopsy results (which concluded the shot which struck the
President in the head came from behind),
No, and you know thst the WC diagrams are a lie.
And there's the logical fallacy of a red herring. I mentioned Warren
Commission diagrams not at all. You're changing the subject because you
cannot dispute what I said. Those WC diagrams were meant as an visual aid,
weren't drawn to scale, and didn't use the photographs or the x-rays as
source materials, just Humes meager wound descriptions.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
o - the HSCA Forensic Pathology Panel (which affirmed the findings of the
autopsy),
Wrong. They pinted out the errors of the autopsy.
They pointed out the errors of the autopsy and affirmed the findings of
the autopsy -- two shots, both hitting the President from above and
behind, one striking the President in the upper back and exiting the
throat, and the other hitting the President in the back of the head,
fragmenting, and exiting the top/right-side of the head.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
o - the eyewitnesses (numerous ones saw a gunman or a weapon sticking out
of the sixth floor window of the TSBD),
None. The acoustical evidence proves that 3 shots were fired from the open
sixth floor window. So you have to dismiss it because it is science.
Nope. You're relying on pseudo-science. Numerous studies have shown the
inadequacies of the HSCA acoustic studies.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
o - the ballistic evidence (3 shells, two fragments and one nearly whole
bullet were found that were fired from - to the exclusion of all other
weapons in the world - Oswald's rifle, found in the TSBD),
And ignored by you.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
o - fingerprints on the paper bag in the corner establish Oswald brought
the weapon to the Depository and took it out of the bag and assembled that
weapon near the sniper's nest window,
And ignored by you.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
o - fingerprints on the trigger guard of the weapon found on the sixth
floor establish Oswald fired the weapon from the sniper's nest,
And ignored by you.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
o - and the palmprint on the box in that sniper's nest corner establish he
probably assembled the weapon with a dime while sitting on that box (and
possibly fired from a sitting position on that box).
circumstantial evidence that SOMEONE was firing Oswald's rifle.
Aboslutely! The palmprint was ** OSWALD'S *. That's circumstantial
evidence that Oswald was the SOMEONE firing Oswald's rifle.

We're making real progress here. Thank you for that admission!
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Consilience. Try understanding what the word means.
Rush to judgment, Look it up.
I've read it numerous times. It's a tissue of lies. But your reference to
Lane's book is telling. You do appear stuck in the late 1960s with many of
your arguments, even though most of those arguments you advance can be
rebutted with the reading of the evidence from the Warren Commission's 26
Volumes of Hearings and Evidence.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
The facts of the case establish the shooter was behind the President.
A shooter.
Hilarious. We know more than that. It was a shooter using Oswald's rifle,
leaving behind Oswald's fingerprints on the trigger guard, and Oswald's
prints on boxes at the scene. How many people can you name that could do
that?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
The conspiracy mythology of the case - as noted by Ramon in his initial
post here - is that the Harper fragment landed "meters behind the limo".
Forget Ranon whatever. Look to SCIENCE.
I did. That's why I concluded Oswald is guilty. The consilience of
evidence indicates a lone shooter who resembled Oswald, in the Depository
firing Oswald's weapon, hitting the President from behind twice, leaving
behind Oswald's fingerprints on the trigger guard.

That's what the consilience of the evidence indicates to me.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
As I know and you admit, Ramon cited the false CT mythology. He got it
completely wrong. Thanks for acknowledging that.
John Corbett
2020-09-17 20:17:31 UTC
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Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Where was the Harper fragment found, Ramon? Was it behind the limo, as you
originally claimed, or was it forward and to the left (south) of the
President at the time the President was shot, as the FBI report of William
Harper and his uncle claims?
Why are you avoiding the facts here?
Remember, Garbage in, Garbage out.
Hank
Well, I hate to bother you with physics, but it's called Conservation of
Momentum. When the skull fragment was ejected from the head it was flying
to the left and slightly forward. It continued going left and forward
until it hit the ground.
Yes, that's *exactly* my point. Thanks for confirming you understand it.
The bullet came from behind and drove the skull fragment forward of the
limo and slightly to the left. It traveled roughly the same path as the
lead core of the bullet that struck the skull and went on to strike the
curb and then James Tague.
Thanks for pointing out that Newtonian physics (conservation of momentum) establishes the shooter was behind the limo for the head shot.
o - the Zapruder film (which shows the massive explosion out the front of
the head),
o - the Dealey Plaza witnesses like Zapruder and the Newmans who put the
damage to the right front of the President's head.
Now you are making my case for me.
Somebody needs to because you are doing such a piss poor job of it.
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