WIM DANKBAAR - JUDYTH BAKER HOAX - THE PROOF

[Dr. Truth]

To all legitimate JFK researchers and other interested persons:

I promised myself and others that I would not make any more public comments
about anything to do with the JFK assassination and I plan to do that but I
do feel that I need to make one more comment before I get back to the
business at hand and that is to continue our private investigation on James
Files, Tosh Plumlee and Chauncey Holt and to publish ONLY the truth to the
public as is my right as per my assertion of my legal rights to reclaim my
property after a contract breach by Wim Dankbaar.

I am sick and tired of hearing about Judyth Baker for she is simply not
telling the truth and every piece of credible research and investigation
that I have seen, and investigation and research that I have personaly done
myself, all indicates she is bogus. Yet, after being told endlessly and
presented with fact after fact that Baker is bogus, we still see Wim
Dankbaar continuing to perpetrate the Baker hoax as he has attempted to do
since he first started trying to convince me she was real.

Forget the fact that Dankbaar has breached his agreement with me, slandered
and libeled my name, lied to me and my family and caused us irreparable
harm, committed both civil tort and criminal offenses against me, converted
my property, conspired with other persons to convert my property, and lied
to 21 other decent fine Americans also causing them irreparable damages,
cast all of that aside for I have lawyers that handle thieves and liars like
him and his store bought friends.

What is important is the truth and that's all you've ever gotten from me and
all you will ever get.

The following information was received by me in the last 24 hours. I am not
at liberty to tell you who sent this to me but I have turned this info in
its original signed form over to my attorney as further proof of the
continued lies told about me by Dankbaar and now by one of his partners in
crime, Judyth Baker. The document speaks for itself and I can assure you,
it came from a very credible JFK researcher who has worked for years to get
to the truth about the murder of JFK, a very well respected person in the
JFK Research community. Let the documents below speak for themselves for
within these words is the truth about Judyth Baker. Judge for yourself:

______________________________________________________________

EMAIL page 1:

Robert Baker told me on the phone that he sent her a box(s?) of her stuff
that evidently contained many items from their married years together. Like
every little scrap of paper. His theory, which makes sense, is that she has
patched together her story from this material. But, he does NOT wish to get
into this with her any further -- as you can imagine.

For example, she showed me pages of love letters with the corners torn off
where the Dear " _ _ _" would be. She claimed they were letters to L-E-E but
I suspect they were letters to her husband B-O-B (same spacing). And why
would she have the letters she supposedly sent or gave to Lee Oswald? Didn't
they see each other in person? Did he give them back to her? What bull. Her
husband traveled and she wrote to him.

Anyway, it doesn't matter because she will make something up to explain it
all away and I don't have the time for her. It is absolutely amazing to me
that anyone believes her.

By the way, it wasn't Debra Conway that investigated her for 60 Minutes and
convinced
them she is bogus. A very, very smart woman attorney did that and is proud
of it. Don Hewett and co. had no idea how easy it was to put together a JFK
assassination story from books and the internet -- and was SO impressed with
Judyth's story. Give me a break.

EMAIL page 2:

(Believe me, she was totally and completely
checked out.)

And I think you saw a copy of one of the letters with the corner torn off,
didn't you? Another question: She says she threw away things and never
talked about her experiences with Oswald, but she kept these letters? What
would Bob say if he found them?? Oops.

But seriously, please accept that you will never have the last word with
Judyth. She will never stop. She has a fan club now and loves all this
attention. She adores being the victim and causing all this controversy.
Anyway, that's my 2¢.
_________________________________________________________________

Anyone who can clearly understand the English language should easily be able
to ascertain the truth stated in these emails above.

If you need any other proof, please understand that I am from New Orleans
and I know the Oschner family, particularly Dr. John Oschner, son of Alton
Oschner who is now in his late 70s or early 80s and is retired, one of the
most respected citizens and doctors in the city, if not the world. I have
personally talked to Dr. Oschner two times about Judyth Vary Baker. Dr.
Oschner has no reason to lie and let me assure you it is common knowledge in
New Orleans about his father's and his activities throughout the years for
it is cocktail party talk in uptown New Orleans and you can take that to the
bank. Dr. John Oschner was heavily involved in all experiments involving
his father's cancer research throughout the years, covert and otherwise, and
is still as sharp as a tack even in his golden years. Dr. John Oschner knew
every single cancer researcher involved with his father and their
experiments through the years, many of them he hired, most of which HE
SUPERVISED. What is critical here is that Dr. John Oschner had hands on
daily experience with everything that went on in his father's medical
research.

Dr. John Oschner does not know a Judyth Vary Baker nor has he never heard of
her. He checked not only the Oschner files and records archives, but he
also contacted the Reilly Coffee Company but to no avail. In my last
communication with Dr. Oschner, over a year ago, he asked me to get her
social security number and that this might be helpful in finding out if
Baker was ever a patient at their clinic. I haven't felt it was necessary
to bother this gentleman any further. I'm sure he has more important things
to do. I do.

Take it from there. At least you know the truth.

Over and out.

Bob Vernon
aka Dr. Truth

[John McAdams]

Post by Dr. Truth
Robert Baker told me on the phone that he sent her a box(s?) of her stuff
that evidently contained many items from their married years together. Like
every little scrap of paper. His theory, which makes sense, is that she has
patched together her story from this material. But, he does NOT wish to get
into this with her any further -- as you can imagine.

This most certainly makes sense, largely because of Judyth's "protests
too much" denials.

Quoting Judyth:

<Quote on>

We’ve been accumulating NEW AND SUPPORTING evidence for a year and a
half. That’s because people are being asked about me. They were not
asked before. And others are finding evidence nobody knew to hunt for
before.

But long before that – for three and a half decades, in fact – I have
never let the evidence be out of my possession, and it has always been
at my side whenever I entered or left any country (as an
anthropologist – B.S. degree in anthropology, with additional graduate
hours and lots of field work – and as the wife of a
geologist-mathematician, I have lived out of country and also traveled
extensively ) .

[ . . . ]

5) I HAVE FULL DOCUMENTATION FOR ALL MY ASSOCIATIONS WITH LEE HARVEY
OSWALD, INCLUDING SOME PERSONAL ITEMS AND HIS HANDWRITING.

6) For thirty-seven years, carried THE EVIDENCE everywhere. Even to
Norway and back, by plane. Even to Mexico, lived an entire summer
there.

I carried the evidence in my suitcase, never out of my sight at any
time, when moving. THAT is the kind of evidence it is. There was no
rummaging through attics for it.[emphasis in original] (E-mail to
twenty people, dated November 11, 2000.)

<Quote off>

Just as she loudly protests that Roscoe White was never part of her
story -- although he was -- it appears that she is loudly protesting
that she always kept this stuff and treasured it.

Post by Dr. Truth
For example, she showed me pages of love letters with the corners torn off
where the Dear " _ _ _" would be. She claimed they were letters to L-E-E but
I suspect they were letters to her husband B-O-B (same spacing). And why
would she have the letters she supposedly sent or gave to Lee Oswald? Didn't
they see each other in person? Did he give them back to her? What bull. Her
husband traveled and she wrote to him.

Good point.

.John
--
The Kennedy Assassination Home Page
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[Martin Shackelford]

A lot of the guff you guys post "certainly makes sense," because
misinformation supports misinformation--as in this case.

1) Robert didn't send the box, Rose did.

2) He thought it contained old love letters to HIM because it DID. The
material to which Debra refers in her e-mail was already with Judyth--she
had it in her suitcase. You guys need to get a clue.

Martin

Post by John McAdams

Post by Dr. Truth
Robert Baker told me on the phone that he sent her a box(s?) of her stuff
that evidently contained many items from their married years together. Like
every little scrap of paper. His theory, which makes sense, is that she has
patched together her story from this material. But, he does NOT wish to get
into this with her any further -- as you can imagine.

This most certainly makes sense, largely because of Judyth's "protests
too much" denials.
<Quote on>
We’ve been accumulating NEW AND SUPPORTING evidence for a year and a
half. That’s because people are being asked about me. They were not
asked before. And others are finding evidence nobody knew to hunt for
before.
But long before that – for three and a half decades, in fact – I have
never let the evidence be out of my possession, and it has always been
at my side whenever I entered or left any country (as an
anthropologist – B.S. degree in anthropology, with additional graduate
hours and lots of field work – and as the wife of a
geologist-mathematician, I have lived out of country and also traveled
extensively ) .
[ . . . ]
5) I HAVE FULL DOCUMENTATION FOR ALL MY ASSOCIATIONS WITH LEE HARVEY
OSWALD, INCLUDING SOME PERSONAL ITEMS AND HIS HANDWRITING.
6) For thirty-seven years, carried THE EVIDENCE everywhere. Even to
Norway and back, by plane. Even to Mexico, lived an entire summer
there.
I carried the evidence in my suitcase, never out of my sight at any
time, when moving. THAT is the kind of evidence it is. There was no
rummaging through attics for it.[emphasis in original] (E-mail to
twenty people, dated November 11, 2000.)
<Quote off>
Just as she loudly protests that Roscoe White was never part of her
story -- although he was -- it appears that she is loudly protesting
that she always kept this stuff and treasured it.

Post by Dr. Truth
For example, she showed me pages of love letters with the corners torn off
where the Dear " _ _ _" would be. She claimed they were letters to L-E-E but
I suspect they were letters to her husband B-O-B (same spacing). And why
would she have the letters she supposedly sent or gave to Lee Oswald? Didn't
they see each other in person? Did he give them back to her? What bull. Her
husband traveled and she wrote to him.

Good point.
.John
--
The Kennedy Assassination Home Page
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[John McAdams]

On 12 Aug 2004 00:09:09 -0400, Martin Shackelford

Post by Martin Shackelford
A lot of the guff you guys post "certainly makes sense," because
misinformation supports misinformation--as in this case.
1) Robert didn't send the box, Rose did.
2) He thought it contained old love letters to HIM because it DID. The
material to which Debra refers in her e-mail was already with Judyth--she
had it in her suitcase. You guys need to get a clue.

Does she have any letters, in her own handwriting, addressed to "Lee?"

Yes, I know you will evade that question. But I assure you people
will notice.

.John

The Kennedy Assassination Home Page
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[Martin Shackelford]

One that I've seen--as I recall, there's another, and a poem.

Martin

Post by John McAdams
On 12 Aug 2004 00:09:09 -0400, Martin Shackelford

Post by Martin Shackelford
A lot of the guff you guys post "certainly makes sense," because
misinformation supports misinformation--as in this case.
1) Robert didn't send the box, Rose did.
2) He thought it contained old love letters to HIM because it DID. The
material to which Debra refers in her e-mail was already with Judyth--she
had it in her suitcase. You guys need to get a clue.

Does she have any letters, in her own handwriting, addressed to "Lee?"
Yes, I know you will evade that question. But I assure you people
will notice.
.John
The Kennedy Assassination Home Page
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[John McAdams]

Post by Dr. Truth
By the way, it wasn't Debra Conway that investigated her for 60 Minutes and
convinced
them she is bogus. A very, very smart woman attorney did that and is proud
of it. Don Hewett and co. had no idea how easy it was to put together a JFK
assassination story from books and the internet -- and was SO impressed with
Judyth's story. Give me a break.

If anybody is willing to e-mail me the name of, and some contact
information on, this woman, I'd love to try and contact here.

Howard Liebengood, the aide to Frist who supposedly believes the
Judyth story, has been stonewalling me.

Presumably he's too embarrassed to comment on how he was suckered.

This woman may or may not be able to talk. If she was an attorney
hired by CBS *as* an attorney, she presumably won't. But if she was
just an amateur who got interested in the case and had contacts at
CBS, then maybe so.

.John
--
The Kennedy Assassination Home Page
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[Martin Shackelford]

We know who she is and who she did and didn't interview (detailed in
another post), John. If you rely on her as another of your hot sources,
good luck.

Martin

Post by John McAdams

Post by Dr. Truth
By the way, it wasn't Debra Conway that investigated her for 60 Minutes and
convinced
them she is bogus. A very, very smart woman attorney did that and is proud
of it. Don Hewett and co. had no idea how easy it was to put together a JFK
assassination story from books and the internet -- and was SO impressed with
Judyth's story. Give me a break.

If anybody is willing to e-mail me the name of, and some contact
information on, this woman, I'd love to try and contact here.
Howard Liebengood, the aide to Frist who supposedly believes the
Judyth story, has been stonewalling me.
Presumably he's too embarrassed to comment on how he was suckered.
This woman may or may not be able to talk. If she was an attorney
hired by CBS *as* an attorney, she presumably won't. But if she was
just an amateur who got interested in the case and had contacts at
CBS, then maybe so.
.John
--
The Kennedy Assassination Home Page
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[John McAdams]

On 12 Aug 2004 00:11:40 -0400, Martin Shackelford

Post by Martin Shackelford
We know who she is and who she did and didn't interview (detailed in
another post), John. If you rely on her as another of your hot sources,
good luck.

Gosh, it seems like *everybody* is an evil person out to get Judyth.
Debra is, David Lifton is, Robert Baker is, Rose Baker is, Louis
Girdler is, Matt Allison is, etc. etc.

And now the woman lawyer is.

It couldn't be that a lot of people have honestly been disillusioned
with Judyth when they figured out that her story didn't make sense,
could it?

Post by Martin Shackelford
Martin

Post by John McAdams

Post by Dr. Truth
By the way, it wasn't Debra Conway that investigated her for 60 Minutes and
convinced
them she is bogus. A very, very smart woman attorney did that and is proud
of it. Don Hewett and co. had no idea how easy it was to put together a JFK
assassination story from books and the internet -- and was SO impressed with
Judyth's story. Give me a break.

If anybody is willing to e-mail me the name of, and some contact
information on, this woman, I'd love to try and contact here.
Howard Liebengood, the aide to Frist who supposedly believes the
Judyth story, has been stonewalling me.
Presumably he's too embarrassed to comment on how he was suckered.
This woman may or may not be able to talk. If she was an attorney
hired by CBS *as* an attorney, she presumably won't. But if she was
just an amateur who got interested in the case and had contacts at
CBS, then maybe so.
.John
--
The Kennedy Assassination Home Page
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

The Kennedy Assassination Home Page
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[Pamela McElwain-Brown]

Post by John McAdams
On 12 Aug 2004 00:11:40 -0400, Martin Shackelford

Post by Martin Shackelford
We know who she is and who she did and didn't interview (detailed in
another post), John. If you rely on her as another of your hot sources,
good luck.

Gosh, it seems like *everybody* is an evil person out to get Judyth.
Debra is, David Lifton is, Robert Baker is, Rose Baker is, Louis
Girdler is, Matt Allison is, etc. etc.

Well, aren't most of these guys following the Manifesto?

Post by John McAdams
And now the woman lawyer is.
It couldn't be that a lot of people have honestly been disillusioned
with Judyth when they figured out that her story didn't make sense,
could it?

Or else she's been repeatedly sandbagged because they know she's
telling the truth and per the Manifesto, they don't want that to come
out?

Pamela :-)

Post by John McAdams

Post by Martin Shackelford
Martin

Post by John McAdams

Post by Dr. Truth
By the way, it wasn't Debra Conway that investigated her for 60 Minutes and
convinced
them she is bogus. A very, very smart woman attorney did that and is proud
of it. Don Hewett and co. had no idea how easy it was to put together a JFK
assassination story from books and the internet -- and was SO impressed with
Judyth's story. Give me a break.

If anybody is willing to e-mail me the name of, and some contact
information on, this woman, I'd love to try and contact here.
Howard Liebengood, the aide to Frist who supposedly believes the
Judyth story, has been stonewalling me.
Presumably he's too embarrassed to comment on how he was suckered.
This woman may or may not be able to talk. If she was an attorney
hired by CBS *as* an attorney, she presumably won't. But if she was
just an amateur who got interested in the case and had contacts at
CBS, then maybe so.
.John
--
The Kennedy Assassination Home Page
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

The Kennedy Assassination Home Page
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

For more information on the JFK Assassination Presidential Limousine SS-100-X visit www.jfk100x.com.
Also, for more detailed limocentric questions and requests, please join jfk100x on Yahoogroups.com.
For information about my life away from research, visit www.themagicflute.org

[Dixie M Dea]

Re: WIM DANKBAAR - JUDYTH BAKER HOAX - THE PROOF

Group: alt.assassination.jfk

On 12 Aug 2004 00:11:40 -0400, Martin Shackelford
<***@concentric.net> wrote:

We know who she is and who she did and didn't interview (detailed in
another post), John. If you rely on her as another of your hot sources,
good luck.

Thu, Aug 12, 2004, 4:22am (PDT+7) From:
***@marquette.edu (John=A0McAdams)

Gosh, it seems like *everybody* is an evil person out to get Judyth. Debra
is, David Lifton is, Robert Baker is, Rose Baker is, Louis Girdler is,
Matt Allison is, etc. etc. And now the woman lawyer is.

It couldn't be that a lot of people have honestly been disillusioned with
Judyth when they figured out that her story didn't make sense, could it?

John
--
The Kennedy Assassination Home Page
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
The Kennedy Assassination Home Page
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm



John

You sure got that right! Except that I never had to beeome disillusioned,
since I never believed anyway.

I did not even bother to reply to Martin's last comments to me, was it
last week or week before last? I suppose he figured if he intimidated me
and attempted to descredit me, I would go away, like an annoying fly.

To be accused (more or less) of being a mindless robot just following
along with the rest of the anti-Judyth bashers and with no knowledge of
what I was even talking about....well, actually I can turn that around to
he doesn't know what he is talking about.

Little does he know, that I actually do have experience in dealing with
dilussional and fantasy story tellers. I have listened to some pretty
preposterous stories and most of Judyth's claims fit right in there.
Actually, I am able to read, and can see for myself all the sudden add-ons
and then the denials and sanitzing that has occured. I also have copies of
some of her direct writings.

I have stated that I do not believe her and yet I have not been on a
specific campaign to de-bunk her. Yet, to not believe her, we are accused
of all sorts of ridiculous things that are just not true. LIke, for
example, I also do not believe the James Files claims and have so stated
on occasion. Yet, I don't recall anyone ever accusing me harrassing him,
or of the things I am accused of, in regard to not believing Judyth.

If there ever comes a day that I do believe her, after I see what
documentation she actually does have, then I will so state that too.

Dixie

[Martin Shackelford]

First you say you were open-minded toward Judyth. Now you admit that you
"never believed" her, and yet you continue to protest that you weren't
an immediate critic on the Della Rosa forum, despite the content of the
posts McAdams provided us all.

Martin

Post by Dixie M Dea
Re: WIM DANKBAAR - JUDYTH BAKER HOAX - THE PROOF
Group: alt.assassination.jfk
On 12 Aug 2004 00:11:40 -0400, Martin Shackelford
We know who she is and who she did and didn't interview (detailed in
another post), John. If you rely on her as another of your hot sources,
good luck.
Gosh, it seems like *everybody* is an evil person out to get Judyth. Debra
is, David Lifton is, Robert Baker is, Rose Baker is, Louis Girdler is,
Matt Allison is, etc. etc. And now the woman lawyer is.
It couldn't be that a lot of people have honestly been disillusioned with
Judyth when they figured out that her story didn't make sense, could it?
John

John

You sure got that right! Except that I never had to beeome disillusioned,
since I never believed anyway.

I did not even bother to reply to Martin's last comments to me, was it
last week or week before last? I suppose he figured if he intimidated me
and attempted to descredit me, I would go away, like an annoying fly.

To be accused (more or less) of being a mindless robot just following
along with the rest of the anti-Judyth bashers and with no knowledge of
what I was even talking about....well, actually I can turn that around to
he doesn't know what he is talking about.

Little does he know, that I actually do have experience in dealing with
dilussional and fantasy story tellers. I have listened to some pretty
preposterous stories and most of Judyth's claims fit right in there.
Actually, I am able to read, and can see for myself all the sudden add-ons
and then the denials and sanitzing that has occured. I also have copies of
some of her direct writings.

I have stated that I do not believe her and yet I have not been on a
specific campaign to de-bunk her. Yet, to not believe her, we are accused
of all sorts of ridiculous things that are just not true. LIke, for
example, I also do not believe the James Files claims and have so stated
on occasion. Yet, I don't recall anyone ever accusing me harrassing him,
or of the things I am accused of, in regard to not believing Judyth.

If there ever comes a day that I do believe her, after I see what
documentation she actually does have, then I will so state that too.

Dixie

[Dixie M Dea]

Top Post

Martin

I never said any such thing!! I have nevcr been open minded about Judyth's
claims and never pretended that I was...not ever! I saw it as ho-key even
way-back, the first time I read the Salon article. I have even been
criticised for stating I was not open-minded and had comtempt prior to
investigation. This is just the way it was. Somethings I believe and
somethings I don't.

In addition, I did not protest even once that I was an immediate critic
at DellaRosas forum. What I did say was that I could not recall what I
likely did say it.

You're misquoting me, tells me plenty and probably, I am not the only one
to notice either.

Dixie


Group: alt.assassination.jfk Date: Fri, Aug 13, 2004, 9:00am (PDT+3)
From: ***@concentric.net (Martin=A0Shackelford)

First you say you were open-minded toward Judyth. Now you admit that you
"never believed" her, and yet you continue to protest that you weren't
an immediate critic on the Della Rosa forum, despite the content of the
posts McAdams provided us all.

Martin


Group: alt.assassination.jfk
On 12 Aug 2004 00:11:40 -0400, Martin Shackelford
<***@concentric.net> wrote:

We know who she is and who she did and didn't interview (detailed in
another post), John. If you rely on her as another of your hot sources,
good luck.

Thu, Aug 12, 2004, 4:22am (PDT+7) From:
***@marquette.edu (John McAdams)

Gosh, it seems like *everybody* is an evil person out to get Judyth.
Debra is, David Lifton is, Robert Baker is, Rose Baker is, Louis Girdler
is, Matt Allison is, etc. etc. And now the woman lawyer is.

It couldn't be that a lot of people have honestly been disillusioned
with Judyth when they figured out that her story didn't make sense,
could it?

John

John

You sure got that right! Except that I never had to beeome
disillusioned, since I never believed anyway.

I did not even bother to reply to Martin's last comments to me, was it
last week or week before last? I suppose he figured if he intimidated me
and attempted to descredit me, I would go away, like an annoying fly.

To be accused (more or less) of being a mindless robot just following
along with the rest of the anti-Judyth bashers and with no knowledge of
what I was even talking about....well, actually I can turn that around
to he doesn't know what he is talking about.

Little does he know, that I actually do have experience in dealing with
dilussional and fantasy story tellers. I have listened to some pretty
preposterous stories and most of Judyth's claims fit right in there.
Actually, I am able to read, and can see for myself all the sudden
add-ons and then the denials and sanitzing that has occured. I also have
copies of some of her direct writings.

I have stated that I do not believe her and yet I have not been on a
specific campaign to de-bunk her. Yet, to not believe her, we are
accused of all sorts of ridiculous things that are just not true. LIke,
for example, I also do not believe the James Files claims and have so
stated on occasion. Yet, I don't recall anyone ever accusing me
harrassing him, or of the things I am accused of, in regard to not
believing Judyth.

If there ever comes a day that I do believe her, after I see what
documentation she actually does have, then I will so state that too.

Dixie

[Martin Shackelford]

You raced here with your colleagues to deny that there was anything but
an open-minded attitude toward Judyth initially. Now you're backing off
from that, and pretending it never happened. I'll bet I'm not the only
one to notice THAT, either.

Martin

Post by Dixie M Dea
Top Post
Martin
I never said any such thing!! I have nevcr been open minded about Judyth's
claims and never pretended that I was...not ever! I saw it as ho-key even
way-back, the first time I read the Salon article. I have even been
criticised for stating I was not open-minded and had comtempt prior to
investigation. This is just the way it was. Somethings I believe and
somethings I don't.
In addition, I did not protest even once that I was an immediate critic
at DellaRosas forum. What I did say was that I could not recall what I
likely did say it.
You're misquoting me, tells me plenty and probably, I am not the only one
to notice either.
Dixie
Group: alt.assassination.jfk Date: Fri, Aug 13, 2004, 9:00am (PDT+3)
First you say you were open-minded toward Judyth. Now you admit that you
"never believed" her, and yet you continue to protest that you weren't
an immediate critic on the Della Rosa forum, despite the content of the
posts McAdams provided us all.
Martin
Group: alt.assassination.jfk
On 12 Aug 2004 00:11:40 -0400, Martin Shackelford
We know who she is and who she did and didn't interview (detailed in
another post), John. If you rely on her as another of your hot sources,
good luck.
Gosh, it seems like *everybody* is an evil person out to get Judyth.
Debra is, David Lifton is, Robert Baker is, Rose Baker is, Louis Girdler
is, Matt Allison is, etc. etc. And now the woman lawyer is.
It couldn't be that a lot of people have honestly been disillusioned
with Judyth when they figured out that her story didn't make sense,
could it?
John
John
You sure got that right! Except that I never had to beeome
disillusioned, since I never believed anyway.
I did not even bother to reply to Martin's last comments to me, was it
last week or week before last? I suppose he figured if he intimidated me
and attempted to descredit me, I would go away, like an annoying fly.
To be accused (more or less) of being a mindless robot just following
along with the rest of the anti-Judyth bashers and with no knowledge of
what I was even talking about....well, actually I can turn that around
to he doesn't know what he is talking about.
Little does he know, that I actually do have experience in dealing with
dilussional and fantasy story tellers. I have listened to some pretty
preposterous stories and most of Judyth's claims fit right in there.
Actually, I am able to read, and can see for myself all the sudden
add-ons and then the denials and sanitzing that has occured. I also have
copies of some of her direct writings.
I have stated that I do not believe her and yet I have not been on a
specific campaign to de-bunk her. Yet, to not believe her, we are
accused of all sorts of ridiculous things that are just not true. LIke,
for example, I also do not believe the James Files claims and have so
stated on occasion. Yet, I don't recall anyone ever accusing me
harrassing him, or of the things I am accused of, in regard to not
believing Judyth.
If there ever comes a day that I do believe her, after I see what
documentation she actually does have, then I will so state that too.
Dixie

[Dixie M Dea]

Top Post

Martin

I was hoping to be able to stop this rediculous arguing with you, but it
looks like I am going to have to go to google and grab exactly what I
said, which is totally different then what you are claiming.

Dixie


Re: WIM DANKBAAR - JUDYTH BAKER HOAX - THE PROOF

Group: alt.assassination.jfk Date: Sat, Aug 14, 2004, 9:20am (PDT+3)
From: ***@concentric.net (Martin=A0Shackelford)

You raced here with your colleagues to deny that there was anything but
an open-minded attitude toward Judyth initially. Now you're backing off
from that, and pretending it never happened. I'll bet I'm not the only
one to notice THAT, either.

Martin

Dixie M Dea wrote:

Top Post

Martin

I never said any such thing!! I have nevcr been open minded about
Judyth's claims and never pretended that I was...not ever! I saw it as
ho-key even way-back, the first time I read the Salon article. I have
even been criticised for stating I was not open-minded and had comtempt
prior to investigation. This is just the way it was. Somethings I
believe and somethings I don't.

In addition, I did not protest even once that I was an immediate critic
at DellaRosas forum. What I did say was that I could not recall what I
likely did say it.

You're misquoting me, tells me plenty and probably, I am not the only
one to notice either.

Dixie

Group: alt.assassination.jfk Date: Fri, Aug 13, 2004, 9:00am (PDT+3)
From: ***@concentric.net (Martin Shackelford)

First you say you were open-minded toward Judyth. Now you admit that you
"never believed" her, and yet you continue to protest that you weren't
an immediate critic on the Della Rosa forum, despite the content of the
posts McAdams provided us all.

Martin

Group: alt.assassination.jfk
On 12 Aug 2004 00:11:40 -0400, Martin Shackelford
<***@concentric.net> wrote:

We know who she is and who she did and didn't interview (detailed in
another post), John. If you rely on her as another of your hot sources,
good luck.

Thu, Aug 12, 2004, 4:22am (PDT+7) From:
***@marquette.edu (John McAdams)

Gosh, it seems like *everybody* is an evil person out to get Judyth.
Debra is, David Lifton is, Robert Baker is, Rose Baker is, Louis Girdler
is, Matt Allison is, etc. etc. And now the woman lawyer is.

It couldn't be that a lot of people have honestly been disillusioned
with Judyth when they figured out that her story didn't make sense,
could it?

John

John

You sure got that right! Except that I never had to beeome
disillusioned, since I never believed anyway.

I did not even bother to reply to Martin's last comments to me, was it
last week or week before last? I suppose he figured if he intimidated me
and attempted to descredit me, I would go away, like an annoying fly.
To be accused (more or less) of being a mindless robot just following
along with the rest of the anti-Judyth bashers and with no knowledge of
what I was even talking about....well, actually I can turn that around
to he doesn't know what he is talking about.
Little does he know, that I actually do have experience in dealing with
dilussional and fantasy story tellers. I have listened to some pretty
preposterous stories and most of Judyth's claims fit right in there.
Actually, I am able to read, and can see for myself all the sudden
add-ons and then the denials and sanitzing that has occured. I also have
copies of some of her direct writings.

I have stated that I do not believe her and yet I have not been on a
specific campaign to de-bunk her. Yet, to not believe her, we are
accused of all sorts of ridiculous things that are just not true. LIke,
for example, I also do not believe the James Files claims and have so
stated on occasion. Yet, I don't recall anyone ever accusing me
harrassing him, or of the things I am accused of, in regard to not
believing Judyth.

If there ever comes a day that I do believe her, after I see what
documentation she actually does have, then I will so state that too.

Dixie


Re: WIM DANKBAAR - JUDYTH BAKER HOAX - THE PROOF

Group: alt.assassination.jfk Date: Sat, Aug 14, 2004, 9:20am (PDT+3)
From: ***@concentric.net (Martin=A0Shackelford)
You raced here with your colleagues to deny that there was anything but
an open-minded attitude toward Judyth initially. Now you're backing off
from that, and pretending it never happened. I'll bet I'm not the only
one to notice THAT, either.
Martin
Dixie M Dea wrote:
Top Post
Martin
I never said any such thing!! I have nevcr been open minded about
Judyth's claims and never pretended that I was...not ever! I saw it as
ho-key even way-back, the first time I read the Salon article. I have
even been criticised for stating I was not open-minded and had comtempt
prior to investigation. This is just the way it was. Somethings I
believe and somethings I don't.
In addition, I did not protest even once that I was an immediate critic
at DellaRosas forum. What I did say was that I could not recall what I
likely did say it.
You're misquoting me, tells me plenty and probably, I am not the only
one to notice either.
Dixie
Group: alt.assassination.jfk Date: Fri, Aug 13, 2004, 9:00am (PDT+3)
From: ***@concentric.net (Martin Shackelford)
First you say you were open-minded toward Judyth. Now you admit that you
"never believed" her, and yet you continue to protest that you weren't
an immediate critic on the Della Rosa forum, despite the content of the
posts McAdams provided us all.
Martin
Group: alt.assassination.jfk
On 12 Aug 2004 00:11:40 -0400, Martin Shackelford
<***@concentric.net> wrote:
We know who she is and who she did and didn't interview (detailed in
another post), John. If you rely on her as another of your hot sources,
good luck.
Thu, Aug 12, 2004, 4:22am (PDT+7) From:
***@marquette.edu (John McAdams)
Gosh, it seems like *everybody* is an evil person out to get Judyth.
Debra is, David Lifton is, Robert Baker is, Rose Baker is, Louis Girdler
is, Matt Allison is, etc. etc. And now the woman lawyer is.
It couldn't be that a lot of people have honestly been disillusioned
with Judyth when they figured out that her story didn't make sense,
could it?
John

John

You sure got that right! Except that I never had to beeome
disillusioned, since I never believed anyway.

I did not even bother to reply to Martin's last comments to me, was it
last week or week before last? I suppose he figured if he intimidated me
and attempted to descredit me, I would go away, like an annoying fly.

To be accused (more or less) of being a mindless robot just following
along with the rest of the anti-Judyth bashers and with no knowledge of
what I was even talking about....well, actually I can turn that around
to he doesn't know what he is talking about.

Little does he know, that I actually do have experience in dealing with
dilussional and fantasy story tellers. I have listened to some pretty
preposterous stories and most of Judyth's claims fit right in there.
Actually, I am able to read, and can see for myself all the sudden
add-ons and then the denials and sanitzing that has occured. I also have
copies of some of her direct writings.

I have stated that I do not believe her and yet I have not been on a
specific campaign to de-bunk her. Yet, to not believe her, we are
accused of all sorts of ridiculous things that are just not true. LIke,
for example, I also do not believe the James Files claims and have so
stated on occasion. Yet, I don't recall anyone ever accusing me
harrassing him, or of the things I am accused of, in regard to not
believing Judyth.

If there ever comes a day that I do believe her, after I see what
documentation she actually does have, then I will so state that too.

Dixie

[Dixie M Dea]

Martin..

Among my biggest fears are that I will be accused of something I didn't
say or do. To continually be misquoted is equally upsetting to me. I do
not want to persist in this latest accusation and yet I cannot just let
you and others believe the things you accuse me of. Such matters are
just too important to me!

For this reason, I did go to google and located my very first message that
I posted here, on July 31. 04. It does baffle me though why you would
state that I was one of the first ones at Rich's forum to speak out
against Judyth (which I don't deny) and then to turn around and claim that
I had an open mind...and then to now deny all that. I mean like why would
I even do that, since it hardly matters anyway.

At the very bottom, I have included only the pertinent sentences under
discussion, from my rather long first message here on 7-31-04. From here
on out, I would appreciate it, if you will discontinue with the unfounded
accusations. In my opinion, it is pointless to persist in such a
meaningless discussion and in that, I am equally at fault. There is much
more important issues to discuss, then what I may or may not have said,
two years ago....and like who cares about that anyway?

Dixie

Group: alt.assassination.jfk Date: Fri, Aug 13, 2004, 9:00am (PDT+3)
From: ***@concentric.net (Martin Shackelford)

First you say you were open-minded toward Judyth. Now you admit that you
"never believed" her, and yet you continue to protest that you weren't
an immediate critic on the Della Rosa forum, despite the content of the
posts McAdams provided us all.

Martin


Martin

I never said any such thing!! I have nevcr been open minded about
Judyth's claims and never pretended that I was...not ever! I saw it as
ho-key even way-back, the first time I read the Salon article. I have
even been criticised for stating I was not open-minded and had comtempt
prior to investigation. This is just the way it was. Somethings I
believe and somethings I don't.

In addition, I did not protest even once that I was an immediate critic
at DellaRosas forum. What I did say was that I could not recall what I
likely did say it.

You're misquoting me, tells me plenty and probably, I am not the only
one to notice either.

Dixie

Group: alt.assassination.jfk Date: Sat, Aug 14, 2004, 9:20am (PDT+3)
From: ***@concentric.net (Martin=A0Shackelford)

You raced here with your colleagues to deny that there was anything but
an open-minded attitude toward Judyth initially. Now you're backing off
from that, and pretending it never happened. I'll bet I'm not the only
one to notice THAT, either.

Martin

Group: alt.assassination.jfk Date: Sat, Aug 14, 2004, 9:03pm (PDT+3)
From: ***@webtv.net (Dixie=A0M=A0Dea)

Martin

I was hoping to be able to stop this rediculous arguing with you, but it
looks like I am going to have to go to google and grab exactly what I
said, which is totally different then what you are claiming.

Dixie

(Quote)

Search Result 10From: Dixie M Dea (***@webtv.net) Subject: Re:
Judyth on JFK Research - A Fascinating History-
View: Complete Thread (42 articles) Original FormatNewsgroups:
alt.assassination.jfk
Date: 2004-07-31 19:06:49 PST

"I am unable to speak for anyone that Martin has written about, except
myself. I do not recall if I actually said those things credited to me.
since it was two years ago. However, I do not deny that I probably did
say these things.

As to whether I believe Judyths claims...no I do not! I do admit that I
have never seen any of Judyths so-called documentations. I do have close
associates who have though. I am the type of person that does not ever
just blindly accept someones words or their claims on anything, until or
unless I see some documentation."

(Unquote)

[Frank Gerber]

Hello Bob,

when I began being interested in the Jfk-case, I bought the video
"Confession Of An Assassin". And seeing it, I was stunned how easy it is,
to make money out of this case.

Would you pay me as much as the family af James Files, if I would confess
being in Dealey Plaza November 22, 1963 and shooting at Jfk? I can offer
500 shell-casings .223 Rem., that we could hide in Dealey Plaza before
going public. I think 500 shots should be enough to prove "the truth".

Oh no!!! One little problem remains: I was born 1971. But IŽm sure, that
we can manage to overcome this little "timing error". Just depends on how
much money we can make together. Perhaps I can convince my mother, that I
was born a few years earlier. And IŽm sure, I can find some witnesses for
my birthday in the 1940s. But that wonŽt be cheap!!! And IŽll not be able
to get these fine little assassin-bullets, which vanish on impact. They
are not sold arround here. Could you please get some for me?

Frank

PS: If I give you the video back, would you give me my money back?



Sometimes later I read

Post by Dr. Truth
I promised myself and others that I would not make any more public comments
about anything to do with the JFK assassination and I plan to do that but I
do feel that I need to make one more comment before I get back to the
business at hand and that is to continue our private investigation on James
Files, Tosh Plumlee and Chauncey Holt and to publish ONLY the truth to the
public as is my right as per my assertion of my legal rights to reclaim my
property after a contract breach by Wim Dankbaar.
I am sick and tired of hearing about Judyth Baker for she is simply not
telling the truth and every piece of credible research and investigation
that I have seen, and investigation and research that I have personaly done
myself, all indicates she is bogus. Yet, after being told endlessly and
presented with fact after fact that Baker is bogus, we still see Wim
Dankbaar continuing to perpetrate the Baker hoax as he has attempted to do
since he first started trying to convince me she was real.
Forget the fact that Dankbaar has breached his agreement with me, slandered
and libeled my name, lied to me and my family and caused us irreparable
harm, committed both civil tort and criminal offenses against me, converted
my property, conspired with other persons to convert my property, and lied
to 21 other decent fine Americans also causing them irreparable damages,
cast all of that aside for I have lawyers that handle thieves and liars like
him and his store bought friends.
What is important is the truth and that's all you've ever gotten from me and
all you will ever get.
The following information was received by me in the last 24 hours. I am not
at liberty to tell you who sent this to me but I have turned this info in
its original signed form over to my attorney as further proof of the
continued lies told about me by Dankbaar and now by one of his partners in
crime, Judyth Baker. The document speaks for itself and I can assure you,
it came from a very credible JFK researcher who has worked for years to get
to the truth about the murder of JFK, a very well respected person in the
JFK Research community. Let the documents below speak for themselves for
______________________________________________________________
Robert Baker told me on the phone that he sent her a box(s?) of her stuff
that evidently contained many items from their married years together. Like
every little scrap of paper. His theory, which makes sense, is that she has
patched together her story from this material. But, he does NOT wish to get
into this with her any further -- as you can imagine.
For example, she showed me pages of love letters with the corners torn off
where the Dear " _ _ _" would be. She claimed they were letters to L-E-E but
I suspect they were letters to her husband B-O-B (same spacing). And why
would she have the letters she supposedly sent or gave to Lee Oswald? Didn't
they see each other in person? Did he give them back to her? What bull. Her
husband traveled and she wrote to him.
Anyway, it doesn't matter because she will make something up to explain it
all away and I don't have the time for her. It is absolutely amazing to me
that anyone believes her.
By the way, it wasn't Debra Conway that investigated her for 60 Minutes and
convinced
them she is bogus. A very, very smart woman attorney did that and is proud
of it. Don Hewett and co. had no idea how easy it was to put together a JFK
assassination story from books and the internet -- and was SO impressed with
Judyth's story. Give me a break.
(Believe me, she was totally and completely
checked out.)
And I think you saw a copy of one of the letters with the corner torn off,
didn't you? Another question: She says she threw away things and never
talked about her experiences with Oswald, but she kept these letters? What
would Bob say if he found them?? Oops.
But seriously, please accept that you will never have the last word with
Judyth. She will never stop. She has a fan club now and loves all this
attention. She adores being the victim and causing all this controversy.
Anyway, that's my 2¢.
_________________________________________________________________
Anyone who can clearly understand the English language should easily be able
to ascertain the truth stated in these emails above.
If you need any other proof, please understand that I am from New Orleans
and I know the Oschner family, particularly Dr. John Oschner, son of Alton
Oschner who is now in his late 70s or early 80s and is retired, one of the
most respected citizens and doctors in the city, if not the world. I have
personally talked to Dr. Oschner two times about Judyth Vary Baker. Dr.
Oschner has no reason to lie and let me assure you it is common knowledge in
New Orleans about his father's and his activities throughout the years for
it is cocktail party talk in uptown New Orleans and you can take that to the
bank. Dr. John Oschner was heavily involved in all experiments involving
his father's cancer research throughout the years, covert and otherwise, and
is still as sharp as a tack even in his golden years. Dr. John Oschner knew
every single cancer researcher involved with his father and their
experiments through the years, many of them he hired, most of which HE
SUPERVISED. What is critical here is that Dr. John Oschner had hands on
daily experience with everything that went on in his father's medical
research.
Dr. John Oschner does not know a Judyth Vary Baker nor has he never heard of
her. He checked not only the Oschner files and records archives, but he
also contacted the Reilly Coffee Company but to no avail. In my last
communication with Dr. Oschner, over a year ago, he asked me to get her
social security number and that this might be helpful in finding out if
Baker was ever a patient at their clinic. I haven't felt it was necessary
to bother this gentleman any further. I'm sure he has more important things
to do. I do.
Take it from there. At least you know the truth.
Over and out.
Bob Vernon
aka Dr. Truth

[Martin Shackelford]

If this is Bob Vernon's idea of research and truth-seeking, maybe I
wasted my money buying his DVD. We'll see.
This particular post appears to be an adjunct to his ongoing feud with
Wim Dankbaar, which may suggest it's true motivation.

His statement that Judyth Baker is "simply not telling the truth" is
based on a very confused analysis of very fragmentary materials provided
by someone hostile to Ms. Baker, and from a witness who one would not
expect to know anything about her.

"Dr. Truth" says he just got his data from a well-known JFK researcher
who is, however, too cowardly to allow his or her name to be mentioned.
We can easily narrow down the possibilties, though--which also suggests
why this "researcher" wants to remain anonymous. Let's look at this
"evidence":

1) A statement on the phone by Robert Baker that he sent Judyth "a box
of stuff," and his theory that she "patched together" her account from
this material (though she mentioned the affair to her sister in 1964).
In fact, that material wasn't what the box contained--she took the 1963
material with her in a suitcase, as her son has attested--and "Dr.
Truth" offers no explanation for her retaining the 1963 material for so
many years, while material from other years was discarded. The box
contained a collection of letters clearly written by Judyth to Robert,
whom she called Bobby, not Bob. It is his CURRENT wife who calls him
Bob, and it was she, not Robert, who sent the box to Judyth.

2) Suddenly, he becomes "she"--and shows "pages of love letters with the
corners torn off where the 'Dear---' would be." There was only ONE
letter with the corner torn off, and it was not where either the address
or the salutation would appear. Apparently "Dr. Truth" got this
misinformation from the same individual who has provided it to others
here in the past, as the misinformation is identical. Clearly, the "she"
is Rose Baker, who assumes Judyth used the same nickname for Robert that
she does--an error on her part. The letter to Lee was returned to her
just before they both left New Orleans. The tone of the letter is
entirely different from those she wrote to her husband, and the content
is incomprehensible as a letter to Robert, so all this is ignored.

3) There is reference to "Lee" being torn out of the letters, but this
is simply more misinformation, but it does identify "Dr. Truth"'s source
as Debra Conway, for she saw a poem which had Lee's name torn out. As
I've noted, the argument that the three-letter name could have been Bob
simply doesn't make sense, and in some places, the tears are
incomplete--the top of the first letter (L, not B) and a piece of the
last letter (e, not b) are visible in places.

4) "Dr. Truth" counters all responses in advance by saying that Judyth
"will make something up." In fact, many of us saw this letter long ago,
and know how it's being misrepresented. And yet, he accepts a version
that turns a letter and a poem into a collection of letters, and places
them in a box in which they were never sent. Good job, "Dr. Truth."
Clearly, he knows nothing about Judyth himself, and is merely relying on
Judyth-bashers such as Ms. Conway.

5) We are then told that "a very smart woman attorney" (another
anonymous individual--"Dr. Truth" seems fond of unverifiable sources)
investigated Judyth. And who did this "very smart woman attorney" talk
with?:
a)Robert Baker--who was gone most of the summer of 1963.
b)Rose Baker--who met Judyth perhaps twice, but who considers herself an
expert on the life and psychology of Judyth, and has repeatedly made
wildly inaccurate claims about Judyth, to the point that Robert
eventually apologized for them.
c)Dr. Jacobus--who remembered Judyth, and recalled sending her $60 worth
of chemicals. "Dr. Truth," of course, wasn't told this, it seems.
d)Sen. George Smathers--who had no reason to talk publicly about Judyth.
e)Nicky Chetta--who was asked about something Ed Haslam said, not Judyth.
f)David Lifton and Debra Conway--friends and Judyth bashers.
Also important is who she DIDN'T make any attempt to talk with,
suggesting the agenda of her "investigation," though she was provided
with the names and contact information:
a) New Orleans witnesses who confirmed the affair.
b) Several researchers who had corroborating information.
c) Members of Judyth's family who actually KNEW something about this.
d) Mary Ferrell, who offered to talk with the woman about the book
Judyth had described.
The "woman attorney" may have been smart, but she doesn't appear to have
been objective. But, to "Dr. Truth," this ridiculous farce proves that
Judyth was "totally and completely checked out." Amazing.

6) Further evidence that "Dr. Truth" relied for his "truth" on Debra
Conway is the e-mail's reference to Judyth having a "fan club," loving
the attention, and--one of Debra's favorite recent themes--"adores being
the victim and causing all this controversy." It was, of course, Debra
who recently came onto the newsgroup claiming to have been victimized.
When only one of her claims stood up to close scrutiny in discussions on
her own JFK Lancer newsgroup, she began closing threads and, as noted,
moving them to her "Weird Stuff" section.

7) "Dr. Truth" says the "truth" is plain to "anyone who can clearly
understand the English language"--just believe what Debra says,
apparently. Anyone who clearly understands the EVIDENCE, however, knows
that "Dr. Truth" has been fed a load of bull.

8) Then "Dr. Truth" throws in his own "hot new evidence" against Judyth.
Alas, it is more sham. He assumes that Dr. John Ochsner would:
a) Know about Judyth if she was genuine--but there is no reason to
assume that.
b) Know about any cancer research projects involving his father,
including covert ones--again, very doubtful, but at least he admits that
John's father was involved in "covert cancer research projects." From
1961 to 1966, according to his father's biography (Surgeon of the South,
pp. 222-223), John and Alton Jr. were engaged in a heated feud over who
would handle heart surgery at the Ochsner facilities--John won out and
became head of the Department of Surgery, and Alton Jr. focused instead
on--guess what?--cancer research. He was also the anti-Castro activist
of the two (he was working with Ed Butler at the time Butler said he had
Guy Banister's old files). So who would have been more likely to be
aware of Judyth--John or his brother Alton? Yet "Dr. Truth" wants us to
believe that John knew all, and that his interview is definitive. Not
really. He evades the issue by saying that John Ochsner "has no reason
to lie." Probably not. He ALSO has no reason to know of Judyth Baker,
genuine or not.
What does "Dr. Truth" consider so definitive?:
a) John knew "every single cancer researcher involved with his father."
Judyth, of course, didn't work with his father. "Dr. Truth" says nothing
about inquiring about Dr. Mary Sherman, whom Judyth DID work with, and
claims John supervised all cancer research. Later, perhaps, but in 1963
his focus was on heart surgery, as he battled his brother for primacy.
b) John "does not know a Judyth Vary Baker nor has he ever heard of
her." Here, "Dr. Truth" again shows the gaps in his awareness. John's
father would have known of her as "Judy Vary." As noted, there is no
reason that John WOULD have been aware of her.
c) John "checked...the Ochsner files and records archives." So what.
Judyth was never on the books as an Ochsner employee. "Dr. Truth" adds
that John offered to check patient records, but there has NEVER been a
claim by ANYONE that Judyth was an Ochsner PATIENT.
d) Then comes the funniest part--and the most revealing. John told him
he also checked with "the Reilly [sic] Coffee Company," "but to no
avail." AWWWW, how tragic. Of course, there is no doubt whatsoever that
Judyth worked for the Reily Company in the summer of 1963. If she was,
in fact, deleted from Reily Co. records, that would be MOST interesting.
The summer 1963 records, of course, are at the National Archives, not at
the Reily Company, which may explain why Dr. John was unable to locate
them. Perhaps this all came out of David Lifton's silly statement that
Judyth claimed to have done cancer research "at a coffee company."

The clearly mis-named "Dr. Truth" concludes this hash of misinformation
with "At least you know the truth." We do, Bob, and the truth will set
us free from your nonsense.

Martin

Post by Dr. Truth
I promised myself and others that I would not make any more public comments
about anything to do with the JFK assassination and I plan to do that but I
do feel that I need to make one more comment before I get back to the
business at hand and that is to continue our private investigation on James
Files, Tosh Plumlee and Chauncey Holt and to publish ONLY the truth to the
public as is my right as per my assertion of my legal rights to reclaim my
property after a contract breach by Wim Dankbaar.
I am sick and tired of hearing about Judyth Baker for she is simply not
telling the truth and every piece of credible research and investigation
that I have seen, and investigation and research that I have personaly done
myself, all indicates she is bogus. Yet, after being told endlessly and
presented with fact after fact that Baker is bogus, we still see Wim
Dankbaar continuing to perpetrate the Baker hoax as he has attempted to do
since he first started trying to convince me she was real.
Forget the fact that Dankbaar has breached his agreement with me, slandered
and libeled my name, lied to me and my family and caused us irreparable
harm, committed both civil tort and criminal offenses against me, converted
my property, conspired with other persons to convert my property, and lied
to 21 other decent fine Americans also causing them irreparable damages,
cast all of that aside for I have lawyers that handle thieves and liars like
him and his store bought friends.
What is important is the truth and that's all you've ever gotten from me and
all you will ever get.
The following information was received by me in the last 24 hours. I am not
at liberty to tell you who sent this to me but I have turned this info in
its original signed form over to my attorney as further proof of the
continued lies told about me by Dankbaar and now by one of his partners in
crime, Judyth Baker. The document speaks for itself and I can assure you,
it came from a very credible JFK researcher who has worked for years to get
to the truth about the murder of JFK, a very well respected person in the
JFK Research community. Let the documents below speak for themselves for
______________________________________________________________
Robert Baker told me on the phone that he sent her a box(s?) of her stuff
that evidently contained many items from their married years together. Like
every little scrap of paper. His theory, which makes sense, is that she has
patched together her story from this material. But, he does NOT wish to get
into this with her any further -- as you can imagine.
For example, she showed me pages of love letters with the corners torn off
where the Dear " _ _ _" would be. She claimed they were letters to L-E-E but
I suspect they were letters to her husband B-O-B (same spacing). And why
would she have the letters she supposedly sent or gave to Lee Oswald? Didn't
they see each other in person? Did he give them back to her? What bull. Her
husband traveled and she wrote to him.
Anyway, it doesn't matter because she will make something up to explain it
all away and I don't have the time for her. It is absolutely amazing to me
that anyone believes her.
By the way, it wasn't Debra Conway that investigated her for 60 Minutes and
convinced
them she is bogus. A very, very smart woman attorney did that and is proud
of it. Don Hewett and co. had no idea how easy it was to put together a JFK
assassination story from books and the internet -- and was SO impressed with
Judyth's story. Give me a break.
(Believe me, she was totally and completely
checked out.)
And I think you saw a copy of one of the letters with the corner torn off,
didn't you? Another question: She says she threw away things and never
talked about her experiences with Oswald, but she kept these letters? What
would Bob say if he found them?? Oops.
But seriously, please accept that you will never have the last word with
Judyth. She will never stop. She has a fan club now and loves all this
attention. She adores being the victim and causing all this controversy.
Anyway, that's my 2¢.
_________________________________________________________________
Anyone who can clearly understand the English language should easily be able
to ascertain the truth stated in these emails above.
If you need any other proof, please understand that I am from New Orleans
and I know the Oschner family, particularly Dr. John Oschner, son of Alton
Oschner who is now in his late 70s or early 80s and is retired, one of the
most respected citizens and doctors in the city, if not the world. I have
personally talked to Dr. Oschner two times about Judyth Vary Baker. Dr.
Oschner has no reason to lie and let me assure you it is common knowledge in
New Orleans about his father's and his activities throughout the years for
it is cocktail party talk in uptown New Orleans and you can take that to the
bank. Dr. John Oschner was heavily involved in all experiments involving
his father's cancer research throughout the years, covert and otherwise, and
is still as sharp as a tack even in his golden years. Dr. John Oschner knew
every single cancer researcher involved with his father and their
experiments through the years, many of them he hired, most of which HE
SUPERVISED. What is critical here is that Dr. John Oschner had hands on
daily experience with everything that went on in his father's medical
research.
Dr. John Oschner does not know a Judyth Vary Baker nor has he never heard of
her. He checked not only the Oschner files and records archives, but he
also contacted the Reilly Coffee Company but to no avail. In my last
communication with Dr. Oschner, over a year ago, he asked me to get her
social security number and that this might be helpful in finding out if
Baker was ever a patient at their clinic. I haven't felt it was necessary
to bother this gentleman any further. I'm sure he has more important things
to do. I do.
Take it from there. At least you know the truth.
Over and out.
Bob Vernon
aka Dr. Truth

[Pamela McElwain-Brown]

What mod let this subject line through? "Hoax" is not appropriate in this
forum, is it? I was chastised for misusing "fabricate". Hoax is far more
serious IMO.

Pamela :-)

Post by Dr. Truth
I promised myself and others that I would not make any more public comments
about anything to do with the JFK assassination and I plan to do that but I
do feel that I need to make one more comment before I get back to the
business at hand and that is to continue our private investigation on James
Files, Tosh Plumlee and Chauncey Holt and to publish ONLY the truth to the
public as is my right as per my assertion of my legal rights to reclaim my
property after a contract breach by Wim Dankbaar.
I am sick and tired of hearing about Judyth Baker for she is simply not
telling the truth and every piece of credible research and investigation
that I have seen, and investigation and research that I have personaly done
myself, all indicates she is bogus. Yet, after being told endlessly and
presented with fact after fact that Baker is bogus, we still see Wim
Dankbaar continuing to perpetrate the Baker hoax as he has attempted to do
since he first started trying to convince me she was real.
Forget the fact that Dankbaar has breached his agreement with me, slandered
and libeled my name, lied to me and my family and caused us irreparable
harm, committed both civil tort and criminal offenses against me, converted
my property, conspired with other persons to convert my property, and lied
to 21 other decent fine Americans also causing them irreparable damages,
cast all of that aside for I have lawyers that handle thieves and liars like
him and his store bought friends.
What is important is the truth and that's all you've ever gotten from me and
all you will ever get.
The following information was received by me in the last 24 hours. I am not
at liberty to tell you who sent this to me but I have turned this info in
its original signed form over to my attorney as further proof of the
continued lies told about me by Dankbaar and now by one of his partners in
crime, Judyth Baker. The document speaks for itself and I can assure you,
it came from a very credible JFK researcher who has worked for years to get
to the truth about the murder of JFK, a very well respected person in the
JFK Research community. Let the documents below speak for themselves for
______________________________________________________________
Robert Baker told me on the phone that he sent her a box(s?) of her stuff
that evidently contained many items from their married years together. Like
every little scrap of paper. His theory, which makes sense, is that she has
patched together her story from this material. But, he does NOT wish to get
into this with her any further -- as you can imagine.
For example, she showed me pages of love letters with the corners torn off
where the Dear " _ _ _" would be. She claimed they were letters to L-E-E but
I suspect they were letters to her husband B-O-B (same spacing). And why
would she have the letters she supposedly sent or gave to Lee Oswald? Didn't
they see each other in person? Did he give them back to her? What bull. Her
husband traveled and she wrote to him.
Anyway, it doesn't matter because she will make something up to explain it
all away and I don't have the time for her. It is absolutely amazing to me
that anyone believes her.
By the way, it wasn't Debra Conway that investigated her for 60 Minutes and
convinced
them she is bogus. A very, very smart woman attorney did that and is proud
of it. Don Hewett and co. had no idea how easy it was to put together a JFK
assassination story from books and the internet -- and was SO impressed with
Judyth's story. Give me a break.
(Believe me, she was totally and completely
checked out.)
And I think you saw a copy of one of the letters with the corner torn off,
didn't you? Another question: She says she threw away things and never
talked about her experiences with Oswald, but she kept these letters? What
would Bob say if he found them?? Oops.
But seriously, please accept that you will never have the last word with
Judyth. She will never stop. She has a fan club now and loves all this
attention. She adores being the victim and causing all this controversy.
Anyway, that's my 2¢.
_________________________________________________________________
Anyone who can clearly understand the English language should easily be able
to ascertain the truth stated in these emails above.
If you need any other proof, please understand that I am from New Orleans
and I know the Oschner family, particularly Dr. John Oschner, son of Alton
Oschner who is now in his late 70s or early 80s and is retired, one of the
most respected citizens and doctors in the city, if not the world. I have
personally talked to Dr. Oschner two times about Judyth Vary Baker. Dr.
Oschner has no reason to lie and let me assure you it is common knowledge in
New Orleans about his father's and his activities throughout the years for
it is cocktail party talk in uptown New Orleans and you can take that to the
bank. Dr. John Oschner was heavily involved in all experiments involving
his father's cancer research throughout the years, covert and otherwise, and
is still as sharp as a tack even in his golden years. Dr. John Oschner knew
every single cancer researcher involved with his father and their
experiments through the years, many of them he hired, most of which HE
SUPERVISED. What is critical here is that Dr. John Oschner had hands on
daily experience with everything that went on in his father's medical
research.
Dr. John Oschner does not know a Judyth Vary Baker nor has he never heard of
her. He checked not only the Oschner files and records archives, but he
also contacted the Reilly Coffee Company but to no avail. In my last
communication with Dr. Oschner, over a year ago, he asked me to get her
social security number and that this might be helpful in finding out if
Baker was ever a patient at their clinic. I haven't felt it was necessary
to bother this gentleman any further. I'm sure he has more important things
to do. I do.
Take it from there. At least you know the truth.
Over and out.
Bob Vernon
aka Dr. Truth

For more information on the JFK Assassination Presidential Limousine SS-100-X visit www.jfk100x.com.
Also, for more detailed limocentric questions and requests, please join jfk100x on Yahoogroups.com.
For information about my life away from research, visit www.themagicflute.org

[j***@gmail.com]

Admittedly I'm 12 years late to this conversation. The trouble I'm having
is wondering why it is so important for some people to discredit Judyth
Baker. She has a story and she is telling it. It's no different for your
story to be told, or the 1200 other conspiracy theories out there. What
difference does it make if she is telling the truth or not? Why is it
that important to any of you? She either is or isn't lying. Whoop tee
doo! Why her? Why spend your precious (and apparently God-given talent
time) to discredit Judyth if you feel so adamantly confident that you -
and you alone - have the real story. Why not just convince us of the real
story instead of slinging mud at her?

I suspect mud-slinging is always used by competitors, like yourself, who
have nothing else to offer. And I don't see Judyth trying to sling mud in
your direction at all. So I'm pretty certain she doesn't have a chip on
her shoulder.

Why don't you go about your business and let your results rest on their
own laurels without trying to smear someone else whose story doesn't jive
with yours? Frankly that behavior is more suspect of lying than Judyth's.

Finding out the real story behind our president's assassination would
certainly be a wonderful sideline, a brief enjoyment of enlightenment
during these journeys through this life. But never forget that our
destination is the important thing, not the flowers we smell along the
way. When we are all collected in the afterlife these investigations and
truths will be so far less important than you feel they are now, yet their
truths will be available to us all. Do you want to be the one who was
wrong then? If I personally am wrong than I hope to at least have the
saving grace of not having verbally attacked others for what they
believed. Or did. Care and respect during life is important for
happiness in eternity. And if you don't believe in the afterlife than I
certainly pity your soul. For if I am wrong pity would not be needed.
But if I am right, then you will eventually believe me.

Post by Dr. Truth
I promised myself and others that I would not make any more public comments
about anything to do with the JFK assassination and I plan to do that but I
do feel that I need to make one more comment before I get back to the
business at hand and that is to continue our private investigation on James
Files, Tosh Plumlee and Chauncey Holt and to publish ONLY the truth to the
public as is my right as per my assertion of my legal rights to reclaim my
property after a contract breach by Wim Dankbaar.
I am sick and tired of hearing about Judyth Baker for she is simply not
telling the truth and every piece of credible research and investigation
that I have seen, and investigation and research that I have personaly done
myself, all indicates she is bogus. Yet, after being told endlessly and
presented with fact after fact that Baker is bogus, we still see Wim
Dankbaar continuing to perpetrate the Baker hoax as he has attempted to do
since he first started trying to convince me she was real.
Forget the fact that Dankbaar has breached his agreement with me, slandered
and libeled my name, lied to me and my family and caused us irreparable
harm, committed both civil tort and criminal offenses against me, converted
my property, conspired with other persons to convert my property, and lied
to 21 other decent fine Americans also causing them irreparable damages,
cast all of that aside for I have lawyers that handle thieves and liars like
him and his store bought friends.
What is important is the truth and that's all you've ever gotten from me and
all you will ever get.
The following information was received by me in the last 24 hours. I am not
at liberty to tell you who sent this to me but I have turned this info in
its original signed form over to my attorney as further proof of the
continued lies told about me by Dankbaar and now by one of his partners in
crime, Judyth Baker. The document speaks for itself and I can assure you,
it came from a very credible JFK researcher who has worked for years to get
to the truth about the murder of JFK, a very well respected person in the
JFK Research community. Let the documents below speak for themselves for
______________________________________________________________
Robert Baker told me on the phone that he sent her a box(s?) of her stuff
that evidently contained many items from their married years together. Like
every little scrap of paper. His theory, which makes sense, is that she has
patched together her story from this material. But, he does NOT wish to get
into this with her any further -- as you can imagine.
For example, she showed me pages of love letters with the corners torn off
where the Dear " _ _ _" would be. She claimed they were letters to L-E-E but
I suspect they were letters to her husband B-O-B (same spacing). And why
would she have the letters she supposedly sent or gave to Lee Oswald? Didn't
they see each other in person? Did he give them back to her? What bull. Her
husband traveled and she wrote to him.
Anyway, it doesn't matter because she will make something up to explain it
all away and I don't have the time for her. It is absolutely amazing to me
that anyone believes her.
By the way, it wasn't Debra Conway that investigated her for 60 Minutes and
convinced
them she is bogus. A very, very smart woman attorney did that and is proud
of it. Don Hewett and co. had no idea how easy it was to put together a JFK
assassination story from books and the internet -- and was SO impressed with
Judyth's story. Give me a break.
(Believe me, she was totally and completely
checked out.)
And I think you saw a copy of one of the letters with the corner torn off,
didn't you? Another question: She says she threw away things and never
talked about her experiences with Oswald, but she kept these letters? What
would Bob say if he found them?? Oops.
But seriously, please accept that you will never have the last word with
Judyth. She will never stop. She has a fan club now and loves all this
attention. She adores being the victim and causing all this controversy.
Anyway, that's my 2ข.
_________________________________________________________________
Anyone who can clearly understand the English language should easily be able
to ascertain the truth stated in these emails above.
If you need any other proof, please understand that I am from New Orleans
and I know the Oschner family, particularly Dr. John Oschner, son of Alton
Oschner who is now in his late 70s or early 80s and is retired, one of the
most respected citizens and doctors in the city, if not the world. I have
personally talked to Dr. Oschner two times about Judyth Vary Baker. Dr.
Oschner has no reason to lie and let me assure you it is common knowledge in
New Orleans about his father's and his activities throughout the years for
it is cocktail party talk in uptown New Orleans and you can take that to the
bank. Dr. John Oschner was heavily involved in all experiments involving
his father's cancer research throughout the years, covert and otherwise, and
is still as sharp as a tack even in his golden years. Dr. John Oschner knew
every single cancer researcher involved with his father and their
experiments through the years, many of them he hired, most of which HE
SUPERVISED. What is critical here is that Dr. John Oschner had hands on
daily experience with everything that went on in his father's medical
research.
Dr. John Oschner does not know a Judyth Vary Baker nor has he never heard of
her. He checked not only the Oschner files and records archives, but he
also contacted the Reilly Coffee Company but to no avail. In my last
communication with Dr. Oschner, over a year ago, he asked me to get her
social security number and that this might be helpful in finding out if
Baker was ever a patient at their clinic. I haven't felt it was necessary
to bother this gentleman any further. I'm sure he has more important things
to do. I do.
Take it from there. At least you know the truth.
Over and out.
Bob Vernon
aka Dr. Truth

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by j***@gmail.com
Admittedly I'm 12 years late to this conversation. The trouble I'm having
is wondering why it is so important for some people to discredit Judyth
Baker. She has a story and she is telling it. It's no different for your
story to be told, or the 1200 other conspiracy theories out there. What
difference does it make if she is telling the truth or not? Why is it

1. So many people were duped by her and they want revenge.
2. Her story is designed to exonnerate Oswald.

Post by j***@gmail.com
that important to any of you? She either is or isn't lying. Whoop tee

The real world is not that simple. As various CIA officers have pointed
out, you can't LIE all the time or your propaganda won't work. You need
to cleverly mix in your lies with truth.

Post by j***@gmail.com
doo! Why her? Why spend your precious (and apparently God-given talent
time) to discredit Judyth if you feel so adamantly confident that you -
and you alone - have the real story. Why not just convince us of the real
story instead of slinging mud at her?

The idea is that she claims to be the only person who really knew Lee
Harvey Oswald and what he was really up to. His mind, his motives. Not
his brother, mother, wife or friends. ONLY she knows she says.

Post by j***@gmail.com
I suspect mud-slinging is always used by competitors, like yourself, who
have nothing else to offer. And I don't see Judyth trying to sling mud in
your direction at all. So I'm pretty certain she doesn't have a chip on
her shoulder.

She has something, but it's not a chip.

Post by j***@gmail.com
Why don't you go about your business and let your results rest on their
own laurels without trying to smear someone else whose story doesn't jive
with yours? Frankly that behavior is more suspect of lying than Judyth's.

Not sure what you mean. It's not always easy to separate the lies from the
truth. You have to do real, actual research. Let me give you an example.
Judyth told an interesting story about writing a letter to President
Kennedy. Her supporters just accepted that without asking for any
supportive proof. Her detractors just said she was lying and that it was
just another example of how crazy she is, just making up things from her
imagination. Not one of the WC defenders nor conspiracy kooks did any
actual research to see if it was true. So I did!

I went to the JFK Library and searched through hundreds of letters until I
found the letter Judyth wrote to President Kennedy. It was not as she
remembered it so many years later. You judge for yourself what were lies
and what where exaggerations and what were wishful thinking:

Loading Image...

Post by j***@gmail.com
Finding out the real story behind our president's assassination would
certainly be a wonderful sideline, a brief enjoyment of enlightenment
during these journeys through this life. But never forget that our

I guess history can be a fun hobby if it's not your country.
But this IS my country and I care what happened to it.

Post by j***@gmail.com
destination is the important thing, not the flowers we smell along the
way. When we are all collected in the afterlife these investigations and
truths will be so far less important than you feel they are now, yet their
truths will be available to us all. Do you want to be the one who was
wrong then? If I personally am wrong than I hope to at least have the
saving grace of not having verbally attacked others for what they
believed. Or did. Care and respect during life is important for
happiness in eternity. And if you don't believe in the afterlife than I
certainly pity your soul. For if I am wrong pity would not be needed.
But if I am right, then you will eventually believe me.

I verbally attack people when they do or say stupid things on purpose.
If they make an innocent mistake I can forgive them.

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by Dr. Truth
I promised myself and others that I would not make any more public comments
about anything to do with the JFK assassination and I plan to do that but I
do feel that I need to make one more comment before I get back to the
business at hand and that is to continue our private investigation on James
Files, Tosh Plumlee and Chauncey Holt and to publish ONLY the truth to the
public as is my right as per my assertion of my legal rights to reclaim my
property after a contract breach by Wim Dankbaar.
I am sick and tired of hearing about Judyth Baker for she is simply not
telling the truth and every piece of credible research and investigation
that I have seen, and investigation and research that I have personaly done
myself, all indicates she is bogus. Yet, after being told endlessly and
presented with fact after fact that Baker is bogus, we still see Wim
Dankbaar continuing to perpetrate the Baker hoax as he has attempted to do
since he first started trying to convince me she was real.
Forget the fact that Dankbaar has breached his agreement with me, slandered
and libeled my name, lied to me and my family and caused us irreparable
harm, committed both civil tort and criminal offenses against me, converted
my property, conspired with other persons to convert my property, and lied
to 21 other decent fine Americans also causing them irreparable damages,
cast all of that aside for I have lawyers that handle thieves and liars like
him and his store bought friends.
What is important is the truth and that's all you've ever gotten from me and
all you will ever get.
The following information was received by me in the last 24 hours. I am not
at liberty to tell you who sent this to me but I have turned this info in
its original signed form over to my attorney as further proof of the
continued lies told about me by Dankbaar and now by one of his partners in
crime, Judyth Baker. The document speaks for itself and I can assure you,
it came from a very credible JFK researcher who has worked for years to get
to the truth about the murder of JFK, a very well respected person in the
JFK Research community. Let the documents below speak for themselves for
______________________________________________________________
Robert Baker told me on the phone that he sent her a box(s?) of her stuff
that evidently contained many items from their married years together. Like
every little scrap of paper. His theory, which makes sense, is that she has
patched together her story from this material. But, he does NOT wish to get
into this with her any further -- as you can imagine.
For example, she showed me pages of love letters with the corners torn off
where the Dear " _ _ _" would be. She claimed they were letters to L-E-E but
I suspect they were letters to her husband B-O-B (same spacing). And why
would she have the letters she supposedly sent or gave to Lee Oswald? Didn't
they see each other in person? Did he give them back to her? What bull. Her
husband traveled and she wrote to him.
Anyway, it doesn't matter because she will make something up to explain it
all away and I don't have the time for her. It is absolutely amazing to me
that anyone believes her.
By the way, it wasn't Debra Conway that investigated her for 60 Minutes and
convinced
them she is bogus. A very, very smart woman attorney did that and is proud
of it. Don Hewett and co. had no idea how easy it was to put together a JFK
assassination story from books and the internet -- and was SO impressed with
Judyth's story. Give me a break.
(Believe me, she was totally and completely
checked out.)
And I think you saw a copy of one of the letters with the corner torn off,
didn't you? Another question: She says she threw away things and never
talked about her experiences with Oswald, but she kept these letters? What
would Bob say if he found them?? Oops.
But seriously, please accept that you will never have the last word with
Judyth. She will never stop. She has a fan club now and loves all this
attention. She adores being the victim and causing all this controversy.
Anyway, that's my 2???.
_________________________________________________________________
Anyone who can clearly understand the English language should easily be able
to ascertain the truth stated in these emails above.
If you need any other proof, please understand that I am from New Orleans
and I know the Oschner family, particularly Dr. John Oschner, son of Alton
Oschner who is now in his late 70s or early 80s and is retired, one of the
most respected citizens and doctors in the city, if not the world. I have
personally talked to Dr. Oschner two times about Judyth Vary Baker. Dr.
Oschner has no reason to lie and let me assure you it is common knowledge in
New Orleans about his father's and his activities throughout the years for
it is cocktail party talk in uptown New Orleans and you can take that to the
bank. Dr. John Oschner was heavily involved in all experiments involving
his father's cancer research throughout the years, covert and otherwise, and
is still as sharp as a tack even in his golden years. Dr. John Oschner knew
every single cancer researcher involved with his father and their
experiments through the years, many of them he hired, most of which HE
SUPERVISED. What is critical here is that Dr. John Oschner had hands on
daily experience with everything that went on in his father's medical
research.
Dr. John Oschner does not know a Judyth Vary Baker nor has he never heard of
her. He checked not only the Oschner files and records archives, but he
also contacted the Reilly Coffee Company but to no avail. In my last
communication with Dr. Oschner, over a year ago, he asked me to get her
social security number and that this might be helpful in finding out if
Baker was ever a patient at their clinic. I haven't felt it was necessary
to bother this gentleman any further. I'm sure he has more important things
to do. I do.
Take it from there. At least you know the truth.
Over and out.
Bob Vernon
aka Dr. Truth

Talk about hoodwinking people, Bob did enough of that to outdo Judyth.
He's the professional wrestling producer who gave us James Files and it
took him 12 years to realize how stupid he was to fall for the phony
story. Bite marks on the shell as a calling card? That's almost as bad as
the Humes ICE BULLET THEORY.

The SOAP BOX is now yours!

[Mark OBLAZNEY]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by j***@gmail.com
Admittedly I'm 12 years late to this conversation. The trouble I'm having
is wondering why it is so important for some people to discredit Judyth
Baker. She has a story and she is telling it. It's no different for your
story to be told, or the 1200 other conspiracy theories out there. What
difference does it make if she is telling the truth or not? Why is it

1. So many people were duped by her and they want revenge.
2. Her story is designed to exonnerate Oswald.

Post by j***@gmail.com
that important to any of you? She either is or isn't lying. Whoop tee

The real world is not that simple. As various CIA officers have pointed
out, you can't LIE all the time or your propaganda won't work. You need
to cleverly mix in your lies with truth.

Post by j***@gmail.com
doo! Why her? Why spend your precious (and apparently God-given talent
time) to discredit Judyth if you feel so adamantly confident that you -
and you alone - have the real story. Why not just convince us of the real
story instead of slinging mud at her?

The idea is that she claims to be the only person who really knew Lee
Harvey Oswald and what he was really up to. His mind, his motives. Not
his brother, mother, wife or friends. ONLY she knows she says.

Post by j***@gmail.com
I suspect mud-slinging is always used by competitors, like yourself, who
have nothing else to offer. And I don't see Judyth trying to sling mud in
your direction at all. So I'm pretty certain she doesn't have a chip on
her shoulder.

She has something, but it's not a chip.

Post by j***@gmail.com
Why don't you go about your business and let your results rest on their
own laurels without trying to smear someone else whose story doesn't jive
with yours? Frankly that behavior is more suspect of lying than Judyth's.

Not sure what you mean. It's not always easy to separate the lies from the
truth. You have to do real, actual research. Let me give you an example.
Judyth told an interesting story about writing a letter to President
Kennedy. Her supporters just accepted that without asking for any
supportive proof. Her detractors just said she was lying and that it was
just another example of how crazy she is, just making up things from her
imagination. Not one of the WC defenders nor conspiracy kooks did any
actual research to see if it was true. So I did!
I went to the JFK Library and searched through hundreds of letters until I
found the letter Judyth wrote to President Kennedy. It was not as she
remembered it so many years later. You judge for yourself what were lies
http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/JV2-14-61.gif

Post by j***@gmail.com
Finding out the real story behind our president's assassination would
certainly be a wonderful sideline, a brief enjoyment of enlightenment
during these journeys through this life. But never forget that our

I guess history can be a fun hobby if it's not your country.
But this IS my country and I care what happened to it.

Post by j***@gmail.com
destination is the important thing, not the flowers we smell along the
way. When we are all collected in the afterlife these investigations and
truths will be so far less important than you feel they are now, yet their
truths will be available to us all. Do you want to be the one who was
wrong then? If I personally am wrong than I hope to at least have the
saving grace of not having verbally attacked others for what they
believed. Or did. Care and respect during life is important for
happiness in eternity. And if you don't believe in the afterlife than I
certainly pity your soul. For if I am wrong pity would not be needed.
But if I am right, then you will eventually believe me.

I verbally attack people when they do or say stupid things on purpose.
If they make an innocent mistake I can forgive them.

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by Dr. Truth
I promised myself and others that I would not make any more public comments
about anything to do with the JFK assassination and I plan to do that but I
do feel that I need to make one more comment before I get back to the
business at hand and that is to continue our private investigation on James
Files, Tosh Plumlee and Chauncey Holt and to publish ONLY the truth to the
public as is my right as per my assertion of my legal rights to reclaim my
property after a contract breach by Wim Dankbaar.
I am sick and tired of hearing about Judyth Baker for she is simply not
telling the truth and every piece of credible research and investigation
that I have seen, and investigation and research that I have personaly done
myself, all indicates she is bogus. Yet, after being told endlessly and
presented with fact after fact that Baker is bogus, we still see Wim
Dankbaar continuing to perpetrate the Baker hoax as he has attempted to do
since he first started trying to convince me she was real.
Forget the fact that Dankbaar has breached his agreement with me, slandered
and libeled my name, lied to me and my family and caused us irreparable
harm, committed both civil tort and criminal offenses against me, converted
my property, conspired with other persons to convert my property, and lied
to 21 other decent fine Americans also causing them irreparable damages,
cast all of that aside for I have lawyers that handle thieves and liars like
him and his store bought friends.
What is important is the truth and that's all you've ever gotten from me and
all you will ever get.
The following information was received by me in the last 24 hours. I am not
at liberty to tell you who sent this to me but I have turned this info in
its original signed form over to my attorney as further proof of the
continued lies told about me by Dankbaar and now by one of his partners in
crime, Judyth Baker. The document speaks for itself and I can assure you,
it came from a very credible JFK researcher who has worked for years to get
to the truth about the murder of JFK, a very well respected person in the
JFK Research community. Let the documents below speak for themselves for
______________________________________________________________
Robert Baker told me on the phone that he sent her a box(s?) of her stuff
that evidently contained many items from their married years together. Like
every little scrap of paper. His theory, which makes sense, is that she has
patched together her story from this material. But, he does NOT wish to get
into this with her any further -- as you can imagine.
For example, she showed me pages of love letters with the corners torn off
where the Dear " _ _ _" would be. She claimed they were letters to L-E-E but
I suspect they were letters to her husband B-O-B (same spacing). And why
would she have the letters she supposedly sent or gave to Lee Oswald? Didn't
they see each other in person? Did he give them back to her? What bull. Her
husband traveled and she wrote to him.
Anyway, it doesn't matter because she will make something up to explain it
all away and I don't have the time for her. It is absolutely amazing to me
that anyone believes her.
By the way, it wasn't Debra Conway that investigated her for 60 Minutes and
convinced
them she is bogus. A very, very smart woman attorney did that and is proud
of it. Don Hewett and co. had no idea how easy it was to put together a JFK
assassination story from books and the internet -- and was SO impressed with
Judyth's story. Give me a break.
(Believe me, she was totally and completely
checked out.)
And I think you saw a copy of one of the letters with the corner torn off,
didn't you? Another question: She says she threw away things and never
talked about her experiences with Oswald, but she kept these letters? What
would Bob say if he found them?? Oops.
But seriously, please accept that you will never have the last word with
Judyth. She will never stop. She has a fan club now and loves all this
attention. She adores being the victim and causing all this controversy.
Anyway, that's my 2???.
_________________________________________________________________
Anyone who can clearly understand the English language should easily be able
to ascertain the truth stated in these emails above.
If you need any other proof, please understand that I am from New Orleans
and I know the Oschner family, particularly Dr. John Oschner, son of Alton
Oschner who is now in his late 70s or early 80s and is retired, one of the
most respected citizens and doctors in the city, if not the world. I have
personally talked to Dr. Oschner two times about Judyth Vary Baker. Dr.
Oschner has no reason to lie and let me assure you it is common knowledge in
New Orleans about his father's and his activities throughout the years for
it is cocktail party talk in uptown New Orleans and you can take that to the
bank. Dr. John Oschner was heavily involved in all experiments involving
his father's cancer research throughout the years, covert and otherwise, and
is still as sharp as a tack even in his golden years. Dr. John Oschner knew
every single cancer researcher involved with his father and their
experiments through the years, many of them he hired, most of which HE
SUPERVISED. What is critical here is that Dr. John Oschner had hands on
daily experience with everything that went on in his father's medical
research.
Dr. John Oschner does not know a Judyth Vary Baker nor has he never heard of
her. He checked not only the Oschner files and records archives, but he
also contacted the Reilly Coffee Company but to no avail. In my last
communication with Dr. Oschner, over a year ago, he asked me to get her
social security number and that this might be helpful in finding out if
Baker was ever a patient at their clinic. I haven't felt it was necessary
to bother this gentleman any further. I'm sure he has more important things
to do. I do.
Take it from there. At least you know the truth.
Over and out.
Bob Vernon
aka Dr. Truth

Talk about hoodwinking people, Bob did enough of that to outdo Judyth.
He's the professional wrestling producer who gave us James Files and it
took him 12 years to realize how stupid he was to fall for the phony
story. Bite marks on the shell as a calling card? That's almost as bad as
the Humes ICE BULLET THEORY.
The SOAP BOX is now yours!

Well……. it looks like they'll have something to read at
Judyth's OzzFests. Can coon?

[Mark OBLAZNEY]

Post by Mark OBLAZNEY

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by j***@gmail.com
Admittedly I'm 12 years late to this conversation. The trouble I'm having
is wondering why it is so important for some people to discredit Judyth
Baker. She has a story and she is telling it. It's no different for your
story to be told, or the 1200 other conspiracy theories out there. What
difference does it make if she is telling the truth or not? Why is it

1. So many people were duped by her and they want revenge.
2. Her story is designed to exonnerate Oswald.

Post by j***@gmail.com
that important to any of you? She either is or isn't lying. Whoop tee

The real world is not that simple. As various CIA officers have pointed
out, you can't LIE all the time or your propaganda won't work. You need
to cleverly mix in your lies with truth.

Post by j***@gmail.com
doo! Why her? Why spend your precious (and apparently God-given talent
time) to discredit Judyth if you feel so adamantly confident that you -
and you alone - have the real story. Why not just convince us of the real
story instead of slinging mud at her?

The idea is that she claims to be the only person who really knew Lee
Harvey Oswald and what he was really up to. His mind, his motives. Not
his brother, mother, wife or friends. ONLY she knows she says.

Post by j***@gmail.com
I suspect mud-slinging is always used by competitors, like yourself, who
have nothing else to offer. And I don't see Judyth trying to sling mud in
your direction at all. So I'm pretty certain she doesn't have a chip on
her shoulder.

She has something, but it's not a chip.

Post by j***@gmail.com
Why don't you go about your business and let your results rest on their
own laurels without trying to smear someone else whose story doesn't jive
with yours? Frankly that behavior is more suspect of lying than Judyth's.

Not sure what you mean. It's not always easy to separate the lies from the
truth. You have to do real, actual research. Let me give you an example.
Judyth told an interesting story about writing a letter to President
Kennedy. Her supporters just accepted that without asking for any
supportive proof. Her detractors just said she was lying and that it was
just another example of how crazy she is, just making up things from her
imagination. Not one of the WC defenders nor conspiracy kooks did any
actual research to see if it was true. So I did!
I went to the JFK Library and searched through hundreds of letters until I
found the letter Judyth wrote to President Kennedy. It was not as she
remembered it so many years later. You judge for yourself what were lies
http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/JV2-14-61.gif

Post by j***@gmail.com
Finding out the real story behind our president's assassination would
certainly be a wonderful sideline, a brief enjoyment of enlightenment
during these journeys through this life. But never forget that our

I guess history can be a fun hobby if it's not your country.
But this IS my country and I care what happened to it.

Post by j***@gmail.com
destination is the important thing, not the flowers we smell along the
way. When we are all collected in the afterlife these investigations and
truths will be so far less important than you feel they are now, yet their
truths will be available to us all. Do you want to be the one who was
wrong then? If I personally am wrong than I hope to at least have the
saving grace of not having verbally attacked others for what they
believed. Or did. Care and respect during life is important for
happiness in eternity. And if you don't believe in the afterlife than I
certainly pity your soul. For if I am wrong pity would not be needed.
But if I am right, then you will eventually believe me.

I verbally attack people when they do or say stupid things on purpose.
If they make an innocent mistake I can forgive them.

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by Dr. Truth
I promised myself and others that I would not make any more public comments
about anything to do with the JFK assassination and I plan to do that but I
do feel that I need to make one more comment before I get back to the
business at hand and that is to continue our private investigation on James
Files, Tosh Plumlee and Chauncey Holt and to publish ONLY the truth to the
public as is my right as per my assertion of my legal rights to reclaim my
property after a contract breach by Wim Dankbaar.
I am sick and tired of hearing about Judyth Baker for she is simply not
telling the truth and every piece of credible research and investigation
that I have seen, and investigation and research that I have personaly done
myself, all indicates she is bogus. Yet, after being told endlessly and
presented with fact after fact that Baker is bogus, we still see Wim
Dankbaar continuing to perpetrate the Baker hoax as he has attempted to do
since he first started trying to convince me she was real.
Forget the fact that Dankbaar has breached his agreement with me, slandered
and libeled my name, lied to me and my family and caused us irreparable
harm, committed both civil tort and criminal offenses against me, converted
my property, conspired with other persons to convert my property, and lied
to 21 other decent fine Americans also causing them irreparable damages,
cast all of that aside for I have lawyers that handle thieves and liars like
him and his store bought friends.
What is important is the truth and that's all you've ever gotten from me and
all you will ever get.
The following information was received by me in the last 24 hours. I am not
at liberty to tell you who sent this to me but I have turned this info in
its original signed form over to my attorney as further proof of the
continued lies told about me by Dankbaar and now by one of his partners in
crime, Judyth Baker. The document speaks for itself and I can assure you,
it came from a very credible JFK researcher who has worked for years to get
to the truth about the murder of JFK, a very well respected person in the
JFK Research community. Let the documents below speak for themselves for
______________________________________________________________
Robert Baker told me on the phone that he sent her a box(s?) of her stuff
that evidently contained many items from their married years together. Like
every little scrap of paper. His theory, which makes sense, is that she has
patched together her story from this material. But, he does NOT wish to get
into this with her any further -- as you can imagine.
For example, she showed me pages of love letters with the corners torn off
where the Dear " _ _ _" would be. She claimed they were letters to L-E-E but
I suspect they were letters to her husband B-O-B (same spacing). And why
would she have the letters she supposedly sent or gave to Lee Oswald? Didn't
they see each other in person? Did he give them back to her? What bull. Her
husband traveled and she wrote to him.
Anyway, it doesn't matter because she will make something up to explain it
all away and I don't have the time for her. It is absolutely amazing to me
that anyone believes her.
By the way, it wasn't Debra Conway that investigated her for 60 Minutes and
convinced
them she is bogus. A very, very smart woman attorney did that and is proud
of it. Don Hewett and co. had no idea how easy it was to put together a JFK
assassination story from books and the internet -- and was SO impressed with
Judyth's story. Give me a break.
(Believe me, she was totally and completely
checked out.)
And I think you saw a copy of one of the letters with the corner torn off,
didn't you? Another question: She says she threw away things and never
talked about her experiences with Oswald, but she kept these letters? What
would Bob say if he found them?? Oops.
But seriously, please accept that you will never have the last word with
Judyth. She will never stop. She has a fan club now and loves all this
attention. She adores being the victim and causing all this controversy.
Anyway, that's my 2???.
_________________________________________________________________
Anyone who can clearly understand the English language should easily be able
to ascertain the truth stated in these emails above.
If you need any other proof, please understand that I am from New Orleans
and I know the Oschner family, particularly Dr. John Oschner, son of Alton
Oschner who is now in his late 70s or early 80s and is retired, one of the
most respected citizens and doctors in the city, if not the world. I have
personally talked to Dr. Oschner two times about Judyth Vary Baker. Dr.
Oschner has no reason to lie and let me assure you it is common knowledge in
New Orleans about his father's and his activities throughout the years for
it is cocktail party talk in uptown New Orleans and you can take that to the
bank. Dr. John Oschner was heavily involved in all experiments involving
his father's cancer research throughout the years, covert and otherwise, and
is still as sharp as a tack even in his golden years. Dr. John Oschner knew
every single cancer researcher involved with his father and their
experiments through the years, many of them he hired, most of which HE
SUPERVISED. What is critical here is that Dr. John Oschner had hands on
daily experience with everything that went on in his father's medical
research.
Dr. John Oschner does not know a Judyth Vary Baker nor has he never heard of
her. He checked not only the Oschner files and records archives, but he
also contacted the Reilly Coffee Company but to no avail. In my last
communication with Dr. Oschner, over a year ago, he asked me to get her
social security number and that this might be helpful in finding out if
Baker was ever a patient at their clinic. I haven't felt it was necessary
to bother this gentleman any further. I'm sure he has more important things
to do. I do.
Take it from there. At least you know the truth.
Over and out.
Bob Vernon
aka Dr. Truth

Talk about hoodwinking people, Bob did enough of that to outdo Judyth.
He's the professional wrestling producer who gave us James Files and it
took him 12 years to realize how stupid he was to fall for the phony
story. Bite marks on the shell as a calling card? That's almost as bad as
the Humes ICE BULLET THEORY.
The SOAP BOX is now yours!

Well……. it looks like they'll have something to read at
Judyth's OzzFests. Can coon?

SHE EVEN WROTE TO THE PRESIDENT IN ALL CAPS TOO !! SAVE JUDYTH !!!