Who are the threat? - Antifa or the Right Militias

[ajohnstone]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54470427

The FBI has thwarted a plot by the Wolverine Watchmen to abduct and
overthrow Michigan's Governor Gretchen Whitmer and who planned to hold a
"treason trial" for her.

They attempted to identify the homes of law enforcement officers to
“target them, made threats of violence intended to instigate a
civil war”. They also planned and trained for an operation to
attack the Michigan capitol building and to kidnap government officials,
including the governor.

Of course, this could all be FBI fake news but has anybody got details
about any Antifa conspiracies that even come close to this?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/08/six-people-charged-plot-kidnap-michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer

[Steven M. Galbraith]

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54470427
The FBI has thwarted a plot by the Wolverine Watchmen to abduct and
overthrow Michigan's Governor Gretchen Whitmer and who planned to hold a
"treason trial" for her.
They attempted to identify the homes of law enforcement officers to
“target them, made threats of violence intended to instigate a
civil war”. They also planned and trained for an operation to
attack the Michigan capitol building and to kidnap government officials,
including the governor.
Of course, this could all be FBI fake news but has anybody got details
about any Antifa conspiracies that even come close to this?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/08/six-people-charged-plot-kidnap-michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer

Any group - whatever their ideology - that rejects the peaceful political
process that we have in favor of violence to address their grievances are
a threat.

There's some question that some of those Michigan people are anarchists
and not militia types. One expressed his loathing of Trump and had an
anarchist flag in his room. Although the radical right and radical left
tend to come together at some point when it comes to their view of the US
government. Both consider it illegitimate - whether Trump is president or
Biden or Obama.

As to antifa: they've been organizing violent protests in Portland for the
past six months. And in other cities.

[ajohnstone]

"There's some question that some of those Michigan people are anarchists
and not militia types. One expressed his loathing of Trump and had an
anarchist flag in his room."

Are you aware of the "national anarchists"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National-anarchism

They advocate a decentralized economic and political system which features
ethnically-pure villages defined by racial separatism. It is rightist
militias masquerading under the black flag of anarchist belief. After all
there is a a long history of such cross-overs.

http://www.politicalresearch.org/2008/01/28/rebranding-fascism-national-anarchists

I don't think we can equate a lone-wolf assassin in 1963 with a
coordinated conspiracy in 2020 nor the similar lone-wolf shooting of
Scalise in 2017. They are qualitatively very different.

And if the riots are organized by any particular group we await evidence
since the FBI have already dismissed such claims but we do have very silly
stories about Soros-instigators placing supplies of bricks at street
corners.

What is ominous is that similar militias will try to "monitor" polling stations and interfere with if not intimidate prospective voters and i lack confidence that the Republican Party has the ability or willingness to distance itself from them. So I would not be so sure that it will be a "one-day story."

And in the case of a Biden win that is disputed as fraudulent, who can
foretell what may happen.

[Bud]

Post by ajohnstone
"There's some question that some of those Michigan people are anarchists
and not militia types. One expressed his loathing of Trump and had an
anarchist flag in his room."
Are you aware of the "national anarchists"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National-anarchism
They advocate a decentralized economic and political system which features
ethnically-pure villages defined by racial separatism. It is rightist
militias masquerading under the black flag of anarchist belief. After all
there is a a long history of such cross-overs.
http://www.politicalresearch.org/2008/01/28/rebranding-fascism-national-anarchists
I don't think we can equate a lone-wolf assassin in 1963 with a
coordinated conspiracy in 2020 nor the similar lone-wolf shooting of
Scalise in 2017. They are qualitatively very different.
And if the riots are organized by any particular group we await evidence
since the FBI have already dismissed such claims but we do have very silly
stories about Soros-instigators placing supplies of bricks at street
corners.
What is ominous is that similar militias will try to "monitor" polling stations and interfere with if not intimidate prospective voters and i lack confidence that the Republican Party has the ability or willingness to distance itself from them. So I would not be so sure that it will be a "one-day story."

Here in Philadelphia in 2008 the New Black Panthers had 300 of it`s
members fan out across the city`s polling places.

Would you have have seen this as "ominous" and voiced concern about the
Democrats not condemning this activity?

Post by ajohnstone
And in the case of a Biden win that is disputed as fraudulent, who can
foretell what may happen.

It is clear that leftists have been fighting for years to keep the
voting regulations as lax as they could so they could cheat.

[ajohnstone]

Surely you are not going to dispute the very long history of
gerrymandering and voter suppression of the minorities vote and the
imposition of the Jim Crow and Juan Crow electoral rules.

But i expect some will say that those were past "mistakes" and now have
been corrected.

Yet we still see logistical obstacles placed to undermine voter numbers,
something again that runs counter to the practices of all other developed
democracies who are intent upon making voting easier for their population
and to acrtually adapt the whole electoral process to one that is more
reflective of citizens wishes. There appears little public concern about
the persistence of the two-party, Tweedledum-Tweedledummer ping-pong
politics in the USA. If bi-partisanship is what many Americans seek
according to polls, then creating a electoral structure that requires more
often than not government coalitions and compromise surely should be
seriously considered.

How can the recent restrictions by Texas on mail-in drop off points be
considered facilitating democracy? Ridding counties of drop-boxes makes it
more difficult for people to be able to exercise their right to vote in a
state that already has stringent conditions for absentee voting. It is as
if many politicians in America simply do not want to risk their position
by putting it to a proper ballot. And i exempt neither party from
criticism. Democrats gerrymander when they are in a position to do it just
like Republicans do. It is simply more problematic now for the Democrats
because Republicans control more individual states. As they say, if the
shoe was on the other foot...

[Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)]

Post by ajohnstone
Surely you are not going to dispute the very long history of
gerrymandering and voter suppression of the minorities vote and the
imposition of the Jim Crow and Juan Crow electoral rules.
But i expect some will say that those were past "mistakes" and now have
been corrected.
Yet we still see logistical obstacles placed to undermine voter numbers,
something again that runs counter to the practices of all other developed
democracies who are intent upon making voting easier for their population
and to acrtually adapt the whole electoral process to one that is more
reflective of citizens wishes. There appears little public concern about
the persistence of the two-party, Tweedledum-Tweedledummer ping-pong
politics in the USA. If bi-partisanship is what many Americans seek
according to polls, then creating a electoral structure that requires more
often than not government coalitions and compromise surely should be
seriously considered.
How can the recent restrictions by Texas on mail-in drop off points be
considered facilitating democracy? Ridding counties of drop-boxes makes it
more difficult for people to be able to exercise their right to vote in a
state that already has stringent conditions for absentee voting. It is as
if many politicians in America simply do not want to risk their position
by putting it to a proper ballot. And i exempt neither party from
criticism. Democrats gerrymander when they are in a position to do it just
like Republicans do. It is simply more problematic now for the Democrats
because Republicans control more individual states. As they say, if the
shoe was on the other foot...

Moving the goalposts. Your original complaint was that leftists like those
in Antifa would be caught dead trying to kidnap a governor. Given examples
of leftists shooting politicians, you simply move the goalposts.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)

Post by ajohnstone
Surely you are not going to dispute the very long history of
gerrymandering and voter suppression of the minorities vote and the
imposition of the Jim Crow and Juan Crow electoral rules.
But i expect some will say that those were past "mistakes" and now have
been corrected.
Yet we still see logistical obstacles placed to undermine voter numbers,
something again that runs counter to the practices of all other developed
democracies who are intent upon making voting easier for their population
and to acrtually adapt the whole electoral process to one that is more

Pure Fascism. You don't believe in DEMOCRACY. wHAT COUNTRY ARE YOU
FROM? yOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TELL US how to run our county.

Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)

Post by ajohnstone
reflective of citizens wishes. There appears little public concern about
the persistence of the two-party, Tweedledum-Tweedledummer ping-pong
politics in the USA. If bi-partisanship is what many Americans seek
according to polls, then creating a electoral structure that requires more
often than not government coalitions and compromise surely should be
seriously considered.
How can the recent restrictions by Texas on mail-in drop off points be
considered facilitating democracy? Ridding counties of drop-boxes makes it
more difficult for people to be able to exercise their right to vote in a
state that already has stringent conditions for absentee voting. It is as
if many politicians in America simply do not want to risk their position
by putting it to a proper ballot. And i exempt neither party from
criticism. Democrats gerrymander when they are in a position to do it just
like Republicans do. It is simply more problematic now for the Democrats
because Republicans control more individual states. As they say, if the
shoe was on the other foot...

Moving the goalposts. Your original complaint was that leftists like those
in Antifa would be caught dead trying to kidnap a governor. Given examples
of leftists shooting politicians, you simply move the goalposts.

[ajohnstone]

The threat of election interference from militias grow.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/14/armed-militias-conspiracy-theorists-anti-vaxxers-red-pill-expo

Stewart Rhodes, president of the Oath Keepers, ““You must
organize yourselves in the next 30 days in your towns and counties...we
will have our men deployed outside the polling stations to make sure you
are protected, especially in swing states”.

[Bud]

Post by ajohnstone
The threat of election interference from militias grow.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/14/armed-militias-conspiracy-theorists-anti-vaxxers-red-pill-expo
Stewart Rhodes, president of the Oath Keepers, ““You must
organize yourselves in the next 30 days in your towns and counties...we
will have our men deployed outside the polling stations to make sure you
are protected, especially in swing states”.

I`d feel safer if they were at my polling place.

[ajohnstone]

Post by Bud
I`d feel safer if they were at my polling place.

You would because you are white and native-born intending to vote for
Trump and therefore will not be accosted and have your right to cast your
ballot challenged by someone who is not an accredited election official
but a complete stranger perhaps brandishing a weapon.

I have been an election official and i have monitored the vote results -
there are many more non-threatening ways to go about it than being
proposed.

[Bud]

Post by ajohnstone

Post by Bud
I`d feel safer if they were at my polling place.

You would because you are white and native-born intending to vote for
Trump and therefore will not be accosted and have your right to cast your
ballot challenged by someone who is not an accredited election official
but a complete stranger perhaps brandishing a weapon.

You mean like happened here in Philly...

http://youtu.be/neGbKHyGuHU

Now show an instance of your imaginary scenario. People on the right
these days aren`t going try to intimidate people into not voting, it could
never happen, one phone call and all the federal, state and local
authorities will be mobilized. We`d be happy if they were only allowed to
vote once.

Post by ajohnstone
I have been an election official and i have monitored the vote results -
there are many more non-threatening ways to go about it than being
proposed.

[ajohnstone]

"We`d be happy if they were only allowed to vote once."

You appear to be echoing the false claims that there is widespread voter
fraud in the USA. No evidence has ever been shown that it is on a large
scale or of any statistical significance.

If the plan for all those thousands of Republican "monitors" materialized
and if it happened in Venezuela. i am sure there would be many here
claiming quite justifiably that it was rigging the elections.

Of course, we also get the right-wing message that Biden and Harris have
been "captured" by the left. The reason being is that they cannot refer to
either's past record which fully reveals that they are law'n'order
politicians. Biden practically wrote the 1994 Crime Bill that resulted in
mass incarceration, mostly of minorities.

So it is necessary to invent some sort plot within the Democratic Party to
show they have no longer any political power.. The influence of AOC and
others can be seen by their begging letter to Biden not to appoint Wall St
Corporate executives. If they held real power, no such letter would be
required.

I'm sure you will reject a gun control advocate out of hand but here is a
link to read

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/18/guns-are-a-way-to-exercise-power-how-the-idea-of-overthrowing-the-government-became-mainstream

[Bud]

Post by ajohnstone
"We`d be happy if they were only allowed to vote once."
You appear to be echoing the false claims that there is widespread voter
fraud in the USA. No evidence has ever been shown that it is on a large
scale or of any statistical significance.

You seem worried that right wing group might scare off a handful of
voters but unconcerned with threats that have the potential to do much
worse.

It is illegal for non-citizens to vote in Federal elections, yet they do
in droves and it does have an impact on our elections...

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0261379414000973

Post by ajohnstone
If the plan for all those thousands of Republican "monitors" materialized
and if it happened in Venezuela. i am sure there would be many here
claiming quite justifiably that it was rigging the elections.
Of course, we also get the right-wing message that Biden and Harris have
been "captured" by the left. The reason being is that they cannot refer to
either's past record which fully reveals that they are law'n'order
politicians. Biden practically wrote the 1994 Crime Bill that resulted in
mass incarceration, mostly of minorities.
So it is necessary to invent some sort plot within the Democratic Party to
show they have no longer any political power.. The influence of AOC and
others can be seen by their begging letter to Biden not to appoint Wall St
Corporate executives. If they held real power, no such letter would be
required.
I'm sure you will reject a gun control advocate out of hand but here is a
link to read
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/18/guns-are-a-way-to-exercise-power-how-the-idea-of-overthrowing-the-government-became-mainstream

Only one valid statement in the whole article, and that is a throw away
line...

"The idea that individuals have the right to fight against tyranny is as
old as the republic."

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/gun-quotations-founding-fathers

This isn`t some new "thing" despite this article`s attempt to portray it
as such.

[ajohnstone]

It is a shame you do not bother to do deeper research into studies that
you believe support your pre-conceived conceptions.

The full significance (or rather the insignificance) of that citation of
yours is explained here

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hillary-clinton-800000-votes-non-citizens/

Or as one of the authors of the study explained, "What extrapolation I did
to the 2016 election was purely and explicitly and exclusively for the
purpose of pointing out that my 2014 study of the 2008 election did not
provide evidence of voter fraud at the level some Trump administration
people were claiming it did."

And even his earlier research of non-citizens voting was declared invalid by
other experts.

"As a member of the team that produces the datasets upon which that study
was based and as the co-author of an article published in the same journal
that provides a clear “take down” of the study in
question, I can say unequivocally that this research is not only wrong, it
is irresponsible social science and should never have been published in
the first place. There is no evidence that non-citizens have voted in
recent U.S. elections."

Better luck next time, Bud, at grasping at straws

[Bud]

Post by ajohnstone
It is a shame you do not bother to do deeper research into studies that
you believe support your pre-conceived conceptions.
The full significance (or rather the insignificance) of that citation of
yours is explained here
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hillary-clinton-800000-votes-non-citizens/
Or as one of the authors of the study explained, "What extrapolation I did
to the 2016 election was purely and explicitly and exclusively for the
purpose of pointing out that my 2014 study of the 2008 election did not
provide evidence of voter fraud at the level some Trump administration
people were claiming it did."
And even his earlier research of non-citizens voting was declared invalid by
other experts.
"As a member of the team that produces the datasets upon which that study
was based and as the co-author of an article published in the same journal
that provides a clear “take down” of the study in
question, I can say unequivocally that this research is not only wrong, it
is irresponsible social science and should never have been published in
the first place. There is no evidence that non-citizens have voted in
recent U.S. elections."

No evidence? In Texas...

https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/news/releases/ag-paxtons-election-fraud-unit-obtains-jail-sentence-deportation-non-citizen-charged-voter

"In 2018 alone, Paxton's office has prosecuted "33 defendants for a
total of 97 election fraud violations," compared with a total of 97
prosecutions on similar charges for the 12-year period between 2005 and
2017, according to a release this month from Paxton's office."

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/28/661020113/ahead-of-the-2018-election-texas-ag-ramps-up-voter-fraud-prosecutions

North Carolina...

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/24/us/north-carolina-illegal-voters.html

Washington...

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/aug/24/feds-charge-19-noncitizens-illegally-voting-2016/

Pennsylvania...

"Pennsylvania officials estimated that the noncitizens they identified
cast 544 votes from 2000 through 2017..."

"estimate". They have no idea, it could be many times that number.

So your claim that this doesn`t happen doesn`t hold water. And if you
want to say the number is small, how many people are scared away from
voting by militia members? Yet you seem to see this as a serious problem.

Post by ajohnstone
Better luck next time, Bud, at grasping at straws

Then why are leftists so afraid to tighten up the voting with ID
requirements. The reason is simple, they benefit from the lax system in
place now.

[John Corbett]

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone
It is a shame you do not bother to do deeper research into studies that
you believe support your pre-conceived conceptions.
The full significance (or rather the insignificance) of that citation of
yours is explained here
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hillary-clinton-800000-votes-non-citizens/
Or as one of the authors of the study explained, "What extrapolation I did
to the 2016 election was purely and explicitly and exclusively for the
purpose of pointing out that my 2014 study of the 2008 election did not
provide evidence of voter fraud at the level some Trump administration
people were claiming it did."
And even his earlier research of non-citizens voting was declared invalid by
other experts.
"As a member of the team that produces the datasets upon which that study
was based and as the co-author of an article published in the same journal
that provides a clear “take down” of the study in
question, I can say unequivocally that this research is not only wrong, it
is irresponsible social science and should never have been published in
the first place. There is no evidence that non-citizens have voted in
recent U.S. elections."

No evidence? In Texas...
https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/news/releases/ag-paxtons-election-fraud-unit-obtains-jail-sentence-deportation-non-citizen-charged-voter
"In 2018 alone, Paxton's office has prosecuted "33 defendants for a
total of 97 election fraud violations," compared with a total of 97
prosecutions on similar charges for the 12-year period between 2005 and
2017, according to a release this month from Paxton's office."
https://www.npr.org/2018/10/28/661020113/ahead-of-the-2018-election-texas-ag-ramps-up-voter-fraud-prosecutions
North Carolina...
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/24/us/north-carolina-illegal-voters.html
Washington...
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/aug/24/feds-charge-19-noncitizens-illegally-voting-2016/
Pennsylvania...
"Pennsylvania officials estimated that the noncitizens they identified
cast 544 votes from 2000 through 2017..."
"estimate". They have no idea, it could be many times that number.

They only know about the ones that get caught. No telling how many got
away with it.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone
It is a shame you do not bother to do deeper research into studies that
you believe support your pre-conceived conceptions.
The full significance (or rather the insignificance) of that citation of
yours is explained here
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hillary-clinton-800000-votes-non-citizens/
Or as one of the authors of the study explained, "What extrapolation I did
to the 2016 election was purely and explicitly and exclusively for the
purpose of pointing out that my 2014 study of the 2008 election did not
provide evidence of voter fraud at the level some Trump administration
people were claiming it did."
And even his earlier research of non-citizens voting was declared invalid by
other experts.
"As a member of the team that produces the datasets upon which that study
was based and as the co-author of an article published in the same journal
that provides a clear ???take down??? of the study in
question, I can say unequivocally that this research is not only wrong, it
is irresponsible social science and should never have been published in
the first place. There is no evidence that non-citizens have voted in
recent U.S. elections."

No evidence? In Texas...
https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/news/releases/ag-paxtons-election-fraud-unit-obtains-jail-sentence-deportation-non-citizen-charged-voter
"In 2018 alone, Paxton's office has prosecuted "33 defendants for a
total of 97 election fraud violations," compared with a total of 97
prosecutions on similar charges for the 12-year period between 2005 and
2017, according to a release this month from Paxton's office."
https://www.npr.org/2018/10/28/661020113/ahead-of-the-2018-election-texas-ag-ramps-up-voter-fraud-prosecutions
North Carolina...
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/24/us/north-carolina-illegal-voters.html
Washington...
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/aug/24/feds-charge-19-noncitizens-illegally-voting-2016/
Pennsylvania...
"Pennsylvania officials estimated that the noncitizens they identified
cast 544 votes from 2000 through 2017..."
"estimate". They have no idea, it could be many times that number.
So your claim that this doesn`t happen doesn`t hold water. And if you
want to say the number is small, how many people are scared away from
voting by militia members? Yet you seem to see this as a serious problem.

Post by ajohnstone
Better luck next time, Bud, at grasping at straws

Then why are leftists so afraid to tighten up the voting with ID
requirements. The reason is simple, they benefit from the lax system in
place now.

They aren't silly. You're just making up crap to excuse Trump losing.

[Bud]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone
It is a shame you do not bother to do deeper research into studies that
you believe support your pre-conceived conceptions.
The full significance (or rather the insignificance) of that citation of
yours is explained here
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hillary-clinton-800000-votes-non-citizens/
Or as one of the authors of the study explained, "What extrapolation I did
to the 2016 election was purely and explicitly and exclusively for the
purpose of pointing out that my 2014 study of the 2008 election did not
provide evidence of voter fraud at the level some Trump administration
people were claiming it did."
And even his earlier research of non-citizens voting was declared invalid by
other experts.
"As a member of the team that produces the datasets upon which that study
was based and as the co-author of an article published in the same journal
that provides a clear ???take down??? of the study in
question, I can say unequivocally that this research is not only wrong, it
is irresponsible social science and should never have been published in
the first place. There is no evidence that non-citizens have voted in
recent U.S. elections."

No evidence? In Texas...
https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/news/releases/ag-paxtons-election-fraud-unit-obtains-jail-sentence-deportation-non-citizen-charged-voter
"In 2018 alone, Paxton's office has prosecuted "33 defendants for a
total of 97 election fraud violations," compared with a total of 97
prosecutions on similar charges for the 12-year period between 2005 and
2017, according to a release this month from Paxton's office."
https://www.npr.org/2018/10/28/661020113/ahead-of-the-2018-election-texas-ag-ramps-up-voter-fraud-prosecutions
North Carolina...
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/24/us/north-carolina-illegal-voters.html
Washington...
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/aug/24/feds-charge-19-noncitizens-illegally-voting-2016/
Pennsylvania...
"Pennsylvania officials estimated that the noncitizens they identified
cast 544 votes from 2000 through 2017..."
"estimate". They have no idea, it could be many times that number.
So your claim that this doesn`t happen doesn`t hold water. And if you
want to say the number is small, how many people are scared away from
voting by militia members? Yet you seem to see this as a serious problem.

Post by ajohnstone
Better luck next time, Bud, at grasping at straws

Then why are leftists so afraid to tighten up the voting with ID
requirements. The reason is simple, they benefit from the lax system in
place now.

They aren't silly. You're just making up crap to excuse Trump losing.

Liberals don`t want anyone to talk about their cheating to steal the
election. The ends justify the means, every leftist is mobilized and doing
whatever it takes to make sure Trump isn`t reelected, every journalist
writes every story with one goal in mind, to make the orange man look bad.
I expect they will cheat enough and convince enough people to get China`s
frontman in office, but who knows? I doubt many like Biden, but lots of
people despise Trump.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by ajohnstone
It is a shame you do not bother to do deeper research into studies that
you believe support your pre-conceived conceptions.

Who? Name names or quote someone.
YOU have never been to the National Archives or gotten documents
declassified.

Post by ajohnstone
The full significance (or rather the insignificance) of that citation of
yours is explained here
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hillary-clinton-800000-votes-non-citizens/
Or as one of the authors of the study explained, "What extrapolation I did
to the 2016 election was purely and explicitly and exclusively for the
purpose of pointing out that my 2014 study of the 2008 election did not
provide evidence of voter fraud at the level some Trump administration
people were claiming it did."
And even his earlier research of non-citizens voting was declared invalid by
other experts.
"As a member of the team that produces the datasets upon which that study
was based and as the co-author of an article published in the same journal
that provides a clear ???take down??? of the study in
question, I can say unequivocally that this research is not only wrong, it
is irresponsible social science and should never have been published in
the first place. There is no evidence that non-citizens have voted in
recent U.S. elections."
Better luck next time, Bud, at grasping at straws

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone
"We`d be happy if they were only allowed to vote once."
You appear to be echoing the false claims that there is widespread voter
fraud in the USA. No evidence has ever been shown that it is on a large
scale or of any statistical significance.

You seem worried that right wing group might scare off a handful of
voters but unconcerned with threats that have the potential to do much
worse.
It is illegal for non-citizens to vote in Federal elections, yet they do
i

THAT is not true. You are just repeating rump Xenophobia.

in droves and it does have an impact on our elections...

Post by Bud
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0261379414000973

Post by ajohnstone
If the plan for all those thousands of Republican "monitors" materialized
and if it happened in Venezuela. i am sure there would be many here
claiming quite justifiably that it was rigging the elections.
Of course, we also get the right-wing message that Biden and Harris have
been "captured" by the left. The reason being is that they cannot refer to
either's past record which fully reveals that they are law'n'order
politicians. Biden practically wrote the 1994 Crime Bill that resulted in
mass incarceration, mostly of minorities.
So it is necessary to invent some sort plot within the Democratic Party to
show they have no longer any political power.. The influence of AOC and
others can be seen by their begging letter to Biden not to appoint Wall St
Corporate executives. If they held real power, no such letter would be
required.
I'm sure you will reject a gun control advocate out of hand but here is a
link to read
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/18/guns-are-a-way-to-exercise-power-how-the-idea-of-overthrowing-the-government-became-mainstream

Only one valid statement in the whole article, and that is a throw away
line...
"The idea that individuals have the right to fight against tyranny is as
old as the republic."

SO, you are endorsing terrorism.

Post by Bud
https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/gun-quotations-founding-fathers
This isn`t some new "thing" despite this article`s attempt to portray it
as such.

[Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)]

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone

Post by Bud
I`d feel safer if they were at my polling place.

You would because you are white and native-born intending to vote for
Trump and therefore will not be accosted and have your right to cast your
ballot challenged by someone who is not an accredited election official
but a complete stranger perhaps brandishing a weapon.

You mean like happened here in Philly...
http://youtu.be/neGbKHyGuHU
Now show an instance of your imaginary scenario. People on the right
these days aren`t going try to intimidate people into not voting, it could
never happen, one phone call and all the federal, state and local
authorities will be mobilized. We`d be happy if they were only allowed to
vote once.

Post by ajohnstone
I have been an election official and i have monitored the vote results -
there are many more non-threatening ways to go about it than being
proposed.

You can't come out in favor of free speech without losing teerh to antifa
(called "critics") in this piece:

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2020/10/18/conservatives-staging-free-speech-rally-attacked-by-critics/24654917/

[ajohnstone]

I have been a member of a socialist organisation that itself has been a
target from the left for the audacity to defend the free speech of
fascists and racists and to dare to engage in a civilized debate with
them. I need no reminding that on the left there exist authoritarians who
seek to shut down democracy.

When a group uses intimidation against the another the result is either,
firstly, to drive such opinions underground to only re-surface in another
form, or, secondly, it portrays them as victims and elicits sympathy.

But most importantly, it is a simple fact is that you cannot change
viewpoints with fists and boots, you cannot kick ideas into another's
head.

But unlike some on this list, i condemn ALL political violence, even in
self-defense, from ALL sides as futile.

[John Corbett]

Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone

Post by Bud
I`d feel safer if they were at my polling place.

You would because you are white and native-born intending to vote for
Trump and therefore will not be accosted and have your right to cast your
ballot challenged by someone who is not an accredited election official
but a complete stranger perhaps brandishing a weapon.

You mean like happened here in Philly...
http://youtu.be/neGbKHyGuHU
Now show an instance of your imaginary scenario. People on the right
these days aren`t going try to intimidate people into not voting, it could
never happen, one phone call and all the federal, state and local
authorities will be mobilized. We`d be happy if they were only allowed to
vote once.

Post by ajohnstone
I have been an election official and i have monitored the vote results -
there are many more non-threatening ways to go about it than being
proposed.

You can't come out in favor of free speech without losing teerh to antifa
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2020/10/18/conservatives-staging-free-speech-rally-attacked-by-critics/24654917/

This is why we need the right to keep and bear arms. We need to be able to
defend ourselves from goons like these because the police won't.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by John Corbett

Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone

Post by Bud
I`d feel safer if they were at my polling place.

You would because you are white and native-born intending to vote for
Trump and therefore will not be accosted and have your right to cast your
ballot challenged by someone who is not an accredited election official
but a complete stranger perhaps brandishing a weapon.

You mean like happened here in Philly...
http://youtu.be/neGbKHyGuHU
Now show an instance of your imaginary scenario. People on the right
these days aren`t going try to intimidate people into not voting, it could
never happen, one phone call and all the federal, state and local
authorities will be mobilized. We`d be happy if they were only allowed to
vote once.

Post by ajohnstone
I have been an election official and i have monitored the vote results -
there are many more non-threatening ways to go about it than being
proposed.

You can't come out in favor of free speech without losing teerh to antifa

Silly. You thhink Antifa is the only one who wants free speech? We allow
YOUR free speech.

Post by John Corbett

Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2020/10/18/conservatives-staging-free-speech-rally-attacked-by-critics/24654917/

This is why we need the right to keep and bear arms. We need to be able to
defend ourselves from goons like these because the police won't.

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2020/10/18/conservatives-staging-free-speech-rally-attacked-by-critics/24654917/




What? To kill others who are exercising their free speech? You are
advocaating terrorism,

[ajohnstone]

Oh, i forgot Bud's golden rule. "I accept only the evidence that will
agree with me, and the evidence that does not concur with my beliefs is
unreliable."

Look at your figures...handfuls that are insignificant when it comes to
election outcomes. Many are technical offenses where intent was not
malicious.

And no, they are not a sign of a greater hidden problem.

In fact there more people disallowed from voting when they are fully
entitled to cast a ballot. It is voter suppression that is the real issue.
4.7 million residents of Harris County have one mail-in drop-box. Loving
County population 169 also has one. Sensible?

If only the same effort was put to urge the use of the vote and make the
process easier to involve people to participate in a electoral process.
After all, that is what real democracies do...encourage people to vote and
use procedures that assist in that aim. And strange, more fraud has not
been a major result.

[Bud]

Post by ajohnstone
Oh, i forgot Bud's golden rule. "I accept only the evidence that will
agree with me, and the evidence that does not concur with my beliefs is
unreliable."

People are being convicted in courts of law for illegal voting. I assume
that takes evidence, and you claimed there was no evidence. How strange.

Post by ajohnstone
Look at your figures...handfuls that are insignificant when it comes to
election outcomes.

Yet you thought it was significant that you imagined right wing militia
members turning up at polling places and preventing what could only be
possibly a handful of people from voting (which would be instantly
nationwide news and stopped immediately). Can you show that happening even
once?

Post by ajohnstone
Many are technical offenses where intent was not
malicious.

All would be prevented if ID was required to vote.

Post by ajohnstone
And no, they are not a sign of a greater hidden problem.

Of course there is, the greater hidden problem is that there are so many
people in this country illegally to begin with.

Post by ajohnstone
In fact there more people disallowed from voting when they are fully
entitled to cast a ballot. It is voter suppression that is the real issue.
4.7 million residents of Harris County have one mail-in drop-box. Loving
County population 169 also has one. Sensible?

How many polling places?

Post by ajohnstone
If only the same effort was put to urge the use of the vote and make the
process easier to involve people to participate in a electoral process.

It is easier to vote than it is to order a pizza.

The real problem is the right has a generally hard working constituency
and the left`s constituency is lazy and is being paid by the government to
lay around and do drugs all day. The left`s constituency is too lazy to
get out and vote so eventually they will have to devise a plan where the
polling machines are rolled to where the lazy junkies are and the handle
is pulled for them.

Post by ajohnstone
After all, that is what real democracies do...encourage people to vote and
use procedures that assist in that aim. And strange, more fraud has not
been a major result.

Because fraud isn`t looked for. The only reason the left is unconcerned
with fraud is because they know they benefit from it.

[ajohnstone]

Is the the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) reliable,
Bud?

White supremacists and other rightwing extremists have been responsible
for 67% of domestic terror attacks and plots so far this year, with at
least half of that violence targeting protesters.

Rightwingers were responsible for 41 politically motivated attacks and
plots this year, while the “far-left” was responsible for
12.

The percentage of rightwing domestic terrorism attacks would have been
higher if CSIS had categorized “boogaloo” anti-government
extremists as rightwing, as many experts do. Instead, they classified the
emerging violent movement as “other”.

Only a single deadly “far-left” attack in 2020, the
shooting of Aaron Danielson, a rightwing activist, by a self-described
“anti-fascist” during a protest in Portland this August.
The first killing linked to an anti-fascist in the United States in 25
years.

Four people died from rightwing domestic terror incidents this year
through 31 August. The analysts did not see a clear “political
motivation” by the alleged 17-year-old shooter, Kyle Rittenhouse,
or evidence that the killings had been premeditate

The 11 non-fatal incidents analysts coded as “far-left political
violence” include the burning of a police precinct in Minneapolis
that was known locally as “a playground for renegade
cops”; attempts to set police cars on fire in New York City and
Tacoma, Washington; molotov cocktail and other incendiary attacks on
government buildings in Portland, Seattle, and Apple Valley, Minnesota;
and an assault on a Democratic state senator who was filming protesters
tearing down statues in Wisconsin.

The non-fatal rightwing attacks include a knife attack that wounded three
members of an Asian-American family in Texas; a shooting at a shopping
center in Arizona by a man prosecutors said was part of the misogynistic
“incel” movement; multiple terror plots by The Base, a
neo-Nazi group trying to instigate a race war; and several threats and
violent incidents linked to the QAnon conspiracy theory.

[Bud]

Post by ajohnstone
Is the the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) reliable,
Bud?

If what you are producing below is any indication, no.

Post by ajohnstone
White supremacists and other rightwing extremists have been responsible
for 67% of domestic terror attacks and plots so far this year,

You`re joking, right? Every riot that went on in this country for months
was a domestic terror attack.

Tim Pool has an excellent video on how the left tracks incidents here...

The ADL had *zero* incidents of left wing extremists incidents at the
height of the riots.

Post by ajohnstone
with at
least half of that violence targeting protesters.

Are they even showing up at these events? The only time I saw any
presence that could be considered "rightwing" was that kid in Kenosha, and
he was attacked.

Every time ant right leaning group tries to have an event the left shows
up and attacks them.

Post by ajohnstone
Rightwingers were responsible for 41 politically motivated attacks and
plots this year, while the “far-left” was responsible for
12.

Watch this video, you`ll see hundred, perhaps thousands of political
attacks by the left...

And I don`t suppose this 71 year old Kenosha man counts as an attack...

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/aug/27/robert-cobb-71-year-old-kenosha-man-attacked-by-ri/

Now, if there was a right wing event, and someone was attacked, it would
be a right wing attack. I can guarantee you that this doesn`t count as a
left wing attack *anywhere*. None of the attacks in any of the riots
count. The left just plays crooked games with information.

Post by ajohnstone
The percentage of rightwing domestic terrorism attacks would have been
higher if CSIS had categorized “boogaloo” anti-government
extremists as rightwing, as many experts do. Instead, they classified the
emerging violent movement as “other”.
Only a single deadly “far-left” attack in 2020, the
shooting of Aaron Danielson, a rightwing activist, by a self-described
“anti-fascist” during a protest in Portland this August.
The first killing linked to an anti-fascist in the United States in 25
years.

You are just playing silly games with numbers. What about that retired
Saint Louise police captain who was skilled by rioters in St Louis? What
about the murders in that section of Seattle the leftists took over?

Post by ajohnstone
Four people died from rightwing domestic terror incidents this year
through 31 August. The analysts did not see a clear “political
motivation” by the alleged 17-year-old shooter, Kyle Rittenhouse,
or evidence that the killings had been premeditate
The 11 non-fatal incidents analysts coded as “far-left political
violence” include the burning of a police precinct in Minneapolis
that was known locally as “a playground for renegade
cops”; attempts to set police cars on fire in New York City and
Tacoma, Washington; molotov cocktail and other incendiary attacks on
government buildings in Portland, Seattle, and Apple Valley, Minnesota;
and an assault on a Democratic state senator who was filming protesters
tearing down statues in Wisconsin.

What about the two cops shot in Los Angeles?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/12/us/los-angeles-county-officers-shot-compton/index.html

Post by ajohnstone
The non-fatal rightwing attacks include a knife attack that wounded three
members of an Asian-American family in Texas; a shooting at a shopping
center in Arizona by a man prosecutors said was part of the misogynistic
“incel” movement; multiple terror plots by The Base, a
neo-Nazi group trying to instigate a race war; and several threats and
violent incidents linked to the QAnon conspiracy theory.

Let me do the counting. Let me decide what is a right wing attack and
what is not. The incel movement isn`t right wing, and what the hell is a
QAnon "threat"? Isn`t "No Justice, No Peace" a threat? Doesn`t BLM say
this all the time?

[ajohnstone]

The CSIS data is specifically for January 1 and August 31, 2020 which excludes your two more recent examples.

It can be read here
https://www.csis.org/analysis/war-comes-home-evolution-domestic-terrorism-united-states

And who are we to believe?

In October 2020, that crypto liberal left-wing organization, the U.S.
Department of Homeland Security concluded that “racially and
ethnically motivated violent extremists—specifically white
supremacist extremists (WSEs)—will remain the most persistent and
lethal threat in the Homeland.”

That reflects the finding of that pseudo-commie British MI5 that
"Fast-growing right-wing terrorism remains the biggest threat"

The UN Security Council's Counterterrorism Committee says there's been a
320 per cent increase in right-wing terrorism globally in the five years
prior to 2020.

Then there is the think-tank The Munich Security Repor "Although most
right-wing extremists conduct their attacks alone, they are increasingly
embedded in transnational networks. These networks rely on a strong sense
of common identity, based on the belief in white supremacy and the
perceived need to protect it... these attacks do not describe
“one-off events, but a loosely coordinated chain of far-right
attacks across the world..."

Post by Bud
What about the two cops shot in Los Angeles?

So you equate every criminal act against the police as politically
motivated terrorism. Can you refer me to any police statement that
suggested Murray had a link with any politics. I couldn't find any
reporting of such from a quick google-search.

Having been lectured upon hyperbole that it is not lying the "perhaps
thousands of political attacks by the left..." is an exaggeration of
reality. Data compiled by the Armed Conflict Location and Event Data
Project (ACLED) found that out of 10,600 demonstrations between May and
August, 570 involved violence - so more than 10,000 were peaceful
demonstrations.

[Bud]

Post by ajohnstone
The CSIS data is specifically for January 1 and August 31, 2020 which excludes your two more recent examples.
It can be read here
https://www.csis.org/analysis/war-comes-home-evolution-domestic-terrorism-united-states
And who are we to believe?

No leftist sources, that`s for sure.

Post by ajohnstone
In October 2020, that crypto liberal left-wing organization, the U.S.
Department of Homeland Security concluded that “racially and
ethnically motivated violent extremists—specifically white
supremacist extremists (WSEs)—will remain the most persistent and
lethal threat in the Homeland.”

Yes, they are the ones rioting and burning cities down. They are the
ones who caused the 2 billion dollars worth of damage during the recent
uprisings.

I think I will continue to believe what I see.

Post by ajohnstone
That reflects the finding of that pseudo-commie British MI5 that
"Fast-growing right-wing terrorism remains the biggest threat"

I think both the US and British governments should handle right wing
terrorism the same way they handle Islamic terrorism, right wing
viewpoints should be coddled and any acts of violence committed by the
right should be covered up, downplayed or ignored. They should be
apologists for right wing violence in the same manner they are apologists
for Islamic violence.

Post by ajohnstone
The UN Security Council's Counterterrorism Committee says there's been a
320 per cent increase in right-wing terrorism globally in the five years
prior to 2020.
Then there is the think-tank The Munich Security Report "Although most
right-wing extremists conduct their attacks alone, they are increasingly
embedded in transnational networks. These networks rely on a strong sense
of common identity, based on the belief in white supremacy and the
perceived need to protect it... these attacks do not describe
“one-off events, but a loosely coordinated chain of far-right
attacks across the world..."

Tell me again how Antifa isn`t a group. Let`s look into the online
practices of all the rioters who were arrested during the disturbances,
what do they do? Nobody looks because nobody interested. Yet I`m supposed
to be interested in what other people feel is important. 99% of all
violent attacks (any time someone throws a rock or punches someone) this
year have been perpetuated by leftists. They started the "punch a nazi"
stuff.

And the right wing violence you are referring to has no chance to effect
any change whatsoever in favor of right wing ideas. Nobody is going to say
"we better appease these guys to stop the violence". The only effect will
be tighter security, tighter gun laws, more laws against hate groups
(which means "white groups, BTW). But the left wing violence has had all
kinds of effects dictated by the left. Money has poured into BLM (much
from corporations), school curriculums changed, laws enacted, political
indoctrination implemented, statues removed, building renamed, ect, all in
attempt to appease the violent mobs of the left.

Post by ajohnstone

Post by Bud
What about the two cops shot in Los Angeles?

So you equate every criminal act against the police as politically
motivated terrorism.

So you admit your way of collecting the data is heavily biased.

Post by ajohnstone
Can you refer me to any police statement that
suggested Murray had a link with any politics. I couldn't find any
reporting of such from a quick google-search.

A day after the Arbery shooting a black guy went into a veteran`s
cemetery and shot and killed two white people visiting their sons grave.
Never heard anything about motivation. When that black guy shot and killed
fives cops in Dallas a while back, I never saw them look into his
background to see if he was connected to BLM. Yet when that kid shot some
people in Kenosha, the media immediately scoured his background to see if
he was associated with any right wing groups. I don`t expect anyone giving
me this information to be unbiased and giving me facts. If something looks
like a leftist attack to me, I count it as a leftist attack, I don`t need
to to be vetted or sanctioned by the powers that be.

Post by ajohnstone
Having been lectured upon hyperbole that it is not lying the "perhaps
thousands of political attacks by the left..." is an exaggeration of
reality.

You didn`t hit the link I provided, did you? It *showed* hundreds or
thousands of violent attacks. Not hyperbole, hundreds or thousands of
actual violent attacks.

Post by ajohnstone
Data compiled by the Armed Conflict Location and Event Data
Project (ACLED) found that out of 10,600 demonstrations between May and
August, 570 involved violence - so more than 10,000 were peaceful
demonstrations.

Who counts and what is the criteria? If a bunch of protesters get in the
face of people and scream at them, is that peaceful? If they block a
street and pound on the cars that go by, is that peaceful? If somebody
just happens to get punched in the face in the vicinity of a protest, is
that peaceful? Show me that there we zero acts of violence that could be
attributed to those more than 10,000 other protests.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by ajohnstone
The CSIS data is specifically for January 1 and August 31, 2020 which excludes your two more recent examples.
It can be read here
https://www.csis.org/analysis/war-comes-home-evolution-domestic-terrorism-united-states
And who are we to believe?
In October 2020, that crypto liberal left-wing organization, the U.S.
Department of Homeland Security concluded that ???racially and
ethnically motivated violent extremists???specifically white
supremacist extremists (WSEs)???will remain the most persistent and
lethal threat in the Homeland.???
That reflects the finding of that pseudo-commie British MI5 that

Do you even know what PSEUDO means? No. YOU are PSEUDO.

Post by ajohnstone
"Fast-growing right-wing terrorism remains the biggest threat"
The UN Security Council's Counterterrorism Committee says there's been a
320 per cent increase in right-wing terrorism globally in the five years
prior to 2020.

Well, duh! Ever since Trump got elected.

Post by ajohnstone
Then there is the think-tank The Munich Security Repor "Although most

I don't think they have much sapport.

Post by ajohnstone
right-wing extremists conduct their attacks alone, they are increasingly
embedded in transnational networks. These networks rely on a strong sense
of common identity, based on the belief in white supremacy and the
perceived need to protect it... these attacks do not describe
???one-off events, but a loosely coordinated chain of far-right
attacks across the world..."

Post by Bud
What about the two cops shot in Los Angeles?

So you equate every criminal act against the police as politically

Silly, this was not an everyday occurance. It was a targetted political
attack. Racial revenge.

Post by ajohnstone
motivated terrorism. Can you refer me to any police statement that
suggested Murray had a link with any politics. I couldn't find any
reporting of such from a quick google-search.

Not needed. You don't have to have an official affiliation to share the
same politics.

Post by ajohnstone
Having been lectured upon hyperbole that it is not lying the "perhaps
thousands of political attacks by the left..." is an exaggeration of
reality. Data compiled by the Armed Conflict Location and Event Data
Project (ACLED) found that out of 10,600 demonstrations between May and
August, 570 involved violence - so more than 10,000 were peaceful
demonstrations.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone
Is the the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) reliable,
Bud?

If what you are producing below is any indication, no.

Post by ajohnstone
White supremacists and other rightwing extremists have been responsible
for 67% of domestic terror attacks and plots so far this year,

You`re joking, right? Every riot that went on in this country for months
was a domestic terror attack.
Tim Pool has an excellent video on how the left tracks incidents here...
http://youtu.be/bJiuGax6s_c
The ADL had *zero* incidents of left wing extremists incidents at the
height of the riots.

Post by ajohnstone
with at
least half of that violence targeting protesters.

Are they even showing up at these events? The only time I saw any
presence that could be considered "rightwing" was that kid in Kenosha, and
he was attacked.
Every time ant right leaning group tries to have an event the left shows
up and attacks them.

Post by ajohnstone
Rightwingers were responsible for 41 politically motivated attacks and
plots this year, while the ???far-left??? was responsible for
12.

Watch this video, you`ll see hundred, perhaps thousands of political
attacks by the left...
http://youtu.be/fqqGGqLlrw4
And I don`t suppose this 71 year old Kenosha man counts as an attack...
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/aug/27/robert-cobb-71-year-old-kenosha-man-attacked-by-ri/
Now, if there was a right wing event, and someone was attacked, it would
be a right wing attack. I can guarantee you that this doesn`t count as a
left wing attack *anywhere*. None of the attacks in any of the riots
count. The left just plays crooked games with information.

Post by ajohnstone
The percentage of rightwing domestic terrorism attacks would have been
higher if CSIS had categorized ???boogaloo??? anti-government
extremists as rightwing, as many experts do. Instead, they classified the
emerging violent movement as ???other???.
Only a single deadly ???far-left??? attack in 2020, the
shooting of Aaron Danielson, a rightwing activist, by a self-described
???anti-fascist??? during a protest in Portland this August.
The first killing linked to an anti-fascist in the United States in 25
years.

You are just playing silly games with numbers. What about that retired
Saint Louise police captain who was skilled by rioters in St Louis? What
about the murders in that section of Seattle the leftists took over?

Post by ajohnstone
Four people died from rightwing domestic terror incidents this year
through 31 August. The analysts did not see a clear ???political
motivation??? by the alleged 17-year-old shooter, Kyle Rittenhouse,
or evidence that the killings had been premeditate
The 11 non-fatal incidents analysts coded as ???far-left political
violence??? include the burning of a police precinct in Minneapolis
that was known locally as ???a playground for renegade
cops???; attempts to set police cars on fire in New York City and
Tacoma, Washington; molotov cocktail and other incendiary attacks on
government buildings in Portland, Seattle, and Apple Valley, Minnesota;
and an assault on a Democratic state senator who was filming protesters
tearing down statues in Wisconsin.

What about the two cops shot in Los Angeles?
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/12/us/los-angeles-county-officers-shot-compton/index.html

Post by ajohnstone
The non-fatal rightwing attacks include a knife attack that wounded three
members of an Asian-American family in Texas; a shooting at a shopping
center in Arizona by a man prosecutors said was part of the misogynistic
???incel??? movement; multiple terror plots by The Base, a
neo-Nazi group trying to instigate a race war; and several threats and
violent incidents linked to the QAnon conspiracy theory.

Let me do the counting. Let me decide what is a right wing attack and
what is not. The incel movement isn`t right wing, and what the hell is a
QAnon "threat"? Isn`t "No Justice, No Peace" a threat? Doesn`t BLM say
this all the time?

No. Please list all the people that BLM has killed.

[John Corbett]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone
Is the the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) reliable,
Bud?

If what you are producing below is any indication, no.

Post by ajohnstone
White supremacists and other rightwing extremists have been responsible
for 67% of domestic terror attacks and plots so far this year,

You`re joking, right? Every riot that went on in this country for months
was a domestic terror attack.
Tim Pool has an excellent video on how the left tracks incidents here...
http://youtu.be/bJiuGax6s_c
The ADL had *zero* incidents of left wing extremists incidents at the
height of the riots.

Post by ajohnstone
with at
least half of that violence targeting protesters.

Are they even showing up at these events? The only time I saw any
presence that could be considered "rightwing" was that kid in Kenosha, and
he was attacked.
Every time ant right leaning group tries to have an event the left shows
up and attacks them.

Post by ajohnstone
Rightwingers were responsible for 41 politically motivated attacks and
plots this year, while the ???far-left??? was responsible for
12.

Watch this video, you`ll see hundred, perhaps thousands of political
attacks by the left...
http://youtu.be/fqqGGqLlrw4
And I don`t suppose this 71 year old Kenosha man counts as an attack...
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/aug/27/robert-cobb-71-year-old-kenosha-man-attacked-by-ri/
Now, if there was a right wing event, and someone was attacked, it would
be a right wing attack. I can guarantee you that this doesn`t count as a
left wing attack *anywhere*. None of the attacks in any of the riots
count. The left just plays crooked games with information.

Post by ajohnstone
The percentage of rightwing domestic terrorism attacks would have been
higher if CSIS had categorized ???boogaloo??? anti-government
extremists as rightwing, as many experts do. Instead, they classified the
emerging violent movement as ???other???.
Only a single deadly ???far-left??? attack in 2020, the
shooting of Aaron Danielson, a rightwing activist, by a self-described
???anti-fascist??? during a protest in Portland this August.
The first killing linked to an anti-fascist in the United States in 25
years.

You are just playing silly games with numbers. What about that retired
Saint Louise police captain who was skilled by rioters in St Louis? What
about the murders in that section of Seattle the leftists took over?

Post by ajohnstone
Four people died from rightwing domestic terror incidents this year
through 31 August. The analysts did not see a clear ???political
motivation??? by the alleged 17-year-old shooter, Kyle Rittenhouse,
or evidence that the killings had been premeditate
The 11 non-fatal incidents analysts coded as ???far-left political
violence??? include the burning of a police precinct in Minneapolis
that was known locally as ???a playground for renegade
cops???; attempts to set police cars on fire in New York City and
Tacoma, Washington; molotov cocktail and other incendiary attacks on
government buildings in Portland, Seattle, and Apple Valley, Minnesota;
and an assault on a Democratic state senator who was filming protesters
tearing down statues in Wisconsin.

What about the two cops shot in Los Angeles?
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/12/us/los-angeles-county-officers-shot-compton/index.html

Post by ajohnstone
The non-fatal rightwing attacks include a knife attack that wounded three
members of an Asian-American family in Texas; a shooting at a shopping
center in Arizona by a man prosecutors said was part of the misogynistic
???incel??? movement; multiple terror plots by The Base, a
neo-Nazi group trying to instigate a race war; and several threats and
violent incidents linked to the QAnon conspiracy theory.

Let me do the counting. Let me decide what is a right wing attack and
what is not. The incel movement isn`t right wing, and what the hell is a
QAnon "threat"? Isn`t "No Justice, No Peace" a threat? Doesn`t BLM say
this all the time?

No. Please list all the people that BLM has killed.

David Dorn for starters.

[ajohnstone]

Post by John Corbett

Post by Anthony Marsh
No. Please list all the people that BLM has killed.

David Dorn for starters.

It is very difficult to differentiate between protesters in a riot and
those criminal elements who take advantage of the disorder and chaos.

Is there any evidence that Stephan Cannon, Dorn's killer was involved with
BLM or was in any way political? It would appear that he was a criminal,
having previous record for theft and assault and not connected with the
protesters.

You can rightly ascribe blame the conditions of mayhem that permitted
felons to loot stores, but it is questionable if you can directly blame
the murder of David Dorn to BLM.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by John Corbett

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone
Is the the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) reliable,
Bud?

If what you are producing below is any indication, no.

Post by ajohnstone
White supremacists and other rightwing extremists have been responsible
for 67% of domestic terror attacks and plots so far this year,

You`re joking, right? Every riot that went on in this country for months
was a domestic terror attack.
Tim Pool has an excellent video on how the left tracks incidents here...
http://youtu.be/bJiuGax6s_c
The ADL had *zero* incidents of left wing extremists incidents at the
height of the riots.

Post by ajohnstone
with at
least half of that violence targeting protesters.

Are they even showing up at these events? The only time I saw any
presence that could be considered "rightwing" was that kid in Kenosha, and
he was attacked.
Every time ant right leaning group tries to have an event the left shows
up and attacks them.

Post by ajohnstone
Rightwingers were responsible for 41 politically motivated attacks and
plots this year, while the ???far-left??? was responsible for
12.

Watch this video, you`ll see hundred, perhaps thousands of political
attacks by the left...
http://youtu.be/fqqGGqLlrw4
And I don`t suppose this 71 year old Kenosha man counts as an attack...
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/aug/27/robert-cobb-71-year-old-kenosha-man-attacked-by-ri/
Now, if there was a right wing event, and someone was attacked, it would
be a right wing attack. I can guarantee you that this doesn`t count as a
left wing attack *anywhere*. None of the attacks in any of the riots
count. The left just plays crooked games with information.

Post by ajohnstone
The percentage of rightwing domestic terrorism attacks would have been
higher if CSIS had categorized ???boogaloo??? anti-government
extremists as rightwing, as many experts do. Instead, they classified the
emerging violent movement as ???other???.
Only a single deadly ???far-left??? attack in 2020, the
shooting of Aaron Danielson, a rightwing activist, by a self-described
???anti-fascist??? during a protest in Portland this August.
The first killing linked to an anti-fascist in the United States in 25
years.

You are just playing silly games with numbers. What about that retired
Saint Louise police captain who was skilled by rioters in St Louis? What
about the murders in that section of Seattle the leftists took over?

Post by ajohnstone
Four people died from rightwing domestic terror incidents this year
through 31 August. The analysts did not see a clear ???political
motivation??? by the alleged 17-year-old shooter, Kyle Rittenhouse,
or evidence that the killings had been premeditate
The 11 non-fatal incidents analysts coded as ???far-left political
violence??? include the burning of a police precinct in Minneapolis
that was known locally as ???a playground for renegade
cops???; attempts to set police cars on fire in New York City and
Tacoma, Washington; molotov cocktail and other incendiary attacks on
government buildings in Portland, Seattle, and Apple Valley, Minnesota;
and an assault on a Democratic state senator who was filming protesters
tearing down statues in Wisconsin.

What about the two cops shot in Los Angeles?
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/12/us/los-angeles-county-officers-shot-compton/index.html

Post by ajohnstone
The non-fatal rightwing attacks include a knife attack that wounded three
members of an Asian-American family in Texas; a shooting at a shopping
center in Arizona by a man prosecutors said was part of the misogynistic
???incel??? movement; multiple terror plots by The Base, a
neo-Nazi group trying to instigate a race war; and several threats and
violent incidents linked to the QAnon conspiracy theory.

Let me do the counting. Let me decide what is a right wing attack and
what is not. The incel movement isn`t right wing, and what the hell is a
QAnon "threat"? Isn`t "No Justice, No Peace" a threat? Doesn`t BLM say
this all the time?

No. Please list all the people that BLM has killed.

David Dorn for starters.

You keep ducking my questions.
That poves that you don't know what the Hell you are talking about.
You heard something somewhere.

[ajohnstone]

Post by Bud
How many polling places?

Texas led the US south in an unenviable statistic: closing down the most
polling stations, making it more difficult for people to vote... 750 polls
had been closed statewide since 2012. Texas is among the biggest poll
closers in the country, ahead of Arizona, Georgia, Louisiana and
Mississippi.

In 2012, there was one polling place for every 4,000 residents. By 2018
that figure had dropped to one polling place per 7,700 residents. A 2019
paper by University of Houston political scientists found that after the
county’s transition to vote centers, more voting locations were
closed in Latinx neighborhoods than in non-Latinx neighborhoods, and that
Latinx people had to travel farther to vote than non-Hispanic whites.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/02/texas-polling-sites-closures-voting

"The upshot is that for many Texas voters, the ballot box is ever further
away."

"...the greater hidden problem is that there are so many people in this
country illegally to begin with."

And there it is...you aren't concerned about voting fraud at all.

[Bud]

Post by ajohnstone

Post by Bud
How many polling places?

Texas led the US south in an unenviable statistic: closing down the most
polling stations, making it more difficult for people to vote... 750 polls
had been closed statewide since 2012. Texas is among the biggest poll
closers in the country, ahead of Arizona, Georgia, Louisiana and
Mississippi.
In 2012, there was one polling place for every 4,000 residents. By 2018
that figure had dropped to one polling place per 7,700 residents. A 2019
paper by University of Houston political scientists found that after the
county’s transition to vote centers, more voting locations were
closed in Latinx neighborhoods than in non-Latinx neighborhoods, and that
Latinx people had to travel farther to vote than non-Hispanic whites.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/02/texas-polling-sites-closures-voting
"The upshot is that for many Texas voters, the ballot box is ever further
away."
"...the greater hidden problem is that there are so many people in this
country illegally to begin with."
And there it is...you aren't concerned about voting fraud at all.

How does that follow?

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone

Post by Bud
How many polling places?

Texas led the US south in an unenviable statistic: closing down the most
polling stations, making it more difficult for people to vote... 750 polls
had been closed statewide since 2012. Texas is among the biggest poll
closers in the country, ahead of Arizona, Georgia, Louisiana and
Mississippi.
In 2012, there was one polling place for every 4,000 residents. By 2018
that figure had dropped to one polling place per 7,700 residents. A 2019
paper by University of Houston political scientists found that after the
county???s transition to vote centers, more voting locations were
closed in Latinx neighborhoods than in non-Latinx neighborhoods, and that
Latinx people had to travel farther to vote than non-Hispanic whites.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/02/texas-polling-sites-closures-voting
"The upshot is that for many Texas voters, the ballot box is ever further
away."
"...the greater hidden problem is that there are so many people in this
country illegally to begin with."
And there it is...you aren't concerned about voting fraud at all.

Are you also worried about the aliens attacking?

Post by Bud
How does that follow?

[ajohnstone]

A black flag op?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/23/texas-boogaloo-boi-minneapolis-police-building-george-floyd

Ivan Harrison Hunter, a 26-year-old Texas resident, rightwing Boogaloo
Boi extremist boasted of driving from Texas to Minneapolis to help set
fire to a police precinct during the George Floyd protests. Hunter fired
13 rounds from a semiautomatic assault-style rifle on the 3rd precinct
police station while people believed to be looters were inside. He then
high-fived another person and shouted, “Justice for
Floyd!”

Hunter privately messaged Steven Carrillo, another “Boogaloo
Boi” in California, urging him to “go for police
buildings”, according to the federal criminal complaint.

“I did better, lol,” Carrillo replied. Carrillo had driven
to Oakland with an accomplice, and, as protesters were demonstrating
blocks away, shot two officers guarding a federal courthouse in downtown
Oakland, killing one, David Patrick Underwood.

The charges are the latest example of far-right extremists attempting to
use violence to escalate national protests against police brutality into
an uprising against the government, and even full civil war.

Hunter is the third “Boogaloo Boi” to be charged in
connection with protests in Minneapolis. Michael Robert Solomon, 30, and
Benjamin Ryan Teeter, 22, had actively developed plans to carry out
violence in Minnesota and elsewhere, and thinking that they shared the
same desire to harm the United States, they sought to join forces and
provide support, including in the form of weapons accessories, to
Hamas.

[John Corbett]

Post by ajohnstone
Oh, i forgot Bud's golden rule. "I accept only the evidence that will
agree with me, and the evidence that does not concur with my beliefs is
unreliable."
Look at your figures...handfuls that are insignificant when it comes to
election outcomes. Many are technical offenses where intent was not
malicious.
And no, they are not a sign of a greater hidden problem.
In fact there more people disallowed from voting when they are fully
entitled to cast a ballot. It is voter suppression that is the real issue.
4.7 million residents of Harris County have one mail-in drop-box. Loving
County population 169 also has one. Sensible?
If only the same effort was put to urge the use of the vote and make the
process easier to involve people to participate in a electoral process.
After all, that is what real democracies do...encourage people to vote and
use procedures that assist in that aim. And strange, more fraud has not
been a major result.

It has become ridiculously easy to vote in this country. You can go to the
polls on Election Day. You can vote early at your local board of election
centers (I already have. Took five minutes). You can vote by mail. Anybody
w= ho doesn't get their vote cast has no one to blame but themselves. As
for fraud, we only know about the folks who get caught. Widespread ballot
harvesting is now a distinct possibility. Pennsylvania is not even going
to require matching signatures for votes received by mail unless their
Supreme Court says they must. Without signature matching. Anyone could
steal a ballot from somebody's mailbox and cast a vote for them. People
who might otherwise not bother voting could sell their ballot. Dead people
will be casting votes by mail. There is massive potential for voter fraud.
Do you really think the Democrats are pushing for mail in voting out of
civic duty?

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone

Post by Bud
I`d feel safer if they were at my polling place.

You would because you are white and native-born intending to vote for
Trump and therefore will not be accosted and have your right to cast your
ballot challenged by someone who is not an accredited election official
but a complete stranger perhaps brandishing a weapon.

You mean like happened here in Philly...
http://youtu.be/neGbKHyGuHU
Now show an instance of your imaginary scenario. People on the right
these days aren`t going try to intimidate people into not voting, it could
never happen, one phone call and all the federal, state and local
authorities will be mobilized. We`d be happy if they were only allowed to
vote once.

Post by ajohnstone
I have been an election official and i have monitored the vote results -
there are many more non-threatening ways to go about it than being
proposed.

You can't come out in favor of free speech without losing teerh to antifa
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2020/10/18/conservatives-staging-free-speech-rally-attacked-by-critics/24654917/

I hsve no ideas what your paranoid ramblings mean.
I am always in favor of free speech, even when it means we have to
listen to things like you. I am not afraid of Antifa. Maybe you are.
I don't have any teeth left to lose. but I do hve a county
snd worry that we will lose it it to the Nazis.

[ajohnstone]

"Now show an instance of your imaginary scenario."

Come on Bud. You give an example from 10yrs ago but go a bit further back
and recall burning crosses and bombings and killings to intimidate voters.
And indeed the federal authorities did have to intervene because your
state and local law enforcement were complicit in the violence to suppress
the African American vote. You may have a short memory problem but others
don't.

Will the militias serve as KKK proxies in 2020?

We shall just have to wait and see but i know you'll disagree but i think
the threat posed comes from the Right-wing and not Antifa or BLM.

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-10-10/what-happens-if-armed-right-wing-groups-polls

“Local officials, law enforcement, and voters need to know that
groups of armed individuals have no legal authority under federal or state
law to show up at voting locations claiming to protect or patrol the
polls,” said Mary McCord, Legal Director of ICAP and a former
Acting Assistant Attorney General for National Security at the Department
of Justice. “Given the increasing self-deployment of private
unlawful militias during protests against racial injustice across the
country, intimidating peaceful protesters and heightening the risk of
violence—sometimes with tragic results—communities must
prepare for similar unlawful private militia activity and intimidation in
connection with the election.�= ��

https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/our-press-releases/fact-sheets-on-unlawful-militias-for-all-50-states-now-available-from-georgetown-laws-institute-for-constitutional-advocacy-and-protection/

[John Corbett]

Post by ajohnstone
"Now show an instance of your imaginary scenario."
Come on Bud. You give an example from 10yrs ago but go a bit further back
and recall burning crosses and bombings and killings to intimidate voters.
And indeed the federal authorities did have to intervene because your
state and local law enforcement were complicit in the violence to suppress
the African American vote. You may have a short memory problem but others
don't.

And those were the Democrats.

Post by ajohnstone
Will the militias serve as KKK proxies in 2020?
We shall just have to wait and see but i know you'll disagree but i think
the threat posed comes from the Right-wing and not Antifa or BLM.

Both are threats and if the police fail to crack down on lawlessness from
both sides, those groups will clash. Violently.

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-10-10/what-happens-if-armed-right-wing-groups-polls
“Local officials, law enforcement, and voters need to know that
groups of armed individuals have no legal authority under federal or state
law to show up at voting locations claiming to protect or patrol the
polls,” said Mary McCord, Legal Director of ICAP and a former
Acting Assistant Attorney General for National Security at the Department
of Justice.

Does that apply to the Black Panthers? Just asking.

Post by ajohnstone
“Given the increasing self-deployment of private
unlawful militias during protests against racial injustice across the
country, intimidating peaceful protesters

Peaceful protesters? Are you serious? Looting. Burning. Taking over police
stations and the cops being ordered to stand down. What the hell do you
think is going to happen. When the police aren't allowed to enforce the
law, vigilantes are going to step in to fill the void. Those militia
groups would not have formed had the cops been allowed to do their jobs.

Post by ajohnstone
and heightening the risk of
violence—sometimes with tragic results—communities must
prepare for similar unlawful private militia activity and intimidation in
connection with the election.â �
https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/our-press-releases/fact-sheets-on-unlawful-militias-for-all-50-states-now-available-from-georgetown-laws-institute-for-constitutional-advocacy-and-protection/

Hyperbole.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by John Corbett

Post by ajohnstone
"Now show an instance of your imaginary scenario."
Come on Bud. You give an example from 10yrs ago but go a bit further back
and recall burning crosses and bombings and killings to intimidate voters.
And indeed the federal authorities did have to intervene because your
state and local law enforcement were complicit in the violence to suppress
the African American vote. You may have a short memory problem but others
don't.

And those were the Democrats.

Post by ajohnstone
Will the militias serve as KKK proxies in 2020?
We shall just have to wait and see but i know you'll disagree but i think
the threat posed comes from the Right-wing and not Antifa or BLM.

Both are threats and if the police fail to crack down on lawlessness from
both sides, those groups will clash. Violently.

I don't see the pokice cracking down on the Proud Boys sending e-mails
threatening people if they don't change to Republican and vote for Trump.
That is a Federal crime, not state crime, so it's something for the Feds
to prosecute. But they won't prosecute Trump supporters.

Post by John Corbett

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-10-10/what-happens-if-armed-right-wing-groups-polls
???Local officials, law enforcement, and voters need to know that
groups of armed individuals have no legal authority under federal or state
law to show up at voting locations claiming to protect or patrol the
polls,??? said Mary McCord, Legal Director of ICAP and a former
Acting Assistant Attorney General for National Security at the Department
of Justice.

Does that apply to the Black Panthers? Just asking.

The Black Panthers do not still exist. Do you even know what Century you
are in? Holy false euivalency.

Post by John Corbett

Post by ajohnstone
???Given the increasing self-deployment of private
unlawful militias during protests against racial injustice across the
country, intimidating peaceful protesters

Peaceful protesters? Are you serious? Looting. Burning. Taking over police
stations and the cops being ordered to stand down. What the hell do you
think is going to happen. When the police aren't allowed to enforce the

OMG, it sounds so scary. Please stay in your room.

Post by John Corbett
law, vigilantes are going to step in to fill the void. Those militia
groups would not have formed had the cops been allowed to do their jobs.

Silly. They advocate what the police are not allowed to do by law.

Post by John Corbett

Post by ajohnstone
and heightening the risk of
violence???sometimes with tragic results???communities must
prepare for similar unlawful private militia activity and intimidation in
connection with the election.?? ???
https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/our-press-releases/fact-sheets-on-unlawful-militias-for-all-50-states-now-available-from-georgetown-laws-institute-for-constitutional-advocacy-and-protection/

Hyperbole.

[John Corbett]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by John Corbett

Post by ajohnstone
"Now show an instance of your imaginary scenario."
Come on Bud. You give an example from 10yrs ago but go a bit further back
and recall burning crosses and bombings and killings to intimidate voters.
And indeed the federal authorities did have to intervene because your
state and local law enforcement were complicit in the violence to suppress
the African American vote. You may have a short memory problem but others
don't.

And those were the Democrats.

Post by ajohnstone
Will the militias serve as KKK proxies in 2020?
We shall just have to wait and see but i know you'll disagree but i think
the threat posed comes from the Right-wing and not Antifa or BLM.

Both are threats and if the police fail to crack down on lawlessness from
both sides, those groups will clash. Violently.

I don't see the pokice cracking down on the Proud Boys sending e-mails
threatening people if they don't change to Republican and vote for Trump.
That is a Federal crime, not state crime, so it's something for the Feds
to prosecute. But they won't prosecute Trump supporters.

Post by John Corbett

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-10-10/what-happens-if-armed-right-wing-groups-polls
???Local officials, law enforcement, and voters need to know that
groups of armed individuals have no legal authority under federal or state
law to show up at voting locations claiming to protect or patrol the
polls,??? said Mary McCord, Legal Director of ICAP and a former
Acting Assistant Attorney General for National Security at the Department
of Justice.

Does that apply to the Black Panthers? Just asking.

The Black Panthers do not still exist. Do you even know what Century you
are in? Holy false euivalency.

Is that so?

https://www.history.com/topics/civil-rights-movement/black-panthers
New Black Panther Party

The New Black Panther Party is a black nationalist organization founded in
Dallas, Texas, in 1989. Members of the original Black Panther Party say
there’s no relation between the New Black Panther Party and the
original Black Panthers.

The United States Commission on Civil Rights and the Southern Poverty Law
Center have called the New Black Panther Party a hate group.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by John Corbett

Post by ajohnstone
???Given the increasing self-deployment of private
unlawful militias during protests against racial injustice across the
country, intimidating peaceful protesters

Peaceful protesters? Are you serious? Looting. Burning. Taking over police
stations and the cops being ordered to stand down. What the hell do you
think is going to happen. When the police aren't allowed to enforce the

OMG, it sounds so scary. Please stay in your room.

As opposed to pretending these things aren't happening.

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by John Corbett
law, vigilantes are going to step in to fill the void. Those militia
groups would not have formed had the cops been allowed to do their jobs.

Silly. They advocate what the police are not allowed to do by law.

They are trying to protect the property in cities where the rioters have
been allowed to run amok. They are doing the job the police aren't being
allowed to do for political reasons.

[Bud]

Post by ajohnstone
"Now show an instance of your imaginary scenario."
Come on Bud. You give an example from 10yrs ago but go a bit further back
and recall burning crosses and bombings and killings to intimidate voters.

Which shows we`ve come a long way. It isn`t right wing extremists who try
to intimidate voters, now a days it is left wing extremists. You just can`t
show that these days the right turns up at polling places to intimidate people who are voting.

Post by ajohnstone
And indeed the federal authorities did have to intervene because your
state and local law enforcement were complicit in the violence to suppress
the African American vote. You may have a short memory problem but others
don't.

When problems are fixed you move on.

Post by ajohnstone
Will the militias serve as KKK proxies in 2020?

This is the same nonsense you were worried about some pro-gun folks
opening up websites, or Qanon. You may have missed all the death and
destruction caused by the recent leftist uprisings.

Post by ajohnstone
We shall just have to wait and see but i know you'll disagree but i think
the threat posed comes from the Right-wing and not Antifa or BLM.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-10-10/what-happens-if-armed-right-wing-groups-polls
“Local officials, law enforcement, and voters need to know that
groups of armed individuals have no legal authority under federal or state
law to show up at voting locations claiming to protect or patrol the
polls,” said Mary McCord, Legal Director of ICAP and a former
Acting Assistant Attorney General for National Security at the Department
of Justice. “Given the increasing self-deployment of private
unlawful militias

What makes them unlawful?

Post by ajohnstone
during protests against racial injustice across the
country, intimidating peaceful protesters

Now I know that Mary McCord is a liar engaging in spin. Many of these
events were riots, and in many of these events the left seems to have
brought all kinds of weapons, and at many of these event innocent people
were attacked. So who were the intimidators and who were the
intimidated?

Post by ajohnstone
and heightening the risk of
violence—

It seems there is all sorts of violence (that seems to be escaping Mary
McCort`s attention) with many of these events whether there is a right
wing militia present or not. Is she saying it was Kyle Rittenhouse`s
presence that made the protesters try to burn down a gas station in
Kenosha? And why did all those "peaceful protestors" who chased him happen
to have guns and pipes and molotov cocktails?

Post by ajohnstone
sometimes with tragic results—

Like that leftist hired by a news station that ended up killing a Trump
supporter?

https://www.9news.com/article/news/crime/unlicensed-security-guard-dolloff-charges/73-bb38a6db-d929-46d3-8177-6a376c174ea8

The leftist media is allowed to have their own armed militia to protect
them, but people can`t arm themselves to protect their communities.

Post by ajohnstone
communities must
prepare for similar unlawful private militia activity and intimidation in
connection with the election.â �

But we shouldn`t be concerned at all about large groups of leftists
burning, looting and attacking people.

"Isn`t "No Justice, No Peace" just a threat. Aren`t leftists already
threatening violence if Trump gets elected? So instead they focus
attention at a boogeyman they can`t show is any real threat at all.

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/our-press-releases/fact-sheets-on-unlawful-militias-for-all-50-states-now-available-from-georgetown-laws-institute-for-constitutional-advocacy-and-protection/

[John Corbett]

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone
"Now show an instance of your imaginary scenario."
Come on Bud. You give an example from 10yrs ago but go a bit further back
and recall burning crosses and bombings and killings to intimidate voters.

Which shows we`ve come a long way. It isn`t right wing extremists who try
to intimidate voters, now a days it is left wing extremists. You just can`t
show that these days the right turns up at polling places to intimidate people who are voting.

Post by ajohnstone
And indeed the federal authorities did have to intervene because your
state and local law enforcement were complicit in the violence to suppress
the African American vote. You may have a short memory problem but others
don't.

When problems are fixed you move on.

Post by ajohnstone
Will the militias serve as KKK proxies in 2020?

This is the same nonsense you were worried about some pro-gun folks
opening up websites, or Qanon. You may have missed all the death and
destruction caused by the recent leftist uprisings.

Post by ajohnstone
We shall just have to wait and see but i know you'll disagree but i think
the threat posed comes from the Right-wing and not Antifa or BLM.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-10-10/what-happens-if-armed-right-wing-groups-polls
“Local officials, law enforcement, and voters need to know that
groups of armed individuals have no legal authority under federal or state
law to show up at voting locations claiming to protect or patrol the
polls,” said Mary McCord, Legal Director of ICAP and a former
Acting Assistant Attorney General for National Security at the Department
of Justice. “Given the increasing self-deployment of private
unlawful militias

What makes them unlawful?

Post by ajohnstone
during protests against racial injustice across the
country, intimidating peaceful protesters

Now I know that Mary McCord is a liar engaging in spin. Many of these
events were riots, and in many of these events the left seems to have
brought all kinds of weapons, and at many of these event innocent people
were attacked. So who were the intimidators and who were the
intimidated?

Post by ajohnstone
and heightening the risk of
violence—

It seems there is all sorts of violence (that seems to be escaping Mary
McCort`s attention) with many of these events whether there is a right
wing militia present or not. Is she saying it was Kyle Rittenhouse`s
presence that made the protesters try to burn down a gas station in
Kenosha? And why did all those "peaceful protestors" who chased him happen
to have guns and pipes and molotov cocktails?

Post by ajohnstone
sometimes with tragic results—

Like that leftist hired by a news station that ended up killing a Trump
supporter?
https://www.9news.com/article/news/crime/unlicensed-security-guard-dolloff-charges/73-bb38a6db-d929-46d3-8177-6a376c174ea8
The leftist media is allowed to have their own armed militia to protect
them, but people can`t arm themselves to protect their communities.

Post by ajohnstone
communities must
prepare for similar unlawful private militia activity and intimidation in
connection with the election.â �

But we shouldn`t be concerned at all about large groups of leftists
burning, looting and attacking people.
"Isn`t "No Justice, No Peace" just a threat. Aren`t leftists already
threatening violence if Trump gets elected? So instead they focus
attention at a boogeyman they can`t show is any real threat at all.

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/our-press-releases/fact-sheets-on-unlawful-militias-for-all-50-states-now-available-from-georgetown-laws-institute-for-constitutional-advocacy-and-protection/

Then we have this story which has gone viral about some ditz who claims
she was boxed in on the freeway by a Trump truck rally:

https://www.insider.com/francia-raisa-trump-supporters-rally-blocked-car-video-2020-10

She says they were laughing at her because she is Mexican? Really? How did
they know she was Mexican? Was she flying a Mexican flag? Was she wearing
a sombrero? She got boxed in on the 405. Welcome to everyday traffic in
southern California.

Of course the media is all over this story. They ignored all those
incidents of people getting trapped in their cars during "mostly peaceful
protests" in which they were threatened and had their windows smashed in
but because this one woman goes into hysterics because she got boxed in on
the freeway, that's news.

Oh, did we forget to mention she is an organ donor?

[Bud]

Post by John Corbett

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone
"Now show an instance of your imaginary scenario."
Come on Bud. You give an example from 10yrs ago but go a bit further back
and recall burning crosses and bombings and killings to intimidate voters.

Which shows we`ve come a long way. It isn`t right wing extremists who try
to intimidate voters, now a days it is left wing extremists. You just can`t
show that these days the right turns up at polling places to intimidate people who are voting.

Post by ajohnstone
And indeed the federal authorities did have to intervene because your
state and local law enforcement were complicit in the violence to suppress
the African American vote. You may have a short memory problem but others
don't.

When problems are fixed you move on.

Post by ajohnstone
Will the militias serve as KKK proxies in 2020?

This is the same nonsense you were worried about some pro-gun folks
opening up websites, or Qanon. You may have missed all the death and
destruction caused by the recent leftist uprisings.

Post by ajohnstone
We shall just have to wait and see but i know you'll disagree but i think
the threat posed comes from the Right-wing and not Antifa or BLM.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-10-10/what-happens-if-armed-right-wing-groups-polls
“Local officials, law enforcement, and voters need to know that
groups of armed individuals have no legal authority under federal or state
law to show up at voting locations claiming to protect or patrol the
polls,” said Mary McCord, Legal Director of ICAP and a former
Acting Assistant Attorney General for National Security at the Department
of Justice. “Given the increasing self-deployment of private
unlawful militias

What makes them unlawful?

Post by ajohnstone
during protests against racial injustice across the
country, intimidating peaceful protesters

Now I know that Mary McCord is a liar engaging in spin. Many of these
events were riots, and in many of these events the left seems to have
brought all kinds of weapons, and at many of these event innocent people
were attacked. So who were the intimidators and who were the
intimidated?

Post by ajohnstone
and heightening the risk of
violence—

It seems there is all sorts of violence (that seems to be escaping Mary
McCort`s attention) with many of these events whether there is a right
wing militia present or not. Is she saying it was Kyle Rittenhouse`s
presence that made the protesters try to burn down a gas station in
Kenosha? And why did all those "peaceful protestors" who chased him happen
to have guns and pipes and molotov cocktails?

Post by ajohnstone
sometimes with tragic results—

Like that leftist hired by a news station that ended up killing a Trump
supporter?
https://www.9news.com/article/news/crime/unlicensed-security-guard-dolloff-charges/73-bb38a6db-d929-46d3-8177-6a376c174ea8
The leftist media is allowed to have their own armed militia to protect
them, but people can`t arm themselves to protect their communities.

Post by ajohnstone
communities must
prepare for similar unlawful private militia activity and intimidation in
connection with the election.â �

But we shouldn`t be concerned at all about large groups of leftists
burning, looting and attacking people.
"Isn`t "No Justice, No Peace" just a threat. Aren`t leftists already
threatening violence if Trump gets elected? So instead they focus
attention at a boogeyman they can`t show is any real threat at all.

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/our-press-releases/fact-sheets-on-unlawful-militias-for-all-50-states-now-available-from-georgetown-laws-institute-for-constitutional-advocacy-and-protection/

Then we have this story which has gone viral about some ditz who claims
https://www.insider.com/francia-raisa-trump-supporters-rally-blocked-car-video-2020-10
She says they were laughing at her because she is Mexican? Really? How did
they know she was Mexican? Was she flying a Mexican flag? Was she wearing
a sombrero? She got boxed in on the 405. Welcome to everyday traffic in
southern California.
Of course the media is all over this story. They ignored all those
incidents of people getting trapped in their cars during "mostly peaceful
protests" in which they were threatened and had their windows smashed in
but because this one woman goes into hysterics because she got boxed in on
the freeway, that's news.
Oh, did we forget to mention she is an organ donor?

This nonsense happens all the time with the media, they have to
perpetuate the myth that Trump is breeding a culture of hate (which
incidentally needs to be countered by a culture of hate). Even Obama is
peddling this lie...

"Why would we accept this from the president of the United States, and
why are folks making excuses for that?" Obama said. "There are
consequences to these actions. They embolden other people to be cruel and
divisive and racist."

I remember Ferguson burning while Obama was President.

This one happened here in Philly last month, a transgender person was
in her home when a ruckus occurred outside of it. She went out and told
them to take it elsewhere, when she was predictably attacked. Now if this
happens to you or I, this is not news, but when it happens to a trans
person hate crime units and the media are mobilized.

https://6abc.com/arrest-made-after-transgender-philly-woman-beaten-inside-her-home/6565744/

I can put on a dress and walk anywhere in Philadelphia safely, but I
can`t put on a Trump hat and do it.

[John Corbett]

Post by Bud

Post by John Corbett

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone
"Now show an instance of your imaginary scenario."
Come on Bud. You give an example from 10yrs ago but go a bit further back
and recall burning crosses and bombings and killings to intimidate voters.

Which shows we`ve come a long way. It isn`t right wing extremists who try
to intimidate voters, now a days it is left wing extremists. You just can`t
show that these days the right turns up at polling places to intimidate people who are voting.

Post by ajohnstone
And indeed the federal authorities did have to intervene because your
state and local law enforcement were complicit in the violence to suppress
the African American vote. You may have a short memory problem but others
don't.

When problems are fixed you move on.

Post by ajohnstone
Will the militias serve as KKK proxies in 2020?

This is the same nonsense you were worried about some pro-gun folks
opening up websites, or Qanon. You may have missed all the death and
destruction caused by the recent leftist uprisings.

Post by ajohnstone
We shall just have to wait and see but i know you'll disagree but i think
the threat posed comes from the Right-wing and not Antifa or BLM.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-10-10/what-happens-if-armed-right-wing-groups-polls
“Local officials, law enforcement, and voters need to know that
groups of armed individuals have no legal authority under federal or state
law to show up at voting locations claiming to protect or patrol the
polls,” said Mary McCord, Legal Director of ICAP and a former
Acting Assistant Attorney General for National Security at the Department
of Justice. “Given the increasing self-deployment of private
unlawful militias

What makes them unlawful?

Post by ajohnstone
during protests against racial injustice across the
country, intimidating peaceful protesters

Now I know that Mary McCord is a liar engaging in spin. Many of these
events were riots, and in many of these events the left seems to have
brought all kinds of weapons, and at many of these event innocent people
were attacked. So who were the intimidators and who were the
intimidated?

Post by ajohnstone
and heightening the risk of
violence—

It seems there is all sorts of violence (that seems to be escaping Mary
McCort`s attention) with many of these events whether there is a right
wing militia present or not. Is she saying it was Kyle Rittenhouse`s
presence that made the protesters try to burn down a gas station in
Kenosha? And why did all those "peaceful protestors" who chased him happen
to have guns and pipes and molotov cocktails?

Post by ajohnstone
sometimes with tragic results—

Like that leftist hired by a news station that ended up killing a Trump
supporter?
https://www.9news.com/article/news/crime/unlicensed-security-guard-dolloff-charges/73-bb38a6db-d929-46d3-8177-6a376c174ea8
The leftist media is allowed to have their own armed militia to protect
them, but people can`t arm themselves to protect their communities.

Post by ajohnstone
communities must
prepare for similar unlawful private militia activity and intimidation in
connection with the election.â �

But we shouldn`t be concerned at all about large groups of leftists
burning, looting and attacking people.
"Isn`t "No Justice, No Peace" just a threat. Aren`t leftists already
threatening violence if Trump gets elected? So instead they focus
attention at a boogeyman they can`t show is any real threat at all.

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/our-press-releases/fact-sheets-on-unlawful-militias-for-all-50-states-now-available-from-georgetown-laws-institute-for-constitutional-advocacy-and-protection/

Then we have this story which has gone viral about some ditz who claims
https://www.insider.com/francia-raisa-trump-supporters-rally-blocked-car-video-2020-10
She says they were laughing at her because she is Mexican? Really? How did
they know she was Mexican? Was she flying a Mexican flag? Was she wearing
a sombrero? She got boxed in on the 405. Welcome to everyday traffic in
southern California.
Of course the media is all over this story. They ignored all those
incidents of people getting trapped in their cars during "mostly peaceful
protests" in which they were threatened and had their windows smashed in
but because this one woman goes into hysterics because she got boxed in on
the freeway, that's news.
Oh, did we forget to mention she is an organ donor?

This nonsense happens all the time with the media, they have to
perpetuate the myth that Trump is breeding a culture of hate (which
incidentally needs to be countered by a culture of hate). Even Obama is
peddling this lie...
"Why would we accept this from the president of the United States, and
why are folks making excuses for that?" Obama said. "There are
consequences to these actions. They embolden other people to be cruel and
divisive and racist."
I remember Ferguson burning while Obama was President.
This one happened here in Philly last month, a transgender person was
in her home when a ruckus occurred outside of it. She went out and told
them to take it elsewhere, when she was predictably attacked. Now if this
happens to you or I, this is not news, but when it happens to a trans
person hate crime units and the media are mobilized.
https://6abc.com/arrest-made-after-transgender-philly-woman-beaten-inside-her-home/6565744/
I can put on a dress and walk anywhere in Philadelphia safely, but I
can`t put on a Trump hat and do it.

What if you put on both and got beat up? How would the media deal with
that?

[ajohnstone]

Republicans accuse Democrats of being in collusion with BLM and Antifa to
establish a socialist tyranny. Democrats accuse Republicans of marching
with the militias and Proud Boys towards a fascist dictatorship. Both
accuse the other of preparing for a coup if defeated in November.
Portraying the two-party duopoly through the lens of its extremist wings
is misleading. It leads people to see them as more significantly different
than they are, when, in fact, on all the matters of real importance and
not just the mere tokenism of identity politics and gesture policies, both
agree. You seem to forget that Biden's allies are also on the other side
of the aisle. Mitt Romney and Biden don't have much daylight between their
positions, do they?

It was not the Republicans that defeated Sanders Medicare for All - it was
the Democratic Party. It was not the Republicans that defeated AOC's Green
New Deal - it was the Democratic Party.

As for the other comment. We know full well the differences between the
Democratic Party and the Dixiecrats. But if you insist, are you saying
Lincoln holds the same views as to-day's Republicans when he stated the
following:

"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit
of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed.
Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher
consideration."

"The world is agreed that labor is the source from which human wants are
mainly supplied. There is no dispute upon this point." 

"If at any time all labor should cease, and all existing provisions be
equally divided among the people, at the end of a single year there could
scarcely be one human being left alive---all would have perished by want
of subsistence." 

"Labor is the great source from which nearly all, if not all, human
comforts and necessities are drawn."�=A"And I am glad to know that there
is a system of labor -> where the laborer can strike if he wants to! I
would to God that such a system prevailed all over the world."

"And, inasmuch as most good things are produced by labour, it follows that
all such things of right belong to those whose labour has produced them.
But it has so happened in all ages of the world, that some have laboured,
and others have, without labour, enjoyed a large proportion of the fruits.
This is wrong, and should not continue. To secure to each labourer the
whole product of his labour, or as nearly as possible, is a most worthy
object of any good government." 

“I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. . . . corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed.”

(apologies to those who remember i already drew attention to those quotes from Lincoln but they do serve as evidence that the Republican Party who under Nixon wooed and courted and won over the Dixiecrats changed politics.)

And if you want to ridicule the left, i suggest you follow its own inane logic. The Left insisted that Trump was the anti-Christ and that working people should vote for the lesser evil, a saintly grandfatherly figure such as Biden and they told lies about Biden to get him elected.

But they propose that when Biden is in office to begin organizing campaigns to save the world from the very evil they just helped to put into the White House. Now we are expected to believe the conservative narrative that Biden can be pressured into taking a hard-left turn, ignoring the reality he had already rejected the soft-left policies of Sanders and co. Pelosi and Schumer hold the reins of the Democratic Party, not the Squad who will remain on the periphery fringe, offering left-wing legitimacy to the Democratic Party, that is why they are tolerated.

The outcome is predictable as in all previous election circles. Biden will fail to fulfill his campaign promises and people will be disillusioned and they will once more opt for the Republican promises...and when they fail...they will return to the Democrats...ad nauseum. Read your history book.

[John Corbett]

Post by ajohnstone
Republicans accuse Democrats of being in collusion with BLM and Antifa to
establish a socialist tyranny. Democrats accuse Republicans of marching
with the militias and Proud Boys towards a fascist dictatorship. Both
accuse the other of preparing for a coup if defeated in November.
Portraying the two-party duopoly through the lens of its extremist wings
is misleading. It leads people to see them as more significantly different
than they are, when, in fact, on all the matters of real importance and
not just the mere tokenism of identity politics and gesture policies, both
agree. You seem to forget that Biden's allies are also on the other side
of the aisle. Mitt Romney and Biden don't have much daylight between their
positions, do they?

Romney is a classic RINO. If I could take back one vote in my life, it
would be the one I gave him in 2012. I wasn't thrilled about it but I knew
there was a real chance Kennedy, Thomas, or Scalia would leave the SCOTUS
during the next president's term and I didn't want Obama to replace one of
them with a liberal justice because it would give the liberals a majority.
That is nearly what happened but thankfully Mitch McConnell stood firm and
that nightmare scenario didn't play out.

Post by ajohnstone
It was not the Republicans that defeated Sanders Medicare for All - it was
the Democratic Party. It was not the Republicans that defeated AOC's Green
New Deal - it was the Democratic Party.

None of that could have happened as long as the Republicans hold the
Senate. If the Democrats gain control of the Senate and the White House,
those are on the agenda. They just won't tell the voters that because that
would make it difficult for them to gain full control.

Post by ajohnstone
As for the other comment. We know full well the differences between the
Democratic Party and the Dixiecrats. But if you insist, are you saying
Lincoln holds the same views as to-day's Republicans when he stated the
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit
of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed.
Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher
consideration."

Labor and capital are both necessary for a prosperous society.

Post by ajohnstone
"The world is agreed that labor is the source from which human wants are
mainly supplied. There is no dispute upon this point." 
"If at any time all labor should cease, and all existing provisions be
equally divided among the people, at the end of a single year there could
scarcely be one human being left alive---all would have perished by want
of subsistence." 

Capital is required to pay the laborers.

Post by ajohnstone
"Labor is the great source from which nearly all, if not all, human
comforts and necessities are drawn."ÂA"And I am glad to know that there
is a system of labor -> where the laborer can strike if he wants to! I
would to God that such a system prevailed all over the world."
"And, inasmuch as most good things are produced by labour, it follows that
all such things of right belong to those whose labour has produced them.
But it has so happened in all ages of the world, that some have laboured,
and others have, without labour, enjoyed a large proportion of the fruits.
This is wrong, and should not continue. To secure to each labourer the
whole product of his labour, or as nearly as possible, is a most worthy
object of any good government." 

If capitalists have no incentive to invest their capital, labor won't get
paid. Labor and capital are as intertwined as the chicken and the egg.

Post by ajohnstone
“I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. . . . corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed.”

There is plenty of wealth and it isn't in the hands of a few. Our country has prospered more than any other in the history of mankind.

Post by ajohnstone
(apologies to those who remember i already drew attention to those quotes from Lincoln but they do serve as evidence that the Republican Party who under Nixon wooed and courted and won over the Dixiecrats changed politics.)

The Dixiecrats do not exist in the today's Republican Party. Nobody is
talking about segregation anymore.

Post by ajohnstone
And if you want to ridicule the left, i suggest you follow its own inane logic. The Left insisted that Trump was the anti-Christ and that working people should vote for the lesser evil, a saintly grandfatherly figure such as Biden and they told lies about Biden to get him elected.

It isn't necessary to lie about Biden. He has produced enough legitimate
fodder during his 47 years inoffice.

Post by ajohnstone
But they propose that when Biden is in office to begin organizing campaigns to save the world from the very evil they just helped to put into the White House. Now we are expected to believe the conservative narrative that Biden can be pressured into taking a hard-left turn, ignoring the reality he had already rejected the soft-left policies of Sanders and co. Pelosi and Schumer hold the reins of the Democratic Party, not the Squad who will remain on the periphery fringe, offering left-wing legitimacy to the Democratic Party, that is why they are tolerated.

Schumer and Pelosi are so scared of the radical left they will do what
they are told. I doubt there has ever been a weaker Speaker than Nancy
Pelosi. Can you imagine strong Speakers from the past such as Sam Rayburn,
Tip O'Neill, or Newt Gingrich kowtowing to a group of freshman back
benchers the way Pelosi has to The Squad. When those guys were in charge,
the last time a freshman would even get face time with the Speaker would
be when they got sworn it.

Post by ajohnstone
The outcome is predictable as in all previous election circles. Biden will fail to fulfill his campaign promises

That would actually be a good thing. But Biden won't be in charge. He'll
probably get an office in the basement and Harris will occasionally send
down some papers for him to sign.

Post by ajohnstone
and people will be disillusioned and they will once more opt for the Republican promises...and when they fail...they will return to the Democrats...ad nauseum. Read your history book.

The congressional radicals will be steering the ship if the Democrats get
all three levers of power. Biden is not going to stand up to them. When
they pass a bill to expand the Supreme Court, do you really think Biden is
going to veto it. Fat chance. Biden won't even be necessary to grant
statehood to DC and Puerto Rico. Congress can do that on its own.

Donald Trump has either done or tried to do everything he campaigned on.
Obamacare would have been repealed if not for John McCain siding with the
Democrats. He's building the wall. He passed a massive tax cut. He has
reduced regulation. He has appointed true conservatives to SCOTUS and the
lower courts. He renegotiated NAFTA and withdrew from the TPP. He has
strengthened the military and reduced our involvement in foreign
entanglements. What did he promise that he didn't at least try to deliver?

[Jason Burke]

Post by John Corbett

Post by ajohnstone
Republicans accuse Democrats of being in collusion with BLM and Antifa to
establish a socialist tyranny. Democrats accuse Republicans of marching
with the militias and Proud Boys towards a fascist dictatorship. Both
accuse the other of preparing for a coup if defeated in November.
Portraying the two-party duopoly through the lens of its extremist wings
is misleading. It leads people to see them as more significantly different
than they are, when, in fact, on all the matters of real importance and
not just the mere tokenism of identity politics and gesture policies, both
agree. You seem to forget that Biden's allies are also on the other side
of the aisle. Mitt Romney and Biden don't have much daylight between their
positions, do they?

Romney is a classic RINO. If I could take back one vote in my life, it
would be the one I gave him in 2012. I wasn't thrilled about it but I knew
there was a real chance Kennedy, Thomas, or Scalia would leave the SCOTUS
during the next president's term and I didn't want Obama to replace one of
them with a liberal justice because it would give the liberals a majority.
That is nearly what happened but thankfully Mitch McConnell stood firm and
that nightmare scenario didn't play out.

Post by ajohnstone
It was not the Republicans that defeated Sanders Medicare for All - it was
the Democratic Party. It was not the Republicans that defeated AOC's Green
New Deal - it was the Democratic Party.

None of that could have happened as long as the Republicans hold the
Senate. If the Democrats gain control of the Senate and the White House,
those are on the agenda. They just won't tell the voters that because that
would make it difficult for them to gain full control.

Post by ajohnstone
As for the other comment. We know full well the differences between the
Democratic Party and the Dixiecrats. But if you insist, are you saying
Lincoln holds the same views as to-day's Republicans when he stated the
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit
of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed.
Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher
consideration."

Labor and capital are both necessary for a prosperous society.

Post by ajohnstone
"The world is agreed that labor is the source from which human wants are
mainly supplied. There is no dispute upon this point."
"If at any time all labor should cease, and all existing provisions be
equally divided among the people, at the end of a single year there could
scarcely be one human being left alive---all would have perished by want
of subsistence."

Capital is required to pay the laborers.

Post by ajohnstone
"Labor is the great source from which nearly all, if not all, human
comforts and necessities are drawn."??A"And I am glad to know that there
is a system of labor -> where the laborer can strike if he wants to! I
would to God that such a system prevailed all over the world."
"And, inasmuch as most good things are produced by labour, it follows that
all such things of right belong to those whose labour has produced them.
But it has so happened in all ages of the world, that some have laboured,
and others have, without labour, enjoyed a large proportion of the fruits.
This is wrong, and should not continue. To secure to each labourer the
whole product of his labour, or as nearly as possible, is a most worthy
object of any good government."

If capitalists have no incentive to invest their capital, labor won't get
paid. Labor and capital are as intertwined as the chicken and the egg.

Post by ajohnstone
???I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. . . . corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed.???

There is plenty of wealth and it isn't in the hands of a few. Our country has prospered more than any other in the history of mankind.

Post by ajohnstone
(apologies to those who remember i already drew attention to those quotes from Lincoln but they do serve as evidence that the Republican Party who under Nixon wooed and courted and won over the Dixiecrats changed politics.)

The Dixiecrats do not exist in the today's Republican Party. Nobody is
talking about segregation anymore.

Post by ajohnstone
And if you want to ridicule the left, i suggest you follow its own inane logic. The Left insisted that Trump was the anti-Christ and that working people should vote for the lesser evil, a saintly grandfatherly figure such as Biden and they told lies about Biden to get him elected.

It isn't necessary to lie about Biden. He has produced enough legitimate
fodder during his 47 years inoffice.

Post by ajohnstone
But they propose that when Biden is in office to begin organizing campaigns to save the world from the very evil they just helped to put into the White House. Now we are expected to believe the conservative narrative that Biden can be pressured into taking a hard-left turn, ignoring the reality he had already rejected the soft-left policies of Sanders and co. Pelosi and Schumer hold the reins of the Democratic Party, not the Squad who will remain on the periphery fringe, offering left-wing legitimacy to the Democratic Party, that is why they are tolerated.

Schumer and Pelosi are so scared of the radical left they will do what
they are told. I doubt there has ever been a weaker Speaker than Nancy
Pelosi. Can you imagine strong Speakers from the past such as Sam Rayburn,
Tip O'Neill, or Newt Gingrich kowtowing to a group of freshman back
benchers the way Pelosi has to The Squad. When those guys were in charge,
the last time a freshman would even get face time with the Speaker would
be when they got sworn it.

Post by ajohnstone
The outcome is predictable as in all previous election circles. Biden will fail to fulfill his campaign promises

That would actually be a good thing. But Biden won't be in charge. He'll
probably get an office in the basement and Harris will occasionally send
down some papers for him to sign.

Post by ajohnstone
and people will be disillusioned and they will once more opt for the Republican promises...and when they fail...they will return to the Democrats...ad nauseum. Read your history book.

The congressional radicals will be steering the ship if the Democrats get
all three levers of power. Biden is not going to stand up to them. When
they pass a bill to expand the Supreme Court, do you really think Biden is
going to veto it. Fat chance. Biden won't even be necessary to grant
statehood to DC and Puerto Rico. Congress can do that on its own.
Donald Trump has either done or tried to do everything he campaigned on.
Obamacare would have been repealed if not for John McCain siding with the
Democrats. He's building the wall. He passed a massive tax cut. He has
reduced regulation. He has appointed true conservatives to SCOTUS and the
lower courts. He renegotiated NAFTA and withdrew from the TPP. He has
strengthened the military and reduced our involvement in foreign
entanglements. What did he promise that he didn't at least try to deliver?

But... But...

Orange man bad.

This seems to be 95% of the dem platform.

[ajohnstone]

“The white liberal is the worst enemy to America, and the worst enemy to the black man. Let me explain what I mean by the white liberal. In America there is no such thing as Democrat or Republican anymore. In America you have liberals and conservatives. The only people living in the past who think in terms of I’m a Democrat or Republican, is the American Negro. He’s the one that runs around bragging about party affiliation. He’s the one that sticks to the Democrat or sticks to the Republican.

But white people are divided into two groups, liberals and conservative. The Democrats who are conservative, vote with the Republicans who are conservative. The Democrats who are liberal vote with the Republicans that are liberal. The white liberal aren’t white people who are for independence, who are moral and ethical in their thinking. They are just a faction of white people that are jockeying for power.

The same as the white conservative is a faction of white people that are jockeying for power. They are fighting each other for power and prestige, and the one that is the football in the game is the Negro, 20 million black people. A political football, a political pawn, an economic football, and economic pawn. A social football, a social pawn. The liberal elements of whites are those who have perfected the art of selling themselves to the Negro as a friend of the Negro. Getting sympathy of the Negro, getting the allegiance of the Negro, and getting the mind of the Negro. Then the Negro sides with the white liberal, and the white liberal use the Negro against the white conservative. So that anything that the Negro does is never for his own good, never for his own advancement, never for his own progress, he’s only a pawn in the hands of the white liberal. The worst enemy that the Negro have is this white man that runs around here drooling at the mouth professing to love Negros, and calling himself a liberal, and it is following these white liberals that has perpetuated problems that Negros have. If the Negro wasn’t taken, tricked, or deceived by the white liberal then Negros would get together and solve our own problems.

I only cite these things to show you that in America the history of the white liberal has been nothing but a series of trickery designed to make Negros think that the white liberal was going to solve our problems. Our problems will never be solved by the white man. The only way that our problem will be solved is when the black man wakes up, clean himself up, stand on his own feet and stop begging the white man, and take immediate steps to do for ourselves the things that we have been waiting on the white man to do for us. Once we do for self then we will be able to solve our own problems’

The white conservatives aren't friends of the Negro either, but they at least don't try to hide it. They are like wolves; they show their teeth in a snarl that keeps the Negro always aware of where he stands with them. But the white liberals are foxes, who also show their teeth to the Negro but pretend that they are smiling. The white liberals are more dangerous than the conservatives; they lure the Negro, and as the Negro runs from the growling wolf, he flees into the open jaws of the "smiling" fox. One is the wolf, the other is a fox. No matter what, they’ll both eat you.”

Malcom X was astute in his observation even after 60 years. We see it today. As soon as BLM began to act for themselves we find it being hijacked by the Democrat party machine and local Democratic Party politicians. co=opting it with various cosmetic reforms. Power is being stolen from the BLM by white progressive liberals.

[John Corbett]

Post by ajohnstone
“The white liberal is the worst enemy to America, and the worst enemy to the black man. Let me explain what I mean by the white liberal. In America there is no such thing as Democrat or Republican anymore. In America you have liberals and conservatives. The only people living in the past who think in terms of I’m a Democrat or Republican, is the American Negro. He’s the one that runs around bragging about party affiliation. He’s the one that sticks to the Democrat or sticks to the Republican.
But white people are divided into two groups, liberals and conservative. The Democrats who are conservative, vote with the Republicans who are conservative. The Democrats who are liberal vote with the Republicans that are liberal. The white liberal aren’t white people who are for independence, who are moral and ethical in their thinking. They are just a faction of white people that are jockeying for power.
The same as the white conservative is a faction of white people that are jockeying for power. They are fighting each other for power and prestige, and the one that is the football in the game is the Negro, 20 million black people. A political football, a political pawn, an economic football, and economic pawn. A social football, a social pawn. The liberal elements of whites are those who have perfected the art of selling themselves to the Negro as a friend of the Negro. Getting sympathy of the Negro, getting the allegiance of the Negro, and getting the mind of the Negro. Then the Negro sides with the white liberal, and the white liberal use the Negro against the white conservative. So that anything that the Negro does is never for his own good, never for his own advancement, never for his own progress, he’s only a pawn in the hands of the white liberal. The worst enemy that the Negro have is this white man that runs around here drooling at the mouth professing to love Negros, and calling himself a liberal, and it is following these white liberals that has perpetuated problems that Negros have. If the Negro wasn’t taken, tricked, or deceived by the white liberal then Negros would get together and solve our own problems.
I only cite these things to show you that in America the history of the white liberal has been nothing but a series of trickery designed to make Negros think that the white liberal was going to solve our problems. Our problems will never be solved by the white man. The only way that our problem will be solved is when the black man wakes up, clean himself up, stand on his own feet and stop begging the white man, and take immediate steps to do for ourselves the things that we have been waiting on the white man to do for us. Once we do for self then we will be able to solve our own problems’
The white conservatives aren't friends of the Negro either, but they at least don't try to hide it. They are like wolves; they show their teeth in a snarl that keeps the Negro always aware of where he stands with them. But the white liberals are foxes, who also show their teeth to the Negro but pretend that they are smiling. The white liberals are more dangerous than the conservatives; they lure the Negro, and as the Negro runs from the growling wolf, he flees into the open jaws of the "smiling" fox. One is the wolf, the other is a fox. No matter what, they’ll both eat you.”
Malcom X was astute in his observation even after 60 years. We see it today. As soon as BLM began to act for themselves we find it being hijacked by the Democrat party machine and local Democratic Party politicians. co=opting it with various cosmetic reforms. Power is being stolen from the BLM by white progressive liberals.

The fascinating question is when are black voters going to wake up to this
fact? Why do they keep voting 90+ per cent for Democrat candidates when
all the Democrats ever do is exploit them without ever doing anything for
them? Democrats rely on large numbers of blacks remaining in poverty. If
they ever were able to actually improve their lot economically, they might
start voting Republican. Horrors!!!

[Jason Burke]

Post by John Corbett

Post by ajohnstone
“The white liberal is the worst enemy to America, and the worst enemy to the black man. Let me explain what I mean by the white liberal. In America there is no such thing as Democrat or Republican anymore. In America you have liberals and conservatives. The only people living in the past who think in terms of I’m a Democrat or Republican, is the American Negro. He’s the one that runs around bragging about party affiliation. He’s the one that sticks to the Democrat or sticks to the Republican.
But white people are divided into two groups, liberals and conservative. The Democrats who are conservative, vote with the Republicans who are conservative. The Democrats who are liberal vote with the Republicans that are liberal. The white liberal aren’t white people who are for independence, who are moral and ethical in their thinking. They are just a faction of white people that are jockeying for power.
The same as the white conservative is a faction of white people that are jockeying for power. They are fighting each other for power and prestige, and the one that is the football in the game is the Negro, 20 million black people. A political football, a political pawn, an economic football, and economic pawn. A social football, a social pawn. The liberal elements of whites are those who have perfected the art of selling themselves to the Negro as a friend of the Negro. Getting sympathy of the Negro, getting the allegiance of the Negro, and getting the mind of the Negro. Then the Negro sides with the white liberal, and the white liberal use the Negro against the white conservative. So that anything that the Negro does is never for his own good, never for his own advancement, never for his own progress, he’s only a pawn in the hands of the white liberal. The worst enemy that the Negro have is this white man that runs around here drooling at the mouth professing to love Negros, and calling himself a liberal, and it is following these white liberals that has perpetuated problems that Negros have. If the Negro wasn’t taken, tricked, or deceived by the white liberal then Negros would get together and solve our own problems.
I only cite these things to show you that in America the history of the white liberal has been nothing but a series of trickery designed to make Negros think that the white liberal was going to solve our problems. Our problems will never be solved by the white man. The only way that our problem will be solved is when the black man wakes up, clean himself up, stand on his own feet and stop begging the white man, and take immediate steps to do for ourselves the things that we have been waiting on the white man to do for us. Once we do for self then we will be able to solve our own problems’
The white conservatives aren't friends of the Negro either, but they at least don't try to hide it. They are like wolves; they show their teeth in a snarl that keeps the Negro always aware of where he stands with them. But the white liberals are foxes, who also show their teeth to the Negro but pretend that they are smiling. The white liberals are more dangerous than the conservatives; they lure the Negro, and as the Negro runs from the growling wolf, he flees into the open jaws of the "smiling" fox. One is the wolf, the other is a fox. No matter what, they’ll both eat you.”
Malcom X was astute in his observation even after 60 years. We see it today. As soon as BLM began to act for themselves we find it being hijacked by the Democrat party machine and local Democratic Party politicians. co=opting it with various cosmetic reforms. Power is being stolen from the BLM by white progressive liberals.

The fascinating question is when are black voters going to wake up to this
fact? Why do they keep voting 90+ per cent for Democrat candidates when
all the Democrats ever do is exploit them without ever doing anything for
them? Democrats rely on large numbers of blacks remaining in poverty. If
they ever were able to actually improve their lot economically, they might
start voting Republican. Horrors!!!

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by John Corbett

Post by ajohnstone
“The white liberal is the worst enemy to America, and the worst enemy to the black man. Let me explain what I mean by the white liberal. In America there is no such thing as Democrat or Republican anymore. In America you have liberals and conservatives. The only people living in the past who think in terms of I’m a Democrat or Republican, is the American Negro. He’s the one that runs around bragging about party affiliation. He’s the one that sticks to the Democrat or sticks to the Republican.
But white people are divided into two groups, liberals and conservative. The Democrats who are conservative, vote with the Republicans who are conservative. The Democrats who are liberal vote with the Republicans that are liberal. The white liberal aren’t white people who are for independence, who are moral and ethical in their thinking. They are just a faction of white people that are jockeying for power.
The same as the white conservative is a faction of white people that are jockeying for power. They are fighting each other for power and prestige, and the one that is the football in the game is the Negro, 20 million black people. A political football, a political pawn, an economic football, and economic pawn. A social football, a social pawn. The liberal elements of whites are those who have perfected the art of selling themselves to the Negro as a friend of the Negro. Getting sympathy of the Negro, getting the allegiance of the Negro, and getting the mind of the Negro. Then the Negro sides with the white liberal, and the white liberal use the Negro against the white conservative. So that anything that the Negro does is never for his own good, never for his own advancement, never for his own progress, he’s only a pawn in the hands of the white liberal. The worst enemy that the Negro have is this white man that runs around here drooling at the mouth professing to love Negros, and calling himself a liberal, and it is following these white liberals that has perpetuated problems that Negros have. If the Negro wasn’t taken, tricked, or deceived by the white liberal then Negros would get together and solve our own problems.
I only cite these things to show you that in America the history of the white liberal has been nothing but a series of trickery designed to make Negros think that the white liberal was going to solve our problems. Our problems will never be solved by the white man. The only way that our problem will be solved is when the black man wakes up, clean himself up, stand on his own feet and stop begging the white man, and take immediate steps to do for ourselves the things that we have been waiting on the white man to do for us. Once we do for self then we will be able to solve our own problems’
The white conservatives aren't friends of the Negro either, but they at least don't try to hide it. They are like wolves; they show their teeth in a snarl that keeps the Negro always aware of where he stands with them. But the white liberals are foxes, who also show their teeth to the Negro but pretend that they are smiling. The white liberals are more dangerous than the conservatives; they lure the Negro, and as the Negro runs from the growling wolf, he flees into the open jaws of the "smiling" fox. One is the wolf, the other is a fox. No matter what, they’ll both eat you.”
Malcom X was astute in his observation even after 60 years. We see it today. As soon as BLM began to act for themselves we find it being hijacked by the Democrat party machine and local Democratic Party politicians. co=opting it with various cosmetic reforms. Power is being stolen from the BLM by white progressive liberals.

The fascinating question is when are black voters going to wake up to this
fact? Why do they keep voting 90+ per cent for Democrat candidates when

Voting Rights Act.

Post by John Corbett
all the Democrats ever do is exploit them without ever doing anything for
them? Democrats rely on large numbers of blacks remaining in poverty. If

onsense. You complain about all thre FREE things that Democrats dive
them like Food Stamps and Minimum Wage.

Post by John Corbett
they ever were able to actually improve their lot economically, they might
start voting Republican. Horrors!!!

One or Two of them do vote Republican, if you bribe them with millions

[Anthony Marsh]

???The white liberal is the worst enemy to America, and the worst enemy to the black man. Let me explain what I mean by the white liberal. In America there is no such thing as Democrat or Republican anymore. In America you have liberals and conservatives. The only people living in the past who think in terms of I???m a Democrat or Republican, is the American Negro. He???s the one that runs around bragging about party affiliation. He???s the one that sticks to the Democrat or sticks to the Republican.
But white people are divided into two groups, liberals and conservative.
The Democrats who are

BUT the quote specified Liberals. By definition libeerals are not
racists. Conservatives are.

conservative, vote with the Republicans who are conservative. The
Democrats who are liberal vote with the Republicans that are liberal.
The white liberal aren???t white people who are for independence, who are
moral and ethical in their thinking. They are just a faction of white
people that are jockeying for power.
Nost conservatives are Republicans, although many left the Republican
Party in reaction to Trump.

The same as the white conservative is a faction of white people that are
jockeying for power. They

Sure, fraction. Like what? 85%. Vast majority.

are fighting each other for power and prestige, and the one that is the
football in the game is the Negro, 20 million black people. A political
football, a political pawn, an economic football, and economic pawn. A
social football, a social pawn. The liberal elements of whites are those
who have perfected the art of selling themselves to the Negro as a
friend of the Negro. Getting sympathy of the Negro, getting the
allegiance of the Negro, and getting the mind of the Negro. Then the
Negro sides with the white liberal, and the white liberal use the Negro
against the white conservative. So that

What choice do blacks have when white conservatives are the ones trying
to kill them?

anything that the Negro does is never for his own good, never for his
own advancement, never for his own progress, he???s only a pawn in the
hands of the white liberal. The worst enemy that the Negro have

Whoever said that is just racist.

is this white man that runs around here drooling at the mouth
professing to love Negros, and calling himself a liberal, and it is
following these white liberals that has perpetuated problems that Negros
have. If the Negro wasn???t taken, tricked, or deceived by the white
liberal then Negros would get together and solve our own problems.
No such person exists.

I only cite these things to show you that in America the history of the white liberal has been nothing but a series of trickery designed to make Negros think that the white liberal was going to solve our problems. Our problems will never be solved by the white man. The only way that our problem will be solved is when the black man wakes up, clean himself up, stand on his own feet and stop begging the white man, and take immediate steps to do for ourselves the things that we have been waiting on the white man to do for us. Once we do for self then we will be able to solve our own problems???
The white conservatives aren't friends of the Negro either, but they at
least don't try to hide it.

OF COURSE they do, like Trup saying that he is the least racist person.
Whateve he says is the opposite of reality.

They are like wolves; they show their teeth in a snarl that keeps the
Negro always aware of where he stands with them. But the white liberals
are foxes, who also show their teeth to the Negro but pretend that they
are smiling. The white liberals are more dangerous than the
conservatives; they lure the Negro, and as the Negro runs from the
growling wolf, he flees into the open jaws of the "smiling" fox. One is
the wolf, the other is a fox. No matter what, they???ll both eat you.???
Whoever wrote that is clinically insane.

Malcom X was astute in his observation even after 60 years. We see it
today. As soon as BLM began to act for themselves we find it being
hijacked by the Democrat party machine and local Democratic Party
politicians. co=opting it with various cosmetic reforms. Power is being
stolen from the BLM by white progressive liberals.

No.

[John Corbett]

Post by Anthony Marsh

???The white liberal is the worst enemy to America, and the worst enemy to the black man. Let me explain what I mean by the white liberal. In America there is no such thing as Democrat or Republican anymore. In America you have liberals and conservatives. The only people living in the past who think in terms of I???m a Democrat or Republican, is the American Negro. He???s the one that runs around bragging about party affiliation. He???s the one that sticks to the Democrat or sticks to the Republican.
But white people are divided into two groups, liberals and conservative.
The Democrats who are

BUT the quote specified Liberals. By definition libeerals are not
racists. Conservatives are.

Whose definitions? Yours? I'm sorry. Those questions pretty much answered themselves.

Post by Anthony Marsh
conservative, vote with the Republicans who are conservative. The
Democrats who are liberal vote with the Republicans that are liberal.
The white liberal aren???t white people who are for independence, who are
moral and ethical in their thinking. They are just a faction of white
people that are jockeying for power.

Ah, the politics of victimhood.

Post by Anthony Marsh
Nost conservatives are Republicans, although many left the Republican
Party in reaction to Trump.

The same as the white conservative is a faction of white people that are
jockeying for power. They

Sure, fraction. Like what? 85%. Vast majority.
are fighting each other for power and prestige, and the one that is the
football in the game is the Negro, 20 million black people. A political
football, a political pawn, an economic football, and economic pawn. A
social football, a social pawn. The liberal elements of whites are those
who have perfected the art of selling themselves to the Negro as a
friend of the Negro. Getting sympathy of the Negro, getting the
allegiance of the Negro, and getting the mind of the Negro. Then the
Negro sides with the white liberal, and the white liberal use the Negro
against the white conservative. So that
What choice do blacks have when white conservatives are the ones trying
to kill them?

This can only be described as pathetic.

Post by Anthony Marsh
anything that the Negro does is never for his own good, never for his
own advancement, never for his own progress, he???s only a pawn in the
hands of the white liberal. The worst enemy that the Negro have
Whoever said that is just racist.

Malcom X said that and you have already gone one record as saying black people can't be racist so once again you have contradicted yourself.

Post by Anthony Marsh
is this white man that runs around here drooling at the mouth
professing to love Negros, and calling himself a liberal, and it is
following these white liberals that has perpetuated problems that Negros
have. If the Negro wasn???t taken, tricked, or deceived by the white
liberal then Negros would get together and solve our own problems.
No such person exists.

I only cite these things to show you that in America the history of the white liberal has been nothing but a series of trickery designed to make Negros think that the white liberal was going to solve our problems. Our problems will never be solved by the white man. The only way that our problem will be solved is when the black man wakes up, clean himself up, stand on his own feet and stop begging the white man, and take immediate steps to do for ourselves the things that we have been waiting on the white man to do for us. Once we do for self then we will be able to solve our own problems???
The white conservatives aren't friends of the Negro either, but they at
least don't try to hide it.

OF COURSE they do, like Trup saying that he is the least racist person.
Whateve he says is the opposite of reality.

Was Jesse Jackson lying when he said the African-Americans have no better friend than Donald Trump?

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=youtube+jesse+jackson+praising+donald+trump&view=detail&mid=970B5EA77E999BC8DB25970B5EA77E999BC8DB25&FORM=VIRE

Post by Anthony Marsh
They are like wolves; they show their teeth in a snarl that keeps the
Negro always aware of where he stands with them. But the white liberals
are foxes, who also show their teeth to the Negro but pretend that they
are smiling. The white liberals are more dangerous than the
conservatives; they lure the Negro, and as the Negro runs from the
growling wolf, he flees into the open jaws of the "smiling" fox. One is
the wolf, the other is a fox. No matter what, they???ll both eat you.???
Whoever wrote that is clinically insane.

So you think Malcolm X was insane. Are you a racist?

Post by Anthony Marsh

Malcom X was astute in his observation even after 60 years. We see it
today. As soon as BLM began to act for themselves we find it being
hijacked by the Democrat party machine and local Democratic Party
politicians. co=opting it with various cosmetic reforms. Power is being
stolen from the BLM by white progressive liberals.

No.

Articulate as usual.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone
"Now show an instance of your imaginary scenario."
Come on Bud. You give an example from 10yrs ago but go a bit further back
and recall burning crosses and bombings and killings to intimidate voters.

Which shows we`ve come a long way. It isn`t right wing extremists who try
to intimidate voters, now a days it is left wing extremists. You just can`t
show that these days the right turns up at polling places to intimidate people who are voting.

Post by ajohnstone
And indeed the federal authorities did have to intervene because your
state and local law enforcement were complicit in the violence to suppress
the African American vote. You may have a short memory problem but others
don't.

When problems are fixed you move on.

Post by ajohnstone
Will the militias serve as KKK proxies in 2020?

This is the same nonsense you were worried about some pro-gun folks
opening up websites, or Qanon. You may have missed all the death and
destruction caused by the recent leftist uprisings.

Please ptove what deaths the leftists hsve caused. Any lynching or
choke holds?

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone
We shall just have to wait and see but i know you'll disagree but i think
the threat posed comes from the Right-wing and not Antifa or BLM.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-10-10/what-happens-if-armed-right-wing-groups-polls
???Local officials, law enforcement, and voters need to know that
groups of armed individuals have no legal authority under federal or state
law to show up at voting locations claiming to protect or patrol the
polls,??? said Mary McCord, Legal Director of ICAP and a former
Acting Assistant Attorney General for National Security at the Department
of Justice. ???Given the increasing self-deployment of private
unlawful militias

What makes them unlawful?

Post by ajohnstone
during protests against racial injustice across the
country, intimidating peaceful protesters

Now I know that Mary McCord is a liar engaging in spin. Many of these
events were riots, and in many of these events the left seems to have
brought all kinds of weapons, and at many of these event innocent people
were attacked. So who were the intimidators and who were the
intimidated?

Post by ajohnstone
and heightening the risk of
violence???

It seems there is all sorts of violence (that seems to be escaping Mary
McCort`s attention) with many of these events whether there is a right
wing militia present or not. Is she saying it was Kyle Rittenhouse`s
presence that made the protesters try to burn down a gas station in
Kenosha? And why did all those "peaceful protestors" who chased him happen
to have guns and pipes and molotov cocktails?

Post by ajohnstone
sometimes with tragic results???

Like that leftist hired by a news station that ended up killing a Trump
supporter?
https://www.9news.com/article/news/crime/unlicensed-security-guard-dolloff-charges/73-bb38a6db-d929-46d3-8177-6a376c174ea8
The leftist media is allowed to have their own armed militia to protect
them, but people can`t arm themselves to protect their communities.

Post by ajohnstone
communities must
prepare for similar unlawful private militia activity and intimidation in
connection with the election.?? ???

But we shouldn`t be concerned at all about large groups of leftists
burning, looting and attacking people.
"Isn`t "No Justice, No Peace" just a threat. Aren`t leftists already
threatening violence if Trump gets elected? So instead they focus
attention at a boogeyman they can`t show is any real threat at all.

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/our-press-releases/fact-sheets-on-unlawful-militias-for-all-50-states-now-available-from-georgetown-laws-institute-for-constitutional-advocacy-and-protection/

[Bud]

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone
"Now show an instance of your imaginary scenario."
Come on Bud. You give an example from 10yrs ago but go a bit further back
and recall burning crosses and bombings and killings to intimidate voters.

Which shows we`ve come a long way. It isn`t right wing extremists who try
to intimidate voters, now a days it is left wing extremists. You just can`t
show that these days the right turns up at polling places to intimidate people who are voting.

Post by ajohnstone
And indeed the federal authorities did have to intervene because your
state and local law enforcement were complicit in the violence to suppress
the African American vote. You may have a short memory problem but others
don't.

When problems are fixed you move on.

Post by ajohnstone
Will the militias serve as KKK proxies in 2020?

This is the same nonsense you were worried about some pro-gun folks
opening up websites, or Qanon. You may have missed all the death and
destruction caused by the recent leftist uprisings.

Please prove what deaths the leftists hsve caused.

Stop watching only CNN and you`d know these things.

Any lynching or
choke holds?

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone
We shall just have to wait and see but i know you'll disagree but i think
the threat posed comes from the Right-wing and not Antifa or BLM.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-10-10/what-happens-if-armed-right-wing-groups-polls
???Local officials, law enforcement, and voters need to know that
groups of armed individuals have no legal authority under federal or state
law to show up at voting locations claiming to protect or patrol the
polls,??? said Mary McCord, Legal Director of ICAP and a former
Acting Assistant Attorney General for National Security at the Department
of Justice. ???Given the increasing self-deployment of private
unlawful militias

What makes them unlawful?

Post by ajohnstone
during protests against racial injustice across the
country, intimidating peaceful protesters

Now I know that Mary McCord is a liar engaging in spin. Many of these
events were riots, and in many of these events the left seems to have
brought all kinds of weapons, and at many of these event innocent people
were attacked. So who were the intimidators and who were the
intimidated?

Post by ajohnstone
and heightening the risk of
violence???

It seems there is all sorts of violence (that seems to be escaping Mary
McCort`s attention) with many of these events whether there is a right
wing militia present or not. Is she saying it was Kyle Rittenhouse`s
presence that made the protesters try to burn down a gas station in
Kenosha? And why did all those "peaceful protestors" who chased him happen
to have guns and pipes and molotov cocktails?

Post by ajohnstone
sometimes with tragic results???

Like that leftist hired by a news station that ended up killing a Trump
supporter?
https://www.9news.com/article/news/crime/unlicensed-security-guard-dolloff-charges/73-bb38a6db-d929-46d3-8177-6a376c174ea8
The leftist media is allowed to have their own armed militia to protect
them, but people can`t arm themselves to protect their communities.

Post by ajohnstone
communities must
prepare for similar unlawful private militia activity and intimidation in
connection with the election.?? ???

But we shouldn`t be concerned at all about large groups of leftists
burning, looting and attacking people.
"Isn`t "No Justice, No Peace" just a threat. Aren`t leftists already
threatening violence if Trump gets elected? So instead they focus
attention at a boogeyman they can`t show is any real threat at all.

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/our-press-releases/fact-sheets-on-unlawful-militias-for-all-50-states-now-available-from-georgetown-laws-institute-for-constitutional-advocacy-and-protection/

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Bud

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone
"Now show an instance of your imaginary scenario."
Come on Bud. You give an example from 10yrs ago but go a bit further back
and recall burning crosses and bombings and killings to intimidate voters.

Which shows we`ve come a long way. It isn`t right wing extremists who try
to intimidate voters, now a days it is left wing extremists. You just can`t
show that these days the right turns up at polling places to intimidate people who are voting.

Post by ajohnstone
And indeed the federal authorities did have to intervene because your
state and local law enforcement were complicit in the violence to suppress
the African American vote. You may have a short memory problem but others
don't.

When problems are fixed you move on.

Post by ajohnstone
Will the militias serve as KKK proxies in 2020?

This is the same nonsense you were worried about some pro-gun folks
opening up websites, or Qanon. You may have missed all the death and
destruction caused by the recent leftist uprisings.

Please prove what deaths the leftists hsve caused.

Stop watching only CNN and you`d know these things.

Any lynching or
choke holds?

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone
We shall just have to wait and see but i know you'll disagree but i think
the threat posed comes from the Right-wing and not Antifa or BLM.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-10-10/what-happens-if-armed-right-wing-groups-polls

As I predicted you can't stove anything. Ever.

Post by Bud

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone
???Local officials, law enforcement, and voters need to know that
groups of armed individuals have no legal authority under federal or state
law to show up at voting locations claiming to protect or patrol the
polls,??? said Mary McCord, Legal Director of ICAP and a former
Acting Assistant Attorney General for National Security at the Department
of Justice. ???Given the increasing self-deployment of private
unlawful militias

What makes them unlawful?

Post by ajohnstone
during protests against racial injustice across the
country, intimidating peaceful protesters

Now I know that Mary McCord is a liar engaging in spin. Many of these
events were riots, and in many of these events the left seems to have
brought all kinds of weapons, and at many of these event innocent people
were attacked. So who were the intimidators and who were the
intimidated?

Post by ajohnstone
and heightening the risk of
violence???

It seems there is all sorts of violence (that seems to be escaping Mary
McCort`s attention) with many of these events whether there is a right
wing militia present or not. Is she saying it was Kyle Rittenhouse`s
presence that made the protesters try to burn down a gas station in
Kenosha? And why did all those "peaceful protestors" who chased him happen
to have guns and pipes and molotov cocktails?

Post by ajohnstone
sometimes with tragic results???

Like that leftist hired by a news station that ended up killing a Trump
supporter?
https://www.9news.com/article/news/crime/unlicensed-security-guard-dolloff-charges/73-bb38a6db-d929-46d3-8177-6a376c174ea8
The leftist media is allowed to have their own armed militia to protect
them, but people can`t arm themselves to protect their communities.

Post by ajohnstone
communities must
prepare for similar unlawful private militia activity and intimidation in
connection with the election.?? ???

But we shouldn`t be concerned at all about large groups of leftists
burning, looting and attacking people.
"Isn`t "No Justice, No Peace" just a threat. Aren`t leftists already
threatening violence if Trump gets elected? So instead they focus
attention at a boogeyman they can`t show is any real threat at all.

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/our-press-releases/fact-sheets-on-unlawful-militias-for-all-50-states-now-available-from-georgetown-laws-institute-for-constitutional-advocacy-and-protection/

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone
The threat of election interference from militias grow.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/14/armed-militias-conspiracy-theorists-anti-vaxxers-red-pill-expo
Stewart Rhodes, president of the Oath Keepers, ??????You must
organize yourselves in the next 30 days in your towns and counties...we
will have our men deployed outside the polling stations to make sure you
are protected, especially in swing states???.

I`d feel safer if they were at my polling place.

Voting by mail is much safer, In our building we have a bank of in-mail
boxes and several out-mail boxes. I filled out my ballot and mailed it
from my building. I didn't even have to go outside to mail it. In fact I
didn't even have to be alive to vote. Just put th stamp on it and tell my
housekeeper to mail it for me if I am asleep.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone
"There's some question that some of those Michigan people are anarchists
and not militia types. One expressed his loathing of Trump and had an
anarchist flag in his room."
Are you aware of the "national anarchists"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National-anarchism
They advocate a decentralized economic and political system which features
ethnically-pure villages defined by racial separatism. It is rightist
militias masquerading under the black flag of anarchist belief. After all
there is a a long history of such cross-overs.
http://www.politicalresearch.org/2008/01/28/rebranding-fascism-national-anarchists
I don't think we can equate a lone-wolf assassin in 1963 with a
coordinated conspiracy in 2020 nor the similar lone-wolf shooting of
Scalise in 2017. They are qualitatively very different.
And if the riots are organized by any particular group we await evidence
since the FBI have already dismissed such claims but we do have very silly
stories about Soros-instigators placing supplies of bricks at street
corners.
What is ominous is that similar militias will try to "monitor" polling stations and interfere with if not intimidate prospective voters and i lack confidence that the Republican Party has the ability or willingness to distance itself from them. So I would not be so sure that it will be a "one-day story."

Here in Philadelphia in 2008 the New Black Panthers had 300 of it`s
members fan out across the city`s polling places.
http://youtu.be/neGbKHyGuHU
Would you have have seen this as "ominous" and voiced concern about the
Democrats not condemning this activity?

Post by ajohnstone
And in the case of a Biden win that is disputed as fraudulent, who can
foretell what may happen.

It is clear that leftists have been fighting for years to keep the
voting regulations as lax as they could so they could cheat.

Silly as usual. Ever hear of rhe Voting Rights Act? Who passed that?

[John McAdams]

On 13 Oct 2020 02:46:40 -0000, Anthony Marsh

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone
"There's some question that some of those Michigan people are anarchists
and not militia types. One expressed his loathing of Trump and had an
anarchist flag in his room."
Are you aware of the "national anarchists"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National-anarchism
They advocate a decentralized economic and political system which features
ethnically-pure villages defined by racial separatism. It is rightist
militias masquerading under the black flag of anarchist belief. After all
there is a a long history of such cross-overs.
http://www.politicalresearch.org/2008/01/28/rebranding-fascism-national-anarchists
I don't think we can equate a lone-wolf assassin in 1963 with a
coordinated conspiracy in 2020 nor the similar lone-wolf shooting of
Scalise in 2017. They are qualitatively very different.
And if the riots are organized by any particular group we await evidence
since the FBI have already dismissed such claims but we do have very silly
stories about Soros-instigators placing supplies of bricks at street
corners.
What is ominous is that similar militias will try to "monitor" polling stations and interfere with if not intimidate prospective voters and i lack confidence that the Republican Party has the ability or willingness to distance itself from them. So I would not be so sure that it will be a "one-day story."

Here in Philadelphia in 2008 the New Black Panthers had 300 of it`s
members fan out across the city`s polling places.
http://youtu.be/neGbKHyGuHU
Would you have have seen this as "ominous" and voiced concern about the
Democrats not condemning this activity?

Post by ajohnstone
And in the case of a Biden win that is disputed as fraudulent, who can
foretell what may happen.

It is clear that leftists have been fighting for years to keep the
voting regulations as lax as they could so they could cheat.

Silly as usual. Ever hear of rhe Voting Rights Act? Who passed that?

House, Republicans and Democrats about equally:

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/89-1965/h87

Senate, a larger proportion of Republicans than Democrats.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/89-1965/s78

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[Mark]

Post by John McAdams
On 13 Oct 2020 02:46:40 -0000, Anthony Marsh

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone
"There's some question that some of those Michigan people are anarchists
and not militia types. One expressed his loathing of Trump and had an
anarchist flag in his room."
Are you aware of the "national anarchists"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National-anarchism
They advocate a decentralized economic and political system which features
ethnically-pure villages defined by racial separatism. It is rightist
militias masquerading under the black flag of anarchist belief. After all
there is a a long history of such cross-overs.
http://www.politicalresearch.org/2008/01/28/rebranding-fascism-national-anarchists
I don't think we can equate a lone-wolf assassin in 1963 with a
coordinated conspiracy in 2020 nor the similar lone-wolf shooting of
Scalise in 2017. They are qualitatively very different.
And if the riots are organized by any particular group we await evidence
since the FBI have already dismissed such claims but we do have very silly
stories about Soros-instigators placing supplies of bricks at street
corners.
What is ominous is that similar militias will try to "monitor" polling stations and interfere with if not intimidate prospective voters and i lack confidence that the Republican Party has the ability or willingness to distance itself from them. So I would not be so sure that it will be a "one-day story."

Here in Philadelphia in 2008 the New Black Panthers had 300 of it`s
members fan out across the city`s polling places.
http://youtu.be/neGbKHyGuHU
Would you have have seen this as "ominous" and voiced concern about the
Democrats not condemning this activity?

Post by ajohnstone
And in the case of a Biden win that is disputed as fraudulent, who can
foretell what may happen.

It is clear that leftists have been fighting for years to keep the
voting regulations as lax as they could so they could cheat.

Silly as usual. Ever hear of rhe Voting Rights Act? Who passed that?

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/89-1965/h87
Senate, a larger proportion of Republicans than Democrats.
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/89-1965/s78
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

Well done. But objective facts cannot crack Tony's rose-colored
ideological glasses. Mark

[Bud]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone
"There's some question that some of those Michigan people are anarchists
and not militia types. One expressed his loathing of Trump and had an
anarchist flag in his room."
Are you aware of the "national anarchists"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National-anarchism
They advocate a decentralized economic and political system which features
ethnically-pure villages defined by racial separatism. It is rightist
militias masquerading under the black flag of anarchist belief. After all
there is a a long history of such cross-overs.
http://www.politicalresearch.org/2008/01/28/rebranding-fascism-national-anarchists
I don't think we can equate a lone-wolf assassin in 1963 with a
coordinated conspiracy in 2020 nor the similar lone-wolf shooting of
Scalise in 2017. They are qualitatively very different.
And if the riots are organized by any particular group we await evidence
since the FBI have already dismissed such claims but we do have very silly
stories about Soros-instigators placing supplies of bricks at street
corners.
What is ominous is that similar militias will try to "monitor" polling stations and interfere with if not intimidate prospective voters and i lack confidence that the Republican Party has the ability or willingness to distance itself from them. So I would not be so sure that it will be a "one-day story."

Here in Philadelphia in 2008 the New Black Panthers had 300 of it`s
members fan out across the city`s polling places.
http://youtu.be/neGbKHyGuHU
Would you have have seen this as "ominous" and voiced concern about the
Democrats not condemning this activity?

Post by ajohnstone
And in the case of a Biden win that is disputed as fraudulent, who can
foretell what may happen.

It is clear that leftists have been fighting for years to keep the
voting regulations as lax as they could so they could cheat.

Silly as usual. Ever hear of rhe Voting Rights Act? Who passed that?

Ever hear of ID requirements to vote? Who opposed that?

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Bud

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone
"There's some question that some of those Michigan people are anarchists
and not militia types. One expressed his loathing of Trump and had an
anarchist flag in his room."
Are you aware of the "national anarchists"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National-anarchism
They advocate a decentralized economic and political system which features
ethnically-pure villages defined by racial separatism. It is rightist
militias masquerading under the black flag of anarchist belief. After all
there is a a long history of such cross-overs.
http://www.politicalresearch.org/2008/01/28/rebranding-fascism-national-anarchists
I don't think we can equate a lone-wolf assassin in 1963 with a
coordinated conspiracy in 2020 nor the similar lone-wolf shooting of
Scalise in 2017. They are qualitatively very different.
And if the riots are organized by any particular group we await evidence
since the FBI have already dismissed such claims but we do have very silly
stories about Soros-instigators placing supplies of bricks at street
corners.
What is ominous is that similar militias will try to "monitor" polling stations and interfere with if not intimidate prospective voters and i lack confidence that the Republican Party has the ability or willingness to distance itself from them. So I would not be so sure that it will be a "one-day story."

Here in Philadelphia in 2008 the New Black Panthers had 300 of it`s
members fan out across the city`s polling places.
http://youtu.be/neGbKHyGuHU
Would you have have seen this as "ominous" and voiced concern about the
Democrats not condemning this activity?

Post by ajohnstone
And in the case of a Biden win that is disputed as fraudulent, who can
foretell what may happen.

It is clear that leftists have been fighting for years to keep the
voting regulations as lax as they could so they could cheat.

Silly as usual. Ever hear of rhe Voting Rights Act? Who passed that?

Well, did you?

Post by Bud
Ever hear of ID requirements to vote? Who opposed that?

Maybe people who couldn't afford it.
I no longer drive so I no longer have a driver's lciense. I can't buy a
US ID for $100.

[John Corbett]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Bud

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone
"There's some question that some of those Michigan people are anarchists
and not militia types. One expressed his loathing of Trump and had an
anarchist flag in his room."
Are you aware of the "national anarchists"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National-anarchism
They advocate a decentralized economic and political system which features
ethnically-pure villages defined by racial separatism. It is rightist
militias masquerading under the black flag of anarchist belief. After all
there is a a long history of such cross-overs.
http://www.politicalresearch.org/2008/01/28/rebranding-fascism-national-anarchists
I don't think we can equate a lone-wolf assassin in 1963 with a
coordinated conspiracy in 2020 nor the similar lone-wolf shooting of
Scalise in 2017. They are qualitatively very different.
And if the riots are organized by any particular group we await evidence
since the FBI have already dismissed such claims but we do have very silly
stories about Soros-instigators placing supplies of bricks at street
corners.
What is ominous is that similar militias will try to "monitor" polling stations and interfere with if not intimidate prospective voters and i lack confidence that the Republican Party has the ability or willingness to distance itself from them. So I would not be so sure that it will be a "one-day story."

Here in Philadelphia in 2008 the New Black Panthers had 300 of it`s
members fan out across the city`s polling places.
http://youtu.be/neGbKHyGuHU
Would you have have seen this as "ominous" and voiced concern about the
Democrats not condemning this activity?

Post by ajohnstone
And in the case of a Biden win that is disputed as fraudulent, who can
foretell what may happen.

It is clear that leftists have been fighting for years to keep the
voting regulations as lax as they could so they could cheat.

Silly as usual. Ever hear of rhe Voting Rights Act? Who passed that?

Well, did you?

Post by Bud
Ever hear of ID requirements to vote? Who opposed that?

Maybe people who couldn't afford it.
I no longer drive so I no longer have a driver's lciense. I can't buy a
US ID for $100.

I'm not familiar with Massachusetts law but I'm pretty sure charging
someone $100 for an ID would be a violation of the Voting Rights Act if it
was a requirement for voting. It would amount to a poll tax which the VRA
outlawed. In Ohio, anyone who doesn't have a driver's license can apply
for a state ID card free of charge.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by John Corbett

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Bud

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone
"There's some question that some of those Michigan people are anarchists
and not militia types. One expressed his loathing of Trump and had an
anarchist flag in his room."
Are you aware of the "national anarchists"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National-anarchism
They advocate a decentralized economic and political system which features
ethnically-pure villages defined by racial separatism. It is rightist
militias masquerading under the black flag of anarchist belief. After all
there is a a long history of such cross-overs.
http://www.politicalresearch.org/2008/01/28/rebranding-fascism-national-anarchists
I don't think we can equate a lone-wolf assassin in 1963 with a
coordinated conspiracy in 2020 nor the similar lone-wolf shooting of
Scalise in 2017. They are qualitatively very different.
And if the riots are organized by any particular group we await evidence
since the FBI have already dismissed such claims but we do have very silly
stories about Soros-instigators placing supplies of bricks at street
corners.
What is ominous is that similar militias will try to "monitor" polling stations and interfere with if not intimidate prospective voters and i lack confidence that the Republican Party has the ability or willingness to distance itself from them. So I would not be so sure that it will be a "one-day story."

Here in Philadelphia in 2008 the New Black Panthers had 300 of it`s
members fan out across the city`s polling places.
http://youtu.be/neGbKHyGuHU
Would you have have seen this as "ominous" and voiced concern about the
Democrats not condemning this activity?

Post by ajohnstone
And in the case of a Biden win that is disputed as fraudulent, who can
foretell what may happen.

It is clear that leftists have been fighting for years to keep the
voting regulations as lax as they could so they could cheat.

Silly as usual. Ever hear of rhe Voting Rights Act? Who passed that?

Well, did you?

Post by Bud
Ever hear of ID requirements to vote? Who opposed that?

Maybe people who couldn't afford it.
I no longer drive so I no longer have a driver's lciense. I can't buy a
US ID for $100.

I'm not familiar with Massachusetts law but I'm pretty sure charging
someone $100 for an ID would be a violation of the Voting Rights Act if it
was a requirement for voting. It would amount to a poll tax which the VRA
outlawed. In Ohio, anyone who doesn't have a driver's license can apply
for a state ID card free of charge.

Silly. You know NOTHINBG all the time.. Why can't you Google?
A regular driver's license costs $50 amd the ID that lets you fly on
planes costs $100.

[John Corbett]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by John Corbett

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Bud

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone
"There's some question that some of those Michigan people are anarchists
and not militia types. One expressed his loathing of Trump and had an
anarchist flag in his room."
Are you aware of the "national anarchists"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National-anarchism
They advocate a decentralized economic and political system which features
ethnically-pure villages defined by racial separatism. It is rightist
militias masquerading under the black flag of anarchist belief. After all
there is a a long history of such cross-overs.
http://www.politicalresearch.org/2008/01/28/rebranding-fascism-national-anarchists
I don't think we can equate a lone-wolf assassin in 1963 with a
coordinated conspiracy in 2020 nor the similar lone-wolf shooting of
Scalise in 2017. They are qualitatively very different.
And if the riots are organized by any particular group we await evidence
since the FBI have already dismissed such claims but we do have very silly
stories about Soros-instigators placing supplies of bricks at street
corners.
What is ominous is that similar militias will try to "monitor" polling stations and interfere with if not intimidate prospective voters and i lack confidence that the Republican Party has the ability or willingness to distance itself from them. So I would not be so sure that it will be a "one-day story."

Here in Philadelphia in 2008 the New Black Panthers had 300 of it`s
members fan out across the city`s polling places.
http://youtu.be/neGbKHyGuHU
Would you have have seen this as "ominous" and voiced concern about the
Democrats not condemning this activity?

Post by ajohnstone
And in the case of a Biden win that is disputed as fraudulent, who can
foretell what may happen.

It is clear that leftists have been fighting for years to keep the
voting regulations as lax as they could so they could cheat.

Silly as usual. Ever hear of rhe Voting Rights Act? Who passed that?

Well, did you?

Post by Bud
Ever hear of ID requirements to vote? Who opposed that?

Maybe people who couldn't afford it.
I no longer drive so I no longer have a driver's lciense. I can't buy a
US ID for $100.

I'm not familiar with Massachusetts law but I'm pretty sure charging
someone $100 for an ID would be a violation of the Voting Rights Act if it
was a requirement for voting. It would amount to a poll tax which the VRA
outlawed. In Ohio, anyone who doesn't have a driver's license can apply
for a state ID card free of charge.

Silly. You know NOTHINBG all the time.. Why can't you Google?
A regular driver's license costs $50 amd the ID that lets you fly on
planes costs $100.

Those are different from a voter ID card. I was incorrect earlier when I
said they were free. Ohio charges $8.50 for such a card. See that, Tony. I
admitted I was wrong and I didn't drop dead as a result. You should try it
some time. ID cards are acceptable forms of ID for people who don't have a
driver's license. The newer cards and driver's license have a magnetic
strip which you can swipe at the grocery story card reader when you buy
alcoholic beverages.

Laws very by state. Ohio is very generous in what is acceptable as a voter
ID and it includes many items which most people get routinely such as a
utility bill as long as it has the voter's current address on it. A photo
is not a requirement.

https://www.ohiosos.gov/elections/voters/id-requirements/

A friend of mine is a poll worker and a woman came who didn't have any of
the typical forms of ID. He went down the list of acceptable items,
driver's license, state ID card, utility bill, etc. She had none. Finally
he asked if she had a traffic ticket. BINGO!!! She had that in her purse.
She got to vote. Don't ask me why someone with a traffic ticket didn't
have a driver's license. I guess she left it at home.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by John Corbett

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by John Corbett

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Bud

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone
"There's some question that some of those Michigan people are anarchists
and not militia types. One expressed his loathing of Trump and had an
anarchist flag in his room."
Are you aware of the "national anarchists"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National-anarchism
They advocate a decentralized economic and political system which features
ethnically-pure villages defined by racial separatism. It is rightist
militias masquerading under the black flag of anarchist belief. After all
there is a a long history of such cross-overs.
http://www.politicalresearch.org/2008/01/28/rebranding-fascism-national-anarchists
I don't think we can equate a lone-wolf assassin in 1963 with a
coordinated conspiracy in 2020 nor the similar lone-wolf shooting of
Scalise in 2017. They are qualitatively very different.
And if the riots are organized by any particular group we await evidence
since the FBI have already dismissed such claims but we do have very silly
stories about Soros-instigators placing supplies of bricks at street
corners.
What is ominous is that similar militias will try to "monitor" polling stations and interfere with if not intimidate prospective voters and i lack confidence that the Republican Party has the ability or willingness to distance itself from them. So I would not be so sure that it will be a "one-day story."

Here in Philadelphia in 2008 the New Black Panthers had 300 of it`s
members fan out across the city`s polling places.
http://youtu.be/neGbKHyGuHU
Would you have have seen this as "ominous" and voiced concern about the
Democrats not condemning this activity?

Post by ajohnstone
And in the case of a Biden win that is disputed as fraudulent, who can
foretell what may happen.

It is clear that leftists have been fighting for years to keep the
voting regulations as lax as they could so they could cheat.

Silly as usual. Ever hear of rhe Voting Rights Act? Who passed that?

Well, did you?

Post by Bud
Ever hear of ID requirements to vote? Who opposed that?

Maybe people who couldn't afford it.
I no longer drive so I no longer have a driver's lciense. I can't buy a
US ID for $100.

I'm not familiar with Massachusetts law but I'm pretty sure charging
someone $100 for an ID would be a violation of the Voting Rights Act if it
was a requirement for voting. It would amount to a poll tax which the VRA
outlawed. In Ohio, anyone who doesn't have a driver's license can apply
for a state ID card free of charge.

Silly. You know NOTHINBG all the time.. Why can't you Google?
A regular driver's license costs $50 amd the ID that lets you fly on
planes costs $100.

Those are different from a voter ID card. I was incorrect earlier when I
said they were free. Ohio charges $8.50 for such a card. See that, Tony. I
admitted I was wrong and I didn't drop dead as a result. You should try it
some time. ID cards are acceptable forms of ID for people who don't have a
driver's license. The newer cards and driver's license have a magnetic
strip which you can swipe at the grocery story card reader when you buy
alcoholic beverages.
Laws very by state. Ohio is very generous in what is acceptable as a voter
ID and it includes many items which most people get routinely such as a
utility bill as long as it has the voter's current address on it. A photo
is not a requirement.
https://www.ohiosos.gov/elections/voters/id-requirements/
A friend of mine is a poll worker and a woman came who didn't have any of
the typical forms of ID. He went down the list of acceptable items,
driver's license, state ID card, utility bill, etc. She had none. Finally
he asked if she had a traffic ticket. BINGO!!! She had that in her purse.
She got to vote. Don't ask me why someone with a traffic ticket didn't
have a driver's license. I guess she left it at home.

In person voting. Read the rules. You may have to prove eho you are with
a photo ID.

[John Corbett]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by John Corbett

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by John Corbett

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Bud

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone
"There's some question that some of those Michigan people are anarchists
and not militia types. One expressed his loathing of Trump and had an
anarchist flag in his room."
Are you aware of the "national anarchists"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National-anarchism
They advocate a decentralized economic and political system which features
ethnically-pure villages defined by racial separatism. It is rightist
militias masquerading under the black flag of anarchist belief. After all
there is a a long history of such cross-overs.
http://www.politicalresearch.org/2008/01/28/rebranding-fascism-national-anarchists
I don't think we can equate a lone-wolf assassin in 1963 with a
coordinated conspiracy in 2020 nor the similar lone-wolf shooting of
Scalise in 2017. They are qualitatively very different.
And if the riots are organized by any particular group we await evidence
since the FBI have already dismissed such claims but we do have very silly
stories about Soros-instigators placing supplies of bricks at street
corners.
What is ominous is that similar militias will try to "monitor" polling stations and interfere with if not intimidate prospective voters and i lack confidence that the Republican Party has the ability or willingness to distance itself from them. So I would not be so sure that it will be a "one-day story."

Here in Philadelphia in 2008 the New Black Panthers had 300 of it`s
members fan out across the city`s polling places.
http://youtu.be/neGbKHyGuHU
Would you have have seen this as "ominous" and voiced concern about the
Democrats not condemning this activity?

Post by ajohnstone
And in the case of a Biden win that is disputed as fraudulent, who can
foretell what may happen.

It is clear that leftists have been fighting for years to keep the
voting regulations as lax as they could so they could cheat.

Silly as usual. Ever hear of rhe Voting Rights Act? Who passed that?

Well, did you?

Post by Bud
Ever hear of ID requirements to vote? Who opposed that?

Maybe people who couldn't afford it.
I no longer drive so I no longer have a driver's lciense. I can't buy a
US ID for $100.

I'm not familiar with Massachusetts law but I'm pretty sure charging
someone $100 for an ID would be a violation of the Voting Rights Act if it
was a requirement for voting. It would amount to a poll tax which the VRA
outlawed. In Ohio, anyone who doesn't have a driver's license can apply
for a state ID card free of charge.

Silly. You know NOTHINBG all the time.. Why can't you Google?
A regular driver's license costs $50 amd the ID that lets you fly on
planes costs $100.

Those are different from a voter ID card. I was incorrect earlier when I
said they were free. Ohio charges $8.50 for such a card. See that, Tony. I
admitted I was wrong and I didn't drop dead as a result. You should try it
some time. ID cards are acceptable forms of ID for people who don't have a
driver's license. The newer cards and driver's license have a magnetic
strip which you can swipe at the grocery story card reader when you buy
alcoholic beverages.
Laws very by state. Ohio is very generous in what is acceptable as a voter
ID and it includes many items which most people get routinely such as a
utility bill as long as it has the voter's current address on it. A photo
is not a requirement.
https://www.ohiosos.gov/elections/voters/id-requirements/
A friend of mine is a poll worker and a woman came who didn't have any of
the typical forms of ID. He went down the list of acceptable items,
driver's license, state ID card, utility bill, etc. She had none. Finally
he asked if she had a traffic ticket. BINGO!!! She had that in her purse.
She got to vote. Don't ask me why someone with a traffic ticket didn't
have a driver's license. I guess she left it at home.

In person voting. Read the rules. You may have to prove eho you are with
a photo ID.

Not in Ohio. Any valid document that contains the voters name and address
will suffice. Even a utility bill. A passport is not acceptable because it
doesn't contain an address.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Steven M. Galbraith

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54470427
The FBI has thwarted a plot by the Wolverine Watchmen to abduct and
overthrow Michigan's Governor Gretchen Whitmer and who planned to hold a
"treason trial" for her.
They attempted to identify the homes of law enforcement officers to
???target them, made threats of violence intended to instigate a
civil war???. They also planned and trained for an operation to
attack the Michigan capitol building and to kidnap government officials,
including the governor.
Of course, this could all be FBI fake news but has anybody got details
about any Antifa conspiracies that even come close to this?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/08/six-people-charged-plot-kidnap-michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer

Any group - whatever their ideology - that rejects the peaceful political

No, thats silly sophism. And call them unpatriotic.

You then need ro include the Minutemen. And call them unpatriotic.

Post by Steven M. Galbraith
process that we have in favor of violence to address their grievances are
a threat.
There's some question that some of those Michigan people are anarchists
and not militia types. One expressed his loathing of Trump and had an
anarchist flag in his room. Although the radical right and radical left
tend to come together at some point when it comes to their view of the US
government. Both consider it illegitimate - whether Trump is president or
Biden or Obama.
As to antifa: they've been organizing violent protests in Portland for the
past six months. And in other cities.

[Steven M. Galbraith]

How about we just condemn any group - right or left or wherever - who
espouse and advocate and use violence over peaceful actions?

The US is a representative democracy. We have free speech, freedom of
association, freedom to petition government, freedom to advocate whatever
ideas you want.

If you refuse to use this peaceful process and instead resort to violence
then you will not be allowed to do so, you will be arrested with all of
the protections provided by the constitution guaranteed. Period.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Steven M. Galbraith
How about we just condemn any group - right or left or wherever - who
espouse and advocate and use violence over peaceful actions?

Yes, of course. Just say there are bad people on both sides. Most good
people on both siddee when you are talking aboout the Nazis.

Post by Steven M. Galbraith
The US is a representative democracy. We have free speech, freedom of
association, freedom to petition government, freedom to advocate whatever
ideas you want.
If you refuse to use this peaceful process and instead resort to violence
then you will not be allowed to do so, you will be arrested with all of
the protections provided by the constitution guaranteed. Period.

[Steven M. Galbraith]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Steven M. Galbraith
How about we just condemn any group - right or left or wherever - who
espouse and advocate and use violence over peaceful actions?

Yes, of course. Just say there are bad people on both sides. Most good
people on both siddee when you are talking aboout the Nazis.

Post by Steven M. Galbraith
The US is a representative democracy. We have free speech, freedom of
association, freedom to petition government, freedom to advocate whatever
ideas you want.
If you refuse to use this peaceful process and instead resort to violence
then you will not be allowed to do so, you will be arrested with all of
the protections provided by the constitution guaranteed. Period.

Your response is to some comment made by someone somewhere but I can't
find it. Can you locate the original post you were responding to?

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Steven M. Galbraith

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Steven M. Galbraith
How about we just condemn any group - right or left or wherever - who
espouse and advocate and use violence over peaceful actions?

Yes, of course. Just say there are bad people on both sides. Most good
people on both siddee when you are talking aboout the Nazis.

Post by Steven M. Galbraith
The US is a representative democracy. We have free speech, freedom of
association, freedom to petition government, freedom to advocate whatever
ideas you want.
If you refuse to use this peaceful process and instead resort to violence
then you will not be allowed to do so, you will be arrested with all of
the protections provided by the constitution guaranteed. Period.

Your response is to some comment made by someone somewhere but I can't
find it. Can you locate the original post you were responding to?

I was playing a Trump Trick do show how silly th argument was.

[John Corbett]

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54470427
The FBI has thwarted a plot by the Wolverine Watchmen to abduct and
overthrow Michigan's Governor Gretchen Whitmer and who planned to hold a
"treason trial" for her.
They attempted to identify the homes of law enforcement officers to
“target them, made threats of violence intended to instigate a
civil war”. They also planned and trained for an operation to
attack the Michigan capitol building and to kidnap government officials,
including the governor.
Of course, this could all be FBI fake news but has anybody got details
about any Antifa conspiracies that even come close to this?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/08/six-people-charged-plot-kidnap-michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer

There are nutcases across the political spectrum. Of course the mainstream
media only gives attention to the right wing nuts. Do you think if this
was Antifa plotting against Mitch McConnell it would have gotten more than
a passing mention? That question almost answers itself. This plot against
Whitmer has already received more media attention than the actual shooting
of Congressman Steve Scalise. That was a one day story.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by John Corbett

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54470427
The FBI has thwarted a plot by the Wolverine Watchmen to abduct and
overthrow Michigan's Governor Gretchen Whitmer and who planned to hold a
"treason trial" for her.
They attempted to identify the homes of law enforcement officers to
???target them, made threats of violence intended to instigate a
civil war???. They also planned and trained for an operation to
attack the Michigan capitol building and to kidnap government officials,
including the governor.
Of course, this could all be FBI fake news but has anybody got details
about any Antifa conspiracies that even come close to this?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/08/six-people-charged-plot-kidnap-michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer

There are nutcases across the political spectrum. Of course the mainstream
media only gives attention to the right wing nuts. Do you think if this

False comparison. Show me a similar plot by ANTIFA. or RAINBOW party. Or
gay pride. You want to say that YOU are innocent becase everyone else as
guilty.

Post by John Corbett
was Antifa plotting against Mitch McConnell it would have gotten more than
a passing mention? That question almost answers itself. This plot against
Whitmer has already received more media attention than the actual shooting
of Congressman Steve Scalise. That was a one day story.

[John Corbett]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by John Corbett

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54470427
The FBI has thwarted a plot by the Wolverine Watchmen to abduct and
overthrow Michigan's Governor Gretchen Whitmer and who planned to hold a
"treason trial" for her.
They attempted to identify the homes of law enforcement officers to
???target them, made threats of violence intended to instigate a
civil war???. They also planned and trained for an operation to
attack the Michigan capitol building and to kidnap government officials,
including the governor.
Of course, this could all be FBI fake news but has anybody got details
about any Antifa conspiracies that even come close to this?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/08/six-people-charged-plot-kidnap-michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer

There are nutcases across the political spectrum. Of course the mainstream
media only gives attention to the right wing nuts. Do you think if this

False comparison. Show me a similar plot by ANTIFA. or RAINBOW party. Or
gay pride.

Nutcases are not limited to plots to kidnap public officials. They can
show their nuttiness in many ways. Like burning and looting cities or
shooting congressman who are playing a softball game.

Post by Anthony Marsh
You want to say that YOU are innocent becase everyone else as guilty.

Do you feel a compulsion to make at least one inane, illogical observation
in every post you make?

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by John Corbett

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by John Corbett

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54470427
The FBI has thwarted a plot by the Wolverine Watchmen to abduct and
overthrow Michigan's Governor Gretchen Whitmer and who planned to hold a
"treason trial" for her.
They attempted to identify the homes of law enforcement officers to
???target them, made threats of violence intended to instigate a
civil war???. They also planned and trained for an operation to
attack the Michigan capitol building and to kidnap government officials,
including the governor.
Of course, this could all be FBI fake news but has anybody got details
about any Antifa conspiracies that even come close to this?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/08/six-people-charged-plot-kidnap-michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer

There are nutcases across the political spectrum. Of course the mainstream
media only gives attention to the right wing nuts. Do you think if this

False comparison. Show me a similar plot by ANTIFA. or RAINBOW party. Or
gay pride.

Nutcases are not limited to plots to kidnap public officials. They can
show their nuttiness in many ways. Like burning and looting cities or
shooting congressman who are playing a softball game.

Of course. So why can't you show me any cases?
Why is it that you can never answer my questions?

Post by John Corbett

Post by Anthony Marsh
You want to say that YOU are innocent becase everyone else as guilty.

Do you feel a compulsion to make at least one inane, illogical observation
in every post you make?

i can count on YOU making it possible evey time.

[Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)]

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54470427
The FBI has thwarted a plot by the Wolverine Watchmen to abduct and
overthrow Michigan's Governor Gretchen Whitmer and who planned to hold a
"treason trial" for her.
They attempted to identify the homes of law enforcement officers to
“target them, made threats of violence intended to instigate a
civil war”. They also planned and trained for an operation to
attack the Michigan capitol building and to kidnap government officials,
including the governor.
Of course, this could all be FBI fake news but has anybody got details
about any Antifa conspiracies that even come close to this?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/08/six-people-charged-plot-kidnap-michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer

Not Antifa, but I'm pretty sure a leftist in 1963 had his sights set on a
bigger target, and the FBI didn't know about, and couldn't stop it because
it wasn't a conspiracy.

But if it's a Antifa conspiracy you want, who's distributing all the
bottles of ice and all those bricks at those "mostly peaceful protests"
that get thrown at law enforcement?

Who's been trying to burn down Federal buildings? Are all those just
spontaneous uprisings? Every night, in the same location? Nobody's
conspiring with anyone else, right?

Hank

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54470427
The FBI has thwarted a plot by the Wolverine Watchmen to abduct and
overthrow Michigan's Governor Gretchen Whitmer and who planned to hold a
"treason trial" for her.
They attempted to identify the homes of law enforcement officers to
???target them, made threats of violence intended to instigate a
civil war???. They also planned and trained for an operation to
attack the Michigan capitol building and to kidnap government officials,
including the governor.
Of course, this could all be FBI fake news but has anybody got details
about any Antifa conspiracies that even come close to this?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/08/six-people-charged-plot-kidnap-michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer

Not Antifa, but I'm pretty sure a leftist in 1963 had his sights set on a
bigger target, and the FBI didn't know about, and couldn't stop it because
it wasn't a conspiracy.

Are you kidding?
The FBI was LOOKing for Oswald and couldn't Find him,
The Secret Service found me in 2 days.

Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
But if it's a Antifa conspiracy you want, who's distributing all the
bottles of ice and all those bricks at those "mostly peaceful protests"
that get thrown at law enforcement?

BOTTLES OF ICE? that sounds very dangerous. Are they glass bottle?
Freezing water in glass bootles can BREAK the bottles. Try it at home to
see what I mean.

Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Who's been trying to burn down Federal buildings? Are all those just

THAT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO DO.

Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
spontaneous uprisings? Every night, in the same location? Nobody's
conspiring with anyone else, right?

wHO HAS THE record for burning down buildings?

Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Hank

[BT George]

Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54470427
The FBI has thwarted a plot by the Wolverine Watchmen to abduct and
overthrow Michigan's Governor Gretchen Whitmer and who planned to hold a
"treason trial" for her.
They attempted to identify the homes of law enforcement officers to
“target them, made threats of violence intended to instigate a
civil war”. They also planned and trained for an operation to
attack the Michigan capitol building and to kidnap government officials,
including the governor.
Of course, this could all be FBI fake news but has anybody got details
about any Antifa conspiracies that even come close to this?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/08/six-people-charged-plot-kidnap-michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer

Not Antifa, but I'm pretty sure a leftist in 1963 had his sights set on a
bigger target, and the FBI didn't know about, and couldn't stop it because
it wasn't a conspiracy.
But if it's a Antifa conspiracy you want, who's distributing all the
bottles of ice and all those bricks at those "mostly peaceful protests"
that get thrown at law enforcement?
Who's been trying to burn down Federal buildings? Are all those just
spontaneous uprisings? Every night, in the same location? Nobody's
conspiring with anyone else, right?
Hank

And speaking of conspiracies, notice how the protests---or at least the
coverage thereof---has died down in the weeks before the election.
...Can't have leftists seem too out of control when there is a Biden
election at stake.

[John Corbett]

Post by BT George
And speaking of conspiracies, notice how the protests---or at least the
coverage thereof---has died down in the weeks before the election.
...Can't have leftists seem too out of control when there is a Biden
election at stake.

Didn't you mean a Harris election?

[Bud]

Post by BT George

Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54470427
The FBI has thwarted a plot by the Wolverine Watchmen to abduct and
overthrow Michigan's Governor Gretchen Whitmer and who planned to hold a
"treason trial" for her.
They attempted to identify the homes of law enforcement officers to
“target them, made threats of violence intended to instigate a
civil war”. They also planned and trained for an operation to
attack the Michigan capitol building and to kidnap government officials,
including the governor.
Of course, this could all be FBI fake news but has anybody got details
about any Antifa conspiracies that even come close to this?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/08/six-people-charged-plot-kidnap-michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer

Not Antifa, but I'm pretty sure a leftist in 1963 had his sights set on a
bigger target, and the FBI didn't know about, and couldn't stop it because
it wasn't a conspiracy.
But if it's a Antifa conspiracy you want, who's distributing all the
bottles of ice and all those bricks at those "mostly peaceful protests"
that get thrown at law enforcement?
Who's been trying to burn down Federal buildings? Are all those just
spontaneous uprisings? Every night, in the same location? Nobody's
conspiring with anyone else, right?
Hank

And speaking of conspiracies, notice how the protests---or at least the
coverage thereof---has died down in the weeks before the election.
...Can't have leftists seem too out of control when there is a Biden
election at stake.

Yes, every burned cop car helped Trump.

Let`s see the reaction to this...

https://6abc.com/3rd-degree-charge-dismissed-against-derek-chauvin/7242804/

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Bud

Post by BT George

Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54470427
The FBI has thwarted a plot by the Wolverine Watchmen to abduct and
overthrow Michigan's Governor Gretchen Whitmer and who planned to hold a
"treason trial" for her.
They attempted to identify the homes of law enforcement officers to
“target them, made threats of violence intended to instigate a
civil war”. They also planned and trained for an operation to
attack the Michigan capitol building and to kidnap government officials,
including the governor.
Of course, this could all be FBI fake news but has anybody got details
about any Antifa conspiracies that even come close to this?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/08/six-people-charged-plot-kidnap-michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer

Not Antifa, but I'm pretty sure a leftist in 1963 had his sights set on a
bigger target, and the FBI didn't know about, and couldn't stop it because
it wasn't a conspiracy.
But if it's a Antifa conspiracy you want, who's distributing all the
bottles of ice and all those bricks at those "mostly peaceful protests"
that get thrown at law enforcement?
Who's been trying to burn down Federal buildings? Are all those just
spontaneous uprisings? Every night, in the same location? Nobody's
conspiring with anyone else, right?
Hank

And speaking of conspiracies, notice how the protests---or at least the
coverage thereof---has died down in the weeks before the election.
...Can't have leftists seem too out of control when there is a Biden
election at stake.

Yes, every burned cop car helped Trump.
Let`s see the reaction to this...
https://6abc.com/3rd-degree-charge-dismissed-against-derek-chauvin/7242804/

Now some people are aying rhw Proud Boys attacks are actually coming
from Iran ro make Trump look bad.

[Bud]

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54470427
The FBI has thwarted a plot by the Wolverine Watchmen to abduct and
overthrow Michigan's Governor Gretchen Whitmer and who planned to hold a
"treason trial" for her.

Well, she did take an oath to uphold the law, but then decided to take the constitutional rights away from the people who lived in her state. Even when the Supreme Court ruled that she had acted unconstitutionally, she still vowed to do what she could to keep her unconstitutional mandates in place, using "alternative sources of authority".

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/10/02/michigan-supreme-court-strikes-down-gretchen-whitmers-emergency-powers/5863340002/

You questioned why we need the Second Amendment, this is why. If liberals are able to stack the Supreme Court as they are plotting to do, people like Whitmer will be able to strip the constitutional rights away from people on a whim. And then you`ll find out why the Second Amendment is so important, and why liberals are so intent on taking the guns from the people.

Post by ajohnstone
They attempted to identify the homes of law enforcement officers to
“target them, made threats of violence intended to instigate a
civil war”.

If there is a civil war, it will be because of the actions of politicians like Whitmer. Take way the rights of people at your peril. *One* angry guy like Timothy McVeigh did more than all of Antifa combined. The left creates guys like this when they overstep their powers and act like Nazis.

Post by ajohnstone
They also planned and trained for an operation to
attack the Michigan capitol building and to kidnap government officials,
including the governor.
Of course, this could all be FBI fake news but has anybody got details
about any Antifa conspiracies that even come close to this?

They are in their parents basements playing Grand Theft Auto. A group like
Wolverine Watchmen are worth a thousand of these punks. If it comes to fighting, it won`t be pretty. Kick the hornets nest, expect to be stung.

Here is a small sample...

Keep in mind that it isn`t the right getting in peoples faces. But also keep in mind, if it comes to a fight, who wins? The nazis and the commies fought in the streets of Berlin, and it was the right that was better at it. The left claims to be fighting Nazis, but the fact is they are doing the only things that could drive this country in that direction.

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/08/six-people-charged-plot-kidnap-michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54470427
The FBI has thwarted a plot by the Wolverine Watchmen to abduct and
overthrow Michigan's Governor Gretchen Whitmer and who planned to hold a
"treason trial" for her.

Well, she did take an oath to uphold the law, but then decided to take the constitutional rights away from the people who lived in her state. Even when the Supreme Court ruled that she had acted unconstitutionally, she still vowed to do what she could to keep her unconstitutional mandates in place, using "alternative sources of authority".
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/10/02/michigan-supreme-court-strikes-down-gretchen-whitmers-emergency-powers/5863340002/
You questioned why we need the Second Amendment, this is why. If liberals are able to stack the Supreme Court as they are plotting to do, people like Whitmer will be able to strip the constitutional rights away from people on a whim. And then you`ll find out why the Second Amendment is so important, and why liberals are so intent on taking the guns from the people.

Post by ajohnstone
They attempted to identify the homes of law enforcement officers to
???target them, made threats of violence intended to instigate a
civil war???.

If there is a civil war, it will be because of the actions of politicians like Whitmer. Take way the rights of people at your peril. *One* angry guy like Timothy McVeigh did more than all of Antifa combined. The left creates guys like this when they overstep their powers and act like Nazis.

Post by ajohnstone
They also planned and trained for an operation to
attack the Michigan capitol building and to kidnap government officials,
including the governor.
Of course, this could all be FBI fake news but has anybody got details
about any Antifa conspiracies that even come close to this?

They are in their parents basements playing Grand Theft Auto. A group
like Wolverine Watchmen are worth a thousand of these punks. If it comes
to fighting, it won`t be pretty. Kick the hornets nest, expect to be
stung.
Here is a small sample...
http://youtu.be/NHZG_3GyEpU
Keep in mind that it isn`t the right getting in peoples faces. But
also keep in mind, if it comes to a fight, who wins? The nazis and
the commies fought in the streets of Berlin, and it was the right
that was better at it. The left claims to be fighting Nazis, but the
fact is they are doing the only things that could drive this country
in that direction.

Silly comparison. YOU are talking about an international war. Stick to
domestic violence. Did you win the Civil War?

Post by Bud

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/08/six-people-charged-plot-kidnap-michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54470427
The FBI has thwarted a plot by the Wolverine Watchmen to abduct and
overthrow Michigan's Governor Gretchen Whitmer and who planned to hold a
"treason trial" for her.
They attempted to identify the homes of law enforcement officers to
???target them, made threats of violence intended to instigate a
civil war???. They also planned and trained for an operation to
attack the Michigan capitol building and to kidnap government officials,
including the governor.
Of course, this could all be FBI fake news but has anybody got details
about any Antifa conspiracies that even come close to this?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/08/six-people-charged-plot-kidnap-michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer

No, theere is much more than the FBI.
Why don;t you just call everything Fake News?
That way you never have to deal with reality.
Here, try ths>
Gravity, Fake News

[MR. X]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54470427
The FBI has thwarted a plot by the Wolverine Watchmen to abduct and
overthrow Michigan's Governor Gretchen Whitmer and who planned to hold a
"treason trial" for her.
They attempted to identify the homes of law enforcement officers to
???target them, made threats of violence intended to instigate a
civil war???. They also planned and trained for an operation to
attack the Michigan capitol building and to kidnap government officials,
including the governor.
Of course, this could all be FBI fake news but has anybody got details
about any Antifa conspiracies that even come close to this?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/08/six-people-charged-plot-kidnap-michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer

No, theere is much more than the FBI.
Why don;t you just call everything Fake News?
That way you never have to deal with reality.
Here, try ths>
Gravity, Fake News

Are you a fan of the FBI? You were never a fan of the FBI. You are a fan
of the CIA. I thought you hated the CIA.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by MR. X

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54470427
The FBI has thwarted a plot by the Wolverine Watchmen to abduct and
overthrow Michigan's Governor Gretchen Whitmer and who planned to hold a
"treason trial" for her.
They attempted to identify the homes of law enforcement officers to
???target them, made threats of violence intended to instigate a
civil war???. They also planned and trained for an operation to
attack the Michigan capitol building and to kidnap government officials,
including the governor.
Of course, this could all be FBI fake news but has anybody got details
about any Antifa conspiracies that even come close to this?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/08/six-people-charged-plot-kidnap-michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer

No, theere is much more than the FBI.
Why don;t you just call everything Fake News?
That way you never have to deal with reality.
Here, try ths>
Gravity, Fake News

Are you a fan of the FBI? You were never a fan of the FBI. You are a fan
of the CIA. I thought you hated the CIA.

You sre confused. My opinion of both shifts depending on whether they
behaving welll or badly.

[Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)]

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54470427
The FBI has thwarted a plot by the Wolverine Watchmen to abduct and
overthrow Michigan's Governor Gretchen Whitmer and who planned to hold a
"treason trial" for her.
They attempted to identify the homes of law enforcement officers to
“target them, made threats of violence intended to instigate a
civil war”. They also planned and trained for an operation to
attack the Michigan capitol building and to kidnap government officials,
including the governor.
Of course, this could all be FBI fake news but has anybody got details
about any Antifa conspiracies that even come close to this?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/08/six-people-charged-plot-kidnap-michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer

Didn't a leftist shoot a congressman in 2017 at a softball game?

Why, yes he did:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Congressional_baseball_shooting

And sInce there is no formal Antifa membership list, how would we know when
or if an Antifa member did anything similar?

Hank

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54470427
The FBI has thwarted a plot by the Wolverine Watchmen to abduct and
overthrow Michigan's Governor Gretchen Whitmer and who planned to hold a
"treason trial" for her.
They attempted to identify the homes of law enforcement officers to
???target them, made threats of violence intended to instigate a
civil war???. They also planned and trained for an operation to
attack the Michigan capitol building and to kidnap government officials,
including the governor.
Of course, this could all be FBI fake news but has anybody got details
about any Antifa conspiracies that even come close to this?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/08/six-people-charged-plot-kidnap-michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer

Didn't a leftist shoot a congressman in 2017 at a softball game?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Congressional_baseball_shooting
And sInce there is no formal Antifa membership list, how would we know
when or if an Antifa member did anything similar?

Member? There are no members.

Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Hank

[John Corbett]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54470427
The FBI has thwarted a plot by the Wolverine Watchmen to abduct and
overthrow Michigan's Governor Gretchen Whitmer and who planned to hold a
"treason trial" for her.
They attempted to identify the homes of law enforcement officers to
???target them, made threats of violence intended to instigate a
civil war???. They also planned and trained for an operation to
attack the Michigan capitol building and to kidnap government officials,
including the governor.
Of course, this could all be FBI fake news but has anybody got details
about any Antifa conspiracies that even come close to this?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/08/six-people-charged-plot-kidnap-michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer

Didn't a leftist shoot a congressman in 2017 at a softball game?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Congressional_baseball_shooting
And sInce there is no formal Antifa membership list, how would we know
when or if an Antifa member did anything similar?

Member? There are no members.

This is how Wikipedia described Antifa:

"A highly decentralized movement, antifa political activists are
anti-racists who engage in protest tactics, seeking to combat fascists and
racists such as neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other far-right
extremists.[12]This may involve digital activism,[13] harassment,[14]
physical violence[14] and property damage[15] against those whom they
identify as belonging to the far-right."

Now I acknowledge that Wiki is not the final authority on all things but
this particular description seems to be spot on. Aside from their lawless
tactics, Antifa tries to demonize anyone with a conservative viewpoint as
"fascists and racists such as neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other
far-right extremists". To them ad hominem attacks on their political
opponents are an acceptable substitute for reasoned political debate.

[Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54470427
The FBI has thwarted a plot by the Wolverine Watchmen to abduct and
overthrow Michigan's Governor Gretchen Whitmer and who planned to hold a
"treason trial" for her.
They attempted to identify the homes of law enforcement officers to
???target them, made threats of violence intended to instigate a
civil war???. They also planned and trained for an operation to
attack the Michigan capitol building and to kidnap government officials,
including the governor.
Of course, this could all be FBI fake news but has anybody got details
about any Antifa conspiracies that even come close to this?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/08/six-people-charged-plot-kidnap-michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer

Didn't a leftist shoot a congressman in 2017 at a softball game?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Congressional_baseball_shooting
And sInce there is no formal Antifa membership list, how would we know
when or if an Antifa member did anything similar?

Member? There are no members.

That's my point. There's no official membership list or anything similar,
but there is a group called Antifa, and there are people who identify as
Antifa, although we may not know their identities. So if they did
something, like assassinate a congressman, we wouldn't know it was done by
someone who identifies as Antifa.

Hank

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54470427
The FBI has thwarted a plot by the Wolverine Watchmen to abduct and
overthrow Michigan's Governor Gretchen Whitmer and who planned to hold a
"treason trial" for her.
They attempted to identify the homes of law enforcement officers to
???target them, made threats of violence intended to instigate a
civil war???. They also planned and trained for an operation to
attack the Michigan capitol building and to kidnap government officials,
including the governor.
Of course, this could all be FBI fake news but has anybody got details
about any Antifa conspiracies that even come close to this?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/08/six-people-charged-plot-kidnap-michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer

Didn't a leftist shoot a congressman in 2017 at a softball game?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Congressional_baseball_shooting
And sInce there is no formal Antifa membership list, how would we know
when or if an Antifa member did anything similar?

Member? There are no members.

That's my point. There's no official membership list or anything similar,
but there is a group called Antifa, and there are people who identify as
Antifa, although we may not know their identities. So if they did
something, like assassinate a congressman, we wouldn't know it was done by
someone who identifies as Antifa.

No, silly.

Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Hank

[Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)]

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54470427
The FBI has thwarted a plot by the Wolverine Watchmen to abduct and
overthrow Michigan's Governor Gretchen Whitmer and who planned to hold a
"treason trial" for her.
They attempted to identify the homes of law enforcement officers to
“target them, made threats of violence intended to instigate a
civil war”. They also planned and trained for an operation to
attack the Michigan capitol building and to kidnap government officials,
including the governor.
Of course, this could all be FBI fake news but has anybody got details
about any Antifa conspiracies that even come close to this?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/08/six-people-charged-plot-kidnap-michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer

The two groups could both satisfy the question. Your question is a loaded
one in that it presumes only one group is the threat.

[Bud]

Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54470427
The FBI has thwarted a plot by the Wolverine Watchmen to abduct and
overthrow Michigan's Governor Gretchen Whitmer and who planned to hold a
"treason trial" for her.
They attempted to identify the homes of law enforcement officers to
“target them, made threats of violence intended to instigate a
civil war”. They also planned and trained for an operation to
attack the Michigan capitol building and to kidnap government officials,
including the governor.
Of course, this could all be FBI fake news but has anybody got details
about any Antifa conspiracies that even come close to this?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/08/six-people-charged-plot-kidnap-michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer

The two groups could both satisfy the question. Your question is a loaded
one in that it presumes only one group is the threat.

He doesn`t even think Antifa is a group.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)

Post by ajohnstone
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54470427
The FBI has thwarted a plot by the Wolverine Watchmen to abduct and
overthrow Michigan's Governor Gretchen Whitmer and who planned to hold a
"treason trial" for her.
They attempted to identify the homes of law enforcement officers to
???target them, made threats of violence intended to instigate a
civil war???. They also planned and trained for an operation to
attack the Michigan capitol building and to kidnap government officials,
including the governor.
Of course, this could all be FBI fake news but has anybody got details
about any Antifa conspiracies that even come close to this?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/08/six-people-charged-plot-kidnap-michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer

The two groups could both satisfy the question. Your question is a loaded
one in that it presumes only one group is the threat.

I have never said that only one group is a threat.There may be hundreds
of groups rhat are threats. Are they old enough to remember the Weather
undergound?