Discussion:
Did Zapruder Believe the Shots Came From Behind Him?
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Mark
2018-12-01 00:27:19 UTC
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A familiar refrain from CTs on here and in their writings is that Abraham
Zapruder said the shots came behind his location on the pedestal. It lends
substantial credence to a GK shooter and thus a two-gunmen conspiracy. But
that's not really what he said. From his Warren Commission testimony:

Mr. Liebeler - As you were standing on this abutment facing Elm Street,
you say the police ran over behind the concrete structure behind you and
down the railroad track behind that, is that right?

Mr. Zapruder - After the shots?

Mr. Liebeler - Yes.

Mr. Zapruder - Yes--after the shots--yes, some of them were motorcycle
cops--I guess they left their motorcycles running and they were running
right behind me, of course in the line of the shooting. I guess they
thought it came from right behind me.

Mr. Liebeler - Did you have any impression as to the direction from which
these shots came?

Mr. Zapruder - No, I also thought it came from back of me. Of course, you
can't tell when something is in line it could come from anywhere, but
being I was here and he was hit right in the head--I saw it right around
here, so it looked like it came from here and it could come from there.

Mr. Liebeler - All right, as you stood here on the abutment and looked
down into Elm Street, you saw the President hit on the right side of the
head and you thought perhaps the shots had come from behind you?

Mr. Zapruder - Well, yes.

Mr. Liebeler - From the direction behind you?

Mr. Zapruder - Yes, actually--I couldn't say what I thought at the moment,
where they came from--after the impact of the tragedy was really what I
saw and I started--yelling--"they've killed him"--I assumed that they came
from there, because as the police started running back of me, it looked
like it came from the back of me.

Mr. Liebeler - But you didn't form any opinion at that time as to what
direction the shots did come from actually?

Mr. Zapruder - No.

Mr. Liebeler - And you indicated that they could have come also from
behind or from any other direction except perhaps from the left, because
they could have been from behind or even from the front.

Mr. Zapruder - Well, it could have been--in other words if you have a
point--you could hit a point from any place, as far as that's concerned.
I have no way of determining what direction the bullet was going.

Mr. Liebeler - Did you form any opinion about the direction from which the
shots came by sound, or were you just upset by the thing you had seen?

Mr. Zapruder - No, there was too much reverberation. There was an echo
which gave me sound all over. In other words that square is kind of--it
had sound all over.

******

IMO, Zapruder did not know where the shots were fired from. He was
heavily influenced by the law enforcement officers running up the GK
towards the RR tracks behind him. And by the spectators who will
invariably run after the cops because they surely know something they, the
spectators, don't, when actually the police are just making guesses
too.

Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney: "We then ran over into Dealey Plaza, crossed
Elm, jumped over the wall of the embankment on what's now called the
grassy knoll and headed toward the railroad yards. At that time, it seemed
to have been the most logical place to begin looking unless you had
actually known from where the shots originated, which I didn't." (Larry
Sneed, NO MORE SILENCE, p. 225)

DPD Sgt. David Harkness: "I tried to find someone...an escape route. I
knew we had people stationed all around the place, so I got on my motor
and went down to Industrial because there was an open area back behind the
railroad to see if I could see anything or anybody trying to escape. After
I made a quick turn down there and could see nothing, I came back to the
area and started searching behind the railroad yards, not because I
thought shots had come from there, but because we were looking for an
unknown, somebody running, trying to get away." (Sneed, p. 206)

Charles Brehm: "After I hit the ground and smothered the boy, it was all
over. The people were running helter-skelter here and there. They were
running up to the top of that hill it seemed to me in almost sheep-like
fashion following somebody running up those steps. There was a policeman
who ran up those steps also. Apparently people thought that he was chasing
something, which he certainly wasn't. There were no shots from area, but
some of the people followed him anyway." (Sneed, p. 62)

Bill Newman: "We didn't run up towards the grassy knoll like the rest of
the people. We started walking up there when they stopped us. A lot of
people did run up the grassy knoll in that area afterwards, but we were
not as anxious as most of the crowd to try to find someone. I don't know
why they were running up that way. Maybe the Secret Service men or whoever
initiated it, but I just think it was more or less a crowd reaction. I
doubt if the people saw or heard anything up there." (Sneed, p. 97)

And there is Postal Inspector Harry Holmes who was watching with 7X50
binoculars from the Terminal Office Building: "I kept the binoculars
around to see if anybody left the area, especially the parking area and
the railroad tracks where a guy would likely try to escape. I remember
also a big chain link fence in back of the School Book Depository. I also
noticed a lot of people lined up on the Triple Underpass, but I never saw
anybody in a hurry to get away as if they were trying to escape, and I
watched the area with those high powered binoculars the whole time."
(Sneed, p. 353)

Mark
Anthony Marsh
2018-12-02 04:35:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mark
A familiar refrain from CTs on here and in their writings is that Abraham
Zapruder said the shots came behind his location on the pedestal. It lends
substantial credence to a GK shooter and thus a two-gunmen conspiracy. But
Mr. Liebeler - As you were standing on this abutment facing Elm Street,
you say the police ran over behind the concrete structure behind you and
down the railroad track behind that, is that right?
Mr. Zapruder - After the shots?
Mr. Liebeler - Yes.
Mr. Zapruder - Yes--after the shots--yes, some of them were motorcycle
cops--I guess they left their motorcycles running and they were running
right behind me, of course in the line of the shooting. I guess they
thought it came from right behind me.
Mr. Liebeler - Did you have any impression as to the direction from which
these shots came?
Mr. Zapruder - No, I also thought it came from back of me. Of course, you
can't tell when something is in line it could come from anywhere, but
being I was here and he was hit right in the head--I saw it right around
here, so it looked like it came from here and it could come from there.
Mr. Liebeler - All right, as you stood here on the abutment and looked
down into Elm Street, you saw the President hit on the right side of the
head and you thought perhaps the shots had come from behind you?
Mr. Zapruder - Well, yes.
Mr. Liebeler - From the direction behind you?
Mr. Zapruder - Yes, actually--I couldn't say what I thought at the moment,
where they came from--after the impact of the tragedy was really what I
saw and I started--yelling--"they've killed him"--I assumed that they came
from there, because as the police started running back of me, it looked
like it came from the back of me.
Mr. Liebeler - But you didn't form any opinion at that time as to what
direction the shots did come from actually?
Mr. Zapruder - No.
Mr. Liebeler - And you indicated that they could have come also from
behind or from any other direction except perhaps from the left, because
they could have been from behind or even from the front.
Mr. Zapruder - Well, it could have been--in other words if you have a
point--you could hit a point from any place, as far as that's concerned.
I have no way of determining what direction the bullet was going.
Mr. Liebeler - Did you form any opinion about the direction from which the
shots came by sound, or were you just upset by the thing you had seen?
Mr. Zapruder - No, there was too much reverberation. There was an echo
which gave me sound all over. In other words that square is kind of--it
had sound all over.
As usual for a supporter of the cover-up you fail to follow Loftus's
advice and look for the EARLIEST statements.

In fact, Zapruder that same day told a SS agent that he thought the
position of the assassin was behind him.

CD 87

https://www.history-matters.com/analysis/witness/witnessMap/Zapruder.htm

So, do you think the TSBD was behind Zapruder?
You don't even have a map of Dealey Plaza.
Post by Mark
******
IMO, Zapruder did not know where the shots were fired from. He was
heavily influenced by the law enforcement officers running up the GK
towards the RR tracks behind him. And by the spectators who will
invariably run after the cops because they surely know something they, the
spectators, don't, when actually the police are just making guesses
too.
Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney: "We then ran over into Dealey Plaza, crossed
Elm, jumped over the wall of the embankment on what's now called the
grassy knoll and headed toward the railroad yards. At that time, it seemed
to have been the most logical place to begin looking unless you had
actually known from where the shots originated, which I didn't." (Larry
Sneed, NO MORE SILENCE, p. 225)
DPD Sgt. David Harkness: "I tried to find someone...an escape route. I
knew we had people stationed all around the place, so I got on my motor
and went down to Industrial because there was an open area back behind the
railroad to see if I could see anything or anybody trying to escape. After
I made a quick turn down there and could see nothing, I came back to the
area and started searching behind the railroad yards, not because I
thought shots had come from there, but because we were looking for an
unknown, somebody running, trying to get away." (Sneed, p. 206)
Charles Brehm: "After I hit the ground and smothered the boy, it was all
over. The people were running helter-skelter here and there. They were
running up to the top of that hill it seemed to me in almost sheep-like
fashion following somebody running up those steps. There was a policeman
who ran up those steps also. Apparently people thought that he was chasing
something, which he certainly wasn't. There were no shots from area, but
some of the people followed him anyway." (Sneed, p. 62)
Bill Newman: "We didn't run up towards the grassy knoll like the rest of
the people. We started walking up there when they stopped us. A lot of
people did run up the grassy knoll in that area afterwards, but we were
not as anxious as most of the crowd to try to find someone. I don't know
why they were running up that way. Maybe the Secret Service men or whoever
initiated it, but I just think it was more or less a crowd reaction. I
doubt if the people saw or heard anything up there." (Sneed, p. 97)
And there is Postal Inspector Harry Holmes who was watching with 7X50
binoculars from the Terminal Office Building: "I kept the binoculars
around to see if anybody left the area, especially the parking area and
the railroad tracks where a guy would likely try to escape. I remember
also a big chain link fence in back of the School Book Depository. I also
noticed a lot of people lined up on the Triple Underpass, but I never saw
anybody in a hurry to get away as if they were trying to escape, and I
watched the area with those high powered binoculars the whole time."
(Sneed, p. 353)
Mark
InsideSparta
2018-12-03 03:15:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Mark
A familiar refrain from CTs on here and in their writings is that Abraham
Zapruder said the shots came behind his location on the pedestal. It lends
substantial credence to a GK shooter and thus a two-gunmen conspiracy. But
Mr. Liebeler - As you were standing on this abutment facing Elm Street,
you say the police ran over behind the concrete structure behind you and
down the railroad track behind that, is that right?
Mr. Zapruder - After the shots?
Mr. Liebeler - Yes.
Mr. Zapruder - Yes--after the shots--yes, some of them were motorcycle
cops--I guess they left their motorcycles running and they were running
right behind me, of course in the line of the shooting. I guess they
thought it came from right behind me.
Mr. Liebeler - Did you have any impression as to the direction from which
these shots came?
Mr. Zapruder - No, I also thought it came from back of me. Of course, you
can't tell when something is in line it could come from anywhere, but
being I was here and he was hit right in the head--I saw it right around
here, so it looked like it came from here and it could come from there.
Mr. Liebeler - All right, as you stood here on the abutment and looked
down into Elm Street, you saw the President hit on the right side of the
head and you thought perhaps the shots had come from behind you?
Mr. Zapruder - Well, yes.
Mr. Liebeler - From the direction behind you?
Mr. Zapruder - Yes, actually--I couldn't say what I thought at the moment,
where they came from--after the impact of the tragedy was really what I
saw and I started--yelling--"they've killed him"--I assumed that they came
from there, because as the police started running back of me, it looked
like it came from the back of me.
Mr. Liebeler - But you didn't form any opinion at that time as to what
direction the shots did come from actually?
Mr. Zapruder - No.
Mr. Liebeler - And you indicated that they could have come also from
behind or from any other direction except perhaps from the left, because
they could have been from behind or even from the front.
Mr. Zapruder - Well, it could have been--in other words if you have a
point--you could hit a point from any place, as far as that's concerned.
I have no way of determining what direction the bullet was going.
Mr. Liebeler - Did you form any opinion about the direction from which the
shots came by sound, or were you just upset by the thing you had seen?
Mr. Zapruder - No, there was too much reverberation. There was an echo
which gave me sound all over. In other words that square is kind of--it
had sound all over.
As usual for a supporter of the cover-up you fail to follow Loftus's
advice and look for the EARLIEST statements.
In fact, Zapruder that same day told a SS agent that he thought the
position of the assassin was behind him.
CD 87
https://www.history-matters.com/analysis/witness/witnessMap/Zapruder.htm
So, do you think the TSBD was behind Zapruder?
You don't even have a map of Dealey Plaza.
So, you think the position of your mystery shooter, along the stockade
fence, was behind Zapruder? You don't even have a map of Dealey Plaza.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Mark
******
IMO, Zapruder did not know where the shots were fired from. He was
heavily influenced by the law enforcement officers running up the GK
towards the RR tracks behind him. And by the spectators who will
invariably run after the cops because they surely know something they, the
spectators, don't, when actually the police are just making guesses
too.
Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney: "We then ran over into Dealey Plaza, crossed
Elm, jumped over the wall of the embankment on what's now called the
grassy knoll and headed toward the railroad yards. At that time, it seemed
to have been the most logical place to begin looking unless you had
actually known from where the shots originated, which I didn't." (Larry
Sneed, NO MORE SILENCE, p. 225)
DPD Sgt. David Harkness: "I tried to find someone...an escape route. I
knew we had people stationed all around the place, so I got on my motor
and went down to Industrial because there was an open area back behind the
railroad to see if I could see anything or anybody trying to escape. After
I made a quick turn down there and could see nothing, I came back to the
area and started searching behind the railroad yards, not because I
thought shots had come from there, but because we were looking for an
unknown, somebody running, trying to get away." (Sneed, p. 206)
Charles Brehm: "After I hit the ground and smothered the boy, it was all
over. The people were running helter-skelter here and there. They were
running up to the top of that hill it seemed to me in almost sheep-like
fashion following somebody running up those steps. There was a policeman
who ran up those steps also. Apparently people thought that he was chasing
something, which he certainly wasn't. There were no shots from area, but
some of the people followed him anyway." (Sneed, p. 62)
Bill Newman: "We didn't run up towards the grassy knoll like the rest of
the people. We started walking up there when they stopped us. A lot of
people did run up the grassy knoll in that area afterwards, but we were
not as anxious as most of the crowd to try to find someone. I don't know
why they were running up that way. Maybe the Secret Service men or whoever
initiated it, but I just think it was more or less a crowd reaction. I
doubt if the people saw or heard anything up there." (Sneed, p. 97)
And there is Postal Inspector Harry Holmes who was watching with 7X50
binoculars from the Terminal Office Building: "I kept the binoculars
around to see if anybody left the area, especially the parking area and
the railroad tracks where a guy would likely try to escape. I remember
also a big chain link fence in back of the School Book Depository. I also
noticed a lot of people lined up on the Triple Underpass, but I never saw
anybody in a hurry to get away as if they were trying to escape, and I
watched the area with those high powered binoculars the whole time."
(Sneed, p. 353)
Mark
Anthony Marsh
2018-12-04 15:46:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by InsideSparta
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Mark
A familiar refrain from CTs on here and in their writings is that Abraham
Zapruder said the shots came behind his location on the pedestal. It lends
substantial credence to a GK shooter and thus a two-gunmen conspiracy. But
Mr. Liebeler - As you were standing on this abutment facing Elm Street,
you say the police ran over behind the concrete structure behind you and
down the railroad track behind that, is that right?
Mr. Zapruder - After the shots?
Mr. Liebeler - Yes.
Mr. Zapruder - Yes--after the shots--yes, some of them were motorcycle
cops--I guess they left their motorcycles running and they were running
right behind me, of course in the line of the shooting. I guess they
thought it came from right behind me.
Mr. Liebeler - Did you have any impression as to the direction from which
these shots came?
Mr. Zapruder - No, I also thought it came from back of me. Of course, you
can't tell when something is in line it could come from anywhere, but
being I was here and he was hit right in the head--I saw it right around
here, so it looked like it came from here and it could come from there.
Mr. Liebeler - All right, as you stood here on the abutment and looked
down into Elm Street, you saw the President hit on the right side of the
head and you thought perhaps the shots had come from behind you?
Mr. Zapruder - Well, yes.
Mr. Liebeler - From the direction behind you?
Mr. Zapruder - Yes, actually--I couldn't say what I thought at the moment,
where they came from--after the impact of the tragedy was really what I
saw and I started--yelling--"they've killed him"--I assumed that they came
from there, because as the police started running back of me, it looked
like it came from the back of me.
Mr. Liebeler - But you didn't form any opinion at that time as to what
direction the shots did come from actually?
Mr. Zapruder - No.
Mr. Liebeler - And you indicated that they could have come also from
behind or from any other direction except perhaps from the left, because
they could have been from behind or even from the front.
Mr. Zapruder - Well, it could have been--in other words if you have a
point--you could hit a point from any place, as far as that's concerned.
I have no way of determining what direction the bullet was going.
Mr. Liebeler - Did you form any opinion about the direction from which the
shots came by sound, or were you just upset by the thing you had seen?
Mr. Zapruder - No, there was too much reverberation. There was an echo
which gave me sound all over. In other words that square is kind of--it
had sound all over.
As usual for a supporter of the cover-up you fail to follow Loftus's
advice and look for the EARLIEST statements.
In fact, Zapruder that same day told a SS agent that he thought the
position of the assassin was behind him.
CD 87
https://www.history-matters.com/analysis/witness/witnessMap/Zapruder.htm
So, do you think the TSBD was behind Zapruder?
You don't even have a map of Dealey Plaza.
So, you think the position of your mystery shooter, along the stockade
fence, was behind Zapruder? You don't even have a map of Dealey Plaza.
You are speaking to the guy who corrected the HSCA map.
I have the best map. YOU have nothing.
Post by InsideSparta
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Mark
******
IMO, Zapruder did not know where the shots were fired from. He was
heavily influenced by the law enforcement officers running up the GK
towards the RR tracks behind him. And by the spectators who will
invariably run after the cops because they surely know something they, the
spectators, don't, when actually the police are just making guesses
too.
Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney: "We then ran over into Dealey Plaza, crossed
Elm, jumped over the wall of the embankment on what's now called the
grassy knoll and headed toward the railroad yards. At that time, it seemed
to have been the most logical place to begin looking unless you had
actually known from where the shots originated, which I didn't." (Larry
Sneed, NO MORE SILENCE, p. 225)
DPD Sgt. David Harkness: "I tried to find someone...an escape route. I
knew we had people stationed all around the place, so I got on my motor
and went down to Industrial because there was an open area back behind the
railroad to see if I could see anything or anybody trying to escape. After
I made a quick turn down there and could see nothing, I came back to the
area and started searching behind the railroad yards, not because I
thought shots had come from there, but because we were looking for an
unknown, somebody running, trying to get away." (Sneed, p. 206)
Charles Brehm: "After I hit the ground and smothered the boy, it was all
over. The people were running helter-skelter here and there. They were
running up to the top of that hill it seemed to me in almost sheep-like
fashion following somebody running up those steps. There was a policeman
who ran up those steps also. Apparently people thought that he was chasing
something, which he certainly wasn't. There were no shots from area, but
some of the people followed him anyway." (Sneed, p. 62)
Bill Newman: "We didn't run up towards the grassy knoll like the rest of
the people. We started walking up there when they stopped us. A lot of
people did run up the grassy knoll in that area afterwards, but we were
not as anxious as most of the crowd to try to find someone. I don't know
why they were running up that way. Maybe the Secret Service men or whoever
initiated it, but I just think it was more or less a crowd reaction. I
doubt if the people saw or heard anything up there." (Sneed, p. 97)
It was the police who initiated it. Two policemen rushed up the grassy
knoll and the Chief of Police ordered all his men to go up to the
overpass.
Post by InsideSparta
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Mark
And there is Postal Inspector Harry Holmes who was watching with 7X50
binoculars from the Terminal Office Building: "I kept the binoculars
around to see if anybody left the area, especially the parking area and
the railroad tracks where a guy would likely try to escape. I remember
also a big chain link fence in back of the School Book Depository. I also
noticed a lot of people lined up on the Triple Underpass, but I never saw
anybody in a hurry to get away as if they were trying to escape, and I
watched the area with those high powered binoculars the whole time."
(Sneed, p. 353)
Mark
Steve M. Galbraith
2018-12-04 01:34:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Mark
A familiar refrain from CTs on here and in their writings is that Abraham
Zapruder said the shots came behind his location on the pedestal. It lends
substantial credence to a GK shooter and thus a two-gunmen conspiracy. But
Mr. Liebeler - As you were standing on this abutment facing Elm Street,
you say the police ran over behind the concrete structure behind you and
down the railroad track behind that, is that right?
Mr. Zapruder - After the shots?
Mr. Liebeler - Yes.
Mr. Zapruder - Yes--after the shots--yes, some of them were motorcycle
cops--I guess they left their motorcycles running and they were running
right behind me, of course in the line of the shooting. I guess they
thought it came from right behind me.
Mr. Liebeler - Did you have any impression as to the direction from which
these shots came?
Mr. Zapruder - No, I also thought it came from back of me. Of course, you
can't tell when something is in line it could come from anywhere, but
being I was here and he was hit right in the head--I saw it right around
here, so it looked like it came from here and it could come from there.
Mr. Liebeler - All right, as you stood here on the abutment and looked
down into Elm Street, you saw the President hit on the right side of the
head and you thought perhaps the shots had come from behind you?
Mr. Zapruder - Well, yes.
Mr. Liebeler - From the direction behind you?
Mr. Zapruder - Yes, actually--I couldn't say what I thought at the moment,
where they came from--after the impact of the tragedy was really what I
saw and I started--yelling--"they've killed him"--I assumed that they came
from there, because as the police started running back of me, it looked
like it came from the back of me.
Mr. Liebeler - But you didn't form any opinion at that time as to what
direction the shots did come from actually?
Mr. Zapruder - No.
Mr. Liebeler - And you indicated that they could have come also from
behind or from any other direction except perhaps from the left, because
they could have been from behind or even from the front.
Mr. Zapruder - Well, it could have been--in other words if you have a
point--you could hit a point from any place, as far as that's concerned.
I have no way of determining what direction the bullet was going.
Mr. Liebeler - Did you form any opinion about the direction from which the
shots came by sound, or were you just upset by the thing you had seen?
Mr. Zapruder - No, there was too much reverberation. There was an echo
which gave me sound all over. In other words that square is kind of--it
had sound all over.
As usual for a supporter of the cover-up you fail to follow Loftus's
advice and look for the EARLIEST statements.
In fact, Zapruder that same day told a SS agent that he thought the
position of the assassin was behind him.
CD 87
https://www.history-matters.com/analysis/witness/witnessMap/Zapruder.htm
So, do you think the TSBD was behind Zapruder?
You don't even have a map of Dealey Plaza.
Post by Mark
******
IMO, Zapruder did not know where the shots were fired from. He was
heavily influenced by the law enforcement officers running up the GK
towards the RR tracks behind him. And by the spectators who will
invariably run after the cops because they surely know something they, the
spectators, don't, when actually the police are just making guesses
too.
Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney: "We then ran over into Dealey Plaza, crossed
Elm, jumped over the wall of the embankment on what's now called the
grassy knoll and headed toward the railroad yards. At that time, it seemed
to have been the most logical place to begin looking unless you had
actually known from where the shots originated, which I didn't." (Larry
Sneed, NO MORE SILENCE, p. 225)
DPD Sgt. David Harkness: "I tried to find someone...an escape route. I
knew we had people stationed all around the place, so I got on my motor
and went down to Industrial because there was an open area back behind the
railroad to see if I could see anything or anybody trying to escape. After
I made a quick turn down there and could see nothing, I came back to the
area and started searching behind the railroad yards, not because I
thought shots had come from there, but because we were looking for an
unknown, somebody running, trying to get away." (Sneed, p. 206)
Charles Brehm: "After I hit the ground and smothered the boy, it was all
over. The people were running helter-skelter here and there. They were
running up to the top of that hill it seemed to me in almost sheep-like
fashion following somebody running up those steps. There was a policeman
who ran up those steps also. Apparently people thought that he was chasing
something, which he certainly wasn't. There were no shots from area, but
some of the people followed him anyway." (Sneed, p. 62)
Bill Newman: "We didn't run up towards the grassy knoll like the rest of
the people. We started walking up there when they stopped us. A lot of
people did run up the grassy knoll in that area afterwards, but we were
not as anxious as most of the crowd to try to find someone. I don't know
why they were running up that way. Maybe the Secret Service men or whoever
initiated it, but I just think it was more or less a crowd reaction. I
doubt if the people saw or heard anything up there." (Sneed, p. 97)
And there is Postal Inspector Harry Holmes who was watching with 7X50
binoculars from the Terminal Office Building: "I kept the binoculars
around to see if anybody left the area, especially the parking area and
the railroad tracks where a guy would likely try to escape. I remember
also a big chain link fence in back of the School Book Depository. I also
noticed a lot of people lined up on the Triple Underpass, but I never saw
anybody in a hurry to get away as if they were trying to escape, and I
watched the area with those high powered binoculars the whole time."
(Sneed, p. 353)
Mark
Your acoustic evidence, that you cite as authoritative, concluded that
only one shot was fired from the GK/fence area. Three were fired from the
TSBD.

If true - it's not but let's go with it - then Zapruder was wrong when he
says the shots (plural) came from behind or back of him.
Anthony Marsh
2018-12-04 23:56:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Mark
A familiar refrain from CTs on here and in their writings is that Abraham
Zapruder said the shots came behind his location on the pedestal. It lends
substantial credence to a GK shooter and thus a two-gunmen conspiracy. But
Mr. Liebeler - As you were standing on this abutment facing Elm Street,
you say the police ran over behind the concrete structure behind you and
down the railroad track behind that, is that right?
Mr. Zapruder - After the shots?
Mr. Liebeler - Yes.
Mr. Zapruder - Yes--after the shots--yes, some of them were motorcycle
cops--I guess they left their motorcycles running and they were running
right behind me, of course in the line of the shooting. I guess they
thought it came from right behind me.
Mr. Liebeler - Did you have any impression as to the direction from which
these shots came?
Mr. Zapruder - No, I also thought it came from back of me. Of course, you
can't tell when something is in line it could come from anywhere, but
being I was here and he was hit right in the head--I saw it right around
here, so it looked like it came from here and it could come from there.
Mr. Liebeler - All right, as you stood here on the abutment and looked
down into Elm Street, you saw the President hit on the right side of the
head and you thought perhaps the shots had come from behind you?
Mr. Zapruder - Well, yes.
Mr. Liebeler - From the direction behind you?
Mr. Zapruder - Yes, actually--I couldn't say what I thought at the moment,
where they came from--after the impact of the tragedy was really what I
saw and I started--yelling--"they've killed him"--I assumed that they came
from there, because as the police started running back of me, it looked
like it came from the back of me.
Mr. Liebeler - But you didn't form any opinion at that time as to what
direction the shots did come from actually?
Mr. Zapruder - No.
Mr. Liebeler - And you indicated that they could have come also from
behind or from any other direction except perhaps from the left, because
they could have been from behind or even from the front.
Mr. Zapruder - Well, it could have been--in other words if you have a
point--you could hit a point from any place, as far as that's concerned.
I have no way of determining what direction the bullet was going.
Mr. Liebeler - Did you form any opinion about the direction from which the
shots came by sound, or were you just upset by the thing you had seen?
Mr. Zapruder - No, there was too much reverberation. There was an echo
which gave me sound all over. In other words that square is kind of--it
had sound all over.
As usual for a supporter of the cover-up you fail to follow Loftus's
advice and look for the EARLIEST statements.
In fact, Zapruder that same day told a SS agent that he thought the
position of the assassin was behind him.
CD 87
https://www.history-matters.com/analysis/witness/witnessMap/Zapruder.htm
So, do you think the TSBD was behind Zapruder?
You don't even have a map of Dealey Plaza.
Post by Mark
******
IMO, Zapruder did not know where the shots were fired from. He was
heavily influenced by the law enforcement officers running up the GK
towards the RR tracks behind him. And by the spectators who will
invariably run after the cops because they surely know something they, the
spectators, don't, when actually the police are just making guesses
too.
Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney: "We then ran over into Dealey Plaza, crossed
Elm, jumped over the wall of the embankment on what's now called the
grassy knoll and headed toward the railroad yards. At that time, it seemed
to have been the most logical place to begin looking unless you had
actually known from where the shots originated, which I didn't." (Larry
Sneed, NO MORE SILENCE, p. 225)
DPD Sgt. David Harkness: "I tried to find someone...an escape route. I
knew we had people stationed all around the place, so I got on my motor
and went down to Industrial because there was an open area back behind the
railroad to see if I could see anything or anybody trying to escape. After
I made a quick turn down there and could see nothing, I came back to the
area and started searching behind the railroad yards, not because I
thought shots had come from there, but because we were looking for an
unknown, somebody running, trying to get away." (Sneed, p. 206)
Charles Brehm: "After I hit the ground and smothered the boy, it was all
over. The people were running helter-skelter here and there. They were
running up to the top of that hill it seemed to me in almost sheep-like
fashion following somebody running up those steps. There was a policeman
who ran up those steps also. Apparently people thought that he was chasing
something, which he certainly wasn't. There were no shots from area, but
some of the people followed him anyway." (Sneed, p. 62)
Bill Newman: "We didn't run up towards the grassy knoll like the rest of
the people. We started walking up there when they stopped us. A lot of
people did run up the grassy knoll in that area afterwards, but we were
not as anxious as most of the crowd to try to find someone. I don't know
why they were running up that way. Maybe the Secret Service men or whoever
initiated it, but I just think it was more or less a crowd reaction. I
doubt if the people saw or heard anything up there." (Sneed, p. 97)
And there is Postal Inspector Harry Holmes who was watching with 7X50
binoculars from the Terminal Office Building: "I kept the binoculars
around to see if anybody left the area, especially the parking area and
the railroad tracks where a guy would likely try to escape. I remember
also a big chain link fence in back of the School Book Depository. I also
noticed a lot of people lined up on the Triple Underpass, but I never saw
anybody in a hurry to get away as if they were trying to escape, and I
watched the area with those high powered binoculars the whole time."
(Sneed, p. 353)
Mark
Your acoustic evidence, that you cite as authoritative, concluded that
only one shot was fired from the GK/fence area. Three were fired from the
TSBD.
Yes, that's what I believe, but the did not investigate further.
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
If true - it's not but let's go with it - then Zapruder was wrong when he
says the shots (plural) came from behind or back of him.
He didn't say that. He said the head shot and the shooter was behind him.
So you think the TSBD was BEHIND Zapruder? Is that what McAdams told you?
Because you were too afraid to look at a map?
Steve Barber
2018-12-06 13:29:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Mark
A familiar refrain from CTs on here and in their writings is that Abraham
Zapruder said the shots came behind his location on the pedestal. It lends
substantial credence to a GK shooter and thus a two-gunmen conspiracy. But
Mr. Liebeler - As you were standing on this abutment facing Elm Street,
you say the police ran over behind the concrete structure behind you and
down the railroad track behind that, is that right?
Mr. Zapruder - After the shots?
Mr. Liebeler - Yes.
Mr. Zapruder - Yes--after the shots--yes, some of them were motorcycle
cops--I guess they left their motorcycles running and they were running
right behind me, of course in the line of the shooting. I guess they
thought it came from right behind me.
Mr. Liebeler - Did you have any impression as to the direction from which
these shots came?
Mr. Zapruder - No, I also thought it came from back of me. Of course, you
can't tell when something is in line it could come from anywhere, but
being I was here and he was hit right in the head--I saw it right around
here, so it looked like it came from here and it could come from there.
Mr. Liebeler - All right, as you stood here on the abutment and looked
down into Elm Street, you saw the President hit on the right side of the
head and you thought perhaps the shots had come from behind you?
Mr. Zapruder - Well, yes.
Mr. Liebeler - From the direction behind you?
Mr. Zapruder - Yes, actually--I couldn't say what I thought at the moment,
where they came from--after the impact of the tragedy was really what I
saw and I started--yelling--"they've killed him"--I assumed that they came
from there, because as the police started running back of me, it looked
like it came from the back of me.
Mr. Liebeler - But you didn't form any opinion at that time as to what
direction the shots did come from actually?
Mr. Zapruder - No.
Mr. Liebeler - And you indicated that they could have come also from
behind or from any other direction except perhaps from the left, because
they could have been from behind or even from the front.
Mr. Zapruder - Well, it could have been--in other words if you have a
point--you could hit a point from any place, as far as that's concerned.
I have no way of determining what direction the bullet was going.
Mr. Liebeler - Did you form any opinion about the direction from which the
shots came by sound, or were you just upset by the thing you had seen?
Mr. Zapruder - No, there was too much reverberation. There was an echo
which gave me sound all over. In other words that square is kind of--it
had sound all over.
As usual for a supporter of the cover-up you fail to follow Loftus's
advice and look for the EARLIEST statements.
In fact, Zapruder that same day told a SS agent that he thought the
position of the assassin was behind him.
CD 87
https://www.history-matters.com/analysis/witness/witnessMap/Zapruder.htm
So, do you think the TSBD was behind Zapruder?
You don't even have a map of Dealey Plaza.
Post by Mark
******
IMO, Zapruder did not know where the shots were fired from. He was
heavily influenced by the law enforcement officers running up the GK
towards the RR tracks behind him. And by the spectators who will
invariably run after the cops because they surely know something they, the
spectators, don't, when actually the police are just making guesses
too.
Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney: "We then ran over into Dealey Plaza, crossed
Elm, jumped over the wall of the embankment on what's now called the
grassy knoll and headed toward the railroad yards. At that time, it seemed
to have been the most logical place to begin looking unless you had
actually known from where the shots originated, which I didn't." (Larry
Sneed, NO MORE SILENCE, p. 225)
DPD Sgt. David Harkness: "I tried to find someone...an escape route. I
knew we had people stationed all around the place, so I got on my motor
and went down to Industrial because there was an open area back behind the
railroad to see if I could see anything or anybody trying to escape. After
I made a quick turn down there and could see nothing, I came back to the
area and started searching behind the railroad yards, not because I
thought shots had come from there, but because we were looking for an
unknown, somebody running, trying to get away." (Sneed, p. 206)
Charles Brehm: "After I hit the ground and smothered the boy, it was all
over. The people were running helter-skelter here and there. They were
running up to the top of that hill it seemed to me in almost sheep-like
fashion following somebody running up those steps. There was a policeman
who ran up those steps also. Apparently people thought that he was chasing
something, which he certainly wasn't. There were no shots from area, but
some of the people followed him anyway." (Sneed, p. 62)
Bill Newman: "We didn't run up towards the grassy knoll like the rest of
the people. We started walking up there when they stopped us. A lot of
people did run up the grassy knoll in that area afterwards, but we were
not as anxious as most of the crowd to try to find someone. I don't know
why they were running up that way. Maybe the Secret Service men or whoever
initiated it, but I just think it was more or less a crowd reaction. I
doubt if the people saw or heard anything up there." (Sneed, p. 97)
And there is Postal Inspector Harry Holmes who was watching with 7X50
binoculars from the Terminal Office Building: "I kept the binoculars
around to see if anybody left the area, especially the parking area and
the railroad tracks where a guy would likely try to escape. I remember
also a big chain link fence in back of the School Book Depository. I also
noticed a lot of people lined up on the Triple Underpass, but I never saw
anybody in a hurry to get away as if they were trying to escape, and I
watched the area with those high powered binoculars the whole time."
(Sneed, p. 353)
Mark
Your acoustic evidence, that you cite as authoritative, concluded that
only one shot was fired from the GK/fence area. Three were fired from the
TSBD.
Yes, that's what I believe, but the did not investigate further.
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
If true - it's not but let's go with it - then Zapruder was wrong when he
says the shots (plural) came from behind or back of him.
He didn't say that. He said the head shot and the shooter was behind him.
So you think the TSBD was BEHIND Zapruder? Is that what McAdams told you?
Because you were too afraid to look at a map?
Tony--among others in here--suffers from McAdams derangement syndrome.
Anthony Marsh
2018-12-07 17:00:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steve Barber
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Mark
A familiar refrain from CTs on here and in their writings is that Abraham
Zapruder said the shots came behind his location on the pedestal. It lends
substantial credence to a GK shooter and thus a two-gunmen conspiracy. But
Mr. Liebeler - As you were standing on this abutment facing Elm Street,
you say the police ran over behind the concrete structure behind you and
down the railroad track behind that, is that right?
Mr. Zapruder - After the shots?
Mr. Liebeler - Yes.
Mr. Zapruder - Yes--after the shots--yes, some of them were motorcycle
cops--I guess they left their motorcycles running and they were running
right behind me, of course in the line of the shooting. I guess they
thought it came from right behind me.
Mr. Liebeler - Did you have any impression as to the direction from which
these shots came?
Mr. Zapruder - No, I also thought it came from back of me. Of course, you
can't tell when something is in line it could come from anywhere, but
being I was here and he was hit right in the head--I saw it right around
here, so it looked like it came from here and it could come from there.
Mr. Liebeler - All right, as you stood here on the abutment and looked
down into Elm Street, you saw the President hit on the right side of the
head and you thought perhaps the shots had come from behind you?
Mr. Zapruder - Well, yes.
Mr. Liebeler - From the direction behind you?
Mr. Zapruder - Yes, actually--I couldn't say what I thought at the moment,
where they came from--after the impact of the tragedy was really what I
saw and I started--yelling--"they've killed him"--I assumed that they came
from there, because as the police started running back of me, it looked
like it came from the back of me.
Mr. Liebeler - But you didn't form any opinion at that time as to what
direction the shots did come from actually?
Mr. Zapruder - No.
Mr. Liebeler - And you indicated that they could have come also from
behind or from any other direction except perhaps from the left, because
they could have been from behind or even from the front.
Mr. Zapruder - Well, it could have been--in other words if you have a
point--you could hit a point from any place, as far as that's concerned.
I have no way of determining what direction the bullet was going.
Mr. Liebeler - Did you form any opinion about the direction from which the
shots came by sound, or were you just upset by the thing you had seen?
Mr. Zapruder - No, there was too much reverberation. There was an echo
which gave me sound all over. In other words that square is kind of--it
had sound all over.
As usual for a supporter of the cover-up you fail to follow Loftus's
advice and look for the EARLIEST statements.
In fact, Zapruder that same day told a SS agent that he thought the
position of the assassin was behind him.
CD 87
https://www.history-matters.com/analysis/witness/witnessMap/Zapruder.htm
So, do you think the TSBD was behind Zapruder?
You don't even have a map of Dealey Plaza.
Post by Mark
******
IMO, Zapruder did not know where the shots were fired from. He was
heavily influenced by the law enforcement officers running up the GK
towards the RR tracks behind him. And by the spectators who will
invariably run after the cops because they surely know something they, the
spectators, don't, when actually the police are just making guesses
too.
Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney: "We then ran over into Dealey Plaza, crossed
Elm, jumped over the wall of the embankment on what's now called the
grassy knoll and headed toward the railroad yards. At that time, it seemed
to have been the most logical place to begin looking unless you had
actually known from where the shots originated, which I didn't." (Larry
Sneed, NO MORE SILENCE, p. 225)
DPD Sgt. David Harkness: "I tried to find someone...an escape route. I
knew we had people stationed all around the place, so I got on my motor
and went down to Industrial because there was an open area back behind the
railroad to see if I could see anything or anybody trying to escape. After
I made a quick turn down there and could see nothing, I came back to the
area and started searching behind the railroad yards, not because I
thought shots had come from there, but because we were looking for an
unknown, somebody running, trying to get away." (Sneed, p. 206)
Charles Brehm: "After I hit the ground and smothered the boy, it was all
over. The people were running helter-skelter here and there. They were
running up to the top of that hill it seemed to me in almost sheep-like
fashion following somebody running up those steps. There was a policeman
who ran up those steps also. Apparently people thought that he was chasing
something, which he certainly wasn't. There were no shots from area, but
some of the people followed him anyway." (Sneed, p. 62)
Bill Newman: "We didn't run up towards the grassy knoll like the rest of
the people. We started walking up there when they stopped us. A lot of
people did run up the grassy knoll in that area afterwards, but we were
not as anxious as most of the crowd to try to find someone. I don't know
why they were running up that way. Maybe the Secret Service men or whoever
initiated it, but I just think it was more or less a crowd reaction. I
doubt if the people saw or heard anything up there." (Sneed, p. 97)
And there is Postal Inspector Harry Holmes who was watching with 7X50
binoculars from the Terminal Office Building: "I kept the binoculars
around to see if anybody left the area, especially the parking area and
the railroad tracks where a guy would likely try to escape. I remember
also a big chain link fence in back of the School Book Depository. I also
noticed a lot of people lined up on the Triple Underpass, but I never saw
anybody in a hurry to get away as if they were trying to escape, and I
watched the area with those high powered binoculars the whole time."
(Sneed, p. 353)
Mark
Your acoustic evidence, that you cite as authoritative, concluded that
only one shot was fired from the GK/fence area. Three were fired from the
TSBD.
Yes, that's what I believe, but the did not investigate further.
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
If true - it's not but let's go with it - then Zapruder was wrong when he
says the shots (plural) came from behind or back of him.
He didn't say that. He said the head shot and the shooter was behind him.
So you think the TSBD was BEHIND Zapruder? Is that what McAdams told you?
Because you were too afraid to look at a map?
Tony--among others in here--suffers from McAdams derangement syndrome.
Well, some of us believe in the truth, not the cover-up.
Steve M. Galbraith
2018-12-06 20:03:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Mark
A familiar refrain from CTs on here and in their writings is that Abraham
Zapruder said the shots came behind his location on the pedestal. It lends
substantial credence to a GK shooter and thus a two-gunmen conspiracy. But
Mr. Liebeler - As you were standing on this abutment facing Elm Street,
you say the police ran over behind the concrete structure behind you and
down the railroad track behind that, is that right?
Mr. Zapruder - After the shots?
Mr. Liebeler - Yes.
Mr. Zapruder - Yes--after the shots--yes, some of them were motorcycle
cops--I guess they left their motorcycles running and they were running
right behind me, of course in the line of the shooting. I guess they
thought it came from right behind me.
Mr. Liebeler - Did you have any impression as to the direction from which
these shots came?
Mr. Zapruder - No, I also thought it came from back of me. Of course, you
can't tell when something is in line it could come from anywhere, but
being I was here and he was hit right in the head--I saw it right around
here, so it looked like it came from here and it could come from there.
Mr. Liebeler - All right, as you stood here on the abutment and looked
down into Elm Street, you saw the President hit on the right side of the
head and you thought perhaps the shots had come from behind you?
Mr. Zapruder - Well, yes.
Mr. Liebeler - From the direction behind you?
Mr. Zapruder - Yes, actually--I couldn't say what I thought at the moment,
where they came from--after the impact of the tragedy was really what I
saw and I started--yelling--"they've killed him"--I assumed that they came
from there, because as the police started running back of me, it looked
like it came from the back of me.
Mr. Liebeler - But you didn't form any opinion at that time as to what
direction the shots did come from actually?
Mr. Zapruder - No.
Mr. Liebeler - And you indicated that they could have come also from
behind or from any other direction except perhaps from the left, because
they could have been from behind or even from the front.
Mr. Zapruder - Well, it could have been--in other words if you have a
point--you could hit a point from any place, as far as that's concerned.
I have no way of determining what direction the bullet was going.
Mr. Liebeler - Did you form any opinion about the direction from which the
shots came by sound, or were you just upset by the thing you had seen?
Mr. Zapruder - No, there was too much reverberation. There was an echo
which gave me sound all over. In other words that square is kind of--it
had sound all over.
As usual for a supporter of the cover-up you fail to follow Loftus's
advice and look for the EARLIEST statements.
In fact, Zapruder that same day told a SS agent that he thought the
position of the assassin was behind him.
CD 87
https://www.history-matters.com/analysis/witness/witnessMap/Zapruder.htm
So, do you think the TSBD was behind Zapruder?
You don't even have a map of Dealey Plaza.
Post by Mark
******
IMO, Zapruder did not know where the shots were fired from. He was
heavily influenced by the law enforcement officers running up the GK
towards the RR tracks behind him. And by the spectators who will
invariably run after the cops because they surely know something they, the
spectators, don't, when actually the police are just making guesses
too.
Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney: "We then ran over into Dealey Plaza, crossed
Elm, jumped over the wall of the embankment on what's now called the
grassy knoll and headed toward the railroad yards. At that time, it seemed
to have been the most logical place to begin looking unless you had
actually known from where the shots originated, which I didn't." (Larry
Sneed, NO MORE SILENCE, p. 225)
DPD Sgt. David Harkness: "I tried to find someone...an escape route. I
knew we had people stationed all around the place, so I got on my motor
and went down to Industrial because there was an open area back behind the
railroad to see if I could see anything or anybody trying to escape. After
I made a quick turn down there and could see nothing, I came back to the
area and started searching behind the railroad yards, not because I
thought shots had come from there, but because we were looking for an
unknown, somebody running, trying to get away." (Sneed, p. 206)
Charles Brehm: "After I hit the ground and smothered the boy, it was all
over. The people were running helter-skelter here and there. They were
running up to the top of that hill it seemed to me in almost sheep-like
fashion following somebody running up those steps. There was a policeman
who ran up those steps also. Apparently people thought that he was chasing
something, which he certainly wasn't. There were no shots from area, but
some of the people followed him anyway." (Sneed, p. 62)
Bill Newman: "We didn't run up towards the grassy knoll like the rest of
the people. We started walking up there when they stopped us. A lot of
people did run up the grassy knoll in that area afterwards, but we were
not as anxious as most of the crowd to try to find someone. I don't know
why they were running up that way. Maybe the Secret Service men or whoever
initiated it, but I just think it was more or less a crowd reaction. I
doubt if the people saw or heard anything up there." (Sneed, p. 97)
And there is Postal Inspector Harry Holmes who was watching with 7X50
binoculars from the Terminal Office Building: "I kept the binoculars
around to see if anybody left the area, especially the parking area and
the railroad tracks where a guy would likely try to escape. I remember
also a big chain link fence in back of the School Book Depository. I also
noticed a lot of people lined up on the Triple Underpass, but I never saw
anybody in a hurry to get away as if they were trying to escape, and I
watched the area with those high powered binoculars the whole time."
(Sneed, p. 353)
Mark
Your acoustic evidence, that you cite as authoritative, concluded that
only one shot was fired from the GK/fence area. Three were fired from the
TSBD.
Yes, that's what I believe, but the did not investigate further.
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
If true - it's not but let's go with it - then Zapruder was wrong when he
says the shots (plural) came from behind or back of him.
He didn't say that. He said the head shot and the shooter was behind him.
So you think the TSBD was BEHIND Zapruder? Is that what McAdams told you?
Because you were too afraid to look at a map?
Nowhere did Zapruder say "the head shot and shooter was behind him." He
said the shots, plural, sounded like they came from "back of him".

Here he is in his WC testimony:

Mr. LIEBELER - All right, as you stood here on the abutment and looked
down into Elm Street, you saw the President hit on the right side of the
head and you thought perhaps the shots [plural] had come from behind you?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Well, yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - From the direction behind you?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Yes....

He said he thought perhaps the shots - plural - came from behind him. Not
one shot but shots. This is completely at odds with your acoustic
evidence.

Either the acoustic evidence is wrong or Zapruder was when he said he
thought the shots came from behind him.

Or both.
Anthony Marsh
2018-12-07 17:03:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Mark
A familiar refrain from CTs on here and in their writings is that Abraham
Zapruder said the shots came behind his location on the pedestal. It lends
substantial credence to a GK shooter and thus a two-gunmen conspiracy. But
Mr. Liebeler - As you were standing on this abutment facing Elm Street,
you say the police ran over behind the concrete structure behind you and
down the railroad track behind that, is that right?
Mr. Zapruder - After the shots?
Mr. Liebeler - Yes.
Mr. Zapruder - Yes--after the shots--yes, some of them were motorcycle
cops--I guess they left their motorcycles running and they were running
right behind me, of course in the line of the shooting. I guess they
thought it came from right behind me.
Mr. Liebeler - Did you have any impression as to the direction from which
these shots came?
Mr. Zapruder - No, I also thought it came from back of me. Of course, you
can't tell when something is in line it could come from anywhere, but
being I was here and he was hit right in the head--I saw it right around
here, so it looked like it came from here and it could come from there.
Mr. Liebeler - All right, as you stood here on the abutment and looked
down into Elm Street, you saw the President hit on the right side of the
head and you thought perhaps the shots had come from behind you?
Mr. Zapruder - Well, yes.
Mr. Liebeler - From the direction behind you?
Mr. Zapruder - Yes, actually--I couldn't say what I thought at the moment,
where they came from--after the impact of the tragedy was really what I
saw and I started--yelling--"they've killed him"--I assumed that they came
from there, because as the police started running back of me, it looked
like it came from the back of me.
Mr. Liebeler - But you didn't form any opinion at that time as to what
direction the shots did come from actually?
Mr. Zapruder - No.
Mr. Liebeler - And you indicated that they could have come also from
behind or from any other direction except perhaps from the left, because
they could have been from behind or even from the front.
Mr. Zapruder - Well, it could have been--in other words if you have a
point--you could hit a point from any place, as far as that's concerned.
I have no way of determining what direction the bullet was going.
Mr. Liebeler - Did you form any opinion about the direction from which the
shots came by sound, or were you just upset by the thing you had seen?
Mr. Zapruder - No, there was too much reverberation. There was an echo
which gave me sound all over. In other words that square is kind of--it
had sound all over.
As usual for a supporter of the cover-up you fail to follow Loftus's
advice and look for the EARLIEST statements.
In fact, Zapruder that same day told a SS agent that he thought the
position of the assassin was behind him.
CD 87
https://www.history-matters.com/analysis/witness/witnessMap/Zapruder.htm
So, do you think the TSBD was behind Zapruder?
You don't even have a map of Dealey Plaza.
Post by Mark
******
IMO, Zapruder did not know where the shots were fired from. He was
heavily influenced by the law enforcement officers running up the GK
towards the RR tracks behind him. And by the spectators who will
invariably run after the cops because they surely know something they, the
spectators, don't, when actually the police are just making guesses
too.
Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney: "We then ran over into Dealey Plaza, crossed
Elm, jumped over the wall of the embankment on what's now called the
grassy knoll and headed toward the railroad yards. At that time, it seemed
to have been the most logical place to begin looking unless you had
actually known from where the shots originated, which I didn't." (Larry
Sneed, NO MORE SILENCE, p. 225)
DPD Sgt. David Harkness: "I tried to find someone...an escape route. I
knew we had people stationed all around the place, so I got on my motor
and went down to Industrial because there was an open area back behind the
railroad to see if I could see anything or anybody trying to escape. After
I made a quick turn down there and could see nothing, I came back to the
area and started searching behind the railroad yards, not because I
thought shots had come from there, but because we were looking for an
unknown, somebody running, trying to get away." (Sneed, p. 206)
Charles Brehm: "After I hit the ground and smothered the boy, it was all
over. The people were running helter-skelter here and there. They were
running up to the top of that hill it seemed to me in almost sheep-like
fashion following somebody running up those steps. There was a policeman
who ran up those steps also. Apparently people thought that he was chasing
something, which he certainly wasn't. There were no shots from area, but
some of the people followed him anyway." (Sneed, p. 62)
Bill Newman: "We didn't run up towards the grassy knoll like the rest of
the people. We started walking up there when they stopped us. A lot of
people did run up the grassy knoll in that area afterwards, but we were
not as anxious as most of the crowd to try to find someone. I don't know
why they were running up that way. Maybe the Secret Service men or whoever
initiated it, but I just think it was more or less a crowd reaction. I
doubt if the people saw or heard anything up there." (Sneed, p. 97)
And there is Postal Inspector Harry Holmes who was watching with 7X50
binoculars from the Terminal Office Building: "I kept the binoculars
around to see if anybody left the area, especially the parking area and
the railroad tracks where a guy would likely try to escape. I remember
also a big chain link fence in back of the School Book Depository. I also
noticed a lot of people lined up on the Triple Underpass, but I never saw
anybody in a hurry to get away as if they were trying to escape, and I
watched the area with those high powered binoculars the whole time."
(Sneed, p. 353)
Mark
Your acoustic evidence, that you cite as authoritative, concluded that
only one shot was fired from the GK/fence area. Three were fired from the
TSBD.
Yes, that's what I believe, but the did not investigate further.
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
If true - it's not but let's go with it - then Zapruder was wrong when he
says the shots (plural) came from behind or back of him.
He didn't say that. He said the head shot and the shooter was behind him.
So you think the TSBD was BEHIND Zapruder? Is that what McAdams told you?
Because you were too afraid to look at a map?
Nowhere did Zapruder say "the head shot and shooter was behind him." He
said the shots, plural, sounded like they came from "back of him".
Mr. LIEBELER - All right, as you stood here on the abutment and looked
down into Elm Street, you saw the President hit on the right side of the
head and you thought perhaps the shots [plural] had come from behind you?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Well, yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - From the direction behind you?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Yes....
He said he thought perhaps the shots - plural - came from behind him. Not
one shot but shots. This is completely at odds with your acoustic
evidence.
Either the acoustic evidence is wrong or Zapruder was when he said he
thought the shots came from behind him.
Or both.
Always look for the earliest statement, preferably the same day.
CD - 87 Folder 1
CO2 34030 11/22
9:55

To: Chief Rowley
From: Max D. Phillips
Subject: 8mm movie film showing President
Kennedy being shot

Enclosed is an 8mm movie film
taken by Mr. A. Zapruder, 501 Elm St., Dallas
Texas (RI8-6071)

Mr.. Zapruder was photographing
the President at the instant he was shot.

According to Mr. Zapruder, the position of
the assassin was behind Mr. Zapruder.

Note: Disregard personnel scenes
shown on Mr. Zapruder’s film.. Mr. Zapruder
is in custody of the "master" film. Two prints
were given to SAIC Sorrels, this date.
The third print is forwarded.

Max D. Phillips
Special Agent - PRS

Max D. Phillips
Special Agent - PRS

SS SA Max Phillips wrote to Rowley
Do I have to post this every day for you?
A PSY DOC
2018-12-05 02:40:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Every accurate map of Dealey Plaza clearly documents for everyone that all
the way up to JFK's Elm Street location at Z-313, the GK picket fence was
always behind Mr. Zapruder and his camera's JFK and Elm Street facing
direction.
InsideSparta
2018-12-06 13:30:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by A PSY DOC
Every accurate map of Dealey Plaza clearly documents for everyone that all
the way up to JFK's Elm Street location at Z-313, the GK picket fence was
always behind Mr. Zapruder and his camera's JFK and Elm Street facing
direction.
Not true. At Z-313, with Zapruder facing directly towards the presidential
car from his position on the concrete pedestal, the portion of the
stockade fence that runs parallel to Elm Street is to the right of
Zapruder, and actually ahead of him (i.e. closer to Elm Street). You can
see the portion of the stockade fence that runs perpendicular to Elm
Street in the later portion of the Z-film, as he panned his camera to the
right, following the limo as it headed under the triple underpass. So, it
is rather silly for someone that promotes a GK shooter behind the stockade
fence to also point out Zapruder's comment about the shots coming from
behind him as proof of there being a GK gunman; simply because that
location behind the fence was anything but behind Zapruder at Z-313. It
was to his right and actually a bit ahead of him.
Anthony Marsh
2018-12-07 17:01:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by InsideSparta
Post by A PSY DOC
Every accurate map of Dealey Plaza clearly documents for everyone that all
the way up to JFK's Elm Street location at Z-313, the GK picket fence was
always behind Mr. Zapruder and his camera's JFK and Elm Street facing
direction.
Not true. At Z-313, with Zapruder facing directly towards the presidential
car from his position on the concrete pedestal, the portion of the
stockade fence that runs parallel to Elm Street is to the right of
Zapruder, and actually ahead of him (i.e. closer to Elm Street). You can
see the portion of the stockade fence that runs perpendicular to Elm
Street in the later portion of the Z-film, as he panned his camera to the
right, following the limo as it headed under the triple underpass. So, it
is rather silly for someone that promotes a GK shooter behind the stockade
fence to also point out Zapruder's comment about the shots coming from
behind him as proof of there being a GK gunman; simply because that
location behind the fence was anything but behind Zapruder at Z-313. It
was to his right and actually a bit ahead of him.
It's not PROOF. It is a clue.

Maybe you don't have map. The shooter was behind him during the shooting.
Once he turned around to get off the pedestal to get off, THEN the shooter
position would be in front of him, so you are right about that.


Loading Image...
Anthony Marsh
2018-12-06 19:59:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by A PSY DOC
Every accurate map of Dealey Plaza clearly documents for everyone that all
the way up to JFK's Elm Street location at Z-313, the GK picket fence was
always behind Mr. Zapruder and his camera's JFK and Elm Street facing
direction.
Sure, but some idiot keeps putting the X in the wrong spot.


And McAdams stood there and said the TSBD was behind him.
Minions beware.
claviger
2018-12-06 20:01:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by A PSY DOC
Every accurate map of Dealey Plaza clearly documents for everyone that all
the way up to JFK's Elm Street location at Z-313, the GK picket fence was
always behind Mr. Zapruder and his camera's JFK and Elm Street facing
direction.
What do you mean behind? At the time of the last shot Zapruder was
pointing his camera at a 90º right angle to the Limousine with
Sitzman standing behind him. Behind her was the Pergola not the wooden
fence.
Anthony Marsh
2018-12-07 17:03:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by claviger
Post by A PSY DOC
Every accurate map of Dealey Plaza clearly documents for everyone that all
the way up to JFK's Elm Street location at Z-313, the GK picket fence was
always behind Mr. Zapruder and his camera's JFK and Elm Street facing
direction.
What do you mean behind? At the time of the last shot Zapruder was
pointing his camera at a 90º right angle to the Limousine with
Sitzman standing behind him. Behind her was the Pergola not the wooden
fence.
Not exactly 90 degrees. nut almost perpendicular.
The angle to JFK is more important than the angle to various parts of
the limo.
The pedestal was part of the pergola design so behind him is not really
the correct way to say it. Maybe you mean the South Shelter. That would
be a better way to phrase it. But Zapruder did not say 90 degrees behind
him so we just have to use a straight line through his shoulders and
ANYTHING that is behind him. He did not know exactly where. I suspect
that heard the shock wave go past his right ear.

http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/knollmen.gif
claviger
2018-12-08 16:22:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by A PSY DOC
Every accurate map of Dealey Plaza clearly documents for everyone that all
the way up to JFK's Elm Street location at Z-313, the GK picket fence was
always behind Mr. Zapruder and his camera's JFK and Elm Street facing
direction.
What do you mean behind? At the time of the last shot Zapruder was
pointing his camera at a 90º right angle to the Limousine with
Sitzman standing behind him. Behind her was the Pergola not the wooden
fence.
Not exactly 90 degrees. nut almost perpendicular.
The angle to JFK is more important than the angle to various parts of
the limo.
The pedestal was part of the pergola design so behind him is not really
the correct way to say it. Maybe you mean the South Shelter. That would
be a better way to phrase it. But Zapruder did not say 90 degrees behind
him so we just have to use a straight line through his shoulders and
ANYTHING that is behind him. He did not know exactly where. I suspect
that heard the shock wave go past his right ear.
http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/knollmen.gif
Thanks for the diagram that proves the Pergola is directly behind Zapruder
and the wooden fence is to his right. Standing behind Zapruder is Sitzman
who confirmed she heard no loud blast behind her elevated position on top
of the pedestal, or from any direction to her right. She did hear loud
noises from her left in the direction of TSBD. She was younger and taller
than her boss Abraham Zapruder.
Anthony Marsh
2018-12-09 18:35:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by A PSY DOC
Every accurate map of Dealey Plaza clearly documents for everyone that all
the way up to JFK's Elm Street location at Z-313, the GK picket fence was
always behind Mr. Zapruder and his camera's JFK and Elm Street facing
direction.
What do you mean behind? At the time of the last shot Zapruder was
pointing his camera at a 90?? right angle to the Limousine with
Sitzman standing behind him. Behind her was the Pergola not the wooden
fence.
Not exactly 90 degrees. nut almost perpendicular.
The angle to JFK is more important than the angle to various parts of
the limo.
The pedestal was part of the pergola design so behind him is not really
the correct way to say it. Maybe you mean the South Shelter. That would
be a better way to phrase it. But Zapruder did not say 90 degrees behind
him so we just have to use a straight line through his shoulders and
ANYTHING that is behind him. He did not know exactly where. I suspect
that heard the shock wave go past his right ear.
http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/knollmen.gif
Thanks for the diagram that proves the Pergola is directly behind Zapruder
The SOUTH SHELTER was directly behind Zapruder. No shots were fired
from the South Sheltzer. It would be agood hiding plac, but a difficult
shot.
Post by claviger
and the wooden fence is to his right. Standing behind Zapruder is Sitzman
who confirmed she heard no loud blast behind her elevated position on top
FUCK Sitzman. She wouldn't admit anything.
Others heard a shot from the grassy knoll. The MAJORITY.
Post by claviger
of the pedestal, or from any direction to her right. She did hear loud
noises from her left in the direction of TSBD. She was younger and taller
than her boss Abraham Zapruder.
Yes, some people heard shots from the TSBD. THat is not disputed except by
Liftonites. And the acoustical evidence proves that three shots were fired
from the sniper's nest.

Try to stay on topic.
Jason Burke
2018-12-10 16:25:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by A PSY DOC
Every accurate map of Dealey Plaza clearly documents for everyone that all
the way up to JFK's Elm Street location at Z-313, the GK picket fence was
always behind Mr. Zapruder and his camera's JFK and Elm Street facing
direction.
What do you mean behind?  At the time of the last shot Zapruder was
pointing his camera at a 90?? right angle to the Limousine with
Sitzman standing behind him. Behind her was the Pergola not the wooden
fence.
Not exactly 90 degrees. nut almost perpendicular.
The angle to JFK is more important than the angle to various parts of
the limo.
The pedestal was part of the pergola design so behind him is not really
the correct way to say it. Maybe you mean the South Shelter. That would
be a better way to phrase it. But Zapruder did not say 90 degrees behind
him so we just have to use a straight line through his shoulders and
ANYTHING that is behind him. He did not know exactly where. I suspect
that heard the shock wave go past his right ear.
http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/knollmen.gif
Thanks for the diagram that proves the Pergola is directly behind Zapruder
The SOUTH SHELTER  was directly behind Zapruder. No shots were fired
from the South Sheltzer. It would be agood hiding plac, but a  difficult
shot.
Post by claviger
and the wooden fence is to his right.  Standing behind Zapruder is
Sitzman
who confirmed she heard no loud blast behind her elevated position on top
FUCK Sitzman. She wouldn't admit anything.
Others heard a shot from the grassy knoll. The MAJORITY.
Post by claviger
of the pedestal, or from any direction to her right. She did hear loud
noises from her left in the direction of TSBD.  She was younger and
taller
than her boss Abraham Zapruder.
Yes, some people heard shots from the TSBD. THat is not disputed except
by Liftonites. And the acoustical evidence proves that three shots were
fired from the sniper's nest.
Really sad that you're still counting on the acoustical "evidence",
Anthony Anthony.

But I guess when you're doomed, you grasp at every straw you can find, eh?
Try to stay on topic.
claviger
2018-12-11 03:53:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by A PSY DOC
Every accurate map of Dealey Plaza clearly documents for everyone that all
the way up to JFK's Elm Street location at Z-313, the GK picket fence was
always behind Mr. Zapruder and his camera's JFK and Elm Street facing
direction.
What do you mean behind? At the time of the last shot Zapruder was
pointing his camera at a 90?? right angle to the Limousine with
Sitzman standing behind him. Behind her was the Pergola not the wooden
fence.
Not exactly 90 degrees. nut almost perpendicular.
The angle to JFK is more important than the angle to various parts of
the limo.
The pedestal was part of the pergola design so behind him is not really
the correct way to say it. Maybe you mean the South Shelter. That would
be a better way to phrase it. But Zapruder did not say 90 degrees behind
him so we just have to use a straight line through his shoulders and
ANYTHING that is behind him. He did not know exactly where. I suspect
that heard the shock wave go past his right ear.
http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/knollmen.gif
Thanks for the diagram that proves the Pergola is directly behind Zapruder
The SOUTH SHELTER was directly behind Zapruder. No shots were fired
from the South Sheltzer. It would be agood hiding plac, but a difficult
shot.
South Shelter? The North Pergola parallels Elm St which runs east and west.
You seem very confused and disoriented.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
and the wooden fence is to his right. Standing behind Zapruder is Sitzman
who confirmed she heard no loud blast behind her elevated position on top
FUCK Sitzman. She wouldn't admit anything.
How did this trashy vulgarity get past the censors? Sitzman was a
very good witness according to your pal Josiah "Tink" Thompson.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Others heard a shot from the grassy knoll. The MAJORITY.
As pointed out many times 8 key witnesses were close to the picket
fence. Not one of them reported a shot came from the Grassy Knoll.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
of the pedestal, or from any direction to her right. She did hear loud
noises from her left in the direction of TSBD. She was younger and taller
than her boss Abraham Zapruder.
Yes, some people heard shots from the TSBD. THat is not disputed except by
Liftonites. And the acoustical evidence proves that three shots were fired
from the sniper's nest.
Try to stay on topic.
The so-called "acoustic evidence" is basically junk science in this case.
Anthony Marsh
2018-12-12 21:53:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by A PSY DOC
Every accurate map of Dealey Plaza clearly documents for everyone that all
the way up to JFK's Elm Street location at Z-313, the GK picket fence was
always behind Mr. Zapruder and his camera's JFK and Elm Street facing
direction.
What do you mean behind? At the time of the last shot Zapruder was
pointing his camera at a 90?? right angle to the Limousine with
Sitzman standing behind him. Behind her was the Pergola not the wooden
fence.
Not exactly 90 degrees. nut almost perpendicular.
The angle to JFK is more important than the angle to various parts of
the limo.
The pedestal was part of the pergola design so behind him is not really
the correct way to say it. Maybe you mean the South Shelter. That would
be a better way to phrase it. But Zapruder did not say 90 degrees behind
him so we just have to use a straight line through his shoulders and
ANYTHING that is behind him. He did not know exactly where. I suspect
that heard the shock wave go past his right ear.
http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/knollmen.gif
Thanks for the diagram that proves the Pergola is directly behind Zapruder
The SOUTH SHELTER was directly behind Zapruder. No shots were fired
from the South Sheltzer. It would be agood hiding plac, but a difficult
shot.
South Shelter? The North Pergola parallels Elm St which runs east and west.
You seem very confused and disoriented.
No.The North Pergola is curved with a 90 degre angle from east to south.
I am talking about sheler #3 which is south of shelter #4.
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
and the wooden fence is to his right. Standing behind Zapruder is Sitzman
who confirmed she heard no loud blast behind her elevated position on top
FUCK Sitzman. She wouldn't admit anything.
How did this trashy vulgarity get past the censors? Sitzman was a
very good witness according to your pal Josiah "Tink" Thompson.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Others heard a shot from the grassy knoll. The MAJORITY.
As pointed out many times 8 key witnesses were close to the picket
fence. Not one of them reported a shot came from the Grassy Knoll.
False. You are cherry picking your witnesses.
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
of the pedestal, or from any direction to her right. She did hear loud
noises from her left in the direction of TSBD. She was younger and taller
than her boss Abraham Zapruder.
Yes, some people heard shots from the TSBD. THat is not disputed except by
Liftonites. And the acoustical evidence proves that three shots were fired
from the sniper's nest.
Try to stay on topic.
The so-called "acoustic evidence" is basically junk science in this case.
Spoken like a true Trumpie.
claviger
2018-12-13 16:06:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
The SOUTH SHELTER was directly behind Zapruder. No shots were fired
from the South Sheltzer. It would be agood hiding plac, but a difficult shot.
South Shelter? The North Pergola parallels Elm St which runs east and west.
You seem very confused and disoriented.
No. The North Pergola is curved with a 90 degre angle from east to south.
I am talking about sheler #3 which is south of shelter #4.
So you agree no shot was fired behind Sitzman since a concrete structure
was in back of her, not a wooden structure called a "fence".
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Others heard a shot from the grassy knoll. The MAJORITY.
As pointed out many times 8 key witnesses were close to the picket
fence. Not one of them reported a shot came from the Grassy Knoll.
False. You are cherry picking your witnesses.
Gosh I'm glad you never do that! The witnesses are who they are, saw what
they saw, and heard what they heard. Another description for cherry
picking is grouping into subsets. It's a statistical concept. You
wouldn't understand so don't strain your brain, you might hurt yourself.
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
of the pedestal, or from any direction to her right. She did hear loud
noises from her left in the direction of TSBD. She was younger and taller
than her boss Abraham Zapruder.
Yes, some people heard shots from the TSBD. THat is not disputed except by
Liftonites. And the acoustical evidence proves that three shots were fired
from the sniper's nest.
Try to stay on topic.
The so-called "acoustic evidence" is basically junk science in this case.
Spoken like a true Trumpie.
I've been saying that before he ran for office as the ultimate outsider
who wants to drain the swamp in DC and expose all the snakes and worms. DC
has become a flagrant den of thieves.

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