Discussion:
Diametric Opposite Wound Ballistics
(too old to reply)
claviger
2018-07-04 01:47:38 UTC
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Raw Message
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italians
designed the perfect projectile in compliance. It was called the
"humanitarian bullet". The Italian Army should be commended for developing
this projectile in ethical conformity with the ethics of humane warfare.

The AR-15 .223/5.56mm was designed to punch several small holes in an
enemy soldier at high velocity in bursts to immediately disable the enemy
soldier. Extreme velocity made these smaller bullets tumble when hitting
human targets which often caused devastating wounds with an explosive
effect. These bullets are considered unstable and some critics want them
designated as frangible bullets therefore prohibited by NATO members for
military use under the Hague Convention agreements. The USA was not a
signatory but pressure groups are demanding these bullets be replaced by
more stable projectiles. The US Army is now considering a .26 cal/ 6.5mm
bullet to replace the current M16 ammunition.

New rifle, bigger bullets: Inside the Army's plan to ditch the M4 and 5.56
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2017/05/07/new-rifle-bigger
-bullets-inside-the-army-s-plan-to-ditch-the-m4-and-5-56/
claviger
2018-07-05 23:11:27 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italian Army
designed the perfect projectile in compliance to this humane concept.
It was called the "humanitarian bullet" and the Italian General Staff should
be commended for developing this projectile in conformity with the ethics
hoped for by the Hague Convention.
The AR-15 .223/5.56mm was designed to punch several small holes in an
enemy soldier at high velocity in bursts to immediately disable the enemy
soldier. Extreme velocity made these smaller bullets tumble when hitting
human targets which often caused devastating wounds with an explosive
effect. These bullets are considered unstable and some critics want them
designated as frangible bullets therefore prohibited by NATO members for
military use under the Hague Convention agreements. The USA was not a
signatory but pressure groups are demanding these bullets be replaced by
more stable projectiles. The US Army is now considering a .26 cal/ 6.5mm
bullet to replace the current M16 ammunition.
New rifle, bigger bullets: Inside the Army's plan to ditch the M4 and 5.56
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2017/05/07/new-rifle-bigger
-bullets-inside-the-army-s-plan-to-ditch-the-m4-and-5-56/
The Carcano used a long parallel round nose bullet that resisted tumbling
in soft tissue and pine boards, thus acting as a virtual drill bit. The
AR15/M16 bullets lacked the aerodynamic design factors of weight and
length ratio to maintain longitudinal stability when passing through the
human body, having a tendency to tumble or fragment especially when making
impact with bone. This erratic tendency caused devastating wounds and
condemnation of the AR15 and M16 weapons that evolved from it. Some severe
critics denounced the M16 as basically a frangible bullet. The US Army
has now taken steps to correct this situation as a continuing NATO ally.
mainframetech
2018-07-07 12:57:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italian Army
designed the perfect projectile in compliance to this humane concept.
It was called the "humanitarian bullet" and the Italian General Staff should
be commended for developing this projectile in conformity with the ethics
hoped for by the Hague Convention.
Hmm. Then why was there a path of tiny particles through the skull of
JFK? Was it a different type of bullet, perhaps lead and not the FMJ type
used for the MC rifle?
Post by claviger
Post by claviger
The AR-15 .223/5.56mm was designed to punch several small holes in an
enemy soldier at high velocity in bursts to immediately disable the enemy
soldier. Extreme velocity made these smaller bullets tumble when hitting
human targets which often caused devastating wounds with an explosive
effect. These bullets are considered unstable and some critics want them
designated as frangible bullets therefore prohibited by NATO members for
military use under the Hague Convention agreements. The USA was not a
signatory but pressure groups are demanding these bullets be replaced by
more stable projectiles. The US Army is now considering a .26 cal/ 6.5mm
bullet to replace the current M16 ammunition.
New rifle, bigger bullets: Inside the Army's plan to ditch the M4 and 5.56
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2017/05/07/new-rifle-bigger
-bullets-inside-the-army-s-plan-to-ditch-the-m4-and-5-56/
The Carcano used a long parallel round nose bullet that resisted tumbling
in soft tissue and pine boards, thus acting as a virtual drill bit. The
AR15/M16 bullets lacked the aerodynamic design factors of weight and
length ratio to maintain longitudinal stability when passing through the
human body, having a tendency to tumble or fragment especially when making
impact with bone. This erratic tendency caused devastating wounds and
condemnation of the AR15 and M16 weapons that evolved from it. Some severe
critics denounced the M16 as basically a frangible bullet. The US Army
has now taken steps to correct this situation as a continuing NATO ally.
Anthony Marsh
2018-07-08 12:52:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italian Army
designed the perfect projectile in compliance to this humane concept.
It was called the "humanitarian bullet" and the Italian General Staff should
be commended for developing this projectile in conformity with the ethics
hoped for by the Hague Convention.
Hmm. Then why was there a path of tiny particles through the skull of
JFK? Was it a different type of bullet, perhaps lead and not the FMJ type
used for the MC rifle?
How rude! You are not allowed to ask a member of the cover-up a question
which would destroy the cover-up.

Can YOU see any pieces of the copper jacket left in the brain? There were
dozens of tiny dustlike lead fragments left in the brain. Show me a test
shot of an Oswald bullet that does that. Please. Anyone, any planet.
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by claviger
The AR-15 .223/5.56mm was designed to punch several small holes in an
enemy soldier at high velocity in bursts to immediately disable the enemy
soldier. Extreme velocity made these smaller bullets tumble when hitting
human targets which often caused devastating wounds with an explosive
effect. These bullets are considered unstable and some critics want them
designated as frangible bullets therefore prohibited by NATO members for
military use under the Hague Convention agreements. The USA was not a
signatory but pressure groups are demanding these bullets be replaced by
more stable projectiles. The US Army is now considering a .26 cal/ 6.5mm
bullet to replace the current M16 ammunition.
New rifle, bigger bullets: Inside the Army's plan to ditch the M4 and 5.56
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2017/05/07/new-rifle-bigger
-bullets-inside-the-army-s-plan-to-ditch-the-m4-and-5-56/
The Carcano used a long parallel round nose bullet that resisted tumbling
in soft tissue and pine boards, thus acting as a virtual drill bit. The
AR15/M16 bullets lacked the aerodynamic design factors of weight and
length ratio to maintain longitudinal stability when passing through the
human body, having a tendency to tumble or fragment especially when making
impact with bone. This erratic tendency caused devastating wounds and
condemnation of the AR15 and M16 weapons that evolved from it. Some severe
critics denounced the M16 as basically a frangible bullet. The US Army
has now taken steps to correct this situation as a continuing NATO ally.
claviger
2018-07-08 12:52:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italian Army
designed the perfect projectile in compliance to this humane concept.
It was called the "humanitarian bullet" and the Italian General Staff should
be commended for developing this projectile in conformity with the ethics
hoped for by the Hague Convention.
Hmm. Then why was there a path of tiny particles through the skull of
JFK? Was it a different type of bullet, perhaps lead and not the FMJ type
used for the MC rifle?
That would be a logical question by any ballistician.
mainframetech
2018-07-09 14:34:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italian Army
designed the perfect projectile in compliance to this humane concept.
It was called the "humanitarian bullet" and the Italian General Staff should
be commended for developing this projectile in conformity with the ethics
hoped for by the Hague Convention.
Hmm. Then why was there a path of tiny particles through the skull of
JFK? Was it a different type of bullet, perhaps lead and not the FMJ type
used for the MC rifle?
That would be a logical question by any ballistician.
And the logical answer would be that it was more likely a lead bullet
and was fired from a different gun that the MC rifle proving conspiracy.

Chris
claviger
2018-07-10 14:13:21 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italian Army
designed the perfect projectile in compliance to this humane concept.
It was called the "humanitarian bullet" and the Italian General Staff should
be commended for developing this projectile in conformity with the ethics
hoped for by the Hague Convention.
Hmm. Then why was there a path of tiny particles through the skull of
JFK? Was it a different type of bullet, perhaps lead and not the FMJ type
used for the MC rifle?
That would be a logical question by any ballistician.
And the logical answer would be that it was more likely a lead bullet
was fired from a different gun that the MC rifle proving conspiracy.
Chris
It would be more logical but not definitive proof of conspiracy. Since
the long picket fence was unguarded any number of deranged people could
have walked up there and fired a shot at the President for any number of
grievances. The reason why it is shocking the USSS, FBI, DPD, DCSD, US
Marshalls, et al, did not have at least one security guard up there
whether asked for or not, plus the fact it was a good place to see the
parade go by.
Anthony Marsh
2018-07-12 02:05:01 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italian Army
designed the perfect projectile in compliance to this humane concept.
It was called the "humanitarian bullet" and the Italian General Staff should
be commended for developing this projectile in conformity with the ethics
hoped for by the Hague Convention.
Hmm. Then why was there a path of tiny particles through the skull of
JFK? Was it a different type of bullet, perhaps lead and not the FMJ type
used for the MC rifle?
That would be a logical question by any ballistician.
And the logical answer would be that it was more likely a lead bullet
was fired from a different gun that the MC rifle proving conspiracy.
Chris
It would be more logical but not definitive proof of conspiracy. Since
the long picket fence was unguarded any number of deranged people could
100? 1,000?
Post by claviger
have walked up there and fired a shot at the President for any number of
grievances. The reason why it is shocking the USSS, FBI, DPD, DCSD, US
Sure, and some guy could have been cleaning his gun for hunting season and
it went off accidentally. You WC defenders will go to any length to avoid
admitting conspiracy. Like the dissenters on the HSCA. Shots from two
different directions is just coincidence?
Post by claviger
Marshalls, et al, did not have at least one security guard up there
whether asked for or not, plus the fact it was a good place to see the
parade go by.
Why did you leave the 112th Military Group out of your straw man
argument? What about the aliens? You're just not trying hard enough.
mainframetech
2018-07-12 02:47:31 UTC
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Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italian Army
designed the perfect projectile in compliance to this humane concept.
It was called the "humanitarian bullet" and the Italian General Staff should
be commended for developing this projectile in conformity with the ethics
hoped for by the Hague Convention.
Hmm. Then why was there a path of tiny particles through the skull of
JFK? Was it a different type of bullet, perhaps lead and not the FMJ type
used for the MC rifle?
That would be a logical question by any ballistician.
And the logical answer would be that it was more likely a lead bullet
was fired from a different gun that the MC rifle proving conspiracy.
Chris
It would be more logical but not definitive proof of conspiracy. Since
the long picket fence was unguarded any number of deranged people could
have walked up there and fired a shot at the President for any number of
grievances. The reason why it is shocking the USSS, FBI, DPD, DCSD, US
Marshalls, et al, did not have at least one security guard up there
whether asked for or not, plus the fact it was a good place to see the
parade go by.
Thank you. You've described some of the many possibilities for
multiple murderers. The odds are far more happy with the 2 people being
in cahoots than otherwise.

Chris
bigdog
2018-07-13 00:48:22 UTC
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Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italian Army
designed the perfect projectile in compliance to this humane concept.
It was called the "humanitarian bullet" and the Italian General Staff should
be commended for developing this projectile in conformity with the ethics
hoped for by the Hague Convention.
Hmm. Then why was there a path of tiny particles through the skull of
JFK? Was it a different type of bullet, perhaps lead and not the FMJ type
used for the MC rifle?
That would be a logical question by any ballistician.
And the logical answer would be that it was more likely a lead bullet
was fired from a different gun that the MC rifle proving conspiracy.
Chris
It would be more logical but not definitive proof of conspiracy. Since
the long picket fence was unguarded any number of deranged people could
have walked up there and fired a shot at the President for any number of
grievances. The reason why it is shocking the USSS, FBI, DPD, DCSD, US
Marshalls, et al, did not have at least one security guard up there
whether asked for or not, plus the fact it was a good place to see the
parade go by.
Easy to say in hindsight. Nobody knew there would be a shooting in Dealey
Plaza. There were countless places along the parade route where a sniper
could fire a shot from? Why would they think the area behind the GK needed
a guard any more than any of those other places. Nobody had unlimited
manpower. Resources were deployed where it was believed they would do the
most good. For example they had a cop on the overpass. They couldn't
possibly have guarded against every contingency.
claviger
2018-07-13 18:38:56 UTC
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Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italian Army
designed the perfect projectile in compliance to this humane concept.
It was called the "humanitarian bullet" and the Italian General Staff should
be commended for developing this projectile in conformity with the ethics
hoped for by the Hague Convention.
Hmm. Then why was there a path of tiny particles through the skull of
JFK? Was it a different type of bullet, perhaps lead and not the FMJ type
used for the MC rifle?
That would be a logical question by any ballistician.
And the logical answer would be that it was more likely a lead bullet
was fired from a different gun that the MC rifle proving conspiracy.
Chris
It would be more logical but not definitive proof of conspiracy. Since
the long picket fence was unguarded any number of deranged people could
have walked up there and fired a shot at the President for any number of
grievances. The reason why it is shocking the USSS, FBI, DPD, DCSD, US
Marshalls, et al, did not have at least one security guard up there
whether asked for or not, plus the fact it was a good place to see the
parade go by.
Easy to say in hindsight. Nobody knew there would be a shooting in Dealey
Plaza. There were countless places along the parade route where a sniper
could fire a shot from? Why would they think the area behind the GK needed
a guard any more than any of those other places. Nobody had unlimited
manpower. Resources were deployed where it was believed they would do the
most good. For example they had a cop on the overpass. They couldn't
possibly have guarded against every contingency.
It was the most obvious place for an easy shot on the entire route
and in the very heart of Dallas. The Sheriff department was one
block away with Deputies just standing around watching the
motorcade turn the corner. Just asking for one Deputy to
amble on down the plaza and stand in front of the fence
if nothing else so a drunk doesn't show up and take a
shot with his .22 cal bolt action rifle.
bigdog
2018-07-14 03:45:43 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italian Army
designed the perfect projectile in compliance to this humane concept.
It was called the "humanitarian bullet" and the Italian General Staff should
be commended for developing this projectile in conformity with the ethics
hoped for by the Hague Convention.
Hmm. Then why was there a path of tiny particles through the skull of
JFK? Was it a different type of bullet, perhaps lead and not the FMJ type
used for the MC rifle?
That would be a logical question by any ballistician.
And the logical answer would be that it was more likely a lead bullet
was fired from a different gun that the MC rifle proving conspiracy.
Chris
It would be more logical but not definitive proof of conspiracy. Since
the long picket fence was unguarded any number of deranged people could
have walked up there and fired a shot at the President for any number of
grievances. The reason why it is shocking the USSS, FBI, DPD, DCSD, US
Marshalls, et al, did not have at least one security guard up there
whether asked for or not, plus the fact it was a good place to see the
parade go by.
Easy to say in hindsight. Nobody knew there would be a shooting in Dealey
Plaza. There were countless places along the parade route where a sniper
could fire a shot from? Why would they think the area behind the GK needed
a guard any more than any of those other places. Nobody had unlimited
manpower. Resources were deployed where it was believed they would do the
most good. For example they had a cop on the overpass. They couldn't
possibly have guarded against every contingency.
It was the most obvious place for an easy shot on the entire route
and in the very heart of Dallas. The Sheriff department was one
block away with Deputies just standing around watching the
motorcade turn the corner. Just asking for one Deputy to
amble on down the plaza and stand in front of the fence
if nothing else so a drunk doesn't show up and take a
shot with his .22 cal bolt action rifle.
I would dispute that. About ten years ago I drove the route from Love
Field to DP as best as current traffic patterns would allow. There were
any number of possible ambush sites along the route every bit as inviting
as in DP. There's no way anyone could anticipate where a shooting was
going to take place and no reason to believe one location deserved special
attention over all the others.
claviger
2018-07-14 23:52:53 UTC
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Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
It was the most obvious place for an easy shot on the entire route
and in the very heart of Dallas. The Sheriff department was one
block away with Deputies just standing around watching the
motorcade turn the corner. Just asking for one Deputy to
amble on down the plaza and stand in front of the fence
if nothing else so a drunk doesn't show up and take a
shot with his .22 cal bolt action rifle.
I would dispute that. About ten years ago I drove the route from Love
Field to DP as best as current traffic patterns would allow. There were
any number of possible ambush sites along the route every bit as inviting
as in DP. There's no way anyone could anticipate where a shooting was
going to take place and no reason to believe one location deserved special
attention over all the others.
What the SSA try to avoid when planning a parade route is sharp turns
causing the Limousine to slow down. Do you remember how many 90º
turns like that on your drive from Love Field? There were two 90º turns
in Dealey Plaza and the second was even worse where the Limousine
went too wide and almost hit the curb, as one witnesses described it.
What the SSA didn't like was the heavy Limousine was slow to recover
and get back up to speed. For that reason the passengers were more
vulnerable in Dealey Plaza than any other part of the parade route.

The question is did LHO take his first shot as the Limousine was trying
to regain Parade speed? You have done a good job analyzing why that
shot was an awkward angle. After that shot the Limousine was up to
normal speed of about 12 mph going down Elm Street when two more
shots were fired. One could argue the slow wide acute angle turn from
Houston St actually saved the President and the other two shots on the
part of the street going downhill is where the damage was done.

The Limousine safely negotiated the two 90º turns considered the most
dangerous part on the parade route with no injury to passengers from a
gunshot. What happened next would have been the same even had the
the Limousine come straight down Elm St all the way with no turns. You
have asked the question had the Motorcade gone straight down Main St
to avoid the two sharp turns in Dealey Plaza how much difference would
it make? That is a good question.

After giving that some thought you're correct from distance perspective
not all that much. The angles would be different and the motorcade can
pass by at somewhat higher speed 15-20 mph, but still in a danger zone
of the rifle used in the ambush. That angle would have put the First Lady
more at risk.

The part I will never understand is all the negative publicity that preceded
this trip about City of Dallas being a dangerous environment for a parade
through the crowded downtown area in an open Limousine, why the SSA
did not seem all that worried about it. Some people advised against this
trip to Dallas based on a previous incident that got national press where
Adlai Stevenson was whacked on the head by a lady with a placard and
later someone took a rifle shot at a local politician.

That sobering incident should elevate the safety strategy by all those in
charge of planning this upcoming parade but I see no efforts of a higher
level of security, just business as usual. The sad part it would have been
so easy to spread more resources around Dealey Plaza.

Local authorities were put off by the attitude of SSA and FBI not taking
their advice, but some of that was due to instructions by the President
and his desire to not be surrounded by motorcycles. Instead of being
perturbed, there were a few simple things the local authorities can do
on their own from "an abundance of caution".

Four buildings overlooked Dealey Plaza. (1) The County Jail, then the
(2) County Records Building. Unlikely buildings, one is full of Deputies
and prisoners. The CRB claimed no open windows during the Parade.

The next 2 Buildings were problematic. (3) The Dal-Tex was a perfect
position for a shot down Elm St heading west. (4 ) The TSBD provided
multiple positions to fire at an oncoming parade vehicle and of course
a vehicle moving west toward the Triple Underpass.

Buildings (3) and (4) needed the most attention as a possible security
risk. Two DPD or DCSD officers positioned on the fire escape on the
east side of the TSBD, one high one low, could easily keep the Dal-Tex
under surveillance.

That leaves the front side and west side of the TSBD. Six floors six
DPD/DCSD would be a good idea out of an abundance of caution.
Four more security officers, one in front of the North Pergola and
one behind, and two more behind the Picket fence.

Only a dozen volunteers could have secured Dealey Plaza from a
sniper attack. There were 7 departments to request support: DPD,
DCSD, DPS, FBI, ATF, Federal Marshalls, and local US Military Intel.
Retired Peace Officers could volunteer, all licensed to carry permit.

Volunteer observers would be the VFW and Eagle Scouts. This could
have been a marvelous opportunity as a community effort and great
PR for the City of Dallas who went all out to protect the President of
the USA on his visit to Texas.
Anthony Marsh
2018-07-15 21:44:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
It was the most obvious place for an easy shot on the entire route
and in the very heart of Dallas. The Sheriff department was one
block away with Deputies just standing around watching the
motorcade turn the corner. Just asking for one Deputy to
amble on down the plaza and stand in front of the fence
if nothing else so a drunk doesn't show up and take a
shot with his .22 cal bolt action rifle.
I would dispute that. About ten years ago I drove the route from Love
Field to DP as best as current traffic patterns would allow. There were
any number of possible ambush sites along the route every bit as inviting
as in DP. There's no way anyone could anticipate where a shooting was
going to take place and no reason to believe one location deserved special
attention over all the others.
What the SSA try to avoid when planning a parade route is sharp turns
causing the Limousine to slow down. Do you remember how many 90º
turns like that on your drive from Love Field? There were two 90º turns
in Dealey Plaza and the second was even worse where the Limousine
went too wide and almost hit the curb, as one witnesses described it.
What the SSA didn't like was the heavy Limousine was slow to recover
and get back up to speed. For that reason the passengers were more
vulnerable in Dealey Plaza than any other part of the parade route.
The way to avoid the sharp turn is to keep going down Main to Industrial
BLVD. But they thought that route was a little ugly.
Post by claviger
The question is did LHO take his first shot as the Limousine was trying
to regain Parade speed? You have done a good job analyzing why that
shot was an awkward angle. After that shot the Limousine was up to
normal speed of about 12 mph going down Elm Street when two more
shots were fired. One could argue the slow wide acute angle turn from
Houston St actually saved the President and the other two shots on the
part of the street going downhill is where the damage was done.
People keep asking why not fire down onto Houston STreet.
But there is not as clear a shot then because of the windshield,
Connally's seat in front of the target and the parade bar.
Plus the SS might see the shot being fired and take evasive action.
Post by claviger
The Limousine safely negotiated the two 90º turns considered the most
dangerous part on the parade route with no injury to passengers from a
gunshot. What happened next would have been the same even had the
the Limousine come straight down Elm St all the way with no turns. You
have asked the question had the Motorcade gone straight down Main St
to avoid the two sharp turns in Dealey Plaza how much difference would
it make? That is a good question.
After giving that some thought you're correct from distance perspective
not all that much. The angles would be different and the motorcade can
pass by at somewhat higher speed 15-20 mph, but still in a danger zone
of the rifle used in the ambush. That angle would have put the First Lady
more at risk.
The motorcade was designed for 15 MPH. Wouldn't stopping to chat wit the
nun and the kids also put the President at risk?
Post by claviger
The part I will never understand is all the negative publicity that preceded
this trip about City of Dallas being a dangerous environment for a parade
through the crowded downtown area in an open Limousine, why the SSA
The attack on Stevenson. The hate speech.
The Wanted For Treason poster.
Post by claviger
did not seem all that worried about it. Some people advised against this
trip to Dallas based on a previous incident that got national press where
Adlai Stevenson was whacked on the head by a lady with a placard and
later someone took a rifle shot at a local politician.
And the DPD could not figure out that one either.
Post by claviger
That sobering incident should elevate the safety strategy by all those in
charge of planning this upcoming parade but I see no efforts of a higher
level of security, just business as usual. The sad part it would have been
so easy to spread more resources around Dealey Plaza.
Only if they were cnompetent and had the man power.
Did you spot any counter snipers?
Post by claviger
Local authorities were put off by the attitude of SSA and FBI not taking
their advice, but some of that was due to instructions by the President
and his desire to not be surrounded by motorcycles. Instead of being
perturbed, there were a few simple things the local authorities can do
on their own from "an abundance of caution".
Being surrounded by motorcycles would not have stopped the shooting.
Post by claviger
Four buildings overlooked Dealey Plaza. (1) The County Jail, then the
(2) County Records Building. Unlikely buildings, one is full of Deputies
and prisoners. The CRB claimed no open windows during the Parade.
The next 2 Buildings were problematic. (3) The Dal-Tex was a perfect
position for a shot down Elm St heading west. (4 ) The TSBD provided
Not that good.
Post by claviger
multiple positions to fire at an oncoming parade vehicle and of course
a vehicle moving west toward the Triple Underpass.
Buildings (3) and (4) needed the most attention as a possible security
risk. Two DPD or DCSD officers positioned on the fire escape on the
east side of the TSBD, one high one low, could easily keep the Dal-Tex
under surveillance.
Sure, always what if with you. What if JFK had not gone to Dallas, the
City of Hate? What if Hosty had arrested Oswald and he was in jail.
Could he still make that shot from that angle?
Post by claviger
That leaves the front side and west side of the TSBD. Six floors six
DPD/DCSD would be a good idea out of an abundance of caution.
Four more security officers, one in front of the North Pergola and
one behind, and two more behind the Picket fence.
Only a dozen volunteers could have secured Dealey Plaza from a
sniper attack. There were 7 departments to request support: DPD,
DCSD, DPS, FBI, ATF, Federal Marshalls, and local US Military Intel.
Retired Peace Officers could volunteer, all licensed to carry permit.
What about the Boy Scouts?
Post by claviger
Volunteer observers would be the VFW and Eagle Scouts. This could
They didn't have enough Eagle Scouts.
Post by claviger
have been a marvelous opportunity as a community effort and great
PR for the City of Dallas who went all out to protect the President of
the USA on his visit to Texas.
But half of them wanted Kennedy dead.
bigdog
2018-07-15 23:41:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
It was the most obvious place for an easy shot on the entire route
and in the very heart of Dallas. The Sheriff department was one
block away with Deputies just standing around watching the
motorcade turn the corner. Just asking for one Deputy to
amble on down the plaza and stand in front of the fence
if nothing else so a drunk doesn't show up and take a
shot with his .22 cal bolt action rifle.
I would dispute that. About ten years ago I drove the route from Love
Field to DP as best as current traffic patterns would allow. There were
any number of possible ambush sites along the route every bit as inviting
as in DP. There's no way anyone could anticipate where a shooting was
going to take place and no reason to believe one location deserved special
attention over all the others.
What the SSA try to avoid when planning a parade route is sharp turns
causing the Limousine to slow down.
I've seen this repeated so many times that I suspect it is more factoid
than fact. I've never seen any documentation to support that this is SS
policy. It wouldn't even make sense since the purpose of the motorcade was
for the President to be seen and the motorcade moved quite slowly through
downtown.
Post by claviger
Do you remember how many 90º
turns like that on your drive from Love Field? There were two 90º turns
in Dealey Plaza and the second was even worse where the Limousine
went too wide and almost hit the curb, as one witnesses described it.
What the SSA didn't like was the heavy Limousine was slow to recover
and get back up to speed. For that reason the passengers were more
vulnerable in Dealey Plaza than any other part of the parade route.
How are you going to plan a motorcade and avoid 90 degree turns. Almost
all turns in a city are going to be 90 degrees. It was a 90 degree turn
from Harwood onto Main St. No, I don't remember how many 90 degree turns
there were other than that is was almost all of them. The 110 degree turn
onto Elm St. wouldn't be an issue either. You don't have to slow down any
more for a 110 degree turn than you do for a 90 degree turn. You are just
going to turn longer than you would for a 90 degree turn.
Post by claviger
The question is did LHO take his first shot as the Limousine was trying
to regain Parade speed?
Probably since the parade was almost over and the crowds along Elm St. was
quite sparse so that would be when I would expect them to speed up to
where they would enter the Stemmons Freeway.
Post by claviger
You have done a good job analyzing why that
shot was an awkward angle. After that shot the Limousine was up to
normal speed of about 12 mph going down Elm Street when two more
shots were fired. One could argue the slow wide acute angle turn from
Houston St actually saved the President and the other two shots on the
part of the street going downhill is where the damage was done.
Looking at it from Oswald's vantage point, tracking the target and keeping
the crosshairs positioned while that turn was being made would be
problematic since the limo wouldn't be traveling in a straight line. If
the shot was fired at about Z151 as I believe, The limo would have just
straightened out about a second earlier. It seems to have straightened by
the time Zapruder resumed filming at Z133. It is speculation as to why he
missed with that shot but I have identified some of the problems he would
encounter that made that the hardest of the three shots. Again, looking at
it from Oswald's perspective, he had to take a shot then or wait until the
limo cleared the tree. If I had to make that decision, I would think a low
percentage shot is better than no shot. As hockey great Wayne Gretzky once
observed, "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take".
Post by claviger
The Limousine safely negotiated the two 90º turns considered the most
dangerous part on the parade route with no injury to passengers from a
gunshot. What happened next would have been the same even had the
the Limousine come straight down Elm St all the way with no turns. You
have asked the question had the Motorcade gone straight down Main St
to avoid the two sharp turns in Dealey Plaza how much difference would
it make? That is a good question.
That is true about the danger being the same had the limo come all the way
down Elm St. from Harwood but I don't see how those two turns would have
been any more dangerous than other turns the limo had to make. Main St.
was the logical place to come through downtown. There is a reason it is
called Main St. It wouldn't make sense to me to stay on Main St. out of
downtown. That parade was essentially over at that point and from there it
was a matter of taking the quickest route to the Trade Mart. Staying on
Main St. to Industrial Parkway made no sense since that would take longer
than going up Stemmons. There would have been no reason to avoid Elm St.
or Dealey Plaza. Nobody had a crystal ball telling them the danger that
lurked at Houston and Elm.
Post by claviger
After giving that some thought you're correct from distance perspective
not all that much. The angles would be different and the motorcade can
pass by at somewhat higher speed 15-20 mph, but still in a danger zone
of the rifle used in the ambush. That angle would have put the First Lady
more at risk.
Nobody knew there would be a rifle at Houston and Elm. There could have
been a rifle anywhere along the parade route. The only way to avoid that
risk was not to have a motorcade which would have run counter to the
wishes of the White House. JFK liked motorcades and as David Power
observed, they had a motorcade everywhere they went. Presidents no longer
travel in convertibles for obvious reasons but I saw film footage of Nixon
and his wife poking their heads out of the sunroof of that same limo after
it had been converted. This was during one of his inaugural parades.
During the 1980 campaign, I stood about 15-20 feet from Carter's limo when
he climbed up out of the sunroof and sat on top while the limo crawled
along at a walking pace. Politics has a way of trumping security concerns
in those situations. I found this photo of that event. It is on North High
St. in front of the Nationwide Building in Columbus, OH. I'm not positive
but that might be me on the far left with my face partially hidden by the
cop's head. That is about where I was. On the other hand it might be Billy
Lovelady.

Loading Image...

I noticed the date in the link is May 29 which I'm pretty sure is
incorrect. This happened during the general election campaign. At the same
time this was happening, Reagan was giving a speech on the Statehouse
grounds about 5-6 blocks to the south. May 29 was of course before either
primary was held although by that time both were the presumptive nominees
so I guess it is possible that was the date. My recollection was this was
around September but as the regulars on this board know I don't place a
lot of faith in decades old memories so maybe mine is a little fuzzy on
this point.

I just noticed in looking at this photo that this appears to be JFK's
Lincoln limo. I thought it had been retired by then but apparently I was
wrong.
Post by claviger
The part I will never understand is all the negative publicity that preceded
this trip about City of Dallas being a dangerous environment for a parade
through the crowded downtown area in an open Limousine, why the SSA
did not seem all that worried about it. Some people advised against this
trip to Dallas based on a previous incident that got national press where
Adlai Stevenson was whacked on the head by a lady with a placard and
later someone took a rifle shot at a local politician.
I'm sure the SS was worried about it but it wasn't there call. This was a
political trip and as I observed earlier, politics trumps security.
Post by claviger
That sobering incident should elevate the safety strategy by all those in
charge of planning this upcoming parade but I see no efforts of a higher
level of security, just business as usual. The sad part it would have been
so easy to spread more resources around Dealey Plaza.
Why would they. They had no advanced knowledge that would indicate Dealey
Plaza posed a greater threat than any other location. Even if they had, it
wouldn't have stopped Oswald.
Post by claviger
Local authorities were put off by the attitude of SSA and FBI not taking
their advice, but some of that was due to instructions by the President
and his desire to not be surrounded by motorcycles. Instead of being
perturbed, there were a few simple things the local authorities can do
on their own from "an abundance of caution".
Four buildings overlooked Dealey Plaza. (1) The County Jail, then the
(2) County Records Building. Unlikely buildings, one is full of Deputies
and prisoners. The CRB claimed no open windows during the Parade.
The next 2 Buildings were problematic. (3) The Dal-Tex was a perfect
position for a shot down Elm St heading west. (4 ) The TSBD provided
multiple positions to fire at an oncoming parade vehicle and of course
a vehicle moving west toward the Triple Underpass.
Buildings (3) and (4) needed the most attention as a possible security
risk. Two DPD or DCSD officers positioned on the fire escape on the
east side of the TSBD, one high one low, could easily keep the Dal-Tex
under surveillance.
That leaves the front side and west side of the TSBD. Six floors six
DPD/DCSD would be a good idea out of an abundance of caution.
Four more security officers, one in front of the North Pergola and
one behind, and two more behind the Picket fence.
Only a dozen volunteers could have secured Dealey Plaza from a
sniper attack. There were 7 departments to request support: DPD,
DCSD, DPS, FBI, ATF, Federal Marshalls, and local US Military Intel.
Retired Peace Officers could volunteer, all licensed to carry permit.
Volunteer observers would be the VFW and Eagle Scouts. This could
have been a marvelous opportunity as a community effort and great
PR for the City of Dallas who went all out to protect the President of
the USA on his visit to Texas.
I'm sure if you looked along that parade route, there were lots of prime
locations for an ambush. None of them would stand out over the others
including Dealey Plaza and they had limited resources. They deployed their
troops as best they could for crowd control. The only way to avoid a
sniper was to avoid having a motorcade at all and that wasn't going to
happen.
bigdog
2018-07-16 22:36:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by bigdog
Nobody knew there would be a rifle at Houston and Elm. There could have
been a rifle anywhere along the parade route. The only way to avoid that
risk was not to have a motorcade which would have run counter to the
wishes of the White House. JFK liked motorcades and as David Power
observed, they had a motorcade everywhere they went. Presidents no longer
travel in convertibles for obvious reasons but I saw film footage of Nixon
and his wife poking their heads out of the sunroof of that same limo after
it had been converted. This was during one of his inaugural parades.
During the 1980 campaign, I stood about 15-20 feet from Carter's limo when
he climbed up out of the sunroof and sat on top while the limo crawled
along at a walking pace. Politics has a way of trumping security concerns
in those situations. I found this photo of that event. It is on North High
St. in front of the Nationwide Building in Columbus, OH. I'm not positive
but that might be me on the far left with my face partially hidden by the
cop's head. That is about where I was. On the other hand it might be Billy
Lovelady.
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/CDH2X0/jan-26-2011-columbus-ohio-us-file-a-file-picture-dated-29-may-1980-CDH2X0.jpg
Don't you just love the 3 piece polyester suits worn by the SS agents.
They were quite popular back in that era. I had two of them myself. One
was a mix-and-match ensemble.
Jason Burke
2018-07-17 21:16:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by bigdog
Post by bigdog
Nobody knew there would be a rifle at Houston and Elm. There could have
been a rifle anywhere along the parade route. The only way to avoid that
risk was not to have a motorcade which would have run counter to the
wishes of the White House. JFK liked motorcades and as David Power
observed, they had a motorcade everywhere they went. Presidents no longer
travel in convertibles for obvious reasons but I saw film footage of Nixon
and his wife poking their heads out of the sunroof of that same limo after
it had been converted. This was during one of his inaugural parades.
During the 1980 campaign, I stood about 15-20 feet from Carter's limo when
he climbed up out of the sunroof and sat on top while the limo crawled
along at a walking pace. Politics has a way of trumping security concerns
in those situations. I found this photo of that event. It is on North High
St. in front of the Nationwide Building in Columbus, OH. I'm not positive
but that might be me on the far left with my face partially hidden by the
cop's head. That is about where I was. On the other hand it might be Billy
Lovelady.
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/CDH2X0/jan-26-2011-columbus-ohio-us-file-a-file-picture-dated-29-may-1980-CDH2X0.jpg
Don't you just love the 3 piece polyester suits worn by the SS agents.
They were quite popular back in that era. I had two of them myself. One
was a mix-and-match ensemble.
As my high school buddy used to say back in the mid-70s:

"How many polyesters had to die to make that suit?"
bigdog
2018-07-15 23:42:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
It was the most obvious place for an easy shot on the entire route
and in the very heart of Dallas. The Sheriff department was one
block away with Deputies just standing around watching the
motorcade turn the corner. Just asking for one Deputy to
amble on down the plaza and stand in front of the fence
if nothing else so a drunk doesn't show up and take a
shot with his .22 cal bolt action rifle.
I would dispute that. About ten years ago I drove the route from Love
Field to DP as best as current traffic patterns would allow. There were
any number of possible ambush sites along the route every bit as inviting
as in DP. There's no way anyone could anticipate where a shooting was
going to take place and no reason to believe one location deserved special
attention over all the others.
What the SSA try to avoid when planning a parade route is sharp turns
causing the Limousine to slow down. Do you remember how many 90º
turns like that on your drive from Love Field? There were two 90º turns
in Dealey Plaza and the second was even worse where the Limousine
went too wide and almost hit the curb, as one witnesses described it.
What the SSA didn't like was the heavy Limousine was slow to recover
and get back up to speed. For that reason the passengers were more
vulnerable in Dealey Plaza than any other part of the parade route.
The question is did LHO take his first shot as the Limousine was trying
to regain Parade speed? You have done a good job analyzing why that
shot was an awkward angle. After that shot the Limousine was up to
normal speed of about 12 mph going down Elm Street when two more
shots were fired. One could argue the slow wide acute angle turn from
Houston St actually saved the President and the other two shots on the
part of the street going downhill is where the damage was done.
The Limousine safely negotiated the two 90º turns considered the most
dangerous part on the parade route with no injury to passengers from a
gunshot. What happened next would have been the same even had the
the Limousine come straight down Elm St all the way with no turns. You
have asked the question had the Motorcade gone straight down Main St
to avoid the two sharp turns in Dealey Plaza how much difference would
it make? That is a good question.
After giving that some thought you're correct from distance perspective
not all that much. The angles would be different and the motorcade can
pass by at somewhat higher speed 15-20 mph, but still in a danger zone
of the rifle used in the ambush. That angle would have put the First Lady
more at risk.
The part I will never understand is all the negative publicity that preceded
this trip about City of Dallas being a dangerous environment for a parade
through the crowded downtown area in an open Limousine, why the SSA
did not seem all that worried about it. Some people advised against this
trip to Dallas based on a previous incident that got national press where
Adlai Stevenson was whacked on the head by a lady with a placard and
later someone took a rifle shot at a local politician.
That sobering incident should elevate the safety strategy by all those in
charge of planning this upcoming parade but I see no efforts of a higher
level of security, just business as usual. The sad part it would have been
so easy to spread more resources around Dealey Plaza.
Local authorities were put off by the attitude of SSA and FBI not taking
their advice, but some of that was due to instructions by the President
and his desire to not be surrounded by motorcycles. Instead of being
perturbed, there were a few simple things the local authorities can do
on their own from "an abundance of caution".
Four buildings overlooked Dealey Plaza. (1) The County Jail, then the
(2) County Records Building. Unlikely buildings, one is full of Deputies
and prisoners. The CRB claimed no open windows during the Parade.
The next 2 Buildings were problematic. (3) The Dal-Tex was a perfect
position for a shot down Elm St heading west. (4 ) The TSBD provided
multiple positions to fire at an oncoming parade vehicle and of course
a vehicle moving west toward the Triple Underpass.
Buildings (3) and (4) needed the most attention as a possible security
risk. Two DPD or DCSD officers positioned on the fire escape on the
east side of the TSBD, one high one low, could easily keep the Dal-Tex
under surveillance.
That leaves the front side and west side of the TSBD. Six floors six
DPD/DCSD would be a good idea out of an abundance of caution.
Four more security officers, one in front of the North Pergola and
one behind, and two more behind the Picket fence.
Only a dozen volunteers could have secured Dealey Plaza from a
sniper attack. There were 7 departments to request support: DPD,
DCSD, DPS, FBI, ATF, Federal Marshalls, and local US Military Intel.
Retired Peace Officers could volunteer, all licensed to carry permit.
Unless the volunteers were positioned on the 6th floor of the TSBD, they weren't going to stop Oswald from killing JFK.
Post by claviger
Volunteer observers would be the VFW and Eagle Scouts. This could
have been a marvelous opportunity as a community effort and great
PR for the City of Dallas who went all out to protect the President of
the USA on his visit to Texas.
PS. Before posting this I decided to do a google search to find out
whether my memory of the time of the event was correct. It wasn't. It did
happen on May 29 just as the link indicates. I found this story that
confirms that.

http://wvxu.org/post/day-jimmy-carter-and-ronald-reagan-almost-bumped-each-other-columbus#stream/0

The writer's memory is similar to mine. I worked in downtown Columbus
right across Broad St. from the Statehouse. Broad and High streets form
the main intersection in downtown Columbus. Reagan was giving his speech
on the west side of the Statehouse grounds which is on the High St. side.
This was during the lunch hour and Carter's rally was being held
simultaneously with the Reagan rally. Because it was closer, I went to the
Reagan rally first but didn't stay long because the crowds were so thick I
was all the way out on the High St. sidewalk about 200 feet away. I could
only get a glimpse of Reagan. I walked the five blocks north on High St.
to the Nationwide building where Carter was speaking. Even though I got
there late, I was able to get very close to where Carter was speaking.
Part of the difference in the size of the crowd might be attributed to the
fact Reagan was speaking in the heart of downtown while Carter was at the
northern edge, but it was clear Reagan was creating far more buzz even
that early in the campaign.
Anthony Marsh
2018-07-14 03:50:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italian Army
designed the perfect projectile in compliance to this humane concept.
It was called the "humanitarian bullet" and the Italian General Staff should
be commended for developing this projectile in conformity with the ethics
hoped for by the Hague Convention.
Hmm. Then why was there a path of tiny particles through the skull of
JFK? Was it a different type of bullet, perhaps lead and not the FMJ type
used for the MC rifle?
That would be a logical question by any ballistician.
And the logical answer would be that it was more likely a lead bullet
was fired from a different gun that the MC rifle proving conspiracy.
Chris
It would be more logical but not definitive proof of conspiracy. Since
the long picket fence was unguarded any number of deranged people could
have walked up there and fired a shot at the President for any number of
grievances. The reason why it is shocking the USSS, FBI, DPD, DCSD, US
Marshalls, et al, did not have at least one security guard up there
whether asked for or not, plus the fact it was a good place to see the
parade go by.
Easy to say in hindsight. Nobody knew there would be a shooting in Dealey
Plaza. There were countless places along the parade route where a sniper
could fire a shot from? Why would they think the area behind the GK needed
a guard any more than any of those other places. Nobody had unlimited
manpower. Resources were deployed where it was believed they would do the
most good. For example they had a cop on the overpass. They couldn't
possibly have guarded against every contingency.
It was the most obvious place for an easy shot on the entire route
The triple overpass was the best location which is why the DPD placed 2
policemen there. Even better would be a fake train on the overpass with
firing slits.
Post by claviger
and in the very heart of Dallas. The Sheriff department was one
block away with Deputies just standing around watching the
Why would deputies be watching the motorcade? Give me their names and
point them out in some photos.
Post by claviger
motorcade turn the corner. Just asking for one Deputy to
amble on down the plaza and stand in front of the fence
if nothing else so a drunk doesn't show up and take a
shot with his .22 cal bolt action rifle.
And arrest people driving cars into the ares with Goldwater stickers on
their bumpers.
mainframetech
2018-07-15 23:43:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italian Army
designed the perfect projectile in compliance to this humane concept.
It was called the "humanitarian bullet" and the Italian General Staff should
be commended for developing this projectile in conformity with the ethics
hoped for by the Hague Convention.
Hmm. Then why was there a path of tiny particles through the skull of
JFK? Was it a different type of bullet, perhaps lead and not the FMJ type
used for the MC rifle?
That would be a logical question by any ballistician.
And the logical answer would be that it was more likely a lead bullet
was fired from a different gun that the MC rifle proving conspiracy.
Chris
It would be more logical but not definitive proof of conspiracy. Since
the long picket fence was unguarded any number of deranged people could
have walked up there and fired a shot at the President for any number of
grievances. The reason why it is shocking the USSS, FBI, DPD, DCSD, US
Marshalls, et al, did not have at least one security guard up there
whether asked for or not, plus the fact it was a good place to see the
parade go by.
Easy to say in hindsight. Nobody knew there would be a shooting in Dealey
Plaza. There were countless places along the parade route where a sniper
could fire a shot from? Why would they think the area behind the GK needed
a guard any more than any of those other places. Nobody had unlimited
manpower. Resources were deployed where it was believed they would do the
most good. For example they had a cop on the overpass. They couldn't
possibly have guarded against every contingency.
It was the most obvious place for an easy shot on the entire route
and in the very heart of Dallas. The Sheriff department was one
block away with Deputies just standing around watching the
motorcade turn the corner. Just asking for one Deputy to
amble on down the plaza and stand in front of the fence
if nothing else so a drunk doesn't show up and take a
shot with his .22 cal bolt action rifle.
Supposedly, the sheriff's men that stood on the curb and watched the
motorcade go by were told to stay out of any protection jobs and mind
their business.

Chris
n***@gmail.com
2018-07-16 22:40:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italian Army
designed the perfect projectile in compliance to this humane concept.
It was called the "humanitarian bullet" and the Italian General Staff should
be commended for developing this projectile in conformity with the ethics
hoped for by the Hague Convention.
Hmm. Then why was there a path of tiny particles through the skull of
JFK? Was it a different type of bullet, perhaps lead and not the FMJ type
used for the MC rifle?
That would be a logical question by any ballistician.
And the logical answer would be that it was more likely a lead bullet
was fired from a different gun that the MC rifle proving conspiracy.
Chris
It would be more logical but not definitive proof of conspiracy. Since
the long picket fence was unguarded any number of deranged people could
have walked up there and fired a shot at the President for any number of
grievances. The reason why it is shocking the USSS, FBI, DPD, DCSD, US
Marshalls, et al, did not have at least one security guard up there
whether asked for or not, plus the fact it was a good place to see the
parade go by.
Easy to say in hindsight. Nobody knew there would be a shooting in Dealey
Plaza. There were countless places along the parade route where a sniper
could fire a shot from? Why would they think the area behind the GK needed
a guard any more than any of those other places. Nobody had unlimited
manpower. Resources were deployed where it was believed they would do the
most good. For example they had a cop on the overpass. They couldn't
possibly have guarded against every contingency.
It was the most obvious place for an easy shot on the entire route
and in the very heart of Dallas. The Sheriff department was one
block away with Deputies just standing around watching the
motorcade turn the corner. Just asking for one Deputy to
amble on down the plaza and stand in front of the fence
if nothing else so a drunk doesn't show up and take a
shot with his .22 cal bolt action rifle.
Supposedly, the sheriff's men that stood on the curb and watched the
motorcade go by were told to stay out of any protection jobs and mind
their business.
Chris
Who told you that? Mark
Anthony Marsh
2018-07-17 21:59:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by n***@gmail.com
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italian Army
designed the perfect projectile in compliance to this humane concept.
It was called the "humanitarian bullet" and the Italian General Staff should
be commended for developing this projectile in conformity with the ethics
hoped for by the Hague Convention.
Hmm. Then why was there a path of tiny particles through the skull of
JFK? Was it a different type of bullet, perhaps lead and not the FMJ type
used for the MC rifle?
That would be a logical question by any ballistician.
And the logical answer would be that it was more likely a lead bullet
was fired from a different gun that the MC rifle proving conspiracy.
Chris
It would be more logical but not definitive proof of conspiracy. Since
the long picket fence was unguarded any number of deranged people could
have walked up there and fired a shot at the President for any number of
grievances. The reason why it is shocking the USSS, FBI, DPD, DCSD, US
Marshalls, et al, did not have at least one security guard up there
whether asked for or not, plus the fact it was a good place to see the
parade go by.
Easy to say in hindsight. Nobody knew there would be a shooting in Dealey
Plaza. There were countless places along the parade route where a sniper
could fire a shot from? Why would they think the area behind the GK needed
a guard any more than any of those other places. Nobody had unlimited
manpower. Resources were deployed where it was believed they would do the
most good. For example they had a cop on the overpass. They couldn't
possibly have guarded against every contingency.
It was the most obvious place for an easy shot on the entire route
and in the very heart of Dallas. The Sheriff department was one
block away with Deputies just standing around watching the
motorcade turn the corner. Just asking for one Deputy to
amble on down the plaza and stand in front of the fence
if nothing else so a drunk doesn't show up and take a
shot with his .22 cal bolt action rifle.
Supposedly, the sheriff's men that stood on the curb and watched the
motorcade go by were told to stay out of any protection jobs and mind
their business.
Chris
Who told you that? Mark
He said "supposedly." Isn't that good enough for you?
Like when Trump says "Lots of people tell me . . ." but he can't name
anybody.
mainframetech
2018-07-18 00:27:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by n***@gmail.com
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italian Army
designed the perfect projectile in compliance to this humane concept.
It was called the "humanitarian bullet" and the Italian General Staff should
be commended for developing this projectile in conformity with the ethics
hoped for by the Hague Convention.
Hmm. Then why was there a path of tiny particles through the skull of
JFK? Was it a different type of bullet, perhaps lead and not the FMJ type
used for the MC rifle?
That would be a logical question by any ballistician.
And the logical answer would be that it was more likely a lead bullet
was fired from a different gun that the MC rifle proving conspiracy.
Chris
It would be more logical but not definitive proof of conspiracy. Since
the long picket fence was unguarded any number of deranged people could
have walked up there and fired a shot at the President for any number of
grievances. The reason why it is shocking the USSS, FBI, DPD, DCSD, US
Marshalls, et al, did not have at least one security guard up there
whether asked for or not, plus the fact it was a good place to see the
parade go by.
Easy to say in hindsight. Nobody knew there would be a shooting in Dealey
Plaza. There were countless places along the parade route where a sniper
could fire a shot from? Why would they think the area behind the GK needed
a guard any more than any of those other places. Nobody had unlimited
manpower. Resources were deployed where it was believed they would do the
most good. For example they had a cop on the overpass. They couldn't
possibly have guarded against every contingency.
It was the most obvious place for an easy shot on the entire route
and in the very heart of Dallas. The Sheriff department was one
block away with Deputies just standing around watching the
motorcade turn the corner. Just asking for one Deputy to
amble on down the plaza and stand in front of the fence
if nothing else so a drunk doesn't show up and take a
shot with his .22 cal bolt action rifle.
Supposedly, the sheriff's men that stood on the curb and watched the
motorcade go by were told to stay out of any protection jobs and mind
their business.
Chris
Who told you that? Mark
I believe it was part of a statement from Roger Craig.

Chris
Jason Burke
2018-07-16 22:41:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italian Army
designed the perfect projectile in compliance to this humane concept.
It was called the "humanitarian bullet" and the Italian General Staff should
be commended for developing this projectile in conformity with the ethics
hoped for by the Hague Convention.
Hmm. Then why was there a path of tiny particles through the skull of
JFK? Was it a different type of bullet, perhaps lead and not the FMJ type
used for the MC rifle?
That would be a logical question by any ballistician.
And the logical answer would be that it was more likely a lead bullet
was fired from a different gun that the MC rifle proving conspiracy.
Chris
It would be more logical but not definitive proof of conspiracy. Since
the long picket fence was unguarded any number of deranged people could
have walked up there and fired a shot at the President for any number of
grievances. The reason why it is shocking the USSS, FBI, DPD, DCSD, US
Marshalls, et al, did not have at least one security guard up there
whether asked for or not, plus the fact it was a good place to see the
parade go by.
Easy to say in hindsight. Nobody knew there would be a shooting in Dealey
Plaza. There were countless places along the parade route where a sniper
could fire a shot from? Why would they think the area behind the GK needed
a guard any more than any of those other places. Nobody had unlimited
manpower. Resources were deployed where it was believed they would do the
most good. For example they had a cop on the overpass. They couldn't
possibly have guarded against every contingency.
It was the most obvious place for an easy shot on the entire route
and in the very heart of Dallas. The Sheriff department was one
block away with Deputies just standing around watching the
motorcade turn the corner. Just asking for one Deputy to
amble on down the plaza and stand in front of the fence
if nothing else so a drunk doesn't show up and take a
shot with his .22 cal bolt action rifle.
Supposedly, the sheriff's men that stood on the curb and watched the
motorcade go by were told to stay out of any protection jobs and mind
their business.
Chris
"supposedly"
"maybe"
"I think"
"possibly"
etc. etc.

This is why you CT clowns never get anywhere. (Not that there's anywhere
for you to get TO.)
bigdog
2018-07-17 21:51:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jason Burke
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italian Army
designed the perfect projectile in compliance to this humane concept.
It was called the "humanitarian bullet" and the Italian General Staff should
be commended for developing this projectile in conformity with the ethics
hoped for by the Hague Convention.
Hmm. Then why was there a path of tiny particles through the skull of
JFK? Was it a different type of bullet, perhaps lead and not the FMJ type
used for the MC rifle?
That would be a logical question by any ballistician.
And the logical answer would be that it was more likely a lead bullet
was fired from a different gun that the MC rifle proving conspiracy.
Chris
It would be more logical but not definitive proof of conspiracy. Since
the long picket fence was unguarded any number of deranged people could
have walked up there and fired a shot at the President for any number of
grievances. The reason why it is shocking the USSS, FBI, DPD, DCSD, US
Marshalls, et al, did not have at least one security guard up there
whether asked for or not, plus the fact it was a good place to see the
parade go by.
Easy to say in hindsight. Nobody knew there would be a shooting in Dealey
Plaza. There were countless places along the parade route where a sniper
could fire a shot from? Why would they think the area behind the GK needed
a guard any more than any of those other places. Nobody had unlimited
manpower. Resources were deployed where it was believed they would do the
most good. For example they had a cop on the overpass. They couldn't
possibly have guarded against every contingency.
It was the most obvious place for an easy shot on the entire route
and in the very heart of Dallas. The Sheriff department was one
block away with Deputies just standing around watching the
motorcade turn the corner. Just asking for one Deputy to
amble on down the plaza and stand in front of the fence
if nothing else so a drunk doesn't show up and take a
shot with his .22 cal bolt action rifle.
Supposedly, the sheriff's men that stood on the curb and watched the
motorcade go by were told to stay out of any protection jobs and mind
their business.
Chris
"supposedly"
"maybe"
"I think"
"possibly"
etc. etc.
This is why you CT clowns never get anywhere. (Not that there's anywhere
for you to get TO.)
They keep revving their engines while their transmissions are stuck in
neutral.
mainframetech
2018-07-20 00:39:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by bigdog
Post by Jason Burke
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italian Army
designed the perfect projectile in compliance to this humane concept.
It was called the "humanitarian bullet" and the Italian General Staff should
be commended for developing this projectile in conformity with the ethics
hoped for by the Hague Convention.
Hmm. Then why was there a path of tiny particles through the skull of
JFK? Was it a different type of bullet, perhaps lead and not the FMJ type
used for the MC rifle?
That would be a logical question by any ballistician.
And the logical answer would be that it was more likely a lead bullet
was fired from a different gun that the MC rifle proving conspiracy.
Chris
It would be more logical but not definitive proof of conspiracy. Since
the long picket fence was unguarded any number of deranged people could
have walked up there and fired a shot at the President for any number of
grievances. The reason why it is shocking the USSS, FBI, DPD, DCSD, US
Marshalls, et al, did not have at least one security guard up there
whether asked for or not, plus the fact it was a good place to see the
parade go by.
Easy to say in hindsight. Nobody knew there would be a shooting in Dealey
Plaza. There were countless places along the parade route where a sniper
could fire a shot from? Why would they think the area behind the GK needed
a guard any more than any of those other places. Nobody had unlimited
manpower. Resources were deployed where it was believed they would do the
most good. For example they had a cop on the overpass. They couldn't
possibly have guarded against every contingency.
It was the most obvious place for an easy shot on the entire route
and in the very heart of Dallas. The Sheriff department was one
block away with Deputies just standing around watching the
motorcade turn the corner. Just asking for one Deputy to
amble on down the plaza and stand in front of the fence
if nothing else so a drunk doesn't show up and take a
shot with his .22 cal bolt action rifle.
Supposedly, the sheriff's men that stood on the curb and watched the
motorcade go by were told to stay out of any protection jobs and mind
their business.
Chris
"supposedly"
"maybe"
"I think"
"possibly"
etc. etc.
This is why you CT clowns never get anywhere. (Not that there's anywhere
for you to get TO.)
They keep revving their engines while their transmissions are stuck in
neutral.
The LN clowns of course, haven't been able to start their engines at
all!

Chris
bigdog
2018-07-20 22:39:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by mainframetech
Post by bigdog
Post by Jason Burke
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italian Army
designed the perfect projectile in compliance to this humane concept.
It was called the "humanitarian bullet" and the Italian General Staff should
be commended for developing this projectile in conformity with the ethics
hoped for by the Hague Convention.
Hmm. Then why was there a path of tiny particles through the skull of
JFK? Was it a different type of bullet, perhaps lead and not the FMJ type
used for the MC rifle?
That would be a logical question by any ballistician.
And the logical answer would be that it was more likely a lead bullet
was fired from a different gun that the MC rifle proving conspiracy.
Chris
It would be more logical but not definitive proof of conspiracy. Since
the long picket fence was unguarded any number of deranged people could
have walked up there and fired a shot at the President for any number of
grievances. The reason why it is shocking the USSS, FBI, DPD, DCSD, US
Marshalls, et al, did not have at least one security guard up there
whether asked for or not, plus the fact it was a good place to see the
parade go by.
Easy to say in hindsight. Nobody knew there would be a shooting in Dealey
Plaza. There were countless places along the parade route where a sniper
could fire a shot from? Why would they think the area behind the GK needed
a guard any more than any of those other places. Nobody had unlimited
manpower. Resources were deployed where it was believed they would do the
most good. For example they had a cop on the overpass. They couldn't
possibly have guarded against every contingency.
It was the most obvious place for an easy shot on the entire route
and in the very heart of Dallas. The Sheriff department was one
block away with Deputies just standing around watching the
motorcade turn the corner. Just asking for one Deputy to
amble on down the plaza and stand in front of the fence
if nothing else so a drunk doesn't show up and take a
shot with his .22 cal bolt action rifle.
Supposedly, the sheriff's men that stood on the curb and watched the
motorcade go by were told to stay out of any protection jobs and mind
their business.
Chris
"supposedly"
"maybe"
"I think"
"possibly"
etc. etc.
This is why you CT clowns never get anywhere. (Not that there's anywhere
for you to get TO.)
They keep revving their engines while their transmissions are stuck in
neutral.
The LN clowns of course, haven't been able to start their engines at
all!
We don't need to. We found the truth a long time ago. Our cars are parked
in the garage while you're still wandering aimlessly.
claviger
2018-07-22 21:52:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by bigdog
Post by mainframetech
Post by bigdog
Post by Jason Burke
This is why you CT clowns never get anywhere.
(Not that there's anywhere for you to get TO.)
They keep revving their engines while their transmissions
are stuck in neutral.
The LN clowns of course, haven't been able to start their engines
at all!
We don't need to. We found the truth a long time ago. Our cars are
parked in the garage while you're still wandering aimlessly.
And running out of gas.
Anthony Marsh
2018-07-25 01:16:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by bigdog
Post by mainframetech
Post by bigdog
Post by Jason Burke
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italian Army
designed the perfect projectile in compliance to this humane concept.
It was called the "humanitarian bullet" and the Italian General Staff should
be commended for developing this projectile in conformity with the ethics
hoped for by the Hague Convention.
Hmm. Then why was there a path of tiny particles through the skull of
JFK? Was it a different type of bullet, perhaps lead and not the FMJ type
used for the MC rifle?
That would be a logical question by any ballistician.
And the logical answer would be that it was more likely a lead bullet
was fired from a different gun that the MC rifle proving conspiracy.
Chris
It would be more logical but not definitive proof of conspiracy. Since
the long picket fence was unguarded any number of deranged people could
have walked up there and fired a shot at the President for any number of
grievances. The reason why it is shocking the USSS, FBI, DPD, DCSD, US
Marshalls, et al, did not have at least one security guard up there
whether asked for or not, plus the fact it was a good place to see the
parade go by.
Easy to say in hindsight. Nobody knew there would be a shooting in Dealey
Plaza. There were countless places along the parade route where a sniper
could fire a shot from? Why would they think the area behind the GK needed
a guard any more than any of those other places. Nobody had unlimited
manpower. Resources were deployed where it was believed they would do the
most good. For example they had a cop on the overpass. They couldn't
possibly have guarded against every contingency.
It was the most obvious place for an easy shot on the entire route
and in the very heart of Dallas. The Sheriff department was one
block away with Deputies just standing around watching the
motorcade turn the corner. Just asking for one Deputy to
amble on down the plaza and stand in front of the fence
if nothing else so a drunk doesn't show up and take a
shot with his .22 cal bolt action rifle.
Supposedly, the sheriff's men that stood on the curb and watched the
motorcade go by were told to stay out of any protection jobs and mind
their business.
Chris
"supposedly"
"maybe"
"I think"
"possibly"
etc. etc.
This is why you CT clowns never get anywhere. (Not that there's anywhere
for you to get TO.)
They keep revving their engines while their transmissions are stuck in
neutral.
The LN clowns of course, haven't been able to start their engines at
all!
We don't need to. We found the truth a long time ago. Our cars are parked
in the garage while you're still wandering aimlessly.
You don't get out much, do you?

Anthony Marsh
2018-07-17 21:59:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jason Burke
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines.?? A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in
an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting.?? The
Italian Army
designed the perfect projectile in compliance to this humane concept.
It was called the "humanitarian bullet" and the Italian
General Staff should
be commended for developing this projectile in conformity with the ethics
hoped for by the Hague Convention.
???????? Hmm.?? Then why was there a path of tiny particles through
the skull of
JFK??? Was it a different type of bullet, perhaps lead and not
the FMJ type
used for the MC rifle?
That would be a logical question by any ballistician.
And the logical answer would be that it was more likely a lead bullet
was fired from a different gun that the MC rifle proving conspiracy.
Chris
It would be more logical but not definitive proof of conspiracy.
Since
the long picket fence was unguarded any number of deranged people could
have walked up there and fired a shot at the President for any number of
grievances. The reason why it is shocking the USSS, FBI, DPD, DCSD, US
Marshalls, et al, did not have at least one security guard up there
whether asked for or not, plus the fact it was a good place to see the
parade go by.
Easy to say in hindsight. Nobody knew there would be a shooting in Dealey
Plaza. There were countless places along the parade route where a sniper
could fire a shot from? Why would they think the area behind the GK needed
a guard any more than any of those other places. Nobody had unlimited
manpower. Resources were deployed where it was believed they would do the
most good. For example they had a cop on the overpass. They couldn't
possibly have guarded against every contingency.
It was the most obvious place for an easy shot on the entire route
and in the very heart of Dallas.?? The Sheriff department was one
block away with Deputies just standing around watching the
motorcade turn the corner.?? Just asking for one Deputy to
amble on down the plaza and stand in front of the fence
if nothing else so a drunk doesn't show up and take a
shot with his .22 cal bolt action rifle.
?????? Supposedly, the sheriff's men that stood on the curb and watched the
motorcade go by were told to stay out of any protection jobs and mind
their business.
Chris
"supposedly"
"maybe"
"I think"
"possibly"
etc. etc.
This is why you CT clowns never get anywhere. (Not that there's anywhere
for you to get TO.)
I didn't say "supposedly" the Zapruder film is authentic. I said it is a
FACT that the Zapruder film is authentic and I proved it. What did you
ever prove? You can't even prove who you really are. You can't remember if
today you are supposed to be JASON or PAUL.
bigdog
2018-07-17 17:20:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italian Army
designed the perfect projectile in compliance to this humane concept.
It was called the "humanitarian bullet" and the Italian General Staff should
be commended for developing this projectile in conformity with the ethics
hoped for by the Hague Convention.
Hmm. Then why was there a path of tiny particles through the skull of
JFK? Was it a different type of bullet, perhaps lead and not the FMJ type
used for the MC rifle?
That would be a logical question by any ballistician.
And the logical answer would be that it was more likely a lead bullet
was fired from a different gun that the MC rifle proving conspiracy.
Chris
It would be more logical but not definitive proof of conspiracy. Since
the long picket fence was unguarded any number of deranged people could
have walked up there and fired a shot at the President for any number of
grievances. The reason why it is shocking the USSS, FBI, DPD, DCSD, US
Marshalls, et al, did not have at least one security guard up there
whether asked for or not, plus the fact it was a good place to see the
parade go by.
Easy to say in hindsight. Nobody knew there would be a shooting in Dealey
Plaza. There were countless places along the parade route where a sniper
could fire a shot from? Why would they think the area behind the GK needed
a guard any more than any of those other places. Nobody had unlimited
manpower. Resources were deployed where it was believed they would do the
most good. For example they had a cop on the overpass. They couldn't
possibly have guarded against every contingency.
It was the most obvious place for an easy shot on the entire route
and in the very heart of Dallas. The Sheriff department was one
block away with Deputies just standing around watching the
motorcade turn the corner. Just asking for one Deputy to
amble on down the plaza and stand in front of the fence
if nothing else so a drunk doesn't show up and take a
shot with his .22 cal bolt action rifle.
Supposedly, the sheriff's men that stood on the curb and watched the
motorcade go by were told to stay out of any protection jobs and mind
their business.
Cite?
claviger
2018-07-17 21:07:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italian Army
designed the perfect projectile in compliance to this humane concept.
It was called the "humanitarian bullet" and the Italian General Staff should
be commended for developing this projectile in conformity with the ethics
hoped for by the Hague Convention.
Hmm. Then why was there a path of tiny particles through the skull of
JFK? Was it a different type of bullet, perhaps lead and not the FMJ type
used for the MC rifle?
That would be a logical question by any ballistician.
And the logical answer would be that it was more likely a lead bullet
was fired from a different gun that the MC rifle proving conspiracy.
Chris
It would be more logical but not definitive proof of conspiracy. Since
the long picket fence was unguarded any number of deranged people could
have walked up there and fired a shot at the President for any number of
grievances. The reason why it is shocking the USSS, FBI, DPD, DCSD, US
Marshalls, et al, did not have at least one security guard up there
whether asked for or not, plus the fact it was a good place to see the
parade go by.
Easy to say in hindsight. Nobody knew there would be a shooting in Dealey
Plaza. There were countless places along the parade route where a sniper
could fire a shot from? Why would they think the area behind the GK needed
a guard any more than any of those other places. Nobody had unlimited
manpower. Resources were deployed where it was believed they would do the
most good. For example they had a cop on the overpass. They couldn't
possibly have guarded against every contingency.
It was the most obvious place for an easy shot on the entire route
and in the very heart of Dallas. The Sheriff department was one
block away with Deputies just standing around watching the
motorcade turn the corner. Just asking for one Deputy to
amble on down the plaza and stand in front of the fence
if nothing else so a drunk doesn't show up and take a
shot with his .22 cal bolt action rifle.
Supposedly, the sheriff's men that stood on the curb and watched the
motorcade go by were told to stay out of any protection jobs and mind
their business.
Chris
Sadly that might be true. Both the Police Chief and Sheriff were nettled
by the condescending attitude of the Federal authorities. They both made a
decision to back off and let the Feds run the whole show. While I can
understand their annoyance there were still some things they could do to
fill in the cracks, especially in Dealey Plaza. That Big D Pride should've
kicked in to overcome being rubbed the wrong way.
Anthony Marsh
2018-07-19 01:52:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italian Army
designed the perfect projectile in compliance to this humane concept.
It was called the "humanitarian bullet" and the Italian General Staff should
be commended for developing this projectile in conformity with the ethics
hoped for by the Hague Convention.
Hmm. Then why was there a path of tiny particles through the skull of
JFK? Was it a different type of bullet, perhaps lead and not the FMJ type
used for the MC rifle?
That would be a logical question by any ballistician.
And the logical answer would be that it was more likely a lead bullet
was fired from a different gun that the MC rifle proving conspiracy.
Chris
It would be more logical but not definitive proof of conspiracy. Since
the long picket fence was unguarded any number of deranged people could
have walked up there and fired a shot at the President for any number of
grievances. The reason why it is shocking the USSS, FBI, DPD, DCSD, US
Marshalls, et al, did not have at least one security guard up there
whether asked for or not, plus the fact it was a good place to see the
parade go by.
Easy to say in hindsight. Nobody knew there would be a shooting in Dealey
Plaza. There were countless places along the parade route where a sniper
could fire a shot from? Why would they think the area behind the GK needed
a guard any more than any of those other places. Nobody had unlimited
manpower. Resources were deployed where it was believed they would do the
most good. For example they had a cop on the overpass. They couldn't
possibly have guarded against every contingency.
It was the most obvious place for an easy shot on the entire route
and in the very heart of Dallas. The Sheriff department was one
block away with Deputies just standing around watching the
motorcade turn the corner. Just asking for one Deputy to
amble on down the plaza and stand in front of the fence
if nothing else so a drunk doesn't show up and take a
shot with his .22 cal bolt action rifle.
Supposedly, the sheriff's men that stood on the curb and watched the
motorcade go by were told to stay out of any protection jobs and mind
their business.
Chris
Sadly that might be true. Both the Police Chief and Sheriff were nettled
by the condescending attitude of the Federal authorities. They both made a
decision to back off and let the Feds run the whole show. While I can
understand their annoyance there were still some things they could do to
fill in the cracks, especially in Dealey Plaza. That Big D Pride should've
kicked in to overcome being rubbed the wrong way.
No, they fought back by starting a rumor that Osald had been an FBI
informant.
mainframetech
2018-07-20 00:39:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italian Army
designed the perfect projectile in compliance to this humane concept.
It was called the "humanitarian bullet" and the Italian General Staff should
be commended for developing this projectile in conformity with the ethics
hoped for by the Hague Convention.
Hmm. Then why was there a path of tiny particles through the skull of
JFK? Was it a different type of bullet, perhaps lead and not the FMJ type
used for the MC rifle?
That would be a logical question by any ballistician.
And the logical answer would be that it was more likely a lead bullet
was fired from a different gun that the MC rifle proving conspiracy.
Chris
It would be more logical but not definitive proof of conspiracy. Since
the long picket fence was unguarded any number of deranged people could
have walked up there and fired a shot at the President for any number of
grievances. The reason why it is shocking the USSS, FBI, DPD, DCSD, US
Marshalls, et al, did not have at least one security guard up there
whether asked for or not, plus the fact it was a good place to see the
parade go by.
Easy to say in hindsight. Nobody knew there would be a shooting in Dealey
Plaza. There were countless places along the parade route where a sniper
could fire a shot from? Why would they think the area behind the GK needed
a guard any more than any of those other places. Nobody had unlimited
manpower. Resources were deployed where it was believed they would do the
most good. For example they had a cop on the overpass. They couldn't
possibly have guarded against every contingency.
It was the most obvious place for an easy shot on the entire route
and in the very heart of Dallas. The Sheriff department was one
block away with Deputies just standing around watching the
motorcade turn the corner. Just asking for one Deputy to
amble on down the plaza and stand in front of the fence
if nothing else so a drunk doesn't show up and take a
shot with his .22 cal bolt action rifle.
Supposedly, the sheriff's men that stood on the curb and watched the
motorcade go by were told to stay out of any protection jobs and mind
their business.
Chris
Sadly that might be true. Both the Police Chief and Sheriff were nettled
by the condescending attitude of the Federal authorities. They both made a
decision to back off and let the Feds run the whole show. While I can
understand their annoyance there were still some things they could do to
fill in the cracks, especially in Dealey Plaza. That Big D Pride should've
kicked in to overcome being rubbed the wrong way.
Don't know who's statement that is, but I don't think it's mine.

Chris
Anthony Marsh
2018-07-17 21:11:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italian Army
designed the perfect projectile in compliance to this humane concept.
It was called the "humanitarian bullet" and the Italian General Staff should
be commended for developing this projectile in conformity with the ethics
hoped for by the Hague Convention.
Hmm. Then why was there a path of tiny particles through the skull of
JFK? Was it a different type of bullet, perhaps lead and not the FMJ type
used for the MC rifle?
That would be a logical question by any ballistician.
And the logical answer would be that it was more likely a lead bullet
was fired from a different gun that the MC rifle proving conspiracy.
Chris
It would be more logical but not definitive proof of conspiracy. Since
the long picket fence was unguarded any number of deranged people could
have walked up there and fired a shot at the President for any number of
grievances. The reason why it is shocking the USSS, FBI, DPD, DCSD, US
Marshalls, et al, did not have at least one security guard up there
whether asked for or not, plus the fact it was a good place to see the
parade go by.
Easy to say in hindsight. Nobody knew there would be a shooting in Dealey
Plaza. There were countless places along the parade route where a sniper
could fire a shot from? Why would they think the area behind the GK needed
a guard any more than any of those other places. Nobody had unlimited
manpower. Resources were deployed where it was believed they would do the
most good. For example they had a cop on the overpass. They couldn't
possibly have guarded against every contingency.
It was the most obvious place for an easy shot on the entire route
and in the very heart of Dallas. The Sheriff department was one
block away with Deputies just standing around watching the
motorcade turn the corner. Just asking for one Deputy to
amble on down the plaza and stand in front of the fence
if nothing else so a drunk doesn't show up and take a
shot with his .22 cal bolt action rifle.
Supposedly, the sheriff's men that stood on the curb and watched the
motorcade go by were told to stay out of any protection jobs and mind
their business.
Chris
SHOW me these men. Where they in uniforms or just plain clothes like suits?
Was one carrying a baby?
Anthony Marsh
2018-07-09 19:40:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italian Army
designed the perfect projectile in compliance to this humane concept.
It was called the "humanitarian bullet" and the Italian General Staff should
be commended for developing this projectile in conformity with the ethics
hoped for by the Hague Convention.
Hmm. Then why was there a path of tiny particles through the skull of
JFK? Was it a different type of bullet, perhaps lead and not the FMJ type
used for the MC rifle?
That would be a logical question by any ballistician.
It's already been answered by an expert. Non-jacketed lead bullet.
claviger
2018-07-10 19:28:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italian Army
designed the perfect projectile in compliance to this humane concept.
It was called the "humanitarian bullet" and the Italian General Staff should
be commended for developing this projectile in conformity with the ethics
hoped for by the Hague Convention.
Hmm. Then why was there a path of tiny particles through the skull of
JFK? Was it a different type of bullet, perhaps lead and not the FMJ type
used for the MC rifle?
That would be a logical question by any ballistician.
It's already been answered by an expert. Non-jacketed lead bullet.
So a sniper used non-military bullets? You said all 3 of your snipers
used Carcano ammo.
Anthony Marsh
2018-07-11 13:33:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italian Army
designed the perfect projectile in compliance to this humane concept.
It was called the "humanitarian bullet" and the Italian General Staff should
be commended for developing this projectile in conformity with the ethics
hoped for by the Hague Convention.
Hmm. Then why was there a path of tiny particles through the skull of
JFK? Was it a different type of bullet, perhaps lead and not the FMJ type
used for the MC rifle?
That would be a logical question by any ballistician.
It's already been answered by an expert. Non-jacketed lead bullet.
So a sniper used non-military bullets? You said all 3 of your snipers
used Carcano ammo.
Sometimes there are different types of bullets that they use.
Snipers on their own jobs are not required to use only military ammo.
There were several types of bullets available. And the CIA modified one
into an explosive bullet to use on Castro.
Anthony Marsh
2018-07-05 23:15:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italians
OMG, what the Hell are you doing? You just single-handedly destroyed the
SBT. It says that Oswald's bullet does not tumble. How can you guys have a
SBT withOUT a tumbling bullet?
Post by claviger
designed the perfect projectile in compliance. It was called the
"humanitarian bullet". The Italian Army should be commended for developing
this projectile in ethical conformity with the ethics of humane warfare.
The AR-15 .223/5.56mm was designed to punch several small holes in an
enemy soldier at high velocity in bursts to immediately disable the enemy
soldier. Extreme velocity made these smaller bullets tumble when hitting
human targets which often caused devastating wounds with an explosive
effect. These bullets are considered unstable and some critics want them
designated as frangible bullets therefore prohibited by NATO members for
military use under the Hague Convention agreements. The USA was not a
signatory but pressure groups are demanding these bullets be replaced by
more stable projectiles. The US Army is now considering a .26 cal/ 6.5mm
bullet to replace the current M16 ammunition.
Yeah, still no proof that the US designed the bullet to tumble.
Post by claviger
New rifle, bigger bullets: Inside the Army's plan to ditch the M4 and 5.56
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2017/05/07/new-rifle-bigger
-bullets-inside-the-army-s-plan-to-ditch-the-m4-and-5-56/
So, bigger means better?
claviger
2018-07-07 21:44:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italians
OMG, what the Hell are you doing? You just single-handedly destroyed the
SBT. It says that Oswald's bullet does not tumble. How can you guys have
a SBT withOUT a tumbling bullet?
The bullet did not tumble as it passed all the way through the primary
target. After making exit the loss of velocity slowed the spinning
projectile causing destabilization which made the bullet yaw into the next
passenger.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
designed the perfect projectile in compliance. It was called the
"humanitarian bullet". The Italian Army should be commended for developing
this projectile in ethical conformity with the ethics of humane warfare.
The AR-15 .223/5.56mm was designed to punch several small holes in an
enemy soldier at high velocity in bursts to immediately disable the enemy
soldier. Extreme velocity made these smaller bullets tumble when hitting
human targets which often caused devastating wounds with an explosive
effect. These bullets are considered unstable and some critics want them
designated as frangible bullets therefore prohibited by NATO members for
military use under the Hague Convention agreements. The USA was not a
signatory but pressure groups are demanding these bullets be replaced by
more stable projectiles. The US Army is now considering a .26 cal/ 6.5mm
bullet to replace the current M16 ammunition.
Yeah, still no proof that the US designed the bullet to tumble.
I don't think anyone planned it that way, in fact they were puzzled by the
explosive effect the original AR15 had on enemy soldiers in Vietnam.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
New rifle, bigger bullets: Inside the Army's plan to ditch the M4 and 5.56
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2017/05/07/new-rifle-bigger
-bullets-inside-the-army-s-plan-to-ditch-the-m4-and-5-56/
So, bigger means better?
The combination of velocity, spin rate, and a larger bullet make for less
gruesome wounds on enemy soldiers than the current M16. A basic military
philosophy is wounded soldiers use up 3x more manpower resources than a
dead enemy soldier.
mainframetech
2018-07-09 14:33:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italians
OMG, what the Hell are you doing? You just single-handedly destroyed the
SBT. It says that Oswald's bullet does not tumble. How can you guys have
a SBT withOUT a tumbling bullet?
The bullet did not tumble as it passed all the way through the primary
target. After making exit the loss of velocity slowed the spinning
projectile causing destabilization which made the bullet yaw into the next
passenger.
And what if the members of the autopsy team said the back wound bullet
never left the body of JFK? Yep, that's what a couple of them said!
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
designed the perfect projectile in compliance. It was called the
"humanitarian bullet". The Italian Army should be commended for developing
this projectile in ethical conformity with the ethics of humane warfare.
The AR-15 .223/5.56mm was designed to punch several small holes in an
enemy soldier at high velocity in bursts to immediately disable the enemy
soldier. Extreme velocity made these smaller bullets tumble when hitting
human targets which often caused devastating wounds with an explosive
effect. These bullets are considered unstable and some critics want them
designated as frangible bullets therefore prohibited by NATO members for
military use under the Hague Convention agreements. The USA was not a
signatory but pressure groups are demanding these bullets be replaced by
more stable projectiles. The US Army is now considering a .26 cal/ 6.5mm
bullet to replace the current M16 ammunition.
Yeah, still no proof that the US designed the bullet to tumble.
I don't think anyone planned it that way, in fact they were puzzled by the
explosive effect the original AR15 had on enemy soldiers in Vietnam.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
New rifle, bigger bullets: Inside the Army's plan to ditch the M4 and 5.56
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2017/05/07/new-rifle-bigger
-bullets-inside-the-army-s-plan-to-ditch-the-m4-and-5-56/
So, bigger means better?
The combination of velocity, spin rate, and a larger bullet make for less
gruesome wounds on enemy soldiers than the current M16. A basic military
philosophy is wounded soldiers use up 3x more manpower resources than a
dead enemy soldier.
claviger
2018-07-10 03:37:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italians
OMG, what the Hell are you doing? You just single-handedly destroyed the
SBT. It says that Oswald's bullet does not tumble. How can you guys have
a SBT withOUT a tumbling bullet?
The bullet did not tumble as it passed all the way through the primary
target. After making exit the loss of velocity slowed the spinning
projectile causing destabilization which made the bullet yaw into the next
passenger.
And what if the members of the autopsy team said the back wound bullet
never left the body of JFK? Yep, that's what a couple of them said!
That would be a kindergarten question on this Newsgroup. It is common
knowledge the Pathology team was unaware the hole in the throat for the
breathing tube was a bullet wound. The ER doctors had failed to pass on
that medical information to the autopsy team.
mainframetech
2018-07-10 22:44:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italians
OMG, what the Hell are you doing? You just single-handedly destroyed the
SBT. It says that Oswald's bullet does not tumble. How can you guys have
a SBT withOUT a tumbling bullet?
The bullet did not tumble as it passed all the way through the primary
target. After making exit the loss of velocity slowed the spinning
projectile causing destabilization which made the bullet yaw into the next
passenger.
And what if the members of the autopsy team said the back wound bullet
never left the body of JFK? Yep, that's what a couple of them said!
That would be a kindergarten question on this Newsgroup. It is common
knowledge the Pathology team was unaware the hole in the throat for the
breathing tube was a bullet wound. The ER doctors had failed to pass on
that medical information to the autopsy team.
It's a shame what you don't know about this case! Here's a well
thought of doctor speaking:



"After a telephone interview with the autopsy radiologist, John Ebersole,
MD, David Mantik, MD, Ph.D. reported that, “Ebersole had told me
during our first conversation that they had learned about the throat wound
from Dallas that night. In prior conversations, he had also stated that he
had learned of the projectile wound to the throat during the autopsy
– that, in fact, he had stopped taking X-rays after that
intelligence had arrived, because the mystery of the exit wound –
corresponding to the back entrance wound – was
solved.”[51] Moreover, Ebersole told the HSCA that the two
hospitals had communicated by phone during the a= utopsy."

From: https://www.history-matters.com/essays/jfkmed/How5Investigations/How5InvestigationsGotItWrong_1a.htm

Also:

"Author Harrison Livingstone reported another Parkland source for
nighttime contact between the morgue and Dallas. In a 1991 interview,
Livingstone said that Parkland Hospital nurse Audrey Bell told him,
“Dr. Perry was up all night. He came into my office the next day
and sat down and looked terrible, having not slept. I never saw anybody
look so dejected! They called him from Bethesda two or three times in the
middle of the night to try to get him to change the entrance wound in the
throat to an exit wound.”

From: https://www.history-matters.com/essays/jfkmed/How5Investigations/How5InvestigationsGotItWrong_1a.htm


Humes knew about the throat wound being a bullet wound. He lied that
he learned it the next day. But he got caught on a few lies. Like where
the bullet hole was in the BOH.

You've given a perfect example of repeated statements making people
believe them. You said it was "common knowledge" that the pathologists
didn't know about the throat wound being a bullet entrance wound. I've
shown you some of the proofs that say Humes and the others did know.

Chris
bigdog
2018-07-12 12:52:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italians
OMG, what the Hell are you doing? You just single-handedly destroyed the
SBT. It says that Oswald's bullet does not tumble. How can you guys have
a SBT withOUT a tumbling bullet?
The bullet did not tumble as it passed all the way through the primary
target. After making exit the loss of velocity slowed the spinning
projectile causing destabilization which made the bullet yaw into the next
passenger.
And what if the members of the autopsy team said the back wound bullet
never left the body of JFK? Yep, that's what a couple of them said!
That would be a kindergarten question on this Newsgroup. It is common
knowledge the Pathology team was unaware the hole in the throat for the
breathing tube was a bullet wound. The ER doctors had failed to pass on
that medical information to the autopsy team.
It's a shame what you don't know about this case! Here's a well
http://youtu.be/ma8aqkr-0Tg
You'll believe anything. The only information Livingston could have known
was what he heard on TV. Dr. Perry's interview wasn't broadcast live and
he gave only sketchy information about the throat wound. He didn't divulge
that a tracheostomy incision had been performed over the bullet wound so
Livingston, even if he had learned of what was divulged at the presser
couldn't have relayed that information to Humes. If Livingston had told
Humes that there was an entrance wound in the throat, Humes would have
taken one look at the body and dismissed what Livingston had told him. I
researching this, I found a transcript of the presser. This is what Dr.
Clark had to say regarding the head wound.

QUESTION -- "Doctor, can you describe the course of the wound through the
head"?

DR. CLARK -- "Principally on his right side, towards the right side"...

Later he said:

DR. CLARK -- "The head wound could have been either the exit wound from
the neck or it could have been a tangential wound, as it was simply a
large, gaping loss of tissue."

Taking these two statements together, he was describing a large, gaping
wound on the right side of JFK's head. This is perfectly compatible with
what the Z-film shows, what the AR indicated, and what the review panels
concluded. You can't use your alleged clandestine surgery to explain this
description because that wouldn't happen until the body got Bethesda.

http://www.orwelltoday.com/jfkdocperrypressconference.shtml
Post by mainframetech
"After a telephone interview with the autopsy radiologist, John Ebersole,
MD, David Mantik, MD, Ph.D. reported that, “Ebersole had told me
during our first conversation that they had learned about the throat wound
from Dallas that night. In prior conversations, he had also stated that he
had learned of the projectile wound to the throat during the autopsy
– that, in fact, he had stopped taking X-rays after that
intelligence had arrived, because the mystery of the exit wound –
corresponding to the back entrance wound – was
solved.”[51] Moreover, Ebersole told the HSCA that the two
hospitals had communicated by phone during the a utopsy."
From: https://www.history-matters.com/essays/jfkmed/How5Investigations/How5InvestigationsGotItWrong_1a.htm
"Author Harrison Livingstone reported another Parkland source for
nighttime contact between the morgue and Dallas. In a 1991 interview,
Livingstone said that Parkland Hospital nurse Audrey Bell told him,
“Dr. Perry was up all night. He came into my office the next day
and sat down and looked terrible, having not slept. I never saw anybody
look so dejected! They called him from Bethesda two or three times in the
middle of the night to try to get him to change the entrance wound in the
throat to an exit wound.”
From: https://www.history-matters.com/essays/jfkmed/How5Investigations/How5InvestigationsGotItWrong_1a.htm
Humes knew about the throat wound being a bullet wound. He lied that
he learned it the next day. But he got caught on a few lies. Like where
the bullet hole was in the BOH.
You've given a perfect example of repeated statements making people
believe them. You said it was "common knowledge" that the pathologists
didn't know about the throat wound being a bullet entrance wound. I've
shown you some of the proofs that say Humes and the others did know.
The Bethesda team did not know about the throat wound at the start of the
autopsy. They would learn that later. There were communications between
Bethesda and Parkland both during and after the autopsy and we don't know
at what point the Bethesda team received this information from Parkland.
What seems clear to me they already suspected this when they discovered
the bullet track and tissue damage but needed confirmation from
Parkland.
claviger
2018-07-12 12:57:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italians
OMG, what the Hell are you doing? You just single-handedly destroyed the
SBT. It says that Oswald's bullet does not tumble. How can you guys have
a SBT withOUT a tumbling bullet?
The bullet did not tumble as it passed all the way through the primary
target. After making exit the loss of velocity slowed the spinning
projectile causing destabilization which made the bullet yaw into the next
passenger.
And what if the members of the autopsy team said the back wound bullet
never left the body of JFK? Yep, that's what a couple of them said!
That would be a kindergarten question on this Newsgroup. It is common
knowledge the Pathology team was unaware the hole in the throat for the
breathing tube was a bullet wound. The ER doctors had failed to pass on
that medical information to the autopsy team.
It's a shame what you don't know about this case! Here's a well
http://youtu.be/ma8aqkr-0Tg
"After a telephone interview with the autopsy radiologist, John Ebersole,
MD, David Mantik, MD, Ph.D. reported that, “Ebersole had told me
during our first conversation that they had learned about the throat wound
from Dallas that night. In prior conversations, he had also stated that he
had learned of the projectile wound to the throat during the autopsy
– that, in fact, he had stopped taking X-rays after that
intelligence had arrived, because the mystery of the exit wound –
corresponding to the back entrance wound – was
solved.”[51] Moreover, Ebersole told the HSCA that the two
hospitals had communicated by phone during the a utopsy."
From: https://www.history-matters.com/essays/jfkmed/How5Investigations/How5InvestigationsGotItWrong_1a.htm
"Author Harrison Livingstone reported another Parkland source for
nighttime contact between the morgue and Dallas. In a 1991 interview,
Livingstone said that Parkland Hospital nurse Audrey Bell told him,
“Dr. Perry was up all night. He came into my office the next day
and sat down and looked terrible, having not slept. I never saw anybody
look so dejected! They called him from Bethesda two or three times in the
middle of the night to try to get him to change the entrance wound in the
throat to an exit wound.”
From: https://www.history-matters.com/essays/jfkmed/How5Investigations/How5InvestigationsGotItWrong_1a.htm
Humes knew about the throat wound being a bullet wound. He lied that
he learned it the next day. But he got caught on a few lies. Like where
the bullet hole was in the BOH.
You've given a perfect example of repeated statements making people
believe them. You said it was "common knowledge" that the pathologists
didn't know about the throat wound being a bullet entrance wound. I've
shown you some of the proofs that say Humes and the others did know.
Chris
Alphabetical list of witnesses and testimony
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/wit.htm
Boswell, Thorton J. WC Testimony, ARRB Deposition
Humes, James J. WC Testimony, HSC Testimony, ARRB Deposition
Ebersole, John H. HSCA Deposition
Finck, Pierre A. WC Testimony, HSCA Deposition, Shaw trial testimony,

John F. Kennedy autopsy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_autopsy

PDF]JFK Autopsy Report - Appendix 9 to the Warren Commission Report
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/warren-commission.../appendix-09.pdf
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/appendix-09.pdf

Doctors Affirm Kennedy Autopsy Report - The New York Times
https://www.nytimes.com/1992/05/20/us/doctors-affirm-kennedy-autopsy-report.html
May 20, 1992 - The autopsy results have been independently confirmed several
times.
.... An article on May 20 about the autopsy of President John F. Kennedy ...
Anthony Marsh
2018-07-12 02:11:27 UTC
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Post by claviger
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italians
OMG, what the Hell are you doing? You just single-handedly destroyed the
SBT. It says that Oswald's bullet does not tumble. How can you guys have
a SBT withOUT a tumbling bullet?
The bullet did not tumble as it passed all the way through the primary
target. After making exit the loss of velocity slowed the spinning
projectile causing destabilization which made the bullet yaw into the next
passenger.
And what if the members of the autopsy team said the back wound bullet
never left the body of JFK? Yep, that's what a couple of them said!
That would be a kindergarten question on this Newsgroup. It is common
knowledge the Pathology team was unaware the hole in the throat for the
breathing tube was a bullet wound. The ER doctors had failed to pass on
that medical information to the autopsy team.
We're not talking about that, silly.
It could have exited elsewhere. They thought it didn't exit because it
was an ICE BULLET. Howe childish is that? Pre-school?
bigdog
2018-07-10 14:18:25 UTC
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Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italians
OMG, what the Hell are you doing? You just single-handedly destroyed the
SBT. It says that Oswald's bullet does not tumble. How can you guys have
a SBT withOUT a tumbling bullet?
The bullet did not tumble as it passed all the way through the primary
target. After making exit the loss of velocity slowed the spinning
projectile causing destabilization which made the bullet yaw into the next
passenger.
And what if the members of the autopsy team said the back wound bullet
never left the body of JFK? Yep, that's what a couple of them said!
A shame you can't find a single medical examiner who said that.
Anthony Marsh
2018-07-11 13:36:14 UTC
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Post by bigdog
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italians
OMG, what the Hell are you doing? You just single-handedly destroyed the
SBT. It says that Oswald's bullet does not tumble. How can you guys have
a SBT withOUT a tumbling bullet?
The bullet did not tumble as it passed all the way through the primary
target. After making exit the loss of velocity slowed the spinning
projectile causing destabilization which made the bullet yaw into the next
passenger.
And what if the members of the autopsy team said the back wound bullet
never left the body of JFK? Yep, that's what a couple of them said!
A shame you can't find a single medical examiner who said that.
OK, so all we have is Humes. Who you got?
mainframetech
2018-07-12 02:47:13 UTC
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Post by bigdog
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italians
OMG, what the Hell are you doing? You just single-handedly destroyed the
SBT. It says that Oswald's bullet does not tumble. How can you guys have
a SBT withOUT a tumbling bullet?
The bullet did not tumble as it passed all the way through the primary
target. After making exit the loss of velocity slowed the spinning
projectile causing destabilization which made the bullet yaw into the next
passenger.
And what if the members of the autopsy team said the back wound bullet
never left the body of JFK? Yep, that's what a couple of them said!
A shame you can't find a single medical examiner who said that.
Why would I bother to look for one? The evidence was buried with the
body of JFK. And no photos will show the truth, they've been edited and
altered if the 'leaked' photos are any clue.

Chris
bigdog
2018-07-12 20:31:50 UTC
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Post by mainframetech
Post by bigdog
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Carcano 6.5 mm FMJ military bullets conform to the Hague Convention
guidelines. A bullet designed to drill a neat clean hole in an enemy
soldier without expanding, tumbling, or fragmenting. The Italians
OMG, what the Hell are you doing? You just single-handedly destroyed the
SBT. It says that Oswald's bullet does not tumble. How can you guys have
a SBT withOUT a tumbling bullet?
The bullet did not tumble as it passed all the way through the primary
target. After making exit the loss of velocity slowed the spinning
projectile causing destabilization which made the bullet yaw into the next
passenger.
And what if the members of the autopsy team said the back wound bullet
never left the body of JFK? Yep, that's what a couple of them said!
A shame you can't find a single medical examiner who said that.
Why would I bother to look for one? The evidence was buried with the
body of JFK. And no photos will show the truth, they've been edited and
altered if the 'leaked' photos are any clue.
So you don't care what qualified people have concluded. You find your own
conclusions to be far more interesting than theirs.
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