Discussion:
Update: Mortal Error Theory
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claviger
2019-04-04 00:56:55 UTC
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Medium


Hidden in Plain Sight – Bonar Menninger – Medium
https://medium.com/@mokan9997/hidden-in-plain-sight-4761be7b8115

Oct 8, 2017 - Did a Secret Service Agent Accidentally Shoot JFK? .... to
one of America's most tortuous questions has been hidden in plain sight
all along.
Grizzlie Antagonist
2019-04-04 18:15:48 UTC
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Post by claviger
Medium
Hidden in Plain Sight – Bonar Menninger – Medium
Oct 8, 2017 - Did a Secret Service Agent Accidentally Shoot JFK? .... to
one of America's most tortuous questions has been hidden in plain sight
all along.
The possibility that Hickey might have been related to the Kennedy family
is fascinating.

I continue to stay in touch with Bonar Menninger on an on-and-off basis,
and I understand that he is embarking on a project to have an independent
expert review the Bronson film.

It's an exciting prospect that still strikes me as somewhat hit-and-miss
-- the film was taken from a great distance away and may only disclose so
much.

By comparison, it would seem easier for a genealogist to research the
Kennedy and Hickey families to see if there is a connection. I would
assume that there are still some undisturbed records from the late
19th/early 20th centuries available to be retrieved.

Tempus Omnia Revelat!
claviger
2019-04-11 00:15:59 UTC
Reply
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Post by Grizzlie Antagonist
Post by claviger
Medium
Hidden in Plain Sight – Bonar Menninger – Medium
Oct 8, 2017 - Did a Secret Service Agent Accidentally Shoot JFK? .... to
one of America's most tortuous questions has been hidden in plain sight
all along.
The possibility that Hickey might have been related to the Kennedy family
is fascinating.
I continue to stay in touch with Bonar Menninger on an on-and-off basis,
and I understand that he is embarking on a project to have an independent
expert review the Bronson film.
It's an exciting prospect that still strikes me as somewhat hit-and-miss
-- the film was taken from a great distance away and may only disclose so
much.
By comparison, it would seem easier for a genealogist to research the
Kennedy and Hickey families to see if there is a connection. I would
assume that there are still some undisturbed records from the late
19th/early 20th centuries available to be retrieved.
Tempus Omnia Revelat!
Gary Mack would never release the Bronson film to anyone, CT or LN.
It is the only 8mm film taken that day in Dealey Plaza to not be made
available to any outside researchers or film experts in 55 years. From
what I hear Curator Stephen Fagin is considering a change in policy to
allow a national expert to be the first technical observer to inspect the
aging 8mm film, and to assess the condition for any damaged frames,
then to supervise modern procedures to copy this film for researchers
to study in detail. Hopefully that can happen sooner than later.

I like Fagin, he takes a very professional approach to his job as Curator.
He has done an excellent job on the SFMDP witness interview series. I
hope he continues that program. Some witness from Dealey Plaza have
never been interviewed until now.
Mark
2019-04-11 14:42:10 UTC
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Post by claviger
Post by Grizzlie Antagonist
Post by claviger
Medium
Hidden in Plain Sight – Bonar Menninger – Medium
Oct 8, 2017 - Did a Secret Service Agent Accidentally Shoot JFK? .... to
one of America's most tortuous questions has been hidden in plain sight
all along.
The possibility that Hickey might have been related to the Kennedy family
is fascinating.
I continue to stay in touch with Bonar Menninger on an on-and-off basis,
and I understand that he is embarking on a project to have an independent
expert review the Bronson film.
It's an exciting prospect that still strikes me as somewhat hit-and-miss
-- the film was taken from a great distance away and may only disclose so
much.
By comparison, it would seem easier for a genealogist to research the
Kennedy and Hickey families to see if there is a connection. I would
assume that there are still some undisturbed records from the late
19th/early 20th centuries available to be retrieved.
Tempus Omnia Revelat!
Gary Mack would never release the Bronson film to anyone, CT or LN.
It is the only 8mm film taken that day in Dealey Plaza to not be made
available to any outside researchers or film experts in 55 years. From
what I hear Curator Stephen Fagin is considering a change in policy to
allow a national expert to be the first technical observer to inspect the
aging 8mm film, and to assess the condition for any damaged frames,
then to supervise modern procedures to copy this film for researchers
to study in detail. Hopefully that can happen sooner than later.
I like Fagin, he takes a very professional approach to his job as Curator.
He has done an excellent job on the SFMDP witness interview series. I
hope he continues that program. Some witness from Dealey Plaza have
never been interviewed until now.
It only would've taken a phone call. Did you ever call the Sixth Floor
Museum asked what was up with the Bronson film? Or do you feel confident
now because a dead man can't answer your mudslinging?

Mark
claviger
2019-04-12 18:50:11 UTC
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Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Grizzlie Antagonist
Post by claviger
Medium
Hidden in Plain Sight – Bonar Menninger – Medium
Oct 8, 2017 - Did a Secret Service Agent Accidentally Shoot JFK? .... to
one of America's most tortuous questions has been hidden in plain sight
all along.
The possibility that Hickey might have been related to the Kennedy family
is fascinating.
I continue to stay in touch with Bonar Menninger on an on-and-off basis,
and I understand that he is embarking on a project to have an independent
expert review the Bronson film.
It's an exciting prospect that still strikes me as somewhat hit-and-miss
-- the film was taken from a great distance away and may only disclose so
much.
By comparison, it would seem easier for a genealogist to research the
Kennedy and Hickey families to see if there is a connection. I would
assume that there are still some undisturbed records from the late
19th/early 20th centuries available to be retrieved.
Tempus Omnia Revelat!
Gary Mack would never release the Bronson film to anyone, CT or LN.
It is the only 8mm film taken that day in Dealey Plaza to not be made
available to any outside researchers or film experts in 55 years. From
what I hear Curator Stephen Fagin is considering a change in policy to
allow a national expert to be the first technical observer to inspect the
aging 8mm film, and to assess the condition for any damaged frames,
then to supervise modern procedures to copy this film for researchers
to study in detail. Hopefully that can happen sooner than later.
I like Fagin, he takes a very professional approach to his job as Curator.
He has done an excellent job on the SFMDP witness interview series. I
hope he continues that program. Some witness from Dealey Plaza have
never been interviewed until now.
It only would've taken a phone call. Did you ever call the Sixth Floor
Museum asked what was up with the Bronson film?
Yes. I actually got permission from the family in writing and
G. Mack still refused to cooperate.
Post by Mark
Or do you feel confident now because a dead man can't answer
your mudslinging?
See above.
Post by Mark
Mark
donald willis
2019-04-13 19:17:00 UTC
Reply
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Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Grizzlie Antagonist
Post by claviger
Medium
Hidden in Plain Sight – Bonar Menninger – Medium
Oct 8, 2017 - Did a Secret Service Agent Accidentally Shoot JFK? .... to
one of America's most tortuous questions has been hidden in plain sight
all along.
The possibility that Hickey might have been related to the Kennedy family
is fascinating.
I continue to stay in touch with Bonar Menninger on an on-and-off basis,
and I understand that he is embarking on a project to have an independent
expert review the Bronson film.
It's an exciting prospect that still strikes me as somewhat hit-and-miss
-- the film was taken from a great distance away and may only disclose so
much.
By comparison, it would seem easier for a genealogist to research the
Kennedy and Hickey families to see if there is a connection. I would
assume that there are still some undisturbed records from the late
19th/early 20th centuries available to be retrieved.
Tempus Omnia Revelat!
Gary Mack would never release the Bronson film to anyone, CT or LN.
It is the only 8mm film taken that day in Dealey Plaza to not be made
available to any outside researchers or film experts in 55 years. From
what I hear Curator Stephen Fagin is considering a change in policy to
allow a national expert to be the first technical observer to inspect the
aging 8mm film, and to assess the condition for any damaged frames,
then to supervise modern procedures to copy this film for researchers
to study in detail. Hopefully that can happen sooner than later.
I like Fagin, he takes a very professional approach to his job as Curator.
He has done an excellent job on the SFMDP witness interview series. I
hope he continues that program. Some witness from Dealey Plaza have
never been interviewed until now.
It only would've taken a phone call. Did you ever call the Sixth Floor
Museum asked what was up with the Bronson film?
Yes. I actually got permission from the family in writing and
G. Mack still refused to cooperate.
Post by Mark
Or do you feel confident now because a dead man can't answer
your mudslinging?
See above.
Post by Mark
Mark
Quick-Draw MackGraw
claviger
2019-04-12 18:55:39 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Mark
It only would've taken a phone call. Did you ever call the Sixth Floor
Museum asked what was up with the Bronson film? Or do you feel confident
now because a dead man can't answer your mudslinging?
Is the Truth mudsling? I wish he was alive, there is new information
he would like to hear.
Mark
2019-04-13 19:17:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
It only would've taken a phone call. Did you ever call the Sixth Floor
Museum asked what was up with the Bronson film? Or do you feel confident
now because a dead man can't answer your mudslinging?
Is the Truth mudsling? I wish he was alive, there is new information
he would like to hear.
I don't know. (And I assume we're still talking about the Bronson film).
Look, I'm not trying to be a jerk. But before I can judge that, you have
to tell us what this "new information" is.

I can't judge something without knowing what it is. Mark
claviger
2019-04-14 18:18:59 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
It only would've taken a phone call. Did you ever call the Sixth Floor
Museum asked what was up with the Bronson film? Or do you feel confident
now because a dead man can't answer your mudslinging?
Is the Truth mudsling? I wish he was alive, there is new information
he would like to hear.
I don't know. (And I assume we're still talking about the Bronson film).
Look, I'm not trying to be a jerk. But before I can judge that, you have
to tell us what this "new information" is.
I can't judge something without knowing what it is. Mark
We have known about the Bronson Film for some time. This is new technical
information I never heard about before and it is shocking. I have no
authority to speak about it at this time but I understand it will soon be
made public.
donald willis
2019-04-15 19:46:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
It only would've taken a phone call. Did you ever call the Sixth Floor
Museum asked what was up with the Bronson film? Or do you feel confident
now because a dead man can't answer your mudslinging?
Is the Truth mudsling? I wish he was alive, there is new information
he would like to hear.
I don't know. (And I assume we're still talking about the Bronson film).
Look, I'm not trying to be a jerk. But before I can judge that, you have
to tell us what this "new information" is.
I can't judge something without knowing what it is. Mark
We have known about the Bronson Film for some time. This is new technical
information I never heard about before and it is shocking. I have no
authority to speak about it at this time but I understand it will soon be
made public.
Shit! Jack White made a similar claim re two witnesses who knew more than
anyone else, but he couldn't reveal their identities until everyone
concerned was dead. I guess he died before they did, dammit. Maybe those
two witnesses will speak up on their own. Not holding my breath....

Meanwhile, Trump will be releasing his 1040s *soon*....

dcw
bigdog
2019-04-15 19:46:52 UTC
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Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
It only would've taken a phone call. Did you ever call the Sixth Floor
Museum asked what was up with the Bronson film? Or do you feel confident
now because a dead man can't answer your mudslinging?
Is the Truth mudsling? I wish he was alive, there is new information
he would like to hear.
I don't know. (And I assume we're still talking about the Bronson film).
Look, I'm not trying to be a jerk. But before I can judge that, you have
to tell us what this "new information" is.
I can't judge something without knowing what it is. Mark
We have known about the Bronson Film for some time. This is new technical
information I never heard about before and it is shocking. I have no
authority to speak about it at this time but I understand it will soon be
made public.
I can hardly wait.
Mark
2019-04-15 19:51:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
It only would've taken a phone call. Did you ever call the Sixth Floor
Museum asked what was up with the Bronson film? Or do you feel confident
now because a dead man can't answer your mudslinging?
Is the Truth mudsling? I wish he was alive, there is new information
he would like to hear.
I don't know. (And I assume we're still talking about the Bronson film).
Look, I'm not trying to be a jerk. But before I can judge that, you have
to tell us what this "new information" is.
I can't judge something without knowing what it is. Mark
We have known about the Bronson Film for some time. This is new technical
information I never heard about before and it is shocking. I have no
authority to speak about it at this time but I understand it will soon be
made public.
Yes, I'm quite aware the Bronson film has been around. I thought you were
saying this "new technical information" concerned the film. Anyway,
looking forward to seeing what ever it is.

Mark
Anthony Marsh
2019-04-13 03:20:28 UTC
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Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Grizzlie Antagonist
Post by claviger
Medium
Hidden in Plain Sight ??? Bonar Menninger ??? Medium
Oct 8, 2017 - Did a Secret Service Agent Accidentally Shoot JFK? .... to
one of America's most tortuous questions has been hidden in plain sight
all along.
The possibility that Hickey might have been related to the Kennedy family
is fascinating.
I continue to stay in touch with Bonar Menninger on an on-and-off basis,
and I understand that he is embarking on a project to have an independent
expert review the Bronson film.
It's an exciting prospect that still strikes me as somewhat hit-and-miss
-- the film was taken from a great distance away and may only disclose so
much.
By comparison, it would seem easier for a genealogist to research the
Kennedy and Hickey families to see if there is a connection. I would
assume that there are still some undisturbed records from the late
19th/early 20th centuries available to be retrieved.
Tempus Omnia Revelat!
Gary Mack would never release the Bronson film to anyone, CT or LN.
It is the only 8mm film taken that day in Dealey Plaza to not be made
available to any outside researchers or film experts in 55 years. From
what I hear Curator Stephen Fagin is considering a change in policy to
allow a national expert to be the first technical observer to inspect the
aging 8mm film, and to assess the condition for any damaged frames,
then to supervise modern procedures to copy this film for researchers
to study in detail. Hopefully that can happen sooner than later.
I like Fagin, he takes a very professional approach to his job as Curator.
He has done an excellent job on the SFMDP witness interview series. I
hope he continues that program. Some witness from Dealey Plaza have
never been interviewed until now.
It only would've taken a phone call. Did you ever call the Sixth Floor
Museum asked what was up with the Bronson film? Or do you feel confident
now because a dead man can't answer your mudslinging?
Mark
Did you ever talk toGary Mack in person? No. I did up here in Cambridge.
He ran away from me crying like a little baby.
Mark
2019-04-23 00:03:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Grizzlie Antagonist
Post by claviger
Medium
Hidden in Plain Sight ??? Bonar Menninger ??? Medium
Oct 8, 2017 - Did a Secret Service Agent Accidentally Shoot JFK? .... to
one of America's most tortuous questions has been hidden in plain sight
all along.
The possibility that Hickey might have been related to the Kennedy family
is fascinating.
I continue to stay in touch with Bonar Menninger on an on-and-off basis,
and I understand that he is embarking on a project to have an independent
expert review the Bronson film.
It's an exciting prospect that still strikes me as somewhat hit-and-miss
-- the film was taken from a great distance away and may only disclose so
much.
By comparison, it would seem easier for a genealogist to research the
Kennedy and Hickey families to see if there is a connection. I would
assume that there are still some undisturbed records from the late
19th/early 20th centuries available to be retrieved.
Tempus Omnia Revelat!
Gary Mack would never release the Bronson film to anyone, CT or LN.
It is the only 8mm film taken that day in Dealey Plaza to not be made
available to any outside researchers or film experts in 55 years. From
what I hear Curator Stephen Fagin is considering a change in policy to
allow a national expert to be the first technical observer to inspect the
aging 8mm film, and to assess the condition for any damaged frames,
then to supervise modern procedures to copy this film for researchers
to study in detail. Hopefully that can happen sooner than later.
I like Fagin, he takes a very professional approach to his job as Curator.
He has done an excellent job on the SFMDP witness interview series. I
hope he continues that program. Some witness from Dealey Plaza have
never been interviewed until now.
It only would've taken a phone call. Did you ever call the Sixth Floor
Museum asked what was up with the Bronson film? Or do you feel confident
now because a dead man can't answer your mudslinging?
Mark
Did you ever talk toGary Mack in person? No. I did up here in Cambridge.
He ran away from me crying like a little baby.
And your credibility reaches a new low.

I'm going to conjecture that Mack was thinking: who is this babbling man,
and the assassination is a magnet for strange minds, and how do I get away
from him?

Mark
claviger
2019-04-13 03:30:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Grizzlie Antagonist
Post by claviger
Medium
Hidden in Plain Sight – Bonar Menninger – Medium
Oct 8, 2017 - Did a Secret Service Agent Accidentally Shoot JFK? .... to
one of America's most tortuous questions has been hidden in plain sight
all along.
The possibility that Hickey might have been related to the Kennedy family
is fascinating.
I continue to stay in touch with Bonar Menninger on an on-and-off basis,
and I understand that he is embarking on a project to have an independent
expert review the Bronson film.
It's an exciting prospect that still strikes me as somewhat hit-and-miss
-- the film was taken from a great distance away and may only disclose so
much.
By comparison, it would seem easier for a genealogist to research the
Kennedy and Hickey families to see if there is a connection. I would
assume that there are still some undisturbed records from the late
19th/early 20th centuries available to be retrieved.
Tempus Omnia Revelat!
Gary Mack would never release the Bronson film to anyone, CT or LN.
It is the only 8mm film taken that day in Dealey Plaza to not be made
available to any outside researchers or film experts in 55 years. From
what I hear Curator Stephen Fagin is considering a change in policy to
allow a national expert to be the first technical observer to inspect the
aging 8mm film, and to assess the condition for any damaged frames,
then to supervise modern procedures to copy this film for researchers
to study in detail. Hopefully that can happen sooner than later.
I like Fagin, he takes a very professional approach to his job as Curator.
He has done an excellent job on the SFMDP witness interview series. I
hope he continues that program. Some witness from Dealey Plaza have
never been interviewed until now.
It only would've taken a phone call. Did you ever call the Sixth Floor
Museum asked what was up with the Bronson film?
Yes.
Post by Mark
Or do you feel confident now because a dead man can't answer
your mudslinging?
I feel confident these 4 book authors got it right:

Mortal Error: The Shot That Killed JFK
by Bonar Menninger 1992
https://www.amazon.com/Mortal-Error-ballistics-astonishing-discovery/dp/0312080743

JFK: The Smoking Gun
by Detective Colin McLaren 2013
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GU2NJIC/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

JFK Motorcade: The Accidental Shooting Death of President John F. Kennedy
by Daniel R. Roffe 2013
https://www.amazon.com/JFK-Motorcade-Accidental-Shooting-President/dp/0915180480

The JFK Cut-N-Paste Assassination: Putting It Back Together
by Denise Hazelwood 2015
https://www.amazon.com/JFK-Cut-N-Paste-Assassination-Putting-Together/dp/0692367594
r***@gmail.com
2019-04-14 22:05:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by claviger
Post by Grizzlie Antagonist
Post by claviger
Medium
Hidden in Plain Sight – Bonar Menninger – Medium
Oct 8, 2017 - Did a Secret Service Agent Accidentally Shoot JFK? .... to
one of America's most tortuous questions has been hidden in plain sight
all along.
The possibility that Hickey might have been related to the Kennedy family
is fascinating.
I continue to stay in touch with Bonar Menninger on an on-and-off basis,
and I understand that he is embarking on a project to have an independent
expert review the Bronson film.
It's an exciting prospect that still strikes me as somewhat hit-and-miss
-- the film was taken from a great distance away and may only disclose so
much.
By comparison, it would seem easier for a genealogist to research the
Kennedy and Hickey families to see if there is a connection. I would
assume that there are still some undisturbed records from the late
19th/early 20th centuries available to be retrieved.
Tempus Omnia Revelat!
Gary Mack would never release the Bronson film to anyone, CT or LN.
It is the only 8mm film taken that day in Dealey Plaza to not be made
available to any outside researchers or film experts in 55 years. From
what I hear Curator Stephen Fagin is considering a change in policy to
allow a national expert to be the first technical observer to inspect the
aging 8mm film, and to assess the condition for any damaged frames,
then to supervise modern procedures to copy this film for researchers
to study in detail. Hopefully that can happen sooner than later.
I like Fagin, he takes a very professional approach to his job as Curator.
He has done an excellent job on the SFMDP witness interview series. I
hope he continues that program. Some witness from Dealey Plaza have
never been interviewed until now.
The Sixth Floor Museum wasn't given the Bronson film until 2017:

https://www.jfk.org/sixth-floor-museum-receives-donation-bronson-collection-containing-eyewitness-film-photos-kennedy-assassination/

And Gary Mack died in 2015.

So how did Mack have control over the film?
claviger
2019-04-16 01:38:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by claviger
Post by Grizzlie Antagonist
Post by claviger
Medium
Hidden in Plain Sight – Bonar Menninger – Medium
Oct 8, 2017 - Did a Secret Service Agent Accidentally Shoot JFK? .... to
one of America's most tortuous questions has been hidden in plain sight
all along.
The possibility that Hickey might have been related to the Kennedy family
is fascinating.
I continue to stay in touch with Bonar Menninger on an on-and-off basis,
and I understand that he is embarking on a project to have an independent
expert review the Bronson film.
It's an exciting prospect that still strikes me as somewhat hit-and-miss
-- the film was taken from a great distance away and may only disclose so
much.
By comparison, it would seem easier for a genealogist to research the
Kennedy and Hickey families to see if there is a connection. I would
assume that there are still some undisturbed records from the late
19th/early 20th centuries available to be retrieved.
Tempus Omnia Revelat!
Gary Mack would never release the Bronson film to anyone, CT or LN.
It is the only 8mm film taken that day in Dealey Plaza to not be made
available to any outside researchers or film experts in 55 years. From
what I hear Curator Stephen Fagin is considering a change in policy to
allow a national expert to be the first technical observer to inspect the
aging 8mm film, and to assess the condition for any damaged frames,
then to supervise modern procedures to copy this film for researchers
to study in detail. Hopefully that can happen sooner than later.
I like Fagin, he takes a very professional approach to his job as Curator.
He has done an excellent job on the SFMDP witness interview series. I
hope he continues that program. Some witness from Dealey Plaza have
never been interviewed until now.
https://www.jfk.org/sixth-floor-museum-receives-donation-bronson-collection-containing-eyewitness-film-photos-kennedy-assassination/
And Gary Mack died in 2015.
So how did Mack have control over the film?
In 2013 for obvious reasons many researchers became interested
in the Bronson Film, because it has never been made available to
the General Public. At that time the Bronson family still owned the
film, but it was in safekeeping at the SFMDP and Gary Mack was
the gatekeeper.

I am not sure how many requests were turned down. I do know
of two people who were willing to pay a $1,000 fee to the family.
A well known CT with technical expertise offered to pay the high
Fee and tried 3 times for access, but Mack would not approve it.
The other person was a LN who actually had written permission
from the family, but Mack still refused to allow access or even a
modern copy.

How he got away with that amazes me, but it did cost the Bronson
family a lot of income from willing researchers. I believe the family
finally gave up, then donated the film to the SFMDP because they
were not receiving much income anyhow.

The new Curator Stephen Fagin is apparently trying to correct this
lack of cooperation in the past, and recently allowed Robin Unger
to display 24 frames of Bronson film on his outstanding Website.

A recent study by a couple of researchers using high magnification
enhancement on an Apple laptop computer noticed a black stick in
the backseat of the SSA follow-up car. What that curious object is
has generated new interest in the Bronson film. The reason why a
professional examination by an 8mm expert is an absolute must, to
carefully examine the condition of this aging film, and to produce a
quality high-tech copy for any and all researchers of this case from
Around the World to study closely for any clues, like you and me.
bigdog
2019-04-17 01:24:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by claviger
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by claviger
Post by Grizzlie Antagonist
Post by claviger
Medium
Hidden in Plain Sight – Bonar Menninger – Medium
Oct 8, 2017 - Did a Secret Service Agent Accidentally Shoot JFK? .... to
one of America's most tortuous questions has been hidden in plain sight
all along.
The possibility that Hickey might have been related to the Kennedy family
is fascinating.
I continue to stay in touch with Bonar Menninger on an on-and-off basis,
and I understand that he is embarking on a project to have an independent
expert review the Bronson film.
It's an exciting prospect that still strikes me as somewhat hit-and-miss
-- the film was taken from a great distance away and may only disclose so
much.
By comparison, it would seem easier for a genealogist to research the
Kennedy and Hickey families to see if there is a connection. I would
assume that there are still some undisturbed records from the late
19th/early 20th centuries available to be retrieved.
Tempus Omnia Revelat!
Gary Mack would never release the Bronson film to anyone, CT or LN.
It is the only 8mm film taken that day in Dealey Plaza to not be made
available to any outside researchers or film experts in 55 years. From
what I hear Curator Stephen Fagin is considering a change in policy to
allow a national expert to be the first technical observer to inspect the
aging 8mm film, and to assess the condition for any damaged frames,
then to supervise modern procedures to copy this film for researchers
to study in detail. Hopefully that can happen sooner than later.
I like Fagin, he takes a very professional approach to his job as Curator.
He has done an excellent job on the SFMDP witness interview series. I
hope he continues that program. Some witness from Dealey Plaza have
never been interviewed until now.
https://www.jfk.org/sixth-floor-museum-receives-donation-bronson-collection-containing-eyewitness-film-photos-kennedy-assassination/
And Gary Mack died in 2015.
So how did Mack have control over the film?
In 2013 for obvious reasons many researchers became interested
in the Bronson Film, because it has never been made available to
the General Public. At that time the Bronson family still owned the
film, but it was in safekeeping at the SFMDP and Gary Mack was
the gatekeeper.
I am not sure how many requests were turned down. I do know
of two people who were willing to pay a $1,000 fee to the family.
A well known CT with technical expertise offered to pay the high
Fee and tried 3 times for access, but Mack would not approve it.
The other person was a LN who actually had written permission
from the family, but Mack still refused to allow access or even a
modern copy.
How he got away with that amazes me, but it did cost the Bronson
family a lot of income from willing researchers. I believe the family
finally gave up, then donated the film to the SFMDP because they
were not receiving much income anyhow.
The new Curator Stephen Fagin is apparently trying to correct this
lack of cooperation in the past, and recently allowed Robin Unger
to display 24 frames of Bronson film on his outstanding Website.
A recent study by a couple of researchers using high magnification
enhancement on an Apple laptop computer noticed a black stick in
the backseat of the SSA follow-up car. What that curious object is
has generated new interest in the Bronson film. The reason why a
professional examination by an 8mm expert is an absolute must, to
carefully examine the condition of this aging film, and to produce a
quality high-tech copy for any and all researchers of this case from
Around the World to study closely for any clues, like you and me.
If access has been denied, why can we see it on the internet? Somebody at
some time had to have access to make it available there. I doubt the few
seconds of the shooting captured from a block away is going to tell you
much.
claviger
2019-04-18 03:41:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
The new Curator Stephen Fagin is apparently trying to correct this
lack of cooperation in the past, and recently allowed Robin Unger
to display 24 frames of Bronson film on his outstanding Website.
A recent study by a couple of researchers using high magnification
enhancement on an Apple laptop computer noticed a black stick in
the backseat of the SSA follow-up car. What that curious object is
has generated new interest in the Bronson film. The reason why a
professional examination by an 8mm expert is an absolute must, to
carefully examine the condition of this aging film, and to produce a
quality high-tech copy for any and all researchers of this case from
Around the World to study closely for any clues, like you and me.
If access has been denied, why can we see it on the internet? Somebody
at some time had to have access to make it available there. I doubt the
few seconds of the shooting captured from a block away is going to tell
you much.
Did you ever see the individual Bronson Frames anywhere before Stephen
Fagin became Curator? In a format that could be closely and methodically
studied for details? Had to be Fagin's decision to post on the Robin Unger
website. That tells me a growing number of researchers were seeking new
information about details in the mysterious Bronson Film that nobody was
allowed to inspect frame-by-frame like all the other 8mm films have done.

So I believe Fagin realized it was time to correct that untenable awkward
situation. Even with access to the Bronson frames there was not much to
see until I accidentally touched a wrong button that exploded the frames
on my computer screen. I had no idea my computer would even do that.

I proceeded to study all those frames again with that new function set on
max. It was then I noticed the curious black stick object showed up in four
consecutive frames of the Bronson Film the same time as the head shot.

All I am asking is the SFMDP bring in a National Expert on 8mm film to
professionally examine the Bronson frames and tell us what that black
stick object is. A film expert who worked for the Library of Congress in
preserving, restoring, and copy 8mm films assissted with a project for
the SFMDP once before. Now retired, he would be the perfect expert
to protect, examine, and supervise making a modern high tech copy of
the Bronson Film for researchers to study. This preservation project is
long overdue and the SFMDP needs to respond to the situation or lose
all credibility as a Professional Museum.
claviger
2019-04-19 06:22:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
There is a new Technical development in this case that is HUGE.
The prototype AR-15 had a serious defect. The firing pin was too
heavy and the rifle would literally fire itself with no pressure on the
trigger.

This would happen when a full clip was put already inserted but no
bullet in the chamber. To insert the first round in the chamber the
shooter must rack the charging handle, then the first round snaps
into place. This step is where the problem was located.

Sometimes the first round would fire itself with no trigger pull. This
is called a "slam fire" which could be deadly if any person is located
downrange in front of the barrel. The problem was first discovered
in Vietnam and Colt engineers figured out what the problem was.
They analyzed the firing mechanism and determined the original
firing pin was 2 oz too heavy. The firing pin was redesigned and
that cured the problem. No more slam-fire with the AR-15.

The AR-15 carried by the SSA in the Dallas motorcade was a USAF
original model so chances are that rifle had the uncorrected heavy
firing pin situation. What this means, there is a high probability SSA
Hickey never touched the trigger. When he instinctively chambered
the first round the rifle fired itself.

If true, SSA Hickey was NOT negligent in handling the rifle. Very likely
he lost balance when the Limousines halted suddenly, causing him to
fall forward. SSA Hickey made a heroic effort to return fire at a sniper,
what every Marine learned to do in the South Pacific during WWII.
bigdog
2019-04-20 16:34:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by claviger
There is a new Technical development in this case that is HUGE.
The prototype AR-15 had a serious defect. The firing pin was too
heavy and the rifle would literally fire itself with no pressure on the
trigger.
This would happen when a full clip was put already inserted but no
bullet in the chamber. To insert the first round in the chamber the
shooter must rack the charging handle, then the first round snaps
into place. This step is where the problem was located.
Sometimes the first round would fire itself with no trigger pull. This
is called a "slam fire" which could be deadly if any person is located
downrange in front of the barrel. The problem was first discovered
in Vietnam and Colt engineers figured out what the problem was.
They analyzed the firing mechanism and determined the original
firing pin was 2 oz too heavy. The firing pin was redesigned and
that cured the problem. No more slam-fire with the AR-15.
The AR-15 carried by the SSA in the Dallas motorcade was a USAF
original model so chances are that rifle had the uncorrected heavy
firing pin situation. What this means, there is a high probability SSA
Hickey never touched the trigger. When he instinctively chambered
the first round the rifle fired itself.
If true, SSA Hickey was NOT negligent in handling the rifle. Very likely
he lost balance when the Limousines halted suddenly, causing him to
fall forward. SSA Hickey made a heroic effort to return fire at a sniper,
what every Marine learned to do in the South Pacific during WWII.
A slam fire makes even less sense than a negligent trigger pull. It would
take considerable forward momentum and a sudden stop to produce a slam
fire. Slam fires occur when the bolt is slammed close. It is an extremely
rare occurrence. The slam fire you are describing would require Hickey to
fall forward with force and stop suddenly. This would bring the rifle down
below the top of the windshield.

Your story has been that Hickey was turned toward Oswald ready to return
fire when he lost his balance. Now you seem to be hedging your bet. Either
way, the physics don't work for you. Top get the rifle high enough to fire
over the windshield and downward at JFK would require a deliberate act.
There is no way that could happen accidentally.
Anthony Marsh
2019-04-21 00:13:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
There is a new Technical development in this case that is HUGE.
The prototype AR-15 had a serious defect. The firing pin was too
heavy and the rifle would literally fire itself with no pressure on the
trigger.
This would happen when a full clip was put already inserted but no
bullet in the chamber. To insert the first round in the chamber the
shooter must rack the charging handle, then the first round snaps
into place. This step is where the problem was located.
Sometimes the first round would fire itself with no trigger pull. This
is called a "slam fire" which could be deadly if any person is located
downrange in front of the barrel. The problem was first discovered
in Vietnam and Colt engineers figured out what the problem was.
They analyzed the firing mechanism and determined the original
firing pin was 2 oz too heavy. The firing pin was redesigned and
that cured the problem. No more slam-fire with the AR-15.
The AR-15 carried by the SSA in the Dallas motorcade was a USAF
original model so chances are that rifle had the uncorrected heavy
firing pin situation. What this means, there is a high probability SSA
Hickey never touched the trigger. When he instinctively chambered
the first round the rifle fired itself.
If true, SSA Hickey was NOT negligent in handling the rifle. Very likely
he lost balance when the Limousines halted suddenly, causing him to
fall forward. SSA Hickey made a heroic effort to return fire at a sniper,
what every Marine learned to do in the South Pacific during WWII.
A slam fire makes even less sense than a negligent trigger pull. It would
take considerable forward momentum and a sudden stop to produce a slam
fire. Slam fires occur when the bolt is slammed close. It is an extremely
rare occurrence. The slam fire you are describing would require Hickey to
fall forward with force and stop suddenly. This would bring the rifle down
below the top of the windshield.
Your story has been that Hickey was turned toward Oswald ready to return
fire when he lost his balance. Now you seem to be hedging your bet. Either
way, the physics don't work for you. Top get the rifle high enough to fire
over the windshield and downward at JFK would require a deliberate act.
There is no way that could happen accidentally.
He's just making this up as he goes.
Anthony Marsh
2019-04-20 16:35:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by claviger
There is a new Technical development in this case that is HUGE.
The prototype AR-15 had a serious defect. The firing pin was too
heavy and the rifle would literally fire itself with no pressure on the
trigger.
Cute. ANd you've documented this how?
Post by claviger
This would happen when a full clip was put already inserted but no
bullet in the chamber. To insert the first round in the chamber the
shooter must rack the charging handle, then the first round snaps
into place. This step is where the problem was located.
So, did Hickey already cock end load tthe first round before
Post by claviger
Sometimes the first round would fire itself with no trigger pull. This
is called a "slam fire" which could be deadly if any person is located
downrange in front of the barrel. The problem was first discovered
in Vietnam and Colt engineers figured out what the problem was.
They analyzed the firing mechanism and determined the original
firing pin was 2 oz too heavy. The firing pin was redesigned and
that cured the problem. No more slam-fire with the AR-15.
The AR-15 carried by the SSA in the Dallas motorcade was a USAF
original model so chances are that rifle had the uncorrected heavy
firing pin situation. What this means, there is a high probability SSA
Hickey never touched the trigger. When he instinctively chambered
the first round the rifle fired itself.
Chances are that you don't know what the Hell you are talking about.
All you do here is guess and make up crap from your imagination.
Post by claviger
If true, SSA Hickey was NOT negligent in handling the rifle. Very likely
he lost balance when the Limousines halted suddenly, causing him to
fall forward. SSA Hickey made a heroic effort to return fire at a sniper,
what every Marine learned to do in the South Pacific during WWII.
No, that is not true. He never even pointed it at the TSBD.
You have failed so many times. Let me help you out.
You could claim that he was aiming at the shooter on the grassy knoll
and missed.
donald willis
2019-04-21 20:54:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
There is a new Technical development in this case that is HUGE.
The prototype AR-15 had a serious defect. The firing pin was too
heavy and the rifle would literally fire itself with no pressure on the
trigger.
Cute. ANd you've documented this how?
Post by claviger
This would happen when a full clip was put already inserted but no
bullet in the chamber. To insert the first round in the chamber the
shooter must rack the charging handle, then the first round snaps
into place. This step is where the problem was located.
So, did Hickey already cock end load tthe first round before
Post by claviger
Sometimes the first round would fire itself with no trigger pull. This
is called a "slam fire" which could be deadly if any person is located
downrange in front of the barrel. The problem was first discovered
in Vietnam and Colt engineers figured out what the problem was.
They analyzed the firing mechanism and determined the original
firing pin was 2 oz too heavy. The firing pin was redesigned and
that cured the problem. No more slam-fire with the AR-15.
The AR-15 carried by the SSA in the Dallas motorcade was a USAF
original model so chances are that rifle had the uncorrected heavy
firing pin situation. What this means, there is a high probability SSA
Hickey never touched the trigger. When he instinctively chambered
the first round the rifle fired itself.
Chances are that you don't know what the Hell you are talking about.
All you do here is guess and make up crap from your imagination.
Post by claviger
If true, SSA Hickey was NOT negligent in handling the rifle. Very likely
he lost balance when the Limousines halted suddenly, causing him to
fall forward. SSA Hickey made a heroic effort to return fire at a sniper,
what every Marine learned to do in the South Pacific during WWII.
No, that is not true. He never even pointed it at the TSBD.
You have failed so many times. Let me help you out.
You could claim that he was aiming at the shooter on the grassy knoll
and missed.
Hey! That's my take.... But did the knoll shooter miss, too?
Anthony Marsh
2019-04-23 17:33:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by donald willis
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
There is a new Technical development in this case that is HUGE.
The prototype AR-15 had a serious defect. The firing pin was too
heavy and the rifle would literally fire itself with no pressure on the
trigger.
Cute. ANd you've documented this how?
Post by claviger
This would happen when a full clip was put already inserted but no
bullet in the chamber. To insert the first round in the chamber the
shooter must rack the charging handle, then the first round snaps
into place. This step is where the problem was located.
So, did Hickey already cock end load tthe first round before
Post by claviger
Sometimes the first round would fire itself with no trigger pull. This
is called a "slam fire" which could be deadly if any person is located
downrange in front of the barrel. The problem was first discovered
in Vietnam and Colt engineers figured out what the problem was.
They analyzed the firing mechanism and determined the original
firing pin was 2 oz too heavy. The firing pin was redesigned and
that cured the problem. No more slam-fire with the AR-15.
The AR-15 carried by the SSA in the Dallas motorcade was a USAF
original model so chances are that rifle had the uncorrected heavy
firing pin situation. What this means, there is a high probability SSA
Hickey never touched the trigger. When he instinctively chambered
the first round the rifle fired itself.
Chances are that you don't know what the Hell you are talking about.
All you do here is guess and make up crap from your imagination.
Post by claviger
If true, SSA Hickey was NOT negligent in handling the rifle. Very likely
he lost balance when the Limousines halted suddenly, causing him to
fall forward. SSA Hickey made a heroic effort to return fire at a sniper,
what every Marine learned to do in the South Pacific during WWII.
No, that is not true. He never even pointed it at the TSBD.
You have failed so many times. Let me help you out.
You could claim that he was aiming at the shooter on the grassy knoll
and missed.
Hey! That's my take.... But did the knoll shooter miss, too?
No, his shot hit JFK just above the right eye. The HSCA could not admit
that. It was supposed to rubberstamp the WC.
claviger
2019-04-20 20:26:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by claviger
There is a new Technical development in this case that is HUGE.
The prototype AR-15 had a serious defect. The firing pin was too
heavy and the rifle would literally fire itself with no pressure on the
trigger.
This would happen when a full clip was inserted but no round in the
chamber. To insert the first round into the chamber the shooter must rack
the charging handle, then the first round inserts into place. This step is
where the problem was located.
Post by claviger
Sometimes the first round would fire itself with no trigger pull. This
is called a "slam fire" which could be deadly if any person is located
downrange in front of the barrel. The problem was first discovered
in Vietnam and Colt engineers figured out what the problem was.
They analyzed the firing mechanism and determined the original
firing pin was 2 oz too heavy. The firing pin was redesigned and
that cured the problem. No more slam-fire with the AR-15.
The AR-15 carried by the SSA in the Dallas motorcade was a USAF
original model, so chances are that rifle had the uncorrected heavy
firing pin situation. What this means, there is a high probability SSA
Hickey never touched the trigger. When he instinctively chambered
the first round the rifle fired itself.
If true, SSA Hickey was NOT negligent in handling the rifle. Very likely
he lost balance when the Limousines halted suddenly, causing him to
fall forward. SSA Hickey made a heroic effort to return fire at a sniper,
what every Marine learned to do in the South Pacific during WWII.
Mark
2019-04-20 20:37:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by claviger
There is a new Technical development in this case that is HUGE.
The prototype AR-15 had a serious defect. The firing pin was too
heavy and the rifle would literally fire itself with no pressure on the
trigger.
I'm sure you're going to hear this from others, but I think you are
grasping.
Post by claviger
This would happen when a full clip was put already inserted but no
bullet in the chamber. To insert the first round in the chamber the
shooter must rack the charging handle, then the first round snaps
into place. This step is where the problem was located.
Sometimes the first round would fire itself with no trigger pull. This
is called a "slam fire" which could be deadly if any person is located
downrange in front of the barrel. The problem was first discovered
in Vietnam and Colt engineers figured out what the problem was.
They analyzed the firing mechanism and determined the original
firing pin was 2 oz too heavy. The firing pin was redesigned and
that cured the problem. No more slam-fire with the AR-15.
I'm familiar with slam fire, but do you have evidence Hickey's rifle was
one that had the problem?
Post by claviger
The AR-15 carried by the SSA in the Dallas motorcade was a USAF
original model so chances are that rifle had the uncorrected heavy
firing pin situation. What this means, there is a high probability SSA
Hickey never touched the trigger. When he instinctively chambered
the first round the rifle fired itself.
Do you think Hickey would have chambered a round with with the rifle
pointing at the people in front of him? I doubt if that was the way he
was trained on it.

Do we know if Hickey had to chamber a round after hearing Oswald's shots?
Or did he have a bullet already chambered with the safety engaged?
Post by claviger
If true, SSA Hickey was NOT negligent in handling the rifle. Very likely
he lost balance when the Limousines halted suddenly, causing him to
fall forward. SSA Hickey made a heroic effort to return fire at a sniper,
what every Marine learned to do in the South Pacific during WWII.
You're being vague again. So now Hickey fell forward, but didn't
accidentally pull the trigger. Instead while he was falling forward he was
also trying to chamber a round and the rifle slam fired and hit JFK. Is
that about right?

To back up a bit, I don't believe you've gotten past the Bronson film.
While it's not completely definitive, it appears to show Hickey sitting
down with the AR pointing skyward at the time the head shot arrives.
Mark
claviger
2019-04-21 20:54:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
There is a new Technical development in this case that is HUGE.
The prototype AR-15 had a serious defect. The firing pin was too
heavy and the rifle would literally fire itself with no pressure on the
trigger.
I'm sure you're going to hear this from others, but I think you are
grasping.
For what? This was a closely guarded secrete until the problem was
analyzed and fixed. The SSA rifle came from the original group the
USAF ordered. One more reason for a Friendly Fire accident during
the sudden ambush on the Motorcade.
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
This would happen when a full clip was put already inserted but no
bullet in the chamber. To insert the first round in the chamber the
shooter must rack the charging handle, then the first round snaps
into place. This step is where the problem was located.
Sometimes the first round would fire itself with no trigger pull. This
is called a "slam fire" which could be deadly if any person is located
downrange in front of the barrel. The problem was first discovered
in Vietnam and Colt engineers figured out what the problem was.
They analyzed the firing mechanism and determined the original
firing pin was 2 oz too heavy. The firing pin was redesigned and
that cured the problem. No more slam-fire with the AR-15.
I'm familiar with slam fire, but do you have evidence Hickey's rifle was
one that had the problem?
My understanding it came from the same production group for the
USAF and tested in Vietnam, where the problem was discovered.
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
The AR-15 carried by the SSA in the Dallas motorcade was a USAF
original model so chances are that rifle had the uncorrected heavy
firing pin situation. What this means, there is a high probability SSA
Hickey never touched the trigger. When he instinctively chambered
the first round the rifle fired itself.
Do you think Hickey would have chambered a round with with the rifle
pointing at the people in front of him? I doubt if that was the way he
was trained on it.
That is a good question. To carry the rifle:
Safe Way: clip-in + empty-chamber. *
Quick Way: clip-in + one-in-the-chamber.

*Normally with no slam-fire problems.
Post by Mark
Do we know if Hickey had to chamber a round after hearing Oswald's shots?
Or did he have a bullet already chambered with the safety engaged?
Hard to say. Either one makes sense.
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
If true, SSA Hickey was NOT negligent in handling the rifle. Very likely
he lost balance when the Limousines halted suddenly, causing him to
fall forward. SSA Hickey made a heroic effort to return fire at a sniper,
what every Marine learned to do in the South Pacific during WWII.
You're being vague again.
In what way?
Post by Mark
So now Hickey fell forward, but didn't accidentally pull the trigger.
Instead while he was falling forward he was also trying to chamber
a round and the rifle slam fired and hit JFK.
Is that about right?
You do realize a well placed Witness saw a SSA with "machine-gun"
stand up and fall down, then the motorcade sped away" right? The
only SSA with a "machine-gun" was SSA Hickey, and in his official
incident report he admits to standing up twice while the Limousine
was under fire.
Post by Mark
To back up a bit, I don't believe you've gotten past the Bronson film.
While it's not completely definitive, it appears to show Hickey sitting
down with the AR pointing skyward at the time the head shot arrives.
Mark
Can you tell me which frames you are referring to?

JFK Assassination Photographs JFK Assassination Gallery films ...
https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/
Home > JFK Assassination > Bronson Gallery
https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/thumbnails.php?album=15
Mark
2019-04-22 15:05:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
There is a new Technical development in this case that is HUGE.
The prototype AR-15 had a serious defect. The firing pin was too
heavy and the rifle would literally fire itself with no pressure on the
trigger.
I'm sure you're going to hear this from others, but I think you are
grasping.
For what? This was a closely guarded secrete until the problem was
analyzed and fixed. The SSA rifle came from the original group the
USAF ordered. One more reason for a Friendly Fire accident during
the sudden ambush on the Motorcade.
The main reason I say you're grasping is because a shot from the AR-15
does not match the ballistic evidence. As for other reasons, see my
answers below.

Not that I don't believe you, but would you give me your source that
Hickey's rifle came from the "original group"? I would like to read up on
it more.
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
This would happen when a full clip was put already inserted but no
bullet in the chamber. To insert the first round in the chamber the
shooter must rack the charging handle, then the first round snaps
into place. This step is where the problem was located.
Sometimes the first round would fire itself with no trigger pull. This
is called a "slam fire" which could be deadly if any person is located
downrange in front of the barrel. The problem was first discovered
in Vietnam and Colt engineers figured out what the problem was.
They analyzed the firing mechanism and determined the original
firing pin was 2 oz too heavy. The firing pin was redesigned and
that cured the problem. No more slam-fire with the AR-15.
I'm familiar with slam fire, but do you have evidence Hickey's rifle was
one that had the problem?
My understanding it came from the same production group for the
USAF and tested in Vietnam, where the problem was discovered.
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
The AR-15 carried by the SSA in the Dallas motorcade was a USAF
original model so chances are that rifle had the uncorrected heavy
firing pin situation. What this means, there is a high probability SSA
Hickey never touched the trigger. When he instinctively chambered
the first round the rifle fired itself.
Do you think Hickey would have chambered a round with with the rifle
pointing at the people in front of him? I doubt if that was the way he
was trained on it.
Safe Way: clip-in + empty-chamber. *
Quick Way: clip-in + one-in-the-chamber.
*Normally with no slam-fire problems.
I don't believe if Hickey, during his training, found a slam-fire problem
with the AR, he would have approved it for Secret Service use.
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Do we know if Hickey had to chamber a round after hearing Oswald's shots?
Or did he have a bullet already chambered with the safety engaged?
Hard to say. Either one makes sense.
Well, one of the two rules out a slam-fire.
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
If true, SSA Hickey was NOT negligent in handling the rifle. Very likely
he lost balance when the Limousines halted suddenly, causing him to
fall forward. SSA Hickey made a heroic effort to return fire at a sniper,
what every Marine learned to do in the South Pacific during WWII.
You're being vague again.
In what way?
You're not telling us what you think happened. I take it you want to
separate the two and offer both as possibilities? Do you think by
offering us a multiple-choice it strengthens your position? Either it was
an accidental trigger pull or a slam-fire?
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
So now Hickey fell forward, but didn't accidentally pull the trigger.
Instead while he was falling forward he was also trying to chamber
a round and the rifle slam fired and hit JFK.
Is that about right?
You do realize a well placed Witness saw a SSA with "machine-gun"
stand up and fall down, then the motorcade sped away" right? The
only SSA with a "machine-gun" was SSA Hickey, and in his official
incident report he admits to standing up twice while the Limousine
was under fire.
Yes, I do. But I would not stake my reputation on one witness.

But there are three witnesses that you now, like many of the CTs, have to
believe were lying or mistaken. Bonnie Ray Williams, James Jarman and
Harold Norman testified they heard three shots being fired right above
them, from the 6th floor. (Keeping in mind the vast majority of Dealey
Plaza ear-witnesses heard only three shots.) Of course, for Hickey to have
fired the third shot means they were wrong.

However, the three Depository workers' testimony is backed
up--corroborated--by the evidence. Three Carcano shells were found on the
6th floor, along with the paper bag, and the rifle. Remnants of bullets
fired by Oswald's Carcano were found in the Limo.
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
To back up a bit, I don't believe you've gotten past the Bronson film.
While it's not completely definitive, it appears to show Hickey sitting
down with the AR pointing skyward at the time the head shot arrives.
Mark
Can you tell me which frames you are referring to?
Yes. They were posted on here not long ago. From the Myers/Russo online
article:

http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2013/08/drums-of-conspiracy.html

Mark
Anthony Marsh
2019-04-23 17:34:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
There is a new Technical development in this case that is HUGE.
The prototype AR-15 had a serious defect. The firing pin was too
heavy and the rifle would literally fire itself with no pressure on the
trigger.
I'm sure you're going to hear this from others, but I think you are
grasping.
For what? This was a closely guarded secrete until the problem was
analyzed and fixed. The SSA rifle came from the original group the
USAF ordered. One more reason for a Friendly Fire accident during
the sudden ambush on the Motorcade.
The main reason I say you're grasping is because a shot from the AR-15
does not match the ballistic evidence. As for other reasons, see my
answers below.
Not that I don't believe you, but would you give me your source that
Hickey's rifle came from the "original group"? I would like to read up on
it more.
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
This would happen when a full clip was put already inserted but no
bullet in the chamber. To insert the first round in the chamber the
shooter must rack the charging handle, then the first round snaps
into place. This step is where the problem was located.
Sometimes the first round would fire itself with no trigger pull. This
is called a "slam fire" which could be deadly if any person is located
downrange in front of the barrel. The problem was first discovered
in Vietnam and Colt engineers figured out what the problem was.
They analyzed the firing mechanism and determined the original
firing pin was 2 oz too heavy. The firing pin was redesigned and
that cured the problem. No more slam-fire with the AR-15.
I'm familiar with slam fire, but do you have evidence Hickey's rifle was
one that had the problem?
My understanding it came from the same production group for the
USAF and tested in Vietnam, where the problem was discovered.
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
The AR-15 carried by the SSA in the Dallas motorcade was a USAF
original model so chances are that rifle had the uncorrected heavy
firing pin situation. What this means, there is a high probability SSA
Hickey never touched the trigger. When he instinctively chambered
the first round the rifle fired itself.
Do you think Hickey would have chambered a round with with the rifle
pointing at the people in front of him? I doubt if that was the way he
was trained on it.
Safe Way: clip-in + empty-chamber. *
Quick Way: clip-in + one-in-the-chamber.
*Normally with no slam-fire problems.
I don't believe if Hickey, during his training, found a slam-fire problem
with the AR, he would have approved it for Secret Service use.
Training? What training? Can you document this? How many people did
Hickey shoot accidentally during this so-called training?
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Do we know if Hickey had to chamber a round after hearing Oswald's shots?
Or did he have a bullet already chambered with the safety engaged?
Hard to say. Either one makes sense.
Well, one of the two rules out a slam-fire.
If Hickey is supposed to react instantly why wouldn't he have already
loaded and cocked the rifle before putting it on the floor? Could it go
off accidentally if they went over a bump?
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
If true, SSA Hickey was NOT negligent in handling the rifle. Very likely
he lost balance when the Limousines halted suddenly, causing him to
fall forward. SSA Hickey made a heroic effort to return fire at a sniper,
what every Marine learned to do in the South Pacific during WWII.
You're being vague again.
In what way?
You're not telling us what you think happened. I take it you want to
separate the two and offer both as possibilities? Do you think by
offering us a multiple-choice it strengthens your position? Either it was
an accidental trigger pull or a slam-fire?
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
So now Hickey fell forward, but didn't accidentally pull the trigger.
Instead while he was falling forward he was also trying to chamber
a round and the rifle slam fired and hit JFK.
Is that about right?
You do realize a well placed Witness saw a SSA with "machine-gun"
stand up and fall down, then the motorcade sped away" right? The
only SSA with a "machine-gun" was SSA Hickey, and in his official
incident report he admits to standing up twice while the Limousine
was under fire.
Yes, I do. But I would not stake my reputation on one witness.
But there are three witnesses that you now, like many of the CTs, have to
believe were lying or mistaken. Bonnie Ray Williams, James Jarman and
Harold Norman testified they heard three shots being fired right above
them, from the 6th floor. (Keeping in mind the vast majority of Dealey
Plaza ear-witnesses heard only three shots.) Of course, for Hickey to have
fired the third shot means they were wrong.
However, the three Depository workers' testimony is backed
up--corroborated--by the evidence. Three Carcano shells were found on the
6th floor, along with the paper bag, and the rifle. Remnants of bullets
fired by Oswald's Carcano were found in the Limo.
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
To back up a bit, I don't believe you've gotten past the Bronson film.
While it's not completely definitive, it appears to show Hickey sitting
down with the AR pointing skyward at the time the head shot arrives.
Mark
Can you tell me which frames you are referring to?
Yes. They were posted on here not long ago. From the Myers/Russo online
http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2013/08/drums-of-conspiracy.html
Mark
Mark
2019-04-25 03:18:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
There is a new Technical development in this case that is HUGE.
The prototype AR-15 had a serious defect. The firing pin was too
heavy and the rifle would literally fire itself with no pressure on the
trigger.
I'm sure you're going to hear this from others, but I think you are
grasping.
For what? This was a closely guarded secrete until the problem was
analyzed and fixed. The SSA rifle came from the original group the
USAF ordered. One more reason for a Friendly Fire accident during
the sudden ambush on the Motorcade.
The main reason I say you're grasping is because a shot from the AR-15
does not match the ballistic evidence. As for other reasons, see my
answers below.
Not that I don't believe you, but would you give me your source that
Hickey's rifle came from the "original group"? I would like to read up on
it more.
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
This would happen when a full clip was put already inserted but no
bullet in the chamber. To insert the first round in the chamber the
shooter must rack the charging handle, then the first round snaps
into place. This step is where the problem was located.
Sometimes the first round would fire itself with no trigger pull. This
is called a "slam fire" which could be deadly if any person is located
downrange in front of the barrel. The problem was first discovered
in Vietnam and Colt engineers figured out what the problem was.
They analyzed the firing mechanism and determined the original
firing pin was 2 oz too heavy. The firing pin was redesigned and
that cured the problem. No more slam-fire with the AR-15.
I'm familiar with slam fire, but do you have evidence Hickey's rifle was
one that had the problem?
My understanding it came from the same production group for the
USAF and tested in Vietnam, where the problem was discovered.
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
The AR-15 carried by the SSA in the Dallas motorcade was a USAF
original model so chances are that rifle had the uncorrected heavy
firing pin situation. What this means, there is a high probability SSA
Hickey never touched the trigger. When he instinctively chambered
the first round the rifle fired itself.
Do you think Hickey would have chambered a round with with the rifle
pointing at the people in front of him? I doubt if that was the way he
was trained on it.
Safe Way: clip-in + empty-chamber. *
Quick Way: clip-in + one-in-the-chamber.
*Normally with no slam-fire problems.
I don't believe if Hickey, during his training, found a slam-fire problem
with the AR, he would have approved it for Secret Service use.
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Do we know if Hickey had to chamber a round after hearing Oswald's shots?
Or did he have a bullet already chambered with the safety engaged?
Hard to say. Either one makes sense.
Well, one of the two rules out a slam-fire.
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
If true, SSA Hickey was NOT negligent in handling the rifle. Very likely
he lost balance when the Limousines halted suddenly, causing him to
fall forward. SSA Hickey made a heroic effort to return fire at a sniper,
what every Marine learned to do in the South Pacific during WWII.
You're being vague again.
In what way?
You're not telling us what you think happened. I take it you want to
separate the two and offer both as possibilities? Do you think by
offering us a multiple-choice it strengthens your position? Either it was
an accidental trigger pull or a slam-fire?
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
So now Hickey fell forward, but didn't accidentally pull the trigger.
Instead while he was falling forward he was also trying to chamber
a round and the rifle slam fired and hit JFK.
Is that about right?
You do realize a well placed Witness saw a SSA with "machine-gun"
stand up and fall down, then the motorcade sped away" right? The
only SSA with a "machine-gun" was SSA Hickey, and in his official
incident report he admits to standing up twice while the Limousine
was under fire.
Yes, I do. But I would not stake my reputation on one witness.
But there are three witnesses that you now, like many of the CTs, have to
believe were lying or mistaken. Bonnie Ray Williams, James Jarman and
Harold Norman testified they heard three shots being fired right above
them, from the 6th floor. (Keeping in mind the vast majority of Dealey
Plaza ear-witnesses heard only three shots.) Of course, for Hickey to have
fired the third shot means they were wrong.
However, the three Depository workers' testimony is backed
up--corroborated--by the evidence. Three Carcano shells were found on the
6th floor, along with the paper bag, and the rifle. Remnants of bullets
fired by Oswald's Carcano were found in the Limo.
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
To back up a bit, I don't believe you've gotten past the Bronson film.
While it's not completely definitive, it appears to show Hickey sitting
down with the AR pointing skyward at the time the head shot arrives.
Mark
Can you tell me which frames you are referring to?
Yes. They were posted on here not long ago. From the Myers/Russo online
http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2013/08/drums-of-conspiracy.html
Correction: I should have said it is ONE frame from the Bronson film that
has been enlarged twice. Mark
claviger
2019-04-26 00:46:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
There is a new Technical development in this case that is HUGE.
The prototype AR-15 had a serious defect. The firing pin was too
heavy and the rifle would literally fire itself with no pressure on the
trigger.
I'm sure you're going to hear this from others, but I think you are
grasping.
For what? This was a closely guarded secrete until the problem was
analyzed and fixed. The SSA rifle came from the original group the
USAF ordered. One more reason for a Friendly Fire accident during
the sudden ambush on the Motorcade.
The main reason I say you're grasping is because a shot from the AR-15
does not match the ballistic evidence. As for other reasons, see my
answers below.
You have that backwards. The AR15 .223 matched the head shot terminal
ballistics, not the tough Carcano 6.5mm. The AR-15 had a tumbling
fragmenting problem from the start. The highly stable Carcano bullet had
the opposite reputation of drilling survivable holes in enemy soldiers.
That is how it got the reputation as the "Humanitarian Rifle" of two World
Wars.
Post by Mark
Not that I don't believe you, but would you give me your source that
Hickey's rifle came from the "original group"? I would like to read up
on it more.
Loading Image...

"Although civilian AR-15 production began in 1963, The Colt Heritage
(R.L. Wilson) states that this rifle was given to JFK in the White House
in 1962."
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
This would happen when a full clip was put already inserted but no
bullet in the chamber. To insert the first round in the chamber the
shooter must rack the charging handle, then the first round snaps
into place. This step is where the problem was located.
Sometimes the first round would fire itself with no trigger pull. This
is called a "slam fire" which could be deadly if any person is located
downrange in front of the barrel. The problem was first discovered
in Vietnam and Colt engineers figured out what the problem was.
They analyzed the firing mechanism and determined the original
firing pin was 2 oz too heavy. The firing pin was redesigned and
that cured the problem. No more slam-fire with the AR-15.
I'm familiar with slam fire, but do you have evidence Hickey's rifle was
one that had the problem?
My understanding it came from the same production group for the
USAF and tested in Vietnam, where the problem was discovered.
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
The AR-15 carried by the SSA in the Dallas motorcade was a USAF
original model so chances are that rifle had the uncorrected heavy
firing pin situation. What this means, there is a high probability SSA
Hickey never touched the trigger. When he instinctively chambered
the first round the rifle fired itself.
Do you think Hickey would have chambered a round with with the rifle
pointing at the people in front of him? I doubt if that was the way he
was trained on it.
Safe Way: clip-in + empty-chamber. *
Quick Way: clip-in + one-in-the-chamber.
* Normally with no slam-fire problems.
I don't believe if Hickey, during his training, found a slam-fire problem
with the AR, he would have approved it for Secret Service use.
I should hope not. My understanding prototype AR-15s were tested in
combat with ARVN troops, who reported massive wounds on enemy
VC and that is where the slam-fire problem was first experienced.
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Do we know if Hickey had to chamber a round after hearing
Oswald's shots? Or did he have a bullet already chambered
with the safety engaged?
Hard to say. Either one makes sense.
Well, one of the two rules out a slam-fire.
If the first round is already in the chamber simply move switch
to Fire. No need to rack the first round into the chamber.
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
If true, SSA Hickey was NOT negligent in handling the rifle. Very likely
he lost balance when the Limousines halted suddenly, causing him to
fall forward. SSA Hickey made a heroic effort to return fire at a sniper,
what every Marine learned to do in the South Pacific during WWII.
You're being vague again.
In what way?
You're not telling us what you think happened. I take it you
want to separate the two and offer both as possibilities?
Yes.
Post by Mark
Do you think by offering us a multiple-choice it strengthens your
position? Either it was an accidental trigger pull or a slam-fire?
Isn't that obvious?
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
So now Hickey fell forward, but didn't accidentally pull the trigger.
Instead while he was falling forward he was also trying to chamber
a round and the rifle slam fired and hit JFK.
Is that about right?
You do realize a well placed Witness saw a SSA with "machine-gun"
stand up and fall down, then the motorcade sped away" right? The
only SSA with a "machine-gun" was SSA Hickey, and in his official
incident report he admits to standing up twice while the Limousine
was under fire.
Yes, I do. But I would not stake my reputation on one witness.
One well placed witness on top of the RR Trestle with the Motorcade
coming downhill right under where he's standing.
Post by Mark
But there are three witnesses that you now, like many of the CTs, have to
believe were lying or mistaken. Bonnie Ray Williams, James Jarman and
Harold Norman testified they heard three shots being fired right above
them, from the 6th floor.
Only one witness said that on first interview. Later the other two
witnesses echoed the first witness. This was pointed out to me
by a CT. I double checked and he was right.
Post by Mark
(Keeping in mind the vast majority of Dealey Plaza ear-witnesses
heard only three shots.) Of course, for Hickey to have fired the
third shot means they were wrong.
Not necessarily. A large number of witnesses reported the last shot
as "Bam-Bam". Either an echo or two shots fired simultaneously.
Post by Mark
However, the three Depository workers' testimony is backed
up--corroborated--by the evidence. Three Carcano shells were
found on the 6th floor, along with the paper bag, and the rifle.
One of the empty shells had a dent.

"It was true that three spent Carcano shells were found on the floor
of the Book Depository. . . . Yet one of the shells was dented and
showed numerous marks from the carrier, the large spring in the
Carcano clip that pushed the bullet up to the chamber. Donahue
did not believe this dented shell could have been used to fire a
bullet that day. The gun would not have functioned properly.
(Mortal Error, New York: St. Martin's Press, 1991, p. 114)
Post by Mark
Remnants of bullets fired by Oswald's Carcano were found in the Limo.
The President was injured by fragments from the First Shot ricochet.
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
To back up a bit, I don't believe you've gotten past the Bronson film.
While it's not completely definitive, it appears to show Hickey sitting
down with the AR pointing skyward at the time the head shot arrives.
Mark
Can you tell me which frames you are referring to?
Yes. They were posted on here not long ago. From the Myers/Russo online
http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2013/08/drums-of-conspiracy.html
Mark
Dale Myers is a brilliant researcher on this case, but he got the wrong
Bronson frame.
Mark
2019-04-27 01:23:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
There is a new Technical development in this case that is HUGE.
The prototype AR-15 had a serious defect. The firing pin was too
heavy and the rifle would literally fire itself with no pressure on the
trigger.
I'm sure you're going to hear this from others, but I think you are
grasping.
For what? This was a closely guarded secrete until the problem was
analyzed and fixed. The SSA rifle came from the original group the
USAF ordered. One more reason for a Friendly Fire accident during
the sudden ambush on the Motorcade.
The main reason I say you're grasping is because a shot from the AR-15
does not match the ballistic evidence. As for other reasons, see my
answers below.
You have that backwards. The AR15 .223 matched the head shot terminal
ballistics, not the tough Carcano 6.5mm. The AR-15 had a tumbling
fragmenting problem from the start. The highly stable Carcano bullet had
the opposite reputation of drilling survivable holes in enemy soldiers.
That is how it got the reputation as the "Humanitarian Rifle" of two World
Wars.
No, I don't believe I do. Hank (and I believe BD and others) have been
over and over this with you. If they haven't given you second thoughts
(especially regarding Oliver's work), then there is nothing I can add that
will make a difference.
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Not that I don't believe you, but would you give me your source that
Hickey's rifle came from the "original group"? I would like to read up
on it more.
https://cdn0.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/President-Kennedy-courtesy-motherjones.com_.jpg
"Although civilian AR-15 production began in 1963, The Colt Heritage
(R.L. Wilson) states that this rifle was given to JFK in the White House
in 1962."
Well, OK, that sorta answers the question.
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
This would happen when a full clip was put already inserted but no
bullet in the chamber. To insert the first round in the chamber the
shooter must rack the charging handle, then the first round snaps
into place. This step is where the problem was located.
Sometimes the first round would fire itself with no trigger pull. This
is called a "slam fire" which could be deadly if any person is located
downrange in front of the barrel. The problem was first discovered
in Vietnam and Colt engineers figured out what the problem was.
They analyzed the firing mechanism and determined the original
firing pin was 2 oz too heavy. The firing pin was redesigned and
that cured the problem. No more slam-fire with the AR-15.
I'm familiar with slam fire, but do you have evidence Hickey's rifle was
one that had the problem?
My understanding it came from the same production group for the
USAF and tested in Vietnam, where the problem was discovered.
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
The AR-15 carried by the SSA in the Dallas motorcade was a USAF
original model so chances are that rifle had the uncorrected heavy
firing pin situation. What this means, there is a high probability SSA
Hickey never touched the trigger. When he instinctively chambered
the first round the rifle fired itself.
Do you think Hickey would have chambered a round with with the rifle
pointing at the people in front of him? I doubt if that was the way he
was trained on it.
Safe Way: clip-in + empty-chamber. *
Quick Way: clip-in + one-in-the-chamber.
* Normally with no slam-fire probl
ms.
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
I don't believe if Hickey, during his training, found a slam-fire problem
with the AR, he would have approved it for Secret Service use.
I should hope not. My understanding prototype AR-15s were tested in
combat with ARVN troops, who reported massive wounds on enemy
VC and that is where the slam-fire problem was first experienced.
OK, so we agree on that point. I would say that means you're saying it's
possible, but not probable, that Hickey's AR could have slam-fired on
11/22.

One thing I would add about the AR. Its relatively small bullet can tumble
and create big wounds. That does not happen with every shot. That is a
variable and is not predictable.

As for the Carcano round, I think you're getting into the unknown. How
many of those WW II wounds by this Humanitarian Rifle went through flesh
and did not solidly impact bone? Like JFK's neck wound compared to the
direct impact on his skull bone. Do you know?

You are giving us a hopeful opinion about how Oswald's Carcano bullets
interacted with JFK's body.
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Do we know if Hickey had to chamber a round after hearing
Oswald's shots? Or did he have a bullet already chambered
with the safety engaged?
Hard to say. Either one makes sense.
Well, one of the two rules out a slam-fire.
If the first round is already in the chamber simply move switch
to Fire. No need to rack the first round into the chamber.
Yes, that's what I am saying. If he had one in the chamber there wasn't a
slam-fire.
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
If true, SSA Hickey was NOT negligent in handling the rifle. Very likely
he lost balance when the Limousines halted suddenly, causing him to
fall forward. SSA Hickey made a heroic effort to return fire at a sniper,
what every Marine learned to do in the South Pacific during WWII.
You're being vague again.
In what way?
You're not telling us what you think happened. I take it you
want to separate the two and offer both as possibilities?
Yes.
Post by Mark
Do you think by offering us a multiple-choice it strengthens your
position? Either it was an accidental trigger pull or a slam-fire?
Isn't that obvious?
Ah, come on. Go for it. Be extra creative about what you think Hickey did
and posit a simultaneous slam-fire and an accidental trigger pull.
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
So now Hickey fell forward, but didn't accidentally pull the trigger.
Instead while he was falling forward he was also trying to chamber
a round and the rifle slam fired and hit JFK.
Is that about right?
You do realize a well placed Witness saw a SSA with "machine-gun"
stand up and fall down, then the motorcade sped away" right? The
only SSA with a "machine-gun" was SSA Hickey, and in his official
incident report he admits to standing up twice while the Limousine
was under fire.
Yes, I do. But I would not stake my reputation on one witness.
One well placed witness on top of the RR Trestle with the Motorcade
coming downhill right under where he's standing.
However you want to describe him, it's still one witness trying to
describe what he saw of a chaotic scene.
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
But there are three witnesses that you now, like many of the CTs, have to
believe were lying or mistaken. Bonnie Ray Williams, James Jarman and
Harold Norman testified they heard three shots being fired right above
them, from the 6th floor.
Only one witness said that on first interview. Later the other two
witnesses echoed the first witness. This was pointed out to me
by a CT. I double checked and he was right.
I've argued the details of their beliefs previously, and I'm not going to
go back into them now. Not one of the three ever denied three shots were
fired right above him.

You use the pejorative "echoed." As if they did not have minds of their
own. Or were involved somehow in the president's murder. Do you believe
Williams, Norman and Jarman at first fumbled and then had to get their
stories straight because they were part of a conspiracy?
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
(Keeping in mind the vast majority of Dealey Plaza ear-witnesses
heard only three shots.) Of course, for Hickey to have fired the
third shot means they were wrong.
Not necessarily. A large number of witnesses reported the last shot
as "Bam-Bam". Either an echo or two shots fired simultaneously.
Some ear-witnesses thought the last two shots were closer together, some
did not. But how many heard the last two really close together like your
Bam-Bam?
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
However, the three Depository workers' testimony is backed
up--corroborated--by the evidence. Three Carcano shells were
found on the 6th floor, along with the paper bag, and the rifle.
One of the empty shells had a dent.
"It was true that three spent Carcano shells were found on the floor
of the Book Depository. . . . Yet one of the shells was dented and
showed numerous marks from the carrier, the large spring in the
Carcano clip that pushed the bullet up to the chamber. Donahue
did not believe this dented shell could have been used to fire a
bullet that day. The gun would not have functioned properly.
(Mortal Error, New York: St. Martin's Press, 1991, p. 114)
BD has argued this with you a bunch, and I agree with his points.
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Remnants of bullets fired by Oswald's Carcano were found in the Limo.
The President was injured by fragments from the First Shot ricochet.
I believe you use the morticians for this. Would you give us a cite for
what they said?
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
To back up a bit, I don't believe you've gotten past the Bronson film.
While it's not completely definitive, it appears to show Hickey sitting
down with the AR pointing skyward at the time the head shot arrives.
Mark
Can you tell me which frames you are referring to?
Yes. They were posted on here not long ago. From the Myers/Russo online
http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2013/08/drums-of-conspiracy.html
Mark
Dale Myers is a brilliant researcher on this case, but he got the wrong
Bronson frame.
How far off is he? One or two frames too early or too late? How many
tenths of a second are you claiming?

I'll end by, one more time, quoting Dave Powers.

Kenneth O'Donnell died in 1977 from the consequences of alcoholism. He was
not alive to agree with his friend, as I think he surely would have, about
the Donahue Theory:

"Someone a foot away from me or two feet away from me couldn't fire the
gun without me hearing it."

Mark
Anthony Marsh
2019-04-27 01:26:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
There is a new Technical development in this case that is HUGE.
The prototype AR-15 had a serious defect. The firing pin was too
heavy and the rifle would literally fire itself with no pressure on the
trigger.
I'm sure you're going to hear this from others, but I think you are
grasping.
For what? This was a closely guarded secrete until the problem was
analyzed and fixed. The SSA rifle came from the original group the
USAF ordered. One more reason for a Friendly Fire accident during
the sudden ambush on the Motorcade.
The main reason I say you're grasping is because a shot from the AR-15
does not match the ballistic evidence. As for other reasons, see my
answers below.
You have that backwards. The AR15 .223 matched the head shot terminal
ballistics, not the tough Carcano 6.5mm. The AR-15 had a tumbling
fragmenting problem from the start. The highly stable Carcano bullet had
the opposite reputation of drilling survivable holes in enemy soldiers.
That is how it got the reputation as the "Humanitarian Rifle" of two World
Wars.
Post by Mark
Not that I don't believe you, but would you give me your source that
Hickey's rifle came from the "original group"? I would like to read up
on it more.
https://cdn0.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/President-Kennedy-courtesy-motherjones.com_.jpg
"Although civilian AR-15 production began in 1963, The Colt Heritage
(R.L. Wilson) states that this rifle was given to JFK in the White House
in 1962."
Not GIVEN. SHOWN TO.
Prototype of the M-16.
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
This would happen when a full clip was put already inserted but no
bullet in the chamber. To insert the first round in the chamber the
shooter must rack the charging handle, then the first round snaps
into place. This step is where the problem was located.
Sometimes the first round would fire itself with no trigger pull. This
is called a "slam fire" which could be deadly if any person is located
downrange in front of the barrel. The problem was first discovered
in Vietnam and Colt engineers figured out what the problem was.
They analyzed the firing mechanism and determined the original
firing pin was 2 oz too heavy. The firing pin was redesigned and
that cured the problem. No more slam-fire with the AR-15.
I'm familiar with slam fire, but do you have evidence Hickey's rifle was
one that had the problem?
My understanding it came from the same production group for the
USAF and tested in Vietnam, where the problem was discovered.
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
The AR-15 carried by the SSA in the Dallas motorcade was a USAF
original model so chances are that rifle had the uncorrected heavy
firing pin situation. What this means, there is a high probability SSA
Hickey never touched the trigger. When he instinctively chambered
the first round the rifle fired itself.
Do you think Hickey would have chambered a round with with the rifle
pointing at the people in front of him? I doubt if that was the way he
was trained on it.
Safe Way: clip-in + empty-chamber. *
Quick Way: clip-in + one-in-the-chamber.
* Normally with no slam-fire problems.
I don't believe if Hickey, during his training, found a slam-fire problem
with the AR, he would have approved it for Secret Service use.
I should hope not. My understanding prototype AR-15s were tested in
combat with ARVN troops, who reported massive wounds on enemy
VC and that is where the slam-fire problem was first experienced.
I think you are conflating the AR-15 with the M-16.
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Do we know if Hickey had to chamber a round after hearing
Oswald's shots? Or did he have a bullet already chambered
with the safety engaged?
Hard to say. Either one makes sense.
Well, one of the two rules out a slam-fire.
If the first round is already in the chamber simply move switch
to Fire. No need to rack the first round into the chamber.
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
If true, SSA Hickey was NOT negligent in handling the rifle. Very likely
he lost balance when the Limousines halted suddenly, causing him to
fall forward. SSA Hickey made a heroic effort to return fire at a sniper,
what every Marine learned to do in the South Pacific during WWII.
You're being vague again.
In what way?
You're not telling us what you think happened. I take it you
want to separate the two and offer both as possibilities?
Yes.
Post by Mark
Do you think by offering us a multiple-choice it strengthens your
position? Either it was an accidental trigger pull or a slam-fire?
Isn't that obvious?
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
So now Hickey fell forward, but didn't accidentally pull the trigger.
Instead while he was falling forward he was also trying to chamber
a round and the rifle slam fired and hit JFK.
Is that about right?
You do realize a well placed Witness saw a SSA with "machine-gun"
stand up and fall down, then the motorcade sped away" right? The
only SSA with a "machine-gun" was SSA Hickey, and in his official
incident report he admits to standing up twice while the Limousine
was under fire.
Yes, I do. But I would not stake my reputation on one witness.
One well placed witness on top of the RR Trestle with the Motorcade
coming downhill right under where he's standing.
Post by Mark
But there are three witnesses that you now, like many of the CTs, have to
believe were lying or mistaken. Bonnie Ray Williams, James Jarman and
Harold Norman testified they heard three shots being fired right above
them, from the 6th floor.
Only one witness said that on first interview. Later the other two
witnesses echoed the first witness. This was pointed out to me
by a CT. I double checked and he was right.
Post by Mark
(Keeping in mind the vast majority of Dealey Plaza ear-witnesses
heard only three shots.) Of course, for Hickey to have fired the
third shot means they were wrong.
Not necessarily. A large number of witnesses reported the last shot
as "Bam-Bam". Either an echo or two shots fired simultaneously.
Post by Mark
However, the three Depository workers' testimony is backed
up--corroborated--by the evidence. Three Carcano shells were
found on the 6th floor, along with the paper bag, and the rifle.
One of the empty shells had a dent.
"It was true that three spent Carcano shells were found on the floor
of the Book Depository. . . . Yet one of the shells was dented and
showed numerous marks from the carrier, the large spring in the
Carcano clip that pushed the bullet up to the chamber. Donahue
did not believe this dented shell could have been used to fire a
bullet that day. The gun would not have functioned properly.
(Mortal Error, New York: St. Martin's Press, 1991, p. 114)
Post by Mark
Remnants of bullets fired by Oswald's Carcano were found in the Limo.
The President was injured by fragments from the First Shot ricochet.
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
To back up a bit, I don't believe you've gotten past the Bronson film.
While it's not completely definitive, it appears to show Hickey sitting
down with the AR pointing skyward at the time the head shot arrives.
Mark
Can you tell me which frames you are referring to?
Yes. They were posted on here not long ago. From the Myers/Russo online
http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2013/08/drums-of-conspiracy.html
Mark
Dale Myers is a brilliant researcher on this case, but he got the wrong
Bronson frame.
bigdog
2019-04-28 01:05:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
There is a new Technical development in this case that is HUGE.
The prototype AR-15 had a serious defect. The firing pin was too
heavy and the rifle would literally fire itself with no pressure on the
trigger.
I'm sure you're going to hear this from others, but I think you are
grasping.
For what? This was a closely guarded secrete until the problem was
analyzed and fixed. The SSA rifle came from the original group the
USAF ordered. One more reason for a Friendly Fire accident during
the sudden ambush on the Motorcade.
The main reason I say you're grasping is because a shot from the AR-15
does not match the ballistic evidence. As for other reasons, see my
answers below.
You have that backwards. The AR15 .223 matched the head shot terminal
ballistics, not the tough Carcano 6.5mm. The AR-15 had a tumbling
fragmenting problem from the start. The highly stable Carcano bullet had
the opposite reputation of drilling survivable holes in enemy soldiers.
That is how it got the reputation as the "Humanitarian Rifle" of two World
Wars.
Post by Mark
Not that I don't believe you, but would you give me your source that
Hickey's rifle came from the "original group"? I would like to read up
on it more.
https://cdn0.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/President-Kennedy-courtesy-motherjones.com_.jpg
"Although civilian AR-15 production began in 1963, The Colt Heritage
(R.L. Wilson) states that this rifle was given to JFK in the White House
in 1962."
Not GIVEN. SHOWN TO.
Prototype of the M-16.
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
This would happen when a full clip was put already inserted but no
bullet in the chamber. To insert the first round in the chamber the
shooter must rack the charging handle, then the first round snaps
into place. This step is where the problem was located.
Sometimes the first round would fire itself with no trigger pull. This
is called a "slam fire" which could be deadly if any person is located
downrange in front of the barrel. The problem was first discovered
in Vietnam and Colt engineers figured out what the problem was.
They analyzed the firing mechanism and determined the original
firing pin was 2 oz too heavy. The firing pin was redesigned and
that cured the problem. No more slam-fire with the AR-15.
I'm familiar with slam fire, but do you have evidence Hickey's rifle was
one that had the problem?
My understanding it came from the same production group for the
USAF and tested in Vietnam, where the problem was discovered.
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
The AR-15 carried by the SSA in the Dallas motorcade was a USAF
original model so chances are that rifle had the uncorrected heavy
firing pin situation. What this means, there is a high probability SSA
Hickey never touched the trigger. When he instinctively chambered
the first round the rifle fired itself.
Do you think Hickey would have chambered a round with with the rifle
pointing at the people in front of him? I doubt if that was the way he
was trained on it.
Safe Way: clip-in + empty-chamber. *
Quick Way: clip-in + one-in-the-chamber.
* Normally with no slam-fire problems.
I don't believe if Hickey, during his training, found a slam-fire problem
with the AR, he would have approved it for Secret Service use.
I should hope not. My understanding prototype AR-15s were tested in
combat with ARVN troops, who reported massive wounds on enemy
VC and that is where the slam-fire problem was first experienced.
I think you are conflating the AR-15 with the M-16.
The M-16 was nothing more than the military's designation for the select
fire AR-15 which was adopted as the standard battlefield rifle in the
1960s. Armalite which developed the weapon sold the patent to Colt to
produce the rifle in quantities required by the armed forces. Later Colt
would develop a semi-auto version of the AR-15. It has become common to
refer to the semi-auto version as ant AR-15 to distinguish it from the
select fire M-16 but in reality they are all AR=15s. The AR stands for
Armalite Rifle which was the designation of the rifle when Armalite sold
it to Colt in 1959 before a semi-auto version had even been developed.
Colt later trademarked the AR designation.
r***@gmail.com
2019-04-22 21:49:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
The AR-15 carried by the SSA in the Dallas motorcade was a USAF
original model so chances are that rifle had the uncorrected heavy
firing pin situation. What this means, there is a high probability SSA
Hickey never touched the trigger. When he instinctively chambered
the first round the rifle fired itself.
Do you think Hickey would have chambered a round with with the rifle
pointing at the people in front of him? I doubt if that was the way he
was trained on it.
Safe Way: clip-in + empty-chamber. *
Quick Way: clip-in + one-in-the-chamber.
*Normally with no slam-fire problems.
The proper way to carry a weapon at the ready is
with a round in the chamber. When the shit hits
the fan, you aren't going to have time to cycle
the action to get a round in the chamber. If you
want to prevent accidental discharge with a loaded
weapon, well, that's why the AR has a safety.
claviger
2019-04-23 17:34:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
The AR-15 carried by the SSA in the Dallas motorcade was a USAF
original model so chances are that rifle had the uncorrected heavy
firing pin situation. What this means, there is a high probability SSA
Hickey never touched the trigger. When he instinctively chambered
the first round the rifle fired itself.
Do you think Hickey would have chambered a round with with the rifle
pointing at the people in front of him? I doubt if that was the way he
was trained on it.
Safe Way: clip-in + empty-chamber. *
Quick Way: clip-in + one-in-the-chamber.
*Normally with no slam-fire problems.
The proper way to carry a weapon at the ready is
with a round in the chamber. When the shit hits
the fan, you aren't going to have time to cycle
the action to get a round in the chamber. If you
want to prevent accidental discharge with a loaded
weapon, well, that's why the AR has a safety.
I don't argue that, but it was a new high-tech weapon
with devastating ammunition so I can understand the
extra step if that was the case.
bigdog
2019-04-24 02:15:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
The AR-15 carried by the SSA in the Dallas motorcade was a USAF
original model so chances are that rifle had the uncorrected heavy
firing pin situation. What this means, there is a high probability SSA
Hickey never touched the trigger. When he instinctively chambered
the first round the rifle fired itself.
Do you think Hickey would have chambered a round with with the rifle
pointing at the people in front of him? I doubt if that was the way he
was trained on it.
Safe Way: clip-in + empty-chamber. *
Quick Way: clip-in + one-in-the-chamber.
*Normally with no slam-fire problems.
The proper way to carry a weapon at the ready is
with a round in the chamber. When the shit hits
the fan, you aren't going to have time to cycle
the action to get a round in the chamber. If you
want to prevent accidental discharge with a loaded
weapon, well, that's why the AR has a safety.
This isn't pertinent to the discussion of an accidental discharge by
Hickey of the AR-15 but I don't carry my Glock with a round in the
chamber. The design of the Glock makes it too easy to discharge
accidentally when drawing the pistol. The Glock safety mechanism is
released with a trigger pull. That makes the risk outweigh benefit of
carrying a round in the chamber. You could literally shoot yourself in the
foot when drawing your weapon, particularly in a defensive situation. It
takes but a second to chamber a round and in most cases I'm going to be
assessing the situation before deciding to fire. I won't win any quick
draw contests but I'm not likely to even with a round in the chamber.
Anthony Marsh
2019-04-25 18:21:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by bigdog
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
The AR-15 carried by the SSA in the Dallas motorcade was a USAF
original model so chances are that rifle had the uncorrected heavy
firing pin situation. What this means, there is a high probability SSA
Hickey never touched the trigger. When he instinctively chambered
the first round the rifle fired itself.
Do you think Hickey would have chambered a round with with the rifle
pointing at the people in front of him? I doubt if that was the way he
was trained on it.
Safe Way: clip-in + empty-chamber. *
Quick Way: clip-in + one-in-the-chamber.
*Normally with no slam-fire problems.
The proper way to carry a weapon at the ready is
with a round in the chamber. When the shit hits
the fan, you aren't going to have time to cycle
the action to get a round in the chamber. If you
want to prevent accidental discharge with a loaded
weapon, well, that's why the AR has a safety.
This isn't pertinent to the discussion of an accidental discharge by
Hickey of the AR-15 but I don't carry my Glock with a round in the
chamber. The design of the Glock makes it too easy to discharge
accidentally when drawing the pistol. The Glock safety mechanism is
released with a trigger pull. That makes the risk outweigh benefit of
carrying a round in the chamber. You could literally shoot yourself in the
foot when drawing your weapon, particularly in a defensive situation. It
takes but a second to chamber a round and in most cases I'm going to be
assessing the situation before deciding to fire. I won't win any quick
draw contests but I'm not likely to even with a round in the chamber.
We have some cops up in our area who accidentally shot themselves,
presumably with a Glock.
I talked to my cop friend about this and he said that the whole city has
changed to the Sig Saur which does not even have a safety.

I wonder if all thos white cops who shoot and kill black people keep
using the excuse that the gun went off accidentally?
Rule 1: Never aim a gun at anything you don't intend to kill.
bigdog
2019-04-26 15:43:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
The AR-15 carried by the SSA in the Dallas motorcade was a USAF
original model so chances are that rifle had the uncorrected heavy
firing pin situation. What this means, there is a high probability SSA
Hickey never touched the trigger. When he instinctively chambered
the first round the rifle fired itself.
Do you think Hickey would have chambered a round with with the rifle
pointing at the people in front of him? I doubt if that was the way he
was trained on it.
Safe Way: clip-in + empty-chamber. *
Quick Way: clip-in + one-in-the-chamber.
*Normally with no slam-fire problems.
The proper way to carry a weapon at the ready is
with a round in the chamber. When the shit hits
the fan, you aren't going to have time to cycle
the action to get a round in the chamber. If you
want to prevent accidental discharge with a loaded
weapon, well, that's why the AR has a safety.
This isn't pertinent to the discussion of an accidental discharge by
Hickey of the AR-15 but I don't carry my Glock with a round in the
chamber. The design of the Glock makes it too easy to discharge
accidentally when drawing the pistol. The Glock safety mechanism is
released with a trigger pull. That makes the risk outweigh benefit of
carrying a round in the chamber. You could literally shoot yourself in the
foot when drawing your weapon, particularly in a defensive situation. It
takes but a second to chamber a round and in most cases I'm going to be
assessing the situation before deciding to fire. I won't win any quick
draw contests but I'm not likely to even with a round in the chamber.
We have some cops up in our area who accidentally shot themselves,
presumably with a Glock.
I talked to my cop friend about this and he said that the whole city has
changed to the Sig Saur which does not even have a safety.
I wonder if all thos white cops who shoot and kill black people keep
using the excuse that the gun went off accidentally?
Rule 1: Never aim a gun at anything you don't intend to kill.
It's not often you post something that I agree with so it is worth noting
when you do. This is certainly one of the cardinal rules of gun safety.
Each of these rules provides an additional layer of safety. As humans, we
are prone to making errors. When an error is made with a firearm, the
results can be tragic. The reason we have multiple layers of safety rules
is that if we make one mistake a tragedy won't result as long as the other
rules have been followed. If a gun is accidentally discharged, that
mistake won't result in a tragedy as long as the other rules have been
followed. If the gun has been pointed in a safe direction, at the sky or
the ground, an accidentally discharge should not cause a tragic accident.
It might scare the hell out of the people nearby, but no one will be
harmed. When an accidental discharge does cause a tragedy, it is because
multiple rules of firearm safety have been violated.
Anthony Marsh
2019-04-27 01:26:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
The AR-15 carried by the SSA in the Dallas motorcade was a USAF
original model so chances are that rifle had the uncorrected heavy
firing pin situation. What this means, there is a high probability SSA
Hickey never touched the trigger. When he instinctively chambered
the first round the rifle fired itself.
Do you think Hickey would have chambered a round with with the rifle
pointing at the people in front of him? I doubt if that was the way he
was trained on it.
Safe Way: clip-in + empty-chamber. *
Quick Way: clip-in + one-in-the-chamber.
*Normally with no slam-fire problems.
The proper way to carry a weapon at the ready is
with a round in the chamber. When the shit hits
the fan, you aren't going to have time to cycle
the action to get a round in the chamber. If you
want to prevent accidental discharge with a loaded
weapon, well, that's why the AR has a safety.
This isn't pertinent to the discussion of an accidental discharge by
Hickey of the AR-15 but I don't carry my Glock with a round in the
chamber. The design of the Glock makes it too easy to discharge
accidentally when drawing the pistol. The Glock safety mechanism is
released with a trigger pull. That makes the risk outweigh benefit of
carrying a round in the chamber. You could literally shoot yourself in the
foot when drawing your weapon, particularly in a defensive situation. It
takes but a second to chamber a round and in most cases I'm going to be
assessing the situation before deciding to fire. I won't win any quick
draw contests but I'm not likely to even with a round in the chamber.
We have some cops up in our area who accidentally shot themselves,
presumably with a Glock.
I talked to my cop friend about this and he said that the whole city has
changed to the Sig Saur which does not even have a safety.
I wonder if all thos white cops who shoot and kill black people keep
using the excuse that the gun went off accidentally?
Rule 1: Never aim a gun at anything you don't intend to kill.
It's not often you post something that I agree with so it is worth noting
when you do. This is certainly one of the cardinal rules of gun safety.
Guess when I learned it? When I was 5 years old at summer camp and we
were taught how to shoot .22 rifles.
Post by bigdog
Each of these rules provides an additional layer of safety. As humans, we
are prone to making errors. When an error is made with a firearm, the
results can be tragic. The reason we have multiple layers of safety rules
is that if we make one mistake a tragedy won't result as long as the other
rules have been followed. If a gun is accidentally discharged, that
mistake won't result in a tragedy as long as the other rules have been
followed. If the gun has been pointed in a safe direction, at the sky or
the ground, an accidentally discharge should not cause a tragic accident.
It might scare the hell out of the people nearby, but no one will be
harmed. When an accidental discharge does cause a tragedy, it is because
multiple rules of firearm safety have been violated.
r***@gmail.com
2019-04-25 19:12:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by bigdog
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
The AR-15 carried by the SSA in the Dallas motorcade was a USAF
original model so chances are that rifle had the uncorrected heavy
firing pin situation. What this means, there is a high probability SSA
Hickey never touched the trigger. When he instinctively chambered
the first round the rifle fired itself.
Do you think Hickey would have chambered a round with with the rifle
pointing at the people in front of him? I doubt if that was the way he
was trained on it.
Safe Way: clip-in + empty-chamber. *
Quick Way: clip-in + one-in-the-chamber.
*Normally with no slam-fire problems.
The proper way to carry a weapon at the ready is
with a round in the chamber. When the shit hits
the fan, you aren't going to have time to cycle
the action to get a round in the chamber. If you
want to prevent accidental discharge with a loaded
weapon, well, that's why the AR has a safety.
This isn't pertinent to the discussion of an accidental discharge by
Hickey of the AR-15 but I don't carry my Glock with a round in the
chamber. The design of the Glock makes it too easy to discharge
accidentally when drawing the pistol. The Glock safety mechanism is
released with a trigger pull. That makes the risk outweigh benefit of
carrying a round in the chamber. You could literally shoot yourself in the
foot when drawing your weapon, particularly in a defensive situation. It
takes but a second to chamber a round and in most cases I'm going to be
assessing the situation before deciding to fire. I won't win any quick
draw contests but I'm not likely to even with a round in the chamber.
The problem is, chambering a round takes that second out
of your response in a race where fractions of a second
can determine the winner and the loser, and the stakes are
high. There was an incident a year or two ago where a
hunting guide was killed by bears. The hunter he was
guiding saw the bears charge and had a 10mm pistol with
a full magazine. However, he couldn't get a round
chambered before the bears were on top of both men.

Mind you, I have sympathy for your position, especially
with a Glock, which doesn't have a safety in the traditional
sense. But the AR-15 has a safety, so all they'd need to
do is engage it.
claviger
2019-04-26 00:55:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by bigdog
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
The AR-15 carried by the SSA in the Dallas motorcade was a USAF
original model so chances are that rifle had the uncorrected heavy
firing pin situation. What this means, there is a high probability SSA
Hickey never touched the trigger. When he instinctively chambered
the first round the rifle fired itself.
Do you think Hickey would have chambered a round with with the rifle
pointing at the people in front of him? I doubt if that was the way he
was trained on it.
Safe Way: clip-in + empty-chamber. *
Quick Way: clip-in + one-in-the-chamber.
*Normally with no slam-fire problems.
The proper way to carry a weapon at the ready is
with a round in the chamber. When the shit hits
the fan, you aren't going to have time to cycle
the action to get a round in the chamber. If you
want to prevent accidental discharge with a loaded
weapon, well, that's why the AR has a safety.
This isn't pertinent to the discussion of an accidental discharge by
Hickey of the AR-15 but I don't carry my Glock with a round in the
chamber. The design of the Glock makes it too easy to discharge
accidentally when drawing the pistol. The Glock safety mechanism is
released with a trigger pull. That makes the risk outweigh benefit of
carrying a round in the chamber. You could literally shoot yourself in the
foot when drawing your weapon, particularly in a defensive situation. It
takes but a second to chamber a round and in most cases I'm going to be
assessing the situation before deciding to fire. I won't win any quick
draw contests but I'm not likely to even with a round in the chamber.
The problem is, chambering a round takes that second out
of your response in a race where fractions of a second
can determine the winner and the loser, and the stakes are
high. There was an incident a year or two ago where a
hunting guide was killed by bears. The hunter he was
guiding saw the bears charge and had a 10mm pistol with
a full magazine. However, he couldn't get a round
chambered before the bears were on top of both men.
Mind you, I have sympathy for your position, especially
with a Glock, which doesn't have a safety in the traditional
sense. But the AR-15 has a safety, so all they'd need to
do is engage it.
With a new experimental high-tech prototype rifle I can
understand if the SSA opted for maximum safety status
for this weapon they were not yet familiar with.
bigdog
2019-04-26 15:50:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by bigdog
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
The AR-15 carried by the SSA in the Dallas motorcade was a USAF
original model so chances are that rifle had the uncorrected heavy
firing pin situation. What this means, there is a high probability SSA
Hickey never touched the trigger. When he instinctively chambered
the first round the rifle fired itself.
Do you think Hickey would have chambered a round with with the rifle
pointing at the people in front of him? I doubt if that was the way he
was trained on it.
Safe Way: clip-in + empty-chamber. *
Quick Way: clip-in + one-in-the-chamber.
*Normally with no slam-fire problems.
The proper way to carry a weapon at the ready is
with a round in the chamber. When the shit hits
the fan, you aren't going to have time to cycle
the action to get a round in the chamber. If you
want to prevent accidental discharge with a loaded
weapon, well, that's why the AR has a safety.
This isn't pertinent to the discussion of an accidental discharge by
Hickey of the AR-15 but I don't carry my Glock with a round in the
chamber. The design of the Glock makes it too easy to discharge
accidentally when drawing the pistol. The Glock safety mechanism is
released with a trigger pull. That makes the risk outweigh benefit of
carrying a round in the chamber. You could literally shoot yourself in the
foot when drawing your weapon, particularly in a defensive situation. It
takes but a second to chamber a round and in most cases I'm going to be
assessing the situation before deciding to fire. I won't win any quick
draw contests but I'm not likely to even with a round in the chamber.
The problem is, chambering a round takes that second out
of your response in a race where fractions of a second
can determine the winner and the loser, and the stakes are
high. There was an incident a year or two ago where a
hunting guide was killed by bears. The hunter he was
guiding saw the bears charge and had a 10mm pistol with
a full magazine. However, he couldn't get a round
chambered before the bears were on top of both men.
Mind you, I have sympathy for your position, especially
with a Glock, which doesn't have a safety in the traditional
sense. But the AR-15 has a safety, so all they'd need to
do is engage it.
This is where one must weigh the risks against the benefits. Having a
round chambered does provide the benefit of faster response time but does
that justify the additional risk of an accidental discharge which can
occur even when there is not a defensive situation. If I am in a situation
in which I need an immediate response, I am already behind the 8-ball
because my weapon will be holstered. If I am facing an attacker with a
knife or a gun, chances are I'm not going to get my weapon drawn in time
anyway. I carry my weapon for those instances in which I am going to have
time to perceive and assess the threat before making the decision to fire.
I have no statistics to back this up, but it is my judgement that would be
the case in most instances of defensive gun uses. If I knew what kind of
threat I am going to face I would know whether it would be better to keep
a round in the chamber but since I don't know that, the likelihood is I
will have time to assess the threat before I need to fire my weapon. In I
need a fast draw to defend myself against the threat, I'm likely to lose
that anyway. For that reason, I think the risk of carrying my Glock with a
round chambered outweighs the benefit.

I've had this conversation in other discussion groups and I will admit
that most people I've talked with agree with your position. I'm just not
one of them. I don't anticipate that I will be firing my weapon in the
first second after I draw it from the holster so I will continue to carry
with an empty chamber. I have ten toes and I'd like to keep all of them.
Mitch Todd
2019-04-27 22:08:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by bigdog
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by bigdog
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
The AR-15 carried by the SSA in the Dallas motorcade was a USAF
original model so chances are that rifle had the uncorrected heavy
firing pin situation. What this means, there is a high probability SSA
Hickey never touched the trigger. When he instinctively chambered
the first round the rifle fired itself.
Do you think Hickey would have chambered a round with with the rifle
pointing at the people in front of him? I doubt if that was the way he
was trained on it.
Safe Way: clip-in + empty-chamber. *
Quick Way: clip-in + one-in-the-chamber.
*Normally with no slam-fire problems.
The proper way to carry a weapon at the ready is
with a round in the chamber. When the shit hits
the fan, you aren't going to have time to cycle
the action to get a round in the chamber. If you
want to prevent accidental discharge with a loaded
weapon, well, that's why the AR has a safety.
This isn't pertinent to the discussion of an accidental discharge by
Hickey of the AR-15 but I don't carry my Glock with a round in the
chamber. The design of the Glock makes it too easy to discharge
accidentally when drawing the pistol. The Glock safety mechanism is
released with a trigger pull. That makes the risk outweigh benefit of
carrying a round in the chamber. You could literally shoot yourself in the
foot when drawing your weapon, particularly in a defensive situation. It
takes but a second to chamber a round and in most cases I'm going to be
assessing the situation before deciding to fire. I won't win any quick
draw contests but I'm not likely to even with a round in the chamber.
The problem is, chambering a round takes that second out
of your response in a race where fractions of a second
can determine the winner and the loser, and the stakes are
high. There was an incident a year or two ago where a
hunting guide was killed by bears. The hunter he was
guiding saw the bears charge and had a 10mm pistol with
a full magazine. However, he couldn't get a round
chambered before the bears were on top of both men.
Mind you, I have sympathy for your position, especially
with a Glock, which doesn't have a safety in the traditional
sense. But the AR-15 has a safety, so all they'd need to
do is engage it.
This is where one must weigh the risks against the benefits. Having a
round chambered does provide the benefit of faster response time but does
that justify the additional risk of an accidental discharge which can
occur even when there is not a defensive situation. If I am in a situation
in which I need an immediate response, I am already behind the 8-ball
because my weapon will be holstered. If I am facing an attacker with a
knife or a gun, chances are I'm not going to get my weapon drawn in time
anyway. I carry my weapon for those instances in which I am going to have
time to perceive and assess the threat before making the decision to fire.
I have no statistics to back this up, but it is my judgement that would be
the case in most instances of defensive gun uses. If I knew what kind of
threat I am going to face I would know whether it would be better to keep
a round in the chamber but since I don't know that, the likelihood is I
will have time to assess the threat before I need to fire my weapon. In I
need a fast draw to defend myself against the threat, I'm likely to lose
that anyway. For that reason, I think the risk of carrying my Glock with a
round chambered outweighs the benefit.
I've had this conversation in other discussion groups and I will admit
that most people I've talked with agree with your position. I'm just not
one of them. I don't anticipate that I will be firing my weapon in the
first second after I draw it from the holster so I will continue to carry
with an empty chamber. I have ten toes and I'd like to keep all of them.
Like I said, I have some sympathy for your position. However,
the simple solution to your particular conundrum is simply to
replace the Glock with something that features a good thumb
safety. Good examples can definitely be had from S&W and
Walther and probably other manufacturers as well.
bigdog
2019-04-29 00:57:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mitch Todd
Post by bigdog
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by bigdog
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
The AR-15 carried by the SSA in the Dallas motorcade was a USAF
original model so chances are that rifle had the uncorrected heavy
firing pin situation. What this means, there is a high probability SSA
Hickey never touched the trigger. When he instinctively chambered
the first round the rifle fired itself.
Do you think Hickey would have chambered a round with with the rifle
pointing at the people in front of him? I doubt if that was the way he
was trained on it.
Safe Way: clip-in + empty-chamber. *
Quick Way: clip-in + one-in-the-chamber.
*Normally with no slam-fire problems.
The proper way to carry a weapon at the ready is
with a round in the chamber. When the shit hits
the fan, you aren't going to have time to cycle
the action to get a round in the chamber. If you
want to prevent accidental discharge with a loaded
weapon, well, that's why the AR has a safety.
This isn't pertinent to the discussion of an accidental discharge by
Hickey of the AR-15 but I don't carry my Glock with a round in the
chamber. The design of the Glock makes it too easy to discharge
accidentally when drawing the pistol. The Glock safety mechanism is
released with a trigger pull. That makes the risk outweigh benefit of
carrying a round in the chamber. You could literally shoot yourself in the
foot when drawing your weapon, particularly in a defensive situation. It
takes but a second to chamber a round and in most cases I'm going to be
assessing the situation before deciding to fire. I won't win any quick
draw contests but I'm not likely to even with a round in the chamber.
The problem is, chambering a round takes that second out
of your response in a race where fractions of a second
can determine the winner and the loser, and the stakes are
high. There was an incident a year or two ago where a
hunting guide was killed by bears. The hunter he was
guiding saw the bears charge and had a 10mm pistol with
a full magazine. However, he couldn't get a round
chambered before the bears were on top of both men.
Mind you, I have sympathy for your position, especially
with a Glock, which doesn't have a safety in the traditional
sense. But the AR-15 has a safety, so all they'd need to
do is engage it.
This is where one must weigh the risks against the benefits. Having a
round chambered does provide the benefit of faster response time but does
that justify the additional risk of an accidental discharge which can
occur even when there is not a defensive situation. If I am in a situation
in which I need an immediate response, I am already behind the 8-ball
because my weapon will be holstered. If I am facing an attacker with a
knife or a gun, chances are I'm not going to get my weapon drawn in time
anyway. I carry my weapon for those instances in which I am going to have
time to perceive and assess the threat before making the decision to fire.
I have no statistics to back this up, but it is my judgement that would be
the case in most instances of defensive gun uses. If I knew what kind of
threat I am going to face I would know whether it would be better to keep
a round in the chamber but since I don't know that, the likelihood is I
will have time to assess the threat before I need to fire my weapon. In I
need a fast draw to defend myself against the threat, I'm likely to lose
that anyway. For that reason, I think the risk of carrying my Glock with a
round chambered outweighs the benefit.
I've had this conversation in other discussion groups and I will admit
that most people I've talked with agree with your position. I'm just not
one of them. I don't anticipate that I will be firing my weapon in the
first second after I draw it from the holster so I will continue to carry
with an empty chamber. I have ten toes and I'd like to keep all of them.
Like I said, I have some sympathy for your position. However,
the simple solution to your particular conundrum is simply to
replace the Glock with something that features a good thumb
safety. Good examples can definitely be had from S&W and
Walther and probably other manufacturers as well.
I spent around $600 for my Glock about 20 years ago. It still works fine.
I'm not about to replace it. Other semi-auto handguns have a traditional
safety and/or require cocking. Those have to be set before the gun can be
fired so how much time do they really save? A split second? I'll take my
chances on chambering a round in time. If you choose otherwise, that's
fine. Your choice is not for me.
Anthony Marsh
2019-04-24 16:41:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
The AR-15 carried by the SSA in the Dallas motorcade was a USAF
original model so chances are that rifle had the uncorrected heavy
firing pin situation. What this means, there is a high probability SSA
Hickey never touched the trigger. When he instinctively chambered
the first round the rifle fired itself.
Do you think Hickey would have chambered a round with with the rifle
pointing at the people in front of him? I doubt if that was the way he
was trained on it.
Safe Way: clip-in + empty-chamber. *
Quick Way: clip-in + one-in-the-chamber.
*Normally with no slam-fire problems.
The proper way to carry a weapon at the ready is
with a round in the chamber. When the shit hits
the fan, you aren't going to have time to cycle
the action to get a round in the chamber. If you
want to prevent accidental discharge with a loaded
weapon, well, that's why the AR has a safety.
Silly boy. Stop telling the tuth like that.
He'll just counter that the prototype experimental AR-15 did not have a
safety.
claviger
2019-04-25 19:08:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Silly boy. Stop telling the tuth like that.
He'll just counter that the prototype
experimental AR-15 did not have a safety.
Why do you assume recipient.x is a boy?
Anthony Marsh
2019-04-23 17:33:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by claviger
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
There is a new Technical development in this case that is HUGE.
The prototype AR-15 had a serious defect. The firing pin was too
heavy and the rifle would literally fire itself with no pressure on the
trigger.
I'm sure you're going to hear this from others, but I think you are
grasping.
For what? This was a closely guarded secrete until the problem was
Une secrete?Why were the French keeping it a secret from the US?
Post by claviger
analyzed and fixed. The SSA rifle came from the original group the
USAF ordered. One more reason for a Friendly Fire accident during
the sudden ambush on the Motorcade.
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
This would happen when a full clip was put already inserted but no
bullet in the chamber. To insert the first round in the chamber the
shooter must rack the charging handle, then the first round snaps
into place. This step is where the problem was located.
Sometimes the first round would fire itself with no trigger pull. This
is called a "slam fire" which could be deadly if any person is located
downrange in front of the barrel. The problem was first discovered
in Vietnam and Colt engineers figured out what the problem was.
They analyzed the firing mechanism and determined the original
firing pin was 2 oz too heavy. The firing pin was redesigned and
that cured the problem. No more slam-fire with the AR-15.
I'm familiar with slam fire, but do you have evidence Hickey's rifle was
one that had the problem?
My understanding it came from the same production group for the
USAF and tested in Vietnam, where the problem was discovered.
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
The AR-15 carried by the SSA in the Dallas motorcade was a USAF
original model so chances are that rifle had the uncorrected heavy
firing pin situation. What this means, there is a high probability SSA
Hickey never touched the trigger. When he instinctively chambered
the first round the rifle fired itself.
Do you think Hickey would have chambered a round with with the rifle
pointing at the people in front of him? I doubt if that was the way he
was trained on it.
Safe Way: clip-in + empty-chamber. *
Quick Way: clip-in + one-in-the-chamber.
*Normally with no slam-fire problems.
Post by Mark
Do we know if Hickey had to chamber a round after hearing Oswald's shots?
Or did he have a bullet already chambered with the safety engaged?
Hard to say. Either one makes sense.
Post by Mark
Post by claviger
If true, SSA Hickey was NOT negligent in handling the rifle. Very likely
he lost balance when the Limousines halted suddenly, causing him to
fall forward. SSA Hickey made a heroic effort to return fire at a sniper,
what every Marine learned to do in the South Pacific during WWII.
You're being vague again.
In what way?
Post by Mark
So now Hickey fell forward, but didn't accidentally pull the trigger.
Instead while he was falling forward he was also trying to chamber
a round and the rifle slam fired and hit JFK.
Is that about right?
You do realize a well placed Witness saw a SSA with "machine-gun"
stand up and fall down, then the motorcade sped away" right? The
only SSA with a "machine-gun" was SSA Hickey, and in his official
incident report he admits to standing up twice while the Limousine
was under fire.
Post by Mark
To back up a bit, I don't believe you've gotten past the Bronson film.
While it's not completely definitive, it appears to show Hickey sitting
down with the AR pointing skyward at the time the head shot arrives.
Mark
Can you tell me which frames you are referring to?
JFK Assassination Photographs JFK Assassination Gallery films ...
https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/
Home > JFK Assassination > Bronson Gallery
https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/thumbnails.php?album=15
Mark
2019-04-18 01:52:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by claviger
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by claviger
Post by Grizzlie Antagonist
Post by claviger
Medium
Hidden in Plain Sight – Bonar Menninger – Medium
Oct 8, 2017 - Did a Secret Service Agent Accidentally Shoot JFK? .... to
one of America's most tortuous questions has been hidden in plain sight
all along.
The possibility that Hickey might have been related to the Kennedy family
is fascinating.
I continue to stay in touch with Bonar Menninger on an on-and-off basis,
and I understand that he is embarking on a project to have an independent
expert review the Bronson film.
It's an exciting prospect that still strikes me as somewhat hit-and-miss
-- the film was taken from a great distance away and may only disclose so
much.
By comparison, it would seem easier for a genealogist to research the
Kennedy and Hickey families to see if there is a connection. I would
assume that there are still some undisturbed records from the late
19th/early 20th centuries available to be retrieved.
Tempus Omnia Revelat!
Gary Mack would never release the Bronson film to anyone, CT or LN.
It is the only 8mm film taken that day in Dealey Plaza to not be made
available to any outside researchers or film experts in 55 years. From
what I hear Curator Stephen Fagin is considering a change in policy to
allow a national expert to be the first technical observer to inspect the
aging 8mm film, and to assess the condition for any damaged frames,
then to supervise modern procedures to copy this film for researchers
to study in detail. Hopefully that can happen sooner than later.
I like Fagin, he takes a very professional approach to his job as Curator.
He has done an excellent job on the SFMDP witness interview series. I
hope he continues that program. Some witness from Dealey Plaza have
never been interviewed until now.
https://www.jfk.org/sixth-floor-museum-receives-donation-bronson-collection-containing-eyewitness-film-photos-kennedy-assassination/
And Gary Mack died in 2015.
So how did Mack have control over the film?
In 2013 for obvious reasons many researchers became interested
in the Bronson Film, because it has never been made available to
the General Public. At that time the Bronson family still owned the
film, but it was in safekeeping at the SFMDP and Gary Mack was
the gatekeeper.
I am not sure how many requests were turned down. I do know
of two people who were willing to pay a $1,000 fee to the family.
A well known CT with technical expertise offered to pay the high
Fee and tried 3 times for access, but Mack would not approve it.
The other person was a LN who actually had written permission
from the family, but Mack still refused to allow access or even a
modern copy.
So, at this point, the family still had control but was safe-keeping the
film at the Museum? If so are you saying 1)the family did not know of the
CT's offer of payment?; and 2)the family was aware of the LN request and
did not make Mack allow access, or take the film back and allow access
themselves?
Post by claviger
How he got away with that amazes me, but it did cost the Bronson
family a lot of income from willing researchers. I believe the family
finally gave up, then donated the film to the SFMDP because they
were not receiving much income anyhow
But they donated the film to Mack's place of employment even though they
were unhappy that Mack had cost them money?

Mark
claviger
2019-04-24 04:25:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
It is my understand a production company has approached the
SFMDP to do a very interesting special on the history of the
mysterious Bronson Film and why it is the only 8mm film
to evade academic technical scrutiny after 55 years.

Let's see how that works out and maybe all questions will be
answered. If this project is not granted full cooperation by
the SFMDP then we will have good reason to revisit this
academic discussion.
Anthony Marsh
2019-04-25 18:21:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by claviger
It is my understand a production company has approached the
SFMDP to do a very interesting special on the history of the
mysterious Bronson Film and why it is the only 8mm film
to evade academic technical scrutiny after 55 years.
Let's see how that works out and maybe all questions will be
answered. If this project is not granted full cooperation by
the SFMDP then we will have good reason to revisit this
academic discussion.
I doubt it. The Bronson film is not going to save your crazy theory.
r***@gmail.com
2019-04-19 14:50:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by claviger
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by claviger
Post by Grizzlie Antagonist
Post by claviger
Medium
Hidden in Plain Sight – Bonar Menninger – Medium
Oct 8, 2017 - Did a Secret Service Agent Accidentally Shoot JFK? .... to
one of America's most tortuous questions has been hidden in plain sight
all along.
The possibility that Hickey might have been related to the Kennedy family
is fascinating.
I continue to stay in touch with Bonar Menninger on an on-and-off basis,
and I understand that he is embarking on a project to have an independent
expert review the Bronson film.
It's an exciting prospect that still strikes me as somewhat hit-and-miss
-- the film was taken from a great distance away and may only disclose so
much.
By comparison, it would seem easier for a genealogist to research the
Kennedy and Hickey families to see if there is a connection. I would
assume that there are still some undisturbed records from the late
19th/early 20th centuries available to be retrieved.
Tempus Omnia Revelat!
Gary Mack would never release the Bronson film to anyone, CT or LN.
It is the only 8mm film taken that day in Dealey Plaza to not be made
available to any outside researchers or film experts in 55 years. From
what I hear Curator Stephen Fagin is considering a change in policy to
allow a national expert to be the first technical observer to inspect the
aging 8mm film, and to assess the condition for any damaged frames,
then to supervise modern procedures to copy this film for researchers
to study in detail. Hopefully that can happen sooner than later.
I like Fagin, he takes a very professional approach to his job as Curator.
He has done an excellent job on the SFMDP witness interview series. I
hope he continues that program. Some witness from Dealey Plaza have
never been interviewed until now.
https://www.jfk.org/sixth-floor-museum-receives-donation-bronson-collection-containing-eyewitness-film-photos-kennedy-assassination/
And Gary Mack died in 2015.
So how did Mack have control over the film?
In 2013 for obvious reasons many researchers became interested
in the Bronson Film, because it has never been made available to
the General Public. At that time the Bronson family still owned the
film, but it was in safekeeping at the SFMDP and Gary Mack was
the gatekeeper.
I am not sure how many requests were turned down. I do know
of two people who were willing to pay a $1,000 fee to the family.
A well known CT with technical expertise offered to pay the high
Fee and tried 3 times for access, but Mack would not approve it.
The other person was a LN who actually had written permission
from the family, but Mack still refused to allow access or even a
modern copy.
So, a couple of undisclosed people wanted the film so
they could do undisclosed things with it, and Mack
denied them for undisclosed reasons. Which doesn't
tell us anything. Offhand, I'm unaware of any "well
known CT" with a demonstrated "technical expertise"
in film.
Post by claviger
How he got away with that amazes me, but it did cost the Bronson
family a lot of income from willing researchers. I believe the family
finally gave up, then donated the film to the SFMDP because they
were not receiving much income anyhow.
Did it cost the *family* income, or did someone get
one member on-board only to have the others veto
the idea? Or did someone just think that the family
saw it his way, because he only heard what he wanted
to hear.

I have this feeling that Mack "got away with it"
because the family allowed him to. They owned the
film; they could have removed it from the SFM any
time they wanted to to do any thing they wanted
to for any reason they chose.
Post by claviger
The new Curator Stephen Fagin is apparently trying to correct this
lack of cooperation in the past, and recently allowed Robin Unger
to display 24 frames of Bronson film on his outstanding Website.
"Apparently." That is, you don't really know what
happened or why.
Post by claviger
A recent study by a couple of researchers using high magnification
enhancement on an Apple laptop computer noticed a black stick in
the backseat of the SSA follow-up car. What that curious object is
has generated new interest in the Bronson film. The reason why a
professional examination by an 8mm expert is an absolute must, to
carefully examine the condition of this aging film, and to produce a
quality high-tech copy for any and all researchers of this case from
Around the World to study closely for any clues, like you and me.
More unknown people doing some undisclosed thing for
undisclosed reasons. You are the most indeterminate
poster I can think of.
Anthony Marsh
2019-04-16 16:12:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by claviger
Post by Grizzlie Antagonist
Post by claviger
Medium
Hidden in Plain Sight – Bonar Menninger – Medium
Oct 8, 2017 - Did a Secret Service Agent Accidentally Shoot JFK? .... to
one of America's most tortuous questions has been hidden in plain sight
all along.
The possibility that Hickey might have been related to the Kennedy family
is fascinating.
I continue to stay in touch with Bonar Menninger on an on-and-off basis,
and I understand that he is embarking on a project to have an independent
expert review the Bronson film.
It's an exciting prospect that still strikes me as somewhat hit-and-miss
-- the film was taken from a great distance away and may only disclose so
much.
By comparison, it would seem easier for a genealogist to research the
Kennedy and Hickey families to see if there is a connection. I would
assume that there are still some undisturbed records from the late
19th/early 20th centuries available to be retrieved.
Tempus Omnia Revelat!
Gary Mack would never release the Bronson film to anyone, CT or LN.
It is the only 8mm film taken that day in Dealey Plaza to not be made
available to any outside researchers or film experts in 55 years. From
what I hear Curator Stephen Fagin is considering a change in policy to
allow a national expert to be the first technical observer to inspect the
aging 8mm film, and to assess the condition for any damaged frames,
then to supervise modern procedures to copy this film for researchers
to study in detail. Hopefully that can happen sooner than later.
I like Fagin, he takes a very professional approach to his job as Curator.
He has done an excellent job on the SFMDP witness interview series. I
hope he continues that program. Some witness from Dealey Plaza have
never been interviewed until now.
https://www.jfk.org/sixth-floor-museum-receives-donation-bronson-collection-containing-eyewitness-film-photos-kennedy-assassination/
And Gary Mack died in 2015.
So how did Mack have control over the film?
Donated to the Sixth Floor Museum.
r***@gmail.com
2019-04-30 00:50:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by claviger
Post by Grizzlie Antagonist
Post by claviger
Medium
Hidden in Plain Sight – Bonar Menninger – Medium
Oct 8, 2017 - Did a Secret Service Agent Accidentally Shoot JFK? .... to
one of America's most tortuous questions has been hidden in plain sight
all along.
The possibility that Hickey might have been related to the Kennedy family
is fascinating.
I continue to stay in touch with Bonar Menninger on an on-and-off basis,
and I understand that he is embarking on a project to have an independent
expert review the Bronson film.
It's an exciting prospect that still strikes me as somewhat hit-and-miss
-- the film was taken from a great distance away and may only disclose so
much.
By comparison, it would seem easier for a genealogist to research the
Kennedy and Hickey families to see if there is a connection. I would
assume that there are still some undisturbed records from the late
19th/early 20th centuries available to be retrieved.
Tempus Omnia Revelat!
Gary Mack would never release the Bronson film to anyone, CT or LN.
It is the only 8mm film taken that day in Dealey Plaza to not be made
available to any outside researchers or film experts in 55 years. From
what I hear Curator Stephen Fagin is considering a change in policy to
allow a national expert to be the first technical observer to inspect the
aging 8mm film, and to assess the condition for any damaged frames,
then to supervise modern procedures to copy this film for researchers
to study in detail. Hopefully that can happen sooner than later.
I like Fagin, he takes a very professional approach to his job as Curator.
He has done an excellent job on the SFMDP witness interview series. I
hope he continues that program. Some witness from Dealey Plaza have
never been interviewed until now.
https://www.jfk.org/sixth-floor-museum-receives-donation-bronson-collection-containing-eyewitness-film-photos-kennedy-assassination/
And Gary Mack died in 2015.
So how did Mack have control over the film?
Donated to the Sixth Floor Museum.
It wasn't *donated* to the SFM until after Mack had died.
claviger
2019-04-30 20:36:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by claviger
Post by Grizzlie Antagonist
Post by claviger
Medium
Hidden in Plain Sight – Bonar Menninger – Medium
Oct 8, 2017 - Did a Secret Service Agent Accidentally Shoot JFK? .... to
one of America's most tortuous questions has been hidden in plain sight
all along.
The possibility that Hickey might have been related to the Kennedy family
is fascinating.
I continue to stay in touch with Bonar Menninger on an on-and-off basis,
and I understand that he is embarking on a project to have an independent
expert review the Bronson film.
It's an exciting prospect that still strikes me as somewhat hit-and-miss
-- the film was taken from a great distance away and may only disclose so
much.
By comparison, it would seem easier for a genealogist to research the
Kennedy and Hickey families to see if there is a connection. I would
assume that there are still some undisturbed records from the late
19th/early 20th centuries available to be retrieved.
Tempus Omnia Revelat!
Gary Mack would never release the Bronson film to anyone, CT or LN.
It is the only 8mm film taken that day in Dealey Plaza to not be made
available to any outside researchers or film experts in 55 years. From
what I hear Curator Stephen Fagin is considering a change in policy to
allow a national expert to be the first technical observer to inspect the
aging 8mm film, and to assess the condition for any damaged frames,
then to supervise modern procedures to copy this film for researchers
to study in detail. Hopefully that can happen sooner than later.
I like Fagin, he takes a very professional approach to his job as Curator.
He has done an excellent job on the SFMDP witness interview series. I
hope he continues that program. Some witness from Dealey Plaza have
never been interviewed until now.
https://www.jfk.org/sixth-floor-museum-receives-donation-bronson-collection-containing-eyewitness-film-photos-kennedy-assassination/
And Gary Mack died in 2015.
So how did Mack have control over the film?
Donated to the Sixth Floor Museum.
It wasn't *donated* to the SFM until after Mack had died.
If true Mack cost the Bronson family a lot of money.
Anthony Marsh
2019-05-02 18:20:57 UTC
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Post by claviger
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by claviger
Post by Grizzlie Antagonist
Post by claviger
Medium
Hidden in Plain Sight – Bonar Menninger – Medium
Oct 8, 2017 - Did a Secret Service Agent Accidentally Shoot JFK? .... to
one of America's most tortuous questions has been hidden in plain sight
all along.
The possibility that Hickey might have been related to the Kennedy family
is fascinating.
I continue to stay in touch with Bonar Menninger on an on-and-off basis,
and I understand that he is embarking on a project to have an independent
expert review the Bronson film.
It's an exciting prospect that still strikes me as somewhat hit-and-miss
-- the film was taken from a great distance away and may only disclose so
much.
By comparison, it would seem easier for a genealogist to research the
Kennedy and Hickey families to see if there is a connection. I would
assume that there are still some undisturbed records from the late
19th/early 20th centuries available to be retrieved.
Tempus Omnia Revelat!
Gary Mack would never release the Bronson film to anyone, CT or LN.
It is the only 8mm film taken that day in Dealey Plaza to not be made
available to any outside researchers or film experts in 55 years. From
what I hear Curator Stephen Fagin is considering a change in policy to
allow a national expert to be the first technical observer to inspect the
aging 8mm film, and to assess the condition for any damaged frames,
then to supervise modern procedures to copy this film for researchers
to study in detail. Hopefully that can happen sooner than later.
I like Fagin, he takes a very professional approach to his job as Curator.
He has done an excellent job on the SFMDP witness interview series. I
hope he continues that program. Some witness from Dealey Plaza have
never been interviewed until now.
https://www.jfk.org/sixth-floor-museum-receives-donation-bronson-collection-containing-eyewitness-film-photos-kennedy-assassination/
And Gary Mack died in 2015.
So how did Mack have control over the film?
Donated to the Sixth Floor Museum.
It wasn't *donated* to the SFM until after Mack had died.
If true Mack cost the Bronson family a lot of money.
Maybe. Do you have a list of which films people made a lot of money from?
donald willis
2019-05-03 16:20:52 UTC
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Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by claviger
Post by Grizzlie Antagonist
Post by claviger
Medium
Hidden in Plain Sight – Bonar Menninger – Medium
Oct 8, 2017 - Did a Secret Service Agent Accidentally Shoot JFK? .... to
one of America's most tortuous questions has been hidden in plain sight
all along.
The possibility that Hickey might have been related to the Kennedy family
is fascinating.
I continue to stay in touch with Bonar Menninger on an on-and-off basis,
and I understand that he is embarking on a project to have an independent
expert review the Bronson film.
It's an exciting prospect that still strikes me as somewhat hit-and-miss
-- the film was taken from a great distance away and may only disclose so
much.
By comparison, it would seem easier for a genealogist to research the
Kennedy and Hickey families to see if there is a connection. I would
assume that there are still some undisturbed records from the late
19th/early 20th centuries available to be retrieved.
Tempus Omnia Revelat!
Gary Mack would never release the Bronson film to anyone, CT or LN.
It is the only 8mm film taken that day in Dealey Plaza to not be made
available to any outside researchers or film experts in 55 years. From
what I hear Curator Stephen Fagin is considering a change in policy to
allow a national expert to be the first technical observer to inspect the
aging 8mm film, and to assess the condition for any damaged frames,
then to supervise modern procedures to copy this film for researchers
to study in detail. Hopefully that can happen sooner than later.
I like Fagin, he takes a very professional approach to his job as Curator.
He has done an excellent job on the SFMDP witness interview series. I
hope he continues that program. Some witness from Dealey Plaza have
never been interviewed until now.
https://www.jfk.org/sixth-floor-museum-receives-donation-bronson-collection-containing-eyewitness-film-photos-kennedy-assassination/
And Gary Mack died in 2015.
So how did Mack have control over the film?
Donated to the Sixth Floor Museum.
It wasn't *donated* to the SFM until after Mack had died.
If true Mack cost the Bronson family a lot of money.
Maybe. Do you have a list of which films people made a lot of money from?
Gone with the Wind, The Godfather, Ben-Hur, Star Wars...
r***@gmail.com
2019-05-03 17:06:45 UTC
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Post by claviger
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by claviger
Post by Grizzlie Antagonist
Post by claviger
Medium
Hidden in Plain Sight – Bonar Menninger – Medium
Oct 8, 2017 - Did a Secret Service Agent Accidentally Shoot JFK? .... to
one of America's most tortuous questions has been hidden in plain sight
all along.
The possibility that Hickey might have been related to the Kennedy family
is fascinating.
I continue to stay in touch with Bonar Menninger on an on-and-off basis,
and I understand that he is embarking on a project to have an independent
expert review the Bronson film.
It's an exciting prospect that still strikes me as somewhat hit-and-miss
-- the film was taken from a great distance away and may only disclose so
much.
By comparison, it would seem easier for a genealogist to research the
Kennedy and Hickey families to see if there is a connection. I would
assume that there are still some undisturbed records from the late
19th/early 20th centuries available to be retrieved.
Tempus Omnia Revelat!
Gary Mack would never release the Bronson film to anyone, CT or LN.
It is the only 8mm film taken that day in Dealey Plaza to not be made
available to any outside researchers or film experts in 55 years. From
what I hear Curator Stephen Fagin is considering a change in policy to
allow a national expert to be the first technical observer to inspect the
aging 8mm film, and to assess the condition for any damaged frames,
then to supervise modern procedures to copy this film for researchers
to study in detail. Hopefully that can happen sooner than later.
I like Fagin, he takes a very professional approach to his job as Curator.
He has done an excellent job on the SFMDP witness interview series. I
hope he continues that program. Some witness from Dealey Plaza have
never been interviewed until now.
https://www.jfk.org/sixth-floor-museum-receives-donation-bronson-collection-containing-eyewitness-film-photos-kennedy-assassination/
And Gary Mack died in 2015.
So how did Mack have control over the film?
Donated to the Sixth Floor Museum.
It wasn't *donated* to the SFM until after Mack had died.
If true Mack cost the Bronson family a lot of money.
The family owned the film at the time. If they wanted
to license it out to whomever the wanted, Mack couldn't
stop them from doing so. Therefore, the family must not
have wanted to do that. I have this feeling that the
story you have isn't the full story.

Grizzlie Antagonist
2019-04-19 06:11:28 UTC
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Post by claviger
Post by Grizzlie Antagonist
Post by claviger
Medium
Hidden in Plain Sight – Bonar Menninger – Medium
Oct 8, 2017 - Did a Secret Service Agent Accidentally Shoot JFK? .... to
one of America's most tortuous questions has been hidden in plain sight
all along.
The possibility that Hickey might have been related to the Kennedy family
is fascinating.
I continue to stay in touch with Bonar Menninger on an on-and-off basis,
and I understand that he is embarking on a project to have an independent
expert review the Bronson film.
It's an exciting prospect that still strikes me as somewhat hit-and-miss
-- the film was taken from a great distance away and may only disclose so
much.
By comparison, it would seem easier for a genealogist to research the
Kennedy and Hickey families to see if there is a connection. I would
assume that there are still some undisturbed records from the late
19th/early 20th centuries available to be retrieved.
Tempus Omnia Revelat!
Gary Mack would never release the Bronson film to anyone, CT or LN.
It is the only 8mm film taken that day in Dealey Plaza to not be made
available to any outside researchers or film experts in 55 years. From
what I hear Curator Stephen Fagin is considering a change in policy to
allow a national expert to be the first technical observer to inspect the
aging 8mm film, and to assess the condition for any damaged frames,
then to supervise modern procedures to copy this film for researchers
to study in detail. Hopefully that can happen sooner than later.
I like Fagin, he takes a very professional approach to his job as Curator.
He has done an excellent job on the SFMDP witness interview series. I
hope he continues that program. Some witness from Dealey Plaza have
never been interviewed until now.
If you don't mind having to do with Fagin, it's a fine life.
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