Discussion:
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
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claviger
2018-11-14 21:14:36 UTC
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Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?


Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle


6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.


JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano

bigdog
2018-11-15 21:07:07 UTC
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Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
claviger
2018-11-16 18:19:22 UTC
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Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for.
That's all that matters.
It was a 3 shot disposable rifle.
claviger
2018-11-18 21:43:59 UTC
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Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for.
That's all that matters.
It was a 3 shot disposable rifle.
Correction: 4 shot disposable rifle.
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-20 06:18:15 UTC
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Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for.
That's all that matters.
It was a 3 shot disposable rifle.
Correction: 4 shot disposable rifle.
What is your point? Oswald rifle had a clip in it which COULD hold 6
rounds, but only held 4 that day. We think Oswald was down to only 4
rounds by 11/22/63.
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-17 05:51:58 UTC
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Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
No, it wasn't. He couldn't even hit Walker at only 120 feet away. That's
a dead give away that it was a conspiracy.
bigdog
2018-11-18 00:12:49 UTC
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Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
No, it wasn't. He couldn't even hit Walker at only 120 feet away. That's
a dead give away that it was a conspiracy.
He missed JFK with his first shot too. The difference was he got to fire
two more. I bet he would have got Walker if he had three shots.
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-19 15:51:13 UTC
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Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
No, it wasn't. He couldn't even hit Walker at only 120 feet away. That's
a dead give away that it was a conspiracy.
He missed JFK with his first shot too. The difference was he got to fire
Some think the first shot missed, but the WC could not prove that.So
does this make you a conspiracy kook instead of a WC defender?
Post by bigdog
two more. I bet he would have got Walker if he had three shots.
Maybe. But he assumed that he had hit Walker with that one shot and
didn't want to stick around to find out. Did the Church choir stop
singing when they heard the shot?
claviger
2018-11-18 00:17:15 UTC
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Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
No, it wasn't. He couldn't even hit Walker at only 120 feet away. That's
a dead give away that it was a conspiracy.
General Walker said the only thing that saved him was the bullet hit
a frame (muntin) in the window.

Muntin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muntin

General WALKER. He couldn't see from his position any of the lattice work
either in the windows or in the screens because of the light. It would
have looked like one big lighted area, and he could have been a very good
shot and just by chance he hit the woodwork.

Mr. LIEBELER. Which he did in fact?

General WALKER. Which he did, and there was enough deflection in it to
miss me, except for slivers of the bullet, the casing of the bullet that
went into my arm laying on the desk--slivers of the shell jacket.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/walker_e.htm
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-19 15:51:26 UTC
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Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
No, it wasn't. He couldn't even hit Walker at only 120 feet away. That's
a dead give away that it was a conspiracy.
General Walker said the only thing that saved him was the bullet hit
a frame (muntin) in the window.
Muntin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muntin
General WALKER. He couldn't see from his position any of the lattice work
either in the windows or in the screens because of the light. It would
have looked like one big lighted area, and he could have been a very good
shot and just by chance he hit the woodwork.
Not chance. Defect in the rifle AND the shooter.
Post by claviger
Mr. LIEBELER. Which he did in fact?
General WALKER. Which he did, and there was enough deflection in it to
miss me, except for slivers of the bullet, the casing of the bullet that
went into my arm laying on the desk--slivers of the shell jacket.
Which should have been copper, not steel as the detectives thought. Did
they try to recover them using a magnet?
Post by claviger
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/walker_e.htm
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-19 15:52:09 UTC
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Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
No, it wasn't. He couldn't even hit Walker at only 120 feet away. That's
a dead give away that it was a conspiracy.
General Walker said the only thing that saved him was the bullet hit
a frame (muntin) in the window.
No, stop making up crap. Walker didn't know a big word like muntin.
Amd the muntin is inside the margins of the frame.
The bullet it the meeting rails, where the bottom frame of the top
window MEETS the top frame of the bottom window when they are closed.
The bullet grazed it and was deflected. Do you honestly think that
Oswald was aiming at the meeting rails?


Loading Image...
Post by claviger
Muntin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muntin
General WALKER. He couldn't see from his position any of the lattice work
either in the windows or in the screens because of the light. It would
have looked like one big lighted area, and he could have been a very good
shot and just by chance he hit the woodwork.
Mr. LIEBELER. Which he did in fact?
General WALKER. Which he did, and there was enough deflection in it to
miss me, except for slivers of the bullet, the casing of the bullet that
went into my arm laying on the desk--slivers of the shell jacket.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/walker_e.htm
claviger
2018-11-18 14:31:45 UTC
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Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
No, it wasn't. He couldn't even hit Walker at only 120 feet away. That's
a dead give away that it was a conspiracy.
You've worn out that silly excuse.
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-19 15:52:24 UTC
Reply
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Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
No, it wasn't. He couldn't even hit Walker at only 120 feet away. That's
a dead give away that it was a conspiracy.
You've worn out that silly excuse.
No excuse. Fact. Stick to the facts.
Stop making up crap.
claviger
2018-11-20 15:56:58 UTC
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Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
No, it wasn't. He couldn't even hit Walker at only 120 feet away. That's
a dead give away that it was a conspiracy.
You've worn out that silly excuse.
No excuse. Fact. Stick to the facts.
Already been explained by General Walker.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Stop making up crap.
Read what General Walker said.
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-21 14:55:39 UTC
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Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
No, it wasn't. He couldn't even hit Walker at only 120 feet away. That's
a dead give away that it was a conspiracy.
You've worn out that silly excuse.
No excuse. Fact. Stick to the facts.
Already been explained by General Walker.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Stop making up crap.
Read what General Walker said.
I did. He was not an expert on Carcanos.
He was not an expert on windows.
Allan G. Johnson
2018-11-19 02:21:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
No, it wasn't. He couldn't even hit Walker at only 120 feet away. That's
a dead give away that it was a conspiracy.
One missed shot, with no second or third shot taken, proves a
conspiracy? And 2 plus 2 equals 10.
bigdog
2018-11-20 05:45:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
No, it wasn't. He couldn't even hit Walker at only 120 feet away. That's
a dead give away that it was a conspiracy.
One missed shot, with no second or third shot taken, proves a
conspiracy? And 2 plus 2 equals 10.
This presents a fascinating question. Marsh accepts that Oswald was the
one who fired the shot at Walker. Are we to believe that one was a
conspiracy too or should we believe Oswald acted alone in trying to kill
Walker but than became a pawn in a conspiracy to kill JFK?
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-21 14:55:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
No, it wasn't. He couldn't even hit Walker at only 120 feet away. That's
a dead give away that it was a conspiracy.
One missed shot, with no second or third shot taken, proves a
conspiracy? And 2 plus 2 equals 10.
This presents a fascinating question. Marsh accepts that Oswald was the
one who fired the shot at Walker. Are we to believe that one was a
conspiracy too or should we believe Oswald acted alone in trying to kill
Walker but than became a pawn in a conspiracy to kill JFK?
I don't see any conspiracy to kill Walker. Just a lone nut.
I doubt that a CIA hit team would rely on a lone nut like Oswald.
More likely they would frame him to blame the assassination on Castro,
which is exactly what they did.
Steve M. Galbraith
2018-11-26 15:24:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
No, it wasn't. He couldn't even hit Walker at only 120 feet away. That's
a dead give away that it was a conspiracy.
One missed shot, with no second or third shot taken, proves a
conspiracy? And 2 plus 2 equals 10.
This presents a fascinating question. Marsh accepts that Oswald was the
one who fired the shot at Walker. Are we to believe that one was a
conspiracy too or should we believe Oswald acted alone in trying to kill
Walker but than became a pawn in a conspiracy to kill JFK?
I don't see any conspiracy to kill Walker. Just a lone nut.
I doubt that a CIA hit team would rely on a lone nut like Oswald.
More likely they would frame him to blame the assassination on Castro,
which is exactly what they did.
There isn't a shred of evidence that "the CIA" framed Oswald to blame
Castro.

Not a lick of it.
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-27 06:30:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
No, it wasn't. He couldn't even hit Walker at only 120 feet away. That's
a dead give away that it was a conspiracy.
One missed shot, with no second or third shot taken, proves a
conspiracy? And 2 plus 2 equals 10.
This presents a fascinating question. Marsh accepts that Oswald was the
one who fired the shot at Walker. Are we to believe that one was a
conspiracy too or should we believe Oswald acted alone in trying to kill
Walker but than became a pawn in a conspiracy to kill JFK?
I don't see any conspiracy to kill Walker. Just a lone nut.
I doubt that a CIA hit team would rely on a lone nut like Oswald.
More likely they would frame him to blame the assassination on Castro,
which is exactly what they did.
There isn't a shred of evidence that "the CIA" framed Oswald to blame
Castro.
Then you didn't read my article. Do I have to keep posting the whole
thing every day like a Harris just because you are lazy?

http://the-puzzle-palace.com/cubahoax.htm


The Cuba Hoaxes
When President Kennedy was assassinated on November 22, 1963 top US
officials thought that it was a conspiracy. Because of Oswald's defection
to Russia and his support of Fidel Castro, the suspicion was that he was
acting on behalf of Castro or the Russians. This was later reinforced by a
series of hoaxes designed to link Oswald to Castro.
On November 25, 1963 a Nicaraguan intelligence officer sympathetic
to the Cuban exiles named Alvarado Ugarte Gilberto claimed that on
September 18, 1963 he saw a Cuban consulate employee give $6,5000 in cash
to Oswald to assassinate the President. Because his story was so elaborate
and because it fit in with the prevailing suspicions in the intelligence
community it was widely believed to be true. But under intense questioning
by the CIA, Alvarado's story began to unravel. Oswald could not have been
at the Cuban Consulate in Mexico on the day that he allegedly received the
cash, because he was known to have been in New Orleans appplying for
unemployment insurance. And there was no red-headed Negro Cuban
intelligence officer working at the Cuban Consulate in Mexico. Alvarado
admitted that he had made up the story in hopes that the US would be
prompted to invade Cuba in retaliation. The assassination of a head of
state is a casus belli. Another false allegation seemed to confirm
Alvarado's story. A Cuban named Fernando Penabaz claimed that Oswald had
been contacted in Nicaragua by a Cuban intelligence officer. But Penabaz
had no direct knowledge. His story came from two Cuban Exile leaders,
Sixto Mesa and Miguel de Leon, associates of the Cuban Exile leader
Manuela Artime. Helping to spread these false rumors were the virulent
anti-Communist journalists Jerry and James Buchanan in Miami. One of their
stories alleged that Oswald had been seen in Miami in contact with a Cuban
intelligence officer. It turned out that the source of their story was CIA
operative Frank Sturgis. None of the facts checked out and Oswald was
never in Miami. It was yet another hoax. Then in a letter to President
Johnson, dated December 2, 1963, a Mexican named Pedro Gutierrez Valencia
stated that on September 30, 1963 or on October 1, 1963 he saw a Cuban
give money to an American, just outside the Cuban Embasssy in Mexico City,
and he claims now to identify the American now as Oswald. But the CIA
discounted his story because at the time he said he saw Oswald at the
Cuban Embassy they were observing Oswald at the Soviet Embassy. This is
all summarized in a memo from Coleman and Slawson which another researcher
has put into a PDF. That PDF also has additional documents about Alvarado.
The very possibility that Oswald had been paid to assassinate
President Kennedy is what caused the cover-up of the JFK assassination and
the formation of the Warren Commission. President Johnson was concerned
that rumors of Cuban involvement would get out of hand and force the US to
invade Cuba, thus sparking WWIII. President Johnson was convinced that the
assassination was indeed a conspiracy, but if that fact ever became
public, it might lead to WWIII and a full nuclear exchange with Russia. It
was for reasons of national security that the public had to be convinced
that Oswald had acted alone. Lyndon Johnson told several key people of the
report from Hoover that Oswald had been paid by the Cubans to shoot
President Kennedy. But the decision was made to cover it up rather than
retaliate. LBJ blackmailed Earl Warren and other Warren Commission members
into serving on the commission by telling them about the rumor of Oswald
being paid in Mexico, but if that ever became public it could lead to
WWIII and the death of 40 million Americans. For example, listen to LBJ's
November 29, 1963 phone conversation with Senator Richard Russell .
Just as these rumors were beginning to die down, a new hoax appeared
which could have been even more devastating. A series of letters were
mailed from Havana, Cuba which suggested that Oswald was working for Cuban
intelligence. The first letter was postmarked November 28, 1863 from
Havana, Cuba addressed to Lee Oswald. It was signed by a "Pedro Charles"
and dated November 10, 1963. It appeared to discuss the upcoming
assassination. In addition to personal chit-chat it contained references
to Oswald's great markmanship, the job that he was going to do, the money
he had been paid, and how proud the "Chief" would be. U.S. intelligence
considered the "Chief" to be a reference to Fidel Castro. But there were a
few tip-offs which indicated the letter was not genuine. The letter was
sent to Lee Oswald c/o "Mail Office", Dallas, Texas. And the FBI and CIA
could not find anyone named Pedro Charles in Cuba. A second letter also
postmarked November 28, 1963 was mailed from Havana, Cuba to Attorney
General Robert Kennedy alleging that a Cuban agent named Pedro Charles had
met with Oswald in Miami several months previously and paid him $7,000 to
assassinate the President. This letter was signed by a "Mario del Rosario
Molina." But FBI analysis revealed that both the Molina letter and the
Pedro Charles letter had been typed on the same typewriter, a Remington
Number 10, large Pica type, mailed in envelopes from the same batch,
postmarked at the same place, and signed with the same type of pen and
ink. And again there was no such person as Mario del Rosario Molina. Later
analysis by Cuban intelligence identified the unique characteristics of
the typewriter used for both letters. In particular they noted that the
"a" key had a characteristic wear mark. This was presented at a conference
in Havana in 1995. Two more letters were sent from Havana, postmarked
December 3, 1963 and signed by a "Miguel Galban Lopez." One was addressed
to Voice of America and the other to the Editor of the "Diario del New
York." Both letters announced that it was Pedro Charles who paid Lee
Harvey Oswald to assassinate the President. The FBI examined all four
letters and concluded that they probably represented a hoax by anti-Castro
groups to blame the assassination on Cuba. But the most amazing thing is
that it took Hoover so long to catch onto the fact that these letters were
a hoax. On December 12, 1963 the very day that his lab was informing him
that the Pedro Charles letters were a hoax, he was citing them to his
closest aides as the reason why he felt that the FBI report should not
conclude that there was no conspiracy. Although Hoover was personally
satisfied that Oswald alone had fired all the shots, he still suspected
that Oswald was working on behalf of someone, in particular Castro, based
on those letters.
This was the reason for the cover-up of the JFK assassination, not
because US officials thought that Oswald acted alone, but because they
thought that he was acting on behalf of Castro and if that fact ever
became public, it would lead to WWIII.

Below are the actual letters and documents which you can click on and
view. The original letters were written in Spanish and translated into
English by the FBI.

Pedro Charles letter: Spanish English envelope
Letter to AG Robert Kennedy: Spanish, page 1 Spanish, page 2 English,
page 1 English, page 2 envelope, both sides
Letter to Voice of America: Spanish English envelope
Letter to Diario de New York: English

Dallas agent Heitman report to FBI HQ on December 5, 1963: page 1 page
2 page 3 page 4
Griffith to Conrad memo on December 10, 1963: page 1 page 2
FBI memo to State Department on December 12, 1963: page 1 page 2
Griffith to Conrad memo on December 30, 1963: page 1 page 2
Wannall to Sullivan memo on January 2, 1964: 1 page
Hoover memo to WC's Rankin on January 17, 1964: page 1 page 2
Coleman-Slawson memo on Gutierrez on April 1, 1964: PDF
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Not a lick of it.
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-20 06:18:35 UTC
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Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
No, it wasn't. He couldn't even hit Walker at only 120 feet away. That's
a dead give away that it was a conspiracy.
One missed shot, with no second or third shot taken, proves a
conspiracy? And 2 plus 2 equals 10.
Silly. No one is talking about a conspiracy in the Walker attempt.
Where do you get your goofy ideas?

The fact that Oswald missed when he tried to kill Walker shows why the
JFK assassination had to be a conspiracy. One man could not pull it off
alone. Show me where the miss went. PROOF.
Allan G. Johnson
2018-11-21 01:59:15 UTC
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Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
No, it wasn't. He couldn't even hit Walker at only 120 feet away. That's
a dead give away that it was a conspiracy.
One missed shot, with no second or third shot taken, proves a
conspiracy? And 2 plus 2 equals 10.
Silly. No one is talking about a conspiracy in the Walker attempt.
Where do you get your goofy ideas?
The fact that Oswald missed when he tried to kill Walker shows why the
JFK assassination had to be a conspiracy. One man could not pull it off
alone. Show me where the miss went. PROOF.
Missed first shot in Walker attempt (didn't realize it til later) and
missed first shot in JFK attempt, didn't want to make same mistake twice,
took two more shots at JFK to be sure. Where's the conspiracy in that?
Sounds like the same guy to me.
d***@gmail.com
2018-11-22 01:40:57 UTC
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Post by Allan G. Johnson
Missed first shot in Walker attempt (didn't realize it til later) and
missed first shot in JFK attempt, didn't want to make same mistake twice,
took two more shots at JFK to be sure. Where's the conspiracy in that?
Sounds like the same guy to me.
The Walker shot was deflected by a wooden window pane divider. It was
reported that General Walker would have been a dead man had that bullet
not been deflected. For all we know, the same is true with regards to the
missed shot in the Kennedy assassination. There was no shortage of
possible obstructions during the time frame of the 1st shot. After all,
it's hard to imagine that Oswald turned into a crack shooter (2nd and 3rd
shot) after having missed the entire limousine with his 1st shot.

I think it's fair to say that something unusual happened with the 1st shot
- something beyond simply missing. But, again, I readily admit that I'm
speculating.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN
bigdog
2018-11-23 01:24:43 UTC
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Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Missed first shot in Walker attempt (didn't realize it til later) and
missed first shot in JFK attempt, didn't want to make same mistake twice,
took two more shots at JFK to be sure. Where's the conspiracy in that?
Sounds like the same guy to me.
The Walker shot was deflected by a wooden window pane divider. It was
reported that General Walker would have been a dead man had that bullet
not been deflected. For all we know, the same is true with regards to the
missed shot in the Kennedy assassination. There was no shortage of
possible obstructions during the time frame of the 1st shot. After all,
it's hard to imagine that Oswald turned into a crack shooter (2nd and 3rd
shot) after having missed the entire limousine with his 1st shot.
Oswald wasn't shooting at the limousine so it is inaccurate to say he
missed the limousine. He was shooting at a target on the extreme right
side of the limo and only had to miss that target to the right for the
bullet to miss the limo. The first shot was by far the most difficult for
reasons already explained. It is not at all inconceivable to me that the
shot missed without any deflection at all.
Post by d***@gmail.com
I think it's fair to say that something unusual happened with the 1st shot
- something beyond simply missing. But, again, I readily admit that I'm
speculating.
I think simply missing is a realistic possibility given the difficulties
with the first shot that weren't present for the subsequent shots.
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-24 16:15:12 UTC
Reply
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Post by bigdog
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Missed first shot in Walker attempt (didn't realize it til later) and
missed first shot in JFK attempt, didn't want to make same mistake twice,
took two more shots at JFK to be sure. Where's the conspiracy in that?
Sounds like the same guy to me.
The Walker shot was deflected by a wooden window pane divider. It was
reported that General Walker would have been a dead man had that bullet
not been deflected. For all we know, the same is true with regards to the
missed shot in the Kennedy assassination. There was no shortage of
possible obstructions during the time frame of the 1st shot. After all,
it's hard to imagine that Oswald turned into a crack shooter (2nd and 3rd
shot) after having missed the entire limousine with his 1st shot.
Oswald wasn't shooting at the limousine so it is inaccurate to say he
missed the limousine. He was shooting at a target on the extreme right
But you think he hit the chrome topping. I challenge you to hit a chrome
topping at 100 yards. I know you can't.
How can you know that he wasn't aiming at the limo? Maybe he was trying
to shoot our the tires. That's what they did in an attempt on de Gaulle.
I bet YOU couldn't shoot out the tires at 100 yards.
Post by bigdog
side of the limo and only had to miss that target to the right for the
bullet to miss the limo. The first shot was by far the most difficult for
reasons already explained. It is not at all inconceivable to me that the
shot missed without any deflection at all.
I guess your double negative means you think it plausible that the
first shot was probably a miss. I agree a little but, but it is hard to
prove. Maybe shooter picked the wrong time for his first shot.
Maybe his early miss made him hurry his other shots.
Post by bigdog
Post by d***@gmail.com
I think it's fair to say that something unusual happened with the 1st shot
- something beyond simply missing. But, again, I readily admit that I'm
speculating.
I think simply missing is a realistic possibility given the difficulties
with the first shot that weren't present for the subsequent shots.
Why can't you endorse Max Holland's theory or mine?
bigdog
2018-11-24 23:29:15 UTC
Reply
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Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Missed first shot in Walker attempt (didn't realize it til later) and
missed first shot in JFK attempt, didn't want to make same mistake twice,
took two more shots at JFK to be sure. Where's the conspiracy in that?
Sounds like the same guy to me.
The Walker shot was deflected by a wooden window pane divider. It was
reported that General Walker would have been a dead man had that bullet
not been deflected. For all we know, the same is true with regards to the
missed shot in the Kennedy assassination. There was no shortage of
possible obstructions during the time frame of the 1st shot. After all,
it's hard to imagine that Oswald turned into a crack shooter (2nd and 3rd
shot) after having missed the entire limousine with his 1st shot.
Oswald wasn't shooting at the limousine so it is inaccurate to say he
missed the limousine. He was shooting at a target on the extreme right
But you think he hit the chrome topping.
You do love your straw men. At no time have I ever written such a thing.
At no time have I ever thought such a thing. A fragment of the head shot
may have hit the parade bar and/or the windshield frame, but neither was a
direct shot from Oswald.
Post by Anthony Marsh
I challenge you to hit a chrome
topping at 100 yards. I know you can't.
Why would I want to? Why would Oswald have wanted to?
Post by Anthony Marsh
How can you know that he wasn't aiming at the limo? Maybe he was trying
to shoot our the tires. That's what they did in an attempt on de Gaulle.
I bet YOU couldn't shoot out the tires at 100 yards.
This is no sillier than most of the stuff you post. Just your run of the
mill kooky ideas. You really need a filter. Maybe after writing your
posts, you should take a time out, come back 15 minutes later, read what
you have written and if it still makes sense to you, delete it so you
don't make yourself sound so foolish.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
side of the limo and only had to miss that target to the right for the
bullet to miss the limo. The first shot was by far the most difficult for
reasons already explained. It is not at all inconceivable to me that the
shot missed without any deflection at all.
I guess your double negative means you think it plausible that the
first shot was probably a miss.
I think that is a near certainty.
Post by Anthony Marsh
I agree a little but, but it is hard to
prove. Maybe shooter picked the wrong time for his first shot.
Maybe his early miss made him hurry his other shots.
The subsequent shots were on target.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by d***@gmail.com
I think it's fair to say that something unusual happened with the 1st shot
- something beyond simply missing. But, again, I readily admit that I'm
speculating.
I think simply missing is a realistic possibility given the difficulties
with the first shot that weren't present for the subsequent shots.
Why can't you endorse Max Holland's theory or mine?
I could endorse Max Holland's theory but I choose not to. I just find it
improbable given the preponderance of evidence. Your theory is simply
kooky. There is no evidence to support it.
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-26 00:04:07 UTC
Reply
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Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Missed first shot in Walker attempt (didn't realize it til later) and
missed first shot in JFK attempt, didn't want to make same mistake twice,
took two more shots at JFK to be sure. Where's the conspiracy in that?
Sounds like the same guy to me.
The Walker shot was deflected by a wooden window pane divider. It was
reported that General Walker would have been a dead man had that bullet
not been deflected. For all we know, the same is true with regards to the
missed shot in the Kennedy assassination. There was no shortage of
possible obstructions during the time frame of the 1st shot. After all,
it's hard to imagine that Oswald turned into a crack shooter (2nd and 3rd
shot) after having missed the entire limousine with his 1st shot.
Oswald wasn't shooting at the limousine so it is inaccurate to say he
missed the limousine. He was shooting at a target on the extreme right
But you think he hit the chrome topping.
You do love your straw men. At no time have I ever written such a thing.
At no time have I ever thought such a thing. A fragment of the head shot
may have hit the parade bar and/or the windshield frame, but neither was a
direct shot from Oswald.
Post by Anthony Marsh
I challenge you to hit a chrome
topping at 100 yards. I know you can't.
Why would I want to? Why would Oswald have wanted to?
Way to chicken out. You know you'd lose. You can't explain the dent on the
chrome topping. Why don't yousay aliens did it?

FYI nothing hit the parade bar. Ken Rahn and Larry Sturdivan thinkk a
fragment from the head shot went under the parade bar and over the chrome
topping, then hit the curb near Tague. But their math is a little off on
the velocities.
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
How can you know that he wasn't aiming at the limo? Maybe he was trying
to shoot our the tires. That's what they did in an attempt on de Gaulle.
I bet YOU couldn't shoot out the tires at 100 yards.
This is no sillier than most of the stuff you post. Just your run of the
mill kooky ideas. You really need a filter. Maybe after writing your
posts, you should take a time out, come back 15 minutes later, read what
you have written and if it still makes sense to you, delete it so you
don't make yourself sound so foolish.
I'm doing this all for you so that you can salvage your silly theories.
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
side of the limo and only had to miss that target to the right for the
bullet to miss the limo. The first shot was by far the most difficult for
reasons already explained. It is not at all inconceivable to me that the
shot missed without any deflection at all.
I guess your double negative means you think it plausible that the
first shot was probably a miss.
I think that is a near certainty.
Prove it.
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
I agree a little but, but it is hard to
prove. Maybe shooter picked the wrong time for his first shot.
Maybe his early miss made him hurry his other shots.
The subsequent shots were on target.
So you think the shooter meant to hit the chrome topping and the curb
near Tague?
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by d***@gmail.com
I think it's fair to say that something unusual happened with the 1st shot
- something beyond simply missing. But, again, I readily admit that I'm
speculating.
I think simply missing is a realistic possibility given the difficulties
with the first shot that weren't present for the subsequent shots.
Why can't you endorse Max Holland's theory or mine?
I could endorse Max Holland's theory but I choose not to. I just find it
improbable given the preponderance of evidence. Your theory is simply
kooky. There is no evidence to support it.
Show me what you mean. Stop guessing.
Allan G. Johnson
2018-11-23 01:25:26 UTC
Reply
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Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Missed first shot in Walker attempt (didn't realize it til later) and
missed first shot in JFK attempt, didn't want to make same mistake twice,
took two more shots at JFK to be sure. Where's the conspiracy in that?
Sounds like the same guy to me.
The Walker shot was deflected by a wooden window pane divider. It was
reported that General Walker would have been a dead man had that bullet
not been deflected. For all we know, the same is true with regards to the
missed shot in the Kennedy assassination. There was no shortage of
possible obstructions during the time frame of the 1st shot. After all,
it's hard to imagine that Oswald turned into a crack shooter (2nd and 3rd
shot) after having missed the entire limousine with his 1st shot.
I think it's fair to say that something unusual happened with the 1st shot
- something beyond simply missing. But, again, I readily admit that I'm
speculating.
David Emerling
Memphis, TN
Some think he flinched at the first shot and pulled it, being too
close, could be he used the scope to sight but, being too close, the
target was moving too fast to be acquired properly or it wasn't zeroed in
to shoot at that close range, but most likely, the first shot deflected
off something because it missed the entire car just below him.

Personally, I think the first shot deflected off the traffic light
signal, not the pole, and split up, parts (lead) going down range near
Tague, parts (copper) hitting pavement next to the limo. Either way, he
wasn't about to chance another miss and he kept firing until the target
was out of range. He did load the fourth shot remember but it wasn't
taken.
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-24 16:15:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Missed first shot in Walker attempt (didn't realize it til later) and
missed first shot in JFK attempt, didn't want to make same mistake twice,
took two more shots at JFK to be sure. Where's the conspiracy in that?
Sounds like the same guy to me.
The Walker shot was deflected by a wooden window pane divider. It was
reported that General Walker would have been a dead man had that bullet
not been deflected. For all we know, the same is true with regards to the
missed shot in the Kennedy assassination. There was no shortage of
possible obstructions during the time frame of the 1st shot. After all,
it's hard to imagine that Oswald turned into a crack shooter (2nd and 3rd
shot) after having missed the entire limousine with his 1st shot.
I think it's fair to say that something unusual happened with the 1st shot
- something beyond simply missing. But, again, I readily admit that I'm
speculating.
David Emerling
Memphis, TN
Some think he flinched at the first shot and pulled it, being too
close, could be he used the scope to sight but, being too close, the
target was moving too fast to be acquired properly or it wasn't zeroed in
to shoot at that close range, but most likely, the first shot deflected
off something because it missed the entire car just below him.
I like that very much. Can we call it equipment malfunction or rookie
error?
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Personally, I think the first shot deflected off the traffic light
signal, not the pole, and split up, parts (lead) going down range near
Tague, parts (copper) hitting pavement next to the limo. Either way, he
wasn't about to chance another miss and he kept firing until the target
was out of range. He did load the fourth shot remember but it wasn't
taken.
No. He did not load the fourth round. Friz the klutz did.

But Max could not find any holes. Don't you believe Max? What about
deflecting off the support bar?
Allan G. Johnson
2018-11-24 23:34:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Missed first shot in Walker attempt (didn't realize it til later) and
missed first shot in JFK attempt, didn't want to make same mistake twice,
took two more shots at JFK to be sure. Where's the conspiracy in that?
Sounds like the same guy to me.
The Walker shot was deflected by a wooden window pane divider. It was
reported that General Walker would have been a dead man had that bullet
not been deflected. For all we know, the same is true with regards to the
missed shot in the Kennedy assassination. There was no shortage of
possible obstructions during the time frame of the 1st shot. After all,
it's hard to imagine that Oswald turned into a crack shooter (2nd and 3rd
shot) after having missed the entire limousine with his 1st shot.
I think it's fair to say that something unusual happened with the 1st shot
- something beyond simply missing. But, again, I readily admit that I'm
speculating.
David Emerling
Memphis, TN
Some think he flinched at the first shot and pulled it, being too
close, could be he used the scope to sight but, being too close, the
target was moving too fast to be acquired properly or it wasn't zeroed in
to shoot at that close range, but most likely, the first shot deflected
off something because it missed the entire car just below him.
I like that very much. Can we call it equipment malfunction or rookie
error?
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Personally, I think the first shot deflected off the traffic light
signal, not the pole, and split up, parts (lead) going down range near
Tague, parts (copper) hitting pavement next to the limo. Either way, he
wasn't about to chance another miss and he kept firing until the target
was out of range. He did load the fourth shot remember but it wasn't
taken.
No. He did not load the fourth round. Friz the klutz did.
But Max could not find any holes. Don't you believe Max? What about
deflecting off the support bar?
The fourth bullet came out only when Fritz opened the breech, then put
it back in. I believe the actual traffic light signal was never saved and
never personally inspected by anyone, although a slight defect appears on
photo's that appear to show a possible bullet hit. It is also possible
the bullet did deflect off the support bar but I just don't think it would
cause two deflections, one down range and one next to the limo.
Allan G. Johnson
2018-11-26 15:30:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Missed first shot in Walker attempt (didn't realize it til later) and
missed first shot in JFK attempt, didn't want to make same mistake twice,
took two more shots at JFK to be sure. Where's the conspiracy in that?
Sounds like the same guy to me.
The Walker shot was deflected by a wooden window pane divider. It was
reported that General Walker would have been a dead man had that bullet
not been deflected. For all we know, the same is true with regards to the
missed shot in the Kennedy assassination. There was no shortage of
possible obstructions during the time frame of the 1st shot. After all,
it's hard to imagine that Oswald turned into a crack shooter (2nd and 3rd
shot) after having missed the entire limousine with his 1st shot.
I think it's fair to say that something unusual happened with the 1st shot
- something beyond simply missing. But, again, I readily admit that I'm
speculating.
David Emerling
Memphis, TN
Some think he flinched at the first shot and pulled it, being too
close, could be he used the scope to sight but, being too close, the
target was moving too fast to be acquired properly or it wasn't zeroed in
to shoot at that close range, but most likely, the first shot deflected
off something because it missed the entire car just below him.
I like that very much. Can we call it equipment malfunction or rookie
error?
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Personally, I think the first shot deflected off the traffic light
signal, not the pole, and split up, parts (lead) going down range near
Tague, parts (copper) hitting pavement next to the limo. Either way, he
wasn't about to chance another miss and he kept firing until the target
was out of range. He did load the fourth shot remember but it wasn't
taken.
No. He did not load the fourth round. Friz the klutz did.
But Max could not find any holes. Don't you believe Max? What about
deflecting off the support bar?
Fritz loaded the fourth round? I think not. According to Lt. Carl
Day, Chief of the DPD crime scene search unit, after checking for prints,
he held the rifle "while Captain Fritz pulled the bolt and a live round
fell out". Day and Fritz both said a round was in the chamber of the
rifle when they were inspecting it.
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-27 13:09:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Missed first shot in Walker attempt (didn't realize it til later) and
missed first shot in JFK attempt, didn't want to make same mistake twice,
took two more shots at JFK to be sure. Where's the conspiracy in that?
Sounds like the same guy to me.
The Walker shot was deflected by a wooden window pane divider. It was
reported that General Walker would have been a dead man had that bullet
not been deflected. For all we know, the same is true with regards to the
missed shot in the Kennedy assassination. There was no shortage of
possible obstructions during the time frame of the 1st shot. After all,
it's hard to imagine that Oswald turned into a crack shooter (2nd and 3rd
shot) after having missed the entire limousine with his 1st shot.
I think it's fair to say that something unusual happened with the 1st shot
- something beyond simply missing. But, again, I readily admit that I'm
speculating.
David Emerling
Memphis, TN
Some think he flinched at the first shot and pulled it, being too
close, could be he used the scope to sight but, being too close, the
target was moving too fast to be acquired properly or it wasn't zeroed in
to shoot at that close range, but most likely, the first shot deflected
off something because it missed the entire car just below him.
I like that very much. Can we call it equipment malfunction or rookie
error?
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Personally, I think the first shot deflected off the traffic light
signal, not the pole, and split up, parts (lead) going down range near
Tague, parts (copper) hitting pavement next to the limo. Either way, he
wasn't about to chance another miss and he kept firing until the target
was out of range. He did load the fourth shot remember but it wasn't
taken.
No. He did not load the fourth round. Friz the klutz did.
But Max could not find any holes. Don't you believe Max? What about
deflecting off the support bar?
Fritz loaded the fourth round? I think not. According to Lt. Carl
Day, Chief of the DPD crime scene search unit, after checking for prints,
he held the rifle "while Captain Fritz pulled the bolt and a live round
fell out". Day and Fritz both said a round was in the chamber of the
rifle when they were inspecting it.
Alyea saw him do it. He pulled the bolt back and an empty shell flew
out. Then he closed the bolt which put the live round in the chamber
then picked up the empty shell and threw the empty shells on the floor.
bigdog
2018-11-27 20:54:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Missed first shot in Walker attempt (didn't realize it til later) and
missed first shot in JFK attempt, didn't want to make same mistake twice,
took two more shots at JFK to be sure. Where's the conspiracy in that?
Sounds like the same guy to me.
The Walker shot was deflected by a wooden window pane divider. It was
reported that General Walker would have been a dead man had that bullet
not been deflected. For all we know, the same is true with regards to the
missed shot in the Kennedy assassination. There was no shortage of
possible obstructions during the time frame of the 1st shot. After all,
it's hard to imagine that Oswald turned into a crack shooter (2nd and 3rd
shot) after having missed the entire limousine with his 1st shot.
I think it's fair to say that something unusual happened with the 1st shot
- something beyond simply missing. But, again, I readily admit that I'm
speculating.
David Emerling
Memphis, TN
Some think he flinched at the first shot and pulled it, being too
close, could be he used the scope to sight but, being too close, the
target was moving too fast to be acquired properly or it wasn't zeroed in
to shoot at that close range, but most likely, the first shot deflected
off something because it missed the entire car just below him.
I like that very much. Can we call it equipment malfunction or rookie
error?
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Personally, I think the first shot deflected off the traffic light
signal, not the pole, and split up, parts (lead) going down range near
Tague, parts (copper) hitting pavement next to the limo. Either way, he
wasn't about to chance another miss and he kept firing until the target
was out of range. He did load the fourth shot remember but it wasn't
taken.
No. He did not load the fourth round. Friz the klutz did.
But Max could not find any holes. Don't you believe Max? What about
deflecting off the support bar?
Fritz loaded the fourth round? I think not. According to Lt. Carl
Day, Chief of the DPD crime scene search unit, after checking for prints,
he held the rifle "while Captain Fritz pulled the bolt and a live round
fell out". Day and Fritz both said a round was in the chamber of the
rifle when they were inspecting it.
Alyea saw him do it. He pulled the bolt back and an empty shell flew
out. Then he closed the bolt which put the live round in the chamber
then picked up the empty shell and threw the empty shells on the floor.
Saw after admonishing us countless times to "never rely on a witness", you
rely on a witness.
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-28 14:17:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Missed first shot in Walker attempt (didn't realize it til later) and
missed first shot in JFK attempt, didn't want to make same mistake twice,
took two more shots at JFK to be sure. Where's the conspiracy in that?
Sounds like the same guy to me.
The Walker shot was deflected by a wooden window pane divider. It was
reported that General Walker would have been a dead man had that bullet
not been deflected. For all we know, the same is true with regards to the
missed shot in the Kennedy assassination. There was no shortage of
possible obstructions during the time frame of the 1st shot. After all,
it's hard to imagine that Oswald turned into a crack shooter (2nd and 3rd
shot) after having missed the entire limousine with his 1st shot.
I think it's fair to say that something unusual happened with the 1st shot
- something beyond simply missing. But, again, I readily admit that I'm
speculating.
David Emerling
Memphis, TN
Some think he flinched at the first shot and pulled it, being too
close, could be he used the scope to sight but, being too close, the
target was moving too fast to be acquired properly or it wasn't zeroed in
to shoot at that close range, but most likely, the first shot deflected
off something because it missed the entire car just below him.
I like that very much. Can we call it equipment malfunction or rookie
error?
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Personally, I think the first shot deflected off the traffic light
signal, not the pole, and split up, parts (lead) going down range near
Tague, parts (copper) hitting pavement next to the limo. Either way, he
wasn't about to chance another miss and he kept firing until the target
was out of range. He did load the fourth shot remember but it wasn't
taken.
No. He did not load the fourth round. Friz the klutz did.
But Max could not find any holes. Don't you believe Max? What about
deflecting off the support bar?
Fritz loaded the fourth round? I think not. According to Lt. Carl
Day, Chief of the DPD crime scene search unit, after checking for prints,
he held the rifle "while Captain Fritz pulled the bolt and a live round
fell out". Day and Fritz both said a round was in the chamber of the
rifle when they were inspecting it.
Alyea saw him do it. He pulled the bolt back and an empty shell flew
out. Then he closed the bolt which put the live round in the chamber
then picked up the empty shell and threw the empty shells on the floor.
Saw after admonishing us countless times to "never rely on a witness", you
rely on a witness.
No. He also filmed it.
Allan G. Johnson
2018-11-28 04:48:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Missed first shot in Walker attempt (didn't realize it til later) and
missed first shot in JFK attempt, didn't want to make same mistake twice,
took two more shots at JFK to be sure. Where's the conspiracy in that?
Sounds like the same guy to me.
The Walker shot was deflected by a wooden window pane divider. It was
reported that General Walker would have been a dead man had that bullet
not been deflected. For all we know, the same is true with regards to the
missed shot in the Kennedy assassination. There was no shortage of
possible obstructions during the time frame of the 1st shot. After all,
it's hard to imagine that Oswald turned into a crack shooter (2nd and 3rd
shot) after having missed the entire limousine with his 1st shot.
I think it's fair to say that something unusual happened with the 1st shot
- something beyond simply missing. But, again, I readily admit that I'm
speculating.
David Emerling
Memphis, TN
Some think he flinched at the first shot and pulled it, being too
close, could be he used the scope to sight but, being too close, the
target was moving too fast to be acquired properly or it wasn't zeroed in
to shoot at that close range, but most likely, the first shot deflected
off something because it missed the entire car just below him.
I like that very much. Can we call it equipment malfunction or rookie
error?
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Personally, I think the first shot deflected off the traffic light
signal, not the pole, and split up, parts (lead) going down range near
Tague, parts (copper) hitting pavement next to the limo. Either way, he
wasn't about to chance another miss and he kept firing until the target
was out of range. He did load the fourth shot remember but it wasn't
taken.
No. He did not load the fourth round. Friz the klutz did.
But Max could not find any holes. Don't you believe Max? What about
deflecting off the support bar?
Fritz loaded the fourth round? I think not. According to Lt. Carl
Day, Chief of the DPD crime scene search unit, after checking for prints,
he held the rifle "while Captain Fritz pulled the bolt and a live round
fell out". Day and Fritz both said a round was in the chamber of the
rifle when they were inspecting it.
Alyea saw him do it. He pulled the bolt back and an empty shell flew
out. Then he closed the bolt which put the live round in the chamber
then picked up the empty shell and threw the empty shells on the floor.
That doesn't jive with what Harold Norman heard and said. He heard a
boom, click, click, boom, click, click, boom, click, click. Three shots,
three loads, that last click, click was the final round being loaded, but
not taken.
Allan G. Johnson
2018-11-28 04:49:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Missed first shot in Walker attempt (didn't realize it til later) and
missed first shot in JFK attempt, didn't want to make same mistake twice,
took two more shots at JFK to be sure. Where's the conspiracy in that?
Sounds like the same guy to me.
The Walker shot was deflected by a wooden window pane divider. It was
reported that General Walker would have been a dead man had that bullet
not been deflected. For all we know, the same is true with regards to the
missed shot in the Kennedy assassination. There was no shortage of
possible obstructions during the time frame of the 1st shot. After all,
it's hard to imagine that Oswald turned into a crack shooter (2nd and 3rd
shot) after having missed the entire limousine with his 1st shot.
I think it's fair to say that something unusual happened with the 1st shot
- something beyond simply missing. But, again, I readily admit that I'm
speculating.
David Emerling
Memphis, TN
Some think he flinched at the first shot and pulled it, being too
close, could be he used the scope to sight but, being too close, the
target was moving too fast to be acquired properly or it wasn't zeroed in
to shoot at that close range, but most likely, the first shot deflected
off something because it missed the entire car just below him.
I like that very much. Can we call it equipment malfunction or rookie
error?
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Personally, I think the first shot deflected off the traffic light
signal, not the pole, and split up, parts (lead) going down range near
Tague, parts (copper) hitting pavement next to the limo. Either way, he
wasn't about to chance another miss and he kept firing until the target
was out of range. He did load the fourth shot remember but it wasn't
taken.
No. He did not load the fourth round. Friz the klutz did.
But Max could not find any holes. Don't you believe Max? What about
deflecting off the support bar?
Fritz loaded the fourth round? I think not. According to Lt. Carl
Day, Chief of the DPD crime scene search unit, after checking for prints,
he held the rifle "while Captain Fritz pulled the bolt and a live round
fell out". Day and Fritz both said a round was in the chamber of the
rifle when they were inspecting it.
Alyea saw him do it. He pulled the bolt back and an empty shell flew
out. Then he closed the bolt which put the live round in the chamber
then picked up the empty shell and threw the empty shells on the floor.
Why doesn't Alyea have film of any of that?
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-29 05:35:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Missed first shot in Walker attempt (didn't realize it til later) and
missed first shot in JFK attempt, didn't want to make same mistake twice,
took two more shots at JFK to be sure. Where's the conspiracy in that?
Sounds like the same guy to me.
The Walker shot was deflected by a wooden window pane divider. It was
reported that General Walker would have been a dead man had that bullet
not been deflected. For all we know, the same is true with regards to the
missed shot in the Kennedy assassination. There was no shortage of
possible obstructions during the time frame of the 1st shot. After all,
it's hard to imagine that Oswald turned into a crack shooter (2nd and 3rd
shot) after having missed the entire limousine with his 1st shot.
I think it's fair to say that something unusual happened with the 1st shot
- something beyond simply missing. But, again, I readily admit that I'm
speculating.
David Emerling
Memphis, TN
Some think he flinched at the first shot and pulled it, being too
close, could be he used the scope to sight but, being too close, the
target was moving too fast to be acquired properly or it wasn't zeroed in
to shoot at that close range, but most likely, the first shot deflected
off something because it missed the entire car just below him.
I like that very much. Can we call it equipment malfunction or rookie
error?
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Personally, I think the first shot deflected off the traffic light
signal, not the pole, and split up, parts (lead) going down range near
Tague, parts (copper) hitting pavement next to the limo. Either way, he
wasn't about to chance another miss and he kept firing until the target
was out of range. He did load the fourth shot remember but it wasn't
taken.
No. He did not load the fourth round. Friz the klutz did.
But Max could not find any holes. Don't you believe Max? What about
deflecting off the support bar?
Fritz loaded the fourth round? I think not. According to Lt. Carl
Day, Chief of the DPD crime scene search unit, after checking for prints,
he held the rifle "while Captain Fritz pulled the bolt and a live round
fell out". Day and Fritz both said a round was in the chamber of the
rifle when they were inspecting it.
Alyea saw him do it. He pulled the bolt back and an empty shell flew
out. Then he closed the bolt which put the live round in the chamber
then picked up the empty shell and threw the empty shells on the floor.
Why doesn't Alyea have film of any of that?
His statiion threw it away. outtakes. They said it was a fire hazard.
Haven't you read anything about Alyea?

Tom Alyea, "Facts and Photos"

From Connie Kritzberg's Secrets from the Sixth Floor Window, pp. 39-46



I was the first newsman into the building and the only newsman to
accompany the search team as they went from floor to floor searching for
the person who fired the shots. At this time, we did not know the
president had been hit. I rushed in with a group of plain clothesmen and a
few uniformed officers. . . .

I [followed] the search team that was on its way to the rear
elevator, to start the floor by floor search. We searched every floor, all
the way to the roof. The gunman could have still been in the building.
Finding nothing, they started back down. After approximately 18 minutes,
they were joined by Captain Fritz, who had first gone to Parkland
Hospital.

The barricade on the sixth floor ran parallel to the windows,
extending in an "L" shape that ended against the front wall between the
first and second twin windows. The height of the stack of boxes was a
minimum of 5 ft. I looked over the barricade and saw three shell casings
laying on the floor in front of the second window in the two window
casement. They were scattered in an area that could be covered by a bushel
basket. They were located about half way between the inside of the
barricade. I set my lens focus at the estimated distance from the camera
to the floor and held the camera over the top of the barricade and filmed
them before anybody went into the enclosure. I could not position my eye
to the camera's view finder to get the shot. After filming the casings
with my wide angle lens, from a height of 5 ft., I asked Captain Fritz,
who was standing at my side, if I could go behind the barricade and get a
close-up shot of the casings. He told me that it would be better if I got
my shots from outside the barricade. He then rounded the pile of boxes and
entered the enclosure. This was the first time anybody walked between the
barricade and the windows.

Fritz then walked to the casings, picked them up and held them in
his hand over the top of the boxes for me to get a close-up shot of the
evidence. I filmed about eight seconds of a close-up shot of the shell
casings in Captain Fritz's hand. I stopped filming, and thanked him. I do
not recall if he placed them in his pocket or returned them back to the
floor, because I was preoccupied with recording other views of the crime
scene. I have been asked many times if I thought it was peculiar that the
Captain of Homicide picked up evidence with his hands. Actually, that was
the first thought that came to me when he did it, but I rationalized that
he was the homicide expert and no prints could be taken from spent shell
casings. Therefore, any photograph of shell casings taken after this, is
staged and not correct. It is highly doubtful that the shell casings that
appear in Dallas police photos of the crime scene are the same casings
that were found originally. The originals by this time were probably in a
plastic bag at police headquarters. Why? Probably this was a missing link
in the report the police department had to send to the FBI and they had to
stage it and the barricade box placement to complete their report and
photo records.

The position of the barricade, while difficult to follow for one
who was not there, is important because of the difference in photographs
seen today.

There are four different box positions.

1) There was one box in the barricade stack that was considerably
higher than the others. This box is the one that can be seen
in the photos taken from outside the window by Tom Dillard,
because it was high enough to catch the sunlight and still be
seen from the ground below. It is not to be confused with the
second box set at an angle in the window sill, that was used
as a brace for the assassin's rifle.

2) A portion of this box can also be seen in these same photos
taken by Tom Dillard. It shows up in the lower right hand
corner of the picture.

3) Two boxes were stacked on the floor, inside the window, to
give arm support to the assassin. The top box was one of the
two boxes from which the crime lab lifted palm prints.

4) The fourth box of importance was on the floor behind the
sniper location. Officers also lifted palm prints from this
box. It is suspected that the sniper sat on this box while he
waited for the motorcade to pass.

The positioning of boxes 2, 3, and 4 were recorded by the police
crime lab. They are the only boxes involved in the crime scene.

The actual positioning of the barricade was never photographed by
the police. It s actual positioning is only on my movie footage, which was
taken before the police started dismantling the arrangement.

We all looked over the barricade to see if the half open window
with three boxes piled to form a shooting rest for a gunman. One box was
actually on the window sill, tilted at an angle. There was a reason for
this that I cover in my JFK Facts newsletter. The shooting location
consists of two windows set together to form one single window. (The
police photo showing the shell casings laying next to the brick wall was
staged later by crime lab people who did not see the original positioning
because they were not called upon the scene until after the rifle was
found nearly an hour later.) . . .

Only recently I saw a picture of Lt. Day with a news still
cameraman on the 6th floor. Day was shown pointing to the location where
the rifle was found. This was nearly 3:30 or after. It was my
understanding that Day and Studebaker had taken the prints, rifle and
homemade sack back to police headquarters. I personally would like to know
what they were doing back at the scene unless it was to reconstruct shots
they had failed to take during the primary investigation. But this
evidence had been destroyed and they were forced to create their own
version. The photo I have seen of the barricade wasn't even close. I have
also seen recently a police photo of the assassin's lair taken from a high
angle which indicates that it was shot before the barricade box
arrangement was destroyed, but it did not show the barricade itself. This
has no bearing on the case other than the public has never seen the
original placement. . . .

Police officers who claim they were on the 6th floor when the
assassin's window was found have reported that they saw chicken bones at
or near the site. One officer reported that he saw chicken bones on the
floor near the location. Another said he saw chicken bones on the
barricade boxes, while another reported that he saw chicken bones on the
box which was laying across the window sill. Some of these officers have
given testimony as to the location of the shell casings. Their testimony
differs and none of it is true. I have no idea why they are clinging to
these statements. They must have a reason. Perhaps it is because they put
it in a report and they must stick to it.

One officer stated that he found the assassin's location at the
6th floor window. He went on to say that as he and his fellow officers
were leaving the building, he passed Captain Fritz coming in. He said he
stopped briefly to tell Captain Fritz that he had found the assassin's
lair at the 6th floor window. This seems highly unlikely because Captain
Fritz joined us on the 5th floor and aided in the search. The chances are
great that this, or these officers heard the report, that stemmed from
WFAA-TV's incorrect announcement that the chicken bones were found on the
6th floor. This officer or officers perhaps used this information to
formulate their presence at the scene. There were no chicken bones found
on the 6th floor. We covered every inch of it and I filmed everything that
could possibly be suspected as evidence. There definitely were no chicken
bones were no chicken bones on or near the barricade or boxes at the
window. I shot close-up shots of the entire area. The most outstanding
puzzle as to why these officers are sticking to this story is the fact
they claim to have found the sniper's location, then left the building, as
they said to join the investigators at the Tippit shooting location. I
have never seen a report that indicates they attempted to use any
telephone in the building in an attempt to notify other investigators.
They just left the scene to check another assignment, and by chance ran
into Capt. Fritz coming in the front door. They claim to have placed a
detective at the location but they did not relay their finding to any
other officer before they left the building. I presume that the alleged
detective they allegedly left at the scene was instructed to stand there
until someone else stumbled upon the scene, or they found time to report
it after investigating the Tippit scene. Sorry, it doesn't wash.

I do however know that Officer Mooney was present when the rifle
was found because I took film of him at the scene. He is shown talking to
another detective, but this was nearly an hour after the sniper's location
was found at the window. I have no idea when he arrived. We ended up with
more men than when we started. As they joined us during the search the
latecomers would bring us the latest news of the president's condition.
When Captain Fritz arrived 18 minutes after we started, he brought news
that both Governor Connally and the president had been hit but by the time
he left, the seriousness of their wounds was unknown. Fritz left the
hospital almost immediately when he was notified that a search was
underway in the Texas School Book Depository for the sniper. We in the
search team had no phones, radios or TV sets. As I recall, we learned that
the president was dead about the time we found the rifle. I don't know who
brought us this word. Several officers arrived while we were waiting for
Lt. Day. One of them was Roger Craig, who is responsible for giving much
misinformation to the press. None of us were prepared to hear that the
president's wound was a fatal one. We thought perhaps it was a minor thing
or possibly a flesh wound. It was a stunning shock, and our attitude
[towards] the rifle had suddenly changed. We stared at the small portion
of the butt as it lay under the overhang boxes while we waited for Lt. Day
to arrive and recover the weapon that killed our president. . . .

We finished combing the 6th floor, looking for the assassin or
any other evidence. Finding nothing more at this time Captain Fritz
ordered all of us to the elevator and we started searching the 7th floor
and from there we went to the roof.

Nothing in the way of evidence was found so we retraced our
search back down, floor by floor. Shortly after we arrived back on the 6th
floor, Deputy Eugene Boone located the assassin's rifle almost completely
hidden by some overhanging boxes near the stairwell. I filmed it as it was
found. In my shot, the figure of Captain Fritz is standing within the
enclosure next to the rifle. He knew then that the possibility of a fire
fight with the sniper had greatly diminished. He dispatched one of his men
to go down and call for the crime lab. About fifteen minutes later, Lt.
Day and Studebaker arrived. Still pictures were taken of the positioning
of the rifle, then Lt. Day slid it out from its hiding place and held it
up for all of us to see. The world has seen my shot of this many times.
Lt. Day immediately turned toward the window behind him and started
dusting the weapon for fingerprints. Day was still within the enclosure
formed by the surrounding boxes. I filmed him lifting prints from the
rifle. He lifted them off with scotch tape and placed them on little white
cards. When he had finished, he handed the rifle to Captain Fritz. Fritz
pulled the bolt back and a live round ejected and landed on the boxes
below. Fritz put the cartridge in his pocket. I did not see Fritz pick up
anything other than the live round. . . .

I filmed Captain Fritz talking with associates in this dismantled
area [the "sniper's nest"], along with Studebaker, who was dusting the Dr.
Pepper bottle which had been brought up to him from the 5th floor. This is
all recorded on my film. I never learned if prints were lifted from the
pop bottle. I'm not sure if anybody ever asked.

I took the film from my camera, placed it back into its metal
can, wrapped the tape around it, and tossed it to our News Editor, A. J.
L'Hoste, who was waiting outside with the other newsmen who were not
allowed in the building. A. J. raced it to the television station which
was about three blocks away. About fifteen minutes later the world saw the
murder weapon, where it was found and pictures of the crime lab people
dusting it for fingerprints, and the shell casings that once housed those
bullets. They also saw how the assassin prepared for his ambush and the
view he had of the killing zone.



Addendum #1

A correspondent asked Tom Alyea about the accuracy of the above
material and forwarded Alyea's response:

Thanks for sending me the material from Connie Kritzberg's
"Secrets from The Sixth Floor." I never read the book. Many years ago she
interviewed me about what I saw during the search. I gave her some
pictures to use in her story. This is the first time I have seen the
story. I regret to say that there are some inaccuracies, which is to be
expected in an interview. You must remember that she was not on the sixth
floor. She was at her desk in the city room at the Dallas Times Herald
newspaper. It is disjointed and out of sequence, which makes it difficult
to follow. This is often the case when the interviewer asks the questions
and was not at the scene. Connie is a friend of mine, and a good reporter,
but I did not see the final draft before it went to press. There is always
the possibility that I failed to make my answers clear, and she derived a
different meaning. Please remember that these short statements contained
little detail and circumstances behind the situation.

I shall make a few corrections that I feel are necessary to
maintain accuracy:

Corrections:

The average height of the barricade (Barricade #1) was four and a
half feet. I don't know how high this would be in the Metric scale.

My shot of the shell casings in Capt. Fritz's hand was between
three and four seconds.

(Important correction:) Take out the sentence that starts with,
"It is highly doubtful???"

My statement was that after Capt. Fritz held the casing over the
barricade for me to film, he turned to examine the shooting support boxes
on the windowsill. I couldn't see the captain put the casings in his coat
pocket because his coat pocket was below the top of the barricade. He did
not return them to the floor and he did not have them in his hand when he
was examining the shooting support boxes. Over thirty minutes later, after
the rifle was discovered and the crime lab arrived, Capt. Fritz reached
into his pocket and handed the casings to Det. Studebaker to include in
the photographs he would take of the sniper's nest crime scene. We stayed
at the rifle site to watch Lt. Day dust the rifle. You have seen my
footage of this. Studebaker never saw the original placement of the
casings so he tossed them on the floor and photographed them. Det.
Studebaker was alone at this site until after Lt. Day left the building
with the rifle. We in the search team went to the sniper's site.
Studebaker had already photographed the casings on the floor and was busy
dusting the pop bottle when we arrived. The casings were no longer on the
floor. I never saw them again. The barricade had been completely
dismantled and the boxes from the West side of the barricade had been
removed and placed in various locations around the site. We did not
realize at the time that Studebaker had not recorded on film the original
placement of the boxes in the barricade. He also had removed the shooting
support boxes on the window ledge and stacked them one on top of the other
on the floor inside. He took a picture of this reconstructed arrangement.
This is the view researchers have of the shooting support boxes that were
originally on the brick window ledge. The corner of the outside box was
positioned over the lower window channel that tilted the box at an angle.

(Important correction)???Take out the sentence that starts with,
"I have also seen recently???"

This high angle photograph was taken after the crime lab returned
to the sixth floor three days later 'Monday, November, twenty-five. Capt.
Fritz had seen the photographs and had directed the crime lab to correct
the shots of the window boxes and the casings on the floor. He had seen
the original placement and ordered the crime lab to correct it. Neither
Lt. Day nor Det. Studebaker had seen the original placement, so they
procured my film from the TV station to get it right. The high angle shot
(shots) were made to show the original placement. Their reconstruction was
close, but not exact. However, they did not bring the casings with them so
they did not make the correction of the original placement of the shell
casings.

(Important correction) Take out the sentence that starts with
:" I do however know that Officer Mooney???"

Mooney was a Sheriff's Deputy, not a police officer. He did not
arrive on the sixth floor until after the rifle was found and the search
was over.

(Important correction) Take out the sentence that starts with,
"He dispatched one of his men???"

Capt. Fritz did this after the shooting site was discovered, with
the instructions to have the crime lab men wait on the first floor when
they arrived. We were still looking for an armed gunman. We had only found
his shooting location. After the rifle was found, Capt. Fritz sent one of
his detectives down in the elevator to bring up the crime lab, because it
was obvious that the sniper had escaped and the threat of a firefight was
unlikely. The crime lab is never called to a scene that has not been
secured. I hope you researcher friends will realize this when the read the
police testimonies where they place Lt. Day at the shooting site crime
scene while we in the search team were still searching for an armed sniper
on the same floor. They had a noble reason for giving this false
testimony. They wanted to protect their boss, Capt. Fritz from possible
censure for picking up the casings before the crime lab arrived and
processed them. The easiest way was to place Lt. Day at the scene before
Capt. Fritz arrived. All this is detailed in my report.



Addendum #2

From: Dale Myers (***@rust.net)
Subject: Re: Tom Alyea on the sixth floor evidence
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Date: 1999/07/04

As we all know, time alters recollections. Case in point:
compare Tom Alyea's more recent statements (posted by Dave Reitzes) with
his statement from December 19, 1963:

------------------------------[quote on]

"...I ran on upstairs with the Secret Service men. Then other
units came in - the Riot Squad. I thought I was going to film a gun fight.
They ran to the 4th floor and I went with them. Some of the other units
went to the top of the building. They were conducting a systematic search.
It boiled down to the sixth floor. After awhile it was obvious that the
assassin was not in the building. They looked for the gun. I filmed 400
ft. of film of the Secret Service men looking for the assassin, climbing
over boxes, over the rafters, and the actual finding of the gun. At the
time it was suspected that the assassin had stayed quite a time there.
There was a stack with a stack of chicken bones on it. There was a Dr.
Pepper bottle which they dusted for fingerprints. The fingerprints were
not Oswald's. You know how he piled the boxes up? The gun was found across
the length of the room from where he fired. It was stashed between boxes.
I had difficulty in filming. They did not want me closeto the window or to
the gun. I asked permission to go to the window to film. A Secret Service
man said, 'You are close enough.' I asked the Secret Service man to take
pictures of the stashed gun. I set the camera but he wiggled the camera. I
got a picture of them taking the gun from the hiding place and dusting it
for fingerprints. After this the Crime Lab man, Captain Will Fritz - and I
have footage of this - pulled the bolt back and a live round came out.
They dusted the gun for fingerprints. This was my third camera. They
wouldn't let me out of the building and they wouldn't let anyone else in.
I never saw my film on the air because I had to get the film to someone
outside. This was the first film from there. We had Mal Couch's film of
the crowd but not of the President being hit. [How did you get the film
out?] There's a story for you. I actually handed it out through the door
but it had been publicized over the air and established everywhere that I
had thrown it out of the building through a window. I hesitate to tell you
the real story. I started to throw it out of the building but being so
close and knowing that we had the other film, I wanted our station to be
the first to show a film of the assassination. A A.J. L'Hoste was under
the window. I yelled out to him. In actuality I tossed the film out the
front door to Ron Reiland who had gotten back from covering the
apprehension of Oswald at the Texas Theater. This was another ABC
exclusive. There were 2 policemen at the Depository door. They were not
sure that I should get things outside. Ron was outside and I was inside.
One of the policemen there called a Lieutenant and while they were calling
him, I threw the film out....."

------------------------------[quote off]



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Allan G. Johnson
2018-11-30 01:06:08 UTC
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Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Missed first shot in Walker attempt (didn't realize it til later) and
missed first shot in JFK attempt, didn't want to make same mistake twice,
took two more shots at JFK to be sure. Where's the conspiracy in that?
Sounds like the same guy to me.
The Walker shot was deflected by a wooden window pane divider. It was
reported that General Walker would have been a dead man had that bullet
not been deflected. For all we know, the same is true with regards to the
missed shot in the Kennedy assassination. There was no shortage of
possible obstructions during the time frame of the 1st shot. After all,
it's hard to imagine that Oswald turned into a crack shooter (2nd and 3rd
shot) after having missed the entire limousine with his 1st shot.
I think it's fair to say that something unusual happened with the 1st shot
- something beyond simply missing. But, again, I readily admit that I'm
speculating.
David Emerling
Memphis, TN
Some think he flinched at the first shot and pulled it, being too
close, could be he used the scope to sight but, being too close, the
target was moving too fast to be acquired properly or it wasn't zeroed in
to shoot at that close range, but most likely, the first shot deflected
off something because it missed the entire car just below him.
I like that very much. Can we call it equipment malfunction or rookie
error?
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Personally, I think the first shot deflected off the traffic light
signal, not the pole, and split up, parts (lead) going down range near
Tague, parts (copper) hitting pavement next to the limo. Either way, he
wasn't about to chance another miss and he kept firing until the target
was out of range. He did load the fourth shot remember but it wasn't
taken.
No. He did not load the fourth round. Friz the klutz did.
But Max could not find any holes. Don't you believe Max? What about
deflecting off the support bar?
Fritz loaded the fourth round? I think not. According to Lt. Carl
Day, Chief of the DPD crime scene search unit, after checking for prints,
he held the rifle "while Captain Fritz pulled the bolt and a live round
fell out". Day and Fritz both said a round was in the chamber of the
rifle when they were inspecting it.
Alyea saw him do it. He pulled the bolt back and an empty shell flew
out. Then he closed the bolt which put the live round in the chamber
then picked up the empty shell and threw the empty shells on the floor.
Why doesn't Alyea have film of any of that?
His statiion threw it away. outtakes. They said it was a fire hazard.
Haven't you read anything about Alyea?
Tom Alyea, "Facts and Photos"
From Connie Kritzberg's Secrets from the Sixth Floor Window, pp. 39-46
I was the first newsman into the building and the only newsman to
accompany the search team as they went from floor to floor searching for
the person who fired the shots. At this time, we did not know the
president had been hit. I rushed in with a group of plain clothesmen and a
few uniformed officers. . . .
I [followed] the search team that was on its way to the rear
elevator, to start the floor by floor search. We searched every floor, all
the way to the roof. The gunman could have still been in the building.
Finding nothing, they started back down. After approximately 18 minutes,
they were joined by Captain Fritz, who had first gone to Parkland
Hospital.
The barricade on the sixth floor ran parallel to the windows,
extending in an "L" shape that ended against the front wall between the
first and second twin windows. The height of the stack of boxes was a
minimum of 5 ft. I looked over the barricade and saw three shell casings
laying on the floor in front of the second window in the two window
casement. They were scattered in an area that could be covered by a bushel
basket. They were located about half way between the inside of the
barricade. I set my lens focus at the estimated distance from the camera
to the floor and held the camera over the top of the barricade and filmed
them before anybody went into the enclosure. I could not position my eye
to the camera's view finder to get the shot. After filming the casings
with my wide angle lens, from a height of 5 ft., I asked Captain Fritz,
who was standing at my side, if I could go behind the barricade and get a
close-up shot of the casings. He told me that it would be better if I got
my shots from outside the barricade. He then rounded the pile of boxes and
entered the enclosure. This was the first time anybody walked between the
barricade and the windows.
Fritz then walked to the casings, picked them up and held them in
his hand over the top of the boxes for me to get a close-up shot of the
evidence. I filmed about eight seconds of a close-up shot of the shell
casings in Captain Fritz's hand. I stopped filming, and thanked him. I do
not recall if he placed them in his pocket or returned them back to the
floor, because I was preoccupied with recording other views of the crime
scene. I have been asked many times if I thought it was peculiar that the
Captain of Homicide picked up evidence with his hands. Actually, that was
the first thought that came to me when he did it, but I rationalized that
he was the homicide expert and no prints could be taken from spent shell
casings. Therefore, any photograph of shell casings taken after this, is
staged and not correct. It is highly doubtful that the shell casings that
appear in Dallas police photos of the crime scene are the same casings
that were found originally. The originals by this time were probably in a
plastic bag at police headquarters. Why? Probably this was a missing link
in the report the police department had to send to the FBI and they had to
stage it and the barricade box placement to complete their report and
photo records.
The position of the barricade, while difficult to follow for one
who was not there, is important because of the difference in photographs
seen today.
There are four different box positions.
1) There was one box in the barricade stack that was considerably
higher than the others. This box is the one that can be seen
in the photos taken from outside the window by Tom Dillard,
because it was high enough to catch the sunlight and still be
seen from the ground below. It is not to be confused with the
second box set at an angle in the window sill, that was used
as a brace for the assassin's rifle.
2) A portion of this box can also be seen in these same photos
taken by Tom Dillard. It shows up in the lower right hand
corner of the picture.
3) Two boxes were stacked on the floor, inside the window, to
give arm support to the assassin. The top box was one of the
two boxes from which the crime lab lifted palm prints.
4) The fourth box of importance was on the floor behind the
sniper location. Officers also lifted palm prints from this
box. It is suspected that the sniper sat on this box while he
waited for the motorcade to pass.
The positioning of boxes 2, 3, and 4 were recorded by the police
crime lab. They are the only boxes involved in the crime scene.
The actual positioning of the barricade was never photographed by
the police. It s actual positioning is only on my movie footage, which was
taken before the police started dismantling the arrangement.
We all looked over the barricade to see if the half open window
with three boxes piled to form a shooting rest for a gunman. One box was
actually on the window sill, tilted at an angle. There was a reason for
this that I cover in my JFK Facts newsletter. The shooting location
consists of two windows set together to form one single window. (The
police photo showing the shell casings laying next to the brick wall was
staged later by crime lab people who did not see the original positioning
because they were not called upon the scene until after the rifle was
found nearly an hour later.) . . .
Only recently I saw a picture of Lt. Day with a news still
cameraman on the 6th floor. Day was shown pointing to the location where
the rifle was found. This was nearly 3:30 or after. It was my
understanding that Day and Studebaker had taken the prints, rifle and
homemade sack back to police headquarters. I personally would like to know
what they were doing back at the scene unless it was to reconstruct shots
they had failed to take during the primary investigation. But this
evidence had been destroyed and they were forced to create their own
version. The photo I have seen of the barricade wasn't even close. I have
also seen recently a police photo of the assassin's lair taken from a high
angle which indicates that it was shot before the barricade box
arrangement was destroyed, but it did not show the barricade itself. This
has no bearing on the case other than the public has never seen the
original placement. . . .
Police officers who claim they were on the 6th floor when the
assassin's window was found have reported that they saw chicken bones at
or near the site. One officer reported that he saw chicken bones on the
floor near the location. Another said he saw chicken bones on the
barricade boxes, while another reported that he saw chicken bones on the
box which was laying across the window sill. Some of these officers have
given testimony as to the location of the shell casings. Their testimony
differs and none of it is true. I have no idea why they are clinging to
these statements. They must have a reason. Perhaps it is because they put
it in a report and they must stick to it.
One officer stated that he found the assassin's location at the
6th floor window. He went on to say that as he and his fellow officers
were leaving the building, he passed Captain Fritz coming in. He said he
stopped briefly to tell Captain Fritz that he had found the assassin's
lair at the 6th floor window. This seems highly unlikely because Captain
Fritz joined us on the 5th floor and aided in the search. The chances are
great that this, or these officers heard the report, that stemmed from
WFAA-TV's incorrect announcement that the chicken bones were found on the
6th floor. This officer or officers perhaps used this information to
formulate their presence at the scene. There were no chicken bones found
on the 6th floor. We covered every inch of it and I filmed everything that
could possibly be suspected as evidence. There definitely were no chicken
bones were no chicken bones on or near the barricade or boxes at the
window. I shot close-up shots of the entire area. The most outstanding
puzzle as to why these officers are sticking to this story is the fact
they claim to have found the sniper's location, then left the building, as
they said to join the investigators at the Tippit shooting location. I
have never seen a report that indicates they attempted to use any
telephone in the building in an attempt to notify other investigators.
They just left the scene to check another assignment, and by chance ran
into Capt. Fritz coming in the front door. They claim to have placed a
detective at the location but they did not relay their finding to any
other officer before they left the building. I presume that the alleged
detective they allegedly left at the scene was instructed to stand there
until someone else stumbled upon the scene, or they found time to report
it after investigating the Tippit scene. Sorry, it doesn't wash.
I do however know that Officer Mooney was present when the rifle
was found because I took film of him at the scene. He is shown talking to
another detective, but this was nearly an hour after the sniper's location
was found at the window. I have no idea when he arrived. We ended up with
more men than when we started. As they joined us during the search the
latecomers would bring us the latest news of the president's condition.
When Captain Fritz arrived 18 minutes after we started, he brought news
that both Governor Connally and the president had been hit but by the time
he left, the seriousness of their wounds was unknown. Fritz left the
hospital almost immediately when he was notified that a search was
underway in the Texas School Book Depository for the sniper. We in the
search team had no phones, radios or TV sets. As I recall, we learned that
the president was dead about the time we found the rifle. I don't know who
brought us this word. Several officers arrived while we were waiting for
Lt. Day. One of them was Roger Craig, who is responsible for giving much
misinformation to the press. None of us were prepared to hear that the
president's wound was a fatal one. We thought perhaps it was a minor thing
or possibly a flesh wound. It was a stunning shock, and our attitude
[towards] the rifle had suddenly changed. We stared at the small portion
of the butt as it lay under the overhang boxes while we waited for Lt. Day
to arrive and recover the weapon that killed our president. . . .
We finished combing the 6th floor, looking for the assassin or
any other evidence. Finding nothing more at this time Captain Fritz
ordered all of us to the elevator and we started searching the 7th floor
and from there we went to the roof.
Nothing in the way of evidence was found so we retraced our
search back down, floor by floor. Shortly after we arrived back on the 6th
floor, Deputy Eugene Boone located the assassin's rifle almost completely
hidden by some overhanging boxes near the stairwell. I filmed it as it was
found. In my shot, the figure of Captain Fritz is standing within the
enclosure next to the rifle. He knew then that the possibility of a fire
fight with the sniper had greatly diminished. He dispatched one of his men
to go down and call for the crime lab. About fifteen minutes later, Lt.
Day and Studebaker arrived. Still pictures were taken of the positioning
of the rifle, then Lt. Day slid it out from its hiding place and held it
up for all of us to see. The world has seen my shot of this many times.
Lt. Day immediately turned toward the window behind him and started
dusting the weapon for fingerprints. Day was still within the enclosure
formed by the surrounding boxes. I filmed him lifting prints from the
rifle. He lifted them off with scotch tape and placed them on little white
cards. When he had finished, he handed the rifle to Captain Fritz. Fritz
pulled the bolt back and a live round ejected and landed on the boxes
below. Fritz put the cartridge in his pocket. I did not see Fritz pick up
anything other than the live round. . . .
I filmed Captain Fritz talking with associates in this dismantled
area [the "sniper's nest"], along with Studebaker, who was dusting the Dr.
Pepper bottle which had been brought up to him from the 5th floor. This is
all recorded on my film. I never learned if prints were lifted from the
pop bottle. I'm not sure if anybody ever asked.
I took the film from my camera, placed it back into its metal
can, wrapped the tape around it, and tossed it to our News Editor, A. J.
L'Hoste, who was waiting outside with the other newsmen who were not
allowed in the building. A. J. raced it to the television station which
was about three blocks away. About fifteen minutes later the world saw the
murder weapon, where it was found and pictures of the crime lab people
dusting it for fingerprints, and the shell casings that once housed those
bullets. They also saw how the assassin prepared for his ambush and the
view he had of the killing zone.
Addendum #1
A correspondent asked Tom Alyea about the accuracy of the above
Thanks for sending me the material from Connie Kritzberg's
"Secrets from The Sixth Floor." I never read the book. Many years ago she
interviewed me about what I saw during the search. I gave her some
pictures to use in her story. This is the first time I have seen the
story. I regret to say that there are some inaccuracies, which is to be
expected in an interview. You must remember that she was not on the sixth
floor. She was at her desk in the city room at the Dallas Times Herald
newspaper. It is disjointed and out of sequence, which makes it difficult
to follow. This is often the case when the interviewer asks the questions
and was not at the scene. Connie is a friend of mine, and a good reporter,
but I did not see the final draft before it went to press. There is always
the possibility that I failed to make my answers clear, and she derived a
different meaning. Please remember that these short statements contained
little detail and circumstances behind the situation.
I shall make a few corrections that I feel are necessary to
The average height of the barricade (Barricade #1) was four and a
half feet. I don't know how high this would be in the Metric scale.
My shot of the shell casings in Capt. Fritz's hand was between
three and four seconds.
(Important correction:) Take out the sentence that starts with,
"It is highly doubtful???"
My statement was that after Capt. Fritz held the casing over the
barricade for me to film, he turned to examine the shooting support boxes
on the windowsill. I couldn't see the captain put the casings in his coat
pocket because his coat pocket was below the top of the barricade. He did
not return them to the floor and he did not have them in his hand when he
was examining the shooting support boxes. Over thirty minutes later, after
the rifle was discovered and the crime lab arrived, Capt. Fritz reached
into his pocket and handed the casings to Det. Studebaker to include in
the photographs he would take of the sniper's nest crime scene. We stayed
at the rifle site to watch Lt. Day dust the rifle. You have seen my
footage of this. Studebaker never saw the original placement of the
casings so he tossed them on the floor and photographed them. Det.
Studebaker was alone at this site until after Lt. Day left the building
with the rifle. We in the search team went to the sniper's site.
Studebaker had already photographed the casings on the floor and was busy
dusting the pop bottle when we arrived. The casings were no longer on the
floor. I never saw them again. The barricade had been completely
dismantled and the boxes from the West side of the barricade had been
removed and placed in various locations around the site. We did not
realize at the time that Studebaker had not recorded on film the original
placement of the boxes in the barricade. He also had removed the shooting
support boxes on the window ledge and stacked them one on top of the other
on the floor inside. He took a picture of this reconstructed arrangement.
This is the view researchers have of the shooting support boxes that were
originally on the brick window ledge. The corner of the outside box was
positioned over the lower window channel that tilted the box at an angle.
(Important correction)???Take out the sentence that starts with,
"I have also seen recently???"
This high angle photograph was taken after the crime lab returned
to the sixth floor three days later 'Monday, November, twenty-five. Capt.
Fritz had seen the photographs and had directed the crime lab to correct
the shots of the window boxes and the casings on the floor. He had seen
the original placement and ordered the crime lab to correct it. Neither
Lt. Day nor Det. Studebaker had seen the original placement, so they
procured my film from the TV station to get it right. The high angle shot
(shots) were made to show the original placement. Their reconstruction was
close, but not exact. However, they did not bring the casings with them so
they did not make the correction of the original placement of the shell
casings.
(Important correction) Take out the sentence that starts with
:" I do however know that Officer Mooney???"
Mooney was a Sheriff's Deputy, not a police officer. He did not
arrive on the sixth floor until after the rifle was found and the search
was over.
(Important correction) Take out the sentence that starts with,
"He dispatched one of his men???"
Capt. Fritz did this after the shooting site was discovered, with
the instructions to have the crime lab men wait on the first floor when
they arrived. We were still looking for an armed gunman. We had only found
his shooting location. After the rifle was found, Capt. Fritz sent one of
his detectives down in the elevator to bring up the crime lab, because it
was obvious that the sniper had escaped and the threat of a firefight was
unlikely. The crime lab is never called to a scene that has not been
secured. I hope you researcher friends will realize this when the read the
police testimonies where they place Lt. Day at the shooting site crime
scene while we in the search team were still searching for an armed sniper
on the same floor. They had a noble reason for giving this false
testimony. They wanted to protect their boss, Capt. Fritz from possible
censure for picking up the casings before the crime lab arrived and
processed them. The easiest way was to place Lt. Day at the scene before
Capt. Fritz arrived. All this is detailed in my report.
Addendum #2
Subject: Re: Tom Alyea on the sixth floor evidence
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Date: 1999/07/04
compare Tom Alyea's more recent statements (posted by Dave Reitzes) with
------------------------------[quote on]
"...I ran on upstairs with the Secret Service men. Then other
units came in - the Riot Squad. I thought I was going to film a gun fight.
They ran to the 4th floor and I went with them. Some of the other units
went to the top of the building. They were conducting a systematic search.
It boiled down to the sixth floor. After awhile it was obvious that the
assassin was not in the building. They looked for the gun. I filmed 400
ft. of film of the Secret Service men looking for the assassin, climbing
over boxes, over the rafters, and the actual finding of the gun. At the
time it was suspected that the assassin had stayed quite a time there.
There was a stack with a stack of chicken bones on it. There was a Dr.
Pepper bottle which they dusted for fingerprints. The fingerprints were
not Oswald's. You know how he piled the boxes up? The gun was found across
the length of the room from where he fired. It was stashed between boxes.
I had difficulty in filming. They did not want me closeto the window or to
the gun. I asked permission to go to the window to film. A Secret Service
man said, 'You are close enough.' I asked the Secret Service man to take
pictures of the stashed gun. I set the camera but he wiggled the camera. I
got a picture of them taking the gun from the hiding place and dusting it
for fingerprints. After this the Crime Lab man, Captain Will Fritz - and I
have footage of this - pulled the bolt back and a live round came out.
They dusted the gun for fingerprints. This was my third camera. They
wouldn't let me out of the building and they wouldn't let anyone else in.
I never saw my film on the air because I had to get the film to someone
outside. This was the first film from there. We had Mal Couch's film of
the crowd but not of the President being hit. [How did you get the film
out?] There's a story for you. I actually handed it out through the door
but it had been publicized over the air and established everywhere that I
had thrown it out of the building through a window. I hesitate to tell you
the real story. I started to throw it out of the building but being so
close and knowing that we had the other film, I wanted our station to be
the first to show a film of the assassination. A A.J. L'Hoste was under
the window. I yelled out to him. In actuality I tossed the film out the
front door to Ron Reiland who had gotten back from covering the
apprehension of Oswald at the Texas Theater. This was another ABC
exclusive. There were 2 policemen at the Depository door. They were not
sure that I should get things outside. Ron was outside and I was inside.
One of the policemen there called a Lieutenant and while they were calling
him, I threw the film out....."
------------------------------[quote off]
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Dave Reitzes home page
So there is still no existing film of Fritz opening the bolt, that was
the question. Even in your excellent post, Alyea says Fritz opened the
bolt and a LIVE round fell out, which confirms what Day said, which also
confirms what Harold Norman said about hearing a final click, click (the
final round being loaded into the rifle but the shot not being taken).
Fritz did not eject an empty shell and then closed the bolt to allow the
live round to be loaded as you claimed.
Allan G. Johnson
2018-11-30 01:07:53 UTC
Reply
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Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Missed first shot in Walker attempt (didn't realize it til later) and
missed first shot in JFK attempt, didn't want to make same mistake twice,
took two more shots at JFK to be sure. Where's the conspiracy in that?
Sounds like the same guy to me.
The Walker shot was deflected by a wooden window pane divider. It was
reported that General Walker would have been a dead man had that bullet
not been deflected. For all we know, the same is true with regards to the
missed shot in the Kennedy assassination. There was no shortage of
possible obstructions during the time frame of the 1st shot. After all,
it's hard to imagine that Oswald turned into a crack shooter (2nd and 3rd
shot) after having missed the entire limousine with his 1st shot.
I think it's fair to say that something unusual happened with the 1st shot
- something beyond simply missing. But, again, I readily admit that I'm
speculating.
David Emerling
Memphis, TN
Some think he flinched at the first shot and pulled it, being too
close, could be he used the scope to sight but, being too close, the
target was moving too fast to be acquired properly or it wasn't zeroed in
to shoot at that close range, but most likely, the first shot deflected
off something because it missed the entire car just below him.
I like that very much. Can we call it equipment malfunction or rookie
error?
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Personally, I think the first shot deflected off the traffic light
signal, not the pole, and split up, parts (lead) going down range near
Tague, parts (copper) hitting pavement next to the limo. Either way, he
wasn't about to chance another miss and he kept firing until the target
was out of range. He did load the fourth shot remember but it wasn't
taken.
No. He did not load the fourth round. Friz the klutz did.
But Max could not find any holes. Don't you believe Max? What about
deflecting off the support bar?
Fritz loaded the fourth round? I think not. According to Lt. Carl
Day, Chief of the DPD crime scene search unit, after checking for prints,
he held the rifle "while Captain Fritz pulled the bolt and a live round
fell out". Day and Fritz both said a round was in the chamber of the
rifle when they were inspecting it.
Alyea saw him do it. He pulled the bolt back and an empty shell flew
out. Then he closed the bolt which put the live round in the chamber
then picked up the empty shell and threw the empty shells on the floor.
Why doesn't Alyea have film of any of that?
His statiion threw it away. outtakes. They said it was a fire hazard.
Haven't you read anything about Alyea?
Tom Alyea, "Facts and Photos"
From Connie Kritzberg's Secrets from the Sixth Floor Window, pp. 39-46
I was the first newsman into the building and the only newsman to
accompany the search team as they went from floor to floor searching for
the person who fired the shots. At this time, we did not know the
president had been hit. I rushed in with a group of plain clothesmen and a
few uniformed officers. . . .
I [followed] the search team that was on its way to the rear
elevator, to start the floor by floor search. We searched every floor, all
the way to the roof. The gunman could have still been in the building.
Finding nothing, they started back down. After approximately 18 minutes,
they were joined by Captain Fritz, who had first gone to Parkland
Hospital.
The barricade on the sixth floor ran parallel to the windows,
extending in an "L" shape that ended against the front wall between the
first and second twin windows. The height of the stack of boxes was a
minimum of 5 ft. I looked over the barricade and saw three shell casings
laying on the floor in front of the second window in the two window
casement. They were scattered in an area that could be covered by a bushel
basket. They were located about half way between the inside of the
barricade. I set my lens focus at the estimated distance from the camera
to the floor and held the camera over the top of the barricade and filmed
them before anybody went into the enclosure. I could not position my eye
to the camera's view finder to get the shot. After filming the casings
with my wide angle lens, from a height of 5 ft., I asked Captain Fritz,
who was standing at my side, if I could go behind the barricade and get a
close-up shot of the casings. He told me that it would be better if I got
my shots from outside the barricade. He then rounded the pile of boxes and
entered the enclosure. This was the first time anybody walked between the
barricade and the windows.
Fritz then walked to the casings, picked them up and held them in
his hand over the top of the boxes for me to get a close-up shot of the
evidence. I filmed about eight seconds of a close-up shot of the shell
casings in Captain Fritz's hand. I stopped filming, and thanked him. I do
not recall if he placed them in his pocket or returned them back to the
floor, because I was preoccupied with recording other views of the crime
scene. I have been asked many times if I thought it was peculiar that the
Captain of Homicide picked up evidence with his hands. Actually, that was
the first thought that came to me when he did it, but I rationalized that
he was the homicide expert and no prints could be taken from spent shell
casings. Therefore, any photograph of shell casings taken after this, is
staged and not correct. It is highly doubtful that the shell casings that
appear in Dallas police photos of the crime scene are the same casings
that were found originally. The originals by this time were probably in a
plastic bag at police headquarters. Why? Probably this was a missing link
in the report the police department had to send to the FBI and they had to
stage it and the barricade box placement to complete their report and
photo records.
The position of the barricade, while difficult to follow for one
who was not there, is important because of the difference in photographs
seen today.
There are four different box positions.
1) There was one box in the barricade stack that was considerably
higher than the others. This box is the one that can be seen
in the photos taken from outside the window by Tom Dillard,
because it was high enough to catch the sunlight and still be
seen from the ground below. It is not to be confused with the
second box set at an angle in the window sill, that was used
as a brace for the assassin's rifle.
2) A portion of this box can also be seen in these same photos
taken by Tom Dillard. It shows up in the lower right hand
corner of the picture.
3) Two boxes were stacked on the floor, inside the window, to
give arm support to the assassin. The top box was one of the
two boxes from which the crime lab lifted palm prints.
4) The fourth box of importance was on the floor behind the
sniper location. Officers also lifted palm prints from this
box. It is suspected that the sniper sat on this box while he
waited for the motorcade to pass.
The positioning of boxes 2, 3, and 4 were recorded by the police
crime lab. They are the only boxes involved in the crime scene.
The actual positioning of the barricade was never photographed by
the police. It s actual positioning is only on my movie footage, which was
taken before the police started dismantling the arrangement.
We all looked over the barricade to see if the half open window
with three boxes piled to form a shooting rest for a gunman. One box was
actually on the window sill, tilted at an angle. There was a reason for
this that I cover in my JFK Facts newsletter. The shooting location
consists of two windows set together to form one single window. (The
police photo showing the shell casings laying next to the brick wall was
staged later by crime lab people who did not see the original positioning
because they were not called upon the scene until after the rifle was
found nearly an hour later.) . . .
Only recently I saw a picture of Lt. Day with a news still
cameraman on the 6th floor. Day was shown pointing to the location where
the rifle was found. This was nearly 3:30 or after. It was my
understanding that Day and Studebaker had taken the prints, rifle and
homemade sack back to police headquarters. I personally would like to know
what they were doing back at the scene unless it was to reconstruct shots
they had failed to take during the primary investigation. But this
evidence had been destroyed and they were forced to create their own
version. The photo I have seen of the barricade wasn't even close. I have
also seen recently a police photo of the assassin's lair taken from a high
angle which indicates that it was shot before the barricade box
arrangement was destroyed, but it did not show the barricade itself. This
has no bearing on the case other than the public has never seen the
original placement. . . .
Police officers who claim they were on the 6th floor when the
assassin's window was found have reported that they saw chicken bones at
or near the site. One officer reported that he saw chicken bones on the
floor near the location. Another said he saw chicken bones on the
barricade boxes, while another reported that he saw chicken bones on the
box which was laying across the window sill. Some of these officers have
given testimony as to the location of the shell casings. Their testimony
differs and none of it is true. I have no idea why they are clinging to
these statements. They must have a reason. Perhaps it is because they put
it in a report and they must stick to it.
One officer stated that he found the assassin's location at the
6th floor window. He went on to say that as he and his fellow officers
were leaving the building, he passed Captain Fritz coming in. He said he
stopped briefly to tell Captain Fritz that he had found the assassin's
lair at the 6th floor window. This seems highly unlikely because Captain
Fritz joined us on the 5th floor and aided in the search. The chances are
great that this, or these officers heard the report, that stemmed from
WFAA-TV's incorrect announcement that the chicken bones were found on the
6th floor. This officer or officers perhaps used this information to
formulate their presence at the scene. There were no chicken bones found
on the 6th floor. We covered every inch of it and I filmed everything that
could possibly be suspected as evidence. There definitely were no chicken
bones were no chicken bones on or near the barricade or boxes at the
window. I shot close-up shots of the entire area. The most outstanding
puzzle as to why these officers are sticking to this story is the fact
they claim to have found the sniper's location, then left the building, as
they said to join the investigators at the Tippit shooting location. I
have never seen a report that indicates they attempted to use any
telephone in the building in an attempt to notify other investigators.
They just left the scene to check another assignment, and by chance ran
into Capt. Fritz coming in the front door. They claim to have placed a
detective at the location but they did not relay their finding to any
other officer before they left the building. I presume that the alleged
detective they allegedly left at the scene was instructed to stand there
until someone else stumbled upon the scene, or they found time to report
it after investigating the Tippit scene. Sorry, it doesn't wash.
I do however know that Officer Mooney was present when the rifle
was found because I took film of him at the scene. He is shown talking to
another detective, but this was nearly an hour after the sniper's location
was found at the window. I have no idea when he arrived. We ended up with
more men than when we started. As they joined us during the search the
latecomers would bring us the latest news of the president's condition.
When Captain Fritz arrived 18 minutes after we started, he brought news
that both Governor Connally and the president had been hit but by the time
he left, the seriousness of their wounds was unknown. Fritz left the
hospital almost immediately when he was notified that a search was
underway in the Texas School Book Depository for the sniper. We in the
search team had no phones, radios or TV sets. As I recall, we learned that
the president was dead about the time we found the rifle. I don't know who
brought us this word. Several officers arrived while we were waiting for
Lt. Day. One of them was Roger Craig, who is responsible for giving much
misinformation to the press. None of us were prepared to hear that the
president's wound was a fatal one. We thought perhaps it was a minor thing
or possibly a flesh wound. It was a stunning shock, and our attitude
[towards] the rifle had suddenly changed. We stared at the small portion
of the butt as it lay under the overhang boxes while we waited for Lt. Day
to arrive and recover the weapon that killed our president. . . .
We finished combing the 6th floor, looking for the assassin or
any other evidence. Finding nothing more at this time Captain Fritz
ordered all of us to the elevator and we started searching the 7th floor
and from there we went to the roof.
Nothing in the way of evidence was found so we retraced our
search back down, floor by floor. Shortly after we arrived back on the 6th
floor, Deputy Eugene Boone located the assassin's rifle almost completely
hidden by some overhanging boxes near the stairwell. I filmed it as it was
found. In my shot, the figure of Captain Fritz is standing within the
enclosure next to the rifle. He knew then that the possibility of a fire
fight with the sniper had greatly diminished. He dispatched one of his men
to go down and call for the crime lab. About fifteen minutes later, Lt.
Day and Studebaker arrived. Still pictures were taken of the positioning
of the rifle, then Lt. Day slid it out from its hiding place and held it
up for all of us to see. The world has seen my shot of this many times.
Lt. Day immediately turned toward the window behind him and started
dusting the weapon for fingerprints. Day was still within the enclosure
formed by the surrounding boxes. I filmed him lifting prints from the
rifle. He lifted them off with scotch tape and placed them on little white
cards. When he had finished, he handed the rifle to Captain Fritz. Fritz
pulled the bolt back and a live round ejected and landed on the boxes
below. Fritz put the cartridge in his pocket. I did not see Fritz pick up
anything other than the live round. . . .
I filmed Captain Fritz talking with associates in this dismantled
area [the "sniper's nest"], along with Studebaker, who was dusting the Dr.
Pepper bottle which had been brought up to him from the 5th floor. This is
all recorded on my film. I never learned if prints were lifted from the
pop bottle. I'm not sure if anybody ever asked.
I took the film from my camera, placed it back into its metal
can, wrapped the tape around it, and tossed it to our News Editor, A. J.
L'Hoste, who was waiting outside with the other newsmen who were not
allowed in the building. A. J. raced it to the television station which
was about three blocks away. About fifteen minutes later the world saw the
murder weapon, where it was found and pictures of the crime lab people
dusting it for fingerprints, and the shell casings that once housed those
bullets. They also saw how the assassin prepared for his ambush and the
view he had of the killing zone.
Addendum #1
A correspondent asked Tom Alyea about the accuracy of the above
Thanks for sending me the material from Connie Kritzberg's
"Secrets from The Sixth Floor." I never read the book. Many years ago she
interviewed me about what I saw during the search. I gave her some
pictures to use in her story. This is the first time I have seen the
story. I regret to say that there are some inaccuracies, which is to be
expected in an interview. You must remember that she was not on the sixth
floor. She was at her desk in the city room at the Dallas Times Herald
newspaper. It is disjointed and out of sequence, which makes it difficult
to follow. This is often the case when the interviewer asks the questions
and was not at the scene. Connie is a friend of mine, and a good reporter,
but I did not see the final draft before it went to press. There is always
the possibility that I failed to make my answers clear, and she derived a
different meaning. Please remember that these short statements contained
little detail and circumstances behind the situation.
I shall make a few corrections that I feel are necessary to
The average height of the barricade (Barricade #1) was four and a
half feet. I don't know how high this would be in the Metric scale.
My shot of the shell casings in Capt. Fritz's hand was between
three and four seconds.
(Important correction:) Take out the sentence that starts with,
"It is highly doubtful???"
My statement was that after Capt. Fritz held the casing over the
barricade for me to film, he turned to examine the shooting support boxes
on the windowsill. I couldn't see the captain put the casings in his coat
pocket because his coat pocket was below the top of the barricade. He did
not return them to the floor and he did not have them in his hand when he
was examining the shooting support boxes. Over thirty minutes later, after
the rifle was discovered and the crime lab arrived, Capt. Fritz reached
into his pocket and handed the casings to Det. Studebaker to include in
the photographs he would take of the sniper's nest crime scene. We stayed
at the rifle site to watch Lt. Day dust the rifle. You have seen my
footage of this. Studebaker never saw the original placement of the
casings so he tossed them on the floor and photographed them. Det.
Studebaker was alone at this site until after Lt. Day left the building
with the rifle. We in the search team went to the sniper's site.
Studebaker had already photographed the casings on the floor and was busy
dusting the pop bottle when we arrived. The casings were no longer on the
floor. I never saw them again. The barricade had been completely
dismantled and the boxes from the West side of the barricade had been
removed and placed in various locations around the site. We did not
realize at the time that Studebaker had not recorded on film the original
placement of the boxes in the barricade. He also had removed the shooting
support boxes on the window ledge and stacked them one on top of the other
on the floor inside. He took a picture of this reconstructed arrangement.
This is the view researchers have of the shooting support boxes that were
originally on the brick window ledge. The corner of the outside box was
positioned over the lower window channel that tilted the box at an angle.
(Important correction)???Take out the sentence that starts with,
"I have also seen recently???"
This high angle photograph was taken after the crime lab returned
to the sixth floor three days later 'Monday, November, twenty-five. Capt.
Fritz had seen the photographs and had directed the crime lab to correct
the shots of the window boxes and the casings on the floor. He had seen
the original placement and ordered the crime lab to correct it. Neither
Lt. Day nor Det. Studebaker had seen the original placement, so they
procured my film from the TV station to get it right. The high angle shot
(shots) were made to show the original placement. Their reconstruction was
close, but not exact. However, they did not bring the casings with them so
they did not make the correction of the original placement of the shell
casings.
(Important correction) Take out the sentence that starts with
:" I do however know that Officer Mooney???"
Mooney was a Sheriff's Deputy, not a police officer. He did not
arrive on the sixth floor until after the rifle was found and the search
was over.
(Important correction) Take out the sentence that starts with,
"He dispatched one of his men???"
Capt. Fritz did this after the shooting site was discovered, with
the instructions to have the crime lab men wait on the first floor when
they arrived. We were still looking for an armed gunman. We had only found
his shooting location. After the rifle was found, Capt. Fritz sent one of
his detectives down in the elevator to bring up the crime lab, because it
was obvious that the sniper had escaped and the threat of a firefight was
unlikely. The crime lab is never called to a scene that has not been
secured. I hope you researcher friends will realize this when the read the
police testimonies where they place Lt. Day at the shooting site crime
scene while we in the search team were still searching for an armed sniper
on the same floor. They had a noble reason for giving this false
testimony. They wanted to protect their boss, Capt. Fritz from possible
censure for picking up the casings before the crime lab arrived and
processed them. The easiest way was to place Lt. Day at the scene before
Capt. Fritz arrived. All this is detailed in my report.
Addendum #2
Subject: Re: Tom Alyea on the sixth floor evidence
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Date: 1999/07/04
compare Tom Alyea's more recent statements (posted by Dave Reitzes) with
------------------------------[quote on]
"...I ran on upstairs with the Secret Service men. Then other
units came in - the Riot Squad. I thought I was going to film a gun fight.
They ran to the 4th floor and I went with them. Some of the other units
went to the top of the building. They were conducting a systematic search.
It boiled down to the sixth floor. After awhile it was obvious that the
assassin was not in the building. They looked for the gun. I filmed 400
ft. of film of the Secret Service men looking for the assassin, climbing
over boxes, over the rafters, and the actual finding of the gun. At the
time it was suspected that the assassin had stayed quite a time there.
There was a stack with a stack of chicken bones on it. There was a Dr.
Pepper bottle which they dusted for fingerprints. The fingerprints were
not Oswald's. You know how he piled the boxes up? The gun was found across
the length of the room from where he fired. It was stashed between boxes.
I had difficulty in filming. They did not want me closeto the window or to
the gun. I asked permission to go to the window to film. A Secret Service
man said, 'You are close enough.' I asked the Secret Service man to take
pictures of the stashed gun. I set the camera but he wiggled the camera. I
got a picture of them taking the gun from the hiding place and dusting it
for fingerprints. After this the Crime Lab man, Captain Will Fritz - and I
have footage of this - pulled the bolt back and a live round came out.
They dusted the gun for fingerprints. This was my third camera. They
wouldn't let me out of the building and they wouldn't let anyone else in.
I never saw my film on the air because I had to get the film to someone
outside. This was the first film from there. We had Mal Couch's film of
the crowd but not of the President being hit. [How did you get the film
out?] There's a story for you. I actually handed it out through the door
but it had been publicized over the air and established everywhere that I
had thrown it out of the building through a window. I hesitate to tell you
the real story. I started to throw it out of the building but being so
close and knowing that we had the other film, I wanted our station to be
the first to show a film of the assassination. A A.J. L'Hoste was under
the window. I yelled out to him. In actuality I tossed the film out the
front door to Ron Reiland who had gotten back from covering the
apprehension of Oswald at the Texas Theater. This was another ABC
exclusive. There were 2 policemen at the Depository door. They were not
sure that I should get things outside. Ron was outside and I was inside.
One of the policemen there called a Lieutenant and while they were calling
him, I threw the film out....."
------------------------------[quote off]
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Dave Reitzes home page
Also, according to Alyea, he FILMED 3 shells in the snipers nest on the
floor before anyone, including Fritz, touched or moved them. This helps
confirm that there were three shots taken and three shots heard by most
witnesses. Fritz moving them doesn't change that fact, only questions
whether you can determine anything by the position they were PHOTOGRAPHED
in.
bigdog
2018-11-30 01:23:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Missed first shot in Walker attempt (didn't realize it til later) and
missed first shot in JFK attempt, didn't want to make same mistake twice,
took two more shots at JFK to be sure. Where's the conspiracy in that?
Sounds like the same guy to me.
The Walker shot was deflected by a wooden window pane divider. It was
reported that General Walker would have been a dead man had that bullet
not been deflected. For all we know, the same is true with regards to the
missed shot in the Kennedy assassination. There was no shortage of
possible obstructions during the time frame of the 1st shot. After all,
it's hard to imagine that Oswald turned into a crack shooter (2nd and 3rd
shot) after having missed the entire limousine with his 1st shot.
I think it's fair to say that something unusual happened with the 1st shot
- something beyond simply missing. But, again, I readily admit that I'm
speculating.
David Emerling
Memphis, TN
Some think he flinched at the first shot and pulled it, being too
close, could be he used the scope to sight but, being too close, the
target was moving too fast to be acquired properly or it wasn't zeroed in
to shoot at that close range, but most likely, the first shot deflected
off something because it missed the entire car just below him.
I like that very much. Can we call it equipment malfunction or rookie
error?
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Personally, I think the first shot deflected off the traffic light
signal, not the pole, and split up, parts (lead) going down range near
Tague, parts (copper) hitting pavement next to the limo. Either way, he
wasn't about to chance another miss and he kept firing until the target
was out of range. He did load the fourth shot remember but it wasn't
taken.
No. He did not load the fourth round. Friz the klutz did.
But Max could not find any holes. Don't you believe Max? What about
deflecting off the support bar?
Fritz loaded the fourth round? I think not. According to Lt. Carl
Day, Chief of the DPD crime scene search unit, after checking for prints,
he held the rifle "while Captain Fritz pulled the bolt and a live round
fell out". Day and Fritz both said a round was in the chamber of the
rifle when they were inspecting it.
Alyea saw him do it. He pulled the bolt back and an empty shell flew
out. Then he closed the bolt which put the live round in the chamber
then picked up the empty shell and threw the empty shells on the floor.
Why doesn't Alyea have film of any of that?
His statiion threw it away. outtakes. They said it was a fire hazard.
Haven't you read anything about Alyea?
The old "the dog ate my evidence excuse. So if the film was thrown out, you are
relying on the witness (Alyea).
Post by Anthony Marsh
Tom Alyea, "Facts and Photos"
From Connie Kritzberg's Secrets from the Sixth Floor Window, pp. 39-46
I was the first newsman into the building and the only newsman to
accompany the search team as they went from floor to floor searching for
the person who fired the shots. At this time, we did not know the
president had been hit. I rushed in with a group of plain clothesmen and a
few uniformed officers. . . .
I [followed] the search team that was on its way to the rear
elevator, to start the floor by floor search. We searched every floor, all
the way to the roof. The gunman could have still been in the building.
Finding nothing, they started back down. After approximately 18 minutes,
they were joined by Captain Fritz, who had first gone to Parkland
Hospital.
The barricade on the sixth floor ran parallel to the windows,
extending in an "L" shape that ended against the front wall between the
first and second twin windows. The height of the stack of boxes was a
minimum of 5 ft. I looked over the barricade and saw three shell casings
laying on the floor in front of the second window in the two window
casement. They were scattered in an area that could be covered by a bushel
basket. They were located about half way between the inside of the
barricade. I set my lens focus at the estimated distance from the camera
to the floor and held the camera over the top of the barricade and filmed
them before anybody went into the enclosure. I could not position my eye
to the camera's view finder to get the shot. After filming the casings
with my wide angle lens, from a height of 5 ft., I asked Captain Fritz,
who was standing at my side, if I could go behind the barricade and get a
close-up shot of the casings. He told me that it would be better if I got
my shots from outside the barricade. He then rounded the pile of boxes and
entered the enclosure. This was the first time anybody walked between the
barricade and the windows.
Fritz then walked to the casings, picked them up and held them in
his hand over the top of the boxes for me to get a close-up shot of the
evidence. I filmed about eight seconds of a close-up shot of the shell
casings in Captain Fritz's hand. I stopped filming, and thanked him. I do
not recall if he placed them in his pocket or returned them back to the
floor, because I was preoccupied with recording other views of the crime
scene. I have been asked many times if I thought it was peculiar that the
Captain of Homicide picked up evidence with his hands. Actually, that was
the first thought that came to me when he did it, but I rationalized that
he was the homicide expert and no prints could be taken from spent shell
casings. Therefore, any photograph of shell casings taken after this, is
staged and not correct. It is highly doubtful that the shell casings that
appear in Dallas police photos of the crime scene are the same casings
that were found originally. The originals by this time were probably in a
plastic bag at police headquarters. Why? Probably this was a missing link
in the report the police department had to send to the FBI and they had to
stage it and the barricade box placement to complete their report and
photo records.
The position of the barricade, while difficult to follow for one
who was not there, is important because of the difference in photographs
seen today.
There are four different box positions.
1) There was one box in the barricade stack that was considerably
higher than the others. This box is the one that can be seen
in the photos taken from outside the window by Tom Dillard,
because it was high enough to catch the sunlight and still be
seen from the ground below. It is not to be confused with the
second box set at an angle in the window sill, that was used
as a brace for the assassin's rifle.
2) A portion of this box can also be seen in these same photos
taken by Tom Dillard. It shows up in the lower right hand
corner of the picture.
3) Two boxes were stacked on the floor, inside the window, to
give arm support to the assassin. The top box was one of the
two boxes from which the crime lab lifted palm prints.
4) The fourth box of importance was on the floor behind the
sniper location. Officers also lifted palm prints from this
box. It is suspected that the sniper sat on this box while he
waited for the motorcade to pass.
The positioning of boxes 2, 3, and 4 were recorded by the police
crime lab. They are the only boxes involved in the crime scene.
The actual positioning of the barricade was never photographed by
the police. It s actual positioning is only on my movie footage, which was
taken before the police started dismantling the arrangement.
We all looked over the barricade to see if the half open window
with three boxes piled to form a shooting rest for a gunman. One box was
actually on the window sill, tilted at an angle. There was a reason for
this that I cover in my JFK Facts newsletter. The shooting location
consists of two windows set together to form one single window. (The
police photo showing the shell casings laying next to the brick wall was
staged later by crime lab people who did not see the original positioning
because they were not called upon the scene until after the rifle was
found nearly an hour later.) . . .
Only recently I saw a picture of Lt. Day with a news still
cameraman on the 6th floor. Day was shown pointing to the location where
the rifle was found. This was nearly 3:30 or after. It was my
understanding that Day and Studebaker had taken the prints, rifle and
homemade sack back to police headquarters. I personally would like to know
what they were doing back at the scene unless it was to reconstruct shots
they had failed to take during the primary investigation. But this
evidence had been destroyed and they were forced to create their own
version. The photo I have seen of the barricade wasn't even close. I have
also seen recently a police photo of the assassin's lair taken from a high
angle which indicates that it was shot before the barricade box
arrangement was destroyed, but it did not show the barricade itself. This
has no bearing on the case other than the public has never seen the
original placement. . . .
Police officers who claim they were on the 6th floor when the
assassin's window was found have reported that they saw chicken bones at
or near the site. One officer reported that he saw chicken bones on the
floor near the location. Another said he saw chicken bones on the
barricade boxes, while another reported that he saw chicken bones on the
box which was laying across the window sill. Some of these officers have
given testimony as to the location of the shell casings. Their testimony
differs and none of it is true. I have no idea why they are clinging to
these statements. They must have a reason. Perhaps it is because they put
it in a report and they must stick to it.
One officer stated that he found the assassin's location at the
6th floor window. He went on to say that as he and his fellow officers
were leaving the building, he passed Captain Fritz coming in. He said he
stopped briefly to tell Captain Fritz that he had found the assassin's
lair at the 6th floor window. This seems highly unlikely because Captain
Fritz joined us on the 5th floor and aided in the search. The chances are
great that this, or these officers heard the report, that stemmed from
WFAA-TV's incorrect announcement that the chicken bones were found on the
6th floor. This officer or officers perhaps used this information to
formulate their presence at the scene. There were no chicken bones found
on the 6th floor. We covered every inch of it and I filmed everything that
could possibly be suspected as evidence. There definitely were no chicken
bones were no chicken bones on or near the barricade or boxes at the
window. I shot close-up shots of the entire area. The most outstanding
puzzle as to why these officers are sticking to this story is the fact
they claim to have found the sniper's location, then left the building, as
they said to join the investigators at the Tippit shooting location. I
have never seen a report that indicates they attempted to use any
telephone in the building in an attempt to notify other investigators.
They just left the scene to check another assignment, and by chance ran
into Capt. Fritz coming in the front door. They claim to have placed a
detective at the location but they did not relay their finding to any
other officer before they left the building. I presume that the alleged
detective they allegedly left at the scene was instructed to stand there
until someone else stumbled upon the scene, or they found time to report
it after investigating the Tippit scene. Sorry, it doesn't wash.
I do however know that Officer Mooney was present when the rifle
was found because I took film of him at the scene. He is shown talking to
another detective, but this was nearly an hour after the sniper's location
was found at the window. I have no idea when he arrived. We ended up with
more men than when we started. As they joined us during the search the
latecomers would bring us the latest news of the president's condition.
When Captain Fritz arrived 18 minutes after we started, he brought news
that both Governor Connally and the president had been hit but by the time
he left, the seriousness of their wounds was unknown. Fritz left the
hospital almost immediately when he was notified that a search was
underway in the Texas School Book Depository for the sniper. We in the
search team had no phones, radios or TV sets. As I recall, we learned that
the president was dead about the time we found the rifle. I don't know who
brought us this word. Several officers arrived while we were waiting for
Lt. Day. One of them was Roger Craig, who is responsible for giving much
misinformation to the press. None of us were prepared to hear that the
president's wound was a fatal one. We thought perhaps it was a minor thing
or possibly a flesh wound. It was a stunning shock, and our attitude
[towards] the rifle had suddenly changed. We stared at the small portion
of the butt as it lay under the overhang boxes while we waited for Lt. Day
to arrive and recover the weapon that killed our president. . . .
We finished combing the 6th floor, looking for the assassin or
any other evidence. Finding nothing more at this time Captain Fritz
ordered all of us to the elevator and we started searching the 7th floor
and from there we went to the roof.
Nothing in the way of evidence was found so we retraced our
search back down, floor by floor. Shortly after we arrived back on the 6th
floor, Deputy Eugene Boone located the assassin's rifle almost completely
hidden by some overhanging boxes near the stairwell. I filmed it as it was
found. In my shot, the figure of Captain Fritz is standing within the
enclosure next to the rifle. He knew then that the possibility of a fire
fight with the sniper had greatly diminished. He dispatched one of his men
to go down and call for the crime lab. About fifteen minutes later, Lt.
Day and Studebaker arrived. Still pictures were taken of the positioning
of the rifle, then Lt. Day slid it out from its hiding place and held it
up for all of us to see. The world has seen my shot of this many times.
Lt. Day immediately turned toward the window behind him and started
dusting the weapon for fingerprints. Day was still within the enclosure
formed by the surrounding boxes. I filmed him lifting prints from the
rifle. He lifted them off with scotch tape and placed them on little white
cards. When he had finished, he handed the rifle to Captain Fritz. Fritz
pulled the bolt back and a live round ejected and landed on the boxes
below. Fritz put the cartridge in his pocket. I did not see Fritz pick up
anything other than the live round. . . .
I filmed Captain Fritz talking with associates in this dismantled
area [the "sniper's nest"], along with Studebaker, who was dusting the Dr.
Pepper bottle which had been brought up to him from the 5th floor. This is
all recorded on my film. I never learned if prints were lifted from the
pop bottle. I'm not sure if anybody ever asked.
I took the film from my camera, placed it back into its metal
can, wrapped the tape around it, and tossed it to our News Editor, A. J.
L'Hoste, who was waiting outside with the other newsmen who were not
allowed in the building. A. J. raced it to the television station which
was about three blocks away. About fifteen minutes later the world saw the
murder weapon, where it was found and pictures of the crime lab people
dusting it for fingerprints, and the shell casings that once housed those
bullets. They also saw how the assassin prepared for his ambush and the
view he had of the killing zone.
Addendum #1
A correspondent asked Tom Alyea about the accuracy of the above
Thanks for sending me the material from Connie Kritzberg's
"Secrets from The Sixth Floor." I never read the book. Many years ago she
interviewed me about what I saw during the search. I gave her some
pictures to use in her story. This is the first time I have seen the
story. I regret to say that there are some inaccuracies, which is to be
expected in an interview. You must remember that she was not on the sixth
floor. She was at her desk in the city room at the Dallas Times Herald
newspaper. It is disjointed and out of sequence, which makes it difficult
to follow. This is often the case when the interviewer asks the questions
and was not at the scene. Connie is a friend of mine, and a good reporter,
but I did not see the final draft before it went to press. There is always
the possibility that I failed to make my answers clear, and she derived a
different meaning. Please remember that these short statements contained
little detail and circumstances behind the situation.
I shall make a few corrections that I feel are necessary to
The average height of the barricade (Barricade #1) was four and a
half feet. I don't know how high this would be in the Metric scale.
My shot of the shell casings in Capt. Fritz's hand was between
three and four seconds.
(Important correction:) Take out the sentence that starts with,
"It is highly doubtful???"
My statement was that after Capt. Fritz held the casing over the
barricade for me to film, he turned to examine the shooting support boxes
on the windowsill. I couldn't see the captain put the casings in his coat
pocket because his coat pocket was below the top of the barricade. He did
not return them to the floor and he did not have them in his hand when he
was examining the shooting support boxes. Over thirty minutes later, after
the rifle was discovered and the crime lab arrived, Capt. Fritz reached
into his pocket and handed the casings to Det. Studebaker to include in
the photographs he would take of the sniper's nest crime scene. We stayed
at the rifle site to watch Lt. Day dust the rifle. You have seen my
footage of this. Studebaker never saw the original placement of the
casings so he tossed them on the floor and photographed them. Det.
Studebaker was alone at this site until after Lt. Day left the building
with the rifle. We in the search team went to the sniper's site.
Studebaker had already photographed the casings on the floor and was busy
dusting the pop bottle when we arrived. The casings were no longer on the
floor. I never saw them again. The barricade had been completely
dismantled and the boxes from the West side of the barricade had been
removed and placed in various locations around the site. We did not
realize at the time that Studebaker had not recorded on film the original
placement of the boxes in the barricade. He also had removed the shooting
support boxes on the window ledge and stacked them one on top of the other
on the floor inside. He took a picture of this reconstructed arrangement.
This is the view researchers have of the shooting support boxes that were
originally on the brick window ledge. The corner of the outside box was
positioned over the lower window channel that tilted the box at an angle.
(Important correction)???Take out the sentence that starts with,
"I have also seen recently???"
This high angle photograph was taken after the crime lab returned
to the sixth floor three days later 'Monday, November, twenty-five. Capt.
Fritz had seen the photographs and had directed the crime lab to correct
the shots of the window boxes and the casings on the floor. He had seen
the original placement and ordered the crime lab to correct it. Neither
Lt. Day nor Det. Studebaker had seen the original placement, so they
procured my film from the TV station to get it right. The high angle shot
(shots) were made to show the original placement. Their reconstruction was
close, but not exact. However, they did not bring the casings with them so
they did not make the correction of the original placement of the shell
casings.
(Important correction) Take out the sentence that starts with
:" I do however know that Officer Mooney???"
Mooney was a Sheriff's Deputy, not a police officer. He did not
arrive on the sixth floor until after the rifle was found and the search
was over.
(Important correction) Take out the sentence that starts with,
"He dispatched one of his men???"
Capt. Fritz did this after the shooting site was discovered, with
the instructions to have the crime lab men wait on the first floor when
they arrived. We were still looking for an armed gunman. We had only found
his shooting location. After the rifle was found, Capt. Fritz sent one of
his detectives down in the elevator to bring up the crime lab, because it
was obvious that the sniper had escaped and the threat of a firefight was
unlikely. The crime lab is never called to a scene that has not been
secured. I hope you researcher friends will realize this when the read the
police testimonies where they place Lt. Day at the shooting site crime
scene while we in the search team were still searching for an armed sniper
on the same floor. They had a noble reason for giving this false
testimony. They wanted to protect their boss, Capt. Fritz from possible
censure for picking up the casings before the crime lab arrived and
processed them. The easiest way was to place Lt. Day at the scene before
Capt. Fritz arrived. All this is detailed in my report.
Addendum #2
Subject: Re: Tom Alyea on the sixth floor evidence
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Date: 1999/07/04
compare Tom Alyea's more recent statements (posted by Dave Reitzes) with
------------------------------[quote on]
"...I ran on upstairs with the Secret Service men. Then other
units came in - the Riot Squad. I thought I was going to film a gun fight.
They ran to the 4th floor and I went with them. Some of the other units
went to the top of the building. They were conducting a systematic search.
It boiled down to the sixth floor. After awhile it was obvious that the
assassin was not in the building. They looked for the gun. I filmed 400
ft. of film of the Secret Service men looking for the assassin, climbing
over boxes, over the rafters, and the actual finding of the gun. At the
time it was suspected that the assassin had stayed quite a time there.
There was a stack with a stack of chicken bones on it. There was a Dr.
Pepper bottle which they dusted for fingerprints. The fingerprints were
not Oswald's. You know how he piled the boxes up? The gun was found across
the length of the room from where he fired. It was stashed between boxes.
I had difficulty in filming. They did not want me closeto the window or to
the gun. I asked permission to go to the window to film. A Secret Service
man said, 'You are close enough.' I asked the Secret Service man to take
pictures of the stashed gun. I set the camera but he wiggled the camera. I
got a picture of them taking the gun from the hiding place and dusting it
for fingerprints. After this the Crime Lab man, Captain Will Fritz - and I
have footage of this - pulled the bolt back and a live round came out.
They dusted the gun for fingerprints. This was my third camera. They
wouldn't let me out of the building and they wouldn't let anyone else in.
I never saw my film on the air because I had to get the film to someone
outside. This was the first film from there. We had Mal Couch's film of
the crowd but not of the President being hit. [How did you get the film
out?] There's a story for you. I actually handed it out through the door
but it had been publicized over the air and established everywhere that I
had thrown it out of the building through a window. I hesitate to tell you
the real story. I started to throw it out of the building but being so
close and knowing that we had the other film, I wanted our station to be
the first to show a film of the assassination. A A.J. L'Hoste was under
the window. I yelled out to him. In actuality I tossed the film out the
front door to Ron Reiland who had gotten back from covering the
apprehension of Oswald at the Texas Theater. This was another ABC
exclusive. There were 2 policemen at the Depository door. They were not
sure that I should get things outside. Ron was outside and I was inside.
One of the policemen there called a Lieutenant and while they were calling
him, I threw the film out....."
------------------------------[quote off]
Seems like you are relying an awful lot on Alyea.
Anthony Marsh
2018-12-02 04:36:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Missed first shot in Walker attempt (didn't realize it til later) and
missed first shot in JFK attempt, didn't want to make same mistake twice,
took two more shots at JFK to be sure. Where's the conspiracy in that?
Sounds like the same guy to me.
The Walker shot was deflected by a wooden window pane divider. It was
reported that General Walker would have been a dead man had that bullet
not been deflected. For all we know, the same is true with regards to the
missed shot in the Kennedy assassination. There was no shortage of
possible obstructions during the time frame of the 1st shot. After all,
it's hard to imagine that Oswald turned into a crack shooter (2nd and 3rd
shot) after having missed the entire limousine with his 1st shot.
I think it's fair to say that something unusual happened with the 1st shot
- something beyond simply missing. But, again, I readily admit that I'm
speculating.
David Emerling
Memphis, TN
Some think he flinched at the first shot and pulled it, being too
close, could be he used the scope to sight but, being too close, the
target was moving too fast to be acquired properly or it wasn't zeroed in
to shoot at that close range, but most likely, the first shot deflected
off something because it missed the entire car just below him.
I like that very much. Can we call it equipment malfunction or rookie
error?
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Personally, I think the first shot deflected off the traffic light
signal, not the pole, and split up, parts (lead) going down range near
Tague, parts (copper) hitting pavement next to the limo. Either way, he
wasn't about to chance another miss and he kept firing until the target
was out of range. He did load the fourth shot remember but it wasn't
taken.
No. He did not load the fourth round. Friz the klutz did.
But Max could not find any holes. Don't you believe Max? What about
deflecting off the support bar?
Fritz loaded the fourth round? I think not. According to Lt. Carl
Day, Chief of the DPD crime scene search unit, after checking for prints,
he held the rifle "while Captain Fritz pulled the bolt and a live round
fell out". Day and Fritz both said a round was in the chamber of the
rifle when they were inspecting it.
Alyea saw him do it. He pulled the bolt back and an empty shell flew
out. Then he closed the bolt which put the live round in the chamber
then picked up the empty shell and threw the empty shells on the floor.
Why doesn't Alyea have film of any of that?
His statiion threw it away. outtakes. They said it was a fire hazard.
Haven't you read anything about Alyea?
The old "the dog ate my evidence excuse. So if the film was thrown out, you are
relying on the witness (Alyea).
Post by Anthony Marsh
Tom Alyea, "Facts and Photos"
From Connie Kritzberg's Secrets from the Sixth Floor Window, pp. 39-46
I was the first newsman into the building and the only newsman to
accompany the search team as they went from floor to floor searching for
the person who fired the shots. At this time, we did not know the
president had been hit. I rushed in with a group of plain clothesmen and a
few uniformed officers. . . .
I [followed] the search team that was on its way to the rear
elevator, to start the floor by floor search. We searched every floor, all
the way to the roof. The gunman could have still been in the building.
Finding nothing, they started back down. After approximately 18 minutes,
they were joined by Captain Fritz, who had first gone to Parkland
Hospital.
The barricade on the sixth floor ran parallel to the windows,
extending in an "L" shape that ended against the front wall between the
first and second twin windows. The height of the stack of boxes was a
minimum of 5 ft. I looked over the barricade and saw three shell casings
laying on the floor in front of the second window in the two window
casement. They were scattered in an area that could be covered by a bushel
basket. They were located about half way between the inside of the
barricade. I set my lens focus at the estimated distance from the camera
to the floor and held the camera over the top of the barricade and filmed
them before anybody went into the enclosure. I could not position my eye
to the camera's view finder to get the shot. After filming the casings
with my wide angle lens, from a height of 5 ft., I asked Captain Fritz,
who was standing at my side, if I could go behind the barricade and get a
close-up shot of the casings. He told me that it would be better if I got
my shots from outside the barricade. He then rounded the pile of boxes and
entered the enclosure. This was the first time anybody walked between the
barricade and the windows.
Fritz then walked to the casings, picked them up and held them in
his hand over the top of the boxes for me to get a close-up shot of the
evidence. I filmed about eight seconds of a close-up shot of the shell
casings in Captain Fritz's hand. I stopped filming, and thanked him. I do
not recall if he placed them in his pocket or returned them back to the
floor, because I was preoccupied with recording other views of the crime
scene. I have been asked many times if I thought it was peculiar that the
Captain of Homicide picked up evidence with his hands. Actually, that was
the first thought that came to me when he did it, but I rationalized that
he was the homicide expert and no prints could be taken from spent shell
casings. Therefore, any photograph of shell casings taken after this, is
staged and not correct. It is highly doubtful that the shell casings that
appear in Dallas police photos of the crime scene are the same casings
that were found originally. The originals by this time were probably in a
plastic bag at police headquarters. Why? Probably this was a missing link
in the report the police department had to send to the FBI and they had to
stage it and the barricade box placement to complete their report and
photo records.
The position of the barricade, while difficult to follow for one
who was not there, is important because of the difference in photographs
seen today.
There are four different box positions.
1) There was one box in the barricade stack that was considerably
higher than the others. This box is the one that can be seen
in the photos taken from outside the window by Tom Dillard,
because it was high enough to catch the sunlight and still be
seen from the ground below. It is not to be confused with the
second box set at an angle in the window sill, that was used
as a brace for the assassin's rifle.
2) A portion of this box can also be seen in these same photos
taken by Tom Dillard. It shows up in the lower right hand
corner of the picture.
3) Two boxes were stacked on the floor, inside the window, to
give arm support to the assassin. The top box was one of the
two boxes from which the crime lab lifted palm prints.
4) The fourth box of importance was on the floor behind the
sniper location. Officers also lifted palm prints from this
box. It is suspected that the sniper sat on this box while he
waited for the motorcade to pass.
The positioning of boxes 2, 3, and 4 were recorded by the police
crime lab. They are the only boxes involved in the crime scene.
The actual positioning of the barricade was never photographed by
the police. It s actual positioning is only on my movie footage, which was
taken before the police started dismantling the arrangement.
We all looked over the barricade to see if the half open window
with three boxes piled to form a shooting rest for a gunman. One box was
actually on the window sill, tilted at an angle. There was a reason for
this that I cover in my JFK Facts newsletter. The shooting location
consists of two windows set together to form one single window. (The
police photo showing the shell casings laying next to the brick wall was
staged later by crime lab people who did not see the original positioning
because they were not called upon the scene until after the rifle was
found nearly an hour later.) . . .
Only recently I saw a picture of Lt. Day with a news still
cameraman on the 6th floor. Day was shown pointing to the location where
the rifle was found. This was nearly 3:30 or after. It was my
understanding that Day and Studebaker had taken the prints, rifle and
homemade sack back to police headquarters. I personally would like to know
what they were doing back at the scene unless it was to reconstruct shots
they had failed to take during the primary investigation. But this
evidence had been destroyed and they were forced to create their own
version. The photo I have seen of the barricade wasn't even close. I have
also seen recently a police photo of the assassin's lair taken from a high
angle which indicates that it was shot before the barricade box
arrangement was destroyed, but it did not show the barricade itself. This
has no bearing on the case other than the public has never seen the
original placement. . . .
Police officers who claim they were on the 6th floor when the
assassin's window was found have reported that they saw chicken bones at
or near the site. One officer reported that he saw chicken bones on the
floor near the location. Another said he saw chicken bones on the
barricade boxes, while another reported that he saw chicken bones on the
box which was laying across the window sill. Some of these officers have
given testimony as to the location of the shell casings. Their testimony
differs and none of it is true. I have no idea why they are clinging to
these statements. They must have a reason. Perhaps it is because they put
it in a report and they must stick to it.
One officer stated that he found the assassin's location at the
6th floor window. He went on to say that as he and his fellow officers
were leaving the building, he passed Captain Fritz coming in. He said he
stopped briefly to tell Captain Fritz that he had found the assassin's
lair at the 6th floor window. This seems highly unlikely because Captain
Fritz joined us on the 5th floor and aided in the search. The chances are
great that this, or these officers heard the report, that stemmed from
WFAA-TV's incorrect announcement that the chicken bones were found on the
6th floor. This officer or officers perhaps used this information to
formulate their presence at the scene. There were no chicken bones found
on the 6th floor. We covered every inch of it and I filmed everything that
could possibly be suspected as evidence. There definitely were no chicken
bones were no chicken bones on or near the barricade or boxes at the
window. I shot close-up shots of the entire area. The most outstanding
puzzle as to why these officers are sticking to this story is the fact
they claim to have found the sniper's location, then left the building, as
they said to join the investigators at the Tippit shooting location. I
have never seen a report that indicates they attempted to use any
telephone in the building in an attempt to notify other investigators.
They just left the scene to check another assignment, and by chance ran
into Capt. Fritz coming in the front door. They claim to have placed a
detective at the location but they did not relay their finding to any
other officer before they left the building. I presume that the alleged
detective they allegedly left at the scene was instructed to stand there
until someone else stumbled upon the scene, or they found time to report
it after investigating the Tippit scene. Sorry, it doesn't wash.
I do however know that Officer Mooney was present when the rifle
was found because I took film of him at the scene. He is shown talking to
another detective, but this was nearly an hour after the sniper's location
was found at the window. I have no idea when he arrived. We ended up with
more men than when we started. As they joined us during the search the
latecomers would bring us the latest news of the president's condition.
When Captain Fritz arrived 18 minutes after we started, he brought news
that both Governor Connally and the president had been hit but by the time
he left, the seriousness of their wounds was unknown. Fritz left the
hospital almost immediately when he was notified that a search was
underway in the Texas School Book Depository for the sniper. We in the
search team had no phones, radios or TV sets. As I recall, we learned that
the president was dead about the time we found the rifle. I don't know who
brought us this word. Several officers arrived while we were waiting for
Lt. Day. One of them was Roger Craig, who is responsible for giving much
misinformation to the press. None of us were prepared to hear that the
president's wound was a fatal one. We thought perhaps it was a minor thing
or possibly a flesh wound. It was a stunning shock, and our attitude
[towards] the rifle had suddenly changed. We stared at the small portion
of the butt as it lay under the overhang boxes while we waited for Lt. Day
to arrive and recover the weapon that killed our president. . . .
We finished combing the 6th floor, looking for the assassin or
any other evidence. Finding nothing more at this time Captain Fritz
ordered all of us to the elevator and we started searching the 7th floor
and from there we went to the roof.
Nothing in the way of evidence was found so we retraced our
search back down, floor by floor. Shortly after we arrived back on the 6th
floor, Deputy Eugene Boone located the assassin's rifle almost completely
hidden by some overhanging boxes near the stairwell. I filmed it as it was
found. In my shot, the figure of Captain Fritz is standing within the
enclosure next to the rifle. He knew then that the possibility of a fire
fight with the sniper had greatly diminished. He dispatched one of his men
to go down and call for the crime lab. About fifteen minutes later, Lt.
Day and Studebaker arrived. Still pictures were taken of the positioning
of the rifle, then Lt. Day slid it out from its hiding place and held it
up for all of us to see. The world has seen my shot of this many times.
Lt. Day immediately turned toward the window behind him and started
dusting the weapon for fingerprints. Day was still within the enclosure
formed by the surrounding boxes. I filmed him lifting prints from the
rifle. He lifted them off with scotch tape and placed them on little white
cards. When he had finished, he handed the rifle to Captain Fritz. Fritz
pulled the bolt back and a live round ejected and landed on the boxes
below. Fritz put the cartridge in his pocket. I did not see Fritz pick up
anything other than the live round. . . .
I filmed Captain Fritz talking with associates in this dismantled
area [the "sniper's nest"], along with Studebaker, who was dusting the Dr.
Pepper bottle which had been brought up to him from the 5th floor. This is
all recorded on my film. I never learned if prints were lifted from the
pop bottle. I'm not sure if anybody ever asked.
I took the film from my camera, placed it back into its metal
can, wrapped the tape around it, and tossed it to our News Editor, A. J.
L'Hoste, who was waiting outside with the other newsmen who were not
allowed in the building. A. J. raced it to the television station which
was about three blocks away. About fifteen minutes later the world saw the
murder weapon, where it was found and pictures of the crime lab people
dusting it for fingerprints, and the shell casings that once housed those
bullets. They also saw how the assassin prepared for his ambush and the
view he had of the killing zone.
Addendum #1
A correspondent asked Tom Alyea about the accuracy of the above
Thanks for sending me the material from Connie Kritzberg's
"Secrets from The Sixth Floor." I never read the book. Many years ago she
interviewed me about what I saw during the search. I gave her some
pictures to use in her story. This is the first time I have seen the
story. I regret to say that there are some inaccuracies, which is to be
expected in an interview. You must remember that she was not on the sixth
floor. She was at her desk in the city room at the Dallas Times Herald
newspaper. It is disjointed and out of sequence, which makes it difficult
to follow. This is often the case when the interviewer asks the questions
and was not at the scene. Connie is a friend of mine, and a good reporter,
but I did not see the final draft before it went to press. There is always
the possibility that I failed to make my answers clear, and she derived a
different meaning. Please remember that these short statements contained
little detail and circumstances behind the situation.
I shall make a few corrections that I feel are necessary to
The average height of the barricade (Barricade #1) was four and a
half feet. I don't know how high this would be in the Metric scale.
My shot of the shell casings in Capt. Fritz's hand was between
three and four seconds.
(Important correction:) Take out the sentence that starts with,
"It is highly doubtful???"
My statement was that after Capt. Fritz held the casing over the
barricade for me to film, he turned to examine the shooting support boxes
on the windowsill. I couldn't see the captain put the casings in his coat
pocket because his coat pocket was below the top of the barricade. He did
not return them to the floor and he did not have them in his hand when he
was examining the shooting support boxes. Over thirty minutes later, after
the rifle was discovered and the crime lab arrived, Capt. Fritz reached
into his pocket and handed the casings to Det. Studebaker to include in
the photographs he would take of the sniper's nest crime scene. We stayed
at the rifle site to watch Lt. Day dust the rifle. You have seen my
footage of this. Studebaker never saw the original placement of the
casings so he tossed them on the floor and photographed them. Det.
Studebaker was alone at this site until after Lt. Day left the building
with the rifle. We in the search team went to the sniper's site.
Studebaker had already photographed the casings on the floor and was busy
dusting the pop bottle when we arrived. The casings were no longer on the
floor. I never saw them again. The barricade had been completely
dismantled and the boxes from the West side of the barricade had been
removed and placed in various locations around the site. We did not
realize at the time that Studebaker had not recorded on film the original
placement of the boxes in the barricade. He also had removed the shooting
support boxes on the window ledge and stacked them one on top of the other
on the floor inside. He took a picture of this reconstructed arrangement.
This is the view researchers have of the shooting support boxes that were
originally on the brick window ledge. The corner of the outside box was
positioned over the lower window channel that tilted the box at an angle.
(Important correction)???Take out the sentence that starts with,
"I have also seen recently???"
This high angle photograph was taken after the crime lab returned
to the sixth floor three days later 'Monday, November, twenty-five. Capt.
Fritz had seen the photographs and had directed the crime lab to correct
the shots of the window boxes and the casings on the floor. He had seen
the original placement and ordered the crime lab to correct it. Neither
Lt. Day nor Det. Studebaker had seen the original placement, so they
procured my film from the TV station to get it right. The high angle shot
(shots) were made to show the original placement. Their reconstruction was
close, but not exact. However, they did not bring the casings with them so
they did not make the correction of the original placement of the shell
casings.
(Important correction) Take out the sentence that starts with
:" I do however know that Officer Mooney???"
Mooney was a Sheriff's Deputy, not a police officer. He did not
arrive on the sixth floor until after the rifle was found and the search
was over.
(Important correction) Take out the sentence that starts with,
"He dispatched one of his men???"
Capt. Fritz did this after the shooting site was discovered, with
the instructions to have the crime lab men wait on the first floor when
they arrived. We were still looking for an armed gunman. We had only found
his shooting location. After the rifle was found, Capt. Fritz sent one of
his detectives down in the elevator to bring up the crime lab, because it
was obvious that the sniper had escaped and the threat of a firefight was
unlikely. The crime lab is never called to a scene that has not been
secured. I hope you researcher friends will realize this when the read the
police testimonies where they place Lt. Day at the shooting site crime
scene while we in the search team were still searching for an armed sniper
on the same floor. They had a noble reason for giving this false
testimony. They wanted to protect their boss, Capt. Fritz from possible
censure for picking up the casings before the crime lab arrived and
processed them. The easiest way was to place Lt. Day at the scene before
Capt. Fritz arrived. All this is detailed in my report.
Addendum #2
Subject: Re: Tom Alyea on the sixth floor evidence
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Date: 1999/07/04
compare Tom Alyea's more recent statements (posted by Dave Reitzes) with
------------------------------[quote on]
"...I ran on upstairs with the Secret Service men. Then other
units came in - the Riot Squad. I thought I was going to film a gun fight.
They ran to the 4th floor and I went with them. Some of the other units
went to the top of the building. They were conducting a systematic search.
It boiled down to the sixth floor. After awhile it was obvious that the
assassin was not in the building. They looked for the gun. I filmed 400
ft. of film of the Secret Service men looking for the assassin, climbing
over boxes, over the rafters, and the actual finding of the gun. At the
time it was suspected that the assassin had stayed quite a time there.
There was a stack with a stack of chicken bones on it. There was a Dr.
Pepper bottle which they dusted for fingerprints. The fingerprints were
not Oswald's. You know how he piled the boxes up? The gun was found across
the length of the room from where he fired. It was stashed between boxes.
I had difficulty in filming. They did not want me closeto the window or to
the gun. I asked permission to go to the window to film. A Secret Service
man said, 'You are close enough.' I asked the Secret Service man to take
pictures of the stashed gun. I set the camera but he wiggled the camera. I
got a picture of them taking the gun from the hiding place and dusting it
for fingerprints. After this the Crime Lab man, Captain Will Fritz - and I
have footage of this - pulled the bolt back and a live round came out.
They dusted the gun for fingerprints. This was my third camera. They
wouldn't let me out of the building and they wouldn't let anyone else in.
I never saw my film on the air because I had to get the film to someone
outside. This was the first film from there. We had Mal Couch's film of
the crowd but not of the President being hit. [How did you get the film
out?] There's a story for you. I actually handed it out through the door
but it had been publicized over the air and established everywhere that I
had thrown it out of the building through a window. I hesitate to tell you
the real story. I started to throw it out of the building but being so
close and knowing that we had the other film, I wanted our station to be
the first to show a film of the assassination. A A.J. L'Hoste was under
the window. I yelled out to him. In actuality I tossed the film out the
front door to Ron Reiland who had gotten back from covering the
apprehension of Oswald at the Texas Theater. This was another ABC
exclusive. There were 2 policemen at the Depository door. They were not
sure that I should get things outside. Ron was outside and I was inside.
One of the policemen there called a Lieutenant and while they were calling
him, I threw the film out....."
------------------------------[quote off]
Seems like you are relying an awful lot on Alyea.
We have to because the DPD were unreliable.

Anthony Marsh
2018-11-22 16:35:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
No, it wasn't. He couldn't even hit Walker at only 120 feet away. That's
a dead give away that it was a conspiracy.
One missed shot, with no second or third shot taken, proves a
conspiracy? And 2 plus 2 equals 10.
Silly. No one is talking about a conspiracy in the Walker attempt.
Where do you get your goofy ideas?
The fact that Oswald missed when he tried to kill Walker shows why the
JFK assassination had to be a conspiracy. One man could not pull it off
alone. Show me where the miss went. PROOF.
Missed first shot in Walker attempt (didn't realize it til later) and
missed first shot in JFK attempt, didn't want to make same mistake twice,
took two more shots at JFK to be sure. Where's the conspiracy in that?
Sounds like the same guy to me.
The conspiracy would not trust Oswald to hit his target. DeM made fun of
Oswald when he heard that he missed. So the conspiracy would need an
insurance shooter on the grassy knoll because the shots from behind were
not fatal, just like the Petit-Clamart attack.

Things go wrong and you need a backup. Why do professional snipers go out
in teams of 2? THINK for a change.
Allan G. Johnson
2018-11-21 02:45:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
No, it wasn't. He couldn't even hit Walker at only 120 feet away. That's
a dead give away that it was a conspiracy.
One missed shot, with no second or third shot taken, proves a
conspiracy? And 2 plus 2 equals 10.
Silly. No one is talking about a conspiracy in the Walker attempt.
Where do you get your goofy ideas?
The fact that Oswald missed when he tried to kill Walker shows why the
JFK assassination had to be a conspiracy. One man could not pull it off
alone. Show me where the miss went. PROOF.
Intentionally misinterpreting again. The question was how does the
Walker miss prove a conspiracy in the JFK shooting, not in the Walker
shooting, but you knew that already.
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-22 16:36:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
No, it wasn't. He couldn't even hit Walker at only 120 feet away. That's
a dead give away that it was a conspiracy.
One missed shot, with no second or third shot taken, proves a
conspiracy? And 2 plus 2 equals 10.
Silly. No one is talking about a conspiracy in the Walker attempt.
Where do you get your goofy ideas?
The fact that Oswald missed when he tried to kill Walker shows why the
JFK assassination had to be a conspiracy. One man could not pull it off
alone. Show me where the miss went. PROOF.
Intentionally misinterpreting again. The question was how does the
Walker miss prove a conspiracy in the JFK shooting, not in the Walker
shooting, but you knew that already.
Yes, that was my point. The Walker attempt showed that the Carcano could
not do the job, so to kill JFK they had to put an insurance shooter on the
grassy knoll, because Oswald's Carcano had a tendency to miss. Notice that
the grassy knoll shooter did not start shooting right away. He had to wait
and see if JFK was mortally wounded and if not THEN he would fire the
fatal shot.
Allan G. Johnson
2018-11-24 16:11:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
No, it wasn't. He couldn't even hit Walker at only 120 feet away. That's
a dead give away that it was a conspiracy.
One missed shot, with no second or third shot taken, proves a
conspiracy? And 2 plus 2 equals 10.
Silly. No one is talking about a conspiracy in the Walker attempt.
Where do you get your goofy ideas?
The fact that Oswald missed when he tried to kill Walker shows why the
JFK assassination had to be a conspiracy. One man could not pull it off
alone. Show me where the miss went. PROOF.
Intentionally misinterpreting again. The question was how does the
Walker miss prove a conspiracy in the JFK shooting, not in the Walker
shooting, but you knew that already.
Yes, that was my point. The Walker attempt showed that the Carcano could
not do the job, so to kill JFK they had to put an insurance shooter on the
grassy knoll, because Oswald's Carcano had a tendency to miss. Notice that
the grassy knoll shooter did not start shooting right away. He had to wait
and see if JFK was mortally wounded and if not THEN he would fire the
fatal shot.
But where is the evidence that proves a Grassy Knoll shooter? No person
found or arrested, no film or clear photo of a shooter from the Knoll, no
rifle or other weapon found, no shells or bullet fragments found other
than from a Carcano, no physical evidence on the victims confirming a
front shot.

Other than there was never any known film or clear photo taken of who
actually did the shooting, 100% of evidence confirms it was Oswald, 0%
anyone else. To say that a grassy knoll shooter was waiting until the
first shots were taken is pure speculation and grasping at straws, with no
basis in fact or proof.
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-26 00:04:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
No, it wasn't. He couldn't even hit Walker at only 120 feet away. That's
a dead give away that it was a conspiracy.
One missed shot, with no second or third shot taken, proves a
conspiracy? And 2 plus 2 equals 10.
Silly. No one is talking about a conspiracy in the Walker attempt.
Where do you get your goofy ideas?
The fact that Oswald missed when he tried to kill Walker shows why the
JFK assassination had to be a conspiracy. One man could not pull it off
alone. Show me where the miss went. PROOF.
Intentionally misinterpreting again. The question was how does the
Walker miss prove a conspiracy in the JFK shooting, not in the Walker
shooting, but you knew that already.
Yes, that was my point. The Walker attempt showed that the Carcano could
not do the job, so to kill JFK they had to put an insurance shooter on the
grassy knoll, because Oswald's Carcano had a tendency to miss. Notice that
the grassy knoll shooter did not start shooting right away. He had to wait
and see if JFK was mortally wounded and if not THEN he would fire the
fatal shot.
But where is the evidence that proves a Grassy Knoll shooter? No person
found or arrested, no film or clear photo of a shooter from the Knoll, no
None of those are needed. First we had witness reports which helped us
know where to look. Then science found the shot from the grassy knoll. And
we know it hit because of the bullet wound on JFK's forehead.
Post by Allan G. Johnson
rifle or other weapon found, no shells or bullet fragments found other
than from a Carcano, no physical evidence on the victims confirming a
front shot.
You think multiple victims would be hit by that shot? Is that a NEW
Single Bullet Theory (NSBT)?
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Other than there was never any known film or clear photo taken of who
actually did the shooting, 100% of evidence confirms it was Oswald, 0%
Likewise there was no known film or clear photo taken of who fired the
shots from the TSBD, but again the same science proves that 3 shots were
indeed fired from the sniper's nest. YOU can't prove who fired them. And
then you have the nerve to demand proof of the grassy knoll shooter that
you can't produce for your patsy in the TSBD.
Post by Allan G. Johnson
anyone else. To say that a grassy knoll shooter was waiting until the
first shots were taken is pure speculation and grasping at straws, with no
basis in fact or proof.
The timing of the shots.
bigdog
2018-11-22 01:37:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
No, it wasn't. He couldn't even hit Walker at only 120 feet away. That's
a dead give away that it was a conspiracy.
One missed shot, with no second or third shot taken, proves a
conspiracy? And 2 plus 2 equals 10.
Silly. No one is talking about a conspiracy in the Walker attempt.
Where do you get your goofy ideas?
The fact that Oswald missed when he tried to kill Walker shows why the
JFK assassination had to be a conspiracy. One man could not pull it off
alone. Show me where the miss went. PROOF.
It is quite easy for one man to shoot another at the ranges Oswald fired
at JFK. Just because he missed when he shot at Walker doesn't mean he
would miss all the time. In just about any human endeavor you can name,
people will sometimes succeed and sometimes fail. Oswald failed to kill
Walker. He succeeded at killing JFK.

It is completely unnecessary to prove where the missed shot went. That is
a screwy idea you came up with a long time again because somehow in your
mind if we don't know that, we can't figure out where the two hits came
from. I have no clue why you think that must be explained and I doubt
anybody else does either. You have never explained why that is important.
And you never will.
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-23 01:36:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
No, it wasn't. He couldn't even hit Walker at only 120 feet away. That's
a dead give away that it was a conspiracy.
One missed shot, with no second or third shot taken, proves a
conspiracy? And 2 plus 2 equals 10.
Silly. No one is talking about a conspiracy in the Walker attempt.
Where do you get your goofy ideas?
The fact that Oswald missed when he tried to kill Walker shows why the
JFK assassination had to be a conspiracy. One man could not pull it off
alone. Show me where the miss went. PROOF.
It is quite easy for one man to shoot another at the ranges Oswald fired
at JFK. Just because he missed when he shot at Walker doesn't mean he
would miss all the time. In just about any human endeavor you can name,
people will sometimes succeed and sometimes fail. Oswald failed to kill
Walker. He succeeded at killing JFK.
But you said it would be much easier to hit Walker because the distance
was even shorter than in Dealey Plaza. So there is more to missing Walker
than bad aim. Even a good aim would miss because of the flight
characteristics and the battle zero of his rifle, as I point out with
diagrams and Dave Emary explained. Do you claim to be more expert than
Dave Emary?
Post by bigdog
It is completely unnecessary to prove where the missed shot went. That is
No, I am just pointing out that WC defenders claim things and they can't
prove them.
Post by bigdog
a screwy idea you came up with a long time again because somehow in your
mind if we don't know that, we can't figure out where the two hits came
from. I have no clue why you think that must be explained and I doubt
False. I already knew that 2 hits came from the sniper's nest. I am just
pointing out the WC defenders hypocrisy of asking conspiracy believers to
prove everything they claim when you can't. I don't care where the miss
went or when. I can SPECULATE about when it was fired and WHERE it went,
but then you would demand absolute proof. I can't even get you to
speculate about where and when and you never provide absolute proof about
anything. All you can do is attack, never defend.
Post by bigdog
anybody else does either. You have never explained why that is important.
And you never will.
I just did and I always do.
bigdog
2018-11-24 20:14:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
No, it wasn't. He couldn't even hit Walker at only 120 feet away. That's
a dead give away that it was a conspiracy.
One missed shot, with no second or third shot taken, proves a
conspiracy? And 2 plus 2 equals 10.
Silly. No one is talking about a conspiracy in the Walker attempt.
Where do you get your goofy ideas?
The fact that Oswald missed when he tried to kill Walker shows why the
JFK assassination had to be a conspiracy. One man could not pull it off
alone. Show me where the miss went. PROOF.
It is quite easy for one man to shoot another at the ranges Oswald fired
at JFK. Just because he missed when he shot at Walker doesn't mean he
would miss all the time. In just about any human endeavor you can name,
people will sometimes succeed and sometimes fail. Oswald failed to kill
Walker. He succeeded at killing JFK.
But you said it would be much easier to hit Walker because the distance
was even shorter than in Dealey Plaza.
When did I say that? Or did you just imagine I said that?
Post by Anthony Marsh
So there is more to missing Walker
than bad aim. Even a good aim would miss because of the flight
characteristics and the battle zero of his rifle,
Flight characteristics would have nothing to do with a miss. A battle zero
of 200 meters would cause the shot at Walker to be aimed high at the range
Oswald fired at Walker from. If he used the adjustable scope, that too
would p= robably have been set for a longer distance than what he was
firing from. If his shot was aimed too high because of the short distance,
the bullet would have started on the same line as the muzzle but as soon
as the bullet left the muzzle, gravity would began causing the bullet to
curve below that line. It probably would not have curved downward enough
to hit Walker if his aiming point was Walker's head. Contrary to what you
have said in the past, a bullet does not rise above the line established
by the muzzle. The muzzle itself would be pointed above Walker's head
because the sights were set for a much longer distance that would have
allowed for more downward curve. Bill Clarke has explained this to you
numerous times to no avail so I have no illusions that you will understand
it coming from me.
Post by Anthony Marsh
as I point out with
diagrams and Dave Emary explained. Do you claim to be more expert than
Dave Emary?
My dispute isn't with Emary. It's with you tortured understanding of what
he has written.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
It is completely unnecessary to prove where the missed shot went. That is
No, I am just pointing out that WC defenders claim things and they can't
prove them.
There are things that don't need to be proved. We don't need to prove
where the missed shot went. We don't even need to prove there was a missed
shot although the preponderance of evidence indicates there was. The WC
allowed for the possibility that Oswald started with an empty shell in the
chamber which he ejected before firing just two shots. Witness
recollections seem to indicate that is unlikely.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
a screwy idea you came up with a long time again because somehow in your
mind if we don't know that, we can't figure out where the two hits came
from. I have no clue why you think that must be explained and I doubt
False. I already knew that 2 hits came from the sniper's nest. I am just
pointing out the WC defenders hypocrisy of asking conspiracy believers to
prove everything they claim when you can't.
There are a number of ways you could prove there was a shot from the GK
without proving where that shot went. Medical evidence of a shot that hit
either victim from a location other than behind them. No such evidence
exists. Spent shells on the GK or wherever else you would like to place a
shooter. No such evidence exists. Photos of a shooter in a location other
than the TSBD. No such evidence exists. The only thing you have is some
earwitnesses thinking they heard the shots coming from the GK and the long
discredited acoustics evidence.
Post by Anthony Marsh
I don't care where the miss
went or when. I can SPECULATE about when it was fired and WHERE it went,
but then you would demand absolute proof.
No, I wouldn't. All you have ever been asked to do is provide evidence
that there were shots from any location other than the sniper's nest. What
you have produced is pretty paltry.
Post by Anthony Marsh
I can't even get you to
speculate about where and when and you never provide absolute proof about
anything. All you can do is attack, never defend.
If pointing out the lack of evidence to support your theories constitutes
an attack, I guess I'm guilty of that.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
anybody else does either. You have never explained why that is important.
And you never will.
I just did and I always do.
You just got done telling us it is not important.
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-26 00:05:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
No, it wasn't. He couldn't even hit Walker at only 120 feet away. That's
a dead give away that it was a conspiracy.
One missed shot, with no second or third shot taken, proves a
conspiracy? And 2 plus 2 equals 10.
Silly. No one is talking about a conspiracy in the Walker attempt.
Where do you get your goofy ideas?
The fact that Oswald missed when he tried to kill Walker shows why the
JFK assassination had to be a conspiracy. One man could not pull it off
alone. Show me where the miss went. PROOF.
It is quite easy for one man to shoot another at the ranges Oswald fired
at JFK. Just because he missed when he shot at Walker doesn't mean he
would miss all the time. In just about any human endeavor you can name,
people will sometimes succeed and sometimes fail. Oswald failed to kill
Walker. He succeeded at killing JFK.
But you said it would be much easier to hit Walker because the distance
was even shorter than in Dealey Plaza.
When did I say that? Or did you just imagine I said that?
Several times you have said that the closer to the target the more
likely a hit.
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
So there is more to missing Walker
than bad aim. Even a good aim would miss because of the flight
characteristics and the battle zero of his rifle,
Flight characteristics would have nothing to do with a miss. A battle zero
Yes, they do. Some rifles can produce yawing. Oswald's rifle missed all
the time when tested by the FBI.
Post by bigdog
of 200 meters would cause the shot at Walker to be aimed high at the range
Oswald fired at Walker from. If he used the adjustable scope, that too
would p=obably have been set for a longer distance than what he was
Yes.
Post by bigdog
firing from. If his shot was aimed too high because of the short distance,
the bullet would have started on the same line as the muzzle but as soon
as the bullet left the muzzle, gravity would began causing the bullet to
curve below that line. It probably would not have curved downward enough
What? The bullet goes above the barrel and then gravity pulls it down to
hit the bulleye at the battle zero. Anywhere along that path the bullet is
traveling ABOVE the line of sight.

He could have Walker perfectly in his crosshairs and the bullet will hit
the window a few inches above his point of aim.
Post by bigdog
to hit Walker if his aiming point was Walker's head. Contrary to what you
I think it was because Walker was seated at his desk and the center of
his mass would be below the window.
Post by bigdog
have said in the past, a bullet does not rise above the line established
by the muzzle. The muzzle itself would be pointed above Walker's head
The muzzle is aimed up.
Post by bigdog
because the sights were set for a much longer distance that would have
allowed for more downward curve. Bill Clarke has explained this to you
numerous times to no avail so I have no illusions that you will understand
it coming from me.
He doesn't know what the Hell he is talking about. Neither do you.
Dave Emery does:

6.5 mm Carcanos were equipped with a wide variety of sights. Early model
M91 series rifles had adjustable sights with a fixed battle zero sight.
Most models of rifles made just before or during WWII had fixed sights.
The exception to this was the M41 model. From a user standpoint the WWII
era Carcano's sights are the model of effectiveness and simplicity. The
early model M91 version rifles with the fixed battle sight being at 300
meters was probably not the greatest decision but reflected the trend of
that time. With this sight setting the rifles would have a maximum height
of trajectory of approximately 15"-17" at a range of 175 to 200 yards,
depending on barrel length. I suspect more than one Austrian soldiers life
was spared in WWI because someone shot over his head.
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
as I point out with
diagrams and Dave Emary explained. Do you claim to be more expert than
Dave Emary?
My dispute isn't with Emary. It's with you tortured understanding of what
he has written.
I quote him exactly unlike whe WC defenders who always misquote.
Can't you read plain English?
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
It is completely unnecessary to prove where the missed shot went. That is
No, I am just pointing out that WC defenders claim things and they can't
prove them.
There are things that don't need to be proved. We don't need to prove
So now you finally admit that you are simply guessing. Good start.
Post by bigdog
where the missed shot went. We don't even need to prove there was a missed
shot although the preponderance of evidence indicates there was. The WC
So what? I also believe in misses, but I admit that I can't prove where
they went. So I speculate and you attack me. You simply guess and make
up crap from your imagination and you think you are perfect.
Post by bigdog
allowed for the possibility that Oswald started with an empty shell in the
chamber which he ejected before firing just two shots. Witness
recollections seem to indicate that is unlikely.
Well, 3 empty shells were found. Tink was wrong in saying the one with
the dented lip was not fired during the assassination. It got that dent
when reloading malfunctioned and jammed the rifle for almost 5 seconds.
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
a screwy idea you came up with a long time again because somehow in your
mind if we don't know that, we can't figure out where the two hits came
from. I have no clue why you think that must be explained and I doubt
False. I already knew that 2 hits came from the sniper's nest. I am just
pointing out the WC defenders hypocrisy of asking conspiracy believers to
prove everything they claim when you can't.
There are a number of ways you could prove there was a shot from the GK
without proving where that shot went. Medical evidence of a shot that hit
Yes, we already did that. The HSCA thought it missed, but the two
experts who studied it n detail think it hit.
Post by bigdog
either victim from a location other than behind them. No such evidence
False. The bullet entrance wound in the forehead could only have been
fired from the front.
Post by bigdog
exists. Spent shells on the GK or wherever else you would like to place a
We don't need spent shells with a single shot bolt action rifle.
Post by bigdog
shooter. No such evidence exists. Photos of a shooter in a location other
than the TSBD. No such evidence exists. The only thing you have is some
We see the man's head above the top of the fence which is 5 feet tall.
Post by bigdog
earwitnesses thinking they heard the shots coming from the GK and the long
discredited acoustics evidence.
Post by Anthony Marsh
I don't care where the miss
went or when. I can SPECULATE about when it was fired and WHERE it went,
but then you would demand absolute proof.
No, I wouldn't. All you have ever been asked to do is provide evidence
that there were shots from any location other than the sniper's nest. What
you have produced is pretty paltry.
So, like all good Republicans you reject science.
That science proved exactly where the shooters were and who fired which
shots at the Kent State Massacre. I don't remember you ever calling that
junk science. The court and the defense accepted it.
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
I can't even get you to
speculate about where and when and you never provide absolute proof about
anything. All you can do is attack, never defend.
If pointing out the lack of evidence to support your theories constitutes
an attack, I guess I'm guilty of that.
You always have to attack because you can't prove.
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
anybody else does either. You have never explained why that is important.
And you never will.
I just did and I always do.
You just got done telling us it is not important.
Not the same thing in English. I am asking you for proof. You have none.
All you can ever do is guess and make personal attacks.
Steve M. Galbraith
2018-11-17 16:58:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
Desperate men do desperate things. It was all he had. Hell, he had to get
a ride to the assassination site.

I've gone back and forth on the motive (I know, you hate the speculative
nature of the issue but I think it's important - at least for history). If
he wanted revenge for Castro and JFK's war on Cuba, then why not try and
secure a better rifle? He had the money, he wouldn't have to worry about
it being traced - he's on a suicide mission after all.

Everything seemed rushed, spur of the moment. He waited until the very
last moment to retrieve the rifle. Why not bring it back a week earlier to
test it out? Why rely on Frazier's ride?

If it's deliberate and planned out - again, revenge for Castro, a strike
against the country he hated, notoriety or a place in history, part of a
larger conspiracy (with the Mob et cetera) - then why wait until the last
moments?

Yeah, I know, trying to figure out what was going through his head is
almost useless. But we have to try, I think.
bigdog
2018-11-19 02:20:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
Desperate men do desperate things. It was all he had. Hell, he had to get
a ride to the assassination site.
I've gone back and forth on the motive (I know, you hate the speculative
nature of the issue but I think it's important - at least for history). If
he wanted revenge for Castro and JFK's war on Cuba, then why not try and
secure a better rifle? He had the money, he wouldn't have to worry about
it being traced - he's on a suicide mission after all.
Everything seemed rushed, spur of the moment. He waited until the very
last moment to retrieve the rifle. Why not bring it back a week earlier to
test it out? Why rely on Frazier's ride?
If it's deliberate and planned out - again, revenge for Castro, a strike
against the country he hated, notoriety or a place in history, part of a
larger conspiracy (with the Mob et cetera) - then why wait until the last
moments?
Yeah, I know, trying to figure out what was going through his head is
almost useless. But we have to try, I think.
No, we don't have to try because the answer is unknowable. Unless someone
uncovers some previously hidden manifesto, we are never going to know why
Oswald did it. We also don't need to know why he did it. All that is
necessary is to know that he did do it. It can be fun to speculate about
his motive but barring the above unlikely scenario, we are never going to
have any definitive answer to the question. You have your guess, I have
mine and that is all we will ever have.
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-20 06:18:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by bigdog
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
Desperate men do desperate things. It was all he had. Hell, he had to get
a ride to the assassination site.
I've gone back and forth on the motive (I know, you hate the speculative
nature of the issue but I think it's important - at least for history). If
he wanted revenge for Castro and JFK's war on Cuba, then why not try and
secure a better rifle? He had the money, he wouldn't have to worry about
it being traced - he's on a suicide mission after all.
Everything seemed rushed, spur of the moment. He waited until the very
last moment to retrieve the rifle. Why not bring it back a week earlier to
test it out? Why rely on Frazier's ride?
If it's deliberate and planned out - again, revenge for Castro, a strike
against the country he hated, notoriety or a place in history, part of a
larger conspiracy (with the Mob et cetera) - then why wait until the last
moments?
Yeah, I know, trying to figure out what was going through his head is
almost useless. But we have to try, I think.
No, we don't have to try because the answer is unknowable. Unless someone
uncovers some previously hidden manifesto, we are never going to know why
Oswald did it. We also don't need to know why he did it. All that is
Well, if Oswald didn't do it and someone else did then we have to look
for the motive elsewhere. I found it in an obscure document.
Post by bigdog
necessary is to know that he did do it. It can be fun to speculate about
his motive but barring the above unlikely scenario, we are never going to
Can't you read English? You are not allowed to speculate about motive.
What are you trying to do, spark WWIII? All speculation about motive
should be cut off.
Post by bigdog
have any definitive answer to the question. You have your guess, I have
mine and that is all we will ever have.
Who says? YOU? Someone who's never done ANY research? All you can ever
do is guess. Because you haven't seen all the documents.
bigdog
2018-11-22 01:38:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
Desperate men do desperate things. It was all he had. Hell, he had to get
a ride to the assassination site.
I've gone back and forth on the motive (I know, you hate the speculative
nature of the issue but I think it's important - at least for history). If
he wanted revenge for Castro and JFK's war on Cuba, then why not try and
secure a better rifle? He had the money, he wouldn't have to worry about
it being traced - he's on a suicide mission after all.
Everything seemed rushed, spur of the moment. He waited until the very
last moment to retrieve the rifle. Why not bring it back a week earlier to
test it out? Why rely on Frazier's ride?
If it's deliberate and planned out - again, revenge for Castro, a strike
against the country he hated, notoriety or a place in history, part of a
larger conspiracy (with the Mob et cetera) - then why wait until the last
moments?
Yeah, I know, trying to figure out what was going through his head is
almost useless. But we have to try, I think.
No, we don't have to try because the answer is unknowable. Unless someone
uncovers some previously hidden manifesto, we are never going to know why
Oswald did it. We also don't need to know why he did it. All that is
Well, if Oswald didn't do it and someone else did then we have to look
for the motive elsewhere. I found it in an obscure document.
It must be really obscure since you seem to be the only one who knows
about it.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
necessary is to know that he did do it. It can be fun to speculate about
his motive but barring the above unlikely scenario, we are never going to
Can't you read English? You are not allowed to speculate about motive.
What are you trying to do, spark WWIII? All speculation about motive
should be cut off.
Why?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
have any definitive answer to the question. You have your guess, I have
mine and that is all we will ever have.
Who says? YOU? Someone who's never done ANY research? All you can ever
do is guess. Because you haven't seen all the documents.
You must think your silly website constitutes research.
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-23 14:50:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
Desperate men do desperate things. It was all he had. Hell, he had to get
a ride to the assassination site.
I've gone back and forth on the motive (I know, you hate the speculative
nature of the issue but I think it's important - at least for history). If
he wanted revenge for Castro and JFK's war on Cuba, then why not try and
secure a better rifle? He had the money, he wouldn't have to worry about
it being traced - he's on a suicide mission after all.
Everything seemed rushed, spur of the moment. He waited until the very
last moment to retrieve the rifle. Why not bring it back a week earlier to
test it out? Why rely on Frazier's ride?
If it's deliberate and planned out - again, revenge for Castro, a strike
against the country he hated, notoriety or a place in history, part of a
larger conspiracy (with the Mob et cetera) - then why wait until the last
moments?
Yeah, I know, trying to figure out what was going through his head is
almost useless. But we have to try, I think.
No, we don't have to try because the answer is unknowable. Unless someone
uncovers some previously hidden manifesto, we are never going to know why
Oswald did it. We also don't need to know why he did it. All that is
Well, if Oswald didn't do it and someone else did then we have to look
for the motive elsewhere. I found it in an obscure document.
It must be really obscure since you seem to be the only one who knows
about it.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
necessary is to know that he did do it. It can be fun to speculate about
his motive but barring the above unlikely scenario, we are never going to
Can't you read English? You are not allowed to speculate about motive.
What are you trying to do, spark WWIII? All speculation about motive
should be cut off.
Why?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
have any definitive answer to the question. You have your guess, I have
mine and that is all we will ever have.
Who says? YOU? Someone who's never done ANY research? All you can ever
do is guess. Because you haven't seen all the documents.
You must think your silly website constitutes research.
Yes, I have things that WC defenders do not and I show my research.
All you do is attack.
d***@gmail.com
2018-11-19 21:21:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
I'm wondering how many CTs, who claim that Oswald's rifle was a piece of
junk, would be willing for somebody to take that rifle out of the archives
in its current state, loaded, and have it pointed at them from a distance
of 88 yards and feel safe.

Old, ill-maintained rifles, are still able to shoot bullets that kill.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN
bigdog
2018-11-20 16:04:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
I'm wondering how many CTs, who claim that Oswald's rifle was a piece of
junk, would be willing for somebody to take that rifle out of the archives
in its current state, loaded, and have it pointed at them from a distance
of 88 yards and feel safe.
Old, ill-maintained rifles, are still able to shoot bullets that kill.
To hear some conspiracy hobbyists talk about it, you'd think the bullets
went sideways after leaving the muzzle.
claviger
2018-11-20 22:04:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
I'm wondering how many CTs, who claim that Oswald's rifle was a piece of
junk, would be willing for somebody to take that rifle out of the archives
in its current state, loaded, and have it pointed at them from a distance
of 88 yards and feel safe.
Old, ill-maintained rifles, are still able to shoot bullets that kill.
David Emerling
Memphis, TN
Some Civil War rifles are still deadly loaded with the right powder
and lead.
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-21 15:00:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
I'm wondering how many CTs, who claim that Oswald's rifle was a piece of
junk, would be willing for somebody to take that rifle out of the archives
in its current state, loaded, and have it pointed at them from a distance
of 88 yards and feel safe.
I wonder how many WC defenders would be stupid enough to take Oswald's
rifle in its current state and actually fire it. It would probably blow
up in their hands. You ASSuME that his rifle fired the fatal shot
because you can't prove it.
If the fatal shot came from the front that's another miss from behind.
If JFK was shot in the back by one bullet and Connally hit by a second
bullet that means there was a miss from behind.

So if you find a car that still had a chrome topping, I would be safe
sitting in the rear seat from a shooter 88 yards away.
Post by d***@gmail.com
Old, ill-maintained rifles, are still able to shoot bullets that kill.
Sure, if you're only 10 feet away.
Why haven't YOU shown us your shooting tests?
You have the paper targets, but you don't have any bullet holes in them.
It's awfully easy to bluff, but harder to prove.
Post by d***@gmail.com
David Emerling
Memphis, TN
bigdog
2018-11-22 16:35:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
I'm wondering how many CTs, who claim that Oswald's rifle was a piece of
junk, would be willing for somebody to take that rifle out of the archives
in its current state, loaded, and have it pointed at them from a distance
of 88 yards and feel safe.
I wonder how many WC defenders would be stupid enough to take Oswald's
rifle in its current state and actually fire it.
So tell us which end of Oswald's rifle would you rather be on when it is
fired.
Post by Anthony Marsh
It would probably blow
up in their hands.
Does that mean you'd choose to be on the muzzle end?
Post by Anthony Marsh
You ASSuME that his rifle fired the fatal shot
because you can't prove it.
All the recovered bullets came from that rifle. All the recovered shells
came from that rifle. Because the bullets passed through the victims, you
take the position that we can't figure out which bullets hit them. How
silly.
Post by Anthony Marsh
If the fatal shot came from the front that's another miss from behind.
Now why don't you tell us about all the proof you have for your frontal
shot and we can stack that up against the evidence that the shots came
from above and behind. Should make for an interesting comparison.
Post by Anthony Marsh
If JFK was shot in the back by one bullet and Connally hit by a second
bullet that means there was a miss from behind.
So do you think CE399 hit JFK or Connally? Which ever you choose, show us
the other bullet that you think hit them. You are always demanding that we
show you the bullet from the shot that missed. Seems only reasonable you
should be able to do the same for the shots you hypothesize.
Post by Anthony Marsh
So if you find a car that still had a chrome topping, I would be safe
sitting in the rear seat from a shooter 88 yards away.
Chrome topping? Do you mean the chrome bar which was in front of the rear
seat. It wouldn't offer any protection for a shot from behind.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by d***@gmail.com
Old, ill-maintained rifles, are still able to shoot bullets that kill.
Sure, if you're only 10 feet away.
Why haven't YOU shown us your shooting tests?
You have the paper targets, but you don't have any bullet holes in them.
It's awfully easy to bluff, but harder to prove.
How about if we shoot an apple off the top of your head with a Carcano?
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-23 14:51:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
I'm wondering how many CTs, who claim that Oswald's rifle was a piece of
junk, would be willing for somebody to take that rifle out of the archives
in its current state, loaded, and have it pointed at them from a distance
of 88 yards and feel safe.
I wonder how many WC defenders would be stupid enough to take Oswald's
rifle in its current state and actually fire it.
So tell us which end of Oswald's rifle would you rather be on when it is
fired.
Post by Anthony Marsh
It would probably blow
up in their hands.
Does that mean you'd choose to be on the muzzle end?
No, silly. I am suggesting that you pull the trigger.
But wear safety glasses in case it blows up in your hands. Did you
notice that none of the experts in the CBS tests wore safety glasses?
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
You ASSuME that his rifle fired the fatal shot
because you can't prove it.
All the recovered bullets came from that rifle. All the recovered shells
There you go again, making up crap.
Only one bullet was recovered, CE 399 and that was found in the
hospital. What elese you got? Fragments. You can't even understand the
difference between fragments and whole bullets. Frazier said that the
fragments they recovered could have come from 1 or 2 bullets.
I and many others think they all came from one bullet, but that is not
the absolute proof you always demand from consiracy believers, but never
provide yourself.
Post by bigdog
came from that rifle. Because the bullets passed through the victims, you
take the position that we can't figure out which bullets hit them. How
silly.
Nope. It's fun to guess, but you can't prove.
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
If the fatal shot came from the front that's another miss from behind.
Now why don't you tell us about all the proof you have for your frontal
shot and we can stack that up against the evidence that the shots came
from above and behind. Should make for an interesting comparison.
First, the witesses who heard a shot from the grassy knoll. They are the
first clue. The HSCA actually tested it and found that one shot was
fired from the grassy knoll. Second, the bullet hole on the frontal bone
of JFK's head.
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
If JFK was shot in the back by one bullet and Connally hit by a second
bullet that means there was a miss from behind.
So do you think CE399 hit JFK or Connally? Which ever you choose, show us
Can't be sure, but more likely Connally. I think the bullet that hit JFK
in the back would not just stop in his body. The throat wound is proof
that it exited and likely was deflected up and out of the limo.
Post by bigdog
the other bullet that you think hit them. You are always demanding that we
We have CE 399 hitting Connally and maybe another bullet hit Connally
and broke apart into many fragments. One of those hit the chrome
topping. I do not like Mark Furhman's theory, but it is almost possible.
Post by bigdog
show you the bullet from the shot that missed. Seems only reasonable you
should be able to do the same for the shots you hypothesize.
I can show you CE 399 and I can show you the fragments from another
bullet or two, but there is not another intact bullet recovered from the
crime scene. It may have gone over the chrome topping and 1/4 mile
beyond Dealey Plaza. It will be found by archelogists in 3025 using an
advanced radar technology.
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
So if you find a car that still had a chrome topping, I would be safe
sitting in the rear seat from a shooter 88 yards away.
Chrome topping? Do you mean the chrome bar which was in front of the rear
seat. It wouldn't offer any protection for a shot from behind.
No, that is called the parade bar. Passengers would hold onto that when
they stand up during a parade. Some people call the piece of trim above
the windshield the chrome topping. You don't have to. You can just call
it the trim. But then wags will ask you which trim piece you mean.
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by d***@gmail.com
Old, ill-maintained rifles, are still able to shoot bullets that kill.
Sure, if you're only 10 feet away.
Why haven't YOU shown us your shooting tests?
You have the paper targets, but you don't have any bullet holes in them.
It's awfully easy to bluff, but harder to prove.
How about if we shoot an apple off the top of your head with a Carcano?
I'll pay you $10 if you can shoot an apple off the top of anything from
88 yards away. But you only get one shot. Who the Hell do you think you
are? William Tell?
bigdog
2018-11-24 20:15:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
I'm wondering how many CTs, who claim that Oswald's rifle was a piece of
junk, would be willing for somebody to take that rifle out of the archives
in its current state, loaded, and have it pointed at them from a distance
of 88 yards and feel safe.
I wonder how many WC defenders would be stupid enough to take Oswald's
rifle in its current state and actually fire it.
So tell us which end of Oswald's rifle would you rather be on when it is
fired.
Post by Anthony Marsh
It would probably blow
up in their hands.
Does that mean you'd choose to be on the muzzle end?
No, silly. I am suggesting that you pull the trigger.
But wear safety glasses in case it blows up in your hands. Did you
notice that none of the experts in the CBS tests wore safety glasses?
You said it would PROBABLY blow up in the shooter's hands. That means it
is more likely than not that would happen which would mean the muzzle end
would be the safer place to be. So I ask again. If you had to choose
between being the shooter of the rifle or standing in front of it when it
was fired, which one would you choose?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
You ASSuME that his rifle fired the fatal shot
because you can't prove it.
All the recovered bullets came from that rifle. All the recovered shells
There you go again, making up crap.
Only one bullet was recovered, CE 399 and that was found in the
hospital. What elese you got? Fragments.
Two of those fragments could be positively matched to the Carcano.
Post by Anthony Marsh
You can't even understand the
difference between fragments and whole bullets. Frazier said that the
fragments they recovered could have come from 1 or 2 bullets.
If the traceable fragments came from two different bullets, that would
mean we would have evidence of three bullets fired from the Carcano. The
far greater likelihood is those fragments came from the same bullet which
means we have two bullets in evidence.
Post by Anthony Marsh
I and many others think they all came from one bullet, but that is not
the absolute proof you always demand from consiracy believers, but never
provide yourself.
Absolute proof is not necessary. If Oswald fired 3 bullets into the limo
with one of those bullets not striking any of the occupants or separate
bullets hit JFK and JBC, that still fits with Oswald being the assassin.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
came from that rifle. Because the bullets passed through the victims, you
take the position that we can't figure out which bullets hit them. How
silly.
Nope. It's fun to guess, but you can't prove.
There is a great deal we can prove and a great deal we can say with is
highly likely. Combined, those elements clearly point to Oswald as the
assassin.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
If the fatal shot came from the front that's another miss from behind.
Now why don't you tell us about all the proof you have for your frontal
shot and we can stack that up against the evidence that the shots came
from above and behind. Should make for an interesting comparison.
First, the witesses who heard a shot from the grassy knoll. They are the
first clue. The HSCA actually tested it and found that one shot was
fired from the grassy knoll. Second, the bullet hole on the frontal bone
of JFK's head.
Most of the witnesses only heard 3 shots and most of the witnesses thought
the shots came from only one location. That means one body of witnesses
got the location wrong. The HSCA's acoustics evidence which they claimed
was evidence of a fourth shot has been thoroughly debunked.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
If JFK was shot in the back by one bullet and Connally hit by a second
bullet that means there was a miss from behind.
So do you think CE399 hit JFK or Connally? Which ever you choose, show us
Can't be sure, but more likely Connally. I think the bullet that hit JFK
in the back would not just stop in his body. The throat wound is proof
that it exited and likely was deflected up and out of the limo.
Why is that likely? Because you need that to have happened for your theory
to hold water? It couldn't be that your theory is FUBAR.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
the other bullet that you think hit them. You are always demanding that we
We have CE 399 hitting Connally and maybe another bullet hit Connally
and broke apart into many fragments. One of those hit the chrome
topping. I do not like Mark Furhman's theory, but it is almost possible.
Sounds like you are guessing. I can understand why you wouldn't want to be
pinned down because that would require some evidence.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
show you the bullet from the shot that missed. Seems only reasonable you
should be able to do the same for the shots you hypothesize.
I can show you CE 399 and I can show you the fragments from another
bullet or two, but there is not another intact bullet recovered from the
crime scene. It may have gone over the chrome topping and 1/4 mile
beyond Dealey Plaza. It will be found by archelogists in 3025 using an
advanced radar technology.
Why don't you hypothesize an ice bullet? It would be no less silly.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
So if you find a car that still had a chrome topping, I would be safe
sitting in the rear seat from a shooter 88 yards away.
Chrome topping? Do you mean the chrome bar which was in front of the rear
seat. It wouldn't offer any protection for a shot from behind.
No, that is called the parade bar. Passengers would hold onto that when
they stand up during a parade. Some people call the piece of trim above
the windshield the chrome topping. You don't have to. You can just call
it the trim. But then wags will ask you which trim piece you mean.
Why don't you clear up the confusion and tell us what YOU were referring
to when the term chrome topping.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by d***@gmail.com
Old, ill-maintained rifles, are still able to shoot bullets that kill.
Sure, if you're only 10 feet away.
Why haven't YOU shown us your shooting tests?
You have the paper targets, but you don't have any bullet holes in them.
It's awfully easy to bluff, but harder to prove.
How about if we shoot an apple off the top of your head with a Carcano?
I'll pay you $10 if you can shoot an apple off the top of anything from
88 yards away. But you only get one shot. Who the Hell do you think you
are? William Tell?
I'm game if you are. Given my skill level, I'd put the odds of successful
shot at about 50-50.
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-26 00:50:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
It was good enough to do the job that Oswald intended it for. That's all
that matters.
I'm wondering how many CTs, who claim that Oswald's rifle was a piece of
junk, would be willing for somebody to take that rifle out of the archives
in its current state, loaded, and have it pointed at them from a distance
of 88 yards and feel safe.
I wonder how many WC defenders would be stupid enough to take Oswald's
rifle in its current state and actually fire it.
So tell us which end of Oswald's rifle would you rather be on when it is
fired.
Post by Anthony Marsh
It would probably blow
up in their hands.
Does that mean you'd choose to be on the muzzle end?
No, silly. I am suggesting that you pull the trigger.
But wear safety glasses in case it blows up in your hands. Did you
notice that none of the experts in the CBS tests wore safety glasses?
You said it would PROBABLY blow up in the shooter's hands. That means it
is more likely than not that would happen which would mean the muzzle end
would be the safer place to be. So I ask again. If you had to choose
between being the shooter of the rifle or standing in front of it when it
was fired, which one would you choose?
Neither. False choice.
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
You ASSuME that his rifle fired the fatal shot
because you can't prove it.
All the recovered bullets came from that rifle. All the recovered shells
Stop repeating the same mistake every day. Only one bullet was recovered
and some fragments.
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
There you go again, making up crap.
Only one bullet was recovered, CE 399 and that was found in the
hospital. What elese you got? Fragments.
Two of those fragments could be positively matched to the Carcano.
Sounds good. Did YOU do that?
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
You can't even understand the
difference between fragments and whole bullets. Frazier said that the
fragments they recovered could have come from 1 or 2 bullets.
If the traceable fragments came from two different bullets, that would
mean we would have evidence of three bullets fired from the Carcano. The
far greater likelihood is those fragments came from the same bullet which
means we have two bullets in evidence.
So what? Frazier said it was possible.
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
I and many others think they all came from one bullet, but that is not
the absolute proof you always demand from consiracy believers, but never
provide yourself.
Absolute proof is not necessary. If Oswald fired 3 bullets into the limo
Funny how when I say something, you demand absolute proof. But when you
say something you say that absolute proof is not necessary. WC defenders
are always hypocrites.
Post by bigdog
with one of those bullets not striking any of the occupants or separate
bullets hit JFK and JBC, that still fits with Oswald being the assassin.
I don't think Oswald was a shooter, but I think one shot from behind
missed.
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
came from that rifle. Because the bullets passed through the victims, you
take the position that we can't figure out which bullets hit them. How
silly.
Nope. It's fun to guess, but you can't prove.
There is a great deal we can prove and a great deal we can say with is
highly likely. Combined, those elements clearly point to Oswald as the
assassin.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
If the fatal shot came from the front that's another miss from behind.
Now why don't you tell us about all the proof you have for your frontal
shot and we can stack that up against the evidence that the shots came
from above and behind. Should make for an interesting comparison.
First, the witesses who heard a shot from the grassy knoll. They are the
first clue. The HSCA actually tested it and found that one shot was
fired from the grassy knoll. Second, the bullet hole on the frontal bone
of JFK's head.
Most of the witnesses only heard 3 shots and most of the witnesses thought
Most of the witnesses said that shots came from the grassy knoll. So
much for your appeal to authority.
Post by bigdog
the shots came from only one location. That means one body of witnesses
got the location wrong. The HSCA's acoustics evidence which they claimed
was evidence of a fourth shot has been thoroughly debunked.
No. I proved that the debunking was wrong. The acoustical experts and
Blakey stand by their work.
The NAS panel lied.
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
If JFK was shot in the back by one bullet and Connally hit by a second
bullet that means there was a miss from behind.
So do you think CE399 hit JFK or Connally? Which ever you choose, show us
Can't be sure, but more likely Connally. I think the bullet that hit JFK
in the back would not just stop in his body. The throat wound is proof
that it exited and likely was deflected up and out of the limo.
Why is that likely? Because you need that to have happened for your theory
to hold water? It couldn't be that your theory is FUBAR.
The wounding characteristics from tests done by the WC and others shows
that the Carcano bullet will not stop in JFK's body. Neither did any
shot stop in Connally's torso.
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
the other bullet that you think hit them. You are always demanding that we
We have CE 399 hitting Connally and maybe another bullet hit Connally
and broke apart into many fragments. One of those hit the chrome
topping. I do not like Mark Furhman's theory, but it is almost possible.
Sounds like you are guessing. I can understand why you wouldn't want to be
pinned down because that would require some evidence.
I'm not guessing. It's based on tests.
And Frazier's opinions.
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
show you the bullet from the shot that missed. Seems only reasonable you
should be able to do the same for the shots you hypothesize.
I can show you CE 399 and I can show you the fragments from another
bullet or two, but there is not another intact bullet recovered from the
crime scene. It may have gone over the chrome topping and 1/4 mile
beyond Dealey Plaza. It will be found by archelogists in 3025 using an
advanced radar technology.
Why don't you hypothesize an ice bullet? It would be no less silly.
We already went through this before. That was the Humes theory and he knew
nothing about ice bullets. Mythbusters actually tested it and found that
an ice bullet COULD be used IF the throat wound was an entrance. But we
know it wasn't.
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
So if you find a car that still had a chrome topping, I would be safe
sitting in the rear seat from a shooter 88 yards away.
Chrome topping? Do you mean the chrome bar which was in front of the rear
seat. It wouldn't offer any protection for a shot from behind.
No, that is called the parade bar. Passengers would hold onto that when
they stand up during a parade. Some people call the piece of trim above
the windshield the chrome topping. You don't have to. You can just call
it the trim. But then wags will ask you which trim piece you mean.
Why don't you clear up the confusion and tell us what YOU were referring
to when the term chrome topping.
We've only called it that for about 55 years so maybe you haven't been
paying attention.


Loading Image...
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by d***@gmail.com
Old, ill-maintained rifles, are still able to shoot bullets that kill.
Sure, if you're only 10 feet away.
Why haven't YOU shown us your shooting tests?
You have the paper targets, but you don't have any bullet holes in them.
It's awfully easy to bluff, but harder to prove.
How about if we shoot an apple off the top of your head with a Carcano?
I'll pay you $10 if you can shoot an apple off the top of anything from
88 yards away. But you only get one shot. Who the Hell do you think you
are? William Tell?
I'm game if you are. Given my skill level, I'd put the odds of successful
shot at about 50-50.
Which model of Carcano do you have? I don't want to take advantage of
you if you only have an old 1891 with a battle zero of 300 meters.
Ace Kefford
2018-11-21 02:54:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by claviger
Was Oswald's Rifle Junk?
http://youtu.be/vQlRFm5uvbo
Operating the 6.5mm 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano rifle
http://youtu.be/x-to90d1Uf8
6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, 6 shots in 5.1 seconds.
http://youtu.be/h4c5Zr7hzzA
JFK Assassination Fast & Accurate Carcano
http://youtu.be/LcjKYBccoqs
As the old timers say, "Good enough to get the job done."

Crap I just saw BigDog beat me to that line. He must be an old timer.
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