Discussion:
What Does Boris Tarasoff Mean By "Broken Russian?"
(too old to reply)
19efppp
2020-12-04 20:50:05 UTC
Permalink
It's not just bad Russian, it's bad Russian used with English. It's the
English that "breaks" it. This is how he could transcribe "barely
comprehensible Russian." He was really just transcribing the English. The
Oswald on the telephone tap he heard did not really speak Russian. He
spoke English with Russian grunts. This is important, since the Dallas
Russians say that their Oswald could speak fluent Russian. Even Paul
Gregory, who said that Oswald's grammar was bad, said that Oswald was
fluent. " It was this poorly spoken Russian, but he was completely
fluent." This is not broken Russian. These are two different Oswalds.

https://postimg.cc/Ty12xHYs
Anthony Marsh
2020-12-05 14:16:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by 19efppp
It's not just bad Russian, it's bad Russian used with English. It's the
English that "breaks" it. This is how he could transcribe "barely
comprehensible Russian." He was really just transcribing the English. The
Oswald on the telephone tap he heard did not really speak Russian. He
spoke English with Russian grunts. This is important, since the Dallas
Russians say that their Oswald could speak fluent Russian. Even Paul
Gregory, who said that Oswald's grammar was bad, said that Oswald was
fluent. " It was this poorly spoken Russian, but he was completely
fluent." This is not broken Russian. These are two different Oswalds.
https://postimg.cc/Ty12xHYs
yes, ROBERT AND LEE.

There was no Oswald impersonator. but Gary Oldman did an excellent job,
19efppp
2020-12-05 19:32:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by 19efppp
It's not just bad Russian, it's bad Russian used with English. It's the
English that "breaks" it. This is how he could transcribe "barely
comprehensible Russian." He was really just transcribing the English. The
Oswald on the telephone tap he heard did not really speak Russian. He
spoke English with Russian grunts. This is important, since the Dallas
Russians say that their Oswald could speak fluent Russian. Even Paul
Gregory, who said that Oswald's grammar was bad, said that Oswald was
fluent. " It was this poorly spoken Russian, but he was completely
fluent." This is not broken Russian. These are two different Oswalds.
https://postimg.cc/Ty12xHYs
yes, ROBERT AND LEE.
There was no Oswald impersonator. but Gary Oldman did an excellent job,
Gary Oldman speaks fluent Russian? maybe he hacked the election for Biden.
Anthony Marsh
2020-12-08 03:19:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by 19efppp
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by 19efppp
It's not just bad Russian, it's bad Russian used with English. It's the
English that "breaks" it. This is how he could transcribe "barely
comprehensible Russian." He was really just transcribing the English. The
Oswald on the telephone tap he heard did not really speak Russian. He
spoke English with Russian grunts. This is important, since the Dallas
Russians say that their Oswald could speak fluent Russian. Even Paul
Gregory, who said that Oswald's grammar was bad, said that Oswald was
fluent. " It was this poorly spoken Russian, but he was completely
fluent." This is not broken Russian. These are two different Oswalds.
https://postimg.cc/Ty12xHYs
yes, ROBERT AND LEE.
There was no Oswald impersonator. but Gary Oldman did an excellent job,
Gary Oldman speaks fluent Russian? maybe he hacked the election for Biden.
No one spoke fluent Russian. Are you tring to insult Gary Oldman's
performance?
19efppp
2020-12-08 16:37:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by 19efppp
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by 19efppp
It's not just bad Russian, it's bad Russian used with English. It's the
English that "breaks" it. This is how he could transcribe "barely
comprehensible Russian." He was really just transcribing the English. The
Oswald on the telephone tap he heard did not really speak Russian. He
spoke English with Russian grunts. This is important, since the Dallas
Russians say that their Oswald could speak fluent Russian. Even Paul
Gregory, who said that Oswald's grammar was bad, said that Oswald was
fluent. " It was this poorly spoken Russian, but he was completely
fluent." This is not broken Russian. These are two different Oswalds.
https://postimg.cc/Ty12xHYs
yes, ROBERT AND LEE.
There was no Oswald impersonator. but Gary Oldman did an excellent job,
Gary Oldman speaks fluent Russian? maybe he hacked the election for Biden.
No one spoke fluent Russian. Are you tring to insult Gary Oldman's
performance?
I haven't seen that movie. I so haven't seen that movie that to me Gary
Oldman is a cute little black boy. Maybe he could play Amos Ewunes in the
remake.
Anthony Marsh
2020-12-14 01:54:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by 19efppp
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by 19efppp
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by 19efppp
It's not just bad Russian, it's bad Russian used with English. It's the
English that "breaks" it. This is how he could transcribe "barely
comprehensible Russian." He was really just transcribing the English. The
Oswald on the telephone tap he heard did not really speak Russian. He
spoke English with Russian grunts. This is important, since the Dallas
Russians say that their Oswald could speak fluent Russian. Even Paul
Gregory, who said that Oswald's grammar was bad, said that Oswald was
fluent. " It was this poorly spoken Russian, but he was completely
fluent." This is not broken Russian. These are two different Oswalds.
https://postimg.cc/Ty12xHYs
yes, ROBERT AND LEE.
There was no Oswald impersonator. but Gary Oldman did an excellent job,
Gary Oldman speaks fluent Russian? maybe he hacked the election for Biden.
No one spoke fluent Russian. Are you tring to insult Gary Oldman's
performance?
I haven't seen that movie. I so haven't seen that movie that to me Gary
Oldman is a cute little black boy. Maybe he could play Amos Ewunes in the
remake.
I RARELY DO THS, BUT I'LL POST A LINK TO A FILM CLIP AND YOU CAN LOOK
AT MORE.
19efppp
2020-12-14 12:48:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by 19efppp
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by 19efppp
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by 19efppp
It's not just bad Russian, it's bad Russian used with English. It's the
English that "breaks" it. This is how he could transcribe "barely
comprehensible Russian." He was really just transcribing the English. The
Oswald on the telephone tap he heard did not really speak Russian. He
spoke English with Russian grunts. This is important, since the Dallas
Russians say that their Oswald could speak fluent Russian. Even Paul
Gregory, who said that Oswald's grammar was bad, said that Oswald was
fluent. " It was this poorly spoken Russian, but he was completely
fluent." This is not broken Russian. These are two different Oswalds.
https://postimg.cc/Ty12xHYs
yes, ROBERT AND LEE.
There was no Oswald impersonator. but Gary Oldman did an excellent job,
Gary Oldman speaks fluent Russian? maybe he hacked the election for Biden.
No one spoke fluent Russian. Are you tring to insult Gary Oldman's
performance?
I haven't seen that movie. I so haven't seen that movie that to me Gary
Oldman is a cute little black boy. Maybe he could play Amos Ewunes in the
remake.
I RARELY DO THS, BUT I'LL POST A LINK TO A FILM CLIP AND YOU CAN LOOK
AT MORE.
There you are. They said you were dead and stuff. I don't see your link
anywhere, but keep up the good work.
Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
2020-12-15 15:05:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by 19efppp
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by 19efppp
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by 19efppp
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by 19efppp
It's not just bad Russian, it's bad Russian used with English. It's the
English that "breaks" it. This is how he could transcribe "barely
comprehensible Russian." He was really just transcribing the English. The
Oswald on the telephone tap he heard did not really speak Russian. He
spoke English with Russian grunts. This is important, since the Dallas
Russians say that their Oswald could speak fluent Russian. Even Paul
Gregory, who said that Oswald's grammar was bad, said that Oswald was
fluent. " It was this poorly spoken Russian, but he was completely
fluent." This is not broken Russian. These are two different Oswalds.
https://postimg.cc/Ty12xHYs
yes, ROBERT AND LEE.
There was no Oswald impersonator. but Gary Oldman did an excellent job,
Gary Oldman speaks fluent Russian? maybe he hacked the election for Biden.
No one spoke fluent Russian. Are you tring to insult Gary Oldman's
performance?
I haven't seen that movie. I so haven't seen that movie that to me Gary
Oldman is a cute little black boy. Maybe he could play Amos Ewunes in the
remake.
I RARELY DO THS, BUT I'LL POST A LINK TO A FILM CLIP AND YOU CAN LOOK
AT MORE.
There you are. They said you were dead and stuff. I don't see your link
anywhere, but keep up the good work.
Shouldn't "good work" be in quotation marks?

He said he would post a link, but didn't. What "good work"?

I guess it's good work for someone who styles himself as a Kennedy
conspiracy researcher.

Hank
19efppp
2020-12-16 02:57:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by 19efppp
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by 19efppp
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by 19efppp
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by 19efppp
It's not just bad Russian, it's bad Russian used with English. It's the
English that "breaks" it. This is how he could transcribe "barely
comprehensible Russian." He was really just transcribing the English. The
Oswald on the telephone tap he heard did not really speak Russian. He
spoke English with Russian grunts. This is important, since the Dallas
Russians say that their Oswald could speak fluent Russian. Even Paul
Gregory, who said that Oswald's grammar was bad, said that Oswald was
fluent. " It was this poorly spoken Russian, but he was completely
fluent." This is not broken Russian. These are two different Oswalds.
https://postimg.cc/Ty12xHYs
yes, ROBERT AND LEE.
There was no Oswald impersonator. but Gary Oldman did an excellent job,
Gary Oldman speaks fluent Russian? maybe he hacked the election for Biden.
No one spoke fluent Russian. Are you tring to insult Gary Oldman's
performance?
I haven't seen that movie. I so haven't seen that movie that to me Gary
Oldman is a cute little black boy. Maybe he could play Amos Ewunes in the
remake.
I RARELY DO THS, BUT I'LL POST A LINK TO A FILM CLIP AND YOU CAN LOOK
AT MORE.
There you are. They said you were dead and stuff. I don't see your link
anywhere, but keep up the good work.
Shouldn't "good work" be in quotation marks?
He said he would post a link, but didn't. What "good work"?
I guess it's good work for someone who styles himself as a Kennedy
conspiracy researcher.
Hank
My post was perfect and somebody edited it. But I do not accept the burden
of proving I'm right because I have to scratch my ass right now.
Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
2020-12-20 21:09:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by 19efppp
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by 19efppp
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by 19efppp
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by 19efppp
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by 19efppp
It's not just bad Russian, it's bad Russian used with English. It's the
English that "breaks" it. This is how he could transcribe "barely
comprehensible Russian." He was really just transcribing the English. The
Oswald on the telephone tap he heard did not really speak Russian. He
spoke English with Russian grunts. This is important, since the Dallas
Russians say that their Oswald could speak fluent Russian. Even Paul
Gregory, who said that Oswald's grammar was bad, said that Oswald was
fluent. " It was this poorly spoken Russian, but he was completely
fluent." This is not broken Russian. These are two different Oswalds.
https://postimg.cc/Ty12xHYs
yes, ROBERT AND LEE.
There was no Oswald impersonator. but Gary Oldman did an excellent job,
Gary Oldman speaks fluent Russian? maybe he hacked the election for Biden.
No one spoke fluent Russian. Are you tring to insult Gary Oldman's
performance?
I haven't seen that movie. I so haven't seen that movie that to me Gary
Oldman is a cute little black boy. Maybe he could play Amos Ewunes in the
remake.
I RARELY DO THS, BUT I'LL POST A LINK TO A FILM CLIP AND YOU CAN LOOK
AT MORE.
There you are. They said you were dead and stuff. I don't see your link
anywhere, but keep up the good work.
Shouldn't "good work" be in quotation marks?
He said he would post a link, but didn't. What "good work"?
I guess it's good work for someone who styles himself as a Kennedy
conspiracy researcher.
Hank
My post was perfect and somebody edited it. But I do not accept the burden
of proving I'm right because I have to scratch my ass right now.
As we've come to expect from you, you ignore the points made entirely and
talk instead about some inane subject matter that totally misses the mark.

Right now, you're right up there with Anthony Marsh for avoiding the
point.

Hank
19efppp
2020-12-21 13:33:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by 19efppp
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by 19efppp
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by 19efppp
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by 19efppp
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by 19efppp
It's not just bad Russian, it's bad Russian used with English. It's the
English that "breaks" it. This is how he could transcribe "barely
comprehensible Russian." He was really just transcribing the English. The
Oswald on the telephone tap he heard did not really speak Russian. He
spoke English with Russian grunts. This is important, since the Dallas
Russians say that their Oswald could speak fluent Russian. Even Paul
Gregory, who said that Oswald's grammar was bad, said that Oswald was
fluent. " It was this poorly spoken Russian, but he was completely
fluent." This is not broken Russian. These are two different Oswalds.
https://postimg.cc/Ty12xHYs
yes, ROBERT AND LEE.
There was no Oswald impersonator. but Gary Oldman did an excellent job,
Gary Oldman speaks fluent Russian? maybe he hacked the election for Biden.
No one spoke fluent Russian. Are you tring to insult Gary Oldman's
performance?
I haven't seen that movie. I so haven't seen that movie that to me Gary
Oldman is a cute little black boy. Maybe he could play Amos Ewunes in the
remake.
I RARELY DO THS, BUT I'LL POST A LINK TO A FILM CLIP AND YOU CAN LOOK
AT MORE.
There you are. They said you were dead and stuff. I don't see your link
anywhere, but keep up the good work.
Shouldn't "good work" be in quotation marks?
He said he would post a link, but didn't. What "good work"?
I guess it's good work for someone who styles himself as a Kennedy
conspiracy researcher.
Hank
My post was perfect and somebody edited it. But I do not accept the burden
of proving I'm right because I have to scratch my ass right now.
As we've come to expect from you, you ignore the points made entirely and
talk instead about some inane subject matter that totally misses the mark.
Right now, you're right up there with Anthony Marsh for avoiding the
point.
Hank
Fame at last!
Steven M. Galbraith
2020-12-06 00:52:56 UTC
Permalink
Tarasoff told the AARB that Oswald would speak in "barely recognizable"
Russian and then break in with English during the calls. Thus the "broken
Russian" description. This is the same thing, i.e., "broken Russian", that
Oleg Nechiporenko, one of the three KGB officers/Soviet Embassy personnel,
said when he recounted meeting Oswald over the two days. And all three
agents said it was indeed Oswald (they remember him bringing out a loaded
revolver and swinging it around and saying he needed it for protection).

Nechiporenko explained in his book "Passport to Assassination" that Oswald
"switched [from speaking English] over to broken Russian, in which the
rest of the conversation was conducted, except in a few instances when
Oswald experienced difficulty in expressing certain thoughts in Russian
and inserted English words."

And: "Our meeting had been conducted primarily in Russian but Oswald,
possibly from the strain of being overly excited, often experienced
difficulties in finding the proper Russian word and would switch to
English. His pronunciation was bad, and he really mangled the
grammar....."

It seems that Oswald's Russian at that time had gotten worse (or for
whatever reason he was having trouble remembering it) or that experienced
Russian language people found it hard to understand. Paul Gregory said
that he thought Oswald spoke Russian with a "Polish accent".

Question: Why would someone impersonating Oswald on the phone try to speak
a language - Russian - that he (the caller) couldn't?
19efppp
2020-12-06 17:46:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steven M. Galbraith
Tarasoff told the AARB that Oswald would speak in "barely recognizable"
Russian and then break in with English during the calls. Thus the "broken
Russian" description. This is the same thing, i.e., "broken Russian", that
Oleg Nechiporenko, one of the three KGB officers/Soviet Embassy personnel,
said when he recounted meeting Oswald over the two days. And all three
agents said it was indeed Oswald (they remember him bringing out a loaded
revolver and swinging it around and saying he needed it for protection).
Nechiporenko explained in his book "Passport to Assassination" that Oswald
"switched [from speaking English] over to broken Russian, in which the
rest of the conversation was conducted, except in a few instances when
Oswald experienced difficulty in expressing certain thoughts in Russian
and inserted English words."
And: "Our meeting had been conducted primarily in Russian but Oswald,
possibly from the strain of being overly excited, often experienced
difficulties in finding the proper Russian word and would switch to
English. His pronunciation was bad, and he really mangled the
grammar....."
It seems that Oswald's Russian at that time had gotten worse (or for
whatever reason he was having trouble remembering it) or that experienced
Russian language people found it hard to understand. Paul Gregory said
that he thought Oswald spoke Russian with a "Polish accent".
Question: Why would someone impersonating Oswald on the phone try to speak
a language - Russian - that he (the caller) couldn't?
"Strain" is a possible explanation. But I think there' s a big difference
between fluent and broken Russian. And if there are two Oswalds, then they
must look very much alike. And I'm not a big believer in the honesty of
KGB agents, even if I can't tell you why they would want to lie 30 years
later. And I didn't say that the caller speaking broken Russian was not
Oswald; I think that one really was Oswald. It was the real Oswald who
spoke broken Russian. The other guy spoke fluently. No, I don't know the
other guy's real name.

John Pic also noticed that his brother Lee spoke broken Russian. In one of
the documents, he says that when a Russian speaker came to pick up Oswald
from the 1962 Thanksgiving visit, and presumably this would be Paul
Gregory, son of Peter, that Lee spoke to him with Russian and English
words interspaced. Pic thought that the other guy spoke more fluently in
Russian, even though Pic didn't know the language. This is the same kind
of thing described by Tarasoff. This is broken Russian. But Peter Gregory
and all the rest of the Dallas Russians said that Oswald spoke fluently. A
fluent speaker does not insert words from his native language. But John
Pic's brother did, and presumably the Oswald at the Thanksgiving dinner
would be the real McCoy, and he spoke broken Russian.

A seeming problem for this idea is that Peter and Paul Gregory should be
able to tell the difference between the two Oswalds, since they seem to
have have visited the real Oswald at Robert Oswald's home. But they are
the only ones, I believe who ever saw Lee Oswald with any of his American
family. And a well-funded intelligence operation could have dealt with
that problem, methinks.

And, of course, Marina would have to know that she had two husbands, and
she was actually quoted in a French magazine as saying, "I have two
husbands," though she was using a metaphor. But, again at the 1962
Thanksgiving event, when the girls were alone, the American women thought
that Marina was trying to tell them that she had been married before, this
according to John Pic again. Maybe she was trying to tell them that she
had two husbands.
Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
2020-12-07 19:05:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by 19efppp
Post by Steven M. Galbraith
Tarasoff told the AARB that Oswald would speak in "barely recognizable"
Russian and then break in with English during the calls. Thus the "broken
Russian" description. This is the same thing, i.e., "broken Russian", that
Oleg Nechiporenko, one of the three KGB officers/Soviet Embassy personnel,
said when he recounted meeting Oswald over the two days. And all three
agents said it was indeed Oswald (they remember him bringing out a loaded
revolver and swinging it around and saying he needed it for protection).
Nechiporenko explained in his book "Passport to Assassination" that Oswald
"switched [from speaking English] over to broken Russian, in which the
rest of the conversation was conducted, except in a few instances when
Oswald experienced difficulty in expressing certain thoughts in Russian
and inserted English words."
And: "Our meeting had been conducted primarily in Russian but Oswald,
possibly from the strain of being overly excited, often experienced
difficulties in finding the proper Russian word and would switch to
English. His pronunciation was bad, and he really mangled the
grammar....."
It seems that Oswald's Russian at that time had gotten worse (or for
whatever reason he was having trouble remembering it) or that experienced
Russian language people found it hard to understand. Paul Gregory said
that he thought Oswald spoke Russian with a "Polish accent".
Question: Why would someone impersonating Oswald on the phone try to speak
a language - Russian - that he (the caller) couldn't?
"Strain" is a possible explanation. But I think there' s a big difference
between fluent and broken Russian. And if there are two Oswalds, then they
must look very much alike. And I'm not a big believer in the honesty of
KGB agents, even if I can't tell you why they would want to lie 30 years
later. And I didn't say that the caller speaking broken Russian was not
Oswald; I think that one really was Oswald. It was the real Oswald who
spoke broken Russian. The other guy spoke fluently. No, I don't know the
other guy's real name.
John Pic also noticed that his brother Lee spoke broken Russian. In one of
the documents, he says that when a Russian speaker came to pick up Oswald
from the 1962 Thanksgiving visit, and presumably this would be Paul
Gregory, son of Peter, that Lee spoke to him with Russian and English
words interspaced. Pic thought that the other guy spoke more fluently in
Russian, even though Pic didn't know the language. This is the same kind
of thing described by Tarasoff. This is broken Russian. But Peter Gregory
and all the rest of the Dallas Russians said that Oswald spoke fluently. A
fluent speaker does not insert words from his native language. But John
Pic's brother did, and presumably the Oswald at the Thanksgiving dinner
would be the real McCoy, and he spoke broken Russian.
A seeming problem for this idea is that Peter and Paul Gregory should be
able to tell the difference between the two Oswalds, since they seem to
have have visited the real Oswald at Robert Oswald's home.
You first have to resolve the conflict between John Pic's recollection of
how Lee spoke to Paul Gregory, and how Paul Gregory recalled Oswald
speaking. They both heard the same Oswalds. Not two different Oswalds,
right?

== QUOTE ==
Mr. LIEBELER. You are now pursuing a master's or doctor's?
Mr. GREGORY. A master's degree.
Mr. LIEBELER. In the subject you have just indicated?
Mr. GREGORY. Yes; Russian language and literature.
...
Mr. LIEBELER. What about Oswald's proficiency in Russian?
Mr. GREGORY. He spoke a very ungrammatical Russian with a very strong accent.
Mr. LIEBELER. What kind of accent?
Mr. GREGORY. Well, I can't tell you, because I am not that much of a judge. You would have to ask an expert about that. It was this poorly spoken Russian, but he was completely fluent. He understood more than I did and he could express any idea, I believe, that he wanted to in Russian. But it was heavily pronounced and he made all kinds of grammatical errors, and Marina would correct him, and he would get peered at her for doing this. She would say you are supposed to say like this, and he would wave his hand and say, "Don't bother me."
Mr. LIEBELER. He indicated that he didn't care to have Marina correct him as far as his use of the Russian language was concerned?
Mr. GREGORY. Yes.
== UNQUOTE ==
Post by 19efppp
But they are
the only ones, I believe who ever saw Lee Oswald with any of his American
family. And a well-funded intelligence operation could have dealt with
that problem, methinks.
Time out. No matter how well funded the supposed intelligence operation
you conjecture, I think Marina Oswald just might have noticed a different
guy pretending to be her husband showing up at her house, eating the
dinner she prepared for her husband, and trying to go to bed with her at
night.
Post by 19efppp
And, of course, Marina would have to know that she had two husbands, and
she was actually quoted in a French magazine as saying, "I have two
husbands," though she was using a metaphor. But, again at the 1962
Thanksgiving event, when the girls were alone, the American women thought
that Marina was trying to tell them that she had been married before, this
according to John Pic again. Maybe she was trying to tell them that she
had two husbands.
Or maybe she was just saying her husband acted one way in front of company
but another way when they were alone.

Or maybe hearsay isn't worth much.

It's curious she hasn't admitted to any of this nonsense about having two
husbands in the 57 years since the assassination. She didn't get shot on
11/24/63. She's still alive to answer questions.

You've built your argument for two Oswalds from hearsay and 15-year-old
recollections.

Don't you have any evidence?

Hank
Anthony Marsh
2020-12-08 03:19:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steven M. Galbraith
Tarasoff told the AARB that Oswald would speak in "barely recognizable"
Russian and then break in with English during the calls. Thus the "broken
Russian" description. This is the same thing, i.e., "broken Russian", that
Oleg Nechiporenko, one of the three KGB officers/Soviet Embassy personnel,
said when he recounted meeting Oswald over the two days. And all three
agents said it was indeed Oswald (they remember him bringing out a loaded
revolver and swinging it around and saying he needed it for protection).
Nechiporenko explained in his book "Passport to Assassination" that Oswald
"switched [from speaking English] over to broken Russian, in which the
rest of the conversation was conducted, except in a few instances when
Oswald experienced difficulty in expressing certain thoughts in Russian
and inserted English words."
And: "Our meeting had been conducted primarily in Russian but Oswald,
possibly from the strain of being overly excited, often experienced
difficulties in finding the proper Russian word and would switch to
English. His pronunciation was bad, and he really mangled the
grammar....."
It seems that Oswald's Russian at that time had gotten worse (or for
whatever reason he was having trouble remembering it) or that experienced
Russian language people found it hard to understand. Paul Gregory said
that he thought Oswald spoke Russian with a "Polish accent".
Question: Why would someone impersonating Oswald on the phone try to speak
a language - Russian - that he (the caller) couldn't?
To match Oswald's level of incompetence?
Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
2020-12-06 00:52:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by 19efppp
It's not just bad Russian, it's bad Russian used with English. It's the
English that "breaks" it. This is how he could transcribe "barely
comprehensible Russian." He was really just transcribing the English. The
Oswald on the telephone tap he heard did not really speak Russian. He
spoke English with Russian grunts. This is important, since the Dallas
Russians say that their Oswald could speak fluent Russian. Even Paul
Gregory, who said that Oswald's grammar was bad, said that Oswald was
fluent. " It was this poorly spoken Russian, but he was completely
fluent." This is not broken Russian. These are two different Oswalds.
https://postimg.cc/Ty12xHYs
He remembers in April of 1978 the person speaking in English,

His document, prepared in September of 1963, states the person spoke in
Russian, broken Russian, but Russian:

== QUOTE ==
GENZMAN: There is a comment between slash marks on this page that
states, "The same person that phoned a day or so ago and spoke in
broken Russian.
TARASOFF: Yes
GENSZMAN: Are you now saying you believe he spoke in English and not
in Russian?
TARASOFF: I believe he spoke in English.
== UNQUOTE ==

Your quote doesn't establish two Oswalds. It establishes what we already
know: Recollections 15 years after the fact aren't worth doodly-squat.

His recollection from 1978 differs from what he typed up while listening
to the tape back in September of 1963.

Hank
19efppp
2020-12-06 17:46:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by 19efppp
It's not just bad Russian, it's bad Russian used with English. It's the
English that "breaks" it. This is how he could transcribe "barely
comprehensible Russian." He was really just transcribing the English. The
Oswald on the telephone tap he heard did not really speak Russian. He
spoke English with Russian grunts. This is important, since the Dallas
Russians say that their Oswald could speak fluent Russian. Even Paul
Gregory, who said that Oswald's grammar was bad, said that Oswald was
fluent. " It was this poorly spoken Russian, but he was completely
fluent." This is not broken Russian. These are two different Oswalds.
https://postimg.cc/Ty12xHYs
He remembers in April of 1978 the person speaking in English,
His document, prepared in September of 1963, states the person spoke in
== QUOTE ==
GENZMAN: There is a comment between slash marks on this page that
states, "The same person that phoned a day or so ago and spoke in
broken Russian.
TARASOFF: Yes
GENSZMAN: Are you now saying you believe he spoke in English and not
in Russian?
TARASOFF: I believe he spoke in English.
== UNQUOTE ==
Your quote doesn't establish two Oswalds. It establishes what we already
know: Recollections 15 years after the fact aren't worth doodly-squat.
His recollection from 1978 differs from what he typed up while listening
to the tape back in September of 1963.
Hank
I like that you have narrowed your response to the issue at hand. I
disagree, of course, but I bid you remember that you have said,
"Recollections 15 years after the fact aren't worth doodly-squat," the
next time you find yourself discussing Jack Tatum with Tony's Twink, Dale
Myers. Myers seems to think that stories coming out of nowhere 15 years
after the fact trump Day One accounts. While I think that you are too
dismissive of dem old memories, I still think that Myers might benefit
from the intervention.
Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
2020-12-07 19:05:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by 19efppp
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by 19efppp
It's not just bad Russian, it's bad Russian used with English. It's the
English that "breaks" it. This is how he could transcribe "barely
comprehensible Russian." He was really just transcribing the English. The
Oswald on the telephone tap he heard did not really speak Russian. He
spoke English with Russian grunts. This is important, since the Dallas
Russians say that their Oswald could speak fluent Russian. Even Paul
Gregory, who said that Oswald's grammar was bad, said that Oswald was
fluent. " It was this poorly spoken Russian, but he was completely
fluent." This is not broken Russian. These are two different Oswalds.
https://postimg.cc/Ty12xHYs
He remembers in April of 1978 the person speaking in English,
His document, prepared in September of 1963, states the person spoke in
== QUOTE ==
GENZMAN: There is a comment between slash marks on this page that
states, "The same person that phoned a day or so ago and spoke in
broken Russian.
TARASOFF: Yes
GENSZMAN: Are you now saying you believe he spoke in English and not
in Russian?
TARASOFF: I believe he spoke in English.
== UNQUOTE ==
Your quote doesn't establish two Oswalds. It establishes what we already
know: Recollections 15 years after the fact aren't worth doodly-squat.
His recollection from 1978 differs from what he typed up while listening
to the tape back in September of 1963.
Hank
I like that you have narrowed your response to the issue at hand. I
disagree, of course, but I bid you remember that you have said,
"Recollections 15 years after the fact aren't worth doodly-squat," the
next time you find yourself discussing Jack Tatum with Tony's Twink, Dale
Myers.
And there's the logical fallacy of a red herring rearing its ugly head.
This is not a rebuttal to the fact that the contempory paperwork says
"Broken Russian" and the 15-year-later memory says "English". Throw away
the memory.
Post by 19efppp
Myers seems to think that stories coming out of nowhere 15 years
after the fact trump Day One accounts.
That's not a rebuttal to my point.
Post by 19efppp
While I think that you are too
dismissive of dem old memories,
That's not a rebuttal to my point either.

Old memories have their place, but when they are contradicted by the
contempory evidence prepared by the same person with the old memories,
then the old memories should be dismissed.
Post by 19efppp
I still think that Myers might benefit
from the intervention.
And we're back to the red herring.

Hank
19efppp
2020-12-08 16:37:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by 19efppp
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by 19efppp
It's not just bad Russian, it's bad Russian used with English. It's the
English that "breaks" it. This is how he could transcribe "barely
comprehensible Russian." He was really just transcribing the English. The
Oswald on the telephone tap he heard did not really speak Russian. He
spoke English with Russian grunts. This is important, since the Dallas
Russians say that their Oswald could speak fluent Russian. Even Paul
Gregory, who said that Oswald's grammar was bad, said that Oswald was
fluent. " It was this poorly spoken Russian, but he was completely
fluent." This is not broken Russian. These are two different Oswalds.
https://postimg.cc/Ty12xHYs
He remembers in April of 1978 the person speaking in English,
His document, prepared in September of 1963, states the person spoke in
== QUOTE ==
GENZMAN: There is a comment between slash marks on this page that
states, "The same person that phoned a day or so ago and spoke in
broken Russian.
TARASOFF: Yes
GENSZMAN: Are you now saying you believe he spoke in English and not
in Russian?
TARASOFF: I believe he spoke in English.
== UNQUOTE ==
Your quote doesn't establish two Oswalds. It establishes what we already
know: Recollections 15 years after the fact aren't worth doodly-squat.
His recollection from 1978 differs from what he typed up while listening
to the tape back in September of 1963.
Hank
I like that you have narrowed your response to the issue at hand. I
disagree, of course, but I bid you remember that you have said,
"Recollections 15 years after the fact aren't worth doodly-squat," the
next time you find yourself discussing Jack Tatum with Tony's Twink, Dale
Myers.
And there's the logical fallacy of a red herring rearing its ugly head.
This is not a rebuttal to the fact that the contempory paperwork says
"Broken Russian" and the 15-year-later memory says "English". Throw away
the memory.
Post by 19efppp
Myers seems to think that stories coming out of nowhere 15 years
after the fact trump Day One accounts.
That's not a rebuttal to my point.
Post by 19efppp
While I think that you are too
dismissive of dem old memories,
That's not a rebuttal to my point either.
Old memories have their place, but when they are contradicted by the
contempory evidence prepared by the same person with the old memories,
then the old memories should be dismissed.
Post by 19efppp
I still think that Myers might benefit
from the intervention.
And we're back to the red herring.
Hank
not a rebuttal to your point? Then stick your point up your own rebuttal.
Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
2020-12-09 04:24:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by 19efppp
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by 19efppp
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by 19efppp
It's not just bad Russian, it's bad Russian used with English. It's the
English that "breaks" it. This is how he could transcribe "barely
comprehensible Russian." He was really just transcribing the English. The
Oswald on the telephone tap he heard did not really speak Russian. He
spoke English with Russian grunts. This is important, since the Dallas
Russians say that their Oswald could speak fluent Russian. Even Paul
Gregory, who said that Oswald's grammar was bad, said that Oswald was
fluent. " It was this poorly spoken Russian, but he was completely
fluent." This is not broken Russian. These are two different Oswalds.
https://postimg.cc/Ty12xHYs
He remembers in April of 1978 the person speaking in English,
His document, prepared in September of 1963, states the person spoke in
== QUOTE ==
GENZMAN: There is a comment between slash marks on this page that
states, "The same person that phoned a day or so ago and spoke in
broken Russian.
TARASOFF: Yes
GENSZMAN: Are you now saying you believe he spoke in English and not
in Russian?
TARASOFF: I believe he spoke in English.
== UNQUOTE ==
Your quote doesn't establish two Oswalds. It establishes what we already
know: Recollections 15 years after the fact aren't worth doodly-squat.
His recollection from 1978 differs from what he typed up while listening
to the tape back in September of 1963.
Hank
I like that you have narrowed your response to the issue at hand. I
disagree, of course, but I bid you remember that you have said,
"Recollections 15 years after the fact aren't worth doodly-squat," the
next time you find yourself discussing Jack Tatum with Tony's Twink, Dale
Myers.
And there's the logical fallacy of a red herring rearing its ugly head.
This is not a rebuttal to the fact that the contempory paperwork says
"Broken Russian" and the 15-year-later memory says "English". Throw away
the memory.
No rebuttal.
Post by 19efppp
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by 19efppp
Myers seems to think that stories coming out of nowhere 15 years
after the fact trump Day One accounts.
That's not a rebuttal to my point.
No rebuttal.
Post by 19efppp
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by 19efppp
While I think that you are too
dismissive of dem old memories,
That's not a rebuttal to my point either.
No rebuttal.
Post by 19efppp
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Old memories have their place, but when they are contradicted by the
contempory evidence prepared by the same person with the old memories,
then the old memories should be dismissed.
No rebuttal.
Post by 19efppp
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by 19efppp
I still think that Myers might benefit
from the intervention.
And we're back to the red herring.
Hank
not a rebuttal to your point? Then stick your point up your own rebuttal.
So given opportunity to respond with your rebuttal arguments, you have no
rebuttal to my points.

Thank you for clearing that up for us.

Hank
19efppp
2020-12-09 23:37:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by 19efppp
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by 19efppp
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by 19efppp
It's not just bad Russian, it's bad Russian used with English. It's the
English that "breaks" it. This is how he could transcribe "barely
comprehensible Russian." He was really just transcribing the English. The
Oswald on the telephone tap he heard did not really speak Russian. He
spoke English with Russian grunts. This is important, since the Dallas
Russians say that their Oswald could speak fluent Russian. Even Paul
Gregory, who said that Oswald's grammar was bad, said that Oswald was
fluent. " It was this poorly spoken Russian, but he was completely
fluent." This is not broken Russian. These are two different Oswalds.
https://postimg.cc/Ty12xHYs
He remembers in April of 1978 the person speaking in English,
His document, prepared in September of 1963, states the person spoke in
== QUOTE ==
GENZMAN: There is a comment between slash marks on this page that
states, "The same person that phoned a day or so ago and spoke in
broken Russian.
TARASOFF: Yes
GENSZMAN: Are you now saying you believe he spoke in English and not
in Russian?
TARASOFF: I believe he spoke in English.
== UNQUOTE ==
Your quote doesn't establish two Oswalds. It establishes what we already
know: Recollections 15 years after the fact aren't worth doodly-squat.
His recollection from 1978 differs from what he typed up while listening
to the tape back in September of 1963.
Hank
I like that you have narrowed your response to the issue at hand. I
disagree, of course, but I bid you remember that you have said,
"Recollections 15 years after the fact aren't worth doodly-squat," the
next time you find yourself discussing Jack Tatum with Tony's Twink, Dale
Myers.
And there's the logical fallacy of a red herring rearing its ugly head.
This is not a rebuttal to the fact that the contempory paperwork says
"Broken Russian" and the 15-year-later memory says "English". Throw away
the memory.
No rebuttal.
Post by 19efppp
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by 19efppp
Myers seems to think that stories coming out of nowhere 15 years
after the fact trump Day One accounts.
That's not a rebuttal to my point.
No rebuttal.
Post by 19efppp
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by 19efppp
While I think that you are too
dismissive of dem old memories,
That's not a rebuttal to my point either.
No rebuttal.
Post by 19efppp
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Old memories have their place, but when they are contradicted by the
contempory evidence prepared by the same person with the old memories,
then the old memories should be dismissed.
No rebuttal.
Post by 19efppp
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by 19efppp
I still think that Myers might benefit
from the intervention.
And we're back to the red herring.
Hank
not a rebuttal to your point? Then stick your point up your own rebuttal.
So given opportunity to respond with your rebuttal arguments, you have no
rebuttal to my points.
Thank you for clearing that up for us.
Hank
Hank recaptures the glory of that day when Mort Sahl refused to take him
seriously. Maybe now he can find himself a new hobby.
Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
2020-12-11 22:53:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by 19efppp
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by 19efppp
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by 19efppp
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by 19efppp
It's not just bad Russian, it's bad Russian used with English. It's the
English that "breaks" it. This is how he could transcribe "barely
comprehensible Russian." He was really just transcribing the English. The
Oswald on the telephone tap he heard did not really speak Russian. He
spoke English with Russian grunts. This is important, since the Dallas
Russians say that their Oswald could speak fluent Russian. Even Paul
Gregory, who said that Oswald's grammar was bad, said that Oswald was
fluent. " It was this poorly spoken Russian, but he was completely
fluent." This is not broken Russian. These are two different Oswalds.
https://postimg.cc/Ty12xHYs
He remembers in April of 1978 the person speaking in English,
His document, prepared in September of 1963, states the person spoke in
== QUOTE ==
GENZMAN: There is a comment between slash marks on this page that
states, "The same person that phoned a day or so ago and spoke in
broken Russian.
TARASOFF: Yes
GENSZMAN: Are you now saying you believe he spoke in English and not
in Russian?
TARASOFF: I believe he spoke in English.
== UNQUOTE ==
Your quote doesn't establish two Oswalds. It establishes what we already
know: Recollections 15 years after the fact aren't worth doodly-squat.
His recollection from 1978 differs from what he typed up while listening
to the tape back in September of 1963.
Hank
I like that you have narrowed your response to the issue at hand. I
disagree, of course, but I bid you remember that you have said,
"Recollections 15 years after the fact aren't worth doodly-squat," the
next time you find yourself discussing Jack Tatum with Tony's Twink, Dale
Myers.
And there's the logical fallacy of a red herring rearing its ugly head.
This is not a rebuttal to the fact that the contempory paperwork says
"Broken Russian" and the 15-year-later memory says "English". Throw away
the memory.
No rebuttal.
Post by 19efppp
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by 19efppp
Myers seems to think that stories coming out of nowhere 15 years
after the fact trump Day One accounts.
That's not a rebuttal to my point.
No rebuttal.
Post by 19efppp
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by 19efppp
While I think that you are too
dismissive of dem old memories,
That's not a rebuttal to my point either.
No rebuttal.
Post by 19efppp
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Old memories have their place, but when they are contradicted by the
contempory evidence prepared by the same person with the old memories,
then the old memories should be dismissed.
No rebuttal.
Post by 19efppp
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by 19efppp
I still think that Myers might benefit
from the intervention.
And we're back to the red herring.
Hank
not a rebuttal to your point? Then stick your point up your own rebuttal.
So given opportunity to respond with your rebuttal arguments, you have no
rebuttal to my points.
Thank you for clearing that up for us.
Hank
Hank recaptures the glory of that day when Mort Sahl refused to take him
seriously. Maybe now he can find himself a new hobby.
No, I like this one just fine. You still haven't pointed out any flaws in
my rebuttal nor attempted to defend your own argument.
19efppp
2020-12-12 15:45:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by 19efppp
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by 19efppp
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by 19efppp
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by 19efppp
It's not just bad Russian, it's bad Russian used with English. It's the
English that "breaks" it. This is how he could transcribe "barely
comprehensible Russian." He was really just transcribing the English. The
Oswald on the telephone tap he heard did not really speak Russian. He
spoke English with Russian grunts. This is important, since the Dallas
Russians say that their Oswald could speak fluent Russian. Even Paul
Gregory, who said that Oswald's grammar was bad, said that Oswald was
fluent. " It was this poorly spoken Russian, but he was completely
fluent." This is not broken Russian. These are two different Oswalds.
https://postimg.cc/Ty12xHYs
He remembers in April of 1978 the person speaking in English,
His document, prepared in September of 1963, states the person spoke in
== QUOTE ==
GENZMAN: There is a comment between slash marks on this page that
states, "The same person that phoned a day or so ago and spoke in
broken Russian.
TARASOFF: Yes
GENSZMAN: Are you now saying you believe he spoke in English and not
in Russian?
TARASOFF: I believe he spoke in English.
== UNQUOTE ==
Your quote doesn't establish two Oswalds. It establishes what we already
know: Recollections 15 years after the fact aren't worth doodly-squat.
His recollection from 1978 differs from what he typed up while listening
to the tape back in September of 1963.
Hank
I like that you have narrowed your response to the issue at hand. I
disagree, of course, but I bid you remember that you have said,
"Recollections 15 years after the fact aren't worth doodly-squat," the
next time you find yourself discussing Jack Tatum with Tony's Twink, Dale
Myers.
And there's the logical fallacy of a red herring rearing its ugly head.
This is not a rebuttal to the fact that the contempory paperwork says
"Broken Russian" and the 15-year-later memory says "English". Throw away
the memory.
No rebuttal.
Post by 19efppp
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by 19efppp
Myers seems to think that stories coming out of nowhere 15 years
after the fact trump Day One accounts.
That's not a rebuttal to my point.
No rebuttal.
Post by 19efppp
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by 19efppp
While I think that you are too
dismissive of dem old memories,
That's not a rebuttal to my point either.
No rebuttal.
Post by 19efppp
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Old memories have their place, but when they are contradicted by the
contempory evidence prepared by the same person with the old memories,
then the old memories should be dismissed.
No rebuttal.
Post by 19efppp
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by 19efppp
I still think that Myers might benefit
from the intervention.
And we're back to the red herring.
Hank
not a rebuttal to your point? Then stick your point up your own rebuttal.
So given opportunity to respond with your rebuttal arguments, you have no
rebuttal to my points.
Thank you for clearing that up for us.
Hank
Hank recaptures the glory of that day when Mort Sahl refused to take him
seriously. Maybe now he can find himself a new hobby.
No, I like this one just fine. You still haven't pointed out any flaws in
my rebuttal nor attempted to defend your own argument.
As I've already said, I have so many more important things to do than rate
your rebuttals. For instance, the silverware needs polishing.
davide...@gmail.com
2020-12-07 04:25:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by 19efppp
It's not just bad Russian, it's bad Russian used with English. It's the
English that "breaks" it. This is how he could transcribe "barely
comprehensible Russian." He was really just transcribing the English. The
Oswald on the telephone tap he heard did not really speak Russian. He
spoke English with Russian grunts. This is important, since the Dallas
Russians say that their Oswald could speak fluent Russian. Even Paul
Gregory, who said that Oswald's grammar was bad, said that Oswald was
fluent. " It was this poorly spoken Russian, but he was completely
fluent." This is not broken Russian. These are two different Oswalds.
https://postimg.cc/Ty12xHYs
Being able to speak Russian myself, this is one area that I actually have
attempted to do some research, mostly wanting to know just how fluent
Oswald was in the Russian language. My biggest disappointment in this
endeavor was that there does not seem to be ANY recording of Oswald
speaking a single Russian word. I would have loved to examine it, if for
not other reason, to detect his accent, if any. I can speak Russian
without an accent but that is because I had intensive Russian language
training by native Russians that began when I was in 6th grade.

First of all, Oswald spent well over 2 years in Russia after already
having done some self-study of the language during his time in the Marine
Corps. He seemed to be socially functional during his time in Russia; so,
it's nearly impossible to believe that he did not obtain a certain degree
of competency with the language with that kind of immersion. Plus, his
co-workers (at the Minsk factory) took it upon themselves to give him
lessons (during their lunch break), especially early on when Oswald's
language skills were weak.

When Marina first met Oswald, she did not get the impression that he
struggled with the language, rather, she interpreted his accent as
something exotic (which interested her) from another region of Russia
when, in all probability, it was simply his English/southern accent -
something she would not be familiar with since she had never encountered
an English-speaking person speaking Russian as a second language.

I have examined the "Walker letter", written by Oswald in Russian, and
noticed that he definitely had some proficiency but it was more akin to a
10-yr-old. Yet, Oswald's extemporaneous writing (in English) was often
well below his verbal skills and I imagine that disparity would even be
more pronounced with a second language. My estimate is that Oswald had the
verbal Russian language skills of a young high schooler, probably about
the 9th grade level - which is actually quite good.

As far as I could tell, there was never any attempt on Marina's part to
improve Oswald's Russian proficiency. In fact, she would sometimes tease
him when he made mistakes. Once they arrived back in the United States,
Marina was mostly interested in learning English, not improving Oswald's
Russian. That was one of Marina's allure to Ruth Paine - learning English.

Any notion that Oswald could not speak Russian with a fairly high degree
of proficiency is ridiculous.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN
John McAdams
2020-12-07 04:33:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by 19efppp
It's not just bad Russian, it's bad Russian used with English. It's the
English that "breaks" it. This is how he could transcribe "barely
comprehensible Russian." He was really just transcribing the English. The
Oswald on the telephone tap he heard did not really speak Russian. He
spoke English with Russian grunts. This is important, since the Dallas
Russians say that their Oswald could speak fluent Russian. Even Paul
Gregory, who said that Oswald's grammar was bad, said that Oswald was
fluent. " It was this poorly spoken Russian, but he was completely
fluent." This is not broken Russian. These are two different Oswalds.
https://postimg.cc/Ty12xHYs
Being able to speak Russian myself, this is one area that I actually have
attempted to do some research, mostly wanting to know just how fluent
Oswald was in the Russian language. My biggest disappointment in this
endeavor was that there does not seem to be ANY recording of Oswald
speaking a single Russian word. I would have loved to examine it, if for
not other reason, to detect his accent, if any. I can speak Russian
without an accent but that is because I had intensive Russian language
training by native Russians that began when I was in 6th grade.
First of all, Oswald spent well over 2 years in Russia after already
having done some self-study of the language during his time in the Marine
Corps. He seemed to be socially functional during his time in Russia; so,
it's nearly impossible to believe that he did not obtain a certain degree
of competency with the language with that kind of immersion. Plus, his
co-workers (at the Minsk factory) took it upon themselves to give him
lessons (during their lunch break), especially early on when Oswald's
language skills were weak.
When Marina first met Oswald, she did not get the impression that he
struggled with the language, rather, she interpreted his accent as
something exotic (which interested her) from another region of Russia
If I remember correctly, she thought he spoke like somebody from one
of the Baltic Republics. Russian was not the native language there,
although they had been forcibly included in the USSR.
Post by ***@gmail.com
when, in all probability, it was simply his English/southern accent -
something she would not be familiar with since she had never encountered
an English-speaking person speaking Russian as a second language.
I have examined the "Walker letter", written by Oswald in Russian, and
noticed that he definitely had some proficiency but it was more akin to a
10-yr-old. Yet, Oswald's extemporaneous writing (in English) was often
well below his verbal skills and I imagine that disparity would even be
more pronounced with a second language. My estimate is that Oswald had the
verbal Russian language skills of a young high schooler, probably about
the 9th grade level - which is actually quite good.
As far as I could tell, there was never any attempt on Marina's part to
improve Oswald's Russian proficiency. In fact, she would sometimes tease
him when he made mistakes. Once they arrived back in the United States,
Marina was mostly interested in learning English, not improving Oswald's
Russian. That was one of Marina's allure to Ruth Paine - learning English.
Any notion that Oswald could not speak Russian with a fairly high degree
of proficiency is ridiculous.
Then does that imply there *was* an imposter?

I think we should stipulate that saying "how well" somebody speaks a
foreign language is a somewhat subjective matter. One person might be
impressed with the "proficiency," while another might think the
speaker is a rube with little proficiency.

Tarasoff was doubtless entirely fluent, and might have been a very
tough judge.

Further, heavily accented speaking might be considered "poor"
proficiency, even if somebody has the grammar and vocabulary with
effortless fluency.

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Steven M. Galbraith
2020-12-07 19:05:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by John McAdams
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by 19efppp
It's not just bad Russian, it's bad Russian used with English. It's the
English that "breaks" it. This is how he could transcribe "barely
comprehensible Russian." He was really just transcribing the English. The
Oswald on the telephone tap he heard did not really speak Russian. He
spoke English with Russian grunts. This is important, since the Dallas
Russians say that their Oswald could speak fluent Russian. Even Paul
Gregory, who said that Oswald's grammar was bad, said that Oswald was
fluent. " It was this poorly spoken Russian, but he was completely
fluent." This is not broken Russian. These are two different Oswalds.
https://postimg.cc/Ty12xHYs
Being able to speak Russian myself, this is one area that I actually have
attempted to do some research, mostly wanting to know just how fluent
Oswald was in the Russian language. My biggest disappointment in this
endeavor was that there does not seem to be ANY recording of Oswald
speaking a single Russian word. I would have loved to examine it, if for
not other reason, to detect his accent, if any. I can speak Russian
without an accent but that is because I had intensive Russian language
training by native Russians that began when I was in 6th grade.
First of all, Oswald spent well over 2 years in Russia after already
having done some self-study of the language during his time in the Marine
Corps. He seemed to be socially functional during his time in Russia; so,
it's nearly impossible to believe that he did not obtain a certain degree
of competency with the language with that kind of immersion. Plus, his
co-workers (at the Minsk factory) took it upon themselves to give him
lessons (during their lunch break), especially early on when Oswald's
language skills were weak.
When Marina first met Oswald, she did not get the impression that he
struggled with the language, rather, she interpreted his accent as
something exotic (which interested her) from another region of Russia
If I remember correctly, she thought he spoke like somebody from one
of the Baltic Republics. Russian was not the native language there,
although they had been forcibly included in the USSR.
Post by ***@gmail.com
when, in all probability, it was simply his English/southern accent -
something she would not be familiar with since she had never encountered
an English-speaking person speaking Russian as a second language.
I have examined the "Walker letter", written by Oswald in Russian, and
noticed that he definitely had some proficiency but it was more akin to a
10-yr-old. Yet, Oswald's extemporaneous writing (in English) was often
well below his verbal skills and I imagine that disparity would even be
more pronounced with a second language. My estimate is that Oswald had the
verbal Russian language skills of a young high schooler, probably about
the 9th grade level - which is actually quite good.
As far as I could tell, there was never any attempt on Marina's part to
improve Oswald's Russian proficiency. In fact, she would sometimes tease
him when he made mistakes. Once they arrived back in the United States,
Marina was mostly interested in learning English, not improving Oswald's
Russian. That was one of Marina's allure to Ruth Paine - learning English.
Any notion that Oswald could not speak Russian with a fairly high degree
of proficiency is ridiculous.
Then does that imply there *was* an imposter?
I think we should stipulate that saying "how well" somebody speaks a
foreign language is a somewhat subjective matter. One person might be
impressed with the "proficiency," while another might think the
speaker is a rube with little proficiency.
Tarasoff was doubtless entirely fluent, and might have been a very
tough judge.
Further, heavily accented speaking might be considered "poor"
proficiency, even if somebody has the grammar and vocabulary with
effortless fluency.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Paul Gregory (the father) said it sounded like "Polish Russian." Jean
Davison asked some Russian speakers to translate that Walker note. Several
said it was filled with errors and mistakes and difficult to read. If
Oswald was proficient in Russian I don't see how he would make such
*fundamental* mistakes. Granted, his English writings were horrible too.

As I noted above, for whatever reason his proficiency/fluency in the
language seemed to have escaped him when he went to Mexico City. And if he
was impersonated we have the curious question of why an impostor - who
couldn't speak Russian - would try to speak it during his "act". For what
benefit? That makes no sense at all.
Steven M. Galbraith
2020-12-08 16:37:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steven M. Galbraith
Post by John McAdams
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by 19efppp
It's not just bad Russian, it's bad Russian used with English. It's the
English that "breaks" it. This is how he could transcribe "barely
comprehensible Russian." He was really just transcribing the English. The
Oswald on the telephone tap he heard did not really speak Russian. He
spoke English with Russian grunts. This is important, since the Dallas
Russians say that their Oswald could speak fluent Russian. Even Paul
Gregory, who said that Oswald's grammar was bad, said that Oswald was
fluent. " It was this poorly spoken Russian, but he was completely
fluent." This is not broken Russian. These are two different Oswalds.
https://postimg.cc/Ty12xHYs
Being able to speak Russian myself, this is one area that I actually have
attempted to do some research, mostly wanting to know just how fluent
Oswald was in the Russian language. My biggest disappointment in this
endeavor was that there does not seem to be ANY recording of Oswald
speaking a single Russian word. I would have loved to examine it, if for
not other reason, to detect his accent, if any. I can speak Russian
without an accent but that is because I had intensive Russian language
training by native Russians that began when I was in 6th grade.
First of all, Oswald spent well over 2 years in Russia after already
having done some self-study of the language during his time in the Marine
Corps. He seemed to be socially functional during his time in Russia; so,
it's nearly impossible to believe that he did not obtain a certain degree
of competency with the language with that kind of immersion. Plus, his
co-workers (at the Minsk factory) took it upon themselves to give him
lessons (during their lunch break), especially early on when Oswald's
language skills were weak.
When Marina first met Oswald, she did not get the impression that he
struggled with the language, rather, she interpreted his accent as
something exotic (which interested her) from another region of Russia
If I remember correctly, she thought he spoke like somebody from one
of the Baltic Republics. Russian was not the native language there,
although they had been forcibly included in the USSR.
Post by ***@gmail.com
when, in all probability, it was simply his English/southern accent -
something she would not be familiar with since she had never encountered
an English-speaking person speaking Russian as a second language.
I have examined the "Walker letter", written by Oswald in Russian, and
noticed that he definitely had some proficiency but it was more akin to a
10-yr-old. Yet, Oswald's extemporaneous writing (in English) was often
well below his verbal skills and I imagine that disparity would even be
more pronounced with a second language. My estimate is that Oswald had the
verbal Russian language skills of a young high schooler, probably about
the 9th grade level - which is actually quite good.
As far as I could tell, there was never any attempt on Marina's part to
improve Oswald's Russian proficiency. In fact, she would sometimes tease
him when he made mistakes. Once they arrived back in the United States,
Marina was mostly interested in learning English, not improving Oswald's
Russian. That was one of Marina's allure to Ruth Paine - learning English.
Any notion that Oswald could not speak Russian with a fairly high degree
of proficiency is ridiculous.
Then does that imply there *was* an imposter?
I think we should stipulate that saying "how well" somebody speaks a
foreign language is a somewhat subjective matter. One person might be
impressed with the "proficiency," while another might think the
speaker is a rube with little proficiency.
Tarasoff was doubtless entirely fluent, and might have been a very
tough judge.
Further, heavily accented speaking might be considered "poor"
proficiency, even if somebody has the grammar and vocabulary with
effortless fluency.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Paul Gregory (the father) said it sounded like "Polish Russian." Jean
Davison asked some Russian speakers to translate that Walker note. Several
said it was filled with errors and mistakes and difficult to read. If
Oswald was proficient in Russian I don't see how he would make such
*fundamental* mistakes. Granted, his English writings were horrible too.
As I noted above, for whatever reason his proficiency/fluency in the
language seemed to have escaped him when he went to Mexico City. And if he
was impersonated we have the curious question of why an impostor - who
couldn't speak Russian - would try to speak it during his "act". For what
benefit? That makes no sense at all.
Gregory's son said (WC testimony): "He spoke a very ungrammatical Russian
with a very strong accent. [....] It was this poorly spoken Russian, but
he was completely fluent. He understood more than I did and he could
express any idea, I believe, that he wanted to in Russian. But it was
heavily pronounced and he made all kinds of grammatical errors, and Marina
would correct him, and he would get peeved at her for doing this. She
would say you are supposed to say like this, and he would wave his hand
and say, "Don't bother me.""

Again we have the he was "fluent" in the language but it was also "poorly
spoken Russian" conflict.
davide...@gmail.com
2021-01-05 01:03:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by John McAdams
Further, heavily accented speaking might be considered "poor"
proficiency, even if somebody has the grammar and vocabulary with
effortless fluency.
.John
This is very true. I chuckled when I read this because it is completely
the opposite for me. Over the years, as my proficiency in Russian has
declined somewhat, I maintain my proper pronunciation (no accent) but now
I must speak more deliberately because my brain is not navigating as
quickly through the complex Russian grammar system as it used to. It is
very odd for a native Russian to hear me properly pronounce a word that
has been improperly declined, for instance.

You're probably right. I think it's very likely that Oswald developed a
feel for the vocabulary/grammar but could not completely shake his
English/southern accent.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

19efppp
2020-12-07 13:49:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by 19efppp
It's not just bad Russian, it's bad Russian used with English. It's the
English that "breaks" it. This is how he could transcribe "barely
comprehensible Russian." He was really just transcribing the English. The
Oswald on the telephone tap he heard did not really speak Russian. He
spoke English with Russian grunts. This is important, since the Dallas
Russians say that their Oswald could speak fluent Russian. Even Paul
Gregory, who said that Oswald's grammar was bad, said that Oswald was
fluent. " It was this poorly spoken Russian, but he was completely
fluent." This is not broken Russian. These are two different Oswalds.
https://postimg.cc/Ty12xHYs
Being able to speak Russian myself, this is one area that I actually have
attempted to do some research, mostly wanting to know just how fluent
Oswald was in the Russian language. My biggest disappointment in this
endeavor was that there does not seem to be ANY recording of Oswald
speaking a single Russian word. I would have loved to examine it, if for
not other reason, to detect his accent, if any. I can speak Russian
without an accent but that is because I had intensive Russian language
training by native Russians that began when I was in 6th grade.
First of all, Oswald spent well over 2 years in Russia after already
having done some self-study of the language during his time in the Marine
Corps. He seemed to be socially functional during his time in Russia; so,
it's nearly impossible to believe that he did not obtain a certain degree
of competency with the language with that kind of immersion. Plus, his
co-workers (at the Minsk factory) took it upon themselves to give him
lessons (during their lunch break), especially early on when Oswald's
language skills were weak.
When Marina first met Oswald, she did not get the impression that he
struggled with the language, rather, she interpreted his accent as
something exotic (which interested her) from another region of Russia
when, in all probability, it was simply his English/southern accent -
something she would not be familiar with since she had never encountered
an English-speaking person speaking Russian as a second language.
I have examined the "Walker letter", written by Oswald in Russian, and
noticed that he definitely had some proficiency but it was more akin to a
10-yr-old. Yet, Oswald's extemporaneous writing (in English) was often
well below his verbal skills and I imagine that disparity would even be
more pronounced with a second language. My estimate is that Oswald had the
verbal Russian language skills of a young high schooler, probably about
the 9th grade level - which is actually quite good.
As far as I could tell, there was never any attempt on Marina's part to
improve Oswald's Russian proficiency. In fact, she would sometimes tease
him when he made mistakes. Once they arrived back in the United States,
Marina was mostly interested in learning English, not improving Oswald's
Russian. That was one of Marina's allure to Ruth Paine - learning English.
Any notion that Oswald could not speak Russian with a fairly high degree
of proficiency is ridiculous.
David Emerling
Memphis, TN
"Of course," the reason we don't have a recording of him speaking Russian
is that he couldn't. A recording of Oswald speaking Russian would reveal
that he had not undergone 2-1/2 years of Soviet immersion. And a recording
of the fluent-speaking "Oswald" would reveal a voice different from
Oswald's, so we can't have that, either.
Steven M. Galbraith
2020-12-07 19:05:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by 19efppp
It's not just bad Russian, it's bad Russian used with English. It's the
English that "breaks" it. This is how he could transcribe "barely
comprehensible Russian." He was really just transcribing the English. The
Oswald on the telephone tap he heard did not really speak Russian. He
spoke English with Russian grunts. This is important, since the Dallas
Russians say that their Oswald could speak fluent Russian. Even Paul
Gregory, who said that Oswald's grammar was bad, said that Oswald was
fluent. " It was this poorly spoken Russian, but he was completely
fluent." This is not broken Russian. These are two different Oswalds.
https://postimg.cc/Ty12xHYs
Being able to speak Russian myself, this is one area that I actually have
attempted to do some research, mostly wanting to know just how fluent
Oswald was in the Russian language. My biggest disappointment in this
endeavor was that there does not seem to be ANY recording of Oswald
speaking a single Russian word. I would have loved to examine it, if for
not other reason, to detect his accent, if any. I can speak Russian
without an accent but that is because I had intensive Russian language
training by native Russians that began when I was in 6th grade.
First of all, Oswald spent well over 2 years in Russia after already
having done some self-study of the language during his time in the Marine
Corps. He seemed to be socially functional during his time in Russia; so,
it's nearly impossible to believe that he did not obtain a certain degree
of competency with the language with that kind of immersion. Plus, his
co-workers (at the Minsk factory) took it upon themselves to give him
lessons (during their lunch break), especially early on when Oswald's
language skills were weak.
When Marina first met Oswald, she did not get the impression that he
struggled with the language, rather, she interpreted his accent as
something exotic (which interested her) from another region of Russia
when, in all probability, it was simply his English/southern accent -
something she would not be familiar with since she had never encountered
an English-speaking person speaking Russian as a second language.
I have examined the "Walker letter", written by Oswald in Russian, and
noticed that he definitely had some proficiency but it was more akin to a
10-yr-old. Yet, Oswald's extemporaneous writing (in English) was often
well below his verbal skills and I imagine that disparity would even be
more pronounced with a second language. My estimate is that Oswald had the
verbal Russian language skills of a young high schooler, probably about
the 9th grade level - which is actually quite good.
As far as I could tell, there was never any attempt on Marina's part to
improve Oswald's Russian proficiency. In fact, she would sometimes tease
him when he made mistakes. Once they arrived back in the United States,
Marina was mostly interested in learning English, not improving Oswald's
Russian. That was one of Marina's allure to Ruth Paine - learning English.
Any notion that Oswald could not speak Russian with a fairly high degree
of proficiency is ridiculous.
David Emerling
Memphis, TN
The problem with your "ridiculous" claim is that the CIA translator and the
KGB/Soviet Embassy officials who heard him speak it when he visited Mexico
City all said his Russian was "broken" and hardly recognizable.

The KGB officials talked to him face-to-face over two days with the second
meeting taking over an hour. They said he has terrible problems with
grammar and pronounciation. Nechiporenko, one of the three men said: "His
pronunciation was bad, and he really mangled the grammar....."

When he first arrived in Minsk, Stanislav Shushkevich was assigned by the
authorities to teach him Russian at the factory they both worked at.
Shushkevich would later become the first president of Belarus after it
gained independence. Shushkevich said (this is from the Mailer book):
"Lessons took place in a a second-floor room after work, and Oswald would
come to visit him from another building in their factory compound....Their
lessons proceeded without great enthusiams and Oswald found Russian
difficult. He did get to a point where he could achieve understanding if
Shushkevich spoke slowly, used gestures, wrote words on pieces of paper
and sometimes brought out a dictionary."

Given Oswald's problems with English - his apparent dyslexisa - I find it
hard to believe he could speak Russian fluently. At least as judged by
native speakers of the language.
davide...@gmail.com
2020-12-11 01:12:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steven M. Galbraith
The KGB officials talked to him face-to-face over two days with the second
meeting taking over an hour. They said he has terrible problems with
grammar and pronounciation. Nechiporenko, one of the three men said: "His
pronunciation was bad, and he really mangled the grammar....."
I can't imagine Oswald not having an accent. It's very difficult for an
English-speaker to pronounce Russian words. There are quite a few
one-letter words (usually prepositions) that have only one letter. And
it's a consonant! :)

Each language has something unique about it - something that is done with
the tongue, teeth, lips or throat that is not done in other languages. For
instance, in English, the "th" sound is very difficult for non-English
speakers to duplicate because they do not have the equivalent sound.
That's why foreigners, when trying to say something as simple as "I think
so", it usually comes out like "I tink so", or "I zink so", or "I sink so"
or "I dink so." Their tongue is not trained to quickly drag itself
backwards against their top teeth.

Oswald's proficiency in Russian had to rapidly decline once he returned
from the Soviet Union and was no longer immersed in the language. I would
think that he had the vocabulary but that his grammatical skills would
rapidly deteriorate; or, at least, not progress. Russian grammar is a
nightmare for non-native speakers. Adjectives and nouns CHANGE depending
on how they are used in a sentence. Even people's names change. The only
thing that we have in English that remotely comes close to that is our use
of words like I/me, he/him, she/her, they/them.

One would think that if the plan was to have "two Oswalds", curiously
finding an Oswald doppelganger who could apparently fool Marina, that
"they" could teach the double to speak Russian more convincingly.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN
19efppp
2020-12-11 22:53:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Steven M. Galbraith
The KGB officials talked to him face-to-face over two days with the second
meeting taking over an hour. They said he has terrible problems with
grammar and pronounciation. Nechiporenko, one of the three men said: "His
pronunciation was bad, and he really mangled the grammar....."
I can't imagine Oswald not having an accent. It's very difficult for an
English-speaker to pronounce Russian words. There are quite a few
one-letter words (usually prepositions) that have only one letter. And
it's a consonant! :)
Each language has something unique about it - something that is done with
the tongue, teeth, lips or throat that is not done in other languages. For
instance, in English, the "th" sound is very difficult for non-English
speakers to duplicate because they do not have the equivalent sound.
That's why foreigners, when trying to say something as simple as "I think
so", it usually comes out like "I tink so", or "I zink so", or "I sink so"
or "I dink so." Their tongue is not trained to quickly drag itself
backwards against their top teeth.
Oswald's proficiency in Russian had to rapidly decline once he returned
from the Soviet Union and was no longer immersed in the language. I would
think that he had the vocabulary but that his grammatical skills would
rapidly deteriorate; or, at least, not progress. Russian grammar is a
nightmare for non-native speakers. Adjectives and nouns CHANGE depending
on how they are used in a sentence. Even people's names change. The only
thing that we have in English that remotely comes close to that is our use
of words like I/me, he/him, she/her, they/them.
One would think that if the plan was to have "two Oswalds", curiously
finding an Oswald doppelganger who could apparently fool Marina, that
"they" could teach the double to speak Russian more convincingly.
David Emerling
Memphis, TN
Don't be silly. Of course, Marina was not fooled by a fake Oswald. Only a
Lone Nutter would think that's the argument.
Steven M. Galbraith
2020-12-12 02:50:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Steven M. Galbraith
The KGB officials talked to him face-to-face over two days with the second
meeting taking over an hour. They said he has terrible problems with
grammar and pronounciation. Nechiporenko, one of the three men said: "His
pronunciation was bad, and he really mangled the grammar....."
I can't imagine Oswald not having an accent. It's very difficult for an
English-speaker to pronounce Russian words. There are quite a few
one-letter words (usually prepositions) that have only one letter. And
it's a consonant! :)
Each language has something unique about it - something that is done with
the tongue, teeth, lips or throat that is not done in other languages. For
instance, in English, the "th" sound is very difficult for non-English
speakers to duplicate because they do not have the equivalent sound.
That's why foreigners, when trying to say something as simple as "I think
so", it usually comes out like "I tink so", or "I zink so", or "I sink so"
or "I dink so." Their tongue is not trained to quickly drag itself
backwards against their top teeth.
Oswald's proficiency in Russian had to rapidly decline once he returned
from the Soviet Union and was no longer immersed in the language. I would
think that he had the vocabulary but that his grammatical skills would
rapidly deteriorate; or, at least, not progress. Russian grammar is a
nightmare for non-native speakers. Adjectives and nouns CHANGE depending
on how they are used in a sentence. Even people's names change. The only
thing that we have in English that remotely comes close to that is our use
of words like I/me, he/him, she/her, they/them.
One would think that if the plan was to have "two Oswalds", curiously
finding an Oswald doppelganger who could apparently fool Marina, that
"they" could teach the double to speak Russian more convincingly.
David Emerling
Memphis, TN
I think the key point here is that this weak and faltering command of the
language shows that Oswald had no or very little formal
education/background/instruction in the language, that it was learned on
the fly and in a rushed manner (as shown in my Shuskevich account). Thus
the poor grammar and syntax. Add the likelihood that after he and Marina
moved to New Orleans that summer that his interaction with Russian
speakers (the White Russian emigres around Dallas/Ft. Worth) - other than
Marina, who was probably reluctant to try to correct his errors -
disappeared. So his command of the language languished.

He meets fluent Russian speakers - the KGB agents/Tarasoff - and they find
his command completely lacking.

Some conspiracists, as you know, argue that he was trained in the language
at the Monterey School of Language, the facility where the military
trained their people. This was part of his intelligence work (Navy/CIA).
But that was formal training - 24+ weeks of intense immersion in the
language - and there's little to indicate that Oswald went to the school.

Sometimes - often really - we try to overthink this event. Because the
assassination was such a historic one, that everything around it had to be
of greater significance. Oswald was what he appeared to be; an angry
disaffected man who wanted to make a mark on history and unfortunately got
a chance to do so.
Mark
2020-12-13 02:51:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steven M. Galbraith
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Steven M. Galbraith
The KGB officials talked to him face-to-face over two days with the second
meeting taking over an hour. They said he has terrible problems with
grammar and pronounciation. Nechiporenko, one of the three men said: "His
pronunciation was bad, and he really mangled the grammar....."
I can't imagine Oswald not having an accent. It's very difficult for an
English-speaker to pronounce Russian words. There are quite a few
one-letter words (usually prepositions) that have only one letter. And
it's a consonant! :)
Each language has something unique about it - something that is done with
the tongue, teeth, lips or throat that is not done in other languages. For
instance, in English, the "th" sound is very difficult for non-English
speakers to duplicate because they do not have the equivalent sound.
That's why foreigners, when trying to say something as simple as "I think
so", it usually comes out like "I tink so", or "I zink so", or "I sink so"
or "I dink so." Their tongue is not trained to quickly drag itself
backwards against their top teeth.
Oswald's proficiency in Russian had to rapidly decline once he returned
from the Soviet Union and was no longer immersed in the language. I would
think that he had the vocabulary but that his grammatical skills would
rapidly deteriorate; or, at least, not progress. Russian grammar is a
nightmare for non-native speakers. Adjectives and nouns CHANGE depending
on how they are used in a sentence. Even people's names change. The only
thing that we have in English that remotely comes close to that is our use
of words like I/me, he/him, she/her, they/them.
One would think that if the plan was to have "two Oswalds", curiously
finding an Oswald doppelganger who could apparently fool Marina, that
"they" could teach the double to speak Russian more convincingly.
David Emerling
Memphis, TN
I think the key point here is that this weak and faltering command of the
language shows that Oswald had no or very little formal
education/background/instruction in the language, that it was learned on
the fly and in a rushed manner (as shown in my Shuskevich account). Thus
the poor grammar and syntax. Add the likelihood that after he and Marina
moved to New Orleans that summer that his interaction with Russian
speakers (the White Russian emigres around Dallas/Ft. Worth) - other than
Marina, who was probably reluctant to try to correct his errors -
disappeared. So his command of the language languished.
He meets fluent Russian speakers - the KGB agents/Tarasoff - and they find
his command completely lacking.
Some conspiracists, as you know, argue that he was trained in the language
at the Monterey School of Language, the facility where the military
trained their people. This was part of his intelligence work (Navy/CIA).
But that was formal training - 24+ weeks of intense immersion in the
language - and there's little to indicate that Oswald went to the school.
Sometimes - often really - we try to overthink this event. Because the
assassination was such a historic one, that everything around it had to be
of greater significance. Oswald was what he appeared to be; an angry
disaffected man who wanted to make a mark on history and unfortunately got
a chance to do so.
You're well informed and very wise about Oswald and the Russian language.
Mark
ajohnstone
2020-12-15 22:49:12 UTC
Permalink
For much of his stay, LHO was located in Minsk which is now in Belarus. It
has its own form of Russian

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belarusian_language

Isn't it possible, as many do inadvertently, he could have pick up the the
local dialect and the accent of his co-workers and neighbors?
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