Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter

[donald willis]

Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter


On November 23rd, 1963, witness Bonnie Ray Williams told the FBI of a
"police officer [who] came up on the elevator and looked all around the
fifth floor".

In his Commission testimony the next year, he amended this to: "A
motorcycle policeman... came up.... He just came around, and around to the
elevator" (v3p180).

This policeman was Patrolman Marrion Baker: "I... went on... up the
stairways... either one or two floors.... I was looking around the
building at the time [depository manager Roy Truly] said, 'Let's take the
elevator', and I just followed him on around."

Besides the "to the elevator" amendment, Williams, before the Commission,
made two other significant changes to his FBI interview:

1) "[Williams] descended to the fifth floor, using the stairs...." (FBI"I
took the east elevator down [to the fifth floor]" (v3p171)

2) "Williams stated he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would
have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs...."
(FBI) "You cannot see anything coming down [the stairs] from that
position" (v3p1= 80)

Curiously, all three changes would move both a sixth-floor suspect and
Baker to the stairs.

Even more curiously, it would seem that no changes in Williams' FBI
interview had to be made, at all, in order to bring a sixth-floor shooter
and Truly together within the time-frame necessary to allow the former to
have been our shooter. The latter could have traveled down in the
elevator which Williams left behind. On the first floor, Baker and Truly
could have seen and heard said elevator coming and waited patiently for
it. Then, after an awkward moment,Truly vouches for the man, and that's
that. Right?

However, the ease with which Williams transformed the details of his story
suggests that NEITHER version of that story was true, that there was
actually no sixth-floor shooter, that there was no Stair Man, no Elevator
Man. The stair story need never have been invented, though it was well
and thoroughly "documented". If Williams did see Baker come up on the
elevator, well, that fortuitously fit the A story, the Elevator Man story.
But, for some reason, the Bright Boys behind the cover-up couldn't accept
the unexpected gift of serendipity.

They should have: The Williams changes to the story--beginning with his
11/22 affidavit and his 11/23 FBI interview and ending with his Commission
testimony--were too obvious, too obviously geared to the B story, the
Stair Man story. They were not haphazard changes. In fact, the Bright
Boys were going a little crazy stamping out elevator fires: Even in
Williams' 11/22/63 affidavit, the word "elevator" in "We took the elevator
[down] to the 4th floor" had to be changed, by Williams--at the
hearings--to "stairs" (v3p182). You know, just in case....

One wonders, in fact, why the Bright Boys thought it necessary, in the
first place--before the introduction of Baker into the mix--to have
Williams chart their shooter's escape route. Of course, yes, that did
make it look like Someone must have been up there, rather than No One....

Why they did not stick with the Elevator Man story is hard to fathom.
Perhaps the notion of an encounter between Oswald, Truly, and Baker at the
elevator, on the first floor, sounded a tad close for comfort to the
reports of an encounter in a room on the first floor (Kent Biffle, Dallas
Morning News 11/23/63) or in the vestibule at the first-floor entrance
(Harry Holmes [as per Oswald] v7p306).

At any rate, poor Williams was stuck with--at first--the story of Elevator
Man--then, at the hearings--with the story of Stair Man. And with the
spectacle of Patrolman Baker going in two different directions at the same
time: from/to the elevator.

dcw

[BOZ]

Post by donald willis
Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter
On November 23rd, 1963, witness Bonnie Ray Williams told the FBI of a
"police officer [who] came up on the elevator and looked all around the
fifth floor".
In his Commission testimony the next year, he amended this to: "A
motorcycle policeman... came up.... He just came around, and around to the
elevator" (v3p180).
This policeman was Patrolman Marrion Baker: "I... went on... up the
stairways... either one or two floors.... I was looking around the
building at the time [depository manager Roy Truly] said, 'Let's take the
elevator', and I just followed him on around."
Besides the "to the elevator" amendment, Williams, before the Commission,
1) "[Williams] descended to the fifth floor, using the stairs...." (FBI"I
took the east elevator down [to the fifth floor]" (v3p171)
2) "Williams stated he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would
have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs...."
(FBI) "You cannot see anything coming down [the stairs] from that
position" (v3p1 80)
Curiously, all three changes would move both a sixth-floor suspect and
Baker to the stairs.
Even more curiously, it would seem that no changes in Williams' FBI
interview had to be made, at all, in order to bring a sixth-floor shooter
and Truly together within the time-frame necessary to allow the former to
have been our shooter. The latter could have traveled down in the
elevator which Williams left behind. On the first floor, Baker and Truly
could have seen and heard said elevator coming and waited patiently for
it. Then, after an awkward moment,Truly vouches for the man, and that's
that. Right?
However, the ease with which Williams transformed the details of his story
suggests that NEITHER version of that story was true, that there was
actually no sixth-floor shooter, that there was no Stair Man, no Elevator
Man. The stair story need never have been invented, though it was well
and thoroughly "documented". If Williams did see Baker come up on the
elevator, well, that fortuitously fit the A story, the Elevator Man story.
But, for some reason, the Bright Boys behind the cover-up couldn't accept
the unexpected gift of serendipity.
They should have: The Williams changes to the story--beginning with his
11/22 affidavit and his 11/23 FBI interview and ending with his Commission
testimony--were too obvious, too obviously geared to the B story, the
Stair Man story. They were not haphazard changes. In fact, the Bright
Boys were going a little crazy stamping out elevator fires: Even in
Williams' 11/22/63 affidavit, the word "elevator" in "We took the elevator
[down] to the 4th floor" had to be changed, by Williams--at the
hearings--to "stairs" (v3p182). You know, just in case....
One wonders, in fact, why the Bright Boys thought it necessary, in the
first place--before the introduction of Baker into the mix--to have
Williams chart their shooter's escape route. Of course, yes, that did
make it look like Someone must have been up there, rather than No One....
Why they did not stick with the Elevator Man story is hard to fathom.
Perhaps the notion of an encounter between Oswald, Truly, and Baker at the
elevator, on the first floor, sounded a tad close for comfort to the
reports of an encounter in a room on the first floor (Kent Biffle, Dallas
Morning News 11/23/63) or in the vestibule at the first-floor entrance
(Harry Holmes [as per Oswald] v7p306).
At any rate, poor Williams was stuck with--at first--the story of Elevator
Man--then, at the hearings--with the story of Stair Man. And with the
spectacle of Patrolman Baker going in two different directions at the same
time: from/to the elevator.
dcw

THIS IS A BIGGER DISCOVERY THAN THE DEAD SEA SCROLLS. MAYBE SPIELBERG WILL
MAKE ANOTHER INDIANA JONES FILM BASED ON YOUR SCREENPLAY.

[donald willis]

Post by BOZ

Post by donald willis
Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter
On November 23rd, 1963, witness Bonnie Ray Williams told the FBI of a
"police officer [who] came up on the elevator and looked all around the
fifth floor".
In his Commission testimony the next year, he amended this to: "A
motorcycle policeman... came up.... He just came around, and around to the
elevator" (v3p180).
This policeman was Patrolman Marrion Baker: "I... went on... up the
stairways... either one or two floors.... I was looking around the
building at the time [depository manager Roy Truly] said, 'Let's take the
elevator', and I just followed him on around."
Besides the "to the elevator" amendment, Williams, before the Commission,
1) "[Williams] descended to the fifth floor, using the stairs...." (FBI"I
took the east elevator down [to the fifth floor]" (v3p171)
2) "Williams stated he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would
have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs...."
(FBI) "You cannot see anything coming down [the stairs] from that
position" (v3p1 80)
Curiously, all three changes would move both a sixth-floor suspect and
Baker to the stairs.
Even more curiously, it would seem that no changes in Williams' FBI
interview had to be made, at all, in order to bring a sixth-floor shooter
and Truly together within the time-frame necessary to allow the former to
have been our shooter. The latter could have traveled down in the
elevator which Williams left behind. On the first floor, Baker and Truly
could have seen and heard said elevator coming and waited patiently for
it. Then, after an awkward moment,Truly vouches for the man, and that's
that. Right?
However, the ease with which Williams transformed the details of his story
suggests that NEITHER version of that story was true, that there was
actually no sixth-floor shooter, that there was no Stair Man, no Elevator
Man. The stair story need never have been invented, though it was well
and thoroughly "documented". If Williams did see Baker come up on the
elevator, well, that fortuitously fit the A story, the Elevator Man story.
But, for some reason, the Bright Boys behind the cover-up couldn't accept
the unexpected gift of serendipity.
They should have: The Williams changes to the story--beginning with his
11/22 affidavit and his 11/23 FBI interview and ending with his Commission
testimony--were too obvious, too obviously geared to the B story, the
Stair Man story. They were not haphazard changes. In fact, the Bright
Boys were going a little crazy stamping out elevator fires: Even in
Williams' 11/22/63 affidavit, the word "elevator" in "We took the elevator
[down] to the 4th floor" had to be changed, by Williams--at the
hearings--to "stairs" (v3p182). You know, just in case....
One wonders, in fact, why the Bright Boys thought it necessary, in the
first place--before the introduction of Baker into the mix--to have
Williams chart their shooter's escape route. Of course, yes, that did
make it look like Someone must have been up there, rather than No One....
Why they did not stick with the Elevator Man story is hard to fathom.
Perhaps the notion of an encounter between Oswald, Truly, and Baker at the
elevator, on the first floor, sounded a tad close for comfort to the
reports of an encounter in a room on the first floor (Kent Biffle, Dallas
Morning News 11/23/63) or in the vestibule at the first-floor entrance
(Harry Holmes [as per Oswald] v7p306).
At any rate, poor Williams was stuck with--at first--the story of Elevator
Man--then, at the hearings--with the story of Stair Man. And with the
spectacle of Patrolman Baker going in two different directions at the same
time: from/to the elevator.
dcw

THIS IS A BIGGER DISCOVERY THAN THE DEAD SEA SCROLLS. MAYBE SPIELBERG WILL
MAKE ANOTHER INDIANA JONES FILM BASED ON YOUR SCREENPLAY.

Boz, or another way to avoid engaging in an argument....

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by donald willis

Post by BOZ

Post by donald willis
Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter
On November 23rd, 1963, witness Bonnie Ray Williams told the FBI of a
"police officer [who] came up on the elevator and looked all around the
fifth floor".
In his Commission testimony the next year, he amended this to: "A
motorcycle policeman... came up.... He just came around, and around to the
elevator" (v3p180).
This policeman was Patrolman Marrion Baker: "I... went on... up the
stairways... either one or two floors.... I was looking around the
building at the time [depository manager Roy Truly] said, 'Let's take the
elevator', and I just followed him on around."
Besides the "to the elevator" amendment, Williams, before the Commission,
1) "[Williams] descended to the fifth floor, using the stairs...." (FBI"I
took the east elevator down [to the fifth floor]" (v3p171)
2) "Williams stated he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would
have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs...."
(FBI) "You cannot see anything coming down [the stairs] from that
position" (v3p1 80)
Curiously, all three changes would move both a sixth-floor suspect and
Baker to the stairs.
Even more curiously, it would seem that no changes in Williams' FBI
interview had to be made, at all, in order to bring a sixth-floor shooter
and Truly together within the time-frame necessary to allow the former to
have been our shooter. The latter could have traveled down in the
elevator which Williams left behind. On the first floor, Baker and Truly
could have seen and heard said elevator coming and waited patiently for
it. Then, after an awkward moment,Truly vouches for the man, and that's
that. Right?
However, the ease with which Williams transformed the details of his story
suggests that NEITHER version of that story was true, that there was
actually no sixth-floor shooter, that there was no Stair Man, no Elevator
Man. The stair story need never have been invented, though it was well
and thoroughly "documented". If Williams did see Baker come up on the
elevator, well, that fortuitously fit the A story, the Elevator Man story.
But, for some reason, the Bright Boys behind the cover-up couldn't accept
the unexpected gift of serendipity.
They should have: The Williams changes to the story--beginning with his
11/22 affidavit and his 11/23 FBI interview and ending with his Commission
testimony--were too obvious, too obviously geared to the B story, the
Stair Man story. They were not haphazard changes. In fact, the Bright
Boys were going a little crazy stamping out elevator fires: Even in
Williams' 11/22/63 affidavit, the word "elevator" in "We took the elevator
[down] to the 4th floor" had to be changed, by Williams--at the
hearings--to "stairs" (v3p182). You know, just in case....
One wonders, in fact, why the Bright Boys thought it necessary, in the
first place--before the introduction of Baker into the mix--to have
Williams chart their shooter's escape route. Of course, yes, that did
make it look like Someone must have been up there, rather than No One....
Why they did not stick with the Elevator Man story is hard to fathom.
Perhaps the notion of an encounter between Oswald, Truly, and Baker at the
elevator, on the first floor, sounded a tad close for comfort to the
reports of an encounter in a room on the first floor (Kent Biffle, Dallas
Morning News 11/23/63) or in the vestibule at the first-floor entrance
(Harry Holmes [as per Oswald] v7p306).
At any rate, poor Williams was stuck with--at first--the story of Elevator
Man--then, at the hearings--with the story of Stair Man. And with the
spectacle of Patrolman Baker going in two different directions at the same
time: from/to the elevator.
dcw

THIS IS A BIGGER DISCOVERY THAN THE DEAD SEA SCROLLS. MAYBE SPIELBERG WILL
MAKE ANOTHER INDIANA JONES FILM BASED ON YOUR SCREENPLAY.

Now, wait a minute. I thought the AI project was a bigger story than the
Dead Sead Scrolls.

I wish they would use that on the Venona files.

Post by donald willis
Boz, or another way to avoid engaging in an argument....

[bigdog]

Post by donald willis
Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter
On November 23rd, 1963, witness Bonnie Ray Williams told the FBI of a
"police officer [who] came up on the elevator and looked all around the
fifth floor".
In his Commission testimony the next year, he amended this to: "A
motorcycle policeman... came up.... He just came around, and around to the
elevator" (v3p180).
This policeman was Patrolman Marrion Baker: "I... went on... up the
stairways... either one or two floors.... I was looking around the
building at the time [depository manager Roy Truly] said, 'Let's take the
elevator', and I just followed him on around."
Besides the "to the elevator" amendment, Williams, before the Commission,
1) "[Williams] descended to the fifth floor, using the stairs...." (FBI"I
took the east elevator down [to the fifth floor]" (v3p171)
2) "Williams stated he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would
have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs...."
(FBI) "You cannot see anything coming down [the stairs] from that
position" (v3p1 80)
Curiously, all three changes would move both a sixth-floor suspect and
Baker to the stairs.
Even more curiously, it would seem that no changes in Williams' FBI
interview had to be made, at all, in order to bring a sixth-floor shooter
and Truly together within the time-frame necessary to allow the former to
have been our shooter. The latter could have traveled down in the
elevator which Williams left behind. On the first floor, Baker and Truly
could have seen and heard said elevator coming and waited patiently for
it. Then, after an awkward moment,Truly vouches for the man, and that's
that. Right?
However, the ease with which Williams transformed the details of his story
suggests that NEITHER version of that story was true, that there was
actually no sixth-floor shooter, that there was no Stair Man, no Elevator
Man. The stair story need never have been invented, though it was well
and thoroughly "documented". If Williams did see Baker come up on the
elevator, well, that fortuitously fit the A story, the Elevator Man story.
But, for some reason, the Bright Boys behind the cover-up couldn't accept
the unexpected gift of serendipity.
They should have: The Williams changes to the story--beginning with his
11/22 affidavit and his 11/23 FBI interview and ending with his Commission
testimony--were too obvious, too obviously geared to the B story, the
Stair Man story. They were not haphazard changes. In fact, the Bright
Boys were going a little crazy stamping out elevator fires: Even in
Williams' 11/22/63 affidavit, the word "elevator" in "We took the elevator
[down] to the 4th floor" had to be changed, by Williams--at the
hearings--to "stairs" (v3p182). You know, just in case....
One wonders, in fact, why the Bright Boys thought it necessary, in the
first place--before the introduction of Baker into the mix--to have
Williams chart their shooter's escape route. Of course, yes, that did
make it look like Someone must have been up there, rather than No One....
Why they did not stick with the Elevator Man story is hard to fathom.
Perhaps the notion of an encounter between Oswald, Truly, and Baker at the
elevator, on the first floor, sounded a tad close for comfort to the
reports of an encounter in a room on the first floor (Kent Biffle, Dallas
Morning News 11/23/63) or in the vestibule at the first-floor entrance
(Harry Holmes [as per Oswald] v7p306).
At any rate, poor Williams was stuck with--at first--the story of Elevator
Man--then, at the hearings--with the story of Stair Man. And with the
spectacle of Patrolman Baker going in two different directions at the same
time: from/to the elevator.

All this digging around you do to try to find discrepancies among the
various accounts proves nothing except that people don't always remember
details correctly. Most people already know that.

[mainframetech]

Post by bigdog

Post by donald willis
Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter
On November 23rd, 1963, witness Bonnie Ray Williams told the FBI of a
"police officer [who] came up on the elevator and looked all around the
fifth floor".
In his Commission testimony the next year, he amended this to: "A
motorcycle policeman... came up.... He just came around, and around to the
elevator" (v3p180).
This policeman was Patrolman Marrion Baker: "I... went on... up the
stairways... either one or two floors.... I was looking around the
building at the time [depository manager Roy Truly] said, 'Let's take the
elevator', and I just followed him on around."
Besides the "to the elevator" amendment, Williams, before the Commission,
1) "[Williams] descended to the fifth floor, using the stairs...." (FBI"I
took the east elevator down [to the fifth floor]" (v3p171)
2) "Williams stated he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would
have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs...."
(FBI) "You cannot see anything coming down [the stairs] from that
position" (v3p1 80)
Curiously, all three changes would move both a sixth-floor suspect and
Baker to the stairs.
Even more curiously, it would seem that no changes in Williams' FBI
interview had to be made, at all, in order to bring a sixth-floor shooter
and Truly together within the time-frame necessary to allow the former to
have been our shooter. The latter could have traveled down in the
elevator which Williams left behind. On the first floor, Baker and Truly
could have seen and heard said elevator coming and waited patiently for
it. Then, after an awkward moment,Truly vouches for the man, and that's
that. Right?
However, the ease with which Williams transformed the details of his story
suggests that NEITHER version of that story was true, that there was
actually no sixth-floor shooter, that there was no Stair Man, no Elevator
Man. The stair story need never have been invented, though it was well
and thoroughly "documented". If Williams did see Baker come up on the
elevator, well, that fortuitously fit the A story, the Elevator Man story.
But, for some reason, the Bright Boys behind the cover-up couldn't accept
the unexpected gift of serendipity.
They should have: The Williams changes to the story--beginning with his
11/22 affidavit and his 11/23 FBI interview and ending with his Commission
testimony--were too obvious, too obviously geared to the B story, the
Stair Man story. They were not haphazard changes. In fact, the Bright
Boys were going a little crazy stamping out elevator fires: Even in
Williams' 11/22/63 affidavit, the word "elevator" in "We took the elevator
[down] to the 4th floor" had to be changed, by Williams--at the
hearings--to "stairs" (v3p182). You know, just in case....
One wonders, in fact, why the Bright Boys thought it necessary, in the
first place--before the introduction of Baker into the mix--to have
Williams chart their shooter's escape route. Of course, yes, that did
make it look like Someone must have been up there, rather than No One....
Why they did not stick with the Elevator Man story is hard to fathom.
Perhaps the notion of an encounter between Oswald, Truly, and Baker at the
elevator, on the first floor, sounded a tad close for comfort to the
reports of an encounter in a room on the first floor (Kent Biffle, Dallas
Morning News 11/23/63) or in the vestibule at the first-floor entrance
(Harry Holmes [as per Oswald] v7p306).
At any rate, poor Williams was stuck with--at first--the story of Elevator
Man--then, at the hearings--with the story of Stair Man. And with the
spectacle of Patrolman Baker going in two different directions at the same
time: from/to the elevator.

All this digging around you do to try to find discrepancies among the
various accounts proves nothing except that people don't always remember
details correctly. Most people already know that.

Keep in mind that you said that when the issue comes up again
elsewhere.

Chris

[Mark]

Post by bigdog

Post by donald willis
Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter
On November 23rd, 1963, witness Bonnie Ray Williams told the FBI of a
"police officer [who] came up on the elevator and looked all around the
fifth floor".
In his Commission testimony the next year, he amended this to: "A
motorcycle policeman... came up.... He just came around, and around to the
elevator" (v3p180).
This policeman was Patrolman Marrion Baker: "I... went on... up the
stairways... either one or two floors.... I was looking around the
building at the time [depository manager Roy Truly] said, 'Let's take the
elevator', and I just followed him on around."
Besides the "to the elevator" amendment, Williams, before the Commission,
1) "[Williams] descended to the fifth floor, using the stairs...." (FBI"I
took the east elevator down [to the fifth floor]" (v3p171)
2) "Williams stated he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would
have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs...."
(FBI) "You cannot see anything coming down [the stairs] from that
position" (v3p1 80)
Curiously, all three changes would move both a sixth-floor suspect and
Baker to the stairs.
Even more curiously, it would seem that no changes in Williams' FBI
interview had to be made, at all, in order to bring a sixth-floor shooter
and Truly together within the time-frame necessary to allow the former to
have been our shooter. The latter could have traveled down in the
elevator which Williams left behind. On the first floor, Baker and Truly
could have seen and heard said elevator coming and waited patiently for
it. Then, after an awkward moment,Truly vouches for the man, and that's
that. Right?
However, the ease with which Williams transformed the details of his story
suggests that NEITHER version of that story was true, that there was
actually no sixth-floor shooter, that there was no Stair Man, no Elevator
Man. The stair story need never have been invented, though it was well
and thoroughly "documented". If Williams did see Baker come up on the
elevator, well, that fortuitously fit the A story, the Elevator Man story.
But, for some reason, the Bright Boys behind the cover-up couldn't accept
the unexpected gift of serendipity.
They should have: The Williams changes to the story--beginning with his
11/22 affidavit and his 11/23 FBI interview and ending with his Commission
testimony--were too obvious, too obviously geared to the B story, the
Stair Man story. They were not haphazard changes. In fact, the Bright
Boys were going a little crazy stamping out elevator fires: Even in
Williams' 11/22/63 affidavit, the word "elevator" in "We took the elevator
[down] to the 4th floor" had to be changed, by Williams--at the
hearings--to "stairs" (v3p182). You know, just in case....
One wonders, in fact, why the Bright Boys thought it necessary, in the
first place--before the introduction of Baker into the mix--to have
Williams chart their shooter's escape route. Of course, yes, that did
make it look like Someone must have been up there, rather than No One....
Why they did not stick with the Elevator Man story is hard to fathom.
Perhaps the notion of an encounter between Oswald, Truly, and Baker at the
elevator, on the first floor, sounded a tad close for comfort to the
reports of an encounter in a room on the first floor (Kent Biffle, Dallas
Morning News 11/23/63) or in the vestibule at the first-floor entrance
(Harry Holmes [as per Oswald] v7p306).
At any rate, poor Williams was stuck with--at first--the story of Elevator
Man--then, at the hearings--with the story of Stair Man. And with the
spectacle of Patrolman Baker going in two different directions at the same
time: from/to the elevator.

All this digging around you do to try to find discrepancies among the
various accounts proves nothing except that people don't always remember
details correctly. Most people already know that.

True that. Mark

[donald willis]

Post by bigdog

Post by donald willis
Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter
On November 23rd, 1963, witness Bonnie Ray Williams told the FBI of a
"police officer [who] came up on the elevator and looked all around the
fifth floor".
In his Commission testimony the next year, he amended this to: "A
motorcycle policeman... came up.... He just came around, and around to the
elevator" (v3p180).
This policeman was Patrolman Marrion Baker: "I... went on... up the
stairways... either one or two floors.... I was looking around the
building at the time [depository manager Roy Truly] said, 'Let's take the
elevator', and I just followed him on around."
Besides the "to the elevator" amendment, Williams, before the Commission,
1) "[Williams] descended to the fifth floor, using the stairs...." (FBI"I
took the east elevator down [to the fifth floor]" (v3p171)
2) "Williams stated he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would
have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs...."
(FBI) "You cannot see anything coming down [the stairs] from that
position" (v3p1 80)
Curiously, all three changes would move both a sixth-floor suspect and
Baker to the stairs.
Even more curiously, it would seem that no changes in Williams' FBI
interview had to be made, at all, in order to bring a sixth-floor shooter
and Truly together within the time-frame necessary to allow the former to
have been our shooter. The latter could have traveled down in the
elevator which Williams left behind. On the first floor, Baker and Truly
could have seen and heard said elevator coming and waited patiently for
it. Then, after an awkward moment,Truly vouches for the man, and that's
that. Right?
However, the ease with which Williams transformed the details of his story
suggests that NEITHER version of that story was true, that there was
actually no sixth-floor shooter, that there was no Stair Man, no Elevator
Man. The stair story need never have been invented, though it was well
and thoroughly "documented". If Williams did see Baker come up on the
elevator, well, that fortuitously fit the A story, the Elevator Man story.
But, for some reason, the Bright Boys behind the cover-up couldn't accept
the unexpected gift of serendipity.
They should have: The Williams changes to the story--beginning with his
11/22 affidavit and his 11/23 FBI interview and ending with his Commission
testimony--were too obvious, too obviously geared to the B story, the
Stair Man story. They were not haphazard changes. In fact, the Bright
Boys were going a little crazy stamping out elevator fires: Even in
Williams' 11/22/63 affidavit, the word "elevator" in "We took the elevator
[down] to the 4th floor" had to be changed, by Williams--at the
hearings--to "stairs" (v3p182). You know, just in case....
One wonders, in fact, why the Bright Boys thought it necessary, in the
first place--before the introduction of Baker into the mix--to have
Williams chart their shooter's escape route. Of course, yes, that did
make it look like Someone must have been up there, rather than No One....
Why they did not stick with the Elevator Man story is hard to fathom.
Perhaps the notion of an encounter between Oswald, Truly, and Baker at the
elevator, on the first floor, sounded a tad close for comfort to the
reports of an encounter in a room on the first floor (Kent Biffle, Dallas
Morning News 11/23/63) or in the vestibule at the first-floor entrance
(Harry Holmes [as per Oswald] v7p306).
At any rate, poor Williams was stuck with--at first--the story of Elevator
Man--then, at the hearings--with the story of Stair Man. And with the
spectacle of Patrolman Baker going in two different directions at the same
time: from/to the elevator.

All this digging around you do to try to find discrepancies among the
various accounts proves nothing except that people don't always remember
details correctly. Most people already know that.

Unfortunately for your glittering generalities (my English/writing
teachers of yore used that phrase!), all the aforementioned "details" in
Williams' interview were synced, changed, the better to switch Oswald (or
whoever) from the elevator to the stairwell. This pretty obviously
signaled a switch in pre-assassination strategy, prompted by the surprise
of Baker in the building so soon after the shooting, and apparently
encountering Oswald on the first floor, out of range of the "nest"....

dcw

[mainframetech]

Post by donald willis
Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter
On November 23rd, 1963, witness Bonnie Ray Williams told the FBI of a
"police officer [who] came up on the elevator and looked all around the
fifth floor".
In his Commission testimony the next year, he amended this to: "A
motorcycle policeman... came up.... He just came around, and around to the
elevator" (v3p180).
This policeman was Patrolman Marrion Baker: "I... went on... up the
stairways... either one or two floors.... I was looking around the
building at the time [depository manager Roy Truly] said, 'Let's take the
elevator', and I just followed him on around."
Besides the "to the elevator" amendment, Williams, before the Commission,
1) "[Williams] descended to the fifth floor, using the stairs...." (FBI"I
took the east elevator down [to the fifth floor]" (v3p171)

I seem to remember the elevator wasn't working at that moment. Maybe
because someone on another floor had the gate open.

Post by donald willis
2) "Williams stated he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would
have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs...."
(FBI) "You cannot see anything coming down [the stairs] from that
position" (v3p1 80)
Curiously, all three changes would move both a sixth-floor suspect and
Baker to the stairs.
Even more curiously, it would seem that no changes in Williams' FBI
interview had to be made, at all, in order to bring a sixth-floor shooter
and Truly together within the time-frame necessary to allow the former to
have been our shooter. The latter could have traveled down in the
elevator which Williams left behind. On the first floor, Baker and Truly
could have seen and heard said elevator coming and waited patiently for
it. Then, after an awkward moment,Truly vouches for the man, and that's
that. Right?
However, the ease with which Williams transformed the details of his story
suggests that NEITHER version of that story was true, that there was
actually no sixth-floor shooter, that there was no Stair Man, no Elevator
Man. The stair story need never have been invented, though it was well
and thoroughly "documented". If Williams did see Baker come up on the
elevator, well, that fortuitously fit the A story, the Elevator Man story.
But, for some reason, the Bright Boys behind the cover-up couldn't accept
the unexpected gift of serendipity.
They should have: The Williams changes to the story--beginning with his
11/22 affidavit and his 11/23 FBI interview and ending with his Commission
testimony--were too obvious, too obviously geared to the B story, the
Stair Man story. They were not haphazard changes. In fact, the Bright
Boys were going a little crazy stamping out elevator fires: Even in
Williams' 11/22/63 affidavit, the word "elevator" in "We took the elevator
[down] to the 4th floor" had to be changed, by Williams--at the
hearings--to "stairs" (v3p182). You know, just in case....
One wonders, in fact, why the Bright Boys thought it necessary, in the
first place--before the introduction of Baker into the mix--to have
Williams chart their shooter's escape route. Of course, yes, that did
make it look like Someone must have been up there, rather than No One....

Too many witnesses to a rifle sticking out on the 6th floor.

Post by donald willis
Why they did not stick with the Elevator Man story is hard to fathom.
Perhaps the notion of an encounter between Oswald, Truly, and Baker at the
elevator, on the first floor, sounded a tad close for comfort to the
reports of an encounter in a room on the first floor (Kent Biffle, Dallas
Morning News 11/23/63) or in the vestibule at the first-floor entrance
(Harry Holmes [as per Oswald] v7p306).
At any rate, poor Williams was stuck with--at first--the story of Elevator
Man--then, at the hearings--with the story of Stair Man. And with the
spectacle of Patrolman Baker going in two different directions at the same
time: from/to the elevator.
dcw

[donald willis]

Post by mainframetech

Post by donald willis
Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter
On November 23rd, 1963, witness Bonnie Ray Williams told the FBI of a
"police officer [who] came up on the elevator and looked all around the
fifth floor".
In his Commission testimony the next year, he amended this to: "A
motorcycle policeman... came up.... He just came around, and around to the
elevator" (v3p180).
This policeman was Patrolman Marrion Baker: "I... went on... up the
stairways... either one or two floors.... I was looking around the
building at the time [depository manager Roy Truly] said, 'Let's take the
elevator', and I just followed him on around."
Besides the "to the elevator" amendment, Williams, before the Commission,
1) "[Williams] descended to the fifth floor, using the stairs...." (FBI"I
took the east elevator down [to the fifth floor]" (v3p171)

I seem to remember the elevator wasn't working at that moment. Maybe
because someone on another floor had the gate open.

Post by donald willis
2) "Williams stated he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would
have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs...."
(FBI) "You cannot see anything coming down [the stairs] from that
position" (v3p1 80)
Curiously, all three changes would move both a sixth-floor suspect and
Baker to the stairs.
Even more curiously, it would seem that no changes in Williams' FBI
interview had to be made, at all, in order to bring a sixth-floor shooter
and Truly together within the time-frame necessary to allow the former to
have been our shooter. The latter could have traveled down in the
elevator which Williams left behind. On the first floor, Baker and Truly
could have seen and heard said elevator coming and waited patiently for
it. Then, after an awkward moment,Truly vouches for the man, and that's
that. Right?
However, the ease with which Williams transformed the details of his story
suggests that NEITHER version of that story was true, that there was
actually no sixth-floor shooter, that there was no Stair Man, no Elevator
Man. The stair story need never have been invented, though it was well
and thoroughly "documented". If Williams did see Baker come up on the
elevator, well, that fortuitously fit the A story, the Elevator Man story.
But, for some reason, the Bright Boys behind the cover-up couldn't accept
the unexpected gift of serendipity.
They should have: The Williams changes to the story--beginning with his
11/22 affidavit and his 11/23 FBI interview and ending with his Commission
testimony--were too obvious, too obviously geared to the B story, the
Stair Man story. They were not haphazard changes. In fact, the Bright
Boys were going a little crazy stamping out elevator fires: Even in
Williams' 11/22/63 affidavit, the word "elevator" in "We took the elevator
[down] to the 4th floor" had to be changed, by Williams--at the
hearings--to "stairs" (v3p182). You know, just in case....
One wonders, in fact, why the Bright Boys thought it necessary, in the
first place--before the introduction of Baker into the mix--to have
Williams chart their shooter's escape route. Of course, yes, that did
make it look like Someone must have been up there, rather than No One....

Too many witnesses to a rifle sticking out on the 6th floor.

a) No photo, though an early police report states that Bob Jackson saw the
rifle and the man who held the rifle. And Jackson's 11/22 affidavit has
yet to turn up. They're still looking, I'm sure....

b) Most witnesses to a rifle or a suspicious person up there said the
window was wide open. Amos Euins, alone, did say the window was half
open--but also that the man with the rifle was "colored".

c) Fritz picked up the hulls before they could be photographed, so they
could have been found anywhere....

dcw

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by donald willis

Post by mainframetech

Post by donald willis
Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter
On November 23rd, 1963, witness Bonnie Ray Williams told the FBI of a
"police officer [who] came up on the elevator and looked all around the
fifth floor".
In his Commission testimony the next year, he amended this to: "A
motorcycle policeman... came up.... He just came around, and around to the
elevator" (v3p180).
This policeman was Patrolman Marrion Baker: "I... went on... up the
stairways... either one or two floors.... I was looking around the
building at the time [depository manager Roy Truly] said, 'Let's take the
elevator', and I just followed him on around."
Besides the "to the elevator" amendment, Williams, before the Commission,
1) "[Williams] descended to the fifth floor, using the stairs...." (FBI"I
took the east elevator down [to the fifth floor]" (v3p171)

I seem to remember the elevator wasn't working at that moment. Maybe
because someone on another floor had the gate open.

Post by donald willis
2) "Williams stated he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would
have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs...."
(FBI) "You cannot see anything coming down [the stairs] from that
position" (v3p1 80)
Curiously, all three changes would move both a sixth-floor suspect and
Baker to the stairs.
Even more curiously, it would seem that no changes in Williams' FBI
interview had to be made, at all, in order to bring a sixth-floor shooter
and Truly together within the time-frame necessary to allow the former to
have been our shooter. The latter could have traveled down in the
elevator which Williams left behind. On the first floor, Baker and Truly
could have seen and heard said elevator coming and waited patiently for
it. Then, after an awkward moment,Truly vouches for the man, and that's
that. Right?
However, the ease with which Williams transformed the details of his story
suggests that NEITHER version of that story was true, that there was
actually no sixth-floor shooter, that there was no Stair Man, no Elevator
Man. The stair story need never have been invented, though it was well
and thoroughly "documented". If Williams did see Baker come up on the
elevator, well, that fortuitously fit the A story, the Elevator Man story.
But, for some reason, the Bright Boys behind the cover-up couldn't accept
the unexpected gift of serendipity.
They should have: The Williams changes to the story--beginning with his
11/22 affidavit and his 11/23 FBI interview and ending with his Commission
testimony--were too obvious, too obviously geared to the B story, the
Stair Man story. They were not haphazard changes. In fact, the Bright
Boys were going a little crazy stamping out elevator fires: Even in
Williams' 11/22/63 affidavit, the word "elevator" in "We took the elevator
[down] to the 4th floor" had to be changed, by Williams--at the
hearings--to "stairs" (v3p182). You know, just in case....
One wonders, in fact, why the Bright Boys thought it necessary, in the
first place--before the introduction of Baker into the mix--to have
Williams chart their shooter's escape route. Of course, yes, that did
make it look like Someone must have been up there, rather than No One....

Too many witnesses to a rifle sticking out on the 6th floor.

a) No photo, though an early police report states that Bob Jackson saw the
rifle and the man who held the rifle. And Jackson's 11/22 affidavit has
yet to turn up. They're still looking, I'm sure....
b) Most witnesses to a rifle or a suspicious person up there said the
window was wide open. Amos Euins, alone, did say the window was half
open--but also that the man with the rifle was "colored".
c) Fritz picked up the hulls before they could be photographed, so they
could have been found anywhere....

Not exactly. Alyea FILMED then in place before Fritz the Klutz picked
them up.

Post by donald willis
dcw

[donald willis]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis

Post by mainframetech

Post by donald willis
Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter
On November 23rd, 1963, witness Bonnie Ray Williams told the FBI of a
"police officer [who] came up on the elevator and looked all around the
fifth floor".
In his Commission testimony the next year, he amended this to: "A
motorcycle policeman... came up.... He just came around, and around to the
elevator" (v3p180).
This policeman was Patrolman Marrion Baker: "I... went on... up the
stairways... either one or two floors.... I was looking around the
building at the time [depository manager Roy Truly] said, 'Let's take the
elevator', and I just followed him on around."
Besides the "to the elevator" amendment, Williams, before the Commission,
1) "[Williams] descended to the fifth floor, using the stairs...." (FBI"I
took the east elevator down [to the fifth floor]" (v3p171)

I seem to remember the elevator wasn't working at that moment. Maybe
because someone on another floor had the gate open.

Post by donald willis
2) "Williams stated he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would
have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs...."
(FBI) "You cannot see anything coming down [the stairs] from that
position" (v3p1 80)
Curiously, all three changes would move both a sixth-floor suspect and
Baker to the stairs.
Even more curiously, it would seem that no changes in Williams' FBI
interview had to be made, at all, in order to bring a sixth-floor shooter
and Truly together within the time-frame necessary to allow the former to
have been our shooter. The latter could have traveled down in the
elevator which Williams left behind. On the first floor, Baker and Truly
could have seen and heard said elevator coming and waited patiently for
it. Then, after an awkward moment,Truly vouches for the man, and that's
that. Right?
However, the ease with which Williams transformed the details of his story
suggests that NEITHER version of that story was true, that there was
actually no sixth-floor shooter, that there was no Stair Man, no Elevator
Man. The stair story need never have been invented, though it was well
and thoroughly "documented". If Williams did see Baker come up on the
elevator, well, that fortuitously fit the A story, the Elevator Man story.
But, for some reason, the Bright Boys behind the cover-up couldn't accept
the unexpected gift of serendipity.
They should have: The Williams changes to the story--beginning with his
11/22 affidavit and his 11/23 FBI interview and ending with his Commission
testimony--were too obvious, too obviously geared to the B story, the
Stair Man story. They were not haphazard changes. In fact, the Bright
Boys were going a little crazy stamping out elevator fires: Even in
Williams' 11/22/63 affidavit, the word "elevator" in "We took the elevator
[down] to the 4th floor" had to be changed, by Williams--at the
hearings--to "stairs" (v3p182). You know, just in case....
One wonders, in fact, why the Bright Boys thought it necessary, in the
first place--before the introduction of Baker into the mix--to have
Williams chart their shooter's escape route. Of course, yes, that did
make it look like Someone must have been up there, rather than No One....

Too many witnesses to a rifle sticking out on the 6th floor.

a) No photo, though an early police report states that Bob Jackson saw the
rifle and the man who held the rifle. And Jackson's 11/22 affidavit has
yet to turn up. They're still looking, I'm sure....
b) Most witnesses to a rifle or a suspicious person up there said the
window was wide open. Amos Euins, alone, did say the window was half
open--but also that the man with the rifle was "colored".
c) Fritz picked up the hulls before they could be photographed, so they
could have been found anywhere....

Not exactly. Alyea FILMED then in place before Fritz the Klutz picked
them up.

I've seen the footage purporting to show shells on the floor, but could
not make out anything down there....

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis
dcw

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by donald willis

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis

Post by mainframetech

Post by donald willis
Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter
On November 23rd, 1963, witness Bonnie Ray Williams told the FBI of a
"police officer [who] came up on the elevator and looked all around the
fifth floor".
In his Commission testimony the next year, he amended this to: "A
motorcycle policeman... came up.... He just came around, and around to the
elevator" (v3p180).
This policeman was Patrolman Marrion Baker: "I... went on... up the
stairways... either one or two floors.... I was looking around the
building at the time [depository manager Roy Truly] said, 'Let's take the
elevator', and I just followed him on around."
Besides the "to the elevator" amendment, Williams, before the Commission,
1) "[Williams] descended to the fifth floor, using the stairs...." (FBI"I
took the east elevator down [to the fifth floor]" (v3p171)

I seem to remember the elevator wasn't working at that moment. Maybe
because someone on another floor had the gate open.

Post by donald willis
2) "Williams stated he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would
have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs...."
(FBI) "You cannot see anything coming down [the stairs] from that
position" (v3p1 80)
Curiously, all three changes would move both a sixth-floor suspect and
Baker to the stairs.
Even more curiously, it would seem that no changes in Williams' FBI
interview had to be made, at all, in order to bring a sixth-floor shooter
and Truly together within the time-frame necessary to allow the former to
have been our shooter. The latter could have traveled down in the
elevator which Williams left behind. On the first floor, Baker and Truly
could have seen and heard said elevator coming and waited patiently for
it. Then, after an awkward moment,Truly vouches for the man, and that's
that. Right?
However, the ease with which Williams transformed the details of his story
suggests that NEITHER version of that story was true, that there was
actually no sixth-floor shooter, that there was no Stair Man, no Elevator
Man. The stair story need never have been invented, though it was well
and thoroughly "documented". If Williams did see Baker come up on the
elevator, well, that fortuitously fit the A story, the Elevator Man story.
But, for some reason, the Bright Boys behind the cover-up couldn't accept
the unexpected gift of serendipity.
They should have: The Williams changes to the story--beginning with his
11/22 affidavit and his 11/23 FBI interview and ending with his Commission
testimony--were too obvious, too obviously geared to the B story, the
Stair Man story. They were not haphazard changes. In fact, the Bright
Boys were going a little crazy stamping out elevator fires: Even in
Williams' 11/22/63 affidavit, the word "elevator" in "We took the elevator
[down] to the 4th floor" had to be changed, by Williams--at the
hearings--to "stairs" (v3p182). You know, just in case....
One wonders, in fact, why the Bright Boys thought it necessary, in the
first place--before the introduction of Baker into the mix--to have
Williams chart their shooter's escape route. Of course, yes, that did
make it look like Someone must have been up there, rather than No One....

Too many witnesses to a rifle sticking out on the 6th floor.

a) No photo, though an early police report states that Bob Jackson saw the
rifle and the man who held the rifle. And Jackson's 11/22 affidavit has
yet to turn up. They're still looking, I'm sure....
b) Most witnesses to a rifle or a suspicious person up there said the
window was wide open. Amos Euins, alone, did say the window was half
open--but also that the man with the rifle was "colored".
c) Fritz picked up the hulls before they could be photographed, so they
could have been found anywhere....

Not exactly. Alyea FILMED then in place before Fritz the Klutz picked
them up.

I've seen the footage purporting to show shells on the floor, but could
not make out anything down there....

You mean the film that WFAA destroyed?

Post by donald willis

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis
dcw

[donald willis]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis

Post by mainframetech

Post by donald willis
Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter
On November 23rd, 1963, witness Bonnie Ray Williams told the FBI of a
"police officer [who] came up on the elevator and looked all around the
fifth floor".
In his Commission testimony the next year, he amended this to: "A
motorcycle policeman... came up.... He just came around, and around to the
elevator" (v3p180).
This policeman was Patrolman Marrion Baker: "I... went on... up the
stairways... either one or two floors.... I was looking around the
building at the time [depository manager Roy Truly] said, 'Let's take the
elevator', and I just followed him on around."
Besides the "to the elevator" amendment, Williams, before the Commission,
1) "[Williams] descended to the fifth floor, using the stairs...." (FBI"I
took the east elevator down [to the fifth floor]" (v3p171)

I seem to remember the elevator wasn't working at that moment. Maybe
because someone on another floor had the gate open.

Post by donald willis
2) "Williams stated he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would
have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs...."
(FBI) "You cannot see anything coming down [the stairs] from that
position" (v3p1 80)
Curiously, all three changes would move both a sixth-floor suspect and
Baker to the stairs.
Even more curiously, it would seem that no changes in Williams' FBI
interview had to be made, at all, in order to bring a sixth-floor shooter
and Truly together within the time-frame necessary to allow the former to
have been our shooter. The latter could have traveled down in the
elevator which Williams left behind. On the first floor, Baker and Truly
could have seen and heard said elevator coming and waited patiently for
it. Then, after an awkward moment,Truly vouches for the man, and that's
that. Right?
However, the ease with which Williams transformed the details of his story
suggests that NEITHER version of that story was true, that there was
actually no sixth-floor shooter, that there was no Stair Man, no Elevator
Man. The stair story need never have been invented, though it was well
and thoroughly "documented". If Williams did see Baker come up on the
elevator, well, that fortuitously fit the A story, the Elevator Man story.
But, for some reason, the Bright Boys behind the cover-up couldn't accept
the unexpected gift of serendipity.
They should have: The Williams changes to the story--beginning with his
11/22 affidavit and his 11/23 FBI interview and ending with his Commission
testimony--were too obvious, too obviously geared to the B story, the
Stair Man story. They were not haphazard changes. In fact, the Bright
Boys were going a little crazy stamping out elevator fires: Even in
Williams' 11/22/63 affidavit, the word "elevator" in "We took the elevator
[down] to the 4th floor" had to be changed, by Williams--at the
hearings--to "stairs" (v3p182). You know, just in case....
One wonders, in fact, why the Bright Boys thought it necessary, in the
first place--before the introduction of Baker into the mix--to have
Williams chart their shooter's escape route. Of course, yes, that did
make it look like Someone must have been up there, rather than No One....

Too many witnesses to a rifle sticking out on the 6th floor.

a) No photo, though an early police report states that Bob Jackson saw the
rifle and the man who held the rifle. And Jackson's 11/22 affidavit has
yet to turn up. They're still looking, I'm sure....
b) Most witnesses to a rifle or a suspicious person up there said the
window was wide open. Amos Euins, alone, did say the window was half
open--but also that the man with the rifle was "colored".
c) Fritz picked up the hulls before they could be photographed, so they
could have been found anywhere....

Not exactly. Alyea FILMED then in place before Fritz the Klutz picked
them up.

I've seen the footage purporting to show shells on the floor, but could
not make out anything down there....

You mean the film that WFAA destroyed?

There's a surviving shot of the "nest" from just outside it, but too dark
and blurry to pick out any details... like hulls, say....

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis
dcw

[Mark]

Post by donald willis

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis

Post by mainframetech

Post by donald willis
Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter
On November 23rd, 1963, witness Bonnie Ray Williams told the FBI of a
"police officer [who] came up on the elevator and looked all around the
fifth floor".
In his Commission testimony the next year, he amended this to: "A
motorcycle policeman... came up.... He just came around, and around to the
elevator" (v3p180).
This policeman was Patrolman Marrion Baker: "I... went on... up the
stairways... either one or two floors.... I was looking around the
building at the time [depository manager Roy Truly] said, 'Let's take the
elevator', and I just followed him on around."
Besides the "to the elevator" amendment, Williams, before the Commission,
1) "[Williams] descended to the fifth floor, using the stairs...." (FBI"I
took the east elevator down [to the fifth floor]" (v3p171)

I seem to remember the elevator wasn't working at that moment. Maybe
because someone on another floor had the gate open.

Post by donald willis
2) "Williams stated he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would
have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs...."
(FBI) "You cannot see anything coming down [the stairs] from that
position" (v3p1 80)
Curiously, all three changes would move both a sixth-floor suspect and
Baker to the stairs.
Even more curiously, it would seem that no changes in Williams' FBI
interview had to be made, at all, in order to bring a sixth-floor shooter
and Truly together within the time-frame necessary to allow the former to
have been our shooter. The latter could have traveled down in the
elevator which Williams left behind. On the first floor, Baker and Truly
could have seen and heard said elevator coming and waited patiently for
it. Then, after an awkward moment,Truly vouches for the man, and that's
that. Right?
However, the ease with which Williams transformed the details of his story
suggests that NEITHER version of that story was true, that there was
actually no sixth-floor shooter, that there was no Stair Man, no Elevator
Man. The stair story need never have been invented, though it was well
and thoroughly "documented". If Williams did see Baker come up on the
elevator, well, that fortuitously fit the A story, the Elevator Man story.
But, for some reason, the Bright Boys behind the cover-up couldn't accept
the unexpected gift of serendipity.
They should have: The Williams changes to the story--beginning with his
11/22 affidavit and his 11/23 FBI interview and ending with his Commission
testimony--were too obvious, too obviously geared to the B story, the
Stair Man story. They were not haphazard changes. In fact, the Bright
Boys were going a little crazy stamping out elevator fires: Even in
Williams' 11/22/63 affidavit, the word "elevator" in "We took the elevator
[down] to the 4th floor" had to be changed, by Williams--at the
hearings--to "stairs" (v3p182). You know, just in case....
One wonders, in fact, why the Bright Boys thought it necessary, in the
first place--before the introduction of Baker into the mix--to have
Williams chart their shooter's escape route. Of course, yes, that did
make it look like Someone must have been up there, rather than No One....

Too many witnesses to a rifle sticking out on the 6th floor.

a) No photo, though an early police report states that Bob Jackson saw the
rifle and the man who held the rifle. And Jackson's 11/22 affidavit has
yet to turn up. They're still looking, I'm sure....
b) Most witnesses to a rifle or a suspicious person up there said the
window was wide open. Amos Euins, alone, did say the window was half
open--but also that the man with the rifle was "colored".
c) Fritz picked up the hulls before they could be photographed, so they
could have been found anywhere....

Not exactly. Alyea FILMED then in place before Fritz the Klutz picked
them up.

I've seen the footage purporting to show shells on the floor, but could
not make out anything down there....

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis
dcw

You've never see the picture of the expended cartridge shells in the
sniper's nest? Or the firearms experts finding that they were fired in
and ejected from Oswald's rifle to the exclusion of all other rifles?

Mark

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Mark

Post by donald willis

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis

Post by mainframetech

Post by donald willis
Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter
On November 23rd, 1963, witness Bonnie Ray Williams told the FBI of a
"police officer [who] came up on the elevator and looked all around the
fifth floor".
In his Commission testimony the next year, he amended this to: "A
motorcycle policeman... came up.... He just came around, and around to the
elevator" (v3p180).
This policeman was Patrolman Marrion Baker: "I... went on... up the
stairways... either one or two floors.... I was looking around the
building at the time [depository manager Roy Truly] said, 'Let's take the
elevator', and I just followed him on around."
Besides the "to the elevator" amendment, Williams, before the Commission,
1) "[Williams] descended to the fifth floor, using the stairs...." (FBI"I
took the east elevator down [to the fifth floor]" (v3p171)

I seem to remember the elevator wasn't working at that moment. Maybe
because someone on another floor had the gate open.

Post by donald willis
2) "Williams stated he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would
have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs...."
(FBI) "You cannot see anything coming down [the stairs] from that
position" (v3p1 80)
Curiously, all three changes would move both a sixth-floor suspect and
Baker to the stairs.
Even more curiously, it would seem that no changes in Williams' FBI
interview had to be made, at all, in order to bring a sixth-floor shooter
and Truly together within the time-frame necessary to allow the former to
have been our shooter. The latter could have traveled down in the
elevator which Williams left behind. On the first floor, Baker and Truly
could have seen and heard said elevator coming and waited patiently for
it. Then, after an awkward moment,Truly vouches for the man, and that's
that. Right?
However, the ease with which Williams transformed the details of his story
suggests that NEITHER version of that story was true, that there was
actually no sixth-floor shooter, that there was no Stair Man, no Elevator
Man. The stair story need never have been invented, though it was well
and thoroughly "documented". If Williams did see Baker come up on the
elevator, well, that fortuitously fit the A story, the Elevator Man story.
But, for some reason, the Bright Boys behind the cover-up couldn't accept
the unexpected gift of serendipity.
They should have: The Williams changes to the story--beginning with his
11/22 affidavit and his 11/23 FBI interview and ending with his Commission
testimony--were too obvious, too obviously geared to the B story, the
Stair Man story. They were not haphazard changes. In fact, the Bright
Boys were going a little crazy stamping out elevator fires: Even in
Williams' 11/22/63 affidavit, the word "elevator" in "We took the elevator
[down] to the 4th floor" had to be changed, by Williams--at the
hearings--to "stairs" (v3p182). You know, just in case....
One wonders, in fact, why the Bright Boys thought it necessary, in the
first place--before the introduction of Baker into the mix--to have
Williams chart their shooter's escape route. Of course, yes, that did
make it look like Someone must have been up there, rather than No One....

Too many witnesses to a rifle sticking out on the 6th floor.

a) No photo, though an early police report states that Bob Jackson saw the
rifle and the man who held the rifle. And Jackson's 11/22 affidavit has
yet to turn up. They're still looking, I'm sure....
b) Most witnesses to a rifle or a suspicious person up there said the
window was wide open. Amos Euins, alone, did say the window was half
open--but also that the man with the rifle was "colored".
c) Fritz picked up the hulls before they could be photographed, so they
could have been found anywhere....

Not exactly. Alyea FILMED then in place before Fritz the Klutz picked
them up.

I've seen the footage purporting to show shells on the floor, but could
not make out anything down there....

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis
dcw

You've never see the picture of the expended cartridge shells in the
sniper's nest? Or the firearms experts finding that they were fired in
and ejected from Oswald's rifle to the exclusion of all other rifles?
Mark

We knew that already. That is not the issue. Stick to the issue.
They could have been planted or some Klutzy cop could have picked them
up from elsewhere in the 6th floor and realize he should not have put
them in his pocket before the crime scene team could photograph then in
place.
OOPS.

[bigdog]

Post by Mark

Post by donald willis

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis

Post by mainframetech

Post by donald willis
Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter
On November 23rd, 1963, witness Bonnie Ray Williams told the FBI of a
"police officer [who] came up on the elevator and looked all around the
fifth floor".
In his Commission testimony the next year, he amended this to: "A
motorcycle policeman... came up.... He just came around, and around to the
elevator" (v3p180).
This policeman was Patrolman Marrion Baker: "I... went on... up the
stairways... either one or two floors.... I was looking around the
building at the time [depository manager Roy Truly] said, 'Let's take the
elevator', and I just followed him on around."
Besides the "to the elevator" amendment, Williams, before the Commission,
1) "[Williams] descended to the fifth floor, using the stairs...." (FBI"I
took the east elevator down [to the fifth floor]" (v3p171)

I seem to remember the elevator wasn't working at that moment. Maybe
because someone on another floor had the gate open.

Post by donald willis
2) "Williams stated he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would
have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs...."
(FBI) "You cannot see anything coming down [the stairs] from that
position" (v3p1 80)
Curiously, all three changes would move both a sixth-floor suspect and
Baker to the stairs.
Even more curiously, it would seem that no changes in Williams' FBI
interview had to be made, at all, in order to bring a sixth-floor shooter
and Truly together within the time-frame necessary to allow the former to
have been our shooter. The latter could have traveled down in the
elevator which Williams left behind. On the first floor, Baker and Truly
could have seen and heard said elevator coming and waited patiently for
it. Then, after an awkward moment,Truly vouches for the man, and that's
that. Right?
However, the ease with which Williams transformed the details of his story
suggests that NEITHER version of that story was true, that there was
actually no sixth-floor shooter, that there was no Stair Man, no Elevator
Man. The stair story need never have been invented, though it was well
and thoroughly "documented". If Williams did see Baker come up on the
elevator, well, that fortuitously fit the A story, the Elevator Man story.
But, for some reason, the Bright Boys behind the cover-up couldn't accept
the unexpected gift of serendipity.
They should have: The Williams changes to the story--beginning with his
11/22 affidavit and his 11/23 FBI interview and ending with his Commission
testimony--were too obvious, too obviously geared to the B story, the
Stair Man story. They were not haphazard changes. In fact, the Bright
Boys were going a little crazy stamping out elevator fires: Even in
Williams' 11/22/63 affidavit, the word "elevator" in "We took the elevator
[down] to the 4th floor" had to be changed, by Williams--at the
hearings--to "stairs" (v3p182). You know, just in case....
One wonders, in fact, why the Bright Boys thought it necessary, in the
first place--before the introduction of Baker into the mix--to have
Williams chart their shooter's escape route. Of course, yes, that did
make it look like Someone must have been up there, rather than No One....

Too many witnesses to a rifle sticking out on the 6th floor.

a) No photo, though an early police report states that Bob Jackson saw the
rifle and the man who held the rifle. And Jackson's 11/22 affidavit has
yet to turn up. They're still looking, I'm sure....
b) Most witnesses to a rifle or a suspicious person up there said the
window was wide open. Amos Euins, alone, did say the window was half
open--but also that the man with the rifle was "colored".
c) Fritz picked up the hulls before they could be photographed, so they
could have been found anywhere....

Not exactly. Alyea FILMED then in place before Fritz the Klutz picked
them up.

I've seen the footage purporting to show shells on the floor, but could
not make out anything down there....

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis
dcw

You've never see the picture of the expended cartridge shells in the
sniper's nest? Or the firearms experts finding that they were fired in
and ejected from Oswald's rifle to the exclusion of all other rifles?

I can't remember the source but somebody pointed out that the ejection
pattern of the three shells was consistent with the rifle pointed downward
when the first shell was ejected and pointing down Elm St. when the next
two were ejected. The latter two would have ejected toward the wall of
boxes while the first would have ejected toward the opening in the nest.
Maybe someone can enlighten me on where I might have read that.

[InsideSparta]

Post by bigdog

Post by Mark

Post by donald willis

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis

Post by mainframetech

Post by donald willis
Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter
On November 23rd, 1963, witness Bonnie Ray Williams told the FBI of a
"police officer [who] came up on the elevator and looked all around the
fifth floor".
In his Commission testimony the next year, he amended this to: "A
motorcycle policeman... came up.... He just came around, and around to the
elevator" (v3p180).
This policeman was Patrolman Marrion Baker: "I... went on... up the
stairways... either one or two floors.... I was looking around the
building at the time [depository manager Roy Truly] said, 'Let's take the
elevator', and I just followed him on around."
Besides the "to the elevator" amendment, Williams, before the Commission,
1) "[Williams] descended to the fifth floor, using the stairs...." (FBI"I
took the east elevator down [to the fifth floor]" (v3p171)

I seem to remember the elevator wasn't working at that moment. Maybe
because someone on another floor had the gate open.

Post by donald willis
2) "Williams stated he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would
have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs...."
(FBI) "You cannot see anything coming down [the stairs] from that
position" (v3p1 80)
Curiously, all three changes would move both a sixth-floor suspect and
Baker to the stairs.
Even more curiously, it would seem that no changes in Williams' FBI
interview had to be made, at all, in order to bring a sixth-floor shooter
and Truly together within the time-frame necessary to allow the former to
have been our shooter. The latter could have traveled down in the
elevator which Williams left behind. On the first floor, Baker and Truly
could have seen and heard said elevator coming and waited patiently for
it. Then, after an awkward moment,Truly vouches for the man, and that's
that. Right?
However, the ease with which Williams transformed the details of his story
suggests that NEITHER version of that story was true, that there was
actually no sixth-floor shooter, that there was no Stair Man, no Elevator
Man. The stair story need never have been invented, though it was well
and thoroughly "documented". If Williams did see Baker come up on the
elevator, well, that fortuitously fit the A story, the Elevator Man story.
But, for some reason, the Bright Boys behind the cover-up couldn't accept
the unexpected gift of serendipity.
They should have: The Williams changes to the story--beginning with his
11/22 affidavit and his 11/23 FBI interview and ending with his Commission
testimony--were too obvious, too obviously geared to the B story, the
Stair Man story. They were not haphazard changes. In fact, the Bright
Boys were going a little crazy stamping out elevator fires: Even in
Williams' 11/22/63 affidavit, the word "elevator" in "We took the elevator
[down] to the 4th floor" had to be changed, by Williams--at the
hearings--to "stairs" (v3p182). You know, just in case....
One wonders, in fact, why the Bright Boys thought it necessary, in the
first place--before the introduction of Baker into the mix--to have
Williams chart their shooter's escape route. Of course, yes, that did
make it look like Someone must have been up there, rather than No One....

Too many witnesses to a rifle sticking out on the 6th floor.

a) No photo, though an early police report states that Bob Jackson saw the
rifle and the man who held the rifle. And Jackson's 11/22 affidavit has
yet to turn up. They're still looking, I'm sure....
b) Most witnesses to a rifle or a suspicious person up there said the
window was wide open. Amos Euins, alone, did say the window was half
open--but also that the man with the rifle was "colored".
c) Fritz picked up the hulls before they could be photographed, so they
could have been found anywhere....

Not exactly. Alyea FILMED then in place before Fritz the Klutz picked
them up.

I've seen the footage purporting to show shells on the floor, but could
not make out anything down there....

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis
dcw

You've never see the picture of the expended cartridge shells in the
sniper's nest? Or the firearms experts finding that they were fired in
and ejected from Oswald's rifle to the exclusion of all other rifles?

I can't remember the source but somebody pointed out that the ejection
pattern of the three shells was consistent with the rifle pointed downward
when the first shell was ejected and pointing down Elm St. when the next
two were ejected. The latter two would have ejected toward the wall of
boxes while the first would have ejected toward the opening in the nest.
Maybe someone can enlighten me on where I might have read that.

That was the study done by Max Holland, as part of "The Lost Bullet",
originally aired on The History Channel. They recreated the sniper's nest
and window, then had a shooter fire at dots on the floor outside the
window that aligned with the angles a shooter would have take if the first
shot were taken as the president's car was passing under the signal light
mast in front of the depository (shot 1), and then at approx. Z225 and
Z313. With each shot, the shooter immediately ejected the shells, in order
to determine where they would have ended up. As it turns out, they ended
up pretty much in the areas where they were photographed being in the
actual sniper's nest.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by InsideSparta

Post by bigdog

Post by Mark

Post by donald willis

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis

Post by mainframetech

Post by donald willis
Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter
On November 23rd, 1963, witness Bonnie Ray Williams told the FBI of a
"police officer [who] came up on the elevator and looked all around the
fifth floor".
In his Commission testimony the next year, he amended this to: "A
motorcycle policeman... came up.... He just came around, and around to the
elevator" (v3p180).
This policeman was Patrolman Marrion Baker: "I... went on... up the
stairways... either one or two floors.... I was looking around the
building at the time [depository manager Roy Truly] said, 'Let's take the
elevator', and I just followed him on around."
Besides the "to the elevator" amendment, Williams, before the Commission,
1) "[Williams] descended to the fifth floor, using the stairs...." (FBI"I
took the east elevator down [to the fifth floor]" (v3p171)

I seem to remember the elevator wasn't working at that moment. Maybe
because someone on another floor had the gate open.

Post by donald willis
2) "Williams stated he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would
have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs...."
(FBI) "You cannot see anything coming down [the stairs] from that
position" (v3p1 80)
Curiously, all three changes would move both a sixth-floor suspect and
Baker to the stairs.
Even more curiously, it would seem that no changes in Williams' FBI
interview had to be made, at all, in order to bring a sixth-floor shooter
and Truly together within the time-frame necessary to allow the former to
have been our shooter. The latter could have traveled down in the
elevator which Williams left behind. On the first floor, Baker and Truly
could have seen and heard said elevator coming and waited patiently for
it. Then, after an awkward moment,Truly vouches for the man, and that's
that. Right?
However, the ease with which Williams transformed the details of his story
suggests that NEITHER version of that story was true, that there was
actually no sixth-floor shooter, that there was no Stair Man, no Elevator
Man. The stair story need never have been invented, though it was well
and thoroughly "documented". If Williams did see Baker come up on the
elevator, well, that fortuitously fit the A story, the Elevator Man story.
But, for some reason, the Bright Boys behind the cover-up couldn't accept
the unexpected gift of serendipity.
They should have: The Williams changes to the story--beginning with his
11/22 affidavit and his 11/23 FBI interview and ending with his Commission
testimony--were too obvious, too obviously geared to the B story, the
Stair Man story. They were not haphazard changes. In fact, the Bright
Boys were going a little crazy stamping out elevator fires: Even in
Williams' 11/22/63 affidavit, the word "elevator" in "We took the elevator
[down] to the 4th floor" had to be changed, by Williams--at the
hearings--to "stairs" (v3p182). You know, just in case....
One wonders, in fact, why the Bright Boys thought it necessary, in the
first place--before the introduction of Baker into the mix--to have
Williams chart their shooter's escape route. Of course, yes, that did
make it look like Someone must have been up there, rather than No One....

Too many witnesses to a rifle sticking out on the 6th floor.

a) No photo, though an early police report states that Bob Jackson saw the
rifle and the man who held the rifle. And Jackson's 11/22 affidavit has
yet to turn up. They're still looking, I'm sure....
b) Most witnesses to a rifle or a suspicious person up there said the
window was wide open. Amos Euins, alone, did say the window was half
open--but also that the man with the rifle was "colored".
c) Fritz picked up the hulls before they could be photographed, so they
could have been found anywhere....

Not exactly. Alyea FILMED then in place before Fritz the Klutz picked
them up.

I've seen the footage purporting to show shells on the floor, but could
not make out anything down there....

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis
dcw

You've never see the picture of the expended cartridge shells in the
sniper's nest? Or the firearms experts finding that they were fired in
and ejected from Oswald's rifle to the exclusion of all other rifles?

I can't remember the source but somebody pointed out that the ejection
pattern of the three shells was consistent with the rifle pointed downward
when the first shell was ejected and pointing down Elm St. when the next
two were ejected. The latter two would have ejected toward the wall of
boxes while the first would have ejected toward the opening in the nest.
Maybe someone can enlighten me on where I might have read that.

That was the study done by Max Holland, as part of "The Lost Bullet",
originally aired on The History Channel. They recreated the sniper's nest
and window, then had a shooter fire at dots on the floor outside the
window that aligned with the angles a shooter would have take if the first
shot were taken as the president's car was passing under the signal light
mast in front of the depository (shot 1), and then at approx. Z225 and
Z313. With each shot, the shooter immediately ejected the shells, in order
to determine where they would have ended up. As it turns out, they ended
up pretty much in the areas where they were photographed being in the
actual sniper's nest.

Well, again, Max tried but he could not replicate the conditions very well.
They did not replicate the sniper's nest.
It might help if you actually showed a clip from that show. We have
discussed it here before.

[bigdog]

Post by InsideSparta

Post by bigdog

Post by Mark

Post by donald willis

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis

Post by mainframetech

Post by donald willis
Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter
On November 23rd, 1963, witness Bonnie Ray Williams told the FBI of a
"police officer [who] came up on the elevator and looked all around the
fifth floor".
In his Commission testimony the next year, he amended this to: "A
motorcycle policeman... came up.... He just came around, and around to the
elevator" (v3p180).
This policeman was Patrolman Marrion Baker: "I... went on... up the
stairways... either one or two floors.... I was looking around the
building at the time [depository manager Roy Truly] said, 'Let's take the
elevator', and I just followed him on around."
Besides the "to the elevator" amendment, Williams, before the Commission,
1) "[Williams] descended to the fifth floor, using the stairs...." (FBI"I
took the east elevator down [to the fifth floor]" (v3p171)

I seem to remember the elevator wasn't working at that moment. Maybe
because someone on another floor had the gate open.

Post by donald willis
2) "Williams stated he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would
have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs...."
(FBI) "You cannot see anything coming down [the stairs] from that
position" (v3p1 80)
Curiously, all three changes would move both a sixth-floor suspect and
Baker to the stairs.
Even more curiously, it would seem that no changes in Williams' FBI
interview had to be made, at all, in order to bring a sixth-floor shooter
and Truly together within the time-frame necessary to allow the former to
have been our shooter. The latter could have traveled down in the
elevator which Williams left behind. On the first floor, Baker and Truly
could have seen and heard said elevator coming and waited patiently for
it. Then, after an awkward moment,Truly vouches for the man, and that's
that. Right?
However, the ease with which Williams transformed the details of his story
suggests that NEITHER version of that story was true, that there was
actually no sixth-floor shooter, that there was no Stair Man, no Elevator
Man. The stair story need never have been invented, though it was well
and thoroughly "documented". If Williams did see Baker come up on the
elevator, well, that fortuitously fit the A story, the Elevator Man story.
But, for some reason, the Bright Boys behind the cover-up couldn't accept
the unexpected gift of serendipity.
They should have: The Williams changes to the story--beginning with his
11/22 affidavit and his 11/23 FBI interview and ending with his Commission
testimony--were too obvious, too obviously geared to the B story, the
Stair Man story. They were not haphazard changes. In fact, the Bright
Boys were going a little crazy stamping out elevator fires: Even in
Williams' 11/22/63 affidavit, the word "elevator" in "We took the elevator
[down] to the 4th floor" had to be changed, by Williams--at the
hearings--to "stairs" (v3p182). You know, just in case....
One wonders, in fact, why the Bright Boys thought it necessary, in the
first place--before the introduction of Baker into the mix--to have
Williams chart their shooter's escape route. Of course, yes, that did
make it look like Someone must have been up there, rather than No One....

Too many witnesses to a rifle sticking out on the 6th floor.

a) No photo, though an early police report states that Bob Jackson saw the
rifle and the man who held the rifle. And Jackson's 11/22 affidavit has
yet to turn up. They're still looking, I'm sure....
b) Most witnesses to a rifle or a suspicious person up there said the
window was wide open. Amos Euins, alone, did say the window was half
open--but also that the man with the rifle was "colored".
c) Fritz picked up the hulls before they could be photographed, so they
could have been found anywhere....

Not exactly. Alyea FILMED then in place before Fritz the Klutz picked
them up.

I've seen the footage purporting to show shells on the floor, but could
not make out anything down there....

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis
dcw

You've never see the picture of the expended cartridge shells in the
sniper's nest? Or the firearms experts finding that they were fired in
and ejected from Oswald's rifle to the exclusion of all other rifles?

I can't remember the source but somebody pointed out that the ejection
pattern of the three shells was consistent with the rifle pointed downward
when the first shell was ejected and pointing down Elm St. when the next
two were ejected. The latter two would have ejected toward the wall of
boxes while the first would have ejected toward the opening in the nest.
Maybe someone can enlighten me on where I might have read that.

That was the study done by Max Holland, as part of "The Lost Bullet",
originally aired on The History Channel. They recreated the sniper's nest
and window, then had a shooter fire at dots on the floor outside the
window that aligned with the angles a shooter would have take if the first
shot were taken as the president's car was passing under the signal light
mast in front of the depository (shot 1), and then at approx. Z225 and
Z313. With each shot, the shooter immediately ejected the shells, in order
to determine where they would have ended up. As it turns out, they ended
up pretty much in the areas where they were photographed being in the
actual sniper's nest.

Thank you. I do remember that now. I was pretty sure I had read or heard
it somewhere but was fuzzy as to the source. I did see the first part of
that presentation and it had some useful information such as this but then
I think it left the rails.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by bigdog

Post by Mark

Post by donald willis

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis

Post by mainframetech

Post by donald willis
Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter
On November 23rd, 1963, witness Bonnie Ray Williams told the FBI of a
"police officer [who] came up on the elevator and looked all around the
fifth floor".
In his Commission testimony the next year, he amended this to: "A
motorcycle policeman... came up.... He just came around, and around to the
elevator" (v3p180).
This policeman was Patrolman Marrion Baker: "I... went on... up the
stairways... either one or two floors.... I was looking around the
building at the time [depository manager Roy Truly] said, 'Let's take the
elevator', and I just followed him on around."
Besides the "to the elevator" amendment, Williams, before the Commission,
1) "[Williams] descended to the fifth floor, using the stairs...." (FBI"I
took the east elevator down [to the fifth floor]" (v3p171)

I seem to remember the elevator wasn't working at that moment. Maybe
because someone on another floor had the gate open.

Post by donald willis
2) "Williams stated he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would
have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs...."
(FBI) "You cannot see anything coming down [the stairs] from that
position" (v3p1 80)
Curiously, all three changes would move both a sixth-floor suspect and
Baker to the stairs.
Even more curiously, it would seem that no changes in Williams' FBI
interview had to be made, at all, in order to bring a sixth-floor shooter
and Truly together within the time-frame necessary to allow the former to
have been our shooter. The latter could have traveled down in the
elevator which Williams left behind. On the first floor, Baker and Truly
could have seen and heard said elevator coming and waited patiently for
it. Then, after an awkward moment,Truly vouches for the man, and that's
that. Right?
However, the ease with which Williams transformed the details of his story
suggests that NEITHER version of that story was true, that there was
actually no sixth-floor shooter, that there was no Stair Man, no Elevator
Man. The stair story need never have been invented, though it was well
and thoroughly "documented". If Williams did see Baker come up on the
elevator, well, that fortuitously fit the A story, the Elevator Man story.
But, for some reason, the Bright Boys behind the cover-up couldn't accept
the unexpected gift of serendipity.
They should have: The Williams changes to the story--beginning with his
11/22 affidavit and his 11/23 FBI interview and ending with his Commission
testimony--were too obvious, too obviously geared to the B story, the
Stair Man story. They were not haphazard changes. In fact, the Bright
Boys were going a little crazy stamping out elevator fires: Even in
Williams' 11/22/63 affidavit, the word "elevator" in "We took the elevator
[down] to the 4th floor" had to be changed, by Williams--at the
hearings--to "stairs" (v3p182). You know, just in case....
One wonders, in fact, why the Bright Boys thought it necessary, in the
first place--before the introduction of Baker into the mix--to have
Williams chart their shooter's escape route. Of course, yes, that did
make it look like Someone must have been up there, rather than No One....

Too many witnesses to a rifle sticking out on the 6th floor.

a) No photo, though an early police report states that Bob Jackson saw the
rifle and the man who held the rifle. And Jackson's 11/22 affidavit has
yet to turn up. They're still looking, I'm sure....
b) Most witnesses to a rifle or a suspicious person up there said the
window was wide open. Amos Euins, alone, did say the window was half
open--but also that the man with the rifle was "colored".
c) Fritz picked up the hulls before they could be photographed, so they
could have been found anywhere....

Not exactly. Alyea FILMED then in place before Fritz the Klutz picked
them up.

I've seen the footage purporting to show shells on the floor, but could
not make out anything down there....

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis
dcw

You've never see the picture of the expended cartridge shells in the
sniper's nest? Or the firearms experts finding that they were fired in
and ejected from Oswald's rifle to the exclusion of all other rifles?

I can't remember the source but somebody pointed out that the ejection
pattern of the three shells was consistent with the rifle pointed downward
when the first shell was ejected and pointing down Elm St. when the next
two were ejected. The latter two would have ejected toward the wall of
boxes while the first would have ejected toward the opening in the nest.
Maybe someone can enlighten me on where I might have read that.

I think it was on a TV show.
There is something to that, except that the shells were planted there by
Fritz.

Frazier tested the ejection pattern:

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0134b.htm

[donald willis]

Post by bigdog

Post by Mark

Post by donald willis

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis

Post by mainframetech

Post by donald willis
Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter
On November 23rd, 1963, witness Bonnie Ray Williams told the FBI of a
"police officer [who] came up on the elevator and looked all around the
fifth floor".
In his Commission testimony the next year, he amended this to: "A
motorcycle policeman... came up.... He just came around, and around to the
elevator" (v3p180).
This policeman was Patrolman Marrion Baker: "I... went on... up the
stairways... either one or two floors.... I was looking around the
building at the time [depository manager Roy Truly] said, 'Let's take the
elevator', and I just followed him on around."
Besides the "to the elevator" amendment, Williams, before the Commission,
1) "[Williams] descended to the fifth floor, using the stairs...." (FBI"I
took the east elevator down [to the fifth floor]" (v3p171)

I seem to remember the elevator wasn't working at that moment. Maybe
because someone on another floor had the gate open.

Post by donald willis
2) "Williams stated he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would
have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs...."
(FBI) "You cannot see anything coming down [the stairs] from that
position" (v3p1 80)
Curiously, all three changes would move both a sixth-floor suspect and
Baker to the stairs.
Even more curiously, it would seem that no changes in Williams' FBI
interview had to be made, at all, in order to bring a sixth-floor shooter
and Truly together within the time-frame necessary to allow the former to
have been our shooter. The latter could have traveled down in the
elevator which Williams left behind. On the first floor, Baker and Truly
could have seen and heard said elevator coming and waited patiently for
it. Then, after an awkward moment,Truly vouches for the man, and that's
that. Right?
However, the ease with which Williams transformed the details of his story
suggests that NEITHER version of that story was true, that there was
actually no sixth-floor shooter, that there was no Stair Man, no Elevator
Man. The stair story need never have been invented, though it was well
and thoroughly "documented". If Williams did see Baker come up on the
elevator, well, that fortuitously fit the A story, the Elevator Man story.
But, for some reason, the Bright Boys behind the cover-up couldn't accept
the unexpected gift of serendipity.
They should have: The Williams changes to the story--beginning with his
11/22 affidavit and his 11/23 FBI interview and ending with his Commission
testimony--were too obvious, too obviously geared to the B story, the
Stair Man story. They were not haphazard changes. In fact, the Bright
Boys were going a little crazy stamping out elevator fires: Even in
Williams' 11/22/63 affidavit, the word "elevator" in "We took the elevator
[down] to the 4th floor" had to be changed, by Williams--at the
hearings--to "stairs" (v3p182). You know, just in case....
One wonders, in fact, why the Bright Boys thought it necessary, in the
first place--before the introduction of Baker into the mix--to have
Williams chart their shooter's escape route. Of course, yes, that did
make it look like Someone must have been up there, rather than No One....

Too many witnesses to a rifle sticking out on the 6th floor.

a) No photo, though an early police report states that Bob Jackson saw the
rifle and the man who held the rifle. And Jackson's 11/22 affidavit has
yet to turn up. They're still looking, I'm sure....
b) Most witnesses to a rifle or a suspicious person up there said the
window was wide open. Amos Euins, alone, did say the window was half
open--but also that the man with the rifle was "colored".
c) Fritz picked up the hulls before they could be photographed, so they
could have been found anywhere....

Not exactly. Alyea FILMED then in place before Fritz the Klutz picked
them up.

I've seen the footage purporting to show shells on the floor, but could
not make out anything down there....

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis
dcw

You've never see the picture of the expended cartridge shells in the
sniper's nest? Or the firearms experts finding that they were fired in
and ejected from Oswald's rifle to the exclusion of all other rifles?

I can't remember the source but somebody pointed out that the ejection
pattern of the three shells was consistent with the rifle pointed downward
when the first shell was ejected and pointing down Elm St. when the next
two were ejected. The latter two would have ejected toward the wall of
boxes while the first would have ejected toward the opening in the nest.
Maybe someone can enlighten me on where I might have read that.

That might work if Sgt. Gerald Hill and Deputy Roger Craig were wrong, and
all three hulls were NOT lying against the outer wall, before Capn Fritz
picked them up....

[claviger]

Post by donald willis

Post by bigdog
I can't remember the source but somebody pointed out that the ejection
pattern of the three shells was consistent with the rifle pointed downward
when the first shell was ejected and pointing down Elm St. when the next
two were ejected. The latter two would have ejected toward the wall of
boxes while the first would have ejected toward the opening in the nest.
Maybe someone can enlighten me on where I might have read that.

That might work if Sgt. Gerald Hill and Deputy Roger Craig were wrong, and
all three hulls were NOT lying against the outer wall, before Capn Fritz
picked them up....

And how this is relevant?

[donald willis]

Post by Mark

Post by donald willis

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis

Post by mainframetech

Post by donald willis
Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter
On November 23rd, 1963, witness Bonnie Ray Williams told the FBI of a
"police officer [who] came up on the elevator and looked all around the
fifth floor".
In his Commission testimony the next year, he amended this to: "A
motorcycle policeman... came up.... He just came around, and around to the
elevator" (v3p180).
This policeman was Patrolman Marrion Baker: "I... went on... up the
stairways... either one or two floors.... I was looking around the
building at the time [depository manager Roy Truly] said, 'Let's take the
elevator', and I just followed him on around."
Besides the "to the elevator" amendment, Williams, before the Commission,
1) "[Williams] descended to the fifth floor, using the stairs...." (FBI"I
took the east elevator down [to the fifth floor]" (v3p171)

I seem to remember the elevator wasn't working at that moment. Maybe
because someone on another floor had the gate open.

Post by donald willis
2) "Williams stated he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would
have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs...."
(FBI) "You cannot see anything coming down [the stairs] from that
position" (v3p1 80)
Curiously, all three changes would move both a sixth-floor suspect and
Baker to the stairs.
Even more curiously, it would seem that no changes in Williams' FBI
interview had to be made, at all, in order to bring a sixth-floor shooter
and Truly together within the time-frame necessary to allow the former to
have been our shooter. The latter could have traveled down in the
elevator which Williams left behind. On the first floor, Baker and Truly
could have seen and heard said elevator coming and waited patiently for
it. Then, after an awkward moment,Truly vouches for the man, and that's
that. Right?
However, the ease with which Williams transformed the details of his story
suggests that NEITHER version of that story was true, that there was
actually no sixth-floor shooter, that there was no Stair Man, no Elevator
Man. The stair story need never have been invented, though it was well
and thoroughly "documented". If Williams did see Baker come up on the
elevator, well, that fortuitously fit the A story, the Elevator Man story.
But, for some reason, the Bright Boys behind the cover-up couldn't accept
the unexpected gift of serendipity.
They should have: The Williams changes to the story--beginning with his
11/22 affidavit and his 11/23 FBI interview and ending with his Commission
testimony--were too obvious, too obviously geared to the B story, the
Stair Man story. They were not haphazard changes. In fact, the Bright
Boys were going a little crazy stamping out elevator fires: Even in
Williams' 11/22/63 affidavit, the word "elevator" in "We took the elevator
[down] to the 4th floor" had to be changed, by Williams--at the
hearings--to "stairs" (v3p182). You know, just in case....
One wonders, in fact, why the Bright Boys thought it necessary, in the
first place--before the introduction of Baker into the mix--to have
Williams chart their shooter's escape route. Of course, yes, that did
make it look like Someone must have been up there, rather than No One....

Too many witnesses to a rifle sticking out on the 6th floor.

a) No photo, though an early police report states that Bob Jackson saw the
rifle and the man who held the rifle. And Jackson's 11/22 affidavit has
yet to turn up. They're still looking, I'm sure....
b) Most witnesses to a rifle or a suspicious person up there said the
window was wide open. Amos Euins, alone, did say the window was half
open--but also that the man with the rifle was "colored".
c) Fritz picked up the hulls before they could be photographed, so they
could have been found anywhere....

Not exactly. Alyea FILMED then in place before Fritz the Klutz picked
them up.

I've seen the footage purporting to show shells on the floor, but could
not make out anything down there....

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis
dcw

You've never see the picture of the expended cartridge shells in the
sniper's nest?

The subject was reporter Tom Alyea's footage of the "nest", taken before
Fritz played pickup stix with the hulls....

dcw

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Post by donald willis

Post by Mark

Post by donald willis

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis

Post by mainframetech

Post by donald willis
Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter
On November 23rd, 1963, witness Bonnie Ray Williams told the FBI of a
"police officer [who] came up on the elevator and looked all around the
fifth floor".
In his Commission testimony the next year, he amended this to: "A
motorcycle policeman... came up.... He just came around, and around to the
elevator" (v3p180).
This policeman was Patrolman Marrion Baker: "I... went on... up the
stairways... either one or two floors.... I was looking around the
building at the time [depository manager Roy Truly] said, 'Let's take the
elevator', and I just followed him on around."
Besides the "to the elevator" amendment, Williams, before the Commission,
1) "[Williams] descended to the fifth floor, using the stairs...." (FBI"I
took the east elevator down [to the fifth floor]" (v3p171)

I seem to remember the elevator wasn't working at that moment. Maybe
because someone on another floor had the gate open.

Post by donald willis
2) "Williams stated he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would
have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs...."
(FBI) "You cannot see anything coming down [the stairs] from that
position" (v3p1 80)
Curiously, all three changes would move both a sixth-floor suspect and
Baker to the stairs.
Even more curiously, it would seem that no changes in Williams' FBI
interview had to be made, at all, in order to bring a sixth-floor shooter
and Truly together within the time-frame necessary to allow the former to
have been our shooter. The latter could have traveled down in the
elevator which Williams left behind. On the first floor, Baker and Truly
could have seen and heard said elevator coming and waited patiently for
it. Then, after an awkward moment,Truly vouches for the man, and that's
that. Right?
However, the ease with which Williams transformed the details of his story
suggests that NEITHER version of that story was true, that there was
actually no sixth-floor shooter, that there was no Stair Man, no Elevator
Man. The stair story need never have been invented, though it was well
and thoroughly "documented". If Williams did see Baker come up on the
elevator, well, that fortuitously fit the A story, the Elevator Man story.
But, for some reason, the Bright Boys behind the cover-up couldn't accept
the unexpected gift of serendipity.
They should have: The Williams changes to the story--beginning with his
11/22 affidavit and his 11/23 FBI interview and ending with his Commission
testimony--were too obvious, too obviously geared to the B story, the
Stair Man story. They were not haphazard changes. In fact, the Bright
Boys were going a little crazy stamping out elevator fires: Even in
Williams' 11/22/63 affidavit, the word "elevator" in "We took the elevator
[down] to the 4th floor" had to be changed, by Williams--at the
hearings--to "stairs" (v3p182). You know, just in case....
One wonders, in fact, why the Bright Boys thought it necessary, in the
first place--before the introduction of Baker into the mix--to have
Williams chart their shooter's escape route. Of course, yes, that did
make it look like Someone must have been up there, rather than No One....

Too many witnesses to a rifle sticking out on the 6th floor.

a) No photo, though an early police report states that Bob Jackson saw the
rifle and the man who held the rifle. And Jackson's 11/22 affidavit has
yet to turn up. They're still looking, I'm sure....
b) Most witnesses to a rifle or a suspicious person up there said the
window was wide open. Amos Euins, alone, did say the window was half
open--but also that the man with the rifle was "colored".
c) Fritz picked up the hulls before they could be photographed, so they
could have been found anywhere....

Not exactly. Alyea FILMED then in place before Fritz the Klutz picked
them up.

I've seen the footage purporting to show shells on the floor, but could
not make out anything down there....

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis
dcw

You've never see the picture of the expended cartridge shells in the
sniper's nest?

The subject was reporter Tom Alyea's footage of the "nest", taken before
Fritz played pickup stix with the hulls....
dcw

So you acknowledge that the shells WERE indeed on the floor of that window
BEFORE Fritz picked them up? If I understand you correctly, you believe
they were planted? There was no shooter on the 6th floor?

You seem to be focusing on the wrong evidence here. The key isn't that
Fritz picked them up AFTER discovery; the key is where they were
discovered.

[donald willis]

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by donald willis

Post by Mark

Post by donald willis

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis

Post by mainframetech

Post by donald willis
Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter
On November 23rd, 1963, witness Bonnie Ray Williams told the FBI of a
"police officer [who] came up on the elevator and looked all around the
fifth floor".
In his Commission testimony the next year, he amended this to: "A
motorcycle policeman... came up.... He just came around, and around to the
elevator" (v3p180).
This policeman was Patrolman Marrion Baker: "I... went on... up the
stairways... either one or two floors.... I was looking around the
building at the time [depository manager Roy Truly] said, 'Let's take the
elevator', and I just followed him on around."
Besides the "to the elevator" amendment, Williams, before the Commission,
1) "[Williams] descended to the fifth floor, using the stairs...." (FBI"I
took the east elevator down [to the fifth floor]" (v3p171)

I seem to remember the elevator wasn't working at that moment. Maybe
because someone on another floor had the gate open.

Post by donald willis
2) "Williams stated he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would
have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs...."
(FBI) "You cannot see anything coming down [the stairs] from that
position" (v3p1 80)
Curiously, all three changes would move both a sixth-floor suspect and
Baker to the stairs.
Even more curiously, it would seem that no changes in Williams' FBI
interview had to be made, at all, in order to bring a sixth-floor shooter
and Truly together within the time-frame necessary to allow the former to
have been our shooter. The latter could have traveled down in the
elevator which Williams left behind. On the first floor, Baker and Truly
could have seen and heard said elevator coming and waited patiently for
it. Then, after an awkward moment,Truly vouches for the man, and that's
that. Right?
However, the ease with which Williams transformed the details of his story
suggests that NEITHER version of that story was true, that there was
actually no sixth-floor shooter, that there was no Stair Man, no Elevator
Man. The stair story need never have been invented, though it was well
and thoroughly "documented". If Williams did see Baker come up on the
elevator, well, that fortuitously fit the A story, the Elevator Man story.
But, for some reason, the Bright Boys behind the cover-up couldn't accept
the unexpected gift of serendipity.
They should have: The Williams changes to the story--beginning with his
11/22 affidavit and his 11/23 FBI interview and ending with his Commission
testimony--were too obvious, too obviously geared to the B story, the
Stair Man story. They were not haphazard changes. In fact, the Bright
Boys were going a little crazy stamping out elevator fires: Even in
Williams' 11/22/63 affidavit, the word "elevator" in "We took the elevator
[down] to the 4th floor" had to be changed, by Williams--at the
hearings--to "stairs" (v3p182). You know, just in case....
One wonders, in fact, why the Bright Boys thought it necessary, in the
first place--before the introduction of Baker into the mix--to have
Williams chart their shooter's escape route. Of course, yes, that did
make it look like Someone must have been up there, rather than No One....

Too many witnesses to a rifle sticking out on the 6th floor.

a) No photo, though an early police report states that Bob Jackson saw the
rifle and the man who held the rifle. And Jackson's 11/22 affidavit has
yet to turn up. They're still looking, I'm sure....
b) Most witnesses to a rifle or a suspicious person up there said the
window was wide open. Amos Euins, alone, did say the window was half
open--but also that the man with the rifle was "colored".
c) Fritz picked up the hulls before they could be photographed, so they
could have been found anywhere....

Not exactly. Alyea FILMED then in place before Fritz the Klutz picked
them up.

I've seen the footage purporting to show shells on the floor, but could
not make out anything down there....

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis
dcw

You've never see the picture of the expended cartridge shells in the
sniper's nest?

The subject was reporter Tom Alyea's footage of the "nest", taken before
Fritz played pickup stix with the hulls....
dcw

So you acknowledge that the shells WERE indeed on the floor of that window
BEFORE Fritz picked them up?

You got me. Or I got me. I should have said something like "Alyea's
footage of the "nest", taken before Fritz transferred the hulls there."

If I understand you correctly, you believe

Post by Steve M. Galbraith
they were planted? There was no shooter on the 6th floor?
You seem to be focusing on the wrong evidence here. The key isn't that
Fritz picked them up AFTER discovery; the key is where they were
discovered.

Yes, and furthermore, yes. And another yes to the previous paragraph, "no
shooter on the 6th floor". I believe that the first person to suggest
this was Walt Cakebread, with whom I agreed about half the time....

dcw

[bigdog]

Post by donald willis

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by donald willis

Post by Mark

Post by donald willis

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis

Post by mainframetech

Post by donald willis
Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter
On November 23rd, 1963, witness Bonnie Ray Williams told the FBI of a
"police officer [who] came up on the elevator and looked all around the
fifth floor".
In his Commission testimony the next year, he amended this to: "A
motorcycle policeman... came up.... He just came around, and around to the
elevator" (v3p180).
This policeman was Patrolman Marrion Baker: "I... went on... up the
stairways... either one or two floors.... I was looking around the
building at the time [depository manager Roy Truly] said, 'Let's take the
elevator', and I just followed him on around."
Besides the "to the elevator" amendment, Williams, before the Commission,
1) "[Williams] descended to the fifth floor, using the stairs...." (FBI"I
took the east elevator down [to the fifth floor]" (v3p171)

I seem to remember the elevator wasn't working at that moment. Maybe
because someone on another floor had the gate open.

Post by donald willis
2) "Williams stated he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would
have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs...."
(FBI) "You cannot see anything coming down [the stairs] from that
position" (v3p1 80)
Curiously, all three changes would move both a sixth-floor suspect and
Baker to the stairs.
Even more curiously, it would seem that no changes in Williams' FBI
interview had to be made, at all, in order to bring a sixth-floor shooter
and Truly together within the time-frame necessary to allow the former to
have been our shooter. The latter could have traveled down in the
elevator which Williams left behind. On the first floor, Baker and Truly
could have seen and heard said elevator coming and waited patiently for
it. Then, after an awkward moment,Truly vouches for the man, and that's
that. Right?
However, the ease with which Williams transformed the details of his story
suggests that NEITHER version of that story was true, that there was
actually no sixth-floor shooter, that there was no Stair Man, no Elevator
Man. The stair story need never have been invented, though it was well
and thoroughly "documented". If Williams did see Baker come up on the
elevator, well, that fortuitously fit the A story, the Elevator Man story.
But, for some reason, the Bright Boys behind the cover-up couldn't accept
the unexpected gift of serendipity.
They should have: The Williams changes to the story--beginning with his
11/22 affidavit and his 11/23 FBI interview and ending with his Commission
testimony--were too obvious, too obviously geared to the B story, the
Stair Man story. They were not haphazard changes. In fact, the Bright
Boys were going a little crazy stamping out elevator fires: Even in
Williams' 11/22/63 affidavit, the word "elevator" in "We took the elevator
[down] to the 4th floor" had to be changed, by Williams--at the
hearings--to "stairs" (v3p182). You know, just in case....
One wonders, in fact, why the Bright Boys thought it necessary, in the
first place--before the introduction of Baker into the mix--to have
Williams chart their shooter's escape route. Of course, yes, that did
make it look like Someone must have been up there, rather than No One....

Too many witnesses to a rifle sticking out on the 6th floor.

a) No photo, though an early police report states that Bob Jackson saw the
rifle and the man who held the rifle. And Jackson's 11/22 affidavit has
yet to turn up. They're still looking, I'm sure....
b) Most witnesses to a rifle or a suspicious person up there said the
window was wide open. Amos Euins, alone, did say the window was half
open--but also that the man with the rifle was "colored".
c) Fritz picked up the hulls before they could be photographed, so they
could have been found anywhere....

Not exactly. Alyea FILMED then in place before Fritz the Klutz picked
them up.

I've seen the footage purporting to show shells on the floor, but could
not make out anything down there....

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis
dcw

You've never see the picture of the expended cartridge shells in the
sniper's nest?

The subject was reporter Tom Alyea's footage of the "nest", taken before
Fritz played pickup stix with the hulls....
dcw

So you acknowledge that the shells WERE indeed on the floor of that window
BEFORE Fritz picked them up?

You got me. Or I got me. I should have said something like "Alyea's
footage of the "nest", taken before Fritz transferred the hulls there."
If I understand you correctly, you believe

Post by Steve M. Galbraith
they were planted? There was no shooter on the 6th floor?
You seem to be focusing on the wrong evidence here. The key isn't that
Fritz picked them up AFTER discovery; the key is where they were
discovered.

Yes, and furthermore, yes. And another yes to the previous paragraph, "no
shooter on the 6th floor". I believe that the first person to suggest
this was Walt Cakebread, with whom I agreed about half the time....

That means you were wrong at least half the time.

It is truly amazing the things people like you will dream up that runs
contrary to overwhelming evidence.

[donald willis]

Post by bigdog

Post by donald willis

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by donald willis

Post by Mark

Post by donald willis

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis

Post by mainframetech

Post by donald willis
Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter
On November 23rd, 1963, witness Bonnie Ray Williams told the FBI of a
"police officer [who] came up on the elevator and looked all around the
fifth floor".
In his Commission testimony the next year, he amended this to: "A
motorcycle policeman... came up.... He just came around, and around to the
elevator" (v3p180).
This policeman was Patrolman Marrion Baker: "I... went on... up the
stairways... either one or two floors.... I was looking around the
building at the time [depository manager Roy Truly] said, 'Let's take the
elevator', and I just followed him on around."
Besides the "to the elevator" amendment, Williams, before the Commission,
1) "[Williams] descended to the fifth floor, using the stairs...." (FBI"I
took the east elevator down [to the fifth floor]" (v3p171)

I seem to remember the elevator wasn't working at that moment. Maybe
because someone on another floor had the gate open.

Post by donald willis
2) "Williams stated he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would
have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs...."
(FBI) "You cannot see anything coming down [the stairs] from that
position" (v3p1 80)
Curiously, all three changes would move both a sixth-floor suspect and
Baker to the stairs.
Even more curiously, it would seem that no changes in Williams' FBI
interview had to be made, at all, in order to bring a sixth-floor shooter
and Truly together within the time-frame necessary to allow the former to
have been our shooter. The latter could have traveled down in the
elevator which Williams left behind. On the first floor, Baker and Truly
could have seen and heard said elevator coming and waited patiently for
it. Then, after an awkward moment,Truly vouches for the man, and that's
that. Right?
However, the ease with which Williams transformed the details of his story
suggests that NEITHER version of that story was true, that there was
actually no sixth-floor shooter, that there was no Stair Man, no Elevator
Man. The stair story need never have been invented, though it was well
and thoroughly "documented". If Williams did see Baker come up on the
elevator, well, that fortuitously fit the A story, the Elevator Man story.
But, for some reason, the Bright Boys behind the cover-up couldn't accept
the unexpected gift of serendipity.
They should have: The Williams changes to the story--beginning with his
11/22 affidavit and his 11/23 FBI interview and ending with his Commission
testimony--were too obvious, too obviously geared to the B story, the
Stair Man story. They were not haphazard changes. In fact, the Bright
Boys were going a little crazy stamping out elevator fires: Even in
Williams' 11/22/63 affidavit, the word "elevator" in "We took the elevator
[down] to the 4th floor" had to be changed, by Williams--at the
hearings--to "stairs" (v3p182). You know, just in case....
One wonders, in fact, why the Bright Boys thought it necessary, in the
first place--before the introduction of Baker into the mix--to have
Williams chart their shooter's escape route. Of course, yes, that did
make it look like Someone must have been up there, rather than No One....

Too many witnesses to a rifle sticking out on the 6th floor.

a) No photo, though an early police report states that Bob Jackson saw the
rifle and the man who held the rifle. And Jackson's 11/22 affidavit has
yet to turn up. They're still looking, I'm sure....
b) Most witnesses to a rifle or a suspicious person up there said the
window was wide open. Amos Euins, alone, did say the window was half
open--but also that the man with the rifle was "colored".
c) Fritz picked up the hulls before they could be photographed, so they
could have been found anywhere....

Not exactly. Alyea FILMED then in place before Fritz the Klutz picked
them up.

I've seen the footage purporting to show shells on the floor, but could
not make out anything down there....

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis
dcw

You've never see the picture of the expended cartridge shells in the
sniper's nest?

The subject was reporter Tom Alyea's footage of the "nest", taken before
Fritz played pickup stix with the hulls....
dcw

So you acknowledge that the shells WERE indeed on the floor of that window
BEFORE Fritz picked them up?

You got me. Or I got me. I should have said something like "Alyea's
footage of the "nest", taken before Fritz transferred the hulls there."
If I understand you correctly, you believe

Post by Steve M. Galbraith
they were planted? There was no shooter on the 6th floor?
You seem to be focusing on the wrong evidence here. The key isn't that
Fritz picked them up AFTER discovery; the key is where they were
discovered.

Yes, and furthermore, yes. And another yes to the previous paragraph, "no
shooter on the 6th floor". I believe that the first person to suggest
this was Walt Cakebread, with whom I agreed about half the time....

That means you were wrong at least half the time.

Touche!

Post by bigdog
It is truly amazing the things people like you will dream up that runs
contrary to overwhelming evidence.

Whelming at best

[Mark]

Post by donald willis

Post by Mark

Post by donald willis

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis

Post by mainframetech

Post by donald willis
Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter
On November 23rd, 1963, witness Bonnie Ray Williams told the FBI of a
"police officer [who] came up on the elevator and looked all around the
fifth floor".
In his Commission testimony the next year, he amended this to: "A
motorcycle policeman... came up.... He just came around, and around to the
elevator" (v3p180).
This policeman was Patrolman Marrion Baker: "I... went on... up the
stairways... either one or two floors.... I was looking around the
building at the time [depository manager Roy Truly] said, 'Let's take the
elevator', and I just followed him on around."
Besides the "to the elevator" amendment, Williams, before the Commission,
1) "[Williams] descended to the fifth floor, using the stairs...." (FBI"I
took the east elevator down [to the fifth floor]" (v3p171)

I seem to remember the elevator wasn't working at that moment. Maybe
because someone on another floor had the gate open.

Post by donald willis
2) "Williams stated he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would
have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs...."
(FBI) "You cannot see anything coming down [the stairs] from that
position" (v3p1 80)
Curiously, all three changes would move both a sixth-floor suspect and
Baker to the stairs.
Even more curiously, it would seem that no changes in Williams' FBI
interview had to be made, at all, in order to bring a sixth-floor shooter
and Truly together within the time-frame necessary to allow the former to
have been our shooter. The latter could have traveled down in the
elevator which Williams left behind. On the first floor, Baker and Truly
could have seen and heard said elevator coming and waited patiently for
it. Then, after an awkward moment,Truly vouches for the man, and that's
that. Right?
However, the ease with which Williams transformed the details of his story
suggests that NEITHER version of that story was true, that there was
actually no sixth-floor shooter, that there was no Stair Man, no Elevator
Man. The stair story need never have been invented, though it was well
and thoroughly "documented". If Williams did see Baker come up on the
elevator, well, that fortuitously fit the A story, the Elevator Man story.
But, for some reason, the Bright Boys behind the cover-up couldn't accept
the unexpected gift of serendipity.
They should have: The Williams changes to the story--beginning with his
11/22 affidavit and his 11/23 FBI interview and ending with his Commission
testimony--were too obvious, too obviously geared to the B story, the
Stair Man story. They were not haphazard changes. In fact, the Bright
Boys were going a little crazy stamping out elevator fires: Even in
Williams' 11/22/63 affidavit, the word "elevator" in "We took the elevator
[down] to the 4th floor" had to be changed, by Williams--at the
hearings--to "stairs" (v3p182). You know, just in case....
One wonders, in fact, why the Bright Boys thought it necessary, in the
first place--before the introduction of Baker into the mix--to have
Williams chart their shooter's escape route. Of course, yes, that did
make it look like Someone must have been up there, rather than No One....

Too many witnesses to a rifle sticking out on the 6th floor.

a) No photo, though an early police report states that Bob Jackson saw the
rifle and the man who held the rifle. And Jackson's 11/22 affidavit has
yet to turn up. They're still looking, I'm sure....
b) Most witnesses to a rifle or a suspicious person up there said the
window was wide open. Amos Euins, alone, did say the window was half
open--but also that the man with the rifle was "colored".
c) Fritz picked up the hulls before they could be photographed, so they
could have been found anywhere....

Not exactly. Alyea FILMED then in place before Fritz the Klutz picked
them up.

I've seen the footage purporting to show shells on the floor, but could
not make out anything down there....

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis
dcw

You've never see the picture of the expended cartridge shells in the
sniper's nest?

The subject was reporter Tom Alyea's footage of the "nest", taken before
Fritz played pickup stix with the hulls....
dcw

I'll try again. Have you ever seen any type of photographic image of the
expended cartridge shells in the sniper's nest? Mark

[donald willis]

Post by Mark

Post by donald willis

Post by Mark

Post by donald willis

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis

Post by mainframetech

Post by donald willis
Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter
On November 23rd, 1963, witness Bonnie Ray Williams told the FBI of a
"police officer [who] came up on the elevator and looked all around the
fifth floor".
In his Commission testimony the next year, he amended this to: "A
motorcycle policeman... came up.... He just came around, and around to the
elevator" (v3p180).
This policeman was Patrolman Marrion Baker: "I... went on... up the
stairways... either one or two floors.... I was looking around the
building at the time [depository manager Roy Truly] said, 'Let's take the
elevator', and I just followed him on around."
Besides the "to the elevator" amendment, Williams, before the Commission,
1) "[Williams] descended to the fifth floor, using the stairs...." (FBI"I
took the east elevator down [to the fifth floor]" (v3p171)

I seem to remember the elevator wasn't working at that moment. Maybe
because someone on another floor had the gate open.

Post by donald willis
2) "Williams stated he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would
have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs...."
(FBI) "You cannot see anything coming down [the stairs] from that
position" (v3p1 80)
Curiously, all three changes would move both a sixth-floor suspect and
Baker to the stairs.
Even more curiously, it would seem that no changes in Williams' FBI
interview had to be made, at all, in order to bring a sixth-floor shooter
and Truly together within the time-frame necessary to allow the former to
have been our shooter. The latter could have traveled down in the
elevator which Williams left behind. On the first floor, Baker and Truly
could have seen and heard said elevator coming and waited patiently for
it. Then, after an awkward moment,Truly vouches for the man, and that's
that. Right?
However, the ease with which Williams transformed the details of his story
suggests that NEITHER version of that story was true, that there was
actually no sixth-floor shooter, that there was no Stair Man, no Elevator
Man. The stair story need never have been invented, though it was well
and thoroughly "documented". If Williams did see Baker come up on the
elevator, well, that fortuitously fit the A story, the Elevator Man story.
But, for some reason, the Bright Boys behind the cover-up couldn't accept
the unexpected gift of serendipity.
They should have: The Williams changes to the story--beginning with his
11/22 affidavit and his 11/23 FBI interview and ending with his Commission
testimony--were too obvious, too obviously geared to the B story, the
Stair Man story. They were not haphazard changes. In fact, the Bright
Boys were going a little crazy stamping out elevator fires: Even in
Williams' 11/22/63 affidavit, the word "elevator" in "We took the elevator
[down] to the 4th floor" had to be changed, by Williams--at the
hearings--to "stairs" (v3p182). You know, just in case....
One wonders, in fact, why the Bright Boys thought it necessary, in the
first place--before the introduction of Baker into the mix--to have
Williams chart their shooter's escape route. Of course, yes, that did
make it look like Someone must have been up there, rather than No One....

Too many witnesses to a rifle sticking out on the 6th floor.

a) No photo, though an early police report states that Bob Jackson saw the
rifle and the man who held the rifle. And Jackson's 11/22 affidavit has
yet to turn up. They're still looking, I'm sure....
b) Most witnesses to a rifle or a suspicious person up there said the
window was wide open. Amos Euins, alone, did say the window was half
open--but also that the man with the rifle was "colored".
c) Fritz picked up the hulls before they could be photographed, so they
could have been found anywhere....

Not exactly. Alyea FILMED then in place before Fritz the Klutz picked
them up.

I've seen the footage purporting to show shells on the floor, but could
not make out anything down there....

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis
dcw

You've never see the picture of the expended cartridge shells in the
sniper's nest?

The subject was reporter Tom Alyea's footage of the "nest", taken before
Fritz played pickup stix with the hulls....
dcw

I'll try again. Have you ever seen any type of photographic image of the
expended cartridge shells in the sniper's nest? Mark

Yes, the later DPD photos, after, I believe, Fritz put them there.... Or,
if we are to believe later Alyea, after Fritz handed them to Studebaker,
who then put them there. Possible....

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Mark

Post by donald willis

Post by Mark

Post by donald willis

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis

Post by mainframetech

Post by donald willis
Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter
On November 23rd, 1963, witness Bonnie Ray Williams told the FBI of a
"police officer [who] came up on the elevator and looked all around the
fifth floor".
In his Commission testimony the next year, he amended this to: "A
motorcycle policeman... came up.... He just came around, and around to the
elevator" (v3p180).
This policeman was Patrolman Marrion Baker: "I... went on... up the
stairways... either one or two floors.... I was looking around the
building at the time [depository manager Roy Truly] said, 'Let's take the
elevator', and I just followed him on around."
Besides the "to the elevator" amendment, Williams, before the Commission,
1) "[Williams] descended to the fifth floor, using the stairs...." (FBI"I
took the east elevator down [to the fifth floor]" (v3p171)

I seem to remember the elevator wasn't working at that moment. Maybe
because someone on another floor had the gate open.

Post by donald willis
2) "Williams stated he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would
have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs...."
(FBI) "You cannot see anything coming down [the stairs] from that
position" (v3p1 80)
Curiously, all three changes would move both a sixth-floor suspect and
Baker to the stairs.
Even more curiously, it would seem that no changes in Williams' FBI
interview had to be made, at all, in order to bring a sixth-floor shooter
and Truly together within the time-frame necessary to allow the former to
have been our shooter. The latter could have traveled down in the
elevator which Williams left behind. On the first floor, Baker and Truly
could have seen and heard said elevator coming and waited patiently for
it. Then, after an awkward moment,Truly vouches for the man, and that's
that. Right?
However, the ease with which Williams transformed the details of his story
suggests that NEITHER version of that story was true, that there was
actually no sixth-floor shooter, that there was no Stair Man, no Elevator
Man. The stair story need never have been invented, though it was well
and thoroughly "documented". If Williams did see Baker come up on the
elevator, well, that fortuitously fit the A story, the Elevator Man story.
But, for some reason, the Bright Boys behind the cover-up couldn't accept
the unexpected gift of serendipity.
They should have: The Williams changes to the story--beginning with his
11/22 affidavit and his 11/23 FBI interview and ending with his Commission
testimony--were too obvious, too obviously geared to the B story, the
Stair Man story. They were not haphazard changes. In fact, the Bright
Boys were going a little crazy stamping out elevator fires: Even in
Williams' 11/22/63 affidavit, the word "elevator" in "We took the elevator
[down] to the 4th floor" had to be changed, by Williams--at the
hearings--to "stairs" (v3p182). You know, just in case....
One wonders, in fact, why the Bright Boys thought it necessary, in the
first place--before the introduction of Baker into the mix--to have
Williams chart their shooter's escape route. Of course, yes, that did
make it look like Someone must have been up there, rather than No One....

Too many witnesses to a rifle sticking out on the 6th floor.

a) No photo, though an early police report states that Bob Jackson saw the
rifle and the man who held the rifle. And Jackson's 11/22 affidavit has
yet to turn up. They're still looking, I'm sure....
b) Most witnesses to a rifle or a suspicious person up there said the
window was wide open. Amos Euins, alone, did say the window was half
open--but also that the man with the rifle was "colored".
c) Fritz picked up the hulls before they could be photographed, so they
could have been found anywhere....

Not exactly. Alyea FILMED then in place before Fritz the Klutz picked
them up.

I've seen the footage purporting to show shells on the floor, but could
not make out anything down there....

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis
dcw

You've never see the picture of the expended cartridge shells in the
sniper's nest?

The subject was reporter Tom Alyea's footage of the "nest", taken before
Fritz played pickup stix with the hulls....
dcw

I'll try again. Have you ever seen any type of photographic image of the
expended cartridge shells in the sniper's nest? Mark

What's wrong with CE 510?

Loading Image...

[mainframetech]

Post by Mark

Post by donald willis

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis

Post by mainframetech

Post by donald willis
Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter
On November 23rd, 1963, witness Bonnie Ray Williams told the FBI of a
"police officer [who] came up on the elevator and looked all around the
fifth floor".
In his Commission testimony the next year, he amended this to: "A
motorcycle policeman... came up.... He just came around, and around to the
elevator" (v3p180).
This policeman was Patrolman Marrion Baker: "I... went on... up the
stairways... either one or two floors.... I was looking around the
building at the time [depository manager Roy Truly] said, 'Let's take the
elevator', and I just followed him on around."
Besides the "to the elevator" amendment, Williams, before the Commission,
1) "[Williams] descended to the fifth floor, using the stairs...." (FBI"I
took the east elevator down [to the fifth floor]" (v3p171)

I seem to remember the elevator wasn't working at that moment. Maybe
because someone on another floor had the gate open.

Post by donald willis
2) "Williams stated he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would
have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs...."
(FBI) "You cannot see anything coming down [the stairs] from that
position" (v3p1 80)
Curiously, all three changes would move both a sixth-floor suspect and
Baker to the stairs.
Even more curiously, it would seem that no changes in Williams' FBI
interview had to be made, at all, in order to bring a sixth-floor shooter
and Truly together within the time-frame necessary to allow the former to
have been our shooter. The latter could have traveled down in the
elevator which Williams left behind. On the first floor, Baker and Truly
could have seen and heard said elevator coming and waited patiently for
it. Then, after an awkward moment,Truly vouches for the man, and that's
that. Right?
However, the ease with which Williams transformed the details of his story
suggests that NEITHER version of that story was true, that there was
actually no sixth-floor shooter, that there was no Stair Man, no Elevator
Man. The stair story need never have been invented, though it was well
and thoroughly "documented". If Williams did see Baker come up on the
elevator, well, that fortuitously fit the A story, the Elevator Man story.
But, for some reason, the Bright Boys behind the cover-up couldn't accept
the unexpected gift of serendipity.
They should have: The Williams changes to the story--beginning with his
11/22 affidavit and his 11/23 FBI interview and ending with his Commission
testimony--were too obvious, too obviously geared to the B story, the
Stair Man story. They were not haphazard changes. In fact, the Bright
Boys were going a little crazy stamping out elevator fires: Even in
Williams' 11/22/63 affidavit, the word "elevator" in "We took the elevator
[down] to the 4th floor" had to be changed, by Williams--at the
hearings--to "stairs" (v3p182). You know, just in case....
One wonders, in fact, why the Bright Boys thought it necessary, in the
first place--before the introduction of Baker into the mix--to have
Williams chart their shooter's escape route. Of course, yes, that did
make it look like Someone must have been up there, rather than No One....

Too many witnesses to a rifle sticking out on the 6th floor.

a) No photo, though an early police report states that Bob Jackson saw the
rifle and the man who held the rifle. And Jackson's 11/22 affidavit has
yet to turn up. They're still looking, I'm sure....
b) Most witnesses to a rifle or a suspicious person up there said the
window was wide open. Amos Euins, alone, did say the window was half
open--but also that the man with the rifle was "colored".
c) Fritz picked up the hulls before they could be photographed, so they
could have been found anywhere....

Not exactly. Alyea FILMED then in place before Fritz the Klutz picked
them up.

I've seen the footage purporting to show shells on the floor, but could
not make out anything down there....

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis
dcw

You've never see the picture of the expended cartridge shells in the
sniper's nest? Or the firearms experts finding that they were fired in
and ejected from Oswald's rifle to the exclusion of all other rifles?
Mark

I agree that the shells came from the MC rifle owned by Oswald. Now
figure out who he brought the rifle in to work for, and who was holding it
to fire on the motorcade.

Chris

[bigdog]

Post by mainframetech

Post by Mark

Post by donald willis

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis

Post by mainframetech

Post by donald willis
Bonnie Ray Williams, and the Best Evidence against a Lunchroom Encounter
On November 23rd, 1963, witness Bonnie Ray Williams told the FBI of a
"police officer [who] came up on the elevator and looked all around the
fifth floor".
In his Commission testimony the next year, he amended this to: "A
motorcycle policeman... came up.... He just came around, and around to the
elevator" (v3p180).
This policeman was Patrolman Marrion Baker: "I... went on... up the
stairways... either one or two floors.... I was looking around the
building at the time [depository manager Roy Truly] said, 'Let's take the
elevator', and I just followed him on around."
Besides the "to the elevator" amendment, Williams, before the Commission,
1) "[Williams] descended to the fifth floor, using the stairs...." (FBI"I
took the east elevator down [to the fifth floor]" (v3p171)

I seem to remember the elevator wasn't working at that moment. Maybe
because someone on another floor had the gate open.

Post by donald willis
2) "Williams stated he and Hank and Junior were standing where they would
have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor via the stairs...."
(FBI) "You cannot see anything coming down [the stairs] from that
position" (v3p1 80)
Curiously, all three changes would move both a sixth-floor suspect and
Baker to the stairs.
Even more curiously, it would seem that no changes in Williams' FBI
interview had to be made, at all, in order to bring a sixth-floor shooter
and Truly together within the time-frame necessary to allow the former to
have been our shooter. The latter could have traveled down in the
elevator which Williams left behind. On the first floor, Baker and Truly
could have seen and heard said elevator coming and waited patiently for
it. Then, after an awkward moment,Truly vouches for the man, and that's
that. Right?
However, the ease with which Williams transformed the details of his story
suggests that NEITHER version of that story was true, that there was
actually no sixth-floor shooter, that there was no Stair Man, no Elevator
Man. The stair story need never have been invented, though it was well
and thoroughly "documented". If Williams did see Baker come up on the
elevator, well, that fortuitously fit the A story, the Elevator Man story.
But, for some reason, the Bright Boys behind the cover-up couldn't accept
the unexpected gift of serendipity.
They should have: The Williams changes to the story--beginning with his
11/22 affidavit and his 11/23 FBI interview and ending with his Commission
testimony--were too obvious, too obviously geared to the B story, the
Stair Man story. They were not haphazard changes. In fact, the Bright
Boys were going a little crazy stamping out elevator fires: Even in
Williams' 11/22/63 affidavit, the word "elevator" in "We took the elevator
[down] to the 4th floor" had to be changed, by Williams--at the
hearings--to "stairs" (v3p182). You know, just in case....
One wonders, in fact, why the Bright Boys thought it necessary, in the
first place--before the introduction of Baker into the mix--to have
Williams chart their shooter's escape route. Of course, yes, that did
make it look like Someone must have been up there, rather than No One....

Too many witnesses to a rifle sticking out on the 6th floor.

a) No photo, though an early police report states that Bob Jackson saw the
rifle and the man who held the rifle. And Jackson's 11/22 affidavit has
yet to turn up. They're still looking, I'm sure....
b) Most witnesses to a rifle or a suspicious person up there said the
window was wide open. Amos Euins, alone, did say the window was half
open--but also that the man with the rifle was "colored".
c) Fritz picked up the hulls before they could be photographed, so they
could have been found anywhere....

Not exactly. Alyea FILMED then in place before Fritz the Klutz picked
them up.

I've seen the footage purporting to show shells on the floor, but could
not make out anything down there....

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by donald willis
dcw

You've never see the picture of the expended cartridge shells in the
sniper's nest? Or the firearms experts finding that they were fired in
and ejected from Oswald's rifle to the exclusion of all other rifles?
Mark

I agree that the shells came from the MC rifle owned by Oswald. Now
figure out who he brought the rifle in to work for, and who was holding it
to fire on the motorcade.

Gee, that's a stumper. We've asked you to spell CAT and we've spotted you
the C and the A.