Discussion:
Breaking down the Zapruder frames
(too old to reply)
John Corbett
2020-12-16 02:57:47 UTC
Permalink
The FBI determine that Zapruder's camera ran at an average speed of 18.3
frames per second. Rounding out to four decimal places that comes to an
average of .0546 seconds per frame. However, each frame is not exposed for
that length of time. Movie film is simply a string of rapid fire still
photos which require a continuous series of starts and stops with the
frame being exposed during the stops with no exposure being made while the
film advances to expose the next frame. I think I read a long time ago
that each frame is exposed for 60% of the .0546 seconds follow by a gap
of 40% of the .0546 seconds. I can't find a reference to confirm if that
is true or whether this is just a faulty memory. Assuming it is true and
again rounding out to four decimal places, that means a frame is exposed
for .0328 seconds and advanced for .0219 seconds during which the camera
is not recording the action. Because the bullets would require only a
couple milliseconds to pass through the bodies of JFK and JBC, that means
that either of the shots which struck JFK could have hit him during the
exposure of a frame or during the gap between frames. The head shot could
have struck either during the exposure of frame 313 or in the gap between
312 and 313 with frame 313 showing us only the aftermath of the strike. It
is less definite as to when the single bullet struck and if it did strike
during the exposure of a frame, we don't know if it struck early during
the exposure, late or somewhere in the middle. This makes it a bit more
difficult to determine precisely when the shot was fired and when it
struck. We are left to analyze clues to determine the best fit for those
clues. The clues we have are the bulging of the JBC's jacket, and the
jiggle of Zapruder's camera at frame 227. The jiggle from head shot
occurred about 7 frames after the shot was fired. Since Zapruder was a
constant distance from the rifle, we could expect a similar amount of
frames between the shot being fired and the jiggle. That would indicate
the single bullet shot was likely fired during Z220 or the gap before or
after the exposure of that frame striking a couple frames later. The
bulging of JBC's jacket at Z224 happened after the bullet passed through
it. What we aren't sure of is how much of lag there was between the bullet
passing through and the jacket bulging. It seems to indicate a strike
about 223. The simultaneous reaction by JFK and JBC at 226 would have
occurred roughly 3-4 frames after the bullet passed through them. That
reaction could have begun in the 225-226 gap, late in the exposure of 226
or somewhere in between. What we are left with are three approximations
and it seems to me the best fit for all three of these approximations
would be the bullet strike either in the gap between 222-223 or early in
the 223 exposure.

Determining the precise instant of the single bullet strike is not
necessary for proving the validity of the SBT but it needs to be shown
that there is a plausible time frame for when that bullet struck. It think
the above analysis accomplishes that. In 1964 the WC gave us a range of
210-225 for when the single bullet could have struck. Given the advantage
of time and better technology, I think we can establish a much tighter
time frame for when that bullet struck.

I would be interested to see how others analyze these clues.
Brian Roselle
2020-12-16 13:03:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Corbett
The FBI determine that Zapruder's camera ran at an average speed of 18.3
frames per second. Rounding out to four decimal places that comes to an
average of .0546 seconds per frame. However, each frame is not exposed for
that length of time. Movie film is simply a string of rapid fire still
photos which require a continuous series of starts and stops with the
frame being exposed during the stops with no exposure being made while the
film advances to expose the next frame. I think I read a long time ago
that each frame is exposed for 60% of the .0546 seconds follow by a gap
of 40% of the .0546 seconds. I can't find a reference to confirm if that
is true or whether this is just a faulty memory. Assuming it is true and
again rounding out to four decimal places, that means a frame is exposed
for .0328 seconds and advanced for .0219 seconds during which the camera
is not recording the action. Because the bullets would require only a
couple milliseconds to pass through the bodies of JFK and JBC, that means
that either of the shots which struck JFK could have hit him during the
exposure of a frame or during the gap between frames. The head shot could
have struck either during the exposure of frame 313 or in the gap between
312 and 313 with frame 313 showing us only the aftermath of the strike. It
is less definite as to when the single bullet struck and if it did strike
during the exposure of a frame, we don't know if it struck early during
the exposure, late or somewhere in the middle. This makes it a bit more
difficult to determine precisely when the shot was fired and when it
struck. We are left to analyze clues to determine the best fit for those
clues. The clues we have are the bulging of the JBC's jacket, and the
jiggle of Zapruder's camera at frame 227. The jiggle from head shot
occurred about 7 frames after the shot was fired. Since Zapruder was a
constant distance from the rifle, we could expect a similar amount of
frames between the shot being fired and the jiggle. That would indicate
the single bullet shot was likely fired during Z220 or the gap before or
after the exposure of that frame striking a couple frames later. The
bulging of JBC's jacket at Z224 happened after the bullet passed through
it. What we aren't sure of is how much of lag there was between the bullet
passing through and the jacket bulging. It seems to indicate a strike
about 223. The simultaneous reaction by JFK and JBC at 226 would have
occurred roughly 3-4 frames after the bullet passed through them. That
reaction could have begun in the 225-226 gap, late in the exposure of 226
or somewhere in between. What we are left with are three approximations
and it seems to me the best fit for all three of these approximations
would be the bullet strike either in the gap between 222-223 or early in
the 223 exposure.
Determining the precise instant of the single bullet strike is not
necessary for proving the validity of the SBT but it needs to be shown
that there is a plausible time frame for when that bullet struck. It think
the above analysis accomplishes that. In 1964 the WC gave us a range of
210-225 for when the single bullet could have struck. Given the advantage
of time and better technology, I think we can establish a much tighter
time frame for when that bullet struck.
I would be interested to see how others analyze these clues.
I think that looks like a pretty good analysis to me.

Although I haven’t studied the second shot that much, I’ve
read up some on reaction times etc. One thing that I have noticed is that
there appears to be a commonality in the fastest human reaction times
being around 0.2 seconds. For example seeing the larger onset of a
startle reaction is typically around .2 to .25 seconds. I think one
estimate had Zapruder with a startle reaction of about 0.21 seconds.
Voluntary reaction times are a function of expectedness and the fastest
voluntary reaction times, when the stimulus is highly expected is also
close to 0.2 seconds. I recall that if a sprinter reacts to a starter gun
in 0.1 seconds, he is disqualified as that is deemed too quick and was the
result of anticipation (something like that happened to me in a Nebraska
high school district track meet).

So I’m wondering if the human wiring of reactions is similar in
the case of a significant wounding, perhaps having a 0.2 seconds reaction
time. If so that would fit your model pretty good of a bullet passing
through a person and seeing them react ~0.2 seconds later.

Just a thought.
John Corbett
2020-12-16 19:30:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Roselle
Post by John Corbett
The FBI determine that Zapruder's camera ran at an average speed of 18.3
frames per second. Rounding out to four decimal places that comes to an
average of .0546 seconds per frame. However, each frame is not exposed for
that length of time. Movie film is simply a string of rapid fire still
photos which require a continuous series of starts and stops with the
frame being exposed during the stops with no exposure being made while the
film advances to expose the next frame. I think I read a long time ago
that each frame is exposed for 60% of the .0546 seconds follow by a gap
of 40% of the .0546 seconds. I can't find a reference to confirm if that
is true or whether this is just a faulty memory. Assuming it is true and
again rounding out to four decimal places, that means a frame is exposed
for .0328 seconds and advanced for .0219 seconds during which the camera
is not recording the action. Because the bullets would require only a
couple milliseconds to pass through the bodies of JFK and JBC, that means
that either of the shots which struck JFK could have hit him during the
exposure of a frame or during the gap between frames. The head shot could
have struck either during the exposure of frame 313 or in the gap between
312 and 313 with frame 313 showing us only the aftermath of the strike. It
is less definite as to when the single bullet struck and if it did strike
during the exposure of a frame, we don't know if it struck early during
the exposure, late or somewhere in the middle. This makes it a bit more
difficult to determine precisely when the shot was fired and when it
struck. We are left to analyze clues to determine the best fit for those
clues. The clues we have are the bulging of the JBC's jacket, and the
jiggle of Zapruder's camera at frame 227. The jiggle from head shot
occurred about 7 frames after the shot was fired. Since Zapruder was a
constant distance from the rifle, we could expect a similar amount of
frames between the shot being fired and the jiggle. That would indicate
the single bullet shot was likely fired during Z220 or the gap before or
after the exposure of that frame striking a couple frames later. The
bulging of JBC's jacket at Z224 happened after the bullet passed through
it. What we aren't sure of is how much of lag there was between the bullet
passing through and the jacket bulging. It seems to indicate a strike
about 223. The simultaneous reaction by JFK and JBC at 226 would have
occurred roughly 3-4 frames after the bullet passed through them. That
reaction could have begun in the 225-226 gap, late in the exposure of 226
or somewhere in between. What we are left with are three approximations
and it seems to me the best fit for all three of these approximations
would be the bullet strike either in the gap between 222-223 or early in
the 223 exposure.
Determining the precise instant of the single bullet strike is not
necessary for proving the validity of the SBT but it needs to be shown
that there is a plausible time frame for when that bullet struck. It think
the above analysis accomplishes that. In 1964 the WC gave us a range of
210-225 for when the single bullet could have struck. Given the advantage
of time and better technology, I think we can establish a much tighter
time frame for when that bullet struck.
I would be interested to see how others analyze these clues.
I think that looks like a pretty good analysis to me.
Although I haven’t studied the second shot that much, I’ve
read up some on reaction times etc. One thing that I have noticed is that
there appears to be a commonality in the fastest human reaction times
being around 0.2 seconds. For example seeing the larger onset of a
startle reaction is typically around .2 to .25 seconds. I think one
estimate had Zapruder with a startle reaction of about 0.21 seconds.
Voluntary reaction times are a function of expectedness and the fastest
voluntary reaction times, when the stimulus is highly expected is also
close to 0.2 seconds. I recall that if a sprinter reacts to a starter gun
in 0.1 seconds, he is disqualified as that is deemed too quick and was the
result of anticipation (something like that happened to me in a Nebraska
high school district track meet).
Where did you go to school in Nebraska? I attended Creighton Prep my
freshman year before my dad took a job at Ohio State. I ran on the
freshman track team. One of the most humiliating beat downs I ever
experienced was running the anchor leg of an 880 relay against who I think
was probably Johnny Rogers. He and I were in the same year and it was
against Omaha Tech which is where he went to school. Of course this was 6
years before he would become Nebraska's first Heisman Trophy winner so I
can't be positive it was the same guy, but it all fits.
Post by Brian Roselle
So I’m wondering if the human wiring of reactions is similar in
the case of a significant wounding, perhaps having a 0.2 seconds reaction
time. If so that would fit your model pretty good of a bullet passing
through a person and seeing them react ~0.2 seconds later.
Just a thought.
At a ,mock trial conducted by the ABA, a neurologist testified that a
startle reaction requires about 200 milliseconds which is 0.2 seconds. A
single Zapruder frame is about 55 milliseconds so a startle reaction would
require a little less than four frames. If the Z226 reaction began late in
that frame's exposure, it could mean a strike early in the exposure of
Z223. If the reaction began either early in Z226 or in the 225-226 gap,
that would put the strike either at Z222 or in the 222-223 gap.

The one factor I cannot find data for is how long of a time lag there
would be between the bullet passing through JBC's jacket and the jacket
bulging out at Z224. These would not be simultaneous as some people
believe. There is a slight lag time between those events. I've seen slow
motion footage of bullets passing through other materials and the bullet
exits first and any material pushed out by the bullet follows in its wake.
I just don't know how long of a gap there would be. The bulging of JBC's
jacket likely occurred in the 223-224 gap because we don't see any white
while that frame was exposed. That seems like it would fit with a bullet
strike in the 222-223 time frame. I don't think we can pin in down any
more than that.
John Corbett
2020-12-16 19:30:51 UTC
Permalink
I'm trying to figure just what Zapruder's reaction time would be. I'm am
forced to use ballpark figures because I don't have specific data. I'm
sure somewhere Zapruder's distance from the sniper's nest is documented
but I'm going to guesstimate 250 feet because JFK was 266 at the head shot
and Zapruder I believe was slightly closer. Also, the speed of sound
varies with temperature. I'm going to use 1125 fps which I think is pretty
close. using those figures. that works out to .2222...seconds for the
sound of the head shot to reach him. Now, when to start the clock? My
previous analysis indicated the shot was fired from late 310 to early 311.
I'll arbitrarily say it was the 310-311 gap. Once the sound reached
Zapruder, it would take him about another 200 milliseconds or .2 seconds
for his startle reaction. Add that to the amount of time it would take the
sound to reach him and we could expect a reaction .4222....seconds after
the shot was fired. Divide that by the length of one frame which is 1/18.3
and we get 7.7266666...... frames for a reaction by Zapruder. Starting
from the 310-311 gap that takes us right to frame 318 which is the one in
which the blurring began. It looks like it lasted about three frames.

Loading Image...
Loading Image...
Loading Image...
Loading Image...
Loading Image...

One variable which we can only guess at is how much the sight of seeing
JFK's head explode through his viewfinder would contribute to the camera
jiggle. He would have seen that a split second before hearing the sound.

Because Zapruder's distance from the rifle remained constant, we can
expect a similar reaction time for all three shots. It appears to me we
have three frame blurring from 158-160 and 227-229. Take a look and see if
you agree.

Loading Image...
Loading Image...
Loading Image...
Loading Image...
Loading Image...

Loading Image...
Loading Image...
Loading Image...
Loading Image...
Loading Image...

What I find interesting is that Zapruder's startle reaction at frame 227
is one frame after the startle reaction exhibited by JFK and JBC. The one
frame difference can be attributed to JFK and JBC reacting to the bullet
impact which they would have felt a split second before the sound of the
shot reached Zarpruder. It all fits.
Brian Roselle
2020-12-17 03:26:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Corbett
I'm trying to figure just what Zapruder's reaction time would be. I'm am
forced to use ballpark figures because I don't have specific data. I'm
sure somewhere Zapruder's distance from the sniper's nest is documented
but I'm going to guesstimate 250 feet because JFK was 266 at the head shot
and Zapruder I believe was slightly closer. Also, the speed of sound
varies with temperature. I'm going to use 1125 fps which I think is pretty
close. using those figures. that works out to .2222...seconds for the
sound of the head shot to reach him. Now, when to start the clock? My
previous analysis indicated the shot was fired from late 310 to early 311.
I'll arbitrarily say it was the 310-311 gap. Once the sound reached
Zapruder, it would take him about another 200 milliseconds or .2 seconds
for his startle reaction. Add that to the amount of time it would take the
sound to reach him and we could expect a reaction .4222....seconds after
the shot was fired. Divide that by the length of one frame which is 1/18.3
and we get 7.7266666...... frames for a reaction by Zapruder. Starting
from the 310-311 gap that takes us right to frame 318 which is the one in
which the blurring began. It looks like it lasted about three frames.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z317.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z318.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z319.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z320.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z321.jpg
One variable which we can only guess at is how much the sight of seeing
JFK's head explode through his viewfinder would contribute to the camera
jiggle. He would have seen that a split second before hearing the sound.
Because Zapruder's distance from the rifle remained constant, we can
expect a similar reaction time for all three shots. It appears to me we
have three frame blurring from 158-160 and 227-229. Take a look and see if
you agree.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z157.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z158.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z159.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z160.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z161.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z226.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z227.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z228.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z229.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z230.jpg
What I find interesting is that Zapruder's startle reaction at frame 227
is one frame after the startle reaction exhibited by JFK and JBC. The one
frame difference can be attributed to JFK and JBC reacting to the bullet
impact which they would have felt a split second before the sound of the
shot reached Zarpruder. It all fits.
I know I have some physical reference data (distances, bullet velocity
estimates, etc) on that day’s events that I’d be more than
willing to see if I can dig up and help you on your second shot work in
any way I can. My filing system is not that great but I’ll see
what I can come up with and definitely let you know if I can find anything
that might interest you.

Well, this is funny, I just mentioned in another post something on
coincidences (implying one in particular was unlikely), but here on your
last post one immediately jumps up to bite me. You ran on an 880 yard
relay in high school in Nebraska. Regarding that Nebraska high school
track meet I mentioned where my reactions to starting were a little too
fast, that meet was a district meet near Omaha, and I think there were
some Omaha schools involved. It was also on an 880 yard relay race, but I
ran the starting leg because of fast, but occasionally apparently illegal,
starts. If only it was my relay team that beat you down, that would really
have made my day today. Unfortunately it’s unlikely that it was as
I was in a Lincoln Class B school at the time (spring 1971).
John Corbett
2020-12-17 15:45:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Roselle
Post by John Corbett
I'm trying to figure just what Zapruder's reaction time would be. I'm am
forced to use ballpark figures because I don't have specific data. I'm
sure somewhere Zapruder's distance from the sniper's nest is documented
but I'm going to guesstimate 250 feet because JFK was 266 at the head shot
and Zapruder I believe was slightly closer. Also, the speed of sound
varies with temperature. I'm going to use 1125 fps which I think is pretty
close. using those figures. that works out to .2222...seconds for the
sound of the head shot to reach him. Now, when to start the clock? My
previous analysis indicated the shot was fired from late 310 to early 311.
I'll arbitrarily say it was the 310-311 gap. Once the sound reached
Zapruder, it would take him about another 200 milliseconds or .2 seconds
for his startle reaction. Add that to the amount of time it would take the
sound to reach him and we could expect a reaction .4222....seconds after
the shot was fired. Divide that by the length of one frame which is 1/18.3
and we get 7.7266666...... frames for a reaction by Zapruder. Starting
from the 310-311 gap that takes us right to frame 318 which is the one in
which the blurring began. It looks like it lasted about three frames.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z317.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z318.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z319.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z320.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z321.jpg
One variable which we can only guess at is how much the sight of seeing
JFK's head explode through his viewfinder would contribute to the camera
jiggle. He would have seen that a split second before hearing the sound.
Because Zapruder's distance from the rifle remained constant, we can
expect a similar reaction time for all three shots. It appears to me we
have three frame blurring from 158-160 and 227-229. Take a look and see if
you agree.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z157.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z158.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z159.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z160.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z161.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z226.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z227.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z228.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z229.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z230.jpg
What I find interesting is that Zapruder's startle reaction at frame 227
is one frame after the startle reaction exhibited by JFK and JBC. The one
frame difference can be attributed to JFK and JBC reacting to the bullet
impact which they would have felt a split second before the sound of the
shot reached Zarpruder. It all fits.
I know I have some physical reference data (distances, bullet velocity
estimates, etc) on that day’s events that I’d be more than
willing to see if I can dig up and help you on your second shot work in
any way I can. My filing system is not that great but I’ll see
what I can come up with and definitely let you know if I can find anything
that might interest you.
For this exercise, I think approximations make the point. I'll redo the
calculations if you can come up with more precise numbers, but I don't
think it will significantly alter the results.
Post by Brian Roselle
Well, this is funny, I just mentioned in another post something on
coincidences (implying one in particular was unlikely), but here on your
last post one immediately jumps up to bite me. You ran on an 880 yard
relay in high school in Nebraska. Regarding that Nebraska high school
track meet I mentioned where my reactions to starting were a little too
fast, that meet was a district meet near Omaha, and I think there were
some Omaha schools involved. It was also on an 880 yard relay race, but I
ran the starting leg because of fast, but occasionally apparently illegal,
starts. If only it was my relay team that beat you down, that would really
have made my day today. Unfortunately it’s unlikely that it was as
I was in a Lincoln Class B school at the time (spring 1971).
I was a middle distance runner. I had tried out to be a sprinter but was
only the fourth fastest and in most meets, we only entered 3 sprinters per
event. The reason they put more on the anchor leg was because I would be
training with the distance runners and couldn't practice passing the
baton so the freshman coach thought it would be better if I only had to do
one pass and thought it would be better for me to take the baton rather
than pass it off. As I remember the Omaha Tech team had about a two stride
lead as I got the baton. Did you ever have a dream where you were trying
to run as fast as you could be it felt like you were wearing lead shoes.
That was the feeling I had. The runner who I think was Johnny Rodgers was
moving away from me like I was standing still. I think he hit the tape
about the time I was making the final turn. It might not have been quite
that bad but it seemed like it to me. I still remember the freshman coach
doubling over with laughter after I got to the finish line. I think he
knew it was coming because he had seen what this kid had been doing in
the individual events. That was spring of 1966 and I graduated 1969
which is the same year Johnny Rodgers graduated from Tech. My memory is
that the runner I ran against looked very similar to Rodgers. Of course
I mostly saw him from behind. I just remember thinking the first time I
saw him interviewed after he won the Heisman in 1972 was that he looked
like the guy I had run against and I wondered if he was one and the same.
I tried to look up his history on Wikipedia but it only covers his college
years and beyond. I do know that he went to Omaha Tech and that was the
school we were running against that day.

Just last night I found on Youtube the ESPN program from 2001 in which
they did a 30th anniversary retrospective on the 1971 Nebraska-Oklahoma
game dubbed the Game of the Century. Rodgers made that incredible punt
return touchdown on Oklahoma's first punt that in essence proved to be the
difference in the game. Just last year an ESPN panel voted that game as
the greatest in the history of college football and I concur. I would go
so far as to say it is my favorite sporting event of all time. It saddens
me to see what has become of Nebraska football in recent years after 40
years of dominance. I did follow the Buckeyes after my dad took the job at
Ohio State but my heart remained with the Huskers.
Brian Roselle
2020-12-19 01:52:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Corbett
Post by Brian Roselle
Post by John Corbett
I'm trying to figure just what Zapruder's reaction time would be. I'm am
forced to use ballpark figures because I don't have specific data. I'm
sure somewhere Zapruder's distance from the sniper's nest is documented
but I'm going to guesstimate 250 feet because JFK was 266 at the head shot
and Zapruder I believe was slightly closer. Also, the speed of sound
varies with temperature. I'm going to use 1125 fps which I think is pretty
close. using those figures. that works out to .2222...seconds for the
sound of the head shot to reach him. Now, when to start the clock? My
previous analysis indicated the shot was fired from late 310 to early 311.
I'll arbitrarily say it was the 310-311 gap. Once the sound reached
Zapruder, it would take him about another 200 milliseconds or .2 seconds
for his startle reaction. Add that to the amount of time it would take the
sound to reach him and we could expect a reaction .4222....seconds after
the shot was fired. Divide that by the length of one frame which is 1/18.3
and we get 7.7266666...... frames for a reaction by Zapruder. Starting
from the 310-311 gap that takes us right to frame 318 which is the one in
which the blurring began. It looks like it lasted about three frames.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z317.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z318.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z319.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z320.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z321.jpg
One variable which we can only guess at is how much the sight of seeing
JFK's head explode through his viewfinder would contribute to the camera
jiggle. He would have seen that a split second before hearing the sound.
Because Zapruder's distance from the rifle remained constant, we can
expect a similar reaction time for all three shots. It appears to me we
have three frame blurring from 158-160 and 227-229. Take a look and see if
you agree.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z157.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z158.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z159.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z160.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z161.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z226.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z227.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z228.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z229.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z230.jpg
What I find interesting is that Zapruder's startle reaction at frame 227
is one frame after the startle reaction exhibited by JFK and JBC. The one
frame difference can be attributed to JFK and JBC reacting to the bullet
impact which they would have felt a split second before the sound of the
shot reached Zarpruder. It all fits.
I know I have some physical reference data (distances, bullet velocity
estimates, etc) on that day’s events that I’d be more than
willing to see if I can dig up and help you on your second shot work in
any way I can. My filing system is not that great but I’ll see
what I can come up with and definitely let you know if I can find anything
that might interest you.
For this exercise, I think approximations make the point. I'll redo the
calculations if you can come up with more precise numbers, but I don't
think it will significantly alter the results.
Post by Brian Roselle
Well, this is funny, I just mentioned in another post something on
coincidences (implying one in particular was unlikely), but here on your
last post one immediately jumps up to bite me. You ran on an 880 yard
relay in high school in Nebraska. Regarding that Nebraska high school
track meet I mentioned where my reactions to starting were a little too
fast, that meet was a district meet near Omaha, and I think there were
some Omaha schools involved. It was also on an 880 yard relay race, but I
ran the starting leg because of fast, but occasionally apparently illegal,
starts. If only it was my relay team that beat you down, that would really
have made my day today. Unfortunately it’s unlikely that it was as
I was in a Lincoln Class B school at the time (spring 1971).
I was a middle distance runner. I had tried out to be a sprinter but was
only the fourth fastest and in most meets, we only entered 3 sprinters per
event. The reason they put more on the anchor leg was because I would be
training with the distance runners and couldn't practice passing the
baton so the freshman coach thought it would be better if I only had to do
one pass and thought it would be better for me to take the baton rather
than pass it off. As I remember the Omaha Tech team had about a two stride
lead as I got the baton. Did you ever have a dream where you were trying
to run as fast as you could be it felt like you were wearing lead shoes.
That was the feeling I had. The runner who I think was Johnny Rodgers was
moving away from me like I was standing still. I think he hit the tape
about the time I was making the final turn. It might not have been quite
that bad but it seemed like it to me. I still remember the freshman coach
doubling over with laughter after I got to the finish line. I think he
knew it was coming because he had seen what this kid had been doing in
the individual events. That was spring of 1966 and I graduated 1969
which is the same year Johnny Rodgers graduated from Tech. My memory is
that the runner I ran against looked very similar to Rodgers. Of course
I mostly saw him from behind. I just remember thinking the first time I
saw him interviewed after he won the Heisman in 1972 was that he looked
like the guy I had run against and I wondered if he was one and the same.
I tried to look up his history on Wikipedia but it only covers his college
years and beyond. I do know that he went to Omaha Tech and that was the
school we were running against that day.
Just last night I found on Youtube the ESPN program from 2001 in which
they did a 30th anniversary retrospective on the 1971 Nebraska-Oklahoma
game dubbed the Game of the Century. Rodgers made that incredible punt
return touchdown on Oklahoma's first punt that in essence proved to be the
difference in the game. Just last year an ESPN panel voted that game as
the greatest in the history of college football and I concur. I would go
so far as to say it is my favorite sporting event of all time. It saddens
me to see what has become of Nebraska football in recent years after 40
years of dominance. I did follow the Buckeyes after my dad took the job at
Ohio State but my heart remained with the Huskers.
I enjoyed the discussion on your track experience, got a chuckle there
with you seeing the exhaust jets of Johnny the Jet Rodgers. Those Omaha
high schools seemed to have a lot of talent. Gayle Sayers, Johnny Rodgers,
Eric Crouch were all sprinters in Omaha H.S. track, and ended up in the
college hall of fame. If your 880 relay team was comprised of Sayers,
Rodgers, Crouch, and Corbett it would have been one for the ages!

Regarding the camera and other misc parameters, I did find some references
I had used earlier. These were used for some timing breakdowns for the
first shot awhile back, but many also apply to the second shot. The
intent was not to be perfectly exact since high precision was not known,
but try to get a close enough estimate to see how things may have
unfolded. The direct line of sight distances through air were estimated
with the help of Google Earth and best estimate on limo street location I
had at the particular time. Maybe some numbers here can help or just be a
sanity check type of thing for your analysis. If you find something that
looks way out of whack, or something I missed let me know.

Zapruder film timing:
Average of 1/18.3 sec/frame or ~0.055 sec/frame : This seems to be the
widely accepted value most use.
Exposure time:
-An old manual mentioned 1/35 sec for a standard run setting
-A Zavada report mentioned exposure at 1/40 sec http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/Z%20Disk/Zapruder%20Abraham%20Film%20Authenticity%20Controversy/Item%2012.pdf

I think I would go with the Zavada report. That gives a frame exposure
on-time of 0.025 sec and by difference from 0.055, an off-time of 0.030
sec. This looks to give an exposure on-time/off-time ratio of around 0.46.
So each exposed frame wasn’t far off of being about half of the
total frame time.

Other timing and distance parameter estimates:
Direct distance from 6th floor window to JFK limo at Z222; ~188 ft
Direct distance from 6th floor window to JFK limo at z313; ~265 ft
Direct distance from 6th floor window to Zapruder ~268 ft
6th floor window height above street; ~60 ft
Speed of sound; ~1123 ft/sec
Muzzle velocity of bullet; ~2165 ft/sec
Ballpark estimate on bullet velocity reduction rate thru air; ~ 1 ft/sec/ft
traveled
Second shot bullet velocity at JFK low neck strike; ~1977 ft/sec
Average 2nd shot bullet velocity over its flight; ~2071 ft/sec
Zapruder startle reaction estimate; ~0.21 sec
Second shot Zapruder camera jiggle frame after his startle delay; ~z227.5

Connally’s individual perception time (time to start his voluntary
head motions after hearing a complete surprise stimulus - applicable only
for the 1st shot); ~1.3 sec

Connally start of voluntary head motions in reaction to hearing the first
shot ; ~z150

I should mention that in tabulating the start of early Zapruder film
reactions, Ken Scearce provided independent data he separately gathered.
Early reaction frame numbers I reference are an average of my data and his
which we used to help piece together reactions and reaction time
estimates.
John Corbett
2020-12-19 19:20:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Roselle
Post by John Corbett
Post by Brian Roselle
Post by John Corbett
I'm trying to figure just what Zapruder's reaction time would be. I'm am
forced to use ballpark figures because I don't have specific data. I'm
sure somewhere Zapruder's distance from the sniper's nest is documented
but I'm going to guesstimate 250 feet because JFK was 266 at the head shot
and Zapruder I believe was slightly closer. Also, the speed of sound
varies with temperature. I'm going to use 1125 fps which I think is pretty
close. using those figures. that works out to .2222...seconds for the
sound of the head shot to reach him. Now, when to start the clock? My
previous analysis indicated the shot was fired from late 310 to early 311.
I'll arbitrarily say it was the 310-311 gap. Once the sound reached
Zapruder, it would take him about another 200 milliseconds or .2 seconds
for his startle reaction. Add that to the amount of time it would take the
sound to reach him and we could expect a reaction .4222....seconds after
the shot was fired. Divide that by the length of one frame which is 1/18.3
and we get 7.7266666...... frames for a reaction by Zapruder. Starting
from the 310-311 gap that takes us right to frame 318 which is the one in
which the blurring began. It looks like it lasted about three frames.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z317.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z318.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z319.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z320.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z321.jpg
One variable which we can only guess at is how much the sight of seeing
JFK's head explode through his viewfinder would contribute to the camera
jiggle. He would have seen that a split second before hearing the sound.
Because Zapruder's distance from the rifle remained constant, we can
expect a similar reaction time for all three shots. It appears to me we
have three frame blurring from 158-160 and 227-229. Take a look and see if
you agree.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z157.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z158.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z159.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z160.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z161.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z226.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z227.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z228.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z229.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z230.jpg
What I find interesting is that Zapruder's startle reaction at frame 227
is one frame after the startle reaction exhibited by JFK and JBC. The one
frame difference can be attributed to JFK and JBC reacting to the bullet
impact which they would have felt a split second before the sound of the
shot reached Zarpruder. It all fits.
I know I have some physical reference data (distances, bullet velocity
estimates, etc) on that day’s events that I’d be more than
willing to see if I can dig up and help you on your second shot work in
any way I can. My filing system is not that great but I’ll see
what I can come up with and definitely let you know if I can find anything
that might interest you.
For this exercise, I think approximations make the point. I'll redo the
calculations if you can come up with more precise numbers, but I don't
think it will significantly alter the results.
Post by Brian Roselle
Well, this is funny, I just mentioned in another post something on
coincidences (implying one in particular was unlikely), but here on your
last post one immediately jumps up to bite me. You ran on an 880 yard
relay in high school in Nebraska. Regarding that Nebraska high school
track meet I mentioned where my reactions to starting were a little too
fast, that meet was a district meet near Omaha, and I think there were
some Omaha schools involved. It was also on an 880 yard relay race, but I
ran the starting leg because of fast, but occasionally apparently illegal,
starts. If only it was my relay team that beat you down, that would really
have made my day today. Unfortunately it’s unlikely that it was as
I was in a Lincoln Class B school at the time (spring 1971).
I was a middle distance runner. I had tried out to be a sprinter but was
only the fourth fastest and in most meets, we only entered 3 sprinters per
event. The reason they put more on the anchor leg was because I would be
training with the distance runners and couldn't practice passing the
baton so the freshman coach thought it would be better if I only had to do
one pass and thought it would be better for me to take the baton rather
than pass it off. As I remember the Omaha Tech team had about a two stride
lead as I got the baton. Did you ever have a dream where you were trying
to run as fast as you could be it felt like you were wearing lead shoes.
That was the feeling I had. The runner who I think was Johnny Rodgers was
moving away from me like I was standing still. I think he hit the tape
about the time I was making the final turn. It might not have been quite
that bad but it seemed like it to me. I still remember the freshman coach
doubling over with laughter after I got to the finish line. I think he
knew it was coming because he had seen what this kid had been doing in
the individual events. That was spring of 1966 and I graduated 1969
which is the same year Johnny Rodgers graduated from Tech. My memory is
that the runner I ran against looked very similar to Rodgers. Of course
I mostly saw him from behind. I just remember thinking the first time I
saw him interviewed after he won the Heisman in 1972 was that he looked
like the guy I had run against and I wondered if he was one and the same.
I tried to look up his history on Wikipedia but it only covers his college
years and beyond. I do know that he went to Omaha Tech and that was the
school we were running against that day.
Just last night I found on Youtube the ESPN program from 2001 in which
they did a 30th anniversary retrospective on the 1971 Nebraska-Oklahoma
game dubbed the Game of the Century. Rodgers made that incredible punt
return touchdown on Oklahoma's first punt that in essence proved to be the
difference in the game. Just last year an ESPN panel voted that game as
the greatest in the history of college football and I concur. I would go
so far as to say it is my favorite sporting event of all time. It saddens
me to see what has become of Nebraska football in recent years after 40
years of dominance. I did follow the Buckeyes after my dad took the job at
Ohio State but my heart remained with the Huskers.
I enjoyed the discussion on your track experience, got a chuckle there
with you seeing the exhaust jets of Johnny the Jet Rodgers. Those Omaha
high schools seemed to have a lot of talent. Gayle Sayers, Johnny Rodgers,
Eric Crouch were all sprinters in Omaha H.S. track, and ended up in the
college hall of fame.
I got to see Gale Sayers in high school while I was still in grade school.
He played for Central and this was against Creighton Prep. At the time,
the high school was still on the university campus and they had a huge
double decked stadium for the high school. I don't know if the university
ever fielded a football team. In the final minutes, Prep led by a few
points when Central got the ball and started giving it to Sayers. Good
idea. They drove it to midfield with less than a minute. Sayers ran to his
left then suddenly pulled up and threw a left handed pass to a receiver
who was all alone at the 5 yard line. He dropped the ball and Prep held on
to win. Sayers had an older brother who was even faster than he was. If I
remember right, he was the only man ever to beat Bob Hayes in a sprint. I
decided to google it to confirm if my memory is correct and it turned out
it is.

https://www.dataomaha.com/neb100/player/36

A lot of people don't remember that in the 1960s, Bob Hayes was as
dominant a sprinter in the 1960s as Usain Bolt has been the past decade
although I don't remember Hayes running the 200. I would bet he is still
the fastest man ever to play in the NFL.
Post by Brian Roselle
If your 880 relay team was comprised of Sayers,
Rodgers, Crouch, and Corbett it would have been one for the ages!
With those other guys running the first three legs, even I might have held
on to win.

Bob Gibson was another Hall of Fame athlete to come out of Omaha. Like
Rodgers, he attended Tech. I just saw a list of athletes who passed away
this year and discovered both Gibson and Gale Sayers left us this year.
Post by Brian Roselle
Regarding the camera and other misc parameters, I did find some references
I had used earlier. These were used for some timing breakdowns for the
first shot awhile back, but many also apply to the second shot. The
intent was not to be perfectly exact since high precision was not known,
but try to get a close enough estimate to see how things may have
unfolded. The direct line of sight distances through air were estimated
with the help of Google Earth and best estimate on limo street location I
had at the particular time. Maybe some numbers here can help or just be a
sanity check type of thing for your analysis. If you find something that
looks way out of whack, or something I missed let me know.
Average of 1/18.3 sec/frame or ~0.055 sec/frame : This seems to be the
widely accepted value most use.
-An old manual mentioned 1/35 sec for a standard run setting
-A Zavada report mentioned exposure at 1/40 sec http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/Z%20Disk/Zapruder%20Abraham%20Film%20Authenticity%20Controversy/Item%2012.pdf
I think I would go with the Zavada report. That gives a frame exposure
on-time of 0.025 sec and by difference from 0.055, an off-time of 0.030
sec. This looks to give an exposure on-time/off-time ratio of around 0.46.
So each exposed frame wasn’t far off of being about half of the
total frame time.
Direct distance from 6th floor window to JFK limo at Z222; ~188 ft
Direct distance from 6th floor window to JFK limo at z313; ~265 ft
Direct distance from 6th floor window to Zapruder ~268 ft
6th floor window height above street; ~60 ft
Speed of sound; ~1123 ft/sec
I saw something yesterday that indicates the speed of sound varies with
the temperature. Thee are other variables as well. Humidity, wind speed
and direction. etc. I just plugged in some temperature values and took the
default for the other variables. It indicated a SOS of 1117 fps at 60
degrees and 1127 fps at 70 degrees. For my calculations, I thought 1125
would be close enough.
Post by Brian Roselle
Muzzle velocity of bullet; ~2165 ft/sec
Ballpark estimate on bullet velocity reduction rate thru air; ~ 1 ft/sec/ft
traveled
Second shot bullet velocity at JFK low neck strike; ~1977 ft/sec
Average 2nd shot bullet velocity over its flight; ~2071 ft/sec
I guesstimated 2000 fps. There are two many variables to get total
precision so I was satisfied using ballpark numbers.
Post by Brian Roselle
Zapruder startle reaction estimate; ~0.21 sec
Second shot Zapruder camera jiggle frame after his startle delay; ~z227.5
This is the primary reason we can't get absolute precision. The camera is
just too slow to achieve that. We don't know if key events happened early
in a frame, late in a frame, or in a gap between frames. That's why I was
satisfied with ballpark figures. Given what we have to work with, I think
precision to within one frame is the best we can do.
Post by Brian Roselle
Connally’s individual perception time (time to start his voluntary
head motions after hearing a complete surprise stimulus - applicable only
for the 1st shot); ~1.3 sec
Connally start of voluntary head motions in reaction to hearing the first
shot ; ~z150
My rough calculations are that the sound of the first shot would have
taken about 2 frames to reach Connally's ears. A shot at 150-151 would
have reached Connally at 152-153. That gives me a reaction time of 11-12
frames.
Post by Brian Roselle
I should mention that in tabulating the start of early Zapruder film
reactions, Ken Scearce provided independent data he separately gathered.
Early reaction frame numbers I reference are an average of my data and his
which we used to help piece together reactions and reaction time
estimates.
Brian Roselle
2020-12-20 21:10:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Corbett
Post by Brian Roselle
Post by John Corbett
Post by Brian Roselle
Post by John Corbett
I'm trying to figure just what Zapruder's reaction time would be. I'm am
forced to use ballpark figures because I don't have specific data. I'm
sure somewhere Zapruder's distance from the sniper's nest is documented
but I'm going to guesstimate 250 feet because JFK was 266 at the head shot
and Zapruder I believe was slightly closer. Also, the speed of sound
varies with temperature. I'm going to use 1125 fps which I think is pretty
close. using those figures. that works out to .2222...seconds for the
sound of the head shot to reach him. Now, when to start the clock? My
previous analysis indicated the shot was fired from late 310 to early 311.
I'll arbitrarily say it was the 310-311 gap. Once the sound reached
Zapruder, it would take him about another 200 milliseconds or .2 seconds
for his startle reaction. Add that to the amount of time it would take the
sound to reach him and we could expect a reaction .4222....seconds after
the shot was fired. Divide that by the length of one frame which is 1/18.3
and we get 7.7266666...... frames for a reaction by Zapruder. Starting
from the 310-311 gap that takes us right to frame 318 which is the one in
which the blurring began. It looks like it lasted about three frames.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z317.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z318.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z319.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z320.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z321.jpg
One variable which we can only guess at is how much the sight of seeing
JFK's head explode through his viewfinder would contribute to the camera
jiggle. He would have seen that a split second before hearing the sound.
Because Zapruder's distance from the rifle remained constant, we can
expect a similar reaction time for all three shots. It appears to me we
have three frame blurring from 158-160 and 227-229. Take a look and see if
you agree.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z157.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z158.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z159.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z160.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z161.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z226.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z227.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z228.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z229.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z230.jpg
What I find interesting is that Zapruder's startle reaction at frame 227
is one frame after the startle reaction exhibited by JFK and JBC. The one
frame difference can be attributed to JFK and JBC reacting to the bullet
impact which they would have felt a split second before the sound of the
shot reached Zarpruder. It all fits.
I know I have some physical reference data (distances, bullet velocity
estimates, etc) on that day’s events that I’d be more than
willing to see if I can dig up and help you on your second shot work in
any way I can. My filing system is not that great but I’ll see
what I can come up with and definitely let you know if I can find anything
that might interest you.
For this exercise, I think approximations make the point. I'll redo the
calculations if you can come up with more precise numbers, but I don't
think it will significantly alter the results.
Post by Brian Roselle
Well, this is funny, I just mentioned in another post something on
coincidences (implying one in particular was unlikely), but here on your
last post one immediately jumps up to bite me. You ran on an 880 yard
relay in high school in Nebraska. Regarding that Nebraska high school
track meet I mentioned where my reactions to starting were a little too
fast, that meet was a district meet near Omaha, and I think there were
some Omaha schools involved. It was also on an 880 yard relay race, but I
ran the starting leg because of fast, but occasionally apparently illegal,
starts. If only it was my relay team that beat you down, that would really
have made my day today. Unfortunately it’s unlikely that it was as
I was in a Lincoln Class B school at the time (spring 1971).
I was a middle distance runner. I had tried out to be a sprinter but was
only the fourth fastest and in most meets, we only entered 3 sprinters per
event. The reason they put more on the anchor leg was because I would be
training with the distance runners and couldn't practice passing the
baton so the freshman coach thought it would be better if I only had to do
one pass and thought it would be better for me to take the baton rather
than pass it off. As I remember the Omaha Tech team had about a two stride
lead as I got the baton. Did you ever have a dream where you were trying
to run as fast as you could be it felt like you were wearing lead shoes.
That was the feeling I had. The runner who I think was Johnny Rodgers was
moving away from me like I was standing still. I think he hit the tape
about the time I was making the final turn. It might not have been quite
that bad but it seemed like it to me. I still remember the freshman coach
doubling over with laughter after I got to the finish line. I think he
knew it was coming because he had seen what this kid had been doing in
the individual events. That was spring of 1966 and I graduated 1969
which is the same year Johnny Rodgers graduated from Tech. My memory is
that the runner I ran against looked very similar to Rodgers. Of course
I mostly saw him from behind. I just remember thinking the first time I
saw him interviewed after he won the Heisman in 1972 was that he looked
like the guy I had run against and I wondered if he was one and the same.
I tried to look up his history on Wikipedia but it only covers his college
years and beyond. I do know that he went to Omaha Tech and that was the
school we were running against that day.
Just last night I found on Youtube the ESPN program from 2001 in which
they did a 30th anniversary retrospective on the 1971 Nebraska-Oklahoma
game dubbed the Game of the Century. Rodgers made that incredible punt
return touchdown on Oklahoma's first punt that in essence proved to be the
difference in the game. Just last year an ESPN panel voted that game as
the greatest in the history of college football and I concur. I would go
so far as to say it is my favorite sporting event of all time. It saddens
me to see what has become of Nebraska football in recent years after 40
years of dominance. I did follow the Buckeyes after my dad took the job at
Ohio State but my heart remained with the Huskers.
I enjoyed the discussion on your track experience, got a chuckle there
with you seeing the exhaust jets of Johnny the Jet Rodgers. Those Omaha
high schools seemed to have a lot of talent. Gayle Sayers, Johnny Rodgers,
Eric Crouch were all sprinters in Omaha H.S. track, and ended up in the
college hall of fame.
I got to see Gale Sayers in high school while I was still in grade school.
He played for Central and this was against Creighton Prep. At the time,
the high school was still on the university campus and they had a huge
double decked stadium for the high school. I don't know if the university
ever fielded a football team. In the final minutes, Prep led by a few
points when Central got the ball and started giving it to Sayers. Good
idea. They drove it to midfield with less than a minute. Sayers ran to his
left then suddenly pulled up and threw a left handed pass to a receiver
who was all alone at the 5 yard line. He dropped the ball and Prep held on
to win. Sayers had an older brother who was even faster than he was. If I
remember right, he was the only man ever to beat Bob Hayes in a sprint. I
decided to google it to confirm if my memory is correct and it turned out
it is.
https://www.dataomaha.com/neb100/player/36
A lot of people don't remember that in the 1960s, Bob Hayes was as
dominant a sprinter in the 1960s as Usain Bolt has been the past decade
although I don't remember Hayes running the 200. I would bet he is still
the fastest man ever to play in the NFL.
Post by Brian Roselle
If your 880 relay team was comprised of Sayers,
Rodgers, Crouch, and Corbett it would have been one for the ages!
With those other guys running the first three legs, even I might have held
on to win.
Bob Gibson was another Hall of Fame athlete to come out of Omaha. Like
Rodgers, he attended Tech. I just saw a list of athletes who passed away
this year and discovered both Gibson and Gale Sayers left us this year.
Post by Brian Roselle
Regarding the camera and other misc parameters, I did find some references
I had used earlier. These were used for some timing breakdowns for the
first shot awhile back, but many also apply to the second shot. The
intent was not to be perfectly exact since high precision was not known,
but try to get a close enough estimate to see how things may have
unfolded. The direct line of sight distances through air were estimated
with the help of Google Earth and best estimate on limo street location I
had at the particular time. Maybe some numbers here can help or just be a
sanity check type of thing for your analysis. If you find something that
looks way out of whack, or something I missed let me know.
Average of 1/18.3 sec/frame or ~0.055 sec/frame : This seems to be the
widely accepted value most use.
-An old manual mentioned 1/35 sec for a standard run setting
-A Zavada report mentioned exposure at 1/40 sec http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/Z%20Disk/Zapruder%20Abraham%20Film%20Authenticity%20Controversy/Item%2012.pdf
I think I would go with the Zavada report. That gives a frame exposure
on-time of 0.025 sec and by difference from 0.055, an off-time of 0.030
sec. This looks to give an exposure on-time/off-time ratio of around 0.46.
So each exposed frame wasn’t far off of being about half of the
total frame time.
Direct distance from 6th floor window to JFK limo at Z222; ~188 ft
Direct distance from 6th floor window to JFK limo at z313; ~265 ft
Direct distance from 6th floor window to Zapruder ~268 ft
6th floor window height above street; ~60 ft
Speed of sound; ~1123 ft/sec
I saw something yesterday that indicates the speed of sound varies with
the temperature. Thee are other variables as well. Humidity, wind speed
and direction. etc. I just plugged in some temperature values and took the
default for the other variables. It indicated a SOS of 1117 fps at 60
degrees and 1127 fps at 70 degrees. For my calculations, I thought 1125
would be close enough.
Post by Brian Roselle
Muzzle velocity of bullet; ~2165 ft/sec
Ballpark estimate on bullet velocity reduction rate thru air; ~ 1 ft/sec/ft
traveled
Second shot bullet velocity at JFK low neck strike; ~1977 ft/sec
Average 2nd shot bullet velocity over its flight; ~2071 ft/sec
I guesstimated 2000 fps. There are two many variables to get total
precision so I was satisfied using ballpark numbers.
Post by Brian Roselle
Zapruder startle reaction estimate; ~0.21 sec
Second shot Zapruder camera jiggle frame after his startle delay; ~z227.5
This is the primary reason we can't get absolute precision. The camera is
just too slow to achieve that. We don't know if key events happened early
in a frame, late in a frame, or in a gap between frames. That's why I was
satisfied with ballpark figures. Given what we have to work with, I think
precision to within one frame is the best we can do.
Post by Brian Roselle
Connally’s individual perception time (time to start his voluntary
head motions after hearing a complete surprise stimulus - applicable only
for the 1st shot); ~1.3 sec
Connally start of voluntary head motions in reaction to hearing the first
shot ; ~z150
My rough calculations are that the sound of the first shot would have
taken about 2 frames to reach Connally's ears. A shot at 150-151 would
have reached Connally at 152-153. That gives me a reaction time of 11-12
frames.
Post by Brian Roselle
I should mention that in tabulating the start of early Zapruder film
reactions, Ken Scearce provided independent data he separately gathered.
Early reaction frame numbers I reference are an average of my data and his
which we used to help piece together reactions and reaction time
estimates.
Like you said, getting a close enough estimate on the parameter values to
effectively calculate what had happened, to within a frame, is probably
about the best that we can do.

I think your parameter estimates for the second shot are good enough to do
that, so although we disagree on the parameters to use for the first shot,
as I said initially I think your second shot timing analysis of the bullet
striking Connally around z222 looks pretty good. If I had to guess I would
agree with you that the strike likely hit him inside a z222 +/- 1
timeframe window.
John Corbett
2020-12-22 04:41:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Roselle
Post by John Corbett
Post by Brian Roselle
Post by John Corbett
Post by Brian Roselle
Post by John Corbett
I'm trying to figure just what Zapruder's reaction time would be. I'm am
forced to use ballpark figures because I don't have specific data. I'm
sure somewhere Zapruder's distance from the sniper's nest is documented
but I'm going to guesstimate 250 feet because JFK was 266 at the head shot
and Zapruder I believe was slightly closer. Also, the speed of sound
varies with temperature. I'm going to use 1125 fps which I think is pretty
close. using those figures. that works out to .2222...seconds for the
sound of the head shot to reach him. Now, when to start the clock? My
previous analysis indicated the shot was fired from late 310 to early 311.
I'll arbitrarily say it was the 310-311 gap. Once the sound reached
Zapruder, it would take him about another 200 milliseconds or .2 seconds
for his startle reaction. Add that to the amount of time it would take the
sound to reach him and we could expect a reaction .4222....seconds after
the shot was fired. Divide that by the length of one frame which is 1/18.3
and we get 7.7266666...... frames for a reaction by Zapruder. Starting
from the 310-311 gap that takes us right to frame 318 which is the one in
which the blurring began. It looks like it lasted about three frames.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z317.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z318.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z319.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z320.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z321.jpg
One variable which we can only guess at is how much the sight of seeing
JFK's head explode through his viewfinder would contribute to the camera
jiggle. He would have seen that a split second before hearing the sound.
Because Zapruder's distance from the rifle remained constant, we can
expect a similar reaction time for all three shots. It appears to me we
have three frame blurring from 158-160 and 227-229. Take a look and see if
you agree.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z157.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z158.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z159.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z160.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z161.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z226.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z227.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z228.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z229.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z230.jpg
What I find interesting is that Zapruder's startle reaction at frame 227
is one frame after the startle reaction exhibited by JFK and JBC. The one
frame difference can be attributed to JFK and JBC reacting to the bullet
impact which they would have felt a split second before the sound of the
shot reached Zarpruder. It all fits.
I know I have some physical reference data (distances, bullet velocity
estimates, etc) on that day’s events that I’d be more than
willing to see if I can dig up and help you on your second shot work in
any way I can. My filing system is not that great but I’ll see
what I can come up with and definitely let you know if I can find anything
that might interest you.
For this exercise, I think approximations make the point. I'll redo the
calculations if you can come up with more precise numbers, but I don't
think it will significantly alter the results.
Post by Brian Roselle
Well, this is funny, I just mentioned in another post something on
coincidences (implying one in particular was unlikely), but here on your
last post one immediately jumps up to bite me. You ran on an 880 yard
relay in high school in Nebraska. Regarding that Nebraska high school
track meet I mentioned where my reactions to starting were a little too
fast, that meet was a district meet near Omaha, and I think there were
some Omaha schools involved. It was also on an 880 yard relay race, but I
ran the starting leg because of fast, but occasionally apparently illegal,
starts. If only it was my relay team that beat you down, that would really
have made my day today. Unfortunately it’s unlikely that it was as
I was in a Lincoln Class B school at the time (spring 1971).
I was a middle distance runner. I had tried out to be a sprinter but was
only the fourth fastest and in most meets, we only entered 3 sprinters per
event. The reason they put more on the anchor leg was because I would be
training with the distance runners and couldn't practice passing the
baton so the freshman coach thought it would be better if I only had to do
one pass and thought it would be better for me to take the baton rather
than pass it off. As I remember the Omaha Tech team had about a two stride
lead as I got the baton. Did you ever have a dream where you were trying
to run as fast as you could be it felt like you were wearing lead shoes.
That was the feeling I had. The runner who I think was Johnny Rodgers was
moving away from me like I was standing still. I think he hit the tape
about the time I was making the final turn. It might not have been quite
that bad but it seemed like it to me. I still remember the freshman coach
doubling over with laughter after I got to the finish line. I think he
knew it was coming because he had seen what this kid had been doing in
the individual events. That was spring of 1966 and I graduated 1969
which is the same year Johnny Rodgers graduated from Tech. My memory is
that the runner I ran against looked very similar to Rodgers. Of course
I mostly saw him from behind. I just remember thinking the first time I
saw him interviewed after he won the Heisman in 1972 was that he looked
like the guy I had run against and I wondered if he was one and the same.
I tried to look up his history on Wikipedia but it only covers his college
years and beyond. I do know that he went to Omaha Tech and that was the
school we were running against that day.
Just last night I found on Youtube the ESPN program from 2001 in which
they did a 30th anniversary retrospective on the 1971 Nebraska-Oklahoma
game dubbed the Game of the Century. Rodgers made that incredible punt
return touchdown on Oklahoma's first punt that in essence proved to be the
difference in the game. Just last year an ESPN panel voted that game as
the greatest in the history of college football and I concur. I would go
so far as to say it is my favorite sporting event of all time. It saddens
me to see what has become of Nebraska football in recent years after 40
years of dominance. I did follow the Buckeyes after my dad took the job at
Ohio State but my heart remained with the Huskers.
I enjoyed the discussion on your track experience, got a chuckle there
with you seeing the exhaust jets of Johnny the Jet Rodgers. Those Omaha
high schools seemed to have a lot of talent. Gayle Sayers, Johnny Rodgers,
Eric Crouch were all sprinters in Omaha H.S. track, and ended up in the
college hall of fame.
I got to see Gale Sayers in high school while I was still in grade school.
He played for Central and this was against Creighton Prep. At the time,
the high school was still on the university campus and they had a huge
double decked stadium for the high school. I don't know if the university
ever fielded a football team. In the final minutes, Prep led by a few
points when Central got the ball and started giving it to Sayers. Good
idea. They drove it to midfield with less than a minute. Sayers ran to his
left then suddenly pulled up and threw a left handed pass to a receiver
who was all alone at the 5 yard line. He dropped the ball and Prep held on
to win. Sayers had an older brother who was even faster than he was. If I
remember right, he was the only man ever to beat Bob Hayes in a sprint. I
decided to google it to confirm if my memory is correct and it turned out
it is.
https://www.dataomaha.com/neb100/player/36
A lot of people don't remember that in the 1960s, Bob Hayes was as
dominant a sprinter in the 1960s as Usain Bolt has been the past decade
although I don't remember Hayes running the 200. I would bet he is still
the fastest man ever to play in the NFL.
Post by Brian Roselle
If your 880 relay team was comprised of Sayers,
Rodgers, Crouch, and Corbett it would have been one for the ages!
With those other guys running the first three legs, even I might have held
on to win.
Bob Gibson was another Hall of Fame athlete to come out of Omaha. Like
Rodgers, he attended Tech. I just saw a list of athletes who passed away
this year and discovered both Gibson and Gale Sayers left us this year.
Post by Brian Roselle
Regarding the camera and other misc parameters, I did find some references
I had used earlier. These were used for some timing breakdowns for the
first shot awhile back, but many also apply to the second shot. The
intent was not to be perfectly exact since high precision was not known,
but try to get a close enough estimate to see how things may have
unfolded. The direct line of sight distances through air were estimated
with the help of Google Earth and best estimate on limo street location I
had at the particular time. Maybe some numbers here can help or just be a
sanity check type of thing for your analysis. If you find something that
looks way out of whack, or something I missed let me know.
Average of 1/18.3 sec/frame or ~0.055 sec/frame : This seems to be the
widely accepted value most use.
-An old manual mentioned 1/35 sec for a standard run setting
-A Zavada report mentioned exposure at 1/40 sec http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/Z%20Disk/Zapruder%20Abraham%20Film%20Authenticity%20Controversy/Item%2012.pdf
I think I would go with the Zavada report. That gives a frame exposure
on-time of 0.025 sec and by difference from 0.055, an off-time of 0.030
sec. This looks to give an exposure on-time/off-time ratio of around 0.46.
So each exposed frame wasn’t far off of being about half of the
total frame time.
Direct distance from 6th floor window to JFK limo at Z222; ~188 ft
Direct distance from 6th floor window to JFK limo at z313; ~265 ft
Direct distance from 6th floor window to Zapruder ~268 ft
6th floor window height above street; ~60 ft
Speed of sound; ~1123 ft/sec
I saw something yesterday that indicates the speed of sound varies with
the temperature. Thee are other variables as well. Humidity, wind speed
and direction. etc. I just plugged in some temperature values and took the
default for the other variables. It indicated a SOS of 1117 fps at 60
degrees and 1127 fps at 70 degrees. For my calculations, I thought 1125
would be close enough.
Post by Brian Roselle
Muzzle velocity of bullet; ~2165 ft/sec
Ballpark estimate on bullet velocity reduction rate thru air; ~ 1 ft/sec/ft
traveled
Second shot bullet velocity at JFK low neck strike; ~1977 ft/sec
Average 2nd shot bullet velocity over its flight; ~2071 ft/sec
I guesstimated 2000 fps. There are two many variables to get total
precision so I was satisfied using ballpark numbers.
Post by Brian Roselle
Zapruder startle reaction estimate; ~0.21 sec
Second shot Zapruder camera jiggle frame after his startle delay; ~z227.5
This is the primary reason we can't get absolute precision. The camera is
just too slow to achieve that. We don't know if key events happened early
in a frame, late in a frame, or in a gap between frames. That's why I was
satisfied with ballpark figures. Given what we have to work with, I think
precision to within one frame is the best we can do.
Post by Brian Roselle
Connally’s individual perception time (time to start his voluntary
head motions after hearing a complete surprise stimulus - applicable only
for the 1st shot); ~1.3 sec
Connally start of voluntary head motions in reaction to hearing the first
shot ; ~z150
My rough calculations are that the sound of the first shot would have
taken about 2 frames to reach Connally's ears. A shot at 150-151 would
have reached Connally at 152-153. That gives me a reaction time of 11-12
frames.
Post by Brian Roselle
I should mention that in tabulating the start of early Zapruder film
reactions, Ken Scearce provided independent data he separately gathered.
Early reaction frame numbers I reference are an average of my data and his
which we used to help piece together reactions and reaction time
estimates.
Like you said, getting a close enough estimate on the parameter values to
effectively calculate what had happened, to within a frame, is probably
about the best that we can do.
I think your parameter estimates for the second shot are good enough to do
that, so although we disagree on the parameters to use for the first shot,
as I said initially I think your second shot timing analysis of the bullet
striking Connally around z222 looks pretty good. If I had to guess I would
agree with you that the strike likely hit him inside a z222 +/- 1
timeframe window.
There is one element that we seem to have nothing but guesswork for and
that is the bulging of Connally's coat at Z224. I know some people think
that indicates the single bullet struck at Z224 but that doesn't jibe with
a startle reaction at Z226. There had to be more time. The earliest the
bullet could have struck was early Z223 with the reaction at late Z226.
That would cover 200 milliseconds. I think it's more probable the bullet
struck a little earlier, possibly even just before Z222. The Z227 jiggle
suggests a shot fired Z219-220 striking at Z221-222.

Getting back to the jacket bulge, I think it is almost certain the single
bullet had already passed by the time that frame was exposed. The reason I
say that is because if it passed during the exposure of that frame, the
area over the right side of Connally's chest would have been white for
part of the exposure. I think that would have appeared either gray or
blurred if that was the case. Instead it is solid black. That tells me the
bullet had gone through earlier. The question is, how much earlier. I wish
I had a definite answer. I know it wouldn't have occurred simultaneous
with the bullet passing. Would it have been one frame earlier or more?
Since the cloth offers so little resistance to the bullet, very little of
the bullet's energy would transfer to the cloth. I tried to find a video
of a bullet passing through cloth but had no luck. Most of them show a
bullet passing through wood or ballistic gel. I did find this one of
bullets passing through a variety of objects, all filled with some kind of
liquid.



In all of them, there was backsplash toward the shooter. Not as much as
went forward, but there was some. That would explain the tissue that ended
up on the trunk of the limo.
Brian Roselle
2020-12-23 15:52:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Corbett
Post by Brian Roselle
Post by John Corbett
Post by Brian Roselle
Post by John Corbett
Post by Brian Roselle
Post by John Corbett
I'm trying to figure just what Zapruder's reaction time would be. I'm am
forced to use ballpark figures because I don't have specific data. I'm
sure somewhere Zapruder's distance from the sniper's nest is documented
but I'm going to guesstimate 250 feet because JFK was 266 at the head shot
and Zapruder I believe was slightly closer. Also, the speed of sound
varies with temperature. I'm going to use 1125 fps which I think is pretty
close. using those figures. that works out to .2222...seconds for the
sound of the head shot to reach him. Now, when to start the clock? My
previous analysis indicated the shot was fired from late 310 to early 311.
I'll arbitrarily say it was the 310-311 gap. Once the sound reached
Zapruder, it would take him about another 200 milliseconds or .2 seconds
for his startle reaction. Add that to the amount of time it would take the
sound to reach him and we could expect a reaction .4222....seconds after
the shot was fired. Divide that by the length of one frame which is 1/18.3
and we get 7.7266666...... frames for a reaction by Zapruder. Starting
from the 310-311 gap that takes us right to frame 318 which is the one in
which the blurring began. It looks like it lasted about three frames.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z317.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z318.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z319.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z320.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z321.jpg
One variable which we can only guess at is how much the sight of seeing
JFK's head explode through his viewfinder would contribute to the camera
jiggle. He would have seen that a split second before hearing the sound.
Because Zapruder's distance from the rifle remained constant, we can
expect a similar reaction time for all three shots. It appears to me we
have three frame blurring from 158-160 and 227-229. Take a look and see if
you agree.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z157.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z158.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z159.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z160.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z161.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z226.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z227.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z228.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z229.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z230.jpg
What I find interesting is that Zapruder's startle reaction at frame 227
is one frame after the startle reaction exhibited by JFK and JBC. The one
frame difference can be attributed to JFK and JBC reacting to the bullet
impact which they would have felt a split second before the sound of the
shot reached Zarpruder. It all fits.
I know I have some physical reference data (distances, bullet velocity
estimates, etc) on that day’s events that I’d be more than
willing to see if I can dig up and help you on your second shot work in
any way I can. My filing system is not that great but I’ll see
what I can come up with and definitely let you know if I can find anything
that might interest you.
For this exercise, I think approximations make the point. I'll redo the
calculations if you can come up with more precise numbers, but I don't
think it will significantly alter the results.
Post by Brian Roselle
Well, this is funny, I just mentioned in another post something on
coincidences (implying one in particular was unlikely), but here on your
last post one immediately jumps up to bite me. You ran on an 880 yard
relay in high school in Nebraska. Regarding that Nebraska high school
track meet I mentioned where my reactions to starting were a little too
fast, that meet was a district meet near Omaha, and I think there were
some Omaha schools involved. It was also on an 880 yard relay race, but I
ran the starting leg because of fast, but occasionally apparently illegal,
starts. If only it was my relay team that beat you down, that would really
have made my day today. Unfortunately it’s unlikely that it was as
I was in a Lincoln Class B school at the time (spring 1971).
I was a middle distance runner. I had tried out to be a sprinter but was
only the fourth fastest and in most meets, we only entered 3 sprinters per
event. The reason they put more on the anchor leg was because I would be
training with the distance runners and couldn't practice passing the
baton so the freshman coach thought it would be better if I only had to do
one pass and thought it would be better for me to take the baton rather
than pass it off. As I remember the Omaha Tech team had about a two stride
lead as I got the baton. Did you ever have a dream where you were trying
to run as fast as you could be it felt like you were wearing lead shoes.
That was the feeling I had. The runner who I think was Johnny Rodgers was
moving away from me like I was standing still. I think he hit the tape
about the time I was making the final turn. It might not have been quite
that bad but it seemed like it to me. I still remember the freshman coach
doubling over with laughter after I got to the finish line. I think he
knew it was coming because he had seen what this kid had been doing in
the individual events. That was spring of 1966 and I graduated 1969
which is the same year Johnny Rodgers graduated from Tech. My memory is
that the runner I ran against looked very similar to Rodgers. Of course
I mostly saw him from behind. I just remember thinking the first time I
saw him interviewed after he won the Heisman in 1972 was that he looked
like the guy I had run against and I wondered if he was one and the same.
I tried to look up his history on Wikipedia but it only covers his college
years and beyond. I do know that he went to Omaha Tech and that was the
school we were running against that day.
Just last night I found on Youtube the ESPN program from 2001 in which
they did a 30th anniversary retrospective on the 1971 Nebraska-Oklahoma
game dubbed the Game of the Century. Rodgers made that incredible punt
return touchdown on Oklahoma's first punt that in essence proved to be the
difference in the game. Just last year an ESPN panel voted that game as
the greatest in the history of college football and I concur. I would go
so far as to say it is my favorite sporting event of all time. It saddens
me to see what has become of Nebraska football in recent years after 40
years of dominance. I did follow the Buckeyes after my dad took the job at
Ohio State but my heart remained with the Huskers.
I enjoyed the discussion on your track experience, got a chuckle there
with you seeing the exhaust jets of Johnny the Jet Rodgers. Those Omaha
high schools seemed to have a lot of talent. Gayle Sayers, Johnny Rodgers,
Eric Crouch were all sprinters in Omaha H.S. track, and ended up in the
college hall of fame.
I got to see Gale Sayers in high school while I was still in grade school.
He played for Central and this was against Creighton Prep. At the time,
the high school was still on the university campus and they had a huge
double decked stadium for the high school. I don't know if the university
ever fielded a football team. In the final minutes, Prep led by a few
points when Central got the ball and started giving it to Sayers. Good
idea. They drove it to midfield with less than a minute. Sayers ran to his
left then suddenly pulled up and threw a left handed pass to a receiver
who was all alone at the 5 yard line. He dropped the ball and Prep held on
to win. Sayers had an older brother who was even faster than he was. If I
remember right, he was the only man ever to beat Bob Hayes in a sprint. I
decided to google it to confirm if my memory is correct and it turned out
it is.
https://www.dataomaha.com/neb100/player/36
A lot of people don't remember that in the 1960s, Bob Hayes was as
dominant a sprinter in the 1960s as Usain Bolt has been the past decade
although I don't remember Hayes running the 200. I would bet he is still
the fastest man ever to play in the NFL.
Post by Brian Roselle
If your 880 relay team was comprised of Sayers,
Rodgers, Crouch, and Corbett it would have been one for the ages!
With those other guys running the first three legs, even I might have held
on to win.
Bob Gibson was another Hall of Fame athlete to come out of Omaha. Like
Rodgers, he attended Tech. I just saw a list of athletes who passed away
this year and discovered both Gibson and Gale Sayers left us this year.
Post by Brian Roselle
Regarding the camera and other misc parameters, I did find some references
I had used earlier. These were used for some timing breakdowns for the
first shot awhile back, but many also apply to the second shot. The
intent was not to be perfectly exact since high precision was not known,
but try to get a close enough estimate to see how things may have
unfolded. The direct line of sight distances through air were estimated
with the help of Google Earth and best estimate on limo street location I
had at the particular time. Maybe some numbers here can help or just be a
sanity check type of thing for your analysis. If you find something that
looks way out of whack, or something I missed let me know.
Average of 1/18.3 sec/frame or ~0.055 sec/frame : This seems to be the
widely accepted value most use.
-An old manual mentioned 1/35 sec for a standard run setting
-A Zavada report mentioned exposure at 1/40 sec http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/Z%20Disk/Zapruder%20Abraham%20Film%20Authenticity%20Controversy/Item%2012.pdf
I think I would go with the Zavada report. That gives a frame exposure
on-time of 0.025 sec and by difference from 0.055, an off-time of 0.030
sec. This looks to give an exposure on-time/off-time ratio of around 0.46.
So each exposed frame wasn’t far off of being about half of the
total frame time.
Direct distance from 6th floor window to JFK limo at Z222; ~188 ft
Direct distance from 6th floor window to JFK limo at z313; ~265 ft
Direct distance from 6th floor window to Zapruder ~268 ft
6th floor window height above street; ~60 ft
Speed of sound; ~1123 ft/sec
I saw something yesterday that indicates the speed of sound varies with
the temperature. Thee are other variables as well. Humidity, wind speed
and direction. etc. I just plugged in some temperature values and took the
default for the other variables. It indicated a SOS of 1117 fps at 60
degrees and 1127 fps at 70 degrees. For my calculations, I thought 1125
would be close enough.
Post by Brian Roselle
Muzzle velocity of bullet; ~2165 ft/sec
Ballpark estimate on bullet velocity reduction rate thru air; ~ 1 ft/sec/ft
traveled
Second shot bullet velocity at JFK low neck strike; ~1977 ft/sec
Average 2nd shot bullet velocity over its flight; ~2071 ft/sec
I guesstimated 2000 fps. There are two many variables to get total
precision so I was satisfied using ballpark numbers.
Post by Brian Roselle
Zapruder startle reaction estimate; ~0.21 sec
Second shot Zapruder camera jiggle frame after his startle delay; ~z227.5
This is the primary reason we can't get absolute precision. The camera is
just too slow to achieve that. We don't know if key events happened early
in a frame, late in a frame, or in a gap between frames. That's why I was
satisfied with ballpark figures. Given what we have to work with, I think
precision to within one frame is the best we can do.
Post by Brian Roselle
Connally’s individual perception time (time to start his voluntary
head motions after hearing a complete surprise stimulus - applicable only
for the 1st shot); ~1.3 sec
Connally start of voluntary head motions in reaction to hearing the first
shot ; ~z150
My rough calculations are that the sound of the first shot would have
taken about 2 frames to reach Connally's ears. A shot at 150-151 would
have reached Connally at 152-153. That gives me a reaction time of 11-12
frames.
Post by Brian Roselle
I should mention that in tabulating the start of early Zapruder film
reactions, Ken Scearce provided independent data he separately gathered.
Early reaction frame numbers I reference are an average of my data and his
which we used to help piece together reactions and reaction time
estimates.
Like you said, getting a close enough estimate on the parameter values to
effectively calculate what had happened, to within a frame, is probably
about the best that we can do.
I think your parameter estimates for the second shot are good enough to do
that, so although we disagree on the parameters to use for the first shot,
as I said initially I think your second shot timing analysis of the bullet
striking Connally around z222 looks pretty good. If I had to guess I would
agree with you that the strike likely hit him inside a z222 +/- 1
timeframe window.
There is one element that we seem to have nothing but guesswork for and
that is the bulging of Connally's coat at Z224. I know some people think
that indicates the single bullet struck at Z224 but that doesn't jibe with
a startle reaction at Z226. There had to be more time. The earliest the
bullet could have struck was early Z223 with the reaction at late Z226.
That would cover 200 milliseconds. I think it's more probable the bullet
struck a little earlier, possibly even just before Z222. The Z227 jiggle
suggests a shot fired Z219-220 striking at Z221-222.
Getting back to the jacket bulge, I think it is almost certain the single
bullet had already passed by the time that frame was exposed. The reason I
say that is because if it passed during the exposure of that frame, the
area over the right side of Connally's chest would have been white for
part of the exposure. I think that would have appeared either gray or
blurred if that was the case. Instead it is solid black. That tells me the
bullet had gone through earlier. The question is, how much earlier. I wish
I had a definite answer. I know it wouldn't have occurred simultaneous
with the bullet passing. Would it have been one frame earlier or more?
Since the cloth offers so little resistance to the bullet, very little of
the bullet's energy would transfer to the cloth. I tried to find a video
of a bullet passing through cloth but had no luck. Most of them show a
bullet passing through wood or ballistic gel. I did find this one of
bullets passing through a variety of objects, all filled with some kind of
liquid.
http://youtu.be/emP5D9Klssg
In all of them, there was backsplash toward the shooter. Not as much as
went forward, but there was some. That would explain the tissue that ended
up on the trunk of the limo.
That timing is a tough one to really pinpoint but your analysis seems
pretty good as the bullet would likely have already passed through a way
by the time the jacket showed maximum displacement. Even if the wrist was
driven down by a bullet between z222 and z223, similarly a small delay in
observable motion of the wrist after strike might also come into play. In
any case you seem to be getting pretty close.

Based on your attached video showing backsplash, you may be right that
some level of backsplash at z313 might have gone on the trunk. Maybe
it’s also possible that some material going up fell back down when
the limo moved forward, or was assisted by the head wind at that time
estimated at gusting between 15 and 20 mph. The lady with the red rain
jacket (Hill?) had her red rain coat flare out like a flag about z308 just
before the z313 strike happened.

That video also shows the fastest way I have ever seen to scramble eggs!
Steve M. Galbraith
2020-12-23 21:16:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Corbett
Post by Brian Roselle
Post by John Corbett
Post by Brian Roselle
Post by John Corbett
Post by Brian Roselle
Post by John Corbett
I'm trying to figure just what Zapruder's reaction time would be. I'm am
forced to use ballpark figures because I don't have specific data. I'm
sure somewhere Zapruder's distance from the sniper's nest is documented
but I'm going to guesstimate 250 feet because JFK was 266 at the head shot
and Zapruder I believe was slightly closer. Also, the speed of sound
varies with temperature. I'm going to use 1125 fps which I think is pretty
close. using those figures. that works out to .2222...seconds for the
sound of the head shot to reach him. Now, when to start the clock? My
previous analysis indicated the shot was fired from late 310 to early 311.
I'll arbitrarily say it was the 310-311 gap. Once the sound reached
Zapruder, it would take him about another 200 milliseconds or .2 seconds
for his startle reaction. Add that to the amount of time it would take the
sound to reach him and we could expect a reaction .4222....seconds after
the shot was fired. Divide that by the length of one frame which is 1/18.3
and we get 7.7266666...... frames for a reaction by Zapruder. Starting
from the 310-311 gap that takes us right to frame 318 which is the one in
which the blurring began. It looks like it lasted about three frames.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z317.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z318.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z319.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z320.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z321.jpg
One variable which we can only guess at is how much the sight of seeing
JFK's head explode through his viewfinder would contribute to the camera
jiggle. He would have seen that a split second before hearing the sound.
Because Zapruder's distance from the rifle remained constant, we can
expect a similar reaction time for all three shots. It appears to me we
have three frame blurring from 158-160 and 227-229. Take a look and see if
you agree.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z157.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z158.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z159.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z160.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z161.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z226.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z227.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z228.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z229.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z230.jpg
What I find interesting is that Zapruder's startle reaction at frame 227
is one frame after the startle reaction exhibited by JFK and JBC. The one
frame difference can be attributed to JFK and JBC reacting to the bullet
impact which they would have felt a split second before the sound of the
shot reached Zarpruder. It all fits.
I know I have some physical reference data (distances, bullet velocity
estimates, etc) on that day’s events that I’d be more than
willing to see if I can dig up and help you on your second shot work in
any way I can. My filing system is not that great but I’ll see
what I can come up with and definitely let you know if I can find anything
that might interest you.
For this exercise, I think approximations make the point. I'll redo the
calculations if you can come up with more precise numbers, but I don't
think it will significantly alter the results.
Post by Brian Roselle
Well, this is funny, I just mentioned in another post something on
coincidences (implying one in particular was unlikely), but here on your
last post one immediately jumps up to bite me. You ran on an 880 yard
relay in high school in Nebraska. Regarding that Nebraska high school
track meet I mentioned where my reactions to starting were a little too
fast, that meet was a district meet near Omaha, and I think there were
some Omaha schools involved. It was also on an 880 yard relay race, but I
ran the starting leg because of fast, but occasionally apparently illegal,
starts. If only it was my relay team that beat you down, that would really
have made my day today. Unfortunately it’s unlikely that it was as
I was in a Lincoln Class B school at the time (spring 1971).
I was a middle distance runner. I had tried out to be a sprinter but was
only the fourth fastest and in most meets, we only entered 3 sprinters per
event. The reason they put more on the anchor leg was because I would be
training with the distance runners and couldn't practice passing the
baton so the freshman coach thought it would be better if I only had to do
one pass and thought it would be better for me to take the baton rather
than pass it off. As I remember the Omaha Tech team had about a two stride
lead as I got the baton. Did you ever have a dream where you were trying
to run as fast as you could be it felt like you were wearing lead shoes.
That was the feeling I had. The runner who I think was Johnny Rodgers was
moving away from me like I was standing still. I think he hit the tape
about the time I was making the final turn. It might not have been quite
that bad but it seemed like it to me. I still remember the freshman coach
doubling over with laughter after I got to the finish line. I think he
knew it was coming because he had seen what this kid had been doing in
the individual events. That was spring of 1966 and I graduated 1969
which is the same year Johnny Rodgers graduated from Tech. My memory is
that the runner I ran against looked very similar to Rodgers. Of course
I mostly saw him from behind. I just remember thinking the first time I
saw him interviewed after he won the Heisman in 1972 was that he looked
like the guy I had run against and I wondered if he was one and the same.
I tried to look up his history on Wikipedia but it only covers his college
years and beyond. I do know that he went to Omaha Tech and that was the
school we were running against that day.
Just last night I found on Youtube the ESPN program from 2001 in which
they did a 30th anniversary retrospective on the 1971 Nebraska-Oklahoma
game dubbed the Game of the Century. Rodgers made that incredible punt
return touchdown on Oklahoma's first punt that in essence proved to be the
difference in the game. Just last year an ESPN panel voted that game as
the greatest in the history of college football and I concur. I would go
so far as to say it is my favorite sporting event of all time. It saddens
me to see what has become of Nebraska football in recent years after 40
years of dominance. I did follow the Buckeyes after my dad took the job at
Ohio State but my heart remained with the Huskers.
I enjoyed the discussion on your track experience, got a chuckle there
with you seeing the exhaust jets of Johnny the Jet Rodgers. Those Omaha
high schools seemed to have a lot of talent. Gayle Sayers, Johnny Rodgers,
Eric Crouch were all sprinters in Omaha H.S. track, and ended up in the
college hall of fame.
I got to see Gale Sayers in high school while I was still in grade school.
He played for Central and this was against Creighton Prep. At the time,
the high school was still on the university campus and they had a huge
double decked stadium for the high school. I don't know if the university
ever fielded a football team. In the final minutes, Prep led by a few
points when Central got the ball and started giving it to Sayers. Good
idea. They drove it to midfield with less than a minute. Sayers ran to his
left then suddenly pulled up and threw a left handed pass to a receiver
who was all alone at the 5 yard line. He dropped the ball and Prep held on
to win. Sayers had an older brother who was even faster than he was. If I
remember right, he was the only man ever to beat Bob Hayes in a sprint. I
decided to google it to confirm if my memory is correct and it turned out
it is.
https://www.dataomaha.com/neb100/player/36
A lot of people don't remember that in the 1960s, Bob Hayes was as
dominant a sprinter in the 1960s as Usain Bolt has been the past decade
although I don't remember Hayes running the 200. I would bet he is still
the fastest man ever to play in the NFL.
Post by Brian Roselle
If your 880 relay team was comprised of Sayers,
Rodgers, Crouch, and Corbett it would have been one for the ages!
With those other guys running the first three legs, even I might have held
on to win.
Bob Gibson was another Hall of Fame athlete to come out of Omaha. Like
Rodgers, he attended Tech. I just saw a list of athletes who passed away
this year and discovered both Gibson and Gale Sayers left us this year.
Post by Brian Roselle
Regarding the camera and other misc parameters, I did find some references
I had used earlier. These were used for some timing breakdowns for the
first shot awhile back, but many also apply to the second shot. The
intent was not to be perfectly exact since high precision was not known,
but try to get a close enough estimate to see how things may have
unfolded. The direct line of sight distances through air were estimated
with the help of Google Earth and best estimate on limo street location I
had at the particular time. Maybe some numbers here can help or just be a
sanity check type of thing for your analysis. If you find something that
looks way out of whack, or something I missed let me know.
Average of 1/18.3 sec/frame or ~0.055 sec/frame : This seems to be the
widely accepted value most use.
-An old manual mentioned 1/35 sec for a standard run setting
-A Zavada report mentioned exposure at 1/40 sec http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/Z%20Disk/Zapruder%20Abraham%20Film%20Authenticity%20Controversy/Item%2012.pdf
I think I would go with the Zavada report. That gives a frame exposure
on-time of 0.025 sec and by difference from 0.055, an off-time of 0.030
sec. This looks to give an exposure on-time/off-time ratio of around 0.46.
So each exposed frame wasn’t far off of being about half of the
total frame time.
Direct distance from 6th floor window to JFK limo at Z222; ~188 ft
Direct distance from 6th floor window to JFK limo at z313; ~265 ft
Direct distance from 6th floor window to Zapruder ~268 ft
6th floor window height above street; ~60 ft
Speed of sound; ~1123 ft/sec
I saw something yesterday that indicates the speed of sound varies with
the temperature. Thee are other variables as well. Humidity, wind speed
and direction. etc. I just plugged in some temperature values and took the
default for the other variables. It indicated a SOS of 1117 fps at 60
degrees and 1127 fps at 70 degrees. For my calculations, I thought 1125
would be close enough.
Post by Brian Roselle
Muzzle velocity of bullet; ~2165 ft/sec
Ballpark estimate on bullet velocity reduction rate thru air; ~ 1 ft/sec/ft
traveled
Second shot bullet velocity at JFK low neck strike; ~1977 ft/sec
Average 2nd shot bullet velocity over its flight; ~2071 ft/sec
I guesstimated 2000 fps. There are two many variables to get total
precision so I was satisfied using ballpark numbers.
Post by Brian Roselle
Zapruder startle reaction estimate; ~0.21 sec
Second shot Zapruder camera jiggle frame after his startle delay; ~z227.5
This is the primary reason we can't get absolute precision. The camera is
just too slow to achieve that. We don't know if key events happened early
in a frame, late in a frame, or in a gap between frames. That's why I was
satisfied with ballpark figures. Given what we have to work with, I think
precision to within one frame is the best we can do.
Post by Brian Roselle
Connally’s individual perception time (time to start his voluntary
head motions after hearing a complete surprise stimulus - applicable only
for the 1st shot); ~1.3 sec
Connally start of voluntary head motions in reaction to hearing the first
shot ; ~z150
My rough calculations are that the sound of the first shot would have
taken about 2 frames to reach Connally's ears. A shot at 150-151 would
have reached Connally at 152-153. That gives me a reaction time of 11-12
frames.
Post by Brian Roselle
I should mention that in tabulating the start of early Zapruder film
reactions, Ken Scearce provided independent data he separately gathered.
Early reaction frame numbers I reference are an average of my data and his
which we used to help piece together reactions and reaction time
estimates.
Like you said, getting a close enough estimate on the parameter values to
effectively calculate what had happened, to within a frame, is probably
about the best that we can do.
I think your parameter estimates for the second shot are good enough to do
that, so although we disagree on the parameters to use for the first shot,
as I said initially I think your second shot timing analysis of the bullet
striking Connally around z222 looks pretty good. If I had to guess I would
agree with you that the strike likely hit him inside a z222 +/- 1
timeframe window.
There is one element that we seem to have nothing but guesswork for and
that is the bulging of Connally's coat at Z224. I know some people think
that indicates the single bullet struck at Z224 but that doesn't jibe with
a startle reaction at Z226. There had to be more time. The earliest the
bullet could have struck was early Z223 with the reaction at late Z226.
That would cover 200 milliseconds. I think it's more probable the bullet
struck a little earlier, possibly even just before Z222. The Z227 jiggle
suggests a shot fired Z219-220 striking at Z221-222.
Getting back to the jacket bulge, I think it is almost certain the single
bullet had already passed by the time that frame was exposed. The reason I
say that is because if it passed during the exposure of that frame, the
area over the right side of Connally's chest would have been white for
part of the exposure. I think that would have appeared either gray or
blurred if that was the case. Instead it is solid black. That tells me the
bullet had gone through earlier. The question is, how much earlier. I wish
I had a definite answer. I know it wouldn't have occurred simultaneous
with the bullet passing. Would it have been one frame earlier or more?
Since the cloth offers so little resistance to the bullet, very little of
the bullet's energy would transfer to the cloth. I tried to find a video
of a bullet passing through cloth but had no luck. Most of them show a
bullet passing through wood or ballistic gel. I did find this one of
bullets passing through a variety of objects, all filled with some kind of
liquid.
http://youtu.be/emP5D9Klssg
In all of them, there was backsplash toward the shooter. Not as much as
went forward, but there was some. That would explain the tissue that ended
up on the trunk of the limo.
I don't think the bulge was caused by the bullet passing through his
jacket; or solely by it. The doctors said that the bullet shattered his
rib and caused it to splinter into "buckshot" type pieces of bone. That
bone and blood and tissue went through his skin and all of that material
likely caused the bulge. Or were major contributors.

If you look at his shirt you can see specks of blood above and to the
right of the nipple/exit area.

Here's a closeup (the shirt was dry-cleaned):
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6= /5500/10317805676_e615a23129_b.jpg
John Corbett
2020-12-24 18:17:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by John Corbett
Post by Brian Roselle
Post by John Corbett
Post by Brian Roselle
Post by John Corbett
Post by Brian Roselle
Post by John Corbett
I'm trying to figure just what Zapruder's reaction time would be. I'm am
forced to use ballpark figures because I don't have specific data. I'm
sure somewhere Zapruder's distance from the sniper's nest is documented
but I'm going to guesstimate 250 feet because JFK was 266 at the head shot
and Zapruder I believe was slightly closer. Also, the speed of sound
varies with temperature. I'm going to use 1125 fps which I think is pretty
close. using those figures. that works out to .2222...seconds for the
sound of the head shot to reach him. Now, when to start the clock? My
previous analysis indicated the shot was fired from late 310 to early 311.
I'll arbitrarily say it was the 310-311 gap. Once the sound reached
Zapruder, it would take him about another 200 milliseconds or .2 seconds
for his startle reaction. Add that to the amount of time it would take the
sound to reach him and we could expect a reaction .4222....seconds after
the shot was fired. Divide that by the length of one frame which is 1/18.3
and we get 7.7266666...... frames for a reaction by Zapruder. Starting
from the 310-311 gap that takes us right to frame 318 which is the one in
which the blurring began. It looks like it lasted about three frames.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z317.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z318.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z319.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z320.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z321.jpg
One variable which we can only guess at is how much the sight of seeing
JFK's head explode through his viewfinder would contribute to the camera
jiggle. He would have seen that a split second before hearing the sound.
Because Zapruder's distance from the rifle remained constant, we can
expect a similar reaction time for all three shots. It appears to me we
have three frame blurring from 158-160 and 227-229. Take a look and see if
you agree.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z157.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z158.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z159.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z160.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z161.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z226.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z227.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z228.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z229.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z230.jpg
What I find interesting is that Zapruder's startle reaction at frame 227
is one frame after the startle reaction exhibited by JFK and JBC. The one
frame difference can be attributed to JFK and JBC reacting to the bullet
impact which they would have felt a split second before the sound of the
shot reached Zarpruder. It all fits.
I know I have some physical reference data (distances, bullet velocity
estimates, etc) on that day’s events that I’d be more than
willing to see if I can dig up and help you on your second shot work in
any way I can. My filing system is not that great but I’ll see
what I can come up with and definitely let you know if I can find anything
that might interest you.
For this exercise, I think approximations make the point. I'll redo the
calculations if you can come up with more precise numbers, but I don't
think it will significantly alter the results.
Post by Brian Roselle
Well, this is funny, I just mentioned in another post something on
coincidences (implying one in particular was unlikely), but here on your
last post one immediately jumps up to bite me. You ran on an 880 yard
relay in high school in Nebraska. Regarding that Nebraska high school
track meet I mentioned where my reactions to starting were a little too
fast, that meet was a district meet near Omaha, and I think there were
some Omaha schools involved. It was also on an 880 yard relay race, but I
ran the starting leg because of fast, but occasionally apparently illegal,
starts. If only it was my relay team that beat you down, that would really
have made my day today. Unfortunately it’s unlikely that it was as
I was in a Lincoln Class B school at the time (spring 1971).
I was a middle distance runner. I had tried out to be a sprinter but was
only the fourth fastest and in most meets, we only entered 3 sprinters per
event. The reason they put more on the anchor leg was because I would be
training with the distance runners and couldn't practice passing the
baton so the freshman coach thought it would be better if I only had to do
one pass and thought it would be better for me to take the baton rather
than pass it off. As I remember the Omaha Tech team had about a two stride
lead as I got the baton. Did you ever have a dream where you were trying
to run as fast as you could be it felt like you were wearing lead shoes.
That was the feeling I had. The runner who I think was Johnny Rodgers was
moving away from me like I was standing still. I think he hit the tape
about the time I was making the final turn. It might not have been quite
that bad but it seemed like it to me. I still remember the freshman coach
doubling over with laughter after I got to the finish line. I think he
knew it was coming because he had seen what this kid had been doing in
the individual events. That was spring of 1966 and I graduated 1969
which is the same year Johnny Rodgers graduated from Tech. My memory is
that the runner I ran against looked very similar to Rodgers. Of course
I mostly saw him from behind. I just remember thinking the first time I
saw him interviewed after he won the Heisman in 1972 was that he looked
like the guy I had run against and I wondered if he was one and the same.
I tried to look up his history on Wikipedia but it only covers his college
years and beyond. I do know that he went to Omaha Tech and that was the
school we were running against that day.
Just last night I found on Youtube the ESPN program from 2001 in which
they did a 30th anniversary retrospective on the 1971 Nebraska-Oklahoma
game dubbed the Game of the Century. Rodgers made that incredible punt
return touchdown on Oklahoma's first punt that in essence proved to be the
difference in the game. Just last year an ESPN panel voted that game as
the greatest in the history of college football and I concur. I would go
so far as to say it is my favorite sporting event of all time. It saddens
me to see what has become of Nebraska football in recent years after 40
years of dominance. I did follow the Buckeyes after my dad took the job at
Ohio State but my heart remained with the Huskers.
I enjoyed the discussion on your track experience, got a chuckle there
with you seeing the exhaust jets of Johnny the Jet Rodgers. Those Omaha
high schools seemed to have a lot of talent. Gayle Sayers, Johnny Rodgers,
Eric Crouch were all sprinters in Omaha H.S. track, and ended up in the
college hall of fame.
I got to see Gale Sayers in high school while I was still in grade school.
He played for Central and this was against Creighton Prep. At the time,
the high school was still on the university campus and they had a huge
double decked stadium for the high school. I don't know if the university
ever fielded a football team. In the final minutes, Prep led by a few
points when Central got the ball and started giving it to Sayers. Good
idea. They drove it to midfield with less than a minute. Sayers ran to his
left then suddenly pulled up and threw a left handed pass to a receiver
who was all alone at the 5 yard line. He dropped the ball and Prep held on
to win. Sayers had an older brother who was even faster than he was. If I
remember right, he was the only man ever to beat Bob Hayes in a sprint. I
decided to google it to confirm if my memory is correct and it turned out
it is.
https://www.dataomaha.com/neb100/player/36
A lot of people don't remember that in the 1960s, Bob Hayes was as
dominant a sprinter in the 1960s as Usain Bolt has been the past decade
although I don't remember Hayes running the 200. I would bet he is still
the fastest man ever to play in the NFL.
Post by Brian Roselle
If your 880 relay team was comprised of Sayers,
Rodgers, Crouch, and Corbett it would have been one for the ages!
With those other guys running the first three legs, even I might have held
on to win.
Bob Gibson was another Hall of Fame athlete to come out of Omaha. Like
Rodgers, he attended Tech. I just saw a list of athletes who passed away
this year and discovered both Gibson and Gale Sayers left us this year.
Post by Brian Roselle
Regarding the camera and other misc parameters, I did find some references
I had used earlier. These were used for some timing breakdowns for the
first shot awhile back, but many also apply to the second shot. The
intent was not to be perfectly exact since high precision was not known,
but try to get a close enough estimate to see how things may have
unfolded. The direct line of sight distances through air were estimated
with the help of Google Earth and best estimate on limo street location I
had at the particular time. Maybe some numbers here can help or just be a
sanity check type of thing for your analysis. If you find something that
looks way out of whack, or something I missed let me know.
Average of 1/18.3 sec/frame or ~0.055 sec/frame : This seems to be the
widely accepted value most use.
-An old manual mentioned 1/35 sec for a standard run setting
-A Zavada report mentioned exposure at 1/40 sec http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/Z%20Disk/Zapruder%20Abraham%20Film%20Authenticity%20Controversy/Item%2012.pdf
I think I would go with the Zavada report. That gives a frame exposure
on-time of 0.025 sec and by difference from 0.055, an off-time of 0.030
sec. This looks to give an exposure on-time/off-time ratio of around 0.46.
So each exposed frame wasn’t far off of being about half of the
total frame time.
Direct distance from 6th floor window to JFK limo at Z222; ~188 ft
Direct distance from 6th floor window to JFK limo at z313; ~265 ft
Direct distance from 6th floor window to Zapruder ~268 ft
6th floor window height above street; ~60 ft
Speed of sound; ~1123 ft/sec
I saw something yesterday that indicates the speed of sound varies with
the temperature. Thee are other variables as well. Humidity, wind speed
and direction. etc. I just plugged in some temperature values and took the
default for the other variables. It indicated a SOS of 1117 fps at 60
degrees and 1127 fps at 70 degrees. For my calculations, I thought 1125
would be close enough.
Post by Brian Roselle
Muzzle velocity of bullet; ~2165 ft/sec
Ballpark estimate on bullet velocity reduction rate thru air; ~ 1 ft/sec/ft
traveled
Second shot bullet velocity at JFK low neck strike; ~1977 ft/sec
Average 2nd shot bullet velocity over its flight; ~2071 ft/sec
I guesstimated 2000 fps. There are two many variables to get total
precision so I was satisfied using ballpark numbers.
Post by Brian Roselle
Zapruder startle reaction estimate; ~0.21 sec
Second shot Zapruder camera jiggle frame after his startle delay; ~z227.5
This is the primary reason we can't get absolute precision. The camera is
just too slow to achieve that. We don't know if key events happened early
in a frame, late in a frame, or in a gap between frames. That's why I was
satisfied with ballpark figures. Given what we have to work with, I think
precision to within one frame is the best we can do.
Post by Brian Roselle
Connally’s individual perception time (time to start his voluntary
head motions after hearing a complete surprise stimulus - applicable only
for the 1st shot); ~1.3 sec
Connally start of voluntary head motions in reaction to hearing the first
shot ; ~z150
My rough calculations are that the sound of the first shot would have
taken about 2 frames to reach Connally's ears. A shot at 150-151 would
have reached Connally at 152-153. That gives me a reaction time of 11-12
frames.
Post by Brian Roselle
I should mention that in tabulating the start of early Zapruder film
reactions, Ken Scearce provided independent data he separately gathered.
Early reaction frame numbers I reference are an average of my data and his
which we used to help piece together reactions and reaction time
estimates.
Like you said, getting a close enough estimate on the parameter values to
effectively calculate what had happened, to within a frame, is probably
about the best that we can do.
I think your parameter estimates for the second shot are good enough to do
that, so although we disagree on the parameters to use for the first shot,
as I said initially I think your second shot timing analysis of the bullet
striking Connally around z222 looks pretty good. If I had to guess I would
agree with you that the strike likely hit him inside a z222 +/- 1
timeframe window.
There is one element that we seem to have nothing but guesswork for and
that is the bulging of Connally's coat at Z224. I know some people think
that indicates the single bullet struck at Z224 but that doesn't jibe with
a startle reaction at Z226. There had to be more time. The earliest the
bullet could have struck was early Z223 with the reaction at late Z226.
That would cover 200 milliseconds. I think it's more probable the bullet
struck a little earlier, possibly even just before Z222. The Z227 jiggle
suggests a shot fired Z219-220 striking at Z221-222.
Getting back to the jacket bulge, I think it is almost certain the single
bullet had already passed by the time that frame was exposed. The reason I
say that is because if it passed during the exposure of that frame, the
area over the right side of Connally's chest would have been white for
part of the exposure. I think that would have appeared either gray or
blurred if that was the case. Instead it is solid black. That tells me the
bullet had gone through earlier. The question is, how much earlier. I wish
I had a definite answer. I know it wouldn't have occurred simultaneous
with the bullet passing. Would it have been one frame earlier or more?
Since the cloth offers so little resistance to the bullet, very little of
the bullet's energy would transfer to the cloth. I tried to find a video
of a bullet passing through cloth but had no luck. Most of them show a
bullet passing through wood or ballistic gel. I did find this one of
bullets passing through a variety of objects, all filled with some kind of
liquid.
http://youtu.be/emP5D9Klssg
In all of them, there was backsplash toward the shooter. Not as much as
went forward, but there was some. That would explain the tissue that ended
up on the trunk of the limo.
I don't think the bulge was caused by the bullet passing through his
jacket; or solely by it. The doctors said that the bullet shattered his
rib and caused it to splinter into "buckshot" type pieces of bone. That
bone and blood and tissue went through his skin and all of that material
likely caused the bulge. Or were major contributors.
If you look at his shirt you can see specks of blood above and to the
right of the nipple/exit area.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6 /5500/10317805676_e615a23129_b.jpg
The key question is how much of a delay there would be between when the
bullet passed through the lapel and the jacket bulging. The bone splinters
would not have the velocity of the bullet but because they did not
perforate the jacket, they would have been pushing the lapel forward.
Since the jacket was inert when struck it would offer some resistance to
the splinters that were pushing it but little to the bullet that passed
through it. How much of a delay in terms of frames there would be from
when the bullet struck and the jacket bulged could answer the question as
to when the bullet struck.
Brian Roselle
2020-12-25 19:22:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by John Corbett
Post by Brian Roselle
Post by John Corbett
Post by Brian Roselle
Post by John Corbett
Post by Brian Roselle
Post by John Corbett
I'm trying to figure just what Zapruder's reaction time would be. I'm am
forced to use ballpark figures because I don't have specific data. I'm
sure somewhere Zapruder's distance from the sniper's nest is documented
but I'm going to guesstimate 250 feet because JFK was 266 at the head shot
and Zapruder I believe was slightly closer. Also, the speed of sound
varies with temperature. I'm going to use 1125 fps which I think is pretty
close. using those figures. that works out to .2222...seconds for the
sound of the head shot to reach him. Now, when to start the clock? My
previous analysis indicated the shot was fired from late 310 to early 311.
I'll arbitrarily say it was the 310-311 gap. Once the sound reached
Zapruder, it would take him about another 200 milliseconds or .2 seconds
for his startle reaction. Add that to the amount of time it would take the
sound to reach him and we could expect a reaction .4222....seconds after
the shot was fired. Divide that by the length of one frame which is 1/18.3
and we get 7.7266666...... frames for a reaction by Zapruder. Starting
from the 310-311 gap that takes us right to frame 318 which is the one in
which the blurring began. It looks like it lasted about three frames.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z317.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z318.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z319.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z320.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z321.jpg
One variable which we can only guess at is how much the sight of seeing
JFK's head explode through his viewfinder would contribute to the camera
jiggle. He would have seen that a split second before hearing the sound.
Because Zapruder's distance from the rifle remained constant, we can
expect a similar reaction time for all three shots. It appears to me we
have three frame blurring from 158-160 and 227-229. Take a look and see if
you agree.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z157.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z158.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z159.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z160.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z161.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z226.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z227.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z228.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z229.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z230.jpg
What I find interesting is that Zapruder's startle reaction at frame 227
is one frame after the startle reaction exhibited by JFK and JBC. The one
frame difference can be attributed to JFK and JBC reacting to the bullet
impact which they would have felt a split second before the sound of the
shot reached Zarpruder. It all fits.
I know I have some physical reference data (distances, bullet velocity
estimates, etc) on that day’s events that I’d be more than
willing to see if I can dig up and help you on your second shot work in
any way I can. My filing system is not that great but I’ll see
what I can come up with and definitely let you know if I can find anything
that might interest you.
For this exercise, I think approximations make the point. I'll redo the
calculations if you can come up with more precise numbers, but I don't
think it will significantly alter the results.
Post by Brian Roselle
Well, this is funny, I just mentioned in another post something on
coincidences (implying one in particular was unlikely), but here on your
last post one immediately jumps up to bite me. You ran on an 880 yard
relay in high school in Nebraska. Regarding that Nebraska high school
track meet I mentioned where my reactions to starting were a little too
fast, that meet was a district meet near Omaha, and I think there were
some Omaha schools involved. It was also on an 880 yard relay race, but I
ran the starting leg because of fast, but occasionally apparently illegal,
starts. If only it was my relay team that beat you down, that would really
have made my day today. Unfortunately it’s unlikely that it was as
I was in a Lincoln Class B school at the time (spring 1971).
I was a middle distance runner. I had tried out to be a sprinter but was
only the fourth fastest and in most meets, we only entered 3 sprinters per
event. The reason they put more on the anchor leg was because I would be
training with the distance runners and couldn't practice passing the
baton so the freshman coach thought it would be better if I only had to do
one pass and thought it would be better for me to take the baton rather
than pass it off. As I remember the Omaha Tech team had about a two stride
lead as I got the baton. Did you ever have a dream where you were trying
to run as fast as you could be it felt like you were wearing lead shoes.
That was the feeling I had. The runner who I think was Johnny Rodgers was
moving away from me like I was standing still. I think he hit the tape
about the time I was making the final turn. It might not have been quite
that bad but it seemed like it to me. I still remember the freshman coach
doubling over with laughter after I got to the finish line. I think he
knew it was coming because he had seen what this kid had been doing in
the individual events. That was spring of 1966 and I graduated 1969
which is the same year Johnny Rodgers graduated from Tech. My memory is
that the runner I ran against looked very similar to Rodgers. Of course
I mostly saw him from behind. I just remember thinking the first time I
saw him interviewed after he won the Heisman in 1972 was that he looked
like the guy I had run against and I wondered if he was one and the same.
I tried to look up his history on Wikipedia but it only covers his college
years and beyond. I do know that he went to Omaha Tech and that was the
school we were running against that day.
Just last night I found on Youtube the ESPN program from 2001 in which
they did a 30th anniversary retrospective on the 1971 Nebraska-Oklahoma
game dubbed the Game of the Century. Rodgers made that incredible punt
return touchdown on Oklahoma's first punt that in essence proved to be the
difference in the game. Just last year an ESPN panel voted that game as
the greatest in the history of college football and I concur. I would go
so far as to say it is my favorite sporting event of all time. It saddens
me to see what has become of Nebraska football in recent years after 40
years of dominance. I did follow the Buckeyes after my dad took the job at
Ohio State but my heart remained with the Huskers.
I enjoyed the discussion on your track experience, got a chuckle there
with you seeing the exhaust jets of Johnny the Jet Rodgers. Those Omaha
high schools seemed to have a lot of talent. Gayle Sayers, Johnny Rodgers,
Eric Crouch were all sprinters in Omaha H.S. track, and ended up in the
college hall of fame.
I got to see Gale Sayers in high school while I was still in grade school.
He played for Central and this was against Creighton Prep. At the time,
the high school was still on the university campus and they had a huge
double decked stadium for the high school. I don't know if the university
ever fielded a football team. In the final minutes, Prep led by a few
points when Central got the ball and started giving it to Sayers. Good
idea. They drove it to midfield with less than a minute. Sayers ran to his
left then suddenly pulled up and threw a left handed pass to a receiver
who was all alone at the 5 yard line. He dropped the ball and Prep held on
to win. Sayers had an older brother who was even faster than he was. If I
remember right, he was the only man ever to beat Bob Hayes in a sprint. I
decided to google it to confirm if my memory is correct and it turned out
it is.
https://www.dataomaha.com/neb100/player/36
A lot of people don't remember that in the 1960s, Bob Hayes was as
dominant a sprinter in the 1960s as Usain Bolt has been the past decade
although I don't remember Hayes running the 200. I would bet he is still
the fastest man ever to play in the NFL.
Post by Brian Roselle
If your 880 relay team was comprised of Sayers,
Rodgers, Crouch, and Corbett it would have been one for the ages!
With those other guys running the first three legs, even I might have held
on to win.
Bob Gibson was another Hall of Fame athlete to come out of Omaha. Like
Rodgers, he attended Tech. I just saw a list of athletes who passed away
this year and discovered both Gibson and Gale Sayers left us this year.
Post by Brian Roselle
Regarding the camera and other misc parameters, I did find some references
I had used earlier. These were used for some timing breakdowns for the
first shot awhile back, but many also apply to the second shot. The
intent was not to be perfectly exact since high precision was not known,
but try to get a close enough estimate to see how things may have
unfolded. The direct line of sight distances through air were estimated
with the help of Google Earth and best estimate on limo street location I
had at the particular time. Maybe some numbers here can help or just be a
sanity check type of thing for your analysis. If you find something that
looks way out of whack, or something I missed let me know.
Average of 1/18.3 sec/frame or ~0.055 sec/frame : This seems to be the
widely accepted value most use.
-An old manual mentioned 1/35 sec for a standard run setting
-A Zavada report mentioned exposure at 1/40 sec http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/Z%20Disk/Zapruder%20Abraham%20Film%20Authenticity%20Controversy/Item%2012.pdf
I think I would go with the Zavada report. That gives a frame exposure
on-time of 0.025 sec and by difference from 0.055, an off-time of 0.030
sec. This looks to give an exposure on-time/off-time ratio of around 0.46.
So each exposed frame wasn’t far off of being about half of the
total frame time.
Direct distance from 6th floor window to JFK limo at Z222; ~188 ft
Direct distance from 6th floor window to JFK limo at z313; ~265 ft
Direct distance from 6th floor window to Zapruder ~268 ft
6th floor window height above street; ~60 ft
Speed of sound; ~1123 ft/sec
I saw something yesterday that indicates the speed of sound varies with
the temperature. Thee are other variables as well. Humidity, wind speed
and direction. etc. I just plugged in some temperature values and took the
default for the other variables. It indicated a SOS of 1117 fps at 60
degrees and 1127 fps at 70 degrees. For my calculations, I thought 1125
would be close enough.
Post by Brian Roselle
Muzzle velocity of bullet; ~2165 ft/sec
Ballpark estimate on bullet velocity reduction rate thru air; ~ 1 ft/sec/ft
traveled
Second shot bullet velocity at JFK low neck strike; ~1977 ft/sec
Average 2nd shot bullet velocity over its flight; ~2071 ft/sec
I guesstimated 2000 fps. There are two many variables to get total
precision so I was satisfied using ballpark numbers.
Post by Brian Roselle
Zapruder startle reaction estimate; ~0.21 sec
Second shot Zapruder camera jiggle frame after his startle delay; ~z227.5
This is the primary reason we can't get absolute precision. The camera is
just too slow to achieve that. We don't know if key events happened early
in a frame, late in a frame, or in a gap between frames. That's why I was
satisfied with ballpark figures. Given what we have to work with, I think
precision to within one frame is the best we can do.
Post by Brian Roselle
Connally’s individual perception time (time to start his voluntary
head motions after hearing a complete surprise stimulus - applicable only
for the 1st shot); ~1.3 sec
Connally start of voluntary head motions in reaction to hearing the first
shot ; ~z150
My rough calculations are that the sound of the first shot would have
taken about 2 frames to reach Connally's ears. A shot at 150-151 would
have reached Connally at 152-153. That gives me a reaction time of 11-12
frames.
Post by Brian Roselle
I should mention that in tabulating the start of early Zapruder film
reactions, Ken Scearce provided independent data he separately gathered.
Early reaction frame numbers I reference are an average of my data and his
which we used to help piece together reactions and reaction time
estimates.
Like you said, getting a close enough estimate on the parameter values to
effectively calculate what had happened, to within a frame, is probably
about the best that we can do.
I think your parameter estimates for the second shot are good enough to do
that, so although we disagree on the parameters to use for the first shot,
as I said initially I think your second shot timing analysis of the bullet
striking Connally around z222 looks pretty good. If I had to guess I would
agree with you that the strike likely hit him inside a z222 +/- 1
timeframe window.
There is one element that we seem to have nothing but guesswork for and
that is the bulging of Connally's coat at Z224. I know some people think
that indicates the single bullet struck at Z224 but that doesn't jibe with
a startle reaction at Z226. There had to be more time. The earliest the
bullet could have struck was early Z223 with the reaction at late Z226.
That would cover 200 milliseconds. I think it's more probable the bullet
struck a little earlier, possibly even just before Z222. The Z227 jiggle
suggests a shot fired Z219-220 striking at Z221-222.
Getting back to the jacket bulge, I think it is almost certain the single
bullet had already passed by the time that frame was exposed. The reason I
say that is because if it passed during the exposure of that frame, the
area over the right side of Connally's chest would have been white for
part of the exposure. I think that would have appeared either gray or
blurred if that was the case. Instead it is solid black. That tells me the
bullet had gone through earlier. The question is, how much earlier. I wish
I had a definite answer. I know it wouldn't have occurred simultaneous
with the bullet passing. Would it have been one frame earlier or more?
Since the cloth offers so little resistance to the bullet, very little of
the bullet's energy would transfer to the cloth. I tried to find a video
of a bullet passing through cloth but had no luck. Most of them show a
bullet passing through wood or ballistic gel. I did find this one of
bullets passing through a variety of objects, all filled with some kind of
liquid.
http://youtu.be/emP5D9Klssg
In all of them, there was backsplash toward the shooter. Not as much as
went forward, but there was some. That would explain the tissue that ended
up on the trunk of the limo.
I don't think the bulge was caused by the bullet passing through his
jacket; or solely by it. The doctors said that the bullet shattered his
rib and caused it to splinter into "buckshot" type pieces of bone. That
bone and blood and tissue went through his skin and all of that material
likely caused the bulge. Or were major contributors.
If you look at his shirt you can see specks of blood above and to the
right of the nipple/exit area.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6 /5500/10317805676_e615a23129_b.jpg
Steve,
That link didn’t work for me, but I found another one that I think shows what you are talking about.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/exhibit-show-connallys-clothing-jfk-shot-210915107.html

On the close up of the shirt I see what you are saying. There seems to be
a debris field to the right of the bullet exit hole. I could see how it
might play a role in pushing out on the shirt along with the suit/lapel.

From what you say, perhaps a delay in seeing the observed gross jacket
movement after bullet transit could be more related to the speed of a
debris field exiting the chest as compared to the exit speed of the bullet
after strike, but I’m not sure what they would be.

The third shot obviously has different dynamics that this, but I have
heard estimates on the exit bullet fragment velocities at z313 at >800
ft/sec, and the debris field including bone fragments seen in z313 was
something like 85 mph. (although I’m not sure if I remember the
85mph right). But if so, the bullet fragments there would be going
something like 7 times faster than the bulk debris field it left behind at
exit.
Rusty Sites
2020-12-26 03:56:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Corbett
The FBI determine that Zapruder's camera ran at an average speed of 18.3
frames per second. Rounding out to four decimal places that comes to an
average of .0546 seconds per frame. However, each frame is not exposed for
that length of time. Movie film is simply a string of rapid fire still
photos which require a continuous series of starts and stops with the
frame being exposed during the stops with no exposure being made while the
film advances to expose the next frame. I think I read a long time ago
that each frame is exposed for 60% of the .0546 seconds follow by a gap
of 40% of the .0546 seconds. I can't find a reference to confirm if that
is true or whether this is just a faulty memory. Assuming it is true and
again rounding out to four decimal places, that means a frame is exposed
for .0328 seconds and advanced for .0219 seconds during which the camera
is not recording the action. Because the bullets would require only a
couple milliseconds to pass through the bodies of JFK and JBC, that means
that either of the shots which struck JFK could have hit him during the
exposure of a frame or during the gap between frames. The head shot could
have struck either during the exposure of frame 313 or in the gap between
312 and 313 with frame 313 showing us only the aftermath of the strike. It
is less definite as to when the single bullet struck and if it did strike
during the exposure of a frame, we don't know if it struck early during
the exposure, late or somewhere in the middle. This makes it a bit more
difficult to determine precisely when the shot was fired and when it
struck. We are left to analyze clues to determine the best fit for those
clues. The clues we have are the bulging of the JBC's jacket, and the
jiggle of Zapruder's camera at frame 227. The jiggle from head shot
occurred about 7 frames after the shot was fired. Since Zapruder was a
constant distance from the rifle, we could expect a similar amount of
frames between the shot being fired and the jiggle. That would indicate
the single bullet shot was likely fired during Z220 or the gap before or
after the exposure of that frame striking a couple frames later. The
bulging of JBC's jacket at Z224 happened after the bullet passed through
it. What we aren't sure of is how much of lag there was between the bullet
passing through and the jacket bulging. It seems to indicate a strike
about 223. The simultaneous reaction by JFK and JBC at 226 would have
occurred roughly 3-4 frames after the bullet passed through them. That
reaction could have begun in the 225-226 gap, late in the exposure of 226
or somewhere in between. What we are left with are three approximations
and it seems to me the best fit for all three of these approximations
would be the bullet strike either in the gap between 222-223 or early in
the 223 exposure.
Determining the precise instant of the single bullet strike is not
necessary for proving the validity of the SBT but it needs to be shown
that there is a plausible time frame for when that bullet struck. It think
the above analysis accomplishes that. In 1964 the WC gave us a range of
210-225 for when the single bullet could have struck. Given the advantage
of time and better technology, I think we can establish a much tighter
time frame for when that bullet struck.
I would be interested to see how others analyze these clues.
Here are some clues which I think are important for determining when
Connally was hit.

1) Everything Connally did after he came out from behind the sign was to
see JFK or see him better until he abruptly falls back about 285,
starts rolling his head back and forth, and doesn't try to see JFK
anymore. Perhaps you find some small event between 222 and 230 that you
think shows he is hit but after that you have 3-4 seconds where
Connally does not appear to be behaving as if he is hit and certainly
not like he has shattered ribs. How does that not strongly argue
against him being hit when you think he was? One of my guiding
principles is, once they're hit, they stay hit. Another clue is that,
in his hospital interview, Connally said he turned and saw JFK was
slumped before he was hit. It doesn't seem possible that Connally
could have seen JFK until well after 240.

2) Right after 285, both women move briskly towards their husbands and
become focused on them. The driver, who has been looking back since we
could first see him, turns to the front only to turn back around
shortly after that. It sure looks like something happened there.

3) Connally's wrist and hand can't be seen at 285. The camera has moved
up and nothing below his chin is visible. Shortly before that, they
are visible and at that time, he has his arm against his chest in about
the position to line up the entry wound on his wrist with the exit
wound on his chest. Dr. Gregory treated Connally's wrist wound after
others had treated his chest wound. He had no reason to connect the
chest wound with the wrist wound or to believe that the same bullet
caused both. He identified a wound on the palm as an exit wound even
though his characterization of it, a slit that did not gape, does not
sound at all like an exit wound. What Gregory was sure of was the
wrist wound was one of entrance. He inferred falsely that palm wound
must be the exit wound. There is a cleft in the heal of the hand that
leads right to the palm wound area. The hat would have been protecting
most of Connally's hand but there would have been a little path to the
palm. The exiting bullet and debris would have slammed into the radius
bone and splattered. Some piece went dowm that little path and cut
Connally's hand.


About that "jacket bulge". I think the history is that before
about 1998 nobody had anything but low quality frames. In some of those,
it really looked like the lapel was flipping over. Then much better
frames became available and it did not look like a lapel flip anymore.
Some were well trained to see a lapel flip and continued to see it that
way.
Others shifted to jacket bulge. Nobody seemed to consider that it might
be something else entirely. The only argument I have ever heard for the
explanation being some sort of clothing movement is, "What else could it
be?" There is definitely something else it could be.
Nobody seems to notice that in the "lapel flip" frames, 222 and
223, there is also a specular reflection coming from the handhold in front
of Connally that goes dark in 224 just like Connally's chest. In fact, on
close examination, the illumination of both the handhold and the chest go
through the same states in 222, 223, and 224. Dim, bright, then off. This
clip has frames 222-232.

http://joliraja.com/LapelFlip/MainAnimation/222-233.html

There are four images in the jpg below.

Loading Image...

From left to right the crops are from a motorcade picture that shows the
handhold fairly well, and Zapruder frames 248, 223, and 222.
The handhold is a cylinder that is vertical at its base and then curves
around to the top part which is not truly horizontal but slopes up toward
the center of the limo. Here is a page on how sunlight is reflected off a
cylinder. If you go there, just use the > and < buttons and not "play" to
advance the slide show at the top. (If you don't know about the law of
reflection, you will probably need to find out. It's pretty simple.)

http://joliraja.com/CylinderReflect/CylinderReflect.html

To summarize the page, a cylinder is curved in two dimensions but straight
in the other. If the cylinder is in a vertical position, the straight
dimension is vertical and the surface normals are all horizontal. (I'm
not considering the top or bottom here) The horizontal component of an
incident ray contributes only to the horizontal component of the reflected
ray but the curvature of the cylinder reflects parallel rays in different
direction depending on where the ray strikes. The vertical component is
unchanged between the incident and reflected rays. A reflection of
sunlight from the cylinder can be seen over a wide range of horizontal
angles but in only one vertical direction. This means it is not really
possible to locate the source of a reflection horizontally but it can be
located precisely vertically if the orientation of the cylinder is known.
The sun was about 38 degrees above horizontal at the time of the
assassination so sunlight would have been reflected down at that same
angle from a vertical cylinder. The handhold is tilted about 3 degrees
with the slope of the road but that tilt makes light reflect a bit lower
in the horizontal direction of Zapruder. Zapruder's position is up at
about 5.5 degrees so it isn't close. The angle is off by more than 40
degrees. If the specular in 222 and 223 is coming from the vertical part
of the handhold then that light can't be coming directly from the sun.
The curved part, or corner for short, is curved in all three dimensions
so it sprays light over a wide range of angles in three dimensions. The
surface normals change a lot in a short distance so observers over a wide
range of positions see a reflection from what seems to be the same place.
Because the light is spread more widely, the reflection is not as bright
as from the vertical part. When the hat first becomes clearly visible in
frame 230, it is hiding the handhold but, shortly after that, there is no
specular on the handhold. It remains dark until 247 when a partially
formed version of the reflection seen in 248 appears. The reflection
remains virtually the same until the hand hold disappears below the frame
except when it is behind the lamp post and, after it appears for one frame
on the other side of the post, when it disappears for two frames while
Kellerman is leaning back.
That reflection is from the corner which is in Kellerman's shadow in
222-246. Either the car turned enough or Kellerman moved enough to move
Kellerman's shadow off the corner. Most of that can be seen here.

http://joliraja.com/Animations/Z263-305/263-305.html

The croppings of 222 and 223 are not very good but, in a side by side
comparison, the specular in those frames is lower, bigger, and brighter
than the one in 248 and lower in 222 than in 223. A very small change in
incidence angle would move the specular up or down the vertical part of
the handhold. The film is prone to "blooming" where bright spots are much
bigger in the image than in real life. This is caused by light moving
parallel to the film surface. A bigger bright spot is sometimes just a
brighter bright spot. Either way, the specular is quite bright in 222 and
223. My conclusion is that the specular in 222 and 223 is from the
vertical part of the handhold and thus the light could not have come
directly from the sun but must have been reflected from somewhere.
To be seen by Zapruder, the light would have to be traveling up in the
range of 7-8 degrees or 4-5 degrees in limo coordinates. If the light
came from the front and traveled more or less parallel to the side of the
car, it could pass between the window frame, which may have the weird
stripey thing on it, and the handhold with the specular, and illuminate
Connally's chest. The car turning would cause reflections to change and
move. If a curved surface was involved, it might not have to turn much.
The chrome at the base of the windshield seems like a good candidate for
the source but I have lost interest in trying to trace the path of the
reflection. The only relevance all this could have is that it might place
Connally about as far right as he could be.
John Corbett
2020-12-26 15:14:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rusty Sites
Post by John Corbett
The FBI determine that Zapruder's camera ran at an average speed of 18.3
frames per second. Rounding out to four decimal places that comes to an
average of .0546 seconds per frame. However, each frame is not exposed for
that length of time. Movie film is simply a string of rapid fire still
photos which require a continuous series of starts and stops with the
frame being exposed during the stops with no exposure being made while the
film advances to expose the next frame. I think I read a long time ago
that each frame is exposed for 60% of the .0546 seconds follow by a gap
of 40% of the .0546 seconds. I can't find a reference to confirm if that
is true or whether this is just a faulty memory. Assuming it is true and
again rounding out to four decimal places, that means a frame is exposed
for .0328 seconds and advanced for .0219 seconds during which the camera
is not recording the action. Because the bullets would require only a
couple milliseconds to pass through the bodies of JFK and JBC, that means
that either of the shots which struck JFK could have hit him during the
exposure of a frame or during the gap between frames. The head shot could
have struck either during the exposure of frame 313 or in the gap between
312 and 313 with frame 313 showing us only the aftermath of the strike. It
is less definite as to when the single bullet struck and if it did strike
during the exposure of a frame, we don't know if it struck early during
the exposure, late or somewhere in the middle. This makes it a bit more
difficult to determine precisely when the shot was fired and when it
struck. We are left to analyze clues to determine the best fit for those
clues. The clues we have are the bulging of the JBC's jacket, and the
jiggle of Zapruder's camera at frame 227. The jiggle from head shot
occurred about 7 frames after the shot was fired. Since Zapruder was a
constant distance from the rifle, we could expect a similar amount of
frames between the shot being fired and the jiggle. That would indicate
the single bullet shot was likely fired during Z220 or the gap before or
after the exposure of that frame striking a couple frames later. The
bulging of JBC's jacket at Z224 happened after the bullet passed through
it. What we aren't sure of is how much of lag there was between the bullet
passing through and the jacket bulging. It seems to indicate a strike
about 223. The simultaneous reaction by JFK and JBC at 226 would have
occurred roughly 3-4 frames after the bullet passed through them. That
reaction could have begun in the 225-226 gap, late in the exposure of 226
or somewhere in between. What we are left with are three approximations
and it seems to me the best fit for all three of these approximations
would be the bullet strike either in the gap between 222-223 or early in
the 223 exposure.
Determining the precise instant of the single bullet strike is not
necessary for proving the validity of the SBT but it needs to be shown
that there is a plausible time frame for when that bullet struck. It think
the above analysis accomplishes that. In 1964 the WC gave us a range of
210-225 for when the single bullet could have struck. Given the advantage
of time and better technology, I think we can establish a much tighter
time frame for when that bullet struck.
I would be interested to see how others analyze these clues.
Here are some clues which I think are important for determining when
Connally was hit.
1) Everything Connally did after he came out from behind the sign was to
see JFK or see him better until he abruptly falls back about 285,
starts rolling his head back and forth, and doesn't try to see JFK
anymore. Perhaps you find some small event between 222 and 230 that you
think shows he is hit but after that you have 3-4 seconds where
Connally does not appear to be behaving as if he is hit and certainly
not like he has shattered ribs. How does that not strongly argue
against him being hit when you think he was? One of my guiding
principles is, once they're hit, they stay hit. Another clue is that,
in his hospital interview, Connally said he turned and saw JFK was
slumped before he was hit. It doesn't seem possible that Connally
could have seen JFK until well after 240.
What are you looking at? After the arm flip that began at 226, Connally is
clearly going into contortions for several seconds before falling back
toward Nellie. And one point he twists so violently that he is actually
facing JFK. It was only in Connally's hospital interview the day after he
came out of surgery that he said he saw JFK slumped. In all subsequent
accounts, he said he could not see JFK on his initial turn to his right.
In all likely hood he saw JFK slumped after he twisted around to the point
he was facing him. Here at 275 we see how far around Connally had twisted.

Loading Image...

Had the shot not hit Connally until 285, in order to hit him in the back,
it would have to have been fired from the front left of the limo and gone
right through Nellie. What you are proposing is simply not possible.
Post by Rusty Sites
2) Right after 285, both women move briskly towards their husbands and
become focused on them. The driver, who has been looking back since we
could first see him, turns to the front only to turn back around
shortly after that. It sure looks like something happened there.
Something happened several seconds before 285. About 3.3 seconds before
285. The two woman both seemed to look first at the other's husband before
turning toward their own. Jackie testified that Connally's cries were her
first indication that something was wrong.
Post by Rusty Sites
3) Connally's wrist and hand can't be seen at 285. The camera has moved
up and nothing below his chin is visible. Shortly before that, they
are visible and at that time, he has his arm against his chest in about
the position to line up the entry wound on his wrist with the exit
wound on his chest. Dr. Gregory treated Connally's wrist wound after
others had treated his chest wound. He had no reason to connect the
chest wound with the wrist wound or to believe that the same bullet
caused both.
It wasn't his job to determine how many bullets Connally had been hit by.
His job was to repair the damage.
Post by Rusty Sites
He identified a wound on the palm as an exit wound even
though his characterization of it, a slit that did not gape, does not
sound at all like an exit wound.
Tell us about your expertise in forensic medicine.
Post by Rusty Sites
What Gregory was sure of was the
wrist wound was one of entrance. He inferred falsely that palm wound
must be the exit wound. There is a cleft in the heal of the hand that
leads right to the palm wound area. The hat would have been protecting
most of Connally's hand but there would have been a little path to the
palm. The exiting bullet and debris would have slammed into the radius
bone and splattered. Some piece went dowm that little path and cut
Connally's hand.
It's always amusing when people with no medical expertise and having not
seen the wounds try to substitute their judgement for those who had both
of those advantages.
Post by Rusty Sites
About that "jacket bulge". I think the history is that before
about 1998 nobody had anything but low quality frames. In some of those,
it really looked like the lapel was flipping over. Then much better
frames became available and it did not look like a lapel flip anymore.
Some were well trained to see a lapel flip and continued to see it that
way.
Others shifted to jacket bulge. Nobody seemed to consider that it might
be something else entirely. The only argument I have ever heard for the
explanation being some sort of clothing movement is, "What else could it
be?" There is definitely something else it could be.
Such as?

No the jacket bulge is not proof positive of a bullet strike but given
that it preceded the simultaneous reactions of JFK and JBC to being shot,
by about a tenth of a second, it seems like a pretty good bet.
Post by Rusty Sites
Nobody seems to notice that in the "lapel flip" frames, 222 and
223, there is also a specular reflection coming from the handhold in front
of Connally that goes dark in 224 just like Connally's chest. In fact, on
close examination, the illumination of both the handhold and the chest go
through the same states in 222, 223, and 224. Dim, bright, then off. This
clip has frames 222-232.
http://joliraja.com/LapelFlip/MainAnimation/222-233.html
There are four images in the jpg below.
http://joliraja.com/LapelFlip/4HandholdSpecular.jpg
From left to right the crops are from a motorcade picture that shows the
handhold fairly well, and Zapruder frames 248, 223, and 222.
The handhold is a cylinder that is vertical at its base and then curves
around to the top part which is not truly horizontal but slopes up toward
the center of the limo. Here is a page on how sunlight is reflected off a
cylinder. If you go there, just use the > and < buttons and not "play" to
advance the slide show at the top. (If you don't know about the law of
reflection, you will probably need to find out. It's pretty simple.)
http://joliraja.com/CylinderReflect/CylinderReflect.html
To summarize the page, a cylinder is curved in two dimensions but straight
in the other. If the cylinder is in a vertical position, the straight
dimension is vertical and the surface normals are all horizontal. (I'm
not considering the top or bottom here) The horizontal component of an
incident ray contributes only to the horizontal component of the reflected
ray but the curvature of the cylinder reflects parallel rays in different
direction depending on where the ray strikes. The vertical component is
unchanged between the incident and reflected rays. A reflection of
sunlight from the cylinder can be seen over a wide range of horizontal
angles but in only one vertical direction. This means it is not really
possible to locate the source of a reflection horizontally but it can be
located precisely vertically if the orientation of the cylinder is known.
The sun was about 38 degrees above horizontal at the time of the
assassination so sunlight would have been reflected down at that same
angle from a vertical cylinder. The handhold is tilted about 3 degrees
with the slope of the road but that tilt makes light reflect a bit lower
in the horizontal direction of Zapruder. Zapruder's position is up at
about 5.5 degrees so it isn't close. The angle is off by more than 40
degrees. If the specular in 222 and 223 is coming from the vertical part
of the handhold then that light can't be coming directly from the sun.
The curved part, or corner for short, is curved in all three dimensions
so it sprays light over a wide range of angles in three dimensions. The
surface normals change a lot in a short distance so observers over a wide
range of positions see a reflection from what seems to be the same place.
Because the light is spread more widely, the reflection is not as bright
as from the vertical part. When the hat first becomes clearly visible in
frame 230, it is hiding the handhold but, shortly after that, there is no
specular on the handhold. It remains dark until 247 when a partially
formed version of the reflection seen in 248 appears. The reflection
remains virtually the same until the hand hold disappears below the frame
except when it is behind the lamp post and, after it appears for one frame
on the other side of the post, when it disappears for two frames while
Kellerman is leaning back.
That reflection is from the corner which is in Kellerman's shadow in
222-246. Either the car turned enough or Kellerman moved enough to move
Kellerman's shadow off the corner. Most of that can be seen here.
http://joliraja.com/Animations/Z263-305/263-305.html
The croppings of 222 and 223 are not very good but, in a side by side
comparison, the specular in those frames is lower, bigger, and brighter
than the one in 248 and lower in 222 than in 223. A very small change in
incidence angle would move the specular up or down the vertical part of
the handhold. The film is prone to "blooming" where bright spots are much
bigger in the image than in real life. This is caused by light moving
parallel to the film surface. A bigger bright spot is sometimes just a
brighter bright spot. Either way, the specular is quite bright in 222 and
223. My conclusion is that the specular in 222 and 223 is from the
vertical part of the handhold and thus the light could not have come
directly from the sun but must have been reflected from somewhere.
To be seen by Zapruder, the light would have to be traveling up in the
range of 7-8 degrees or 4-5 degrees in limo coordinates. If the light
came from the front and traveled more or less parallel to the side of the
car, it could pass between the window frame, which may have the weird
stripey thing on it, and the handhold with the specular, and illuminate
Connally's chest. The car turning would cause reflections to change and
move. If a curved surface was involved, it might not have to turn much.
The chrome at the base of the windshield seems like a good candidate for
the source but I have lost interest in trying to trace the path of the
reflection. The only relevance all this could have is that it might place
Connally about as far right as he could be.
The car handle is reflecting what is behind Zapruder which is the foliage
on the grassy knoll. With the limo moving forward, that reflection would
be constantly changing as the sun popped in and out through the trees.
Rusty Sites
2020-12-27 02:54:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Corbett
Post by Rusty Sites
Post by John Corbett
The FBI determine that Zapruder's camera ran at an average speed of 18.3
frames per second. Rounding out to four decimal places that comes to an
average of .0546 seconds per frame. However, each frame is not exposed for
that length of time. Movie film is simply a string of rapid fire still
photos which require a continuous series of starts and stops with the
frame being exposed during the stops with no exposure being made while the
film advances to expose the next frame. I think I read a long time ago
that each frame is exposed for 60% of the .0546 seconds follow by a gap
of 40% of the .0546 seconds. I can't find a reference to confirm if that
is true or whether this is just a faulty memory. Assuming it is true and
again rounding out to four decimal places, that means a frame is exposed
for .0328 seconds and advanced for .0219 seconds during which the camera
is not recording the action. Because the bullets would require only a
couple milliseconds to pass through the bodies of JFK and JBC, that means
that either of the shots which struck JFK could have hit him during the
exposure of a frame or during the gap between frames. The head shot could
have struck either during the exposure of frame 313 or in the gap between
312 and 313 with frame 313 showing us only the aftermath of the strike. It
is less definite as to when the single bullet struck and if it did strike
during the exposure of a frame, we don't know if it struck early during
the exposure, late or somewhere in the middle. This makes it a bit more
difficult to determine precisely when the shot was fired and when it
struck. We are left to analyze clues to determine the best fit for those
clues. The clues we have are the bulging of the JBC's jacket, and the
jiggle of Zapruder's camera at frame 227. The jiggle from head shot
occurred about 7 frames after the shot was fired. Since Zapruder was a
constant distance from the rifle, we could expect a similar amount of
frames between the shot being fired and the jiggle. That would indicate
the single bullet shot was likely fired during Z220 or the gap before or
after the exposure of that frame striking a couple frames later. The
bulging of JBC's jacket at Z224 happened after the bullet passed through
it. What we aren't sure of is how much of lag there was between the bullet
passing through and the jacket bulging. It seems to indicate a strike
about 223. The simultaneous reaction by JFK and JBC at 226 would have
occurred roughly 3-4 frames after the bullet passed through them. That
reaction could have begun in the 225-226 gap, late in the exposure of 226
or somewhere in between. What we are left with are three approximations
and it seems to me the best fit for all three of these approximations
would be the bullet strike either in the gap between 222-223 or early in
the 223 exposure.
Determining the precise instant of the single bullet strike is not
necessary for proving the validity of the SBT but it needs to be shown
that there is a plausible time frame for when that bullet struck. It think
the above analysis accomplishes that. In 1964 the WC gave us a range of
210-225 for when the single bullet could have struck. Given the advantage
of time and better technology, I think we can establish a much tighter
time frame for when that bullet struck.
I would be interested to see how others analyze these clues.
Here are some clues which I think are important for determining when
Connally was hit.
1) Everything Connally did after he came out from behind the sign was to
see JFK or see him better until he abruptly falls back about 285,
starts rolling his head back and forth, and doesn't try to see JFK
anymore. Perhaps you find some small event between 222 and 230 that you
think shows he is hit but after that you have 3-4 seconds where
Connally does not appear to be behaving as if he is hit and certainly
not like he has shattered ribs. How does that not strongly argue
against him being hit when you think he was? One of my guiding
principles is, once they're hit, they stay hit. Another clue is that,
in his hospital interview, Connally said he turned and saw JFK was
slumped before he was hit. It doesn't seem possible that Connally
could have seen JFK until well after 240.
What are you looking at?
As I at least implied in my post, I am looking at what Connally does after
these frames. His actions seem to refute your contention that he was shot
there.

After the arm flip that began at 226, Connally is
Post by John Corbett
clearly going into contortions for several seconds before falling back
toward Nellie. And one point he twists so violently that he is actually
facing JFK. It was only in Connally's hospital interview the day after he
came out of surgery that he said he saw JFK slumped. In all subsequent
accounts, he said he could not see JFK on his initial turn to his right.
In all likely hood he saw JFK slumped after he twisted around to the point
he was facing him. Here at 275 we see how far around Connally had twisted.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z275.jpg
Had the shot not hit Connally until 285, in order to hit him in the back,
it would have to have been fired from the front left of the limo and gone
right through Nellie. What you are proposing is simply not possible.
Post by Rusty Sites
2) Right after 285, both women move briskly towards their husbands and
become focused on them. The driver, who has been looking back since we
could first see him, turns to the front only to turn back around
shortly after that. It sure looks like something happened there.
Something happened several seconds before 285. About 3.3 seconds before
285. The two woman both seemed to look first at the other's husband before
turning toward their own. Jackie testified that Connally's cries were her
first indication that something was wrong.
Post by Rusty Sites
3) Connally's wrist and hand can't be seen at 285. The camera has moved
up and nothing below his chin is visible. Shortly before that, they
are visible and at that time, he has his arm against his chest in about
the position to line up the entry wound on his wrist with the exit
wound on his chest. Dr. Gregory treated Connally's wrist wound after
others had treated his chest wound. He had no reason to connect the
chest wound with the wrist wound or to believe that the same bullet
caused both.
It wasn't his job to determine how many bullets Connally had been hit by.
His job was to repair the damage.
Which seems to be an argument in my favor.
Post by John Corbett
Post by Rusty Sites
He identified a wound on the palm as an exit wound even
though his characterization of it, a slit that did not gape, does not
sound at all like an exit wound.
Tell us about your expertise in forensic medicine.
You first. As far as I know, Dr. Gregory was not a forensic
pathologist, either.
Post by John Corbett
Post by Rusty Sites
What Gregory was sure of was the
wrist wound was one of entrance. He inferred falsely that palm wound
must be the exit wound. There is a cleft in the heal of the hand that
leads right to the palm wound area. The hat would have been protecting
most of Connally's hand but there would have been a little path to the
palm. The exiting bullet and debris would have slammed into the radius
bone and splattered. Some piece went dowm that little path and cut
Connally's hand.
It's always amusing when people with no medical expertise and having not
seen the wounds try to substitute their judgement for those who had both
of those advantages.
As I pointed out. Dr. Gregory did not know anything about the
relationship between the chest wound and the wrist wound. It wasn't his
job to trace the path between the entry and the exit. If you know of
anything he did to actually establish a path between the wounds please
show us that his judgement was anything other than a surmise based on
insufficient information.
Post by John Corbett
Post by Rusty Sites
About that "jacket bulge". I think the history is that before
about 1998 nobody had anything but low quality frames. In some of those,
it really looked like the lapel was flipping over. Then much better
frames became available and it did not look like a lapel flip anymore.
Some were well trained to see a lapel flip and continued to see it that
way.
Others shifted to jacket bulge. Nobody seemed to consider that it might
be something else entirely. The only argument I have ever heard for the
explanation being some sort of clothing movement is, "What else could it
be?" There is definitely something else it could be.
Such as?
Illumination by a reflection.
Post by John Corbett
No the jacket bulge is not proof positive of a bullet strike but given
that it preceded the simultaneous reactions of JFK and JBC to being shot,
by about a tenth of a second, it seems like a pretty good bet.
The jacket bulge is nothing but an unsupported assertion.
Post by John Corbett
Post by Rusty Sites
Nobody seems to notice that in the "lapel flip" frames, 222 and
223, there is also a specular reflection coming from the handhold in front
of Connally that goes dark in 224 just like Connally's chest. In fact, on
close examination, the illumination of both the handhold and the chest go
through the same states in 222, 223, and 224. Dim, bright, then off. This
clip has frames 222-232.
http://joliraja.com/LapelFlip/MainAnimation/222-233.html
There are four images in the jpg below.
http://joliraja.com/LapelFlip/4HandholdSpecular.jpg
From left to right the crops are from a motorcade picture that shows the
handhold fairly well, and Zapruder frames 248, 223, and 222.
The handhold is a cylinder that is vertical at its base and then curves
around to the top part which is not truly horizontal but slopes up toward
the center of the limo. Here is a page on how sunlight is reflected off a
cylinder. If you go there, just use the > and < buttons and not "play" to
advance the slide show at the top. (If you don't know about the law of
reflection, you will probably need to find out. It's pretty simple.)
http://joliraja.com/CylinderReflect/CylinderReflect.html
To summarize the page, a cylinder is curved in two dimensions but straight
in the other. If the cylinder is in a vertical position, the straight
dimension is vertical and the surface normals are all horizontal. (I'm
not considering the top or bottom here) The horizontal component of an
incident ray contributes only to the horizontal component of the reflected
ray but the curvature of the cylinder reflects parallel rays in different
direction depending on where the ray strikes. The vertical component is
unchanged between the incident and reflected rays. A reflection of
sunlight from the cylinder can be seen over a wide range of horizontal
angles but in only one vertical direction. This means it is not really
possible to locate the source of a reflection horizontally but it can be
located precisely vertically if the orientation of the cylinder is known.
The sun was about 38 degrees above horizontal at the time of the
assassination so sunlight would have been reflected down at that same
angle from a vertical cylinder. The handhold is tilted about 3 degrees
with the slope of the road but that tilt makes light reflect a bit lower
in the horizontal direction of Zapruder. Zapruder's position is up at
about 5.5 degrees so it isn't close. The angle is off by more than 40
degrees. If the specular in 222 and 223 is coming from the vertical part
of the handhold then that light can't be coming directly from the sun.
The curved part, or corner for short, is curved in all three dimensions
so it sprays light over a wide range of angles in three dimensions. The
surface normals change a lot in a short distance so observers over a wide
range of positions see a reflection from what seems to be the same place.
Because the light is spread more widely, the reflection is not as bright
as from the vertical part. When the hat first becomes clearly visible in
frame 230, it is hiding the handhold but, shortly after that, there is no
specular on the handhold. It remains dark until 247 when a partially
formed version of the reflection seen in 248 appears. The reflection
remains virtually the same until the hand hold disappears below the frame
except when it is behind the lamp post and, after it appears for one frame
on the other side of the post, when it disappears for two frames while
Kellerman is leaning back.
That reflection is from the corner which is in Kellerman's shadow in
222-246. Either the car turned enough or Kellerman moved enough to move
Kellerman's shadow off the corner. Most of that can be seen here.
http://joliraja.com/Animations/Z263-305/263-305.html
The croppings of 222 and 223 are not very good but, in a side by side
comparison, the specular in those frames is lower, bigger, and brighter
than the one in 248 and lower in 222 than in 223. A very small change in
incidence angle would move the specular up or down the vertical part of
the handhold. The film is prone to "blooming" where bright spots are much
bigger in the image than in real life. This is caused by light moving
parallel to the film surface. A bigger bright spot is sometimes just a
brighter bright spot. Either way, the specular is quite bright in 222 and
223. My conclusion is that the specular in 222 and 223 is from the
vertical part of the handhold and thus the light could not have come
directly from the sun but must have been reflected from somewhere.
To be seen by Zapruder, the light would have to be traveling up in the
range of 7-8 degrees or 4-5 degrees in limo coordinates. If the light
came from the front and traveled more or less parallel to the side of the
car, it could pass between the window frame, which may have the weird
stripey thing on it, and the handhold with the specular, and illuminate
Connally's chest. The car turning would cause reflections to change and
move. If a curved surface was involved, it might not have to turn much.
The chrome at the base of the windshield seems like a good candidate for
the source but I have lost interest in trying to trace the path of the
reflection. The only relevance all this could have is that it might place
Connally about as far right as he could be.
The car handle is reflecting what is behind Zapruder which is the foliage
on the grassy knoll. With the limo moving forward, that reflection would
be constantly changing as the sun popped in and out through the trees.
I don't follow you at all, but the sun was on the other side of the limo
from Zapruder.
Rusty Sites
2020-12-27 02:54:25 UTC
Permalink
On 12/26/20 7:14 AM, John Corbett wrote:

I left something out.
Post by John Corbett
What are you looking at? After the arm flip that began at 226, Connally is
clearly going into contortions for several seconds before falling back
toward Nellie. And one point he twists so violently that he is actually
facing JFK. It was only in Connally's hospital interview the day after he
came out of surgery that he said he saw JFK slumped. In all subsequent
accounts, he said he could not see JFK on his initial turn to his right.
In all likely hood he saw JFK slumped after he twisted around to the point
Post by John Corbett
he was facing him. Here at 275 we see how far around Connally had twisted.
So that would have him hit after 275 which is what I think. He said he
saw JFK was slumped and then he was hit. Did he think he remembered that
shortly after the fact but later remember that he didn't?
Post by John Corbett
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z275.jpg
Had the shot not hit Connally until 285, in order to hit him in the back,
it would have to have been fired from the front left of the limo and gone
right through Nellie. What you are proposing is simply not possible.
I am not saying he was hit at 275 but you are wrong about the bullet
having to hit Nellie. Right after 275 he turned back towards the front I
think because he realized he could see JFK better if he turned and leaned
the other way. He was turned arund less by 285. I think this frame
illustrates very well my point about Connally not acting like he was hit.
If he had already been hit this frame is remarkable for two reasons.
That he is twisted around like that with shattered ribs and that after
sustaining a very serious and painful injury he is totally focused on
seeing JFK. Especially if he never even saw JFK like he told the Warren
Commission. He did preface that statement with, "This might be hard to
believe but..." and, yes, that is very hard to believe. If Connally had
been hit and he never saw that JFK was hit, I believe the initial theory
that they were shooting at JFK would have gone right out the window.
Instead of saying, "My God they are going to kill us all" he would have
said, "My God they are shooting at me!"
John Corbett
2020-12-28 01:50:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rusty Sites
I left something out.
Post by John Corbett
What are you looking at? After the arm flip that began at 226, Connally is
clearly going into contortions for several seconds before falling back
toward Nellie. And one point he twists so violently that he is actually
facing JFK. It was only in Connally's hospital interview the day after he
came out of surgery that he said he saw JFK slumped. In all subsequent
accounts, he said he could not see JFK on his initial turn to his right.
In all likely hood he saw JFK slumped after he twisted around to the point
Post by John Corbett
he was facing him. Here at 275 we see how far around Connally had twisted.
So that would have him hit after 275 which is what I think. He said he
saw JFK was slumped and then he was hit. Did he think he remembered that
shortly after the fact but later remember that he didn't?
I don't know why he said he saw JFK slumped after the first shot but he
also said in that same interview he turned to his left when we clearly see
he turned right both before and after he was hit. He never turned right.
Whether he was still groggy from the anesthetic or there is some other
reason his memory was faulty when he gave that interview but the things he
said he did and saw he couldn't have.

I don't know how you could look at Connally's movements even in that short
clip you posted and not see he was clearly hit just as he was emerging
from behind the sign. His arm flips upward and his hat moves up to the
level of his chin. After that initial reaction he turns sharply to his
right and dips and continues to twist violently in his seat in reaction to
the devastating wound he just suffered.
Post by Rusty Sites
Post by John Corbett
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z275.jpg
Had the shot not hit Connally until 285, in order to hit him in the back,
it would have to have been fired from the front left of the limo and gone
right through Nellie. What you are proposing is simply not possible.
I am not saying he was hit at 275 but you are wrong about the bullet
having to hit Nellie. Right after 275 he turned back towards the front I
think because he realized he could see JFK better if he turned and leaned
the other way. He was turned arund less by 285.
So you think in a half second he would have rotated enough to receive a
shot in the back fired from behind the limo. That's not the least bit
plausible. Look at frame 285 again. He is still facing to the rear. Even
if you could find a bullet path to Connally's back that would not hit
Nellie, the shot still would have to have come from the front left of the
limo. Preposterous.

Loading Image...
Post by Rusty Sites
I think this frame
illustrates very well my point about Connally not acting like he was hit.
If he had already been hit this frame is remarkable for two reasons.
That he is twisted around like that with shattered ribs and that after
sustaining a very serious and painful injury he is totally focused on
seeing JFK.
It is because he was hit that he is twisting so violently. It is a totally
reflexive action to a severe gunshot. His head is rotated 180 degrees and
his torso about 135.
Post by Rusty Sites
Especially if he never even saw JFK like he told the Warren
Commission. He did preface that statement with, "This might be hard to
believe but..." and, yes, that is very hard to believe. If Connally had
been hit and he never saw that JFK was hit, I believe the initial theory
that they were shooting at JFK would have gone right out the window.
Instead of saying, "My God they are going to kill us all" he would have
said, "My God they are shooting at me!"
Pure assumption. That does not logically follow. Connally said he
instantly recognized a rifle shot and his first thought was that it was an
assassination attempt. Why would he think he was the target and not JFK?
Anthony Marsh
2020-12-30 19:36:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rusty Sites
I left something out.
Post by John Corbett
What are you looking at? After the arm flip that began at 226, Connally is
clearly going into contortions for several seconds before falling back
toward Nellie. And one point he twists so violently that he is actually
facing JFK. It was only in Connally's hospital interview the day after he
came out of surgery that he said he saw JFK slumped. In all subsequent
accounts, he said he could not see JFK on his initial turn to his right.
In all likely hood he saw JFK slumped after he twisted around to the point
Post by John Corbett
he was facing him. Here at 275 we see how far around Connally had twisted.
So that would have him hit after 275 which is what I think.?? He said he
saw JFK was slumped and then he was hit.?? Did he think he remembered
that shortly after the fact but later remember that he didn't?
Post by John Corbett
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z275.jpg
Had the shot not hit Connally until 285, in order to hit him in the back,
it would have to have been fired from the front left of the limo and gone
right through Nellie. What you are proposing is simply not possible.
I am not saying he was hit at 275 but you are wrong about the bullet
having to hit Nellie.?? Right after 275 he turned back towards the front
Nellie was not hit by a bullet. She was hit by debris.
Post by Rusty Sites
I think because he realized he could see JFK better if he turned and
leaned the other way.?? He was turned arund less by 285.?? I think this
frame illustrates very well my point about Connally not acting like he
was hit. If he had already been hit this frame is remarkable for two
reasons. That he is twisted around like that with shattered ribs and
that after sustaining a very serious and painful injury he is totally
focused on seeing JFK.?? Especially if he never even saw JFK like he told
the Warren Commission.?? He did preface that statement with, "This might
be hard to believe but..." and, yes, that is very hard to believe.?? If
Connally had been hit and he never saw that JFK was hit, I believe the
initial theory that they were shooting at JFK would have gone right out
the window. Instead of saying, "My God they are going to kill us all" he
would have said, "My God they are shooting at me!"
Anthony Marsh
2020-12-30 19:36:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rusty Sites
I left something out.
Post by John Corbett
What are you looking at? After the arm flip that began at 226, Connally is
clearly going into contortions for several seconds before falling back
toward Nellie. And one point he twists so violently that he is actually
facing JFK. It was only in Connally's hospital interview the day after he
came out of surgery that he said he saw JFK slumped. In all subsequent
accounts, he said he could not see JFK on his initial turn to his right.
In all likely hood he saw JFK slumped after he twisted around to the point
Post by John Corbett
he was facing him. Here at 275 we see how far around Connally had twisted.
So that would have him hit after 275 which is what I think.?? He said he
saw JFK was slumped and then he was hit.?? Did he think he remembered
that shortly after the fact but later remember that he didn't?
Post by John Corbett
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z275.jpg
Had the shot not hit Connally until 285, in order to hit him in the back,
it would have to have been fired from the front left of the limo and gone
right through Nellie. What you are proposing is simply not possible.
I am not saying he was hit at 275 but you are wrong about the bullet
having to hit Nellie.?? Right after 275 he turned back towards the front
I think because he realized he could see JFK better if he turned and
leaned the other way.?? He was turned arund less by 285.?? I think this
frame illustrates very well my point about Connally not acting like he
was hit. If he had already been hit this frame is remarkable for two
reasons. That he is twisted around like that with shattered ribs and
that after sustaining a very serious and painful injury he is totally
focused on seeing JFK.?? Especially if he never even saw JFK like he told
the Warren Commission.?? He did preface that statement with, "This might
be hard to believe but..." and, yes, that is very hard to believe.?? If
Connally had been hit and he never saw that JFK was hit, I believe the
initial theory that they were shooting at JFK would have gone right out
the window. Instead of saying, "My God they are going to kill us all" he
would have said, "My God they are shooting at me!"
Connally was not surprised that someone would try to assassinate JFK. He
had warned JFK about the danger. He was surprised that they were
shooting at anyone else too.
Steve Barber
2020-12-26 16:43:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rusty Sites
Post by John Corbett
The FBI determine that Zapruder's camera ran at an average speed of 18.3
frames per second. Rounding out to four decimal places that comes to an
average of .0546 seconds per frame. However, each frame is not exposed for
that length of time. Movie film is simply a string of rapid fire still
photos which require a continuous series of starts and stops with the
frame being exposed during the stops with no exposure being made while the
film advances to expose the next frame. I think I read a long time ago
that each frame is exposed for 60% of the .0546 seconds follow by a gap
of 40% of the .0546 seconds. I can't find a reference to confirm if that
is true or whether this is just a faulty memory. Assuming it is true and
again rounding out to four decimal places, that means a frame is exposed
for .0328 seconds and advanced for .0219 seconds during which the camera
is not recording the action. Because the bullets would require only a
couple milliseconds to pass through the bodies of JFK and JBC, that means
that either of the shots which struck JFK could have hit him during the
exposure of a frame or during the gap between frames. The head shot could
have struck either during the exposure of frame 313 or in the gap between
312 and 313 with frame 313 showing us only the aftermath of the strike. It
is less definite as to when the single bullet struck and if it did strike
during the exposure of a frame, we don't know if it struck early during
the exposure, late or somewhere in the middle. This makes it a bit more
difficult to determine precisely when the shot was fired and when it
struck. We are left to analyze clues to determine the best fit for those
clues. The clues we have are the bulging of the JBC's jacket, and the
jiggle of Zapruder's camera at frame 227. The jiggle from head shot
occurred about 7 frames after the shot was fired. Since Zapruder was a
constant distance from the rifle, we could expect a similar amount of
frames between the shot being fired and the jiggle. That would indicate
the single bullet shot was likely fired during Z220 or the gap before or
after the exposure of that frame striking a couple frames later. The
bulging of JBC's jacket at Z224 happened after the bullet passed through
it. What we aren't sure of is how much of lag there was between the bullet
passing through and the jacket bulging. It seems to indicate a strike
about 223. The simultaneous reaction by JFK and JBC at 226 would have
occurred roughly 3-4 frames after the bullet passed through them. That
reaction could have begun in the 225-226 gap, late in the exposure of 226
or somewhere in between. What we are left with are three approximations
and it seems to me the best fit for all three of these approximations
would be the bullet strike either in the gap between 222-223 or early in
the 223 exposure.
Determining the precise instant of the single bullet strike is not
necessary for proving the validity of the SBT but it needs to be shown
that there is a plausible time frame for when that bullet struck. It think
the above analysis accomplishes that. In 1964 the WC gave us a range of
210-225 for when the single bullet could have struck. Given the advantage
of time and better technology, I think we can establish a much tighter
time frame for when that bullet struck.
I would be interested to see how others analyze these clues.
Here are some clues which I think are important for determining when
Connally was hit.
1) Everything Connally did after he came out from behind the sign was to
see JFK or see him better until he abruptly falls back about 285,
starts rolling his head back and forth, and doesn't try to see JFK
anymore. Perhaps you find some small event between 222 and 230 that you
think shows he is hit but after that you have 3-4 seconds where
Connally does not appear to be behaving as if he is hit and certainly
not like he has shattered ribs. How does that not strongly argue
against him being hit when you think he was? One of my guiding
principles is, once they're hit, they stay hit. Another clue is that,
in his hospital interview, Connally said he turned and saw JFK was
slumped before he was hit. It doesn't seem possible that Connally
could have seen JFK until well after 240.
2) Right after 285, both women move briskly towards their husbands and
become focused on them. The driver, who has been looking back since we
could first see him, turns to the front only to turn back around
shortly after that. It sure looks like something happened there.
3) Connally's wrist and hand can't be seen at 285. The camera has moved
up and nothing below his chin is visible. Shortly before that, they
are visible and at that time, he has his arm against his chest in about
the position to line up the entry wound on his wrist with the exit
wound on his chest. Dr. Gregory treated Connally's wrist wound after
others had treated his chest wound. He had no reason to connect the
chest wound with the wrist wound or to believe that the same bullet
caused both. He identified a wound on the palm as an exit wound even
though his characterization of it, a slit that did not gape, does not
sound at all like an exit wound. What Gregory was sure of was the
wrist wound was one of entrance. He inferred falsely that palm wound
must be the exit wound. There is a cleft in the heal of the hand that
leads right to the palm wound area. The hat would have been protecting
most of Connally's hand but there would have been a little path to the
palm. The exiting bullet and debris would have slammed into the radius
bone and splattered. Some piece went dowm that little path and cut
Connally's hand.
About that "jacket bulge". I think the history is that before
about 1998 nobody had anything but low quality frames. In some of those,
it really looked like the lapel was flipping over. Then much better
frames became available and it did not look like a lapel flip anymore.
Some were well trained to see a lapel flip and continued to see it that
way.
Others shifted to jacket bulge. Nobody seemed to consider that it might
be something else entirely. The only argument I have ever heard for the
explanation being some sort of clothing movement is, "What else could it
be?" There is definitely something else it could be.
Nobody seems to notice that in the "lapel flip" frames, 222 and
223, there is also a specular reflection coming from the handhold in front
of Connally that goes dark in 224 just like Connally's chest. In fact, on
close examination, the illumination of both the handhold and the chest go
through the same states in 222, 223, and 224. Dim, bright, then off. This
clip has frames 222-232.
http://joliraja.com/LapelFlip/MainAnimation/222-233.html
There are four images in the jpg below.
http://joliraja.com/LapelFlip/4HandholdSpecular.jpg
From left to right the crops are from a motorcade picture that shows the
handhold fairly well, and Zapruder frames 248, 223, and 222.
The handhold is a cylinder that is vertical at its base and then curves
around to the top part which is not truly horizontal but slopes up toward
the center of the limo. Here is a page on how sunlight is reflected off a
cylinder. If you go there, just use the > and < buttons and not "play" to
advance the slide show at the top. (If you don't know about the law of
reflection, you will probably need to find out. It's pretty simple.)
http://joliraja.com/CylinderReflect/CylinderReflect.html
To summarize the page, a cylinder is curved in two dimensions but straight
in the other. If the cylinder is in a vertical position, the straight
dimension is vertical and the surface normals are all horizontal. (I'm
not considering the top or bottom here) The horizontal component of an
incident ray contributes only to the horizontal component of the reflected
ray but the curvature of the cylinder reflects parallel rays in different
direction depending on where the ray strikes. The vertical component is
unchanged between the incident and reflected rays. A reflection of
sunlight from the cylinder can be seen over a wide range of horizontal
angles but in only one vertical direction. This means it is not really
possible to locate the source of a reflection horizontally but it can be
located precisely vertically if the orientation of the cylinder is known.
The sun was about 38 degrees above horizontal at the time of the
assassination so sunlight would have been reflected down at that same
angle from a vertical cylinder. The handhold is tilted about 3 degrees
with the slope of the road but that tilt makes light reflect a bit lower
in the horizontal direction of Zapruder. Zapruder's position is up at
about 5.5 degrees so it isn't close. The angle is off by more than 40
degrees. If the specular in 222 and 223 is coming from the vertical part
of the handhold then that light can't be coming directly from the sun.
The curved part, or corner for short, is curved in all three dimensions
so it sprays light over a wide range of angles in three dimensions. The
surface normals change a lot in a short distance so observers over a wide
range of positions see a reflection from what seems to be the same place.
Because the light is spread more widely, the reflection is not as bright
as from the vertical part. When the hat first becomes clearly visible in
frame 230, it is hiding the handhold but, shortly after that, there is no
specular on the handhold. It remains dark until 247 when a partially
formed version of the reflection seen in 248 appears. The reflection
remains virtually the same until the hand hold disappears below the frame
except when it is behind the lamp post and, after it appears for one frame
on the other side of the post, when it disappears for two frames while
Kellerman is leaning back.
That reflection is from the corner which is in Kellerman's shadow in
222-246. Either the car turned enough or Kellerman moved enough to move
Kellerman's shadow off the corner. Most of that can be seen here.
http://joliraja.com/Animations/Z263-305/263-305.html
The croppings of 222 and 223 are not very good but, in a side by side
comparison, the specular in those frames is lower, bigger, and brighter
than the one in 248 and lower in 222 than in 223. A very small change in
incidence angle would move the specular up or down the vertical part of
the handhold. The film is prone to "blooming" where bright spots are much
bigger in the image than in real life. This is caused by light moving
parallel to the film surface. A bigger bright spot is sometimes just a
brighter bright spot. Either way, the specular is quite bright in 222 and
223. My conclusion is that the specular in 222 and 223 is from the
vertical part of the handhold and thus the light could not have come
directly from the sun but must have been reflected from somewhere.
To be seen by Zapruder, the light would have to be traveling up in the
range of 7-8 degrees or 4-5 degrees in limo coordinates. If the light
came from the front and traveled more or less parallel to the side of the
car, it could pass between the window frame, which may have the weird
stripey thing on it, and the handhold with the specular, and illuminate
Connally's chest. The car turning would cause reflections to change and
move. If a curved surface was involved, it might not have to turn much.
The chrome at the base of the windshield seems like a good candidate for
the source but I have lost interest in trying to trace the path of the
reflection. The only relevance all this could have is that it might place
Connally about as far right as he could be.
" Others shifted to jacket bulge. Nobody seemed to consider that it might
be something else entirely. The only argument I have ever heard for the
explanation being some sort of clothing movement is, "What else could it
be?" There is definitely something else it could be.

Nobody seems to notice that in the "lapel flip" frames, 222 and 223, there
is also a specular reflection coming from the handhold in front of
Connally that goes dark in 224 just like Connally's chest. In fact, on
close examination, the illumination of both the handhold and the chest go
through the same states in 222, 223, and 224. Dim, bright, then off. This
clip has frames 222-232. "

http://joliraja.com/LapelFlip/MainAnimation/222-233.html

The white spot that you said disappears isnt the reflection off the hand
hold, it's John Connally's hat.
Rusty Sites
2020-12-27 02:54:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Barber
Post by Rusty Sites
Post by John Corbett
The FBI determine that Zapruder's camera ran at an average speed of 18.3
frames per second. Rounding out to four decimal places that comes to an
average of .0546 seconds per frame. However, each frame is not exposed for
that length of time. Movie film is simply a string of rapid fire still
photos which require a continuous series of starts and stops with the
frame being exposed during the stops with no exposure being made while the
film advances to expose the next frame. I think I read a long time ago
that each frame is exposed for 60% of the .0546 seconds follow by a gap
of 40% of the .0546 seconds. I can't find a reference to confirm if that
is true or whether this is just a faulty memory. Assuming it is true and
again rounding out to four decimal places, that means a frame is exposed
for .0328 seconds and advanced for .0219 seconds during which the camera
is not recording the action. Because the bullets would require only a
couple milliseconds to pass through the bodies of JFK and JBC, that means
that either of the shots which struck JFK could have hit him during the
exposure of a frame or during the gap between frames. The head shot could
have struck either during the exposure of frame 313 or in the gap between
312 and 313 with frame 313 showing us only the aftermath of the strike. It
is less definite as to when the single bullet struck and if it did strike
during the exposure of a frame, we don't know if it struck early during
the exposure, late or somewhere in the middle. This makes it a bit more
difficult to determine precisely when the shot was fired and when it
struck. We are left to analyze clues to determine the best fit for those
clues. The clues we have are the bulging of the JBC's jacket, and the
jiggle of Zapruder's camera at frame 227. The jiggle from head shot
occurred about 7 frames after the shot was fired. Since Zapruder was a
constant distance from the rifle, we could expect a similar amount of
frames between the shot being fired and the jiggle. That would indicate
the single bullet shot was likely fired during Z220 or the gap before or
after the exposure of that frame striking a couple frames later. The
bulging of JBC's jacket at Z224 happened after the bullet passed through
it. What we aren't sure of is how much of lag there was between the bullet
passing through and the jacket bulging. It seems to indicate a strike
about 223. The simultaneous reaction by JFK and JBC at 226 would have
occurred roughly 3-4 frames after the bullet passed through them. That
reaction could have begun in the 225-226 gap, late in the exposure of 226
or somewhere in between. What we are left with are three approximations
and it seems to me the best fit for all three of these approximations
would be the bullet strike either in the gap between 222-223 or early in
the 223 exposure.
Determining the precise instant of the single bullet strike is not
necessary for proving the validity of the SBT but it needs to be shown
that there is a plausible time frame for when that bullet struck. It think
the above analysis accomplishes that. In 1964 the WC gave us a range of
210-225 for when the single bullet could have struck. Given the advantage
of time and better technology, I think we can establish a much tighter
time frame for when that bullet struck.
I would be interested to see how others analyze these clues.
Here are some clues which I think are important for determining when
Connally was hit.
1) Everything Connally did after he came out from behind the sign was to
see JFK or see him better until he abruptly falls back about 285,
starts rolling his head back and forth, and doesn't try to see JFK
anymore. Perhaps you find some small event between 222 and 230 that you
think shows he is hit but after that you have 3-4 seconds where
Connally does not appear to be behaving as if he is hit and certainly
not like he has shattered ribs. How does that not strongly argue
against him being hit when you think he was? One of my guiding
principles is, once they're hit, they stay hit. Another clue is that,
in his hospital interview, Connally said he turned and saw JFK was
slumped before he was hit. It doesn't seem possible that Connally
could have seen JFK until well after 240.
2) Right after 285, both women move briskly towards their husbands and
become focused on them. The driver, who has been looking back since we
could first see him, turns to the front only to turn back around
shortly after that. It sure looks like something happened there.
3) Connally's wrist and hand can't be seen at 285. The camera has moved
up and nothing below his chin is visible. Shortly before that, they
are visible and at that time, he has his arm against his chest in about
the position to line up the entry wound on his wrist with the exit
wound on his chest. Dr. Gregory treated Connally's wrist wound after
others had treated his chest wound. He had no reason to connect the
chest wound with the wrist wound or to believe that the same bullet
caused both. He identified a wound on the palm as an exit wound even
though his characterization of it, a slit that did not gape, does not
sound at all like an exit wound. What Gregory was sure of was the
wrist wound was one of entrance. He inferred falsely that palm wound
must be the exit wound. There is a cleft in the heal of the hand that
leads right to the palm wound area. The hat would have been protecting
most of Connally's hand but there would have been a little path to the
palm. The exiting bullet and debris would have slammed into the radius
bone and splattered. Some piece went dowm that little path and cut
Connally's hand.
About that "jacket bulge". I think the history is that before
about 1998 nobody had anything but low quality frames. In some of those,
it really looked like the lapel was flipping over. Then much better
frames became available and it did not look like a lapel flip anymore.
Some were well trained to see a lapel flip and continued to see it that
way.
Others shifted to jacket bulge. Nobody seemed to consider that it might
be something else entirely. The only argument I have ever heard for the
explanation being some sort of clothing movement is, "What else could it
be?" There is definitely something else it could be.
Nobody seems to notice that in the "lapel flip" frames, 222 and
223, there is also a specular reflection coming from the handhold in front
of Connally that goes dark in 224 just like Connally's chest. In fact, on
close examination, the illumination of both the handhold and the chest go
through the same states in 222, 223, and 224. Dim, bright, then off. This
clip has frames 222-232.
http://joliraja.com/LapelFlip/MainAnimation/222-233.html
There are four images in the jpg below.
http://joliraja.com/LapelFlip/4HandholdSpecular.jpg
From left to right the crops are from a motorcade picture that shows the
handhold fairly well, and Zapruder frames 248, 223, and 222.
The handhold is a cylinder that is vertical at its base and then curves
around to the top part which is not truly horizontal but slopes up toward
the center of the limo. Here is a page on how sunlight is reflected off a
cylinder. If you go there, just use the > and < buttons and not "play" to
advance the slide show at the top. (If you don't know about the law of
reflection, you will probably need to find out. It's pretty simple.)
http://joliraja.com/CylinderReflect/CylinderReflect.html
To summarize the page, a cylinder is curved in two dimensions but straight
in the other. If the cylinder is in a vertical position, the straight
dimension is vertical and the surface normals are all horizontal. (I'm
not considering the top or bottom here) The horizontal component of an
incident ray contributes only to the horizontal component of the reflected
ray but the curvature of the cylinder reflects parallel rays in different
direction depending on where the ray strikes. The vertical component is
unchanged between the incident and reflected rays. A reflection of
sunlight from the cylinder can be seen over a wide range of horizontal
angles but in only one vertical direction. This means it is not really
possible to locate the source of a reflection horizontally but it can be
located precisely vertically if the orientation of the cylinder is known.
The sun was about 38 degrees above horizontal at the time of the
assassination so sunlight would have been reflected down at that same
angle from a vertical cylinder. The handhold is tilted about 3 degrees
with the slope of the road but that tilt makes light reflect a bit lower
in the horizontal direction of Zapruder. Zapruder's position is up at
about 5.5 degrees so it isn't close. The angle is off by more than 40
degrees. If the specular in 222 and 223 is coming from the vertical part
of the handhold then that light can't be coming directly from the sun.
The curved part, or corner for short, is curved in all three dimensions
so it sprays light over a wide range of angles in three dimensions. The
surface normals change a lot in a short distance so observers over a wide
range of positions see a reflection from what seems to be the same place.
Because the light is spread more widely, the reflection is not as bright
as from the vertical part. When the hat first becomes clearly visible in
frame 230, it is hiding the handhold but, shortly after that, there is no
specular on the handhold. It remains dark until 247 when a partially
formed version of the reflection seen in 248 appears. The reflection
remains virtually the same until the hand hold disappears below the frame
except when it is behind the lamp post and, after it appears for one frame
on the other side of the post, when it disappears for two frames while
Kellerman is leaning back.
That reflection is from the corner which is in Kellerman's shadow in
222-246. Either the car turned enough or Kellerman moved enough to move
Kellerman's shadow off the corner. Most of that can be seen here.
http://joliraja.com/Animations/Z263-305/263-305.html
The croppings of 222 and 223 are not very good but, in a side by side
comparison, the specular in those frames is lower, bigger, and brighter
than the one in 248 and lower in 222 than in 223. A very small change in
incidence angle would move the specular up or down the vertical part of
the handhold. The film is prone to "blooming" where bright spots are much
bigger in the image than in real life. This is caused by light moving
parallel to the film surface. A bigger bright spot is sometimes just a
brighter bright spot. Either way, the specular is quite bright in 222 and
223. My conclusion is that the specular in 222 and 223 is from the
vertical part of the handhold and thus the light could not have come
directly from the sun but must have been reflected from somewhere.
To be seen by Zapruder, the light would have to be traveling up in the
range of 7-8 degrees or 4-5 degrees in limo coordinates. If the light
came from the front and traveled more or less parallel to the side of the
car, it could pass between the window frame, which may have the weird
stripey thing on it, and the handhold with the specular, and illuminate
Connally's chest. The car turning would cause reflections to change and
move. If a curved surface was involved, it might not have to turn much.
The chrome at the base of the windshield seems like a good candidate for
the source but I have lost interest in trying to trace the path of the
reflection. The only relevance all this could have is that it might place
Connally about as far right as he could be.
" Others shifted to jacket bulge. Nobody seemed to consider that it might
be something else entirely. The only argument I have ever heard for the
explanation being some sort of clothing movement is, "What else could it
be?" There is definitely something else it could be.
Nobody seems to notice that in the "lapel flip" frames, 222 and 223, there
is also a specular reflection coming from the handhold in front of
Connally that goes dark in 224 just like Connally's chest. In fact, on
close examination, the illumination of both the handhold and the chest go
through the same states in 222, 223, and 224. Dim, bright, then off. This
clip has frames 222-232. "
http://joliraja.com/LapelFlip/MainAnimation/222-233.html
The white spot that you said disappears isnt the reflection off the hand
hold, it's John Connally's hat.
If so, then the hat is doing a pretty good job of masquerading as a
handhold specular and everything going dark in the same frame is just a
coincidence. We can see the hat clearly in 230. It is between us and the
handhold and there is no bright spot.
Anthony Marsh
2020-12-30 19:36:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Barber
Post by Rusty Sites
Post by John Corbett
The FBI determine that Zapruder's camera ran at an average speed of 18.3
frames per second. Rounding out to four decimal places that comes to an
average of .0546 seconds per frame. However, each frame is not exposed for
that length of time. Movie film is simply a string of rapid fire still
photos which require a continuous series of starts and stops with the
frame being exposed during the stops with no exposure being made while the
film advances to expose the next frame. I think I read a long time ago
that each frame is exposed for 60% of the .0546 seconds follow by a gap
of 40% of the .0546 seconds. I can't find a reference to confirm if that
is true or whether this is just a faulty memory. Assuming it is true and
again rounding out to four decimal places, that means a frame is exposed
for .0328 seconds and advanced for .0219 seconds during which the camera
is not recording the action. Because the bullets would require only a
couple milliseconds to pass through the bodies of JFK and JBC, that means
that either of the shots which struck JFK could have hit him during the
exposure of a frame or during the gap between frames. The head shot could
have struck either during the exposure of frame 313 or in the gap between
312 and 313 with frame 313 showing us only the aftermath of the strike. It
is less definite as to when the single bullet struck and if it did strike
during the exposure of a frame, we don't know if it struck early during
the exposure, late or somewhere in the middle. This makes it a bit more
difficult to determine precisely when the shot was fired and when it
struck. We are left to analyze clues to determine the best fit for those
clues. The clues we have are the bulging of the JBC's jacket, and the
jiggle of Zapruder's camera at frame 227. The jiggle from head shot
occurred about 7 frames after the shot was fired. Since Zapruder was a
constant distance from the rifle, we could expect a similar amount of
frames between the shot being fired and the jiggle. That would indicate
the single bullet shot was likely fired during Z220 or the gap before or
after the exposure of that frame striking a couple frames later. The
bulging of JBC's jacket at Z224 happened after the bullet passed through
it. What we aren't sure of is how much of lag there was between the bullet
passing through and the jacket bulging. It seems to indicate a strike
about 223. The simultaneous reaction by JFK and JBC at 226 would have
occurred roughly 3-4 frames after the bullet passed through them. That
reaction could have begun in the 225-226 gap, late in the exposure of 226
or somewhere in between. What we are left with are three approximations
and it seems to me the best fit for all three of these approximations
would be the bullet strike either in the gap between 222-223 or early in
the 223 exposure.
Determining the precise instant of the single bullet strike is not
necessary for proving the validity of the SBT but it needs to be shown
that there is a plausible time frame for when that bullet struck. It think
the above analysis accomplishes that. In 1964 the WC gave us a range of
210-225 for when the single bullet could have struck. Given the advantage
of time and better technology, I think we can establish a much tighter
time frame for when that bullet struck.
I would be interested to see how others analyze these clues.
Here are some clues which I think are important for determining when
Connally was hit.
1) Everything Connally did after he came out from behind the sign was to
see JFK or see him better until he abruptly falls back about 285,
starts rolling his head back and forth, and doesn't try to see JFK
anymore. Perhaps you find some small event between 222 and 230 that you
think shows he is hit but after that you have 3-4 seconds where
Connally does not appear to be behaving as if he is hit and certainly
not like he has shattered ribs. How does that not strongly argue
against him being hit when you think he was? One of my guiding
principles is, once they're hit, they stay hit. Another clue is that,
in his hospital interview, Connally said he turned and saw JFK was
slumped before he was hit. It doesn't seem possible that Connally
could have seen JFK until well after 240.
2) Right after 285, both women move briskly towards their husbands and
become focused on them. The driver, who has been looking back since we
could first see him, turns to the front only to turn back around
shortly after that. It sure looks like something happened there.
3) Connally's wrist and hand can't be seen at 285. The camera has moved
up and nothing below his chin is visible. Shortly before that, they
are visible and at that time, he has his arm against his chest in about
the position to line up the entry wound on his wrist with the exit
wound on his chest. Dr. Gregory treated Connally's wrist wound after
others had treated his chest wound. He had no reason to connect the
chest wound with the wrist wound or to believe that the same bullet
caused both. He identified a wound on the palm as an exit wound even
though his characterization of it, a slit that did not gape, does not
sound at all like an exit wound. What Gregory was sure of was the
wrist wound was one of entrance. He inferred falsely that palm wound
must be the exit wound. There is a cleft in the heal of the hand that
leads right to the palm wound area. The hat would have been protecting
most of Connally's hand but there would have been a little path to the
palm. The exiting bullet and debris would have slammed into the radius
bone and splattered. Some piece went dowm that little path and cut
Connally's hand.
About that "jacket bulge". I think the history is that before
about 1998 nobody had anything but low quality frames. In some of those,
it really looked like the lapel was flipping over. Then much better
frames became available and it did not look like a lapel flip anymore.
Some were well trained to see a lapel flip and continued to see it that
way.
Others shifted to jacket bulge. Nobody seemed to consider that it might
be something else entirely. The only argument I have ever heard for the
explanation being some sort of clothing movement is, "What else could it
be?" There is definitely something else it could be.
Nobody seems to notice that in the "lapel flip" frames, 222 and
223, there is also a specular reflection coming from the handhold in front
of Connally that goes dark in 224 just like Connally's chest. In fact, on
close examination, the illumination of both the handhold and the chest go
through the same states in 222, 223, and 224. Dim, bright, then off. This
clip has frames 222-232.
http://joliraja.com/LapelFlip/MainAnimation/222-233.html
There are four images in the jpg below.
http://joliraja.com/LapelFlip/4HandholdSpecular.jpg
From left to right the crops are from a motorcade picture that shows the
handhold fairly well, and Zapruder frames 248, 223, and 222.
The handhold is a cylinder that is vertical at its base and then curves
around to the top part which is not truly horizontal but slopes up toward
the center of the limo. Here is a page on how sunlight is reflected off a
cylinder. If you go there, just use the > and < buttons and not "play" to
advance the slide show at the top. (If you don't know about the law of
reflection, you will probably need to find out. It's pretty simple.)
http://joliraja.com/CylinderReflect/CylinderReflect.html
To summarize the page, a cylinder is curved in two dimensions but straight
in the other. If the cylinder is in a vertical position, the straight
dimension is vertical and the surface normals are all horizontal. (I'm
not considering the top or bottom here) The horizontal component of an
incident ray contributes only to the horizontal component of the reflected
ray but the curvature of the cylinder reflects parallel rays in different
direction depending on where the ray strikes. The vertical component is
unchanged between the incident and reflected rays. A reflection of
sunlight from the cylinder can be seen over a wide range of horizontal
angles but in only one vertical direction. This means it is not really
possible to locate the source of a reflection horizontally but it can be
located precisely vertically if the orientation of the cylinder is known.
The sun was about 38 degrees above horizontal at the time of the
assassination so sunlight would have been reflected down at that same
angle from a vertical cylinder. The handhold is tilted about 3 degrees
with the slope of the road but that tilt makes light reflect a bit lower
in the horizontal direction of Zapruder. Zapruder's position is up at
about 5.5 degrees so it isn't close. The angle is off by more than 40
degrees. If the specular in 222 and 223 is coming from the vertical part
of the handhold then that light can't be coming directly from the sun.
The curved part, or corner for short, is curved in all three dimensions
so it sprays light over a wide range of angles in three dimensions. The
surface normals change a lot in a short distance so observers over a wide
range of positions see a reflection from what seems to be the same place.
Because the light is spread more widely, the reflection is not as bright
as from the vertical part. When the hat first becomes clearly visible in
frame 230, it is hiding the handhold but, shortly after that, there is no
specular on the handhold. It remains dark until 247 when a partially
formed version of the reflection seen in 248 appears. The reflection
remains virtually the same until the hand hold disappears below the frame
except when it is behind the lamp post and, after it appears for one frame
on the other side of the post, when it disappears for two frames while
Kellerman is leaning back.
That reflection is from the corner which is in Kellerman's shadow in
222-246. Either the car turned enough or Kellerman moved enough to move
Kellerman's shadow off the corner. Most of that can be seen here.
http://joliraja.com/Animations/Z263-305/263-305.html
The croppings of 222 and 223 are not very good but, in a side by side
comparison, the specular in those frames is lower, bigger, and brighter
than the one in 248 and lower in 222 than in 223. A very small change in
incidence angle would move the specular up or down the vertical part of
the handhold. The film is prone to "blooming" where bright spots are much
bigger in the image than in real life. This is caused by light moving
parallel to the film surface. A bigger bright spot is sometimes just a
brighter bright spot. Either way, the specular is quite bright in 222 and
223. My conclusion is that the specular in 222 and 223 is from the
vertical part of the handhold and thus the light could not have come
directly from the sun but must have been reflected from somewhere.
To be seen by Zapruder, the light would have to be traveling up in the
range of 7-8 degrees or 4-5 degrees in limo coordinates. If the light
came from the front and traveled more or less parallel to the side of the
car, it could pass between the window frame, which may have the weird
stripey thing on it, and the handhold with the specular, and illuminate
Connally's chest. The car turning would cause reflections to change and
move. If a curved surface was involved, it might not have to turn much.
The chrome at the base of the windshield seems like a good candidate for
the source but I have lost interest in trying to trace the path of the
reflection. The only relevance all this could have is that it might place
Connally about as far right as he could be.
" Others shifted to jacket bulge. Nobody seemed to consider that it might
be something else entirely. The only argument I have ever heard for the
explanation being some sort of clothing movement is, "What else could it
be?" There is definitely something else it could be.
Nobody seems to notice that in the "lapel flip" frames, 222 and 223, there
is also a specular reflection coming from the handhold in front of
Connally that goes dark in 224 just like Connally's chest. In fact, on
close examination, the illumination of both the handhold and the chest go
through the same states in 222, 223, and 224. Dim, bright, then off. This
clip has frames 222-232. "
http://joliraja.com/LapelFlip/MainAnimation/222-233.html
The white spot that you said disappears isnt the reflection off the hand
hold, it's John Connally's hat.
The lapel flip is important to Lattimer's single bullet theory. I don't
think it flipped. I think we see that the shirt statyed in place as the
jacket moved when he was turning.
Pamela Brown
2020-12-31 18:34:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve Barber
Post by Rusty Sites
Post by John Corbett
The FBI determine that Zapruder's camera ran at an average speed of 18.3
frames per second. Rounding out to four decimal places that comes to an
average of .0546 seconds per frame. However, each frame is not exposed for
that length of time. Movie film is simply a string of rapid fire still
photos which require a continuous series of starts and stops with the
frame being exposed during the stops with no exposure being made while the
film advances to expose the next frame. I think I read a long time ago
that each frame is exposed for 60% of the .0546 seconds follow by a gap
of 40% of the .0546 seconds. I can't find a reference to confirm if that
is true or whether this is just a faulty memory. Assuming it is true and
again rounding out to four decimal places, that means a frame is exposed
for .0328 seconds and advanced for .0219 seconds during which the camera
is not recording the action. Because the bullets would require only a
couple milliseconds to pass through the bodies of JFK and JBC, that means
that either of the shots which struck JFK could have hit him during the
exposure of a frame or during the gap between frames. The head shot could
have struck either during the exposure of frame 313 or in the gap between
312 and 313 with frame 313 showing us only the aftermath of the strike. It
is less definite as to when the single bullet struck and if it did strike
during the exposure of a frame, we don't know if it struck early during
the exposure, late or somewhere in the middle. This makes it a bit more
difficult to determine precisely when the shot was fired and when it
struck. We are left to analyze clues to determine the best fit for those
clues. The clues we have are the bulging of the JBC's jacket, and the
jiggle of Zapruder's camera at frame 227. The jiggle from head shot
occurred about 7 frames after the shot was fired. Since Zapruder was a
constant distance from the rifle, we could expect a similar amount of
frames between the shot being fired and the jiggle. That would indicate
the single bullet shot was likely fired during Z220 or the gap before or
after the exposure of that frame striking a couple frames later. The
bulging of JBC's jacket at Z224 happened after the bullet passed through
it. What we aren't sure of is how much of lag there was between the bullet
passing through and the jacket bulging. It seems to indicate a strike
about 223. The simultaneous reaction by JFK and JBC at 226 would have
occurred roughly 3-4 frames after the bullet passed through them. That
reaction could have begun in the 225-226 gap, late in the exposure of 226
or somewhere in between. What we are left with are three approximations
and it seems to me the best fit for all three of these approximations
would be the bullet strike either in the gap between 222-223 or early in
the 223 exposure.
Determining the precise instant of the single bullet strike is not
necessary for proving the validity of the SBT but it needs to be shown
that there is a plausible time frame for when that bullet struck. It think
the above analysis accomplishes that. In 1964 the WC gave us a range of
210-225 for when the single bullet could have struck. Given the advantage
of time and better technology, I think we can establish a much tighter
time frame for when that bullet struck.
I would be interested to see how others analyze these clues.
Here are some clues which I think are important for determining when
Connally was hit.
1) Everything Connally did after he came out from behind the sign was to
see JFK or see him better until he abruptly falls back about 285,
starts rolling his head back and forth, and doesn't try to see JFK
anymore. Perhaps you find some small event between 222 and 230 that you
think shows he is hit but after that you have 3-4 seconds where
Connally does not appear to be behaving as if he is hit and certainly
not like he has shattered ribs. How does that not strongly argue
against him being hit when you think he was? One of my guiding
principles is, once they're hit, they stay hit. Another clue is that,
in his hospital interview, Connally said he turned and saw JFK was
slumped before he was hit. It doesn't seem possible that Connally
could have seen JFK until well after 240.
2) Right after 285, both women move briskly towards their husbands and
become focused on them. The driver, who has been looking back since we
could first see him, turns to the front only to turn back around
shortly after that. It sure looks like something happened there.
3) Connally's wrist and hand can't be seen at 285. The camera has moved
up and nothing below his chin is visible. Shortly before that, they
are visible and at that time, he has his arm against his chest in about
the position to line up the entry wound on his wrist with the exit
wound on his chest. Dr. Gregory treated Connally's wrist wound after
others had treated his chest wound. He had no reason to connect the
chest wound with the wrist wound or to believe that the same bullet
caused both. He identified a wound on the palm as an exit wound even
though his characterization of it, a slit that did not gape, does not
sound at all like an exit wound. What Gregory was sure of was the
wrist wound was one of entrance. He inferred falsely that palm wound
must be the exit wound. There is a cleft in the heal of the hand that
leads right to the palm wound area. The hat would have been protecting
most of Connally's hand but there would have been a little path to the
palm. The exiting bullet and debris would have slammed into the radius
bone and splattered. Some piece went dowm that little path and cut
Connally's hand.
About that "jacket bulge". I think the history is that before
about 1998 nobody had anything but low quality frames. In some of those,
it really looked like the lapel was flipping over. Then much better
frames became available and it did not look like a lapel flip anymore.
Some were well trained to see a lapel flip and continued to see it that
way.
Others shifted to jacket bulge. Nobody seemed to consider that it might
be something else entirely. The only argument I have ever heard for the
explanation being some sort of clothing movement is, "What else could it
be?" There is definitely something else it could be.
Nobody seems to notice that in the "lapel flip" frames, 222 and
223, there is also a specular reflection coming from the handhold in front
of Connally that goes dark in 224 just like Connally's chest. In fact, on
close examination, the illumination of both the handhold and the chest go
through the same states in 222, 223, and 224. Dim, bright, then off. This
clip has frames 222-232.
http://joliraja.com/LapelFlip/MainAnimation/222-233.html
There are four images in the jpg below.
http://joliraja.com/LapelFlip/4HandholdSpecular.jpg
From left to right the crops are from a motorcade picture that shows the
handhold fairly well, and Zapruder frames 248, 223, and 222.
The handhold is a cylinder that is vertical at its base and then curves
around to the top part which is not truly horizontal but slopes up toward
the center of the limo. Here is a page on how sunlight is reflected off a
cylinder. If you go there, just use the > and < buttons and not "play" to
advance the slide show at the top. (If you don't know about the law of
reflection, you will probably need to find out. It's pretty simple.)
http://joliraja.com/CylinderReflect/CylinderReflect.html
To summarize the page, a cylinder is curved in two dimensions but straight
in the other. If the cylinder is in a vertical position, the straight
dimension is vertical and the surface normals are all horizontal. (I'm
not considering the top or bottom here) The horizontal component of an
incident ray contributes only to the horizontal component of the reflected
ray but the curvature of the cylinder reflects parallel rays in different
direction depending on where the ray strikes. The vertical component is
unchanged between the incident and reflected rays. A reflection of
sunlight from the cylinder can be seen over a wide range of horizontal
angles but in only one vertical direction. This means it is not really
possible to locate the source of a reflection horizontally but it can be
located precisely vertically if the orientation of the cylinder is known.
The sun was about 38 degrees above horizontal at the time of the
assassination so sunlight would have been reflected down at that same
angle from a vertical cylinder. The handhold is tilted about 3 degrees
with the slope of the road but that tilt makes light reflect a bit lower
in the horizontal direction of Zapruder. Zapruder's position is up at
about 5.5 degrees so it isn't close. The angle is off by more than 40
degrees. If the specular in 222 and 223 is coming from the vertical part
of the handhold then that light can't be coming directly from the sun.
The curved part, or corner for short, is curved in all three dimensions
so it sprays light over a wide range of angles in three dimensions. The
surface normals change a lot in a short distance so observers over a wide
range of positions see a reflection from what seems to be the same place.
Because the light is spread more widely, the reflection is not as bright
as from the vertical part. When the hat first becomes clearly visible in
frame 230, it is hiding the handhold but, shortly after that, there is no
specular on the handhold. It remains dark until 247 when a partially
formed version of the reflection seen in 248 appears. The reflection
remains virtually the same until the hand hold disappears below the frame
except when it is behind the lamp post and, after it appears for one frame
on the other side of the post, when it disappears for two frames while
Kellerman is leaning back.
That reflection is from the corner which is in Kellerman's shadow in
222-246. Either the car turned enough or Kellerman moved enough to move
Kellerman's shadow off the corner. Most of that can be seen here.
http://joliraja.com/Animations/Z263-305/263-305.html
The croppings of 222 and 223 are not very good but, in a side by side
comparison, the specular in those frames is lower, bigger, and brighter
than the one in 248 and lower in 222 than in 223. A very small change in
incidence angle would move the specular up or down the vertical part of
the handhold. The film is prone to "blooming" where bright spots are much
bigger in the image than in real life. This is caused by light moving
parallel to the film surface. A bigger bright spot is sometimes just a
brighter bright spot. Either way, the specular is quite bright in 222 and
223. My conclusion is that the specular in 222 and 223 is from the
vertical part of the handhold and thus the light could not have come
directly from the sun but must have been reflected from somewhere.
To be seen by Zapruder, the light would have to be traveling up in the
range of 7-8 degrees or 4-5 degrees in limo coordinates. If the light
came from the front and traveled more or less parallel to the side of the
car, it could pass between the window frame, which may have the weird
stripey thing on it, and the handhold with the specular, and illuminate
Connally's chest. The car turning would cause reflections to change and
move. If a curved surface was involved, it might not have to turn much.
The chrome at the base of the windshield seems like a good candidate for
the source but I have lost interest in trying to trace the path of the
reflection. The only relevance all this could have is that it might place
Connally about as far right as he could be.
" Others shifted to jacket bulge. Nobody seemed to consider that it might
be something else entirely. The only argument I have ever heard for the
explanation being some sort of clothing movement is, "What else could it
be?" There is definitely something else it could be.
Nobody seems to notice that in the "lapel flip" frames, 222 and 223, there
is also a specular reflection coming from the handhold in front of
Connally that goes dark in 224 just like Connally's chest. In fact, on
close examination, the illumination of both the handhold and the chest go
through the same states in 222, 223, and 224. Dim, bright, then off. This
clip has frames 222-232. "
http://joliraja.com/LapelFlip/MainAnimation/222-233.html
The white spot that you said disappears isnt the reflection off the hand
hold, it's John Connally's hat.
The lapel flip is important to Lattimer's single bullet theory. I don't
think it flipped. I think we see that the shirt statyed in place as the
jacket moved when he was turning.
I agree. There may have been a reflection from the small side window of
the partition that made it appear to be a flip.
John Corbett
2021-01-01 00:56:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela Brown
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve Barber
Post by Rusty Sites
Post by John Corbett
The FBI determine that Zapruder's camera ran at an average speed of 18.3
frames per second. Rounding out to four decimal places that comes to an
average of .0546 seconds per frame. However, each frame is not exposed for
that length of time. Movie film is simply a string of rapid fire still
photos which require a continuous series of starts and stops with the
frame being exposed during the stops with no exposure being made while the
film advances to expose the next frame. I think I read a long time ago
that each frame is exposed for 60% of the .0546 seconds follow by a gap
of 40% of the .0546 seconds. I can't find a reference to confirm if that
is true or whether this is just a faulty memory. Assuming it is true and
again rounding out to four decimal places, that means a frame is exposed
for .0328 seconds and advanced for .0219 seconds during which the camera
is not recording the action. Because the bullets would require only a
couple milliseconds to pass through the bodies of JFK and JBC, that means
that either of the shots which struck JFK could have hit him during the
exposure of a frame or during the gap between frames. The head shot could
have struck either during the exposure of frame 313 or in the gap between
312 and 313 with frame 313 showing us only the aftermath of the strike. It
is less definite as to when the single bullet struck and if it did strike
during the exposure of a frame, we don't know if it struck early during
the exposure, late or somewhere in the middle. This makes it a bit more
difficult to determine precisely when the shot was fired and when it
struck. We are left to analyze clues to determine the best fit for those
clues. The clues we have are the bulging of the JBC's jacket, and the
jiggle of Zapruder's camera at frame 227. The jiggle from head shot
occurred about 7 frames after the shot was fired. Since Zapruder was a
constant distance from the rifle, we could expect a similar amount of
frames between the shot being fired and the jiggle. That would indicate
the single bullet shot was likely fired during Z220 or the gap before or
after the exposure of that frame striking a couple frames later. The
bulging of JBC's jacket at Z224 happened after the bullet passed through
it. What we aren't sure of is how much of lag there was between the bullet
passing through and the jacket bulging. It seems to indicate a strike
about 223. The simultaneous reaction by JFK and JBC at 226 would have
occurred roughly 3-4 frames after the bullet passed through them. That
reaction could have begun in the 225-226 gap, late in the exposure of 226
or somewhere in between. What we are left with are three approximations
and it seems to me the best fit for all three of these approximations
would be the bullet strike either in the gap between 222-223 or early in
the 223 exposure.
Determining the precise instant of the single bullet strike is not
necessary for proving the validity of the SBT but it needs to be shown
that there is a plausible time frame for when that bullet struck. It think
the above analysis accomplishes that. In 1964 the WC gave us a range of
210-225 for when the single bullet could have struck. Given the advantage
of time and better technology, I think we can establish a much tighter
time frame for when that bullet struck.
I would be interested to see how others analyze these clues.
Here are some clues which I think are important for determining when
Connally was hit.
1) Everything Connally did after he came out from behind the sign was to
see JFK or see him better until he abruptly falls back about 285,
starts rolling his head back and forth, and doesn't try to see JFK
anymore. Perhaps you find some small event between 222 and 230 that you
think shows he is hit but after that you have 3-4 seconds where
Connally does not appear to be behaving as if he is hit and certainly
not like he has shattered ribs. How does that not strongly argue
against him being hit when you think he was? One of my guiding
principles is, once they're hit, they stay hit. Another clue is that,
in his hospital interview, Connally said he turned and saw JFK was
slumped before he was hit. It doesn't seem possible that Connally
could have seen JFK until well after 240.
2) Right after 285, both women move briskly towards their husbands and
become focused on them. The driver, who has been looking back since we
could first see him, turns to the front only to turn back around
shortly after that. It sure looks like something happened there.
3) Connally's wrist and hand can't be seen at 285. The camera has moved
up and nothing below his chin is visible. Shortly before that, they
are visible and at that time, he has his arm against his chest in about
the position to line up the entry wound on his wrist with the exit
wound on his chest. Dr. Gregory treated Connally's wrist wound after
others had treated his chest wound. He had no reason to connect the
chest wound with the wrist wound or to believe that the same bullet
caused both. He identified a wound on the palm as an exit wound even
though his characterization of it, a slit that did not gape, does not
sound at all like an exit wound. What Gregory was sure of was the
wrist wound was one of entrance. He inferred falsely that palm wound
must be the exit wound. There is a cleft in the heal of the hand that
leads right to the palm wound area. The hat would have been protecting
most of Connally's hand but there would have been a little path to the
palm. The exiting bullet and debris would have slammed into the radius
bone and splattered. Some piece went dowm that little path and cut
Connally's hand.
About that "jacket bulge". I think the history is that before
about 1998 nobody had anything but low quality frames. In some of those,
it really looked like the lapel was flipping over. Then much better
frames became available and it did not look like a lapel flip anymore.
Some were well trained to see a lapel flip and continued to see it that
way.
Others shifted to jacket bulge. Nobody seemed to consider that it might
be something else entirely. The only argument I have ever heard for the
explanation being some sort of clothing movement is, "What else could it
be?" There is definitely something else it could be.
Nobody seems to notice that in the "lapel flip" frames, 222 and
223, there is also a specular reflection coming from the handhold in front
of Connally that goes dark in 224 just like Connally's chest. In fact, on
close examination, the illumination of both the handhold and the chest go
through the same states in 222, 223, and 224. Dim, bright, then off. This
clip has frames 222-232.
http://joliraja.com/LapelFlip/MainAnimation/222-233.html
There are four images in the jpg below.
http://joliraja.com/LapelFlip/4HandholdSpecular.jpg
From left to right the crops are from a motorcade picture that shows the
handhold fairly well, and Zapruder frames 248, 223, and 222.
The handhold is a cylinder that is vertical at its base and then curves
around to the top part which is not truly horizontal but slopes up toward
the center of the limo. Here is a page on how sunlight is reflected off a
cylinder. If you go there, just use the > and < buttons and not "play" to
advance the slide show at the top. (If you don't know about the law of
reflection, you will probably need to find out. It's pretty simple.)
http://joliraja.com/CylinderReflect/CylinderReflect.html
To summarize the page, a cylinder is curved in two dimensions but straight
in the other. If the cylinder is in a vertical position, the straight
dimension is vertical and the surface normals are all horizontal. (I'm
not considering the top or bottom here) The horizontal component of an
incident ray contributes only to the horizontal component of the reflected
ray but the curvature of the cylinder reflects parallel rays in different
direction depending on where the ray strikes. The vertical component is
unchanged between the incident and reflected rays. A reflection of
sunlight from the cylinder can be seen over a wide range of horizontal
angles but in only one vertical direction. This means it is not really
possible to locate the source of a reflection horizontally but it can be
located precisely vertically if the orientation of the cylinder is known.
The sun was about 38 degrees above horizontal at the time of the
assassination so sunlight would have been reflected down at that same
angle from a vertical cylinder. The handhold is tilted about 3 degrees
with the slope of the road but that tilt makes light reflect a bit lower
in the horizontal direction of Zapruder. Zapruder's position is up at
about 5.5 degrees so it isn't close. The angle is off by more than 40
degrees. If the specular in 222 and 223 is coming from the vertical part
of the handhold then that light can't be coming directly from the sun.
The curved part, or corner for short, is curved in all three dimensions
so it sprays light over a wide range of angles in three dimensions. The
surface normals change a lot in a short distance so observers over a wide
range of positions see a reflection from what seems to be the same place.
Because the light is spread more widely, the reflection is not as bright
as from the vertical part. When the hat first becomes clearly visible in
frame 230, it is hiding the handhold but, shortly after that, there is no
specular on the handhold. It remains dark until 247 when a partially
formed version of the reflection seen in 248 appears. The reflection
remains virtually the same until the hand hold disappears below the frame
except when it is behind the lamp post and, after it appears for one frame
on the other side of the post, when it disappears for two frames while
Kellerman is leaning back.
That reflection is from the corner which is in Kellerman's shadow in
222-246. Either the car turned enough or Kellerman moved enough to move
Kellerman's shadow off the corner. Most of that can be seen here.
http://joliraja.com/Animations/Z263-305/263-305.html
The croppings of 222 and 223 are not very good but, in a side by side
comparison, the specular in those frames is lower, bigger, and brighter
than the one in 248 and lower in 222 than in 223. A very small change in
incidence angle would move the specular up or down the vertical part of
the handhold. The film is prone to "blooming" where bright spots are much
bigger in the image than in real life. This is caused by light moving
parallel to the film surface. A bigger bright spot is sometimes just a
brighter bright spot. Either way, the specular is quite bright in 222 and
223. My conclusion is that the specular in 222 and 223 is from the
vertical part of the handhold and thus the light could not have come
directly from the sun but must have been reflected from somewhere.
To be seen by Zapruder, the light would have to be traveling up in the
range of 7-8 degrees or 4-5 degrees in limo coordinates. If the light
came from the front and traveled more or less parallel to the side of the
car, it could pass between the window frame, which may have the weird
stripey thing on it, and the handhold with the specular, and illuminate
Connally's chest. The car turning would cause reflections to change and
move. If a curved surface was involved, it might not have to turn much.
The chrome at the base of the windshield seems like a good candidate for
the source but I have lost interest in trying to trace the path of the
reflection. The only relevance all this could have is that it might place
Connally about as far right as he could be.
" Others shifted to jacket bulge. Nobody seemed to consider that it might
be something else entirely. The only argument I have ever heard for the
explanation being some sort of clothing movement is, "What else could it
be?" There is definitely something else it could be.
Nobody seems to notice that in the "lapel flip" frames, 222 and 223, there
is also a specular reflection coming from the handhold in front of
Connally that goes dark in 224 just like Connally's chest. In fact, on
close examination, the illumination of both the handhold and the chest go
through the same states in 222, 223, and 224. Dim, bright, then off. This
clip has frames 222-232. "
http://joliraja.com/LapelFlip/MainAnimation/222-233.html
The white spot that you said disappears isnt the reflection off the hand
hold, it's John Connally's hat.
The lapel flip is important to Lattimer's single bullet theory. I don't
think it flipped. I think we see that the shirt statyed in place as the
jacket moved when he was turning.
I agree. There may have been a reflection from the small side window of
the partition that made it appear to be a flip.
Did the reflection cause JFK and JBC to flip their arms upward two frames
later?
Anthony Marsh
2021-01-03 17:51:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Corbett
Post by Pamela Brown
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve Barber
Post by Rusty Sites
Post by John Corbett
The FBI determine that Zapruder's camera ran at an average speed of 18.3
frames per second. Rounding out to four decimal places that comes to an
average of .0546 seconds per frame. However, each frame is not exposed for
that length of time. Movie film is simply a string of rapid fire still
photos which require a continuous series of starts and stops with the
frame being exposed during the stops with no exposure being made while the
film advances to expose the next frame. I think I read a long time ago
that each frame is exposed for 60% of the .0546 seconds follow by a gap
of 40% of the .0546 seconds. I can't find a reference to confirm if that
is true or whether this is just a faulty memory. Assuming it is true and
again rounding out to four decimal places, that means a frame is exposed
for .0328 seconds and advanced for .0219 seconds during which the camera
is not recording the action. Because the bullets would require only a
couple milliseconds to pass through the bodies of JFK and JBC, that means
that either of the shots which struck JFK could have hit him during the
exposure of a frame or during the gap between frames. The head shot could
have struck either during the exposure of frame 313 or in the gap between
312 and 313 with frame 313 showing us only the aftermath of the strike. It
is less definite as to when the single bullet struck and if it did strike
during the exposure of a frame, we don't know if it struck early during
the exposure, late or somewhere in the middle. This makes it a bit more
difficult to determine precisely when the shot was fired and when it
struck. We are left to analyze clues to determine the best fit for those
clues. The clues we have are the bulging of the JBC's jacket, and the
jiggle of Zapruder's camera at frame 227. The jiggle from head shot
occurred about 7 frames after the shot was fired. Since Zapruder was a
constant distance from the rifle, we could expect a similar amount of
frames between the shot being fired and the jiggle. That would indicate
the single bullet shot was likely fired during Z220 or the gap before or
after the exposure of that frame striking a couple frames later. The
bulging of JBC's jacket at Z224 happened after the bullet passed through
it. What we aren't sure of is how much of lag there was between the bullet
passing through and the jacket bulging. It seems to indicate a strike
about 223. The simultaneous reaction by JFK and JBC at 226 would have
occurred roughly 3-4 frames after the bullet passed through them. That
reaction could have begun in the 225-226 gap, late in the exposure of 226
or somewhere in between. What we are left with are three approximations
and it seems to me the best fit for all three of these approximations
would be the bullet strike either in the gap between 222-223 or early in
the 223 exposure.
Determining the precise instant of the single bullet strike is not
necessary for proving the validity of the SBT but it needs to be shown
that there is a plausible time frame for when that bullet struck. It think
the above analysis accomplishes that. In 1964 the WC gave us a range of
210-225 for when the single bullet could have struck. Given the advantage
of time and better technology, I think we can establish a much tighter
time frame for when that bullet struck.
I would be interested to see how others analyze these clues.
Here are some clues which I think are important for determining when
Connally was hit.
1) Everything Connally did after he came out from behind the sign was to
see JFK or see him better until he abruptly falls back about 285,
starts rolling his head back and forth, and doesn't try to see JFK
anymore. Perhaps you find some small event between 222 and 230 that you
think shows he is hit but after that you have 3-4 seconds where
Connally does not appear to be behaving as if he is hit and certainly
not like he has shattered ribs. How does that not strongly argue
against him being hit when you think he was? One of my guiding
principles is, once they're hit, they stay hit. Another clue is that,
in his hospital interview, Connally said he turned and saw JFK was
slumped before he was hit. It doesn't seem possible that Connally
could have seen JFK until well after 240.
2) Right after 285, both women move briskly towards their husbands and
become focused on them. The driver, who has been looking back since we
could first see him, turns to the front only to turn back around
shortly after that. It sure looks like something happened there.
3) Connally's wrist and hand can't be seen at 285. The camera has moved
up and nothing below his chin is visible. Shortly before that, they
are visible and at that time, he has his arm against his chest in about
the position to line up the entry wound on his wrist with the exit
wound on his chest. Dr. Gregory treated Connally's wrist wound after
others had treated his chest wound. He had no reason to connect the
chest wound with the wrist wound or to believe that the same bullet
caused both. He identified a wound on the palm as an exit wound even
though his characterization of it, a slit that did not gape, does not
sound at all like an exit wound. What Gregory was sure of was the
wrist wound was one of entrance. He inferred falsely that palm wound
must be the exit wound. There is a cleft in the heal of the hand that
leads right to the palm wound area. The hat would have been protecting
most of Connally's hand but there would have been a little path to the
palm. The exiting bullet and debris would have slammed into the radius
bone and splattered. Some piece went dowm that little path and cut
Connally's hand.
About that "jacket bulge". I think the history is that before
about 1998 nobody had anything but low quality frames. In some of those,
it really looked like the lapel was flipping over. Then much better
frames became available and it did not look like a lapel flip anymore.
Some were well trained to see a lapel flip and continued to see it that
way.
Others shifted to jacket bulge. Nobody seemed to consider that it might
be something else entirely. The only argument I have ever heard for the
explanation being some sort of clothing movement is, "What else could it
be?" There is definitely something else it could be.
Nobody seems to notice that in the "lapel flip" frames, 222 and
223, there is also a specular reflection coming from the handhold in front
of Connally that goes dark in 224 just like Connally's chest. In fact, on
close examination, the illumination of both the handhold and the chest go
through the same states in 222, 223, and 224. Dim, bright, then off. This
clip has frames 222-232.
http://joliraja.com/LapelFlip/MainAnimation/222-233.html
There are four images in the jpg below.
http://joliraja.com/LapelFlip/4HandholdSpecular.jpg
From left to right the crops are from a motorcade picture that shows the
handhold fairly well, and Zapruder frames 248, 223, and 222.
The handhold is a cylinder that is vertical at its base and then curves
around to the top part which is not truly horizontal but slopes up toward
the center of the limo. Here is a page on how sunlight is reflected off a
cylinder. If you go there, just use the > and < buttons and not "play" to
advance the slide show at the top. (If you don't know about the law of
reflection, you will probably need to find out. It's pretty simple.)
http://joliraja.com/CylinderReflect/CylinderReflect.html
To summarize the page, a cylinder is curved in two dimensions but straight
in the other. If the cylinder is in a vertical position, the straight
dimension is vertical and the surface normals are all horizontal. (I'm
not considering the top or bottom here) The horizontal component of an
incident ray contributes only to the horizontal component of the reflected
ray but the curvature of the cylinder reflects parallel rays in different
direction depending on where the ray strikes. The vertical component is
unchanged between the incident and reflected rays. A reflection of
sunlight from the cylinder can be seen over a wide range of horizontal
angles but in only one vertical direction. This means it is not really
possible to locate the source of a reflection horizontally but it can be
located precisely vertically if the orientation of the cylinder is known.
The sun was about 38 degrees above horizontal at the time of the
assassination so sunlight would have been reflected down at that same
angle from a vertical cylinder. The handhold is tilted about 3 degrees
with the slope of the road but that tilt makes light reflect a bit lower
in the horizontal direction of Zapruder. Zapruder's position is up at
about 5.5 degrees so it isn't close. The angle is off by more than 40
degrees. If the specular in 222 and 223 is coming from the vertical part
of the handhold then that light can't be coming directly from the sun.
The curved part, or corner for short, is curved in all three dimensions
so it sprays light over a wide range of angles in three dimensions. The
surface normals change a lot in a short distance so observers over a wide
range of positions see a reflection from what seems to be the same place.
Because the light is spread more widely, the reflection is not as bright
as from the vertical part. When the hat first becomes clearly visible in
frame 230, it is hiding the handhold but, shortly after that, there is no
specular on the handhold. It remains dark until 247 when a partially
formed version of the reflection seen in 248 appears. The reflection
remains virtually the same until the hand hold disappears below the frame
except when it is behind the lamp post and, after it appears for one frame
on the other side of the post, when it disappears for two frames while
Kellerman is leaning back.
That reflection is from the corner which is in Kellerman's shadow in
222-246. Either the car turned enough or Kellerman moved enough to move
Kellerman's shadow off the corner. Most of that can be seen here.
http://joliraja.com/Animations/Z263-305/263-305.html
The croppings of 222 and 223 are not very good but, in a side by side
comparison, the specular in those frames is lower, bigger, and brighter
than the one in 248 and lower in 222 than in 223. A very small change in
incidence angle would move the specular up or down the vertical part of
the handhold. The film is prone to "blooming" where bright spots are much
bigger in the image than in real life. This is caused by light moving
parallel to the film surface. A bigger bright spot is sometimes just a
brighter bright spot. Either way, the specular is quite bright in 222 and
223. My conclusion is that the specular in 222 and 223 is from the
vertical part of the handhold and thus the light could not have come
directly from the sun but must have been reflected from somewhere.
To be seen by Zapruder, the light would have to be traveling up in the
range of 7-8 degrees or 4-5 degrees in limo coordinates. If the light
came from the front and traveled more or less parallel to the side of the
car, it could pass between the window frame, which may have the weird
stripey thing on it, and the handhold with the specular, and illuminate
Connally's chest. The car turning would cause reflections to change and
move. If a curved surface was involved, it might not have to turn much.
The chrome at the base of the windshield seems like a good candidate for
the source but I have lost interest in trying to trace the path of the
reflection. The only relevance all this could have is that it might place
Connally about as far right as he could be.
" Others shifted to jacket bulge. Nobody seemed to consider that it might
be something else entirely. The only argument I have ever heard for the
explanation being some sort of clothing movement is, "What else could it
be?" There is definitely something else it could be.
Nobody seems to notice that in the "lapel flip" frames, 222 and 223, there
is also a specular reflection coming from the handhold in front of
Connally that goes dark in 224 just like Connally's chest. In fact, on
close examination, the illumination of both the handhold and the chest go
through the same states in 222, 223, and 224. Dim, bright, then off. This
clip has frames 222-232. "
http://joliraja.com/LapelFlip/MainAnimation/222-233.html
The white spot that you said disappears isnt the reflection off the hand
hold, it's John Connally's hat.
The lapel flip is important to Lattimer's single bullet theory. I don't
think it flipped. I think we see that the shirt statyed in place as the
jacket moved when he was turning.
I agree. There may have been a reflection from the small side window of
the partition that made it appear to be a flip.
Did the reflection cause JFK and JBC to flip their arms upward two frames
later?
You are imagining things. You don't even have the Zapruder frames.
John Corbett
2021-01-04 01:05:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John Corbett
Post by Pamela Brown
I agree. There may have been a reflection from the small side window of
the partition that made it appear to be a flip.
Did the reflection cause JFK and JBC to flip their arms upward two frames
later?
You are imagining things. You don't even have the Zapruder frames.
Anybody with an internet connection has the Zarpuder frames.

Do you ever tire of making inane comments? Apparently not.
Anthony Marsh
2021-01-05 01:03:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Corbett
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John Corbett
Post by Pamela Brown
I agree. There may have been a reflection from the small side window of
the partition that made it appear to be a flip.
Did the reflection cause JFK and JBC to flip their arms upward two frames
later?
You are imagining things. You don't even have the Zapruder frames.
Anybody with an internet connection has the Zarpuder frames.
Do you ever tire of making inane comments? Apparently not.
Silly. Only very poor quality.
John Corbett
2021-01-05 15:20:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John Corbett
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John Corbett
Post by Pamela Brown
I agree. There may have been a reflection from the small side window of
the partition that made it appear to be a flip.
Did the reflection cause JFK and JBC to flip their arms upward two frames
later?
You are imagining things. You don't even have the Zapruder frames.
Anybody with an internet connection has the Zarpuder frames.
Do you ever tire of making inane comments? Apparently not.
Silly. Only very poor quality.
Is that so? Tell us where you got Zapruder frames of higher quality from.
Anthony Marsh
2021-01-05 20:07:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Corbett
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John Corbett
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John Corbett
Post by Pamela Brown
I agree. There may have been a reflection from the small side window of
the partition that made it appear to be a flip.
Did the reflection cause JFK and JBC to flip their arms upward two frames
later?
You are imagining things. You don't even have the Zapruder frames.
Anybody with an internet connection has the Zarpuder frames.
Do you ever tire of making inane comments? Apparently not.
Silly. Only very poor quality.
Is that so? Tell us where you got Zapruder frames of higher quality from.
CANadA
Brian Roselle
2020-12-26 16:43:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rusty Sites
Post by John Corbett
The FBI determine that Zapruder's camera ran at an average speed of 18.3
frames per second. Rounding out to four decimal places that comes to an
average of .0546 seconds per frame. However, each frame is not exposed for
that length of time. Movie film is simply a string of rapid fire still
photos which require a continuous series of starts and stops with the
frame being exposed during the stops with no exposure being made while the
film advances to expose the next frame. I think I read a long time ago
that each frame is exposed for 60% of the .0546 seconds follow by a gap
of 40% of the .0546 seconds. I can't find a reference to confirm if that
is true or whether this is just a faulty memory. Assuming it is true and
again rounding out to four decimal places, that means a frame is exposed
for .0328 seconds and advanced for .0219 seconds during which the camera
is not recording the action. Because the bullets would require only a
couple milliseconds to pass through the bodies of JFK and JBC, that means
that either of the shots which struck JFK could have hit him during the
exposure of a frame or during the gap between frames. The head shot could
have struck either during the exposure of frame 313 or in the gap between
312 and 313 with frame 313 showing us only the aftermath of the strike. It
is less definite as to when the single bullet struck and if it did strike
during the exposure of a frame, we don't know if it struck early during
the exposure, late or somewhere in the middle. This makes it a bit more
difficult to determine precisely when the shot was fired and when it
struck. We are left to analyze clues to determine the best fit for those
clues. The clues we have are the bulging of the JBC's jacket, and the
jiggle of Zapruder's camera at frame 227. The jiggle from head shot
occurred about 7 frames after the shot was fired. Since Zapruder was a
constant distance from the rifle, we could expect a similar amount of
frames between the shot being fired and the jiggle. That would indicate
the single bullet shot was likely fired during Z220 or the gap before or
after the exposure of that frame striking a couple frames later. The
bulging of JBC's jacket at Z224 happened after the bullet passed through
it. What we aren't sure of is how much of lag there was between the bullet
passing through and the jacket bulging. It seems to indicate a strike
about 223. The simultaneous reaction by JFK and JBC at 226 would have
occurred roughly 3-4 frames after the bullet passed through them. That
reaction could have begun in the 225-226 gap, late in the exposure of 226
or somewhere in between. What we are left with are three approximations
and it seems to me the best fit for all three of these approximations
would be the bullet strike either in the gap between 222-223 or early in
the 223 exposure.
Determining the precise instant of the single bullet strike is not
necessary for proving the validity of the SBT but it needs to be shown
that there is a plausible time frame for when that bullet struck. It think
the above analysis accomplishes that. In 1964 the WC gave us a range of
210-225 for when the single bullet could have struck. Given the advantage
of time and better technology, I think we can establish a much tighter
time frame for when that bullet struck.
I would be interested to see how others analyze these clues.
Here are some clues which I think are important for determining when
Connally was hit.
1) Everything Connally did after he came out from behind the sign was to
see JFK or see him better until he abruptly falls back about 285,
starts rolling his head back and forth, and doesn't try to see JFK
anymore. Perhaps you find some small event between 222 and 230 that you
think shows he is hit but after that you have 3-4 seconds where
Connally does not appear to be behaving as if he is hit and certainly
not like he has shattered ribs. How does that not strongly argue
against him being hit when you think he was? One of my guiding
principles is, once they're hit, they stay hit. Another clue is that,
in his hospital interview, Connally said he turned and saw JFK was
slumped before he was hit. It doesn't seem possible that Connally
could have seen JFK until well after 240.
2) Right after 285, both women move briskly towards their husbands and
become focused on them. The driver, who has been looking back since we
could first see him, turns to the front only to turn back around
shortly after that. It sure looks like something happened there.
3) Connally's wrist and hand can't be seen at 285. The camera has moved
up and nothing below his chin is visible. Shortly before that, they
are visible and at that time, he has his arm against his chest in about
the position to line up the entry wound on his wrist with the exit
wound on his chest. Dr. Gregory treated Connally's wrist wound after
others had treated his chest wound. He had no reason to connect the
chest wound with the wrist wound or to believe that the same bullet
caused both. He identified a wound on the palm as an exit wound even
though his characterization of it, a slit that did not gape, does not
sound at all like an exit wound. What Gregory was sure of was the
wrist wound was one of entrance. He inferred falsely that palm wound
must be the exit wound. There is a cleft in the heal of the hand that
leads right to the palm wound area. The hat would have been protecting
most of Connally's hand but there would have been a little path to the
palm. The exiting bullet and debris would have slammed into the radius
bone and splattered. Some piece went dowm that little path and cut
Connally's hand.
About that "jacket bulge". I think the history is that before
about 1998 nobody had anything but low quality frames. In some of those,
it really looked like the lapel was flipping over. Then much better
frames became available and it did not look like a lapel flip anymore.
Some were well trained to see a lapel flip and continued to see it that
way.
Others shifted to jacket bulge. Nobody seemed to consider that it might
be something else entirely. The only argument I have ever heard for the
explanation being some sort of clothing movement is, "What else could it
be?" There is definitely something else it could be.
Nobody seems to notice that in the "lapel flip" frames, 222 and
223, there is also a specular reflection coming from the handhold in front
of Connally that goes dark in 224 just like Connally's chest. In fact, on
close examination, the illumination of both the handhold and the chest go
through the same states in 222, 223, and 224. Dim, bright, then off. This
clip has frames 222-232.
http://joliraja.com/LapelFlip/MainAnimation/222-233.html
There are four images in the jpg below.
http://joliraja.com/LapelFlip/4HandholdSpecular.jpg
From left to right the crops are from a motorcade picture that shows the
handhold fairly well, and Zapruder frames 248, 223, and 222.
The handhold is a cylinder that is vertical at its base and then curves
around to the top part which is not truly horizontal but slopes up toward
the center of the limo. Here is a page on how sunlight is reflected off a
cylinder. If you go there, just use the > and < buttons and not "play" to
advance the slide show at the top. (If you don't know about the law of
reflection, you will probably need to find out. It's pretty simple.)
http://joliraja.com/CylinderReflect/CylinderReflect.html
To summarize the page, a cylinder is curved in two dimensions but straight
in the other. If the cylinder is in a vertical position, the straight
dimension is vertical and the surface normals are all horizontal. (I'm
not considering the top or bottom here) The horizontal component of an
incident ray contributes only to the horizontal component of the reflected
ray but the curvature of the cylinder reflects parallel rays in different
direction depending on where the ray strikes. The vertical component is
unchanged between the incident and reflected rays. A reflection of
sunlight from the cylinder can be seen over a wide range of horizontal
angles but in only one vertical direction. This means it is not really
possible to locate the source of a reflection horizontally but it can be
located precisely vertically if the orientation of the cylinder is known.
The sun was about 38 degrees above horizontal at the time of the
assassination so sunlight would have been reflected down at that same
angle from a vertical cylinder. The handhold is tilted about 3 degrees
with the slope of the road but that tilt makes light reflect a bit lower
in the horizontal direction of Zapruder. Zapruder's position is up at
about 5.5 degrees so it isn't close. The angle is off by more than 40
degrees. If the specular in 222 and 223 is coming from the vertical part
of the handhold then that light can't be coming directly from the sun.
The curved part, or corner for short, is curved in all three dimensions
so it sprays light over a wide range of angles in three dimensions. The
surface normals change a lot in a short distance so observers over a wide
range of positions see a reflection from what seems to be the same place.
Because the light is spread more widely, the reflection is not as bright
as from the vertical part. When the hat first becomes clearly visible in
frame 230, it is hiding the handhold but, shortly after that, there is no
specular on the handhold. It remains dark until 247 when a partially
formed version of the reflection seen in 248 appears. The reflection
remains virtually the same until the hand hold disappears below the frame
except when it is behind the lamp post and, after it appears for one frame
on the other side of the post, when it disappears for two frames while
Kellerman is leaning back.
That reflection is from the corner which is in Kellerman's shadow in
222-246. Either the car turned enough or Kellerman moved enough to move
Kellerman's shadow off the corner. Most of that can be seen here.
http://joliraja.com/Animations/Z263-305/263-305.html
The croppings of 222 and 223 are not very good but, in a side by side
comparison, the specular in those frames is lower, bigger, and brighter
than the one in 248 and lower in 222 than in 223. A very small change in
incidence angle would move the specular up or down the vertical part of
the handhold. The film is prone to "blooming" where bright spots are much
bigger in the image than in real life. This is caused by light moving
parallel to the film surface. A bigger bright spot is sometimes just a
brighter bright spot. Either way, the specular is quite bright in 222 and
223. My conclusion is that the specular in 222 and 223 is from the
vertical part of the handhold and thus the light could not have come
directly from the sun but must have been reflected from somewhere.
To be seen by Zapruder, the light would have to be traveling up in the
range of 7-8 degrees or 4-5 degrees in limo coordinates. If the light
came from the front and traveled more or less parallel to the side of the
car, it could pass between the window frame, which may have the weird
stripey thing on it, and the handhold with the specular, and illuminate
Connally's chest. The car turning would cause reflections to change and
move. If a curved surface was involved, it might not have to turn much.
The chrome at the base of the windshield seems like a good candidate for
the source but I have lost interest in trying to trace the path of the
reflection. The only relevance all this could have is that it might place
Connally about as far right as he could be.
Rusty, thanks for linking that zfilm snippet. I like how it works.

Looking at that film snippet you provided, there could be a scenario of a
bullet arriving to the limo around the 221-222 timeframe. I’ll
look at a different film snippet interpretation and then look at an
associated shot timing analysis.

I’m sure I haven’t studied the second shot as much as you
have, but this is one explanation on how it might play out from the
observations on the film frames at that time.

One alternate interpretation is that the white point fading in and out
from 222 through 224 may not be a specular reflection off a metal handhold
at all, it might be a reflection off Connally’s hat. This
explanation would have the motion of his wrist being driven down at that
time, pulling the hat down with it until the arm comes back up with the
hat at ~z226. z226 is the same frame that JFK’s hands start moving
up to his throat area.

Of particular interest though is that we can see his right wrist area, as
a shirt sleeve cuff, in z222. It seems this has been largely ignored. This
is in the area below the right nipple in the film view and just below the
debris field location Steve was talking about. Between z222 and z223 his
wrist appears to have been rapidly driven down, disappearing from sight.
This is happening at the same time the hat seems to move down before it is
seen coming back up and just before I think he may be showing larger body
motions (like shoulders) in the z224-z225 range.

Earlier in the thread John was discussing some values of parameters to use
for doing some timing calculations. If I use some of the approximations he
and I discussed, this is one version of how the scenario might time out. I
think John’s estimates are good and my check here was similar to
what he was getting. Again fractions of frame numbers are just carried
along with the number crunching.

With the assumptions, a trigger time of ~z219.3 was calculated, and a
bullet arrival to the limo in the ~z221 timeframe subsequently striking
both men
Average bullet velocity in flight in the 2000 ft/sec range, I’ll
use 2071 based on a distance traveled of 188 ft. Muzzle blast arrives at
the limo at ~z222.4, then at Zapruder at ~z223.7 Approximation on Zapruder
camera jiggle at ~227.5 (as it carried over from 227 to 228). Zapruder
startle reaction time ~0.21 seconds (3.8 frames. This does not pinpoint
when the bullet struck Connally, which is what John is trying to narrow
down on, but the parameters do make it line up fairly well with the
observations on film discussed here based on the reactions observed in
Connally right after emergence from the Stemmons sign.

There could be other explanations as well, I just haven’t looked
at the second or third shots that much. The calculations do agree quite
well with these alternate observations including a right wrist driven down
just before the maximum suit/lapel bulge occurred.
Rusty Sites
2020-12-27 19:53:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Roselle
Post by Rusty Sites
Post by John Corbett
The FBI determine that Zapruder's camera ran at an average speed of 18.3
frames per second. Rounding out to four decimal places that comes to an
average of .0546 seconds per frame. However, each frame is not exposed for
that length of time. Movie film is simply a string of rapid fire still
photos which require a continuous series of starts and stops with the
frame being exposed during the stops with no exposure being made while the
film advances to expose the next frame. I think I read a long time ago
that each frame is exposed for 60% of the .0546 seconds follow by a gap
of 40% of the .0546 seconds. I can't find a reference to confirm if that
is true or whether this is just a faulty memory. Assuming it is true and
again rounding out to four decimal places, that means a frame is exposed
for .0328 seconds and advanced for .0219 seconds during which the camera
is not recording the action. Because the bullets would require only a
couple milliseconds to pass through the bodies of JFK and JBC, that means
that either of the shots which struck JFK could have hit him during the
exposure of a frame or during the gap between frames. The head shot could
have struck either during the exposure of frame 313 or in the gap between
312 and 313 with frame 313 showing us only the aftermath of the strike. It
is less definite as to when the single bullet struck and if it did strike
during the exposure of a frame, we don't know if it struck early during
the exposure, late or somewhere in the middle. This makes it a bit more
difficult to determine precisely when the shot was fired and when it
struck. We are left to analyze clues to determine the best fit for those
clues. The clues we have are the bulging of the JBC's jacket, and the
jiggle of Zapruder's camera at frame 227. The jiggle from head shot
occurred about 7 frames after the shot was fired. Since Zapruder was a
constant distance from the rifle, we could expect a similar amount of
frames between the shot being fired and the jiggle. That would indicate
the single bullet shot was likely fired during Z220 or the gap before or
after the exposure of that frame striking a couple frames later. The
bulging of JBC's jacket at Z224 happened after the bullet passed through
it. What we aren't sure of is how much of lag there was between the bullet
passing through and the jacket bulging. It seems to indicate a strike
about 223. The simultaneous reaction by JFK and JBC at 226 would have
occurred roughly 3-4 frames after the bullet passed through them. That
reaction could have begun in the 225-226 gap, late in the exposure of 226
or somewhere in between. What we are left with are three approximations
and it seems to me the best fit for all three of these approximations
would be the bullet strike either in the gap between 222-223 or early in
the 223 exposure.
Determining the precise instant of the single bullet strike is not
necessary for proving the validity of the SBT but it needs to be shown
that there is a plausible time frame for when that bullet struck. It think
the above analysis accomplishes that. In 1964 the WC gave us a range of
210-225 for when the single bullet could have struck. Given the advantage
of time and better technology, I think we can establish a much tighter
time frame for when that bullet struck.
I would be interested to see how others analyze these clues.
Here are some clues which I think are important for determining when
Connally was hit.
1) Everything Connally did after he came out from behind the sign was to
see JFK or see him better until he abruptly falls back about 285,
starts rolling his head back and forth, and doesn't try to see JFK
anymore. Perhaps you find some small event between 222 and 230 that you
think shows he is hit but after that you have 3-4 seconds where
Connally does not appear to be behaving as if he is hit and certainly
not like he has shattered ribs. How does that not strongly argue
against him being hit when you think he was? One of my guiding
principles is, once they're hit, they stay hit. Another clue is that,
in his hospital interview, Connally said he turned and saw JFK was
slumped before he was hit. It doesn't seem possible that Connally
could have seen JFK until well after 240.
2) Right after 285, both women move briskly towards their husbands and
become focused on them. The driver, who has been looking back since we
could first see him, turns to the front only to turn back around
shortly after that. It sure looks like something happened there.
3) Connally's wrist and hand can't be seen at 285. The camera has moved
up and nothing below his chin is visible. Shortly before that, they
are visible and at that time, he has his arm against his chest in about
the position to line up the entry wound on his wrist with the exit
wound on his chest. Dr. Gregory treated Connally's wrist wound after
others had treated his chest wound. He had no reason to connect the
chest wound with the wrist wound or to believe that the same bullet
caused both. He identified a wound on the palm as an exit wound even
though his characterization of it, a slit that did not gape, does not
sound at all like an exit wound. What Gregory was sure of was the
wrist wound was one of entrance. He inferred falsely that palm wound
must be the exit wound. There is a cleft in the heal of the hand that
leads right to the palm wound area. The hat would have been protecting
most of Connally's hand but there would have been a little path to the
palm. The exiting bullet and debris would have slammed into the radius
bone and splattered. Some piece went dowm that little path and cut
Connally's hand.
About that "jacket bulge". I think the history is that before
about 1998 nobody had anything but low quality frames. In some of those,
it really looked like the lapel was flipping over. Then much better
frames became available and it did not look like a lapel flip anymore.
Some were well trained to see a lapel flip and continued to see it that
way.
Others shifted to jacket bulge. Nobody seemed to consider that it might
be something else entirely. The only argument I have ever heard for the
explanation being some sort of clothing movement is, "What else could it
be?" There is definitely something else it could be.
Nobody seems to notice that in the "lapel flip" frames, 222 and
223, there is also a specular reflection coming from the handhold in front
of Connally that goes dark in 224 just like Connally's chest. In fact, on
close examination, the illumination of both the handhold and the chest go
through the same states in 222, 223, and 224. Dim, bright, then off. This
clip has frames 222-232.
http://joliraja.com/LapelFlip/MainAnimation/222-233.html
There are four images in the jpg below.
http://joliraja.com/LapelFlip/4HandholdSpecular.jpg
From left to right the crops are from a motorcade picture that shows the
handhold fairly well, and Zapruder frames 248, 223, and 222.
The handhold is a cylinder that is vertical at its base and then curves
around to the top part which is not truly horizontal but slopes up toward
the center of the limo. Here is a page on how sunlight is reflected off a
cylinder. If you go there, just use the > and < buttons and not "play" to
advance the slide show at the top. (If you don't know about the law of
reflection, you will probably need to find out. It's pretty simple.)
http://joliraja.com/CylinderReflect/CylinderReflect.html
To summarize the page, a cylinder is curved in two dimensions but straight
in the other. If the cylinder is in a vertical position, the straight
dimension is vertical and the surface normals are all horizontal. (I'm
not considering the top or bottom here) The horizontal component of an
incident ray contributes only to the horizontal component of the reflected
ray but the curvature of the cylinder reflects parallel rays in different
direction depending on where the ray strikes. The vertical component is
unchanged between the incident and reflected rays. A reflection of
sunlight from the cylinder can be seen over a wide range of horizontal
angles but in only one vertical direction. This means it is not really
possible to locate the source of a reflection horizontally but it can be
located precisely vertically if the orientation of the cylinder is known.
The sun was about 38 degrees above horizontal at the time of the
assassination so sunlight would have been reflected down at that same
angle from a vertical cylinder. The handhold is tilted about 3 degrees
with the slope of the road but that tilt makes light reflect a bit lower
in the horizontal direction of Zapruder. Zapruder's position is up at
about 5.5 degrees so it isn't close. The angle is off by more than 40
degrees. If the specular in 222 and 223 is coming from the vertical part
of the handhold then that light can't be coming directly from the sun.
The curved part, or corner for short, is curved in all three dimensions
so it sprays light over a wide range of angles in three dimensions. The
surface normals change a lot in a short distance so observers over a wide
range of positions see a reflection from what seems to be the same place.
Because the light is spread more widely, the reflection is not as bright
as from the vertical part. When the hat first becomes clearly visible in
frame 230, it is hiding the handhold but, shortly after that, there is no
specular on the handhold. It remains dark until 247 when a partially
formed version of the reflection seen in 248 appears. The reflection
remains virtually the same until the hand hold disappears below the frame
except when it is behind the lamp post and, after it appears for one frame
on the other side of the post, when it disappears for two frames while
Kellerman is leaning back.
That reflection is from the corner which is in Kellerman's shadow in
222-246. Either the car turned enough or Kellerman moved enough to move
Kellerman's shadow off the corner. Most of that can be seen here.
http://joliraja.com/Animations/Z263-305/263-305.html
The croppings of 222 and 223 are not very good but, in a side by side
comparison, the specular in those frames is lower, bigger, and brighter
than the one in 248 and lower in 222 than in 223. A very small change in
incidence angle would move the specular up or down the vertical part of
the handhold. The film is prone to "blooming" where bright spots are much
bigger in the image than in real life. This is caused by light moving
parallel to the film surface. A bigger bright spot is sometimes just a
brighter bright spot. Either way, the specular is quite bright in 222 and
223. My conclusion is that the specular in 222 and 223 is from the
vertical part of the handhold and thus the light could not have come
directly from the sun but must have been reflected from somewhere.
To be seen by Zapruder, the light would have to be traveling up in the
range of 7-8 degrees or 4-5 degrees in limo coordinates. If the light
came from the front and traveled more or less parallel to the side of the
car, it could pass between the window frame, which may have the weird
stripey thing on it, and the handhold with the specular, and illuminate
Connally's chest. The car turning would cause reflections to change and
move. If a curved surface was involved, it might not have to turn much.
The chrome at the base of the windshield seems like a good candidate for
the source but I have lost interest in trying to trace the path of the
reflection. The only relevance all this could have is that it might place
Connally about as far right as he could be.
Rusty, thanks for linking that zfilm snippet. I like how it works.
Looking at that film snippet you provided, there could be a scenario of a
bullet arriving to the limo around the 221-222 timeframe. I???ll
look at a different film snippet interpretation and then look at an
associated shot timing analysis.
I???m sure I haven???t studied the second shot as much as you
have, but this is one explanation on how it might play out from the
observations on the film frames at that time.
One alternate interpretation is that the white point fading in and out
from 222 through 224 may not be a specular reflection off a metal handhold
at all, it might be a reflection off Connally???s hat. This
explanation would have the motion of his wrist being driven down at that
time, pulling the hat down with it until the arm comes back up with the
hat at ~z226. z226 is the same frame that JFK???s hands start moving
up to his throat area.
Of particular interest though is that we can see his right wrist area, as
a shirt sleeve cuff, in z222. It seems this has been largely ignored. This
is in the area below the right nipple in the film view and just below the
debris field location Steve was talking about. Between z222 and z223 his
wrist appears to have been rapidly driven down, disappearing from sight.
This is happening at the same time the hat seems to move down before it is
seen coming back up and just before I think he may be showing larger body
motions (like shoulders) in the z224-z225 range.
Earlier in the thread John was discussing some values of parameters to use
for doing some timing calculations. If I use some of the approximations he
and I discussed, this is one version of how the scenario might time out. I
think John???s estimates are good and my check here was similar to
what he was getting. Again fractions of frame numbers are just carried
along with the number crunching.
With the assumptions, a trigger time of ~z219.3 was calculated, and a
bullet arrival to the limo in the ~z221 timeframe subsequently striking
both men
Average bullet velocity in flight in the 2000 ft/sec range, I???ll
use 2071 based on a distance traveled of 188 ft. Muzzle blast arrives at
the limo at ~z222.4, then at Zapruder at ~z223.7 Approximation on Zapruder
camera jiggle at ~227.5 (as it carried over from 227 to 228). Zapruder
startle reaction time ~0.21 seconds (3.8 frames. This does not pinpoint
when the bullet struck Connally, which is what John is trying to narrow
down on, but the parameters do make it line up fairly well with the
observations on film discussed here based on the reactions observed in
Connally right after emergence from the Stemmons sign.
There could be other explanations as well, I just haven???t looked
at the second or third shots that much. The calculations do agree quite
well with these alternate observations including a right wrist driven down
just before the maximum suit/lapel bulge occurred.
I may have something that make the issuex of whether it's the hat or
wrist moot. Whether it's the hat might be if there is a way to get part
of it in front of the vertical part of the handhold and still have the top
part visible. If the hat is against the vertical part then the reflected
light would just be illuminating the hat on the way to the chest. Not the
same light, of course. Nearby light. There are some features in 222 and
223 that don't seem to have another eexplanation.
It appears the hat becomes highly energized. Some think he is jerking
his hat up very fast because he was shot but the violence of the bullet
does not really translate into the motion of the hat. One way something
gets a lot if acceleration quickly is when somebody is pulling on a stuck
object that suddenly releases. Energy gets stored in stretched muscles
and tendons that all gets released in a flash and the object is still
being pulled on, too. That way there is a quicker initial acceleration
than is possible by pulling on a free object. I think Connally was
pulling his hat up to get it out of the way but he was sitting on it, had
it pinned to the side of the car, or it was otherwise stuck. After the
hat comes free, Connally puts the hat against the middle of his chest
which is something he would do to get it out of the way. If he was not
expecting any resistance and tried to snatch the hat up quickly, he would
start falling to his right. If he knew it was stuck and he was in an
unstable position, it would still pull him to the right. Here is a simple
experiment. Sit in a chair with wide arms or a on a bench. Your hand
can't be right under your shoulder. It has to be away from you body a
bit. Reach down and hook your right hand on whatever you are sitting on
and try to convince yourself that you can pull your hand up without any
resistance. Your upper torso gets rotated to the right which is what
happened to Connally. A stuck hat explains the hat flying up so
energetically and also Connally's rotation. Right after the hat is free,
Connally is trying to see JFK. If both were it by the same bullet,
Connally would not have known JFK had been shot. He would no longer have
had any reason to think they were shooting at JFK but good reason to think
they were shooting at him. Instead of trying to see JFK, why wouldn't he
have been taking cover?
Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
2021-01-02 02:25:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rusty Sites
Post by John Corbett
The FBI determine that Zapruder's camera ran at an average speed of 18.3
frames per second. Rounding out to four decimal places that comes to an
average of .0546 seconds per frame. However, each frame is not exposed for
that length of time. Movie film is simply a string of rapid fire still
photos which require a continuous series of starts and stops with the
frame being exposed during the stops with no exposure being made while the
film advances to expose the next frame. I think I read a long time ago
that each frame is exposed for 60% of the .0546 seconds follow by a gap
of 40% of the .0546 seconds. I can't find a reference to confirm if that
is true or whether this is just a faulty memory. Assuming it is true and
again rounding out to four decimal places, that means a frame is exposed
for .0328 seconds and advanced for .0219 seconds during which the camera
is not recording the action. Because the bullets would require only a
couple milliseconds to pass through the bodies of JFK and JBC, that means
that either of the shots which struck JFK could have hit him during the
exposure of a frame or during the gap between frames. The head shot could
have struck either during the exposure of frame 313 or in the gap between
312 and 313 with frame 313 showing us only the aftermath of the strike. It
is less definite as to when the single bullet struck and if it did strike
during the exposure of a frame, we don't know if it struck early during
the exposure, late or somewhere in the middle. This makes it a bit more
difficult to determine precisely when the shot was fired and when it
struck. We are left to analyze clues to determine the best fit for those
clues. The clues we have are the bulging of the JBC's jacket, and the
jiggle of Zapruder's camera at frame 227. The jiggle from head shot
occurred about 7 frames after the shot was fired. Since Zapruder was a
constant distance from the rifle, we could expect a similar amount of
frames between the shot being fired and the jiggle. That would indicate
the single bullet shot was likely fired during Z220 or the gap before or
after the exposure of that frame striking a couple frames later. The
bulging of JBC's jacket at Z224 happened after the bullet passed through
it. What we aren't sure of is how much of lag there was between the bullet
passing through and the jacket bulging. It seems to indicate a strike
about 223. The simultaneous reaction by JFK and JBC at 226 would have
occurred roughly 3-4 frames after the bullet passed through them. That
reaction could have begun in the 225-226 gap, late in the exposure of 226
or somewhere in between. What we are left with are three approximations
and it seems to me the best fit for all three of these approximations
would be the bullet strike either in the gap between 222-223 or early in
the 223 exposure.
Determining the precise instant of the single bullet strike is not
necessary for proving the validity of the SBT but it needs to be shown
that there is a plausible time frame for when that bullet struck. It think
the above analysis accomplishes that. In 1964 the WC gave us a range of
210-225 for when the single bullet could have struck. Given the advantage
of time and better technology, I think we can establish a much tighter
time frame for when that bullet struck.
I would be interested to see how others analyze these clues.
Here are some clues which I think are important for determining when
Connally was hit.
1) Everything Connally did after he came out from behind the sign was to
see JFK or see him better until he abruptly falls back about 285,
starts rolling his head back and forth, and doesn't try to see JFK
anymore. Perhaps you find some small event between 222 and 230 that you
think shows he is hit but after that you have 3-4 seconds where
Connally does not appear to be behaving as if he is hit and certainly
not like he has shattered ribs. How does that not strongly argue
against him being hit when you think he was? One of my guiding
principles is, once they're hit, they stay hit. Another clue is that,
in his hospital interview, Connally said he turned and saw JFK was
slumped before he was hit.
That's not true. He didn't say he saw the President was slumped. He said
"the President had slumped". In his testimony before both the Warren
Commission and the HSCA, he explained he never saw the President during
the shooting or thereafter. Nellie saw the President, and it was her
testimony the President appeared to be hit by the first shot. And that's
when the President slumped.

Nellie Connally's Warren Commission testimony:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/conn_n.htm

== QUOTE ==

Mrs. CONNALLY. In fact the receptions had been. so good every place that I
had showed much restraint by not mentioning something about it before I
could resist no longer. When we got past this area I did turn to the
President and said, "Mr. President, you can't say Dallas doesn't love
you." Then I don't know how soon, it seems to me it was very soon, that I
heard a noise, and not being an expert rifleman, I was not aware that it
was a rifle. It was just a frightening noise, and it came from the right.

I turned over my right shoulder and looked back, and saw the President as
he had both hands at his neck.

Mr. SPECTER. And you are indicating with your own hands, two hands
crossing over gripping your own neck?

Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes; and it seemed to me there was--he made no utterance,
no cry. I saw no blood, no anything. It was just sort of nothing, the
expression on his face, and he just sort of slumped down.

Then very soon there was the second shot that hit John. As the first shot
was hit, and I turned to look at the same time, I recall John saying, "Oh,
no, no, no." Then there was a second shot, and it hit John, and as he
recoiled to the right, just crumpled like a wounded animal to the right,
he said, "My God, they are going to kill us all."

== UNQUOTE ==


John Connally's Warren Commission testimony:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/conn_j.htm

== QUOTE ==

Governor CONNALLY. We had--we had gone, I guess, 150 feet, maybe 200 feet, I don't recall how far it was, heading down to get on the freeway, the Stemmons Freeway, to go out to the hall where we were going to have lunch and, as I say, the crowds had begun to thin, and we could--I was anticipating that we were going to be at the hall in approximately 5 minutes from the time we turned on Elm Street.

We had just made the turn, well, when I heard what I thought was a shot. I heard this noise which I immediately took to be a rifle shot. I instinctively turned to my right because the sound appeared to come from over my right
shoulder, so I turned to look back over my right shoulder, and I saw nothing unusual except just people in the crowd, but I did not catch the President in the corner of my eye, and I was interested, because once I heard the shot in my own mind I identified it as a rifle shot, and I immediately--the only thought that crossed my mind was that this is an assassination attempt.
So I looked, failing to see him, I was turning to look back over my left shoulder into the back seat, but I never got that far in my turn. I got about in the position I am in now facing you, looking a little bit to the left of center, and then I felt like someone had hit me in the back.
...

Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any reaction by President Kennedy after the shooting?

Governor CONNALLY. No; I did not see him.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any reaction by Mrs. Kennedy after the shooting?

Governor CONNALLY. I did not see her. This almost sounds incredible, I am sure, since we were in the car with them. But again I will repeat very briefly when what I believe to be the shot first occurred, I turned to my right, which was away from both of them, of course, and looked out and could see neither, and then as I was turning to look into the back seat where I would have seen both of them, I was hit, so I never completed the turn at all, and I never saw either one of them after the firing started, and, of course, as I have testified, then Mrs. Connally pulled me over into her lap and I was facing forward with my head slightly turned up to where I could see the driver and Roy Kellerman on his right, but I could not see into the back seat, so I didn't see either one of them.
== UNQUOTE ==

John Connally's testimony to the HSCA says he never saw the President either:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/hscacon.htm
== QUOTE ==
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. Cornwell, we had just turned to Elm. We had gone, I suspect, oh, 150, 200 feet when I heard what I thought was a rifle shot and I thought it came from--I was seated right, as you know, the jump seat right in front of the President, and they have a fairly straight back on them so I was sitting up fairly erect. I thought the shot came from back over my right shoulder, so I turned to see if I could catch a sight of the President out of the corner of my eye because I immediately had, frankly, had fear of an assassination because I thought it was a rifle shot.
I didn't think it was a blowout or explosion of any kind. I didn't see the President out of the corner of my eye, so I was in the process of, at least I was turning to look over my left shoulder into the back seat to see if I could see him. I never looked, I never made the full turn. About the time I turned back where I was facing more or less straight ahead, the way the car was moving, I was hit. I was knocked over, just doubled over by the force of the bullet. It went in my back and came out my chest about 2 inches below and the left of my right nipple. The force of the bullet drove my body over almost double and when I looked, immediately I could see I was just drenched with blood. So, I knew I had been badly hit and I more or less straightened up. At about this time, Nelly reached over and pulled me down into her lap.
I was in her lap facing forward when another shot was fired. I only heard two shots. I did not hear the shot that hit me. I wasn't conscious of it. I am sure I heard it, but I was not conscious of it at all. I heard another shot. I heard it hit. It hit with a very pronounced impact, just [slap of hands] almost like that. Almost that loud a sound; it made a very, very strong sound.
Immediately, I could see blood and brain tissue all over the interior of the car and all over our clothes. We were both covered with brain tissue, and there were pieces of brain tissue as big as your little finger. It was something that was unmistakable. There was no question in my mind about what it was.
About this moment in time, Roy Kellerman, who was the Secret Service agent sitting in the right-front seat, pushed, apparently was pushing some buttons on the panel, doing what, I don't know. I heard him say, "Let's get out of here fast," and the car lurched forward then. Bill Greer was the driver. He accelerated it tremendously.
When I was hit, or shortly before I was hit--no, I guess it was after I was hit--I said first, just almost in despair, I said, "no, no, no, just thinking how tragic it was that we had gone through this 24 hours, it had all been so wonderful and so beautifully executed. The President had been so marvelously received and then here, at the last moment this great tragedy. I just said, "no, no, no, no".
Then I said right after I was hit, I said, "My God, they are going to kill us all." ....
The shots came, in my judgment, the two shots I heard came from the same direction, back over my right shoulder, came from behind us. Very clear to me where they came from. I don't think any shots came from any other direction. I was conscious until we hit the Stemmons Freeway and then I faded into unconsciousness.
I revived when the car came to a stop at what was Parkland Hospital. Apparently, the braking of the car--we must have been traveling at an enormous rate of speed--the braking of the car brought me back to consciousness and you know it is strange what thoughts run through your mind.
The first thought that occurred to me was that I was in the jump seat, that the right door of the car was opposite my seat and that they couldn't reach the President. Well, I got out of the way and that is when I tried to raise myself up out of Nelly's lap and actually tried to get out of the car myself, so that they could get to him in the back seat.
I knew he was hit. I knew their first concern would be for the President. So, that was the reason why I lurched up, or tried to get up out of a reclining position. Of course, I couldn't. I wasn't able to. I got halfway up and just slumped again, as Nelly just told you. Then, someone did pick me up and put me on a stretcher and took me into an emergency room or trauma room, whatever it was.
I obviously didn't know what it was. At that point, I felt the first pain, really, that I had experienced and when I was on the stretcher, I was laid out. Then, there was excruciating pain in my chest.
At the time I was hit, strangely enough, I felt no sharp pain. It was as if someone had come up behind me with a doubled up fist and just hit me in the back right between the shoulder blades. It was that kind of a sensation.
I would have to volunteer the very, very strong opinion, I know much has been written, much has been discussed, I was being a participant, I can only give you my impressions, but I must say you, as I said to the Warren Commission, I do not believe, nor will I ever believe, that I was hit with the first bullet. I don't believe that. I heard the first shot. I reacted to the first shot and I was not hit with that bullet: Now, there's a great deal of speculation that the President and I were hit with the same bullet that might well, be, but it surely wasn't the first bullet and Nelly doesn't think it's the second bullet. I don't know, I didn't hear the second bullet. I felt the second bullet. We obviously weren't hit by the third bullet. I was down reclining in her lap at the time the third bullet hit.
Mr. CORNWELL. I am sorry, I didn't understand one statement. You said Mrs. Connally doesn't agree it was the second bullet or the same bullet?
Mr. CONNALLY. The second bullet.
Mrs. CONNALLY. That what?
Mr. CONNALLY. That hit me. That hit him and me--
Mrs. CONNALLY. No; I heard three shots, I had three reactions, three separate reactions. The first shot, then I looked and saw the President, the second shot, John, and third, all this matter all over us.
Mr. CORNWELL. So you agree that your recollection is it was the second shot that hit the Governor?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I know it was the second shot that hit the Governor.
Mr. CORNWELL. And, where you disagree is as to the possibility or the question of whether or not it was the same bullet that hit, is that accurate, in other words, the Governor has no knowledge on that subject matter, would that be accurate, since you didn't turn around to see the President, after the first noise, you don't know whether he was hit and Mrs. Connally's recollection is that she did turn and saw him hold his throat before you were hit, is that accurate?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I did.
Mr. CONNALLY. That is correct. I never saw him. I never saw Mrs. Kennedy after the shots were fired. I never saw either one of them, and I don't know when he was hit.
== UNQUOTE ==

Now, my problem with all this is simple: John never saw the President, so he's not qualified to say the President had slumped. He's passing on what Nellie told him. Ad he admitted that here:

== QUOTE ==
https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKconnally.htm
Eddie Barker: Do you believe, Governor Connally, that the first bullet could have missed, the second one hit both of you, and the third one hit President Kennedy?
John Connally: That's possible. That's possible. Now, the best witness I know doesn't believe that.
Eddie Barker: Who is the best witness you know?
John Connally: Nellie was there, and she saw it. She believes the first bullet hit him, because she saw him after he was hit. She thinks the second bullet hit me, and the third bullet hit him.
== UNQUOTE ==

Nellie hasn't turned to look back at the President by 223. She turned after Z223, but recalled herself turning sooner. What she saw is what the Z-film shows after the President emerges from behind the sign.

Do you believe the Governor was struck at Z285?

Hank
John Corbett
2021-01-02 05:34:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Rusty Sites
Post by John Corbett
The FBI determine that Zapruder's camera ran at an average speed of 18.3
frames per second. Rounding out to four decimal places that comes to an
average of .0546 seconds per frame. However, each frame is not exposed for
that length of time. Movie film is simply a string of rapid fire still
photos which require a continuous series of starts and stops with the
frame being exposed during the stops with no exposure being made while the
film advances to expose the next frame. I think I read a long time ago
that each frame is exposed for 60% of the .0546 seconds follow by a gap
of 40% of the .0546 seconds. I can't find a reference to confirm if that
is true or whether this is just a faulty memory. Assuming it is true and
again rounding out to four decimal places, that means a frame is exposed
for .0328 seconds and advanced for .0219 seconds during which the camera
is not recording the action. Because the bullets would require only a
couple milliseconds to pass through the bodies of JFK and JBC, that means
that either of the shots which struck JFK could have hit him during the
exposure of a frame or during the gap between frames. The head shot could
have struck either during the exposure of frame 313 or in the gap between
312 and 313 with frame 313 showing us only the aftermath of the strike. It
is less definite as to when the single bullet struck and if it did strike
during the exposure of a frame, we don't know if it struck early during
the exposure, late or somewhere in the middle. This makes it a bit more
difficult to determine precisely when the shot was fired and when it
struck. We are left to analyze clues to determine the best fit for those
clues. The clues we have are the bulging of the JBC's jacket, and the
jiggle of Zapruder's camera at frame 227. The jiggle from head shot
occurred about 7 frames after the shot was fired. Since Zapruder was a
constant distance from the rifle, we could expect a similar amount of
frames between the shot being fired and the jiggle. That would indicate
the single bullet shot was likely fired during Z220 or the gap before or
after the exposure of that frame striking a couple frames later. The
bulging of JBC's jacket at Z224 happened after the bullet passed through
it. What we aren't sure of is how much of lag there was between the bullet
passing through and the jacket bulging. It seems to indicate a strike
about 223. The simultaneous reaction by JFK and JBC at 226 would have
occurred roughly 3-4 frames after the bullet passed through them. That
reaction could have begun in the 225-226 gap, late in the exposure of 226
or somewhere in between. What we are left with are three approximations
and it seems to me the best fit for all three of these approximations
would be the bullet strike either in the gap between 222-223 or early in
the 223 exposure.
Determining the precise instant of the single bullet strike is not
necessary for proving the validity of the SBT but it needs to be shown
that there is a plausible time frame for when that bullet struck. It think
the above analysis accomplishes that. In 1964 the WC gave us a range of
210-225 for when the single bullet could have struck. Given the advantage
of time and better technology, I think we can establish a much tighter
time frame for when that bullet struck.
I would be interested to see how others analyze these clues.
Here are some clues which I think are important for determining when
Connally was hit.
1) Everything Connally did after he came out from behind the sign was to
see JFK or see him better until he abruptly falls back about 285,
starts rolling his head back and forth, and doesn't try to see JFK
anymore. Perhaps you find some small event between 222 and 230 that you
think shows he is hit but after that you have 3-4 seconds where
Connally does not appear to be behaving as if he is hit and certainly
not like he has shattered ribs. How does that not strongly argue
against him being hit when you think he was? One of my guiding
principles is, once they're hit, they stay hit. Another clue is that,
in his hospital interview, Connally said he turned and saw JFK was
slumped before he was hit.
That's not true. He didn't say he saw the President was slumped. He said
"the President had slumped". In his testimony before both the Warren
Commission and the HSCA, he explained he never saw the President during
the shooting or thereafter. Nellie saw the President, and it was her
testimony the President appeared to be hit by the first shot. And that's
when the President slumped.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/conn_n.htm
== QUOTE ==
Mrs. CONNALLY. In fact the receptions had been. so good every place that I
had showed much restraint by not mentioning something about it before I
could resist no longer. When we got past this area I did turn to the
President and said, "Mr. President, you can't say Dallas doesn't love
you." Then I don't know how soon, it seems to me it was very soon, that I
heard a noise, and not being an expert rifleman, I was not aware that it
was a rifle. It was just a frightening noise, and it came from the right.
I turned over my right shoulder and looked back, and saw the President as
he had both hands at his neck.
Mr. SPECTER. And you are indicating with your own hands, two hands
crossing over gripping your own neck?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes; and it seemed to me there was--he made no utterance,
no cry. I saw no blood, no anything. It was just sort of nothing, the
expression on his face, and he just sort of slumped down.
Then very soon there was the second shot that hit John. As the first shot
was hit, and I turned to look at the same time, I recall John saying, "Oh,
no, no, no." Then there was a second shot, and it hit John, and as he
recoiled to the right, just crumpled like a wounded animal to the right,
he said, "My God, they are going to kill us all."
== UNQUOTE ==
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/conn_j.htm
== QUOTE ==
Governor CONNALLY. We had--we had gone, I guess, 150 feet, maybe 200 feet, I don't recall how far it was, heading down to get on the freeway, the Stemmons Freeway, to go out to the hall where we were going to have lunch and, as I say, the crowds had begun to thin, and we could--I was anticipating that we were going to be at the hall in approximately 5 minutes from the time we turned on Elm Street.
We had just made the turn, well, when I heard what I thought was a shot. I heard this noise which I immediately took to be a rifle shot. I instinctively turned to my right because the sound appeared to come from over my right
shoulder, so I turned to look back over my right shoulder, and I saw nothing unusual except just people in the crowd, but I did not catch the President in the corner of my eye, and I was interested, because once I heard the shot in my own mind I identified it as a rifle shot, and I immediately--the only thought that crossed my mind was that this is an assassination attempt.
So I looked, failing to see him, I was turning to look back over my left shoulder into the back seat, but I never got that far in my turn. I got about in the position I am in now facing you, looking a little bit to the left of center, and then I felt like someone had hit me in the back.
...
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any reaction by President Kennedy after the shooting?
Governor CONNALLY. No; I did not see him.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any reaction by Mrs. Kennedy after the shooting?
Governor CONNALLY. I did not see her. This almost sounds incredible, I am sure, since we were in the car with them. But again I will repeat very briefly when what I believe to be the shot first occurred, I turned to my right, which was away from both of them, of course, and looked out and could see neither, and then as I was turning to look into the back seat where I would have seen both of them, I was hit, so I never completed the turn at all, and I never saw either one of them after the firing started, and, of course, as I have testified, then Mrs. Connally pulled me over into her lap and I was facing forward with my head slightly turned up to where I could see the driver and Roy Kellerman on his right, but I could not see into the back seat, so I didn't see either one of them.
== UNQUOTE ==
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/hscacon.htm
== QUOTE ==
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. Cornwell, we had just turned to Elm. We had gone, I suspect, oh, 150, 200 feet when I heard what I thought was a rifle shot and I thought it came from--I was seated right, as you know, the jump seat right in front of the President, and they have a fairly straight back on them so I was sitting up fairly erect. I thought the shot came from back over my right shoulder, so I turned to see if I could catch a sight of the President out of the corner of my eye because I immediately had, frankly, had fear of an assassination because I thought it was a rifle shot.
I didn't think it was a blowout or explosion of any kind. I didn't see the President out of the corner of my eye, so I was in the process of, at least I was turning to look over my left shoulder into the back seat to see if I could see him. I never looked, I never made the full turn. About the time I turned back where I was facing more or less straight ahead, the way the car was moving, I was hit. I was knocked over, just doubled over by the force of the bullet. It went in my back and came out my chest about 2 inches below and the left of my right nipple. The force of the bullet drove my body over almost double and when I looked, immediately I could see I was just drenched with blood. So, I knew I had been badly hit and I more or less straightened up. At about this time, Nelly reached over and pulled me down into her lap.
I was in her lap facing forward when another shot was fired. I only heard two shots. I did not hear the shot that hit me. I wasn't conscious of it. I am sure I heard it, but I was not conscious of it at all. I heard another shot. I heard it hit. It hit with a very pronounced impact, just [slap of hands] almost like that. Almost that loud a sound; it made a very, very strong sound.
Immediately, I could see blood and brain tissue all over the interior of the car and all over our clothes. We were both covered with brain tissue, and there were pieces of brain tissue as big as your little finger. It was something that was unmistakable. There was no question in my mind about what it was.
About this moment in time, Roy Kellerman, who was the Secret Service agent sitting in the right-front seat, pushed, apparently was pushing some buttons on the panel, doing what, I don't know. I heard him say, "Let's get out of here fast," and the car lurched forward then. Bill Greer was the driver. He accelerated it tremendously.
When I was hit, or shortly before I was hit--no, I guess it was after I was hit--I said first, just almost in despair, I said, "no, no, no, just thinking how tragic it was that we had gone through this 24 hours, it had all been so wonderful and so beautifully executed. The President had been so marvelously received and then here, at the last moment this great tragedy. I just said, "no, no, no, no".
Then I said right after I was hit, I said, "My God, they are going to kill us all." ....
The shots came, in my judgment, the two shots I heard came from the same direction, back over my right shoulder, came from behind us. Very clear to me where they came from. I don't think any shots came from any other direction. I was conscious until we hit the Stemmons Freeway and then I faded into unconsciousness.
I revived when the car came to a stop at what was Parkland Hospital. Apparently, the braking of the car--we must have been traveling at an enormous rate of speed--the braking of the car brought me back to consciousness and you know it is strange what thoughts run through your mind.
The first thought that occurred to me was that I was in the jump seat, that the right door of the car was opposite my seat and that they couldn't reach the President. Well, I got out of the way and that is when I tried to raise myself up out of Nelly's lap and actually tried to get out of the car myself, so that they could get to him in the back seat.
I knew he was hit. I knew their first concern would be for the President. So, that was the reason why I lurched up, or tried to get up out of a reclining position. Of course, I couldn't. I wasn't able to. I got halfway up and just slumped again, as Nelly just told you. Then, someone did pick me up and put me on a stretcher and took me into an emergency room or trauma room, whatever it was.
I obviously didn't know what it was. At that point, I felt the first pain, really, that I had experienced and when I was on the stretcher, I was laid out. Then, there was excruciating pain in my chest.
At the time I was hit, strangely enough, I felt no sharp pain. It was as if someone had come up behind me with a doubled up fist and just hit me in the back right between the shoulder blades. It was that kind of a sensation.
I would have to volunteer the very, very strong opinion, I know much has been written, much has been discussed, I was being a participant, I can only give you my impressions, but I must say you, as I said to the Warren Commission, I do not believe, nor will I ever believe, that I was hit with the first bullet. I don't believe that. I heard the first shot. I reacted to the first shot and I was not hit with that bullet: Now, there's a great deal of speculation that the President and I were hit with the same bullet that might well, be, but it surely wasn't the first bullet and Nelly doesn't think it's the second bullet. I don't know, I didn't hear the second bullet. I felt the second bullet. We obviously weren't hit by the third bullet. I was down reclining in her lap at the time the third bullet hit.
Mr. CORNWELL. I am sorry, I didn't understand one statement. You said Mrs. Connally doesn't agree it was the second bullet or the same bullet?
Mr. CONNALLY. The second bullet.
Mrs. CONNALLY. That what?
Mr. CONNALLY. That hit me. That hit him and me--
Mrs. CONNALLY. No; I heard three shots, I had three reactions, three separate reactions. The first shot, then I looked and saw the President, the second shot, John, and third, all this matter all over us.
Mr. CORNWELL. So you agree that your recollection is it was the second shot that hit the Governor?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I know it was the second shot that hit the Governor.
Mr. CORNWELL. And, where you disagree is as to the possibility or the question of whether or not it was the same bullet that hit, is that accurate, in other words, the Governor has no knowledge on that subject matter, would that be accurate, since you didn't turn around to see the President, after the first noise, you don't know whether he was hit and Mrs. Connally's recollection is that she did turn and saw him hold his throat before you were hit, is that accurate?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I did.
Mr. CONNALLY. That is correct. I never saw him. I never saw Mrs. Kennedy after the shots were fired. I never saw either one of them, and I don't know when he was hit.
== UNQUOTE ==
== QUOTE ==
https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKconnally.htm
Eddie Barker: Do you believe, Governor Connally, that the first bullet could have missed, the second one hit both of you, and the third one hit President Kennedy?
John Connally: That's possible. That's possible. Now, the best witness I know doesn't believe that.
Eddie Barker: Who is the best witness you know?
John Connally: Nellie was there, and she saw it. She believes the first bullet hit him, because she saw him after he was hit. She thinks the second bullet hit me, and the third bullet hit him.
== UNQUOTE ==
Nellie hasn't turned to look back at the President by 223. She turned after Z223, but recalled herself turning sooner. What she saw is what the Z-film shows after the President emerges from behind the sign.
Do you believe the Governor was struck at Z285?
It appears John Connally chose not to disagree with his wife. Who can
blame him?
Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
2021-01-02 20:41:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Corbett
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Rusty Sites
Post by John Corbett
The FBI determine that Zapruder's camera ran at an average speed of 18.3
frames per second. Rounding out to four decimal places that comes to an
average of .0546 seconds per frame. However, each frame is not exposed for
that length of time. Movie film is simply a string of rapid fire still
photos which require a continuous series of starts and stops with the
frame being exposed during the stops with no exposure being made while the
film advances to expose the next frame. I think I read a long time ago
that each frame is exposed for 60% of the .0546 seconds follow by a gap
of 40% of the .0546 seconds. I can't find a reference to confirm if that
is true or whether this is just a faulty memory. Assuming it is true and
again rounding out to four decimal places, that means a frame is exposed
for .0328 seconds and advanced for .0219 seconds during which the camera
is not recording the action. Because the bullets would require only a
couple milliseconds to pass through the bodies of JFK and JBC, that means
that either of the shots which struck JFK could have hit him during the
exposure of a frame or during the gap between frames. The head shot could
have struck either during the exposure of frame 313 or in the gap between
312 and 313 with frame 313 showing us only the aftermath of the strike. It
is less definite as to when the single bullet struck and if it did strike
during the exposure of a frame, we don't know if it struck early during
the exposure, late or somewhere in the middle. This makes it a bit more
difficult to determine precisely when the shot was fired and when it
struck. We are left to analyze clues to determine the best fit for those
clues. The clues we have are the bulging of the JBC's jacket, and the
jiggle of Zapruder's camera at frame 227. The jiggle from head shot
occurred about 7 frames after the shot was fired. Since Zapruder was a
constant distance from the rifle, we could expect a similar amount of
frames between the shot being fired and the jiggle. That would indicate
the single bullet shot was likely fired during Z220 or the gap before or
after the exposure of that frame striking a couple frames later. The
bulging of JBC's jacket at Z224 happened after the bullet passed through
it. What we aren't sure of is how much of lag there was between the bullet
passing through and the jacket bulging. It seems to indicate a strike
about 223. The simultaneous reaction by JFK and JBC at 226 would have
occurred roughly 3-4 frames after the bullet passed through them. That
reaction could have begun in the 225-226 gap, late in the exposure of 226
or somewhere in between. What we are left with are three approximations
and it seems to me the best fit for all three of these approximations
would be the bullet strike either in the gap between 222-223 or early in
the 223 exposure.
Determining the precise instant of the single bullet strike is not
necessary for proving the validity of the SBT but it needs to be shown
that there is a plausible time frame for when that bullet struck. It think
the above analysis accomplishes that. In 1964 the WC gave us a range of
210-225 for when the single bullet could have struck. Given the advantage
of time and better technology, I think we can establish a much tighter
time frame for when that bullet struck.
I would be interested to see how others analyze these clues.
Here are some clues which I think are important for determining when
Connally was hit.
1) Everything Connally did after he came out from behind the sign was to
see JFK or see him better until he abruptly falls back about 285,
starts rolling his head back and forth, and doesn't try to see JFK
anymore. Perhaps you find some small event between 222 and 230 that you
think shows he is hit but after that you have 3-4 seconds where
Connally does not appear to be behaving as if he is hit and certainly
not like he has shattered ribs. How does that not strongly argue
against him being hit when you think he was? One of my guiding
principles is, once they're hit, they stay hit. Another clue is that,
in his hospital interview, Connally said he turned and saw JFK was
slumped before he was hit.
That's not true. He didn't say he saw the President was slumped. He said
"the President had slumped". In his testimony before both the Warren
Commission and the HSCA, he explained he never saw the President during
the shooting or thereafter. Nellie saw the President, and it was her
testimony the President appeared to be hit by the first shot. And that's
when the President slumped.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/conn_n.htm
== QUOTE ==
Mrs. CONNALLY. In fact the receptions had been. so good every place that I
had showed much restraint by not mentioning something about it before I
could resist no longer. When we got past this area I did turn to the
President and said, "Mr. President, you can't say Dallas doesn't love
you." Then I don't know how soon, it seems to me it was very soon, that I
heard a noise, and not being an expert rifleman, I was not aware that it
was a rifle. It was just a frightening noise, and it came from the right.
I turned over my right shoulder and looked back, and saw the President as
he had both hands at his neck.
Mr. SPECTER. And you are indicating with your own hands, two hands
crossing over gripping your own neck?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes; and it seemed to me there was--he made no utterance,
no cry. I saw no blood, no anything. It was just sort of nothing, the
expression on his face, and he just sort of slumped down.
Then very soon there was the second shot that hit John. As the first shot
was hit, and I turned to look at the same time, I recall John saying, "Oh,
no, no, no." Then there was a second shot, and it hit John, and as he
recoiled to the right, just crumpled like a wounded animal to the right,
he said, "My God, they are going to kill us all."
== UNQUOTE ==
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/conn_j.htm
== QUOTE ==
Governor CONNALLY. We had--we had gone, I guess, 150 feet, maybe 200 feet, I don't recall how far it was, heading down to get on the freeway, the Stemmons Freeway, to go out to the hall where we were going to have lunch and, as I say, the crowds had begun to thin, and we could--I was anticipating that we were going to be at the hall in approximately 5 minutes from the time we turned on Elm Street.
We had just made the turn, well, when I heard what I thought was a shot. I heard this noise which I immediately took to be a rifle shot. I instinctively turned to my right because the sound appeared to come from over my right
shoulder, so I turned to look back over my right shoulder, and I saw nothing unusual except just people in the crowd, but I did not catch the President in the corner of my eye, and I was interested, because once I heard the shot in my own mind I identified it as a rifle shot, and I immediately--the only thought that crossed my mind was that this is an assassination attempt.
So I looked, failing to see him, I was turning to look back over my left shoulder into the back seat, but I never got that far in my turn. I got about in the position I am in now facing you, looking a little bit to the left of center, and then I felt like someone had hit me in the back.
...
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any reaction by President Kennedy after the shooting?
Governor CONNALLY. No; I did not see him.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any reaction by Mrs. Kennedy after the shooting?
Governor CONNALLY. I did not see her. This almost sounds incredible, I am sure, since we were in the car with them. But again I will repeat very briefly when what I believe to be the shot first occurred, I turned to my right, which was away from both of them, of course, and looked out and could see neither, and then as I was turning to look into the back seat where I would have seen both of them, I was hit, so I never completed the turn at all, and I never saw either one of them after the firing started, and, of course, as I have testified, then Mrs. Connally pulled me over into her lap and I was facing forward with my head slightly turned up to where I could see the driver and Roy Kellerman on his right, but I could not see into the back seat, so I didn't see either one of them.
== UNQUOTE ==
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/hscacon.htm
== QUOTE ==
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. Cornwell, we had just turned to Elm. We had gone, I suspect, oh, 150, 200 feet when I heard what I thought was a rifle shot and I thought it came from--I was seated right, as you know, the jump seat right in front of the President, and they have a fairly straight back on them so I was sitting up fairly erect. I thought the shot came from back over my right shoulder, so I turned to see if I could catch a sight of the President out of the corner of my eye because I immediately had, frankly, had fear of an assassination because I thought it was a rifle shot.
I didn't think it was a blowout or explosion of any kind. I didn't see the President out of the corner of my eye, so I was in the process of, at least I was turning to look over my left shoulder into the back seat to see if I could see him. I never looked, I never made the full turn. About the time I turned back where I was facing more or less straight ahead, the way the car was moving, I was hit. I was knocked over, just doubled over by the force of the bullet. It went in my back and came out my chest about 2 inches below and the left of my right nipple. The force of the bullet drove my body over almost double and when I looked, immediately I could see I was just drenched with blood. So, I knew I had been badly hit and I more or less straightened up. At about this time, Nelly reached over and pulled me down into her lap.
I was in her lap facing forward when another shot was fired. I only heard two shots. I did not hear the shot that hit me. I wasn't conscious of it. I am sure I heard it, but I was not conscious of it at all. I heard another shot. I heard it hit. It hit with a very pronounced impact, just [slap of hands] almost like that. Almost that loud a sound; it made a very, very strong sound.
Immediately, I could see blood and brain tissue all over the interior of the car and all over our clothes. We were both covered with brain tissue, and there were pieces of brain tissue as big as your little finger. It was something that was unmistakable. There was no question in my mind about what it was.
About this moment in time, Roy Kellerman, who was the Secret Service agent sitting in the right-front seat, pushed, apparently was pushing some buttons on the panel, doing what, I don't know. I heard him say, "Let's get out of here fast," and the car lurched forward then. Bill Greer was the driver. He accelerated it tremendously.
When I was hit, or shortly before I was hit--no, I guess it was after I was hit--I said first, just almost in despair, I said, "no, no, no, just thinking how tragic it was that we had gone through this 24 hours, it had all been so wonderful and so beautifully executed. The President had been so marvelously received and then here, at the last moment this great tragedy. I just said, "no, no, no, no".
Then I said right after I was hit, I said, "My God, they are going to kill us all." ....
The shots came, in my judgment, the two shots I heard came from the same direction, back over my right shoulder, came from behind us. Very clear to me where they came from. I don't think any shots came from any other direction. I was conscious until we hit the Stemmons Freeway and then I faded into unconsciousness.
I revived when the car came to a stop at what was Parkland Hospital. Apparently, the braking of the car--we must have been traveling at an enormous rate of speed--the braking of the car brought me back to consciousness and you know it is strange what thoughts run through your mind.
The first thought that occurred to me was that I was in the jump seat, that the right door of the car was opposite my seat and that they couldn't reach the President. Well, I got out of the way and that is when I tried to raise myself up out of Nelly's lap and actually tried to get out of the car myself, so that they could get to him in the back seat.
I knew he was hit. I knew their first concern would be for the President. So, that was the reason why I lurched up, or tried to get up out of a reclining position. Of course, I couldn't. I wasn't able to. I got halfway up and just slumped again, as Nelly just told you. Then, someone did pick me up and put me on a stretcher and took me into an emergency room or trauma room, whatever it was.
I obviously didn't know what it was. At that point, I felt the first pain, really, that I had experienced and when I was on the stretcher, I was laid out. Then, there was excruciating pain in my chest.
At the time I was hit, strangely enough, I felt no sharp pain. It was as if someone had come up behind me with a doubled up fist and just hit me in the back right between the shoulder blades. It was that kind of a sensation.
I would have to volunteer the very, very strong opinion, I know much has been written, much has been discussed, I was being a participant, I can only give you my impressions, but I must say you, as I said to the Warren Commission, I do not believe, nor will I ever believe, that I was hit with the first bullet. I don't believe that. I heard the first shot. I reacted to the first shot and I was not hit with that bullet: Now, there's a great deal of speculation that the President and I were hit with the same bullet that might well, be, but it surely wasn't the first bullet and Nelly doesn't think it's the second bullet. I don't know, I didn't hear the second bullet. I felt the second bullet. We obviously weren't hit by the third bullet. I was down reclining in her lap at the time the third bullet hit.
Mr. CORNWELL. I am sorry, I didn't understand one statement. You said Mrs. Connally doesn't agree it was the second bullet or the same bullet?
Mr. CONNALLY. The second bullet.
Mrs. CONNALLY. That what?
Mr. CONNALLY. That hit me. That hit him and me--
Mrs. CONNALLY. No; I heard three shots, I had three reactions, three separate reactions. The first shot, then I looked and saw the President, the second shot, John, and third, all this matter all over us.
Mr. CORNWELL. So you agree that your recollection is it was the second shot that hit the Governor?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I know it was the second shot that hit the Governor.
Mr. CORNWELL. And, where you disagree is as to the possibility or the question of whether or not it was the same bullet that hit, is that accurate, in other words, the Governor has no knowledge on that subject matter, would that be accurate, since you didn't turn around to see the President, after the first noise, you don't know whether he was hit and Mrs. Connally's recollection is that she did turn and saw him hold his throat before you were hit, is that accurate?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I did.
Mr. CONNALLY. That is correct. I never saw him. I never saw Mrs. Kennedy after the shots were fired. I never saw either one of them, and I don't know when he was hit.
== UNQUOTE ==
== QUOTE ==
https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKconnally.htm
Eddie Barker: Do you believe, Governor Connally, that the first bullet could have missed, the second one hit both of you, and the third one hit President Kennedy?
John Connally: That's possible. That's possible. Now, the best witness I know doesn't believe that.
Eddie Barker: Who is the best witness you know?
John Connally: Nellie was there, and she saw it. She believes the first bullet hit him, because she saw him after he was hit. She thinks the second bullet hit me, and the third bullet hit him.
== UNQUOTE ==
Nellie hasn't turned to look back at the President by 223. She turned after Z223, but recalled herself turning sooner. What she saw is what the Z-film shows after the President emerges from behind the sign.
Do you believe the Governor was struck at Z285?
It appears John Connally chose not to disagree with his wife. Who can
blame him?
I don't. She can be seen a bit later in the interview standing right
beside the bed. It wouldn't have been a good look for the Governor to get
into an argument with his wife during the interview about what transpired
in those brief seconds the car was under fire. I believe - as he clarified
at a later date to Eddie Barker - she was the source of his statement
about the President slumping. And I think it's important to note that in
the initial interview cited by "Rusty Sites" that the Governor never said
he *saw* the President had slumped. He said only "the President had
slumped" - which has always been Nellie's view and that observation is
therefore not the Governor's direct observation but only hearsay from
Nellie being repeated by the Governor.

Hank
John Corbett
2021-01-03 02:51:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by John Corbett
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Rusty Sites
Post by John Corbett
The FBI determine that Zapruder's camera ran at an average speed of 18.3
frames per second. Rounding out to four decimal places that comes to an
average of .0546 seconds per frame. However, each frame is not exposed for
that length of time. Movie film is simply a string of rapid fire still
photos which require a continuous series of starts and stops with the
frame being exposed during the stops with no exposure being made while the
film advances to expose the next frame. I think I read a long time ago
that each frame is exposed for 60% of the .0546 seconds follow by a gap
of 40% of the .0546 seconds. I can't find a reference to confirm if that
is true or whether this is just a faulty memory. Assuming it is true and
again rounding out to four decimal places, that means a frame is exposed
for .0328 seconds and advanced for .0219 seconds during which the camera
is not recording the action. Because the bullets would require only a
couple milliseconds to pass through the bodies of JFK and JBC, that means
that either of the shots which struck JFK could have hit him during the
exposure of a frame or during the gap between frames. The head shot could
have struck either during the exposure of frame 313 or in the gap between
312 and 313 with frame 313 showing us only the aftermath of the strike. It
is less definite as to when the single bullet struck and if it did strike
during the exposure of a frame, we don't know if it struck early during
the exposure, late or somewhere in the middle. This makes it a bit more
difficult to determine precisely when the shot was fired and when it
struck. We are left to analyze clues to determine the best fit for those
clues. The clues we have are the bulging of the JBC's jacket, and the
jiggle of Zapruder's camera at frame 227. The jiggle from head shot
occurred about 7 frames after the shot was fired. Since Zapruder was a
constant distance from the rifle, we could expect a similar amount of
frames between the shot being fired and the jiggle. That would indicate
the single bullet shot was likely fired during Z220 or the gap before or
after the exposure of that frame striking a couple frames later. The
bulging of JBC's jacket at Z224 happened after the bullet passed through
it. What we aren't sure of is how much of lag there was between the bullet
passing through and the jacket bulging. It seems to indicate a strike
about 223. The simultaneous reaction by JFK and JBC at 226 would have
occurred roughly 3-4 frames after the bullet passed through them. That
reaction could have begun in the 225-226 gap, late in the exposure of 226
or somewhere in between. What we are left with are three approximations
and it seems to me the best fit for all three of these approximations
would be the bullet strike either in the gap between 222-223 or early in
the 223 exposure.
Determining the precise instant of the single bullet strike is not
necessary for proving the validity of the SBT but it needs to be shown
that there is a plausible time frame for when that bullet struck. It think
the above analysis accomplishes that. In 1964 the WC gave us a range of
210-225 for when the single bullet could have struck. Given the advantage
of time and better technology, I think we can establish a much tighter
time frame for when that bullet struck.
I would be interested to see how others analyze these clues.
Here are some clues which I think are important for determining when
Connally was hit.
1) Everything Connally did after he came out from behind the sign was to
see JFK or see him better until he abruptly falls back about 285,
starts rolling his head back and forth, and doesn't try to see JFK
anymore. Perhaps you find some small event between 222 and 230 that you
think shows he is hit but after that you have 3-4 seconds where
Connally does not appear to be behaving as if he is hit and certainly
not like he has shattered ribs. How does that not strongly argue
against him being hit when you think he was? One of my guiding
principles is, once they're hit, they stay hit. Another clue is that,
in his hospital interview, Connally said he turned and saw JFK was
slumped before he was hit.
That's not true. He didn't say he saw the President was slumped. He said
"the President had slumped". In his testimony before both the Warren
Commission and the HSCA, he explained he never saw the President during
the shooting or thereafter. Nellie saw the President, and it was her
testimony the President appeared to be hit by the first shot. And that's
when the President slumped.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/conn_n.htm
== QUOTE ==
Mrs. CONNALLY. In fact the receptions had been. so good every place that I
had showed much restraint by not mentioning something about it before I
could resist no longer. When we got past this area I did turn to the
President and said, "Mr. President, you can't say Dallas doesn't love
you." Then I don't know how soon, it seems to me it was very soon, that I
heard a noise, and not being an expert rifleman, I was not aware that it
was a rifle. It was just a frightening noise, and it came from the right.
I turned over my right shoulder and looked back, and saw the President as
he had both hands at his neck.
Mr. SPECTER. And you are indicating with your own hands, two hands
crossing over gripping your own neck?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes; and it seemed to me there was--he made no utterance,
no cry. I saw no blood, no anything. It was just sort of nothing, the
expression on his face, and he just sort of slumped down.
Then very soon there was the second shot that hit John. As the first shot
was hit, and I turned to look at the same time, I recall John saying, "Oh,
no, no, no." Then there was a second shot, and it hit John, and as he
recoiled to the right, just crumpled like a wounded animal to the right,
he said, "My God, they are going to kill us all."
== UNQUOTE ==
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/conn_j.htm
== QUOTE ==
Governor CONNALLY. We had--we had gone, I guess, 150 feet, maybe 200 feet, I don't recall how far it was, heading down to get on the freeway, the Stemmons Freeway, to go out to the hall where we were going to have lunch and, as I say, the crowds had begun to thin, and we could--I was anticipating that we were going to be at the hall in approximately 5 minutes from the time we turned on Elm Street.
We had just made the turn, well, when I heard what I thought was a shot. I heard this noise which I immediately took to be a rifle shot. I instinctively turned to my right because the sound appeared to come from over my right
shoulder, so I turned to look back over my right shoulder, and I saw nothing unusual except just people in the crowd, but I did not catch the President in the corner of my eye, and I was interested, because once I heard the shot in my own mind I identified it as a rifle shot, and I immediately--the only thought that crossed my mind was that this is an assassination attempt.
So I looked, failing to see him, I was turning to look back over my left shoulder into the back seat, but I never got that far in my turn. I got about in the position I am in now facing you, looking a little bit to the left of center, and then I felt like someone had hit me in the back.
...
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any reaction by President Kennedy after the shooting?
Governor CONNALLY. No; I did not see him.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any reaction by Mrs. Kennedy after the shooting?
Governor CONNALLY. I did not see her. This almost sounds incredible, I am sure, since we were in the car with them. But again I will repeat very briefly when what I believe to be the shot first occurred, I turned to my right, which was away from both of them, of course, and looked out and could see neither, and then as I was turning to look into the back seat where I would have seen both of them, I was hit, so I never completed the turn at all, and I never saw either one of them after the firing started, and, of course, as I have testified, then Mrs. Connally pulled me over into her lap and I was facing forward with my head slightly turned up to where I could see the driver and Roy Kellerman on his right, but I could not see into the back seat, so I didn't see either one of them.
== UNQUOTE ==
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/hscacon.htm
== QUOTE ==
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. Cornwell, we had just turned to Elm. We had gone, I suspect, oh, 150, 200 feet when I heard what I thought was a rifle shot and I thought it came from--I was seated right, as you know, the jump seat right in front of the President, and they have a fairly straight back on them so I was sitting up fairly erect. I thought the shot came from back over my right shoulder, so I turned to see if I could catch a sight of the President out of the corner of my eye because I immediately had, frankly, had fear of an assassination because I thought it was a rifle shot.
I didn't think it was a blowout or explosion of any kind. I didn't see the President out of the corner of my eye, so I was in the process of, at least I was turning to look over my left shoulder into the back seat to see if I could see him. I never looked, I never made the full turn. About the time I turned back where I was facing more or less straight ahead, the way the car was moving, I was hit. I was knocked over, just doubled over by the force of the bullet. It went in my back and came out my chest about 2 inches below and the left of my right nipple. The force of the bullet drove my body over almost double and when I looked, immediately I could see I was just drenched with blood. So, I knew I had been badly hit and I more or less straightened up. At about this time, Nelly reached over and pulled me down into her lap.
I was in her lap facing forward when another shot was fired. I only heard two shots. I did not hear the shot that hit me. I wasn't conscious of it. I am sure I heard it, but I was not conscious of it at all. I heard another shot. I heard it hit. It hit with a very pronounced impact, just [slap of hands] almost like that. Almost that loud a sound; it made a very, very strong sound.
Immediately, I could see blood and brain tissue all over the interior of the car and all over our clothes. We were both covered with brain tissue, and there were pieces of brain tissue as big as your little finger. It was something that was unmistakable. There was no question in my mind about what it was.
About this moment in time, Roy Kellerman, who was the Secret Service agent sitting in the right-front seat, pushed, apparently was pushing some buttons on the panel, doing what, I don't know. I heard him say, "Let's get out of here fast," and the car lurched forward then. Bill Greer was the driver. He accelerated it tremendously.
When I was hit, or shortly before I was hit--no, I guess it was after I was hit--I said first, just almost in despair, I said, "no, no, no, just thinking how tragic it was that we had gone through this 24 hours, it had all been so wonderful and so beautifully executed. The President had been so marvelously received and then here, at the last moment this great tragedy. I just said, "no, no, no, no".
Then I said right after I was hit, I said, "My God, they are going to kill us all." ....
The shots came, in my judgment, the two shots I heard came from the same direction, back over my right shoulder, came from behind us. Very clear to me where they came from. I don't think any shots came from any other direction. I was conscious until we hit the Stemmons Freeway and then I faded into unconsciousness.
I revived when the car came to a stop at what was Parkland Hospital. Apparently, the braking of the car--we must have been traveling at an enormous rate of speed--the braking of the car brought me back to consciousness and you know it is strange what thoughts run through your mind.
The first thought that occurred to me was that I was in the jump seat, that the right door of the car was opposite my seat and that they couldn't reach the President. Well, I got out of the way and that is when I tried to raise myself up out of Nelly's lap and actually tried to get out of the car myself, so that they could get to him in the back seat.
I knew he was hit. I knew their first concern would be for the President. So, that was the reason why I lurched up, or tried to get up out of a reclining position. Of course, I couldn't. I wasn't able to. I got halfway up and just slumped again, as Nelly just told you. Then, someone did pick me up and put me on a stretcher and took me into an emergency room or trauma room, whatever it was.
I obviously didn't know what it was. At that point, I felt the first pain, really, that I had experienced and when I was on the stretcher, I was laid out. Then, there was excruciating pain in my chest.
At the time I was hit, strangely enough, I felt no sharp pain. It was as if someone had come up behind me with a doubled up fist and just hit me in the back right between the shoulder blades. It was that kind of a sensation.
I would have to volunteer the very, very strong opinion, I know much has been written, much has been discussed, I was being a participant, I can only give you my impressions, but I must say you, as I said to the Warren Commission, I do not believe, nor will I ever believe, that I was hit with the first bullet. I don't believe that. I heard the first shot. I reacted to the first shot and I was not hit with that bullet: Now, there's a great deal of speculation that the President and I were hit with the same bullet that might well, be, but it surely wasn't the first bullet and Nelly doesn't think it's the second bullet. I don't know, I didn't hear the second bullet. I felt the second bullet. We obviously weren't hit by the third bullet. I was down reclining in her lap at the time the third bullet hit.
Mr. CORNWELL. I am sorry, I didn't understand one statement. You said Mrs. Connally doesn't agree it was the second bullet or the same bullet?
Mr. CONNALLY. The second bullet.
Mrs. CONNALLY. That what?
Mr. CONNALLY. That hit me. That hit him and me--
Mrs. CONNALLY. No; I heard three shots, I had three reactions, three separate reactions. The first shot, then I looked and saw the President, the second shot, John, and third, all this matter all over us.
Mr. CORNWELL. So you agree that your recollection is it was the second shot that hit the Governor?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I know it was the second shot that hit the Governor.
Mr. CORNWELL. And, where you disagree is as to the possibility or the question of whether or not it was the same bullet that hit, is that accurate, in other words, the Governor has no knowledge on that subject matter, would that be accurate, since you didn't turn around to see the President, after the first noise, you don't know whether he was hit and Mrs. Connally's recollection is that she did turn and saw him hold his throat before you were hit, is that accurate?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I did.
Mr. CONNALLY. That is correct. I never saw him. I never saw Mrs. Kennedy after the shots were fired. I never saw either one of them, and I don't know when he was hit.
== UNQUOTE ==
== QUOTE ==
https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKconnally.htm
Eddie Barker: Do you believe, Governor Connally, that the first bullet could have missed, the second one hit both of you, and the third one hit President Kennedy?
John Connally: That's possible. That's possible. Now, the best witness I know doesn't believe that.
Eddie Barker: Who is the best witness you know?
John Connally: Nellie was there, and she saw it. She believes the first bullet hit him, because she saw him after he was hit. She thinks the second bullet hit me, and the third bullet hit him.
== UNQUOTE ==
Nellie hasn't turned to look back at the President by 223. She turned after Z223, but recalled herself turning sooner. What she saw is what the Z-film shows after the President emerges from behind the sign.
Do you believe the Governor was struck at Z285?
It appears John Connally chose not to disagree with his wife. Who can
blame him?
I don't. She can be seen a bit later in the interview standing right
beside the bed. It wouldn't have been a good look for the Governor to get
into an argument with his wife during the interview about what transpired
in those brief seconds the car was under fire. I believe - as he clarified
at a later date to Eddie Barker - she was the source of his statement
about the President slumping. And I think it's important to note that in
the initial interview cited by "Rusty Sites" that the Governor never said
he *saw* the President had slumped. He said only "the President had
slumped" - which has always been Nellie's view and that observation is
therefore not the Governor's direct observation but only hearsay from
Nellie being repeated by the Governor.
That's a good observation picking up on the nuance that JBC did not say he
saw the President had slumped. I had always assumed he had seen the
President slump but looking at it in that light, he clearly is not saying
that. I have no doubt that most of the shooting sequence was a blur in
JBC's mind and much of his recollections were influenced by what Nellie
told him she saw. She told him he had been hit by a different shot than
the one that hit JFK so he believed that to his dying day.
Anthony Marsh
2021-01-03 23:05:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Corbett
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by John Corbett
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Rusty Sites
Post by John Corbett
The FBI determine that Zapruder's camera ran at an average speed of 18.3
frames per second. Rounding out to four decimal places that comes to an
average of .0546 seconds per frame. However, each frame is not exposed for
that length of time. Movie film is simply a string of rapid fire still
photos which require a continuous series of starts and stops with the
frame being exposed during the stops with no exposure being made while the
film advances to expose the next frame. I think I read a long time ago
that each frame is exposed for 60% of the .0546 seconds follow by a gap
of 40% of the .0546 seconds. I can't find a reference to confirm if that
is true or whether this is just a faulty memory. Assuming it is true and
again rounding out to four decimal places, that means a frame is exposed
for .0328 seconds and advanced for .0219 seconds during which the camera
is not recording the action. Because the bullets would require only a
couple milliseconds to pass through the bodies of JFK and JBC, that means
that either of the shots which struck JFK could have hit him during the
exposure of a frame or during the gap between frames. The head shot could
have struck either during the exposure of frame 313 or in the gap between
312 and 313 with frame 313 showing us only the aftermath of the strike. It
is less definite as to when the single bullet struck and if it did strike
during the exposure of a frame, we don't know if it struck early during
the exposure, late or somewhere in the middle. This makes it a bit more
difficult to determine precisely when the shot was fired and when it
struck. We are left to analyze clues to determine the best fit for those
clues. The clues we have are the bulging of the JBC's jacket, and the
jiggle of Zapruder's camera at frame 227. The jiggle from head shot
occurred about 7 frames after the shot was fired. Since Zapruder was a
constant distance from the rifle, we could expect a similar amount of
frames between the shot being fired and the jiggle. That would indicate
the single bullet shot was likely fired during Z220 or the gap before or
after the exposure of that frame striking a couple frames later. The
bulging of JBC's jacket at Z224 happened after the bullet passed through
it. What we aren't sure of is how much of lag there was between the bullet
passing through and the jacket bulging. It seems to indicate a strike
about 223. The simultaneous reaction by JFK and JBC at 226 would have
occurred roughly 3-4 frames after the bullet passed through them. That
reaction could have begun in the 225-226 gap, late in the exposure of 226
or somewhere in between. What we are left with are three approximations
and it seems to me the best fit for all three of these approximations
would be the bullet strike either in the gap between 222-223 or early in
the 223 exposure.
Determining the precise instant of the single bullet strike is not
necessary for proving the validity of the SBT but it needs to be shown
that there is a plausible time frame for when that bullet struck. It think
the above analysis accomplishes that. In 1964 the WC gave us a range of
210-225 for when the single bullet could have struck. Given the advantage
of time and better technology, I think we can establish a much tighter
time frame for when that bullet struck.
I would be interested to see how others analyze these clues.
Here are some clues which I think are important for determining when
Connally was hit.
1) Everything Connally did after he came out from behind the sign was to
see JFK or see him better until he abruptly falls back about 285,
starts rolling his head back and forth, and doesn't try to see JFK
anymore. Perhaps you find some small event between 222 and 230 that you
think shows he is hit but after that you have 3-4 seconds where
Connally does not appear to be behaving as if he is hit and certainly
not like he has shattered ribs. How does that not strongly argue
against him being hit when you think he was? One of my guiding
principles is, once they're hit, they stay hit. Another clue is that,
in his hospital interview, Connally said he turned and saw JFK was
slumped before he was hit.
That's not true. He didn't say he saw the President was slumped. He said
"the President had slumped". In his testimony before both the Warren
Commission and the HSCA, he explained he never saw the President during
the shooting or thereafter. Nellie saw the President, and it was her
testimony the President appeared to be hit by the first shot. And that's
when the President slumped.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/conn_n.htm
== QUOTE ==
Mrs. CONNALLY. In fact the receptions had been. so good every place that I
had showed much restraint by not mentioning something about it before I
could resist no longer. When we got past this area I did turn to the
President and said, "Mr. President, you can't say Dallas doesn't love
you." Then I don't know how soon, it seems to me it was very soon, that I
heard a noise, and not being an expert rifleman, I was not aware that it
was a rifle. It was just a frightening noise, and it came from the right.
I turned over my right shoulder and looked back, and saw the President as
he had both hands at his neck.
Mr. SPECTER. And you are indicating with your own hands, two hands
crossing over gripping your own neck?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes; and it seemed to me there was--he made no utterance,
no cry. I saw no blood, no anything. It was just sort of nothing, the
expression on his face, and he just sort of slumped down.
Then very soon there was the second shot that hit John. As the first shot
was hit, and I turned to look at the same time, I recall John saying, "Oh,
no, no, no." Then there was a second shot, and it hit John, and as he
recoiled to the right, just crumpled like a wounded animal to the right,
he said, "My God, they are going to kill us all."
== UNQUOTE ==
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/conn_j.htm
== QUOTE ==
Governor CONNALLY. We had--we had gone, I guess, 150 feet, maybe 200 feet, I don't recall how far it was, heading down to get on the freeway, the Stemmons Freeway, to go out to the hall where we were going to have lunch and, as I say, the crowds had begun to thin, and we could--I was anticipating that we were going to be at the hall in approximately 5 minutes from the time we turned on Elm Street.
We had just made the turn, well, when I heard what I thought was a shot. I heard this noise which I immediately took to be a rifle shot. I instinctively turned to my right because the sound appeared to come from over my right
shoulder, so I turned to look back over my right shoulder, and I saw nothing unusual except just people in the crowd, but I did not catch the President in the corner of my eye, and I was interested, because once I heard the shot in my own mind I identified it as a rifle shot, and I immediately--the only thought that crossed my mind was that this is an assassination attempt.
So I looked, failing to see him, I was turning to look back over my left shoulder into the back seat, but I never got that far in my turn. I got about in the position I am in now facing you, looking a little bit to the left of center, and then I felt like someone had hit me in the back.
...
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any reaction by President Kennedy after the shooting?
Governor CONNALLY. No; I did not see him.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any reaction by Mrs. Kennedy after the shooting?
Governor CONNALLY. I did not see her. This almost sounds incredible, I am sure, since we were in the car with them. But again I will repeat very briefly when what I believe to be the shot first occurred, I turned to my right, which was away from both of them, of course, and looked out and could see neither, and then as I was turning to look into the back seat where I would have seen both of them, I was hit, so I never completed the turn at all, and I never saw either one of them after the firing started, and, of course, as I have testified, then Mrs. Connally pulled me over into her lap and I was facing forward with my head slightly turned up to where I could see the driver and Roy Kellerman on his right, but I could not see into the back seat, so I didn't see either one of them.
== UNQUOTE ==
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/hscacon.htm
== QUOTE ==
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. Cornwell, we had just turned to Elm. We had gone, I suspect, oh, 150, 200 feet when I heard what I thought was a rifle shot and I thought it came from--I was seated right, as you know, the jump seat right in front of the President, and they have a fairly straight back on them so I was sitting up fairly erect. I thought the shot came from back over my right shoulder, so I turned to see if I could catch a sight of the President out of the corner of my eye because I immediately had, frankly, had fear of an assassination because I thought it was a rifle shot.
I didn't think it was a blowout or explosion of any kind. I didn't see the President out of the corner of my eye, so I was in the process of, at least I was turning to look over my left shoulder into the back seat to see if I could see him. I never looked, I never made the full turn. About the time I turned back where I was facing more or less straight ahead, the way the car was moving, I was hit. I was knocked over, just doubled over by the force of the bullet. It went in my back and came out my chest about 2 inches below and the left of my right nipple. The force of the bullet drove my body over almost double and when I looked, immediately I could see I was just drenched with blood. So, I knew I had been badly hit and I more or less straightened up. At about this time, Nelly reached over and pulled me down into her lap.
I was in her lap facing forward when another shot was fired. I only heard two shots. I did not hear the shot that hit me. I wasn't conscious of it. I am sure I heard it, but I was not conscious of it at all. I heard another shot. I heard it hit. It hit with a very pronounced impact, just [slap of hands] almost like that. Almost that loud a sound; it made a very, very strong sound.
Immediately, I could see blood and brain tissue all over the interior of the car and all over our clothes. We were both covered with brain tissue, and there were pieces of brain tissue as big as your little finger. It was something that was unmistakable. There was no question in my mind about what it was.
About this moment in time, Roy Kellerman, who was the Secret Service agent sitting in the right-front seat, pushed, apparently was pushing some buttons on the panel, doing what, I don't know. I heard him say, "Let's get out of here fast," and the car lurched forward then. Bill Greer was the driver. He accelerated it tremendously.
When I was hit, or shortly before I was hit--no, I guess it was after I was hit--I said first, just almost in despair, I said, "no, no, no, just thinking how tragic it was that we had gone through this 24 hours, it had all been so wonderful and so beautifully executed. The President had been so marvelously received and then here, at the last moment this great tragedy. I just said, "no, no, no, no".
Then I said right after I was hit, I said, "My God, they are going to kill us all." ....
The shots came, in my judgment, the two shots I heard came from the same direction, back over my right shoulder, came from behind us. Very clear to me where they came from. I don't think any shots came from any other direction. I was conscious until we hit the Stemmons Freeway and then I faded into unconsciousness.
I revived when the car came to a stop at what was Parkland Hospital. Apparently, the braking of the car--we must have been traveling at an enormous rate of speed--the braking of the car brought me back to consciousness and you know it is strange what thoughts run through your mind.
The first thought that occurred to me was that I was in the jump seat, that the right door of the car was opposite my seat and that they couldn't reach the President. Well, I got out of the way and that is when I tried to raise myself up out of Nelly's lap and actually tried to get out of the car myself, so that they could get to him in the back seat.
I knew he was hit. I knew their first concern would be for the President. So, that was the reason why I lurched up, or tried to get up out of a reclining position. Of course, I couldn't. I wasn't able to. I got halfway up and just slumped again, as Nelly just told you. Then, someone did pick me up and put me on a stretcher and took me into an emergency room or trauma room, whatever it was.
I obviously didn't know what it was. At that point, I felt the first pain, really, that I had experienced and when I was on the stretcher, I was laid out. Then, there was excruciating pain in my chest.
At the time I was hit, strangely enough, I felt no sharp pain. It was as if someone had come up behind me with a doubled up fist and just hit me in the back right between the shoulder blades. It was that kind of a sensation.
I would have to volunteer the very, very strong opinion, I know much has been written, much has been discussed, I was being a participant, I can only give you my impressions, but I must say you, as I said to the Warren Commission, I do not believe, nor will I ever believe, that I was hit with the first bullet. I don't believe that. I heard the first shot. I reacted to the first shot and I was not hit with that bullet: Now, there's a great deal of speculation that the President and I were hit with the same bullet that might well, be, but it surely wasn't the first bullet and Nelly doesn't think it's the second bullet. I don't know, I didn't hear the second bullet. I felt the second bullet. We obviously weren't hit by the third bullet. I was down reclining in her lap at the time the third bullet hit.
Mr. CORNWELL. I am sorry, I didn't understand one statement. You said Mrs. Connally doesn't agree it was the second bullet or the same bullet?
Mr. CONNALLY. The second bullet.
Mrs. CONNALLY. That what?
Mr. CONNALLY. That hit me. That hit him and me--
Mrs. CONNALLY. No; I heard three shots, I had three reactions, three separate reactions. The first shot, then I looked and saw the President, the second shot, John, and third, all this matter all over us.
Mr. CORNWELL. So you agree that your recollection is it was the second shot that hit the Governor?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I know it was the second shot that hit the Governor.
Mr. CORNWELL. And, where you disagree is as to the possibility or the question of whether or not it was the same bullet that hit, is that accurate, in other words, the Governor has no knowledge on that subject matter, would that be accurate, since you didn't turn around to see the President, after the first noise, you don't know whether he was hit and Mrs. Connally's recollection is that she did turn and saw him hold his throat before you were hit, is that accurate?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I did.
Mr. CONNALLY. That is correct. I never saw him. I never saw Mrs. Kennedy after the shots were fired. I never saw either one of them, and I don't know when he was hit.
== UNQUOTE ==
== QUOTE ==
https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKconnally.htm
Eddie Barker: Do you believe, Governor Connally, that the first bullet could have missed, the second one hit both of you, and the third one hit President Kennedy?
John Connally: That's possible. That's possible. Now, the best witness I know doesn't believe that.
Eddie Barker: Who is the best witness you know?
John Connally: Nellie was there, and she saw it. She believes the first bullet hit him, because she saw him after he was hit. She thinks the second bullet hit me, and the third bullet hit him.
== UNQUOTE ==
Nellie hasn't turned to look back at the President by 223. She turned after Z223, but recalled herself turning sooner. What she saw is what the Z-film shows after the President emerges from behind the sign.
Do you believe the Governor was struck at Z285?
It appears John Connally chose not to disagree with his wife. Who can
blame him?
I don't. She can be seen a bit later in the interview standing right
beside the bed. It wouldn't have been a good look for the Governor to get
into an argument with his wife during the interview about what transpired
in those brief seconds the car was under fire. I believe - as he clarified
at a later date to Eddie Barker - she was the source of his statement
about the President slumping. And I think it's important to note that in
the initial interview cited by "Rusty Sites" that the Governor never said
he *saw* the President had slumped. He said only "the President had
slumped" - which has always been Nellie's view and that observation is
therefore not the Governor's direct observation but only hearsay from
Nellie being repeated by the Governor.
That's a good observation picking up on the nuance that JBC did not say he
saw the President had slumped. I had always assumed he had seen the
President slump but looking at it in that light, he clearly is not saying
Stop twisting words.
Connally did not say that he SAW JFK slump.
He said that he saw that JFK HAD slumped:

http://the-puzzle-palace.com/Connally.htm
Post by John Corbett
that. I have no doubt that most of the shooting sequence was a blur in
JBC's mind and much of his recollections were influenced by what Nellie
told him she saw. She told him he had been hit by a different shot than
the one that hit JFK so he believed that to his dying day.
John Corbett
2021-01-04 16:27:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John Corbett
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by John Corbett
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Rusty Sites
Post by John Corbett
The FBI determine that Zapruder's camera ran at an average speed of 18.3
frames per second. Rounding out to four decimal places that comes to an
average of .0546 seconds per frame. However, each frame is not exposed for
that length of time. Movie film is simply a string of rapid fire still
photos which require a continuous series of starts and stops with the
frame being exposed during the stops with no exposure being made while the
film advances to expose the next frame. I think I read a long time ago
that each frame is exposed for 60% of the .0546 seconds follow by a gap
of 40% of the .0546 seconds. I can't find a reference to confirm if that
is true or whether this is just a faulty memory. Assuming it is true and
again rounding out to four decimal places, that means a frame is exposed
for .0328 seconds and advanced for .0219 seconds during which the camera
is not recording the action. Because the bullets would require only a
couple milliseconds to pass through the bodies of JFK and JBC, that means
that either of the shots which struck JFK could have hit him during the
exposure of a frame or during the gap between frames. The head shot could
have struck either during the exposure of frame 313 or in the gap between
312 and 313 with frame 313 showing us only the aftermath of the strike. It
is less definite as to when the single bullet struck and if it did strike
during the exposure of a frame, we don't know if it struck early during
the exposure, late or somewhere in the middle. This makes it a bit more
difficult to determine precisely when the shot was fired and when it
struck. We are left to analyze clues to determine the best fit for those
clues. The clues we have are the bulging of the JBC's jacket, and the
jiggle of Zapruder's camera at frame 227. The jiggle from head shot
occurred about 7 frames after the shot was fired. Since Zapruder was a
constant distance from the rifle, we could expect a similar amount of
frames between the shot being fired and the jiggle. That would indicate
the single bullet shot was likely fired during Z220 or the gap before or
after the exposure of that frame striking a couple frames later. The
bulging of JBC's jacket at Z224 happened after the bullet passed through
it. What we aren't sure of is how much of lag there was between the bullet
passing through and the jacket bulging. It seems to indicate a strike
about 223. The simultaneous reaction by JFK and JBC at 226 would have
occurred roughly 3-4 frames after the bullet passed through them. That
reaction could have begun in the 225-226 gap, late in the exposure of 226
or somewhere in between. What we are left with are three approximations
and it seems to me the best fit for all three of these approximations
would be the bullet strike either in the gap between 222-223 or early in
the 223 exposure.
Determining the precise instant of the single bullet strike is not
necessary for proving the validity of the SBT but it needs to be shown
that there is a plausible time frame for when that bullet struck. It think
the above analysis accomplishes that. In 1964 the WC gave us a range of
210-225 for when the single bullet could have struck. Given the advantage
of time and better technology, I think we can establish a much tighter
time frame for when that bullet struck.
I would be interested to see how others analyze these clues.
Here are some clues which I think are important for determining when
Connally was hit.
1) Everything Connally did after he came out from behind the sign was to
see JFK or see him better until he abruptly falls back about 285,
starts rolling his head back and forth, and doesn't try to see JFK
anymore. Perhaps you find some small event between 222 and 230 that you
think shows he is hit but after that you have 3-4 seconds where
Connally does not appear to be behaving as if he is hit and certainly
not like he has shattered ribs. How does that not strongly argue
against him being hit when you think he was? One of my guiding
principles is, once they're hit, they stay hit. Another clue is that,
in his hospital interview, Connally said he turned and saw JFK was
slumped before he was hit.
That's not true. He didn't say he saw the President was slumped. He said
"the President had slumped". In his testimony before both the Warren
Commission and the HSCA, he explained he never saw the President during
the shooting or thereafter. Nellie saw the President, and it was her
testimony the President appeared to be hit by the first shot. And that's
when the President slumped.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/conn_n.htm
== QUOTE ==
Mrs. CONNALLY. In fact the receptions had been. so good every place that I
had showed much restraint by not mentioning something about it before I
could resist no longer. When we got past this area I did turn to the
President and said, "Mr. President, you can't say Dallas doesn't love
you." Then I don't know how soon, it seems to me it was very soon, that I
heard a noise, and not being an expert rifleman, I was not aware that it
was a rifle. It was just a frightening noise, and it came from the right.
I turned over my right shoulder and looked back, and saw the President as
he had both hands at his neck.
Mr. SPECTER. And you are indicating with your own hands, two hands
crossing over gripping your own neck?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes; and it seemed to me there was--he made no utterance,
no cry. I saw no blood, no anything. It was just sort of nothing, the
expression on his face, and he just sort of slumped down.
Then very soon there was the second shot that hit John. As the first shot
was hit, and I turned to look at the same time, I recall John saying, "Oh,
no, no, no." Then there was a second shot, and it hit John, and as he
recoiled to the right, just crumpled like a wounded animal to the right,
he said, "My God, they are going to kill us all."
== UNQUOTE ==
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/conn_j.htm
== QUOTE ==
Governor CONNALLY. We had--we had gone, I guess, 150 feet, maybe 200 feet, I don't recall how far it was, heading down to get on the freeway, the Stemmons Freeway, to go out to the hall where we were going to have lunch and, as I say, the crowds had begun to thin, and we could--I was anticipating that we were going to be at the hall in approximately 5 minutes from the time we turned on Elm Street.
We had just made the turn, well, when I heard what I thought was a shot. I heard this noise which I immediately took to be a rifle shot. I instinctively turned to my right because the sound appeared to come from over my right
shoulder, so I turned to look back over my right shoulder, and I saw nothing unusual except just people in the crowd, but I did not catch the President in the corner of my eye, and I was interested, because once I heard the shot in my own mind I identified it as a rifle shot, and I immediately--the only thought that crossed my mind was that this is an assassination attempt.
So I looked, failing to see him, I was turning to look back over my left shoulder into the back seat, but I never got that far in my turn. I got about in the position I am in now facing you, looking a little bit to the left of center, and then I felt like someone had hit me in the back.
...
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any reaction by President Kennedy after the shooting?
Governor CONNALLY. No; I did not see him.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any reaction by Mrs. Kennedy after the shooting?
Governor CONNALLY. I did not see her. This almost sounds incredible, I am sure, since we were in the car with them. But again I will repeat very briefly when what I believe to be the shot first occurred, I turned to my right, which was away from both of them, of course, and looked out and could see neither, and then as I was turning to look into the back seat where I would have seen both of them, I was hit, so I never completed the turn at all, and I never saw either one of them after the firing started, and, of course, as I have testified, then Mrs. Connally pulled me over into her lap and I was facing forward with my head slightly turned up to where I could see the driver and Roy Kellerman on his right, but I could not see into the back seat, so I didn't see either one of them.
== UNQUOTE ==
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/hscacon.htm
== QUOTE ==
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. Cornwell, we had just turned to Elm. We had gone, I suspect, oh, 150, 200 feet when I heard what I thought was a rifle shot and I thought it came from--I was seated right, as you know, the jump seat right in front of the President, and they have a fairly straight back on them so I was sitting up fairly erect. I thought the shot came from back over my right shoulder, so I turned to see if I could catch a sight of the President out of the corner of my eye because I immediately had, frankly, had fear of an assassination because I thought it was a rifle shot.
I didn't think it was a blowout or explosion of any kind. I didn't see the President out of the corner of my eye, so I was in the process of, at least I was turning to look over my left shoulder into the back seat to see if I could see him. I never looked, I never made the full turn. About the time I turned back where I was facing more or less straight ahead, the way the car was moving, I was hit. I was knocked over, just doubled over by the force of the bullet. It went in my back and came out my chest about 2 inches below and the left of my right nipple. The force of the bullet drove my body over almost double and when I looked, immediately I could see I was just drenched with blood. So, I knew I had been badly hit and I more or less straightened up. At about this time, Nelly reached over and pulled me down into her lap.
I was in her lap facing forward when another shot was fired. I only heard two shots. I did not hear the shot that hit me. I wasn't conscious of it. I am sure I heard it, but I was not conscious of it at all. I heard another shot. I heard it hit. It hit with a very pronounced impact, just [slap of hands] almost like that. Almost that loud a sound; it made a very, very strong sound.
Immediately, I could see blood and brain tissue all over the interior of the car and all over our clothes. We were both covered with brain tissue, and there were pieces of brain tissue as big as your little finger. It was something that was unmistakable. There was no question in my mind about what it was.
About this moment in time, Roy Kellerman, who was the Secret Service agent sitting in the right-front seat, pushed, apparently was pushing some buttons on the panel, doing what, I don't know. I heard him say, "Let's get out of here fast," and the car lurched forward then. Bill Greer was the driver. He accelerated it tremendously.
When I was hit, or shortly before I was hit--no, I guess it was after I was hit--I said first, just almost in despair, I said, "no, no, no, just thinking how tragic it was that we had gone through this 24 hours, it had all been so wonderful and so beautifully executed. The President had been so marvelously received and then here, at the last moment this great tragedy. I just said, "no, no, no, no".
Then I said right after I was hit, I said, "My God, they are going to kill us all." ....
The shots came, in my judgment, the two shots I heard came from the same direction, back over my right shoulder, came from behind us. Very clear to me where they came from. I don't think any shots came from any other direction. I was conscious until we hit the Stemmons Freeway and then I faded into unconsciousness.
I revived when the car came to a stop at what was Parkland Hospital. Apparently, the braking of the car--we must have been traveling at an enormous rate of speed--the braking of the car brought me back to consciousness and you know it is strange what thoughts run through your mind.
The first thought that occurred to me was that I was in the jump seat, that the right door of the car was opposite my seat and that they couldn't reach the President. Well, I got out of the way and that is when I tried to raise myself up out of Nelly's lap and actually tried to get out of the car myself, so that they could get to him in the back seat.
I knew he was hit. I knew their first concern would be for the President. So, that was the reason why I lurched up, or tried to get up out of a reclining position. Of course, I couldn't. I wasn't able to. I got halfway up and just slumped again, as Nelly just told you. Then, someone did pick me up and put me on a stretcher and took me into an emergency room or trauma room, whatever it was.
I obviously didn't know what it was. At that point, I felt the first pain, really, that I had experienced and when I was on the stretcher, I was laid out. Then, there was excruciating pain in my chest.
At the time I was hit, strangely enough, I felt no sharp pain. It was as if someone had come up behind me with a doubled up fist and just hit me in the back right between the shoulder blades. It was that kind of a sensation.
I would have to volunteer the very, very strong opinion, I know much has been written, much has been discussed, I was being a participant, I can only give you my impressions, but I must say you, as I said to the Warren Commission, I do not believe, nor will I ever believe, that I was hit with the first bullet. I don't believe that. I heard the first shot. I reacted to the first shot and I was not hit with that bullet: Now, there's a great deal of speculation that the President and I were hit with the same bullet that might well, be, but it surely wasn't the first bullet and Nelly doesn't think it's the second bullet. I don't know, I didn't hear the second bullet. I felt the second bullet. We obviously weren't hit by the third bullet. I was down reclining in her lap at the time the third bullet hit.
Mr. CORNWELL. I am sorry, I didn't understand one statement. You said Mrs. Connally doesn't agree it was the second bullet or the same bullet?
Mr. CONNALLY. The second bullet.
Mrs. CONNALLY. That what?
Mr. CONNALLY. That hit me. That hit him and me--
Mrs. CONNALLY. No; I heard three shots, I had three reactions, three separate reactions. The first shot, then I looked and saw the President, the second shot, John, and third, all this matter all over us.
Mr. CORNWELL. So you agree that your recollection is it was the second shot that hit the Governor?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I know it was the second shot that hit the Governor.
Mr. CORNWELL. And, where you disagree is as to the possibility or the question of whether or not it was the same bullet that hit, is that accurate, in other words, the Governor has no knowledge on that subject matter, would that be accurate, since you didn't turn around to see the President, after the first noise, you don't know whether he was hit and Mrs. Connally's recollection is that she did turn and saw him hold his throat before you were hit, is that accurate?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I did.
Mr. CONNALLY. That is correct. I never saw him. I never saw Mrs. Kennedy after the shots were fired. I never saw either one of them, and I don't know when he was hit.
== UNQUOTE ==
== QUOTE ==
https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKconnally.htm
Eddie Barker: Do you believe, Governor Connally, that the first bullet could have missed, the second one hit both of you, and the third one hit President Kennedy?
John Connally: That's possible. That's possible. Now, the best witness I know doesn't believe that.
Eddie Barker: Who is the best witness you know?
John Connally: Nellie was there, and she saw it. She believes the first bullet hit him, because she saw him after he was hit. She thinks the second bullet hit me, and the third bullet hit him.
== UNQUOTE ==
Nellie hasn't turned to look back at the President by 223. She turned after Z223, but recalled herself turning sooner. What she saw is what the Z-film shows after the President emerges from behind the sign.
Do you believe the Governor was struck at Z285?
It appears John Connally chose not to disagree with his wife. Who can
blame him?
I don't. She can be seen a bit later in the interview standing right
beside the bed. It wouldn't have been a good look for the Governor to get
into an argument with his wife during the interview about what transpired
in those brief seconds the car was under fire. I believe - as he clarified
at a later date to Eddie Barker - she was the source of his statement
about the President slumping. And I think it's important to note that in
the initial interview cited by "Rusty Sites" that the Governor never said
he *saw* the President had slumped. He said only "the President had
slumped" - which has always been Nellie's view and that observation is
therefore not the Governor's direct observation but only hearsay from
Nellie being repeated by the Governor.
That's a good observation picking up on the nuance that JBC did not say he
saw the President had slumped. I had always assumed he had seen the
President slump but looking at it in that light, he clearly is not saying
Stop twisting words.
Connally did not say that he SAW JFK slump.
http://the-puzzle-palace.com/Connally.htm
He didn't say either one of those things. As Hank astutely pointed out, he
never used the word "saw".
Anthony Marsh
2021-01-05 01:03:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Corbett
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John Corbett
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by John Corbett
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Rusty Sites
Post by John Corbett
The FBI determine that Zapruder's camera ran at an average speed of 18.3
frames per second. Rounding out to four decimal places that comes to an
average of .0546 seconds per frame. However, each frame is not exposed for
that length of time. Movie film is simply a string of rapid fire still
photos which require a continuous series of starts and stops with the
frame being exposed during the stops with no exposure being made while the
film advances to expose the next frame. I think I read a long time ago
that each frame is exposed for 60% of the .0546 seconds follow by a gap
of 40% of the .0546 seconds. I can't find a reference to confirm if that
is true or whether this is just a faulty memory. Assuming it is true and
again rounding out to four decimal places, that means a frame is exposed
for .0328 seconds and advanced for .0219 seconds during which the camera
is not recording the action. Because the bullets would require only a
couple milliseconds to pass through the bodies of JFK and JBC, that means
that either of the shots which struck JFK could have hit him during the
exposure of a frame or during the gap between frames. The head shot could
have struck either during the exposure of frame 313 or in the gap between
312 and 313 with frame 313 showing us only the aftermath of the strike. It
is less definite as to when the single bullet struck and if it did strike
during the exposure of a frame, we don't know if it struck early during
the exposure, late or somewhere in the middle. This makes it a bit more
difficult to determine precisely when the shot was fired and when it
struck. We are left to analyze clues to determine the best fit for those
clues. The clues we have are the bulging of the JBC's jacket, and the
jiggle of Zapruder's camera at frame 227. The jiggle from head shot
occurred about 7 frames after the shot was fired. Since Zapruder was a
constant distance from the rifle, we could expect a similar amount of
frames between the shot being fired and the jiggle. That would indicate
the single bullet shot was likely fired during Z220 or the gap before or
after the exposure of that frame striking a couple frames later. The
bulging of JBC's jacket at Z224 happened after the bullet passed through
it. What we aren't sure of is how much of lag there was between the bullet
passing through and the jacket bulging. It seems to indicate a strike
about 223. The simultaneous reaction by JFK and JBC at 226 would have
occurred roughly 3-4 frames after the bullet passed through them. That
reaction could have begun in the 225-226 gap, late in the exposure of 226
or somewhere in between. What we are left with are three approximations
and it seems to me the best fit for all three of these approximations
would be the bullet strike either in the gap between 222-223 or early in
the 223 exposure.
Determining the precise instant of the single bullet strike is not
necessary for proving the validity of the SBT but it needs to be shown
that there is a plausible time frame for when that bullet struck. It think
the above analysis accomplishes that. In 1964 the WC gave us a range of
210-225 for when the single bullet could have struck. Given the advantage
of time and better technology, I think we can establish a much tighter
time frame for when that bullet struck.
I would be interested to see how others analyze these clues.
Here are some clues which I think are important for determining when
Connally was hit.
1) Everything Connally did after he came out from behind the sign was to
see JFK or see him better until he abruptly falls back about 285,
starts rolling his head back and forth, and doesn't try to see JFK
anymore. Perhaps you find some small event between 222 and 230 that you
think shows he is hit but after that you have 3-4 seconds where
Connally does not appear to be behaving as if he is hit and certainly
not like he has shattered ribs. How does that not strongly argue
against him being hit when you think he was? One of my guiding
principles is, once they're hit, they stay hit. Another clue is that,
in his hospital interview, Connally said he turned and saw JFK was
slumped before he was hit.
That's not true. He didn't say he saw the President was slumped. He said
"the President had slumped". In his testimony before both the Warren
Commission and the HSCA, he explained he never saw the President during
the shooting or thereafter. Nellie saw the President, and it was her
testimony the President appeared to be hit by the first shot. And that's
when the President slumped.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/conn_n.htm
== QUOTE ==
Mrs. CONNALLY. In fact the receptions had been. so good every place that I
had showed much restraint by not mentioning something about it before I
could resist no longer. When we got past this area I did turn to the
President and said, "Mr. President, you can't say Dallas doesn't love
you." Then I don't know how soon, it seems to me it was very soon, that I
heard a noise, and not being an expert rifleman, I was not aware that it
was a rifle. It was just a frightening noise, and it came from the right.
I turned over my right shoulder and looked back, and saw the President as
he had both hands at his neck.
Mr. SPECTER. And you are indicating with your own hands, two hands
crossing over gripping your own neck?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes; and it seemed to me there was--he made no utterance,
no cry. I saw no blood, no anything. It was just sort of nothing, the
expression on his face, and he just sort of slumped down.
Then very soon there was the second shot that hit John. As the first shot
was hit, and I turned to look at the same time, I recall John saying, "Oh,
no, no, no." Then there was a second shot, and it hit John, and as he
recoiled to the right, just crumpled like a wounded animal to the right,
he said, "My God, they are going to kill us all."
== UNQUOTE ==
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/conn_j.htm
== QUOTE ==
Governor CONNALLY. We had--we had gone, I guess, 150 feet, maybe 200 feet, I don't recall how far it was, heading down to get on the freeway, the Stemmons Freeway, to go out to the hall where we were going to have lunch and, as I say, the crowds had begun to thin, and we could--I was anticipating that we were going to be at the hall in approximately 5 minutes from the time we turned on Elm Street.
We had just made the turn, well, when I heard what I thought was a shot. I heard this noise which I immediately took to be a rifle shot. I instinctively turned to my right because the sound appeared to come from over my right
shoulder, so I turned to look back over my right shoulder, and I saw nothing unusual except just people in the crowd, but I did not catch the President in the corner of my eye, and I was interested, because once I heard the shot in my own mind I identified it as a rifle shot, and I immediately--the only thought that crossed my mind was that this is an assassination attempt.
So I looked, failing to see him, I was turning to look back over my left shoulder into the back seat, but I never got that far in my turn. I got about in the position I am in now facing you, looking a little bit to the left of center, and then I felt like someone had hit me in the back.
...
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any reaction by President Kennedy after the shooting?
Governor CONNALLY. No; I did not see him.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any reaction by Mrs. Kennedy after the shooting?
Governor CONNALLY. I did not see her. This almost sounds incredible, I am sure, since we were in the car with them. But again I will repeat very briefly when what I believe to be the shot first occurred, I turned to my right, which was away from both of them, of course, and looked out and could see neither, and then as I was turning to look into the back seat where I would have seen both of them, I was hit, so I never completed the turn at all, and I never saw either one of them after the firing started, and, of course, as I have testified, then Mrs. Connally pulled me over into her lap and I was facing forward with my head slightly turned up to where I could see the driver and Roy Kellerman on his right, but I could not see into the back seat, so I didn't see either one of them.
== UNQUOTE ==
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/hscacon.htm
== QUOTE ==
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. Cornwell, we had just turned to Elm. We had gone, I suspect, oh, 150, 200 feet when I heard what I thought was a rifle shot and I thought it came from--I was seated right, as you know, the jump seat right in front of the President, and they have a fairly straight back on them so I was sitting up fairly erect. I thought the shot came from back over my right shoulder, so I turned to see if I could catch a sight of the President out of the corner of my eye because I immediately had, frankly, had fear of an assassination because I thought it was a rifle shot.
I didn't think it was a blowout or explosion of any kind. I didn't see the President out of the corner of my eye, so I was in the process of, at least I was turning to look over my left shoulder into the back seat to see if I could see him. I never looked, I never made the full turn. About the time I turned back where I was facing more or less straight ahead, the way the car was moving, I was hit. I was knocked over, just doubled over by the force of the bullet. It went in my back and came out my chest about 2 inches below and the left of my right nipple. The force of the bullet drove my body over almost double and when I looked, immediately I could see I was just drenched with blood. So, I knew I had been badly hit and I more or less straightened up. At about this time, Nelly reached over and pulled me down into her lap.
I was in her lap facing forward when another shot was fired. I only heard two shots. I did not hear the shot that hit me. I wasn't conscious of it. I am sure I heard it, but I was not conscious of it at all. I heard another shot. I heard it hit. It hit with a very pronounced impact, just [slap of hands] almost like that. Almost that loud a sound; it made a very, very strong sound.
Immediately, I could see blood and brain tissue all over the interior of the car and all over our clothes. We were both covered with brain tissue, and there were pieces of brain tissue as big as your little finger. It was something that was unmistakable. There was no question in my mind about what it was.
About this moment in time, Roy Kellerman, who was the Secret Service agent sitting in the right-front seat, pushed, apparently was pushing some buttons on the panel, doing what, I don't know. I heard him say, "Let's get out of here fast," and the car lurched forward then. Bill Greer was the driver. He accelerated it tremendously.
When I was hit, or shortly before I was hit--no, I guess it was after I was hit--I said first, just almost in despair, I said, "no, no, no, just thinking how tragic it was that we had gone through this 24 hours, it had all been so wonderful and so beautifully executed. The President had been so marvelously received and then here, at the last moment this great tragedy. I just said, "no, no, no, no".
Then I said right after I was hit, I said, "My God, they are going to kill us all." ....
The shots came, in my judgment, the two shots I heard came from the same direction, back over my right shoulder, came from behind us. Very clear to me where they came from. I don't think any shots came from any other direction. I was conscious until we hit the Stemmons Freeway and then I faded into unconsciousness.
I revived when the car came to a stop at what was Parkland Hospital. Apparently, the braking of the car--we must have been traveling at an enormous rate of speed--the braking of the car brought me back to consciousness and you know it is strange what thoughts run through your mind.
The first thought that occurred to me was that I was in the jump seat, that the right door of the car was opposite my seat and that they couldn't reach the President. Well, I got out of the way and that is when I tried to raise myself up out of Nelly's lap and actually tried to get out of the car myself, so that they could get to him in the back seat.
I knew he was hit. I knew their first concern would be for the President. So, that was the reason why I lurched up, or tried to get up out of a reclining position. Of course, I couldn't. I wasn't able to. I got halfway up and just slumped again, as Nelly just told you. Then, someone did pick me up and put me on a stretcher and took me into an emergency room or trauma room, whatever it was.
I obviously didn't know what it was. At that point, I felt the first pain, really, that I had experienced and when I was on the stretcher, I was laid out. Then, there was excruciating pain in my chest.
At the time I was hit, strangely enough, I felt no sharp pain. It was as if someone had come up behind me with a doubled up fist and just hit me in the back right between the shoulder blades. It was that kind of a sensation.
I would have to volunteer the very, very strong opinion, I know much has been written, much has been discussed, I was being a participant, I can only give you my impressions, but I must say you, as I said to the Warren Commission, I do not believe, nor will I ever believe, that I was hit with the first bullet. I don't believe that. I heard the first shot. I reacted to the first shot and I was not hit with that bullet: Now, there's a great deal of speculation that the President and I were hit with the same bullet that might well, be, but it surely wasn't the first bullet and Nelly doesn't think it's the second bullet. I don't know, I didn't hear the second bullet. I felt the second bullet. We obviously weren't hit by the third bullet. I was down reclining in her lap at the time the third bullet hit.
Mr. CORNWELL. I am sorry, I didn't understand one statement. You said Mrs. Connally doesn't agree it was the second bullet or the same bullet?
Mr. CONNALLY. The second bullet.
Mrs. CONNALLY. That what?
Mr. CONNALLY. That hit me. That hit him and me--
Mrs. CONNALLY. No; I heard three shots, I had three reactions, three separate reactions. The first shot, then I looked and saw the President, the second shot, John, and third, all this matter all over us.
Mr. CORNWELL. So you agree that your recollection is it was the second shot that hit the Governor?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I know it was the second shot that hit the Governor.
Mr. CORNWELL. And, where you disagree is as to the possibility or the question of whether or not it was the same bullet that hit, is that accurate, in other words, the Governor has no knowledge on that subject matter, would that be accurate, since you didn't turn around to see the President, after the first noise, you don't know whether he was hit and Mrs. Connally's recollection is that she did turn and saw him hold his throat before you were hit, is that accurate?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I did.
Mr. CONNALLY. That is correct. I never saw him. I never saw Mrs. Kennedy after the shots were fired. I never saw either one of them, and I don't know when he was hit.
== UNQUOTE ==
== QUOTE ==
https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKconnally.htm
Eddie Barker: Do you believe, Governor Connally, that the first bullet could have missed, the second one hit both of you, and the third one hit President Kennedy?
John Connally: That's possible. That's possible. Now, the best witness I know doesn't believe that.
Eddie Barker: Who is the best witness you know?
John Connally: Nellie was there, and she saw it. She believes the first bullet hit him, because she saw him after he was hit. She thinks the second bullet hit me, and the third bullet hit him.
== UNQUOTE ==
Nellie hasn't turned to look back at the President by 223. She turned after Z223, but recalled herself turning sooner. What she saw is what the Z-film shows after the President emerges from behind the sign.
Do you believe the Governor was struck at Z285?
It appears John Connally chose not to disagree with his wife. Who can
blame him?
I don't. She can be seen a bit later in the interview standing right
beside the bed. It wouldn't have been a good look for the Governor to get
into an argument with his wife during the interview about what transpired
in those brief seconds the car was under fire. I believe - as he clarified
at a later date to Eddie Barker - she was the source of his statement
about the President slumping. And I think it's important to note that in
the initial interview cited by "Rusty Sites" that the Governor never said
he *saw* the President had slumped. He said only "the President had
slumped" - which has always been Nellie's view and that observation is
therefore not the Governor's direct observation but only hearsay from
Nellie being repeated by the Governor.
That's a good observation picking up on the nuance that JBC did not say he
saw the President had slumped. I had always assumed he had seen the
President slump but looking at it in that light, he clearly is not saying
Stop twisting words.
Connally did not say that he SAW JFK slump.
http://the-puzzle-palace.com/Connally.htm
He didn't say either one of those things. As Hank astutely pointed out, he
never used the word "saw".
So you think Connally used his psychic abilities and never saw anything.
I reject that.
My point is that Connally did not see JFK slump. He saw that JFK had
slumped.
John Corbett
2021-01-05 15:20:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John Corbett
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John Corbett
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by John Corbett
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Rusty Sites
Post by John Corbett
The FBI determine that Zapruder's camera ran at an average speed of 18.3
frames per second. Rounding out to four decimal places that comes to an
average of .0546 seconds per frame. However, each frame is not exposed for
that length of time. Movie film is simply a string of rapid fire still
photos which require a continuous series of starts and stops with the
frame being exposed during the stops with no exposure being made while the
film advances to expose the next frame. I think I read a long time ago
that each frame is exposed for 60% of the .0546 seconds follow by a gap
of 40% of the .0546 seconds. I can't find a reference to confirm if that
is true or whether this is just a faulty memory. Assuming it is true and
again rounding out to four decimal places, that means a frame is exposed
for .0328 seconds and advanced for .0219 seconds during which the camera
is not recording the action. Because the bullets would require only a
couple milliseconds to pass through the bodies of JFK and JBC, that means
that either of the shots which struck JFK could have hit him during the
exposure of a frame or during the gap between frames. The head shot could
have struck either during the exposure of frame 313 or in the gap between
312 and 313 with frame 313 showing us only the aftermath of the strike. It
is less definite as to when the single bullet struck and if it did strike
during the exposure of a frame, we don't know if it struck early during
the exposure, late or somewhere in the middle. This makes it a bit more
difficult to determine precisely when the shot was fired and when it
struck. We are left to analyze clues to determine the best fit for those
clues. The clues we have are the bulging of the JBC's jacket, and the
jiggle of Zapruder's camera at frame 227. The jiggle from head shot
occurred about 7 frames after the shot was fired. Since Zapruder was a
constant distance from the rifle, we could expect a similar amount of
frames between the shot being fired and the jiggle. That would indicate
the single bullet shot was likely fired during Z220 or the gap before or
after the exposure of that frame striking a couple frames later. The
bulging of JBC's jacket at Z224 happened after the bullet passed through
it. What we aren't sure of is how much of lag there was between the bullet
passing through and the jacket bulging. It seems to indicate a strike
about 223. The simultaneous reaction by JFK and JBC at 226 would have
occurred roughly 3-4 frames after the bullet passed through them. That
reaction could have begun in the 225-226 gap, late in the exposure of 226
or somewhere in between. What we are left with are three approximations
and it seems to me the best fit for all three of these approximations
would be the bullet strike either in the gap between 222-223 or early in
the 223 exposure.
Determining the precise instant of the single bullet strike is not
necessary for proving the validity of the SBT but it needs to be shown
that there is a plausible time frame for when that bullet struck. It think
the above analysis accomplishes that. In 1964 the WC gave us a range of
210-225 for when the single bullet could have struck. Given the advantage
of time and better technology, I think we can establish a much tighter
time frame for when that bullet struck.
I would be interested to see how others analyze these clues.
Here are some clues which I think are important for determining when
Connally was hit.
1) Everything Connally did after he came out from behind the sign was to
see JFK or see him better until he abruptly falls back about 285,
starts rolling his head back and forth, and doesn't try to see JFK
anymore. Perhaps you find some small event between 222 and 230 that you
think shows he is hit but after that you have 3-4 seconds where
Connally does not appear to be behaving as if he is hit and certainly
not like he has shattered ribs. How does that not strongly argue
against him being hit when you think he was? One of my guiding
principles is, once they're hit, they stay hit. Another clue is that,
in his hospital interview, Connally said he turned and saw JFK was
slumped before he was hit.
That's not true. He didn't say he saw the President was slumped. He said
"the President had slumped". In his testimony before both the Warren
Commission and the HSCA, he explained he never saw the President during
the shooting or thereafter. Nellie saw the President, and it was her
testimony the President appeared to be hit by the first shot. And that's
when the President slumped.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/conn_n.htm
== QUOTE ==
Mrs. CONNALLY. In fact the receptions had been. so good every place that I
had showed much restraint by not mentioning something about it before I
could resist no longer. When we got past this area I did turn to the
President and said, "Mr. President, you can't say Dallas doesn't love
you." Then I don't know how soon, it seems to me it was very soon, that I
heard a noise, and not being an expert rifleman, I was not aware that it
was a rifle. It was just a frightening noise, and it came from the right.
I turned over my right shoulder and looked back, and saw the President as
he had both hands at his neck.
Mr. SPECTER. And you are indicating with your own hands, two hands
crossing over gripping your own neck?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes; and it seemed to me there was--he made no utterance,
no cry. I saw no blood, no anything. It was just sort of nothing, the
expression on his face, and he just sort of slumped down.
Then very soon there was the second shot that hit John. As the first shot
was hit, and I turned to look at the same time, I recall John saying, "Oh,
no, no, no." Then there was a second shot, and it hit John, and as he
recoiled to the right, just crumpled like a wounded animal to the right,
he said, "My God, they are going to kill us all."
== UNQUOTE ==
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/conn_j.htm
== QUOTE ==
Governor CONNALLY. We had--we had gone, I guess, 150 feet, maybe 200 feet, I don't recall how far it was, heading down to get on the freeway, the Stemmons Freeway, to go out to the hall where we were going to have lunch and, as I say, the crowds had begun to thin, and we could--I was anticipating that we were going to be at the hall in approximately 5 minutes from the time we turned on Elm Street.
We had just made the turn, well, when I heard what I thought was a shot. I heard this noise which I immediately took to be a rifle shot. I instinctively turned to my right because the sound appeared to come from over my right
shoulder, so I turned to look back over my right shoulder, and I saw nothing unusual except just people in the crowd, but I did not catch the President in the corner of my eye, and I was interested, because once I heard the shot in my own mind I identified it as a rifle shot, and I immediately--the only thought that crossed my mind was that this is an assassination attempt.
So I looked, failing to see him, I was turning to look back over my left shoulder into the back seat, but I never got that far in my turn. I got about in the position I am in now facing you, looking a little bit to the left of center, and then I felt like someone had hit me in the back.
...
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any reaction by President Kennedy after the shooting?
Governor CONNALLY. No; I did not see him.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any reaction by Mrs. Kennedy after the shooting?
Governor CONNALLY. I did not see her. This almost sounds incredible, I am sure, since we were in the car with them. But again I will repeat very briefly when what I believe to be the shot first occurred, I turned to my right, which was away from both of them, of course, and looked out and could see neither, and then as I was turning to look into the back seat where I would have seen both of them, I was hit, so I never completed the turn at all, and I never saw either one of them after the firing started, and, of course, as I have testified, then Mrs. Connally pulled me over into her lap and I was facing forward with my head slightly turned up to where I could see the driver and Roy Kellerman on his right, but I could not see into the back seat, so I didn't see either one of them.
== UNQUOTE ==
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/hscacon.htm
== QUOTE ==
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. Cornwell, we had just turned to Elm. We had gone, I suspect, oh, 150, 200 feet when I heard what I thought was a rifle shot and I thought it came from--I was seated right, as you know, the jump seat right in front of the President, and they have a fairly straight back on them so I was sitting up fairly erect. I thought the shot came from back over my right shoulder, so I turned to see if I could catch a sight of the President out of the corner of my eye because I immediately had, frankly, had fear of an assassination because I thought it was a rifle shot.
I didn't think it was a blowout or explosion of any kind. I didn't see the President out of the corner of my eye, so I was in the process of, at least I was turning to look over my left shoulder into the back seat to see if I could see him. I never looked, I never made the full turn. About the time I turned back where I was facing more or less straight ahead, the way the car was moving, I was hit. I was knocked over, just doubled over by the force of the bullet. It went in my back and came out my chest about 2 inches below and the left of my right nipple. The force of the bullet drove my body over almost double and when I looked, immediately I could see I was just drenched with blood. So, I knew I had been badly hit and I more or less straightened up. At about this time, Nelly reached over and pulled me down into her lap.
I was in her lap facing forward when another shot was fired. I only heard two shots. I did not hear the shot that hit me. I wasn't conscious of it. I am sure I heard it, but I was not conscious of it at all. I heard another shot. I heard it hit. It hit with a very pronounced impact, just [slap of hands] almost like that. Almost that loud a sound; it made a very, very strong sound.
Immediately, I could see blood and brain tissue all over the interior of the car and all over our clothes. We were both covered with brain tissue, and there were pieces of brain tissue as big as your little finger. It was something that was unmistakable. There was no question in my mind about what it was.
About this moment in time, Roy Kellerman, who was the Secret Service agent sitting in the right-front seat, pushed, apparently was pushing some buttons on the panel, doing what, I don't know. I heard him say, "Let's get out of here fast," and the car lurched forward then. Bill Greer was the driver. He accelerated it tremendously.
When I was hit, or shortly before I was hit--no, I guess it was after I was hit--I said first, just almost in despair, I said, "no, no, no, just thinking how tragic it was that we had gone through this 24 hours, it had all been so wonderful and so beautifully executed. The President had been so marvelously received and then here, at the last moment this great tragedy. I just said, "no, no, no, no".
Then I said right after I was hit, I said, "My God, they are going to kill us all." ....
The shots came, in my judgment, the two shots I heard came from the same direction, back over my right shoulder, came from behind us. Very clear to me where they came from. I don't think any shots came from any other direction. I was conscious until we hit the Stemmons Freeway and then I faded into unconsciousness.
I revived when the car came to a stop at what was Parkland Hospital. Apparently, the braking of the car--we must have been traveling at an enormous rate of speed--the braking of the car brought me back to consciousness and you know it is strange what thoughts run through your mind.
The first thought that occurred to me was that I was in the jump seat, that the right door of the car was opposite my seat and that they couldn't reach the President. Well, I got out of the way and that is when I tried to raise myself up out of Nelly's lap and actually tried to get out of the car myself, so that they could get to him in the back seat.
I knew he was hit. I knew their first concern would be for the President. So, that was the reason why I lurched up, or tried to get up out of a reclining position. Of course, I couldn't. I wasn't able to. I got halfway up and just slumped again, as Nelly just told you. Then, someone did pick me up and put me on a stretcher and took me into an emergency room or trauma room, whatever it was.
I obviously didn't know what it was. At that point, I felt the first pain, really, that I had experienced and when I was on the stretcher, I was laid out. Then, there was excruciating pain in my chest.
At the time I was hit, strangely enough, I felt no sharp pain. It was as if someone had come up behind me with a doubled up fist and just hit me in the back right between the shoulder blades. It was that kind of a sensation.
I would have to volunteer the very, very strong opinion, I know much has been written, much has been discussed, I was being a participant, I can only give you my impressions, but I must say you, as I said to the Warren Commission, I do not believe, nor will I ever believe, that I was hit with the first bullet. I don't believe that. I heard the first shot. I reacted to the first shot and I was not hit with that bullet: Now, there's a great deal of speculation that the President and I were hit with the same bullet that might well, be, but it surely wasn't the first bullet and Nelly doesn't think it's the second bullet. I don't know, I didn't hear the second bullet. I felt the second bullet. We obviously weren't hit by the third bullet. I was down reclining in her lap at the time the third bullet hit.
Mr. CORNWELL. I am sorry, I didn't understand one statement. You said Mrs. Connally doesn't agree it was the second bullet or the same bullet?
Mr. CONNALLY. The second bullet.
Mrs. CONNALLY. That what?
Mr. CONNALLY. That hit me. That hit him and me--
Mrs. CONNALLY. No; I heard three shots, I had three reactions, three separate reactions. The first shot, then I looked and saw the President, the second shot, John, and third, all this matter all over us.
Mr. CORNWELL. So you agree that your recollection is it was the second shot that hit the Governor?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I know it was the second shot that hit the Governor.
Mr. CORNWELL. And, where you disagree is as to the possibility or the question of whether or not it was the same bullet that hit, is that accurate, in other words, the Governor has no knowledge on that subject matter, would that be accurate, since you didn't turn around to see the President, after the first noise, you don't know whether he was hit and Mrs. Connally's recollection is that she did turn and saw him hold his throat before you were hit, is that accurate?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I did.
Mr. CONNALLY. That is correct. I never saw him. I never saw Mrs. Kennedy after the shots were fired. I never saw either one of them, and I don't know when he was hit.
== UNQUOTE ==
== QUOTE ==
https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKconnally.htm
Eddie Barker: Do you believe, Governor Connally, that the first bullet could have missed, the second one hit both of you, and the third one hit President Kennedy?
John Connally: That's possible. That's possible. Now, the best witness I know doesn't believe that.
Eddie Barker: Who is the best witness you know?
John Connally: Nellie was there, and she saw it. She believes the first bullet hit him, because she saw him after he was hit. She thinks the second bullet hit me, and the third bullet hit him.
== UNQUOTE ==
Nellie hasn't turned to look back at the President by 223. She turned after Z223, but recalled herself turning sooner. What she saw is what the Z-film shows after the President emerges from behind the sign.
Do you believe the Governor was struck at Z285?
It appears John Connally chose not to disagree with his wife. Who can
blame him?
I don't. She can be seen a bit later in the interview standing right
beside the bed. It wouldn't have been a good look for the Governor to get
into an argument with his wife during the interview about what transpired
in those brief seconds the car was under fire. I believe - as he clarified
at a later date to Eddie Barker - she was the source of his statement
about the President slumping. And I think it's important to note that in
the initial interview cited by "Rusty Sites" that the Governor never said
he *saw* the President had slumped. He said only "the President had
slumped" - which has always been Nellie's view and that observation is
therefore not the Governor's direct observation but only hearsay from
Nellie being repeated by the Governor.
That's a good observation picking up on the nuance that JBC did not say he
saw the President had slumped. I had always assumed he had seen the
President slump but looking at it in that light, he clearly is not saying
Stop twisting words.
Connally did not say that he SAW JFK slump.
http://the-puzzle-palace.com/Connally.htm
He didn't say either one of those things. As Hank astutely pointed out, he
never used the word "saw".
So you think Connally used his psychic abilities and never saw anything.
I reject that.
He could have been told by Nellie what she saw and taken her at here word.
If she told him the same thing she told the WC, he would have been led to
believe JFK slumped after the first shot.
Post by Anthony Marsh
My point is that Connally did not see JFK slump. He saw that JFK had
slumped.
He couldn't have seen either one of those things until several seconds
after he had been shot because he didn't turn far enough before he had
been shot.
Anthony Marsh
2021-01-05 20:07:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Corbett
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John Corbett
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John Corbett
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by John Corbett
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Rusty Sites
Post by John Corbett
The FBI determine that Zapruder's camera ran at an average speed of 18.3
frames per second. Rounding out to four decimal places that comes to an
average of .0546 seconds per frame. However, each frame is not exposed for
that length of time. Movie film is simply a string of rapid fire still
photos which require a continuous series of starts and stops with the
frame being exposed during the stops with no exposure being made while the
film advances to expose the next frame. I think I read a long time ago
that each frame is exposed for 60% of the .0546 seconds follow by a gap
of 40% of the .0546 seconds. I can't find a reference to confirm if that
is true or whether this is just a faulty memory. Assuming it is true and
again rounding out to four decimal places, that means a frame is exposed
for .0328 seconds and advanced for .0219 seconds during which the camera
is not recording the action. Because the bullets would require only a
couple milliseconds to pass through the bodies of JFK and JBC, that means
that either of the shots which struck JFK could have hit him during the
exposure of a frame or during the gap between frames. The head shot could
have struck either during the exposure of frame 313 or in the gap between
312 and 313 with frame 313 showing us only the aftermath of the strike. It
is less definite as to when the single bullet struck and if it did strike
during the exposure of a frame, we don't know if it struck early during
the exposure, late or somewhere in the middle. This makes it a bit more
difficult to determine precisely when the shot was fired and when it
struck. We are left to analyze clues to determine the best fit for those
clues. The clues we have are the bulging of the JBC's jacket, and the
jiggle of Zapruder's camera at frame 227. The jiggle from head shot
occurred about 7 frames after the shot was fired. Since Zapruder was a
constant distance from the rifle, we could expect a similar amount of
frames between the shot being fired and the jiggle. That would indicate
the single bullet shot was likely fired during Z220 or the gap before or
after the exposure of that frame striking a couple frames later. The
bulging of JBC's jacket at Z224 happened after the bullet passed through
it. What we aren't sure of is how much of lag there was between the bullet
passing through and the jacket bulging. It seems to indicate a strike
about 223. The simultaneous reaction by JFK and JBC at 226 would have
occurred roughly 3-4 frames after the bullet passed through them. That
reaction could have begun in the 225-226 gap, late in the exposure of 226
or somewhere in between. What we are left with are three approximations
and it seems to me the best fit for all three of these approximations
would be the bullet strike either in the gap between 222-223 or early in
the 223 exposure.
Determining the precise instant of the single bullet strike is not
necessary for proving the validity of the SBT but it needs to be shown
that there is a plausible time frame for when that bullet struck. It think
the above analysis accomplishes that. In 1964 the WC gave us a range of
210-225 for when the single bullet could have struck. Given the advantage
of time and better technology, I think we can establish a much tighter
time frame for when that bullet struck.
I would be interested to see how others analyze these clues.
Here are some clues which I think are important for determining when
Connally was hit.
1) Everything Connally did after he came out from behind the sign was to
see JFK or see him better until he abruptly falls back about 285,
starts rolling his head back and forth, and doesn't try to see JFK
anymore. Perhaps you find some small event between 222 and 230 that you
think shows he is hit but after that you have 3-4 seconds where
Connally does not appear to be behaving as if he is hit and certainly
not like he has shattered ribs. How does that not strongly argue
against him being hit when you think he was? One of my guiding
principles is, once they're hit, they stay hit. Another clue is that,
in his hospital interview, Connally said he turned and saw JFK was
slumped before he was hit.
That's not true. He didn't say he saw the President was slumped. He said
"the President had slumped". In his testimony before both the Warren
Commission and the HSCA, he explained he never saw the President during
the shooting or thereafter. Nellie saw the President, and it was her
testimony the President appeared to be hit by the first shot. And that's
when the President slumped.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/conn_n.htm
== QUOTE ==
Mrs. CONNALLY. In fact the receptions had been. so good every place that I
had showed much restraint by not mentioning something about it before I
could resist no longer. When we got past this area I did turn to the
President and said, "Mr. President, you can't say Dallas doesn't love
you." Then I don't know how soon, it seems to me it was very soon, that I
heard a noise, and not being an expert rifleman, I was not aware that it
was a rifle. It was just a frightening noise, and it came from the right.
I turned over my right shoulder and looked back, and saw the President as
he had both hands at his neck.
Mr. SPECTER. And you are indicating with your own hands, two hands
crossing over gripping your own neck?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes; and it seemed to me there was--he made no utterance,
no cry. I saw no blood, no anything. It was just sort of nothing, the
expression on his face, and he just sort of slumped down.
Then very soon there was the second shot that hit John. As the first shot
was hit, and I turned to look at the same time, I recall John saying, "Oh,
no, no, no." Then there was a second shot, and it hit John, and as he
recoiled to the right, just crumpled like a wounded animal to the right,
he said, "My God, they are going to kill us all."
== UNQUOTE ==
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/conn_j.htm
== QUOTE ==
Governor CONNALLY. We had--we had gone, I guess, 150 feet, maybe 200 feet, I don't recall how far it was, heading down to get on the freeway, the Stemmons Freeway, to go out to the hall where we were going to have lunch and, as I say, the crowds had begun to thin, and we could--I was anticipating that we were going to be at the hall in approximately 5 minutes from the time we turned on Elm Street.
We had just made the turn, well, when I heard what I thought was a shot. I heard this noise which I immediately took to be a rifle shot. I instinctively turned to my right because the sound appeared to come from over my right
shoulder, so I turned to look back over my right shoulder, and I saw nothing unusual except just people in the crowd, but I did not catch the President in the corner of my eye, and I was interested, because once I heard the shot in my own mind I identified it as a rifle shot, and I immediately--the only thought that crossed my mind was that this is an assassination attempt.
So I looked, failing to see him, I was turning to look back over my left shoulder into the back seat, but I never got that far in my turn. I got about in the position I am in now facing you, looking a little bit to the left of center, and then I felt like someone had hit me in the back.
...
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any reaction by President Kennedy after the shooting?
Governor CONNALLY. No; I did not see him.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any reaction by Mrs. Kennedy after the shooting?
Governor CONNALLY. I did not see her. This almost sounds incredible, I am sure, since we were in the car with them. But again I will repeat very briefly when what I believe to be the shot first occurred, I turned to my right, which was away from both of them, of course, and looked out and could see neither, and then as I was turning to look into the back seat where I would have seen both of them, I was hit, so I never completed the turn at all, and I never saw either one of them after the firing started, and, of course, as I have testified, then Mrs. Connally pulled me over into her lap and I was facing forward with my head slightly turned up to where I could see the driver and Roy Kellerman on his right, but I could not see into the back seat, so I didn't see either one of them.
== UNQUOTE ==
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/hscacon.htm
== QUOTE ==
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. Cornwell, we had just turned to Elm. We had gone, I suspect, oh, 150, 200 feet when I heard what I thought was a rifle shot and I thought it came from--I was seated right, as you know, the jump seat right in front of the President, and they have a fairly straight back on them so I was sitting up fairly erect. I thought the shot came from back over my right shoulder, so I turned to see if I could catch a sight of the President out of the corner of my eye because I immediately had, frankly, had fear of an assassination because I thought it was a rifle shot.
I didn't think it was a blowout or explosion of any kind. I didn't see the President out of the corner of my eye, so I was in the process of, at least I was turning to look over my left shoulder into the back seat to see if I could see him. I never looked, I never made the full turn. About the time I turned back where I was facing more or less straight ahead, the way the car was moving, I was hit. I was knocked over, just doubled over by the force of the bullet. It went in my back and came out my chest about 2 inches below and the left of my right nipple. The force of the bullet drove my body over almost double and when I looked, immediately I could see I was just drenched with blood. So, I knew I had been badly hit and I more or less straightened up. At about this time, Nelly reached over and pulled me down into her lap.
I was in her lap facing forward when another shot was fired. I only heard two shots. I did not hear the shot that hit me. I wasn't conscious of it. I am sure I heard it, but I was not conscious of it at all. I heard another shot. I heard it hit. It hit with a very pronounced impact, just [slap of hands] almost like that. Almost that loud a sound; it made a very, very strong sound.
Immediately, I could see blood and brain tissue all over the interior of the car and all over our clothes. We were both covered with brain tissue, and there were pieces of brain tissue as big as your little finger. It was something that was unmistakable. There was no question in my mind about what it was.
About this moment in time, Roy Kellerman, who was the Secret Service agent sitting in the right-front seat, pushed, apparently was pushing some buttons on the panel, doing what, I don't know. I heard him say, "Let's get out of here fast," and the car lurched forward then. Bill Greer was the driver. He accelerated it tremendously.
When I was hit, or shortly before I was hit--no, I guess it was after I was hit--I said first, just almost in despair, I said, "no, no, no, just thinking how tragic it was that we had gone through this 24 hours, it had all been so wonderful and so beautifully executed. The President had been so marvelously received and then here, at the last moment this great tragedy. I just said, "no, no, no, no".
Then I said right after I was hit, I said, "My God, they are going to kill us all." ....
The shots came, in my judgment, the two shots I heard came from the same direction, back over my right shoulder, came from behind us. Very clear to me where they came from. I don't think any shots came from any other direction. I was conscious until we hit the Stemmons Freeway and then I faded into unconsciousness.
I revived when the car came to a stop at what was Parkland Hospital. Apparently, the braking of the car--we must have been traveling at an enormous rate of speed--the braking of the car brought me back to consciousness and you know it is strange what thoughts run through your mind.
The first thought that occurred to me was that I was in the jump seat, that the right door of the car was opposite my seat and that they couldn't reach the President. Well, I got out of the way and that is when I tried to raise myself up out of Nelly's lap and actually tried to get out of the car myself, so that they could get to him in the back seat.
I knew he was hit. I knew their first concern would be for the President. So, that was the reason why I lurched up, or tried to get up out of a reclining position. Of course, I couldn't. I wasn't able to. I got halfway up and just slumped again, as Nelly just told you. Then, someone did pick me up and put me on a stretcher and took me into an emergency room or trauma room, whatever it was.
I obviously didn't know what it was. At that point, I felt the first pain, really, that I had experienced and when I was on the stretcher, I was laid out. Then, there was excruciating pain in my chest.
At the time I was hit, strangely enough, I felt no sharp pain. It was as if someone had come up behind me with a doubled up fist and just hit me in the back right between the shoulder blades. It was that kind of a sensation.
I would have to volunteer the very, very strong opinion, I know much has been written, much has been discussed, I was being a participant, I can only give you my impressions, but I must say you, as I said to the Warren Commission, I do not believe, nor will I ever believe, that I was hit with the first bullet. I don't believe that. I heard the first shot. I reacted to the first shot and I was not hit with that bullet: Now, there's a great deal of speculation that the President and I were hit with the same bullet that might well, be, but it surely wasn't the first bullet and Nelly doesn't think it's the second bullet. I don't know, I didn't hear the second bullet. I felt the second bullet. We obviously weren't hit by the third bullet. I was down reclining in her lap at the time the third bullet hit.
Mr. CORNWELL. I am sorry, I didn't understand one statement. You said Mrs. Connally doesn't agree it was the second bullet or the same bullet?
Mr. CONNALLY. The second bullet.
Mrs. CONNALLY. That what?
Mr. CONNALLY. That hit me. That hit him and me--
Mrs. CONNALLY. No; I heard three shots, I had three reactions, three separate reactions. The first shot, then I looked and saw the President, the second shot, John, and third, all this matter all over us.
Mr. CORNWELL. So you agree that your recollection is it was the second shot that hit the Governor?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I know it was the second shot that hit the Governor.
Mr. CORNWELL. And, where you disagree is as to the possibility or the question of whether or not it was the same bullet that hit, is that accurate, in other words, the Governor has no knowledge on that subject matter, would that be accurate, since you didn't turn around to see the President, after the first noise, you don't know whether he was hit and Mrs. Connally's recollection is that she did turn and saw him hold his throat before you were hit, is that accurate?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I did.
Mr. CONNALLY. That is correct. I never saw him. I never saw Mrs. Kennedy after the shots were fired. I never saw either one of them, and I don't know when he was hit.
== UNQUOTE ==
== QUOTE ==
https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKconnally.htm
Eddie Barker: Do you believe, Governor Connally, that the first bullet could have missed, the second one hit both of you, and the third one hit President Kennedy?
John Connally: That's possible. That's possible. Now, the best witness I know doesn't believe that.
Eddie Barker: Who is the best witness you know?
John Connally: Nellie was there, and she saw it. She believes the first bullet hit him, because she saw him after he was hit. She thinks the second bullet hit me, and the third bullet hit him.
== UNQUOTE ==
Nellie hasn't turned to look back at the President by 223. She turned after Z223, but recalled herself turning sooner. What she saw is what the Z-film shows after the President emerges from behind the sign.
Do you believe the Governor was struck at Z285?
It appears John Connally chose not to disagree with his wife. Who can
blame him?
I don't. She can be seen a bit later in the interview standing right
beside the bed. It wouldn't have been a good look for the Governor to get
into an argument with his wife during the interview about what transpired
in those brief seconds the car was under fire. I believe - as he clarified
at a later date to Eddie Barker - she was the source of his statement
about the President slumping. And I think it's important to note that in
the initial interview cited by "Rusty Sites" that the Governor never said
he *saw* the President had slumped. He said only "the President had
slumped" - which has always been Nellie's view and that observation is
therefore not the Governor's direct observation but only hearsay from
Nellie being repeated by the Governor.
That's a good observation picking up on the nuance that JBC did not say he
saw the President had slumped. I had always assumed he had seen the
President slump but looking at it in that light, he clearly is not saying
Stop twisting words.
Connally did not say that he SAW JFK slump.
http://the-puzzle-palace.com/Connally.htm
He didn't say either one of those things. As Hank astutely pointed out, he
never used the word "saw".
So you think Connally used his psychic abilities and never saw anything.
I reject that.
He could have been told by Nellie what she saw and taken her at here word.
If she told him the same thing she told the WC, he would have been led to
believe JFK slumped after the first shot.
Post by Anthony Marsh
My point is that Connally did not see JFK slump. He saw that JFK had
slumped.
He couldn't have seen either one of those things until several seconds
after he had been shot because he didn't turn far enough before he had
been shot.
fALSE. Didn't you read my essay?
Connally did not have to wait until he was shot to react. He said he was
in the peocess of turning ehen he was hit. But he had turned his HEAD to
look back and saw that JFK had already been hit.
Stop misrepresenting the facts.
Steve Barber
2021-01-06 06:13:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John Corbett
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John Corbett
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John Corbett
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by John Corbett
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Rusty Sites
Post by John Corbett
The FBI determine that Zapruder's camera ran at an average speed of 18.3
frames per second. Rounding out to four decimal places that comes to an
average of .0546 seconds per frame. However, each frame is not exposed for
that length of time. Movie film is simply a string of rapid fire still
photos which require a continuous series of starts and stops with the
frame being exposed during the stops with no exposure being made while the
film advances to expose the next frame. I think I read a long time ago
that each frame is exposed for 60% of the .0546 seconds follow by a gap
of 40% of the .0546 seconds. I can't find a reference to confirm if that
is true or whether this is just a faulty memory. Assuming it is true and
again rounding out to four decimal places, that means a frame is exposed
for .0328 seconds and advanced for .0219 seconds during which the camera
is not recording the action. Because the bullets would require only a
couple milliseconds to pass through the bodies of JFK and JBC, that means
that either of the shots which struck JFK could have hit him during the
exposure of a frame or during the gap between frames. The head shot could
have struck either during the exposure of frame 313 or in the gap between
312 and 313 with frame 313 showing us only the aftermath of the strike. It
is less definite as to when the single bullet struck and if it did strike
during the exposure of a frame, we don't know if it struck early during
the exposure, late or somewhere in the middle. This makes it a bit more
difficult to determine precisely when the shot was fired and when it
struck. We are left to analyze clues to determine the best fit for those
clues. The clues we have are the bulging of the JBC's jacket, and the
jiggle of Zapruder's camera at frame 227. The jiggle from head shot
occurred about 7 frames after the shot was fired. Since Zapruder was a
constant distance from the rifle, we could expect a similar amount of
frames between the shot being fired and the jiggle. That would indicate
the single bullet shot was likely fired during Z220 or the gap before or
after the exposure of that frame striking a couple frames later. The
bulging of JBC's jacket at Z224 happened after the bullet passed through
it. What we aren't sure of is how much of lag there was between the bullet
passing through and the jacket bulging. It seems to indicate a strike
about 223. The simultaneous reaction by JFK and JBC at 226 would have
occurred roughly 3-4 frames after the bullet passed through them. That
reaction could have begun in the 225-226 gap, late in the exposure of 226
or somewhere in between. What we are left with are three approximations
and it seems to me the best fit for all three of these approximations
would be the bullet strike either in the gap between 222-223 or early in
the 223 exposure.
Determining the precise instant of the single bullet strike is not
necessary for proving the validity of the SBT but it needs to be shown
that there is a plausible time frame for when that bullet struck. It think
the above analysis accomplishes that. In 1964 the WC gave us a range of
210-225 for when the single bullet could have struck. Given the advantage
of time and better technology, I think we can establish a much tighter
time frame for when that bullet struck.
I would be interested to see how others analyze these clues.
Here are some clues which I think are important for determining when
Connally was hit.
1) Everything Connally did after he came out from behind the sign was to
see JFK or see him better until he abruptly falls back about 285,
starts rolling his head back and forth, and doesn't try to see JFK
anymore. Perhaps you find some small event between 222 and 230 that you
think shows he is hit but after that you have 3-4 seconds where
Connally does not appear to be behaving as if he is hit and certainly
not like he has shattered ribs. How does that not strongly argue
against him being hit when you think he was? One of my guiding
principles is, once they're hit, they stay hit. Another clue is that,
in his hospital interview, Connally said he turned and saw JFK was
slumped before he was hit.
That's not true. He didn't say he saw the President was slumped. He said
"the President had slumped". In his testimony before both the Warren
Commission and the HSCA, he explained he never saw the President during
the shooting or thereafter. Nellie saw the President, and it was her
testimony the President appeared to be hit by the first shot. And that's
when the President slumped.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/conn_n.htm
== QUOTE ==
Mrs. CONNALLY. In fact the receptions had been. so good every place that I
had showed much restraint by not mentioning something about it before I
could resist no longer. When we got past this area I did turn to the
President and said, "Mr. President, you can't say Dallas doesn't love
you." Then I don't know how soon, it seems to me it was very soon, that I
heard a noise, and not being an expert rifleman, I was not aware that it
was a rifle. It was just a frightening noise, and it came from the right.
I turned over my right shoulder and looked back, and saw the President as
he had both hands at his neck.
Mr. SPECTER. And you are indicating with your own hands, two hands
crossing over gripping your own neck?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes; and it seemed to me there was--he made no utterance,
no cry. I saw no blood, no anything. It was just sort of nothing, the
expression on his face, and he just sort of slumped down.
Then very soon there was the second shot that hit John. As the first shot
was hit, and I turned to look at the same time, I recall John saying, "Oh,
no, no, no." Then there was a second shot, and it hit John, and as he
recoiled to the right, just crumpled like a wounded animal to the right,
he said, "My God, they are going to kill us all."
== UNQUOTE ==
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/conn_j.htm
== QUOTE ==
Governor CONNALLY. We had--we had gone, I guess, 150 feet, maybe 200 feet, I don't recall how far it was, heading down to get on the freeway, the Stemmons Freeway, to go out to the hall where we were going to have lunch and, as I say, the crowds had begun to thin, and we could--I was anticipating that we were going to be at the hall in approximately 5 minutes from the time we turned on Elm Street.
We had just made the turn, well, when I heard what I thought was a shot. I heard this noise which I immediately took to be a rifle shot. I instinctively turned to my right because the sound appeared to come from over my right
shoulder, so I turned to look back over my right shoulder, and I saw nothing unusual except just people in the crowd, but I did not catch the President in the corner of my eye, and I was interested, because once I heard the shot in my own mind I identified it as a rifle shot, and I immediately--the only thought that crossed my mind was that this is an assassination attempt.
So I looked, failing to see him, I was turning to look back over my left shoulder into the back seat, but I never got that far in my turn. I got about in the position I am in now facing you, looking a little bit to the left of center, and then I felt like someone had hit me in the back.
...
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any reaction by President Kennedy after the shooting?
Governor CONNALLY. No; I did not see him.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any reaction by Mrs. Kennedy after the shooting?
Governor CONNALLY. I did not see her. This almost sounds incredible, I am sure, since we were in the car with them. But again I will repeat very briefly when what I believe to be the shot first occurred, I turned to my right, which was away from both of them, of course, and looked out and could see neither, and then as I was turning to look into the back seat where I would have seen both of them, I was hit, so I never completed the turn at all, and I never saw either one of them after the firing started, and, of course, as I have testified, then Mrs. Connally pulled me over into her lap and I was facing forward with my head slightly turned up to where I could see the driver and Roy Kellerman on his right, but I could not see into the back seat, so I didn't see either one of them.
== UNQUOTE ==
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/hscacon.htm
== QUOTE ==
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. Cornwell, we had just turned to Elm. We had gone, I suspect, oh, 150, 200 feet when I heard what I thought was a rifle shot and I thought it came from--I was seated right, as you know, the jump seat right in front of the President, and they have a fairly straight back on them so I was sitting up fairly erect. I thought the shot came from back over my right shoulder, so I turned to see if I could catch a sight of the President out of the corner of my eye because I immediately had, frankly, had fear of an assassination because I thought it was a rifle shot.
I didn't think it was a blowout or explosion of any kind. I didn't see the President out of the corner of my eye, so I was in the process of, at least I was turning to look over my left shoulder into the back seat to see if I could see him. I never looked, I never made the full turn. About the time I turned back where I was facing more or less straight ahead, the way the car was moving, I was hit. I was knocked over, just doubled over by the force of the bullet. It went in my back and came out my chest about 2 inches below and the left of my right nipple. The force of the bullet drove my body over almost double and when I looked, immediately I could see I was just drenched with blood. So, I knew I had been badly hit and I more or less straightened up. At about this time, Nelly reached over and pulled me down into her lap.
I was in her lap facing forward when another shot was fired. I only heard two shots. I did not hear the shot that hit me. I wasn't conscious of it. I am sure I heard it, but I was not conscious of it at all. I heard another shot. I heard it hit. It hit with a very pronounced impact, just [slap of hands] almost like that. Almost that loud a sound; it made a very, very strong sound.
Immediately, I could see blood and brain tissue all over the interior of the car and all over our clothes. We were both covered with brain tissue, and there were pieces of brain tissue as big as your little finger. It was something that was unmistakable. There was no question in my mind about what it was.
About this moment in time, Roy Kellerman, who was the Secret Service agent sitting in the right-front seat, pushed, apparently was pushing some buttons on the panel, doing what, I don't know. I heard him say, "Let's get out of here fast," and the car lurched forward then. Bill Greer was the driver. He accelerated it tremendously.
When I was hit, or shortly before I was hit--no, I guess it was after I was hit--I said first, just almost in despair, I said, "no, no, no, just thinking how tragic it was that we had gone through this 24 hours, it had all been so wonderful and so beautifully executed. The President had been so marvelously received and then here, at the last moment this great tragedy. I just said, "no, no, no, no".
Then I said right after I was hit, I said, "My God, they are going to kill us all." ....
The shots came, in my judgment, the two shots I heard came from the same direction, back over my right shoulder, came from behind us. Very clear to me where they came from. I don't think any shots came from any other direction. I was conscious until we hit the Stemmons Freeway and then I faded into unconsciousness.
I revived when the car came to a stop at what was Parkland Hospital. Apparently, the braking of the car--we must have been traveling at an enormous rate of speed--the braking of the car brought me back to consciousness and you know it is strange what thoughts run through your mind.
The first thought that occurred to me was that I was in the jump seat, that the right door of the car was opposite my seat and that they couldn't reach the President. Well, I got out of the way and that is when I tried to raise myself up out of Nelly's lap and actually tried to get out of the car myself, so that they could get to him in the back seat.
I knew he was hit. I knew their first concern would be for the President. So, that was the reason why I lurched up, or tried to get up out of a reclining position. Of course, I couldn't. I wasn't able to. I got halfway up and just slumped again, as Nelly just told you. Then, someone did pick me up and put me on a stretcher and took me into an emergency room or trauma room, whatever it was.
I obviously didn't know what it was. At that point, I felt the first pain, really, that I had experienced and when I was on the stretcher, I was laid out. Then, there was excruciating pain in my chest.
At the time I was hit, strangely enough, I felt no sharp pain. It was as if someone had come up behind me with a doubled up fist and just hit me in the back right between the shoulder blades. It was that kind of a sensation.
I would have to volunteer the very, very strong opinion, I know much has been written, much has been discussed, I was being a participant, I can only give you my impressions, but I must say you, as I said to the Warren Commission, I do not believe, nor will I ever believe, that I was hit with the first bullet. I don't believe that. I heard the first shot. I reacted to the first shot and I was not hit with that bullet: Now, there's a great deal of speculation that the President and I were hit with the same bullet that might well, be, but it surely wasn't the first bullet and Nelly doesn't think it's the second bullet. I don't know, I didn't hear the second bullet. I felt the second bullet. We obviously weren't hit by the third bullet. I was down reclining in her lap at the time the third bullet hit.
Mr. CORNWELL. I am sorry, I didn't understand one statement. You said Mrs. Connally doesn't agree it was the second bullet or the same bullet?
Mr. CONNALLY. The second bullet.
Mrs. CONNALLY. That what?
Mr. CONNALLY. That hit me. That hit him and me--
Mrs. CONNALLY. No; I heard three shots, I had three reactions, three separate reactions. The first shot, then I looked and saw the President, the second shot, John, and third, all this matter all over us.
Mr. CORNWELL. So you agree that your recollection is it was the second shot that hit the Governor?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I know it was the second shot that hit the Governor.
Mr. CORNWELL. And, where you disagree is as to the possibility or the question of whether or not it was the same bullet that hit, is that accurate, in other words, the Governor has no knowledge on that subject matter, would that be accurate, since you didn't turn around to see the President, after the first noise, you don't know whether he was hit and Mrs. Connally's recollection is that she did turn and saw him hold his throat before you were hit, is that accurate?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I did.
Mr. CONNALLY. That is correct. I never saw him. I never saw Mrs. Kennedy after the shots were fired. I never saw either one of them, and I don't know when he was hit.
== UNQUOTE ==
== QUOTE ==
https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKconnally.htm
Eddie Barker: Do you believe, Governor Connally, that the first bullet could have missed, the second one hit both of you, and the third one hit President Kennedy?
John Connally: That's possible. That's possible. Now, the best witness I know doesn't believe that.
Eddie Barker: Who is the best witness you know?
John Connally: Nellie was there, and she saw it. She believes the first bullet hit him, because she saw him after he was hit. She thinks the second bullet hit me, and the third bullet hit him.
== UNQUOTE ==
Nellie hasn't turned to look back at the President by 223. She turned after Z223, but recalled herself turning sooner. What she saw is what the Z-film shows after the President emerges from behind the sign.
Do you believe the Governor was struck at Z285?
It appears John Connally chose not to disagree with his wife. Who can
blame him?
I don't. She can be seen a bit later in the interview standing right
beside the bed. It wouldn't have been a good look for the Governor to get
into an argument with his wife during the interview about what transpired
in those brief seconds the car was under fire. I believe - as he clarified
at a later date to Eddie Barker - she was the source of his statement
about the President slumping. And I think it's important to note that in
the initial interview cited by "Rusty Sites" that the Governor never said
he *saw* the President had slumped. He said only "the President had
slumped" - which has always been Nellie's view and that observation is
therefore not the Governor's direct observation but only hearsay from
Nellie being repeated by the Governor.
That's a good observation picking up on the nuance that JBC did not say he
saw the President had slumped. I had always assumed he had seen the
President slump but looking at it in that light, he clearly is not saying
Stop twisting words.
Connally did not say that he SAW JFK slump.
http://the-puzzle-palace.com/Connally.htm
He didn't say either one of those things. As Hank astutely pointed out, he
never used the word "saw".
So you think Connally used his psychic abilities and never saw anything.
I reject that.
He could have been told by Nellie what she saw and taken her at here word.
If she told him the same thing she told the WC, he would have been led to
believe JFK slumped after the first shot.
Post by Anthony Marsh
My point is that Connally did not see JFK slump. He saw that JFK had
slumped.
He couldn't have seen either one of those things until several seconds
after he had been shot because he didn't turn far enough before he had
been shot.
fALSE. Didn't you read my essay?
Connally did not have to wait until he was shot to react. He said he was
in the peocess of turning ehen he was hit. But he had turned his HEAD to
look back and saw that JFK had already been hit.
Stop misrepresenting the facts.
False. How about *YOU* "Stop misrepresenting the facts, Marsh?!


When JBC comes into view IMMEDIATELY upon reappearing from behind the
Stemmons sign, he is in the same, exact position he was in before he
disappeared behind the sign! JBC was not in the process of turning at all
and he didn't turn to look into the back seat compartment until well after
he was wounded. That's what the Zapruder film shows--do NOT try to deny
it!

He never flinched, never moved a muscle until both he and President
Kennedy were struck, and he and President Kennedy BOTH are violently
reacting to a shock to the system simultaneously, so don't bother to deny
that either! You need to learn to pay attention to what's happening in
the film--which you haven't done!

I remember a time when you kept saying that "JFK was clutching his
throat" or that "JFK's hands were at his throat" when the fact is, they
were never anywhere bear his throat. You didn't even know this until I
pointed it out to you when you were arguing the point with another poster
in here some time ago. So don't bereate the observations of someone else
in here when you can't even see exactly where President Kennedy's hands
are once they are thrown upwards from the damge to the nervous system.
Anthony Marsh
2021-01-06 20:15:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Barber
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John Corbett
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John Corbett
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John Corbett
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by John Corbett
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Rusty Sites
Post by John Corbett
The FBI determine that Zapruder's camera ran at an average speed of 18.3
frames per second. Rounding out to four decimal places that comes to an
average of .0546 seconds per frame. However, each frame is not exposed for
that length of time. Movie film is simply a string of rapid fire still
photos which require a continuous series of starts and stops with the
frame being exposed during the stops with no exposure being made while the
film advances to expose the next frame. I think I read a long time ago
that each frame is exposed for 60% of the .0546 seconds follow by a gap
of 40% of the .0546 seconds. I can't find a reference to confirm if that
is true or whether this is just a faulty memory. Assuming it is true and
again rounding out to four decimal places, that means a frame is exposed
for .0328 seconds and advanced for .0219 seconds during which the camera
is not recording the action. Because the bullets would require only a
couple milliseconds to pass through the bodies of JFK and JBC, that means
that either of the shots which struck JFK could have hit him during the
exposure of a frame or during the gap between frames. The head shot could
have struck either during the exposure of frame 313 or in the gap between
312 and 313 with frame 313 showing us only the aftermath of the strike. It
is less definite as to when the single bullet struck and if it did strike
during the exposure of a frame, we don't know if it struck early during
the exposure, late or somewhere in the middle. This makes it a bit more
difficult to determine precisely when the shot was fired and when it
struck. We are left to analyze clues to determine the best fit for those
clues. The clues we have are the bulging of the JBC's jacket, and the
jiggle of Zapruder's camera at frame 227. The jiggle from head shot
occurred about 7 frames after the shot was fired. Since Zapruder was a
constant distance from the rifle, we could expect a similar amount of
frames between the shot being fired and the jiggle. That would indicate
the single bullet shot was likely fired during Z220 or the gap before or
after the exposure of that frame striking a couple frames later. The
bulging of JBC's jacket at Z224 happened after the bullet passed through
it. What we aren't sure of is how much of lag there was between the bullet
passing through and the jacket bulging. It seems to indicate a strike
about 223. The simultaneous reaction by JFK and JBC at 226 would have
occurred roughly 3-4 frames after the bullet passed through them. That
reaction could have begun in the 225-226 gap, late in the exposure of 226
or somewhere in between. What we are left with are three approximations
and it seems to me the best fit for all three of these approximations
would be the bullet strike either in the gap between 222-223 or early in
the 223 exposure.
Determining the precise instant of the single bullet strike is not
necessary for proving the validity of the SBT but it needs to be shown
that there is a plausible time frame for when that bullet struck. It think
the above analysis accomplishes that. In 1964 the WC gave us a range of
210-225 for when the single bullet could have struck. Given the advantage
of time and better technology, I think we can establish a much tighter
time frame for when that bullet struck.
I would be interested to see how others analyze these clues.
Here are some clues which I think are important for determining when
Connally was hit.
1) Everything Connally did after he came out from behind the sign was to
see JFK or see him better until he abruptly falls back about 285,
starts rolling his head back and forth, and doesn't try to see JFK
anymore. Perhaps you find some small event between 222 and 230 that you
think shows he is hit but after that you have 3-4 seconds where
Connally does not appear to be behaving as if he is hit and certainly
not like he has shattered ribs. How does that not strongly argue
against him being hit when you think he was? One of my guiding
principles is, once they're hit, they stay hit. Another clue is that,
in his hospital interview, Connally said he turned and saw JFK was
slumped before he was hit.
That's not true. He didn't say he saw the President was slumped. He said
"the President had slumped". In his testimony before both the Warren
Commission and the HSCA, he explained he never saw the President during
the shooting or thereafter. Nellie saw the President, and it was her
testimony the President appeared to be hit by the first shot. And that's
when the President slumped.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/conn_n.htm
== QUOTE ==
Mrs. CONNALLY. In fact the receptions had been. so good every place that I
had showed much restraint by not mentioning something about it before I
could resist no longer. When we got past this area I did turn to the
President and said, "Mr. President, you can't say Dallas doesn't love
you." Then I don't know how soon, it seems to me it was very soon, that I
heard a noise, and not being an expert rifleman, I was not aware that it
was a rifle. It was just a frightening noise, and it came from the right.
I turned over my right shoulder and looked back, and saw the President as
he had both hands at his neck.
Mr. SPECTER. And you are indicating with your own hands, two hands
crossing over gripping your own neck?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes; and it seemed to me there was--he made no utterance,
no cry. I saw no blood, no anything. It was just sort of nothing, the
expression on his face, and he just sort of slumped down.
Then very soon there was the second shot that hit John. As the first shot
was hit, and I turned to look at the same time, I recall John saying, "Oh,
no, no, no." Then there was a second shot, and it hit John, and as he
recoiled to the right, just crumpled like a wounded animal to the right,
he said, "My God, they are going to kill us all."
== UNQUOTE ==
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/conn_j.htm
== QUOTE ==
Governor CONNALLY. We had--we had gone, I guess, 150 feet, maybe 200 feet, I don't recall how far it was, heading down to get on the freeway, the Stemmons Freeway, to go out to the hall where we were going to have lunch and, as I say, the crowds had begun to thin, and we could--I was anticipating that we were going to be at the hall in approximately 5 minutes from the time we turned on Elm Street.
We had just made the turn, well, when I heard what I thought was a shot. I heard this noise which I immediately took to be a rifle shot. I instinctively turned to my right because the sound appeared to come from over my right
shoulder, so I turned to look back over my right shoulder, and I saw nothing unusual except just people in the crowd, but I did not catch the President in the corner of my eye, and I was interested, because once I heard the shot in my own mind I identified it as a rifle shot, and I immediately--the only thought that crossed my mind was that this is an assassination attempt.
So I looked, failing to see him, I was turning to look back over my left shoulder into the back seat, but I never got that far in my turn. I got about in the position I am in now facing you, looking a little bit to the left of center, and then I felt like someone had hit me in the back.
...
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any reaction by President Kennedy after the shooting?
Governor CONNALLY. No; I did not see him.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any reaction by Mrs. Kennedy after the shooting?
Governor CONNALLY. I did not see her. This almost sounds incredible, I am sure, since we were in the car with them. But again I will repeat very briefly when what I believe to be the shot first occurred, I turned to my right, which was away from both of them, of course, and looked out and could see neither, and then as I was turning to look into the back seat where I would have seen both of them, I was hit, so I never completed the turn at all, and I never saw either one of them after the firing started, and, of course, as I have testified, then Mrs. Connally pulled me over into her lap and I was facing forward with my head slightly turned up to where I could see the driver and Roy Kellerman on his right, but I could not see into the back seat, so I didn't see either one of them.
== UNQUOTE ==
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/hscacon.htm
== QUOTE ==
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. Cornwell, we had just turned to Elm. We had gone, I suspect, oh, 150, 200 feet when I heard what I thought was a rifle shot and I thought it came from--I was seated right, as you know, the jump seat right in front of the President, and they have a fairly straight back on them so I was sitting up fairly erect. I thought the shot came from back over my right shoulder, so I turned to see if I could catch a sight of the President out of the corner of my eye because I immediately had, frankly, had fear of an assassination because I thought it was a rifle shot.
I didn't think it was a blowout or explosion of any kind. I didn't see the President out of the corner of my eye, so I was in the process of, at least I was turning to look over my left shoulder into the back seat to see if I could see him. I never looked, I never made the full turn. About the time I turned back where I was facing more or less straight ahead, the way the car was moving, I was hit. I was knocked over, just doubled over by the force of the bullet. It went in my back and came out my chest about 2 inches below and the left of my right nipple. The force of the bullet drove my body over almost double and when I looked, immediately I could see I was just drenched with blood. So, I knew I had been badly hit and I more or less straightened up. At about this time, Nelly reached over and pulled me down into her lap.
I was in her lap facing forward when another shot was fired. I only heard two shots. I did not hear the shot that hit me. I wasn't conscious of it. I am sure I heard it, but I was not conscious of it at all. I heard another shot. I heard it hit. It hit with a very pronounced impact, just [slap of hands] almost like that. Almost that loud a sound; it made a very, very strong sound.
Immediately, I could see blood and brain tissue all over the interior of the car and all over our clothes. We were both covered with brain tissue, and there were pieces of brain tissue as big as your little finger. It was something that was unmistakable. There was no question in my mind about what it was.
About this moment in time, Roy Kellerman, who was the Secret Service agent sitting in the right-front seat, pushed, apparently was pushing some buttons on the panel, doing what, I don't know. I heard him say, "Let's get out of here fast," and the car lurched forward then. Bill Greer was the driver. He accelerated it tremendously.
When I was hit, or shortly before I was hit--no, I guess it was after I was hit--I said first, just almost in despair, I said, "no, no, no, just thinking how tragic it was that we had gone through this 24 hours, it had all been so wonderful and so beautifully executed. The President had been so marvelously received and then here, at the last moment this great tragedy. I just said, "no, no, no, no".
Then I said right after I was hit, I said, "My God, they are going to kill us all." ....
The shots came, in my judgment, the two shots I heard came from the same direction, back over my right shoulder, came from behind us. Very clear to me where they came from. I don't think any shots came from any other direction. I was conscious until we hit the Stemmons Freeway and then I faded into unconsciousness.
I revived when the car came to a stop at what was Parkland Hospital. Apparently, the braking of the car--we must have been traveling at an enormous rate of speed--the braking of the car brought me back to consciousness and you know it is strange what thoughts run through your mind.
The first thought that occurred to me was that I was in the jump seat, that the right door of the car was opposite my seat and that they couldn't reach the President. Well, I got out of the way and that is when I tried to raise myself up out of Nelly's lap and actually tried to get out of the car myself, so that they could get to him in the back seat.
I knew he was hit. I knew their first concern would be for the President. So, that was the reason why I lurched up, or tried to get up out of a reclining position. Of course, I couldn't. I wasn't able to. I got halfway up and just slumped again, as Nelly just told you. Then, someone did pick me up and put me on a stretcher and took me into an emergency room or trauma room, whatever it was.
I obviously didn't know what it was. At that point, I felt the first pain, really, that I had experienced and when I was on the stretcher, I was laid out. Then, there was excruciating pain in my chest.
At the time I was hit, strangely enough, I felt no sharp pain. It was as if someone had come up behind me with a doubled up fist and just hit me in the back right between the shoulder blades. It was that kind of a sensation.
I would have to volunteer the very, very strong opinion, I know much has been written, much has been discussed, I was being a participant, I can only give you my impressions, but I must say you, as I said to the Warren Commission, I do not believe, nor will I ever believe, that I was hit with the first bullet. I don't believe that. I heard the first shot. I reacted to the first shot and I was not hit with that bullet: Now, there's a great deal of speculation that the President and I were hit with the same bullet that might well, be, but it surely wasn't the first bullet and Nelly doesn't think it's the second bullet. I don't know, I didn't hear the second bullet. I felt the second bullet. We obviously weren't hit by the third bullet. I was down reclining in her lap at the time the third bullet hit.
Mr. CORNWELL. I am sorry, I didn't understand one statement. You said Mrs. Connally doesn't agree it was the second bullet or the same bullet?
Mr. CONNALLY. The second bullet.
Mrs. CONNALLY. That what?
Mr. CONNALLY. That hit me. That hit him and me--
Mrs. CONNALLY. No; I heard three shots, I had three reactions, three separate reactions. The first shot, then I looked and saw the President, the second shot, John, and third, all this matter all over us.
Mr. CORNWELL. So you agree that your recollection is it was the second shot that hit the Governor?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I know it was the second shot that hit the Governor.
Mr. CORNWELL. And, where you disagree is as to the possibility or the question of whether or not it was the same bullet that hit, is that accurate, in other words, the Governor has no knowledge on that subject matter, would that be accurate, since you didn't turn around to see the President, after the first noise, you don't know whether he was hit and Mrs. Connally's recollection is that she did turn and saw him hold his throat before you were hit, is that accurate?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I did.
Mr. CONNALLY. That is correct. I never saw him. I never saw Mrs. Kennedy after the shots were fired. I never saw either one of them, and I don't know when he was hit.
== UNQUOTE ==
== QUOTE ==
https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKconnally.htm
Eddie Barker: Do you believe, Governor Connally, that the first bullet could have missed, the second one hit both of you, and the third one hit President Kennedy?
John Connally: That's possible. That's possible. Now, the best witness I know doesn't believe that.
Eddie Barker: Who is the best witness you know?
John Connally: Nellie was there, and she saw it. She believes the first bullet hit him, because she saw him after he was hit. She thinks the second bullet hit me, and the third bullet hit him.
== UNQUOTE ==
Nellie hasn't turned to look back at the President by 223. She turned after Z223, but recalled herself turning sooner. What she saw is what the Z-film shows after the President emerges from behind the sign.
Do you believe the Governor was struck at Z285?
It appears John Connally chose not to disagree with his wife. Who can
blame him?
I don't. She can be seen a bit later in the interview standing right
beside the bed. It wouldn't have been a good look for the Governor to get
into an argument with his wife during the interview about what transpired
in those brief seconds the car was under fire. I believe - as he clarified
at a later date to Eddie Barker - she was the source of his statement
about the President slumping. And I think it's important to note that in
the initial interview cited by "Rusty Sites" that the Governor never said
he *saw* the President had slumped. He said only "the President had
slumped" - which has always been Nellie's view and that observation is
therefore not the Governor's direct observation but only hearsay from
Nellie being repeated by the Governor.
That's a good observation picking up on the nuance that JBC did not say he
saw the President had slumped. I had always assumed he had seen the
President slump but looking at it in that light, he clearly is not saying
Stop twisting words.
Connally did not say that he SAW JFK slump.
http://the-puzzle-palace.com/Connally.htm
He didn't say either one of those things. As Hank astutely pointed out, he
never used the word "saw".
So you think Connally used his psychic abilities and never saw anything.
I reject that.
He could have been told by Nellie what she saw and taken her at here word.
If she told him the same thing she told the WC, he would have been led to
believe JFK slumped after the first shot.
Post by Anthony Marsh
My point is that Connally did not see JFK slump. He saw that JFK had
slumped.
He couldn't have seen either one of those things until several seconds
after he had been shot because he didn't turn far enough before he had
been shot.
fALSE. Didn't you read my essay?
Connally did not have to wait until he was shot to react. He said he was
in the peocess of turning ehen he was hit. But he had turned his HEAD to
look back and saw that JFK had already been hit.
Stop misrepresenting the facts.
False. How about *YOU* "Stop misrepresenting the facts, Marsh?!
Baloney. I post things that you never bothered to read.
Post by Steve Barber
When JBC comes into view IMMEDIATELY upon reappearing from behind the
Stemmons sign, he is in the same, exact position he was in before he
NOT EXACTLY. bUT IF YOU MEAN HE WAS NOT HIT BEFORE FRAME 222, I AGREE.
tHAT NEGATES THE HSCA's SBT which they placed at frame 180. Happy now?
Post by Steve Barber
disappeared behind the sign! JBC was not in the process of turning at all
and he didn't turn to look into the back seat compartment until well after
he was wounded. That's what the Zapruder film shows--do NOT try to deny
it!
He never flinched, never moved a muscle until both he and President
Kennedy were struck, and he and President Kennedy BOTH are violently
That is false. He reacted to the shot which hit JFK. JFK did not slump for
fun. He slumped because he wass shot. Connally turned his head and SAW
that JFK was slumped, then he was hit. Are you calling Connally a liar? He
was there, you were not.
Post by Steve Barber
reacting to a shock to the system simultaneously, so don't bother to deny
that either! You need to learn to pay attention to what's happening in
the film--which you haven't done!
They were not shot simultaneously.
Connally said JFK eas hit first and then he was hit after that.
Post by Steve Barber
I remember a time when you kept saying that "JFK was clutching his
throat" or that "JFK's hands were at his throat" when the fact is, they
He did not actually touch his throat. His arms went up and his hands
went up to his throat. This is a reflex reaction to being shot.
Post by Steve Barber
were never anywhere bear his throat. You didn't even know this until I
pointed it out to you when you were arguing the point with another poster
in here some time ago. So don't bereate the observations of someone else
in here when you can't even see exactly where President Kennedy's hands
are once they are thrown upwards from the damge to the nervous system.
I think in all thst mumbojumbo you accidentally said what I have been
saying all this time. But there is more. You did not talk to Dr. Baden,
I did. You are not a researcher. I am. Doctor Baden confirmed that the
bulllet HIT the T-1 vertebra and fractured it. Just next to that vertebra
is a nerve which was excited by the bullet strike. That nerve goes up to
the arms. That caused his arms to fly up. His reaction was not a
voltary movemwent. It was a reflex. Did you doctor ever test your
reflexes by tapping your knew with a rubber hammer? That excites the
nerve in the leg which causes your leg to fly up.
If you've never had a doctor before, find a friend to do it so that you
can see for yourself how it works. The body does not sit around
thinking about it fot minutes. It has to be an instant reaction.

John Corbett
2021-01-05 01:03:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by John Corbett
It appears John Connally chose not to disagree with his wife. Who can
blame him?
I don't. She can be seen a bit later in the interview standing right
beside the bed.
I've been giving this a little more thought. I'm betting that much of what
happened after he was hit was a blurry memory to Connally. I believe he
even passed out on the way to Parkland. There he was rushed into emergency
surgery to first save his life, then repair the damage to his wrist. No
doubt when he came to post surgery he was still a little groggy. I would
bet that Nellie was then brought in if she wasn't already there. I'm just
guessing at this but I would bet one of the first things he would have
asked her is "What happened". She would have told him what she saw from
her perspective and that might have influenced his memories of the event.
I'm just speculating of course, but it seems reasonable something along
these lines could have been what happened.
John McAdams
2021-01-05 01:18:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Corbett
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by John Corbett
It appears John Connally chose not to disagree with his wife. Who can
blame him?
I don't. She can be seen a bit later in the interview standing right
beside the bed.
I've been giving this a little more thought. I'm betting that much of what
happened after he was hit was a blurry memory to Connally. I believe he
even passed out on the way to Parkland. There he was rushed into emergency
surgery to first save his life, then repair the damage to his wrist. No
doubt when he came to post surgery he was still a little groggy. I would
bet that Nellie was then brought in if she wasn't already there. I'm just
guessing at this but I would bet one of the first things he would have
asked her is "What happened". She would have told him what she saw from
her perspective and that might have influenced his memories of the event.
I'm just speculating of course, but it seems reasonable something along
these lines could have been what happened.
Connally was always clear that his own perceptions were consistent
with the Single Bullet Theory.

But he said "the best witness I know" rejected it.

His interview in the 1967 CBS documentary:

https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/video/Connally_SBT.mp4

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
John Corbett
2021-01-05 15:20:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by John McAdams
Post by John Corbett
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by John Corbett
It appears John Connally chose not to disagree with his wife. Who can
blame him?
I don't. She can be seen a bit later in the interview standing right
beside the bed.
I've been giving this a little more thought. I'm betting that much of what
happened after he was hit was a blurry memory to Connally. I believe he
even passed out on the way to Parkland. There he was rushed into emergency
surgery to first save his life, then repair the damage to his wrist. No
doubt when he came to post surgery he was still a little groggy. I would
bet that Nellie was then brought in if she wasn't already there. I'm just
guessing at this but I would bet one of the first things he would have
asked her is "What happened". She would have told him what she saw from
her perspective and that might have influenced his memories of the event.
I'm just speculating of course, but it seems reasonable something along
these lines could have been what happened.
Connally was always clear that his own perceptions were consistent
with the Single Bullet Theory.
But he said "the best witness I know" rejected it.
https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/video/Connally_SBT.mp4
His final statement in the video says it all. If there was a single
bullet, it had to be the second shot. He is right about that because that
is what happened. Nellie is simply wrong that the first shot hit JFK. She
is apparently one of a number of people, including Jackie and Clint Hill,
who didn't recognize the first blast as a gun shot. This interview also
makes it clear that he is relying very much on Nellie's memory to explain
what happened. He only know he was hit by the second shot. He has no first
hand knowledge as to which shot hit JFK.
Anthony Marsh
2021-01-06 06:05:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Corbett
Post by John McAdams
Post by John Corbett
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by John Corbett
It appears John Connally chose not to disagree with his wife. Who can
blame him?
I don't. She can be seen a bit later in the interview standing right
beside the bed.
I've been giving this a little more thought. I'm betting that much of what
happened after he was hit was a blurry memory to Connally. I believe he
even passed out on the way to Parkland. There he was rushed into emergency
surgery to first save his life, then repair the damage to his wrist. No
doubt when he came to post surgery he was still a little groggy. I would
bet that Nellie was then brought in if she wasn't already there. I'm just
guessing at this but I would bet one of the first things he would have
asked her is "What happened". She would have told him what she saw from
her perspective and that might have influenced his memories of the event.
I'm just speculating of course, but it seems reasonable something along
these lines could have been what happened.
Connally was always clear that his own perceptions were consistent
with the Single Bullet Theory.
But he said "the best witness I know" rejected it.
https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/video/Connally_SBT.mp4
His final statement in the video says it all. If there was a single
So you never bothered to read his book. Oh, that's eight, you can't be
bothered to do research.
Post by John Corbett
bullet, it had to be the second shot. He is right about that because that
Ok, so when is your SBT? Got a frame number, diagram, guesss?
Post by John Corbett
is what happened. Nellie is simply wrong that the first shot hit JFK. She
How rude, calling Nellie wrong. She there, you weren't.
Post by John Corbett
is apparently one of a number of people, including Jackie and Clint Hill,
who didn't recognize the first blast as a gun shot. This interview also
Oh, you mean the motorcycle backfire?
Baybe it was our very own Big Fart.
Post by John Corbett
makes it clear that he is relying very much on Nellie's memory to explain
what happened. He only know he was hit by the second shot. He has no first
No, he explained what he did.
Post by John Corbett
hand knowledge as to which shot hit JFK.
Neither do you. KEEEP GUESSING.
John Corbett
2021-01-06 19:17:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John Corbett
Post by John McAdams
Post by John Corbett
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by John Corbett
It appears John Connally chose not to disagree with his wife. Who can
blame him?
I don't. She can be seen a bit later in the interview standing right
beside the bed.
I've been giving this a little more thought. I'm betting that much of what
happened after he was hit was a blurry memory to Connally. I believe he
even passed out on the way to Parkland. There he was rushed into emergency
surgery to first save his life, then repair the damage to his wrist. No
doubt when he came to post surgery he was still a little groggy. I would
bet that Nellie was then brought in if she wasn't already there. I'm just
guessing at this but I would bet one of the first things he would have
asked her is "What happened". She would have told him what she saw from
her perspective and that might have influenced his memories of the event.
I'm just speculating of course, but it seems reasonable something along
these lines could have been what happened.
Connally was always clear that his own perceptions were consistent
with the Single Bullet Theory.
But he said "the best witness I know" rejected it.
https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/video/Connally_SBT.mp4
His final statement in the video says it all. If there was a single
So you never bothered to read his book. Oh, that's eight, you can't be
bothered to do research.
So you think it is necessary to read every book ever written about the JFK
assassination in order to be informed about it? Strange.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John Corbett
bullet, it had to be the second shot. He is right about that because that
Ok, so when is your SBT? Got a frame number, diagram, guesss?
Here's my turn to say "Learn to google". Since you don't remember the
previous three dozen times I've explained it to you, what good is telling
you again?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John Corbett
is what happened. Nellie is simply wrong that the first shot hit JFK. She
How rude, calling Nellie wrong. She there, you weren't.
This is the same guy who says never rely on witnesses.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John Corbett
is apparently one of a number of people, including Jackie and Clint Hill,
who didn't recognize the first blast as a gun shot. This interview also
Oh, you mean the motorcycle backfire?
That's what Jackie suggested in her WC testimony.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Baybe it was our very own Big Fart.
It wouldn't be an authentic Marsh post without at lease one inane comment
like the one above.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John Corbett
makes it clear that he is relying very much on Nellie's memory to explain
what happened. He only know he was hit by the second shot. He has no first
No, he explained what he did.
He explained what he knew first hand and that doesn't preclude both JFK
and him being hit by the second shot.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John Corbett
hand knowledge as to which shot hit JFK.
Neither do you. KEEEP GUESSING.
I don't need to guess. I was told what happened by a witness who was
there. Zapruder's camera. I know that witness got it right. That witness
told me JFK and JBC reacted at the same instant to being shot.
Anthony Marsh
2021-01-06 06:05:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by John McAdams
Post by John Corbett
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by John Corbett
It appears John Connally chose not to disagree with his wife. Who can
blame him?
I don't. She can be seen a bit later in the interview standing right
beside the bed.
I've been giving this a little more thought. I'm betting that much of what
happened after he was hit was a blurry memory to Connally. I believe he
even passed out on the way to Parkland. There he was rushed into emergency
surgery to first save his life, then repair the damage to his wrist. No
doubt when he came to post surgery he was still a little groggy. I would
bet that Nellie was then brought in if she wasn't already there. I'm just
guessing at this but I would bet one of the first things he would have
asked her is "What happened". She would have told him what she saw from
her perspective and that might have influenced his memories of the event.
I'm just speculating of course, but it seems reasonable something along
these lines could have been what happened.
Connally was always clear that his own perceptions were consistent
with the Single Bullet Theory.
That is not tue. He never accepted the Single Bullet Theory.
Post by John McAdams
But he said "the best witness I know" rejected it.
https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/video/Connally_SBT.mp4
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Anthony Marsh
2021-01-05 20:07:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Corbett
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by John Corbett
It appears John Connally chose not to disagree with his wife. Who can
blame him?
I don't. She can be seen a bit later in the interview standing right
beside the bed.
I've been giving this a little more thought. I'm betting that much of what
happened after he was hit was a blurry memory to Connally. I believe he
even passed out on the way to Parkland. There he was rushed into emergency
surgery to first save his life, then repair the damage to his wrist. No
Jeez, you think he was hurt of something?
Have YOU ever been shot? Maybe you think that when you are shot you
don't feel it?
Post by John Corbett
doubt when he came to post surgery he was still a little groggy. I would
I like that. So dismiss what the victim says because he is "groggy."
That's more polite than calling him a liar.
Post by John Corbett
bet that Nellie was then brought in if she wasn't already there. I'm
just guessing at this but I would bet one of the first things he would
have asked her is "What happened". She would have told him what she saw
from her perspective and that might have influenced his memories of the
event. I'm just speculating of course, but it seems reasonable something
along these lines could have been what happened.
So you never saw the video of Connally in bed?
You never read the interview with the reporter. Maybe he was still
"groggy" years later. Yeah, that's it!
They called him Big Groggy John.
John Corbett
2021-01-03 02:51:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Rusty Sites
Post by John Corbett
The FBI determine that Zapruder's camera ran at an average speed of 18.3
frames per second. Rounding out to four decimal places that comes to an
average of .0546 seconds per frame. However, each frame is not exposed for
that length of time. Movie film is simply a string of rapid fire still
photos which require a continuous series of starts and stops with the
frame being exposed during the stops with no exposure being made while the
film advances to expose the next frame. I think I read a long time ago
that each frame is exposed for 60% of the .0546 seconds follow by a gap
of 40% of the .0546 seconds. I can't find a reference to confirm if that
is true or whether this is just a faulty memory. Assuming it is true and
again rounding out to four decimal places, that means a frame is exposed
for .0328 seconds and advanced for .0219 seconds during which the camera
is not recording the action. Because the bullets would require only a
couple milliseconds to pass through the bodies of JFK and JBC, that means
that either of the shots which struck JFK could have hit him during the
exposure of a frame or during the gap between frames. The head shot could
have struck either during the exposure of frame 313 or in the gap between
312 and 313 with frame 313 showing us only the aftermath of the strike. It
is less definite as to when the single bullet struck and if it did strike
during the exposure of a frame, we don't know if it struck early during
the exposure, late or somewhere in the middle. This makes it a bit more
difficult to determine precisely when the shot was fired and when it
struck. We are left to analyze clues to determine the best fit for those
clues. The clues we have are the bulging of the JBC's jacket, and the
jiggle of Zapruder's camera at frame 227. The jiggle from head shot
occurred about 7 frames after the shot was fired. Since Zapruder was a
constant distance from the rifle, we could expect a similar amount of
frames between the shot being fired and the jiggle. That would indicate
the single bullet shot was likely fired during Z220 or the gap before or
after the exposure of that frame striking a couple frames later. The
bulging of JBC's jacket at Z224 happened after the bullet passed through
it. What we aren't sure of is how much of lag there was between the bullet
passing through and the jacket bulging. It seems to indicate a strike
about 223. The simultaneous reaction by JFK and JBC at 226 would have
occurred roughly 3-4 frames after the bullet passed through them. That
reaction could have begun in the 225-226 gap, late in the exposure of 226
or somewhere in between. What we are left with are three approximations
and it seems to me the best fit for all three of these approximations
would be the bullet strike either in the gap between 222-223 or early in
the 223 exposure.
Determining the precise instant of the single bullet strike is not
necessary for proving the validity of the SBT but it needs to be shown
that there is a plausible time frame for when that bullet struck. It think
the above analysis accomplishes that. In 1964 the WC gave us a range of
210-225 for when the single bullet could have struck. Given the advantage
of time and better technology, I think we can establish a much tighter
time frame for when that bullet struck.
I would be interested to see how others analyze these clues.
Here are some clues which I think are important for determining when
Connally was hit.
1) Everything Connally did after he came out from behind the sign was to
see JFK or see him better until he abruptly falls back about 285,
starts rolling his head back and forth, and doesn't try to see JFK
anymore. Perhaps you find some small event between 222 and 230 that you
think shows he is hit but after that you have 3-4 seconds where
Connally does not appear to be behaving as if he is hit and certainly
not like he has shattered ribs. How does that not strongly argue
against him being hit when you think he was? One of my guiding
principles is, once they're hit, they stay hit. Another clue is that,
in his hospital interview, Connally said he turned and saw JFK was
slumped before he was hit.
That's not true. He didn't say he saw the President was slumped. He said
"the President had slumped". In his testimony before both the Warren
Commission and the HSCA, he explained he never saw the President during
the shooting or thereafter. Nellie saw the President, and it was her
testimony the President appeared to be hit by the first shot. And that's
when the President slumped.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/conn_n.htm
== QUOTE ==
Mrs. CONNALLY. In fact the receptions had been. so good every place that I
had showed much restraint by not mentioning something about it before I
could resist no longer. When we got past this area I did turn to the
President and said, "Mr. President, you can't say Dallas doesn't love
you." Then I don't know how soon, it seems to me it was very soon, that I
heard a noise, and not being an expert rifleman, I was not aware that it
was a rifle. It was just a frightening noise, and it came from the right.
I turned over my right shoulder and looked back, and saw the President as
he had both hands at his neck.
Mr. SPECTER. And you are indicating with your own hands, two hands
crossing over gripping your own neck?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes; and it seemed to me there was--he made no utterance,
no cry. I saw no blood, no anything. It was just sort of nothing, the
expression on his face, and he just sort of slumped down.
Then very soon there was the second shot that hit John. As the first shot
was hit, and I turned to look at the same time, I recall John saying, "Oh,
no, no, no." Then there was a second shot, and it hit John, and as he
recoiled to the right, just crumpled like a wounded animal to the right,
he said, "My God, they are going to kill us all."
== UNQUOTE ==
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/conn_j.htm
== QUOTE ==
Governor CONNALLY. We had--we had gone, I guess, 150 feet, maybe 200 feet, I don't recall how far it was, heading down to get on the freeway, the Stemmons Freeway, to go out to the hall where we were going to have lunch and, as I say, the crowds had begun to thin, and we could--I was anticipating that we were going to be at the hall in approximately 5 minutes from the time we turned on Elm Street.
We had just made the turn, well, when I heard what I thought was a shot. I heard this noise which I immediately took to be a rifle shot. I instinctively turned to my right because the sound appeared to come from over my right
shoulder, so I turned to look back over my right shoulder, and I saw nothing unusual except just people in the crowd, but I did not catch the President in the corner of my eye, and I was interested, because once I heard the shot in my own mind I identified it as a rifle shot, and I immediately--the only thought that crossed my mind was that this is an assassination attempt.
So I looked, failing to see him, I was turning to look back over my left shoulder into the back seat, but I never got that far in my turn. I got about in the position I am in now facing you, looking a little bit to the left of center, and then I felt like someone had hit me in the back.
...
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any reaction by President Kennedy after the shooting?
Governor CONNALLY. No; I did not see him.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any reaction by Mrs. Kennedy after the shooting?
Governor CONNALLY. I did not see her. This almost sounds incredible, I am sure, since we were in the car with them. But again I will repeat very briefly when what I believe to be the shot first occurred, I turned to my right, which was away from both of them, of course, and looked out and could see neither, and then as I was turning to look into the back seat where I would have seen both of them, I was hit, so I never completed the turn at all, and I never saw either one of them after the firing started, and, of course, as I have testified, then Mrs. Connally pulled me over into her lap and I was facing forward with my head slightly turned up to where I could see the driver and Roy Kellerman on his right, but I could not see into the back seat, so I didn't see either one of them.
== UNQUOTE ==
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/hscacon.htm
== QUOTE ==
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. Cornwell, we had just turned to Elm. We had gone, I suspect, oh, 150, 200 feet when I heard what I thought was a rifle shot and I thought it came from--I was seated right, as you know, the jump seat right in front of the President, and they have a fairly straight back on them so I was sitting up fairly erect. I thought the shot came from back over my right shoulder, so I turned to see if I could catch a sight of the President out of the corner of my eye because I immediately had, frankly, had fear of an assassination because I thought it was a rifle shot.
I didn't think it was a blowout or explosion of any kind. I didn't see the President out of the corner of my eye, so I was in the process of, at least I was turning to look over my left shoulder into the back seat to see if I could see him. I never looked, I never made the full turn. About the time I turned back where I was facing more or less straight ahead, the way the car was moving, I was hit. I was knocked over, just doubled over by the force of the bullet. It went in my back and came out my chest about 2 inches below and the left of my right nipple. The force of the bullet drove my body over almost double and when I looked, immediately I could see I was just drenched with blood. So, I knew I had been badly hit and I more or less straightened up. At about this time, Nelly reached over and pulled me down into her lap.
I was in her lap facing forward when another shot was fired. I only heard two shots. I did not hear the shot that hit me. I wasn't conscious of it. I am sure I heard it, but I was not conscious of it at all. I heard another shot. I heard it hit. It hit with a very pronounced impact, just [slap of hands] almost like that. Almost that loud a sound; it made a very, very strong sound.
Immediately, I could see blood and brain tissue all over the interior of the car and all over our clothes. We were both covered with brain tissue, and there were pieces of brain tissue as big as your little finger. It was something that was unmistakable. There was no question in my mind about what it was.
About this moment in time, Roy Kellerman, who was the Secret Service agent sitting in the right-front seat, pushed, apparently was pushing some buttons on the panel, doing what, I don't know. I heard him say, "Let's get out of here fast," and the car lurched forward then. Bill Greer was the driver. He accelerated it tremendously.
When I was hit, or shortly before I was hit--no, I guess it was after I was hit--I said first, just almost in despair, I said, "no, no, no, just thinking how tragic it was that we had gone through this 24 hours, it had all been so wonderful and so beautifully executed. The President had been so marvelously received and then here, at the last moment this great tragedy. I just said, "no, no, no, no".
Then I said right after I was hit, I said, "My God, they are going to kill us all." ....
The shots came, in my judgment, the two shots I heard came from the same direction, back over my right shoulder, came from behind us. Very clear to me where they came from. I don't think any shots came from any other direction. I was conscious until we hit the Stemmons Freeway and then I faded into unconsciousness.
I revived when the car came to a stop at what was Parkland Hospital. Apparently, the braking of the car--we must have been traveling at an enormous rate of speed--the braking of the car brought me back to consciousness and you know it is strange what thoughts run through your mind.
The first thought that occurred to me was that I was in the jump seat, that the right door of the car was opposite my seat and that they couldn't reach the President. Well, I got out of the way and that is when I tried to raise myself up out of Nelly's lap and actually tried to get out of the car myself, so that they could get to him in the back seat.
I knew he was hit. I knew their first concern would be for the President. So, that was the reason why I lurched up, or tried to get up out of a reclining position. Of course, I couldn't. I wasn't able to. I got halfway up and just slumped again, as Nelly just told you. Then, someone did pick me up and put me on a stretcher and took me into an emergency room or trauma room, whatever it was.
I obviously didn't know what it was. At that point, I felt the first pain, really, that I had experienced and when I was on the stretcher, I was laid out. Then, there was excruciating pain in my chest.
At the time I was hit, strangely enough, I felt no sharp pain. It was as if someone had come up behind me with a doubled up fist and just hit me in the back right between the shoulder blades. It was that kind of a sensation.
I would have to volunteer the very, very strong opinion, I know much has been written, much has been discussed, I was being a participant, I can only give you my impressions, but I must say you, as I said to the Warren Commission, I do not believe, nor will I ever believe, that I was hit with the first bullet. I don't believe that. I heard the first shot. I reacted to the first shot and I was not hit with that bullet: Now, there's a great deal of speculation that the President and I were hit with the same bullet that might well, be, but it surely wasn't the first bullet and Nelly doesn't think it's the second bullet. I don't know, I didn't hear the second bullet. I felt the second bullet. We obviously weren't hit by the third bullet. I was down reclining in her lap at the time the third bullet hit.
Mr. CORNWELL. I am sorry, I didn't understand one statement. You said Mrs. Connally doesn't agree it was the second bullet or the same bullet?
Mr. CONNALLY. The second bullet.
Mrs. CONNALLY. That what?
Mr. CONNALLY. That hit me. That hit him and me--
Mrs. CONNALLY. No; I heard three shots, I had three reactions, three separate reactions. The first shot, then I looked and saw the President, the second shot, John, and third, all this matter all over us.
Mr. CORNWELL. So you agree that your recollection is it was the second shot that hit the Governor?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I know it was the second shot that hit the Governor.
Mr. CORNWELL. And, where you disagree is as to the possibility or the question of whether or not it was the same bullet that hit, is that accurate, in other words, the Governor has no knowledge on that subject matter, would that be accurate, since you didn't turn around to see the President, after the first noise, you don't know whether he was hit and Mrs. Connally's recollection is that she did turn and saw him hold his throat before you were hit, is that accurate?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I did.
Mr. CONNALLY. That is correct. I never saw him. I never saw Mrs. Kennedy after the shots were fired. I never saw either one of them, and I don't know when he was hit.
== UNQUOTE ==
== QUOTE ==
https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKconnally.htm
Eddie Barker: Do you believe, Governor Connally, that the first bullet could have missed, the second one hit both of you, and the third one hit President Kennedy?
John Connally: That's possible. That's possible. Now, the best witness I know doesn't believe that.
Eddie Barker: Who is the best witness you know?
John Connally: Nellie was there, and she saw it. She believes the first bullet hit him, because she saw him after he was hit. She thinks the second bullet hit me, and the third bullet hit him.
== UNQUOTE ==
Nellie hasn't turned to look back at the President by 223. She turned after Z223, but recalled herself turning sooner. What she saw is what the Z-film shows after the President emerges from behind the sign.
Do you believe the Governor was struck at Z285?
It seems most probable that Nellie was one of a number of people in the
motorcade who did not recognize the first last as a gunshot. She seems to
believe the second shot was the first shot and that's why she was of the
belief that JFK had been hit by the first shot. She apparently did not
notice that here husband had also been hit by that same shot. She did say
she heard JBC cry out after JFK had been shot but apparently believed
he had not been hit at that point.

"Then I don't know how soon, it seems to me it was very soon, that I heard
a noise, and not being an expert rifleman, I was not aware that it was a
rifle. It was just a frightening noise, and it came from the right. I
turned over my right shoulder and looked back, and saw the President as he
had both hands at his neck.
Mr. SPECTER. And you are indicating with your own hands, two hands
crossing over gripping your own neck?

Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes; and it seemed to me there was--he made no utterance,
no cry. I saw no blood, no anything. It was just sort of nothing, the
expression on his face, and he just sort of slumped down. Then very soon
there was the second shot that hit John. As the first shot was hit, and I
turned to look at the same time, I recall John saying, "Oh, no, no, no."
Then there was a second shot, and it hit John, and as he recoiled to the
right, just crumpled like a wounded animal to the right, he said, "My God,
they are going to kill us all."

It is clear she got the sequencing wrong. She remembered hearing two shots
where there had only been one. She thought there was an intervening shot
between JBC saying, "Oh, no, no, no." and "My God, they are going to kill
us all." and that was the shot that hit him. That did not happen. JBC had
said nothing prior to being hit.
Anthony Marsh
2021-01-03 17:51:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
Post by Rusty Sites
Post by John Corbett
The FBI determine that Zapruder's camera ran at an average speed of 18.3
frames per second. Rounding out to four decimal places that comes to an
average of .0546 seconds per frame. However, each frame is not exposed for
that length of time. Movie film is simply a string of rapid fire still
photos which require a continuous series of starts and stops with the
frame being exposed during the stops with no exposure being made while the
film advances to expose the next frame. I think I read a long time ago
that each frame is exposed for 60% of the .0546 seconds follow by a gap
of 40% of the .0546 seconds. I can't find a reference to confirm if that
is true or whether this is just a faulty memory. Assuming it is true and
again rounding out to four decimal places, that means a frame is exposed
for .0328 seconds and advanced for .0219 seconds during which the camera
is not recording the action. Because the bullets would require only a
couple milliseconds to pass through the bodies of JFK and JBC, that means
that either of the shots which struck JFK could have hit him during the
exposure of a frame or during the gap between frames. The head shot could
have struck either during the exposure of frame 313 or in the gap between
312 and 313 with frame 313 showing us only the aftermath of the strike. It
is less definite as to when the single bullet struck and if it did strike
during the exposure of a frame, we don't know if it struck early during
the exposure, late or somewhere in the middle. This makes it a bit more
difficult to determine precisely when the shot was fired and when it
struck. We are left to analyze clues to determine the best fit for those
clues. The clues we have are the bulging of the JBC's jacket, and the
jiggle of Zapruder's camera at frame 227. The jiggle from head shot
occurred about 7 frames after the shot was fired. Since Zapruder was a
constant distance from the rifle, we could expect a similar amount of
frames between the shot being fired and the jiggle. That would indicate
the single bullet shot was likely fired during Z220 or the gap before or
after the exposure of that frame striking a couple frames later. The
bulging of JBC's jacket at Z224 happened after the bullet passed through
it. What we aren't sure of is how much of lag there was between the bullet
passing through and the jacket bulging. It seems to indicate a strike
about 223. The simultaneous reaction by JFK and JBC at 226 would have
occurred roughly 3-4 frames after the bullet passed through them. That
reaction could have begun in the 225-226 gap, late in the exposure of 226
or somewhere in between. What we are left with are three approximations
and it seems to me the best fit for all three of these approximations
would be the bullet strike either in the gap between 222-223 or early in
the 223 exposure.
Determining the precise instant of the single bullet strike is not
necessary for proving the validity of the SBT but it needs to be shown
that there is a plausible time frame for when that bullet struck. It think
the above analysis accomplishes that. In 1964 the WC gave us a range of
210-225 for when the single bullet could have struck. Given the advantage
of time and better technology, I think we can establish a much tighter
time frame for when that bullet struck.
I would be interested to see how others analyze these clues.
Here are some clues which I think are important for determining when
Connally was hit.
1) Everything Connally did after he came out from behind the sign was to
see JFK or see him better until he abruptly falls back about 285,
starts rolling his head back and forth, and doesn't try to see JFK
anymore. Perhaps you find some small event between 222 and 230 that you
think shows he is hit but after that you have 3-4 seconds where
Connally does not appear to be behaving as if he is hit and certainly
not like he has shattered ribs. How does that not strongly argue
against him being hit when you think he was? One of my guiding
principles is, once they're hit, they stay hit. Another clue is that,
in his hospital interview, Connally said he turned and saw JFK was
slumped before he was hit.
That's not true. He didn't say he saw the President was slumped. He said
"the President had slumped". In his testimony before both the Warren
Commission and the HSCA, he explained he never saw the President during
the shooting or thereafter. Nellie saw the President, and it was her
testimony the President appeared to be hit by the first shot. And that's
when the President slumped.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/conn_n.htm
== QUOTE ==
Mrs. CONNALLY. In fact the receptions had been. so good every place that I
had showed much restraint by not mentioning something about it before I
could resist no longer. When we got past this area I did turn to the
President and said, "Mr. President, you can't say Dallas doesn't love
you." Then I don't know how soon, it seems to me it was very soon, that I
heard a noise, and not being an expert rifleman, I was not aware that it
was a rifle. It was just a frightening noise, and it came from the right.
I turned over my right shoulder and looked back, and saw the President as
he had both hands at his neck.
Mr. SPECTER. And you are indicating with your own hands, two hands
crossing over gripping your own neck?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes; and it seemed to me there was--he made no utterance,
no cry. I saw no blood, no anything. It was just sort of nothing, the
expression on his face, and he just sort of slumped down.
Then very soon there was the second shot that hit John. As the first shot
was hit, and I turned to look at the same time, I recall John saying, "Oh,
no, no, no." Then there was a second shot, and it hit John, and as he
recoiled to the right, just crumpled like a wounded animal to the right,
he said, "My God, they are going to kill us all."
== UNQUOTE ==
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/conn_j.htm
== QUOTE ==
Governor CONNALLY. We had--we had gone, I guess, 150 feet, maybe 200 feet, I don't recall how far it was, heading down to get on the freeway, the Stemmons Freeway, to go out to the hall where we were going to have lunch and, as I say, the crowds had begun to thin, and we could--I was anticipating that we were going to be at the hall in approximately 5 minutes from the time we turned on Elm Street.
We had just made the turn, well, when I heard what I thought was a shot. I heard this noise which I immediately took to be a rifle shot. I instinctively turned to my right because the sound appeared to come from over my right
shoulder, so I turned to look back over my right shoulder, and I saw nothing unusual except just people in the crowd, but I did not catch the President in the corner of my eye, and I was interested, because once I heard the shot in my own mind I identified it as a rifle shot, and I immediately--the only thought that crossed my mind was that this is an assassination attempt.
So I looked, failing to see him, I was turning to look back over my left shoulder into the back seat, but I never got that far in my turn. I got about in the position I am in now facing you, looking a little bit to the left of center, and then I felt like someone had hit me in the back.
...
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any reaction by President Kennedy after the shooting?
Governor CONNALLY. No; I did not see him.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any reaction by Mrs. Kennedy after the shooting?
Governor CONNALLY. I did not see her. This almost sounds incredible, I am sure, since we were in the car with them. But again I will repeat very briefly when what I believe to be the shot first occurred, I turned to my right, which was away from both of them, of course, and looked out and could see neither, and then as I was turning to look into the back seat where I would have seen both of them, I was hit, so I never completed the turn at all, and I never saw either one of them after the firing started, and, of course, as I have testified, then Mrs. Connally pulled me over into her lap and I was facing forward with my head slightly turned up to where I could see the driver and Roy Kellerman on his right, but I could not see into the back seat, so I didn't see either one of them.
== UNQUOTE ==
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/hscacon.htm
== QUOTE ==
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. Cornwell, we had just turned to Elm. We had gone, I suspect, oh, 150, 200 feet when I heard what I thought was a rifle shot and I thought it came from--I was seated right, as you know, the jump seat right in front of the President, and they have a fairly straight back on them so I was sitting up fairly erect. I thought the shot came from back over my right shoulder, so I turned to see if I could catch a sight of the President out of the corner of my eye because I immediately had, frankly, had fear of an assassination because I thought it was a rifle shot.
I didn't think it was a blowout or explosion of any kind. I didn't see the President out of the corner of my eye, so I was in the process of, at least I was turning to look over my left shoulder into the back seat to see if I could see him. I never looked, I never made the full turn. About the time I turned back where I was facing more or less straight ahead, the way the car was moving, I was hit. I was knocked over, just doubled over by the force of the bullet. It went in my back and came out my chest about 2 inches below and the left of my right nipple. The force of the bullet drove my body over almost double and when I looked, immediately I could see I was just drenched with blood. So, I knew I had been badly hit and I more or less straightened up. At about this time, Nelly reached over and pulled me down into her lap.
I was in her lap facing forward when another shot was fired. I only heard two shots. I did not hear the shot that hit me. I wasn't conscious of it. I am sure I heard it, but I was not conscious of it at all. I heard another shot. I heard it hit. It hit with a very pronounced impact, just [slap of hands] almost like that. Almost that loud a sound; it made a very, very strong sound.
Immediately, I could see blood and brain tissue all over the interior of the car and all over our clothes. We were both covered with brain tissue, and there were pieces of brain tissue as big as your little finger. It was something that was unmistakable. There was no question in my mind about what it was.
About this moment in time, Roy Kellerman, who was the Secret Service agent sitting in the right-front seat, pushed, apparently was pushing some buttons on the panel, doing what, I don't know. I heard him say, "Let's get out of here fast," and the car lurched forward then. Bill Greer was the driver. He accelerated it tremendously.
When I was hit, or shortly before I was hit--no, I guess it was after I was hit--I said first, just almost in despair, I said, "no, no, no, just thinking how tragic it was that we had gone through this 24 hours, it had all been so wonderful and so beautifully executed. The President had been so marvelously received and then here, at the last moment this great tragedy. I just said, "no, no, no, no".
Then I said right after I was hit, I said, "My God, they are going to kill us all." ....
The shots came, in my judgment, the two shots I heard came from the same direction, back over my right shoulder, came from behind us. Very clear to me where they came from. I don't think any shots came from any other direction. I was conscious until we hit the Stemmons Freeway and then I faded into unconsciousness.
I revived when the car came to a stop at what was Parkland Hospital. Apparently, the braking of the car--we must have been traveling at an enormous rate of speed--the braking of the car brought me back to consciousness and you know it is strange what thoughts run through your mind.
The first thought that occurred to me was that I was in the jump seat, that the right door of the car was opposite my seat and that they couldn't reach the President. Well, I got out of the way and that is when I tried to raise myself up out of Nelly's lap and actually tried to get out of the car myself, so that they could get to him in the back seat.
I knew he was hit. I knew their first concern would be for the President. So, that was the reason why I lurched up, or tried to get up out of a reclining position. Of course, I couldn't. I wasn't able to. I got halfway up and just slumped again, as Nelly just told you. Then, someone did pick me up and put me on a stretcher and took me into an emergency room or trauma room, whatever it was.
I obviously didn't know what it was. At that point, I felt the first pain, really, that I had experienced and when I was on the stretcher, I was laid out. Then, there was excruciating pain in my chest.
At the time I was hit, strangely enough, I felt no sharp pain. It was as if someone had come up behind me with a doubled up fist and just hit me in the back right between the shoulder blades. It was that kind of a sensation.
I would have to volunteer the very, very strong opinion, I know much has been written, much has been discussed, I was being a participant, I can only give you my impressions, but I must say you, as I said to the Warren Commission, I do not believe, nor will I ever believe, that I was hit with the first bullet. I don't believe that. I heard the first shot. I reacted to the first shot and I was not hit with that bullet: Now, there's a great deal of speculation that the President and I were hit with the same bullet that might well, be, but it surely wasn't the first bullet and Nelly doesn't think it's the second bullet. I don't know, I didn't hear the second bullet. I felt the second bullet. We obviously weren't hit by the third bullet. I was down reclining in her lap at the time the third bullet hit.
Mr. CORNWELL. I am sorry, I didn't understand one statement. You said Mrs. Connally doesn't agree it was the second bullet or the same bullet?
Mr. CONNALLY. The second bullet.
Mrs. CONNALLY. That what?
Mr. CONNALLY. That hit me. That hit him and me--
Mrs. CONNALLY. No; I heard three shots, I had three reactions, three separate reactions. The first shot, then I looked and saw the President, the second shot, John, and third, all this matter all over us.
Mr. CORNWELL. So you agree that your recollection is it was the second shot that hit the Governor?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I know it was the second shot that hit the Governor.
Mr. CORNWELL. And, where you disagree is as to the possibility or the question of whether or not it was the same bullet that hit, is that accurate, in other words, the Governor has no knowledge on that subject matter, would that be accurate, since you didn't turn around to see the President, after the first noise, you don't know whether he was hit and Mrs. Connally's recollection is that she did turn and saw him hold his throat before you were hit, is that accurate?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I did.
Mr. CONNALLY. That is correct. I never saw him. I never saw Mrs. Kennedy after the shots were fired. I never saw either one of them, and I don't know when he was hit.
== UNQUOTE ==
== QUOTE ==
https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKconnally.htm
Eddie Barker: Do you believe, Governor Connally, that the first bullet could have missed, the second one hit both of you, and the third one hit President Kennedy?
John Connally: That's possible. That's possible. Now, the best witness I know doesn't believe that.
Eddie Barker: Who is the best witness you know?
John Connally: Nellie was there, and she saw it. She believes the first bullet hit him, because she saw him after he was hit. She thinks the second bullet hit me, and the third bullet hit him.
== UNQUOTE ==
Nellie hasn't turned to look back at the President by 223. She turned after Z223, but recalled herself turning sooner. What she saw is what the Z-film shows after the President emerges from behind the sign.
Do you believe the Governor was struck at Z285?
Hank
Not in the back. Maybe in the wrist.
Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)
2021-01-02 20:41:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rusty Sites
Post by John Corbett
The FBI determine that Zapruder's camera ran at an average speed of 18.3
frames per second. Rounding out to four decimal places that comes to an
average of .0546 seconds per frame. However, each frame is not exposed for
that length of time. Movie film is simply a string of rapid fire still
photos which require a continuous series of starts and stops with the
frame being exposed during the stops with no exposure being made while the
film advances to expose the next frame. I think I read a long time ago
that each frame is exposed for 60% of the .0546 seconds follow by a gap
of 40% of the .0546 seconds. I can't find a reference to confirm if that
is true or whether this is just a faulty memory. Assuming it is true and
again rounding out to four decimal places, that means a frame is exposed
for .0328 seconds and advanced for .0219 seconds during which the camera
is not recording the action. Because the bullets would require only a
couple milliseconds to pass through the bodies of JFK and JBC, that means
that either of the shots which struck JFK could have hit him during the
exposure of a frame or during the gap between frames. The head shot could
have struck either during the exposure of frame 313 or in the gap between
312 and 313 with frame 313 showing us only the aftermath of the strike. It
is less definite as to when the single bullet struck and if it did strike
during the exposure of a frame, we don't know if it struck early during
the exposure, late or somewhere in the middle. This makes it a bit more
difficult to determine precisely when the shot was fired and when it
struck. We are left to analyze clues to determine the best fit for those
clues. The clues we have are the bulging of the JBC's jacket, and the
jiggle of Zapruder's camera at frame 227. The jiggle from head shot
occurred about 7 frames after the shot was fired. Since Zapruder was a
constant distance from the rifle, we could expect a similar amount of
frames between the shot being fired and the jiggle. That would indicate
the single bullet shot was likely fired during Z220 or the gap before or
after the exposure of that frame striking a couple frames later. The
bulging of JBC's jacket at Z224 happened after the bullet passed through
it. What we aren't sure of is how much of lag there was between the bullet
passing through and the jacket bulging. It seems to indicate a strike
about 223. The simultaneous reaction by JFK and JBC at 226 would have
occurred roughly 3-4 frames after the bullet passed through them. That
reaction could have begun in the 225-226 gap, late in the exposure of 226
or somewhere in between. What we are left with are three approximations
and it seems to me the best fit for all three of these approximations
would be the bullet strike either in the gap between 222-223 or early in
the 223 exposure.
Determining the precise instant of the single bullet strike is not
necessary for proving the validity of the SBT but it needs to be shown
that there is a plausible time frame for when that bullet struck. It think
the above analysis accomplishes that. In 1964 the WC gave us a range of
210-225 for when the single bullet could have struck. Given the advantage
of time and better technology, I think we can establish a much tighter
time frame for when that bullet struck.
I would be interested to see how others analyze these clues.
Here are some clues which I think are important for determining when
Connally was hit.
1) Everything Connally did after he came out from behind the sign was to
see JFK or see him better until he abruptly falls back about 285,
starts rolling his head back and forth, and doesn't try to see JFK
anymore.
In your opinion. Not in the Governor's. I remind you he testified he felt
he was struck just after he emerged from the sign. There's really never
been a question about what the Governor thought. What happened is the
conspiracy authors suppressed certain passages in their books and stressed
others, leading to the American public thinking there was evidence of
conspiracy when there wasn't.

== QUOTE ==
Mr. SPECTER. I have just one other question, Governor. With respect to the films and the slides which you have viewed this morning, had you ever seen those pictures before this morning?
Governor CONNALLY. I had seen what purported to be a copy of the film when I was in the hospital in Dallas. I had not seen the slides.
Mr. SPECTER. And when do you think you were hit on those slides, Governor, or in what range of slides?
Governor CONNALLY. We took--you are talking about the number of the slides?
Mr. SPECTER. Yes.
Governor CONNALLY. As we looked at them this morning, and as you related the numbers to me, it appeared to me that I was hit in the range between 130 or 131, I don't remember precisely, up to 134, in that bracket.
Mr. SPECTER. May I suggest to you that it was 231?
Governor CONNALLY. Well, 231 and 234, then.
Mr. SPECTER. The series under our numbering system starts with a higher number when the car comes around the turn, so when you come out of the sign, which was----
Governor CONNALLY. It was just after we came out of the sign, for whatever that sequence of numbers was, and if it was 200, I correct my testimony. It was 231 to about 234. It was within that range.
== UNQUOTE ==
Post by Rusty Sites
Perhaps you find some small event between 222 and 230 that you
think shows he is hit but after that you have 3-4 seconds where
Connally does not appear to be behaving as if he is hit and certainly
not like he has shattered ribs.
In your opinion. Remind me of your medical credentials.
Post by Rusty Sites
How does that not strongly argue
against him being hit when you think he was? One of my guiding
principles is, once they're hit, they stay hit. Another clue is that,
in his hospital interview, Connally said he turned and saw JFK was
slumped before he was hit. It doesn't seem possible that Connally
could have seen JFK until well after 240.
2) Right after 285, both women move briskly towards their husbands and
become focused on them. The driver, who has been looking back since we
could first see him, turns to the front only to turn back around
shortly after that. It sure looks like something happened there.
3) Connally's wrist and hand can't be seen at 285. The camera has moved
up and nothing below his chin is visible. Shortly before that, they
are visible and at that time, he has his arm against his chest in about
the position to line up the entry wound on his wrist with the exit
wound on his chest. Dr. Gregory treated Connally's wrist wound after
others had treated his chest wound. He had no reason to connect the
chest wound with the wrist wound or to believe that the same bullet
caused both. He identified a wound on the palm as an exit wound even
though his characterization of it, a slit that did not gape, does not
sound at all like an exit wound. What Gregory was sure of was the
wrist wound was one of entrance. He inferred falsely that palm wound
must be the exit wound.
He inferred falsely? Remind me of your medical credentials. You're now
discounting the medical opinion of the doctor who treated John
Connally.
Post by Rusty Sites
There is a cleft in the heal of the hand that
leads right to the palm wound area. The hat would have been protecting
most of Connally's hand but there would have been a little path to the
palm. The exiting bullet and debris would have slammed into the radius
bone and splattered. Some piece went dowm that little path and cut
Connally's hand.
About that "jacket bulge". I think the history is that before
about 1998 nobody had anything but low quality frames. In some of those,
it really looked like the lapel was flipping over. Then much better
frames became available and it did not look like a lapel flip anymore.
Some were well trained to see a lapel flip and continued to see it that
way.
Others shifted to jacket bulge. Nobody seemed to consider that it might
be something else entirely. The only argument I have ever heard for the
explanation being some sort of clothing movement is, "What else could it
be?" There is definitely something else it could be.
Nobody seems to notice that in the "lapel flip" frames, 222 and
223, there is also a specular reflection coming from the handhold in front
of Connally that goes dark in 224 just like Connally's chest. In fact, on
close examination, the illumination of both the handhold and the chest go
through the same states in 222, 223, and 224. Dim, bright, then off. This
clip has frames 222-232.
http://joliraja.com/LapelFlip/MainAnimation/222-233.html
There are four images in the jpg below.
http://joliraja.com/LapelFlip/4HandholdSpecular.jpg
From left to right the crops are from a motorcade picture that shows the
handhold fairly well, and Zapruder frames 248, 223, and 222.
The handhold is a cylinder that is vertical at its base and then curves
around to the top part which is not truly horizontal but slopes up toward
the center of the limo. Here is a page on how sunlight is reflected off a
cylinder. If you go there, just use the > and < buttons and not "play" to
advance the slide show at the top. (If you don't know about the law of
reflection, you will probably need to find out. It's pretty simple.)
http://joliraja.com/CylinderReflect/CylinderReflect.html
To summarize the page, a cylinder is curved in two dimensions but straight
in the other. If the cylinder is in a vertical position, the straight
dimension is vertical and the surface normals are all horizontal. (I'm
not considering the top or bottom here) The horizontal component of an
incident ray contributes only to the horizontal component of the reflected
ray but the curvature of the cylinder reflects parallel rays in different
direction depending on where the ray strikes. The vertical component is
unchanged between the incident and reflected rays. A reflection of
sunlight from the cylinder can be seen over a wide range of horizontal
angles but in only one vertical direction. This means it is not really
possible to locate the source of a reflection horizontally but it can be
located precisely vertically if the orientation of the cylinder is known.
The sun was about 38 degrees above horizontal at the time of the
assassination so sunlight would have been reflected down at that same
angle from a vertical cylinder. The handhold is tilted about 3 degrees
with the slope of the road but that tilt makes light reflect a bit lower
in the horizontal direction of Zapruder. Zapruder's position is up at
about 5.5 degrees so it isn't close. The angle is off by more than 40
degrees. If the specular in 222 and 223 is coming from the vertical part
of the handhold then that light can't be coming directly from the sun.
The curved part, or corner for short, is curved in all three dimensions
so it sprays light over a wide range of angles in three dimensions. The
surface normals change a lot in a short distance so observers over a wide
range of positions see a reflection from what seems to be the same place.
Because the light is spread more widely, the reflection is not as bright
as from the vertical part. When the hat first becomes clearly visible in
frame 230, it is hiding the handhold but, shortly after that, there is no
specular on the handhold. It remains dark until 247 when a partially
formed version of the reflection seen in 248 appears. The reflection
remains virtually the same until the hand hold disappears below the frame
except when it is behind the lamp post and, after it appears for one frame
on the other side of the post, when it disappears for two frames while
Kellerman is leaning back.
That reflection is from the corner which is in Kellerman's shadow in
222-246. Either the car turned enough or Kellerman moved enough to move
Kellerman's shadow off the corner. Most of that can be seen here.
http://joliraja.com/Animations/Z263-305/263-305.html
The croppings of 222 and 223 are not very good but, in a side by side
comparison, the specular in those frames is lower, bigger, and brighter
than the one in 248 and lower in 222 than in 223. A very small change in
incidence angle would move the specular up or down the vertical part of
the handhold. The film is prone to "blooming" where bright spots are much
bigger in the image than in real life. This is caused by light moving
parallel to the film surface. A bigger bright spot is sometimes just a
brighter bright spot. Either way, the specular is quite bright in 222 and
223. My conclusion is that the specular in 222 and 223 is from the
vertical part of the handhold and thus the light could not have come
directly from the sun but must have been reflected from somewhere.
To be seen by Zapruder, the light would have to be traveling up in the
range of 7-8 degrees or 4-5 degrees in limo coordinates. If the light
came from the front and traveled more or less parallel to the side of the
car, it could pass between the window frame, which may have the weird
stripey thing on it, and the handhold with the specular, and illuminate
Connally's chest. The car turning would cause reflections to change and
move. If a curved surface was involved, it might not have to turn much.
The chrome at the base of the windshield seems like a good candidate for
the source but I have lost interest in trying to trace the path of the
reflection. The only relevance all this could have is that it might place
Connally about as far right as he could be.
That's really impressive but entirely wrong.

You're looking at Connally's hat, as another poster pointed out.

So you've got an theory that disagrees with what Connally said and what
his doctor said and what the Dealey Plaza witnesses said. And you confuse
Connally's hat with a reflection off the handhold.

Why should anyone find your argument convincing?

If I understand your argument correctly, the shot that wounded the
Governor could not have come from Oswald's weapon, and not even from the
Depository, but from some other tall building behind the limousine. No
witness put a shooter in another building.

You're obviously trying to back into a argument for conspiracy from all
your points.

Fine. Where's the weapon(s) that caused the Governor's wounds? How come no
witness saw or heard another shooter? Why are you a better source than
Connally for when he was struck? Why are you a better source than
Connally's doctor for the determination of the entrance and exit wound on
the Governor's wrist? Why are you conjecturing a shot there's no evidence
for whatsoever?

You've got the same problem Robert Harris has, in that you're talking
about an unseen assassin firing an unseen weapon with unheard shots and
causing damage nobody but you sees. There's only one difference between
your theory and the Robert Harris theory. Bob's theory is that the
supposed Z285 missed the limo, but caused everyone to duck. Your theory is
it hit the Governor.

Hank
Loading...