People Who Knew Oswald in Minsk

[John McAdams]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=SRRFE%2FRL&v=Wd-p1-GJw6Y

. . . believe there was a conspiracy (at least the ones that Radio
Free Europe interviewed do).
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Post by John McAdams
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=SRRFE%2FRL&v=Wd-p1-GJw6Y
. . . believe there was a conspiracy (at least the ones that Radio
Free Europe interviewed do).
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

Priscilla McMillan made a similar observation - not one about a conspiracy
- but about how the Oswald in Minsk simply was not the type of person who
would act so violently in the US.

As she wrote in a review of Peter Savodnik's book about Oswald's life in
Minsk, "The Interloper": [T]he anger and violence that were to
characterize Oswald’s behavior after his return to the United
States were barely visible during his time in Minsk." Savodnik argued that
the Oswald always saw himself as an outsider, as an "interloper" and when
he started seeing himself again as that outsider in the USSR he turned his
anger against it and left in fury. McMillan disagrees.

McMillan continues: "[Oswald] joined the Marine Corps (as did his
brothers) to reject his mother, went to Soviet Russia to reject his
country, and returned to the United States to reject the Soviet Union. He
had never had it so good as in Minsk, and still he left. Back in the
United States, he sank into anger and despair and began, as he had done
only three or four times in Russia, to beat Marina."

Oswald greatly changed when he returned from the USSR. That the people who
knew him in Minsk couldn't imagine him killing JFK makes sense.

[John Corbett]

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by John McAdams
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=SRRFE%2FRL&v=Wd-p1-GJw6Y
. . . believe there was a conspiracy (at least the ones that Radio
Free Europe interviewed do).
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

Priscilla McMillan made a similar observation - not one about a conspiracy
- but about how the Oswald in Minsk simply was not the type of person who
would act so violently in the US.
As she wrote in a review of Peter Savodnik's book about Oswald's life in
Minsk, "The Interloper": [T]he anger and violence that were to
characterize Oswald’s behavior after his return to the United
States were barely visible during his time in Minsk." Savodnik argued that
the Oswald always saw himself as an outsider, as an "interloper" and when
he started seeing himself again as that outsider in the USSR he turned his
anger against it and left in fury. McMillan disagrees.
McMillan continues: "[Oswald] joined the Marine Corps (as did his
brothers) to reject his mother, went to Soviet Russia to reject his
country, and returned to the United States to reject the Soviet Union. He
had never had it so good as in Minsk, and still he left. Back in the
United States, he sank into anger and despair and began, as he had done
only three or four times in Russia, to beat Marina."
Oswald greatly changed when he returned from the USSR. That the people who
knew him in Minsk couldn't imagine him killing JFK makes sense.

I think it's safe to say Oswald didn't just wake up one morning and decide
he was going to shoot Walker. Whatever was going on inside his head had
probably been building for years. We all have our guesses as to what
motivated Oswald to become an assassin. Mine is he was just a pissed off
little loser. He was born into a bad situation and everything he did from
his teen years to adulthood was aimed at trying to improve his lot in
life. First he joined the Marines. When they didn't work, he emigrated to
the Soviet Union hoping to find a Utopia where he could be someone of
importance. He ended up a laborer in a radio factory. Disillusioned, he
returned to the US with a young wife. He continued to work at menial jobs
while his home life was crumbling. All of this made him bitter and he saw
assassination as a way of becoming someone of significance. He failed at
that too. After missing Walker, he moved to New Orleans and opened a
chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. All that did was bring him
more trouble. He returned to Dallas and then separated from his pregnant
wife. He saw Cuba as possibly a place where he might finally find some
happiness but when that door closed, he became even angrier. Then one day
he read in the newspaper that the President of the United States was going
to visit his city and ride right past his work place in a slow moving open
top car. For him that must have been like hitting the lottery. He was
dealt a chance to become somebody important. Unfortunately for the rest of
us, he picked a bad time to finally succeed at something in his life.

As I said at the beginning, this is all guesswork, but it's my best guess.

[John McAdams]

On 22 Jan 2021 18:43:01 -0000, "Steve M. Galbraith"

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by John McAdams
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=SRRFE%2FRL&v=Wd-p1-GJw6Y
. . . believe there was a conspiracy (at least the ones that Radio
Free Europe interviewed do).

Priscilla McMillan made a similar observation - not one about a conspiracy
- but about how the Oswald in Minsk simply was not the type of person who
would act so violently in the US.
As she wrote in a review of Peter Savodnik's book about Oswald's life in
Minsk, "The Interloper": [T]he anger and violence that were to
characterize Oswald’s behavior after his return to the United
States were barely visible during his time in Minsk." Savodnik argued that
the Oswald always saw himself as an outsider, as an "interloper" and when
he started seeing himself again as that outsider in the USSR he turned his
anger against it and left in fury. McMillan disagrees.
McMillan continues: "[Oswald] joined the Marine Corps (as did his
brothers) to reject his mother, went to Soviet Russia to reject his
country, and returned to the United States to reject the Soviet Union. He
had never had it so good as in Minsk, and still he left.

Add to that the fact that in the late 50s, things American had
considerable prestige in Belarus, and the USSR generally, among the
younger crowd.

So Oswald was assumed to be rather sophisticated and worldly. At
least initially.

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Post by John McAdams
On 22 Jan 2021 18:43:01 -0000, "Steve M. Galbraith"

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by John McAdams
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=SRRFE%2FRL&v=Wd-p1-GJw6Y
. . . believe there was a conspiracy (at least the ones that Radio
Free Europe interviewed do).

Priscilla McMillan made a similar observation - not one about a conspiracy
- but about how the Oswald in Minsk simply was not the type of person who
would act so violently in the US.
As she wrote in a review of Peter Savodnik's book about Oswald's life in
Minsk, "The Interloper": [T]he anger and violence that were to
characterize Oswald’s behavior after his return to the United
States were barely visible during his time in Minsk." Savodnik argued that
the Oswald always saw himself as an outsider, as an "interloper" and when
he started seeing himself again as that outsider in the USSR he turned his
anger against it and left in fury. McMillan disagrees.
McMillan continues: "[Oswald] joined the Marine Corps (as did his
brothers) to reject his mother, went to Soviet Russia to reject his
country, and returned to the United States to reject the Soviet Union. He
had never had it so good as in Minsk, and still he left.

Add to that the fact that in the late 50s, things American had
considerable prestige in Belarus, and the USSR generally, among the
younger crowd.
So Oswald was assumed to be rather sophisticated and worldly. At
least initially.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

Yes, initially Oswald was viewed, especially by women, as an intriguing
person, a "mysterious" American. Mailer recounted how when he was
introduced to the workers at the factory that they all came up to him to
talk, they wanted to meet this American figure. They wanted to know if
Americans owned cows or pigs. But they couldn't communicate with him (and
he with them) so they would say "Moo moo" and "Oink oink." Oswald laughed
at the exchange. But over time they grew bored with him; and him with them
and Minsk.

Mailer quotes from several of the Belarus KGB agents who when Oswald
finally left said, "Good riddance." They were tired having to follow him;
their fear was that he would do something to draw attention to themselves.
Many of them had matured during the Stalin years where you learned to be
quiet, do you job, and not draw attention to yourself. They were worried
about Oswald doing just that.

[John McAdams]

On 23 Jan 2021 04:09:06 -0000, "Steve M. Galbraith"

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by John McAdams
On 22 Jan 2021 18:43:01 -0000, "Steve M. Galbraith"

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by John McAdams
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=SRRFE%2FRL&v=Wd-p1-GJw6Y
. . . believe there was a conspiracy (at least the ones that Radio
Free Europe interviewed do).

Priscilla McMillan made a similar observation - not one about a conspiracy
- but about how the Oswald in Minsk simply was not the type of person who
would act so violently in the US.
As she wrote in a review of Peter Savodnik's book about Oswald's life in
Minsk, "The Interloper": [T]he anger and violence that were to
characterize Oswald’s behavior after his return to the United
States were barely visible during his time in Minsk." Savodnik argued that
the Oswald always saw himself as an outsider, as an "interloper" and when
he started seeing himself again as that outsider in the USSR he turned his
anger against it and left in fury. McMillan disagrees.
McMillan continues: "[Oswald] joined the Marine Corps (as did his
brothers) to reject his mother, went to Soviet Russia to reject his
country, and returned to the United States to reject the Soviet Union. He
had never had it so good as in Minsk, and still he left.

Add to that the fact that in the late 50s, things American had
considerable prestige in Belarus, and the USSR generally, among the
younger crowd.
So Oswald was assumed to be rather sophisticated and worldly. At
least initially.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

Yes, initially Oswald was viewed, especially by women, as an intriguing
person, a "mysterious" American. Mailer recounted how when he was
introduced to the workers at the factory that they all came up to him to
talk, they wanted to meet this American figure. They wanted to know if
Americans owned cows or pigs. But they couldn't communicate with him (and
he with them) so they would say "Moo moo" and "Oink oink." Oswald laughed
at the exchange. But over time they grew bored with him; and him with them
and Minsk.
Mailer quotes from several of the Belarus KGB agents who when Oswald
finally left said, "Good riddance." They were tired having to follow him;
their fear was that he would do something to draw attention to themselves.
Many of them had matured during the Stalin years where you learned to be
quiet, do you job, and not draw attention to yourself. They were worried
about Oswald doing just that.

I don't remember much about the Mailer book, but I do remember that
the KGB surveilled Oswald in excruciating detail.

Which suggests to me that Minsk was not a center of Cold War intrigue.
The probably had nothing better to do.

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Post by John McAdams
On 23 Jan 2021 04:09:06 -0000, "Steve M. Galbraith"

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by John McAdams
On 22 Jan 2021 18:43:01 -0000, "Steve M. Galbraith"

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by John McAdams
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=SRRFE%2FRL&v=Wd-p1-GJw6Y
. . . believe there was a conspiracy (at least the ones that Radio
Free Europe interviewed do).

Priscilla McMillan made a similar observation - not one about a conspiracy
- but about how the Oswald in Minsk simply was not the type of person who
would act so violently in the US.
As she wrote in a review of Peter Savodnik's book about Oswald's life in
Minsk, "The Interloper": [T]he anger and violence that were to
characterize Oswald’s behavior after his return to the United
States were barely visible during his time in Minsk." Savodnik argued that
the Oswald always saw himself as an outsider, as an "interloper" and when
he started seeing himself again as that outsider in the USSR he turned his
anger against it and left in fury. McMillan disagrees.
McMillan continues: "[Oswald] joined the Marine Corps (as did his
brothers) to reject his mother, went to Soviet Russia to reject his
country, and returned to the United States to reject the Soviet Union. He
had never had it so good as in Minsk, and still he left.

Add to that the fact that in the late 50s, things American had
considerable prestige in Belarus, and the USSR generally, among the
younger crowd.
So Oswald was assumed to be rather sophisticated and worldly. At
least initially.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

Yes, initially Oswald was viewed, especially by women, as an intriguing
person, a "mysterious" American. Mailer recounted how when he was
introduced to the workers at the factory that they all came up to him to
talk, they wanted to meet this American figure. They wanted to know if
Americans owned cows or pigs. But they couldn't communicate with him (and
he with them) so they would say "Moo moo" and "Oink oink." Oswald laughed
at the exchange. But over time they grew bored with him; and him with them
and Minsk.
Mailer quotes from several of the Belarus KGB agents who when Oswald
finally left said, "Good riddance." They were tired having to follow him;
their fear was that he would do something to draw attention to themselves.
Many of them had matured during the Stalin years where you learned to be
quiet, do you job, and not draw attention to yourself. They were worried
about Oswald doing just that.

I don't remember much about the Mailer book, but I do remember that
the KGB surveilled Oswald in excruciating detail.
Which suggests to me that Minsk was not a center of Cold War intrigue.
The probably had nothing better to do.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

When he first arrived they monitored him like Trotsky returned, 24/7 (this
is one of the issues with Nosenko's account; he says it was off-and-on
monitoring while Mailer's account says it was round-the-clock). After a
period - a year or so - they got bored with him and concluded he was a
nobody. But they were worried about him doing something to cause an
international incident and draw attention to themselves. Mailer recounts
how the "night shift" crew would turn off their monitoring of the Oswalds
around 2/3 in the morning and just go home. In the McMillan book (I
believe) she quotes Marina as saying they knew their conversations were
being listened to so they would go outside on their little balcony to
discuss things they didn't want to be heard.

From Mailer: "There was something she [Marina] had never told anyone
before. It seemed irrelevant. Yet, before they left Russia, Lee took her
out on the balcony and asked her to try--before she quit here job at the
pharmacy: he said, Try to get some narcotics and bring them home. When she
told him she couldn't obtain such items legally - you have to sign for
everything - he said, "Can't you steal it?" She couldn't and she
wouldn't."

Yeltsin gave some KGB files to Clinton in 1998 but the Belarus files -
much more extensive reports - were held back.

Re Minsk: at the start of WWII it had a population of about 300,00.
Afterwards it was down to 50,000 (it had one of the largest Jewish ghettos
- about 100,000, only a handful survived). The city was almost completely
leveled by the war. Many of the people Mailer interviewed told him
unbelievable horror stories about what they and their parents went through
during those years.

[John Corbett]

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by John McAdams
On 23 Jan 2021 04:09:06 -0000, "Steve M. Galbraith"

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by John McAdams
On 22 Jan 2021 18:43:01 -0000, "Steve M. Galbraith"

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by John McAdams
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=SRRFE%2FRL&v=Wd-p1-GJw6Y
. . . believe there was a conspiracy (at least the ones that Radio
Free Europe interviewed do).

Priscilla McMillan made a similar observation - not one about a conspiracy
- but about how the Oswald in Minsk simply was not the type of person who
would act so violently in the US.
As she wrote in a review of Peter Savodnik's book about Oswald's life in
Minsk, "The Interloper": [T]he anger and violence that were to
characterize Oswald’s behavior after his return to the United
States were barely visible during his time in Minsk." Savodnik argued that
the Oswald always saw himself as an outsider, as an "interloper" and when
he started seeing himself again as that outsider in the USSR he turned his
anger against it and left in fury. McMillan disagrees.
McMillan continues: "[Oswald] joined the Marine Corps (as did his
brothers) to reject his mother, went to Soviet Russia to reject his
country, and returned to the United States to reject the Soviet Union. He
had never had it so good as in Minsk, and still he left.

Add to that the fact that in the late 50s, things American had
considerable prestige in Belarus, and the USSR generally, among the
younger crowd.
So Oswald was assumed to be rather sophisticated and worldly. At
least initially.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

Yes, initially Oswald was viewed, especially by women, as an intriguing
person, a "mysterious" American. Mailer recounted how when he was
introduced to the workers at the factory that they all came up to him to
talk, they wanted to meet this American figure. They wanted to know if
Americans owned cows or pigs. But they couldn't communicate with him (and
he with them) so they would say "Moo moo" and "Oink oink." Oswald laughed
at the exchange. But over time they grew bored with him; and him with them
and Minsk.
Mailer quotes from several of the Belarus KGB agents who when Oswald
finally left said, "Good riddance." They were tired having to follow him;
their fear was that he would do something to draw attention to themselves.
Many of them had matured during the Stalin years where you learned to be
quiet, do you job, and not draw attention to yourself. They were worried
about Oswald doing just that.

I don't remember much about the Mailer book, but I do remember that
the KGB surveilled Oswald in excruciating detail.
Which suggests to me that Minsk was not a center of Cold War intrigue.
The probably had nothing better to do.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

When he first arrived they monitored him like Trotsky returned, 24/7 (this
is one of the issues with Nosenko's account; he says it was off-and-on
monitoring while Mailer's account says it was round-the-clock). After a
period - a year or so - they got bored with him and concluded he was a
nobody. But they were worried about him doing something to cause an
international incident and draw attention to themselves. Mailer recounts
how the "night shift" crew would turn off their monitoring of the Oswalds
around 2/3 in the morning and just go home. In the McMillan book (I
believe) she quotes Marina as saying they knew their conversations were
being listened to so they would go outside on their little balcony to
discuss things they didn't want to be heard.
From Mailer: "There was something she [Marina] had never told anyone
before. It seemed irrelevant. Yet, before they left Russia, Lee took her
out on the balcony and asked her to try--before she quit here job at the
pharmacy: he said, Try to get some narcotics and bring them home. When she
told him she couldn't obtain such items legally - you have to sign for
everything - he said, "Can't you steal it?" She couldn't and she
wouldn't."
Yeltsin gave some KGB files to Clinton in 1998 but the Belarus files -
much more extensive reports - were held back.
Re Minsk: at the start of WWII it had a population of about 300,00.
Afterwards it was down to 50,000 (it had one of the largest Jewish ghettos
- about 100,000, only a handful survived). The city was almost completely
leveled by the war. Many of the people Mailer interviewed told him
unbelievable horror stories about what they and their parents went through
during those years.

It's only natural that both our intelligence agencies and Soviet's would
be suspicious of Oswald both when first emigrated to the USSR and when he
returned. I'll bet even the Soviets were wondering why the hell anyone
would want to emigrate TO the USSR. Eventually both sides figured out he
was probably nothing more than a screwball who didn't require special
attention. Unfortunately our agencies didn't know he was a dangerous
screwball. How could they have?

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by John Corbett

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by John McAdams
On 23 Jan 2021 04:09:06 -0000, "Steve M. Galbraith"

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by John McAdams
On 22 Jan 2021 18:43:01 -0000, "Steve M. Galbraith"

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by John McAdams
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=SRRFE%2FRL&v=Wd-p1-GJw6Y
. . . believe there was a conspiracy (at least the ones that Radio
Free Europe interviewed do).

Priscilla McMillan made a similar observation - not one about a conspiracy
- but about how the Oswald in Minsk simply was not the type of person who
would act so violently in the US.
As she wrote in a review of Peter Savodnik's book about Oswald's life in
Minsk, "The Interloper": [T]he anger and violence that were to
characterize Oswald???s behavior after his return to the United
States were barely visible during his time in Minsk." Savodnik argued that
the Oswald always saw himself as an outsider, as an "interloper" and when
he started seeing himself again as that outsider in the USSR he turned his
anger against it and left in fury. McMillan disagrees.
McMillan continues: "[Oswald] joined the Marine Corps (as did his
brothers) to reject his mother, went to Soviet Russia to reject his
country, and returned to the United States to reject the Soviet Union. He
had never had it so good as in Minsk, and still he left.

Add to that the fact that in the late 50s, things American had
considerable prestige in Belarus, and the USSR generally, among the
younger crowd.
So Oswald was assumed to be rather sophisticated and worldly. At
least initially.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

Yes, initially Oswald was viewed, especially by women, as an intriguing
person, a "mysterious" American. Mailer recounted how when he was
introduced to the workers at the factory that they all came up to him to
talk, they wanted to meet this American figure. They wanted to know if
Americans owned cows or pigs. But they couldn't communicate with him (and
he with them) so they would say "Moo moo" and "Oink oink." Oswald laughed
at the exchange. But over time they grew bored with him; and him with them
and Minsk.
Mailer quotes from several of the Belarus KGB agents who when Oswald
finally left said, "Good riddance." They were tired having to follow him;
their fear was that he would do something to draw attention to themselves.
Many of them had matured during the Stalin years where you learned to be
quiet, do you job, and not draw attention to yourself. They were worried
about Oswald doing just that.

I don't remember much about the Mailer book, but I do remember that
the KGB surveilled Oswald in excruciating detail.
Which suggests to me that Minsk was not a center of Cold War intrigue.
The probably had nothing better to do.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

When he first arrived they monitored him like Trotsky returned, 24/7 (this
is one of the issues with Nosenko's account; he says it was off-and-on
monitoring while Mailer's account says it was round-the-clock). After a
period - a year or so - they got bored with him and concluded he was a
nobody. But they were worried about him doing something to cause an
international incident and draw attention to themselves. Mailer recounts
how the "night shift" crew would turn off their monitoring of the Oswalds
around 2/3 in the morning and just go home. In the McMillan book (I
believe) she quotes Marina as saying they knew their conversations were
being listened to so they would go outside on their little balcony to
discuss things they didn't want to be heard.
From Mailer: "There was something she [Marina] had never told anyone
before. It seemed irrelevant. Yet, before they left Russia, Lee took her
out on the balcony and asked her to try--before she quit here job at the
pharmacy: he said, Try to get some narcotics and bring them home. When she
told him she couldn't obtain such items legally - you have to sign for
everything - he said, "Can't you steal it?" She couldn't and she
wouldn't."
Yeltsin gave some KGB files to Clinton in 1998 but the Belarus files -
much more extensive reports - were held back.
Re Minsk: at the start of WWII it had a population of about 300,00.
Afterwards it was down to 50,000 (it had one of the largest Jewish ghettos
- about 100,000, only a handful survived). The city was almost completely
leveled by the war. Many of the people Mailer interviewed told him
unbelievable horror stories about what they and their parents went through
during those years.

It's only natural that both our intelligence agencies and Soviet's would
be suspicious of Oswald both when first emigrated to the USSR and when he
returned. I'll bet even the Soviets were wondering why the hell anyone
would want to emigrate TO the USSR. Eventually both sides figured out he
was probably nothing more than a screwball who didn't require special
attention. Unfortunately our agencies didn't know he was a dangerous
screwball. How could they have?

It is bad tradecraft to just ASSuME that a defector is just a screwball.
That is why both sides kept an eye on him.
Hoover even thought that maybe the real Oswwald did not come back and it
was an imposter from the KGB.