Mexico City

Post by ajohnstone
An interesting article on the supposed Oswald - Contreras meeting.
https://theconversation.com/jfk-conspiracy-theory-is-debunked-in-mexico-57-years-after-kennedy-assassination-148138

Contreras's claim about meeting Oswald in MC came from Anthony Summer's
book on the assassination and from an interview he did with Contreras.
That, I believe, is the only source for this story. But Gerald Posner
essentially (for me) dismantled the allegations in his book "Case Closed."
For example, Contreras was interviewed later (in 1986; the Summers
interview was in 1978) and said that his alleged meeting with Oswald took
place in 1959 or 1960. Oswald was still in the USSR at that time.
Contreras also said that he wasn't even living in MC in 1963. And
Contreras didn't speak English; Oswald didn't speak Spanish. So how did
Oswald tell Contreras about himself?

Steven M. Galbraith

2020-11-21 20:42:10 UTC

Correction: Contreras also told the FBI in an interview, cited by Summers
in his book (he later interviewed Contreras), about this alleged meeting
with Oswald. And Contreras' allegation was included in the so-called Lopez
report released by the HSCA.

FWIW, that's here:
https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/lopezrpt_2003/html/LopezRpt_0249a.htm

19efppp

2020-11-22 04:32:38 UTC

Nelson Delgado said he taught Oswald Spanish, even though the FBI tried to
change his mind. The FBI even told Delgado that he could not speak
Spanish. Why is this so important to the Official Storytellers that Oswald
could not speak Spanish? Three of the CIA intercepted Russian Embassy
calls, supposedly by Oswald, are in Spanish, "poor Spanish," the FBI will
be happy to hear, but still Spanish.

Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)

2020-11-23 01:21:21 UTC

Nelson Delgado said he taught Oswald Spanish, even though the FBI tried to
change his mind.

The testimony of Delgado is here:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/delgado.htm

He said Oswald knew common phrases but couldn't carry on a conversation
beyond that.
== QUOTE ==
Mr. DELGADO - Yes; in the beginning of 1959. He arrived at our outfit. I
didn't take no particular notice of him at the time, but later on we
had--we started talking, and we got to know each other quite well. This
is all before Christmas, before I took my leave.
Mr. LIEBELER - This was in 1957 or 1958?

Mr. DELGADO - 1958. And we had basic interests. He liked Spanish, and he
talked to me for a while in Spanish or tried to, and since nobody
bothered, you know--I was kind of a loner, myself, you know. I didn't
associate with too many people.

...

Mr. DELGADO - ... He kept on asking me questions like "how can a person in
his category, an English person, get with a Cuban, you know, people, be
part of that revolution movement?"
I told him, to begin with, you have got to be trusted--right--in any
country you go to you have got to be trusted, so the best way to be
trusted is to know their language, know their customs, you know; so he
started applying himself to Spanish, he started studying. He bought
himself a dictionary, a Spanish-American dictionary. He would come to me
and we would speak in Spanish. You know, not great sentences but enough.
After a while he got to talk to me, you know, in Spanish.

Mr. LIEBELER - How much of a fluency did Oswald develop in Spanish?

Mr. DELGADO - He didn't acquire too much. He could, speak a common
Spanish, like "How are you? I am doing fine. Where are you going? Which
way is this? Common stuff, you know, everyday stuff/ As far as getting in
involved political argument, say, or like debate of some sort, he couldn't
hold his own.

Mr. LIEBELER - He couldn't speak Spanish well enough to do something like
that?
Mr. DELGADO - No.
== UNQUOTE ==

Post by 19efppp
The FBI even told Delgado that he could not speak
Spanish.

Delgado's explanation involves misunderstanding, not malfeasance:
He felt the FBI agent knew "book Spanish", not "street Spanish", and that the agent looked down on him because he didn't speak "book Spanish".
== QUOTE ==
Mr. LIEBELER - He spoke Spanish?
Mr. DELGADO - He spoke Castilian Spanish.
Mr. LIEBELER - Castilian Spanish?
Mr. DELGADO - Right.
Mr. LIEBELER - That is a different kind of Spanish from the kind you speak?
Mr. DELGADO - All right. He could go out here in New York City and go down in Spanish Harlem and he would be lost. I mean it would be all right if 90 percent of the Spanish people down there were college graduates, they could understand him. They don't speak that type of Spanish there, nor do they speak it in a lot of other Spanish countries. It's like speaking the English as spoken in England, you know. You can't expect a man from Georgia to try and understand a man from England the way he speaks pure English.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you have difficulty in understanding this agent when he spoke to you in Spanish?
Mr. DELGADO - No. See, I took it in high school. But he had difficulty in interpreting my Spanish.
Mr. LIEBELER - So you think he was likely to have gotten the opinion that you weren't very proficient in Spanish?
Mr. DELGADO - Right. But I would be willing to challenge him if he and I go down to Spanish Harlem and see who gets across faster.
...
Mr. LIEBELER - You are talking now about the interview when the Spanish-speaking agent was present?
Mr. DELGADO - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Which one of them kept badgering you?
Mr. DELGADO - The Spanish agent.
Mr. LIEBELER - What was he badgering you about?
Mr. DELGADO - He kept on sitting--he'd been talking, he'd been looking at me, doing this [indicating], you know, and he was sitting just about where this gentleman is now, and I'd been looking out of the corner of my eye, because I couldn't concentrate on what he was saying because he kept staring at me, and he was giving me a case of jitters, you know.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you have the impression that he didn't believe you?
Mr. DELGADO - Yes. But I told him, it's all right in the textbooks, that's fine, you know, but my theory, my way is you are not going to get anything--I mean the majority of the stuff out of books, you have got to apply yourself on the outside; and he may have gotten an A in Spanish, and may write in--be able to decipher anything in Spanish into English, which is fine, as long as he stays in the lower court, you know, where they are going to speak high Spanish, but when you go to mingle with the people and speak their language, you know, don't go in there with a college Spanish, because, to begin with, they are going to tell right off, you know, well, this guy is a highfalutin fellow, you know, They are not going to have anything to do with him.
You know, common Spanish is quite often overlooked, and that is where we make our mistake When we go---I think when we go abroad, because we try to speak Spanish the way El Camino Real tells you to speak Spanish, and that is not going to do.
If you come, a fellow comes and tries to be friends with you, and he is giving you all these thees and thous, first of all you are not going to hit it off right. Speak like they do. If they say damn; say damn, you know, get with them.
== UNQUOTE ==

Post by 19efppp
Why is this so important to the Official Storytellers that Oswald
could not speak Spanish?

The Warren Report said something different. Are they *NOT* the "Official Storytellers" of which you speak? If not, who is it who you are claiming are the "Official Storytellers"?

Warren Report, pages 674-675:
"Lee's record at Ridglea is not remarkable in any respect. In the fourth and fifth grades, he received mostly B's; in the sixth grade, B's and C's predominate.159 He received D's in both the fifth and sixth grades in spelling and arithmetic; in the fourth and sixth grades, C's are recorded for Spanish,160 which may account for his rudimentary familiarity with that language later on."

Page 687:
"Another marine, Nelson Delgado, met Oswald soon after the latter arrived at El Toro.415 They were about the same age and had similar interests; Oswald enjoyed trying to speak Spanish with Delgado, who spoke it fluently."

Page 733:
"In the course of the 20-hour bus trip, Oswald initiated two conversations with the Australian girls, during which he mentioned his visit to Russia and recommended the Hotel Cuba in Mexico City as a clean and cheap" hotel; he told them, apparently falsely, that he had stayed there on previous occasions. He said that when he had seen them board the bus with their heavy suitcases, he had been under the impression that they were Mexican and had therefore asked the man next to him how to say "How can I help you?" in Spanish. From this they inferred that Oswald did not speak Spanish, an impression which is shared by every witness who met Oswald on his trip and is supported by notations which he made on documents that he carried.1144 He got off the bus at every stop and ate large meals, always eating by himself; the girls thought he ate so much because he could not make himself understood in Spanish and had to order by pointing at the menu."

Post by 19efppp
Three of the CIA intercepted Russian Embassy
calls, supposedly by Oswald, are in Spanish, "poor Spanish," the FBI will
be happy to hear, but still Spanish.

Are you confusing the Cuban and Russian embassies?

Why would an English & Russian speaking Oswald, calling the Russian
Embassy, speak any Spanish, especially if he wasn't fluent in it? Why
would anyone impersonating Oswald do this? What does this accomplish?

I can understand someone speaking rudimentary Spanish when calling the
Cuban embassy, but speaking poor Spanish when calling the *Russian*
embassy?

How does that make any sense to you? It doesn't make any sense to me.

Hank

19efppp

2020-11-24 00:58:43 UTC

Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)

Nelson Delgado said he taught Oswald Spanish, even though the FBI tried to
change his mind.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/delgado.htm
He said Oswald knew common phrases but couldn't carry on a conversation
beyond that.
== QUOTE ==
Mr. DELGADO - Yes; in the beginning of 1959. He arrived at our outfit. I
didn't take no particular notice of him at the time, but later on we
had--we started talking, and we got to know each other quite well. This
is all before Christmas, before I took my leave.
Mr. LIEBELER - This was in 1957 or 1958?
Mr. DELGADO - 1958. And we had basic interests. He liked Spanish, and he
talked to me for a while in Spanish or tried to, and since nobody
bothered, you know--I was kind of a loner, myself, you know. I didn't
associate with too many people.
...
Mr. DELGADO - ... He kept on asking me questions like "how can a person in
his category, an English person, get with a Cuban, you know, people, be
part of that revolution movement?"
I told him, to begin with, you have got to be trusted--right--in any
country you go to you have got to be trusted, so the best way to be
trusted is to know their language, know their customs, you know; so he
started applying himself to Spanish, he started studying. He bought
himself a dictionary, a Spanish-American dictionary. He would come to me
and we would speak in Spanish. You know, not great sentences but enough.
After a while he got to talk to me, you know, in Spanish.
Mr. LIEBELER - How much of a fluency did Oswald develop in Spanish?
Mr. DELGADO - He didn't acquire too much. He could, speak a common
Spanish, like "How are you? I am doing fine. Where are you going? Which
way is this? Common stuff, you know, everyday stuff/ As far as getting in
involved political argument, say, or like debate of some sort, he couldn't
hold his own.
Mr. LIEBELER - He couldn't speak Spanish well enough to do something like
that?
Mr. DELGADO - No.
== UNQUOTE ==

Post by 19efppp
The FBI even told Delgado that he could not speak
Spanish.

He felt the FBI agent knew "book Spanish", not "street Spanish", and that the agent looked down on him because he didn't speak "book Spanish".
== QUOTE ==
Mr. LIEBELER - He spoke Spanish?
Mr. DELGADO - He spoke Castilian Spanish.
Mr. LIEBELER - Castilian Spanish?
Mr. DELGADO - Right.
Mr. LIEBELER - That is a different kind of Spanish from the kind you speak?
Mr. DELGADO - All right. He could go out here in New York City and go down in Spanish Harlem and he would be lost. I mean it would be all right if 90 percent of the Spanish people down there were college graduates, they could understand him. They don't speak that type of Spanish there, nor do they speak it in a lot of other Spanish countries. It's like speaking the English as spoken in England, you know. You can't expect a man from Georgia to try and understand a man from England the way he speaks pure English.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you have difficulty in understanding this agent when he spoke to you in Spanish?
Mr. DELGADO - No. See, I took it in high school. But he had difficulty in interpreting my Spanish.
Mr. LIEBELER - So you think he was likely to have gotten the opinion that you weren't very proficient in Spanish?
Mr. DELGADO - Right. But I would be willing to challenge him if he and I go down to Spanish Harlem and see who gets across faster.
...
Mr. LIEBELER - You are talking now about the interview when the Spanish-speaking agent was present?
Mr. DELGADO - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Which one of them kept badgering you?
Mr. DELGADO - The Spanish agent.
Mr. LIEBELER - What was he badgering you about?
Mr. DELGADO - He kept on sitting--he'd been talking, he'd been looking at me, doing this [indicating], you know, and he was sitting just about where this gentleman is now, and I'd been looking out of the corner of my eye, because I couldn't concentrate on what he was saying because he kept staring at me, and he was giving me a case of jitters, you know.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you have the impression that he didn't believe you?
Mr. DELGADO - Yes. But I told him, it's all right in the textbooks, that's fine, you know, but my theory, my way is you are not going to get anything--I mean the majority of the stuff out of books, you have got to apply yourself on the outside; and he may have gotten an A in Spanish, and may write in--be able to decipher anything in Spanish into English, which is fine, as long as he stays in the lower court, you know, where they are going to speak high Spanish, but when you go to mingle with the people and speak their language, you know, don't go in there with a college Spanish, because, to begin with, they are going to tell right off, you know, well, this guy is a highfalutin fellow, you know, They are not going to have anything to do with him.
You know, common Spanish is quite often overlooked, and that is where we make our mistake When we go---I think when we go abroad, because we try to speak Spanish the way El Camino Real tells you to speak Spanish, and that is not going to do.
If you come, a fellow comes and tries to be friends with you, and he is giving you all these thees and thous, first of all you are not going to hit it off right. Speak like they do. If they say damn; say damn, you know, get with them.
== UNQUOTE ==

Post by 19efppp
Why is this so important to the Official Storytellers that Oswald
could not speak Spanish?

The Warren Report said something different. Are they *NOT* the "Official Storytellers" of which you speak? If not, who is it who you are claiming are the "Official Storytellers"?
"Lee's record at Ridglea is not remarkable in any respect. In the fourth and fifth grades, he received mostly B's; in the sixth grade, B's and C's predominate.159 He received D's in both the fifth and sixth grades in spelling and arithmetic; in the fourth and sixth grades, C's are recorded for Spanish,160 which may account for his rudimentary familiarity with that language later on."
"Another marine, Nelson Delgado, met Oswald soon after the latter arrived at El Toro.415 They were about the same age and had similar interests; Oswald enjoyed trying to speak Spanish with Delgado, who spoke it fluently."
"In the course of the 20-hour bus trip, Oswald initiated two conversations with the Australian girls, during which he mentioned his visit to Russia and recommended the Hotel Cuba in Mexico City as a clean and cheap" hotel; he told them, apparently falsely, that he had stayed there on previous occasions. He said that when he had seen them board the bus with their heavy suitcases, he had been under the impression that they were Mexican and had therefore asked the man next to him how to say "How can I help you?" in Spanish. From this they inferred that Oswald did not speak Spanish, an impression which is shared by every witness who met Oswald on his trip and is supported by notations which he made on documents that he carried.1144 He got off the bus at every stop and ate large meals, always eating by himself; the girls thought he ate so much because he could not make himself understood in Spanish and had to order by pointing at the menu."

Post by 19efppp
Three of the CIA intercepted Russian Embassy
calls, supposedly by Oswald, are in Spanish, "poor Spanish," the FBI will
be happy to hear, but still Spanish.

Are you confusing the Cuban and Russian embassies?
Why would an English & Russian speaking Oswald, calling the Russian
Embassy, speak any Spanish, especially if he wasn't fluent in it? Why
would anyone impersonating Oswald do this? What does this accomplish?
I can understand someone speaking rudimentary Spanish when calling the
Cuban embassy, but speaking poor Spanish when calling the *Russian*
embassy?
How does that make any sense to you? It doesn't make any sense to me.
Hank

It's the Hydra again! Allow me to respond to just one of your snakes,
Dearie. When one is in a Spanish-speaking country, one tends to speak
Spanish, even when calling the Russian Embassy. Actually, it was FOUR
calls in Spanish to the RUSSIAN Embassy, supposedly by Oswald. Why don't
you do some real research? You spend all your energy carping, but never
try to understand anything. That's why you are not worth bothering with.
You're like an AI attack program. You're like Donald Trump trying to win
the election two weeks after he lost it. You don't care about the truth.
You just want to win.

Steven M. Galbraith

2020-11-25 21:03:34 UTC

Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)

Nelson Delgado said he taught Oswald Spanish, even though the FBI tried to
change his mind.

Post by 19efppp
The FBI even told Delgado that he could not speak
Spanish.

Post by 19efppp
Why is this so important to the Official Storytellers that Oswald
could not speak Spanish?

The Warren Report said something different. Are they *NOT* the "Official Storytellers" of which you speak? If not, who is it who you are claiming are the "Official Storytellers"?
"Lee's record at Ridglea is not remarkable in any respect. In the fourth and fifth grades, he received mostly B's; in the sixth grade, B's and C's predominate.159 He received D's in both the fifth and sixth grades in spelling and arithmetic; in the fourth and sixth grades, C's are recorded for Spanish,160 which may account for his rudimentary familiarity with that language later on."
"Another marine, Nelson Delgado, met Oswald soon after the latter arrived at El Toro.415 They were about the same age and had similar interests; Oswald enjoyed trying to speak Spanish with Delgado, who spoke it fluently."
"In the course of the 20-hour bus trip, Oswald initiated two conversations with the Australian girls, during which he mentioned his visit to Russia and recommended the Hotel Cuba in Mexico City as a clean and cheap" hotel; he told them, apparently falsely, that he had stayed there on previous occasions. He said that when he had seen them board the bus with their heavy suitcases, he had been under the impression that they were Mexican and had therefore asked the man next to him how to say "How can I help you?" in Spanish. From this they inferred that Oswald did not speak Spanish, an impression which is shared by every witness who met Oswald on his trip and is supported by notations which he made on documents that he carried.1144 He got off the bus at every stop and ate large meals, always eating by himself; the girls thought he ate so much because he could not make himself understood in Spanish and had to order by pointing at the menu."

Post by 19efppp
Three of the CIA intercepted Russian Embassy
calls, supposedly by Oswald, are in Spanish, "poor Spanish," the FBI will
be happy to hear, but still Spanish.

Are you confusing the Cuban and Russian embassies?
Why would an English & Russian speaking Oswald, calling the Russian
Embassy, speak any Spanish, especially if he wasn't fluent in it? Why
would anyone impersonating Oswald do this? What does this accomplish?
I can understand someone speaking rudimentary Spanish when calling the
Cuban embassy, but speaking poor Spanish when calling the *Russian*
embassy?
How does that make any sense to you? It doesn't make any sense to me.
Hank

Hank: On the intercepted calls (there were two) Oswald spoke what the CIA
translator (Boris Tarasoff) wrote on the transcript as "broken Russian."
In neither of the intercepted calls did he try to speak Spanish.

A transcript of the first call, originating from within the Cuban
consulate (and made by Duran), is here:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=5099

And the second call transcript is here:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=5965

Oswald's fluency in Spanish is relevant to the credibility of Contreras's
claim that he met Oswald when the two were in Mexico City. Contreras said
(in an interview with Anthony Summers) he was having lunch with his fellow
pro-Castro friends when Oswald walked up, introduced himself to them and
asked if they could help him get a visa to Cuba. Contreras said that
Oswald stayed with him and his group that day and night and next morning.
If Oswald couldn't speak Spanish and Contreras couldn't speak English (he
needed a translator when interviewed by Summers) then how did he learn all
of this? It's just a small point of course.

Anthony Marsh

2020-11-23 01:21:32 UTC

Because of the theory that Oswald had tried to penetrate Cuban Exile
camps and spy on them for Castro.

19efppp

2020-11-24 00:58:47 UTC

Because of the theory that Oswald had tried to penetrate Cuban Exile
camps and spy on them for Castro.

Even Odio has Leon not speaking Spanish. Maybe that's why the Official
Storytellers like to call the Odio episode kinda sorta credible, because
her Oswald does not speak Spanish. But only for that. Then they want you
to dismiss Odio as "meshugga," as the Thieving Cocksucker would say, if
Odio were Jewish. Was she ever asked whether she knew Jack Ruby?

19efppp

2020-11-24 00:58:51 UTC

Because of the theory that Oswald had tried to penetrate Cuban Exile
camps and spy on them for Castro.

Please forgive the additional post. I'm not used to getting relevant responses.

What difference should it make if Oswald could speak some Spanish? If I
could prove to Hank over there, that Oswald was fluent in Spanish,
Castilian and Delgadoan and all other dialects, what difference would it
make? None at all. Hank would just move the goalposts and carp about a
thousand other things.

But the FBI were not Internet Trolls. Why did they protest so much? Why
should it matter, really that Oswald could speak some Spanish? Lots of
people do. Unless they knew that Oswald really was infiltrating Cuban
groups for...somebody. Then it would matter. Then they might go to the
trouble of telling Delgado that he couldn't speak Spanish. When the lady
doth protest too much she reveals her guilt.

Anthony Marsh

2020-11-25 21:02:51 UTC

Because of the theory that Oswald had tried to penetrate Cuban Exile
camps and spy on them for Castro.

Not fluent. Not fluent in Russian. Not fluent in English.

Post by 19efppp
But the FBI were not Internet Trolls. Why did they protest so much? Why
should it matter, really that Oswald could speak some Spanish? Lots of
people do. Unless they knew that Oswald really was infiltrating Cuban
groups for...somebody. Then it would matter. Then they might go to the
trouble of telling Delgado that he couldn't speak Spanish. When the lady
doth protest too much she reveals her guilt.

They might want to learn as much as they could to look for clues.

19efppp

2020-11-26 23:39:49 UTC

Because of the theory that Oswald had tried to penetrate Cuban Exile
camps and spy on them for Castro.

Please forgive the additional post. I'm not used to getting relevant responses.
What difference should it make if Oswald could speak some Spanish? If I
could prove to Hank over there, that Oswald was fluent in Spanish,
Castilian and Delgadoan and all other dialects, what difference would it
make? None at all. Hank would just move the goalposts and carp about a
thousand other things.
But the FBI were not Internet Trolls. Why did they protest so much? Why
should it matter, really that Oswald could speak some Spanish? Lots of
people do. Unless they knew that Oswald really was infiltrating Cuban
groups for...somebody. Then it would matter. Then they might go to the
trouble of telling Delgado that he couldn't speak Spanish. When the lady
doth protest too much she reveals her guilt.

There were 9 calls which the official investigators seem to think came
from Oswald. This list is from some CIA document.

https://postimg.cc/WFv1JPnP

The calls in Spanish were very short and were noted elsewhere to be in
poor Spanish. There also seems to be at least one more call for which we
do not have a transcript, remembered by Mrs. Tarasoff, a long conversation
in which Oswald, in English, was requesting financial aid from the
Soviets, who were not interested in giving him aid. Winston Scott also
seemingly refers to this call. Note that the Spanish calls were interested
in a visa to get to Odessa. Scott relates that Oswald was trying to get to
the Crimea, which is not Odessa, but is close by. Scott also says that
Oswald cited a promise made by the Soviet Embassy in Washington about
getting the financial aid. This fits in nicely with something Oswald said
in the November 9 Embassy Letter. The key conversation is missing from the
record, OF COURSE! Angelton probably took it from Scott's safe after his
death. And of course fluent Russian speaker Oswald, in Mexico City can
speak only "terrible barely recognizable Russian." Even moronic Official
Storytellers should be able to notice that something ain't right here.

Anthony Marsh

2020-11-28 21:01:25 UTC

Because of the theory that Oswald had tried to penetrate Cuban Exile
camps and spy on them for Castro.

Please forgive the additional post. I'm not used to getting relevant responses.
What difference should it make if Oswald could speak some Spanish? If I

It would make it seem more plausible that Oswald did spy on the Cuban
Exile training camps.

Post by 19efppp
could prove to Hank over there, that Oswald was fluent in Spanish,
Castilian and Delgadoan and all other dialects, what difference would it
make? None at all. Hank would just move the goalposts and carp about a
thousand other things.
But the FBI were not Internet Trolls. Why did they protest so much? Why
should it matter, really that Oswald could speak some Spanish? Lots of
people do. Unless they knew that Oswald really was infiltrating Cuban
groups for...somebody. Then it would matter. Then they might go to the
trouble of telling Delgado that he couldn't speak Spanish. When the lady
doth protest too much she reveals her guilt.

There were 9 calls which the official investigators seem to think came
from Oswald. This list is from some CIA document.
https://postimg.cc/WFv1JPnP
The calls in Spanish were very short and were noted elsewhere to be in
poor Spanish. There also seems to be at least one more call for which we
do not have a transcript, remembered by Mrs. Tarasoff, a long conversation
in which Oswald, in English, was requesting financial aid from the
Soviets, who were not interested in giving him aid. Winston Scott also
seemingly refers to this call. Note that the Spanish calls were interested
in a visa to get to Odessa. Scott relates that Oswald was trying to get to
the Crimea, which is not Odessa, but is close by. Scott also says that
Oswald cited a promise made by the Soviet Embassy in Washington about
getting the financial aid. This fits in nicely with something Oswald said
in the November 9 Embassy Letter. The key conversation is missing from the
record, OF COURSE! Angelton probably took it from Scott's safe after his
death. And of course fluent Russian speaker Oswald, in Mexico City can
speak only "terrible barely recognizable Russian." Even moronic Official
Storytellers should be able to notice that something ain't right here.

19efppp

2020-11-29 20:52:14 UTC

Because of the theory that Oswald had tried to penetrate Cuban Exile
camps and spy on them for Castro.

Please forgive the additional post. I'm not used to getting relevant responses.
What difference should it make if Oswald could speak some Spanish? If I

It would make it seem more plausible that Oswald did spy on the Cuban
Exile training camps.

There were 9 calls which the official investigators seem to think came
from Oswald. This list is from some CIA document.
https://postimg.cc/WFv1JPnP
The calls in Spanish were very short and were noted elsewhere to be in
poor Spanish. There also seems to be at least one more call for which we
do not have a transcript, remembered by Mrs. Tarasoff, a long conversation
in which Oswald, in English, was requesting financial aid from the
Soviets, who were not interested in giving him aid. Winston Scott also
seemingly refers to this call. Note that the Spanish calls were interested
in a visa to get to Odessa. Scott relates that Oswald was trying to get to
the Crimea, which is not Odessa, but is close by. Scott also says that
Oswald cited a promise made by the Soviet Embassy in Washington about
getting the financial aid. This fits in nicely with something Oswald said
in the November 9 Embassy Letter. The key conversation is missing from the
record, OF COURSE! Angelton probably took it from Scott's safe after his
death. And of course fluent Russian speaker Oswald, in Mexico City can
speak only "terrible barely recognizable Russian." Even moronic Official
Storytellers should be able to notice that something ain't right here.

Yes. Oswald being able to speak some Spanish does make it seem more
plausible that Oswald might have been infiltrating something. But in the
context of what I was saying, what is the implication for the FBI's
treatment of Delgado, attempting to bully him into saying that he did not
teach Oswald to speak Spanish? Is it reasonable to think that the FBI
badgers witnesses who suggest something might be plausible? Doesn't it
imply that the FBI finds the plausibility to be some kind of threat which
must be stamped out? Why would plausibility be a threat, unless Oswald
really did infiltrate something? Mere plausibility can be ignored. For
example, the FBI did not try to convince Warren Caster that he did not
bring rifles into the TSBD 2 days before JFK was shot. They simply ignored
the plausible implication that one of those rifles could have been used in
the assassination. Since they, presumably, knew that Caster's rifles were
not so used, there was no need to bully Caster into saying that he did not
bring rifles into the building. But they did try to bully Delgado into
saying that he could not speak Spanish, when the implication was far
weaker than bringing rifles into the building. The FBI did not fear Warren
Caster's rifles, even though the president was supposedly shot from the
building. But they did fear Delgado's Spanish. They couldn't ignore that
because Oswald really did do something or other involving some
Spanish-speaking people, and they knew it.

Anthony Marsh

2020-11-22 21:29:36 UTC

Wow, like that's so important, man!
Does that mean that we can defintely rule out
Contreras as a conspirator?
Do you think that Oswald ever talked to anyone?

John Corbett

2020-11-21 01:04:22 UTC

This one sentence from the story stands out to me:

"But it’s more likely Mexico holds no hidden clues to
JFK’s assassination."

I've never understood why people have obsessed some much about Oswald's
Mexico City trip. I see no reason to believe it has any connection to the
assassination. It was just an episode in his life that preceded the final
episode without there being a connection between the two.

Anthony Marsh

2020-11-22 21:29:41 UTC