Discussion:
What time did JFK arrive at Parkland?
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GKnoll
2019-04-18 01:50:54 UTC
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What time did JFK arrive at Parkland? And please provide a source.

Thanks in advance

This article says it was 12:38
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2011/08/we-were-not-found-wanting.html
r***@gmail.com
2019-04-19 06:18:27 UTC
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Post by GKnoll
What time did JFK arrive at Parkland? And please provide a source.
Thanks in advance
This article says it was 12:38
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2011/08/we-were-not-found-wanting.html
I've been looking for something that gives a definite time. It is not at
all clear from the DPD radio traffic. What is it, 3.4 miles from Dealey
Plaza to Parkland? If 12:38 is correct, that's about 7 minutes from the
shooting to the hospital. About 30 mph average, right? Zoom! Zoom! Zoom!
Look at the David Miller photo. That's on the Stemmons Freeway, and to
judge by the photo, they are just crawling along. The flags are blowing
back, but the wind was, too. What shutter speed was Miller using. The car
is not speeding down the highway as Clint Hill does his work.
Robert Reynolds
2019-04-25 19:12:01 UTC
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Permalink
Parkland has a page on the role it played in the the JFK assassination at
https://www.parklandhospital.com/kennedy-connection


Documents include the letter you found
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Kennedy/Hospital-Highlights-12-9-63.pdf)
and a longer article from a special edition of Hospital Highlights
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Kennedy/1894-into-the-Future-Chapter-five.pdf)

The second reference clarifies that JFK was logged into Parkland at 12:38,
so this is not necessarily the very instant JFK arrived at Parkland.

VB also cites Kellerman's testimony at 2 H 80. Kellerman called Gerald
Behn after leaving trauma room one. They both marked down the time, with
Kellerman marking 12:38 and Behn 12:41. Regardless of which was correct,
according to Kellerman's testimony this phone call was three to five
minutes after they arrived at Parkland.
slats
2019-04-26 00:54:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert Reynolds
Parkland has a page on the role it played in the the JFK assassination
at https://www.parklandhospital.com/kennedy-connection
Documents include the letter you found
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Kennedy
/Hospital-Highlights-12-9-63.pdf) and a longer article from a special
edition of Hospital Highlights
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Kennedy
/1894-into-the-Future-Chapter-five.pdf)
The second reference clarifies that JFK was logged into Parkland at
12:38, so this is not necessarily the very instant JFK arrived at
Parkland.
VB also cites Kellerman's testimony at 2 H 80. Kellerman called Gerald
Behn after leaving trauma room one. They both marked down the time,
with Kellerman marking 12:38 and Behn 12:41. Regardless of which was
correct, according to Kellerman's testimony this phone call was three
to five minutes after they arrived at Parkland.
I doubt Kellerman or anyone else took the time to look at their watch once
the limo stopped at Parkland. They had bigger things to worry about. The
better question is why two gurneys weren't waiting for the victims. After
all, they DID call ahead.
r***@gmail.com
2019-04-26 17:08:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by slats
Post by Robert Reynolds
Parkland has a page on the role it played in the the JFK assassination
at https://www.parklandhospital.com/kennedy-connection
Documents include the letter you found
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Kennedy
/Hospital-Highlights-12-9-63.pdf) and a longer article from a special
edition of Hospital Highlights
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Kennedy
/1894-into-the-Future-Chapter-five.pdf)
The second reference clarifies that JFK was logged into Parkland at
12:38, so this is not necessarily the very instant JFK arrived at
Parkland.
VB also cites Kellerman's testimony at 2 H 80. Kellerman called Gerald
Behn after leaving trauma room one. They both marked down the time,
with Kellerman marking 12:38 and Behn 12:41. Regardless of which was
correct, according to Kellerman's testimony this phone call was three
to five minutes after they arrived at Parkland.
I doubt Kellerman or anyone else took the time to look at their watch once
the limo stopped at Parkland. They had bigger things to worry about. The
better question is why two gurneys weren't waiting for the victims. After
all, they DID call ahead.
The DPD radio dispatcher was immediately told by Chief Curry to notify
Parkland, probably at about 12:31. But, as I recall, one of the doctors at
the hospital got the word that the president was being brought in, and JFK
was already in by the time he got to the trauma room. Perhaps Parkland was
not notified in a timely fashion.
Mark
2019-04-27 01:25:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
Post by Robert Reynolds
Parkland has a page on the role it played in the the JFK assassination
at https://www.parklandhospital.com/kennedy-connection
Documents include the letter you found
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Kennedy
/Hospital-Highlights-12-9-63.pdf) and a longer article from a special
edition of Hospital Highlights
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Kennedy
/1894-into-the-Future-Chapter-five.pdf)
The second reference clarifies that JFK was logged into Parkland at
12:38, so this is not necessarily the very instant JFK arrived at
Parkland.
VB also cites Kellerman's testimony at 2 H 80. Kellerman called Gerald
Behn after leaving trauma room one. They both marked down the time,
with Kellerman marking 12:38 and Behn 12:41. Regardless of which was
correct, according to Kellerman's testimony this phone call was three
to five minutes after they arrived at Parkland.
I doubt Kellerman or anyone else took the time to look at their watch once
the limo stopped at Parkland. They had bigger things to worry about. The
better question is why two gurneys weren't waiting for the victims. After
all, they DID call ahead.
The DPD radio dispatcher was immediately told by Chief Curry to notify
Parkland, probably at about 12:31. But, as I recall, one of the doctors at
the hospital got the word that the president was being brought in, and JFK
was already in by the time he got to the trauma room. Perhaps Parkland was
not notified in a timely fashion.
Or Parkland was and the personnel involved didn't communicate with each
other. Slats are you saying DPD Dispatch didn't call Parkland because they
were involved in a conspiracy? Or Parkland employees got the call but
didn't have a stretcher outside in order to prevent the president from
getting the quickest trauma room care because they were involved in a
conspiracy? Mark
slats
2019-04-27 21:50:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mark
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
Post by Robert Reynolds
Parkland has a page on the role it played in the the JFK
assassinatio
n
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
Post by Robert Reynolds
at https://www.parklandhospital.com/kennedy-connection
Documents include the letter you found
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Ke
nne
dy
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
Post by Robert Reynolds
/Hospital-Highlights-12-9-63.pdf) and a longer article from a
special edition of Hospital Highlights
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Ke
nne
dy
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
Post by Robert Reynolds
/1894-into-the-Future-Chapter-five.pdf)
The second reference clarifies that JFK was logged into Parkland
at 12:38, so this is not necessarily the very instant JFK arrived
at Parkland.
VB also cites Kellerman's testimony at 2 H 80. Kellerman called
Geral
d
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
Post by Robert Reynolds
Behn after leaving trauma room one. They both marked down the
time, with Kellerman marking 12:38 and Behn 12:41. Regardless of
which was correct, according to Kellerman's testimony this phone
call was three to five minutes after they arrived at Parkland.
I doubt Kellerman or anyone else took the time to look at their
watch o
nce
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
the limo stopped at Parkland. They had bigger things to worry
about. Th
e
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
better question is why two gurneys weren't waiting for the victims.
Aft
er
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
all, they DID call ahead.
The DPD radio dispatcher was immediately told by Chief Curry to
notify Parkland, probably at about 12:31. But, as I recall, one of
the doctors a
t
Post by r***@gmail.com
the hospital got the word that the president was being brought in,
and JF
K
Post by r***@gmail.com
was already in by the time he got to the trauma room. Perhaps
Parkland wa
s
Post by r***@gmail.com
not notified in a timely fashion.
Or Parkland was and the personnel involved didn't communicate with
each other. Slats are you saying DPD Dispatch didn't call Parkland
because they were involved in a conspiracy? Or Parkland employees got
the call but didn't have a stretcher outside in order to prevent the
president from getting the quickest trauma room care because they were
involved in a conspiracy? Mark
No, I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I'm just wondering why, despite being
alerted, they weren't prepared for the President's arrival.

Mr. KELLERMAN. As we arrived at the hospital I immediately got out of the
car. Our followup car is in back of us, as you will recall. I yelled to
the agents, "Get in"--"Go get us two stretchers on wheels."
Mark
2019-04-28 17:47:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by slats
Post by Mark
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
Post by Robert Reynolds
Parkland has a page on the role it played in the the JFK
assassinatio
n
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
Post by Robert Reynolds
at https://www.parklandhospital.com/kennedy-connection
Documents include the letter you found
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Ke
nne
dy
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
Post by Robert Reynolds
/Hospital-Highlights-12-9-63.pdf) and a longer article from a
special edition of Hospital Highlights
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Ke
nne
dy
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
Post by Robert Reynolds
/1894-into-the-Future-Chapter-five.pdf)
The second reference clarifies that JFK was logged into Parkland
at 12:38, so this is not necessarily the very instant JFK arrived
at Parkland.
VB also cites Kellerman's testimony at 2 H 80. Kellerman called
Geral
d
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
Post by Robert Reynolds
Behn after leaving trauma room one. They both marked down the
time, with Kellerman marking 12:38 and Behn 12:41. Regardless of
which was correct, according to Kellerman's testimony this phone
call was three to five minutes after they arrived at Parkland.
I doubt Kellerman or anyone else took the time to look at their
watch o
nce
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
the limo stopped at Parkland. They had bigger things to worry
about. Th
e
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
better question is why two gurneys weren't waiting for the victims.
Aft
er
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
all, they DID call ahead.
The DPD radio dispatcher was immediately told by Chief Curry to
notify Parkland, probably at about 12:31. But, as I recall, one of
the doctors a
t
Post by r***@gmail.com
the hospital got the word that the president was being brought in,
and JF
K
Post by r***@gmail.com
was already in by the time he got to the trauma room. Perhaps
Parkland wa
s
Post by r***@gmail.com
not notified in a timely fashion.
Or Parkland was and the personnel involved didn't communicate with
each other. Slats are you saying DPD Dispatch didn't call Parkland
because they were involved in a conspiracy? Or Parkland employees got
the call but didn't have a stretcher outside in order to prevent the
president from getting the quickest trauma room care because they were
involved in a conspiracy? Mark
No, I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I'm just wondering why, despite being
alerted, they weren't prepared for the President's arrival.
Okay, and it's a fair question.
Post by slats
Mr. KELLERMAN. As we arrived at the hospital I immediately got out of the
car. Our followup car is in back of us, as you will recall. I yelled to
the agents, "Get in"--"Go get us two stretchers on wheels."
You don't have to convince me that the stretchers weren't there at the
ambulance bay at the ready. I know that. The reasons why, I'm afraid, have
been lost to time. We would need to know which part of Parkland the call
came into, the main switchboard or directly to the ER. And what did the
individual who took the call do with the information.

(We do know the brief delay in getting JFK into the ER did not contribute
to his death, and that the delay with Connally did not cost him his life.)

If anyone has knowledge of a written statement by a Parkland employee, or
testimony to the WC, HSCA or ARRB that sheds light on this, let me know.
Mark
Steve M. Galbraith
2019-04-30 00:34:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mark
Post by slats
Post by Mark
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
Post by Robert Reynolds
Parkland has a page on the role it played in the the JFK
assassinatio
n
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
Post by Robert Reynolds
at https://www.parklandhospital.com/kennedy-connection
Documents include the letter you found
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Ke
nne
dy
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
Post by Robert Reynolds
/Hospital-Highlights-12-9-63.pdf) and a longer article from a
special edition of Hospital Highlights
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Ke
nne
dy
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
Post by Robert Reynolds
/1894-into-the-Future-Chapter-five.pdf)
The second reference clarifies that JFK was logged into Parkland
at 12:38, so this is not necessarily the very instant JFK arrived
at Parkland.
VB also cites Kellerman's testimony at 2 H 80. Kellerman called
Geral
d
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
Post by Robert Reynolds
Behn after leaving trauma room one. They both marked down the
time, with Kellerman marking 12:38 and Behn 12:41. Regardless of
which was correct, according to Kellerman's testimony this phone
call was three to five minutes after they arrived at Parkland.
I doubt Kellerman or anyone else took the time to look at their
watch o
nce
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
the limo stopped at Parkland. They had bigger things to worry
about. Th
e
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
better question is why two gurneys weren't waiting for the victims.
Aft
er
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
all, they DID call ahead.
The DPD radio dispatcher was immediately told by Chief Curry to
notify Parkland, probably at about 12:31. But, as I recall, one of
the doctors a
t
Post by r***@gmail.com
the hospital got the word that the president was being brought in,
and JF
K
Post by r***@gmail.com
was already in by the time he got to the trauma room. Perhaps
Parkland wa
s
Post by r***@gmail.com
not notified in a timely fashion.
Or Parkland was and the personnel involved didn't communicate with
each other. Slats are you saying DPD Dispatch didn't call Parkland
because they were involved in a conspiracy? Or Parkland employees got
the call but didn't have a stretcher outside in order to prevent the
president from getting the quickest trauma room care because they were
involved in a conspiracy? Mark
No, I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I'm just wondering why, despite being
alerted, they weren't prepared for the President's arrival.
Okay, and it's a fair question.
Post by slats
Mr. KELLERMAN. As we arrived at the hospital I immediately got out of the
car. Our followup car is in back of us, as you will recall. I yelled to
the agents, "Get in"--"Go get us two stretchers on wheels."
You don't have to convince me that the stretchers weren't there at the
ambulance bay at the ready. I know that. The reasons why, I'm afraid, have
been lost to time. We would need to know which part of Parkland the call
came into, the main switchboard or directly to the ER. And what did the
individual who took the call do with the information.
(We do know the brief delay in getting JFK into the ER did not contribute
to his death, and that the delay with Connally did not cost him his life.)
If anyone has knowledge of a written statement by a Parkland employee, or
testimony to the WC, HSCA or ARRB that sheds light on this, let me know.
Mark
Mark: Doris Nelson, the ER supervisor and a nurse at Parkland, says she
was informed about 3-5 minutes prior to JFK's arrival that he was headed
to the hospital. She said she then prepared the ER for his arrival. But
nothing about sending out a stretcher.

Mr. SPECTER - What notification, if any, did 'you receive on that date
concerning injuries to President Kennedy?
Mrs. NELSON - I received a phone call approximately 3 to 5 minutes prior
to their arrival, from the telephone operator, stating that the President
had been shot and was being brought to the emergency room.
Mr. SPECTER - What action after that did you take in preparing for the
President's arrival?
Mrs. NELSON - I immediately took the surgical resident into trauma room
No.1, notified him of the incident, and asked the also told the head nurse
that the President had been shot and was being brought to the emergency
room. Then, I went into trauma room 2, after the head nurse had told me
that trauma room 1 was set up for any emergency, and proceeded to open a
bottle of intravenous fluid and set it up for an emergency situation.

Mr. SPECTER - Did you know at that time that anyone else had been injured?
Mrs. NELSON - No; we were not notified as to anyone else being injured.
Mr. SPECTER - What occurred with respect to the arrival of any injured
party at Parkland Memorial Hospital thereafter?
Mrs. NELSON - As I walked out-of trauma room No. 2 I heard someone calling
for stretchers and an orderly ran back into the area and got a stretcher
and ran out of the door, and a few seconds later Governor Connally, who at
that time I did not. know who it was but recognized him as not being the
President, arrived and I directed them into trauma room 2.

Apparently no one ordered for stretchers to be sent out.
Mark
2019-05-04 03:29:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Mark
Post by slats
Post by Mark
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
Post by Robert Reynolds
Parkland has a page on the role it played in the the JFK
assassinatio
n
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
Post by Robert Reynolds
at https://www.parklandhospital.com/kennedy-connection
Documents include the letter you found
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Ke
nne
dy
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
Post by Robert Reynolds
/Hospital-Highlights-12-9-63.pdf) and a longer article from a
special edition of Hospital Highlights
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Ke
nne
dy
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
Post by Robert Reynolds
/1894-into-the-Future-Chapter-five.pdf)
The second reference clarifies that JFK was logged into Parkland
at 12:38, so this is not necessarily the very instant JFK arrived
at Parkland.
VB also cites Kellerman's testimony at 2 H 80. Kellerman called
Geral
d
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
Post by Robert Reynolds
Behn after leaving trauma room one. They both marked down the
time, with Kellerman marking 12:38 and Behn 12:41. Regardless of
which was correct, according to Kellerman's testimony this phone
call was three to five minutes after they arrived at Parkland.
I doubt Kellerman or anyone else took the time to look at their
watch o
nce
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
the limo stopped at Parkland. They had bigger things to worry
about. Th
e
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
better question is why two gurneys weren't waiting for the victims.
Aft
er
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
all, they DID call ahead.
The DPD radio dispatcher was immediately told by Chief Curry to
notify Parkland, probably at about 12:31. But, as I recall, one of
the doctors a
t
Post by r***@gmail.com
the hospital got the word that the president was being brought in,
and JF
K
Post by r***@gmail.com
was already in by the time he got to the trauma room. Perhaps
Parkland wa
s
Post by r***@gmail.com
not notified in a timely fashion.
Or Parkland was and the personnel involved didn't communicate with
each other. Slats are you saying DPD Dispatch didn't call Parkland
because they were involved in a conspiracy? Or Parkland employees got
the call but didn't have a stretcher outside in order to prevent the
president from getting the quickest trauma room care because they were
involved in a conspiracy? Mark
No, I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I'm just wondering why, despite being
alerted, they weren't prepared for the President's arrival.
Okay, and it's a fair question.
Post by slats
Mr. KELLERMAN. As we arrived at the hospital I immediately got out of the
car. Our followup car is in back of us, as you will recall. I yelled to
the agents, "Get in"--"Go get us two stretchers on wheels."
You don't have to convince me that the stretchers weren't there at the
ambulance bay at the ready. I know that. The reasons why, I'm afraid, have
been lost to time. We would need to know which part of Parkland the call
came into, the main switchboard or directly to the ER. And what did the
individual who took the call do with the information.
(We do know the brief delay in getting JFK into the ER did not contribute
to his death, and that the delay with Connally did not cost him his life.)
If anyone has knowledge of a written statement by a Parkland employee, or
testimony to the WC, HSCA or ARRB that sheds light on this, let me know.
Mark
Mark: Doris Nelson, the ER supervisor and a nurse at Parkland, says she
was informed about 3-5 minutes prior to JFK's arrival that he was headed
to the hospital. She said she then prepared the ER for his arrival. But
nothing about sending out a stretcher.
Mr. SPECTER - What notification, if any, did 'you receive on that date
concerning injuries to President Kennedy?
Mrs. NELSON - I received a phone call approximately 3 to 5 minutes prior
to their arrival, from the telephone operator, stating that the President
had been shot and was being brought to the emergency room.
Mr. SPECTER - What action after that did you take in preparing for the
President's arrival?
Mrs. NELSON - I immediately took the surgical resident into trauma room
No.1, notified him of the incident, and asked the also told the head nurse
that the President had been shot and was being brought to the emergency
room. Then, I went into trauma room 2, after the head nurse had told me
that trauma room 1 was set up for any emergency, and proceeded to open a
bottle of intravenous fluid and set it up for an emergency situation.
Mr. SPECTER - Did you know at that time that anyone else had been injured?
Mrs. NELSON - No; we were not notified as to anyone else being injured.
Mr. SPECTER - What occurred with respect to the arrival of any injured
party at Parkland Memorial Hospital thereafter?
Mrs. NELSON - As I walked out-of trauma room No. 2 I heard someone calling
for stretchers and an orderly ran back into the area and got a stretcher
and ran out of the door, and a few seconds later Governor Connally, who at
that time I did not. know who it was but recognized him as not being the
President, arrived and I directed them into trauma room 2.
Apparently no one ordered for stretchers to be sent out.
Thank you, Mark
r***@gmail.com
2019-04-27 22:09:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mark
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
Post by Robert Reynolds
Parkland has a page on the role it played in the the JFK assassination
at https://www.parklandhospital.com/kennedy-connection
Documents include the letter you found
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Kennedy
/Hospital-Highlights-12-9-63.pdf) and a longer article from a special
edition of Hospital Highlights
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Kennedy
/1894-into-the-Future-Chapter-five.pdf)
The second reference clarifies that JFK was logged into Parkland at
12:38, so this is not necessarily the very instant JFK arrived at
Parkland.
VB also cites Kellerman's testimony at 2 H 80. Kellerman called Gerald
Behn after leaving trauma room one. They both marked down the time,
with Kellerman marking 12:38 and Behn 12:41. Regardless of which was
correct, according to Kellerman's testimony this phone call was three
to five minutes after they arrived at Parkland.
I doubt Kellerman or anyone else took the time to look at their watch once
the limo stopped at Parkland. They had bigger things to worry about. The
better question is why two gurneys weren't waiting for the victims. After
all, they DID call ahead.
The DPD radio dispatcher was immediately told by Chief Curry to notify
Parkland, probably at about 12:31. But, as I recall, one of the doctors at
the hospital got the word that the president was being brought in, and JFK
was already in by the time he got to the trauma room. Perhaps Parkland was
not notified in a timely fashion.
Or Parkland was and the personnel involved didn't communicate with each
other. Slats are you saying DPD Dispatch didn't call Parkland because they
were involved in a conspiracy? Or Parkland employees got the call but
didn't have a stretcher outside in order to prevent the president from
getting the quickest trauma room care because they were involved in a
conspiracy? Mark
It's not about quick trauma room care. JFK was dead with the head shot.
It's about how long it took to get JFK to the hospital. But you always
have to question in terms of conspiracy at the slightest mention of
anything, presumably because you are seeking to shut down the discussion
by dismissing it out of hand. Maybe JFK's apparently long ride to Parkland
has nothing to do with a conspiracy. But what's wrong with trying to
understand what happened? We seem to have two specific times. JFK shot at
12:31. JFK admitted at 12:38. Why does a 3-minute ride take 7 minutes?
It's a perfectly reasonable question.
Mark
2019-04-30 01:04:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Mark
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
Post by Robert Reynolds
Parkland has a page on the role it played in the the JFK assassination
at https://www.parklandhospital.com/kennedy-connection
Documents include the letter you found
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Kennedy
/Hospital-Highlights-12-9-63.pdf) and a longer article from a special
edition of Hospital Highlights
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Kennedy
/1894-into-the-Future-Chapter-five.pdf)
The second reference clarifies that JFK was logged into Parkland at
12:38, so this is not necessarily the very instant JFK arrived at
Parkland.
VB also cites Kellerman's testimony at 2 H 80. Kellerman called Gerald
Behn after leaving trauma room one. They both marked down the time,
with Kellerman marking 12:38 and Behn 12:41. Regardless of which was
correct, according to Kellerman's testimony this phone call was three
to five minutes after they arrived at Parkland.
I doubt Kellerman or anyone else took the time to look at their watch once
the limo stopped at Parkland. They had bigger things to worry about. The
better question is why two gurneys weren't waiting for the victims. After
all, they DID call ahead.
The DPD radio dispatcher was immediately told by Chief Curry to notify
Parkland, probably at about 12:31. But, as I recall, one of the doctors at
the hospital got the word that the president was being brought in, and JFK
was already in by the time he got to the trauma room. Perhaps Parkland was
not notified in a timely fashion.
Or Parkland was and the personnel involved didn't communicate with each
other. Slats are you saying DPD Dispatch didn't call Parkland because they
were involved in a conspiracy? Or Parkland employees got the call but
didn't have a stretcher outside in order to prevent the president from
getting the quickest trauma room care because they were involved in a
conspiracy? Mark
It's not about quick trauma room care. JFK was dead with the head shot.
It's about how long it took to get JFK to the hospital.
Yes, he was dead, but probably only his wife and Clint Hill could see
that. (And I'm aware of Hill's thumb-down to the QM. And Steve Ellis told
Larry Sneed that Jim Chaney drove up to him and told him JFK had been shot
in the head and was surely dead.) That's beside the point. We're talking
about the POTUS, and you get him to emergency care as fast as possible no
matter what you know about his wounds. Which is what they did.

But you always
Post by r***@gmail.com
have to question in terms of conspiracy at the slightest mention of
anything, presumably because you are seeking to shut down the discussion
by dismissing it out of hand.
I'm not trying to shut down anything nor can I. I'm trying to get to the
root cause of this exercise. Just about anything you post on here is with
conspiracy as the objective.

Maybe JFK's apparently long ride to Parkland
Post by r***@gmail.com
has nothing to do with a conspiracy. But what's wrong with trying to
understand what happened? We seem to have two specific times. JFK shot at
12:31. JFK admitted at 12:38. Why does a 3-minute ride take 7 minutes?
It's a perfectly reasonable question.
There you are. "Maybe . . . has nothing to do with a conspiracy." MAYBE.

There's nothing wrong with questioning the time, but to what purpose?, is
my question.

Here's more from DPD motorcycle Sgt. Ellis about the ride from Dealey to
Parkland:

"As we approached Harry Hines, it was almost a square turn; there was a
high bank over on the side. All I could see was that big, tall, green bank
and hoping I'd stay stay on the ground going around that. Chaney and I
were side by side with [B.J.] Martin somewhere behind us and the
President's car right on my tail. I was kind of teed off at the agent for
staying so close. Chaney would look back, and I'd look back; we'd speed up
and look back and there he was on our back bumper. I don't care how fast
we went the bumper of the President's car looked like it was right behind
us. He was directly behind us all the way to Parkland! They shouldn't ride
that close on an escort because if we had to take some evasive action or
brake, they'd run over us. We didn't like that too much but it couldn't be
helped under the circumstances."

From Sneed's NO MORE SILENCE, 146-47.

Mark
1***@mail.com
2019-05-01 03:40:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mark
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Mark
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
Post by Robert Reynolds
Parkland has a page on the role it played in the the JFK assassination
at https://www.parklandhospital.com/kennedy-connection
Documents include the letter you found
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Kennedy
/Hospital-Highlights-12-9-63.pdf) and a longer article from a special
edition of Hospital Highlights
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Kennedy
/1894-into-the-Future-Chapter-five.pdf)
The second reference clarifies that JFK was logged into Parkland at
12:38, so this is not necessarily the very instant JFK arrived at
Parkland.
VB also cites Kellerman's testimony at 2 H 80. Kellerman called Gerald
Behn after leaving trauma room one. They both marked down the time,
with Kellerman marking 12:38 and Behn 12:41. Regardless of which was
correct, according to Kellerman's testimony this phone call was three
to five minutes after they arrived at Parkland.
I doubt Kellerman or anyone else took the time to look at their watch once
the limo stopped at Parkland. They had bigger things to worry about. The
better question is why two gurneys weren't waiting for the victims. After
all, they DID call ahead.
The DPD radio dispatcher was immediately told by Chief Curry to notify
Parkland, probably at about 12:31. But, as I recall, one of the doctors at
the hospital got the word that the president was being brought in, and JFK
was already in by the time he got to the trauma room. Perhaps Parkland was
not notified in a timely fashion.
Or Parkland was and the personnel involved didn't communicate with each
other. Slats are you saying DPD Dispatch didn't call Parkland because they
were involved in a conspiracy? Or Parkland employees got the call but
didn't have a stretcher outside in order to prevent the president from
getting the quickest trauma room care because they were involved in a
conspiracy? Mark
It's not about quick trauma room care. JFK was dead with the head shot.
It's about how long it took to get JFK to the hospital.
Yes, he was dead, but probably only his wife and Clint Hill could see
that. (And I'm aware of Hill's thumb-down to the QM. And Steve Ellis told
Larry Sneed that Jim Chaney drove up to him and told him JFK had been shot
in the head and was surely dead.) That's beside the point. We're talking
about the POTUS, and you get him to emergency care as fast as possible no
matter what you know about his wounds. Which is what they did.
But you always
Post by r***@gmail.com
have to question in terms of conspiracy at the slightest mention of
anything, presumably because you are seeking to shut down the discussion
by dismissing it out of hand.
I'm not trying to shut down anything nor can I. I'm trying to get to the
root cause of this exercise. Just about anything you post on here is with
conspiracy as the objective.
Maybe JFK's apparently long ride to Parkland
Post by r***@gmail.com
has nothing to do with a conspiracy. But what's wrong with trying to
understand what happened? We seem to have two specific times. JFK shot at
12:31. JFK admitted at 12:38. Why does a 3-minute ride take 7 minutes?
It's a perfectly reasonable question.
There you are. "Maybe . . . has nothing to do with a conspiracy." MAYBE.
There's nothing wrong with questioning the time, but to what purpose?, is
my question.
Here's more from DPD motorcycle Sgt. Ellis about the ride from Dealey to
"As we approached Harry Hines, it was almost a square turn; there was a
high bank over on the side. All I could see was that big, tall, green bank
and hoping I'd stay stay on the ground going around that. Chaney and I
were side by side with [B.J.] Martin somewhere behind us and the
President's car right on my tail. I was kind of teed off at the agent for
staying so close. Chaney would look back, and I'd look back; we'd speed up
and look back and there he was on our back bumper. I don't care how fast
we went the bumper of the President's car looked like it was right behind
us. He was directly behind us all the way to Parkland! They shouldn't ride
that close on an escort because if we had to take some evasive action or
brake, they'd run over us. We didn't like that too much but it couldn't be
helped under the circumstances."
From Sneed's NO MORE SILENCE, 146-47.
Mark
The problem with jumping to the question of conspiracy, which of course I
do believe is the case, is that you fail to examine the evidence. You seek
to shut down discussion of the evidence by forcing your own bias into the
discussion, your bias that it could not have been a conspiracy. Thus, your
training in "how to think about claims of conspiracy" has prevented you
from considering the evidence. In my case, my bias in favor of there being
a conspiracy has caused me to consider the evidence. Your bias causes you
to dismiss it.

In this particular example, I am suspicious that the ride to Parkland took
longer than it should have in the furtherance of a conspiratorial purpose.
But, it seems to me, before I jump to such a conclusion, I should
determine whether or not the ride did indeed take longer than it should
have.

If the ride took longer than it should have, then it is consistent with my
suspicion, even though that would not necessarily prove the case. If the
ride took just as long as it should have, then that would disprove this
particular suspicion of mine. Therefore, the thing to do is for me to try
to find out how long the ride took.

The best evidence I've seen suggests that it took between 5 and 7 minutes.
I think it should have taken 3 to 4 minutes, a 2 to 3 minute difference. 2
to 3 minutes doesn't sound like much, but it's almost 100% of the expected
ride time, that is, it looks as if the ride took almost twice as long as
it should have.

Also, the Miller photo suggests a very slow highway speed on the Stemmons
Freeway, at a time when you would expect Greer to have the pedal to the
metal.

This does not prove conspiracy. Doris Nelson could be mistaken. But her
testimony as we have it, and the ambiguity in the radio traffic regarding
an arrival time, and the Miller photo showing an apparent slow speed, all
suggest that Greer did not get to the hospital as quickly as he could
have, and that is consistent with my conspiracy suspicions.
Anthony Marsh
2019-05-02 02:48:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by 1***@mail.com
Post by Mark
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Mark
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
Post by Robert Reynolds
Parkland has a page on the role it played in the the JFK assassination
at https://www.parklandhospital.com/kennedy-connection
Documents include the letter you found
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Kennedy
/Hospital-Highlights-12-9-63.pdf) and a longer article from a special
edition of Hospital Highlights
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Kennedy
/1894-into-the-Future-Chapter-five.pdf)
The second reference clarifies that JFK was logged into Parkland at
12:38, so this is not necessarily the very instant JFK arrived at
Parkland.
VB also cites Kellerman's testimony at 2 H 80. Kellerman called Gerald
Behn after leaving trauma room one. They both marked down the time,
with Kellerman marking 12:38 and Behn 12:41. Regardless of which was
correct, according to Kellerman's testimony this phone call was three
to five minutes after they arrived at Parkland.
I doubt Kellerman or anyone else took the time to look at their watch once
the limo stopped at Parkland. They had bigger things to worry about. The
better question is why two gurneys weren't waiting for the victims. After
all, they DID call ahead.
The DPD radio dispatcher was immediately told by Chief Curry to notify
Parkland, probably at about 12:31. But, as I recall, one of the doctors at
the hospital got the word that the president was being brought in, and JFK
was already in by the time he got to the trauma room. Perhaps Parkland was
not notified in a timely fashion.
Or Parkland was and the personnel involved didn't communicate with each
other. Slats are you saying DPD Dispatch didn't call Parkland because they
were involved in a conspiracy? Or Parkland employees got the call but
didn't have a stretcher outside in order to prevent the president from
getting the quickest trauma room care because they were involved in a
conspiracy? Mark
It's not about quick trauma room care. JFK was dead with the head shot.
It's about how long it took to get JFK to the hospital.
Yes, he was dead, but probably only his wife and Clint Hill could see
that. (And I'm aware of Hill's thumb-down to the QM. And Steve Ellis told
Larry Sneed that Jim Chaney drove up to him and told him JFK had been shot
in the head and was surely dead.) That's beside the point. We're talking
about the POTUS, and you get him to emergency care as fast as possible no
matter what you know about his wounds. Which is what they did.
But you always
Post by r***@gmail.com
have to question in terms of conspiracy at the slightest mention of
anything, presumably because you are seeking to shut down the discussion
by dismissing it out of hand.
I'm not trying to shut down anything nor can I. I'm trying to get to the
root cause of this exercise. Just about anything you post on here is with
conspiracy as the objective.
Maybe JFK's apparently long ride to Parkland
Post by r***@gmail.com
has nothing to do with a conspiracy. But what's wrong with trying to
understand what happened? We seem to have two specific times. JFK shot at
12:31. JFK admitted at 12:38. Why does a 3-minute ride take 7 minutes?
It's a perfectly reasonable question.
There you are. "Maybe . . . has nothing to do with a conspiracy." MAYBE.
There's nothing wrong with questioning the time, but to what purpose?, is
my question.
Here's more from DPD motorcycle Sgt. Ellis about the ride from Dealey to
"As we approached Harry Hines, it was almost a square turn; there was a
high bank over on the side. All I could see was that big, tall, green bank
and hoping I'd stay stay on the ground going around that. Chaney and I
were side by side with [B.J.] Martin somewhere behind us and the
President's car right on my tail. I was kind of teed off at the agent for
staying so close. Chaney would look back, and I'd look back; we'd speed up
and look back and there he was on our back bumper. I don't care how fast
we went the bumper of the President's car looked like it was right behind
us. He was directly behind us all the way to Parkland! They shouldn't ride
that close on an escort because if we had to take some evasive action or
brake, they'd run over us. We didn't like that too much but it couldn't be
helped under the circumstances."
From Sneed's NO MORE SILENCE, 146-47.
Mark
The problem with jumping to the question of conspiracy, which of course I
do believe is the case, is that you fail to examine the evidence. You seek
to shut down discussion of the evidence by forcing your own bias into the
discussion, your bias that it could not have been a conspiracy. Thus, your
training in "how to think about claims of conspiracy" has prevented you
from considering the evidence. In my case, my bias in favor of there being
a conspiracy has caused me to consider the evidence. Your bias causes you
to dismiss it.
A lot of people mistake luck or incompetence for conspiracy. We have a
case up here where a woman driving down the road was shot and killed. We
can't jump to the conclusion that it was premeditated murder because maybe
she was not the intended victim and by luck she just got in the way, or
maybe it was a random shooting at anything that moved, or maybe it was a
long miss by a hunter.
Post by 1***@mail.com
In this particular example, I am suspicious that the ride to Parkland took
longer than it should have in the furtherance of a conspiratorial purpose.
But, it seems to me, before I jump to such a conclusion, I should
determine whether or not the ride did indeed take longer than it should
have.
If the ride took longer than it should have, then it is consistent with my
suspicion, even though that would not necessarily prove the case. If the
ride took just as long as it should have, then that would disprove this
particular suspicion of mine. Therefore, the thing to do is for me to try
to find out how long the ride took.
Where do you calculate the "should have"?
Post by 1***@mail.com
The best evidence I've seen suggests that it took between 5 and 7 minutes.
I think it should have taken 3 to 4 minutes, a 2 to 3 minute difference. 2
to 3 minutes doesn't sound like much, but it's almost 100% of the expected
ride time, that is, it looks as if the ride took almost twice as long as
it should have.
Also, the Miller photo suggests a very slow highway speed on the Stemmons
Freeway, at a time when you would expect Greer to have the pedal to the
metal.
This does not prove conspiracy. Doris Nelson could be mistaken. But her
testimony as we have it, and the ambiguity in the radio traffic regarding
an arrival time, and the Miller photo showing an apparent slow speed, all
suggest that Greer did not get to the hospital as quickly as he could
have, and that is consistent with my conspiracy suspicions.
Mark
2019-05-04 03:29:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by 1***@mail.com
Post by Mark
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Mark
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
Post by Robert Reynolds
Parkland has a page on the role it played in the the JFK assassination
at https://www.parklandhospital.com/kennedy-connection
Documents include the letter you found
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Kennedy
/Hospital-Highlights-12-9-63.pdf) and a longer article from a special
edition of Hospital Highlights
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Kennedy
/1894-into-the-Future-Chapter-five.pdf)
The second reference clarifies that JFK was logged into Parkland at
12:38, so this is not necessarily the very instant JFK arrived at
Parkland.
VB also cites Kellerman's testimony at 2 H 80. Kellerman called Gerald
Behn after leaving trauma room one. They both marked down the time,
with Kellerman marking 12:38 and Behn 12:41. Regardless of which was
correct, according to Kellerman's testimony this phone call was three
to five minutes after they arrived at Parkland.
I doubt Kellerman or anyone else took the time to look at their watch once
the limo stopped at Parkland. They had bigger things to worry about. The
better question is why two gurneys weren't waiting for the victims. After
all, they DID call ahead.
The DPD radio dispatcher was immediately told by Chief Curry to notify
Parkland, probably at about 12:31. But, as I recall, one of the doctors at
the hospital got the word that the president was being brought in, and JFK
was already in by the time he got to the trauma room. Perhaps Parkland was
not notified in a timely fashion.
Or Parkland was and the personnel involved didn't communicate with each
other. Slats are you saying DPD Dispatch didn't call Parkland because they
were involved in a conspiracy? Or Parkland employees got the call but
didn't have a stretcher outside in order to prevent the president from
getting the quickest trauma room care because they were involved in a
conspiracy? Mark
It's not about quick trauma room care. JFK was dead with the head shot.
It's about how long it took to get JFK to the hospital.
Yes, he was dead, but probably only his wife and Clint Hill could see
that. (And I'm aware of Hill's thumb-down to the QM. And Steve Ellis told
Larry Sneed that Jim Chaney drove up to him and told him JFK had been shot
in the head and was surely dead.) That's beside the point. We're talking
about the POTUS, and you get him to emergency care as fast as possible no
matter what you know about his wounds. Which is what they did.
But you always
Post by r***@gmail.com
have to question in terms of conspiracy at the slightest mention of
anything, presumably because you are seeking to shut down the discussion
by dismissing it out of hand.
I'm not trying to shut down anything nor can I. I'm trying to get to the
root cause of this exercise. Just about anything you post on here is with
conspiracy as the objective.
Maybe JFK's apparently long ride to Parkland
Post by r***@gmail.com
has nothing to do with a conspiracy. But what's wrong with trying to
understand what happened? We seem to have two specific times. JFK shot at
12:31. JFK admitted at 12:38. Why does a 3-minute ride take 7 minutes?
It's a perfectly reasonable question.
There you are. "Maybe . . . has nothing to do with a conspiracy." MAYBE.
There's nothing wrong with questioning the time, but to what purpose?, is
my question.
Here's more from DPD motorcycle Sgt. Ellis about the ride from Dealey to
"As we approached Harry Hines, it was almost a square turn; there was a
high bank over on the side. All I could see was that big, tall, green bank
and hoping I'd stay stay on the ground going around that. Chaney and I
were side by side with [B.J.] Martin somewhere behind us and the
President's car right on my tail. I was kind of teed off at the agent for
staying so close. Chaney would look back, and I'd look back; we'd speed up
and look back and there he was on our back bumper. I don't care how fast
we went the bumper of the President's car looked like it was right behind
us. He was directly behind us all the way to Parkland! They shouldn't ride
that close on an escort because if we had to take some evasive action or
brake, they'd run over us. We didn't like that too much but it couldn't be
helped under the circumstances."
From Sneed's NO MORE SILENCE, 146-47.
Mark
The problem with jumping to the question of conspiracy, which of course I
do believe is the case, is that you fail to examine the evidence. You seek
to shut down discussion of the evidence by forcing your own bias into the
discussion, your bias that it could not have been a conspiracy. Thus, your
training in "how to think about claims of conspiracy" has prevented you
from considering the evidence. In my case, my bias in favor of there being
a conspiracy has caused me to consider the evidence. Your bias causes you
to dismiss it.
Actually I came into this case believing in conspiracy. Over the years,
after a lot of studying of both sides, I had to come to the conclusion
that there is no evidence of conspiracy. (But perhaps I'm wrong, since YOU
have "considered" the evidence and I apparently have not.)

No, I'm not trying to shut down your chase after your own wishful
thinking. I am saying its silly because the evidence shows the opposite.
Of all the CTs I've encountered over the years, your are the first to
include the race to Parkland in his conspiracy. But you go right ahead.
Dig deep and hard.
Post by 1***@mail.com
In this particular example, I am suspicious that the ride to Parkland took
longer than it should have in the furtherance of a conspiratorial purpose.
But, it seems to me, before I jump to such a conclusion, I should
determine whether or not the ride did indeed take longer than it should
have.
If the ride took longer than it should have, then it is consistent with my
suspicion, even though that would not necessarily prove the case. If the
ride took just as long as it should have, then that would disprove this
particular suspicion of mine. Therefore, the thing to do is for me to try
to find out how long the ride took.
The best evidence I've seen suggests that it took between 5 and 7 minutes.
I think it should have taken 3 to 4 minutes, a 2 to 3 minute difference. 2
to 3 minutes doesn't sound like much, but it's almost 100% of the expected
ride time, that is, it looks as if the ride took almost twice as long as
it should have.
Also, the Miller photo suggests a very slow highway speed on the Stemmons
Freeway, at a time when you would expect Greer to have the pedal to the
metal.
Suggests. Are you a professional at interpreting what photographs show? If
so advise us of your credentials. And do you know at what point during the
trip on Stemmons the photo was taken?

You ignore what Ellis told Sneed. Was it Greer who was trying to lengthen
the time it took to get JFK to Parkland? Or Ellis and Chaney? Or all
three?

Did the Washington-based Secret Service agents--who had become fond of
JFK, his wife and his children--conspire with the "right-wing Dallas cops"
to destroy the Kennedy presidency? There's a little real life humanity for
you versus your conspiracy robots.

Do you believe that just about every member of the DPD escort was involved
in the murder or the cover-up?

And not one of them had his guilty conscience get the best of him, and
tattletaled on the others? For 55 years? Not one whistleblower?
Post by 1***@mail.com
This does not prove conspiracy. Doris Nelson could be mistaken. But her
testimony as we have it, and the ambiguity in the radio traffic regarding
an arrival time, and the Miller photo showing an apparent slow speed, all
suggest that Greer did not get to the hospital as quickly as he could
have, and that is consistent with my conspiracy suspicions.
You're correct about that. None of those items prove conspiracy to delay
the arrival at Parkland.

From FIVE DAYS IN NOVEMBER by Clint Hill with Lisa McCubbin, here is what
Hill has to say about the race to Parkland:

"Nothing else is said as we speed down Stemmons Freeway at about eighty
miles an hour. I turn my head and my sunglasses blow off."

******

"We turn off the expressway, the car still going very fast. I shift my
body weight to make sure I don't fall off, leaning into the turn, hands
and arms on one side of the car, feet and legs on the other. It is a
balancing act.

"Time has stopped. It feels like an eternity before we arrive at the
hospital. In reality, it has been just four minutes since the shots rang
out in Dealey Plaza." (Quotes from pages 108-109.)

Is Hill part of your conspiracy? Is he lying to cover-up what you are
alleging about the pace to Parkland?

Here's Bugliosi from page 51 of RH:

"The motorcade fast approaches Harry Hines Boulevard, where they'll have
to navigate a forty-five-degree left turn toward Parkland Hospital. Just
before Harry Hines, the road rises sharply to cross a railroad grade. The
motorcycle escorts are familiar with the turn, but limousine driver Bill
Greer is not, and he pushes the president's car faster, moving dangerously
close to the motor jockeys. With the limousine's front grill barking at
their heels, the police escorts hit the rise wide open, go airborne, and
nearly lose control as they slam to earth in the middle of the boulevard,
thirty feet away. On contact, the Harley-Davidson motorcycles bank hard
into the left turn, sparks kicking up from their footstands dragging
across the pavement. The president's car is right behind them, hitting the
rise with a WHUMP!, then into the turn on squealing tires. Greer is doing
all he can to handle the careening limousine, which bumps J.W. Courson's
motorcycle briefly into the curb. The men frantically pull out of the turn
and accelerate toward the emergency entrance of Parkland Hospital
three-quarters of a mile up the road. It's a wonder they haven't wrecked
yet."

Mark
GKnoll
2019-05-01 19:39:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mark
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Mark
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
Post by Robert Reynolds
Parkland has a page on the role it played in the the JFK assassination
at https://www.parklandhospital.com/kennedy-connection
Documents include the letter you found
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Kennedy
/Hospital-Highlights-12-9-63.pdf) and a longer article from a special
edition of Hospital Highlights
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Kennedy
/1894-into-the-Future-Chapter-five.pdf)
The second reference clarifies that JFK was logged into Parkland at
12:38, so this is not necessarily the very instant JFK arrived at
Parkland.
VB also cites Kellerman's testimony at 2 H 80. Kellerman called Gerald
Behn after leaving trauma room one. They both marked down the time,
with Kellerman marking 12:38 and Behn 12:41. Regardless of which was
correct, according to Kellerman's testimony this phone call was three
to five minutes after they arrived at Parkland.
I doubt Kellerman or anyone else took the time to look at their watch once
the limo stopped at Parkland. They had bigger things to worry about. The
better question is why two gurneys weren't waiting for the victims. After
all, they DID call ahead.
The DPD radio dispatcher was immediately told by Chief Curry to notify
Parkland, probably at about 12:31. But, as I recall, one of the doctors at
the hospital got the word that the president was being brought in, and JFK
was already in by the time he got to the trauma room. Perhaps Parkland was
not notified in a timely fashion.
Or Parkland was and the personnel involved didn't communicate with each
other. Slats are you saying DPD Dispatch didn't call Parkland because they
were involved in a conspiracy? Or Parkland employees got the call but
didn't have a stretcher outside in order to prevent the president from
getting the quickest trauma room care because they were involved in a
conspiracy? Mark
It's not about quick trauma room care. JFK was dead with the head shot.
It's about how long it took to get JFK to the hospital.
Yes, he was dead, but probably only his wife and Clint Hill could see
that. (And I'm aware of Hill's thumb-down to the QM. And Steve Ellis told
Larry Sneed that Jim Chaney drove up to him and told him JFK had been shot
in the head and was surely dead.) That's beside the point. We're talking
about the POTUS, and you get him to emergency care as fast as possible no
matter what you know about his wounds. Which is what they did.
But you always
Post by r***@gmail.com
have to question in terms of conspiracy at the slightest mention of
anything, presumably because you are seeking to shut down the discussion
by dismissing it out of hand.
I'm not trying to shut down anything nor can I. I'm trying to get to the
root cause of this exercise. Just about anything you post on here is with
conspiracy as the objective.
Maybe JFK's apparently long ride to Parkland
Post by r***@gmail.com
has nothing to do with a conspiracy. But what's wrong with trying to
understand what happened? We seem to have two specific times. JFK shot at
12:31. JFK admitted at 12:38. Why does a 3-minute ride take 7 minutes?
It's a perfectly reasonable question.
There you are. "Maybe . . . has nothing to do with a conspiracy." MAYBE.
There's nothing wrong with questioning the time, but to what purpose?, is
my question.
Here's more from DPD motorcycle Sgt. Ellis about the ride from Dealey to
"As we approached Harry Hines, it was almost a square turn; there was a
high bank over on the side. All I could see was that big, tall, green bank
and hoping I'd stay stay on the ground going around that. Chaney and I
were side by side with [B.J.] Martin somewhere behind us and the
President's car right on my tail. I was kind of teed off at the agent for
staying so close. Chaney would look back, and I'd look back; we'd speed up
and look back and there he was on our back bumper. I don't care how fast
we went the bumper of the President's car looked like it was right behind
us. He was directly behind us all the way to Parkland! They shouldn't ride
that close on an escort because if we had to take some evasive action or
brake, they'd run over us. We didn't like that too much but it couldn't be
helped under the circumstances."
From Sneed's NO MORE SILENCE, 146-47.
Mark
That is helpful. It tells us that the car with Bowles and Decker did not
get back in front of the limo. I know from other evidence that the car
carrying Bowles and Decker got to Parkland between 1234 and 1235 Channel
2 time.
1***@mail.com
2019-05-03 03:30:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by GKnoll
Post by Mark
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Mark
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
Post by Robert Reynolds
Parkland has a page on the role it played in the the JFK assassination
at https://www.parklandhospital.com/kennedy-connection
Documents include the letter you found
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Kennedy
/Hospital-Highlights-12-9-63.pdf) and a longer article from a special
edition of Hospital Highlights
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Kennedy
/1894-into-the-Future-Chapter-five.pdf)
The second reference clarifies that JFK was logged into Parkland at
12:38, so this is not necessarily the very instant JFK arrived at
Parkland.
VB also cites Kellerman's testimony at 2 H 80. Kellerman called Gerald
Behn after leaving trauma room one. They both marked down the time,
with Kellerman marking 12:38 and Behn 12:41. Regardless of which was
correct, according to Kellerman's testimony this phone call was three
to five minutes after they arrived at Parkland.
I doubt Kellerman or anyone else took the time to look at their watch once
the limo stopped at Parkland. They had bigger things to worry about. The
better question is why two gurneys weren't waiting for the victims. After
all, they DID call ahead.
The DPD radio dispatcher was immediately told by Chief Curry to notify
Parkland, probably at about 12:31. But, as I recall, one of the doctors at
the hospital got the word that the president was being brought in, and JFK
was already in by the time he got to the trauma room. Perhaps Parkland was
not notified in a timely fashion.
Or Parkland was and the personnel involved didn't communicate with each
other. Slats are you saying DPD Dispatch didn't call Parkland because they
were involved in a conspiracy? Or Parkland employees got the call but
didn't have a stretcher outside in order to prevent the president from
getting the quickest trauma room care because they were involved in a
conspiracy? Mark
It's not about quick trauma room care. JFK was dead with the head shot.
It's about how long it took to get JFK to the hospital.
Yes, he was dead, but probably only his wife and Clint Hill could see
that. (And I'm aware of Hill's thumb-down to the QM. And Steve Ellis told
Larry Sneed that Jim Chaney drove up to him and told him JFK had been shot
in the head and was surely dead.) That's beside the point. We're talking
about the POTUS, and you get him to emergency care as fast as possible no
matter what you know about his wounds. Which is what they did.
But you always
Post by r***@gmail.com
have to question in terms of conspiracy at the slightest mention of
anything, presumably because you are seeking to shut down the discussion
by dismissing it out of hand.
I'm not trying to shut down anything nor can I. I'm trying to get to the
root cause of this exercise. Just about anything you post on here is with
conspiracy as the objective.
Maybe JFK's apparently long ride to Parkland
Post by r***@gmail.com
has nothing to do with a conspiracy. But what's wrong with trying to
understand what happened? We seem to have two specific times. JFK shot at
12:31. JFK admitted at 12:38. Why does a 3-minute ride take 7 minutes?
It's a perfectly reasonable question.
There you are. "Maybe . . . has nothing to do with a conspiracy." MAYBE.
There's nothing wrong with questioning the time, but to what purpose?, is
my question.
Here's more from DPD motorcycle Sgt. Ellis about the ride from Dealey to
"As we approached Harry Hines, it was almost a square turn; there was a
high bank over on the side. All I could see was that big, tall, green bank
and hoping I'd stay stay on the ground going around that. Chaney and I
were side by side with [B.J.] Martin somewhere behind us and the
President's car right on my tail. I was kind of teed off at the agent for
staying so close. Chaney would look back, and I'd look back; we'd speed up
and look back and there he was on our back bumper. I don't care how fast
we went the bumper of the President's car looked like it was right behind
us. He was directly behind us all the way to Parkland! They shouldn't ride
that close on an escort because if we had to take some evasive action or
brake, they'd run over us. We didn't like that too much but it couldn't be
helped under the circumstances."
From Sneed's NO MORE SILENCE, 146-47.
Mark
That is helpful. It tells us that the car with Bowles and Decker did not
get back in front of the limo. I know from other evidence that the car
carrying Bowles and Decker got to Parkland between 1234 and 1235 Channel
2 time.
Was Bowles in the car with Decker? The Official Story has Curry, Lawson,
Sorrels and Decker in the same car, with Bowles having the day off, unless
I'm mistaken.
Mark
2019-05-03 17:05:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by GKnoll
Post by Mark
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Mark
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by slats
Post by Robert Reynolds
Parkland has a page on the role it played in the the JFK assassination
at https://www.parklandhospital.com/kennedy-connection
Documents include the letter you found
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Kennedy
/Hospital-Highlights-12-9-63.pdf) and a longer article from a special
edition of Hospital Highlights
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Kennedy
/1894-into-the-Future-Chapter-five.pdf)
The second reference clarifies that JFK was logged into Parkland at
12:38, so this is not necessarily the very instant JFK arrived at
Parkland.
VB also cites Kellerman's testimony at 2 H 80. Kellerman called Gerald
Behn after leaving trauma room one. They both marked down the time,
with Kellerman marking 12:38 and Behn 12:41. Regardless of which was
correct, according to Kellerman's testimony this phone call was three
to five minutes after they arrived at Parkland.
I doubt Kellerman or anyone else took the time to look at their watch once
the limo stopped at Parkland. They had bigger things to worry about. The
better question is why two gurneys weren't waiting for the victims. After
all, they DID call ahead.
The DPD radio dispatcher was immediately told by Chief Curry to notify
Parkland, probably at about 12:31. But, as I recall, one of the doctors at
the hospital got the word that the president was being brought in, and JFK
was already in by the time he got to the trauma room. Perhaps Parkland was
not notified in a timely fashion.
Or Parkland was and the personnel involved didn't communicate with each
other. Slats are you saying DPD Dispatch didn't call Parkland because they
were involved in a conspiracy? Or Parkland employees got the call but
didn't have a stretcher outside in order to prevent the president from
getting the quickest trauma room care because they were involved in a
conspiracy? Mark
It's not about quick trauma room care. JFK was dead with the head shot.
It's about how long it took to get JFK to the hospital.
Yes, he was dead, but probably only his wife and Clint Hill could see
that. (And I'm aware of Hill's thumb-down to the QM. And Steve Ellis told
Larry Sneed that Jim Chaney drove up to him and told him JFK had been shot
in the head and was surely dead.) That's beside the point. We're talking
about the POTUS, and you get him to emergency care as fast as possible no
matter what you know about his wounds. Which is what they did.
But you always
Post by r***@gmail.com
have to question in terms of conspiracy at the slightest mention of
anything, presumably because you are seeking to shut down the discussion
by dismissing it out of hand.
I'm not trying to shut down anything nor can I. I'm trying to get to the
root cause of this exercise. Just about anything you post on here is with
conspiracy as the objective.
Maybe JFK's apparently long ride to Parkland
Post by r***@gmail.com
has nothing to do with a conspiracy. But what's wrong with trying to
understand what happened? We seem to have two specific times. JFK shot at
12:31. JFK admitted at 12:38. Why does a 3-minute ride take 7 minutes?
It's a perfectly reasonable question.
There you are. "Maybe . . . has nothing to do with a conspiracy." MAYBE.
There's nothing wrong with questioning the time, but to what purpose?, is
my question.
Here's more from DPD motorcycle Sgt. Ellis about the ride from Dealey to
"As we approached Harry Hines, it was almost a square turn; there was a
high bank over on the side. All I could see was that big, tall, green bank
and hoping I'd stay stay on the ground going around that. Chaney and I
were side by side with [B.J.] Martin somewhere behind us and the
President's car right on my tail. I was kind of teed off at the agent for
staying so close. Chaney would look back, and I'd look back; we'd speed up
and look back and there he was on our back bumper. I don't care how fast
we went the bumper of the President's car looked like it was right behind
us. He was directly behind us all the way to Parkland! They shouldn't ride
that close on an escort because if we had to take some evasive action or
brake, they'd run over us. We didn't like that too much but it couldn't be
helped under the circumstances."
From Sneed's NO MORE SILENCE, 146-47.
Mark
That is helpful. It tells us that the car with Bowles and Decker did not
get back in front of the limo. I know from other evidence that the car
carrying Bowles and Decker got to Parkland between 1234 and 1235 Channel
2 time.
Always glad to be helpful. Seriously.

But I don't understand your reference to Bowles and Decker. Sheriff Decker
was in the lead car. Chief Curry drove, and SSA Lawson rode shotgun. In
the backseat Decker was seated on the left with SSA Sorrels to his
right.

Anyway, we know from a recent thread that the clock on top of the
Depository registered 12:30 as the front portion of the motorcade turned
onto Elm. Splitting the difference in your times, that puts the white Ford
Decker was a passenger in arriving at Parkland about 4.5 minutes after
they fled Dealey Plaza.

Mark
Steve M. Galbraith
2019-04-28 01:01:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
One of the Parkland nurses, Diana Bowron, gave this account (WC testimony):

Mr. SPECTER - Will you relate briefly the circumstances surrounding your
being called in to assist in that case?

Miss BOWRON - I was assigned to work in the minor medicine and surgery
area and I was passing through major surgery and I heard over the intercom
that they needed carts out at the emergency room entrance, so the orderly
from the triage desk, which was passing through and he and I took one cart
from major surgery and ran down the hall and by the cashier's desk, there
were some men I assume were Secret Service men.

So it appears that the first time they announced that carts were needed
was after or near the same time that the limo arrived. I'll assume that if
it was announced earlier that they would have brought the carts out and
would be waiting the arrival and that it wouldn't be necessary to repeat
the announcement.

Her account has them bringing the carts out at about the same time that,
apparently, SS men entered the hospital to presumably get carts
themselves.

If this account is true then Parkland was not ready for the arrival. Not
ahead of it.
Steve M. Galbraith
2019-04-28 17:49:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Mr. SPECTER - Will you relate briefly the circumstances surrounding your
being called in to assist in that case?
Miss BOWRON - I was assigned to work in the minor medicine and surgery
area and I was passing through major surgery and I heard over the intercom
that they needed carts out at the emergency room entrance, so the orderly
from the triage desk, which was passing through and he and I took one cart
from major surgery and ran down the hall and by the cashier's desk, there
were some men I assume were Secret Service men.
So it appears that the first time they announced that carts were needed
was after or near the same time that the limo arrived. I'll assume that if
it was announced earlier that they would have brought the carts out and
would be waiting the arrival and that it wouldn't be necessary to repeat
the announcement.
Her account has them bringing the carts out at about the same time that,
apparently, SS men entered the hospital to presumably get carts
themselves.
If this account is true then Parkland was not ready for the arrival. Not
ahead of it.
Even more remarkable, if her account is accurate, is that she and an
orderly took carts out of surgery and NOT from the emergency room. I
assume the ER had carts around? It appears from this account that NO ONE
in the ER department was prepared for the arrival.
Steve M. Galbraith
2019-04-29 01:01:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Mr. SPECTER - Will you relate briefly the circumstances surrounding your
being called in to assist in that case?
Miss BOWRON - I was assigned to work in the minor medicine and surgery
area and I was passing through major surgery and I heard over the intercom
that they needed carts out at the emergency room entrance, so the orderly
from the triage desk, which was passing through and he and I took one cart
from major surgery and ran down the hall and by the cashier's desk, there
were some men I assume were Secret Service men.
So it appears that the first time they announced that carts were needed
was after or near the same time that the limo arrived. I'll assume that if
it was announced earlier that they would have brought the carts out and
would be waiting the arrival and that it wouldn't be necessary to repeat
the announcement.
Her account has them bringing the carts out at about the same time that,
apparently, SS men entered the hospital to presumably get carts
themselves.
If this account is true then Parkland was not ready for the arrival. Not
ahead of it.
Even more remarkable, if her account is accurate, is that she and an
orderly took carts out of surgery and NOT from the emergency room. I
assume the ER had carts around? It appears from this account that NO ONE
in the ER department was prepared for the arrival.
From Bugliosi's account: "At Parkland Hospital, the presidential limousine
pulls up abruptly as the emergency entrance. Secret Service agent Roy
Kellerman leaps from the car and opens the back door. Not a guner or a
hospital orderly is in sight. Almost by the time it took Dallas police to
notify Parkland of the president's imminent arrival, the limousine was
already at the back entrance. The Secret Service follow up car skids to a
stop and a half-dozen agents tumble out.

"Go get us two stretchers on wheels" Kellerman yells to them.

Special Agent Winston Lawson is the first into the building. He spots two
gurneys at the end of a long corridor being pushed toward him. He dashes
down and helps Nurse Diana Bowron and an orderly, Joe Richards, race them
back to the entrance."
Anthony Marsh
2019-04-30 00:56:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Mr. SPECTER - Will you relate briefly the circumstances surrounding your
being called in to assist in that case?
Miss BOWRON - I was assigned to work in the minor medicine and surgery
area and I was passing through major surgery and I heard over the intercom
that they needed carts out at the emergency room entrance, so the orderly
from the triage desk, which was passing through and he and I took one cart
from major surgery and ran down the hall and by the cashier's desk, there
were some men I assume were Secret Service men.
So it appears that the first time they announced that carts were needed
was after or near the same time that the limo arrived. I'll assume that if
it was announced earlier that they would have brought the carts out and
would be waiting the arrival and that it wouldn't be necessary to repeat
the announcement.
Her account has them bringing the carts out at about the same time that,
apparently, SS men entered the hospital to presumably get carts
themselves.
If this account is true then Parkland was not ready for the arrival. Not
ahead of it.
Even more remarkable, if her account is accurate, is that she and an
orderly took carts out of surgery and NOT from the emergency room. I
assume the ER had carts around? It appears from this account that NO ONE
in the ER department was prepared for the arrival.
From Bugliosi's account: "At Parkland Hospital, the presidential limousine
pulls up abruptly as the emergency entrance. Secret Service agent Roy
Kellerman leaps from the car and opens the back door. Not a guner or a
hospital orderly is in sight. Almost by the time it took Dallas police to
notify Parkland of the president's imminent arrival, the limousine was
already at the back entrance. The Secret Service follow up car skids to a
stop and a half-dozen agents tumble out.
"Go get us two stretchers on wheels" Kellerman yells to them.
Special Agent Winston Lawson is the first into the building. He spots two
gurneys at the end of a long corridor being pushed toward him. He dashes
down and helps Nurse Diana Bowron and an orderly, Joe Richards, race them
back to the entrance."
So it sounds as if Parkland was getting ready, but the limo arrived
faster than they thought it could.
1***@mail.com
2019-04-30 20:43:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Mr. SPECTER - Will you relate briefly the circumstances surrounding your
being called in to assist in that case?
Miss BOWRON - I was assigned to work in the minor medicine and surgery
area and I was passing through major surgery and I heard over the intercom
that they needed carts out at the emergency room entrance, so the orderly
from the triage desk, which was passing through and he and I took one cart
from major surgery and ran down the hall and by the cashier's desk, there
were some men I assume were Secret Service men.
So it appears that the first time they announced that carts were needed
was after or near the same time that the limo arrived. I'll assume that if
it was announced earlier that they would have brought the carts out and
would be waiting the arrival and that it wouldn't be necessary to repeat
the announcement.
Her account has them bringing the carts out at about the same time that,
apparently, SS men entered the hospital to presumably get carts
themselves.
If this account is true then Parkland was not ready for the arrival. Not
ahead of it.
Even more remarkable, if her account is accurate, is that she and an
orderly took carts out of surgery and NOT from the emergency room. I
assume the ER had carts around? It appears from this account that NO ONE
in the ER department was prepared for the arrival.
From Bugliosi's account: "At Parkland Hospital, the presidential limousine
pulls up abruptly as the emergency entrance. Secret Service agent Roy
Kellerman leaps from the car and opens the back door. Not a guner or a
hospital orderly is in sight. Almost by the time it took Dallas police to
notify Parkland of the president's imminent arrival, the limousine was
already at the back entrance. The Secret Service follow up car skids to a
stop and a half-dozen agents tumble out.
"Go get us two stretchers on wheels" Kellerman yells to them.
Special Agent Winston Lawson is the first into the building. He spots two
gurneys at the end of a long corridor being pushed toward him. He dashes
down and helps Nurse Diana Bowron and an orderly, Joe Richards, race them
back to the entrance."
So it sounds as if Parkland was getting ready, but the limo arrived
faster than they thought it could.
According to Doris Nelson's WC testimony, she had 3 to 5 minutes warning
time. Even you could have been ready in 3 minutes.

My babies! Google censorship has forced me to revert to my old name here.
I'm not trying to trick you, as if that could possibly be done to such
wise babies!
r***@gmail.com
2019-04-29 00:55:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Mr. SPECTER - Will you relate briefly the circumstances surrounding your
being called in to assist in that case?
Miss BOWRON - I was assigned to work in the minor medicine and surgery
area and I was passing through major surgery and I heard over the intercom
that they needed carts out at the emergency room entrance, so the orderly
from the triage desk, which was passing through and he and I took one cart
from major surgery and ran down the hall and by the cashier's desk, there
were some men I assume were Secret Service men.
So it appears that the first time they announced that carts were needed
was after or near the same time that the limo arrived. I'll assume that if
it was announced earlier that they would have brought the carts out and
would be waiting the arrival and that it wouldn't be necessary to repeat
the announcement.
Her account has them bringing the carts out at about the same time that,
apparently, SS men entered the hospital to presumably get carts
themselves.
If this account is true then Parkland was not ready for the arrival. Not
ahead of it.
Apparently, Parkland should have had 6 or 7 minutes to prepare for the
president's arrival, if the dispatcher had called them as he said he did.
But it looks as if Parkland was not notified until the president's car
drove up to the emergency entrance.
Robert Reynolds
2019-04-29 00:58:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
As Bugliosi notes (RH p. 53), Parkland did not have much prep time before
the arrival of the motorcade. This can be seen in Nursing supervisor Doris
Nelson's statement (Price Exhibit 31, 21 H 241):

At approximately 12:00 Noon I returned from lunch and proceeded to check
the various areas in the Emergency Room. At approximately 12:33 P.M., I
answered the phone which was ringing in the Major Surgery Nurses Station.
Mrs. Bartlett, the telephone operator, informed me that the President had
been shot, and was being brought to the hospital. I told her to "stop
kidding me." She said "I am not. I have the police dispatcher on the
line." I thanked her and immediately hung up the phone.

I asked Dr Dulaney, the Surgery Resident, to come into Trauma Room #1, and
that I wished to talk with him because I did not wish to alert everyone
which might have caused general pandemonium in the Emergency Room. I
informed Mrs Standridge, and she told me that Room #1 was set up so I
proceeded into Room #2 and had opened one bottle of Ringer's Lactate when
I heard someone call for carriages.

Seconds later Governor Connally was brought into Room #2. I opened his
shirt and saw that he had received a gunshot wound of the chest. Mrs.
Standridge was in the room assisting the doctor so as I walked out of the
room to check on the President he was wheeled into Trauma Room #1.

The Price exhibit, which consists of statements from Parkland staff
"concerning the treatment of President Kennedy and Governor Connally,"
gives at least a half dozen different estimates of Kennedy and Connally's
arrival time, from 12:30 to 1:00 pm. Kellerman was the only one who says
he checked the time.
r***@gmail.com
2019-04-30 00:50:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert Reynolds
As Bugliosi notes (RH p. 53), Parkland did not have much prep time before
the arrival of the motorcade. This can be seen in Nursing supervisor Doris
At approximately 12:00 Noon I returned from lunch and proceeded to check
the various areas in the Emergency Room. At approximately 12:33 P.M., I
answered the phone which was ringing in the Major Surgery Nurses Station.
Mrs. Bartlett, the telephone operator, informed me that the President had
been shot, and was being brought to the hospital. I told her to "stop
kidding me." She said "I am not. I have the police dispatcher on the
line." I thanked her and immediately hung up the phone.
I asked Dr Dulaney, the Surgery Resident, to come into Trauma Room #1, and
that I wished to talk with him because I did not wish to alert everyone
which might have caused general pandemonium in the Emergency Room. I
informed Mrs Standridge, and she told me that Room #1 was set up so I
proceeded into Room #2 and had opened one bottle of Ringer's Lactate when
I heard someone call for carriages.
Seconds later Governor Connally was brought into Room #2. I opened his
shirt and saw that he had received a gunshot wound of the chest. Mrs.
Standridge was in the room assisting the doctor so as I walked out of the
room to check on the President he was wheeled into Trauma Room #1.
The Price exhibit, which consists of statements from Parkland staff
"concerning the treatment of President Kennedy and Governor Connally,"
gives at least a half dozen different estimates of Kennedy and Connally's
arrival time, from 12:30 to 1:00 pm. Kellerman was the only one who says
he checked the time.
OK. I don't know if Bugliosi can be trusted, but this is relevant
information. You have answered well.
Anthony Marsh
2019-05-02 02:49:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Robert Reynolds
As Bugliosi notes (RH p. 53), Parkland did not have much prep time before
the arrival of the motorcade. This can be seen in Nursing supervisor Doris
At approximately 12:00 Noon I returned from lunch and proceeded to check
the various areas in the Emergency Room. At approximately 12:33 P.M., I
answered the phone which was ringing in the Major Surgery Nurses Station.
Mrs. Bartlett, the telephone operator, informed me that the President had
been shot, and was being brought to the hospital. I told her to "stop
kidding me." She said "I am not. I have the police dispatcher on the
line." I thanked her and immediately hung up the phone.
I asked Dr Dulaney, the Surgery Resident, to come into Trauma Room #1, and
that I wished to talk with him because I did not wish to alert everyone
which might have caused general pandemonium in the Emergency Room. I
informed Mrs Standridge, and she told me that Room #1 was set up so I
proceeded into Room #2 and had opened one bottle of Ringer's Lactate when
I heard someone call for carriages.
Seconds later Governor Connally was brought into Room #2. I opened his
shirt and saw that he had received a gunshot wound of the chest. Mrs.
Standridge was in the room assisting the doctor so as I walked out of the
room to check on the President he was wheeled into Trauma Room #1.
The Price exhibit, which consists of statements from Parkland staff
"concerning the treatment of President Kennedy and Governor Connally,"
gives at least a half dozen different estimates of Kennedy and Connally's
arrival time, from 12:30 to 1:00 pm. Kellerman was the only one who says
he checked the time.
OK. I don't know if Bugliosi can be trusted, but this is relevant
information. You have answered well.
Bugliosi was a professional liar, but his CD is full of original
documents.
Robert Reynolds
2019-05-03 03:40:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Bugliosi was a professional liar, but his CD is full of original
documents.
This is not correct. The CD for Restoring History includes only Bugliosi's
source and end notes; it has no original or source documents at all. What
these notes do include is things like keys to Bugliosi's original
research, such as citations for his extensive interviews with a vast range
of important figures in the history of the assassination, including people
like Norman Redlich, who gave almost no interviews at all.

Even more important, they include accurate citations of the documentary
record that will help you find the sources he used for the vast majority
of his 1612 page narrative. This means you can search his text, either
chronologically or by subject, then go to the source/end notes to find
where he got his info.

The labor in compiling these notes boggles the mind. It is no wonder that
the whole thing took him a couple of decades to write. I have worked
professionally with annotated historical texts for over two decades and I
can't name another work on recent American history sourced with such
detail and accuracy. Can you?

I use it as an encyclopedia of the JFK assassination; it is the quickest,
most reliable general reference on the subject that I know of.
1***@mail.com
2019-05-03 17:11:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert Reynolds
Post by Anthony Marsh
Bugliosi was a professional liar, but his CD is full of original
documents.
This is not correct. The CD for Restoring History includes only Bugliosi's
source and end notes; it has no original or source documents at all. What
these notes do include is things like keys to Bugliosi's original
research, such as citations for his extensive interviews with a vast range
of important figures in the history of the assassination, including people
like Norman Redlich, who gave almost no interviews at all.
Even more important, they include accurate citations of the documentary
record that will help you find the sources he used for the vast majority
of his 1612 page narrative. This means you can search his text, either
chronologically or by subject, then go to the source/end notes to find
where he got his info.
The labor in compiling these notes boggles the mind. It is no wonder that
the whole thing took him a couple of decades to write. I have worked
professionally with annotated historical texts for over two decades and I
can't name another work on recent American history sourced with such
detail and accuracy. Can you?
I use it as an encyclopedia of the JFK assassination; it is the quickest,
most reliable general reference on the subject that I know of.
Great! Then you can tell me exactly what that "Price exhibit" is that
Bugliosi referenced. Is it some HSCA document?
Steve M. Galbraith
2019-05-04 03:39:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by 1***@mail.com
Post by Robert Reynolds
Post by Anthony Marsh
Bugliosi was a professional liar, but his CD is full of original
documents.
This is not correct. The CD for Restoring History includes only Bugliosi's
source and end notes; it has no original or source documents at all. What
these notes do include is things like keys to Bugliosi's original
research, such as citations for his extensive interviews with a vast range
of important figures in the history of the assassination, including people
like Norman Redlich, who gave almost no interviews at all.
Even more important, they include accurate citations of the documentary
record that will help you find the sources he used for the vast majority
of his 1612 page narrative. This means you can search his text, either
chronologically or by subject, then go to the source/end notes to find
where he got his info.
The labor in compiling these notes boggles the mind. It is no wonder that
the whole thing took him a couple of decades to write. I have worked
professionally with annotated historical texts for over two decades and I
can't name another work on recent American history sourced with such
detail and accuracy. Can you?
I use it as an encyclopedia of the JFK assassination; it is the quickest,
most reliable general reference on the subject that I know of.
Great! Then you can tell me exactly what that "Price exhibit" is that
Bugliosi referenced. Is it some HSCA document?
It's here:
https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/pdf/WH21_Price_Ex_2-35.pdf

You need to scroll down to page roughly 105 of the documents (page 254 in
the originals).

This has a series of accounts by witnesses as to events at Parkland.
1***@mail.com
2019-05-05 01:13:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by 1***@mail.com
Post by Robert Reynolds
Post by Anthony Marsh
Bugliosi was a professional liar, but his CD is full of original
documents.
This is not correct. The CD for Restoring History includes only Bugliosi's
source and end notes; it has no original or source documents at all. What
these notes do include is things like keys to Bugliosi's original
research, such as citations for his extensive interviews with a vast range
of important figures in the history of the assassination, including people
like Norman Redlich, who gave almost no interviews at all.
Even more important, they include accurate citations of the documentary
record that will help you find the sources he used for the vast majority
of his 1612 page narrative. This means you can search his text, either
chronologically or by subject, then go to the source/end notes to find
where he got his info.
The labor in compiling these notes boggles the mind. It is no wonder that
the whole thing took him a couple of decades to write. I have worked
professionally with annotated historical texts for over two decades and I
can't name another work on recent American history sourced with such
detail and accuracy. Can you?
I use it as an encyclopedia of the JFK assassination; it is the quickest,
most reliable general reference on the subject that I know of.
Great! Then you can tell me exactly what that "Price exhibit" is that
Bugliosi referenced. Is it some HSCA document?
https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/pdf/WH21_Price_Ex_2-35.pdf
You need to scroll down to page roughly 105 of the documents (page 254 in
the originals).
This has a series of accounts by witnesses as to events at Parkland.
Thank you. I should have been able to find it, I see. Nothing showed up in
my searching. Very decent of you.
1***@mail.com
2019-05-05 01:14:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by 1***@mail.com
Post by Robert Reynolds
Post by Anthony Marsh
Bugliosi was a professional liar, but his CD is full of original
documents.
This is not correct. The CD for Restoring History includes only Bugliosi's
source and end notes; it has no original or source documents at all. What
these notes do include is things like keys to Bugliosi's original
research, such as citations for his extensive interviews with a vast range
of important figures in the history of the assassination, including people
like Norman Redlich, who gave almost no interviews at all.
Even more important, they include accurate citations of the documentary
record that will help you find the sources he used for the vast majority
of his 1612 page narrative. This means you can search his text, either
chronologically or by subject, then go to the source/end notes to find
where he got his info.
The labor in compiling these notes boggles the mind. It is no wonder that
the whole thing took him a couple of decades to write. I have worked
professionally with annotated historical texts for over two decades and I
can't name another work on recent American history sourced with such
detail and accuracy. Can you?
I use it as an encyclopedia of the JFK assassination; it is the quickest,
most reliable general reference on the subject that I know of.
Great! Then you can tell me exactly what that "Price exhibit" is that
Bugliosi referenced. Is it some HSCA document?
https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/pdf/WH21_Price_Ex_2-35.pdf
You need to scroll down to page roughly 105 of the documents (page 254 in
the originals).
This has a series of accounts by witnesses as to events at Parkland.
The question of this thread is answered in the first sentence of the Price
Exhibit:

"The president arrived at the emergency room at 12:43 pm."

Well, that's the emergency room, not the hospital, but he couldn't have
been there for more than a minute or two before they took him in. Even I
don't think it really was that late, but I don't know. I'll have to read
this thing carefully.
1***@mail.com
2019-05-05 01:19:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by 1***@mail.com
Post by Robert Reynolds
Post by Anthony Marsh
Bugliosi was a professional liar, but his CD is full of original
documents.
This is not correct. The CD for Restoring History includes only Bugliosi's
source and end notes; it has no original or source documents at all. What
these notes do include is things like keys to Bugliosi's original
research, such as citations for his extensive interviews with a vast range
of important figures in the history of the assassination, including people
like Norman Redlich, who gave almost no interviews at all.
Even more important, they include accurate citations of the documentary
record that will help you find the sources he used for the vast majority
of his 1612 page narrative. This means you can search his text, either
chronologically or by subject, then go to the source/end notes to find
where he got his info.
The labor in compiling these notes boggles the mind. It is no wonder that
the whole thing took him a couple of decades to write. I have worked
professionally with annotated historical texts for over two decades and I
can't name another work on recent American history sourced with such
detail and accuracy. Can you?
I use it as an encyclopedia of the JFK assassination; it is the quickest,
most reliable general reference on the subject that I know of.
Great! Then you can tell me exactly what that "Price exhibit" is that
Bugliosi referenced. Is it some HSCA document?
https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/pdf/WH21_Price_Ex_2-35.pdf
You need to scroll down to page roughly 105 of the documents (page 254 in
the originals).
This has a series of accounts by witnesses as to events at Parkland.
The Price exhibit doesn't give consistent times. many people say things
like "about 12:30." But on page 153 0f the document it says, "The
President arrived in the Emergency Room at exactly 12:43 p.m. in his
limousine." And the "12:43" is crossed out with a "12:38" correction.
Interesting that somebody typed up a time of "exactly 12:43." 12:43 is
also the time given on page 151, I think by Dr. Kemp Clark. The patient
registration sheet in the document states a time of 12:38 for JFK, but
oddly has Connally at 12:40, even though we know Connally was brought in
first. Holcomb, who was with Price, says he heard the sirens at about
12:40. Price said he looked at his watch before he heard the sirens,
thinking of some other issue, but doesn't say how long after that he heard
the sirens. But, then again, he says he looked at his watch when the
casket passed him on the way out to the hearse, and his watch said 2:20 at
that time. All other info I know of says that the hearse left 10 minutes
or so before that.

All of the Official Story information, I'd say, suggests a 12:38 time, but
when somebody types up something that says "exactly 12:43," and then the
guy with the faulty watch-reading skills corrects it to 12:38, that makes
me wonder.

Great to see some real evidence instead of the usual Lone Nutter
propaganda crap, though. Thanks again.
Steve M. Galbraith
2019-05-07 02:53:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by 1***@mail.com
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by 1***@mail.com
Post by Robert Reynolds
Post by Anthony Marsh
Bugliosi was a professional liar, but his CD is full of original
documents.
This is not correct. The CD for Restoring History includes only Bugliosi's
source and end notes; it has no original or source documents at all. What
these notes do include is things like keys to Bugliosi's original
research, such as citations for his extensive interviews with a vast range
of important figures in the history of the assassination, including people
like Norman Redlich, who gave almost no interviews at all.
Even more important, they include accurate citations of the documentary
record that will help you find the sources he used for the vast majority
of his 1612 page narrative. This means you can search his text, either
chronologically or by subject, then go to the source/end notes to find
where he got his info.
The labor in compiling these notes boggles the mind. It is no wonder that
the whole thing took him a couple of decades to write. I have worked
professionally with annotated historical texts for over two decades and I
can't name another work on recent American history sourced with such
detail and accuracy. Can you?
I use it as an encyclopedia of the JFK assassination; it is the quickest,
most reliable general reference on the subject that I know of.
Great! Then you can tell me exactly what that "Price exhibit" is that
Bugliosi referenced. Is it some HSCA document?
https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/pdf/WH21_Price_Ex_2-35.pdf
You need to scroll down to page roughly 105 of the documents (page 254 in
the originals).
This has a series of accounts by witnesses as to events at Parkland.
The Price exhibit doesn't give consistent times. many people say things
like "about 12:30." But on page 153 0f the document it says, "The
President arrived in the Emergency Room at exactly 12:43 p.m. in his
limousine." And the "12:43" is crossed out with a "12:38" correction.
Interesting that somebody typed up a time of "exactly 12:43." 12:43 is
also the time given on page 151, I think by Dr. Kemp Clark. The patient
registration sheet in the document states a time of 12:38 for JFK, but
oddly has Connally at 12:40, even though we know Connally was brought in
first. Holcomb, who was with Price, says he heard the sirens at about
12:40. Price said he looked at his watch before he heard the sirens,
thinking of some other issue, but doesn't say how long after that he heard
the sirens. But, then again, he says he looked at his watch when the
casket passed him on the way out to the hearse, and his watch said 2:20 at
that time. All other info I know of says that the hearse left 10 minutes
or so before that.
All of the Official Story information, I'd say, suggests a 12:38 time, but
when somebody types up something that says "exactly 12:43," and then the
guy with the faulty watch-reading skills corrects it to 12:38, that makes
me wonder.
Great to see some real evidence instead of the usual Lone Nutter
propaganda crap, though. Thanks again.
If these powerful people for whatever reason (and I've yet to hear a
reason for it) wanted to get rid of JFK they didn't need to shoot him in
broad daylight with hundreds of people around, many with cameras, to do
so.

This entire conspiracy claim about having to get rid of him because he
somehow threatened the real cabal that runs the country is absurd. It's
worse than absurd: it's false.

You hate the world. Fine. Hate it. But don't use this event to express
your grievances with it.

You can, obviously; it's not my call; but it's a waste of your life.
1***@mail.com
2019-05-08 00:31:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by 1***@mail.com
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by 1***@mail.com
Post by Robert Reynolds
Post by Anthony Marsh
Bugliosi was a professional liar, but his CD is full of original
documents.
This is not correct. The CD for Restoring History includes only Bugliosi's
source and end notes; it has no original or source documents at all. What
these notes do include is things like keys to Bugliosi's original
research, such as citations for his extensive interviews with a vast range
of important figures in the history of the assassination, including people
like Norman Redlich, who gave almost no interviews at all.
Even more important, they include accurate citations of the documentary
record that will help you find the sources he used for the vast majority
of his 1612 page narrative. This means you can search his text, either
chronologically or by subject, then go to the source/end notes to find
where he got his info.
The labor in compiling these notes boggles the mind. It is no wonder that
the whole thing took him a couple of decades to write. I have worked
professionally with annotated historical texts for over two decades and I
can't name another work on recent American history sourced with such
detail and accuracy. Can you?
I use it as an encyclopedia of the JFK assassination; it is the quickest,
most reliable general reference on the subject that I know of.
Great! Then you can tell me exactly what that "Price exhibit" is that
Bugliosi referenced. Is it some HSCA document?
https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/pdf/WH21_Price_Ex_2-35.pdf
You need to scroll down to page roughly 105 of the documents (page 254 in
the originals).
This has a series of accounts by witnesses as to events at Parkland.
The Price exhibit doesn't give consistent times. many people say things
like "about 12:30." But on page 153 0f the document it says, "The
President arrived in the Emergency Room at exactly 12:43 p.m. in his
limousine." And the "12:43" is crossed out with a "12:38" correction.
Interesting that somebody typed up a time of "exactly 12:43." 12:43 is
also the time given on page 151, I think by Dr. Kemp Clark. The patient
registration sheet in the document states a time of 12:38 for JFK, but
oddly has Connally at 12:40, even though we know Connally was brought in
first. Holcomb, who was with Price, says he heard the sirens at about
12:40. Price said he looked at his watch before he heard the sirens,
thinking of some other issue, but doesn't say how long after that he heard
the sirens. But, then again, he says he looked at his watch when the
casket passed him on the way out to the hearse, and his watch said 2:20 at
that time. All other info I know of says that the hearse left 10 minutes
or so before that.
All of the Official Story information, I'd say, suggests a 12:38 time, but
when somebody types up something that says "exactly 12:43," and then the
guy with the faulty watch-reading skills corrects it to 12:38, that makes
me wonder.
Great to see some real evidence instead of the usual Lone Nutter
propaganda crap, though. Thanks again.
If these powerful people for whatever reason (and I've yet to hear a
reason for it) wanted to get rid of JFK they didn't need to shoot him in
broad daylight with hundreds of people around, many with cameras, to do
so.
This entire conspiracy claim about having to get rid of him because he
somehow threatened the real cabal that runs the country is absurd. It's
worse than absurd: it's false.
You hate the world. Fine. Hate it. But don't use this event to express
your grievances with it.
You can, obviously; it's not my call; but it's a waste of your life.
Now you're just back in propaganda mode. Your friends murdered my
president, and I'll keep saying so.
Steve M. Galbraith
2019-05-10 02:15:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by 1***@mail.com
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by 1***@mail.com
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by 1***@mail.com
Post by Robert Reynolds
Post by Anthony Marsh
Bugliosi was a professional liar, but his CD is full of original
documents.
This is not correct. The CD for Restoring History includes only Bugliosi's
source and end notes; it has no original or source documents at all. What
these notes do include is things like keys to Bugliosi's original
research, such as citations for his extensive interviews with a vast range
of important figures in the history of the assassination, including people
like Norman Redlich, who gave almost no interviews at all.
Even more important, they include accurate citations of the documentary
record that will help you find the sources he used for the vast majority
of his 1612 page narrative. This means you can search his text, either
chronologically or by subject, then go to the source/end notes to find
where he got his info.
The labor in compiling these notes boggles the mind. It is no wonder that
the whole thing took him a couple of decades to write. I have worked
professionally with annotated historical texts for over two decades and I
can't name another work on recent American history sourced with such
detail and accuracy. Can you?
I use it as an encyclopedia of the JFK assassination; it is the quickest,
most reliable general reference on the subject that I know of.
Great! Then you can tell me exactly what that "Price exhibit" is that
Bugliosi referenced. Is it some HSCA document?
https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/pdf/WH21_Price_Ex_2-35.pdf
You need to scroll down to page roughly 105 of the documents (page 254 in
the originals).
This has a series of accounts by witnesses as to events at Parkland.
The Price exhibit doesn't give consistent times. many people say things
like "about 12:30." But on page 153 0f the document it says, "The
President arrived in the Emergency Room at exactly 12:43 p.m. in his
limousine." And the "12:43" is crossed out with a "12:38" correction.
Interesting that somebody typed up a time of "exactly 12:43." 12:43 is
also the time given on page 151, I think by Dr. Kemp Clark. The patient
registration sheet in the document states a time of 12:38 for JFK, but
oddly has Connally at 12:40, even though we know Connally was brought in
first. Holcomb, who was with Price, says he heard the sirens at about
12:40. Price said he looked at his watch before he heard the sirens,
thinking of some other issue, but doesn't say how long after that he heard
the sirens. But, then again, he says he looked at his watch when the
casket passed him on the way out to the hearse, and his watch said 2:20 at
that time. All other info I know of says that the hearse left 10 minutes
or so before that.
All of the Official Story information, I'd say, suggests a 12:38 time, but
when somebody types up something that says "exactly 12:43," and then the
guy with the faulty watch-reading skills corrects it to 12:38, that makes
me wonder.
Great to see some real evidence instead of the usual Lone Nutter
propaganda crap, though. Thanks again.
If these powerful people for whatever reason (and I've yet to hear a
reason for it) wanted to get rid of JFK they didn't need to shoot him in
broad daylight with hundreds of people around, many with cameras, to do
so.
This entire conspiracy claim about having to get rid of him because he
somehow threatened the real cabal that runs the country is absurd. It's
worse than absurd: it's false.
You hate the world. Fine. Hate it. But don't use this event to express
your grievances with it.
You can, obviously; it's not my call; but it's a waste of your life.
Now you're just back in propaganda mode. Your friends murdered my
president, and I'll keep saying so.
My friends? You've said Greer shot JFK. And you've said one of the black
workers shot JFK. And you've said you can hear one of the DPD officers
describe him shooting JFK on the Channel 1 recordings.

You have JFK being shot by his driver AND being shot by a shooter on the
fifth floor. These are not "my friends". These are you delusions.

The assassination attracts people like you. People who use the
assassination to express their anger with the world. But nobody takes your
claims seriously. Which is what I should have done.
Deth2Uall Asouls
2019-05-11 01:08:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by 1***@mail.com
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by 1***@mail.com
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by 1***@mail.com
Post by Robert Reynolds
Post by Anthony Marsh
Bugliosi was a professional liar, but his CD is full of original
documents.
This is not correct. The CD for Restoring History includes only Bugliosi's
source and end notes; it has no original or source documents at all. What
these notes do include is things like keys to Bugliosi's original
research, such as citations for his extensive interviews with a vast range
of important figures in the history of the assassination, including people
like Norman Redlich, who gave almost no interviews at all.
Even more important, they include accurate citations of the documentary
record that will help you find the sources he used for the vast majority
of his 1612 page narrative. This means you can search his text, either
chronologically or by subject, then go to the source/end notes to find
where he got his info.
The labor in compiling these notes boggles the mind. It is no wonder that
the whole thing took him a couple of decades to write. I have worked
professionally with annotated historical texts for over two decades and I
can't name another work on recent American history sourced with such
detail and accuracy. Can you?
I use it as an encyclopedia of the JFK assassination; it is the quickest,
most reliable general reference on the subject that I know of.
Great! Then you can tell me exactly what that "Price exhibit" is that
Bugliosi referenced. Is it some HSCA document?
https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/pdf/WH21_Price_Ex_2-35.pdf
You need to scroll down to page roughly 105 of the documents (page 254 in
the originals).
This has a series of accounts by witnesses as to events at Parkland.
The Price exhibit doesn't give consistent times. many people say things
like "about 12:30." But on page 153 0f the document it says, "The
President arrived in the Emergency Room at exactly 12:43 p.m. in his
limousine." And the "12:43" is crossed out with a "12:38" correction.
Interesting that somebody typed up a time of "exactly 12:43." 12:43 is
also the time given on page 151, I think by Dr. Kemp Clark. The patient
registration sheet in the document states a time of 12:38 for JFK, but
oddly has Connally at 12:40, even though we know Connally was brought in
first. Holcomb, who was with Price, says he heard the sirens at about
12:40. Price said he looked at his watch before he heard the sirens,
thinking of some other issue, but doesn't say how long after that he heard
the sirens. But, then again, he says he looked at his watch when the
casket passed him on the way out to the hearse, and his watch said 2:20 at
that time. All other info I know of says that the hearse left 10 minutes
or so before that.
All of the Official Story information, I'd say, suggests a 12:38 time, but
when somebody types up something that says "exactly 12:43," and then the
guy with the faulty watch-reading skills corrects it to 12:38, that makes
me wonder.
Great to see some real evidence instead of the usual Lone Nutter
propaganda crap, though. Thanks again.
If these powerful people for whatever reason (and I've yet to hear a
reason for it) wanted to get rid of JFK they didn't need to shoot him in
broad daylight with hundreds of people around, many with cameras, to do
so.
This entire conspiracy claim about having to get rid of him because he
somehow threatened the real cabal that runs the country is absurd. It's
worse than absurd: it's false.
You hate the world. Fine. Hate it. But don't use this event to express
your grievances with it.
You can, obviously; it's not my call; but it's a waste of your life.
Now you're just back in propaganda mode. Your friends murdered my
president, and I'll keep saying so.
My friends? You've said Greer shot JFK. And you've said one of the black
workers shot JFK. And you've said you can hear one of the DPD officers
describe him shooting JFK on the Channel 1 recordings.
You have JFK being shot by his driver AND being shot by a shooter on the
fifth floor. These are not "my friends". These are you delusions.
The assassination attracts people like you. People who use the
assassination to express their anger with the world. But nobody takes your
claims seriously. Which is what I should have done.
Greer shot JFK. And the Railroad Detective on the overpass shot JFK.
Nobody on the 5th floor shot JFK; those were decoy shots so that the patsy
could be blamed. And, you don't understand what I said about the
assassins' messages recorded on the Dictabelt: I would explain, but you
don't care. Your friends are the murderers whom you apparently work for.
The shooters also worked for them. I assume they are friends because I'm
sure they don't pay you for what you do here. They may be murderers, but
they are not stupid. You must like them, so I call them your friends.

"Exactly 12:43," I believe was the topic.
Steve M. Galbraith
2019-05-08 00:40:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by 1***@mail.com
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by 1***@mail.com
Post by Robert Reynolds
Post by Anthony Marsh
Bugliosi was a professional liar, but his CD is full of original
documents.
This is not correct. The CD for Restoring History includes only Bugliosi's
source and end notes; it has no original or source documents at all. What
these notes do include is things like keys to Bugliosi's original
research, such as citations for his extensive interviews with a vast range
of important figures in the history of the assassination, including people
like Norman Redlich, who gave almost no interviews at all.
Even more important, they include accurate citations of the documentary
record that will help you find the sources he used for the vast majority
of his 1612 page narrative. This means you can search his text, either
chronologically or by subject, then go to the source/end notes to find
where he got his info.
The labor in compiling these notes boggles the mind. It is no wonder that
the whole thing took him a couple of decades to write. I have worked
professionally with annotated historical texts for over two decades and I
can't name another work on recent American history sourced with such
detail and accuracy. Can you?
I use it as an encyclopedia of the JFK assassination; it is the quickest,
most reliable general reference on the subject that I know of.
Great! Then you can tell me exactly what that "Price exhibit" is that
Bugliosi referenced. Is it some HSCA document?
https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/pdf/WH21_Price_Ex_2-35.pdf
You need to scroll down to page roughly 105 of the documents (page 254 in
the originals).
This has a series of accounts by witnesses as to events at Parkland.
The Price exhibit doesn't give consistent times. many people say things
like "about 12:30." But on page 153 0f the document it says, "The
President arrived in the Emergency Room at exactly 12:43 p.m. in his
limousine." And the "12:43" is crossed out with a "12:38" correction.
Interesting that somebody typed up a time of "exactly 12:43." 12:43 is
also the time given on page 151, I think by Dr. Kemp Clark. The patient
registration sheet in the document states a time of 12:38 for JFK, but
oddly has Connally at 12:40, even though we know Connally was brought in
first. Holcomb, who was with Price, says he heard the sirens at about
12:40. Price said he looked at his watch before he heard the sirens,
thinking of some other issue, but doesn't say how long after that he heard
the sirens. But, then again, he says he looked at his watch when the
casket passed him on the way out to the hearse, and his watch said 2:20 at
that time. All other info I know of says that the hearse left 10 minutes
or so before that.
All of the Official Story information, I'd say, suggests a 12:38 time, but
when somebody types up something that says "exactly 12:43," and then the
guy with the faulty watch-reading skills corrects it to 12:38, that makes
me wonder.
Great to see some real evidence instead of the usual Lone Nutter
propaganda crap, though. Thanks again.
If these powerful people for whatever reason (and I've yet to hear a
reason for it) wanted to get rid of JFK they didn't need to shoot him in
broad daylight with hundreds of people around, many with cameras, to do
so.
This entire conspiracy claim about having to get rid of him because he
somehow threatened the real cabal that runs the country is absurd. It's
worse than absurd: it's false.
You hate the world. Fine. Hate it. But don't use this event to express
your grievances with it.
You can, obviously; it's not my call; but it's a waste of your life.
I should have written: a single, credible agreed upon reason. I've heard
that LBJ wanted to prevent being prosecuted for corruption; Hoover to stop
his retirement; the Pentagon because of Vietnam and on and on and on...

But I've yet to hear a credible (to me) single reason that all of these
powerful groups would agree to commit the greatest act of treason in US
history.
Anthony Marsh
2019-05-09 01:07:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by 1***@mail.com
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by 1***@mail.com
Post by Robert Reynolds
Post by Anthony Marsh
Bugliosi was a professional liar, but his CD is full of original
documents.
This is not correct. The CD for Restoring History includes only Bugliosi's
source and end notes; it has no original or source documents at all. What
these notes do include is things like keys to Bugliosi's original
research, such as citations for his extensive interviews with a vast range
of important figures in the history of the assassination, including people
like Norman Redlich, who gave almost no interviews at all.
Even more important, they include accurate citations of the documentary
record that will help you find the sources he used for the vast majority
of his 1612 page narrative. This means you can search his text, either
chronologically or by subject, then go to the source/end notes to find
where he got his info.
The labor in compiling these notes boggles the mind. It is no wonder that
the whole thing took him a couple of decades to write. I have worked
professionally with annotated historical texts for over two decades and I
can't name another work on recent American history sourced with such
detail and accuracy. Can you?
I use it as an encyclopedia of the JFK assassination; it is the quickest,
most reliable general reference on the subject that I know of.
Great! Then you can tell me exactly what that "Price exhibit" is that
Bugliosi referenced. Is it some HSCA document?
https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/pdf/WH21_Price_Ex_2-35.pdf
You need to scroll down to page roughly 105 of the documents (page 254 in
the originals).
This has a series of accounts by witnesses as to events at Parkland.
The Price exhibit doesn't give consistent times. many people say things
like "about 12:30." But on page 153 0f the document it says, "The
President arrived in the Emergency Room at exactly 12:43 p.m. in his
limousine." And the "12:43" is crossed out with a "12:38" correction.
Interesting that somebody typed up a time of "exactly 12:43." 12:43 is
also the time given on page 151, I think by Dr. Kemp Clark. The patient
registration sheet in the document states a time of 12:38 for JFK, but
oddly has Connally at 12:40, even though we know Connally was brought in
first. Holcomb, who was with Price, says he heard the sirens at about
12:40. Price said he looked at his watch before he heard the sirens,
thinking of some other issue, but doesn't say how long after that he heard
the sirens. But, then again, he says he looked at his watch when the
casket passed him on the way out to the hearse, and his watch said 2:20 at
that time. All other info I know of says that the hearse left 10 minutes
or so before that.
All of the Official Story information, I'd say, suggests a 12:38 time, but
when somebody types up something that says "exactly 12:43," and then the
guy with the faulty watch-reading skills corrects it to 12:38, that makes
me wonder.
Great to see some real evidence instead of the usual Lone Nutter
propaganda crap, though. Thanks again.
If these powerful people for whatever reason (and I've yet to hear a
reason for it) wanted to get rid of JFK they didn't need to shoot him in
broad daylight with hundreds of people around, many with cameras, to do
so.
This entire conspiracy claim about having to get rid of him because he
somehow threatened the real cabal that runs the country is absurd. It's
worse than absurd: it's false.
You hate the world. Fine. Hate it. But don't use this event to express
your grievances with it.
You can, obviously; it's not my call; but it's a waste of your life.
I should have written: a single, credible agreed upon reason. I've heard
that LBJ wanted to prevent being prosecuted for corruption; Hoover to stop
I think you're hinting at the TJX scandal.
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
his retirement; the Pentagon because of Vietnam and on and on and on...
But I've yet to hear a credible (to me) single reason that all of these
powerful groups would agree to commit the greatest act of treason in US
history.
Deth2Uall Asouls
2019-05-09 01:14:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by 1***@mail.com
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by 1***@mail.com
Post by Robert Reynolds
Post by Anthony Marsh
Bugliosi was a professional liar, but his CD is full of original
documents.
This is not correct. The CD for Restoring History includes only Bugliosi's
source and end notes; it has no original or source documents at all. What
these notes do include is things like keys to Bugliosi's original
research, such as citations for his extensive interviews with a vast range
of important figures in the history of the assassination, including people
like Norman Redlich, who gave almost no interviews at all.
Even more important, they include accurate citations of the documentary
record that will help you find the sources he used for the vast majority
of his 1612 page narrative. This means you can search his text, either
chronologically or by subject, then go to the source/end notes to find
where he got his info.
The labor in compiling these notes boggles the mind. It is no wonder that
the whole thing took him a couple of decades to write. I have worked
professionally with annotated historical texts for over two decades and I
can't name another work on recent American history sourced with such
detail and accuracy. Can you?
I use it as an encyclopedia of the JFK assassination; it is the quickest,
most reliable general reference on the subject that I know of.
Great! Then you can tell me exactly what that "Price exhibit" is that
Bugliosi referenced. Is it some HSCA document?
https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/pdf/WH21_Price_Ex_2-35.pdf
You need to scroll down to page roughly 105 of the documents (page 254 in
the originals).
This has a series of accounts by witnesses as to events at Parkland.
The Price exhibit doesn't give consistent times. many people say things
like "about 12:30." But on page 153 0f the document it says, "The
President arrived in the Emergency Room at exactly 12:43 p.m. in his
limousine." And the "12:43" is crossed out with a "12:38" correction.
Interesting that somebody typed up a time of "exactly 12:43." 12:43 is
also the time given on page 151, I think by Dr. Kemp Clark. The patient
registration sheet in the document states a time of 12:38 for JFK, but
oddly has Connally at 12:40, even though we know Connally was brought in
first. Holcomb, who was with Price, says he heard the sirens at about
12:40. Price said he looked at his watch before he heard the sirens,
thinking of some other issue, but doesn't say how long after that he heard
the sirens. But, then again, he says he looked at his watch when the
casket passed him on the way out to the hearse, and his watch said 2:20 at
that time. All other info I know of says that the hearse left 10 minutes
or so before that.
All of the Official Story information, I'd say, suggests a 12:38 time, but
when somebody types up something that says "exactly 12:43," and then the
guy with the faulty watch-reading skills corrects it to 12:38, that makes
me wonder.
Great to see some real evidence instead of the usual Lone Nutter
propaganda crap, though. Thanks again.
If these powerful people for whatever reason (and I've yet to hear a
reason for it) wanted to get rid of JFK they didn't need to shoot him in
broad daylight with hundreds of people around, many with cameras, to do
so.
This entire conspiracy claim about having to get rid of him because he
somehow threatened the real cabal that runs the country is absurd. It's
worse than absurd: it's false.
You hate the world. Fine. Hate it. But don't use this event to express
your grievances with it.
You can, obviously; it's not my call; but it's a waste of your life.
I should have written: a single, credible agreed upon reason. I've heard
that LBJ wanted to prevent being prosecuted for corruption; Hoover to stop
his retirement; the Pentagon because of Vietnam and on and on and on...
But I've yet to hear a credible (to me) single reason that all of these
powerful groups would agree to commit the greatest act of treason in US
history.
"A single credible agreed upon reason." That's quite a bias you have
there. In order for the JFK assassination to have been a conspiracy, there
needs to be a SINGLE reason that we all agree on? Different people can
have different reasons for doing things, and other people will always
disagree about why they did so. Instead of focusing on motivations, I
simply go to where the evidence leads me. Even if I know exactly what
happened, I can still only speculate about motivations. But, your ploy is
to focus on motivations in order to avoid the implications of the
evidence. You want to force me to speculate so that you can shoot down my
speculation as "speculation," which of course it must be, when talking
about motivations.

This document that you yourself provided here states that JFK arrived at
Parkland at 12:43, and at "exactly" 12:43, even if a different person
"corrected" it to 12:38. Once I address this evidence, you simply shift
the discussion to motivations. I would not build an entire case on the
Parkland times, but it is another piece of evidence that you just run away
from, even though YOU provided it. Amazing!
Anthony Marsh
2019-05-10 02:20:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Deth2Uall Asouls
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by 1***@mail.com
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by 1***@mail.com
Post by Robert Reynolds
Post by Anthony Marsh
Bugliosi was a professional liar, but his CD is full of original
documents.
This is not correct. The CD for Restoring History includes only Bugliosi's
source and end notes; it has no original or source documents at all. What
these notes do include is things like keys to Bugliosi's original
research, such as citations for his extensive interviews with a vast range
of important figures in the history of the assassination, including people
like Norman Redlich, who gave almost no interviews at all.
Even more important, they include accurate citations of the documentary
record that will help you find the sources he used for the vast majority
of his 1612 page narrative. This means you can search his text, either
chronologically or by subject, then go to the source/end notes to find
where he got his info.
The labor in compiling these notes boggles the mind. It is no wonder that
the whole thing took him a couple of decades to write. I have worked
professionally with annotated historical texts for over two decades and I
can't name another work on recent American history sourced with such
detail and accuracy. Can you?
I use it as an encyclopedia of the JFK assassination; it is the quickest,
most reliable general reference on the subject that I know of.
Great! Then you can tell me exactly what that "Price exhibit" is that
Bugliosi referenced. Is it some HSCA document?
https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/pdf/WH21_Price_Ex_2-35.pdf
You need to scroll down to page roughly 105 of the documents (page 254 in
the originals).
This has a series of accounts by witnesses as to events at Parkland.
The Price exhibit doesn't give consistent times. many people say things
like "about 12:30." But on page 153 0f the document it says, "The
President arrived in the Emergency Room at exactly 12:43 p.m. in his
limousine." And the "12:43" is crossed out with a "12:38" correction.
Interesting that somebody typed up a time of "exactly 12:43." 12:43 is
also the time given on page 151, I think by Dr. Kemp Clark. The patient
registration sheet in the document states a time of 12:38 for JFK, but
oddly has Connally at 12:40, even though we know Connally was brought in
first. Holcomb, who was with Price, says he heard the sirens at about
12:40. Price said he looked at his watch before he heard the sirens,
thinking of some other issue, but doesn't say how long after that he heard
the sirens. But, then again, he says he looked at his watch when the
casket passed him on the way out to the hearse, and his watch said 2:20 at
that time. All other info I know of says that the hearse left 10 minutes
or so before that.
All of the Official Story information, I'd say, suggests a 12:38 time, but
when somebody types up something that says "exactly 12:43," and then the
guy with the faulty watch-reading skills corrects it to 12:38, that makes
me wonder.
Great to see some real evidence instead of the usual Lone Nutter
propaganda crap, though. Thanks again.
If these powerful people for whatever reason (and I've yet to hear a
reason for it) wanted to get rid of JFK they didn't need to shoot him in
broad daylight with hundreds of people around, many with cameras, to do
so.
This entire conspiracy claim about having to get rid of him because he
somehow threatened the real cabal that runs the country is absurd. It's
worse than absurd: it's false.
You hate the world. Fine. Hate it. But don't use this event to express
your grievances with it.
You can, obviously; it's not my call; but it's a waste of your life.
I should have written: a single, credible agreed upon reason. I've heard
that LBJ wanted to prevent being prosecuted for corruption; Hoover to stop
his retirement; the Pentagon because of Vietnam and on and on and on...
But I've yet to hear a credible (to me) single reason that all of these
powerful groups would agree to commit the greatest act of treason in US
history.
"A single credible agreed upon reason." That's quite a bias you have
there. In order for the JFK assassination to have been a conspiracy, there
needs to be a SINGLE reason that we all agree on? Different people can
have different reasons for doing things, and other people will always
disagree about why they did so. Instead of focusing on motivations, I
simply go to where the evidence leads me. Even if I know exactly what
happened, I can still only speculate about motivations. But, your ploy is
to focus on motivations in order to avoid the implications of the
evidence. You want to force me to speculate so that you can shoot down my
speculation as "speculation," which of course it must be, when talking
about motivations.
This document that you yourself provided here states that JFK arrived at
Parkland at 12:43, and at "exactly" 12:43, even if a different person
"corrected" it to 12:38. Once I address this evidence, you simply shift
the discussion to motivations. I would not build an entire case on the
Parkland times, but it is another piece of evidence that you just run away
from, even though YOU provided it. Amazing!
Is your newest alias suggesting that you want to commit suicide?
Deth2Uall Asouls
2019-05-11 01:23:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Deth2Uall Asouls
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by 1***@mail.com
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by 1***@mail.com
Post by Robert Reynolds
Post by Anthony Marsh
Bugliosi was a professional liar, but his CD is full of original
documents.
This is not correct. The CD for Restoring History includes only Bugliosi's
source and end notes; it has no original or source documents at all. What
these notes do include is things like keys to Bugliosi's original
research, such as citations for his extensive interviews with a vast range
of important figures in the history of the assassination, including people
like Norman Redlich, who gave almost no interviews at all.
Even more important, they include accurate citations of the documentary
record that will help you find the sources he used for the vast majority
of his 1612 page narrative. This means you can search his text, either
chronologically or by subject, then go to the source/end notes to find
where he got his info.
The labor in compiling these notes boggles the mind. It is no wonder that
the whole thing took him a couple of decades to write. I have worked
professionally with annotated historical texts for over two decades and I
can't name another work on recent American history sourced with such
detail and accuracy. Can you?
I use it as an encyclopedia of the JFK assassination; it is the quickest,
most reliable general reference on the subject that I know of.
Great! Then you can tell me exactly what that "Price exhibit" is that
Bugliosi referenced. Is it some HSCA document?
https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/pdf/WH21_Price_Ex_2-35.pdf
You need to scroll down to page roughly 105 of the documents (page 254 in
the originals).
This has a series of accounts by witnesses as to events at Parkland.
The Price exhibit doesn't give consistent times. many people say things
like "about 12:30." But on page 153 0f the document it says, "The
President arrived in the Emergency Room at exactly 12:43 p.m. in his
limousine." And the "12:43" is crossed out with a "12:38" correction.
Interesting that somebody typed up a time of "exactly 12:43." 12:43 is
also the time given on page 151, I think by Dr. Kemp Clark. The patient
registration sheet in the document states a time of 12:38 for JFK, but
oddly has Connally at 12:40, even though we know Connally was brought in
first. Holcomb, who was with Price, says he heard the sirens at about
12:40. Price said he looked at his watch before he heard the sirens,
thinking of some other issue, but doesn't say how long after that he heard
the sirens. But, then again, he says he looked at his watch when the
casket passed him on the way out to the hearse, and his watch said 2:20 at
that time. All other info I know of says that the hearse left 10 minutes
or so before that.
All of the Official Story information, I'd say, suggests a 12:38 time, but
when somebody types up something that says "exactly 12:43," and then the
guy with the faulty watch-reading skills corrects it to 12:38, that makes
me wonder.
Great to see some real evidence instead of the usual Lone Nutter
propaganda crap, though. Thanks again.
If these powerful people for whatever reason (and I've yet to hear a
reason for it) wanted to get rid of JFK they didn't need to shoot him in
broad daylight with hundreds of people around, many with cameras, to do
so.
This entire conspiracy claim about having to get rid of him because he
somehow threatened the real cabal that runs the country is absurd. It's
worse than absurd: it's false.
You hate the world. Fine. Hate it. But don't use this event to express
your grievances with it.
You can, obviously; it's not my call; but it's a waste of your life.
I should have written: a single, credible agreed upon reason. I've heard
that LBJ wanted to prevent being prosecuted for corruption; Hoover to stop
his retirement; the Pentagon because of Vietnam and on and on and on...
But I've yet to hear a credible (to me) single reason that all of these
powerful groups would agree to commit the greatest act of treason in US
history.
"A single credible agreed upon reason." That's quite a bias you have
there. In order for the JFK assassination to have been a conspiracy, there
needs to be a SINGLE reason that we all agree on? Different people can
have different reasons for doing things, and other people will always
disagree about why they did so. Instead of focusing on motivations, I
simply go to where the evidence leads me. Even if I know exactly what
happened, I can still only speculate about motivations. But, your ploy is
to focus on motivations in order to avoid the implications of the
evidence. You want to force me to speculate so that you can shoot down my
speculation as "speculation," which of course it must be, when talking
about motivations.
This document that you yourself provided here states that JFK arrived at
Parkland at 12:43, and at "exactly" 12:43, even if a different person
"corrected" it to 12:38. Once I address this evidence, you simply shift
the discussion to motivations. I would not build an entire case on the
Parkland times, but it is another piece of evidence that you just run away
from, even though YOU provided it. Amazing!
Is your newest alias suggesting that you want to commit suicide?
YouTube. The name was made for YouTube. I don't know why it has suddenly
decided to show up here. Of course, you misapprehend the meaning, as you
do with everything. I'll see if they let me change the name so that you
can go back to misunderstanding the JFK assassination.
Anthony Marsh
2019-05-04 20:14:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by 1***@mail.com
Post by Robert Reynolds
Post by Anthony Marsh
Bugliosi was a professional liar, but his CD is full of original
documents.
This is not correct. The CD for Restoring History includes only Bugliosi's
source and end notes; it has no original or source documents at all. What
these notes do include is things like keys to Bugliosi's original
research, such as citations for his extensive interviews with a vast range
of important figures in the history of the assassination, including people
like Norman Redlich, who gave almost no interviews at all.
Even more important, they include accurate citations of the documentary
record that will help you find the sources he used for the vast majority
of his 1612 page narrative. This means you can search his text, either
PAGE 1612 IS the last page of his index.
Post by 1***@mail.com
Post by Robert Reynolds
chronologically or by subject, then go to the source/end notes to find
where he got his info.
The labor in compiling these notes boggles the mind. It is no wonder that
the whole thing took him a couple of decades to write. I have worked
professionally with annotated historical texts for over two decades and I
can't name another work on recent American history sourced with such
detail and accuracy. Can you?
I use it as an encyclopedia of the JFK assassination; it is the quickest,
most reliable general reference on the subject that I know of.
Great! Then you can tell me exactly what that "Price exhibit" is that
Bugliosi referenced. Is it some HSCA document?
I doubt it. Price is WC. I would not just refer to it as the Price
exhibit, because there may be 2 posible Prices or two possible exhibits.
It must refer back to some CE being discussed.


For example, it could be this one about allegedly seeing Oswald at the
gun range:

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh26/html/WH_Vol26_0208a.htm
GKnoll
2019-05-04 03:29:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert Reynolds
Post by Anthony Marsh
Bugliosi was a professional liar, but his CD is full of original
documents.
This is not correct. The CD for Restoring History includes only Bugliosi's
source and end notes; it has no original or source documents at all. What
these notes do include is things like keys to Bugliosi's original
research, such as citations for his extensive interviews with a vast range
of important figures in the history of the assassination, including people
like Norman Redlich, who gave almost no interviews at all.
Even more important, they include accurate citations of the documentary
record that will help you find the sources he used for the vast majority
of his 1612 page narrative. This means you can search his text, either
chronologically or by subject, then go to the source/end notes to find
where he got his info.
The labor in compiling these notes boggles the mind. It is no wonder that
the whole thing took him a couple of decades to write. I have worked
professionally with annotated historical texts for over two decades and I
can't name another work on recent American history sourced with such
detail and accuracy. Can you?
I use it as an encyclopedia of the JFK assassination; it is the quickest,
most reliable general reference on the subject that I know of.
search for the word "Israel" in the his book, and please tell me what
you come up with.
r***@gmail.com
2019-04-30 00:50:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert Reynolds
As Bugliosi notes (RH p. 53), Parkland did not have much prep time before
the arrival of the motorcade. This can be seen in Nursing supervisor Doris
At approximately 12:00 Noon I returned from lunch and proceeded to check
the various areas in the Emergency Room. At approximately 12:33 P.M., I
answered the phone which was ringing in the Major Surgery Nurses Station.
Mrs. Bartlett, the telephone operator, informed me that the President had
been shot, and was being brought to the hospital. I told her to "stop
kidding me." She said "I am not. I have the police dispatcher on the
line." I thanked her and immediately hung up the phone.
I asked Dr Dulaney, the Surgery Resident, to come into Trauma Room #1, and
that I wished to talk with him because I did not wish to alert everyone
which might have caused general pandemonium in the Emergency Room. I
informed Mrs Standridge, and she told me that Room #1 was set up so I
proceeded into Room #2 and had opened one bottle of Ringer's Lactate when
I heard someone call for carriages.
Seconds later Governor Connally was brought into Room #2. I opened his
shirt and saw that he had received a gunshot wound of the chest. Mrs.
Standridge was in the room assisting the doctor so as I walked out of the
room to check on the President he was wheeled into Trauma Room #1.
The Price exhibit, which consists of statements from Parkland staff
"concerning the treatment of President Kennedy and Governor Connally,"
gives at least a half dozen different estimates of Kennedy and Connally's
arrival time, from 12:30 to 1:00 pm. Kellerman was the only one who says
he checked the time.
I don't know what the Price exhibit is, which Bugliosi refers to, but in
her Warren Commission testimony, Doris Nelson said:

Mrs. NELSON - I received a phone call approximately 3 to 5 minutes prior
to their arrival, from the telephone operator, stating that the President
had been shot and was being brought to the emergency room.

So, if Nelson said she got the call at "approximately" 12:33, that
probably means very close to 12:33. So, putting these two statements
together, that would make the president's arrival time between 12:36 and
12:38.
GKnoll
2019-04-27 01:26:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robert Reynolds
Parkland has a page on the role it played in the the JFK assassination at
https://www.parklandhospital.com/kennedy-connection
Documents include the letter you found
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Kennedy/Hospital-Highlights-12-9-63.pdf)
and a longer article from a special edition of Hospital Highlights
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Kennedy/1894-into-the-Future-Chapter-five.pdf)
The second reference clarifies that JFK was logged into Parkland at 12:38,
so this is not necessarily the very instant JFK arrived at Parkland.
VB also cites Kellerman's testimony at 2 H 80. Kellerman called Gerald
Behn after leaving trauma room one. They both marked down the time, with
Kellerman marking 12:38 and Behn 12:41. Regardless of which was correct,
according to Kellerman's testimony this phone call was three to five
minutes after they arrived at Parkland.
I know from other evidence that the first few motorcade cars arrived at
Parkland between 12:34 and 12:35.
r***@gmail.com
2019-04-27 22:07:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by GKnoll
Post by Robert Reynolds
Parkland has a page on the role it played in the the JFK assassination at
https://www.parklandhospital.com/kennedy-connection
Documents include the letter you found
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Kennedy/Hospital-Highlights-12-9-63.pdf)
and a longer article from a special edition of Hospital Highlights
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Kennedy/1894-into-the-Future-Chapter-five.pdf)
The second reference clarifies that JFK was logged into Parkland at 12:38,
so this is not necessarily the very instant JFK arrived at Parkland.
VB also cites Kellerman's testimony at 2 H 80. Kellerman called Gerald
Behn after leaving trauma room one. They both marked down the time, with
Kellerman marking 12:38 and Behn 12:41. Regardless of which was correct,
according to Kellerman's testimony this phone call was three to five
minutes after they arrived at Parkland.
I know from other evidence that the first few motorcade cars arrived at
Parkland between 12:34 and 12:35.
Do you know that the presidential car was one of them?
GKnoll
2019-04-28 17:47:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by GKnoll
Post by Robert Reynolds
Parkland has a page on the role it played in the the JFK assassination at
https://www.parklandhospital.com/kennedy-connection
Documents include the letter you found
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Kennedy/Hospital-Highlights-12-9-63.pdf)
and a longer article from a special edition of Hospital Highlights
(https://www.parklandhospital.com/Uploads/Public/Documents/PDFs/Kennedy/1894-into-the-Future-Chapter-five.pdf)
The second reference clarifies that JFK was logged into Parkland at 12:38,
so this is not necessarily the very instant JFK arrived at Parkland.
VB also cites Kellerman's testimony at 2 H 80. Kellerman called Gerald
Behn after leaving trauma room one. They both marked down the time, with
Kellerman marking 12:38 and Behn 12:41. Regardless of which was correct,
according to Kellerman's testimony this phone call was three to five
minutes after they arrived at Parkland.
I know from other evidence that the first few motorcade cars arrived at
Parkland between 12:34 and 12:35.
Do you know that the presidential car was one of them?
It all depends on whether the car Bowles was in, got back ahead of the
limo. The last time we see his car, it is behind the limo. The car
Bowles was riding in got to Parkland between 12:34 and 12:35 Channel 2
Dispatcher time. If the limo was always in the lead, then it may have
gotten there a bit earlier.
r***@gmail.com
2019-04-28 00:38:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by GKnoll
What time did JFK arrive at Parkland? And please provide a source.
Thanks in advance
This article says it was 12:38
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2011/08/we-were-not-found-wanting.html
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipNu1sT__XLzXNPjeCuCrGAHZUNBfrOBffqLWdVp

The Miller photo above shows the presidential car on Stemmons, apparently
going rather slowly. I say so because the car and the background are both
relatively sharp. If the car were going fast, and the photographer were
panning with the car's motion, then the background would be blurred while
the car would be sharp. If the photographer were not panning, then the car
would be blurred against a sharp background. And the fact that Clint is
not bracing himself against the car's motion, but just leaning his left
hand on the side of the car, and that the front motorcyclist is turned
looking at the car, implies a less than normal highway speed. Yet, they
are on the Stemmons Freeway, so you'd think that either the car or the
background should be blurred, as we get with the other Stemmons photos. It
looks like they slowed down here, and maybe that's why the 3 minute ride
to Parkland took 7 minutes.
GKnoll
2019-05-10 02:14:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by GKnoll
What time did JFK arrive at Parkland? And please provide a source.
Thanks in advance
This article says it was 12:38
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2011/08/we-were-not-found-wanting.html
At 12:32 on Channel 2, the Dispatcher says that "Parkland has been
notified, 12:32"

Therefore, we know that at 12:32 Channel 2 time, Parkland had been
notified.
Deth2Uall Asouls
2019-05-11 01:08:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by GKnoll
Post by GKnoll
What time did JFK arrive at Parkland? And please provide a source.
Thanks in advance
This article says it was 12:38
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2011/08/we-were-not-found-wanting.html
At 12:32 on Channel 2, the Dispatcher says that "Parkland has been
notified, 12:32"
Therefore, we know that at 12:32 Channel 2 time, Parkland had been
notified
We don't know that Parkland had been notified at 12:32 just because the
dispatcher said so. Remember, this was a conspiracy.
Anthony Marsh
2019-05-11 19:31:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by GKnoll
Post by GKnoll
What time did JFK arrive at Parkland? And please provide a source.
Thanks in advance
This article says it was 12:38
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2011/08/we-were-not-found-wanting.html
At 12:32 on Channel 2, the Dispatcher says that "Parkland has been
notified, 12:32"
Therefore, we know that at 12:32 Channel 2 time, Parkland had been
notified.
Close enough for a WC defender.
GKnoll
2019-05-13 23:36:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by GKnoll
What time did JFK arrive at Parkland? And please provide a source.
Thanks in advance
This article says it was 12:38
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2011/08/we-were-not-found-wanting.html
I think I know almost exactly how long it took to get from Dealey Plaza
to Parkland. Three minutes and 15 seconds.
GKnoll
2019-05-14 03:13:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by GKnoll
What time did JFK arrive at Parkland? And please provide a source.
Thanks in advance
This article says it was 12:38
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2011/08/we-were-not-found-wanting.html
Using google maps, I estimate it was about 2 miles from Dealey Plaza to
Parkland.

The roads were clear and blocked off all the way to the Trade Mart
because the Trade Mart was the original destination for the President.
However, from the Trade Mart to Parkland was not cleared and the roads
were not blocked off.

If it took 3 minutes to go 2 miles that is an average of 40 mph. Lets
say I am off by a mile, it was 3 miles to Parkland. That raises the
average speed to 60 mph.
Steve M. Galbraith
2019-05-15 01:31:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by GKnoll
Post by GKnoll
What time did JFK arrive at Parkland? And please provide a source.
Thanks in advance
This article says it was 12:38
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2011/08/we-were-not-found-wanting.html
Using google maps, I estimate it was about 2 miles from Dealey Plaza to
Parkland.
The roads were clear and blocked off all the way to the Trade Mart
because the Trade Mart was the original destination for the President.
However, from the Trade Mart to Parkland was not cleared and the roads
were not blocked off.
If it took 3 minutes to go 2 miles that is an average of 40 mph. Lets
say I am off by a mile, it was 3 miles to Parkland. That raises the
average speed to 60 mph.
Using google map/directions (Elm Street to Parkland Hospital using
Stemmons) I get the distance as 5.7 miles. Using mapquest I get a distance
of about 7 miles. Using Rand McNally I also get about 7 miles.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Elm+St,+Dallas,+TX/Parkland+Memorial+Hospital,+Harry+Hines+Boulevard,+Dallas,+TX/@32.7967396,-96.8307713,14z/am=t/data=!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x864e98dc05ab3f79:0xde9cac763eb2a749!2m2!1d-96.786546!2d32.784097!1m5!1m1!1s0x864e9d6e554aa13b:0x7b445610d5c35eae!2m2!1d-96.8353245!2d32.8127674

Several of the motorcycle officers who led/accompanied the limo, e.g.,
Ellis and Lumpkin, said they didn't check to see what their speed was but
estimated it was over 60 m.p.h. They also said that the limo was right on
their bumpers and they worried that if they slowed they might be hit. This
was especially worrisome when they approached the hospital and had to slow
to make a turn.

From their account there is nothing indicating that the limo slowed down
during the rush to the hospital.
GKnoll
2019-05-16 00:11:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by GKnoll
Post by GKnoll
What time did JFK arrive at Parkland? And please provide a source.
Thanks in advance
This article says it was 12:38
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2011/08/we-were-not-found-wanting.html
Using google maps, I estimate it was about 2 miles from Dealey Plaza to
Parkland.
The roads were clear and blocked off all the way to the Trade Mart
because the Trade Mart was the original destination for the President.
However, from the Trade Mart to Parkland was not cleared and the roads
were not blocked off.
If it took 3 minutes to go 2 miles that is an average of 40 mph. Lets
say I am off by a mile, it was 3 miles to Parkland. That raises the
average speed to 60 mph.
Using google map/directions (Elm Street to Parkland Hospital using
Stemmons) I get the distance as 5.7 miles. Using mapquest I get a distance
of about 7 miles. Using Rand McNally I also get about 7 miles.
Several of the motorcycle officers who led/accompanied the limo, e.g.,
Ellis and Lumpkin, said they didn't check to see what their speed was but
estimated it was over 60 m.p.h. They also said that the limo was right on
their bumpers and they worried that if they slowed they might be hit. This
was especially worrisome when they approached the hospital and had to slow
to make a turn.
From their account there is nothing indicating that the limo slowed down
during the rush to the hospital.
I think you need to redo your map.

There is a much shorter route from Dealey Plaza to Parkland. That entire
dogleg through Bryan Place is out of the way. . You started in the wrong
place on Elm Street.

If you look at the map scale ( 2000 ft ), you can eyeball the distance
on Stemmons to Parkland Exit, is only about 10,000 ft (thats 2 miles)
Steve M. Galbraith
2019-05-17 00:33:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by GKnoll
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by GKnoll
Post by GKnoll
What time did JFK arrive at Parkland? And please provide a source.
Thanks in advance
This article says it was 12:38
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2011/08/we-were-not-found-wanting.html
Using google maps, I estimate it was about 2 miles from Dealey Plaza to
Parkland.
The roads were clear and blocked off all the way to the Trade Mart
because the Trade Mart was the original destination for the President.
However, from the Trade Mart to Parkland was not cleared and the roads
were not blocked off.
If it took 3 minutes to go 2 miles that is an average of 40 mph. Lets
say I am off by a mile, it was 3 miles to Parkland. That raises the
average speed to 60 mph.
Using google map/directions (Elm Street to Parkland Hospital using
Stemmons) I get the distance as 5.7 miles. Using mapquest I get a distance
of about 7 miles. Using Rand McNally I also get about 7 miles.
Several of the motorcycle officers who led/accompanied the limo, e.g.,
Ellis and Lumpkin, said they didn't check to see what their speed was but
estimated it was over 60 m.p.h. They also said that the limo was right on
their bumpers and they worried that if they slowed they might be hit. This
was especially worrisome when they approached the hospital and had to slow
to make a turn.
From their account there is nothing indicating that the limo slowed down
during the rush to the hospital.
I think you need to redo your map.
There is a much shorter route from Dealey Plaza to Parkland. That entire
dogleg through Bryan Place is out of the way. . You started in the wrong
place on Elm Street.
If you look at the map scale ( 2000 ft ), you can eyeball the distance
on Stemmons to Parkland Exit, is only about 10,000 ft (thats 2 miles)
Sorry, how can one use a "shorter route"? You have to use the route they
used. Parkland is at 5201 Harry Hines Blvd. I assume that is the ER
entrance.

I used a general Elm Street to Parkland destination via the Stemmons
freeway. Stemmons is I35E, correct? Elm Street is not that long; even if I
started at the end of it - right under the triple underpass - instead of
the middle/end of it how much difference is that? 100 yards?

I don't see how one can get less than three miles as being the distance
they traveled.

In any case, the evidence is persuasive to me that the limo did not slow
down. The accompanying motorcycle officers, e.g., Ellis, Lumpkins et al.,
describe the journey as very fast and with the limo right behind them; in
fact too close. Nothing in their accounts indicates that the limo slowed
while they went ahead and then had to wait for it to catch up.
19efppp
2019-05-16 00:12:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by GKnoll
Post by GKnoll
What time did JFK arrive at Parkland? And please provide a source.
Thanks in advance
This article says it was 12:38
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2011/08/we-were-not-found-wanting.html
Using google maps, I estimate it was about 2 miles from Dealey Plaza to
Parkland.
The roads were clear and blocked off all the way to the Trade Mart
because the Trade Mart was the original destination for the President.
However, from the Trade Mart to Parkland was not cleared and the roads
were not blocked off.
If it took 3 minutes to go 2 miles that is an average of 40 mph. Lets
say I am off by a mile, it was 3 miles to Parkland. That raises the
average speed to 60 mph.
Using google map/directions (Elm Street to Parkland Hospital using
Stemmons) I get the distance as 5.7 miles. Using mapquest I get a distance
of about 7 miles. Using Rand McNally I also get about 7 miles.
Several of the motorcycle officers who led/accompanied the limo, e.g.,
Ellis and Lumpkin, said they didn't check to see what their speed was but
estimated it was over 60 m.p.h. They also said that the limo was right on
their bumpers and they worried that if they slowed they might be hit. This
was especially worrisome when they approached the hospital and had to slow
to make a turn.
From their account there is nothing indicating that the limo slowed down
during the rush to the hospital.
But your Elm Street location is much further east than Dealy Plaza. If you
enter Dealey Plaza instead of "Elm Street," you get a 4 mile route, which
they estimate at 9 minutes, using a slightly different route than taken by
JFK's limo. The time estimate is based upon average traffic conditions.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Dealey+Plaza,+Dallas,+TX+75202/Parkland+Memorial+Hospital,+Harry+Hines+Boulevard,+Dallas,+TX/@32.7950289,-96.8420167,14z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x864e9915d508f639:0xcfa47bf25b709fe0!2m2!1d-96.8082993!2d32.7788184!1m5!1m1!1s0x864e9d6e554aa13b:0x7b445610d5c35eae!2m2!1d-96.8353245!2d32.8127674

My 3.4 mile figure came from some official document in the record, I don't
recall which one. But, the route they took, Stemmons to Industrial to
Hines, is more direct, so the 3.4 miles is probably correct. Industrial is
now called "Market Center Blvd." Under normal conditions, the Google
suggestion probably takes less time than the route they took with JFK. But
the time estimate given is what you would expect just driving there
yourself, not what you'd expect with an empty highway and a police escort
getting the president to emergency care.

If you do more work, I think you'll find that the 3.4 mile figure is
correct.

You may notice that Marsh has authoritatively declared that the dispatcher
said to moved some trucks out of the way, implying that there was some
traffic somewhere. As one would expect, Marsh has got that wrong. That was
Chief Curry who said that. Perhaps you could hang your Lone Nutter hat on
those trucks, but I think if this had been a significant issue, there
would have been more mention of it in the record. Perhaps you can find
that information and save your case. I haven't seen it.
Mitch Todd
2019-05-16 00:16:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by GKnoll
Post by GKnoll
What time did JFK arrive at Parkland? And please provide a source.
Thanks in advance
This article says it was 12:38
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2011/08/we-were-not-found-wanting.html
Using google maps, I estimate it was about 2 miles from Dealey Plaza to
Parkland.
The roads were clear and blocked off all the way to the Trade Mart
because the Trade Mart was the original destination for the President.
However, from the Trade Mart to Parkland was not cleared and the roads
were not blocked off.
If it took 3 minutes to go 2 miles that is an average of 40 mph. Lets
say I am off by a mile, it was 3 miles to Parkland. That raises the
average speed to 60 mph.
Using google map/directions (Elm Street to Parkland Hospital using
Stemmons) I get the distance as 5.7 miles. Using mapquest I get a distance
of about 7 miles. Using Rand McNally I also get about 7 miles.
Several of the motorcycle officers who led/accompanied the limo, e.g.,
Ellis and Lumpkin, said they didn't check to see what their speed was but
estimated it was over 60 m.p.h. They also said that the limo was right on
their bumpers and they worried that if they slowed they might be hit. This
was especially worrisome when they approached the hospital and had to slow
to make a turn.
From their account there is nothing indicating that the limo slowed down
during the rush to the hospital.
Your link has the motorcade starting out in Deep Ellum, East of
Downtown. The motorcade route was more like this:

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/32.7789419,-96.8087477/Parkland+Memorial+Hospital,+Harry+Hines+Boulevard,+Dallas,+TX/@32.7888167,-96.8214037,14.75z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m5!3m4!1m2!1d-96.831611!2d32.8073525!3s0x864e9eabc56f48ff:0xaf83e6e8998e92f7!1m5!1m1!1s0x864e9d6e554aa13b:0x7b445610d5c35eae!2m2!1d-96.8353245!2d32.8127674!3e0

from Dealey Plaza, up 35E, off on what was Industrial to Harry Hines,
then to Parkland (which was on the West side of Hines at that time).

A couple of notes. First, the ramp from Elm to 35 is a
surprisingly sharp blind curve. Even in a modern car,
it's not the easiest thing to navigate. I can't imagine
Greer tackling the curve at speed in an 8000lb limousine
rolling on skinny bias-ply tires without slowing down
quite a bit. And an 8000lb vehicle isn't exactly going
to make a good dragster.

Second, it's wise to consider the nature of clocks at the
time. In 1963, every watch and clock was either completely
mechanical or electromechanical. Quartz movement wouldn't
hit the market until '67. All but the wealthiest's watches
were prone to losing a minute or two a day, and wall clocks
were little better, if that. Any timepiece was liable to be
as much as 5 minutes off of standard time, and any two
could be as much as 10 minutes apart. Therefore, I'm a
little puzzled as to why everyone keeps arguing about
exactly when some event happened.
John McAdams
2019-05-16 00:19:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mitch Todd
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by GKnoll
Post by GKnoll
What time did JFK arrive at Parkland? And please provide a source.
Thanks in advance
This article says it was 12:38
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2011/08/we-were-not-found-wanting.html
Using google maps, I estimate it was about 2 miles from Dealey Plaza to
Parkland.
The roads were clear and blocked off all the way to the Trade Mart
because the Trade Mart was the original destination for the President.
However, from the Trade Mart to Parkland was not cleared and the roads
were not blocked off.
If it took 3 minutes to go 2 miles that is an average of 40 mph. Lets
say I am off by a mile, it was 3 miles to Parkland. That raises the
average speed to 60 mph.
Using google map/directions (Elm Street to Parkland Hospital using
Stemmons) I get the distance as 5.7 miles. Using mapquest I get a distance
of about 7 miles. Using Rand McNally I also get about 7 miles.
Several of the motorcycle officers who led/accompanied the limo, e.g.,
Ellis and Lumpkin, said they didn't check to see what their speed was but
estimated it was over 60 m.p.h. They also said that the limo was right on
their bumpers and they worried that if they slowed they might be hit. This
was especially worrisome when they approached the hospital and had to slow
to make a turn.
From their account there is nothing indicating that the limo slowed down
during the rush to the hospital.
Your link has the motorcade starting out in Deep Ellum, East of
from Dealey Plaza, up 35E, off on what was Industrial to Harry Hines,
then to Parkland (which was on the West side of Hines at that time).
A couple of notes. First, the ramp from Elm to 35 is a
surprisingly sharp blind curve. Even in a modern car,
it's not the easiest thing to navigate. I can't imagine
Greer tackling the curve at speed in an 8000lb limousine
rolling on skinny bias-ply tires without slowing down
quite a bit. And an 8000lb vehicle isn't exactly going
to make a good dragster.
Second, it's wise to consider the nature of clocks at the
time. In 1963, every watch and clock was either completely
mechanical or electromechanical. Quartz movement wouldn't
hit the market until '67. All but the wealthiest's watches
were prone to losing a minute or two a day, and wall clocks
were little better, if that. Any timepiece was liable to be
as much as 5 minutes off of standard time, and any two
could be as much as 10 minutes apart. Therefore, I'm a
little puzzled as to why everyone keeps arguing about
exactly when some event happened.
My memory is that electric clocks were synchronized to the 60hz power
line, and were quite precise, *if* correctly set to begin with.

But that, of course, didn't protect them from simply being set at the
wrong time.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
19efppp
2019-05-16 20:00:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mitch Todd
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by GKnoll
Post by GKnoll
What time did JFK arrive at Parkland? And please provide a source.
Thanks in advance
This article says it was 12:38
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2011/08/we-were-not-found-wanting.html
Using google maps, I estimate it was about 2 miles from Dealey Plaza to
Parkland.
The roads were clear and blocked off all the way to the Trade Mart
because the Trade Mart was the original destination for the President.
However, from the Trade Mart to Parkland was not cleared and the roads
were not blocked off.
If it took 3 minutes to go 2 miles that is an average of 40 mph. Lets
say I am off by a mile, it was 3 miles to Parkland. That raises the
average speed to 60 mph.
Using google map/directions (Elm Street to Parkland Hospital using
Stemmons) I get the distance as 5.7 miles. Using mapquest I get a distance
of about 7 miles. Using Rand McNally I also get about 7 miles.
Several of the motorcycle officers who led/accompanied the limo, e.g.,
Ellis and Lumpkin, said they didn't check to see what their speed was but
estimated it was over 60 m.p.h. They also said that the limo was right on
their bumpers and they worried that if they slowed they might be hit. This
was especially worrisome when they approached the hospital and had to slow
to make a turn.
From their account there is nothing indicating that the limo slowed down
during the rush to the hospital.
Your link has the motorcade starting out in Deep Ellum, East of
from Dealey Plaza, up 35E, off on what was Industrial to Harry Hines,
then to Parkland (which was on the West side of Hines at that time).
A couple of notes. First, the ramp from Elm to 35 is a
surprisingly sharp blind curve. Even in a modern car,
it's not the easiest thing to navigate. I can't imagine
Greer tackling the curve at speed in an 8000lb limousine
rolling on skinny bias-ply tires without slowing down
quite a bit. And an 8000lb vehicle isn't exactly going
to make a good dragster.
Second, it's wise to consider the nature of clocks at the
time. In 1963, every watch and clock was either completely
mechanical or electromechanical. Quartz movement wouldn't
hit the market until '67. All but the wealthiest's watches
were prone to losing a minute or two a day, and wall clocks
were little better, if that. Any timepiece was liable to be
as much as 5 minutes off of standard time, and any two
could be as much as 10 minutes apart. Therefore, I'm a
little puzzled as to why everyone keeps arguing about
exactly when some event happened.
Good work on the Google route, and it matches the 3.4 miles I quoted from
the record.

Your point about the clocks is relevant, but one should still expect
official times to be fairly accurate. And I mean the times on the DPD
radio, the Parkland hospital times on the record and the ambulance company
times. Even the Hertz sign was within a minute or two of the DPD radio
time, if you accept that James Tague said the Hertz clock said 12:29 when
he looked at it. JFK seems to have been shot in the 12:30 minute by DPD
radio time, and, according to Tague, in the 12:29 minute according to
Hertz time. And William Greer, somebody quoted as giving a time at
Parkland Hospital, had probably set his watch that day. Synchronizing
their watches is something you'd expect from the Secret Service for such
an event, I would think. Not that I think Greer's quoted time is correct.
I just would not blame his watch.

But, relevant to this issue is the synchronization of the DPD radio times
with the official Parkland Hospital times, and presumably that would not
have been done. It would have to rely on both of them being accurate to a
minute or so. The patient registration times would probably qualify as the
official Parkland times, and they imply that JFK or Connally came in at
12:38.

This is why the 12:43 time is important to me. With 12:38, the implication
is a 7-minute ride. But, if you say the DPD time was a minute off one way,
and the Pakland time was a minute off the other way, then you can whittle
the ride time down to 5 minutes. Then you can add a minute for the
stretchers and you get 4 minutes, which is a reasonable amount of time for
the ride. The 12:38 time is thus "credible." But you have to push times
your way to make it fit, so it does not prove a 4-minute ride.

But 12:43 gives way too much time for such fudging, which is why I'm very
interested in who said "exactly 12:43" and why he said that, and why Arlen
Specter didn't ask who said that, and why Dr. Price changed it to 12:38. I
don't think my question will ever be adequately answered, but I find it an
interesting one, given that the Miller photo on the Stemmons Freeway seems
to show the car going rather slowly. I know. Deatails! I'm sure it all
seems very tedious to the Lone Nutter, but being a Conspiracy Kook, I find
these details intriguing.
Steve M. Galbraith
2019-05-17 00:34:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mitch Todd
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by GKnoll
Post by GKnoll
What time did JFK arrive at Parkland? And please provide a source.
Thanks in advance
This article says it was 12:38
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2011/08/we-were-not-found-wanting.html
Using google maps, I estimate it was about 2 miles from Dealey Plaza to
Parkland.
The roads were clear and blocked off all the way to the Trade Mart
because the Trade Mart was the original destination for the President.
However, from the Trade Mart to Parkland was not cleared and the roads
were not blocked off.
If it took 3 minutes to go 2 miles that is an average of 40 mph. Lets
say I am off by a mile, it was 3 miles to Parkland. That raises the
average speed to 60 mph.
Using google map/directions (Elm Street to Parkland Hospital using
Stemmons) I get the distance as 5.7 miles. Using mapquest I get a distance
of about 7 miles. Using Rand McNally I also get about 7 miles.
Several of the motorcycle officers who led/accompanied the limo, e.g.,
Ellis and Lumpkin, said they didn't check to see what their speed was but
estimated it was over 60 m.p.h. They also said that the limo was right on
their bumpers and they worried that if they slowed they might be hit. This
was especially worrisome when they approached the hospital and had to slow
to make a turn.
From their account there is nothing indicating that the limo slowed down
during the rush to the hospital.
Your link has the motorcade starting out in Deep Ellum, East of
from Dealey Plaza, up 35E, off on what was Industrial to Harry Hines,
then to Parkland (which was on the West side of Hines at that time).
A couple of notes. First, the ramp from Elm to 35 is a
surprisingly sharp blind curve. Even in a modern car,
it's not the easiest thing to navigate. I can't imagine
Greer tackling the curve at speed in an 8000lb limousine
rolling on skinny bias-ply tires without slowing down
quite a bit. And an 8000lb vehicle isn't exactly going
to make a good dragster.
Second, it's wise to consider the nature of clocks at the
time. In 1963, every watch and clock was either completely
mechanical or electromechanical. Quartz movement wouldn't
hit the market until '67. All but the wealthiest's watches
were prone to losing a minute or two a day, and wall clocks
were little better, if that. Any timepiece was liable to be
as much as 5 minutes off of standard time, and any two
could be as much as 10 minutes apart. Therefore, I'm a
little puzzled as to why everyone keeps arguing about
exactly when some event happened.
Thanks. Yes, it's less than 4 miles.

As to the argument: well one of the claims is that this indicates that the
limo went too slow for it to arrive at 12:38 or 12:43. If they did rush
from Elm to Parkland then it should have arrived earlier. And that this
later arrival is evidence of some sinister act to ensure that JFK could
not be resuscitated.

The accounts by the officers who accompanied the limo undermines, to me,
that allegation. That is if one accepts their accounts.
Anthony Marsh
2019-05-17 00:38:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mitch Todd
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by GKnoll
Post by GKnoll
What time did JFK arrive at Parkland? And please provide a source.
Thanks in advance
This article says it was 12:38
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2011/08/we-were-not-found-wanting.html
Using google maps, I estimate it was about 2 miles from Dealey Plaza to
Parkland.
The roads were clear and blocked off all the way to the Trade Mart
because the Trade Mart was the original destination for the President.
However, from the Trade Mart to Parkland was not cleared and the roads
were not blocked off.
If it took 3 minutes to go 2 miles that is an average of 40 mph. Lets
say I am off by a mile, it was 3 miles to Parkland. That raises the
average speed to 60 mph.
Using google map/directions (Elm Street to Parkland Hospital using
Stemmons) I get the distance as 5.7 miles. Using mapquest I get a distance
of about 7 miles. Using Rand McNally I also get about 7 miles.
Several of the motorcycle officers who led/accompanied the limo, e.g.,
Ellis and Lumpkin, said they didn't check to see what their speed was but
estimated it was over 60 m.p.h. They also said that the limo was right on
their bumpers and they worried that if they slowed they might be hit. This
was especially worrisome when they approached the hospital and had to slow
to make a turn.
 From their account there is nothing indicating that the limo slowed down
during the rush to the hospital.
Your link has the motorcade starting out in Deep Ellum, East of
from Dealey Plaza, up 35E, off on what was Industrial to Harry Hines,
then to Parkland (which was on the West side of Hines at that time).
A couple of notes. First, the ramp from Elm to 35 is a
surprisingly sharp blind curve. Even in a modern car,
it's not the easiest thing to navigate. I can't imagine
Greer tackling the curve at speed in an 8000lb limousine
rolling on skinny bias-ply tires without slowing down
quite a bit. And an 8000lb vehicle isn't exactly going
to make a good dragster.
Second, it's wise to consider the nature of clocks at the
time. In 1963, every watch and clock was either completely
mechanical or electromechanical. Quartz movement wouldn't
hit the market until '67. All but the wealthiest's  watches
were prone to losing a minute or two a day, and wall clocks
were little better, if that. Any timepiece was liable to be
as much as 5 minutes off of standard time, and any two
could be as much as 10 minutes apart. Therefore, I'm a
little puzzled as to why everyone keeps arguing about
exactly when some event happened.
Well, the DPD knew that the dispatchers clocks could run up to a minute
fast or slow and resynced them often.
Anthony Marsh
2019-05-15 01:37:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by GKnoll
Post by GKnoll
What time did JFK arrive at Parkland? And please provide a source.
Thanks in advance
This article says it was 12:38
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2011/08/we-were-not-found-wanting.html
Using google maps, I estimate it was about 2 miles from Dealey Plaza to
Parkland.
The roads were clear and blocked off all the way to the Trade Mart
Except for one spot where there we trucks in the way and the dispatcher
came on the radio to tell them to move the trucks out of the way. Did your
old map show you that Parkland Hospital was not tight next to the Trade
Mart?

I don't know if Google maps would tell you the exact distance, but such
nnitpicking is silly.
Post by GKnoll
because the Trade Mart was the original destination for the President.
However, from the Trade Mart to Parkland was not cleared and the roads
were not blocked off.
If it took 3 minutes to go 2 miles that is an average of 40 mph. Lets
say I am off by a mile, it was 3 miles to Parkland. That raises the
average speed to 60 mph.
I don't think they said AVERAGE of 60 MPH. I think they said REACHING
speeds of up to 60 MPH.
19efppp
2019-05-16 00:14:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by GKnoll
Post by GKnoll
What time did JFK arrive at Parkland? And please provide a source.
Thanks in advance
This article says it was 12:38
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2011/08/we-were-not-found-wanting.html
Using google maps, I estimate it was about 2 miles from Dealey Plaza to
Parkland.
The roads were clear and blocked off all the way to the Trade Mart
Except for one spot where there we trucks in the way and the dispatcher
came on the radio to tell them to move the trucks out of the way. Did your
old map show you that Parkland Hospital was not tight next to the Trade
Mart?
I don't know if Google maps would tell you the exact distance, but such
nnitpicking is silly.
Post by GKnoll
because the Trade Mart was the original destination for the President.
However, from the Trade Mart to Parkland was not cleared and the roads
were not blocked off.
If it took 3 minutes to go 2 miles that is an average of 40 mph. Lets
say I am off by a mile, it was 3 miles to Parkland. That raises the
average speed to 60 mph.
I don't think they said AVERAGE of 60 MPH. I think they said REACHING
speeds of up to 60 MPH.
Talk about nitpicking! Mr. Science here bases his wacky acoustic evidence
theory entirely on nitpicking. But, like a crazed drug addict, he is
picking at imaginary nits with his "science." At least I have real nits to
pick here. The ride to Parkland took way too long. Why? Marsh doesn't
care. He wants you to trust his buggy "science" instead.
Anthony Marsh
2019-05-17 00:39:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by 19efppp
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by GKnoll
Post by GKnoll
What time did JFK arrive at Parkland? And please provide a source.
Thanks in advance
This article says it was 12:38
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2011/08/we-were-not-found-wanting.html
Using google maps, I estimate it was about 2 miles from Dealey Plaza to
Parkland.
The roads were clear and blocked off all the way to the Trade Mart
Except for one spot where there we trucks in the way and the dispatcher
came on the radio to tell them to move the trucks out of the way. Did your
old map show you that Parkland Hospital was not tight next to the Trade
Mart?
I don't know if Google maps would tell you the exact distance, but such
nnitpicking is silly.
Post by GKnoll
because the Trade Mart was the original destination for the President.
However, from the Trade Mart to Parkland was not cleared and the roads
were not blocked off.
If it took 3 minutes to go 2 miles that is an average of 40 mph. Lets
say I am off by a mile, it was 3 miles to Parkland. That raises the
average speed to 60 mph.
I don't think they said AVERAGE of 60 MPH. I think they said REACHING
speeds of up to 60 MPH.
Talk about nitpicking! Mr. Science here bases his wacky acoustic evidence
theory entirely on nitpicking. But, like a crazed drug addict, he is
picking at imaginary nits with his "science." At least I have real nits to
pick here. The ride to Parkland took way too long. Why? Marsh doesn't
care. He wants you to trust his buggy "science" instead.
There is no need to manufacture some type of conspiracy theory about how
long it took to get to Parkland. Once there it took several minutes to get
JFK into the ER. Are you going to add Jackie to your list of conspirators?
19efppp
2019-05-18 01:10:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by 19efppp
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by GKnoll
Post by GKnoll
What time did JFK arrive at Parkland? And please provide a source.
Thanks in advance
This article says it was 12:38
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2011/08/we-were-not-found-wanting.html
Using google maps, I estimate it was about 2 miles from Dealey Plaza to
Parkland.
The roads were clear and blocked off all the way to the Trade Mart
Except for one spot where there we trucks in the way and the dispatcher
came on the radio to tell them to move the trucks out of the way. Did your
old map show you that Parkland Hospital was not tight next to the Trade
Mart?
I don't know if Google maps would tell you the exact distance, but such
nnitpicking is silly.
Post by GKnoll
because the Trade Mart was the original destination for the President.
However, from the Trade Mart to Parkland was not cleared and the roads
were not blocked off.
If it took 3 minutes to go 2 miles that is an average of 40 mph. Lets
say I am off by a mile, it was 3 miles to Parkland. That raises the
average speed to 60 mph.
I don't think they said AVERAGE of 60 MPH. I think they said REACHING
speeds of up to 60 MPH.
Talk about nitpicking! Mr. Science here bases his wacky acoustic evidence
theory entirely on nitpicking. But, like a crazed drug addict, he is
picking at imaginary nits with his "science." At least I have real nits to
pick here. The ride to Parkland took way too long. Why? Marsh doesn't
care. He wants you to trust his buggy "science" instead.
There is no need to manufacture some type of conspiracy theory about how
long it took to get to Parkland. Once there it took several minutes to get
JFK into the ER. Are you going to add Jackie to your list of conspirators?
"Several minutes" to get the president from the car to the ER? What
scientist told you that? You Lone Nutters will believe ANYTHING! Several
minutes!
Steve M. Galbraith
2019-05-19 01:58:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by 19efppp
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by 19efppp
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by GKnoll
Post by GKnoll
What time did JFK arrive at Parkland? And please provide a source.
Thanks in advance
This article says it was 12:38
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2011/08/we-were-not-found-wanting.html
Using google maps, I estimate it was about 2 miles from Dealey Plaza to
Parkland.
The roads were clear and blocked off all the way to the Trade Mart
Except for one spot where there we trucks in the way and the dispatcher
came on the radio to tell them to move the trucks out of the way. Did your
old map show you that Parkland Hospital was not tight next to the Trade
Mart?
I don't know if Google maps would tell you the exact distance, but such
nnitpicking is silly.
Post by GKnoll
because the Trade Mart was the original destination for the President.
However, from the Trade Mart to Parkland was not cleared and the roads
were not blocked off.
If it took 3 minutes to go 2 miles that is an average of 40 mph. Lets
say I am off by a mile, it was 3 miles to Parkland. That raises the
average speed to 60 mph.
I don't think they said AVERAGE of 60 MPH. I think they said REACHING
speeds of up to 60 MPH.
Talk about nitpicking! Mr. Science here bases his wacky acoustic evidence
theory entirely on nitpicking. But, like a crazed drug addict, he is
picking at imaginary nits with his "science." At least I have real nits to
pick here. The ride to Parkland took way too long. Why? Marsh doesn't
care. He wants you to trust his buggy "science" instead.
There is no need to manufacture some type of conspiracy theory about how
long it took to get to Parkland. Once there it took several minutes to get
JFK into the ER. Are you going to add Jackie to your list of conspirators?
"Several minutes" to get the president from the car to the ER? What
scientist told you that? You Lone Nutters will believe ANYTHING! Several
minutes!
They didn't simply "get the president from the car." After arrival, two
agents had to go in and get two stretchers, bring them out, get Connally
out, get Jackie to give up JFK, put JFK on the stretcher and bring him in.

I do not believe, as you do, that that took "less than a minute."

And Mr. Marsh believes there was a conspiracy behind the assassination of
JFK. If you think he's a "Lone Nutter" then you need to follow things more
closely.
Ace Kefford
2019-05-23 01:09:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by GKnoll
What time did JFK arrive at Parkland? And please provide a source.
Thanks in advance
This article says it was 12:38
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2011/08/we-were-not-found-wanting.html
Too late.

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