Discussion:
Z-film question
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bigdog
2018-11-15 23:24:12 UTC
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Whenever I want to look at individual frames of the Z-film, I use
Costella's collection.

http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/

One thing I am curious about is that the color seems washed out in frames
155-156 and the left side of the frame is cutoff. 157 doesn't look quite
right either although it wasn't truncated like the previous two frames.
Was that the case with the original copies of the film or did that happen
during subsequent copying of the frames. Does anybody know the reason that
this happened.

The reason I noticed this is because I belief Oswald's first shot would
have struck the pavement around that time and I was looking for any
visible clue in frames 153-156. I haven't found any although the condition
of 155-156 would make that difficult if that is when the shot struck.
1***@mail.com
2018-11-16 18:22:01 UTC
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Post by bigdog
Whenever I want to look at individual frames of the Z-film, I use
Costella's collection.
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
One thing I am curious about is that the color seems washed out in frames
155-156 and the left side of the frame is cutoff. 157 doesn't look quite
right either although it wasn't truncated like the previous two frames.
Was that the case with the original copies of the film or did that happen
during subsequent copying of the frames. Does anybody know the reason that
this happened.
The reason I noticed this is because I belief Oswald's first shot would
have struck the pavement around that time and I was looking for any
visible clue in frames 153-156. I haven't found any although the condition
of 155-156 would make that difficult if that is when the shot struck.
A Lone Nutter has noticed something in the Zapruder film! This is one
small step for a big dog, one giant leap for Nutter kind!
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-17 16:03:10 UTC
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Post by 1***@mail.com
Post by bigdog
Whenever I want to look at individual frames of the Z-film, I use
Costella's collection.
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
One thing I am curious about is that the color seems washed out in frames
155-156 and the left side of the frame is cutoff. 157 doesn't look quite
right either although it wasn't truncated like the previous two frames.
Was that the case with the original copies of the film or did that happen
during subsequent copying of the frames. Does anybody know the reason that
this happened.
The reason I noticed this is because I belief Oswald's first shot would
have struck the pavement around that time and I was looking for any
visible clue in frames 153-156. I haven't found any although the condition
of 155-156 would make that difficult if that is when the shot struck.
A Lone Nutter has noticed something in the Zapruder film! This is one
small step for a big dog, one giant leap for Nutter kind!
Not really. He only hoaxing us.
He more complaining about the QUALITY that conspiracy believers upload.
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-17 05:50:53 UTC
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Post by bigdog
Whenever I want to look at individual frames of the Z-film, I use
Costella's collection.
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
One thing I am curious about is that the color seems washed out in frames
155-156 and the left side of the frame is cutoff. 157 doesn't look quite
right either although it wasn't truncated like the previous two frames.
Was that the case with the original copies of the film or did that happen
during subsequent copying of the frames. Does anybody know the reason that
this happened.
Yes, I am not here to name names or point fingers, but when you are
talking about the Zaperuder film you are only talking about very poor
COPIES.
You need to SHOW people exactly how hideous those two frames are.
Anyone can see that they could not possibly be originals.

Loading Image...
Loading Image...

It's called Yellowing. In the real world mistakes happen on almost any
flm, even Hollywood. You should not be citing that source.
Even the MPI production had some errors. Go beyond those and look for
the best sources. You will not see anything as small as a hole in the
pavement or a bullet in flight. Can you see the jacket buttons?
For many years all we serious researchers had available was a horrible
quality bootleg black and white copy. So it was hard to make any
definitive claims. You souldn't even try. But it's fun to speculate.
Post by bigdog
The reason I noticed this is because I belief Oswald's first shot would
have struck the pavement around that time and I was looking for any
visible clue in frames 153-156. I haven't found any although the condition
of 155-156 would make that difficult if that is when the shot struck.
bigdog
2018-11-18 00:13:17 UTC
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Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Whenever I want to look at individual frames of the Z-film, I use
Costella's collection.
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
One thing I am curious about is that the color seems washed out in frames
155-156 and the left side of the frame is cutoff. 157 doesn't look quite
right either although it wasn't truncated like the previous two frames.
Was that the case with the original copies of the film or did that happen
during subsequent copying of the frames. Does anybody know the reason that
this happened.
Yes, I am not here to name names or point fingers, but when you are
talking about the Zaperuder film you are only talking about very poor
COPIES.
You need to SHOW people exactly how hideous those two frames are.
Anyone can see that they could not possibly be originals.
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z155.jpg
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z156.jpg
It's called Yellowing. In the real world mistakes happen on almost any
flm, even Hollywood. You should not be citing that source.
Even the MPI production had some errors. Go beyond those and look for
the best sources. You will not see anything as small as a hole in the
pavement or a bullet in flight. Can you see the jacket buttons?
For many years all we serious researchers had available was a horrible
quality bootleg black and white copy. So it was hard to make any
definitive claims. You souldn't even try. But it's fun to speculate.
Post by bigdog
The reason I noticed this is because I belief Oswald's first shot would
have struck the pavement around that time and I was looking for any
visible clue in frames 153-156. I haven't found any although the condition
of 155-156 would make that difficult if that is when the shot struck.
What I thought might appear would have been a cloud of debris from the
first shot hitting pavement. I figured it would be a longshot since it
likely would have been discovered a long time ago if there was a
definitive clue. I simply was wondering if there were better copies of
those two frames available. If there had been visible evidence of a bullet
hitting pavement, it could well have been in the truncated portions of
those two frames. It is also my best guess the first shot would have
struck a few frames earlier but since it is just a guess, I have to allow
for the possibility I could be wrong about that.
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-19 15:56:32 UTC
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Post by bigdog
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Whenever I want to look at individual frames of the Z-film, I use
Costella's collection.
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
One thing I am curious about is that the color seems washed out in frames
155-156 and the left side of the frame is cutoff. 157 doesn't look quite
right either although it wasn't truncated like the previous two frames.
Was that the case with the original copies of the film or did that happen
during subsequent copying of the frames. Does anybody know the reason that
this happened.
Yes, I am not here to name names or point fingers, but when you are
talking about the Zaperuder film you are only talking about very poor
COPIES.
You need to SHOW people exactly how hideous those two frames are.
Anyone can see that they could not possibly be originals.
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z155.jpg
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z156.jpg
It's called Yellowing. In the real world mistakes happen on almost any
flm, even Hollywood. You should not be citing that source.
Even the MPI production had some errors. Go beyond those and look for
the best sources. You will not see anything as small as a hole in the
pavement or a bullet in flight. Can you see the jacket buttons?
For many years all we serious researchers had available was a horrible
quality bootleg black and white copy. So it was hard to make any
definitive claims. You souldn't even try. But it's fun to speculate.
Post by bigdog
The reason I noticed this is because I belief Oswald's first shot would
have struck the pavement around that time and I was looking for any
visible clue in frames 153-156. I haven't found any although the condition
of 155-156 would make that difficult if that is when the shot struck.
What I thought might appear would have been a cloud of debris from the
first shot hitting pavement. I figured it would be a longshot since it
Nope. Doesn't happen that way and is practically impossible to see on an
8mm film. Again, can you see the jacket buttons?
Post by bigdog
likely would have been discovered a long time ago if there was a
definitive clue. I simply was wondering if there were better copies of
Yeah, maybe it was but you shouted him down.
Post by bigdog
those two frames available. If there had been visible evidence of a bullet
hitting pavement, it could well have been in the truncated portions of
those two frames. It is also my best guess the first shot would have
Truncated?
WHich frames show the pavement where you think a bullet hit? Near the
limo or near the SS? How early is your shot?
Post by bigdog
struck a few frames earlier but since it is just a guess, I have to allow
for the possibility I could be wrong about that.
OMG! YOU could be wrong? Is this the end of the world already?
I was hoping for a few more days.
C***@yahoo.com
2018-11-20 15:56:31 UTC
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Remember the copy of the film that was used on Nova in 1988? That is a
remarkably bright copy. Haven't seen a bright,good copy that's exactly
like that since.
Steve M. Galbraith
2018-11-21 02:52:32 UTC
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Post by C***@yahoo.com
Remember the copy of the film that was used on Nova in 1988? That is a
remarkably bright copy. Haven't seen a bright,good copy that's exactly
like that since.
Yes, it's here:


Scroll to the 13:40 or so mark. It is very bright and clear.
Allan G. Johnson
2018-11-22 16:33:39 UTC
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Permalink
Post by bigdog
Whenever I want to look at individual frames of the Z-film, I use
Costella's collection.
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
One thing I am curious about is that the color seems washed out in frames
155-156 and the left side of the frame is cutoff. 157 doesn't look quite
right either although it wasn't truncated like the previous two frames.
Was that the case with the original copies of the film or did that happen
during subsequent copying of the frames. Does anybody know the reason that
this happened.
The reason I noticed this is because I belief Oswald's first shot would
have struck the pavement around that time and I was looking for any
visible clue in frames 153-156. I haven't found any although the condition
of 155-156 would make that difficult if that is when the shot struck.
In a bit of bad luck or irony, Dave Powers, personal aide and friend of
JFK riding in the followup car halfback, was filming the motorcade, and
all appearances during the Texas trip, but ran out of film in his 8mm
camera just before reaching the intersection of Main and Houston streets.
He wanted to wait until reaching the Trade Mart before reloading the
camera. I wonder what he could have captured on film being just behind
the Presidential limo during the shooting?
Mark
2018-11-23 01:27:33 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Whenever I want to look at individual frames of the Z-film, I use
Costella's collection.
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
One thing I am curious about is that the color seems washed out in frames
155-156 and the left side of the frame is cutoff. 157 doesn't look quite
right either although it wasn't truncated like the previous two frames.
Was that the case with the original copies of the film or did that happen
during subsequent copying of the frames. Does anybody know the reason that
this happened.
The reason I noticed this is because I belief Oswald's first shot would
have struck the pavement around that time and I was looking for any
visible clue in frames 153-156. I haven't found any although the condition
of 155-156 would make that difficult if that is when the shot struck.
In a bit of bad luck or irony, Dave Powers, personal aide and friend of
JFK riding in the followup car halfback, was filming the motorcade, and
all appearances during the Texas trip, but ran out of film in his 8mm
camera just before reaching the intersection of Main and Houston streets.
He wanted to wait until reaching the Trade Mart before reloading the
camera. I wonder what he could have captured on film being just behind
the Presidential limo during the shooting?
Careful there, Allan. You're sounding like part of the cover-up to me.
I've read that some CTs actually think that because Powers ran out of film
before the shots were fired, there was something suspicious going on
there. And others believe he was at least a silent partner in Lifton's
Body Snatchers fantasy.

This is what some say about a man who became JFK's best friend after
they first met in 1946.

Mark
Allan G. Johnson
2018-11-24 16:09:34 UTC
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Post by Mark
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Whenever I want to look at individual frames of the Z-film, I use
Costella's collection.
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
One thing I am curious about is that the color seems washed out in frames
155-156 and the left side of the frame is cutoff. 157 doesn't look quite
right either although it wasn't truncated like the previous two frames.
Was that the case with the original copies of the film or did that happen
during subsequent copying of the frames. Does anybody know the reason that
this happened.
The reason I noticed this is because I belief Oswald's first shot would
have struck the pavement around that time and I was looking for any
visible clue in frames 153-156. I haven't found any although the condition
of 155-156 would make that difficult if that is when the shot struck.
In a bit of bad luck or irony, Dave Powers, personal aide and friend of
JFK riding in the followup car halfback, was filming the motorcade, and
all appearances during the Texas trip, but ran out of film in his 8mm
camera just before reaching the intersection of Main and Houston streets.
He wanted to wait until reaching the Trade Mart before reloading the
camera. I wonder what he could have captured on film being just behind
the Presidential limo during the shooting?
Careful there, Allan. You're sounding like part of the cover-up to me.
I've read that some CTs actually think that because Powers ran out of film
before the shots were fired, there was something suspicious going on
there. And others believe he was at least a silent partner in Lifton's
Body Snatchers fantasy.
This is what some say about a man who became JFK's best friend after
they first met in 1946.
Mark
CTs tend to see and interpret anything they want in their quest to find
and confirm a conspiracy. Unless something makes sense and can match and
reinforce actual known evidence it's just unicorn hunting.

I'm more skeptical, not cynical, in what evidence makes sense. It
makes sense to me that Powers ran out of film at that time. It was
virtually the end of a long motorcade, the crowd was thinning and he
needed more film ready at the Trade Mart. To say that was part of a
conspiracy coverup would mean any other film taken at that time, including
Zapruders, wouldn't have seen the light of day. It's too controlling,
convoluted and involved to be realistic. It's impossible to control all
aspects of what witnesses saw, did or filmed during that passage through
Deally Plaza. As I said before, there must be an easier way to kill a
President.
Steve M. Galbraith
2018-11-24 23:21:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Mark
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Whenever I want to look at individual frames of the Z-film, I use
Costella's collection.
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
One thing I am curious about is that the color seems washed out in frames
155-156 and the left side of the frame is cutoff. 157 doesn't look quite
right either although it wasn't truncated like the previous two frames.
Was that the case with the original copies of the film or did that happen
during subsequent copying of the frames. Does anybody know the reason that
this happened.
The reason I noticed this is because I belief Oswald's first shot would
have struck the pavement around that time and I was looking for any
visible clue in frames 153-156. I haven't found any although the condition
of 155-156 would make that difficult if that is when the shot struck.
In a bit of bad luck or irony, Dave Powers, personal aide and friend of
JFK riding in the followup car halfback, was filming the motorcade, and
all appearances during the Texas trip, but ran out of film in his 8mm
camera just before reaching the intersection of Main and Houston streets.
He wanted to wait until reaching the Trade Mart before reloading the
camera. I wonder what he could have captured on film being just behind
the Presidential limo during the shooting?
Careful there, Allan. You're sounding like part of the cover-up to me.
I've read that some CTs actually think that because Powers ran out of film
before the shots were fired, there was something suspicious going on
there. And others believe he was at least a silent partner in Lifton's
Body Snatchers fantasy.
This is what some say about a man who became JFK's best friend after
they first met in 1946.
Mark
CTs tend to see and interpret anything they want in their quest to find
and confirm a conspiracy. Unless something makes sense and can match and
reinforce actual known evidence it's just unicorn hunting.
I'm more skeptical, not cynical, in what evidence makes sense. It
makes sense to me that Powers ran out of film at that time. It was
virtually the end of a long motorcade, the crowd was thinning and he
needed more film ready at the Trade Mart. To say that was part of a
conspiracy coverup would mean any other film taken at that time, including
Zapruders, wouldn't have seen the light of day. It's too controlling,
convoluted and involved to be realistic. It's impossible to control all
aspects of what witnesses saw, did or filmed during that passage through
Deally Plaza. As I said before, there must be an easier way to kill a
President.
"As I said before, there must be an easier way to kill a President."

Yes, but the conspiracy advocate response is always, "How would you know
how they would do something like this?"

Of course they claim this and that happened, shooters here and there,
evidence planted and altered, witnesses coerced and intimidated...they can
go into great detail as to how "they" pulled this off.

Apparently they know how it could be pulled off while anyone questioning
them doesn't know how it could be pulled off.
bigdog
2018-11-24 23:32:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Mark
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Whenever I want to look at individual frames of the Z-film, I use
Costella's collection.
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
One thing I am curious about is that the color seems washed out in frames
155-156 and the left side of the frame is cutoff. 157 doesn't look quite
right either although it wasn't truncated like the previous two frames.
Was that the case with the original copies of the film or did that happen
during subsequent copying of the frames. Does anybody know the reason that
this happened.
The reason I noticed this is because I belief Oswald's first shot would
have struck the pavement around that time and I was looking for any
visible clue in frames 153-156. I haven't found any although the condition
of 155-156 would make that difficult if that is when the shot struck.
In a bit of bad luck or irony, Dave Powers, personal aide and friend of
JFK riding in the followup car halfback, was filming the motorcade, and
all appearances during the Texas trip, but ran out of film in his 8mm
camera just before reaching the intersection of Main and Houston streets.
He wanted to wait until reaching the Trade Mart before reloading the
camera. I wonder what he could have captured on film being just behind
the Presidential limo during the shooting?
Careful there, Allan. You're sounding like part of the cover-up to me.
I've read that some CTs actually think that because Powers ran out of film
before the shots were fired, there was something suspicious going on
there. And others believe he was at least a silent partner in Lifton's
Body Snatchers fantasy.
This is what some say about a man who became JFK's best friend after
they first met in 1946.
Mark
CTs tend to see and interpret anything they want in their quest to find
and confirm a conspiracy. Unless something makes sense and can match and
reinforce actual known evidence it's just unicorn hunting.
I'm more skeptical, not cynical, in what evidence makes sense. It
makes sense to me that Powers ran out of film at that time. It was
virtually the end of a long motorcade, the crowd was thinning and he
needed more film ready at the Trade Mart. To say that was part of a
conspiracy coverup would mean any other film taken at that time, including
Zapruders, wouldn't have seen the light of day. It's too controlling,
convoluted and involved to be realistic. It's impossible to control all
aspects of what witnesses saw, did or filmed during that passage through
Deally Plaza. As I said before, there must be an easier way to kill a
President.
Of the times during the Texas trip, there were much better opportunities
for a conspiracy to hit JFK. That morning in front of the Ft. Worth hotel
when he was a stationary target for several minutes would have been a much
better place. Dealey Plaza would be way down the list of places one would
choose to make the hit. Oswald didn't choose Dealey Plaza. It was the one
that was handed to him by fate. Even then, he needed a bit of luck. The
rain stopped allowing the top to be removed. The 6th floor was vacated by
his fellow employees allowing him to set up the ambush and wait for his
target to arrive. He was spotted with the rifle in the sniper's nest
before the motorcade arrived but was assumed by the witness to be there to
offer protection.
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-26 00:54:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Mark
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Whenever I want to look at individual frames of the Z-film, I use
Costella's collection.
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
One thing I am curious about is that the color seems washed out in frames
155-156 and the left side of the frame is cutoff. 157 doesn't look quite
right either although it wasn't truncated like the previous two frames.
Was that the case with the original copies of the film or did that happen
during subsequent copying of the frames. Does anybody know the reason that
this happened.
The reason I noticed this is because I belief Oswald's first shot would
have struck the pavement around that time and I was looking for any
visible clue in frames 153-156. I haven't found any although the condition
of 155-156 would make that difficult if that is when the shot struck.
In a bit of bad luck or irony, Dave Powers, personal aide and friend of
JFK riding in the followup car halfback, was filming the motorcade, and
all appearances during the Texas trip, but ran out of film in his 8mm
camera just before reaching the intersection of Main and Houston streets.
He wanted to wait until reaching the Trade Mart before reloading the
camera. I wonder what he could have captured on film being just behind
the Presidential limo during the shooting?
Careful there, Allan. You're sounding like part of the cover-up to me.
I've read that some CTs actually think that because Powers ran out of film
before the shots were fired, there was something suspicious going on
there. And others believe he was at least a silent partner in Lifton's
Body Snatchers fantasy.
This is what some say about a man who became JFK's best friend after
they first met in 1946.
Mark
CTs tend to see and interpret anything they want in their quest to find
and confirm a conspiracy. Unless something makes sense and can match and
reinforce actual known evidence it's just unicorn hunting.
I'm more skeptical, not cynical, in what evidence makes sense. It
makes sense to me that Powers ran out of film at that time. It was
virtually the end of a long motorcade, the crowd was thinning and he
needed more film ready at the Trade Mart. To say that was part of a
conspiracy coverup would mean any other film taken at that time, including
Zapruders, wouldn't have seen the light of day. It's too controlling,
convoluted and involved to be realistic. It's impossible to control all
aspects of what witnesses saw, did or filmed during that passage through
Deally Plaza. As I said before, there must be an easier way to kill a
President.
Of the times during the Texas trip, there were much better opportunities
for a conspiracy to hit JFK. That morning in front of the Ft. Worth hotel
when he was a stationary target for several minutes would have been a much
Cute. You see any countersnipers there? Any SS watching for shooters?
Post by bigdog
better place. Dealey Plaza would be way down the list of places one would
choose to make the hit. Oswald didn't choose Dealey Plaza. It was the one
that was handed to him by fate. Even then, he needed a bit of luck. The
So you say it was impssible for Oswald to take a bus and go somewhere
else? Did General Walker visit the TSBD so that Oswald could shoot at him?
Post by bigdog
rain stopped allowing the top to be removed. The 6th floor was vacated by
Missing comma.
Post by bigdog
his fellow employees allowing him to set up the ambush and wait for his
Didn't have to be. And he could have gone to the 7th floor.
Post by bigdog
target to arrive. He was spotted with the rifle in the sniper's nest
False. No one saw Oswald with a rifle.
Post by bigdog
before the motorcade arrived but was assumed by the witness to be there to
offer protection.
Yes, most SS agents look like Oswald, all shabby in a junky shirt.
Allan G. Johnson
2018-11-27 06:25:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Mark
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Whenever I want to look at individual frames of the Z-film, I use
Costella's collection.
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
One thing I am curious about is that the color seems washed out in frames
155-156 and the left side of the frame is cutoff. 157 doesn't look quite
right either although it wasn't truncated like the previous two frames.
Was that the case with the original copies of the film or did that happen
during subsequent copying of the frames. Does anybody know the reason that
this happened.
The reason I noticed this is because I belief Oswald's first shot would
have struck the pavement around that time and I was looking for any
visible clue in frames 153-156. I haven't found any although the condition
of 155-156 would make that difficult if that is when the shot struck.
In a bit of bad luck or irony, Dave Powers, personal aide and friend of
JFK riding in the followup car halfback, was filming the motorcade, and
all appearances during the Texas trip, but ran out of film in his 8mm
camera just before reaching the intersection of Main and Houston streets.
He wanted to wait until reaching the Trade Mart before reloading the
camera. I wonder what he could have captured on film being just behind
the Presidential limo during the shooting?
Careful there, Allan. You're sounding like part of the cover-up to me.
I've read that some CTs actually think that because Powers ran out of film
before the shots were fired, there was something suspicious going on
there. And others believe he was at least a silent partner in Lifton's
Body Snatchers fantasy.
This is what some say about a man who became JFK's best friend after
they first met in 1946.
Mark
CTs tend to see and interpret anything they want in their quest to find
and confirm a conspiracy. Unless something makes sense and can match and
reinforce actual known evidence it's just unicorn hunting.
I'm more skeptical, not cynical, in what evidence makes sense. It
makes sense to me that Powers ran out of film at that time. It was
virtually the end of a long motorcade, the crowd was thinning and he
needed more film ready at the Trade Mart. To say that was part of a
conspiracy coverup would mean any other film taken at that time, including
Zapruders, wouldn't have seen the light of day. It's too controlling,
convoluted and involved to be realistic. It's impossible to control all
aspects of what witnesses saw, did or filmed during that passage through
Deally Plaza. As I said before, there must be an easier way to kill a
President.
Of the times during the Texas trip, there were much better opportunities
for a conspiracy to hit JFK. That morning in front of the Ft. Worth hotel
when he was a stationary target for several minutes would have been a much
Cute. You see any countersnipers there? Any SS watching for shooters?
Post by bigdog
better place. Dealey Plaza would be way down the list of places one would
choose to make the hit. Oswald didn't choose Dealey Plaza. It was the one
that was handed to him by fate. Even then, he needed a bit of luck. The
So you say it was impssible for Oswald to take a bus and go somewhere
else? Did General Walker visit the TSBD so that Oswald could shoot at him?
Post by bigdog
rain stopped allowing the top to be removed. The 6th floor was vacated by
Missing comma.
Post by bigdog
his fellow employees allowing him to set up the ambush and wait for his
Didn't have to be. And he could have gone to the 7th floor.
Post by bigdog
target to arrive. He was spotted with the rifle in the sniper's nest
False. No one saw Oswald with a rifle.
Post by bigdog
before the motorcade arrived but was assumed by the witness to be there to
offer protection.
Yes, most SS agents look like Oswald, all shabby in a junky shirt.
Around 12:15, Arnold Rowland, standing next to his wife on Houston St.
waiting for the motorcade to arrive, said he noticed someone through the
window on the west end of the 6th floor standing there holding a rifle at
port arms. Although it doesn't confirm it was Oswald, it does support a
rifleman on the 6th floor before the shooting occurred.
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-28 14:17:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Mark
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Whenever I want to look at individual frames of the Z-film, I use
Costella's collection.
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
One thing I am curious about is that the color seems washed out in frames
155-156 and the left side of the frame is cutoff. 157 doesn't look quite
right either although it wasn't truncated like the previous two frames.
Was that the case with the original copies of the film or did that happen
during subsequent copying of the frames. Does anybody know the reason that
this happened.
The reason I noticed this is because I belief Oswald's first shot would
have struck the pavement around that time and I was looking for any
visible clue in frames 153-156. I haven't found any although the condition
of 155-156 would make that difficult if that is when the shot struck.
In a bit of bad luck or irony, Dave Powers, personal aide and friend of
JFK riding in the followup car halfback, was filming the motorcade, and
all appearances during the Texas trip, but ran out of film in his 8mm
camera just before reaching the intersection of Main and Houston streets.
He wanted to wait until reaching the Trade Mart before reloading the
camera. I wonder what he could have captured on film being just behind
the Presidential limo during the shooting?
Careful there, Allan. You're sounding like part of the cover-up to me.
I've read that some CTs actually think that because Powers ran out of film
before the shots were fired, there was something suspicious going on
there. And others believe he was at least a silent partner in Lifton's
Body Snatchers fantasy.
This is what some say about a man who became JFK's best friend after
they first met in 1946.
Mark
CTs tend to see and interpret anything they want in their quest to find
and confirm a conspiracy. Unless something makes sense and can match and
reinforce actual known evidence it's just unicorn hunting.
I'm more skeptical, not cynical, in what evidence makes sense. It
makes sense to me that Powers ran out of film at that time. It was
virtually the end of a long motorcade, the crowd was thinning and he
needed more film ready at the Trade Mart. To say that was part of a
conspiracy coverup would mean any other film taken at that time, including
Zapruders, wouldn't have seen the light of day. It's too controlling,
convoluted and involved to be realistic. It's impossible to control all
aspects of what witnesses saw, did or filmed during that passage through
Deally Plaza. As I said before, there must be an easier way to kill a
President.
Of the times during the Texas trip, there were much better opportunities
for a conspiracy to hit JFK. That morning in front of the Ft. Worth hotel
when he was a stationary target for several minutes would have been a much
Cute. You see any countersnipers there? Any SS watching for shooters?
Post by bigdog
better place. Dealey Plaza would be way down the list of places one would
choose to make the hit. Oswald didn't choose Dealey Plaza. It was the one
that was handed to him by fate. Even then, he needed a bit of luck. The
So you say it was impssible for Oswald to take a bus and go somewhere
else? Did General Walker visit the TSBD so that Oswald could shoot at him?
Post by bigdog
rain stopped allowing the top to be removed. The 6th floor was vacated by
Missing comma.
Post by bigdog
his fellow employees allowing him to set up the ambush and wait for his
Didn't have to be. And he could have gone to the 7th floor.
Post by bigdog
target to arrive. He was spotted with the rifle in the sniper's nest
False. No one saw Oswald with a rifle.
Post by bigdog
before the motorcade arrived but was assumed by the witness to be there to
offer protection.
Yes, most SS agents look like Oswald, all shabby in a junky shirt.
Around 12:15, Arnold Rowland, standing next to his wife on Houston St.
waiting for the motorcade to arrive, said he noticed someone through the
window on the west end of the 6th floor standing there holding a rifle at
port arms. Although it doesn't confirm it was Oswald, it does support a
rifleman on the 6th floor before the shooting occurred.
Again, pay attention.
Does this look like a SS agent to you?

Loading Image...
Allan G. Johnson
2018-11-26 01:02:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Mark
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Whenever I want to look at individual frames of the Z-film, I use
Costella's collection.
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
One thing I am curious about is that the color seems washed out in frames
155-156 and the left side of the frame is cutoff. 157 doesn't look quite
right either although it wasn't truncated like the previous two frames.
Was that the case with the original copies of the film or did that happen
during subsequent copying of the frames. Does anybody know the reason that
this happened.
The reason I noticed this is because I belief Oswald's first shot would
have struck the pavement around that time and I was looking for any
visible clue in frames 153-156. I haven't found any although the condition
of 155-156 would make that difficult if that is when the shot struck.
In a bit of bad luck or irony, Dave Powers, personal aide and friend of
JFK riding in the followup car halfback, was filming the motorcade, and
all appearances during the Texas trip, but ran out of film in his 8mm
camera just before reaching the intersection of Main and Houston streets.
He wanted to wait until reaching the Trade Mart before reloading the
camera. I wonder what he could have captured on film being just behind
the Presidential limo during the shooting?
Careful there, Allan. You're sounding like part of the cover-up to me.
I've read that some CTs actually think that because Powers ran out of film
before the shots were fired, there was something suspicious going on
there. And others believe he was at least a silent partner in Lifton's
Body Snatchers fantasy.
This is what some say about a man who became JFK's best friend after
they first met in 1946.
Mark
CTs tend to see and interpret anything they want in their quest to find
and confirm a conspiracy. Unless something makes sense and can match and
reinforce actual known evidence it's just unicorn hunting.
I'm more skeptical, not cynical, in what evidence makes sense. It
makes sense to me that Powers ran out of film at that time. It was
virtually the end of a long motorcade, the crowd was thinning and he
needed more film ready at the Trade Mart. To say that was part of a
conspiracy coverup would mean any other film taken at that time, including
Zapruders, wouldn't have seen the light of day. It's too controlling,
convoluted and involved to be realistic. It's impossible to control all
aspects of what witnesses saw, did or filmed during that passage through
Deally Plaza. As I said before, there must be an easier way to kill a
President.
Of the times during the Texas trip, there were much better opportunities
for a conspiracy to hit JFK. That morning in front of the Ft. Worth hotel
when he was a stationary target for several minutes would have been a much
better place. Dealey Plaza would be way down the list of places one would
choose to make the hit. Oswald didn't choose Dealey Plaza. It was the one
that was handed to him by fate. Even then, he needed a bit of luck. The
rain stopped allowing the top to be removed. The 6th floor was vacated by
his fellow employees allowing him to set up the ambush and wait for his
target to arrive. He was spotted with the rifle in the sniper's nest
before the motorcade arrived but was assumed by the witness to be there to
offer protection.
The appearance in front of the Texas Hotel that morning in Ft. Worth was
impromptu, not planned. Not likely to be a conspiracy opportunity.

Also, the belief by certain people that Castro or any other Cuban group
(pro or anti JFK) were involved in a Dallas conspiracy is very unlikely.
The best opportunity for that would have been in Florida earlier that week
during Kennedys visits, including 30 miles of motorcades. Tampa and Miami
were swarming with pro and anti Castro Cubans. Conspirators would know to
use someone from those groups to act as a patsy and make it appear it was
done by a lone gunman to get back at Kennedy for the Bay of Pigs and anti
Castro policy's. Of course to think that Castro would have anything to do
with killing Kennedy is ridiculous. It would be an open and righteous
opportunity to go in and eliminate him. Castro would be signing his own
death warrant.
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-26 00:53:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Mark
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Whenever I want to look at individual frames of the Z-film, I use
Costella's collection.
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
One thing I am curious about is that the color seems washed out in frames
155-156 and the left side of the frame is cutoff. 157 doesn't look quite
right either although it wasn't truncated like the previous two frames.
Was that the case with the original copies of the film or did that happen
during subsequent copying of the frames. Does anybody know the reason that
this happened.
The reason I noticed this is because I belief Oswald's first shot would
have struck the pavement around that time and I was looking for any
visible clue in frames 153-156. I haven't found any although the condition
of 155-156 would make that difficult if that is when the shot struck.
In a bit of bad luck or irony, Dave Powers, personal aide and friend of
JFK riding in the followup car halfback, was filming the motorcade, and
all appearances during the Texas trip, but ran out of film in his 8mm
camera just before reaching the intersection of Main and Houston streets.
He wanted to wait until reaching the Trade Mart before reloading the
camera. I wonder what he could have captured on film being just behind
the Presidential limo during the shooting?
Careful there, Allan. You're sounding like part of the cover-up to me.
I've read that some CTs actually think that because Powers ran out of film
before the shots were fired, there was something suspicious going on
there. And others believe he was at least a silent partner in Lifton's
Body Snatchers fantasy.
This is what some say about a man who became JFK's best friend after
they first met in 1946.
Mark
CTs tend to see and interpret anything they want in their quest to find
and confirm a conspiracy. Unless something makes sense and can match and
reinforce actual known evidence it's just unicorn hunting.
I'm more skeptical, not cynical, in what evidence makes sense. It
makes sense to me that Powers ran out of film at that time. It was
virtually the end of a long motorcade, the crowd was thinning and he
needed more film ready at the Trade Mart. To say that was part of a
conspiracy coverup would mean any other film taken at that time, including
Well he was part of the cover-up for 40+ years. He kept quiet about having
heard a shot from the grassy knoll when the FBI tolf him not to talk about
it.
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Zapruders, wouldn't have seen the light of day. It's too controlling,
Well, the Bronson film was not seen for years.
We still can't see some films because of The Sixth Floor Museum.
Post by Allan G. Johnson
convoluted and involved to be realistic. It's impossible to control all
aspects of what witnesses saw, did or filmed during that passage through
Deally Plaza. As I said before, there must be an easier way to kill a
President.
Yes. I don't think any witnesses were shot and killed at the crime
scene. That usually only happens with Mob hits.
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-23 14:51:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Whenever I want to look at individual frames of the Z-film, I use
Costella's collection.
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
One thing I am curious about is that the color seems washed out in frames
155-156 and the left side of the frame is cutoff. 157 doesn't look quite
right either although it wasn't truncated like the previous two frames.
Was that the case with the original copies of the film or did that happen
during subsequent copying of the frames. Does anybody know the reason that
this happened.
The reason I noticed this is because I belief Oswald's first shot would
have struck the pavement around that time and I was looking for any
visible clue in frames 153-156. I haven't found any although the condition
of 155-156 would make that difficult if that is when the shot struck.
In a bit of bad luck or irony, Dave Powers, personal aide and friend of
JFK riding in the followup car halfback, was filming the motorcade, and
all appearances during the Texas trip, but ran out of film in his 8mm
camera just before reaching the intersection of Main and Houston streets.
He wanted to wait until reaching the Trade Mart before reloading the
camera. I wonder what he could have captured on film being just behind
the Presidential limo during the shooting?
Funny how he heard the shot from the grassy knoll, but did not hear any
shot from the AR-15 only 2 feet away from him.
Allan G. Johnson
2018-11-24 16:09:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Whenever I want to look at individual frames of the Z-film, I use
Costella's collection.
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
One thing I am curious about is that the color seems washed out in frames
155-156 and the left side of the frame is cutoff. 157 doesn't look quite
right either although it wasn't truncated like the previous two frames.
Was that the case with the original copies of the film or did that happen
during subsequent copying of the frames. Does anybody know the reason that
this happened.
The reason I noticed this is because I belief Oswald's first shot would
have struck the pavement around that time and I was looking for any
visible clue in frames 153-156. I haven't found any although the condition
of 155-156 would make that difficult if that is when the shot struck.
In a bit of bad luck or irony, Dave Powers, personal aide and friend of
JFK riding in the followup car halfback, was filming the motorcade, and
all appearances during the Texas trip, but ran out of film in his 8mm
camera just before reaching the intersection of Main and Houston streets.
He wanted to wait until reaching the Trade Mart before reloading the
camera. I wonder what he could have captured on film being just behind
the Presidential limo during the shooting?
Funny how he heard the shot from the grassy knoll, but did not hear any
shot from the AR-15 only 2 feet away from him.
I believe that's exactly how he heard it. That's how a rifle shot
would sound echoing in the Plaza and driving right past the knoll. He
said he "heard" the shot, not "see" the shot or who took it.
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-26 00:54:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Whenever I want to look at individual frames of the Z-film, I use
Costella's collection.
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
One thing I am curious about is that the color seems washed out in frames
155-156 and the left side of the frame is cutoff. 157 doesn't look quite
right either although it wasn't truncated like the previous two frames.
Was that the case with the original copies of the film or did that happen
during subsequent copying of the frames. Does anybody know the reason that
this happened.
The reason I noticed this is because I belief Oswald's first shot would
have struck the pavement around that time and I was looking for any
visible clue in frames 153-156. I haven't found any although the condition
of 155-156 would make that difficult if that is when the shot struck.
In a bit of bad luck or irony, Dave Powers, personal aide and friend of
JFK riding in the followup car halfback, was filming the motorcade, and
all appearances during the Texas trip, but ran out of film in his 8mm
camera just before reaching the intersection of Main and Houston streets.
He wanted to wait until reaching the Trade Mart before reloading the
camera. I wonder what he could have captured on film being just behind
the Presidential limo during the shooting?
Funny how he heard the shot from the grassy knoll, but did not hear any
shot from the AR-15 only 2 feet away from him.
I believe that's exactly how he heard it. That's how a rifle shot
would sound echoing in the Plaza and driving right past the knoll. He
said he "heard" the shot, not "see" the shot or who took it.
There you go with that echo nonsense again. So if there were 3 shots you
think witnesses heard 6 shots because of all the echoes?
Silly.
Jason Burke
2018-11-26 20:32:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Whenever I want to look at individual frames of the Z-film, I use
Costella's collection.
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
One thing I am curious about is that the color seems washed out in frames
155-156 and the left side of the frame is cutoff. 157 doesn't look quite
right either although it wasn't truncated like the previous two frames.
Was that the case with the original copies of the film or did that happen
during subsequent copying of the frames. Does anybody know the reason that
this happened.
The reason I noticed this is because I belief Oswald's first shot would
have struck the pavement around that time and I was looking for any
visible clue in frames 153-156. I haven't found any although the condition
of 155-156 would make that difficult if that is when the shot struck.
     In a bit of bad luck or irony, Dave Powers, personal aide and
friend of
JFK riding in the followup car halfback, was filming the motorcade, and
all appearances during the Texas trip, but ran out of film in his 8mm
camera just before reaching the intersection of Main and Houston streets.
He wanted to wait until reaching the Trade Mart before reloading the
camera.  I wonder what he could have captured on film being just behind
the Presidential limo during the shooting?
Funny how he heard the shot from the grassy knoll, but did not hear any
shot from the AR-15 only 2 feet away from him.
    I believe that's exactly how he heard it.  That's how a rifle shot
would sound echoing in the Plaza and driving right past the knoll.  He
said he "heard" the shot, not "see" the shot or who took it.
There you go with that echo nonsense again. So if there were 3 shots you
think witnesses heard 6 shots because of all the echoes?
Silly.
Still got nuffin after 55+ years, eh, Anthony Anthony?

Don't bother answering. We all know.
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-28 14:17:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jason Burke
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Whenever I want to look at individual frames of the Z-film, I use
Costella's collection.
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
One thing I am curious about is that the color seems washed out in frames
155-156 and the left side of the frame is cutoff. 157 doesn't look quite
right either although it wasn't truncated like the previous two frames.
Was that the case with the original copies of the film or did that happen
during subsequent copying of the frames. Does anybody know the reason that
this happened.
The reason I noticed this is because I belief Oswald's first shot would
have struck the pavement around that time and I was looking for any
visible clue in frames 153-156. I haven't found any although the condition
of 155-156 would make that difficult if that is when the shot struck.
     In a bit of bad luck or irony, Dave Powers, personal aide and
friend of
JFK riding in the followup car halfback, was filming the motorcade, and
all appearances during the Texas trip, but ran out of film in his 8mm
camera just before reaching the intersection of Main and Houston streets.
He wanted to wait until reaching the Trade Mart before reloading the
camera.  I wonder what he could have captured on film being just behind
the Presidential limo during the shooting?
Funny how he heard the shot from the grassy knoll, but did not hear any
shot from the AR-15 only 2 feet away from him.
    I believe that's exactly how he heard it.  That's how a rifle shot
would sound echoing in the Plaza and driving right past the knoll.  He
said he "heard" the shot, not "see" the shot or who took it.
There you go with that echo nonsense again. So if there were 3 shots
you think witnesses heard 6 shots because of all the echoes?
Silly.
Still got nuffin after 55+ years, eh, Anthony Anthony?
Don't bother answering. We all know.
Were you in a coma in 1978?
We won, you lost. Get over it.
Jason Burke
2018-11-29 17:24:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Jason Burke
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Whenever I want to look at individual frames of the Z-film, I use
Costella's collection.
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
One thing I am curious about is that the color seems washed out in frames
155-156 and the left side of the frame is cutoff. 157 doesn't look quite
right either although it wasn't truncated like the previous two frames.
Was that the case with the original copies of the film or did that happen
during subsequent copying of the frames. Does anybody know the reason that
this happened.
The reason I noticed this is because I belief Oswald's first shot would
have struck the pavement around that time and I was looking for any
visible clue in frames 153-156. I haven't found any although the condition
of 155-156 would make that difficult if that is when the shot struck.
     In a bit of bad luck or irony, Dave Powers, personal aide and
friend of
JFK riding in the followup car halfback, was filming the
motorcade, and
all appearances during the Texas trip, but ran out of film in his 8mm
camera just before reaching the intersection of Main and Houston streets.
He wanted to wait until reaching the Trade Mart before reloading the
camera.  I wonder what he could have captured on film being just behind
the Presidential limo during the shooting?
Funny how he heard the shot from the grassy knoll, but did not hear any
shot from the AR-15 only 2 feet away from him.
    I believe that's exactly how he heard it.  That's how a rifle shot
would sound echoing in the Plaza and driving right past the knoll.  He
said he "heard" the shot, not "see" the shot or who took it.
There you go with that echo nonsense again. So if there were 3 shots
you think witnesses heard 6 shots because of all the echoes?
Silly.
Still got nuffin after 55+ years, eh, Anthony Anthony?
Don't bother answering. We all know.
Were you in a coma in 1978?
We won, you lost. Get over it.
Sure you did, Anthony Anthony.
Sure you did.

The fact that you think you "won" based on last minute "evidence" the
HSCA found (which, of course, has been discredited six ways to Sunday,)
pretty much tells everyone just how clueless you are.
claviger
2018-11-29 22:25:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Were you in a coma in 1978?
We won, you lost. Get over it.
Good advice. Trump won, you lost. Get over it.
bigdog
2018-11-23 21:15:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Whenever I want to look at individual frames of the Z-film, I use
Costella's collection.
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
One thing I am curious about is that the color seems washed out in frames
155-156 and the left side of the frame is cutoff. 157 doesn't look quite
right either although it wasn't truncated like the previous two frames.
Was that the case with the original copies of the film or did that happen
during subsequent copying of the frames. Does anybody know the reason that
this happened.
The reason I noticed this is because I belief Oswald's first shot would
have struck the pavement around that time and I was looking for any
visible clue in frames 153-156. I haven't found any although the condition
of 155-156 would make that difficult if that is when the shot struck.
In a bit of bad luck or irony, Dave Powers, personal aide and friend of
JFK riding in the followup car halfback, was filming the motorcade, and
all appearances during the Texas trip, but ran out of film in his 8mm
camera just before reaching the intersection of Main and Houston streets.
He wanted to wait until reaching the Trade Mart before reloading the
camera. I wonder what he could have captured on film being just behind
the Presidential limo during the shooting?
Given how close the Queen Mary was to JFK's limo, it might not have had a
wide enough view to catch a cloud of debris kicked up by the missed shot.
Now if Max Holland is right, the first shot was fired before Zapruder
resumed filming. I've never bought into that although I cannot logically
rule it out. I think the circumstantial evidence leans more toward the
shot being fired shortly before Connally's head snap at Z164.
claviger
2018-11-24 20:20:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Whenever I want to look at individual frames of the Z-film, I use
Costella's collection.
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
One thing I am curious about is that the color seems washed out in frames
155-156 and the left side of the frame is cutoff. 157 doesn't look quite
right either although it wasn't truncated like the previous two frames.
Was that the case with the original copies of the film or did that happen
during subsequent copying of the frames. Does anybody know the reason that
this happened.
The reason I noticed this is because I belief Oswald's first shot would
have struck the pavement around that time and I was looking for any
visible clue in frames 153-156. I haven't found any although the condition
of 155-156 would make that difficult if that is when the shot struck.
In a bit of bad luck or irony, Dave Powers, personal aide and friend of
JFK riding in the followup car halfback, was filming the motorcade, and
all appearances during the Texas trip, but ran out of film in his 8mm
camera just before reaching the intersection of Main and Houston streets.
He wanted to wait until reaching the Trade Mart before reloading the
camera. I wonder what he could have captured on film being just behind
the Presidential limo during the shooting?
Given how close the Queen Mary was to JFK's limo, it might not have had a
wide enough view to catch a cloud of debris kicked up by the missed shot.
Now if Max Holland is right, the first shot was fired before Zapruder
resumed filming. I've never bought into that although I cannot logically
rule it out. I think the circumstantial evidence leans more toward the
shot being fired shortly before Connally's head snap at Z164.
Governor Connally :
We had just made the turn, well, when I heard what I thought
was a shot. I heard this noise which I immediately took to be
a rifle shot. I instinctively turned to my right because the sound
appeared to come from over my right shoulder, so I turned to
look back over my right shoulder, and I saw nothing unusual
except just people in the crowd,

We see him turn to the right around z160. Some researchers
estimate z190.
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-26 00:57:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Whenever I want to look at individual frames of the Z-film, I use
Costella's collection.
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
One thing I am curious about is that the color seems washed out in frames
155-156 and the left side of the frame is cutoff. 157 doesn't look quite
right either although it wasn't truncated like the previous two frames.
Was that the case with the original copies of the film or did that happen
during subsequent copying of the frames. Does anybody know the reason that
this happened.
The reason I noticed this is because I belief Oswald's first shot would
have struck the pavement around that time and I was looking for any
visible clue in frames 153-156. I haven't found any although the condition
of 155-156 would make that difficult if that is when the shot struck.
In a bit of bad luck or irony, Dave Powers, personal aide and friend of
JFK riding in the followup car halfback, was filming the motorcade, and
all appearances during the Texas trip, but ran out of film in his 8mm
camera just before reaching the intersection of Main and Houston streets.
He wanted to wait until reaching the Trade Mart before reloading the
camera. I wonder what he could have captured on film being just behind
the Presidential limo during the shooting?
Given how close the Queen Mary was to JFK's limo, it might not have had a
wide enough view to catch a cloud of debris kicked up by the missed shot.
Now if Max Holland is right, the first shot was fired before Zapruder
resumed filming. I've never bought into that although I cannot logically
rule it out. I think the circumstantial evidence leans more toward the
shot being fired shortly before Connally's head snap at Z164.
We had just made the turn, well, when I heard what I thought
was a shot. I heard this noise which I immediately took to be
a rifle shot. I instinctively turned to my right because the sound
appeared to come from over my right shoulder, so I turned to
look back over my right shoulder, and I saw nothing unusual
except just people in the crowd,
We see him turn to the right around z160. Some researchers
estimate z190.
So you think there was a miss at Z-160 or a SBT at Z-190?
Then you endorse the HSCA conclusions.
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-24 20:25:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Whenever I want to look at individual frames of the Z-film, I use
Costella's collection.
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
One thing I am curious about is that the color seems washed out in frames
155-156 and the left side of the frame is cutoff. 157 doesn't look quite
right either although it wasn't truncated like the previous two frames.
Was that the case with the original copies of the film or did that happen
during subsequent copying of the frames. Does anybody know the reason that
this happened.
The reason I noticed this is because I belief Oswald's first shot would
have struck the pavement around that time and I was looking for any
visible clue in frames 153-156. I haven't found any although the condition
of 155-156 would make that difficult if that is when the shot struck.
In a bit of bad luck or irony, Dave Powers, personal aide and friend of
JFK riding in the followup car halfback, was filming the motorcade, and
all appearances during the Texas trip, but ran out of film in his 8mm
camera just before reaching the intersection of Main and Houston streets.
He wanted to wait until reaching the Trade Mart before reloading the
camera. I wonder what he could have captured on film being just behind
the Presidential limo during the shooting?
Given how close the Queen Mary was to JFK's limo, it might not have had a
wide enough view to catch a cloud of debris kicked up by the missed shot.
If it was that close then there was not a clear shot to hit the
pavement. Why would anyone be aiming for the pavement?
Post by bigdog
Now if Max Holland is right, the first shot was fired before Zapruder
resumed filming. I've never bought into that although I cannot logically
Maybe, but that's awfully early and the angle would be rather difficult.
Post by bigdog
rule it out. I think the circumstantial evidence leans more toward the
shot being fired shortly before Connally's head snap at Z164.
Head snap? So you think the first shot hit Connally and caused his head
to snap? What causes your head to snap?
claviger
2018-11-24 22:24:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by bigdog
Given how close the Queen Mary was to JFK's limo, it might not have had a
wide enough view to catch a cloud of debris kicked up by the missed shot.
Now if Max Holland is right, the first shot was fired before Zapruder
resumed filming. I've never bought into that although I cannot logically
rule it out. I think the circumstantial evidence leans more toward the
shot being fired shortly before Connally's head snap at Z164.
Stavis Ellis, Motorcycle 145

"Just as I turned around, then the first shot went off. It hit back there.
I hadn't been able to see back where Chaney was because Curry
was there, but I could see where the shot came down into the south
side of the curb. It looked like it hit the concrete or grass there in just
a flash, and a bunch of junk flew up like a white or gray color dust or
smoke coming out of the concrete."

No More Silence: An Oral History of the Assassination
of President Kennedy
By Larry A. Sneed
Allan G. Johnson
2018-11-25 00:36:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Whenever I want to look at individual frames of the Z-film, I use
Costella's collection.
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
One thing I am curious about is that the color seems washed out in frames
155-156 and the left side of the frame is cutoff. 157 doesn't look quite
right either although it wasn't truncated like the previous two frames.
Was that the case with the original copies of the film or did that happen
during subsequent copying of the frames. Does anybody know the reason that
this happened.
The reason I noticed this is because I belief Oswald's first shot would
have struck the pavement around that time and I was looking for any
visible clue in frames 153-156. I haven't found any although the condition
of 155-156 would make that difficult if that is when the shot struck.
In a bit of bad luck or irony, Dave Powers, personal aide and friend of
JFK riding in the followup car halfback, was filming the motorcade, and
all appearances during the Texas trip, but ran out of film in his 8mm
camera just before reaching the intersection of Main and Houston streets.
He wanted to wait until reaching the Trade Mart before reloading the
camera. I wonder what he could have captured on film being just behind
the Presidential limo during the shooting?
Given how close the Queen Mary was to JFK's limo, it might not have had a
wide enough view to catch a cloud of debris kicked up by the missed shot.
Now if Max Holland is right, the first shot was fired before Zapruder
resumed filming. I've never bought into that although I cannot logically
rule it out. I think the circumstantial evidence leans more toward the
shot being fired shortly before Connally's head snap at Z164.
I respect your reasoning and open mind about the first shot and you
could very well be correct. I think you would consider other
possibilities depending on the real evidence though.

Consider the following: At the start of the Z film when the limo
first appears, 133, and before 164, Rosemary Willis is turning to look
over her shoulder. George Hickey started to turn to his left, after first
turning right as soon as he heard the first shot, to look over the side of
the car thinking a firecracker was thrown there (as per his testimony).
JFK was just bringing his hand down from brushing back his hair, which is
consistent with what Bonnie Ray Williams testified to when asked when he
heard the first shot. Connally said he first turned to his right after
hearing the first shot, then turned left, then turned back to his right
again to get a better look at Kennedy, and that is when he got hit. His
"sharp turn to the right" at 164 seen on film is his second time turning
in that direction. By that time he had already responded to hearing the
first shot.


What Rosemary, Hickey, Williams and Connally described in their accounts
of what they did at the time of the shooting can be verified on film and
leads me to believe the first shot occurred just before the Z film showed
the limo.
bigdog
2018-11-27 13:11:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Whenever I want to look at individual frames of the Z-film, I use
Costella's collection.
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
One thing I am curious about is that the color seems washed out in frames
155-156 and the left side of the frame is cutoff. 157 doesn't look quite
right either although it wasn't truncated like the previous two frames.
Was that the case with the original copies of the film or did that happen
during subsequent copying of the frames. Does anybody know the reason that
this happened.
The reason I noticed this is because I belief Oswald's first shot would
have struck the pavement around that time and I was looking for any
visible clue in frames 153-156. I haven't found any although the condition
of 155-156 would make that difficult if that is when the shot struck.
In a bit of bad luck or irony, Dave Powers, personal aide and friend of
JFK riding in the followup car halfback, was filming the motorcade, and
all appearances during the Texas trip, but ran out of film in his 8mm
camera just before reaching the intersection of Main and Houston streets.
He wanted to wait until reaching the Trade Mart before reloading the
camera. I wonder what he could have captured on film being just behind
the Presidential limo during the shooting?
Given how close the Queen Mary was to JFK's limo, it might not have had a
wide enough view to catch a cloud of debris kicked up by the missed shot.
Now if Max Holland is right, the first shot was fired before Zapruder
resumed filming. I've never bought into that although I cannot logically
rule it out. I think the circumstantial evidence leans more toward the
shot being fired shortly before Connally's head snap at Z164.
I respect your reasoning and open mind about the first shot and you
could very well be correct. I think you would consider other
possibilities depending on the real evidence though.
That's why I have always said we have no definitive evidence as to when
that first shot was fired. What we have are educated guesses. You have
yours. I have mine. I could be wrong. You could be wrong. We both could be
wrong.
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Consider the following: At the start of the Z film when the limo
first appears, 133, and before 164, Rosemary Willis is turning to look
over her shoulder. George Hickey started to turn to his left, after first
turning right as soon as he heard the first shot, to look over the side of
the car thinking a firecracker was thrown there (as per his testimony).
JFK was just bringing his hand down from brushing back his hair, which is
consistent with what Bonnie Ray Williams testified to when asked when he
heard the first shot. Connally said he first turned to his right after
hearing the first shot, then turned left, then turned back to his right
again to get a better look at Kennedy, and that is when he got hit. His
"sharp turn to the right" at 164 seen on film is his second time turning
in that direction. By that time he had already responded to hearing the
first shot.
The reason we have conflicting opinions is that evidence is not
definitive. It all comes down to the weight we give the various witnesses
and how we interpret what they have said. I interpret Connally as saying
he turned to his right upon hearing the first shot (Z164 in my judgement)
and that he was rotating back to his left when he felt the second shot hit
him. I forget the frame at which he started to rotate his trunk back to
his left but it was shortly before Z223 which is about when the single
bullet struck.
Post by Allan G. Johnson
What Rosemary, Hickey, Williams and Connally described in their accounts
of what they did at the time of the shooting can be verified on film and
leads me to believe the first shot occurred just before the Z film showed
the limo.
Like I said earlier. Either of us could be wrong. Either of us could be
right. Both of us could be wrong but both of us can't be right.
Allan G. Johnson
2018-11-29 05:46:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Whenever I want to look at individual frames of the Z-film, I use
Costella's collection.
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
One thing I am curious about is that the color seems washed out in frames
155-156 and the left side of the frame is cutoff. 157 doesn't look quite
right either although it wasn't truncated like the previous two frames.
Was that the case with the original copies of the film or did that happen
during subsequent copying of the frames. Does anybody know the reason that
this happened.
The reason I noticed this is because I belief Oswald's first shot would
have struck the pavement around that time and I was looking for any
visible clue in frames 153-156. I haven't found any although the condition
of 155-156 would make that difficult if that is when the shot struck.
In a bit of bad luck or irony, Dave Powers, personal aide and friend of
JFK riding in the followup car halfback, was filming the motorcade, and
all appearances during the Texas trip, but ran out of film in his 8mm
camera just before reaching the intersection of Main and Houston streets.
He wanted to wait until reaching the Trade Mart before reloading the
camera. I wonder what he could have captured on film being just behind
the Presidential limo during the shooting?
Given how close the Queen Mary was to JFK's limo, it might not have had a
wide enough view to catch a cloud of debris kicked up by the missed shot.
Now if Max Holland is right, the first shot was fired before Zapruder
resumed filming. I've never bought into that although I cannot logically
rule it out. I think the circumstantial evidence leans more toward the
shot being fired shortly before Connally's head snap at Z164.
I respect your reasoning and open mind about the first shot and you
could very well be correct. I think you would consider other
possibilities depending on the real evidence though.
That's why I have always said we have no definitive evidence as to when
that first shot was fired. What we have are educated guesses. You have
yours. I have mine. I could be wrong. You could be wrong. We both could be
wrong.
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Consider the following: At the start of the Z film when the limo
first appears, 133, and before 164, Rosemary Willis is turning to look
over her shoulder. George Hickey started to turn to his left, after first
turning right as soon as he heard the first shot, to look over the side of
the car thinking a firecracker was thrown there (as per his testimony).
JFK was just bringing his hand down from brushing back his hair, which is
consistent with what Bonnie Ray Williams testified to when asked when he
heard the first shot. Connally said he first turned to his right after
hearing the first shot, then turned left, then turned back to his right
again to get a better look at Kennedy, and that is when he got hit. His
"sharp turn to the right" at 164 seen on film is his second time turning
in that direction. By that time he had already responded to hearing the
first shot.
The reason we have conflicting opinions is that evidence is not
definitive. It all comes down to the weight we give the various witnesses
and how we interpret what they have said. I interpret Connally as saying
he turned to his right upon hearing the first shot (Z164 in my judgement)
and that he was rotating back to his left when he felt the second shot hit
him. I forget the frame at which he started to rotate his trunk back to
his left but it was shortly before Z223 which is about when the single
bullet struck.
Post by Allan G. Johnson
What Rosemary, Hickey, Williams and Connally described in their accounts
of what they did at the time of the shooting can be verified on film and
leads me to believe the first shot occurred just before the Z film showed
the limo.
Like I said earlier. Either of us could be wrong. Either of us could be
right. Both of us could be wrong but both of us can't be right.
I personally put more weight on Hickeys (SS agent in back seat of the
followup car) recollections of when the first shot occurred, not
Connally's. Connally changed his story somewhat, Hickey has never
wavered. You can see clearly at the beginning on film, at 133, exactly
how Hickey reacted, Connally is obscured by the windshield of the limo due
to the car being downrange from Zapruder and his camera until around 142.
It can be assumed they both heard the same shot at the same time.

Hickey said when he first heard the shot he turned to his right and
then turned to his left to see if a firecracker had been thrown at that
side of the car. At 133, when the limo first appears on film, he is in
the process of already turning to his left and leaning over the left side,
this AFTER hearing the first shot and turning to his right. This tells me
the first shot was taken just before 133. You can somewhat make out
Connally first turning to his right, then to his left even before 152.
By 164 he was in the process of completely turning around to his right
again to see JFK, although he didn't actually see him until after he felt
the bullet from the second shot and began to slump back toward Nellie.

Hickeys account can be verified on film and combined with what you see
from Rosemary Willis's reaction on film and what BRW said about JFK's hand
coming down from brushing his hair back is when he heard the first shot,
also seen on the film, and all before 152, you can better understand what
you see on film when observing Connally's reaction upon hearing the first
shot. He first looked to his right, then back to his left, briefly, then
SHARP turn back to his right. The sharp turn to his right was not his
first reaction upon hearing the first shot (if he heard the shot the same
time Hickey did, and why wouldn't he?).


We're only talking about one to two seconds of time here to determine
when the first shot was taken, from frames 133 to 164, to determine the
timing between the shots. If the first shot was taken at 130, the second
at around 221, that's 90+ frames, 5 seconds between shots. The third shot
at 313 is also 90+ frames apart, 5 seconds. Plenty of time to aim and get
the shots off.

It also helps verify the single bullet theory. The first shot had to
miss, this based on film proof of the scene and what the victims reaction
to it were, the second shot hitting both, the third hitting just JFK.
Anthony Marsh
2018-11-30 01:17:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Whenever I want to look at individual frames of the Z-film, I use
Costella's collection.
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
One thing I am curious about is that the color seems washed out in frames
155-156 and the left side of the frame is cutoff. 157 doesn't look quite
right either although it wasn't truncated like the previous two frames.
Was that the case with the original copies of the film or did that happen
during subsequent copying of the frames. Does anybody know the reason that
this happened.
The reason I noticed this is because I belief Oswald's first shot would
have struck the pavement around that time and I was looking for any
visible clue in frames 153-156. I haven't found any although the condition
of 155-156 would make that difficult if that is when the shot struck.
In a bit of bad luck or irony, Dave Powers, personal aide and friend of
JFK riding in the followup car halfback, was filming the motorcade, and
all appearances during the Texas trip, but ran out of film in his 8mm
camera just before reaching the intersection of Main and Houston streets.
He wanted to wait until reaching the Trade Mart before reloading the
camera. I wonder what he could have captured on film being just behind
the Presidential limo during the shooting?
Given how close the Queen Mary was to JFK's limo, it might not have had a
wide enough view to catch a cloud of debris kicked up by the missed shot.
Now if Max Holland is right, the first shot was fired before Zapruder
resumed filming. I've never bought into that although I cannot logically
rule it out. I think the circumstantial evidence leans more toward the
shot being fired shortly before Connally's head snap at Z164.
I respect your reasoning and open mind about the first shot and you
could very well be correct. I think you would consider other
possibilities depending on the real evidence though.
That's why I have always said we have no definitive evidence as to when
that first shot was fired. What we have are educated guesses. You have
yours. I have mine. I could be wrong. You could be wrong. We both could be
wrong.
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Consider the following: At the start of the Z film when the limo
first appears, 133, and before 164, Rosemary Willis is turning to look
over her shoulder. George Hickey started to turn to his left, after first
turning right as soon as he heard the first shot, to look over the side of
the car thinking a firecracker was thrown there (as per his testimony).
JFK was just bringing his hand down from brushing back his hair, which is
consistent with what Bonnie Ray Williams testified to when asked when he
heard the first shot. Connally said he first turned to his right after
hearing the first shot, then turned left, then turned back to his right
again to get a better look at Kennedy, and that is when he got hit. His
"sharp turn to the right" at 164 seen on film is his second time turning
in that direction. By that time he had already responded to hearing the
first shot.
The reason we have conflicting opinions is that evidence is not
definitive. It all comes down to the weight we give the various witnesses
and how we interpret what they have said. I interpret Connally as saying
he turned to his right upon hearing the first shot (Z164 in my judgement)
and that he was rotating back to his left when he felt the second shot hit
him. I forget the frame at which he started to rotate his trunk back to
his left but it was shortly before Z223 which is about when the single
bullet struck.
Post by Allan G. Johnson
What Rosemary, Hickey, Williams and Connally described in their accounts
of what they did at the time of the shooting can be verified on film and
leads me to believe the first shot occurred just before the Z film showed
the limo.
Like I said earlier. Either of us could be wrong. Either of us could be
right. Both of us could be wrong but both of us can't be right.
I personally put more weight on Hickeys (SS agent in back seat of the
followup car) recollections of when the first shot occurred, not
Only because you KNOW that Oswald did not shoot JFK in the head, but you
can't admit conspiracy. So you turn it into an accident. You're not
trying hard enough. Why don't you claim that Oswald shot JFK by
ACCIDENT? You could say that he was cleaning is rifle and it went off
accidentally. Or maybe he dropped it and it went off accidentally.
Isn't there some kook who claims that Oswald was shooting as a test of
SS readiness to protect the President. Something, anything. Anything to
avoid admitting simple facts. As Obama said, can we at least admit that
this is a chair?
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Connally's. Connally changed his story somewhat, Hickey has never
No. How do you thinnk Connally changed his story? YOU changed his story.
That is your favorite trick, rewriting testimony.
Post by Allan G. Johnson
wavered. You can see clearly at the beginning on film, at 133, exactly
how Hickey reacted, Connally is obscured by the windshield of the limo due
Can YOU see fraame 133? Why did you pick THAT frame as if there are no
reactions on any other frames?
Post by Allan G. Johnson
to the car being downrange from Zapruder and his camera until around 142.
It can be assumed they both heard the same shot at the same time.
Hickey said when he first heard the shot he turned to his right and
then turned to his left to see if a firecracker had been thrown at that
side of the car. At 133, when the limo first appears on film, he is in
Nothing wrong with that. Highly trained SS agents hear a car backfire or
a firecracker and think it is a gunshot. Didn't you see Clint Eastwood
in "In the Line of Fire" where he mistakes a balloon popping for a gun
shot and OVER reacts?
Post by Allan G. Johnson
the process of already turning to his left and leaning over the left side,
this AFTER hearing the first shot and turning to his right. This tells me
the first shot was taken just before 133. You can somewhat make out
Sure, how many seconds?
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Connally first turning to his right, then to his left even before 152.
By 164 he was in the process of completely turning around to his right
again to see JFK, although he didn't actually see him until after he felt
the bullet from the second shot and began to slump back toward Nellie.
We've been over this before. I wrote a whole article about it.
Don't be misled by the Alterationists.
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Hickeys account can be verified on film and combined with what you see
from Rosemary Willis's reaction on film and what BRW said about JFK's hand
coming down from brushing his hair back is when he heard the first shot,
He did that during the turn onto Houston Street. You need to look at all
the photographic evidence, not cherrypick.
Post by Allan G. Johnson
also seen on the film, and all before 152, you can better understand what
you see on film when observing Connally's reaction upon hearing the first
shot. He first looked to his right, then back to his left, briefly, then
SHARP turn back to his right. The sharp turn to his right was not his
first reaction upon hearing the first shot (if he heard the shot the same
time Hickey did, and why wouldn't he?).
Junk.
Post by Allan G. Johnson
We're only talking about one to two seconds of time here to determine
when the first shot was taken, from frames 133 to 164, to determine the
Clint Hill blamed himself for not reacting in less than a second.
Post by Allan G. Johnson
timing between the shots. If the first shot was taken at 130, the second
at around 221, that's 90+ frames, 5 seconds between shots. The third shot
at 313 is also 90+ frames apart, 5 seconds. Plenty of time to aim and get
the shots off.
I like that, but then where is your SBT?
Post by Allan G. Johnson
It also helps verify the single bullet theory. The first shot had to
miss, this based on film proof of the scene and what the victims reaction
to it were, the second shot hitting both, the third hitting just JFK.
I wouldn't say HAD TO and neither did the WC. You are supposed to be a
die-hard WC defender so you are not allowed to speculate.
That would make you a conspiracy kook.
Allan G. Johnson
2018-12-01 00:48:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Whenever I want to look at individual frames of the Z-film, I use
Costella's collection.
http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
One thing I am curious about is that the color seems washed out in frames
155-156 and the left side of the frame is cutoff. 157 doesn't look quite
right either although it wasn't truncated like the previous two frames.
Was that the case with the original copies of the film or did that happen
during subsequent copying of the frames. Does anybody know the reason that
this happened.
The reason I noticed this is because I belief Oswald's first shot would
have struck the pavement around that time and I was looking for any
visible clue in frames 153-156. I haven't found any although the condition
of 155-156 would make that difficult if that is when the shot struck.
In a bit of bad luck or irony, Dave Powers, personal aide and friend of
JFK riding in the followup car halfback, was filming the motorcade, and
all appearances during the Texas trip, but ran out of film in his 8mm
camera just before reaching the intersection of Main and Houston streets.
He wanted to wait until reaching the Trade Mart before reloading the
camera. I wonder what he could have captured on film being just behind
the Presidential limo during the shooting?
Given how close the Queen Mary was to JFK's limo, it might not have had a
wide enough view to catch a cloud of debris kicked up by the missed shot.
Now if Max Holland is right, the first shot was fired before Zapruder
resumed filming. I've never bought into that although I cannot logically
rule it out. I think the circumstantial evidence leans more toward the
shot being fired shortly before Connally's head snap at Z164.
I respect your reasoning and open mind about the first shot and you
could very well be correct. I think you would consider other
possibilities depending on the real evidence though.
That's why I have always said we have no definitive evidence as to when
that first shot was fired. What we have are educated guesses. You have
yours. I have mine. I could be wrong. You could be wrong. We both could be
wrong.
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Consider the following: At the start of the Z film when the limo
first appears, 133, and before 164, Rosemary Willis is turning to look
over her shoulder. George Hickey started to turn to his left, after first
turning right as soon as he heard the first shot, to look over the side of
the car thinking a firecracker was thrown there (as per his testimony).
JFK was just bringing his hand down from brushing back his hair, which is
consistent with what Bonnie Ray Williams testified to when asked when he
heard the first shot. Connally said he first turned to his right after
hearing the first shot, then turned left, then turned back to his right
again to get a better look at Kennedy, and that is when he got hit. His
"sharp turn to the right" at 164 seen on film is his second time turning
in that direction. By that time he had already responded to hearing the
first shot.
The reason we have conflicting opinions is that evidence is not
definitive. It all comes down to the weight we give the various witnesses
and how we interpret what they have said. I interpret Connally as saying
he turned to his right upon hearing the first shot (Z164 in my judgement)
and that he was rotating back to his left when he felt the second shot hit
him. I forget the frame at which he started to rotate his trunk back to
his left but it was shortly before Z223 which is about when the single
bullet struck.
Post by Allan G. Johnson
What Rosemary, Hickey, Williams and Connally described in their accounts
of what they did at the time of the shooting can be verified on film and
leads me to believe the first shot occurred just before the Z film showed
the limo.
Like I said earlier. Either of us could be wrong. Either of us could be
right. Both of us could be wrong but both of us can't be right.
I personally put more weight on Hickeys (SS agent in back seat of the
followup car) recollections of when the first shot occurred, not
Only because you KNOW that Oswald did not shoot JFK in the head, but you
can't admit conspiracy. So you turn it into an accident. You're not
trying hard enough. Why don't you claim that Oswald shot JFK by
ACCIDENT? You could say that he was cleaning is rifle and it went off
accidentally. Or maybe he dropped it and it went off accidentally.
Isn't there some kook who claims that Oswald was shooting as a test of
SS readiness to protect the President. Something, anything. Anything to
avoid admitting simple facts. As Obama said, can we at least admit that
this is a chair?
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Connally's. Connally changed his story somewhat, Hickey has never
No. How do you thinnk Connally changed his story? YOU changed his story.
That is your favorite trick, rewriting testimony.
Post by Allan G. Johnson
wavered. You can see clearly at the beginning on film, at 133, exactly
how Hickey reacted, Connally is obscured by the windshield of the limo due
Can YOU see fraame 133? Why did you pick THAT frame as if there are no
reactions on any other frames?
Post by Allan G. Johnson
to the car being downrange from Zapruder and his camera until around 142.
It can be assumed they both heard the same shot at the same time.
Hickey said when he first heard the shot he turned to his right and
then turned to his left to see if a firecracker had been thrown at that
side of the car. At 133, when the limo first appears on film, he is in
Nothing wrong with that. Highly trained SS agents hear a car backfire or
a firecracker and think it is a gunshot. Didn't you see Clint Eastwood
in "In the Line of Fire" where he mistakes a balloon popping for a gun
shot and OVER reacts?
Post by Allan G. Johnson
the process of already turning to his left and leaning over the left side,
this AFTER hearing the first shot and turning to his right. This tells me
the first shot was taken just before 133. You can somewhat make out
Sure, how many seconds?
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Connally first turning to his right, then to his left even before 152.
By 164 he was in the process of completely turning around to his right
again to see JFK, although he didn't actually see him until after he felt
the bullet from the second shot and began to slump back toward Nellie.
We've been over this before. I wrote a whole article about it.
Don't be misled by the Alterationists.
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Hickeys account can be verified on film and combined with what you see
from Rosemary Willis's reaction on film and what BRW said about JFK's hand
coming down from brushing his hair back is when he heard the first shot,
He did that during the turn onto Houston Street. You need to look at all
the photographic evidence, not cherrypick.
Post by Allan G. Johnson
also seen on the film, and all before 152, you can better understand what
you see on film when observing Connally's reaction upon hearing the first
shot. He first looked to his right, then back to his left, briefly, then
SHARP turn back to his right. The sharp turn to his right was not his
first reaction upon hearing the first shot (if he heard the shot the same
time Hickey did, and why wouldn't he?).
Junk.
Post by Allan G. Johnson
We're only talking about one to two seconds of time here to determine
when the first shot was taken, from frames 133 to 164, to determine the
Clint Hill blamed himself for not reacting in less than a second.
Post by Allan G. Johnson
timing between the shots. If the first shot was taken at 130, the second
at around 221, that's 90+ frames, 5 seconds between shots. The third shot
at 313 is also 90+ frames apart, 5 seconds. Plenty of time to aim and get
the shots off.
I like that, but then where is your SBT?
Post by Allan G. Johnson
It also helps verify the single bullet theory. The first shot had to
miss, this based on film proof of the scene and what the victims reaction
to it were, the second shot hitting both, the third hitting just JFK.
I wouldn't say HAD TO and neither did the WC. You are supposed to be a
die-hard WC defender so you are not allowed to speculate.
That would make you a conspiracy kook.
WTH are you talking about? That's just a lame attempt to misrepresent
and divert attention from what is being presented. Don't claim to know
who you are responding to, you don't know. I'm not a die hard anything,
but I can detect BS with the best of them.

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