Discussion:
Never rely on witnesses, especially when the police coach them
(too old to reply)
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-09 16:35:07 UTC
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Roslindale Man Convicted Of Murder Is Freed After 38 Years In Prison03:12
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August 08, 2017

Shannon Dooling

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A Roslindale man convicted of murder nearly 40 years ago is now free.

Frederick Clay was arrested two weeks after his 16th birthday and has
always maintained his innocence, even when it meant refusing a plea deal
to avoid a life sentence.

On Tuesday, his murder conviction was vacated, and Clay, now 53, walked
out of a Suffolk County courtroom a free man. Clay smiled and clapped as
he entered the lobby.

"Well, it's been a long time coming," he said. "It's been 38 years for
something I didn't do. I'm kind of overwhelmed and sort of nervous."

Clay told reporters that his lawyers and even other inmates continued to
encourage him throughout the appeals process.

"Never give up," he said. "You might lose some issues along the way but
you still got to maintain who you are and don't play politics with the
truth. Stick with the truth."

Clay was arrested in 1979 for the murder of Jeffrey Boyajian, a cab
driver who was shot to death while on the job in Roslindale. Two
eyewitnesses placed Clay at the scene and in 1981 he was convicted of
first-degree murder.

Lisa Kavanaugh, director of the Committee for Public Counsel Services
Innocence Program and Clay's attorney, said the witnesses confirmed her
client's identity only after being hypnotized, an identification method
that new research has largely debunked.

Kavanaugh said that much of the testimony used against Clay would not
stand up today in court.

"There were ... profound problems with both the circumstances with which
the witnesses were able to make their initial observations and also with
the way that the police handled the identification procedures,"
Kavanaugh said.

And the prosecution agrees.

Suffolk County District Attorney Daniel Conley's office re-investigated
Clay's case through its Conviction Integrity Program. Conley said he
doesn't know whether Clay is actually innocent but he does know that Clay
did not receive a fair trial.

"We discussed it, we studied it carefully, and at the end of the day, I
simply was not convinced that justice was done," Conley said.

Justice is all Jerry Boyajian said he and his family ever wanted for his
older brother Jeffrey, the victim of the murder. He said he and his
family are now trying to move on.

"I really feel that justice failed Mr. Clay and in that respect it also
failed my brother, but there was no point in, you know, continuing to
have Mr. Clay in prison," Boyajian said.

Now that he's a free man, Clay said he will focus on learning how to
live in a world he hasn't known for almost 40 years.

"I want to spend some time with my friends and just enjoy the moment,"
he said. "Have lunch, you know, I haven't had no steak and cheese sub in
quite a while so I want to enjoy that and just try to focus on what's
coming next."

He was greeted by applause and shared a hug with his lawyers and
supporters. Next, Clay heads to a transitional program in Lowell.

This segment aired on August 8, 2017.
__________________________________________

BTW, he BLACK.

So, what does this have to do with the JFK assassination?
The deadheads and the Nazis won't get it.
It is known as an object lesson.
NEVER RELY on witnesses.
Maybe Oswald was guilty, maybe be was innocent, maybe he was framed.
But we'll never know for sure because he didn't get a fair trail.
claviger
2017-08-10 12:49:34 UTC
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It makes me appreciate Howard Brennan all the more because he would not be
coached by the police. He didn't like the situation they put him in and
refused to be part of it.
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-10 21:58:54 UTC
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Post by claviger
It makes me appreciate Howard Brennan all the more because he would not be
coached by the police. He didn't like the situation they put him in and
refused to be part of it.
Yeah right.
Cop to Brennan, "Oswald is the number 2 guy, the one dressed in only a
T-shirt with the black eye and cut over his eye."
Brennan was threatened by the police. They told him that he didn't help
put Oswald away his family would be in danger.
claviger
2017-08-11 18:28:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
It makes me appreciate Howard Brennan all the more because he would not be
coached by the police. He didn't like the situation they put him in and
refused to be part of it.
Yeah right.
Cop to Brennan, "Oswald is the number 2 guy, the one dressed in only a
T-shirt with the black eye and cut over his eye."
Brennan was threatened by the police. They told him that he didn't help
put Oswald away his family would be in danger.
The fact is Brennan refused to ID Oswald at the lineup no matter what the
cops said to him. So once again actual facts contradict your make believe
version of events.
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-12 15:13:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
It makes me appreciate Howard Brennan all the more because he would not be
coached by the police. He didn't like the situation they put him in and
refused to be part of it.
Yeah right.
Cop to Brennan, "Oswald is the number 2 guy, the one dressed in only a
T-shirt with the black eye and cut over his eye."
Brennan was threatened by the police. They told him that he didn't help
put Oswald away his family would be in danger.
The fact is Brennan refused to ID Oswald at the lineup no matter what the
cops said to him. So once again actual facts contradict your make believe
version of events.
You mean AT FIRST. He eventually did, after the cops had a little talk
with him.
claviger
2017-08-13 13:37:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
It makes me appreciate Howard Brennan all the more because he would not be
coached by the police. He didn't like the situation they put him in and
refused to be part of it.
Yeah right.
Cop to Brennan, "Oswald is the number 2 guy, the one dressed in only a
T-shirt with the black eye and cut over his eye."
Brennan was threatened by the police. They told him that he didn't help
put Oswald away his family would be in danger.
The fact is Brennan refused to ID Oswald at the lineup no matter what the
cops said to him. So once again actual facts contradict your make believe
version of events.
You mean AT FIRST. He eventually did, after the cops had a little talk
with him.
Oh really! Please give us details about that little talk. Much to the
disappointment of the DPD this close witness to the 6th Floor Window did
not finger LHO at the line-up. Decades later he wrote a book explaining
why he was reluctant to do that. He did give a good description that
matched DPD Baker's description of the guy he confronted in the lunchroom.
No indication Brenner talked to Baker before the APB went out at 12:45 pm.
Brenner was on the street out front and Baker was inside searching the
upper floors.
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-14 16:47:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
It makes me appreciate Howard Brennan all the more because he would not be
coached by the police. He didn't like the situation they put him in and
refused to be part of it.
Yeah right.
Cop to Brennan, "Oswald is the number 2 guy, the one dressed in only a
T-shirt with the black eye and cut over his eye."
Brennan was threatened by the police. They told him that he didn't help
put Oswald away his family would be in danger.
The fact is Brennan refused to ID Oswald at the lineup no matter what the
cops said to him. So once again actual facts contradict your make believe
version of events.
You mean AT FIRST. He eventually did, after the cops had a little talk
with him.
Oh really! Please give us details about that little talk. Much to the
You're not trying hard enough. They're going to take away your decoder
ring. Brennan actually wrote a book and describes the meeting.

WHat you are supposed to do is demand that I present the recording of
what the police told Brennan. Get with the program.


Testimony Of Howard Leslie Brennan Resumed

Mr. Belin.
Mr. Brennan, you are the same Howard Leslie Brennan who testified
this morning here?
Mr. Brennan.
Yes, sir.
Mr. Ball.
Do you know a George Murray, of the National Broadcasting Co.
Mr. Brennan.
I do not.
Mr. Belin.
Have you ever worked for the Union Terminal?
Mr. McCloy.
You are still under oath, you realize.
Mr. Brennan.
Yes, sir.
Mr. Belin.
Have you ever worked for the Union Terminal Co. in Dallas?
Mr. Brennan.
I have not.
Mr. Belin.
Did you ever state to anyone that you heard shots from opposite the
Texas School Book Depository and saw smoke and paper wadding come out of
boxes on a slope below the railroad trestle at the time of the
assassination?
Did you ever say that or that, in substance, to anyone?
Mr. Brennan.
I did not.
Mr. Belin.
That is all.
Mr. Brennan.
Is there another Howard Brennan?
Mr. Belin.
Well, sir; we don't know. We wanted to know whether or not you ever
made this statement to anyone.
Mr. Brennan.
No, sir.
The Chaiman.
Thank you very much, Mr. Brennan.
Mr. Brennan.
I would like to ask a question off the record.
The Chaiman.
Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

Source:
Warren Commission Hearings, Vol. III, p. 211.


Mr. BELIN - Now, taking you down to the Dallas Police Station, I believe
you said you talked to Captain Fritz. And then what happened?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I was just more or less introduced to him in Mr.
Sorrels' room, and they told me they were going to conduct a lineup and
wanted me to view it, which I did.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember how many people were in the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - No; I don't. A possibility seven more or less one.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Did you see anyone in the lineup you recognized?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - And what did you say?
Mr. BRENNAN - I told Mr. Sorrels and Captain Fritz at that time that
Oswald--or the man in the lineup that I identified looking more like a
closest resemblance to the man in the window than anyone in the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Were the other people in the lineup, do you remember--were
they all white, or were there some Negroes in there, or what?
Mr. BRENNAN - I do not remember.
Mr. BELIN - As I understand your testimony, then, you said that you told
him that this particular person looked the most like the man you saw on
the sixth floor of the building there.
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - In the meantime, had you seen any pictures of Lee Harvey
Oswald on television or in the newspapers?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, on television.
Mr. BELIN - About when was that, do you believe?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe I reached home quarter to three or something of
that, 15 minutes either way, and I saw his picture twice on television
before I went down to the police station for the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Now, is there anything else you told the officers at the
time of the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I told them I could not make a positive identification.
Mr. BELIN - When you told them that, did you ever later tell any officer
or investigating person anything different?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - When did that happen?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe some days later--I don't recall exactly--and I
believe the Secret Service man identified hisself as being Williams, I
believe, from Houston. I won't swear to that-whether his name was
Williams or not.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BRENNAN - And he could have been an FBI. As far as I remember, it
could have been FBI instead of Secret Service.
But I believe it was a Secret Service man from Houston.
And I--
Mr. BELIN - What did he say to you and what did you say to him?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, he asked me he said, "You said you couldn't make a
positive identification."
He said, "Did you do that for security reasons personally, or couldn't you?"
And I told him I could with all honesty, but I did it more or less for
security reasons--my family and myself.
Mr. BELIN - What do you mean by security reasons for your family and
yourself?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe at that time, and I still believe it was a
Communist activity, and I felt like there hadn't been more than one
eyewitness, and if it got to be a known fact that I was an eyewitness,
my family or I, either one, might not be safe.
Mr. BELIN - Well, if you wouldn't have identified him, might he not have
been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - Beg pardon?
Mr. BELIN - If you would not have identified that man positively, might
he not have been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - No. That had a great contributing factor--greater
contributing factor than my personal reasons was that I already knew
they had the man for murder, and I knew he would not be released.
Mr. BELIN - The murder of whom?
Mr. BRENNAN - Of Officer Tippit.
Mr. BELIN - Well, what happened in between to change your mind that you
later decided to come forth and tell them you could identify him?
Mr. BRENNAN - After Oswald was killed, I was relieved quite a bit that
as far as pressure on myself of somebody not wanting me to identify
anybody, there was no longer that immediate danger.
Mr. BELIN - What is the fact as to whether or not your having seen
Oswald on television would have affected your identification of him one
way or the other?
Mr. BRENNAN - That is something I do not know.
Mr. BELIN - Mr. Brennan, could you tell us now whether you can or cannot
positively identify the man you saw on the sixth floor window as the
same man that you saw in the police station?
Mr. BRENNAN - I could at that time I could, with all sincerity, identify
him as being the same man.
Post by claviger
disappointment of the DPD this close witness to the 6th Floor Window did
not finger LHO at the line-up. Decades later he wrote a book explaining
why he was reluctant to do that. He did give a good description that
matched DPD Baker's description of the guy he confronted in the lunchroom.
No indication Brenner talked to Baker before the APB went out at 12:45 pm.
Brenner was on the street out front and Baker was inside searching the
upper floors.
claviger
2017-08-17 18:31:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
It makes me appreciate Howard Brennan all the more because he would not be
coached by the police. He didn't like the situation they put him in and
refused to be part of it.
Yeah right.
Cop to Brennan, "Oswald is the number 2 guy, the one dressed in only a
T-shirt with the black eye and cut over his eye."
Brennan was threatened by the police. They told him that he didn't help
put Oswald away his family would be in danger.
The fact is Brennan refused to ID Oswald at the lineup no matter what the
cops said to him. So once again actual facts contradict your make believe
version of events.
You mean AT FIRST. He eventually did, after the cops had a little talk
with him.
Oh really! Please give us details about that little talk. Much to the
You're not trying hard enough. They're going to take away your decoder
ring. Brennan actually wrote a book and describes the meeting.
As mentioned in previous debate on Brennan as a key witness.
Post by Anthony Marsh
WHat you are supposed to do is demand that I present the recording of
what the police told Brennan. Get with the program.
Yes let's do that.

Discussion off the record is your proof of what? The only thing that
matters is recorded on the record. They could have been talking about a
bathroom break or when to recess for lunch. Unless you are a mind reader
it does nothing to support your contention.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Mr. BELIN - Now, taking you down to the Dallas Police Station, I believe
you said you talked to Captain Fritz. And then what happened?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I was just more or less introduced to him in Mr.
Sorrels' room, and they told me they were going to conduct a lineup and
wanted me to view it, which I did.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember how many people were in the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - No; I don't. A possibility seven more or less one.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Did you see anyone in the lineup you recognized?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - And what did you say?
Mr. BRENNAN - I told Mr. Sorrels and Captain Fritz at that time that
Oswald--or the man in the lineup that I identified looking more like a
closest resemblance to the man in the window than anyone in the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Were the other people in the lineup, do you remember--were
they all white, or were there some Negroes in there, or what?
Mr. BRENNAN - I do not remember.
Mr. BELIN - As I understand your testimony, then, you said that you told
him that this particular person looked the most like the man you saw on
the sixth floor of the building there.
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - In the meantime, had you seen any pictures of Lee Harvey
Oswald on television or in the newspapers?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, on television.
Mr. BELIN - About when was that, do you believe?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe I reached home quarter to three or something of
that, 15 minutes either way, and I saw his picture twice on television
before I went down to the police station for the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Now, is there anything else you told the officers at the
time of the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I told them I could not make a positive identification.
Mr. BELIN - When you told them that, did you ever later tell any officer
or investigating person anything different?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - When did that happen?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe some days later--I don't recall exactly--and I
believe the Secret Service man identified hisself as being Williams, I
believe, from Houston. I won't swear to that-whether his name was
Williams or not.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BRENNAN - And he could have been an FBI. As far as I remember, it
could have been FBI instead of Secret Service.
But I believe it was a Secret Service man from Houston.
And I--
Mr. BELIN - What did he say to you and what did you say to him?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, he asked me he said, "You said you couldn't make a
positive identification."
He said, "Did you do that for security reasons personally, or couldn't you?"
And I told him I could with all honesty, but I did it more or less for
security reasons--my family and myself.
Mr. BELIN - What do you mean by security reasons for your family and
yourself?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe at that time, and I still believe it was a
Communist activity, and I felt like there hadn't been more than one
eyewitness, and if it got to be a known fact that I was an eyewitness,
my family or I, either one, might not be safe.
Mr. BELIN - Well, if you wouldn't have identified him, might he not have
been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - Beg pardon?
Mr. BELIN - If you would not have identified that man positively, might
he not have been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - No. That had a great contributing factor--greater
contributing factor than my personal reasons was that I already knew
they had the man for murder, and I knew he would not be released.
Mr. BELIN - The murder of whom?
Mr. BRENNAN - Of Officer Tippit.
Mr. BELIN - Well, what happened in between to change your mind that you
later decided to come forth and tell them you could identify him?
Mr. BRENNAN - After Oswald was killed, I was relieved quite a bit that
as far as pressure on myself of somebody not wanting me to identify
anybody, there was no longer that immediate danger.
Mr. BELIN - What is the fact as to whether or not your having seen
Oswald on television would have affected your identification of him one
way or the other?
Mr. BRENNAN - That is something I do not know.
Mr. BELIN - Mr. Brennan, could you tell us now whether you can or cannot
positively identify the man you saw on the sixth floor window as the
same man that you saw in the police station?
Mr. BRENNAN - I could at that time I could, with all sincerity, identify
him as being the same man.
Thank you for proving Brennan had reasons for giving the ambiguous ID of
LHO at this lineup, something we already knew. What you fail to mention
is Brennan saw the man in the 6th floor window twice. Before the parade
Brennan noticed him gazing down the street. When the motorcade was
passing by Brennan heard loud shots and looked up at the 6th floor window
to see the same man with a rifle. So Brennan had two reasons to notice
the man in the window and immediately gave a description to the police,
who broadcast the APB 15 minutes after shots were fired. This APB closely
matched the employee DPD Baker confronted in the lunchroom. No way can
you make a convincing alibi for LHO being innocent. Sympathy with his
political loyalty of Socialism seems to be your primary motivation for
trying to blame this horrible crime on anyone but LHO. Nor do you have
any interest in Castro as a suspect who had many reasons to want President
Kennedy assassinated. Apparently political bias prevents you from taking
an objective approach to this case.
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-18 01:05:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
It makes me appreciate Howard Brennan all the more because he would not be
coached by the police. He didn't like the situation they put him in and
refused to be part of it.
Yeah right.
Cop to Brennan, "Oswald is the number 2 guy, the one dressed in only a
T-shirt with the black eye and cut over his eye."
Brennan was threatened by the police. They told him that he didn't help
put Oswald away his family would be in danger.
The fact is Brennan refused to ID Oswald at the lineup no matter what the
cops said to him. So once again actual facts contradict your make believe
version of events.
You mean AT FIRST. He eventually did, after the cops had a little talk
with him.
Oh really! Please give us details about that little talk. Much to the
You're not trying hard enough. They're going to take away your decoder
ring. Brennan actually wrote a book and describes the meeting.
As mentioned in previous debate on Brennan as a key witness.
Post by Anthony Marsh
WHat you are supposed to do is demand that I present the recording of
what the police told Brennan. Get with the program.
Yes let's do that.
Discussion off the record is your proof of what? The only thing that
matters is recorded on the record. They could have been talking about a
bathroom break or when to recess for lunch. Unless you are a mind reader
it does nothing to support your contention.
What is said off the record matters even more because they were too afraid
to put it on the record. National Security, you know. Why go off the
record unless it's something they don't want recorded? Your challenges are
whimpy. You should demand that I produce the tapes.
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Mr. BELIN - Now, taking you down to the Dallas Police Station, I believe
you said you talked to Captain Fritz. And then what happened?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I was just more or less introduced to him in Mr.
Sorrels' room, and they told me they were going to conduct a lineup and
wanted me to view it, which I did.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember how many people were in the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - No; I don't. A possibility seven more or less one.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Did you see anyone in the lineup you recognized?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - And what did you say?
Mr. BRENNAN - I told Mr. Sorrels and Captain Fritz at that time that
Oswald--or the man in the lineup that I identified looking more like a
closest resemblance to the man in the window than anyone in the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Were the other people in the lineup, do you remember--were
they all white, or were there some Negroes in there, or what?
Mr. BRENNAN - I do not remember.
Mr. BELIN - As I understand your testimony, then, you said that you told
him that this particular person looked the most like the man you saw on
the sixth floor of the building there.
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - In the meantime, had you seen any pictures of Lee Harvey
Oswald on television or in the newspapers?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, on television.
Mr. BELIN - About when was that, do you believe?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe I reached home quarter to three or something of
that, 15 minutes either way, and I saw his picture twice on television
before I went down to the police station for the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Now, is there anything else you told the officers at the
time of the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I told them I could not make a positive identification.
Mr. BELIN - When you told them that, did you ever later tell any officer
or investigating person anything different?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - When did that happen?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe some days later--I don't recall exactly--and I
believe the Secret Service man identified hisself as being Williams, I
believe, from Houston. I won't swear to that-whether his name was
Williams or not.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BRENNAN - And he could have been an FBI. As far as I remember, it
could have been FBI instead of Secret Service.
But I believe it was a Secret Service man from Houston.
And I--
Mr. BELIN - What did he say to you and what did you say to him?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, he asked me he said, "You said you couldn't make a
positive identification."
He said, "Did you do that for security reasons personally, or couldn't you?"
And I told him I could with all honesty, but I did it more or less for
security reasons--my family and myself.
Mr. BELIN - What do you mean by security reasons for your family and
yourself?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe at that time, and I still believe it was a
Communist activity, and I felt like there hadn't been more than one
eyewitness, and if it got to be a known fact that I was an eyewitness,
my family or I, either one, might not be safe.
Mr. BELIN - Well, if you wouldn't have identified him, might he not have
been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - Beg pardon?
Mr. BELIN - If you would not have identified that man positively, might
he not have been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - No. That had a great contributing factor--greater
contributing factor than my personal reasons was that I already knew
they had the man for murder, and I knew he would not be released.
Mr. BELIN - The murder of whom?
Mr. BRENNAN - Of Officer Tippit.
Mr. BELIN - Well, what happened in between to change your mind that you
later decided to come forth and tell them you could identify him?
Mr. BRENNAN - After Oswald was killed, I was relieved quite a bit that
as far as pressure on myself of somebody not wanting me to identify
anybody, there was no longer that immediate danger.
Mr. BELIN - What is the fact as to whether or not your having seen
Oswald on television would have affected your identification of him one
way or the other?
Mr. BRENNAN - That is something I do not know.
Mr. BELIN - Mr. Brennan, could you tell us now whether you can or cannot
positively identify the man you saw on the sixth floor window as the
same man that you saw in the police station?
Mr. BRENNAN - I could at that time I could, with all sincerity, identify
him as being the same man.
Thank you for proving Brennan had reasons for giving the ambiguous ID of
LHO at this lineup, something we already knew. What you fail to mention
Of course he did, because he was afraid for his family.
Post by claviger
is Brennan saw the man in the 6th floor window twice. Before the parade
Brennan noticed him gazing down the street. When the motorcade was
passing by Brennan heard loud shots and looked up at the 6th floor window
to see the same man with a rifle. So Brennan had two reasons to notice
Yes, after all the shots had been fired, he looked up.
And he saw a man. WOW, I guess that wraps up the case. So we know the
shooter wasn's a woman!
Post by claviger
the man in the window and immediately gave a description to the police,
who broadcast the APB 15 minutes after shots were fired. This APB closely
Again for the hundreth time, you have absolutely no proof that it was
Brennan's description that the police used. You ASSuME that because it
fits your story, but you can't prove it so stop stating it as a fact. Try
to honest for once in your life.
Post by claviger
matched the employee DPD Baker confronted in the lunchroom. No way can
Great, then let Baker put out the APB after he had just let Oswald go.
Post by claviger
you make a convincing alibi for LHO being innocent. Sympathy with his
political loyalty of Socialism seems to be your primary motivation for
WTF are you talking about? Are you trying to resurrect McCarthyism?
I am not a socialist. I don't have any sympathy with Oswald's beliefs.
Just try to argue honestly for a change.
Post by claviger
trying to blame this horrible crime on anyone but LHO. Nor do you have
I have said many times that I am open to Oswald being involved somehow.
Post by claviger
any interest in Castro as a suspect who had many reasons to want President
Kennedy assassinated. Apparently political bias prevents you from taking
an objective approach to this case.
I lost interest in Castro when I uncovered the hoaxes. If you want to be
a conspiracy nut that blames it on Castro, find with me.
claviger
2017-08-18 17:41:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
What is said off the record matters even more because they were too afraid
to put it on the record. National Security, you know. Why go off the
record unless it's something they don't want recorded? Your challenges are
whimpy. You should demand that I produce the tapes.
What tapes? Off the record conversations are a standard part of legal
proceedings in court. Judges and Lawyers go off the record for diverse
reasons. This a desperate attempt to salvage your lame argument devoid of
evidence.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Mr. BELIN - Now, taking you down to the Dallas Police Station, I believe
you said you talked to Captain Fritz. And then what happened?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I was just more or less introduced to him in Mr.
Sorrels' room, and they told me they were going to conduct a lineup and
wanted me to view it, which I did.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember how many people were in the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - No; I don't. A possibility seven more or less one.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Did you see anyone in the lineup you recognized?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - And what did you say?
Mr. BRENNAN - I told Mr. Sorrels and Captain Fritz at that time that
Oswald--or the man in the lineup that I identified looking more like a
closest resemblance to the man in the window than anyone in the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Were the other people in the lineup, do you remember--were
they all white, or were there some Negroes in there, or what?
Mr. BRENNAN - I do not remember.
Mr. BELIN - As I understand your testimony, then, you said that you told
him that this particular person looked the most like the man you saw on
the sixth floor of the building there.
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - In the meantime, had you seen any pictures of Lee Harvey
Oswald on television or in the newspapers?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, on television.
Mr. BELIN - About when was that, do you believe?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe I reached home quarter to three or something of
that, 15 minutes either way, and I saw his picture twice on television
before I went down to the police station for the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Now, is there anything else you told the officers at the
time of the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I told them I could not make a positive identification.
Mr. BELIN - When you told them that, did you ever later tell any officer
or investigating person anything different?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - When did that happen?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe some days later--I don't recall exactly--and I
believe the Secret Service man identified hisself as being Williams, I
believe, from Houston. I won't swear to that-whether his name was
Williams or not.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BRENNAN - And he could have been an FBI. As far as I remember, it
could have been FBI instead of Secret Service.
But I believe it was a Secret Service man from Houston.
And I--
Mr. BELIN - What did he say to you and what did you say to him?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, he asked me he said, "You said you couldn't make a
positive identification."
He said, "Did you do that for security reasons personally, or couldn't you?"
And I told him I could with all honesty, but I did it more or less for
security reasons--my family and myself.
Mr. BELIN - What do you mean by security reasons for your family and
yourself?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe at that time, and I still believe it was a
Communist activity, and I felt like there hadn't been more than one
eyewitness, and if it got to be a known fact that I was an eyewitness,
my family or I, either one, might not be safe.
Mr. BELIN - Well, if you wouldn't have identified him, might he not have
been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - Beg pardon?
Mr. BELIN - If you would not have identified that man positively, might
he not have been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - No. That had a great contributing factor--greater
contributing factor than my personal reasons was that I already knew
they had the man for murder, and I knew he would not be released.
Mr. BELIN - The murder of whom?
Mr. BRENNAN - Of Officer Tippit.
Mr. BELIN - Well, what happened in between to change your mind that you
later decided to come forth and tell them you could identify him?
Mr. BRENNAN - After Oswald was killed, I was relieved quite a bit that
as far as pressure on myself of somebody not wanting me to identify
anybody, there was no longer that immediate danger.
Mr. BELIN - What is the fact as to whether or not your having seen
Oswald on television would have affected your identification of him one
way or the other?
Mr. BRENNAN - That is something I do not know.
Mr. BELIN - Mr. Brennan, could you tell us now whether you can or cannot
positively identify the man you saw on the sixth floor window as the
same man that you saw in the police station?
Mr. BRENNAN - I could at that time I could, with all sincerity, identify
him as being the same man.
Thank you for proving Brennan had reasons for giving the ambiguous ID of
LHO at this lineup, something we already knew. What you fail to mention
Of course he did, because he was afraid for his family.
Post by claviger
is Brennan saw the man in the 6th floor window twice. Before the parade
Brennan noticed him gazing down the street. When the motorcade was
passing by Brennan heard loud shots and looked up at the 6th floor window
to see the same man with a rifle. So Brennan had two reasons to notice
Yes, after all the shots had been fired, he looked up.
And he saw a man. WOW, I guess that wraps up the case. So we know the
shooter wasn's a woman!
Another amateurish scam on your part. He saw the same guy twice in the
same window.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
the man in the window and immediately gave a description to the police,
who broadcast the APB 15 minutes after shots were fired. This APB closely
Again for the hundreth time, you have absolutely no proof that it was
Brennan's description that the police used. You ASSuME that because it
fits your story, but you can't prove it so stop stating it as a fact. Try
to honest for once in your life.
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
matched the employee DPD Baker confronted in the lunchroom. No way can
Great, then let Baker put out the APB after he had just let Oswald go.
Baker's description was almost identical to Brennan but even more
accurate. So let's assume it was Baker. Now your argument curls around
and bites you on the nose.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
you make a convincing alibi for LHO being innocent. Sympathy with his
political loyalty of Socialism seems to be your primary motivation for
WTF are you talking about? Are you trying to resurrect McCarthyism?
Your are the Leftwing version of McCarthy with your addiction to the Nazi
slander you hurl with reckless abandon.
Post by Anthony Marsh
I am not a socialist. I don't have any sympathy with Oswald's beliefs.
Just try to argue honestly for a change.
Why don't you man up and do the same?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
trying to blame this horrible crime on anyone but LHO. Nor do you have
I have said many times that I am open to Oswald being involved somehow.
No way for him to not be involved. As a loner and malcontent he would not
share the spotlight as the bold self motivated assassin who made the kill
on the Number One enemy of Cuban communism.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
any interest in Castro as a suspect who had many reasons to want President
Kennedy assassinated. Apparently political bias prevents you from taking
an objective approach to this case.
I lost interest in Castro when I uncovered the hoaxes. If you want to be
a conspiracy nut that blames it on Castro, find with me.
A German TV producer did exactly that.
donald willis
2017-08-18 23:38:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
What is said off the record matters even more because they were too afraid
to put it on the record. National Security, you know. Why go off the
record unless it's something they don't want recorded? Your challenges are
whimpy. You should demand that I produce the tapes.
What tapes? Off the record conversations are a standard part of legal
proceedings in court. Judges and Lawyers go off the record for diverse
reasons. This a desperate attempt to salvage your lame argument devoid of
evidence.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Mr. BELIN - Now, taking you down to the Dallas Police Station, I believe
you said you talked to Captain Fritz. And then what happened?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I was just more or less introduced to him in Mr.
Sorrels' room, and they told me they were going to conduct a lineup and
wanted me to view it, which I did.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember how many people were in the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - No; I don't. A possibility seven more or less one.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Did you see anyone in the lineup you recognized?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - And what did you say?
Mr. BRENNAN - I told Mr. Sorrels and Captain Fritz at that time that
Oswald--or the man in the lineup that I identified looking more like a
closest resemblance to the man in the window than anyone in the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Were the other people in the lineup, do you remember--were
they all white, or were there some Negroes in there, or what?
Mr. BRENNAN - I do not remember.
Mr. BELIN - As I understand your testimony, then, you said that you told
him that this particular person looked the most like the man you saw on
the sixth floor of the building there.
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - In the meantime, had you seen any pictures of Lee Harvey
Oswald on television or in the newspapers?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, on television.
Mr. BELIN - About when was that, do you believe?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe I reached home quarter to three or something of
that, 15 minutes either way, and I saw his picture twice on television
before I went down to the police station for the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Now, is there anything else you told the officers at the
time of the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I told them I could not make a positive identification.
Mr. BELIN - When you told them that, did you ever later tell any officer
or investigating person anything different?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - When did that happen?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe some days later--I don't recall exactly--and I
believe the Secret Service man identified hisself as being Williams, I
believe, from Houston. I won't swear to that-whether his name was
Williams or not.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BRENNAN - And he could have been an FBI. As far as I remember, it
could have been FBI instead of Secret Service.
But I believe it was a Secret Service man from Houston.
And I--
Mr. BELIN - What did he say to you and what did you say to him?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, he asked me he said, "You said you couldn't make a
positive identification."
He said, "Did you do that for security reasons personally, or couldn't you?"
And I told him I could with all honesty, but I did it more or less for
security reasons--my family and myself.
Mr. BELIN - What do you mean by security reasons for your family and
yourself?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe at that time, and I still believe it was a
Communist activity, and I felt like there hadn't been more than one
eyewitness, and if it got to be a known fact that I was an eyewitness,
my family or I, either one, might not be safe.
Mr. BELIN - Well, if you wouldn't have identified him, might he not have
been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - Beg pardon?
Mr. BELIN - If you would not have identified that man positively, might
he not have been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - No. That had a great contributing factor--greater
contributing factor than my personal reasons was that I already knew
they had the man for murder, and I knew he would not be released.
Mr. BELIN - The murder of whom?
Mr. BRENNAN - Of Officer Tippit.
Mr. BELIN - Well, what happened in between to change your mind that you
later decided to come forth and tell them you could identify him?
Mr. BRENNAN - After Oswald was killed, I was relieved quite a bit that
as far as pressure on myself of somebody not wanting me to identify
anybody, there was no longer that immediate danger.
Mr. BELIN - What is the fact as to whether or not your having seen
Oswald on television would have affected your identification of him one
way or the other?
Mr. BRENNAN - That is something I do not know.
Mr. BELIN - Mr. Brennan, could you tell us now whether you can or cannot
positively identify the man you saw on the sixth floor window as the
same man that you saw in the police station?
Mr. BRENNAN - I could at that time I could, with all sincerity, identify
him as being the same man.
Thank you for proving Brennan had reasons for giving the ambiguous ID of
LHO at this lineup, something we already knew. What you fail to mention
Of course he did, because he was afraid for his family.
Post by claviger
is Brennan saw the man in the 6th floor window twice. Before the parade
Brennan noticed him gazing down the street. When the motorcade was
passing by Brennan heard loud shots and looked up at the 6th floor window
to see the same man with a rifle. So Brennan had two reasons to notice
Yes, after all the shots had been fired, he looked up.
And he saw a man. WOW, I guess that wraps up the case. So we know the
shooter wasn's a woman!
Another amateurish scam on your part. He saw the same guy twice in the
same window.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
the man in the window and immediately gave a description to the police,
who broadcast the APB 15 minutes after shots were fired. This APB closely
Again for the hundreth time, you have absolutely no proof that it was
Brennan's description that the police used. You ASSuME that because it
fits your story, but you can't prove it so stop stating it as a fact. Try
to honest for once in your life.
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Sure, it was Brennan who provided height & weight estimates, though he
could hardly, realistically, have done so. It was Brennan who volunteered
it was a Winchester rifle, though he admitted he knew nothing about guns.
It was Brennan who didn't have a clothing description, as per Sawyer's
APB. Though he provides one in his original affidavit. And Brennan did
not know that the shooter was in the depository, as per Sawyer's 12:46
transmission. Though photos and his affidavit seem to contradict Sawyer.
Sawyer & Brennan--a perfect match!

LNers in denial!

dcw
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-19 19:54:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
What is said off the record matters even more because they were too afraid
to put it on the record. National Security, you know. Why go off the
record unless it's something they don't want recorded? Your challenges are
whimpy. You should demand that I produce the tapes.
What tapes? Off the record conversations are a standard part of legal
proceedings in court. Judges and Lawyers go off the record for diverse
reasons. This a desperate attempt to salvage your lame argument devoid of
evidence.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Mr. BELIN - Now, taking you down to the Dallas Police Station, I believe
you said you talked to Captain Fritz. And then what happened?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I was just more or less introduced to him in Mr.
Sorrels' room, and they told me they were going to conduct a lineup and
wanted me to view it, which I did.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember how many people were in the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - No; I don't. A possibility seven more or less one.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Did you see anyone in the lineup you recognized?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - And what did you say?
Mr. BRENNAN - I told Mr. Sorrels and Captain Fritz at that time that
Oswald--or the man in the lineup that I identified looking more like a
closest resemblance to the man in the window than anyone in the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Were the other people in the lineup, do you remember--were
they all white, or were there some Negroes in there, or what?
Mr. BRENNAN - I do not remember.
Mr. BELIN - As I understand your testimony, then, you said that you told
him that this particular person looked the most like the man you saw on
the sixth floor of the building there.
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - In the meantime, had you seen any pictures of Lee Harvey
Oswald on television or in the newspapers?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, on television.
Mr. BELIN - About when was that, do you believe?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe I reached home quarter to three or something of
that, 15 minutes either way, and I saw his picture twice on television
before I went down to the police station for the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Now, is there anything else you told the officers at the
time of the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I told them I could not make a positive identification.
Mr. BELIN - When you told them that, did you ever later tell any officer
or investigating person anything different?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - When did that happen?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe some days later--I don't recall exactly--and I
believe the Secret Service man identified hisself as being Williams, I
believe, from Houston. I won't swear to that-whether his name was
Williams or not.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BRENNAN - And he could have been an FBI. As far as I remember, it
could have been FBI instead of Secret Service.
But I believe it was a Secret Service man from Houston.
And I--
Mr. BELIN - What did he say to you and what did you say to him?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, he asked me he said, "You said you couldn't make a
positive identification."
He said, "Did you do that for security reasons personally, or couldn't you?"
And I told him I could with all honesty, but I did it more or less for
security reasons--my family and myself.
Mr. BELIN - What do you mean by security reasons for your family and
yourself?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe at that time, and I still believe it was a
Communist activity, and I felt like there hadn't been more than one
eyewitness, and if it got to be a known fact that I was an eyewitness,
my family or I, either one, might not be safe.
Mr. BELIN - Well, if you wouldn't have identified him, might he not have
been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - Beg pardon?
Mr. BELIN - If you would not have identified that man positively, might
he not have been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - No. That had a great contributing factor--greater
contributing factor than my personal reasons was that I already knew
they had the man for murder, and I knew he would not be released.
Mr. BELIN - The murder of whom?
Mr. BRENNAN - Of Officer Tippit.
Mr. BELIN - Well, what happened in between to change your mind that you
later decided to come forth and tell them you could identify him?
Mr. BRENNAN - After Oswald was killed, I was relieved quite a bit that
as far as pressure on myself of somebody not wanting me to identify
anybody, there was no longer that immediate danger.
Mr. BELIN - What is the fact as to whether or not your having seen
Oswald on television would have affected your identification of him one
way or the other?
Mr. BRENNAN - That is something I do not know.
Mr. BELIN - Mr. Brennan, could you tell us now whether you can or cannot
positively identify the man you saw on the sixth floor window as the
same man that you saw in the police station?
Mr. BRENNAN - I could at that time I could, with all sincerity, identify
him as being the same man.
Thank you for proving Brennan had reasons for giving the ambiguous ID of
LHO at this lineup, something we already knew. What you fail to mention
Of course he did, because he was afraid for his family.
Post by claviger
is Brennan saw the man in the 6th floor window twice. Before the parade
Brennan noticed him gazing down the street. When the motorcade was
passing by Brennan heard loud shots and looked up at the 6th floor window
to see the same man with a rifle. So Brennan had two reasons to notice
Yes, after all the shots had been fired, he looked up.
And he saw a man. WOW, I guess that wraps up the case. So we know the
shooter wasn's a woman!
Another amateurish scam on your part. He saw the same guy twice in the
same window.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
the man in the window and immediately gave a description to the police,
who broadcast the APB 15 minutes after shots were fired. This APB closely
Again for the hundreth time, you have absolutely no proof that it was
Brennan's description that the police used. You ASSuME that because it
fits your story, but you can't prove it so stop stating it as a fact. Try
to honest for once in your life.
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Sure, it was Brennan who provided height & weight estimates, though he
could hardly, realistically, have done so. It was Brennan who volunteered
it was a Winchester rifle, though he admitted he knew nothing about guns.
It was Brennan who didn't have a clothing description, as per Sawyer's
APB. Though he provides one in his original affidavit. And Brennan did
not know that the shooter was in the depository, as per Sawyer's 12:46
transmission. Though photos and his affidavit seem to contradict Sawyer.
Sawyer & Brennan--a perfect match!
Didn't one of the APB's mention a Winchester? Maybe THAT was the one
based on Brennan's identification.


CHANNEL 2

Dispatcher Yes, 12:44 p.m.
9 (Inspector J.H. Sawyer) The type of weapon looked like a
30-30 rifle or some type of Winchester.
Dispatcher 9, it was a rifle?
9 A rifle, yes.
Dispatcher 9, any clothing description?
9 About 30, 5'10", 165 pounds.
12:45 Dispatcher Attention Elm and Houston is reported to be an
unknown white male, all squads. Attention all squads. The suspect in the
shooting at approximately thirty, slender build, height five feet ten
inches, weight one hundred sixty-five pounds, reported to be armed with
what is thought to be a 30 caliber rifle. Attention all squads. The
suspect from Elm and Houston is reported to be an unknown white male
about thirty, slender build, five feet ten inches tall, one hundred
sixty-five pounds, armed with what is thought to be a 30-30 rifle. No
further description at this time, or information. 12:45.
Post by donald willis
LNers in denial!
dcw
donald willis
2017-08-20 14:00:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
What is said off the record matters even more because they were too afraid
to put it on the record. National Security, you know. Why go off the
record unless it's something they don't want recorded? Your challenges are
whimpy. You should demand that I produce the tapes.
What tapes? Off the record conversations are a standard part of legal
proceedings in court. Judges and Lawyers go off the record for diverse
reasons. This a desperate attempt to salvage your lame argument devoid of
evidence.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Mr. BELIN - Now, taking you down to the Dallas Police Station, I believe
you said you talked to Captain Fritz. And then what happened?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I was just more or less introduced to him in Mr.
Sorrels' room, and they told me they were going to conduct a lineup and
wanted me to view it, which I did.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember how many people were in the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - No; I don't. A possibility seven more or less one.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Did you see anyone in the lineup you recognized?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - And what did you say?
Mr. BRENNAN - I told Mr. Sorrels and Captain Fritz at that time that
Oswald--or the man in the lineup that I identified looking more like a
closest resemblance to the man in the window than anyone in the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Were the other people in the lineup, do you remember--were
they all white, or were there some Negroes in there, or what?
Mr. BRENNAN - I do not remember.
Mr. BELIN - As I understand your testimony, then, you said that you told
him that this particular person looked the most like the man you saw on
the sixth floor of the building there.
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - In the meantime, had you seen any pictures of Lee Harvey
Oswald on television or in the newspapers?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, on television.
Mr. BELIN - About when was that, do you believe?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe I reached home quarter to three or something of
that, 15 minutes either way, and I saw his picture twice on television
before I went down to the police station for the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Now, is there anything else you told the officers at the
time of the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I told them I could not make a positive identification.
Mr. BELIN - When you told them that, did you ever later tell any officer
or investigating person anything different?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - When did that happen?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe some days later--I don't recall exactly--and I
believe the Secret Service man identified hisself as being Williams, I
believe, from Houston. I won't swear to that-whether his name was
Williams or not.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BRENNAN - And he could have been an FBI. As far as I remember, it
could have been FBI instead of Secret Service.
But I believe it was a Secret Service man from Houston.
And I--
Mr. BELIN - What did he say to you and what did you say to him?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, he asked me he said, "You said you couldn't make a
positive identification."
He said, "Did you do that for security reasons personally, or couldn't you?"
And I told him I could with all honesty, but I did it more or less for
security reasons--my family and myself.
Mr. BELIN - What do you mean by security reasons for your family and
yourself?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe at that time, and I still believe it was a
Communist activity, and I felt like there hadn't been more than one
eyewitness, and if it got to be a known fact that I was an eyewitness,
my family or I, either one, might not be safe.
Mr. BELIN - Well, if you wouldn't have identified him, might he not have
been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - Beg pardon?
Mr. BELIN - If you would not have identified that man positively, might
he not have been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - No. That had a great contributing factor--greater
contributing factor than my personal reasons was that I already knew
they had the man for murder, and I knew he would not be released.
Mr. BELIN - The murder of whom?
Mr. BRENNAN - Of Officer Tippit.
Mr. BELIN - Well, what happened in between to change your mind that you
later decided to come forth and tell them you could identify him?
Mr. BRENNAN - After Oswald was killed, I was relieved quite a bit that
as far as pressure on myself of somebody not wanting me to identify
anybody, there was no longer that immediate danger.
Mr. BELIN - What is the fact as to whether or not your having seen
Oswald on television would have affected your identification of him one
way or the other?
Mr. BRENNAN - That is something I do not know.
Mr. BELIN - Mr. Brennan, could you tell us now whether you can or cannot
positively identify the man you saw on the sixth floor window as the
same man that you saw in the police station?
Mr. BRENNAN - I could at that time I could, with all sincerity, identify
him as being the same man.
Thank you for proving Brennan had reasons for giving the ambiguous ID of
LHO at this lineup, something we already knew. What you fail to mention
Of course he did, because he was afraid for his family.
Post by claviger
is Brennan saw the man in the 6th floor window twice. Before the parade
Brennan noticed him gazing down the street. When the motorcade was
passing by Brennan heard loud shots and looked up at the 6th floor window
to see the same man with a rifle. So Brennan had two reasons to notice
Yes, after all the shots had been fired, he looked up.
And he saw a man. WOW, I guess that wraps up the case. So we know the
shooter wasn's a woman!
Another amateurish scam on your part. He saw the same guy twice in the
same window.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
the man in the window and immediately gave a description to the police,
who broadcast the APB 15 minutes after shots were fired. This APB closely
Again for the hundreth time, you have absolutely no proof that it was
Brennan's description that the police used. You ASSuME that because it
fits your story, but you can't prove it so stop stating it as a fact. Try
to honest for once in your life.
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Sure, it was Brennan who provided height & weight estimates, though he
could hardly, realistically, have done so. It was Brennan who volunteered
it was a Winchester rifle, though he admitted he knew nothing about guns.
It was Brennan who didn't have a clothing description, as per Sawyer's
APB. Though he provides one in his original affidavit. And Brennan did
not know that the shooter was in the depository, as per Sawyer's 12:46
transmission. Though photos and his affidavit seem to contradict Sawyer.
Sawyer & Brennan--a perfect match!
Didn't one of the APB's mention a Winchester? Maybe THAT was the one
based on Brennan's identification.
CHANNEL 2
Dispatcher Yes, 12:44 p.m.
9 (Inspector J.H. Sawyer) The type of weapon looked like a
30-30 rifle or some type of Winchester.
Dispatcher 9, it was a rifle?
9 A rifle, yes.
Dispatcher 9, any clothing description?
9 About 30, 5'10", 165 pounds.
12:45 Dispatcher Attention Elm and Houston is reported to be an
unknown white male, all squads. Attention all squads. The suspect in the
shooting at approximately thirty, slender build, height five feet ten
inches, weight one hundred sixty-five pounds, reported to be armed with
what is thought to be a 30 caliber rifle. Attention all squads. The
suspect from Elm and Houston is reported to be an unknown white male
about thirty, slender build, five feet ten inches tall, one hundred
sixty-five pounds, armed with what is thought to be a 30-30 rifle. No
further description at this time, or information. 12:45.
Post by donald willis
LNers in denial!
dcw
I was being ironical when I said that Brennan volunteered that the weapon
was a Winchester. I don't think you can find anywhere where he specifies
a brand of weapon....
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-21 02:17:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
What is said off the record matters even more because they were too afraid
to put it on the record. National Security, you know. Why go off the
record unless it's something they don't want recorded? Your challenges are
whimpy. You should demand that I produce the tapes.
What tapes? Off the record conversations are a standard part of legal
proceedings in court. Judges and Lawyers go off the record for diverse
reasons. This a desperate attempt to salvage your lame argument devoid of
evidence.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Mr. BELIN - Now, taking you down to the Dallas Police Station, I believe
you said you talked to Captain Fritz. And then what happened?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I was just more or less introduced to him in Mr.
Sorrels' room, and they told me they were going to conduct a lineup and
wanted me to view it, which I did.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember how many people were in the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - No; I don't. A possibility seven more or less one.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Did you see anyone in the lineup you recognized?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - And what did you say?
Mr. BRENNAN - I told Mr. Sorrels and Captain Fritz at that time that
Oswald--or the man in the lineup that I identified looking more like a
closest resemblance to the man in the window than anyone in the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Were the other people in the lineup, do you remember--were
they all white, or were there some Negroes in there, or what?
Mr. BRENNAN - I do not remember.
Mr. BELIN - As I understand your testimony, then, you said that you told
him that this particular person looked the most like the man you saw on
the sixth floor of the building there.
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - In the meantime, had you seen any pictures of Lee Harvey
Oswald on television or in the newspapers?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, on television.
Mr. BELIN - About when was that, do you believe?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe I reached home quarter to three or something of
that, 15 minutes either way, and I saw his picture twice on television
before I went down to the police station for the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Now, is there anything else you told the officers at the
time of the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I told them I could not make a positive identification.
Mr. BELIN - When you told them that, did you ever later tell any officer
or investigating person anything different?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - When did that happen?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe some days later--I don't recall exactly--and I
believe the Secret Service man identified hisself as being Williams, I
believe, from Houston. I won't swear to that-whether his name was
Williams or not.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BRENNAN - And he could have been an FBI. As far as I remember, it
could have been FBI instead of Secret Service.
But I believe it was a Secret Service man from Houston.
And I--
Mr. BELIN - What did he say to you and what did you say to him?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, he asked me he said, "You said you couldn't make a
positive identification."
He said, "Did you do that for security reasons personally, or couldn't you?"
And I told him I could with all honesty, but I did it more or less for
security reasons--my family and myself.
Mr. BELIN - What do you mean by security reasons for your family and
yourself?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe at that time, and I still believe it was a
Communist activity, and I felt like there hadn't been more than one
eyewitness, and if it got to be a known fact that I was an eyewitness,
my family or I, either one, might not be safe.
Mr. BELIN - Well, if you wouldn't have identified him, might he not have
been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - Beg pardon?
Mr. BELIN - If you would not have identified that man positively, might
he not have been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - No. That had a great contributing factor--greater
contributing factor than my personal reasons was that I already knew
they had the man for murder, and I knew he would not be released.
Mr. BELIN - The murder of whom?
Mr. BRENNAN - Of Officer Tippit.
Mr. BELIN - Well, what happened in between to change your mind that you
later decided to come forth and tell them you could identify him?
Mr. BRENNAN - After Oswald was killed, I was relieved quite a bit that
as far as pressure on myself of somebody not wanting me to identify
anybody, there was no longer that immediate danger.
Mr. BELIN - What is the fact as to whether or not your having seen
Oswald on television would have affected your identification of him one
way or the other?
Mr. BRENNAN - That is something I do not know.
Mr. BELIN - Mr. Brennan, could you tell us now whether you can or cannot
positively identify the man you saw on the sixth floor window as the
same man that you saw in the police station?
Mr. BRENNAN - I could at that time I could, with all sincerity, identify
him as being the same man.
Thank you for proving Brennan had reasons for giving the ambiguous ID of
LHO at this lineup, something we already knew. What you fail to mention
Of course he did, because he was afraid for his family.
Post by claviger
is Brennan saw the man in the 6th floor window twice. Before the parade
Brennan noticed him gazing down the street. When the motorcade was
passing by Brennan heard loud shots and looked up at the 6th floor window
to see the same man with a rifle. So Brennan had two reasons to notice
Yes, after all the shots had been fired, he looked up.
And he saw a man. WOW, I guess that wraps up the case. So we know the
shooter wasn's a woman!
Another amateurish scam on your part. He saw the same guy twice in the
same window.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
the man in the window and immediately gave a description to the police,
who broadcast the APB 15 minutes after shots were fired. This APB closely
Again for the hundreth time, you have absolutely no proof that it was
Brennan's description that the police used. You ASSuME that because it
fits your story, but you can't prove it so stop stating it as a fact. Try
to honest for once in your life.
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Sure, it was Brennan who provided height & weight estimates, though he
could hardly, realistically, have done so. It was Brennan who volunteered
it was a Winchester rifle, though he admitted he knew nothing about guns.
It was Brennan who didn't have a clothing description, as per Sawyer's
APB. Though he provides one in his original affidavit. And Brennan did
not know that the shooter was in the depository, as per Sawyer's 12:46
transmission. Though photos and his affidavit seem to contradict Sawyer.
Sawyer & Brennan--a perfect match!
Didn't one of the APB's mention a Winchester? Maybe THAT was the one
based on Brennan's identification.
CHANNEL 2
Dispatcher Yes, 12:44 p.m.
9 (Inspector J.H. Sawyer) The type of weapon looked like a
30-30 rifle or some type of Winchester.
Dispatcher 9, it was a rifle?
9 A rifle, yes.
Dispatcher 9, any clothing description?
9 About 30, 5'10", 165 pounds.
12:45 Dispatcher Attention Elm and Houston is reported to be an
unknown white male, all squads. Attention all squads. The suspect in the
shooting at approximately thirty, slender build, height five feet ten
inches, weight one hundred sixty-five pounds, reported to be armed with
what is thought to be a 30 caliber rifle. Attention all squads. The
suspect from Elm and Houston is reported to be an unknown white male
about thirty, slender build, five feet ten inches tall, one hundred
sixty-five pounds, armed with what is thought to be a 30-30 rifle. No
further description at this time, or information. 12:45.
Post by donald willis
LNers in denial!
dcw
I was being ironical when I said that Brennan volunteered that the weapon
was a Winchester. I don't think you can find anywhere where he specifies
a brand of weapon....
I'm not following you. I don't get your point. Is the problem that you
don't want to read my posts or that McAdams deletes them so you never get
to see them? Brennan was the only one to call the rifle a Winchester.
That's where the description came from.
donald willis
2017-08-21 23:43:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by donald willis
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
What is said off the record matters even more because they were too afraid
to put it on the record. National Security, you know. Why go off the
record unless it's something they don't want recorded? Your challenges are
whimpy. You should demand that I produce the tapes.
What tapes? Off the record conversations are a standard part of legal
proceedings in court. Judges and Lawyers go off the record for diverse
reasons. This a desperate attempt to salvage your lame argument devoid of
evidence.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Mr. BELIN - Now, taking you down to the Dallas Police Station, I believe
you said you talked to Captain Fritz. And then what happened?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I was just more or less introduced to him in Mr.
Sorrels' room, and they told me they were going to conduct a lineup and
wanted me to view it, which I did.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember how many people were in the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - No; I don't. A possibility seven more or less one.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Did you see anyone in the lineup you recognized?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - And what did you say?
Mr. BRENNAN - I told Mr. Sorrels and Captain Fritz at that time that
Oswald--or the man in the lineup that I identified looking more like a
closest resemblance to the man in the window than anyone in the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Were the other people in the lineup, do you remember--were
they all white, or were there some Negroes in there, or what?
Mr. BRENNAN - I do not remember.
Mr. BELIN - As I understand your testimony, then, you said that you told
him that this particular person looked the most like the man you saw on
the sixth floor of the building there.
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - In the meantime, had you seen any pictures of Lee Harvey
Oswald on television or in the newspapers?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, on television.
Mr. BELIN - About when was that, do you believe?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe I reached home quarter to three or something of
that, 15 minutes either way, and I saw his picture twice on television
before I went down to the police station for the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Now, is there anything else you told the officers at the
time of the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I told them I could not make a positive identification.
Mr. BELIN - When you told them that, did you ever later tell any officer
or investigating person anything different?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - When did that happen?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe some days later--I don't recall exactly--and I
believe the Secret Service man identified hisself as being Williams, I
believe, from Houston. I won't swear to that-whether his name was
Williams or not.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BRENNAN - And he could have been an FBI. As far as I remember, it
could have been FBI instead of Secret Service.
But I believe it was a Secret Service man from Houston.
And I--
Mr. BELIN - What did he say to you and what did you say to him?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, he asked me he said, "You said you couldn't make a
positive identification."
He said, "Did you do that for security reasons personally, or couldn't you?"
And I told him I could with all honesty, but I did it more or less for
security reasons--my family and myself.
Mr. BELIN - What do you mean by security reasons for your family and
yourself?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe at that time, and I still believe it was a
Communist activity, and I felt like there hadn't been more than one
eyewitness, and if it got to be a known fact that I was an eyewitness,
my family or I, either one, might not be safe.
Mr. BELIN - Well, if you wouldn't have identified him, might he not have
been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - Beg pardon?
Mr. BELIN - If you would not have identified that man positively, might
he not have been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - No. That had a great contributing factor--greater
contributing factor than my personal reasons was that I already knew
they had the man for murder, and I knew he would not be released.
Mr. BELIN - The murder of whom?
Mr. BRENNAN - Of Officer Tippit.
Mr. BELIN - Well, what happened in between to change your mind that you
later decided to come forth and tell them you could identify him?
Mr. BRENNAN - After Oswald was killed, I was relieved quite a bit that
as far as pressure on myself of somebody not wanting me to identify
anybody, there was no longer that immediate danger.
Mr. BELIN - What is the fact as to whether or not your having seen
Oswald on television would have affected your identification of him one
way or the other?
Mr. BRENNAN - That is something I do not know.
Mr. BELIN - Mr. Brennan, could you tell us now whether you can or cannot
positively identify the man you saw on the sixth floor window as the
same man that you saw in the police station?
Mr. BRENNAN - I could at that time I could, with all sincerity, identify
him as being the same man.
Thank you for proving Brennan had reasons for giving the ambiguous ID of
LHO at this lineup, something we already knew. What you fail to mention
Of course he did, because he was afraid for his family.
Post by claviger
is Brennan saw the man in the 6th floor window twice. Before the parade
Brennan noticed him gazing down the street. When the motorcade was
passing by Brennan heard loud shots and looked up at the 6th floor window
to see the same man with a rifle. So Brennan had two reasons to notice
Yes, after all the shots had been fired, he looked up.
And he saw a man. WOW, I guess that wraps up the case. So we know the
shooter wasn's a woman!
Another amateurish scam on your part. He saw the same guy twice in the
same window.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
the man in the window and immediately gave a description to the police,
who broadcast the APB 15 minutes after shots were fired. This APB closely
Again for the hundreth time, you have absolutely no proof that it was
Brennan's description that the police used. You ASSuME that because it
fits your story, but you can't prove it so stop stating it as a fact. Try
to honest for once in your life.
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Sure, it was Brennan who provided height & weight estimates, though he
could hardly, realistically, have done so. It was Brennan who volunteered
it was a Winchester rifle, though he admitted he knew nothing about guns.
It was Brennan who didn't have a clothing description, as per Sawyer's
APB. Though he provides one in his original affidavit. And Brennan did
not know that the shooter was in the depository, as per Sawyer's 12:46
transmission. Though photos and his affidavit seem to contradict Sawyer.
Sawyer & Brennan--a perfect match!
Didn't one of the APB's mention a Winchester? Maybe THAT was the one
based on Brennan's identification.
CHANNEL 2
Dispatcher Yes, 12:44 p.m.
9 (Inspector J.H. Sawyer) The type of weapon looked like a
30-30 rifle or some type of Winchester.
Dispatcher 9, it was a rifle?
9 A rifle, yes.
Dispatcher 9, any clothing description?
9 About 30, 5'10", 165 pounds.
12:45 Dispatcher Attention Elm and Houston is reported to be an
unknown white male, all squads. Attention all squads. The suspect in the
shooting at approximately thirty, slender build, height five feet ten
inches, weight one hundred sixty-five pounds, reported to be armed with
what is thought to be a 30 caliber rifle. Attention all squads. The
suspect from Elm and Houston is reported to be an unknown white male
about thirty, slender build, five feet ten inches tall, one hundred
sixty-five pounds, armed with what is thought to be a 30-30 rifle. No
further description at this time, or information. 12:45.
Post by donald willis
LNers in denial!
dcw
I was being ironical when I said that Brennan volunteered that the weapon
was a Winchester. I don't think you can find anywhere where he specifies
a brand of weapon....
I'm not following you. I don't get your point. Is the problem that you
don't want to read my posts or that McAdams deletes them so you never get
to see them? Brennan was the only one to call the rifle a Winchester.
That's where the description came from.
Show me where Brennan calls the rifle a Winchester, by name
claviger
2017-08-20 21:46:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
What is said off the record matters even more because they were too afraid
to put it on the record. National Security, you know. Why go off the
record unless it's something they don't want recorded? Your challenges are
whimpy. You should demand that I produce the tapes.
What tapes? Off the record conversations are a standard part of legal
proceedings in court. Judges and Lawyers go off the record for diverse
reasons. This a desperate attempt to salvage your lame argument devoid of
evidence.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Mr. BELIN - Now, taking you down to the Dallas Police Station, I believe
you said you talked to Captain Fritz. And then what happened?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I was just more or less introduced to him in Mr.
Sorrels' room, and they told me they were going to conduct a lineup and
wanted me to view it, which I did.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember how many people were in the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - No; I don't. A possibility seven more or less one.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Did you see anyone in the lineup you recognized?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - And what did you say?
Mr. BRENNAN - I told Mr. Sorrels and Captain Fritz at that time that
Oswald--or the man in the lineup that I identified looking more like a
closest resemblance to the man in the window than anyone in the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Were the other people in the lineup, do you remember--were
they all white, or were there some Negroes in there, or what?
Mr. BRENNAN - I do not remember.
Mr. BELIN - As I understand your testimony, then, you said that you told
him that this particular person looked the most like the man you saw on
the sixth floor of the building there.
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - In the meantime, had you seen any pictures of Lee Harvey
Oswald on television or in the newspapers?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, on television.
Mr. BELIN - About when was that, do you believe?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe I reached home quarter to three or something of
that, 15 minutes either way, and I saw his picture twice on television
before I went down to the police station for the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Now, is there anything else you told the officers at the
time of the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I told them I could not make a positive identification.
Mr. BELIN - When you told them that, did you ever later tell any officer
or investigating person anything different?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - When did that happen?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe some days later--I don't recall exactly--and I
believe the Secret Service man identified hisself as being Williams, I
believe, from Houston. I won't swear to that-whether his name was
Williams or not.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BRENNAN - And he could have been an FBI. As far as I remember, it
could have been FBI instead of Secret Service.
But I believe it was a Secret Service man from Houston.
And I--
Mr. BELIN - What did he say to you and what did you say to him?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, he asked me he said, "You said you couldn't make a
positive identification."
He said, "Did you do that for security reasons personally, or couldn't you?"
And I told him I could with all honesty, but I did it more or less for
security reasons--my family and myself.
Mr. BELIN - What do you mean by security reasons for your family and
yourself?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe at that time, and I still believe it was a
Communist activity, and I felt like there hadn't been more than one
eyewitness, and if it got to be a known fact that I was an eyewitness,
my family or I, either one, might not be safe.
Mr. BELIN - Well, if you wouldn't have identified him, might he not have
been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - Beg pardon?
Mr. BELIN - If you would not have identified that man positively, might
he not have been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - No. That had a great contributing factor--greater
contributing factor than my personal reasons was that I already knew
they had the man for murder, and I knew he would not be released.
Mr. BELIN - The murder of whom?
Mr. BRENNAN - Of Officer Tippit.
Mr. BELIN - Well, what happened in between to change your mind that you
later decided to come forth and tell them you could identify him?
Mr. BRENNAN - After Oswald was killed, I was relieved quite a bit that
as far as pressure on myself of somebody not wanting me to identify
anybody, there was no longer that immediate danger.
Mr. BELIN - What is the fact as to whether or not your having seen
Oswald on television would have affected your identification of him one
way or the other?
Mr. BRENNAN - That is something I do not know.
Mr. BELIN - Mr. Brennan, could you tell us now whether you can or cannot
positively identify the man you saw on the sixth floor window as the
same man that you saw in the police station?
Mr. BRENNAN - I could at that time I could, with all sincerity, identify
him as being the same man.
Thank you for proving Brennan had reasons for giving the ambiguous ID of
LHO at this lineup, something we already knew. What you fail to mention
Of course he did, because he was afraid for his family.
Post by claviger
is Brennan saw the man in the 6th floor window twice. Before the parade
Brennan noticed him gazing down the street. When the motorcade was
passing by Brennan heard loud shots and looked up at the 6th floor window
to see the same man with a rifle. So Brennan had two reasons to notice
Yes, after all the shots had been fired, he looked up.
And he saw a man. WOW, I guess that wraps up the case. So we know the
shooter wasn's a woman!
Another amateurish scam on your part. He saw the same guy twice in the
same window.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
the man in the window and immediately gave a description to the police,
who broadcast the APB 15 minutes after shots were fired. This APB closely
Again for the hundreth time, you have absolutely no proof that it was
Brennan's description that the police used. You ASSuME that because it
fits your story, but you can't prove it so stop stating it as a fact. Try
to honest for once in your life.
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Sure, it was Brennan who provided height & weight estimates, though he
could hardly, realistically, have done so. It was Brennan who volunteered
it was a Winchester rifle, though he admitted he knew nothing about guns.
It was Brennan who didn't have a clothing description, as per Sawyer's
APB. Though he provides one in his original affidavit. And Brennan did
not know that the shooter was in the depository, as per Sawyer's 12:46
transmission. Though photos and his affidavit seem to contradict Sawyer.
Sawyer & Brennan--a perfect match!
Didn't one of the APB's mention a Winchester? Maybe THAT was the one
based on Brennan's identification.
CHANNEL 2
Dispatcher Yes, 12:44 p.m.
9 (Inspector J.H. Sawyer) The type of weapon looked like a
30-30 rifle or some type of Winchester.
Dispatcher 9, it was a rifle?
9 A rifle, yes.
Dispatcher 9, any clothing description?
9 About 30, 5'10", 165 pounds.
12:45 Dispatcher Attention Elm and Houston is reported to be an
unknown white male, all squads. Attention all squads. The suspect in the
shooting at approximately thirty, slender build, height five feet ten
inches, weight one hundred sixty-five pounds, reported to be armed with
what is thought to be a 30 caliber rifle. Attention all squads. The
suspect from Elm and Houston is reported to be an unknown white male
about thirty, slender build, five feet ten inches tall, one hundred
sixty-five pounds, armed with what is thought to be a 30-30 rifle. No
further description at this time, or information. 12:45.
Sawyer was Inspector Clouseau on this case.
donald willis
2017-08-21 20:25:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
What is said off the record matters even more because they were too afraid
to put it on the record. National Security, you know. Why go off the
record unless it's something they don't want recorded? Your challenges are
whimpy. You should demand that I produce the tapes.
What tapes? Off the record conversations are a standard part of legal
proceedings in court. Judges and Lawyers go off the record for diverse
reasons. This a desperate attempt to salvage your lame argument devoid of
evidence.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Mr. BELIN - Now, taking you down to the Dallas Police Station, I believe
you said you talked to Captain Fritz. And then what happened?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I was just more or less introduced to him in Mr.
Sorrels' room, and they told me they were going to conduct a lineup and
wanted me to view it, which I did.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember how many people were in the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - No; I don't. A possibility seven more or less one.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Did you see anyone in the lineup you recognized?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - And what did you say?
Mr. BRENNAN - I told Mr. Sorrels and Captain Fritz at that time that
Oswald--or the man in the lineup that I identified looking more like a
closest resemblance to the man in the window than anyone in the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Were the other people in the lineup, do you remember--were
they all white, or were there some Negroes in there, or what?
Mr. BRENNAN - I do not remember.
Mr. BELIN - As I understand your testimony, then, you said that you told
him that this particular person looked the most like the man you saw on
the sixth floor of the building there.
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - In the meantime, had you seen any pictures of Lee Harvey
Oswald on television or in the newspapers?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, on television.
Mr. BELIN - About when was that, do you believe?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe I reached home quarter to three or something of
that, 15 minutes either way, and I saw his picture twice on television
before I went down to the police station for the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Now, is there anything else you told the officers at the
time of the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I told them I could not make a positive identification.
Mr. BELIN - When you told them that, did you ever later tell any officer
or investigating person anything different?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - When did that happen?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe some days later--I don't recall exactly--and I
believe the Secret Service man identified hisself as being Williams, I
believe, from Houston. I won't swear to that-whether his name was
Williams or not.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BRENNAN - And he could have been an FBI. As far as I remember, it
could have been FBI instead of Secret Service.
But I believe it was a Secret Service man from Houston.
And I--
Mr. BELIN - What did he say to you and what did you say to him?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, he asked me he said, "You said you couldn't make a
positive identification."
He said, "Did you do that for security reasons personally, or couldn't you?"
And I told him I could with all honesty, but I did it more or less for
security reasons--my family and myself.
Mr. BELIN - What do you mean by security reasons for your family and
yourself?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe at that time, and I still believe it was a
Communist activity, and I felt like there hadn't been more than one
eyewitness, and if it got to be a known fact that I was an eyewitness,
my family or I, either one, might not be safe.
Mr. BELIN - Well, if you wouldn't have identified him, might he not have
been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - Beg pardon?
Mr. BELIN - If you would not have identified that man positively, might
he not have been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - No. That had a great contributing factor--greater
contributing factor than my personal reasons was that I already knew
they had the man for murder, and I knew he would not be released.
Mr. BELIN - The murder of whom?
Mr. BRENNAN - Of Officer Tippit.
Mr. BELIN - Well, what happened in between to change your mind that you
later decided to come forth and tell them you could identify him?
Mr. BRENNAN - After Oswald was killed, I was relieved quite a bit that
as far as pressure on myself of somebody not wanting me to identify
anybody, there was no longer that immediate danger.
Mr. BELIN - What is the fact as to whether or not your having seen
Oswald on television would have affected your identification of him one
way or the other?
Mr. BRENNAN - That is something I do not know.
Mr. BELIN - Mr. Brennan, could you tell us now whether you can or cannot
positively identify the man you saw on the sixth floor window as the
same man that you saw in the police station?
Mr. BRENNAN - I could at that time I could, with all sincerity, identify
him as being the same man.
Thank you for proving Brennan had reasons for giving the ambiguous ID of
LHO at this lineup, something we already knew. What you fail to mention
Of course he did, because he was afraid for his family.
Post by claviger
is Brennan saw the man in the 6th floor window twice. Before the parade
Brennan noticed him gazing down the street. When the motorcade was
passing by Brennan heard loud shots and looked up at the 6th floor window
to see the same man with a rifle. So Brennan had two reasons to notice
Yes, after all the shots had been fired, he looked up.
And he saw a man. WOW, I guess that wraps up the case. So we know the
shooter wasn's a woman!
Another amateurish scam on your part. He saw the same guy twice in the
same window.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
the man in the window and immediately gave a description to the police,
who broadcast the APB 15 minutes after shots were fired. This APB closely
Again for the hundreth time, you have absolutely no proof that it was
Brennan's description that the police used. You ASSuME that because it
fits your story, but you can't prove it so stop stating it as a fact. Try
to honest for once in your life.
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Sure, it was Brennan who provided height & weight estimates, though he
could hardly, realistically, have done so. It was Brennan who volunteered
it was a Winchester rifle, though he admitted he knew nothing about guns.
It was Brennan who didn't have a clothing description, as per Sawyer's
APB. Though he provides one in his original affidavit. And Brennan did
not know that the shooter was in the depository, as per Sawyer's 12:46
transmission. Though photos and his affidavit seem to contradict Sawyer.
Sawyer & Brennan--a perfect match!
Didn't one of the APB's mention a Winchester? Maybe THAT was the one
based on Brennan's identification.
CHANNEL 2
Dispatcher Yes, 12:44 p.m.
9 (Inspector J.H. Sawyer) The type of weapon looked like a
30-30 rifle or some type of Winchester.
Dispatcher 9, it was a rifle?
9 A rifle, yes.
Dispatcher 9, any clothing description?
9 About 30, 5'10", 165 pounds.
12:45 Dispatcher Attention Elm and Houston is reported to be an
unknown white male, all squads. Attention all squads. The suspect in the
shooting at approximately thirty, slender build, height five feet ten
inches, weight one hundred sixty-five pounds, reported to be armed with
what is thought to be a 30 caliber rifle. Attention all squads. The
suspect from Elm and Houston is reported to be an unknown white male
about thirty, slender build, five feet ten inches tall, one hundred
sixty-five pounds, armed with what is thought to be a 30-30 rifle. No
further description at this time, or information. 12:45.
Sawyer was Inspector Clouseau on this case.
And Prof. Marsh says he was backed by the Dallas Keystone Cops....
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-22 11:58:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
What is said off the record matters even more because they were too afraid
to put it on the record. National Security, you know. Why go off the
record unless it's something they don't want recorded? Your challenges are
whimpy. You should demand that I produce the tapes.
What tapes? Off the record conversations are a standard part of legal
proceedings in court. Judges and Lawyers go off the record for diverse
reasons. This a desperate attempt to salvage your lame argument devoid of
evidence.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Mr. BELIN - Now, taking you down to the Dallas Police Station, I believe
you said you talked to Captain Fritz. And then what happened?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I was just more or less introduced to him in Mr.
Sorrels' room, and they told me they were going to conduct a lineup and
wanted me to view it, which I did.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember how many people were in the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - No; I don't. A possibility seven more or less one.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Did you see anyone in the lineup you recognized?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - And what did you say?
Mr. BRENNAN - I told Mr. Sorrels and Captain Fritz at that time that
Oswald--or the man in the lineup that I identified looking more like a
closest resemblance to the man in the window than anyone in the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Were the other people in the lineup, do you remember--were
they all white, or were there some Negroes in there, or what?
Mr. BRENNAN - I do not remember.
Mr. BELIN - As I understand your testimony, then, you said that you told
him that this particular person looked the most like the man you saw on
the sixth floor of the building there.
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - In the meantime, had you seen any pictures of Lee Harvey
Oswald on television or in the newspapers?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, on television.
Mr. BELIN - About when was that, do you believe?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe I reached home quarter to three or something of
that, 15 minutes either way, and I saw his picture twice on television
before I went down to the police station for the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Now, is there anything else you told the officers at the
time of the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I told them I could not make a positive identification.
Mr. BELIN - When you told them that, did you ever later tell any officer
or investigating person anything different?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - When did that happen?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe some days later--I don't recall exactly--and I
believe the Secret Service man identified hisself as being Williams, I
believe, from Houston. I won't swear to that-whether his name was
Williams or not.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BRENNAN - And he could have been an FBI. As far as I remember, it
could have been FBI instead of Secret Service.
But I believe it was a Secret Service man from Houston.
And I--
Mr. BELIN - What did he say to you and what did you say to him?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, he asked me he said, "You said you couldn't make a
positive identification."
He said, "Did you do that for security reasons personally, or couldn't you?"
And I told him I could with all honesty, but I did it more or less for
security reasons--my family and myself.
Mr. BELIN - What do you mean by security reasons for your family and
yourself?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe at that time, and I still believe it was a
Communist activity, and I felt like there hadn't been more than one
eyewitness, and if it got to be a known fact that I was an eyewitness,
my family or I, either one, might not be safe.
Mr. BELIN - Well, if you wouldn't have identified him, might he not have
been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - Beg pardon?
Mr. BELIN - If you would not have identified that man positively, might
he not have been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - No. That had a great contributing factor--greater
contributing factor than my personal reasons was that I already knew
they had the man for murder, and I knew he would not be released.
Mr. BELIN - The murder of whom?
Mr. BRENNAN - Of Officer Tippit.
Mr. BELIN - Well, what happened in between to change your mind that you
later decided to come forth and tell them you could identify him?
Mr. BRENNAN - After Oswald was killed, I was relieved quite a bit that
as far as pressure on myself of somebody not wanting me to identify
anybody, there was no longer that immediate danger.
Mr. BELIN - What is the fact as to whether or not your having seen
Oswald on television would have affected your identification of him one
way or the other?
Mr. BRENNAN - That is something I do not know.
Mr. BELIN - Mr. Brennan, could you tell us now whether you can or cannot
positively identify the man you saw on the sixth floor window as the
same man that you saw in the police station?
Mr. BRENNAN - I could at that time I could, with all sincerity, identify
him as being the same man.
Thank you for proving Brennan had reasons for giving the ambiguous ID of
LHO at this lineup, something we already knew. What you fail to mention
Of course he did, because he was afraid for his family.
Post by claviger
is Brennan saw the man in the 6th floor window twice. Before the parade
Brennan noticed him gazing down the street. When the motorcade was
passing by Brennan heard loud shots and looked up at the 6th floor window
to see the same man with a rifle. So Brennan had two reasons to notice
Yes, after all the shots had been fired, he looked up.
And he saw a man. WOW, I guess that wraps up the case. So we know the
shooter wasn's a woman!
Another amateurish scam on your part. He saw the same guy twice in the
same window.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
the man in the window and immediately gave a description to the police,
who broadcast the APB 15 minutes after shots were fired. This APB closely
Again for the hundreth time, you have absolutely no proof that it was
Brennan's description that the police used. You ASSuME that because it
fits your story, but you can't prove it so stop stating it as a fact. Try
to honest for once in your life.
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Sure, it was Brennan who provided height & weight estimates, though he
could hardly, realistically, have done so. It was Brennan who volunteered
it was a Winchester rifle, though he admitted he knew nothing about guns.
It was Brennan who didn't have a clothing description, as per Sawyer's
APB. Though he provides one in his original affidavit. And Brennan did
not know that the shooter was in the depository, as per Sawyer's 12:46
transmission. Though photos and his affidavit seem to contradict Sawyer.
Sawyer & Brennan--a perfect match!
Didn't one of the APB's mention a Winchester? Maybe THAT was the one
based on Brennan's identification.
CHANNEL 2
Dispatcher Yes, 12:44 p.m.
9 (Inspector J.H. Sawyer) The type of weapon looked like a
30-30 rifle or some type of Winchester.
Dispatcher 9, it was a rifle?
9 A rifle, yes.
Dispatcher 9, any clothing description?
9 About 30, 5'10", 165 pounds.
12:45 Dispatcher Attention Elm and Houston is reported to be an
unknown white male, all squads. Attention all squads. The suspect in the
shooting at approximately thirty, slender build, height five feet ten
inches, weight one hundred sixty-five pounds, reported to be armed with
what is thought to be a 30 caliber rifle. Attention all squads. The
suspect from Elm and Houston is reported to be an unknown white male
about thirty, slender build, five feet ten inches tall, one hundred
sixty-five pounds, armed with what is thought to be a 30-30 rifle. No
further description at this time, or information. 12:45.
Sawyer was Inspector Clouseau on this case.
How rude. The point is not how stupid Sawyer was, but where did he get
his information, or misinformation. Can we vote on it?
claviger
2017-08-20 18:22:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
What is said off the record matters even more because they were too afraid
to put it on the record. National Security, you know. Why go off the
record unless it's something they don't want recorded? Your challenges are
whimpy. You should demand that I produce the tapes.
What tapes? Off the record conversations are a standard part of legal
proceedings in court. Judges and Lawyers go off the record for diverse
reasons. This a desperate attempt to salvage your lame argument devoid of
evidence.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Mr. BELIN - Now, taking you down to the Dallas Police Station, I believe
you said you talked to Captain Fritz. And then what happened?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I was just more or less introduced to him in Mr.
Sorrels' room, and they told me they were going to conduct a lineup and
wanted me to view it, which I did.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember how many people were in the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - No; I don't. A possibility seven more or less one.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Did you see anyone in the lineup you recognized?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - And what did you say?
Mr. BRENNAN - I told Mr. Sorrels and Captain Fritz at that time that
Oswald--or the man in the lineup that I identified looking more like a
closest resemblance to the man in the window than anyone in the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Were the other people in the lineup, do you remember--were
they all white, or were there some Negroes in there, or what?
Mr. BRENNAN - I do not remember.
Mr. BELIN - As I understand your testimony, then, you said that you told
him that this particular person looked the most like the man you saw on
the sixth floor of the building there.
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - In the meantime, had you seen any pictures of Lee Harvey
Oswald on television or in the newspapers?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, on television.
Mr. BELIN - About when was that, do you believe?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe I reached home quarter to three or something of
that, 15 minutes either way, and I saw his picture twice on television
before I went down to the police station for the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Now, is there anything else you told the officers at the
time of the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I told them I could not make a positive identification.
Mr. BELIN - When you told them that, did you ever later tell any officer
or investigating person anything different?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - When did that happen?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe some days later--I don't recall exactly--and I
believe the Secret Service man identified hisself as being Williams, I
believe, from Houston. I won't swear to that-whether his name was
Williams or not.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BRENNAN - And he could have been an FBI. As far as I remember, it
could have been FBI instead of Secret Service.
But I believe it was a Secret Service man from Houston.
And I--
Mr. BELIN - What did he say to you and what did you say to him?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, he asked me he said, "You said you couldn't make a
positive identification."
He said, "Did you do that for security reasons personally, or couldn't you?"
And I told him I could with all honesty, but I did it more or less for
security reasons--my family and myself.
Mr. BELIN - What do you mean by security reasons for your family and
yourself?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe at that time, and I still believe it was a
Communist activity, and I felt like there hadn't been more than one
eyewitness, and if it got to be a known fact that I was an eyewitness,
my family or I, either one, might not be safe.
Mr. BELIN - Well, if you wouldn't have identified him, might he not have
been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - Beg pardon?
Mr. BELIN - If you would not have identified that man positively, might
he not have been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - No. That had a great contributing factor--greater
contributing factor than my personal reasons was that I already knew
they had the man for murder, and I knew he would not be released.
Mr. BELIN - The murder of whom?
Mr. BRENNAN - Of Officer Tippit.
Mr. BELIN - Well, what happened in between to change your mind that you
later decided to come forth and tell them you could identify him?
Mr. BRENNAN - After Oswald was killed, I was relieved quite a bit that
as far as pressure on myself of somebody not wanting me to identify
anybody, there was no longer that immediate danger.
Mr. BELIN - What is the fact as to whether or not your having seen
Oswald on television would have affected your identification of him one
way or the other?
Mr. BRENNAN - That is something I do not know.
Mr. BELIN - Mr. Brennan, could you tell us now whether you can or cannot
positively identify the man you saw on the sixth floor window as the
same man that you saw in the police station?
Mr. BRENNAN - I could at that time I could, with all sincerity, identify
him as being the same man.
Thank you for proving Brennan had reasons for giving the ambiguous ID of
LHO at this lineup, something we already knew. What you fail to mention
Of course he did, because he was afraid for his family.
Post by claviger
is Brennan saw the man in the 6th floor window twice. Before the parade
Brennan noticed him gazing down the street. When the motorcade was
passing by Brennan heard loud shots and looked up at the 6th floor window
to see the same man with a rifle. So Brennan had two reasons to notice
Yes, after all the shots had been fired, he looked up.
And he saw a man. WOW, I guess that wraps up the case. So we know the
shooter wasn's a woman!
Another amateurish scam on your part. He saw the same guy twice in the
same window.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
the man in the window and immediately gave a description to the police,
who broadcast the APB 15 minutes after shots were fired. This APB closely
Again for the hundreth time, you have absolutely no proof that it was
Brennan's description that the police used. You ASSuME that because it
fits your story, but you can't prove it so stop stating it as a fact. Try
to honest for once in your life.
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Sure, it was Brennan who provided height & weight estimates, though he
could hardly, realistically, have done so.
This is old news. Brennan's description was not perfect. Witnesses
seldom get 100% right. He was probably asked the weight by the police
officer and guessed wrong. Brennan estimated height was 5'10". LHO was
5"9" tall. DPD Baker got it right with LHO standing right in front of
him, so a very good guess by Brennan down on the street.
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who volunteered it was a Winchester rifle, though he
admitted he knew nothing about guns.
Cite please.
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who didn't have a clothing description, as per Sawyer's
APB. Though he provides one in his original affidavit.
So maybe it was Sawyer's mistake.
Post by donald willis
And Brennan did not know that the shooter was in the depository, as per
Sawyer's 12:46 transmission.
Obviously Sawyer's mistake.
Post by donald willis
Though photos and his affidavit seem to contradict Sawyer.
Yes indeed.
Post by donald willis
Sawyer & Brennan--a perfect match!
Opposites attract.
Post by donald willis
LNers in denial!
CTs groping for anything to discredit Brennan.
Post by donald willis
dcw
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-21 14:34:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
What is said off the record matters even more because they were too afraid
to put it on the record. National Security, you know. Why go off the
record unless it's something they don't want recorded? Your challenges are
whimpy. You should demand that I produce the tapes.
What tapes? Off the record conversations are a standard part of legal
proceedings in court. Judges and Lawyers go off the record for diverse
reasons. This a desperate attempt to salvage your lame argument devoid of
evidence.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Mr. BELIN - Now, taking you down to the Dallas Police Station, I believe
you said you talked to Captain Fritz. And then what happened?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I was just more or less introduced to him in Mr.
Sorrels' room, and they told me they were going to conduct a lineup and
wanted me to view it, which I did.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember how many people were in the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - No; I don't. A possibility seven more or less one.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Did you see anyone in the lineup you recognized?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - And what did you say?
Mr. BRENNAN - I told Mr. Sorrels and Captain Fritz at that time that
Oswald--or the man in the lineup that I identified looking more like a
closest resemblance to the man in the window than anyone in the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Were the other people in the lineup, do you remember--were
they all white, or were there some Negroes in there, or what?
Mr. BRENNAN - I do not remember.
Mr. BELIN - As I understand your testimony, then, you said that you told
him that this particular person looked the most like the man you saw on
the sixth floor of the building there.
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - In the meantime, had you seen any pictures of Lee Harvey
Oswald on television or in the newspapers?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, on television.
Mr. BELIN - About when was that, do you believe?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe I reached home quarter to three or something of
that, 15 minutes either way, and I saw his picture twice on television
before I went down to the police station for the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Now, is there anything else you told the officers at the
time of the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I told them I could not make a positive identification.
Mr. BELIN - When you told them that, did you ever later tell any officer
or investigating person anything different?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - When did that happen?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe some days later--I don't recall exactly--and I
believe the Secret Service man identified hisself as being Williams, I
believe, from Houston. I won't swear to that-whether his name was
Williams or not.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BRENNAN - And he could have been an FBI. As far as I remember, it
could have been FBI instead of Secret Service.
But I believe it was a Secret Service man from Houston.
And I--
Mr. BELIN - What did he say to you and what did you say to him?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, he asked me he said, "You said you couldn't make a
positive identification."
He said, "Did you do that for security reasons personally, or couldn't you?"
And I told him I could with all honesty, but I did it more or less for
security reasons--my family and myself.
Mr. BELIN - What do you mean by security reasons for your family and
yourself?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe at that time, and I still believe it was a
Communist activity, and I felt like there hadn't been more than one
eyewitness, and if it got to be a known fact that I was an eyewitness,
my family or I, either one, might not be safe.
Mr. BELIN - Well, if you wouldn't have identified him, might he not have
been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - Beg pardon?
Mr. BELIN - If you would not have identified that man positively, might
he not have been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - No. That had a great contributing factor--greater
contributing factor than my personal reasons was that I already knew
they had the man for murder, and I knew he would not be released.
Mr. BELIN - The murder of whom?
Mr. BRENNAN - Of Officer Tippit.
Mr. BELIN - Well, what happened in between to change your mind that you
later decided to come forth and tell them you could identify him?
Mr. BRENNAN - After Oswald was killed, I was relieved quite a bit that
as far as pressure on myself of somebody not wanting me to identify
anybody, there was no longer that immediate danger.
Mr. BELIN - What is the fact as to whether or not your having seen
Oswald on television would have affected your identification of him one
way or the other?
Mr. BRENNAN - That is something I do not know.
Mr. BELIN - Mr. Brennan, could you tell us now whether you can or cannot
positively identify the man you saw on the sixth floor window as the
same man that you saw in the police station?
Mr. BRENNAN - I could at that time I could, with all sincerity, identify
him as being the same man.
Thank you for proving Brennan had reasons for giving the ambiguous ID of
LHO at this lineup, something we already knew. What you fail to mention
Of course he did, because he was afraid for his family.
Post by claviger
is Brennan saw the man in the 6th floor window twice. Before the parade
Brennan noticed him gazing down the street. When the motorcade was
passing by Brennan heard loud shots and looked up at the 6th floor window
to see the same man with a rifle. So Brennan had two reasons to notice
Yes, after all the shots had been fired, he looked up.
And he saw a man. WOW, I guess that wraps up the case. So we know the
shooter wasn's a woman!
Another amateurish scam on your part. He saw the same guy twice in the
same window.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
the man in the window and immediately gave a description to the police,
who broadcast the APB 15 minutes after shots were fired. This APB closely
Again for the hundreth time, you have absolutely no proof that it was
Brennan's description that the police used. You ASSuME that because it
fits your story, but you can't prove it so stop stating it as a fact. Try
to honest for once in your life.
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Sure, it was Brennan who provided height & weight estimates, though he
could hardly, realistically, have done so.
This is old news. Brennan's description was not perfect. Witnesses
seldom get 100% right. He was probably asked the weight by the police
officer and guessed wrong. Brennan estimated height was 5'10". LHO was
5"9" tall. DPD Baker got it right with LHO standing right in front of
Or was he? [cue Mark Snow music] (obscure reference to The X-Files) If you
try hard enough you could find come crazy theories about a second Oswald
or a KGB replacement Oswald who was not 5'9" tall, but actually 5'10"
tall. And if you want to be a really hip apologist you could claim that
Oswald grew an inch taller from when the Marines FALSELY measured his
height to when he was in the TSBD. Or maybe he was standing on bricks or
something. Try harder.

Just never admit that Brennan never actually saw Oswald in the window.
Post by claviger
him, so a very good guess by Brennan down on the street.
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who volunteered it was a Winchester rifle, though he
admitted he knew nothing about guns.
Cite please.
WC. Interviews. Google.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who didn't have a clothing description, as per Sawyer's
APB. Though he provides one in his original affidavit.
So maybe it was Sawyer's mistake.
I don't think Sawyer just made it up. Someone said it.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And Brennan did not know that the shooter was in the depository, as per
Sawyer's 12:46 transmission.
Obviously Sawyer's mistake
Cops make mistakes all the time. Forgive them and move on.

.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Though photos and his affidavit seem to contradict Sawyer.
Yes indeed.
Post by donald willis
Sawyer & Brennan--a perfect match!
Opposites attract.
Post by donald willis
LNers in denial!
CTs groping for anything to discredit Brennan.
He discredited himself.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
dcw
donald willis
2017-08-22 11:58:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
What is said off the record matters even more because they were too afraid
to put it on the record. National Security, you know. Why go off the
record unless it's something they don't want recorded? Your challenges are
whimpy. You should demand that I produce the tapes.
What tapes? Off the record conversations are a standard part of legal
proceedings in court. Judges and Lawyers go off the record for diverse
reasons. This a desperate attempt to salvage your lame argument devoid of
evidence.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Mr. BELIN - Now, taking you down to the Dallas Police Station, I believe
you said you talked to Captain Fritz. And then what happened?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I was just more or less introduced to him in Mr.
Sorrels' room, and they told me they were going to conduct a lineup and
wanted me to view it, which I did.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember how many people were in the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - No; I don't. A possibility seven more or less one.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Did you see anyone in the lineup you recognized?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - And what did you say?
Mr. BRENNAN - I told Mr. Sorrels and Captain Fritz at that time that
Oswald--or the man in the lineup that I identified looking more like a
closest resemblance to the man in the window than anyone in the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Were the other people in the lineup, do you remember--were
they all white, or were there some Negroes in there, or what?
Mr. BRENNAN - I do not remember.
Mr. BELIN - As I understand your testimony, then, you said that you told
him that this particular person looked the most like the man you saw on
the sixth floor of the building there.
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - In the meantime, had you seen any pictures of Lee Harvey
Oswald on television or in the newspapers?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, on television.
Mr. BELIN - About when was that, do you believe?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe I reached home quarter to three or something of
that, 15 minutes either way, and I saw his picture twice on television
before I went down to the police station for the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Now, is there anything else you told the officers at the
time of the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I told them I could not make a positive identification.
Mr. BELIN - When you told them that, did you ever later tell any officer
or investigating person anything different?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - When did that happen?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe some days later--I don't recall exactly--and I
believe the Secret Service man identified hisself as being Williams, I
believe, from Houston. I won't swear to that-whether his name was
Williams or not.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BRENNAN - And he could have been an FBI. As far as I remember, it
could have been FBI instead of Secret Service.
But I believe it was a Secret Service man from Houston.
And I--
Mr. BELIN - What did he say to you and what did you say to him?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, he asked me he said, "You said you couldn't make a
positive identification."
He said, "Did you do that for security reasons personally, or couldn't you?"
And I told him I could with all honesty, but I did it more or less for
security reasons--my family and myself.
Mr. BELIN - What do you mean by security reasons for your family and
yourself?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe at that time, and I still believe it was a
Communist activity, and I felt like there hadn't been more than one
eyewitness, and if it got to be a known fact that I was an eyewitness,
my family or I, either one, might not be safe.
Mr. BELIN - Well, if you wouldn't have identified him, might he not have
been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - Beg pardon?
Mr. BELIN - If you would not have identified that man positively, might
he not have been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - No. That had a great contributing factor--greater
contributing factor than my personal reasons was that I already knew
they had the man for murder, and I knew he would not be released.
Mr. BELIN - The murder of whom?
Mr. BRENNAN - Of Officer Tippit.
Mr. BELIN - Well, what happened in between to change your mind that you
later decided to come forth and tell them you could identify him?
Mr. BRENNAN - After Oswald was killed, I was relieved quite a bit that
as far as pressure on myself of somebody not wanting me to identify
anybody, there was no longer that immediate danger.
Mr. BELIN - What is the fact as to whether or not your having seen
Oswald on television would have affected your identification of him one
way or the other?
Mr. BRENNAN - That is something I do not know.
Mr. BELIN - Mr. Brennan, could you tell us now whether you can or cannot
positively identify the man you saw on the sixth floor window as the
same man that you saw in the police station?
Mr. BRENNAN - I could at that time I could, with all sincerity, identify
him as being the same man.
Thank you for proving Brennan had reasons for giving the ambiguous ID of
LHO at this lineup, something we already knew. What you fail to mention
Of course he did, because he was afraid for his family.
Post by claviger
is Brennan saw the man in the 6th floor window twice. Before the parade
Brennan noticed him gazing down the street. When the motorcade was
passing by Brennan heard loud shots and looked up at the 6th floor window
to see the same man with a rifle. So Brennan had two reasons to notice
Yes, after all the shots had been fired, he looked up.
And he saw a man. WOW, I guess that wraps up the case. So we know the
shooter wasn's a woman!
Another amateurish scam on your part. He saw the same guy twice in the
same window.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
the man in the window and immediately gave a description to the police,
who broadcast the APB 15 minutes after shots were fired. This APB closely
Again for the hundreth time, you have absolutely no proof that it was
Brennan's description that the police used. You ASSuME that because it
fits your story, but you can't prove it so stop stating it as a fact. Try
to honest for once in your life.
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Sure, it was Brennan who provided height & weight estimates, though he
could hardly, realistically, have done so.
This is old news. Brennan's description was not perfect. Witnesses
seldom get 100% right. He was probably asked the weight by the police
officer and guessed wrong. Brennan estimated height was 5'10". LHO was
5"9" tall. DPD Baker got it right with LHO standing right in front of
Or was he? [cue Mark Snow music] (obscure reference to The X-Files) If you
try hard enough you could find come crazy theories about a second Oswald
or a KGB replacement Oswald who was not 5'9" tall, but actually 5'10"
tall. And if you want to be a really hip apologist you could claim that
Oswald grew an inch taller from when the Marines FALSELY measured his
height to when he was in the TSBD. Or maybe he was standing on bricks or
something. Try harder.
Just never admit that Brennan never actually saw Oswald in the window.
Post by claviger
him, so a very good guess by Brennan down on the street.
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who volunteered it was a Winchester rifle, though he
admitted he knew nothing about guns.
Cite please.
WC. Interviews. Google.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who didn't have a clothing description, as per Sawyer's
APB. Though he provides one in his original affidavit.
So maybe it was Sawyer's mistake.
I don't think Sawyer just made it up. Someone said it.
All the made-up crap about the suspect's height & weight is irrelevant.
The conspirators simply wanted the phrase "slender white male" put on the
airwaves. The rest is a distraction. The conspirators didn't care if the
made-up crap made the witness and Sawyer look goofy, as long as they got
the three words which they wanted....

dcw
claviger
2017-08-22 23:25:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
What is said off the record matters even more because they were too afraid
to put it on the record. National Security, you know. Why go off the
record unless it's something they don't want recorded? Your challenges are
whimpy. You should demand that I produce the tapes.
What tapes? Off the record conversations are a standard part of legal
proceedings in court. Judges and Lawyers go off the record for diverse
reasons. This a desperate attempt to salvage your lame argument devoid of
evidence.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Mr. BELIN - Now, taking you down to the Dallas Police Station, I believe
you said you talked to Captain Fritz. And then what happened?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I was just more or less introduced to him in Mr.
Sorrels' room, and they told me they were going to conduct a lineup and
wanted me to view it, which I did.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember how many people were in the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - No; I don't. A possibility seven more or less one.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Did you see anyone in the lineup you recognized?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - And what did you say?
Mr. BRENNAN - I told Mr. Sorrels and Captain Fritz at that time that
Oswald--or the man in the lineup that I identified looking more like a
closest resemblance to the man in the window than anyone in the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Were the other people in the lineup, do you remember--were
they all white, or were there some Negroes in there, or what?
Mr. BRENNAN - I do not remember.
Mr. BELIN - As I understand your testimony, then, you said that you told
him that this particular person looked the most like the man you saw on
the sixth floor of the building there.
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - In the meantime, had you seen any pictures of Lee Harvey
Oswald on television or in the newspapers?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, on television.
Mr. BELIN - About when was that, do you believe?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe I reached home quarter to three or something of
that, 15 minutes either way, and I saw his picture twice on television
before I went down to the police station for the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Now, is there anything else you told the officers at the
time of the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I told them I could not make a positive identification.
Mr. BELIN - When you told them that, did you ever later tell any officer
or investigating person anything different?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - When did that happen?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe some days later--I don't recall exactly--and I
believe the Secret Service man identified hisself as being Williams, I
believe, from Houston. I won't swear to that-whether his name was
Williams or not.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BRENNAN - And he could have been an FBI. As far as I remember, it
could have been FBI instead of Secret Service.
But I believe it was a Secret Service man from Houston.
And I--
Mr. BELIN - What did he say to you and what did you say to him?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, he asked me he said, "You said you couldn't make a
positive identification."
He said, "Did you do that for security reasons personally, or couldn't you?"
And I told him I could with all honesty, but I did it more or less for
security reasons--my family and myself.
Mr. BELIN - What do you mean by security reasons for your family and
yourself?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe at that time, and I still believe it was a
Communist activity, and I felt like there hadn't been more than one
eyewitness, and if it got to be a known fact that I was an eyewitness,
my family or I, either one, might not be safe.
Mr. BELIN - Well, if you wouldn't have identified him, might he not have
been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - Beg pardon?
Mr. BELIN - If you would not have identified that man positively, might
he not have been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - No. That had a great contributing factor--greater
contributing factor than my personal reasons was that I already knew
they had the man for murder, and I knew he would not be released.
Mr. BELIN - The murder of whom?
Mr. BRENNAN - Of Officer Tippit.
Mr. BELIN - Well, what happened in between to change your mind that you
later decided to come forth and tell them you could identify him?
Mr. BRENNAN - After Oswald was killed, I was relieved quite a bit that
as far as pressure on myself of somebody not wanting me to identify
anybody, there was no longer that immediate danger.
Mr. BELIN - What is the fact as to whether or not your having seen
Oswald on television would have affected your identification of him one
way or the other?
Mr. BRENNAN - That is something I do not know.
Mr. BELIN - Mr. Brennan, could you tell us now whether you can or cannot
positively identify the man you saw on the sixth floor window as the
same man that you saw in the police station?
Mr. BRENNAN - I could at that time I could, with all sincerity, identify
him as being the same man.
Thank you for proving Brennan had reasons for giving the ambiguous ID of
LHO at this lineup, something we already knew. What you fail to mention
Of course he did, because he was afraid for his family.
Post by claviger
is Brennan saw the man in the 6th floor window twice. Before the parade
Brennan noticed him gazing down the street. When the motorcade was
passing by Brennan heard loud shots and looked up at the 6th floor window
to see the same man with a rifle. So Brennan had two reasons to notice
Yes, after all the shots had been fired, he looked up.
And he saw a man. WOW, I guess that wraps up the case. So we know the
shooter wasn's a woman!
Another amateurish scam on your part. He saw the same guy twice in the
same window.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
the man in the window and immediately gave a description to the police,
who broadcast the APB 15 minutes after shots were fired. This APB closely
Again for the hundreth time, you have absolutely no proof that it was
Brennan's description that the police used. You ASSuME that because it
fits your story, but you can't prove it so stop stating it as a fact. Try
to honest for once in your life.
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Sure, it was Brennan who provided height & weight estimates, though he
could hardly, realistically, have done so.
This is old news. Brennan's description was not perfect. Witnesses
seldom get 100% right. He was probably asked the weight by the police
officer and guessed wrong. Brennan estimated height was 5'10". LHO was
5"9" tall. DPD Baker got it right with LHO standing right in front of
Or was he? [cue Mark Snow music] (obscure reference to The X-Files) If you
try hard enough you could find come crazy theories about a second Oswald
or a KGB replacement Oswald who was not 5'9" tall, but actually 5'10"
tall. And if you want to be a really hip apologist you could claim that
Oswald grew an inch taller from when the Marines FALSELY measured his
height to when he was in the TSBD. Or maybe he was standing on bricks or
something. Try harder.
Just never admit that Brennan never actually saw Oswald in the window.
Post by claviger
him, so a very good guess by Brennan down on the street.
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who volunteered it was a Winchester rifle, though he
admitted he knew nothing about guns.
Cite please.
WC. Interviews. Google.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who didn't have a clothing description, as per Sawyer's
APB. Though he provides one in his original affidavit.
So maybe it was Sawyer's mistake.
I don't think Sawyer just made it up. Someone said it.
All the made-up crap about the suspect's height & weight is irrelevant.
The conspirators simply wanted the phrase "slender white male" put on the
airwaves. The rest is a distraction. The conspirators didn't care if the
made-up crap made the witness and Sawyer look goofy, as long as they got
the three words which they wanted....
dcw
Are you saying Brennan and the DPD were part of a preplanned conspiracy?
If so why didn't Brennan give a better description of the perp and his
rifle?
donald willis
2017-08-23 22:19:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
What is said off the record matters even more because they were too afraid
to put it on the record. National Security, you know. Why go off the
record unless it's something they don't want recorded? Your challenges are
whimpy. You should demand that I produce the tapes.
What tapes? Off the record conversations are a standard part of legal
proceedings in court. Judges and Lawyers go off the record for diverse
reasons. This a desperate attempt to salvage your lame argument devoid of
evidence.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Mr. BELIN - Now, taking you down to the Dallas Police Station, I believe
you said you talked to Captain Fritz. And then what happened?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I was just more or less introduced to him in Mr.
Sorrels' room, and they told me they were going to conduct a lineup and
wanted me to view it, which I did.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember how many people were in the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - No; I don't. A possibility seven more or less one.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Did you see anyone in the lineup you recognized?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - And what did you say?
Mr. BRENNAN - I told Mr. Sorrels and Captain Fritz at that time that
Oswald--or the man in the lineup that I identified looking more like a
closest resemblance to the man in the window than anyone in the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Were the other people in the lineup, do you remember--were
they all white, or were there some Negroes in there, or what?
Mr. BRENNAN - I do not remember.
Mr. BELIN - As I understand your testimony, then, you said that you told
him that this particular person looked the most like the man you saw on
the sixth floor of the building there.
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - In the meantime, had you seen any pictures of Lee Harvey
Oswald on television or in the newspapers?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, on television.
Mr. BELIN - About when was that, do you believe?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe I reached home quarter to three or something of
that, 15 minutes either way, and I saw his picture twice on television
before I went down to the police station for the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Now, is there anything else you told the officers at the
time of the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I told them I could not make a positive identification.
Mr. BELIN - When you told them that, did you ever later tell any officer
or investigating person anything different?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - When did that happen?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe some days later--I don't recall exactly--and I
believe the Secret Service man identified hisself as being Williams, I
believe, from Houston. I won't swear to that-whether his name was
Williams or not.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BRENNAN - And he could have been an FBI. As far as I remember, it
could have been FBI instead of Secret Service.
But I believe it was a Secret Service man from Houston.
And I--
Mr. BELIN - What did he say to you and what did you say to him?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, he asked me he said, "You said you couldn't make a
positive identification."
He said, "Did you do that for security reasons personally, or couldn't you?"
And I told him I could with all honesty, but I did it more or less for
security reasons--my family and myself.
Mr. BELIN - What do you mean by security reasons for your family and
yourself?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe at that time, and I still believe it was a
Communist activity, and I felt like there hadn't been more than one
eyewitness, and if it got to be a known fact that I was an eyewitness,
my family or I, either one, might not be safe.
Mr. BELIN - Well, if you wouldn't have identified him, might he not have
been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - Beg pardon?
Mr. BELIN - If you would not have identified that man positively, might
he not have been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - No. That had a great contributing factor--greater
contributing factor than my personal reasons was that I already knew
they had the man for murder, and I knew he would not be released.
Mr. BELIN - The murder of whom?
Mr. BRENNAN - Of Officer Tippit.
Mr. BELIN - Well, what happened in between to change your mind that you
later decided to come forth and tell them you could identify him?
Mr. BRENNAN - After Oswald was killed, I was relieved quite a bit that
as far as pressure on myself of somebody not wanting me to identify
anybody, there was no longer that immediate danger.
Mr. BELIN - What is the fact as to whether or not your having seen
Oswald on television would have affected your identification of him one
way or the other?
Mr. BRENNAN - That is something I do not know.
Mr. BELIN - Mr. Brennan, could you tell us now whether you can or cannot
positively identify the man you saw on the sixth floor window as the
same man that you saw in the police station?
Mr. BRENNAN - I could at that time I could, with all sincerity, identify
him as being the same man.
Thank you for proving Brennan had reasons for giving the ambiguous ID of
LHO at this lineup, something we already knew. What you fail to mention
Of course he did, because he was afraid for his family.
Post by claviger
is Brennan saw the man in the 6th floor window twice. Before the parade
Brennan noticed him gazing down the street. When the motorcade was
passing by Brennan heard loud shots and looked up at the 6th floor window
to see the same man with a rifle. So Brennan had two reasons to notice
Yes, after all the shots had been fired, he looked up.
And he saw a man. WOW, I guess that wraps up the case. So we know the
shooter wasn's a woman!
Another amateurish scam on your part. He saw the same guy twice in the
same window.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
the man in the window and immediately gave a description to the police,
who broadcast the APB 15 minutes after shots were fired. This APB closely
Again for the hundreth time, you have absolutely no proof that it was
Brennan's description that the police used. You ASSuME that because it
fits your story, but you can't prove it so stop stating it as a fact. Try
to honest for once in your life.
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Sure, it was Brennan who provided height & weight estimates, though he
could hardly, realistically, have done so.
This is old news. Brennan's description was not perfect. Witnesses
seldom get 100% right. He was probably asked the weight by the police
officer and guessed wrong. Brennan estimated height was 5'10". LHO was
5"9" tall. DPD Baker got it right with LHO standing right in front of
Or was he? [cue Mark Snow music] (obscure reference to The X-Files) If you
try hard enough you could find come crazy theories about a second Oswald
or a KGB replacement Oswald who was not 5'9" tall, but actually 5'10"
tall. And if you want to be a really hip apologist you could claim that
Oswald grew an inch taller from when the Marines FALSELY measured his
height to when he was in the TSBD. Or maybe he was standing on bricks or
something. Try harder.
Just never admit that Brennan never actually saw Oswald in the window.
Post by claviger
him, so a very good guess by Brennan down on the street.
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who volunteered it was a Winchester rifle, though he
admitted he knew nothing about guns.
Cite please.
WC. Interviews. Google.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who didn't have a clothing description, as per Sawyer's
APB. Though he provides one in his original affidavit.
So maybe it was Sawyer's mistake.
I don't think Sawyer just made it up. Someone said it.
All the made-up crap about the suspect's height & weight is irrelevant.
The conspirators simply wanted the phrase "slender white male" put on the
airwaves. The rest is a distraction. The conspirators didn't care if the
made-up crap made the witness and Sawyer look goofy, as long as they got
the three words which they wanted....
dcw
Are you saying Brennan and the DPD were part of a preplanned conspiracy?
Hardly. They had to shoehorn Brennan, after the fact, into the pre-fab
12:34 witness description. They wanted to put a face on the "facts" in
the APB, even if Brennan obviously couldn't fit them all. But there was
really no one else who had seen as much as Brennan did--that is, saw
someone *before* the shooting *and after*, if not the same person....
Obviously, if Brennan had been in on it beforehand, he would have been
advised not to say that the shooter was standing up! Or was that O'Reilly
who said that? Or both?

If by "the DPD" you mean Fritz & Sawyer, though.... Fritz, I maintain, was
at the heart of it; Sawyer was just given a suspect description to read,
and probably was not even told why. He comes off as the Dallas Clouseau
because he was so focused on his little speech that (as you know) he was
oblivious of what was actually going on around him!

dcw
claviger
2017-08-24 22:52:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
What is said off the record matters even more because they were too afraid
to put it on the record. National Security, you know. Why go off the
record unless it's something they don't want recorded? Your challenges are
whimpy. You should demand that I produce the tapes.
What tapes? Off the record conversations are a standard part of legal
proceedings in court. Judges and Lawyers go off the record for diverse
reasons. This a desperate attempt to salvage your lame argument devoid of
evidence.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Mr. BELIN - Now, taking you down to the Dallas Police Station, I believe
you said you talked to Captain Fritz. And then what happened?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I was just more or less introduced to him in Mr.
Sorrels' room, and they told me they were going to conduct a lineup and
wanted me to view it, which I did.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember how many people were in the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - No; I don't. A possibility seven more or less one.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Did you see anyone in the lineup you recognized?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - And what did you say?
Mr. BRENNAN - I told Mr. Sorrels and Captain Fritz at that time that
Oswald--or the man in the lineup that I identified looking more like a
closest resemblance to the man in the window than anyone in the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Were the other people in the lineup, do you remember--were
they all white, or were there some Negroes in there, or what?
Mr. BRENNAN - I do not remember.
Mr. BELIN - As I understand your testimony, then, you said that you told
him that this particular person looked the most like the man you saw on
the sixth floor of the building there.
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - In the meantime, had you seen any pictures of Lee Harvey
Oswald on television or in the newspapers?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, on television.
Mr. BELIN - About when was that, do you believe?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe I reached home quarter to three or something of
that, 15 minutes either way, and I saw his picture twice on television
before I went down to the police station for the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Now, is there anything else you told the officers at the
time of the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I told them I could not make a positive identification.
Mr. BELIN - When you told them that, did you ever later tell any officer
or investigating person anything different?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - When did that happen?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe some days later--I don't recall exactly--and I
believe the Secret Service man identified hisself as being Williams, I
believe, from Houston. I won't swear to that-whether his name was
Williams or not.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BRENNAN - And he could have been an FBI. As far as I remember, it
could have been FBI instead of Secret Service.
But I believe it was a Secret Service man from Houston.
And I--
Mr. BELIN - What did he say to you and what did you say to him?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, he asked me he said, "You said you couldn't make a
positive identification."
He said, "Did you do that for security reasons personally, or couldn't you?"
And I told him I could with all honesty, but I did it more or less for
security reasons--my family and myself.
Mr. BELIN - What do you mean by security reasons for your family and
yourself?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe at that time, and I still believe it was a
Communist activity, and I felt like there hadn't been more than one
eyewitness, and if it got to be a known fact that I was an eyewitness,
my family or I, either one, might not be safe.
Mr. BELIN - Well, if you wouldn't have identified him, might he not have
been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - Beg pardon?
Mr. BELIN - If you would not have identified that man positively, might
he not have been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - No. That had a great contributing factor--greater
contributing factor than my personal reasons was that I already knew
they had the man for murder, and I knew he would not be released.
Mr. BELIN - The murder of whom?
Mr. BRENNAN - Of Officer Tippit.
Mr. BELIN - Well, what happened in between to change your mind that you
later decided to come forth and tell them you could identify him?
Mr. BRENNAN - After Oswald was killed, I was relieved quite a bit that
as far as pressure on myself of somebody not wanting me to identify
anybody, there was no longer that immediate danger.
Mr. BELIN - What is the fact as to whether or not your having seen
Oswald on television would have affected your identification of him one
way or the other?
Mr. BRENNAN - That is something I do not know.
Mr. BELIN - Mr. Brennan, could you tell us now whether you can or cannot
positively identify the man you saw on the sixth floor window as the
same man that you saw in the police station?
Mr. BRENNAN - I could at that time I could, with all sincerity, identify
him as being the same man.
Thank you for proving Brennan had reasons for giving the ambiguous ID of
LHO at this lineup, something we already knew. What you fail to mention
Of course he did, because he was afraid for his family.
Post by claviger
is Brennan saw the man in the 6th floor window twice. Before the parade
Brennan noticed him gazing down the street. When the motorcade was
passing by Brennan heard loud shots and looked up at the 6th floor window
to see the same man with a rifle. So Brennan had two reasons to notice
Yes, after all the shots had been fired, he looked up.
And he saw a man. WOW, I guess that wraps up the case. So we know the
shooter wasn's a woman!
Another amateurish scam on your part. He saw the same guy twice in the
same window.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
the man in the window and immediately gave a description to the police,
who broadcast the APB 15 minutes after shots were fired. This APB closely
Again for the hundreth time, you have absolutely no proof that it was
Brennan's description that the police used. You ASSuME that because it
fits your story, but you can't prove it so stop stating it as a fact. Try
to honest for once in your life.
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Sure, it was Brennan who provided height & weight estimates, though he
could hardly, realistically, have done so.
This is old news. Brennan's description was not perfect. Witnesses
seldom get 100% right. He was probably asked the weight by the police
officer and guessed wrong. Brennan estimated height was 5'10". LHO was
5"9" tall. DPD Baker got it right with LHO standing right in front of
Or was he? [cue Mark Snow music] (obscure reference to The X-Files) If you
try hard enough you could find come crazy theories about a second Oswald
or a KGB replacement Oswald who was not 5'9" tall, but actually 5'10"
tall. And if you want to be a really hip apologist you could claim that
Oswald grew an inch taller from when the Marines FALSELY measured his
height to when he was in the TSBD. Or maybe he was standing on bricks or
something. Try harder.
Just never admit that Brennan never actually saw Oswald in the window.
Post by claviger
him, so a very good guess by Brennan down on the street.
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who volunteered it was a Winchester rifle, though he
admitted he knew nothing about guns.
Cite please.
WC. Interviews. Google.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who didn't have a clothing description, as per Sawyer's
APB. Though he provides one in his original affidavit.
So maybe it was Sawyer's mistake.
I don't think Sawyer just made it up. Someone said it.
All the made-up crap about the suspect's height & weight is irrelevant.
The conspirators simply wanted the phrase "slender white male" put on the
airwaves. The rest is a distraction. The conspirators didn't care if the
made-up crap made the witness and Sawyer look goofy, as long as they got
the three words which they wanted....
dcw
Are you saying Brennan and the DPD were part of a preplanned conspiracy?
Hardly. They had to shoehorn Brennan, after the fact, into the pre-fab
12:34 witness description.
Please explain the pre-fab description. If it was prefab why the
mistakes? Brennan didn't remember the scope on the rifle.
Post by donald willis
They wanted to put a face on the "facts" in the APB, even if Brennan obviously
couldn't fit them all.
To put a face they need to have a name. No name was mentioned in the APB.
Post by donald willis
But there was really no one else who had seen as much as Brennan did--that is, saw
someone *before* the shooting *and after*, if not the same person....
Brennan had a good look at the man in the 6th floor window before the
parade. When the motorcade passed by and he heard loud noises coming from
above he looked up and saw the same person fire a rifle at the Limousine.
Post by donald willis
Obviously, if Brennan had been in on it beforehand, he would have been
advised not to say that the shooter was standing up! Or was that O'Reilly
who said that? Or both?
Several witnesses made the same mistake.
Post by donald willis
If by "the DPD" you mean Fritz & Sawyer, though.... Fritz, I maintain, was
at the heart of it;
Fritz was on duty at the Trade Mart.
Post by donald willis
Sawyer was just given a suspect description to read, and probably was
not even told why. He comes off as the Dallas Clouseau because he was
so focused on his little speech that (as you know) he was oblivious of what
was actually going on around him!
dcw
Sawyer was an empty suit that day.
donald willis
2017-08-26 18:50:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
On Tuesday, August 22, 2017 at 6:58:10 AM UTC-5, d cut
Post by donald willis
the three words which they wanted....
dcw
Are you saying Brennan and the DPD were part of a preplanned conspiracy?
Hardly. They had to shoehorn Brennan, after the fact, into the pre-fab
12:34 witness description.
Please explain the pre-fab description. If it was prefab why the
mistakes?
To make it believable, just part of the general confusion in the immediate
aftermath of the assassination.

Brennan didn't remember the scope on the rifle.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
They wanted to put a face on the "facts" in the APB, even if Brennan obviously
couldn't fit them all.
To put a face they need to have a name. No name was mentioned in the APB.
Since the latter had to have been concocted before 12:30pm, there couldn't
have been a name. Any witness tied to the APB was not part of the
conspiracy. There was also no clothing description because they couldn't
be sure what Oswald was going to where that day upstairs, though he
apparently (as per Jarman) usually worked without an outer shirt, just a T
shirt....
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
But there was really no one else who had seen as much as Brennan did--that is, saw
someone *before* the shooting *and after*, if not the same person....
Brennan had a good look at the man in the 6th floor window before the
parade. When the motorcade passed by and he heard loud noises coming from
above he looked up and saw the same person fire a rifle at the Limousine.
Post by donald willis
Obviously, if Brennan had been in on it beforehand, he would have been
advised not to say that the shooter was standing up! Or was that O'Reilly
who said that? Or both?
Several witnesses made the same mistake.
Post by donald willis
If by "the DPD" you mean Fritz & Sawyer, though.... Fritz, I maintain, was
at the heart of it;
Fritz was on duty at the Trade Mart.
Some puzzling police-radio transmissions call that into question.

dcw
claviger
2017-08-27 22:19:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
On Tuesday, August 22, 2017 at 6:58:10 AM UTC-5, d cut
Post by donald willis
the three words which they wanted....
dcw
Are you saying Brennan and the DPD were part of a preplanned conspiracy?
Hardly. They had to shoehorn Brennan, after the fact, into the pre-fab
12:34 witness description.
Please explain the pre-fab description. If it was prefab why the
mistakes?
To make it believable, just part of the general confusion in the immediate
aftermath of the assassination.
Of course, THEY thought of everything. Don't make the description too
good or else people might suspect out THEY hired fake a witness. One
thing THEY couldn't control is a DPD motorcycle officer peeling off and
running inside the building. Had he been part of the conspiracy he would
have shot LHO dead. Instead this fast-acting slow-thinking DPD officer
let him go to leave the building and escape on a bus then a cab. As luck
would have it the DPD Officer gave a description almost identical to
Brennan. In fact better than Brennan. The height descriptions were 1"
off.
Post by donald willis
Brennan didn't remember the scope on the rifle.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
They wanted to put a face on the "facts" in the APB, even if Brennan obviously
couldn't fit them all.
To put a face they need to have a name. No name was mentioned in the APB.
Yes, a major slip-up in the nefarious plan to frame LHO.
Post by donald willis
Since the latter had to have been concocted before 12:30pm, there couldn't
have been a name. Any witness tied to the APB was not part of the
conspiracy. There was also no clothing description because they couldn't
be sure what Oswald was going to where that day upstairs, though he
apparently (as per Jarman) usually worked without an outer shirt, just a T
shirt....
Good point.
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
But there was really no one else who had seen as much as Brennan did--that is, saw
someone *before* the shooting *and after*, if not the same person....
Brennan had a good look at the man in the 6th floor window before the
parade. When the motorcade passed by and he heard loud noises coming from
above he looked up and saw the same person fire a rifle at the Limousine.
Post by donald willis
Obviously, if Brennan had been in on it beforehand, he would have been
advised not to say that the shooter was standing up! Or was that O'Reilly
who said that? Or both?
Several witnesses made the same mistake.
Post by donald willis
If by "the DPD" you mean Fritz & Sawyer, though.... Fritz, I maintain, was
at the heart of it;
Fritz was on duty at the Trade Mart.
Some puzzling police-radio transmissions call that into question.
dcw
You didn't do your homework. He had a witness at the Trade Mart who went
with him to the TSBD.
donald willis
2017-08-30 00:33:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
On Tuesday, August 22, 2017 at 6:58:10 AM UTC-5, d cut
Post by donald willis
the three words which they wanted....
dcw
Are you saying Brennan and the DPD were part of a preplanned conspiracy?
Hardly. They had to shoehorn Brennan, after the fact, into the pre-fab
12:34 witness description.
Please explain the pre-fab description. If it was prefab why the
mistakes?
To make it believable, just part of the general confusion in the immediate
aftermath of the assassination.
Of course, THEY thought of everything. Don't make the description too
good or else people might suspect out THEY hired fake a witness. One
thing THEY couldn't control is a DPD motorcycle officer peeling off and
running inside the building. Had he been part of the conspiracy he would
have shot LHO dead. Instead this fast-acting slow-thinking DPD officer
let him go to leave the building and escape on a bus then a cab. As luck
would have it the DPD Officer gave a description almost identical to
Brennan. In fact better than Brennan. The height descriptions were 1"
off.
Post by donald willis
Brennan didn't remember the scope on the rifle.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
They wanted to put a face on the "facts" in the APB, even if Brennan obviously
couldn't fit them all.
To put a face they need to have a name. No name was mentioned in the APB.
Yes, a major slip-up in the nefarious plan to frame LHO.
Post by donald willis
Since the latter had to have been concocted before 12:30pm, there couldn't
have been a name. Any witness tied to the APB was not part of the
conspiracy. There was also no clothing description because they couldn't
be sure what Oswald was going to where that day upstairs, though he
apparently (as per Jarman) usually worked without an outer shirt, just a T
shirt....
Good point.
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
But there was really no one else who had seen as much as Brennan did--that is, saw
someone *before* the shooting *and after*, if not the same person....
Brennan had a good look at the man in the 6th floor window before the
parade. When the motorcade passed by and he heard loud noises coming from
above he looked up and saw the same person fire a rifle at the Limousine.
Post by donald willis
Obviously, if Brennan had been in on it beforehand, he would have been
advised not to say that the shooter was standing up! Or was that O'Reilly
who said that? Or both?
Several witnesses made the same mistake.
Post by donald willis
If by "the DPD" you mean Fritz & Sawyer, though.... Fritz, I maintain, was
at the heart of it;
Fritz was on duty at the Trade Mart.
Some puzzling police-radio transmissions call that into question.
dcw
You didn't do your homework. He had a witness at the Trade Mart who went
with him to the TSBD.
He did not go directly from the TM to the TSBD. He went to Parkland
first. What witness are you talking about? Does he say they stopped at
the hospital first?
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-26 00:35:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
What is said off the record matters even more because they were too afraid
to put it on the record. National Security, you know. Why go off the
record unless it's something they don't want recorded? Your challenges are
whimpy. You should demand that I produce the tapes.
What tapes? Off the record conversations are a standard part of legal
proceedings in court. Judges and Lawyers go off the record for diverse
reasons. This a desperate attempt to salvage your lame argument devoid of
evidence.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Mr. BELIN - Now, taking you down to the Dallas Police Station, I believe
you said you talked to Captain Fritz. And then what happened?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I was just more or less introduced to him in Mr.
Sorrels' room, and they told me they were going to conduct a lineup and
wanted me to view it, which I did.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember how many people were in the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - No; I don't. A possibility seven more or less one.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Did you see anyone in the lineup you recognized?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - And what did you say?
Mr. BRENNAN - I told Mr. Sorrels and Captain Fritz at that time that
Oswald--or the man in the lineup that I identified looking more like a
closest resemblance to the man in the window than anyone in the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Were the other people in the lineup, do you remember--were
they all white, or were there some Negroes in there, or what?
Mr. BRENNAN - I do not remember.
Mr. BELIN - As I understand your testimony, then, you said that you told
him that this particular person looked the most like the man you saw on
the sixth floor of the building there.
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - In the meantime, had you seen any pictures of Lee Harvey
Oswald on television or in the newspapers?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, on television.
Mr. BELIN - About when was that, do you believe?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe I reached home quarter to three or something of
that, 15 minutes either way, and I saw his picture twice on television
before I went down to the police station for the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Now, is there anything else you told the officers at the
time of the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I told them I could not make a positive identification.
Mr. BELIN - When you told them that, did you ever later tell any officer
or investigating person anything different?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - When did that happen?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe some days later--I don't recall exactly--and I
believe the Secret Service man identified hisself as being Williams, I
believe, from Houston. I won't swear to that-whether his name was
Williams or not.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BRENNAN - And he could have been an FBI. As far as I remember, it
could have been FBI instead of Secret Service.
But I believe it was a Secret Service man from Houston.
And I--
Mr. BELIN - What did he say to you and what did you say to him?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, he asked me he said, "You said you couldn't make a
positive identification."
He said, "Did you do that for security reasons personally, or couldn't you?"
And I told him I could with all honesty, but I did it more or less for
security reasons--my family and myself.
Mr. BELIN - What do you mean by security reasons for your family and
yourself?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe at that time, and I still believe it was a
Communist activity, and I felt like there hadn't been more than one
eyewitness, and if it got to be a known fact that I was an eyewitness,
my family or I, either one, might not be safe.
Mr. BELIN - Well, if you wouldn't have identified him, might he not have
been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - Beg pardon?
Mr. BELIN - If you would not have identified that man positively, might
he not have been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - No. That had a great contributing factor--greater
contributing factor than my personal reasons was that I already knew
they had the man for murder, and I knew he would not be released.
Mr. BELIN - The murder of whom?
Mr. BRENNAN - Of Officer Tippit.
Mr. BELIN - Well, what happened in between to change your mind that you
later decided to come forth and tell them you could identify him?
Mr. BRENNAN - After Oswald was killed, I was relieved quite a bit that
as far as pressure on myself of somebody not wanting me to identify
anybody, there was no longer that immediate danger.
Mr. BELIN - What is the fact as to whether or not your having seen
Oswald on television would have affected your identification of him one
way or the other?
Mr. BRENNAN - That is something I do not know.
Mr. BELIN - Mr. Brennan, could you tell us now whether you can or cannot
positively identify the man you saw on the sixth floor window as the
same man that you saw in the police station?
Mr. BRENNAN - I could at that time I could, with all sincerity, identify
him as being the same man.
Thank you for proving Brennan had reasons for giving the ambiguous ID of
LHO at this lineup, something we already knew. What you fail to mention
Of course he did, because he was afraid for his family.
Post by claviger
is Brennan saw the man in the 6th floor window twice. Before the parade
Brennan noticed him gazing down the street. When the motorcade was
passing by Brennan heard loud shots and looked up at the 6th floor window
to see the same man with a rifle. So Brennan had two reasons to notice
Yes, after all the shots had been fired, he looked up.
And he saw a man. WOW, I guess that wraps up the case. So we know the
shooter wasn's a woman!
Another amateurish scam on your part. He saw the same guy twice in the
same window.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
the man in the window and immediately gave a description to the police,
who broadcast the APB 15 minutes after shots were fired. This APB closely
Again for the hundreth time, you have absolutely no proof that it was
Brennan's description that the police used. You ASSuME that because it
fits your story, but you can't prove it so stop stating it as a fact. Try
to honest for once in your life.
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Sure, it was Brennan who provided height & weight estimates, though he
could hardly, realistically, have done so.
This is old news. Brennan's description was not perfect. Witnesses
seldom get 100% right. He was probably asked the weight by the police
officer and guessed wrong. Brennan estimated height was 5'10". LHO was
5"9" tall. DPD Baker got it right with LHO standing right in front of
Or was he? [cue Mark Snow music] (obscure reference to The X-Files) If you
try hard enough you could find come crazy theories about a second Oswald
or a KGB replacement Oswald who was not 5'9" tall, but actually 5'10"
tall. And if you want to be a really hip apologist you could claim that
Oswald grew an inch taller from when the Marines FALSELY measured his
height to when he was in the TSBD. Or maybe he was standing on bricks or
something. Try harder.
Just never admit that Brennan never actually saw Oswald in the window.
Post by claviger
him, so a very good guess by Brennan down on the street.
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who volunteered it was a Winchester rifle, though he
admitted he knew nothing about guns.
Cite please.
WC. Interviews. Google.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who didn't have a clothing description, as per Sawyer's
APB. Though he provides one in his original affidavit.
So maybe it was Sawyer's mistake.
I don't think Sawyer just made it up. Someone said it.
All the made-up crap about the suspect's height & weight is irrelevant.
The conspirators simply wanted the phrase "slender white male" put on the
airwaves. The rest is a distraction. The conspirators didn't care if the
made-up crap made the witness and Sawyer look goofy, as long as they got
the three words which they wanted....
dcw
Are you saying Brennan and the DPD were part of a preplanned conspiracy?
Hardly. They had to shoehorn Brennan, after the fact, into the pre-fab
12:34 witness description. They wanted to put a face on the "facts" in
Almost any witness can make simple little mistakes. Good cops will not
rely on witnesses, but use them as clues. Bad cops will manipulate
witnesses to get them to say what they want to hear.
Post by donald willis
the APB, even if Brennan obviously couldn't fit them all. But there was
really no one else who had seen as much as Brennan did--that is, saw
That YOU know of. But you are ASSuMING what YOU think Brennan saw.
What about Euins? Maybe he really did see a black man, but it wasn't the
shooter.
Post by donald willis
someone *before* the shooting *and after*, if not the same person....
Obviously, if Brennan had been in on it beforehand, he would have been
advised not to say that the shooter was standing up! Or was that O'Reilly
who said that? Or both?
Bill O'Reilly is a profesional liar.
Post by donald willis
If by "the DPD" you mean Fritz & Sawyer, though.... Fritz, I maintain, was
at the heart of it; Sawyer was just given a suspect description to read,
and probably was not even told why. He comes off as the Dallas Clouseau
because he was so focused on his little speech that (as you know) he was
oblivious of what was actually going on around him!
Sometimes it's hard to tell if a cop is just crooked or incompetent or
stupid.
Post by donald willis
dcw
donald willis
2017-08-26 18:50:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
What is said off the record matters even more because they were too afraid
to put it on the record. National Security, you know. Why go off the
record unless it's something they don't want recorded? Your challenges are
whimpy. You should demand that I produce the tapes.
What tapes? Off the record conversations are a standard part of legal
proceedings in court. Judges and Lawyers go off the record for diverse
reasons. This a desperate attempt to salvage your lame argument devoid of
evidence.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Mr. BELIN - Now, taking you down to the Dallas Police Station, I believe
you said you talked to Captain Fritz. And then what happened?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I was just more or less introduced to him in Mr.
Sorrels' room, and they told me they were going to conduct a lineup and
wanted me to view it, which I did.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember how many people were in the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - No; I don't. A possibility seven more or less one.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Did you see anyone in the lineup you recognized?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - And what did you say?
Mr. BRENNAN - I told Mr. Sorrels and Captain Fritz at that time that
Oswald--or the man in the lineup that I identified looking more like a
closest resemblance to the man in the window than anyone in the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Were the other people in the lineup, do you remember--were
they all white, or were there some Negroes in there, or what?
Mr. BRENNAN - I do not remember.
Mr. BELIN - As I understand your testimony, then, you said that you told
him that this particular person looked the most like the man you saw on
the sixth floor of the building there.
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - In the meantime, had you seen any pictures of Lee Harvey
Oswald on television or in the newspapers?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, on television.
Mr. BELIN - About when was that, do you believe?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe I reached home quarter to three or something of
that, 15 minutes either way, and I saw his picture twice on television
before I went down to the police station for the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Now, is there anything else you told the officers at the
time of the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I told them I could not make a positive identification.
Mr. BELIN - When you told them that, did you ever later tell any officer
or investigating person anything different?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - When did that happen?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe some days later--I don't recall exactly--and I
believe the Secret Service man identified hisself as being Williams, I
believe, from Houston. I won't swear to that-whether his name was
Williams or not.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BRENNAN - And he could have been an FBI. As far as I remember, it
could have been FBI instead of Secret Service.
But I believe it was a Secret Service man from Houston.
And I--
Mr. BELIN - What did he say to you and what did you say to him?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, he asked me he said, "You said you couldn't make a
positive identification."
He said, "Did you do that for security reasons personally, or couldn't you?"
And I told him I could with all honesty, but I did it more or less for
security reasons--my family and myself.
Mr. BELIN - What do you mean by security reasons for your family and
yourself?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe at that time, and I still believe it was a
Communist activity, and I felt like there hadn't been more than one
eyewitness, and if it got to be a known fact that I was an eyewitness,
my family or I, either one, might not be safe.
Mr. BELIN - Well, if you wouldn't have identified him, might he not have
been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - Beg pardon?
Mr. BELIN - If you would not have identified that man positively, might
he not have been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - No. That had a great contributing factor--greater
contributing factor than my personal reasons was that I already knew
they had the man for murder, and I knew he would not be released.
Mr. BELIN - The murder of whom?
Mr. BRENNAN - Of Officer Tippit.
Mr. BELIN - Well, what happened in between to change your mind that you
later decided to come forth and tell them you could identify him?
Mr. BRENNAN - After Oswald was killed, I was relieved quite a bit that
as far as pressure on myself of somebody not wanting me to identify
anybody, there was no longer that immediate danger.
Mr. BELIN - What is the fact as to whether or not your having seen
Oswald on television would have affected your identification of him one
way or the other?
Mr. BRENNAN - That is something I do not know.
Mr. BELIN - Mr. Brennan, could you tell us now whether you can or cannot
positively identify the man you saw on the sixth floor window as the
same man that you saw in the police station?
Mr. BRENNAN - I could at that time I could, with all sincerity, identify
him as being the same man.
Thank you for proving Brennan had reasons for giving the ambiguous ID of
LHO at this lineup, something we already knew. What you fail to mention
Of course he did, because he was afraid for his family.
Post by claviger
is Brennan saw the man in the 6th floor window twice. Before the parade
Brennan noticed him gazing down the street. When the motorcade was
passing by Brennan heard loud shots and looked up at the 6th floor window
to see the same man with a rifle. So Brennan had two reasons to notice
Yes, after all the shots had been fired, he looked up.
And he saw a man. WOW, I guess that wraps up the case. So we know the
shooter wasn's a woman!
Another amateurish scam on your part. He saw the same guy twice in the
same window.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
the man in the window and immediately gave a description to the police,
who broadcast the APB 15 minutes after shots were fired. This APB closely
Again for the hundreth time, you have absolutely no proof that it was
Brennan's description that the police used. You ASSuME that because it
fits your story, but you can't prove it so stop stating it as a fact. Try
to honest for once in your life.
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Sure, it was Brennan who provided height & weight estimates, though he
could hardly, realistically, have done so.
This is old news. Brennan's description was not perfect. Witnesses
seldom get 100% right. He was probably asked the weight by the police
officer and guessed wrong. Brennan estimated height was 5'10". LHO was
5"9" tall. DPD Baker got it right with LHO standing right in front of
Or was he? [cue Mark Snow music] (obscure reference to The X-Files) If you
try hard enough you could find come crazy theories about a second Oswald
or a KGB replacement Oswald who was not 5'9" tall, but actually 5'10"
tall. And if you want to be a really hip apologist you could claim that
Oswald grew an inch taller from when the Marines FALSELY measured his
height to when he was in the TSBD. Or maybe he was standing on bricks or
something. Try harder.
Just never admit that Brennan never actually saw Oswald in the window.
Post by claviger
him, so a very good guess by Brennan down on the street.
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who volunteered it was a Winchester rifle, though he
admitted he knew nothing about guns.
Cite please.
WC. Interviews. Google.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who didn't have a clothing description, as per Sawyer's
APB. Though he provides one in his original affidavit.
So maybe it was Sawyer's mistake.
I don't think Sawyer just made it up. Someone said it.
All the made-up crap about the suspect's height & weight is irrelevant.
The conspirators simply wanted the phrase "slender white male" put on the
airwaves. The rest is a distraction. The conspirators didn't care if the
made-up crap made the witness and Sawyer look goofy, as long as they got
the three words which they wanted....
dcw
Are you saying Brennan and the DPD were part of a preplanned conspiracy?
Hardly. They had to shoehorn Brennan, after the fact, into the pre-fab
12:34 witness description. They wanted to put a face on the "facts" in
Almost any witness can make simple little mistakes. Good cops will not
rely on witnesses, but use them as clues. Bad cops will manipulate
witnesses to get them to say what they want to hear.
Post by donald willis
the APB, even if Brennan obviously couldn't fit them all. But there was
really no one else who had seen as much as Brennan did--that is, saw
That YOU know of. But you are ASSuMING what YOU think Brennan saw.
What about Euins? Maybe he really did see a black man, but it wasn't the
shooter.
On this we can agree!

dcw
claviger
2017-08-22 12:01:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Sure, it was Brennan who provided height & weight estimates, though he
could hardly, realistically, have done so.
This is old news. Brennan's description was not perfect. Witnesses
seldom get 100% right. He was probably asked the weight by the police
officer and guessed wrong. Brennan estimated height was 5'10". LHO was
5"9" tall. DPD Baker got it right with LHO standing right in front of
Or was he? [cue Mark Snow music] (obscure reference to The X-Files) If you
try hard enough you could find come crazy theories about a second Oswald
or a KGB replacement Oswald who was not 5'9" tall, but actually 5'10"
tall. And if you want to be a really hip apologist you could claim that
Oswald grew an inch taller from when the Marines FALSELY measured his
height to when he was in the TSBD. Or maybe he was standing on bricks or
something. Try harder.
As a 17 year old teenager when he joined the Marines it is possible LHO
did grow another inch taller after his boot camp photo was taken.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Just never admit that Brennan never actually saw Oswald in the window.
He saw LHO in the 6th floor window in two different circumstances.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
him, so a very good guess by Brennan down on the street.
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who volunteered it was a Winchester rifle, though he
admitted he knew nothing about guns.
Cite please.
WC. Interviews. Google.
Please provide a cite where Brennan called it a Winchester.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who didn't have a clothing description, as per Sawyer's
APB. Though he provides one in his original affidavit.
So maybe it was Sawyer's mistake.
I don't think Sawyer just made it up. Someone said it.
Sawyer was an oddball who was so confused at the scene of the crime even
the Dispatcher had to correct his mistakes.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And Brennan did not know that the shooter was in the depository, as per
Sawyer's 12:46 transmission.
Obviously Sawyer's mistake
Cops make mistakes all the time. Forgive them and move on.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Though photos and his affidavit seem to contradict Sawyer.
Yes indeed.
Post by donald willis
Sawyer & Brennan--a perfect match!
Opposites attract.
Post by donald willis
LNers in denial!
CTs groping for anything to discredit Brennan.
He discredited himself.
How so? Several witnesses saw a rifle in the 6th floor window. The rifle
belonged to LHO. The empty shells matched that rifle. How did the rifle
and shells get to the 6th floor? None of the work crew saw a rifle on the
6th floor that morning and LHO didn't mention it was for sale. LHO was
seen in the lunchroom then left the building without notifying anyone.
For some reason this delinquent employee went home and rearmed himself
with a pistol then shot a police officer several times as he lay wounded
on the street. Based on a complete search of the building LHO was the
only employee to bring a rifle to work that day. Circumstantial evidence
points to LHO as the sniper in the 6th floor window. Brennan gave a
description almost identical to the person DPD Baker confronted in the
lunchroom. All of this evidence supports Brennan's ID of Oswald.
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-22 23:17:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Sure, it was Brennan who provided height & weight estimates, though he
could hardly, realistically, have done so.
This is old news. Brennan's description was not perfect. Witnesses
seldom get 100% right. He was probably asked the weight by the police
officer and guessed wrong. Brennan estimated height was 5'10". LHO was
5"9" tall. DPD Baker got it right with LHO standing right in front of
Or was he? [cue Mark Snow music] (obscure reference to The X-Files) If you
try hard enough you could find come crazy theories about a second Oswald
or a KGB replacement Oswald who was not 5'9" tall, but actually 5'10"
tall. And if you want to be a really hip apologist you could claim that
Oswald grew an inch taller from when the Marines FALSELY measured his
height to when he was in the TSBD. Or maybe he was standing on bricks or
something. Try harder.
As a 17 year old teenager when he joined the Marines it is possible LHO
did grow another inch taller after his boot camp photo was taken.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Just never admit that Brennan never actually saw Oswald in the window.
He saw LHO in the 6th floor window in two different circumstances.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
him, so a very good guess by Brennan down on the street.
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who volunteered it was a Winchester rifle, though he
admitted he knew nothing about guns.
Cite please.
WC. Interviews. Google.
Please provide a cite where Brennan called it a Winchester.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who didn't have a clothing description, as per Sawyer's
APB. Though he provides one in his original affidavit.
So maybe it was Sawyer's mistake.
I don't think Sawyer just made it up. Someone said it.
Sawyer was an oddball who was so confused at the scene of the crime even
the Dispatcher had to correct his mistakes.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And Brennan did not know that the shooter was in the depository, as per
Sawyer's 12:46 transmission.
Obviously Sawyer's mistake
Cops make mistakes all the time. Forgive them and move on.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Though photos and his affidavit seem to contradict Sawyer.
Yes indeed.
Post by donald willis
Sawyer & Brennan--a perfect match!
Opposites attract.
Post by donald willis
LNers in denial!
CTs groping for anything to discredit Brennan.
He discredited himself.
How so? Several witnesses saw a rifle in the 6th floor window. The rifle
belonged to LHO. The empty shells matched that rifle. How did the rifle
So now you changed it from "a" rifle to "the" rifle.
How did you do that? By magic.
There could have been another rifle that people saw.
You have absolutely no proof that it was Oswald's rifle that anyone saw
in the window.
Post by claviger
and shells get to the 6th floor? None of the work crew saw a rifle on the
As I said before, the acoustical evidence (SCIENCE) proved that 3 shots
were fired from that window. It does not prove which rifle fire them,
but in the future a new technique will.
Post by claviger
6th floor that morning and LHO didn't mention it was for sale. LHO was
I am not the one with a theory that Oswald was selling his rifle. He
needed it to assassinate people.
Post by claviger
seen in the lunchroom then left the building without notifying anyone.
So did Givens. The DPD put out an APB for Givens, so arrest Givens.
Post by claviger
For some reason this delinquent employee went home and rearmed himself
with a pistol then shot a police officer several times as he lay wounded
on the street. Based on a complete search of the building LHO was the
Well, your rhetoric is a little over the top. Most of the shots were
fired before Tippit fell.
Post by claviger
only employee to bring a rifle to work that day. Circumstantial evidence
What about the other days when other employees brought their rifles to
work? Aren't they assassins also?
Post by claviger
points to LHO as the sniper in the 6th floor window. Brennan gave a
Some circumstantial evidence does. But you misrepresent it to frame
Oswald.
Post by claviger
description almost identical to the person DPD Baker confronted in the
lunchroom. All of this evidence supports Brennan's ID of Oswald.
No.
donald willis
2017-08-23 13:55:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Sure, it was Brennan who provided height & weight estimates, though he
could hardly, realistically, have done so.
This is old news. Brennan's description was not perfect. Witnesses
seldom get 100% right. He was probably asked the weight by the police
officer and guessed wrong. Brennan estimated height was 5'10". LHO was
5"9" tall. DPD Baker got it right with LHO standing right in front of
Or was he? [cue Mark Snow music] (obscure reference to The X-Files) If you
try hard enough you could find come crazy theories about a second Oswald
or a KGB replacement Oswald who was not 5'9" tall, but actually 5'10"
tall. And if you want to be a really hip apologist you could claim that
Oswald grew an inch taller from when the Marines FALSELY measured his
height to when he was in the TSBD. Or maybe he was standing on bricks or
something. Try harder.
As a 17 year old teenager when he joined the Marines it is possible LHO
did grow another inch taller after his boot camp photo was taken.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Just never admit that Brennan never actually saw Oswald in the window.
He saw LHO in the 6th floor window in two different circumstances.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
him, so a very good guess by Brennan down on the street.
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who volunteered it was a Winchester rifle, though he
admitted he knew nothing about guns.
Cite please.
WC. Interviews. Google.
Please provide a cite where Brennan called it a Winchester.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who didn't have a clothing description, as per Sawyer's
APB. Though he provides one in his original affidavit.
So maybe it was Sawyer's mistake.
I don't think Sawyer just made it up. Someone said it.
Sawyer was an oddball who was so confused at the scene of the crime even
the Dispatcher had to correct his mistakes.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And Brennan did not know that the shooter was in the depository, as per
Sawyer's 12:46 transmission.
Obviously Sawyer's mistake
Cops make mistakes all the time. Forgive them and move on.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Though photos and his affidavit seem to contradict Sawyer.
Yes indeed.
Post by donald willis
Sawyer & Brennan--a perfect match!
Opposites attract.
Post by donald willis
LNers in denial!
CTs groping for anything to discredit Brennan.
He discredited himself.
How so? Several witnesses saw a rifle in the 6th floor window.
Debatable. Let's take one of those witnesses. Bob Edwards originally
said that he saw the suspect at a wide open window on the 5th floor. The
FBI weaned him off "5th floor". But the "wide open" stood unchallenged.
In fact, there are some wide open windows on the 5th floor, the floor
which Edwards originally said the suspect was on. The guy with him,
Ronald Fischer, testified that he could not have seen so much of the
suspect unless the window was open all the way....


The rifle
Post by claviger
belonged to LHO. The empty shells matched that rifle. How did the rifle
and shells get to the 6th floor?
Captain Fritz picked up the shells before they could be photographed. We
can't be sure WHERE they were found....

None of the work crew saw a rifle on the
Post by claviger
6th floor that morning and LHO didn't mention it was for sale. LHO was
seen in the lunchroom then left the building without notifying anyone.
For some reason this delinquent employee went home and rearmed himself
with a pistol then shot a police officer several times as he lay wounded
on the street. Based on a complete search of the building LHO was the
only employee to bring a rifle to work that day. Circumstantial evidence
points to LHO as the sniper in the 6th floor window. Brennan gave a
description almost identical to the person DPD Baker confronted in the
lunchroom.
Including a weight estimate. Try estimating the respective weights of
Williams & Norman in their windows. Right!--you wouldn't even try based
on how little you see of them. And if Brennan saw more of *his* man, then
the guy wasn't trying to hide what he was doing.

dcw
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-23 22:38:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Sure, it was Brennan who provided height & weight estimates, though he
could hardly, realistically, have done so.
This is old news. Brennan's description was not perfect. Witnesses
seldom get 100% right. He was probably asked the weight by the police
officer and guessed wrong. Brennan estimated height was 5'10". LHO was
5"9" tall. DPD Baker got it right with LHO standing right in front of
Or was he? [cue Mark Snow music] (obscure reference to The X-Files) If you
try hard enough you could find come crazy theories about a second Oswald
or a KGB replacement Oswald who was not 5'9" tall, but actually 5'10"
tall. And if you want to be a really hip apologist you could claim that
Oswald grew an inch taller from when the Marines FALSELY measured his
height to when he was in the TSBD. Or maybe he was standing on bricks or
something. Try harder.
As a 17 year old teenager when he joined the Marines it is possible LHO
did grow another inch taller after his boot camp photo was taken.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Just never admit that Brennan never actually saw Oswald in the window.
He saw LHO in the 6th floor window in two different circumstances.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
him, so a very good guess by Brennan down on the street.
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who volunteered it was a Winchester rifle, though he
admitted he knew nothing about guns.
Cite please.
WC. Interviews. Google.
Please provide a cite where Brennan called it a Winchester.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who didn't have a clothing description, as per Sawyer's
APB. Though he provides one in his original affidavit.
So maybe it was Sawyer's mistake.
I don't think Sawyer just made it up. Someone said it.
Sawyer was an oddball who was so confused at the scene of the crime even
the Dispatcher had to correct his mistakes.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And Brennan did not know that the shooter was in the depository, as per
Sawyer's 12:46 transmission.
Obviously Sawyer's mistake
Cops make mistakes all the time. Forgive them and move on.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Though photos and his affidavit seem to contradict Sawyer.
Yes indeed.
Post by donald willis
Sawyer & Brennan--a perfect match!
Opposites attract.
Post by donald willis
LNers in denial!
CTs groping for anything to discredit Brennan.
He discredited himself.
How so? Several witnesses saw a rifle in the 6th floor window.
Debatable. Let's take one of those witnesses. Bob Edwards originally
said that he saw the suspect at a wide open window on the 5th floor. The
Yeah, if the shooter was a black man. Some kook here has that theory.
Not sure which one.
Post by donald willis
FBI weaned him off "5th floor". But the "wide open" stood unchallenged.
In fact, there are some wide open windows on the 5th floor, the floor
which Edwards originally said the suspect was on. The guy with him,
Ronald Fischer, testified that he could not have seen so much of the
suspect unless the window was open all the way....
The rifle
Post by claviger
belonged to LHO. The empty shells matched that rifle. How did the rifle
and shells get to the 6th floor?
Captain Fritz picked up the shells before they could be photographed. We
can't be sure WHERE they were found....
But at least we can be pretty sure it was not like the official photograph.
Post by donald willis
None of the work crew saw a rifle on the
Post by claviger
6th floor that morning and LHO didn't mention it was for sale. LHO was
seen in the lunchroom then left the building without notifying anyone.
For some reason this delinquent employee went home and rearmed himself
with a pistol then shot a police officer several times as he lay wounded
on the street. Based on a complete search of the building LHO was the
only employee to bring a rifle to work that day. Circumstantial evidence
points to LHO as the sniper in the 6th floor window. Brennan gave a
description almost identical to the person DPD Baker confronted in the
lunchroom.
Including a weight estimate. Try estimating the respective weights of
Williams & Norman in their windows. Right!--you wouldn't even try based
on how little you see of them. And if Brennan saw more of *his* man, then
the guy wasn't trying to hide what he was doing.
Not fair. Asking your opponent to duplicate what witnesses did.
How do you know he can't see without his glasses!
Post by donald willis
dcw
donald willis
2017-08-24 19:24:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Sure, it was Brennan who provided height & weight estimates, though he
could hardly, realistically, have done so.
This is old news. Brennan's description was not perfect. Witnesses
seldom get 100% right. He was probably asked the weight by the police
officer and guessed wrong. Brennan estimated height was 5'10". LHO was
5"9" tall. DPD Baker got it right with LHO standing right in front of
Or was he? [cue Mark Snow music] (obscure reference to The X-Files) If you
try hard enough you could find come crazy theories about a second Oswald
or a KGB replacement Oswald who was not 5'9" tall, but actually 5'10"
tall. And if you want to be a really hip apologist you could claim that
Oswald grew an inch taller from when the Marines FALSELY measured his
height to when he was in the TSBD. Or maybe he was standing on bricks or
something. Try harder.
As a 17 year old teenager when he joined the Marines it is possible LHO
did grow another inch taller after his boot camp photo was taken.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Just never admit that Brennan never actually saw Oswald in the window.
He saw LHO in the 6th floor window in two different circumstances.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
him, so a very good guess by Brennan down on the street.
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who volunteered it was a Winchester rifle, though he
admitted he knew nothing about guns.
Cite please.
WC. Interviews. Google.
Please provide a cite where Brennan called it a Winchester.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who didn't have a clothing description, as per Sawyer's
APB. Though he provides one in his original affidavit.
So maybe it was Sawyer's mistake.
I don't think Sawyer just made it up. Someone said it.
Sawyer was an oddball who was so confused at the scene of the crime even
the Dispatcher had to correct his mistakes.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And Brennan did not know that the shooter was in the depository, as per
Sawyer's 12:46 transmission.
Obviously Sawyer's mistake
Cops make mistakes all the time. Forgive them and move on.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Though photos and his affidavit seem to contradict Sawyer.
Yes indeed.
Post by donald willis
Sawyer & Brennan--a perfect match!
Opposites attract.
Post by donald willis
LNers in denial!
CTs groping for anything to discredit Brennan.
He discredited himself.
How so? Several witnesses saw a rifle in the 6th floor window.
Debatable. Let's take one of those witnesses. Bob Edwards originally
said that he saw the suspect at a wide open window on the 5th floor. The
Yeah, if the shooter was a black man. Some kook here has that theory.
Not sure which one.
Post by donald willis
FBI weaned him off "5th floor". But the "wide open" stood unchallenged.
In fact, there are some wide open windows on the 5th floor, the floor
which Edwards originally said the suspect was on. The guy with him,
Ronald Fischer, testified that he could not have seen so much of the
suspect unless the window was open all the way....
The rifle
Post by claviger
belonged to LHO. The empty shells matched that rifle. How did the rifle
and shells get to the 6th floor?
Captain Fritz picked up the shells before they could be photographed. We
can't be sure WHERE they were found....
But at least we can be pretty sure it was not like the official photograph.
I believe that Alyea and Sgt. Hill said all three hulls were right against
the wall. That's a difference right there....

dcw
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-26 00:36:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Sure, it was Brennan who provided height & weight estimates, though he
could hardly, realistically, have done so.
This is old news. Brennan's description was not perfect. Witnesses
seldom get 100% right. He was probably asked the weight by the police
officer and guessed wrong. Brennan estimated height was 5'10". LHO was
5"9" tall. DPD Baker got it right with LHO standing right in front of
Or was he? [cue Mark Snow music] (obscure reference to The X-Files) If you
try hard enough you could find come crazy theories about a second Oswald
or a KGB replacement Oswald who was not 5'9" tall, but actually 5'10"
tall. And if you want to be a really hip apologist you could claim that
Oswald grew an inch taller from when the Marines FALSELY measured his
height to when he was in the TSBD. Or maybe he was standing on bricks or
something. Try harder.
As a 17 year old teenager when he joined the Marines it is possible LHO
did grow another inch taller after his boot camp photo was taken.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Just never admit that Brennan never actually saw Oswald in the window.
He saw LHO in the 6th floor window in two different circumstances.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
him, so a very good guess by Brennan down on the street.
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who volunteered it was a Winchester rifle, though he
admitted he knew nothing about guns.
Cite please.
WC. Interviews. Google.
Please provide a cite where Brennan called it a Winchester.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who didn't have a clothing description, as per Sawyer's
APB. Though he provides one in his original affidavit.
So maybe it was Sawyer's mistake.
I don't think Sawyer just made it up. Someone said it.
Sawyer was an oddball who was so confused at the scene of the crime even
the Dispatcher had to correct his mistakes.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And Brennan did not know that the shooter was in the depository, as per
Sawyer's 12:46 transmission.
Obviously Sawyer's mistake
Cops make mistakes all the time. Forgive them and move on.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Though photos and his affidavit seem to contradict Sawyer.
Yes indeed.
Post by donald willis
Sawyer & Brennan--a perfect match!
Opposites attract.
Post by donald willis
LNers in denial!
CTs groping for anything to discredit Brennan.
He discredited himself.
How so? Several witnesses saw a rifle in the 6th floor window.
Debatable. Let's take one of those witnesses. Bob Edwards originally
said that he saw the suspect at a wide open window on the 5th floor. The
Yeah, if the shooter was a black man. Some kook here has that theory.
Not sure which one.
Post by donald willis
FBI weaned him off "5th floor". But the "wide open" stood unchallenged.
In fact, there are some wide open windows on the 5th floor, the floor
which Edwards originally said the suspect was on. The guy with him,
Ronald Fischer, testified that he could not have seen so much of the
suspect unless the window was open all the way....
The rifle
Post by claviger
belonged to LHO. The empty shells matched that rifle. How did the rifle
and shells get to the 6th floor?
Captain Fritz picked up the shells before they could be photographed. We
can't be sure WHERE they were found....
But at least we can be pretty sure it was not like the official photograph.
I believe that Alyea and Sgt. Hill said all three hulls were right against
the wall. That's a difference right there....
Not exactly. Certainly not like in the phony evidence photo. There should
be a natural dispersal pattern to the ejection. I do not reject the shells
being NEAR the wall, because they might ricochet off the wall of boxes and
bounce into the gap between the floor and the bricks.
Post by donald willis
dcw
donald willis
2017-08-28 14:26:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by donald willis
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Sure, it was Brennan who provided height & weight estimates, though he
could hardly, realistically, have done so.
This is old news. Brennan's description was not perfect. Witnesses
seldom get 100% right. He was probably asked the weight by the police
officer and guessed wrong. Brennan estimated height was 5'10". LHO was
5"9" tall. DPD Baker got it right with LHO standing right in front of
Or was he? [cue Mark Snow music] (obscure reference to The X-Files) If you
try hard enough you could find come crazy theories about a second Oswald
or a KGB replacement Oswald who was not 5'9" tall, but actually 5'10"
tall. And if you want to be a really hip apologist you could claim that
Oswald grew an inch taller from when the Marines FALSELY measured his
height to when he was in the TSBD. Or maybe he was standing on bricks or
something. Try harder.
As a 17 year old teenager when he joined the Marines it is possible LHO
did grow another inch taller after his boot camp photo was taken.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Just never admit that Brennan never actually saw Oswald in the window.
He saw LHO in the 6th floor window in two different circumstances.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
him, so a very good guess by Brennan down on the street.
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who volunteered it was a Winchester rifle, though he
admitted he knew nothing about guns.
Cite please.
WC. Interviews. Google.
Please provide a cite where Brennan called it a Winchester.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who didn't have a clothing description, as per Sawyer's
APB. Though he provides one in his original affidavit.
So maybe it was Sawyer's mistake.
I don't think Sawyer just made it up. Someone said it.
Sawyer was an oddball who was so confused at the scene of the crime even
the Dispatcher had to correct his mistakes.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And Brennan did not know that the shooter was in the depository, as per
Sawyer's 12:46 transmission.
Obviously Sawyer's mistake
Cops make mistakes all the time. Forgive them and move on.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Though photos and his affidavit seem to contradict Sawyer.
Yes indeed.
Post by donald willis
Sawyer & Brennan--a perfect match!
Opposites attract.
Post by donald willis
LNers in denial!
CTs groping for anything to discredit Brennan.
He discredited himself.
How so? Several witnesses saw a rifle in the 6th floor window.
Debatable. Let's take one of those witnesses. Bob Edwards originally
said that he saw the suspect at a wide open window on the 5th floor. The
Yeah, if the shooter was a black man. Some kook here has that theory.
Not sure which one.
Post by donald willis
FBI weaned him off "5th floor". But the "wide open" stood unchallenged.
In fact, there are some wide open windows on the 5th floor, the floor
which Edwards originally said the suspect was on. The guy with him,
Ronald Fischer, testified that he could not have seen so much of the
suspect unless the window was open all the way....
The rifle
Post by claviger
belonged to LHO. The empty shells matched that rifle. How did the rifle
and shells get to the 6th floor?
Captain Fritz picked up the shells before they could be photographed. We
can't be sure WHERE they were found....
But at least we can be pretty sure it was not like the official photograph.
I believe that Alyea and Sgt. Hill said all three hulls were right against
the wall. That's a difference right there....
Not exactly. Certainly not like in the phony evidence photo.
Which "phony evidence photo"?

There should
Post by Anthony Marsh
be a natural dispersal pattern to the ejection. I do not reject the shells
being NEAR the wall, because they might ricochet off the wall of boxes and
bounce into the gap between the floor and the bricks.
Post by donald willis
dcw
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-30 09:35:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by donald willis
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Sure, it was Brennan who provided height & weight estimates, though he
could hardly, realistically, have done so.
This is old news. Brennan's description was not perfect. Witnesses
seldom get 100% right. He was probably asked the weight by the police
officer and guessed wrong. Brennan estimated height was 5'10". LHO was
5"9" tall. DPD Baker got it right with LHO standing right in front of
Or was he? [cue Mark Snow music] (obscure reference to The X-Files) If you
try hard enough you could find come crazy theories about a second Oswald
or a KGB replacement Oswald who was not 5'9" tall, but actually 5'10"
tall. And if you want to be a really hip apologist you could claim that
Oswald grew an inch taller from when the Marines FALSELY measured his
height to when he was in the TSBD. Or maybe he was standing on bricks or
something. Try harder.
As a 17 year old teenager when he joined the Marines it is possible LHO
did grow another inch taller after his boot camp photo was taken.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Just never admit that Brennan never actually saw Oswald in the window.
He saw LHO in the 6th floor window in two different circumstances.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
him, so a very good guess by Brennan down on the street.
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who volunteered it was a Winchester rifle, though he
admitted he knew nothing about guns.
Cite please.
WC. Interviews. Google.
Please provide a cite where Brennan called it a Winchester.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who didn't have a clothing description, as per Sawyer's
APB. Though he provides one in his original affidavit.
So maybe it was Sawyer's mistake.
I don't think Sawyer just made it up. Someone said it.
Sawyer was an oddball who was so confused at the scene of the crime even
the Dispatcher had to correct his mistakes.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And Brennan did not know that the shooter was in the depository, as per
Sawyer's 12:46 transmission.
Obviously Sawyer's mistake
Cops make mistakes all the time. Forgive them and move on.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Though photos and his affidavit seem to contradict Sawyer.
Yes indeed.
Post by donald willis
Sawyer & Brennan--a perfect match!
Opposites attract.
Post by donald willis
LNers in denial!
CTs groping for anything to discredit Brennan.
He discredited himself.
How so? Several witnesses saw a rifle in the 6th floor window.
Debatable. Let's take one of those witnesses. Bob Edwards originally
said that he saw the suspect at a wide open window on the 5th floor. The
Yeah, if the shooter was a black man. Some kook here has that theory.
Not sure which one.
Post by donald willis
FBI weaned him off "5th floor". But the "wide open" stood unchallenged.
In fact, there are some wide open windows on the 5th floor, the floor
which Edwards originally said the suspect was on. The guy with him,
Ronald Fischer, testified that he could not have seen so much of the
suspect unless the window was open all the way....
The rifle
Post by claviger
belonged to LHO. The empty shells matched that rifle. How did the rifle
and shells get to the 6th floor?
Captain Fritz picked up the shells before they could be photographed. We
can't be sure WHERE they were found....
But at least we can be pretty sure it was not like the official photograph.
I believe that Alyea and Sgt. Hill said all three hulls were right against
the wall. That's a difference right there....
Not exactly. Certainly not like in the phony evidence photo.
Which "phony evidence photo"?
CE 510
Post by donald willis
There should
Post by Anthony Marsh
be a natural dispersal pattern to the ejection. I do not reject the shells
being NEAR the wall, because they might ricochet off the wall of boxes and
bounce into the gap between the floor and the bricks.
Post by donald willis
dcw
claviger
2017-08-24 15:24:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Sure, it was Brennan who provided height & weight estimates, though he
could hardly, realistically, have done so.
This is old news. Brennan's description was not perfect. Witnesses
seldom get 100% right. He was probably asked the weight by the police
officer and guessed wrong. Brennan estimated height was 5'10". LHO was
5"9" tall. DPD Baker got it right with LHO standing right in front of
Or was he? [cue Mark Snow music] (obscure reference to The X-Files) If you
try hard enough you could find come crazy theories about a second Oswald
or a KGB replacement Oswald who was not 5'9" tall, but actually 5'10"
tall. And if you want to be a really hip apologist you could claim that
Oswald grew an inch taller from when the Marines FALSELY measured his
height to when he was in the TSBD. Or maybe he was standing on bricks or
something. Try harder.
As a 17 year old teenager when he joined the Marines it is possible LHO
did grow another inch taller after his boot camp photo was taken.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Just never admit that Brennan never actually saw Oswald in the window.
He saw LHO in the 6th floor window in two different circumstances.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
him, so a very good guess by Brennan down on the street.
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who volunteered it was a Winchester rifle, though he
admitted he knew nothing about guns.
Cite please.
WC. Interviews. Google.
Please provide a cite where Brennan called it a Winchester.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who didn't have a clothing description, as per Sawyer's
APB. Though he provides one in his original affidavit.
So maybe it was Sawyer's mistake.
I don't think Sawyer just made it up. Someone said it.
Sawyer was an oddball who was so confused at the scene of the crime even
the Dispatcher had to correct his mistakes.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And Brennan did not know that the shooter was in the depository, as per
Sawyer's 12:46 transmission.
Obviously Sawyer's mistake
Cops make mistakes all the time. Forgive them and move on.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Though photos and his affidavit seem to contradict Sawyer.
Yes indeed.
Post by donald willis
Sawyer & Brennan--a perfect match!
Opposites attract.
Post by donald willis
LNers in denial!
CTs groping for anything to discredit Brennan.
He discredited himself.
How so? Several witnesses saw a rifle in the 6th floor window.
Debatable.
What is debatable? Six witness gave statements they saw a rifle in the
6th floor window. They were interviewed by police and signed official
written statements as witnesses.
Post by donald willis
Let's take one of those witnesses. Bob Edwards originally said that he saw
the suspect at a wide open window on the 5th floor. The FBI weaned him
off "5th floor". But the "wide open" stood unchallenged.
The reason being there were 3 witnesses looking out wide open windows on
the 5th floor who heard the gunshots coming from the floor above them.
Do the math, that would be the 6th floor.
Post by donald willis
In fact, there are some wide open windows on the 5th floor, the floor
which Edwards originally said the suspect was on. The guy with him,
Ronald Fischer, testified that he could not have seen so much of the
suspect unless the window was open all the way....
So your theory is the three guys on the 5th floor were the real hit team?
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
The rifle belonged to LHO. The empty shells matched that rifle. How did
the rifle and shells get to the 6th floor?
Captain Fritz picked up the shells before they could be photographed. We
can't be sure WHERE they were found....
Fritz picked up one shell and put it back where he found it. In 1963 it
would be proper procedure since the Police had no idea what type of rifle
was used for this ambush. Examining an empty shell would indicate the
caliber of rifle used by the sniper. Later in the search a rifle was
discovered between boxes and the shells found under the window matched the
ammo in the clip.
Post by donald willis
None of the work crew saw a rifle on the
None of the crew who worked on the 6th floor project to replace the oil
stained wood reported seeing a rifle that morning or that LHO had told
them his rifle was for sale, the reason why he brought it to work that
day. If LHO wanted to sell it he would have notified these guys he would
bring it to work so they could take a look at it. LHO carried a paper bag
to work that morning with something heavy inside but mentioned nothing
about a rifle to this floor crew or anyone else, so the gun-for-sale
theory is bogus.
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
6th floor that morning and LHO didn't mention it was for sale. LHO was
seen in the lunchroom then left the building without notifying anyone.
For some reason this delinquent employee went home and rearmed himself
with a pistol then shot a police officer several times as he lay wounded
on the street. Based on a complete search of the building LHO was the
only employee to bring a rifle to work that day. Circumstantial evidence
points to LHO as the sniper in the 6th floor window. Brennan gave a
description almost identical to the person DPD Baker confronted in the
lunchroom.
Including a weight estimate. Try estimating the respective weights of
Williams & Norman in their windows. Right!--you wouldn't even try based
on how little you see of them.
Attempting to guess actual weight from the street is a dubious proposition
and Brennan got it wrong. What the DPD officer should have asked: was the
shooter in the 6th floor window skinny, slender, medium, stocky, large?
Those commonly used descriptions would make more sense. Brennan did miss
the correct weight by several pounds, proving he was just a normal guy in
the crowd on the street, not a conspiracy plant.
Post by donald willis
And if Brennan saw more of *his* man, then the guy wasn't trying to hide
what he was doing.
dcw
Exactly, proving LHO was on a suicide mission not expecting to escape the
TSBD. Ultimately he wanted credit for this evil deed. He played games
with the DPD after his arrest as the poor little patsy. Only the most
gullible of the population bought into that scam.
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-24 23:08:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Sure, it was Brennan who provided height & weight estimates, though he
could hardly, realistically, have done so.
This is old news. Brennan's description was not perfect. Witnesses
seldom get 100% right. He was probably asked the weight by the police
officer and guessed wrong. Brennan estimated height was 5'10". LHO was
5"9" tall. DPD Baker got it right with LHO standing right in front of
Or was he? [cue Mark Snow music] (obscure reference to The X-Files) If you
try hard enough you could find come crazy theories about a second Oswald
or a KGB replacement Oswald who was not 5'9" tall, but actually 5'10"
tall. And if you want to be a really hip apologist you could claim that
Oswald grew an inch taller from when the Marines FALSELY measured his
height to when he was in the TSBD. Or maybe he was standing on bricks or
something. Try harder.
As a 17 year old teenager when he joined the Marines it is possible LHO
did grow another inch taller after his boot camp photo was taken.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Just never admit that Brennan never actually saw Oswald in the window.
He saw LHO in the 6th floor window in two different circumstances.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
him, so a very good guess by Brennan down on the street.
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who volunteered it was a Winchester rifle, though he
admitted he knew nothing about guns.
Cite please.
WC. Interviews. Google.
Please provide a cite where Brennan called it a Winchester.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who didn't have a clothing description, as per Sawyer's
APB. Though he provides one in his original affidavit.
So maybe it was Sawyer's mistake.
I don't think Sawyer just made it up. Someone said it.
Sawyer was an oddball who was so confused at the scene of the crime even
the Dispatcher had to correct his mistakes.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And Brennan did not know that the shooter was in the depository, as per
Sawyer's 12:46 transmission.
Obviously Sawyer's mistake
Cops make mistakes all the time. Forgive them and move on.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Though photos and his affidavit seem to contradict Sawyer.
Yes indeed.
Post by donald willis
Sawyer & Brennan--a perfect match!
Opposites attract.
Post by donald willis
LNers in denial!
CTs groping for anything to discredit Brennan.
He discredited himself.
How so? Several witnesses saw a rifle in the 6th floor window.
Debatable.
What is debatable? Six witness gave statements they saw a rifle in the
6th floor window. They were interviewed by police and signed official
written statements as witnesses.
Post by donald willis
Let's take one of those witnesses. Bob Edwards originally said that he saw
the suspect at a wide open window on the 5th floor. The FBI weaned him
off "5th floor". But the "wide open" stood unchallenged.
The reason being there were 3 witnesses looking out wide open windows on
the 5th floor who heard the gunshots coming from the floor above them.
Do the math, that would be the 6th floor.
Post by donald willis
In fact, there are some wide open windows on the 5th floor, the floor
which Edwards originally said the suspect was on. The guy with him,
Ronald Fischer, testified that he could not have seen so much of the
suspect unless the window was open all the way....
So your theory is the three guys on the 5th floor were the real hit team?
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
The rifle belonged to LHO. The empty shells matched that rifle. How did
the rifle and shells get to the 6th floor?
Captain Fritz picked up the shells before they could be photographed. We
can't be sure WHERE they were found....
Fritz picked up one shell and put it back where he found it. In 1963 it
would be proper procedure since the Police had no idea what type of rifle
was used for this ambush. Examining an empty shell would indicate the
caliber of rifle used by the sniper. Later in the search a rifle was
discovered between boxes and the shells found under the window matched the
ammo in the clip.
Post by donald willis
None of the work crew saw a rifle on the
None of the crew who worked on the 6th floor project to replace the oil
stained wood reported seeing a rifle that morning or that LHO had told
them his rifle was for sale, the reason why he brought it to work that
day. If LHO wanted to sell it he would have notified these guys he would
bring it to work so they could take a look at it. LHO carried a paper bag
to work that morning with something heavy inside but mentioned nothing
about a rifle to this floor crew or anyone else, so the gun-for-sale
theory is bogus.
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
6th floor that morning and LHO didn't mention it was for sale. LHO was
seen in the lunchroom then left the building without notifying anyone.
For some reason this delinquent employee went home and rearmed himself
with a pistol then shot a police officer several times as he lay wounded
on the street. Based on a complete search of the building LHO was the
only employee to bring a rifle to work that day. Circumstantial evidence
points to LHO as the sniper in the 6th floor window. Brennan gave a
description almost identical to the person DPD Baker confronted in the
lunchroom.
Including a weight estimate. Try estimating the respective weights of
Williams & Norman in their windows. Right!--you wouldn't even try based
on how little you see of them.
Attempting to guess actual weight from the street is a dubious proposition
and Brennan got it wrong. What the DPD officer should have asked: was the
shooter in the 6th floor window skinny, slender, medium, stocky, large?
Those commonly used descriptions would make more sense. Brennan did miss
the correct weight by several pounds, proving he was just a normal guy in
the crowd on the street, not a conspiracy plant.
Post by donald willis
And if Brennan saw more of *his* man, then the guy wasn't trying to hide
what he was doing.
dcw
Exactly, proving LHO was on a suicide mission not expecting to escape the
TSBD. Ultimately he wanted credit for this evil deed. He played games
with the DPD after his arrest as the poor little patsy. Only the most
gullible of the population bought into that scam.
Oswald wanted a show trial. That's why he asked for ABT or an ACLU lawyer.
donald willis
2017-08-24 23:14:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Sure, it was Brennan who provided height & weight estimates, though he
could hardly, realistically, have done so.
This is old news. Brennan's description was not perfect. Witnesses
seldom get 100% right. He was probably asked the weight by the police
officer and guessed wrong. Brennan estimated height was 5'10". LHO was
5"9" tall. DPD Baker got it right with LHO standing right in front of
Or was he? [cue Mark Snow music] (obscure reference to The X-Files) If you
try hard enough you could find come crazy theories about a second Oswald
or a KGB replacement Oswald who was not 5'9" tall, but actually 5'10"
tall. And if you want to be a really hip apologist you could claim that
Oswald grew an inch taller from when the Marines FALSELY measured his
height to when he was in the TSBD. Or maybe he was standing on bricks or
something. Try harder.
As a 17 year old teenager when he joined the Marines it is possible LHO
did grow another inch taller after his boot camp photo was taken.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Just never admit that Brennan never actually saw Oswald in the window.
He saw LHO in the 6th floor window in two different circumstances.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
him, so a very good guess by Brennan down on the street.
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who volunteered it was a Winchester rifle, though he
admitted he knew nothing about guns.
Cite please.
WC. Interviews. Google.
Please provide a cite where Brennan called it a Winchester.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who didn't have a clothing description, as per Sawyer's
APB. Though he provides one in his original affidavit.
So maybe it was Sawyer's mistake.
I don't think Sawyer just made it up. Someone said it.
Sawyer was an oddball who was so confused at the scene of the crime even
the Dispatcher had to correct his mistakes.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And Brennan did not know that the shooter was in the depository, as per
Sawyer's 12:46 transmission.
Obviously Sawyer's mistake
Cops make mistakes all the time. Forgive them and move on.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Though photos and his affidavit seem to contradict Sawyer.
Yes indeed.
Post by donald willis
Sawyer & Brennan--a perfect match!
Opposites attract.
Post by donald willis
LNers in denial!
CTs groping for anything to discredit Brennan.
He discredited himself.
How so? Several witnesses saw a rifle in the 6th floor window.
Debatable.
What is debatable? Six witness gave statements they saw a rifle in the
6th floor window. They were interviewed by police and signed official
written statements as witnesses.
I find only 4 affidavits from that weekend which even designate a floor
number.

Brennan: "second row of windows from the top"
Worrell: "about 5 or 6 stories up"
Fischer: "there was a man on the fifth floor"
Edwards: "a man at the window on the fifth floor"

As far as I can find, then, only Brennan specifically designated the sixth
floor (or "second... from the top"). A long way from "six".... Actually,
I see no one who specified "6th floor"....

dcw
claviger
2017-08-26 00:53:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Sure, it was Brennan who provided height & weight estimates, though he
could hardly, realistically, have done so.
This is old news. Brennan's description was not perfect. Witnesses
seldom get 100% right. He was probably asked the weight by the police
officer and guessed wrong. Brennan estimated height was 5'10". LHO was
5"9" tall. DPD Baker got it right with LHO standing right in front of
Or was he? [cue Mark Snow music] (obscure reference to The X-Files) If you
try hard enough you could find come crazy theories about a second Oswald
or a KGB replacement Oswald who was not 5'9" tall, but actually 5'10"
tall. And if you want to be a really hip apologist you could claim that
Oswald grew an inch taller from when the Marines FALSELY measured his
height to when he was in the TSBD. Or maybe he was standing on bricks or
something. Try harder.
As a 17 year old teenager when he joined the Marines it is possible LHO
did grow another inch taller after his boot camp photo was taken.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Just never admit that Brennan never actually saw Oswald in the window.
He saw LHO in the 6th floor window in two different circumstances.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
him, so a very good guess by Brennan down on the street.
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who volunteered it was a Winchester rifle, though he
admitted he knew nothing about guns.
Cite please.
WC. Interviews. Google.
Please provide a cite where Brennan called it a Winchester.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who didn't have a clothing description, as per Sawyer's
APB. Though he provides one in his original affidavit.
So maybe it was Sawyer's mistake.
I don't think Sawyer just made it up. Someone said it.
Sawyer was an oddball who was so confused at the scene of the crime even
the Dispatcher had to correct his mistakes.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And Brennan did not know that the shooter was in the depository, as per
Sawyer's 12:46 transmission.
Obviously Sawyer's mistake
Cops make mistakes all the time. Forgive them and move on.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Though photos and his affidavit seem to contradict Sawyer.
Yes indeed.
Post by donald willis
Sawyer & Brennan--a perfect match!
Opposites attract.
Post by donald willis
LNers in denial!
CTs groping for anything to discredit Brennan.
He discredited himself.
How so? Several witnesses saw a rifle in the 6th floor window.
Debatable.
What is debatable? Six witness gave statements they saw a rifle in the
6th floor window. They were interviewed by police and signed official
written statements as witnesses.
I find only 4 affidavits from that weekend which even designate a floor
number.
Brennan: "second row of windows from the top"
Worrell: "about 5 or 6 stories up"
Fischer: "there was a man on the fifth floor"
Edwards: "a man at the window on the fifth floor"
As far as I can find, then, only Brennan specifically designated the sixth
floor (or "second... from the top"). A long way from "six".... Actually,
I see no one who specified "6th floor"....
dcw
Are you a white supremacist trying to blame 3 black employees? Is Johnny
Powell a friend of yours? Here are two witnesses you missed:


TESTIMONY Of MRS. EARLE CABELL
Mr. HUBERT. The Texas Depository Building?
Mrs. CABELL. I was actually facing it.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the first thing you noticed of an extraordinary nature,
or heard?
Mrs. CABELL. I heard the shot, and without having to turn my head, I jerked
my head up.
Mr. HUBERT. Why did you do that?
Mrs. CABELL. Because I heard the direction from which the shot came, and I
just jerked my head up.
Mr. HUBERT. What did you see?
Mrs. CABELL. I saw a projection out of one of those windows. Those windows
on the sixth floor are in groups of twos.
Mr. HUBERT. In which window did you see the projection?
Mrs. CABELL. I have always been a little confused about that, but I think
it was the first window.
Mr. HUBERT. On what floor?
Mrs. CABELL. On the top floor. Now I cannot take oath and say which window.
There was some confusion in my mind.
Mr. HUBERT. But you say there were double windows. Is the confusion about
whether it was the first or second double window, or the first or second
window of the double windows?
Mrs. CABELL. The first or second window of the first group of double windows.
Mr. HUBERT. What was this projection?
Mrs. CABELL. I cannot tell you. It was rather long looking, the projection.
Mr. HUBERT. What did it seem like? An arm of an individual, or something
mechanical?
Mrs. CABELL. I did not know, because I did not see a hand or a head or a
human form behind it. It was in just a fleeting second that I jerked my
head up and I saw something in that window, and I turned around to say to
Earle, "Earle, it is a shot", and before I got the words out, just as I
got the words out, he said, "Oh, no; it must have been a "the second two
shots rang out. After that, there is a certain amount of confusion in my
mind. I was acutely aware of the odor of gunpowder. I was aware that the
motorcade stopped dead still. There was no question about that.
Mr. HUBERT. Let me ask you, after the first shot and your observation of
this object in that window as you have described it, you turned your attention
from that window?
Mrs. CABELL. That is right.
Mr. HUBERT. So that you were not looking in the direction of that window
when the second and third shots were fired?
Mrs. CABELL. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you look in that direction thereafter?
Mrs. CABELL. If I did, I don't recall. I am completely aware of the people
running up that hill. I saw the man throw the child on the ground and throw
himself. I saw a woman in a bright green dress throw herself on the ground.
I saw the policeman running up the grassy slope.
Mr. HUBERT. You also mentioned that you were acutely aware of the smell of
gunpowder?
Mrs. CABELL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. When was that relative to the shots? I mean how soon after?
Mrs. CABELL. I cannot say for sure, because as I told you, the motorcade was
stopped. And somewhere in there, Congressman Roberts said, "That is a
.30-06." I didn't know what a .30-06 was.

(Sounds like Congressman Roberts saw it too.)




TESTIMONY OF ROBERT HILL JACKSON
Mr. SPECTER - Will you identify for me on Commission Exhibit 347, Precisely
as possible, where your automobile was at the time you heard the first
shot?
Mr. JACKSON - Approximately right here, I would say the midpoint of this
building. Approximately where we heard the first report.
Mr. SPECTER - Now, will you mark a black "X" on 347 the spot where your car
was at the time you heard the first shot?
Mr. JACKSON - Right here approximately. And as we heard the first shot, I
believe it was Tom Dillard from the Dallas News who made some remark as to
that sounding like a firecracker, and it could have been somebody else who
said that. But someone else did speak up and make that comment and before
he actually the sentence we heard the other two shots. Then we realized or
we thought it was gunfire, and then we could not at that point see the
President's car. We were still moving slowly, and after the third shot the
second two shots seemed much closer together than the first shot, than
they were to the first shot. Then after the last shot, I guess all of us
were just looking all around and I just looked straight up ahead of me
which would have been looking at the School Book Depository and I noticed
two Negro men in a window straining to see directly above them, and my
eyes followed right on up to the window above them and I saw the rifle, or
what looked like a rifle approximately half of weapon, I guess I saw. and
just looked at it, it was drawn fairly slowly back into the building, and
I saw no one in the window with it. I didn't even see a form in the
window.
Mr. SPECTER - What did you do next?
Mr. JACKSON - I said "There is the gun," or it came from that window. I tried
to point it out. But by the time the other people looked up, of course,
it was gone, and about that time, we were beginning to turn the corner.
Mr. SPECTER - Which corner were you beginning to turn?
Mr. JACKSON - Houston onto Elm.
Mr. SPECTER - I now show you a photograph marked as Commission Exhibit No.
348 and ask you if you can identify what that depicts?
Mr. JACKSON - This is the School Book Depository. This is the window the
two colored men were looking out of. This is the window where the rifle was.
Mr. SPECTER - Will you mark the window where the rifle was with an "A" and
would you please mark the window where you have identified the men below
with a "B."
(Witness marking.)
Mr. SPECTER - Referring to your mark of "A," the photograph will show that
you have marked the window on the sixth floor with the marking being placed
on the window on the westerly half of the first double window.
Mr. JACKSON - I am sorry. This window here on the very end was the window
where the weapon was. I am sorry, I just marked the double - actually this
is the rifle window right here.
Mr. SPECTER - Will you take the black pencil again and draw an arrow - before
you start to mark, hear the rest of the question - as precisely as you
can to the exact spot where you saw what you have described as the rifle.
(Witness marking.)
Mr. SPECTER - Was the window you have just marked as being the spot from
which the rifle protruded, open when you looked up?
Mr. JACKSON - Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER - What is your best recollection as to how far open it was at
that time?
Mr. JACKSON - I would say that it was open like that window there, halfway.
Mr. SPECTER - Indicating a window on the sixth floor of the westernmost
portion of the building open halfway as you described it.
My last comment, as to the description of your last window, is only for the
purpose of what you have said in identifying a window to show how far open
the window was.
Mr. JACKSON - Yes.
donald willis
2017-08-26 18:52:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Sure, it was Brennan who provided height & weight estimates, though he
could hardly, realistically, have done so.
This is old news. Brennan's description was not perfect. Witnesses
seldom get 100% right. He was probably asked the weight by the police
officer and guessed wrong. Brennan estimated height was 5'10". LHO was
5"9" tall. DPD Baker got it right with LHO standing right in front of
Or was he? [cue Mark Snow music] (obscure reference to The X-Files) If you
try hard enough you could find come crazy theories about a second Oswald
or a KGB replacement Oswald who was not 5'9" tall, but actually 5'10"
tall. And if you want to be a really hip apologist you could claim that
Oswald grew an inch taller from when the Marines FALSELY measured his
height to when he was in the TSBD. Or maybe he was standing on bricks or
something. Try harder.
As a 17 year old teenager when he joined the Marines it is possible LHO
did grow another inch taller after his boot camp photo was taken.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Just never admit that Brennan never actually saw Oswald in the window.
He saw LHO in the 6th floor window in two different circumstances.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
him, so a very good guess by Brennan down on the street.
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who volunteered it was a Winchester rifle, though he
admitted he knew nothing about guns.
Cite please.
WC. Interviews. Google.
Please provide a cite where Brennan called it a Winchester.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who didn't have a clothing description, as per Sawyer's
APB. Though he provides one in his original affidavit.
So maybe it was Sawyer's mistake.
I don't think Sawyer just made it up. Someone said it.
Sawyer was an oddball who was so confused at the scene of the crime even
the Dispatcher had to correct his mistakes.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And Brennan did not know that the shooter was in the depository, as per
Sawyer's 12:46 transmission.
Obviously Sawyer's mistake
Cops make mistakes all the time. Forgive them and move on.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Though photos and his affidavit seem to contradict Sawyer.
Yes indeed.
Post by donald willis
Sawyer & Brennan--a perfect match!
Opposites attract.
Post by donald willis
LNers in denial!
CTs groping for anything to discredit Brennan.
He discredited himself.
How so? Several witnesses saw a rifle in the 6th floor window.
Debatable.
What is debatable? Six witness gave statements they saw a rifle in the
6th floor window. They were interviewed by police and signed official
written statements as witnesses.
I find only 4 affidavits from that weekend which even designate a floor
number.
Brennan: "second row of windows from the top"
Worrell: "about 5 or 6 stories up"
Fischer: "there was a man on the fifth floor"
Edwards: "a man at the window on the fifth floor"
As far as I can find, then, only Brennan specifically designated the sixth
floor (or "second... from the top"). A long way from "six".... Actually,
I see no one who specified "6th floor"....
dcw
Are you a white supremacist trying to blame 3 black employees?
Are you trying to stir up a little controversy here? As I've said many
times, I agree with Prof. Marsh on this--Euins thought that a "colored
man" was the shooter, but only because the man was the only one sticking
his head out the upper right hand depository windows just after 12:30pm,
at the moment when Euins happened to be looking back up.

Is Johnny
No, I did not miss these. You specified witnesses who spoke to the police
(or to sheriff's deputies) and who made written statements, and I believe
the only witnesses who fill this bill were the ones who did affidavits the
first weekend. (In fact, Jackson apparently did a written statement that
weekend, but if so it has been lost.) The following are not "written
statements"....
Post by claviger
TESTIMONY Of MRS. EARLE CABELL
Mr. HUBERT. The Texas Depository Building?
Mrs. CABELL. I was actually facing it.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the first thing you noticed of an extraordinary nature,
or heard?
Mrs. CABELL. I heard the shot, and without having to turn my head, I jerked
my head up.
Mr. HUBERT. Why did you do that?
Mrs. CABELL. Because I heard the direction from which the shot came, and I
just jerked my head up.
Mr. HUBERT. What did you see?
Mrs. CABELL. I saw a projection out of one of those windows. Those windows
on the sixth floor are in groups of twos.
Mr. HUBERT. In which window did you see the projection?
Mrs. CABELL. I have always been a little confused about that, but I think
it was the first window.
Mr. HUBERT. On what floor?
Mrs. CABELL. On the top floor.
Interesting, eh? Then she is apparently the only witness to put the
shooter on the *7TH* floor....

Now I cannot take oath and say which window.
Post by claviger
There was some confusion in my mind.
Mr. HUBERT. But you say there were double windows. Is the confusion about
whether it was the first or second double window, or the first or second
window of the double windows?
Mrs. CABELL. The first or second window of the first group of double windows.
Mr. HUBERT. What was this projection?
Mrs. CABELL. I cannot tell you. It was rather long looking, the projection.
Mr. HUBERT. What did it seem like? An arm of an individual, or something
mechanical?
Mrs. CABELL. I did not know, because I did not see a hand or a head or a
human form behind it. It was in just a fleeting second that I jerked my
head up and I saw something in that window, and I turned around to say to
Earle, "Earle, it is a shot", and before I got the words out, just as I
got the words out, he said, "Oh, no; it must have been a "the second two
shots rang out. After that, there is a certain amount of confusion in my
mind. I was acutely aware of the odor of gunpowder. I was aware that the
motorcade stopped dead still. There was no question about that.
Mr. HUBERT. Let me ask you, after the first shot and your observation of
this object in that window as you have described it, you turned your attention
from that window?
Mrs. CABELL. That is right.
Mr. HUBERT. So that you were not looking in the direction of that window
when the second and third shots were fired?
Mrs. CABELL. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you look in that direction thereafter?
Mrs. CABELL. If I did, I don't recall. I am completely aware of the people
running up that hill. I saw the man throw the child on the ground and throw
himself. I saw a woman in a bright green dress throw herself on the ground.
I saw the policeman running up the grassy slope.
Mr. HUBERT. You also mentioned that you were acutely aware of the smell of
gunpowder?
Mrs. CABELL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. When was that relative to the shots? I mean how soon after?
Mrs. CABELL. I cannot say for sure, because as I told you, the motorcade was
stopped. And somewhere in there, Congressman Roberts said, "That is a
.30-06." I didn't know what a .30-06 was.
(Sounds like Congressman Roberts saw it too.)
TESTIMONY OF ROBERT HILL JACKSON
Mr. SPECTER - Will you identify for me on Commission Exhibit 347, Precisely
as possible, where your automobile was at the time you heard the first
shot?
Mr. JACKSON - Approximately right here, I would say the midpoint of this
building. Approximately where we heard the first report.
Mr. SPECTER - Now, will you mark a black "X" on 347 the spot where your car
was at the time you heard the first shot?
Mr. JACKSON - Right here approximately. And as we heard the first shot, I
believe it was Tom Dillard from the Dallas News who made some remark as to
that sounding like a firecracker, and it could have been somebody else who
said that. But someone else did speak up and make that comment and before
he actually the sentence we heard the other two shots. Then we realized or
we thought it was gunfire, and then we could not at that point see the
President's car. We were still moving slowly, and after the third shot the
second two shots seemed much closer together than the first shot, than
they were to the first shot. Then after the last shot, I guess all of us
were just looking all around and I just looked straight up ahead of me
which would have been looking at the School Book Depository and I noticed
two Negro men in a window straining to see directly above them, and my
eyes followed right on up to the window above them and I saw the rifle, or
what looked like a rifle approximately half of weapon, I guess I saw. and
just looked at it, it was drawn fairly slowly back into the building, and
I saw no one in the window with it. I didn't even see a form in the
window.
Mr. SPECTER - What did you do next?
Mr. JACKSON - I said "There is the gun," or it came from that window. I tried
to point it out. But by the time the other people looked up, of course,
it was gone, and about that time, we were beginning to turn the corner.
Mr. SPECTER - Which corner were you beginning to turn?
Mr. JACKSON - Houston onto Elm.
Mr. SPECTER - I now show you a photograph marked as Commission Exhibit No.
348 and ask you if you can identify what that depicts?
Mr. JACKSON - This is the School Book Depository. This is the window the
two colored men were looking out of. This is the window where the rifle was.
Mr. SPECTER - Will you mark the window where the rifle was with an "A" and
would you please mark the window where you have identified the men below
with a "B."
(Witness marking.)
Mr. SPECTER - Referring to your mark of "A," the photograph will show that
you have marked the window on the sixth floor with the marking being placed
on the window on the westerly half of the first double window.
Again, very interesting. The mark, then, would be on a "second window
from the end", as per Patrolman Hill's 12:37 radio transmission....
Post by claviger
Mr. JACKSON - I am sorry. This window here on the very end was the window
where the weapon was. I am sorry, I just marked the double - actually this
is the rifle window right here.
Mr. SPECTER - Will you take the black pencil again and draw an arrow - before
you start to mark, hear the rest of the question - as precisely as you
can to the exact spot where you saw what you have described as the rifle.
(Witness marking.)
Mr. SPECTER - Was the window you have just marked as being the spot from
which the rifle protruded, open when you looked up?
Mr. JACKSON - Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER - What is your best recollection as to how far open it was at
that time?
Mr. JACKSON - I would say that it was open like that window there, halfway.
Mr. SPECTER - Indicating a window on the sixth floor of the westernmost
portion of the building open halfway as you described it.
In fact, if you look at the photo in question, you'll see that the window
so indicated was OPEN ALL THE WAY, at least as far open as casement
windows can be opened! Yes, Jackson too was a witness to a suspect at a
WIDE OPEN WINDOW. Thank you for quoting this!

dcw
claviger
2017-08-27 22:20:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
I find only 4 affidavits from that weekend which even designate a floor
number.
Brennan: "second row of windows from the top"
Worrell: "about 5 or 6 stories up"
Fischer: "there was a man on the fifth floor"
Edwards: "a man at the window on the fifth floor"
As far as I can find, then, only Brennan specifically designated the sixth
floor (or "second... from the top"). A long way from "six".... Actually,
I see no one who specified "6th floor"....
dcw
Are you a white supremacist trying to blame 3 black employees?
Are you trying to stir up a little controversy here?
Moi?
Post by donald willis
As I've said many times, I agree with Prof. Marsh on this--
Who is Professor Marsh? We know Anthony Marsh who claims to be a
bus driver and musician. I have a sneaking suspicion he works for the
CIA as a provocateur to create havoc on blogs and newsgroups about
this controversial case.
Post by donald willis
Euins thought that a "colored man" was the shooter,
He was overheard by two Dallas reporters that he thought the sniper
was a colored man. That is not what he said in his witness statement
or Q&A before the Warren Commission.
Post by donald willis
but only because the man was the only one sticking his head out the
upper right hand depository windows just after 12:30pm, at the
moment when Euins happened to be looking back up.
No, I did not miss these. You specified witnesses who spoke to the police
(or to sheriff's deputies) and who made written statements, and I believe
the only witnesses who fill this bill were the ones who did affidavits the
first weekend. (In fact, Jackson apparently did a written statement that
weekend, but if so it has been lost.) The following are not "written
statements"....
Post by claviger
TESTIMONY Of MRS. EARLE CABELL
Mr. HUBERT. The Texas Depository Building?
Mrs. CABELL. I was actually facing it.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the first thing you noticed of an extraordinary nature,
or heard?
Mrs. CABELL. I heard the shot, and without having to turn my head, I jerked
my head up.
Mr. HUBERT. Why did you do that?
Mrs. CABELL. Because I heard the direction from which the shot came, and I
just jerked my head up.
Mr. HUBERT. What did you see?
Mrs. CABELL. I saw a projection out of one of those windows. Those windows
on the sixth floor are in groups of twos.
Mr. HUBERT. In which window did you see the projection?
Mrs. CABELL. I have always been a little confused about that, but I think
it was the first window.
Mr. HUBERT. On what floor?
Mrs. CABELL. On the top floor.
Interesting, eh? Then she is apparently the only witness to put the
shooter on the *7TH* floor....
"On the top floor."
Post by donald willis
Now I cannot take oath and say which window.
Do you think she got it right and all other witnesses got it wrong
including those employees on the 5th floor?
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
There was some confusion in my mind.
Mr. HUBERT. But you say there were double windows. Is the confusion about
whether it was the first or second double window, or the first or second
window of the double windows?
Mrs. CABELL. The first or second window of the first group of double windows.
Mr. HUBERT. What was this projection?
Mrs. CABELL. I cannot tell you. It was rather long looking, the projection.
Mr. HUBERT. What did it seem like? An arm of an individual, or something
mechanical?
Mrs. CABELL. I did not know, because I did not see a hand or a head or a
human form behind it. It was in just a fleeting second that I jerked my
head up and I saw something in that window, and I turned around to say to
Earle, "Earle, it is a shot", and before I got the words out, just as I
got the words out, he said, "Oh, no; it must have been a "the second two
shots rang out. After that, there is a certain amount of confusion in my
mind. I was acutely aware of the odor of gunpowder. I was aware that the
motorcade stopped dead still. There was no question about that.
Mr. HUBERT. Let me ask you, after the first shot and your observation of
this object in that window as you have described it, you turned your attention
from that window?
Mrs. CABELL. That is right.
Mr. HUBERT. So that you were not looking in the direction of that window
when the second and third shots were fired?
Mrs. CABELL. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you look in that direction thereafter?
Mrs. CABELL. If I did, I don't recall. I am completely aware of the people
running up that hill. I saw the man throw the child on the ground and throw
himself. I saw a woman in a bright green dress throw herself on the ground.
I saw the policeman running up the grassy slope.
Mr. HUBERT. You also mentioned that you were acutely aware of the smell of
gunpowder?
Mrs. CABELL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. When was that relative to the shots? I mean how soon after?
Mrs. CABELL. I cannot say for sure, because as I told you, the motorcade was
stopped. And somewhere in there, Congressman Roberts said, "That is a
.30-06." I didn't know what a .30-06 was.
(Sounds like Congressman Roberts saw it too.)
TESTIMONY OF ROBERT HILL JACKSON
Mr. SPECTER - Will you identify for me on Commission Exhibit 347, Precisely
as possible, where your automobile was at the time you heard the first
shot?
Mr. JACKSON - Approximately right here, I would say the midpoint of this
building. Approximately where we heard the first report.
Mr. SPECTER - Now, will you mark a black "X" on 347 the spot where your car
was at the time you heard the first shot?
Mr. JACKSON - Right here approximately. And as we heard the first shot, I
believe it was Tom Dillard from the Dallas News who made some remark as to
that sounding like a firecracker, and it could have been somebody else who
said that. But someone else did speak up and make that comment and before
he actually the sentence we heard the other two shots. Then we realized or
we thought it was gunfire, and then we could not at that point see the
President's car. We were still moving slowly, and after the third shot the
second two shots seemed much closer together than the first shot, than
they were to the first shot. Then after the last shot, I guess all of us
were just looking all around and I just looked straight up ahead of me
which would have been looking at the School Book Depository and I noticed
two Negro men in a window straining to see directly above them, and my
eyes followed right on up to the window above them and I saw the rifle, or
what looked like a rifle approximately half of weapon, I guess I saw. and
just looked at it, it was drawn fairly slowly back into the building, and
I saw no one in the window with it. I didn't even see a form in the
window.
Mr. SPECTER - What did you do next?
Mr. JACKSON - I said "There is the gun," or it came from that window. I tried
to point it out. But by the time the other people looked up, of course,
it was gone, and about that time, we were beginning to turn the corner.
Mr. SPECTER - Which corner were you beginning to turn?
Mr. JACKSON - Houston onto Elm.
Mr. SPECTER - I now show you a photograph marked as Commission Exhibit No.
348 and ask you if you can identify what that depicts?
Mr. JACKSON - This is the School Book Depository. This is the window the
two colored men were looking out of. This is the window where the rifle was.
Mr. SPECTER - Will you mark the window where the rifle was with an "A" and
would you please mark the window where you have identified the men below
with a "B."
(Witness marking.)
Mr. SPECTER - Referring to your mark of "A," the photograph will show that
you have marked the window on the sixth floor with the marking being placed
on the window on the westerly half of the first double window.
Again, very interesting. The mark, then, would be on a "second window
from the end", as per Patrolman Hill's 12:37 radio transmission....
Post by claviger
Mr. JACKSON - I am sorry. This window here on the very end was the window
where the weapon was. I am sorry, I just marked the double - actually this
is the rifle window right here.
Mr. SPECTER - Will you take the black pencil again and draw an arrow - before
you start to mark, hear the rest of the question - as precisely as you
can to the exact spot where you saw what you have described as the rifle.
(Witness marking.)
Mr. SPECTER - Was the window you have just marked as being the spot from
which the rifle protruded, open when you looked up?
Mr. JACKSON - Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER - What is your best recollection as to how far open it was at
that time?
Mr. JACKSON - I would say that it was open like that window there, halfway.
Mr. SPECTER - Indicating a window on the sixth floor of the westernmost
portion of the building open halfway as you described it.
In fact, if you look at the photo in question, you'll see that the window
so indicated was OPEN ALL THE WAY, at least as far open as casement
windows can be opened! Yes, Jackson too was a witness to a suspect at a
WIDE OPEN WINDOW. Thank you for quoting this!
dcw
Keep in mind loud shots shocked and horrified the witnesses in Dealey
Plaza. The startling gunshots were over in 8-10 seconds. First disbelief
then fear caused panic in some and confusion in others. We know two
things for a fact: there were 3 black employees on the 5th floor and an
open window on the 6th floor above them. Photos prove what floor those
black employees were on and an open window on the 6th floor. Those
employees heard shots from directly above and could hear the bolt action
and empty shells hit the floor. All these witness gave statements to the
DCSD or testimony to the Warren Commission.

BRENNAN, Howard Leslie

CABEL, Mrs Earle

COUCH, Malcolm O

CRAWFORD, James N

EDWARDS, Robert Edwin

EUINS, Amos Lee

FISHER, Ronald B

JACKSON, Robert Hill

ROWLAND, Arnold Louis

WORRELL, James Richard Jr

That is a dozen witnesses who saw or heard a rifle on the 6th floor firing
from an open window.

Are you trying to insinuate they all got it wrong? If so please tell us
which wide open window shots were fired from by a colored sniper.
donald willis
2017-08-28 16:42:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sunday, August 27, 2017 at 3:20:53 PM UTC-7, CUTe on a "second window
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
from the end", as per Patrolman Hill's 12:37 radio transmission....
Post by claviger
Mr. JACKSON - I am sorry. This window here on the very end was the window
where the weapon was. I am sorry, I just marked the double - actually this
is the rifle window right here.
Mr. SPECTER - Will you take the black pencil again and draw an arrow - before
you start to mark, hear the rest of the question - as precisely as you
can to the exact spot where you saw what you have described as the rifle.
(Witness marking.)
Mr. SPECTER - Was the window you have just marked as being the spot from
which the rifle protruded, open when you looked up?
Mr. JACKSON - Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER - What is your best recollection as to how far open it was at
that time?
Mr. JACKSON - I would say that it was open like that window there, halfway.
Mr. SPECTER - Indicating a window on the sixth floor of the westernmost
portion of the building open halfway as you described it.
In fact, if you look at the photo in question, you'll see that the window
so indicated was OPEN ALL THE WAY, at least as far open as casement
windows can be opened! Yes, Jackson too was a witness to a suspect at a
2 WIDE OPEN WINDOW. Thank you for quoting this!
dcw
Keep in mind loud shots shocked and horrified the witnesses in Dealey
Plaza. The startling gunshots were over in 8-10 seconds. First disbelief
then fear caused panic in some and confusion in others. We know two
things for a fact: there were 3 black employees on the 5th floor and an
open window on the 6th floor above them. Photos prove what floor those
black employees were on and an open window on the 6th floor. Those
employees heard shots from directly above and could hear the bolt action
and empty shells hit the floor.
As has been pointed out repeatedly on this forum, Norman failed to mention
these sounds for some 8 days.

All these witness gave statements to the
Post by claviger
DCSD or testimony to the Warren Commission.
BRENNAN, Howard Leslie WIDE OPEN WINDOW
CABEL, Mrs Earle 7TH FLOOR
COUCH, Malcolm O 5TH OR 6TH FLOOR MAYBE A WIDE OPEN WINDOW
CRAWFORD, James N
EDWARDS, Robert Edwin WIDE OPEN WINDOW 5TH FLOOR (IN ORIGINAL STATEMENT), 6TH FLOOR (AT THE HEARINGS)
EUINS, Amos Lee SHOOTER WAS A "COLORED MAN"
FISHER, Ronald B WIDE OPEN WINDOW 5TH OR 6TH FLOOR
JACKSON, Robert Hill WIDE OPEN WINDOW
ROWLAND, Arnold Louis
WORRELL, James Richard Jr 5TH OR 6TH FLOOR
That is a dozen witnesses who saw or heard a rifle on the 6th floor firing
from an open window.
See above annotations. None of the above presents a cut-and-dried case
for any particular floor.
Post by claviger
Are you trying to insinuate they all got it wrong?
Actually, note that none of them unequivocally got it "right" (from your
way of thinking).

If so please tell us
Post by claviger
which wide open window shots were fired from by a colored sniper.
You're thinking of Euins' first statements....

dcw
donald willis
2017-08-29 15:00:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
I find only 4 affidavits from that weekend which even designate a floor
number.
Brennan: "second row of windows from the top"
Worrell: "about 5 or 6 stories up"
Fischer: "there was a man on the fifth floor"
Edwards: "a man at the window on the fifth floor"
As far as I can find, then, only Brennan specifically designated the sixth
floor (or "second... from the top"). A long way from "six".... Actually,
I see no one who specified "6th floor"....
dcw
Are you a white supremacist trying to blame 3 black employees?
Are you trying to stir up a little controversy here?
Moi?
Post by donald willis
As I've said many times, I agree with Prof. Marsh on this--
Who is Professor Marsh? We know Anthony Marsh who claims to be a
bus driver and musician. I have a sneaking suspicion he works for the
CIA as a provocateur to create havoc on blogs and newsgroups about
this controversial case.
Post by donald willis
Euins thought that a "colored man" was the shooter,
He was overheard by two Dallas reporters that he thought the sniper
was a colored man. That is not what he said in his witness statement
or Q&A before the Warren Commission.
Post by donald willis
but only because the man was the only one sticking his head out the
upper right hand depository windows just after 12:30pm, at the
moment when Euins happened to be looking back up.
No, I did not miss these. You specified witnesses who spoke to the police
(or to sheriff's deputies) and who made written statements, and I believe
the only witnesses who fill this bill were the ones who did affidavits the
first weekend. (In fact, Jackson apparently did a written statement that
weekend, but if so it has been lost.) The following are not "written
statements"....
Post by claviger
TESTIMONY Of MRS. EARLE CABELL
Mr. HUBERT. The Texas Depository Building?
Mrs. CABELL. I was actually facing it.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the first thing you noticed of an extraordinary nature,
or heard?
Mrs. CABELL. I heard the shot, and without having to turn my head, I jerked
my head up.
Mr. HUBERT. Why did you do that?
Mrs. CABELL. Because I heard the direction from which the shot came, and I
just jerked my head up.
Mr. HUBERT. What did you see?
Mrs. CABELL. I saw a projection out of one of those windows. Those windows
on the sixth floor are in groups of twos.
Mr. HUBERT. In which window did you see the projection?
Mrs. CABELL. I have always been a little confused about that, but I think
it was the first window.
Mr. HUBERT. On what floor?
Mrs. CABELL. On the top floor.
Interesting, eh? Then she is apparently the only witness to put the
shooter on the *7TH* floor....
"On the top floor."
Post by donald willis
Now I cannot take oath and say which window.
Do you think she got it right and all other witnesses got it wrong
including those employees on the 5th floor?
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
There was some confusion in my mind.
Mr. HUBERT. But you say there were double windows. Is the confusion about
whether it was the first or second double window, or the first or second
window of the double windows?
Mrs. CABELL. The first or second window of the first group of double windows.
Mr. HUBERT. What was this projection?
Mrs. CABELL. I cannot tell you. It was rather long looking, the projection.
Mr. HUBERT. What did it seem like? An arm of an individual, or something
mechanical?
Mrs. CABELL. I did not know, because I did not see a hand or a head or a
human form behind it. It was in just a fleeting second that I jerked my
head up and I saw something in that window, and I turned around to say to
Earle, "Earle, it is a shot", and before I got the words out, just as I
got the words out, he said, "Oh, no; it must have been a "the second two
shots rang out. After that, there is a certain amount of confusion in my
mind. I was acutely aware of the odor of gunpowder. I was aware that the
motorcade stopped dead still. There was no question about that.
Mr. HUBERT. Let me ask you, after the first shot and your observation of
this object in that window as you have described it, you turned your attention
from that window?
Mrs. CABELL. That is right.
Mr. HUBERT. So that you were not looking in the direction of that window
when the second and third shots were fired?
Mrs. CABELL. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you look in that direction thereafter?
Mrs. CABELL. If I did, I don't recall. I am completely aware of the people
running up that hill. I saw the man throw the child on the ground and throw
himself. I saw a woman in a bright green dress throw herself on the ground.
I saw the policeman running up the grassy slope.
Mr. HUBERT. You also mentioned that you were acutely aware of the smell of
gunpowder?
Mrs. CABELL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. When was that relative to the shots? I mean how soon after?
Mrs. CABELL. I cannot say for sure, because as I told you, the motorcade was
stopped. And somewhere in there, Congressman Roberts said, "That is a
.30-06." I didn't know what a .30-06 was.
(Sounds like Congressman Roberts saw it too.)
TESTIMONY OF ROBERT HILL JACKSON
Mr. SPECTER - Will you identify for me on Commission Exhibit 347, Precisely
as possible, where your automobile was at the time you heard the first
shot?
Mr. JACKSON - Approximately right here, I would say the midpoint of this
building. Approximately where we heard the first report.
Mr. SPECTER - Now, will you mark a black "X" on 347 the spot where your car
was at the time you heard the first shot?
Mr. JACKSON - Right here approximately. And as we heard the first shot, I
believe it was Tom Dillard from the Dallas News who made some remark as to
that sounding like a firecracker, and it could have been somebody else who
said that. But someone else did speak up and make that comment and before
he actually the sentence we heard the other two shots. Then we realized or
we thought it was gunfire, and then we could not at that point see the
President's car. We were still moving slowly, and after the third shot the
second two shots seemed much closer together than the first shot, than
they were to the first shot. Then after the last shot, I guess all of us
were just looking all around and I just looked straight up ahead of me
which would have been looking at the School Book Depository and I noticed
two Negro men in a window straining to see directly above them, and my
eyes followed right on up to the window above them and I saw the rifle, or
what looked like a rifle approximately half of weapon, I guess I saw. and
just looked at it, it was drawn fairly slowly back into the building, and
I saw no one in the window with it. I didn't even see a form in the
window.
Mr. SPECTER - What did you do next?
Mr. JACKSON - I said "There is the gun," or it came from that window. I tried
to point it out. But by the time the other people looked up, of course,
it was gone, and about that time, we were beginning to turn the corner.
Mr. SPECTER - Which corner were you beginning to turn?
Mr. JACKSON - Houston onto Elm.
Mr. SPECTER - I now show you a photograph marked as Commission Exhibit No.
348 and ask you if you can identify what that depicts?
Mr. JACKSON - This is the School Book Depository. This is the window the
two colored men were looking out of. This is the window where the rifle was.
Mr. SPECTER - Will you mark the window where the rifle was with an "A" and
would you please mark the window where you have identified the men below
with a "B."
(Witness marking.)
Mr. SPECTER - Referring to your mark of "A," the photograph will show that
you have marked the window on the sixth floor with the marking being placed
on the window on the westerly half of the first double window.
Again, very interesting. The mark, then, would be on a "second window
from the end", as per Patrolman Hill's 12:37 radio transmission....
Post by claviger
Mr. JACKSON - I am sorry. This window here on the very end was the window
where the weapon was. I am sorry, I just marked the double - actually this
is the rifle window right here.
Mr. SPECTER - Will you take the black pencil again and draw an arrow - before
you start to mark, hear the rest of the question - as precisely as you
can to the exact spot where you saw what you have described as the rifle.
(Witness marking.)
Mr. SPECTER - Was the window you have just marked as being the spot from
which the rifle protruded, open when you looked up?
Mr. JACKSON - Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER - What is your best recollection as to how far open it was at
that time?
Mr. JACKSON - I would say that it was open like that window there, halfway.
Mr. SPECTER - Indicating a window on the sixth floor of the westernmost
portion of the building open halfway as you described it.
In fact, if you look at the photo in question, you'll see that the window
so indicated was OPEN ALL THE WAY, at least as far open as casement
windows can be opened! Yes, Jackson too was a witness to a suspect at a
WIDE OPEN WINDOW. Thank you for quoting this!
dcw
Keep in mind loud shots shocked and horrified the witnesses in Dealey
Plaza. The startling gunshots were over in 8-10 seconds. First disbelief
then fear caused panic in some and confusion in others. We know two
things for a fact: there were 3 black employees on the 5th floor and an
open window on the 6th floor above them. Photos prove what floor those
black employees were on and an open window on the 6th floor. Those
employees heard shots from directly above and could hear the bolt action
and empty shells hit the floor. All these witness gave statements to the
DCSD or testimony to the Warren Commission.
BRENNAN, Howard Leslie
CABEL, Mrs Earle
COUCH, Malcolm O
CRAWFORD, James N
Interesting. Whatever or wherever Crawford saw *something*, it wasn't
important enough to stick around and follow-up on his (fleeting)
observation....
Post by claviger
EDWARDS, Robert Edwin
EUINS, Amos Lee
FISHER, Ronald B
JACKSON, Robert Hill
ROWLAND, Arnold Louis
WORRELL, James Richard Jr
That is a dozen witnesses who saw or heard a rifle on the 6th floor firing
from an open window.
Are you trying to insinuate they all got it wrong? If so please tell us
which wide open window shots were fired from by a colored sniper.
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-30 00:11:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
I find only 4 affidavits from that weekend which even designate a floor
number.
Brennan: "second row of windows from the top"
Worrell: "about 5 or 6 stories up"
Fischer: "there was a man on the fifth floor"
Edwards: "a man at the window on the fifth floor"
As far as I can find, then, only Brennan specifically designated the sixth
floor (or "second... from the top"). A long way from "six".... Actually,
I see no one who specified "6th floor"....
dcw
Are you a white supremacist trying to blame 3 black employees?
Are you trying to stir up a little controversy here?
Moi?
Post by donald willis
As I've said many times, I agree with Prof. Marsh on this--
Who is Professor Marsh? We know Anthony Marsh who claims to be a
bus driver and musician. I have a sneaking suspicion he works for the
CIA as a provocateur to create havoc on blogs and newsgroups about
this controversial case.
Silly boy. I am the only Marsh here and usually I am the only Anthony
here. I do not claim to be a bus driver. I am retired, which is why I can
spend all my time here. I used to play music jobs, but no longer can. I am
not on BLOGS. What blogs do you say I am on? Or is your only purpose
posting here to slander me? I enjoy your paranoia, but I made it quite
clear why I would never work for the CIA. My father worked with them and
they burned him.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Euins thought that a "colored man" was the shooter,
He was overheard by two Dallas reporters that he thought the sniper
was a colored man. That is not what he said in his witness statement
or Q&A before the Warren Commission.
He was told by the cops not to say it was a black man or his family
would be in danger.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
but only because the man was the only one sticking his head out the
upper right hand depository windows just after 12:30pm, at the
moment when Euins happened to be looking back up.
No, I did not miss these. You specified witnesses who spoke to the police
(or to sheriff's deputies) and who made written statements, and I believe
the only witnesses who fill this bill were the ones who did affidavits the
first weekend. (In fact, Jackson apparently did a written statement that
weekend, but if so it has been lost.) The following are not "written
statements"....
Post by claviger
TESTIMONY Of MRS. EARLE CABELL
Mr. HUBERT. The Texas Depository Building?
Mrs. CABELL. I was actually facing it.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the first thing you noticed of an extraordinary nature,
or heard?
Mrs. CABELL. I heard the shot, and without having to turn my head, I jerked
my head up.
Mr. HUBERT. Why did you do that?
Mrs. CABELL. Because I heard the direction from which the shot came, and I
just jerked my head up.
Mr. HUBERT. What did you see?
Mrs. CABELL. I saw a projection out of one of those windows. Those windows
on the sixth floor are in groups of twos.
Mr. HUBERT. In which window did you see the projection?
Mrs. CABELL. I have always been a little confused about that, but I think
it was the first window.
Mr. HUBERT. On what floor?
Mrs. CABELL. On the top floor.
Interesting, eh? Then she is apparently the only witness to put the
shooter on the *7TH* floor....
"On the top floor."
Post by donald willis
Now I cannot take oath and say which window.
Do you think she got it right and all other witnesses got it wrong
including those employees on the 5th floor?
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
There was some confusion in my mind.
Mr. HUBERT. But you say there were double windows. Is the confusion about
whether it was the first or second double window, or the first or second
window of the double windows?
Mrs. CABELL. The first or second window of the first group of double windows.
Mr. HUBERT. What was this projection?
Mrs. CABELL. I cannot tell you. It was rather long looking, the projection.
Mr. HUBERT. What did it seem like? An arm of an individual, or something
mechanical?
Mrs. CABELL. I did not know, because I did not see a hand or a head or a
human form behind it. It was in just a fleeting second that I jerked my
head up and I saw something in that window, and I turned around to say to
Earle, "Earle, it is a shot", and before I got the words out, just as I
got the words out, he said, "Oh, no; it must have been a "the second two
shots rang out. After that, there is a certain amount of confusion in my
mind. I was acutely aware of the odor of gunpowder. I was aware that the
motorcade stopped dead still. There was no question about that.
Mr. HUBERT. Let me ask you, after the first shot and your observation of
this object in that window as you have described it, you turned your attention
from that window?
Mrs. CABELL. That is right.
Mr. HUBERT. So that you were not looking in the direction of that window
when the second and third shots were fired?
Mrs. CABELL. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you look in that direction thereafter?
Mrs. CABELL. If I did, I don't recall. I am completely aware of the people
running up that hill. I saw the man throw the child on the ground and throw
himself. I saw a woman in a bright green dress throw herself on the ground.
I saw the policeman running up the grassy slope.
Mr. HUBERT. You also mentioned that you were acutely aware of the smell of
gunpowder?
Mrs. CABELL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. When was that relative to the shots? I mean how soon after?
Mrs. CABELL. I cannot say for sure, because as I told you, the motorcade was
stopped. And somewhere in there, Congressman Roberts said, "That is a
.30-06." I didn't know what a .30-06 was.
(Sounds like Congressman Roberts saw it too.)
TESTIMONY OF ROBERT HILL JACKSON
Mr. SPECTER - Will you identify for me on Commission Exhibit 347, Precisely
as possible, where your automobile was at the time you heard the first
shot?
Mr. JACKSON - Approximately right here, I would say the midpoint of this
building. Approximately where we heard the first report.
Mr. SPECTER - Now, will you mark a black "X" on 347 the spot where your car
was at the time you heard the first shot?
Mr. JACKSON - Right here approximately. And as we heard the first shot, I
believe it was Tom Dillard from the Dallas News who made some remark as to
that sounding like a firecracker, and it could have been somebody else who
said that. But someone else did speak up and make that comment and before
he actually the sentence we heard the other two shots. Then we realized or
we thought it was gunfire, and then we could not at that point see the
President's car. We were still moving slowly, and after the third shot the
second two shots seemed much closer together than the first shot, than
they were to the first shot. Then after the last shot, I guess all of us
were just looking all around and I just looked straight up ahead of me
which would have been looking at the School Book Depository and I noticed
two Negro men in a window straining to see directly above them, and my
eyes followed right on up to the window above them and I saw the rifle, or
what looked like a rifle approximately half of weapon, I guess I saw. and
just looked at it, it was drawn fairly slowly back into the building, and
I saw no one in the window with it. I didn't even see a form in the
window.
Mr. SPECTER - What did you do next?
Mr. JACKSON - I said "There is the gun," or it came from that window. I tried
to point it out. But by the time the other people looked up, of course,
it was gone, and about that time, we were beginning to turn the corner.
Mr. SPECTER - Which corner were you beginning to turn?
Mr. JACKSON - Houston onto Elm.
Mr. SPECTER - I now show you a photograph marked as Commission Exhibit No.
348 and ask you if you can identify what that depicts?
Mr. JACKSON - This is the School Book Depository. This is the window the
two colored men were looking out of. This is the window where the rifle was.
Mr. SPECTER - Will you mark the window where the rifle was with an "A" and
would you please mark the window where you have identified the men below
with a "B."
(Witness marking.)
Mr. SPECTER - Referring to your mark of "A," the photograph will show that
you have marked the window on the sixth floor with the marking being placed
on the window on the westerly half of the first double window.
Again, very interesting. The mark, then, would be on a "second window
from the end", as per Patrolman Hill's 12:37 radio transmission....
Post by claviger
Mr. JACKSON - I am sorry. This window here on the very end was the window
where the weapon was. I am sorry, I just marked the double - actually this
is the rifle window right here.
Mr. SPECTER - Will you take the black pencil again and draw an arrow - before
you start to mark, hear the rest of the question - as precisely as you
can to the exact spot where you saw what you have described as the rifle.
(Witness marking.)
Mr. SPECTER - Was the window you have just marked as being the spot from
which the rifle protruded, open when you looked up?
Mr. JACKSON - Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER - What is your best recollection as to how far open it was at
that time?
Mr. JACKSON - I would say that it was open like that window there, halfway.
Mr. SPECTER - Indicating a window on the sixth floor of the westernmost
portion of the building open halfway as you described it.
In fact, if you look at the photo in question, you'll see that the window
so indicated was OPEN ALL THE WAY, at least as far open as casement
windows can be opened! Yes, Jackson too was a witness to a suspect at a
WIDE OPEN WINDOW. Thank you for quoting this!
dcw
Keep in mind loud shots shocked and horrified the witnesses in Dealey
Plaza. The startling gunshots were over in 8-10 seconds. First disbelief
then fear caused panic in some and confusion in others. We know two
things for a fact: there were 3 black employees on the 5th floor and an
open window on the 6th floor above them. Photos prove what floor those
black employees were on and an open window on the 6th floor. Those
employees heard shots from directly above and could hear the bolt action
and empty shells hit the floor. All these witness gave statements to the
DCSD or testimony to the Warren Commission.
BRENNAN, Howard Leslie
CABEL, Mrs Earle
COUCH, Malcolm O
CRAWFORD, James N
EDWARDS, Robert Edwin
EUINS, Amos Lee
FISHER, Ronald B
JACKSON, Robert Hill
ROWLAND, Arnold Louis
WORRELL, James Richard Jr
That is a dozen witnesses who saw or heard a rifle on the 6th floor firing
from an open window.
Are you trying to insinuate they all got it wrong? If so please tell us
which wide open window shots were fired from by a colored sniper.
donald willis
2017-08-26 01:14:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Sure, it was Brennan who provided height & weight estimates, though he
could hardly, realistically, have done so.
This is old news. Brennan's description was not perfect. Witnesses
seldom get 100% right. He was probably asked the weight by the police
officer and guessed wrong. Brennan estimated height was 5'10". LHO was
5"9" tall. DPD Baker got it right with LHO standing right in front of
Or was he? [cue Mark Snow music] (obscure reference to The X-Files) If you
try hard enough you could find come crazy theories about a second Oswald
or a KGB replacement Oswald who was not 5'9" tall, but actually 5'10"
tall. And if you want to be a really hip apologist you could claim that
Oswald grew an inch taller from when the Marines FALSELY measured his
height to when he was in the TSBD. Or maybe he was standing on bricks or
something. Try harder.
As a 17 year old teenager when he joined the Marines it is possible LHO
did grow another inch taller after his boot camp photo was taken.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Just never admit that Brennan never actually saw Oswald in the window.
He saw LHO in the 6th floor window in two different circumstances.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
him, so a very good guess by Brennan down on the street.
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who volunteered it was a Winchester rifle, though he
admitted he knew nothing about guns.
Cite please.
WC. Interviews. Google.
Please provide a cite where Brennan called it a Winchester.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who didn't have a clothing description, as per Sawyer's
APB. Though he provides one in his original affidavit.
So maybe it was Sawyer's mistake.
I don't think Sawyer just made it up. Someone said it.
Sawyer was an oddball who was so confused at the scene of the crime even
the Dispatcher had to correct his mistakes.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And Brennan did not know that the shooter was in the depository, as per
Sawyer's 12:46 transmission.
Obviously Sawyer's mistake
Cops make mistakes all the time. Forgive them and move on.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Though photos and his affidavit seem to contradict Sawyer.
Yes indeed.
Post by donald willis
Sawyer & Brennan--a perfect match!
Opposites attract.
Post by donald willis
LNers in denial!
CTs groping for anything to discredit Brennan.
He discredited himself.
How so? Several witnesses saw a rifle in the 6th floor window.
Debatable.
What is debatable? Six witness gave statements they saw a rifle in the
6th floor window. They were interviewed by police and signed official
written statements as witnesses.
Post by donald willis
Let's take one of those witnesses. Bob Edwards originally said that he saw
the suspect at a wide open window on the 5th floor. The FBI weaned him
off "5th floor". But the "wide open" stood unchallenged.
The reason being there were 3 witnesses looking out wide open windows on
the 5th floor who heard the gunshots coming from the floor above them.
Do the math, that would be the 6th floor.
The math here is "5=5". As you say, the wide open windows were indeed on
the 5th floor. The two witnesses (Edwards & Fischer) were watching
someone on the 5th floor, in a wide open window.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
In fact, there are some wide open windows on the 5th floor, the floor
which Edwards originally said the suspect was on. The guy with him,
Ronald Fischer, testified that he could not have seen so much of the
suspect unless the window was open all the way....
So your theory is the three guys on the 5th floor were the real hit team?
No. But Fischer rules out the 6th floor, at least at the east end, where
there were no wide open window in which Fischer could have seen to
much.....
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
The rifle belonged to LHO. The empty shells matched that rifle. How did
the rifle and shells get to the 6th floor?
Captain Fritz picked up the shells before they could be photographed. We
can't be sure WHERE they were found....
Fritz picked up one shell and put it back where he found it.
There's no basis for this statement. Maybe you're confusing Fritz's
ejecting a bullet from the rifle. And none of the three witnesses to the
picking up of the three hulls under the windows said that Fritz put them
back where he found them.

In 1963 it
Post by claviger
would be proper procedure since the Police had no idea what type of rifle
was used for this ambush. Examining an empty shell would indicate the
caliber of rifle used by the sniper.
But there's no witness to such an event--Mooney, Alyea, and Faulkner all
say that Fritz picked up all the shells; none of them says that he put
them back.

dcw
claviger
2017-08-26 18:43:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
LNers in denial!
CTs groping for anything to discredit Brennan.
He discredited himself.
How so? Several witnesses saw a rifle in the 6th floor window.
Debatable.
What is debatable? Six witness gave statements they saw a rifle in the
6th floor window. They were interviewed by police and signed official
written statements as witnesses.
Post by donald willis
Let's take one of those witnesses. Bob Edwards originally said that he saw
the suspect at a wide open window on the 5th floor. The FBI weaned him
off "5th floor". But the "wide open" stood unchallenged.
The reason being there were 3 witnesses looking out wide open windows on
the 5th floor who heard the gunshots coming from the floor above them.
Do the math, that would be the 6th floor.
The math here is "5=5". As you say, the wide open windows were indeed on
the 5th floor. The two witnesses (Edwards & Fischer) were watching
someone on the 5th floor, in a wide open window.
So 3 black employees on the 5th floor shot the President? Did they use the same rifle found on the 6th floor?
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
In fact, there are some wide open windows on the 5th floor, the floor
which Edwards originally said the suspect was on. The guy with him,
Ronald Fischer, testified that he could not have seen so much of the
suspect unless the window was open all the way....
So your theory is the three guys on the 5th floor were the real hit team?
No. But Fischer rules out the 6th floor, at least at the east end, where
there were no wide open window in which Fischer could have seen to
much.....
So if not the 6th floor it must be the 5th floor according to your
interpretation. You are really hung up on the "wide open" comment as the
most compelling evidence of all. Did it ever occur to you that witnesses
might conflate their memory of this traumatic event? Is it possible they
made a mistake of assuming all open windows must have been wide open at
the time?
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
The rifle belonged to LHO. The empty shells matched that rifle. How did
the rifle and shells get to the 6th floor?
Captain Fritz picked up the shells before they could be photographed. We
can't be sure WHERE they were found....
Fritz picked up one shell and put it back where he found it.
There's no basis for this statement. Maybe you're confusing Fritz's
ejecting a bullet from the rifle. And none of the three witnesses to the
picking up of the three hulls under the windows said that Fritz put them
back where he found them.
What 3 witnesses?
Post by donald willis
In 1963 it
Post by claviger
would be proper procedure since the Police had no idea what type of rifle
was used for this ambush. Examining an empty shell would indicate the
caliber of rifle used by the sniper.
But there's no witness to such an event--Mooney, Alyea, and Faulkner all
say that Fritz picked up all the shells; none of them says that he put
them back.
dcw
Cite please.
donald willis
2017-08-27 18:16:15 UTC
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Post by claviger
LNers in denial! CUT
So if not the 6th floor it must be the 5th floor according to your
interpretation. You are really hung up on the "wide open" comment as the
most compelling evidence of all. Did it ever occur to you that witnesses
might conflate their memory of this traumatic event? Is it possible they
made a mistake of assuming all open windows must have been wide open at
the time?
Good question! But, No, at least not in either Brennan's or Fischer's
case. Brennan, in his testimony--as he examined a photo of the
TSBD--specifically ruled out the half-open "sniper's nest" window. He
added, for Belin, that the sniper's window was open more like the wide
open windows on the fifth floor. BRENNAN RULED OUT THE SNIPER'S NEST!
He was not aware that the photo he was looking at was a photo of the
depository taken about 12:30, nor did Belin, unhelpfully, make him aware.
Thanks to Belin's cowardly sin of omission, we will always have a
contradiction here. I'd like to have seen, at least, how Belin and
Brennan cleared up the matter.

Meanwhile, as I've said, Fischer testified that he could not have seen as
much of the suspect if the window had not been open all the way. He even
saw his slacks! Again, Belin failed to challenge the witness on this
point, perhaps afraid that he might find out too much....

dcw
donald willis
2017-08-27 22:22:36 UTC
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Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
LNers in denial!
CTs groping for anything to discredit Brennan.
He discredited himself.
How so? Several witnesses saw a rifle in the 6th floor window.
Debatable.
What is debatable? Six witness gave statements they saw a rifle in the
6th floor window. They were interviewed by police and signed official
written statements as witnesses.
Post by donald willis
Let's take one of those witnesses. Bob Edwards originally said that he saw
the suspect at a wide open window on the 5th floor. The FBI weaned him
off "5th floor". But the "wide open" stood unchallenged.
The reason being there were 3 witnesses looking out wide open windows on
the 5th floor who heard the gunshots coming from the floor above them.
Do the math, that would be the 6th floor.
The math here is "5=5". As you say, the wide open windows were indeed on
the 5th floor. The two witnesses (Edwards & Fischer) were watching
someone on the 5th floor, in a wide open window.
So 3 black employees on the 5th floor shot the President?
Edwards and Fischer saw a white man at a wide open window, apparently on
the fifth floor, before the shooting. I'm going with the furthest-east
half-window, supposedly Norman's, since he did not claim it until 4 days
after the assassination. ("Vacancy") And the Dillard photos in which he
figured were apparently not published for at least *weeks* afterwards.
Plenty of time to whip up stories and touch up photos.... (Prof. Marsh
here, yes, would call me an alterationist. But he seems to be one, too--I
think he has said the DPD-radio dictabelts were phonied up....)

dcw
claviger
2017-08-29 00:29:49 UTC
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Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
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Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
LNers in denial!
CTs groping for anything to discredit Brennan.
He discredited himself.
How so? Several witnesses saw a rifle in the 6th floor window.
Debatable.
What is debatable? Six witness gave statements they saw a rifle in the
6th floor window. They were interviewed by police and signed official
written statements as witnesses.
Post by donald willis
Let's take one of those witnesses. Bob Edwards originally said that he saw
the suspect at a wide open window on the 5th floor. The FBI weaned him
off "5th floor". But the "wide open" stood unchallenged.
The reason being there were 3 witnesses looking out wide open windows on
the 5th floor who heard the gunshots coming from the floor above them.
Do the math, that would be the 6th floor.
The math here is "5=5". As you say, the wide open windows were indeed on
the 5th floor. The two witnesses (Edwards & Fischer) were watching
someone on the 5th floor, in a wide open window.
So 3 black employees on the 5th floor shot the President?
Edwards and Fischer saw a white man at a wide open window, apparently on
the fifth floor, before the shooting. I'm going with the furthest-east
half-window, supposedly Norman's, since he did not claim it until 4 days
after the assassination. ("Vacancy") And the Dillard photos in which he
figured were apparently not published for at least *weeks* afterwards.
Plenty of time to whip up stories and touch up photos.... (Prof. Marsh
here, yes, would call me an alterationist. But he seems to be one, too--I
think he has said the DPD-radio dictabelts were phonied up....)
dcw
The 3 black employees on the 5th floor never mentioned any white employees
being there during the parade. Are they lying?
claviger
2017-08-29 19:01:27 UTC
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Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
LNers in denial!
CTs groping for anything to discredit Brennan.
He discredited himself.
How so? Several witnesses saw a rifle in the 6th floor window.
Debatable.
What is debatable? Six witness gave statements they saw a rifle in the
6th floor window. They were interviewed by police and signed official
written statements as witnesses.
Post by donald willis
Let's take one of those witnesses. Bob Edwards originally said that he saw
the suspect at a wide open window on the 5th floor. The FBI weaned him
off "5th floor". But the "wide open" stood unchallenged.
The reason being there were 3 witnesses looking out wide open windows on
the 5th floor who heard the gunshots coming from the floor above them.
Do the math, that would be the 6th floor.
The math here is "5=5". As you say, the wide open windows were indeed on
the 5th floor. The two witnesses (Edwards & Fischer) were watching
someone on the 5th floor, in a wide open window.
So 3 black employees on the 5th floor shot the President?
Edwards and Fischer saw a white man at a wide open window, apparently on
the fifth floor, before the shooting. I'm going with the furthest-east
half-window, supposedly Norman's, since he did not claim it until 4 days
after the assassination. ("Vacancy") And the Dillard photos in which he
figured were apparently not published for at least *weeks* afterwards.
Plenty of time to whip up stories and touch up photos.... (Prof. Marsh
here, yes, would call me an alterationist. But he seems to be one, too--I
think he has said the DPD-radio dictabelts were phonied up....)
dcw
The 3 black employees on the 5th floor never mentioned any white employees
being there during the parade. Are they lying?
A class of 6th graders could figure this out. One witness said the "top
floor", a few said the 6th floor, and a few said the 5th floor. Were any
windows open on the far east side of the TSBD during the parade?
According to photos none on the 7th floor. One east window on the 6th
floor was half open. Just below 3 windows on the 5th floor were fully
open.

If no window was open on the 7th floor and 3 people in open windows on the
5th floor had no rifles, then by process of elimination it must be the
half open window on the 6th floor where the sniper fired his rifle at the
Presidential Limousine. This is why Sherlock Holmes used to say
"Elementary, Doctor Watson!", because a class of Elementary School
students could solve this case.

As a matter of fact a rifle and empty shells were found on the 6th floor.
That rifle belonged to a white employee of the TSBD who worked on the 5th
and 6th floor that morning. The owner of this rifle left work without
permission and went home. He didn't stay but a few minutes, put on a
jacket and grabbed a pistol, then went for a walk through the
neighborhood. A DPD patrol officer tried to question him and the owner of
the rifle on the 6th floor shot him dead. This case is not so complicated
as you try to make it.
donald willis
2017-08-29 19:06:37 UTC
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Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
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Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
LNers in denial!
CTs groping for anything to discredit Brennan.
He discredited himself.
How so? Several witnesses saw a rifle in the 6th floor window.
Debatable.
What is debatable? Six witness gave statements they saw a rifle in the
6th floor window. They were interviewed by police and signed official
written statements as witnesses.
Post by donald willis
Let's take one of those witnesses. Bob Edwards originally said that he saw
the suspect at a wide open window on the 5th floor. The FBI weaned him
off "5th floor". But the "wide open" stood unchallenged.
The reason being there were 3 witnesses looking out wide open windows on
the 5th floor who heard the gunshots coming from the floor above them.
Do the math, that would be the 6th floor.
The math here is "5=5". As you say, the wide open windows were indeed on
the 5th floor. The two witnesses (Edwards & Fischer) were watching
someone on the 5th floor, in a wide open window.
So 3 black employees on the 5th floor shot the President?
Edwards and Fischer saw a white man at a wide open window, apparently on
the fifth floor, before the shooting. I'm going with the furthest-east
half-window, supposedly Norman's, since he did not claim it until 4 days
after the assassination. ("Vacancy") And the Dillard photos in which he
figured were apparently not published for at least *weeks* afterwards.
Plenty of time to whip up stories and touch up photos.... (Prof. Marsh
here, yes, would call me an alterationist. But he seems to be one, too--I
think he has said the DPD-radio dictabelts were phonied up....)
dcw
The 3 black employees on the 5th floor never mentioned any white employees
being there during the parade. Are they lying?
What 3 black employees? James Jarman, in his first public statement after
the assassination, said, "We were all out on the street at about 12
o'clock noon. To my knowledge Lee Oswald was not with us while we were
watching the parade." (11/23/63 affidavit) What "5th floor"?

Jarman was out on the street "during the parade". Was he lying?
claviger
2017-08-30 09:40:59 UTC
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Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
LNers in denial!
CTs groping for anything to discredit Brennan.
He discredited himself.
How so? Several witnesses saw a rifle in the 6th floor window.
Debatable.
What is debatable? Six witness gave statements they saw a rifle in the
6th floor window. They were interviewed by police and signed official
written statements as witnesses.
Post by donald willis
Let's take one of those witnesses. Bob Edwards originally said that he saw
the suspect at a wide open window on the 5th floor. The FBI weaned him
off "5th floor". But the "wide open" stood unchallenged.
The reason being there were 3 witnesses looking out wide open windows on
the 5th floor who heard the gunshots coming from the floor above them.
Do the math, that would be the 6th floor.
The math here is "5=5". As you say, the wide open windows were indeed on
the 5th floor. The two witnesses (Edwards & Fischer) were watching
someone on the 5th floor, in a wide open window.
So 3 black employees on the 5th floor shot the President?
Edwards and Fischer saw a white man at a wide open window, apparently on
the fifth floor, before the shooting. I'm going with the furthest-east
half-window, supposedly Norman's, since he did not claim it until 4 days
after the assassination. ("Vacancy") And the Dillard photos in which he
figured were apparently not published for at least *weeks* afterwards.
Plenty of time to whip up stories and touch up photos.... (Prof. Marsh
here, yes, would call me an alterationist. But he seems to be one, too--I
think he has said the DPD-radio dictabelts were phonied up....)
dcw
The 3 black employees on the 5th floor never mentioned any white employees
being there during the parade. Are they lying?
What 3 black employees? James Jarman, in his first public statement after
the assassination, said, "We were all out on the street at about 12
o'clock noon. To my knowledge Lee Oswald was not with us while we were
watching the parade." (11/23/63 affidavit) What "5th floor"?
Jarman was out on the street "during the parade". Was he lying?
All 3 black employees were on the street during the parade? Then who are
the 3 black guys on the 5th floor? Are you claiming they was a hit team
of 3 black assassins? If so why did the 3 black employees lie about being
on the 5th floor? Now we have a conspiracy of 6 black members of the hit
team, 3 shooters plus 3 false witnesses. You make it sounds like the
Black Panthers assassinated President Kennedy.
claviger
2017-08-30 14:31:35 UTC
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Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
LNers in denial!
CTs groping for anything to discredit Brennan.
He discredited himself.
How so? Several witnesses saw a rifle in the 6th floor window.
Debatable.
What is debatable? Six witness gave statements they saw a rifle in the
6th floor window. They were interviewed by police and signed official
written statements as witnesses.
Post by donald willis
Let's take one of those witnesses. Bob Edwards originally said that he saw
the suspect at a wide open window on the 5th floor. The FBI weaned him
off "5th floor". But the "wide open" stood unchallenged.
The reason being there were 3 witnesses looking out wide open windows on
the 5th floor who heard the gunshots coming from the floor above them.
Do the math, that would be the 6th floor.
The math here is "5=5". As you say, the wide open windows were indeed on
the 5th floor. The two witnesses (Edwards & Fischer) were watching
someone on the 5th floor, in a wide open window.
So 3 black employees on the 5th floor shot the President?
Edwards and Fischer saw a white man at a wide open window, apparently on
the fifth floor, before the shooting. I'm going with the furthest-east
half-window, supposedly Norman's, since he did not claim it until 4 days
after the assassination. ("Vacancy") And the Dillard photos in which he
figured were apparently not published for at least *weeks* afterwards.
Plenty of time to whip up stories and touch up photos.... (Prof. Marsh
here, yes, would call me an alterationist. But he seems to be one, too--I
think he has said the DPD-radio dictabelts were phonied up....)
dcw
The 3 black employees on the 5th floor never mentioned any white employees
being there during the parade. Are they lying?
What 3 black employees? James Jarman, in his first public statement after
the assassination, said, "We were all out on the street at about 12
o'clock noon. To my knowledge Lee Oswald was not with us while we were
watching the parade." (11/23/63 affidavit) What "5th floor"?
Jarman was out on the street "during the parade". Was he lying?
Jarman, James Earl Jr.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/jarman.htm

claviger
2017-08-29 18:59:09 UTC
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Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
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Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
LNers in denial!
CTs groping for anything to discredit Brennan.
He discredited himself.
How so? Several witnesses saw a rifle in the 6th floor window.
Debatable.
What is debatable? Six witness gave statements they saw a rifle in the
6th floor window. They were interviewed by police and signed official
written statements as witnesses.
Post by donald willis
Let's take one of those witnesses. Bob Edwards originally said that he saw
the suspect at a wide open window on the 5th floor. The FBI weaned him
off "5th floor". But the "wide open" stood unchallenged.
The reason being there were 3 witnesses looking out wide open windows on
the 5th floor who heard the gunshots coming from the floor above them.
Do the math, that would be the 6th floor.
The math here is "5=5". As you say, the wide open windows were indeed on
the 5th floor. The two witnesses (Edwards & Fischer) were watching
someone on the 5th floor, in a wide open window.
So 3 black employees on the 5th floor shot the President?
Edwards and Fischer saw a white man at a wide open window, apparently on
the fifth floor, before the shooting.
Wonder why the 3 black employees didn't mention him to police? You
would think he would be rather obvious as the only white guy up there
shooting a rifle out the 5th floor window. If nothing else the sound of
gunfire would get their attention!
Post by donald willis
I'm going with the furthest-east half-window, supposedly Norman's,
since he did not claim it until 4 days after the assassination.
So was the sniper Norman, an unknown black guy, or out of place
white guy who was not LHO, blasting away at the motorcade?
Post by donald willis
("Vacancy")
A rental vacancy or mental vacancy?
Post by donald willis
And the Dillard photos in which he figured were apparently not published
for at least *weeks* afterwards.
This is relevant how?
Post by donald willis
Plenty of time to whip up stories and touch up photos.... (Prof. Marsh
here, yes, would call me an alterationist. But he seems to be one, too--I
think he has said the DPD-radio dictabelts were phonied up....)
dcw
Why the need to whip up stories? I thought this was a meticulous preplanned
conspiracy!
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-30 09:43:50 UTC
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Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
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Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
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Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
LNers in denial!
CTs groping for anything to discredit Brennan.
He discredited himself.
How so? Several witnesses saw a rifle in the 6th floor window.
Debatable.
What is debatable? Six witness gave statements they saw a rifle in the
6th floor window. They were interviewed by police and signed official
written statements as witnesses.
Post by donald willis
Let's take one of those witnesses. Bob Edwards originally said that he saw
the suspect at a wide open window on the 5th floor. The FBI weaned him
off "5th floor". But the "wide open" stood unchallenged.
The reason being there were 3 witnesses looking out wide open windows on
the 5th floor who heard the gunshots coming from the floor above them.
Do the math, that would be the 6th floor.
The math here is "5=5". As you say, the wide open windows were indeed on
the 5th floor. The two witnesses (Edwards & Fischer) were watching
someone on the 5th floor, in a wide open window.
So 3 black employees on the 5th floor shot the President?
Edwards and Fischer saw a white man at a wide open window, apparently on
the fifth floor, before the shooting.
Wonder why the 3 black employees didn't mention him to police? You
would think he would be rather obvious as the only white guy up there
shooting a rifle out the 5th floor window. If nothing else the sound of
gunfire would get their attention!
Post by donald willis
I'm going with the furthest-east half-window, supposedly Norman's,
since he did not claim it until 4 days after the assassination.
So was the sniper Norman, an unknown black guy, or out of place
white guy who was not LHO, blasting away at the motorcade?
Post by donald willis
("Vacancy")
A rental vacancy or mental vacancy?
Post by donald willis
And the Dillard photos in which he figured were apparently not published
for at least *weeks* afterwards.
This is relevant how?
Post by donald willis
Plenty of time to whip up stories and touch up photos.... (Prof. Marsh
here, yes, would call me an alterationist. But he seems to be one, too--I
think he has said the DPD-radio dictabelts were phonied up....)
dcw
Why the need to whip up stories? I thought this was a meticulous preplanned
conspiracy!
Oh, you mean like the Castro plots? Typical CIA screw-up.
donald willis
2017-08-26 12:07:42 UTC
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Post by claviger
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Sure, it was Brennan who provided height & weight estimates, though he
could hardly, realistically, have done so.
This is old news. Brennan's description was not perfect. Witnesses
seldom get 100% right. He was probably asked the weight by the police
officer and guessed wrong. Brennan estimated height was 5'10". LHO was
5"9" tall. DPD Baker got it right with LHO standing right in front of
Or was he? [cue Mark Snow music] (obscure reference to The X-Files) If you
try hard enough you could find come crazy theories about a second Oswald
or a KGB replacement Oswald who was not 5'9" tall, but actually 5'10"
tall. And if you want to be a really hip apologist you could claim that
Oswald grew an inch taller from when the Marines FALSELY measured his
height to when he was in the TSBD. Or maybe he was standing on bricks or
something. Try harder.
As a 17 year old teenager when he joined the Marines it is possible LHO
did grow another inch taller after his boot camp photo was taken.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Just never admit that Brennan never actually saw Oswald in the window.
He saw LHO in the 6th floor window in two different circumstances.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
him, so a very good guess by Brennan down on the street.
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who volunteered it was a Winchester rifle, though he
admitted he knew nothing about guns.
Cite please.
WC. Interviews. Google.
Please provide a cite where Brennan called it a Winchester.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who didn't have a clothing description, as per Sawyer's
APB. Though he provides one in his original affidavit.
So maybe it was Sawyer's mistake.
I don't think Sawyer just made it up. Someone said it.
Sawyer was an oddball who was so confused at the scene of the crime even
the Dispatcher had to correct his mistakes.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And Brennan did not know that the shooter was in the depository, as per
Sawyer's 12:46 transmission.
Obviously Sawyer's mistake
Cops make mistakes all the time. Forgive them and move on.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Though photos and his affidavit seem to contradict Sawyer.
Yes indeed.
Post by donald willis
Sawyer & Brennan--a perfect match!
Opposites attract.
Post by donald willis
LNers in denial!
CTs groping for anything to discredit Brennan.
He discredited himself.
How so? Several witnesses saw a rifle in the 6th floor window.
Debatable.
What is debatable? Six witness gave statements they saw a rifle in the
6th floor window. They were interviewed by police and signed official
written statements as witnesses.
Post by donald willis
Let's take one of those witnesses. Bob Edwards originally said that he saw
the suspect at a wide open window on the 5th floor. The FBI weaned him
off "5th floor". But the "wide open" stood unchallenged.
The reason being there were 3 witnesses looking out wide open windows on
the 5th floor who heard the gunshots coming from the floor above them.
Do the math, that would be the 6th floor.
Post by donald willis
In fact, there are some wide open windows on the 5th floor, the floor
which Edwards originally said the suspect was on. The guy with him,
Ronald Fischer, testified that he could not have seen so much of the
suspect unless the window was open all the way....
So your theory is the three guys on the 5th floor were the real hit team?
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
The rifle belonged to LHO. The empty shells matched that rifle. How did
the rifle and shells get to the 6th floor?
Captain Fritz picked up the shells before they could be photographed. We
can't be sure WHERE they were found....
Fritz picked up one shell and put it back where he found it. In 1963 it
would be proper procedure since the Police had no idea what type of rifle
was used for this ambush. Examining an empty shell would indicate the
caliber of rifle used by the sniper. Later in the search a rifle was
discovered between boxes and the shells found under the window matched the
ammo in the clip.
Post by donald willis
None of the work crew saw a rifle on the
None of the crew who worked on the 6th floor project to replace the oil
stained wood reported seeing a rifle that morning or that LHO had told
them his rifle was for sale, the reason why he brought it to work that
day. If LHO wanted to sell it he would have notified these guys he would
bring it to work so they could take a look at it. LHO carried a paper bag
to work that morning with something heavy inside but mentioned nothing
about a rifle to this floor crew or anyone else, so the gun-for-sale
theory is bogus.
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
6th floor that morning and LHO didn't mention it was for sale. LHO was
seen in the lunchroom then left the building without notifying anyone.
For some reason this delinquent employee went home and rearmed himself
with a pistol then shot a police officer several times as he lay wounded
on the street. Based on a complete search of the building LHO was the
only employee to bring a rifle to work that day. Circumstantial evidence
points to LHO as the sniper in the 6th floor window. Brennan gave a
description almost identical to the person DPD Baker confronted in the
lunchroom.
Including a weight estimate. Try estimating the respective weights of
Williams & Norman in their windows. Right!--you wouldn't even try based
on how little you see of them.
Attempting to guess actual weight from the street is a dubious proposition
and Brennan got it wrong. What the DPD officer should have asked: was the
shooter in the 6th floor window skinny, slender, medium, stocky, large?
Those commonly used descriptions would make more sense. Brennan did miss
the correct weight by several pounds, proving he was just a normal guy in
the crowd on the street, not a conspiracy plant.
Post by donald willis
And if Brennan saw more of *his* man, then the guy wasn't trying to hide
what he was doing.
dcw
Exactly, proving LHO was on a suicide mission not expecting to escape the
TSBD. Ultimately he wanted credit for this evil deed.
A lot of pop psychology here. I don't think any psychoanalysis could
explain a suspect who, before 12:30, was actively drawing attention from
witnesses such as Brennan, Fischer, Edwards, & Walther, and, then, during
and just after the shooting, was so shy and retiring, suddenly, that no
one, supposedly, got a photo of him.

He played games
Post by claviger
with the DPD after his arrest as the poor little patsy. Only the most
gullible of the population bought into that scam.
I'd say that the Warren Report was a scam, but I think the Commission was
more scammed than scamming....

dcw
donald willis
2017-08-21 20:23:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
What is said off the record matters even more because they were too afraid
to put it on the record. National Security, you know. Why go off the
record unless it's something they don't want recorded? Your challenges are
whimpy. You should demand that I produce the tapes.
What tapes? Off the record conversations are a standard part of legal
proceedings in court. Judges and Lawyers go off the record for diverse
reasons. This a desperate attempt to salvage your lame argument devoid of
evidence.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Mr. BELIN - Now, taking you down to the Dallas Police Station, I believe
you said you talked to Captain Fritz. And then what happened?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I was just more or less introduced to him in Mr.
Sorrels' room, and they told me they were going to conduct a lineup and
wanted me to view it, which I did.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember how many people were in the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - No; I don't. A possibility seven more or less one.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Did you see anyone in the lineup you recognized?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - And what did you say?
Mr. BRENNAN - I told Mr. Sorrels and Captain Fritz at that time that
Oswald--or the man in the lineup that I identified looking more like a
closest resemblance to the man in the window than anyone in the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Were the other people in the lineup, do you remember--were
they all white, or were there some Negroes in there, or what?
Mr. BRENNAN - I do not remember.
Mr. BELIN - As I understand your testimony, then, you said that you told
him that this particular person looked the most like the man you saw on
the sixth floor of the building there.
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - In the meantime, had you seen any pictures of Lee Harvey
Oswald on television or in the newspapers?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, on television.
Mr. BELIN - About when was that, do you believe?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe I reached home quarter to three or something of
that, 15 minutes either way, and I saw his picture twice on television
before I went down to the police station for the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Now, is there anything else you told the officers at the
time of the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I told them I could not make a positive identification.
Mr. BELIN - When you told them that, did you ever later tell any officer
or investigating person anything different?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - When did that happen?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe some days later--I don't recall exactly--and I
believe the Secret Service man identified hisself as being Williams, I
believe, from Houston. I won't swear to that-whether his name was
Williams or not.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BRENNAN - And he could have been an FBI. As far as I remember, it
could have been FBI instead of Secret Service.
But I believe it was a Secret Service man from Houston.
And I--
Mr. BELIN - What did he say to you and what did you say to him?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, he asked me he said, "You said you couldn't make a
positive identification."
He said, "Did you do that for security reasons personally, or couldn't you?"
And I told him I could with all honesty, but I did it more or less for
security reasons--my family and myself.
Mr. BELIN - What do you mean by security reasons for your family and
yourself?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe at that time, and I still believe it was a
Communist activity, and I felt like there hadn't been more than one
eyewitness, and if it got to be a known fact that I was an eyewitness,
my family or I, either one, might not be safe.
Mr. BELIN - Well, if you wouldn't have identified him, might he not have
been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - Beg pardon?
Mr. BELIN - If you would not have identified that man positively, might
he not have been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - No. That had a great contributing factor--greater
contributing factor than my personal reasons was that I already knew
they had the man for murder, and I knew he would not be released.
Mr. BELIN - The murder of whom?
Mr. BRENNAN - Of Officer Tippit.
Mr. BELIN - Well, what happened in between to change your mind that you
later decided to come forth and tell them you could identify him?
Mr. BRENNAN - After Oswald was killed, I was relieved quite a bit that
as far as pressure on myself of somebody not wanting me to identify
anybody, there was no longer that immediate danger.
Mr. BELIN - What is the fact as to whether or not your having seen
Oswald on television would have affected your identification of him one
way or the other?
Mr. BRENNAN - That is something I do not know.
Mr. BELIN - Mr. Brennan, could you tell us now whether you can or cannot
positively identify the man you saw on the sixth floor window as the
same man that you saw in the police station?
Mr. BRENNAN - I could at that time I could, with all sincerity, identify
him as being the same man.
Thank you for proving Brennan had reasons for giving the ambiguous ID of
LHO at this lineup, something we already knew. What you fail to mention
Of course he did, because he was afraid for his family.
Post by claviger
is Brennan saw the man in the 6th floor window twice. Before the parade
Brennan noticed him gazing down the street. When the motorcade was
passing by Brennan heard loud shots and looked up at the 6th floor window
to see the same man with a rifle. So Brennan had two reasons to notice
Yes, after all the shots had been fired, he looked up.
And he saw a man. WOW, I guess that wraps up the case. So we know the
shooter wasn's a woman!
Another amateurish scam on your part. He saw the same guy twice in the
same window.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
the man in the window and immediately gave a description to the police,
who broadcast the APB 15 minutes after shots were fired. This APB closely
Again for the hundreth time, you have absolutely no proof that it was
Brennan's description that the police used. You ASSuME that because it
fits your story, but you can't prove it so stop stating it as a fact. Try
to honest for once in your life.
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
Sure, it was Brennan who provided height & weight estimates, though he
could hardly, realistically, have done so.
This is old news.
You mean like the Warren Report?

Brennan's description was not perfect. Witnesses
Post by claviger
seldom get 100% right. He was probably asked the weight by the police
officer
Very very unlikely, considering Brennan's location--on the ground, across
the street, several stories below! Of course, it's possible if, as Prof.
Marsh insists, the Dallas police were simply hapless morons, or if they
had a list of questions which they had to ask each witness, no matter how
pointless in a particular case.


and guessed wrong. Brennan estimated height was 5'10". LHO was
Post by claviger
5"9" tall. DPD Baker got it right with LHO standing right in front of
him, so a very good guess by Brennan down on the street.
Brennan didn't estimate height. LNers in Weird Acceptance!
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who volunteered it was a Winchester rifle, though he
admitted he knew nothing about guns.
Cite please.
No point if you can't admit the simplest absurdities with the APB....
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
It was Brennan who didn't have a clothing description, as per Sawyer's
APB. Though he provides one in his original affidavit.
So maybe it was Sawyer's mistake.
He apparently read the APB that was given to him--given before 12:30pm.
No other explanation possible, or at least probable, given the lacunae....
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And Brennan did not know that the shooter was in the depository, as per
Sawyer's 12:46 transmission.
Obviously Sawyer's mistake.
Yes, in reading what was most probably given to him before 12:30pm....
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Though photos and his affidavit seem to contradict Sawyer.
Yes indeed.
Post by donald willis
Sawyer & Brennan--a perfect match!
Opposites attract.
Post by donald willis
LNers in denial!
CTs groping for anything to discredit Brennan.
My intent is to discredit the APB, into which Brennan was awkwardly
funneled.

dcw
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-19 15:08:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
What is said off the record matters even more because they were too afraid
to put it on the record. National Security, you know. Why go off the
record unless it's something they don't want recorded? Your challenges are
whimpy. You should demand that I produce the tapes.
What tapes? Off the record conversations are a standard part of legal
proceedings in court. Judges and Lawyers go off the record for diverse
reasons. This a desperate attempt to salvage your lame argument devoid of
evidence.
That's my point. There are no tapes. There is something, but you don't
know what it is. And in the case of WC testimony we found it and released
it to prove how the WC censored and manipulated testimony.
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Mr. BELIN - Now, taking you down to the Dallas Police Station, I believe
you said you talked to Captain Fritz. And then what happened?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I was just more or less introduced to him in Mr.
Sorrels' room, and they told me they were going to conduct a lineup and
wanted me to view it, which I did.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember how many people were in the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - No; I don't. A possibility seven more or less one.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Did you see anyone in the lineup you recognized?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - And what did you say?
Mr. BRENNAN - I told Mr. Sorrels and Captain Fritz at that time that
Oswald--or the man in the lineup that I identified looking more like a
closest resemblance to the man in the window than anyone in the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Were the other people in the lineup, do you remember--were
they all white, or were there some Negroes in there, or what?
Mr. BRENNAN - I do not remember.
Mr. BELIN - As I understand your testimony, then, you said that you told
him that this particular person looked the most like the man you saw on
the sixth floor of the building there.
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - In the meantime, had you seen any pictures of Lee Harvey
Oswald on television or in the newspapers?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, on television.
Mr. BELIN - About when was that, do you believe?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe I reached home quarter to three or something of
that, 15 minutes either way, and I saw his picture twice on television
before I went down to the police station for the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Now, is there anything else you told the officers at the
time of the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I told them I could not make a positive identification.
Mr. BELIN - When you told them that, did you ever later tell any officer
or investigating person anything different?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - When did that happen?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe some days later--I don't recall exactly--and I
believe the Secret Service man identified hisself as being Williams, I
believe, from Houston. I won't swear to that-whether his name was
Williams or not.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BRENNAN - And he could have been an FBI. As far as I remember, it
could have been FBI instead of Secret Service.
But I believe it was a Secret Service man from Houston.
And I--
Mr. BELIN - What did he say to you and what did you say to him?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, he asked me he said, "You said you couldn't make a
positive identification."
He said, "Did you do that for security reasons personally, or couldn't you?"
And I told him I could with all honesty, but I did it more or less for
security reasons--my family and myself.
Mr. BELIN - What do you mean by security reasons for your family and
yourself?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe at that time, and I still believe it was a
Communist activity, and I felt like there hadn't been more than one
eyewitness, and if it got to be a known fact that I was an eyewitness,
my family or I, either one, might not be safe.
Mr. BELIN - Well, if you wouldn't have identified him, might he not have
been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - Beg pardon?
Mr. BELIN - If you would not have identified that man positively, might
he not have been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - No. That had a great contributing factor--greater
contributing factor than my personal reasons was that I already knew
they had the man for murder, and I knew he would not be released.
Mr. BELIN - The murder of whom?
Mr. BRENNAN - Of Officer Tippit.
Mr. BELIN - Well, what happened in between to change your mind that you
later decided to come forth and tell them you could identify him?
Mr. BRENNAN - After Oswald was killed, I was relieved quite a bit that
as far as pressure on myself of somebody not wanting me to identify
anybody, there was no longer that immediate danger.
Mr. BELIN - What is the fact as to whether or not your having seen
Oswald on television would have affected your identification of him one
way or the other?
Mr. BRENNAN - That is something I do not know.
Mr. BELIN - Mr. Brennan, could you tell us now whether you can or cannot
positively identify the man you saw on the sixth floor window as the
same man that you saw in the police station?
Mr. BRENNAN - I could at that time I could, with all sincerity, identify
him as being the same man.
Thank you for proving Brennan had reasons for giving the ambiguous ID of
LHO at this lineup, something we already knew. What you fail to mention
Of course he did, because he was afraid for his family.
Post by claviger
is Brennan saw the man in the 6th floor window twice. Before the parade
Brennan noticed him gazing down the street. When the motorcade was
passing by Brennan heard loud shots and looked up at the 6th floor window
to see the same man with a rifle. So Brennan had two reasons to notice
Yes, after all the shots had been fired, he looked up.
And he saw a man. WOW, I guess that wraps up the case. So we know the
shooter wasn's a woman!
Another amateurish scam on your part. He saw the same guy twice in the
same window.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
the man in the window and immediately gave a description to the police,
who broadcast the APB 15 minutes after shots were fired. This APB closely
Again for the hundreth time, you have absolutely no proof that it was
Brennan's description that the police used. You ASSuME that because it
fits your story, but you can't prove it so stop stating it as a fact. Try
to honest for once in your life.
If not Brennan then who? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
We can't prove who it was. That is my point. So don't claim it was
Brennan. Argumentum ad Ignorantum.
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
matched the employee DPD Baker confronted in the lunchroom. No way can
Great, then let Baker put out the APB after he had just let Oswald go.
Baker's description was almost identical to Brennan but even more
accurate. So let's assume it was Baker. Now your argument curls around
and bites you on the nose.
No, silly. Baker's eyesight was not that good to be able to see the
shooter 300 feet away.
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
you make a convincing alibi for LHO being innocent. Sympathy with his
political loyalty of Socialism seems to be your primary motivation for
WTF are you talking about? Are you trying to resurrect McCarthyism?
Your are the Leftwing version of McCarthy with your addiction to the Nazi
slander you hurl with reckless abandon.
Ignoring your poor grammar, it is a Fascist argument to say that leftist
are just as bad as the Nazis for complaining about how bad the Nazis are.
It's false equivalence. Something that only a moron like Trump would do.
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
I am not a socialist. I don't have any sympathy with Oswald's beliefs.
Just try to argue honestly for a change.
Why don't you man up and do the same?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
trying to blame this horrible crime on anyone but LHO. Nor do you have
I have said many times that I am open to Oswald being involved somehow.
No way for him to not be involved. As a loner and malcontent he would not
share the spotlight as the bold self motivated assassin who made the kill
on the Number One enemy of Cuban communism.
That's MY argument for why I doubt that he was a shooter.
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
any interest in Castro as a suspect who had many reasons to want President
Kennedy assassinated. Apparently political bias prevents you from taking
an objective approach to this case.
I lost interest in Castro when I uncovered the hoaxes. If you want to be
a conspiracy nut that blames it on Castro, find with me.
A German TV producer did exactly that.
Not exactly. Disinformation.
Jason Burke
2017-08-20 18:20:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
What is said off the record matters even more because they were too afraid
to put it on the record. National Security, you know. Why go off the
record unless it's something they don't want recorded? Your
challenges are
whimpy. You should demand that I produce the tapes.
What tapes?  Off the record conversations are a standard part of legal
proceedings in court.  Judges and Lawyers go off the record for diverse
reasons.  This a desperate attempt to salvage your lame argument
devoid of
evidence.
That's my point. There are no tapes. There is something, but you don't
know what it is. And in the case of WC testimony we found it and
Mouse in your pocket again, Anthony Anthony?
Post by Anthony Marsh
released it to prove how the WC censored and manipulated testimony.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Mr. BELIN - Now, taking you down to the Dallas Police Station, I believe
you said you talked to Captain Fritz. And then what happened?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I was just more or less introduced to him in Mr.
Sorrels' room, and they told me they were going to conduct a lineup and
wanted me to view it, which I did.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember how many people were in the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - No; I don't. A possibility seven more or less one.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Did you see anyone in the lineup you recognized?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - And what did you say?
Mr. BRENNAN - I told Mr. Sorrels and Captain Fritz at that time that
Oswald--or the man in the lineup that I identified looking more like a
closest resemblance to the man in the window than anyone in the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Were the other people in the lineup, do you remember--were
they all white, or were there some Negroes in there, or what?
Mr. BRENNAN - I do not remember.
Mr. BELIN - As I understand your testimony, then, you said that you told
him that this particular person looked the most like the man you saw on
the sixth floor of the building there.
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - In the meantime, had you seen any pictures of Lee Harvey
Oswald on television or in the newspapers?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, on television.
Mr. BELIN - About when was that, do you believe?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe I reached home quarter to three or
something of
that, 15 minutes either way, and I saw his picture twice on television
before I went down to the police station for the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Now, is there anything else you told the officers at the
time of the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I told them I could not make a positive identification.
Mr. BELIN - When you told them that, did you ever later tell any officer
or investigating person anything different?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - When did that happen?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe some days later--I don't recall exactly--and I
believe the Secret Service man identified hisself as being Williams, I
believe, from Houston. I won't swear to that-whether his name was
Williams or not.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BRENNAN - And he could have been an FBI. As far as I remember, it
could have been FBI instead of Secret Service.
But I believe it was a Secret Service man from Houston.
And I--
Mr. BELIN - What did he say to you and what did you say to him?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, he asked me he said, "You said you couldn't make a
positive identification."
He said, "Did you do that for security reasons personally, or couldn't you?"
And I told him I could with all honesty, but I did it more or less for
security reasons--my family and myself.
Mr. BELIN - What do you mean by security reasons for your family and
yourself?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe at that time, and I still believe it was a
Communist activity, and I felt like there hadn't been more than one
eyewitness, and if it got to be a known fact that I was an eyewitness,
my family or I, either one, might not be safe.
Mr. BELIN - Well, if you wouldn't have identified him, might he not have
been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - Beg pardon?
Mr. BELIN - If you would not have identified that man positively, might
he not have been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - No. That had a great contributing factor--greater
contributing factor than my personal reasons was that I already knew
they had the man for murder, and I knew he would not be released.
Mr. BELIN - The murder of whom?
Mr. BRENNAN - Of Officer Tippit.
Mr. BELIN - Well, what happened in between to change your mind that you
later decided to come forth and tell them you could identify him?
Mr. BRENNAN - After Oswald was killed, I was relieved quite a bit that
as far as pressure on myself of somebody not wanting me to identify
anybody, there was no longer that immediate danger.
Mr. BELIN - What is the fact as to whether or not your having seen
Oswald on television would have affected your identification of him one
way or the other?
Mr. BRENNAN - That is something I do not know.
Mr. BELIN - Mr. Brennan, could you tell us now whether you can or cannot
positively identify the man you saw on the sixth floor window as the
same man that you saw in the police station?
Mr. BRENNAN - I could at that time I could, with all sincerity, identify
him as being the same man.
Thank you for proving Brennan had reasons for giving the ambiguous ID of
LHO at this lineup, something we already knew.  What you fail to
mention
Of course he did, because he was afraid for his family.
Post by claviger
is Brennan saw the man in the 6th floor window twice.  Before the
parade
Brennan noticed him gazing down the street.  When the motorcade was
passing by Brennan heard loud shots and looked up at the 6th floor window
to see the same man with a rifle.  So Brennan had two reasons to notice
Yes, after all the shots had been fired, he looked up.
And he saw a man. WOW, I guess that wraps up the case. So we know the
shooter wasn's a woman!
Another amateurish scam on your part.  He saw the same guy twice in the
same window.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
the man in the window and immediately gave a description to the police,
who broadcast the APB 15 minutes after shots were fired.  This APB
closely
Again for the hundreth time, you have absolutely no proof that it was
Brennan's description that the police used. You ASSuME that because it
fits your story, but you can't prove it so stop stating it as a fact. Try
to honest for once in your life.
If not Brennan then who?     + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
We can't prove who it was. That is my point. So don't claim it was
Brennan. Argumentum ad Ignorantum.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
matched the employee DPD Baker confronted in the lunchroom.  No way can
Great, then let Baker put out the APB after he had just let Oswald go.
Baker's description was almost identical to Brennan but even more
accurate.  So let's assume it was Baker.  Now your argument curls around
and bites you on the nose.
No, silly. Baker's eyesight was not that good to be able to see the
shooter 300 feet away.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
you make a convincing alibi for LHO being innocent.  Sympathy with his
political loyalty of Socialism seems to be your primary motivation for
WTF are you talking about? Are you trying to resurrect McCarthyism?
Your are the Leftwing version of McCarthy with your addiction to the Nazi
slander you hurl with reckless abandon.
Ignoring your poor grammar, it is a Fascist argument to say that leftist
are just as bad as the Nazis for complaining about how bad the Nazis
are. It's false equivalence. Something that only a moron like Trump
would do.
Post by Anthony Marsh
I am not a socialist. I don't have any sympathy with Oswald's beliefs.
Just try to argue honestly for a change.
Why don't you man up and do the same?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
trying to blame this horrible crime on anyone but LHO.  Nor do you have
I have said many times that I am open to Oswald being involved somehow.
No way for him to not be involved.  As a loner and malcontent he would
not
share the spotlight as the bold self motivated assassin who made the kill
on the Number One enemy of Cuban communism.
That's MY argument for why I doubt that he was a shooter.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
any interest in Castro as a suspect who had many reasons to want President
Kennedy assassinated.  Apparently political bias prevents you from
taking
an objective approach to this case.
I lost interest in Castro when I uncovered the hoaxes. If you want to be
a conspiracy nut that blames it on Castro, find with me.
A German TV producer did exactly that.
Not exactly. Disinformation.
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-21 14:35:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jason Burke
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
What is said off the record matters even more because they were too afraid
to put it on the record. National Security, you know. Why go off the
record unless it's something they don't want recorded? Your
challenges are
whimpy. You should demand that I produce the tapes.
What tapes??? Off the record conversations are a standard part of legal
proceedings in court.?? Judges and Lawyers go off the record for diverse
reasons.?? This a desperate attempt to salvage your lame argument
devoid of
evidence.
That's my point. There are no tapes. There is something, but you don't
know what it is. And in the case of WC testimony we found it and
Mouse in your pocket again, Anthony Anthony?
It's so hard to debate this case with WC defenders because they know
nothing about the WC. Google Jackie's testimony. Google WC Executive
Session January 22,1964 transcript

Even McAdams knows about it.
Post by Jason Burke
Post by Anthony Marsh
released it to prove how the WC censored and manipulated testimony.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Mr. BELIN - Now, taking you down to the Dallas Police Station, I believe
you said you talked to Captain Fritz. And then what happened?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I was just more or less introduced to him in Mr.
Sorrels' room, and they told me they were going to conduct a lineup and
wanted me to view it, which I did.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember how many people were in the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - No; I don't. A possibility seven more or less one.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Did you see anyone in the lineup you recognized?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - And what did you say?
Mr. BRENNAN - I told Mr. Sorrels and Captain Fritz at that time that
Oswald--or the man in the lineup that I identified looking more like a
closest resemblance to the man in the window than anyone in the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Were the other people in the lineup, do you
remember--were
they all white, or were there some Negroes in there, or what?
Mr. BRENNAN - I do not remember.
Mr. BELIN - As I understand your testimony, then, you said that you told
him that this particular person looked the most like the man you saw on
the sixth floor of the building there.
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - In the meantime, had you seen any pictures of Lee Harvey
Oswald on television or in the newspapers?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes, on television.
Mr. BELIN - About when was that, do you believe?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe I reached home quarter to three or something of
that, 15 minutes either way, and I saw his picture twice on television
before I went down to the police station for the lineup.
Mr. BELIN - Now, is there anything else you told the officers at the
time of the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I told them I could not make a positive identification.
Mr. BELIN - When you told them that, did you ever later tell any officer
or investigating person anything different?
Mr. BRENNAN - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - When did that happen?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe some days later--I don't recall
exactly--and I
believe the Secret Service man identified hisself as being Williams, I
believe, from Houston. I won't swear to that-whether his name was
Williams or not.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BRENNAN - And he could have been an FBI. As far as I remember, it
could have been FBI instead of Secret Service.
But I believe it was a Secret Service man from Houston.
And I--
Mr. BELIN - What did he say to you and what did you say to him?
Mr. BRENNAN - Well, he asked me he said, "You said you couldn't make a
positive identification."
He said, "Did you do that for security reasons personally, or couldn't you?"
And I told him I could with all honesty, but I did it more or less for
security reasons--my family and myself.
Mr. BELIN - What do you mean by security reasons for your family and
yourself?
Mr. BRENNAN - I believe at that time, and I still believe it was a
Communist activity, and I felt like there hadn't been more than one
eyewitness, and if it got to be a known fact that I was an eyewitness,
my family or I, either one, might not be safe.
Mr. BELIN - Well, if you wouldn't have identified him, might he not have
been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - Beg pardon?
Mr. BELIN - If you would not have identified that man positively, might
he not have been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN - No. That had a great contributing factor--greater
contributing factor than my personal reasons was that I already knew
they had the man for murder, and I knew he would not be released.
Mr. BELIN - The murder of whom?
Mr. BRENNAN - Of Officer Tippit.
Mr. BELIN - Well, what happened in between to change your mind that you
later decided to come forth and tell them you could identify him?
Mr. BRENNAN - After Oswald was killed, I was relieved quite a bit that
as far as pressure on myself of somebody not wanting me to identify
anybody, there was no longer that immediate danger.
Mr. BELIN - What is the fact as to whether or not your having seen
Oswald on television would have affected your identification of him one
way or the other?
Mr. BRENNAN - That is something I do not know.
Mr. BELIN - Mr. Brennan, could you tell us now whether you can or cannot
positively identify the man you saw on the sixth floor window as the
same man that you saw in the police station?
Mr. BRENNAN - I could at that time I could, with all sincerity, identify
him as being the same man.
Thank you for proving Brennan had reasons for giving the ambiguous ID of
LHO at this lineup, something we already knew.?? What you fail to
mention
Of course he did, because he was afraid for his family.
Post by claviger
is Brennan saw the man in the 6th floor window twice.?? Before the
parade
Brennan noticed him gazing down the street.?? When the motorcade was
passing by Brennan heard loud shots and looked up at the 6th floor window
to see the same man with a rifle.?? So Brennan had two reasons to
notice
Yes, after all the shots had been fired, he looked up.
And he saw a man. WOW, I guess that wraps up the case. So we know the
shooter wasn's a woman!
Another amateurish scam on your part.?? He saw the same guy twice in the
same window.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
the man in the window and immediately gave a description to the police,
who broadcast the APB 15 minutes after shots were fired.?? This APB
closely
Again for the hundreth time, you have absolutely no proof that it was
Brennan's description that the police used. You ASSuME that because it
fits your story, but you can't prove it so stop stating it as a fact. Try
to honest for once in your life.
If not Brennan then who????????? + + + + + + + (crickets) + + + + + + +
We can't prove who it was. That is my point. So don't claim it was
Brennan. Argumentum ad Ignorantum.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
matched the employee DPD Baker confronted in the lunchroom.?? No way
can
Great, then let Baker put out the APB after he had just let Oswald go.
Baker's description was almost identical to Brennan but even more
accurate.?? So let's assume it was Baker.?? Now your argument curls around
and bites you on the nose.
No, silly. Baker's eyesight was not that good to be able to see the
shooter 300 feet away.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
you make a convincing alibi for LHO being innocent.?? Sympathy with his
political loyalty of Socialism seems to be your primary motivation for
WTF are you talking about? Are you trying to resurrect McCarthyism?
Your are the Leftwing version of McCarthy with your addiction to the Nazi
slander you hurl with reckless abandon.
Ignoring your poor grammar, it is a Fascist argument to say that
leftist are just as bad as the Nazis for complaining about how bad the
Nazis are. It's false equivalence. Something that only a moron like
Trump would do.
Post by Anthony Marsh
I am not a socialist. I don't have any sympathy with Oswald's beliefs.
Just try to argue honestly for a change.
Why don't you man up and do the same?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
trying to blame this horrible crime on anyone but LHO.?? Nor do you
have
I have said many times that I am open to Oswald being involved somehow.
No way for him to not be involved.?? As a loner and malcontent he
would not
share the spotlight as the bold self motivated assassin who made the kill
on the Number One enemy of Cuban communism.
That's MY argument for why I doubt that he was a shooter.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
any interest in Castro as a suspect who had many reasons to want President
Kennedy assassinated.?? Apparently political bias prevents you from
taking
an objective approach to this case.
I lost interest in Castro when I uncovered the hoaxes. If you want to be
a conspiracy nut that blames it on Castro, find with me.
A German TV producer did exactly that.
Not exactly. Disinformation.
donald willis
2017-08-10 22:01:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
It makes me appreciate Howard Brennan all the more because he would not be
coached by the police. He didn't like the situation they put him in and
refused to be part of it.
Funny--somebody coached Brennan to testify, finally, that he was the one
who estimated the sniper's height. No other way he was going to even
think of estimating height!

dcw
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-11 16:53:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
It makes me appreciate Howard Brennan all the more because he would not be
coached by the police. He didn't like the situation they put him in and
refused to be part of it.
Funny--somebody coached Brennan to testify, finally, that he was the one
who estimated the sniper's height. No other way he was going to even
think of estimating height!
dcw
How the Hell could he estimate the height when he could only see the
shooter's lower legs?
donald willis
2017-08-12 14:57:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
It makes me appreciate Howard Brennan all the more because he would not be
coached by the police. He didn't like the situation they put him in and
refused to be part of it.
Funny--somebody coached Brennan to testify, finally, that he was the one
who estimated the sniper's height. No other way he was going to even
think of estimating height!
dcw
How the Hell could he estimate the height when he could only see the
shooter's lower legs?
The cover-up did not always respect logic. Brennan--or his coach--tried
to get around the height bit of illogic by having him testify that he saw
the suspect lying on the sill, at one point. That raises other problems,
if true: Why would the suspect seem to be trying to call attention to
himself??

dcw
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-13 03:54:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
It makes me appreciate Howard Brennan all the more because he would not be
coached by the police. He didn't like the situation they put him in and
refused to be part of it.
Funny--somebody coached Brennan to testify, finally, that he was the one
who estimated the sniper's height. No other way he was going to even
think of estimating height!
dcw
How the Hell could he estimate the height when he could only see the
shooter's lower legs?
The cover-up did not always respect logic. Brennan--or his coach--tried
to get around the height bit of illogic by having him testify that he saw
the suspect lying on the sill, at one point. That raises other problems,
if true: Why would the suspect seem to be trying to call attention to
himself??
dcw
Impossible. Brennan said he could see the man from the belt up.

"Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I could see at one time he came to the window and he
sat sideways on the window sill. That was previous to President Kennedy
getting there. And I could see practically his whole body, from his hips
up. But at the time that he was firing the gun, a possibility from his
belt up."

It is physically impossible with the window barely open like that. Try
reconstructing the scene and see if you can see someone from the belt up.

Can you clearly see and identify Dorman who was filming from a window?
donald willis
2017-08-13 22:13:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by donald willis
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
It makes me appreciate Howard Brennan all the more because he would not be
coached by the police. He didn't like the situation they put him in and
refused to be part of it.
Funny--somebody coached Brennan to testify, finally, that he was the one
who estimated the sniper's height. No other way he was going to even
think of estimating height!
dcw
How the Hell could he estimate the height when he could only see the
shooter's lower legs?
The cover-up did not always respect logic. Brennan--or his coach--tried
to get around the height bit of illogic by having him testify that he saw
the suspect lying on the sill, at one point. That raises other problems,
if true: Why would the suspect seem to be trying to call attention to
himself??
dcw
Impossible. Brennan said he could see the man from the belt up.
"Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I could see at one time he came to the window and he
sat sideways on the window sill. That was previous to President Kennedy
getting there. And I could see practically his whole body, from his hips
up. But at the time that he was firing the gun, a possibility from his
belt up."
It is physically impossible with the window barely open like that.
Ah! thank you for supporting me. That is, the corollary would be that it
WOULD be physically possible with the windows WIDE OPEN, as on the fifth
floor! Gracias, amigo!

dcw
claviger
2017-08-14 02:15:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by donald willis
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
It makes me appreciate Howard Brennan all the more because he would not be
coached by the police. He didn't like the situation they put him in and
refused to be part of it.
Funny--somebody coached Brennan to testify, finally, that he was the one
who estimated the sniper's height. No other way he was going to even
think of estimating height!
dcw
How the Hell could he estimate the height when he could only see the
shooter's lower legs?
The cover-up did not always respect logic. Brennan--or his coach--tried
to get around the height bit of illogic by having him testify that he saw
the suspect lying on the sill, at one point. That raises other problems,
if true: Why would the suspect seem to be trying to call attention to
himself??
dcw
Impossible. Brennan said he could see the man from the belt up.
"Mr. BRENNAN - Well, I could see at one time he came to the window and he
sat sideways on the window sill. That was previous to President Kennedy
getting there. And I could see practically his whole body, from his hips
up. But at the time that he was firing the gun, a possibility from his
belt up."
It is physically impossible with the window barely open like that. Try
reconstructing the scene and see if you can see someone from the belt up.
Can you clearly see and identify Dorman who was filming from a window?
Loading Image...
Loading Image...
Loading Image...
Loading Image...
Bud
2017-08-11 01:01:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Roslindale Man Convicted Of Murder Is Freed After 38 Years In Prison03:12
Play
August 08, 2017
Shannon Dooling
Share
A Roslindale man convicted of murder nearly 40 years ago is now free.
Frederick Clay was arrested two weeks after his 16th birthday and has
always maintained his innocence, even when it meant refusing a plea deal
to avoid a life sentence.
On Tuesday, his murder conviction was vacated, and Clay, now 53, walked
out of a Suffolk County courtroom a free man. Clay smiled and clapped as
he entered the lobby.
"Well, it's been a long time coming," he said. "It's been 38 years for
something I didn't do. I'm kind of overwhelmed and sort of nervous."
Clay told reporters that his lawyers and even other inmates continued to
encourage him throughout the appeals process.
"Never give up," he said. "You might lose some issues along the way but
you still got to maintain who you are and don't play politics with the
truth. Stick with the truth."
Clay was arrested in 1979 for the murder of Jeffrey Boyajian, a cab
driver who was shot to death while on the job in Roslindale. Two
eyewitnesses placed Clay at the scene and in 1981 he was convicted of
first-degree murder.
Lisa Kavanaugh, director of the Committee for Public Counsel Services
Innocence Program and Clay's attorney, said the witnesses confirmed her
client's identity only after being hypnotized, an identification method
that new research has largely debunked.
Kavanaugh said that much of the testimony used against Clay would not
stand up today in court.
"There were ... profound problems with both the circumstances with which
the witnesses were able to make their initial observations and also with
the way that the police handled the identification procedures,"
Kavanaugh said.
And the prosecution agrees.
Suffolk County District Attorney Daniel Conley's office re-investigated
Clay's case through its Conviction Integrity Program. Conley said he
doesn't know whether Clay is actually innocent but he does know that Clay
did not receive a fair trial.
"We discussed it, we studied it carefully, and at the end of the day, I
simply was not convinced that justice was done," Conley said.
Justice is all Jerry Boyajian said he and his family ever wanted for his
older brother Jeffrey, the victim of the murder. He said he and his
family are now trying to move on.
"I really feel that justice failed Mr. Clay and in that respect it also
failed my brother, but there was no point in, you know, continuing to
have Mr. Clay in prison," Boyajian said.
Now that he's a free man, Clay said he will focus on learning how to
live in a world he hasn't known for almost 40 years.
"I want to spend some time with my friends and just enjoy the moment,"
he said. "Have lunch, you know, I haven't had no steak and cheese sub in
quite a while so I want to enjoy that and just try to focus on what's
coming next."
He was greeted by applause and shared a hug with his lawyers and
supporters. Next, Clay heads to a transitional program in Lowell.
This segment aired on August 8, 2017.
__________________________________________
BTW, he BLACK.
Whenever a homicide is committed the odds are that a black man committed
the crime.

"Blacks committed 52 percent of homicides between 1980 and 2008."


http://www.dailywire.com/news/7441/7-statistics-you-need-know-about-black-black-crime-aaron-bandler#

In 2008 the government stopped releasing statistics on black crime,
because facts are racist.
Post by Anthony Marsh
So, what does this have to do with the JFK assassination?
The deadheads and the Nazis won't get it.
It is known as an object lesson.
NEVER RELY on witnesses.
Maybe Oswald was guilty, maybe be was innocent, maybe he was framed.
But we'll never know for sure because he didn't get a fair trail.
It can be determined that Oswald killed Kennedy. Just not by everyone.
John McAdams
2017-08-11 01:27:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Roslindale Man Convicted Of Murder Is Freed After 38 Years In Prison03:12
Play
August 08, 2017
Shannon Dooling
Share
A Roslindale man convicted of murder nearly 40 years ago is now free.
Frederick Clay was arrested two weeks after his 16th birthday and has
always maintained his innocence, even when it meant refusing a plea deal
to avoid a life sentence.
On Tuesday, his murder conviction was vacated, and Clay, now 53, walked
out of a Suffolk County courtroom a free man. Clay smiled and clapped as
he entered the lobby.
"Well, it's been a long time coming," he said. "It's been 38 years for
something I didn't do. I'm kind of overwhelmed and sort of nervous."
Clay told reporters that his lawyers and even other inmates continued to
encourage him throughout the appeals process.
"Never give up," he said. "You might lose some issues along the way but
you still got to maintain who you are and don't play politics with the
truth. Stick with the truth."
Clay was arrested in 1979 for the murder of Jeffrey Boyajian, a cab
driver who was shot to death while on the job in Roslindale. Two
eyewitnesses placed Clay at the scene and in 1981 he was convicted of
first-degree murder.
Lisa Kavanaugh, director of the Committee for Public Counsel Services
Innocence Program and Clay's attorney, said the witnesses confirmed her
client's identity only after being hypnotized, an identification method
that new research has largely debunked.
Kavanaugh said that much of the testimony used against Clay would not
stand up today in court.
"There were ... profound problems with both the circumstances with which
the witnesses were able to make their initial observations and also with
the way that the police handled the identification procedures,"
Kavanaugh said.
And the prosecution agrees.
Suffolk County District Attorney Daniel Conley's office re-investigated
Clay's case through its Conviction Integrity Program. Conley said he
doesn't know whether Clay is actually innocent but he does know that Clay
did not receive a fair trial.
"We discussed it, we studied it carefully, and at the end of the day, I
simply was not convinced that justice was done," Conley said.
Justice is all Jerry Boyajian said he and his family ever wanted for his
older brother Jeffrey, the victim of the murder. He said he and his
family are now trying to move on.
"I really feel that justice failed Mr. Clay and in that respect it also
failed my brother, but there was no point in, you know, continuing to
have Mr. Clay in prison," Boyajian said.
Now that he's a free man, Clay said he will focus on learning how to
live in a world he hasn't known for almost 40 years.
"I want to spend some time with my friends and just enjoy the moment,"
he said. "Have lunch, you know, I haven't had no steak and cheese sub in
quite a while so I want to enjoy that and just try to focus on what's
coming next."
He was greeted by applause and shared a hug with his lawyers and
supporters. Next, Clay heads to a transitional program in Lowell.
This segment aired on August 8, 2017.
__________________________________________
BTW, he BLACK.
Whenever a homicide is committed the odds are that a black man committed
the crime.
"Blacks committed 52 percent of homicides between 1980 and 2008."
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7441/7-statistics-you-need-know-about-black-black-crime-aaron-bandler#
In 2008 the government stopped releasing statistics on black crime,
because facts are racist.
Not really. Homicide statistics are still released, and so are the
results of victimization surveys.

You can see some of the data here:

http://mu-warrior.blogspot.com/2015/09/crime-and-racism.html

Now of course, Tony is going to call you a racist for citing simple
facts. And of course, I'll reject his post.

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Jason Burke
2017-08-11 17:05:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by John McAdams
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Roslindale Man Convicted Of Murder Is Freed After 38 Years In Prison03:12
Play
August 08, 2017
Shannon Dooling
Share
A Roslindale man convicted of murder nearly 40 years ago is now free.
Frederick Clay was arrested two weeks after his 16th birthday and has
always maintained his innocence, even when it meant refusing a plea deal
to avoid a life sentence.
On Tuesday, his murder conviction was vacated, and Clay, now 53, walked
out of a Suffolk County courtroom a free man. Clay smiled and clapped as
he entered the lobby.
"Well, it's been a long time coming," he said. "It's been 38 years for
something I didn't do. I'm kind of overwhelmed and sort of nervous."
Clay told reporters that his lawyers and even other inmates continued to
encourage him throughout the appeals process.
"Never give up," he said. "You might lose some issues along the way but
you still got to maintain who you are and don't play politics with the
truth. Stick with the truth."
Clay was arrested in 1979 for the murder of Jeffrey Boyajian, a cab
driver who was shot to death while on the job in Roslindale. Two
eyewitnesses placed Clay at the scene and in 1981 he was convicted of
first-degree murder.
Lisa Kavanaugh, director of the Committee for Public Counsel Services
Innocence Program and Clay's attorney, said the witnesses confirmed her
client's identity only after being hypnotized, an identification method
that new research has largely debunked.
Kavanaugh said that much of the testimony used against Clay would not
stand up today in court.
"There were ... profound problems with both the circumstances with which
the witnesses were able to make their initial observations and also with
the way that the police handled the identification procedures,"
Kavanaugh said.
And the prosecution agrees.
Suffolk County District Attorney Daniel Conley's office re-investigated
Clay's case through its Conviction Integrity Program. Conley said he
doesn't know whether Clay is actually innocent but he does know that Clay
did not receive a fair trial.
"We discussed it, we studied it carefully, and at the end of the day, I
simply was not convinced that justice was done," Conley said.
Justice is all Jerry Boyajian said he and his family ever wanted for his
older brother Jeffrey, the victim of the murder. He said he and his
family are now trying to move on.
"I really feel that justice failed Mr. Clay and in that respect it also
failed my brother, but there was no point in, you know, continuing to
have Mr. Clay in prison," Boyajian said.
Now that he's a free man, Clay said he will focus on learning how to
live in a world he hasn't known for almost 40 years.
"I want to spend some time with my friends and just enjoy the moment,"
he said. "Have lunch, you know, I haven't had no steak and cheese sub in
quite a while so I want to enjoy that and just try to focus on what's
coming next."
He was greeted by applause and shared a hug with his lawyers and
supporters. Next, Clay heads to a transitional program in Lowell.
This segment aired on August 8, 2017.
__________________________________________
BTW, he BLACK.
Whenever a homicide is committed the odds are that a black man committed
the crime.
"Blacks committed 52 percent of homicides between 1980 and 2008."
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7441/7-statistics-you-need-know-about-black-black-crime-aaron-bandler#
In 2008 the government stopped releasing statistics on black crime,
because facts are racist.
Not really. Homicide statistics are still released, and so are the
results of victimization surveys.
http://mu-warrior.blogspot.com/2015/09/crime-and-racism.html
Now of course, Tony is going to call you a racist for citing simple
facts. And of course, I'll reject his post.
Aw, where's the fun in rejecting Anthony Anthony's posts?
He's almost as funny as Ralph.
Post by John McAdams
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-12 00:44:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jason Burke
Post by John McAdams
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Roslindale Man Convicted Of Murder Is Freed After 38 Years In Prison03:12
Play
August 08, 2017
Shannon Dooling
Share
A Roslindale man convicted of murder nearly 40 years ago is now free.
Frederick Clay was arrested two weeks after his 16th birthday and has
always maintained his innocence, even when it meant refusing a plea deal
to avoid a life sentence.
On Tuesday, his murder conviction was vacated, and Clay, now 53, walked
out of a Suffolk County courtroom a free man. Clay smiled and clapped as
he entered the lobby.
"Well, it's been a long time coming," he said. "It's been 38 years for
something I didn't do. I'm kind of overwhelmed and sort of nervous."
Clay told reporters that his lawyers and even other inmates
continued to
encourage him throughout the appeals process.
"Never give up," he said. "You might lose some issues along the way but
you still got to maintain who you are and don't play politics with the
truth. Stick with the truth."
Clay was arrested in 1979 for the murder of Jeffrey Boyajian, a cab
driver who was shot to death while on the job in Roslindale. Two
eyewitnesses placed Clay at the scene and in 1981 he was convicted of
first-degree murder.
Lisa Kavanaugh, director of the Committee for Public Counsel Services
Innocence Program and Clay's attorney, said the witnesses confirmed her
client's identity only after being hypnotized, an identification method
that new research has largely debunked.
Kavanaugh said that much of the testimony used against Clay would not
stand up today in court.
"There were ... profound problems with both the circumstances with which
the witnesses were able to make their initial observations and also with
the way that the police handled the identification procedures,"
Kavanaugh said.
And the prosecution agrees.
Suffolk County District Attorney Daniel Conley's office re-investigated
Clay's case through its Conviction Integrity Program. Conley said he
doesn't know whether Clay is actually innocent but he does know that Clay
did not receive a fair trial.
"We discussed it, we studied it carefully, and at the end of the day, I
simply was not convinced that justice was done," Conley said.
Justice is all Jerry Boyajian said he and his family ever wanted for his
older brother Jeffrey, the victim of the murder. He said he and his
family are now trying to move on.
"I really feel that justice failed Mr. Clay and in that respect it also
failed my brother, but there was no point in, you know, continuing to
have Mr. Clay in prison," Boyajian said.
Now that he's a free man, Clay said he will focus on learning how to
live in a world he hasn't known for almost 40 years.
"I want to spend some time with my friends and just enjoy the moment,"
he said. "Have lunch, you know, I haven't had no steak and cheese sub in
quite a while so I want to enjoy that and just try to focus on what's
coming next."
He was greeted by applause and shared a hug with his lawyers and
supporters. Next, Clay heads to a transitional program in Lowell.
This segment aired on August 8, 2017.
__________________________________________
BTW, he BLACK.
Whenever a homicide is committed the odds are that a black man committed
the crime.
"Blacks committed 52 percent of homicides between 1980 and 2008."
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7441/7-statistics-you-need-know-about-black-black-crime-aaron-bandler#
In 2008 the government stopped releasing statistics on black crime,
because facts are racist.
Not really. Homicide statistics are still released, and so are the
results of victimization surveys.
http://mu-warrior.blogspot.com/2015/09/crime-and-racism.html
Now of course, Tony is going to call you a racist for citing simple
facts. And of course, I'll reject his post.
Aw, where's the fun in rejecting Anthony Anthony's posts?
He's almost as funny as Ralph.
You don't seem to understand. McAdams rejects about half my posts to
protect himself and his minions from criticism and exposure.
He even added a Cockney filter to filter out Cockney swear words.
Post by Jason Burke
Post by John McAdams
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Bud
2017-08-11 18:28:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by John McAdams
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Roslindale Man Convicted Of Murder Is Freed After 38 Years In Prison03:12
Play
August 08, 2017
Shannon Dooling
Share
A Roslindale man convicted of murder nearly 40 years ago is now free.
Frederick Clay was arrested two weeks after his 16th birthday and has
always maintained his innocence, even when it meant refusing a plea deal
to avoid a life sentence.
On Tuesday, his murder conviction was vacated, and Clay, now 53, walked
out of a Suffolk County courtroom a free man. Clay smiled and clapped as
he entered the lobby.
"Well, it's been a long time coming," he said. "It's been 38 years for
something I didn't do. I'm kind of overwhelmed and sort of nervous."
Clay told reporters that his lawyers and even other inmates continued to
encourage him throughout the appeals process.
"Never give up," he said. "You might lose some issues along the way but
you still got to maintain who you are and don't play politics with the
truth. Stick with the truth."
Clay was arrested in 1979 for the murder of Jeffrey Boyajian, a cab
driver who was shot to death while on the job in Roslindale. Two
eyewitnesses placed Clay at the scene and in 1981 he was convicted of
first-degree murder.
Lisa Kavanaugh, director of the Committee for Public Counsel Services
Innocence Program and Clay's attorney, said the witnesses confirmed her
client's identity only after being hypnotized, an identification method
that new research has largely debunked.
Kavanaugh said that much of the testimony used against Clay would not
stand up today in court.
"There were ... profound problems with both the circumstances with which
the witnesses were able to make their initial observations and also with
the way that the police handled the identification procedures,"
Kavanaugh said.
And the prosecution agrees.
Suffolk County District Attorney Daniel Conley's office re-investigated
Clay's case through its Conviction Integrity Program. Conley said he
doesn't know whether Clay is actually innocent but he does know that Clay
did not receive a fair trial.
"We discussed it, we studied it carefully, and at the end of the day, I
simply was not convinced that justice was done," Conley said.
Justice is all Jerry Boyajian said he and his family ever wanted for his
older brother Jeffrey, the victim of the murder. He said he and his
family are now trying to move on.
"I really feel that justice failed Mr. Clay and in that respect it also
failed my brother, but there was no point in, you know, continuing to
have Mr. Clay in prison," Boyajian said.
Now that he's a free man, Clay said he will focus on learning how to
live in a world he hasn't known for almost 40 years.
"I want to spend some time with my friends and just enjoy the moment,"
he said. "Have lunch, you know, I haven't had no steak and cheese sub in
quite a while so I want to enjoy that and just try to focus on what's
coming next."
He was greeted by applause and shared a hug with his lawyers and
supporters. Next, Clay heads to a transitional program in Lowell.
This segment aired on August 8, 2017.
__________________________________________
BTW, he BLACK.
Whenever a homicide is committed the odds are that a black man committed
the crime.
"Blacks committed 52 percent of homicides between 1980 and 2008."
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7441/7-statistics-you-need-know-about-black-black-crime-aaron-bandler#
In 2008 the government stopped releasing statistics on black crime,
because facts are racist.
Not really.
Right, I should have said "black person", since some of that 52% were
committed by women.
Post by John McAdams
Homicide statistics are still released, and so are the
results of victimization surveys.
http://mu-warrior.blogspot.com/2015/09/crime-and-racism.html
I think the Obama Justice Department stopped releasing statistics on
interreacial murders.
Post by John McAdams
Now of course, Tony is going to call you a racist for citing simple
facts. And of course, I'll reject his post.
Liberal hate facts, and they like articles like the one Tony presented
that are almost completely devoid of them.

Here is an example of how the selective use of facts can be used to get
to a desired conclusion...

"The study looked at data from over 100 million traffic stops around
country, from 2011 to 2015. The study found that cops stop Black people at
rates higher than whites; and when they do make those stops, cops are more
likely to search, ticket and arrest a Black or Latino person than a white
person."

https://massappeal.com/stanford-university-police-traffic-stops-study-racism/

Unless you know whether black people keep their cars in compliance with
the law at the same rate as white people, whether black obey traffic
regulations at the same rate as whites or if white people have outstanding
warrants against them at the same rate as minorities you can`t really
judge if the disparencies are the result of racism.
Post by John McAdams
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-12 15:16:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bud
Post by John McAdams
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Roslindale Man Convicted Of Murder Is Freed After 38 Years In Prison03:12
Play
August 08, 2017
Shannon Dooling
Share
A Roslindale man convicted of murder nearly 40 years ago is now free.
Frederick Clay was arrested two weeks after his 16th birthday and has
always maintained his innocence, even when it meant refusing a plea deal
to avoid a life sentence.
On Tuesday, his murder conviction was vacated, and Clay, now 53, walked
out of a Suffolk County courtroom a free man. Clay smiled and clapped as
he entered the lobby.
"Well, it's been a long time coming," he said. "It's been 38 years for
something I didn't do. I'm kind of overwhelmed and sort of nervous."
Clay told reporters that his lawyers and even other inmates continued to
encourage him throughout the appeals process.
"Never give up," he said. "You might lose some issues along the way but
you still got to maintain who you are and don't play politics with the
truth. Stick with the truth."
Clay was arrested in 1979 for the murder of Jeffrey Boyajian, a cab
driver who was shot to death while on the job in Roslindale. Two
eyewitnesses placed Clay at the scene and in 1981 he was convicted of
first-degree murder.
Lisa Kavanaugh, director of the Committee for Public Counsel Services
Innocence Program and Clay's attorney, said the witnesses confirmed her
client's identity only after being hypnotized, an identification method
that new research has largely debunked.
Kavanaugh said that much of the testimony used against Clay would not
stand up today in court.
"There were ... profound problems with both the circumstances with which
the witnesses were able to make their initial observations and also with
the way that the police handled the identification procedures,"
Kavanaugh said.
And the prosecution agrees.
Suffolk County District Attorney Daniel Conley's office re-investigated
Clay's case through its Conviction Integrity Program. Conley said he
doesn't know whether Clay is actually innocent but he does know that Clay
did not receive a fair trial.
"We discussed it, we studied it carefully, and at the end of the day, I
simply was not convinced that justice was done," Conley said.
Justice is all Jerry Boyajian said he and his family ever wanted for his
older brother Jeffrey, the victim of the murder. He said he and his
family are now trying to move on.
"I really feel that justice failed Mr. Clay and in that respect it also
failed my brother, but there was no point in, you know, continuing to
have Mr. Clay in prison," Boyajian said.
Now that he's a free man, Clay said he will focus on learning how to
live in a world he hasn't known for almost 40 years.
"I want to spend some time with my friends and just enjoy the moment,"
he said. "Have lunch, you know, I haven't had no steak and cheese sub in
quite a while so I want to enjoy that and just try to focus on what's
coming next."
He was greeted by applause and shared a hug with his lawyers and
supporters. Next, Clay heads to a transitional program in Lowell.
This segment aired on August 8, 2017.
__________________________________________
BTW, he BLACK.
Whenever a homicide is committed the odds are that a black man committed
the crime.
"Blacks committed 52 percent of homicides between 1980 and 2008."
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7441/7-statistics-you-need-know-about-black-black-crime-aaron-bandler#
In 2008 the government stopped releasing statistics on black crime,
because facts are racist.
Not really.
Right, I should have said "black person", since some of that 52% were
committed by women.
You mean WHITE women? We overlook your hillbilly bumbling because we
already know what you're going to say even if you can't express it
accurately.
Post by Bud
Post by John McAdams
Homicide statistics are still released, and so are the
results of victimization surveys.
http://mu-warrior.blogspot.com/2015/09/crime-and-racism.html
I think the Obama Justice Department stopped releasing statistics on
interreacial murders.
Hmm, could be or maybe you just have to dig deeper.
Post by Bud
Post by John McAdams
Now of course, Tony is going to call you a racist for citing simple
facts. And of course, I'll reject his post.
Liberal hate facts, and they like articles like the one Tony presented
that are almost completely devoid of them.
What does that sentence mean? That Liberals hate the articles that I
upload? They don't hate them. They hate the injustice revealed not the
article.
Post by Bud
Here is an example of how the selective use of facts can be used to get
to a desired conclusion...
"The study looked at data from over 100 million traffic stops around
country, from 2011 to 2015. The study found that cops stop Black people at
rates higher than whites; and when they do make those stops, cops are more
likely to search, ticket and arrest a Black or Latino person than a white
person."
https://massappeal.com/stanford-university-police-traffic-stops-study-racism/
Unless you know whether black people keep their cars in compliance with
the law at the same rate as white people, whether black obey traffic
regulations at the same rate as whites or if white people have outstanding
warrants against them at the same rate as minorities you can`t really
judge if the disparencies are the result of racism.
Sure, there are a lot of variables, but you don't point out WHERE the cars
were stopped or the organized campaigns of racial profiling. When was the
last time a white guy was shot and killed for having a broken tail light?
Post by Bud
Post by John McAdams
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
OHLeeRedux
2017-08-13 13:30:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Anthony Marsh
- show quoted text -
You mean WHITE women? We overlook your hillbilly bumbling because we
already know what you're going to say even if you can't express it
accurately.



Says the man who is so unable to follow a conversation that he argues with
his own posts. Better a hillbilly than a laughing stock.
Bud
2017-08-13 13:35:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
Post by John McAdams
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Roslindale Man Convicted Of Murder Is Freed After 38 Years In Prison03:12
Play
August 08, 2017
Shannon Dooling
Share
A Roslindale man convicted of murder nearly 40 years ago is now free.
Frederick Clay was arrested two weeks after his 16th birthday and has
always maintained his innocence, even when it meant refusing a plea deal
to avoid a life sentence.
On Tuesday, his murder conviction was vacated, and Clay, now 53, walked
out of a Suffolk County courtroom a free man. Clay smiled and clapped as
he entered the lobby.
"Well, it's been a long time coming," he said. "It's been 38 years for
something I didn't do. I'm kind of overwhelmed and sort of nervous."
Clay told reporters that his lawyers and even other inmates continued to
encourage him throughout the appeals process.
"Never give up," he said. "You might lose some issues along the way but
you still got to maintain who you are and don't play politics with the
truth. Stick with the truth."
Clay was arrested in 1979 for the murder of Jeffrey Boyajian, a cab
driver who was shot to death while on the job in Roslindale. Two
eyewitnesses placed Clay at the scene and in 1981 he was convicted of
first-degree murder.
Lisa Kavanaugh, director of the Committee for Public Counsel Services
Innocence Program and Clay's attorney, said the witnesses confirmed her
client's identity only after being hypnotized, an identification method
that new research has largely debunked.
Kavanaugh said that much of the testimony used against Clay would not
stand up today in court.
"There were ... profound problems with both the circumstances with which
the witnesses were able to make their initial observations and also with
the way that the police handled the identification procedures,"
Kavanaugh said.
And the prosecution agrees.
Suffolk County District Attorney Daniel Conley's office re-investigated
Clay's case through its Conviction Integrity Program. Conley said he
doesn't know whether Clay is actually innocent but he does know that Clay
did not receive a fair trial.
"We discussed it, we studied it carefully, and at the end of the day, I
simply was not convinced that justice was done," Conley said.
Justice is all Jerry Boyajian said he and his family ever wanted for his
older brother Jeffrey, the victim of the murder. He said he and his
family are now trying to move on.
"I really feel that justice failed Mr. Clay and in that respect it also
failed my brother, but there was no point in, you know, continuing to
have Mr. Clay in prison," Boyajian said.
Now that he's a free man, Clay said he will focus on learning how to
live in a world he hasn't known for almost 40 years.
"I want to spend some time with my friends and just enjoy the moment,"
he said. "Have lunch, you know, I haven't had no steak and cheese sub in
quite a while so I want to enjoy that and just try to focus on what's
coming next."
He was greeted by applause and shared a hug with his lawyers and
supporters. Next, Clay heads to a transitional program in Lowell.
This segment aired on August 8, 2017.
__________________________________________
BTW, he BLACK.
Whenever a homicide is committed the odds are that a black man committed
the crime.
"Blacks committed 52 percent of homicides between 1980 and 2008."
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7441/7-statistics-you-need-know-about-black-black-crime-aaron-bandler#
In 2008 the government stopped releasing statistics on black crime,
because facts are racist.
Not really.
Right, I should have said "black person", since some of that 52% were
committed by women.
You mean WHITE women?
Was the 52% I referred to white people or black people?

I`ll overlook your inability to follow a discussion, as you`ve never
shown yourself capable of doing so.
Post by Anthony Marsh
We overlook your hillbilly bumbling because we
already know what you're going to say even if you can't express it
accurately.
Post by Bud
Post by John McAdams
Homicide statistics are still released, and so are the
results of victimization surveys.
http://mu-warrior.blogspot.com/2015/09/crime-and-racism.html
I think the Obama Justice Department stopped releasing statistics on
interreacial murders.
Hmm, could be or maybe you just have to dig deeper.
Not that interested.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
Post by John McAdams
Now of course, Tony is going to call you a racist for citing simple
facts. And of course, I'll reject his post.
Liberal hate facts, and they like articles like the one Tony presented
that are almost completely devoid of them.
What does that sentence mean?
I tried to use small words. Did "devoid" throw you off?
Post by Anthony Marsh
That Liberals hate the articles that I
upload? They don't hate them. They hate the injustice revealed not the
article.
Post by Bud
Here is an example of how the selective use of facts can be used to get
to a desired conclusion...
"The study looked at data from over 100 million traffic stops around
country, from 2011 to 2015. The study found that cops stop Black people at
rates higher than whites; and when they do make those stops, cops are more
likely to search, ticket and arrest a Black or Latino person than a white
person."
https://massappeal.com/stanford-university-police-traffic-stops-study-racism/
Unless you know whether black people keep their cars in compliance with
the law at the same rate as white people, whether black obey traffic
regulations at the same rate as whites or if white people have outstanding
warrants against them at the same rate as minorities you can`t really
judge if the disparencies are the result of racism.
Sure, there are a lot of variables, but you don't point out WHERE the cars
were stopped or the organized campaigns of racial profiling.
A liberal like Marsh is willing to assume that the racism is there, and
can`t be bothered to show it.
Post by Anthony Marsh
When was the
last time a white guy was shot and killed for having a broken tail light?
Liberal are always inventing boogeymen because they are afraid to
address the real problems.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
Post by John McAdams
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-14 16:49:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
Post by John McAdams
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Roslindale Man Convicted Of Murder Is Freed After 38 Years In Prison03:12
Play
August 08, 2017
Shannon Dooling
Share
A Roslindale man convicted of murder nearly 40 years ago is now free.
Frederick Clay was arrested two weeks after his 16th birthday and has
always maintained his innocence, even when it meant refusing a plea deal
to avoid a life sentence.
On Tuesday, his murder conviction was vacated, and Clay, now 53, walked
out of a Suffolk County courtroom a free man. Clay smiled and clapped as
he entered the lobby.
"Well, it's been a long time coming," he said. "It's been 38 years for
something I didn't do. I'm kind of overwhelmed and sort of nervous."
Clay told reporters that his lawyers and even other inmates continued to
encourage him throughout the appeals process.
"Never give up," he said. "You might lose some issues along the way but
you still got to maintain who you are and don't play politics with the
truth. Stick with the truth."
Clay was arrested in 1979 for the murder of Jeffrey Boyajian, a cab
driver who was shot to death while on the job in Roslindale. Two
eyewitnesses placed Clay at the scene and in 1981 he was convicted of
first-degree murder.
Lisa Kavanaugh, director of the Committee for Public Counsel Services
Innocence Program and Clay's attorney, said the witnesses confirmed her
client's identity only after being hypnotized, an identification method
that new research has largely debunked.
Kavanaugh said that much of the testimony used against Clay would not
stand up today in court.
"There were ... profound problems with both the circumstances with which
the witnesses were able to make their initial observations and also with
the way that the police handled the identification procedures,"
Kavanaugh said.
And the prosecution agrees.
Suffolk County District Attorney Daniel Conley's office re-investigated
Clay's case through its Conviction Integrity Program. Conley said he
doesn't know whether Clay is actually innocent but he does know that Clay
did not receive a fair trial.
"We discussed it, we studied it carefully, and at the end of the day, I
simply was not convinced that justice was done," Conley said.
Justice is all Jerry Boyajian said he and his family ever wanted for his
older brother Jeffrey, the victim of the murder. He said he and his
family are now trying to move on.
"I really feel that justice failed Mr. Clay and in that respect it also
failed my brother, but there was no point in, you know, continuing to
have Mr. Clay in prison," Boyajian said.
Now that he's a free man, Clay said he will focus on learning how to
live in a world he hasn't known for almost 40 years.
"I want to spend some time with my friends and just enjoy the moment,"
he said. "Have lunch, you know, I haven't had no steak and cheese sub in
quite a while so I want to enjoy that and just try to focus on what's
coming next."
He was greeted by applause and shared a hug with his lawyers and
supporters. Next, Clay heads to a transitional program in Lowell.
This segment aired on August 8, 2017.
__________________________________________
BTW, he BLACK.
Whenever a homicide is committed the odds are that a black man committed
the crime.
"Blacks committed 52 percent of homicides between 1980 and 2008."
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7441/7-statistics-you-need-know-about-black-black-crime-aaron-bandler#
In 2008 the government stopped releasing statistics on black crime,
because facts are racist.
Not really.
Right, I should have said "black person", since some of that 52% were
committed by women.
You mean WHITE women?
Was the 52% I referred to white people or black people?
I`ll overlook your inability to follow a discussion, as you`ve never
shown yourself capable of doing so.
So now you backtrack and change it from 52% black people to 52% black
women? Isn't that a fatal overcorrection?
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
We overlook your hillbilly bumbling because we
already know what you're going to say even if you can't express it
accurately.
Post by Bud
Post by John McAdams
Homicide statistics are still released, and so are the
results of victimization surveys.
http://mu-warrior.blogspot.com/2015/09/crime-and-racism.html
I think the Obama Justice Department stopped releasing statistics on
interreacial murders.
Hmm, could be or maybe you just have to dig deeper.
Not that interested.
We knew that already. Low information voter.
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
Post by John McAdams
Now of course, Tony is going to call you a racist for citing simple
facts. And of course, I'll reject his post.
Liberal hate facts, and they like articles like the one Tony presented
that are almost completely devoid of them.
What does that sentence mean?
I tried to use small words. Did "devoid" throw you off?
Post by Anthony Marsh
That Liberals hate the articles that I
upload? They don't hate them. They hate the injustice revealed not the
article.
Post by Bud
Here is an example of how the selective use of facts can be used to get
to a desired conclusion...
"The study looked at data from over 100 million traffic stops around
country, from 2011 to 2015. The study found that cops stop Black people at
rates higher than whites; and when they do make those stops, cops are more
likely to search, ticket and arrest a Black or Latino person than a white
person."
https://massappeal.com/stanford-university-police-traffic-stops-study-racism/
Unless you know whether black people keep their cars in compliance with
the law at the same rate as white people, whether black obey traffic
regulations at the same rate as whites or if white people have outstanding
warrants against them at the same rate as minorities you can`t really
judge if the disparencies are the result of racism.
Sure, there are a lot of variables, but you don't point out WHERE the cars
were stopped or the organized campaigns of racial profiling.
A liberal like Marsh is willing to assume that the racism is there, and
can`t be bothered to show it.
Racism is always there.
We see it every day.
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
When was the
last time a white guy was shot and killed for having a broken tail light?
Liberal are always inventing boogeymen because they are afraid to
address the real problems.
Your real problem is you.
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
Post by John McAdams
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-12 00:28:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by John McAdams
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Roslindale Man Convicted Of Murder Is Freed After 38 Years In Prison03:12
Play
August 08, 2017
Shannon Dooling
Share
A Roslindale man convicted of murder nearly 40 years ago is now free.
Frederick Clay was arrested two weeks after his 16th birthday and has
always maintained his innocence, even when it meant refusing a plea deal
to avoid a life sentence.
On Tuesday, his murder conviction was vacated, and Clay, now 53, walked
out of a Suffolk County courtroom a free man. Clay smiled and clapped as
he entered the lobby.
"Well, it's been a long time coming," he said. "It's been 38 years for
something I didn't do. I'm kind of overwhelmed and sort of nervous."
Clay told reporters that his lawyers and even other inmates continued to
encourage him throughout the appeals process.
"Never give up," he said. "You might lose some issues along the way but
you still got to maintain who you are and don't play politics with the
truth. Stick with the truth."
Clay was arrested in 1979 for the murder of Jeffrey Boyajian, a cab
driver who was shot to death while on the job in Roslindale. Two
eyewitnesses placed Clay at the scene and in 1981 he was convicted of
first-degree murder.
Lisa Kavanaugh, director of the Committee for Public Counsel Services
Innocence Program and Clay's attorney, said the witnesses confirmed her
client's identity only after being hypnotized, an identification method
that new research has largely debunked.
Kavanaugh said that much of the testimony used against Clay would not
stand up today in court.
"There were ... profound problems with both the circumstances with which
the witnesses were able to make their initial observations and also with
the way that the police handled the identification procedures,"
Kavanaugh said.
And the prosecution agrees.
Suffolk County District Attorney Daniel Conley's office re-investigated
Clay's case through its Conviction Integrity Program. Conley said he
doesn't know whether Clay is actually innocent but he does know that Clay
did not receive a fair trial.
"We discussed it, we studied it carefully, and at the end of the day, I
simply was not convinced that justice was done," Conley said.
Justice is all Jerry Boyajian said he and his family ever wanted for his
older brother Jeffrey, the victim of the murder. He said he and his
family are now trying to move on.
"I really feel that justice failed Mr. Clay and in that respect it also
failed my brother, but there was no point in, you know, continuing to
have Mr. Clay in prison," Boyajian said.
Now that he's a free man, Clay said he will focus on learning how to
live in a world he hasn't known for almost 40 years.
"I want to spend some time with my friends and just enjoy the moment,"
he said. "Have lunch, you know, I haven't had no steak and cheese sub in
quite a while so I want to enjoy that and just try to focus on what's
coming next."
He was greeted by applause and shared a hug with his lawyers and
supporters. Next, Clay heads to a transitional program in Lowell.
This segment aired on August 8, 2017.
__________________________________________
BTW, he BLACK.
Whenever a homicide is committed the odds are that a black man committed
the crime.
"Blacks committed 52 percent of homicides between 1980 and 2008."
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7441/7-statistics-you-need-know-about-black-black-crime-aaron-bandler#
In 2008 the government stopped releasing statistics on black crime,
because facts are racist.
Not really. Homicide statistics are still released, and so are the
results of victimization surveys.
http://mu-warrior.blogspot.com/2015/09/crime-and-racism.html
Now of course, Tony is going to call you a racist for citing simple
facts. And of course, I'll reject his post.
If you reject my post as you always do then how can you prove that your
prediction was correct?
Of course it is racist and it is not as simple as the racists say.
You neglect to account for the fact that blacks are convicted more than
whites and many times unfairly as in the case I cited.
Two defendants commit the same crime. The black man gets life in prison.
The White man goes free. That's the statistic.
Post by John McAdams
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Bud
2017-08-13 03:23:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Roslindale Man Convicted Of Murder Is Freed After 38 Years In Prison03:12
Play
August 08, 2017
Shannon Dooling
Share
A Roslindale man convicted of murder nearly 40 years ago is now free.
Frederick Clay was arrested two weeks after his 16th birthday and has
always maintained his innocence, even when it meant refusing a plea deal
to avoid a life sentence.
On Tuesday, his murder conviction was vacated, and Clay, now 53, walked
out of a Suffolk County courtroom a free man. Clay smiled and clapped as
he entered the lobby.
"Well, it's been a long time coming," he said. "It's been 38 years for
something I didn't do. I'm kind of overwhelmed and sort of nervous."
Clay told reporters that his lawyers and even other inmates continued to
encourage him throughout the appeals process.
"Never give up," he said. "You might lose some issues along the way but
you still got to maintain who you are and don't play politics with the
truth. Stick with the truth."
Clay was arrested in 1979 for the murder of Jeffrey Boyajian, a cab
driver who was shot to death while on the job in Roslindale. Two
eyewitnesses placed Clay at the scene and in 1981 he was convicted of
first-degree murder.
Lisa Kavanaugh, director of the Committee for Public Counsel Services
Innocence Program and Clay's attorney, said the witnesses confirmed her
client's identity only after being hypnotized, an identification method
that new research has largely debunked.
Kavanaugh said that much of the testimony used against Clay would not
stand up today in court.
"There were ... profound problems with both the circumstances with which
the witnesses were able to make their initial observations and also with
the way that the police handled the identification procedures,"
Kavanaugh said.
And the prosecution agrees.
Suffolk County District Attorney Daniel Conley's office re-investigated
Clay's case through its Conviction Integrity Program. Conley said he
doesn't know whether Clay is actually innocent but he does know that Clay
did not receive a fair trial.
"We discussed it, we studied it carefully, and at the end of the day, I
simply was not convinced that justice was done," Conley said.
Justice is all Jerry Boyajian said he and his family ever wanted for his
older brother Jeffrey, the victim of the murder. He said he and his
family are now trying to move on.
"I really feel that justice failed Mr. Clay and in that respect it also
failed my brother, but there was no point in, you know, continuing to
have Mr. Clay in prison," Boyajian said.
Now that he's a free man, Clay said he will focus on learning how to
live in a world he hasn't known for almost 40 years.
"I want to spend some time with my friends and just enjoy the moment,"
he said. "Have lunch, you know, I haven't had no steak and cheese sub in
quite a while so I want to enjoy that and just try to focus on what's
coming next."
He was greeted by applause and shared a hug with his lawyers and
supporters. Next, Clay heads to a transitional program in Lowell.
This segment aired on August 8, 2017.
__________________________________________
BTW, he BLACK.
Whenever a homicide is committed the odds are that a black man committed
the crime.
"Blacks committed 52 percent of homicides between 1980 and 2008."
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7441/7-statistics-you-need-know-about-black-black-crime-aaron-bandler#
In 2008 the government stopped releasing statistics on black crime,
because facts are racist.
Not really. Homicide statistics are still released, and so are the
results of victimization surveys.
http://mu-warrior.blogspot.com/2015/09/crime-and-racism.html
Now of course, Tony is going to call you a racist for citing simple
facts. And of course, I'll reject his post.
If you reject my post as you always do then how can you prove that your
prediction was correct?
Of course it is racist and it is not as simple as the racists say.
You neglect to account for the fact that blacks are convicted more than
whites and many times unfairly as in the case I cited.
You refuse to support either of these claims. Liberal fantasies are not
facts.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Two defendants commit the same crime. The black man gets life in prison.
The White man goes free. That's the statistic.
Thats the empty claim.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
John McAdams
2017-08-13 03:30:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 11 Aug 2017 20:28:38 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
BTW, he BLACK.
Whenever a homicide is committed the odds are that a black man committed
the crime.
"Blacks committed 52 percent of homicides between 1980 and 2008."
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7441/7-statistics-you-need-know-about-black-black-crime-aaron-bandler#
In 2008 the government stopped releasing statistics on black crime,
because facts are racist.
Not really. Homicide statistics are still released, and so are the
results of victimization surveys.
http://mu-warrior.blogspot.com/2015/09/crime-and-racism.html
Now of course, Tony is going to call you a racist for citing simple
facts. And of course, I'll reject his post.
If you reject my post as you always do then how can you prove that your
prediction was correct?
Of course it is racist and it is not as simple as the racists say.
You are admitting you view facts as racist?
Post by Anthony Marsh
You neglect to account for the fact that blacks are convicted more than
whites and many times unfairly as in the case I cited.
It's not a fact at all. Even assuming the conviction was unfair (and
I'm not merely going to believe a newspaper article, or advocates),
you have no evidence that race played a part.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Two defendants commit the same crime. The black man gets life in prison.
The White man goes free. That's the statistic.
No, it's not.

Why do you feel free just to make things up?

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-14 19:08:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by John McAdams
On 11 Aug 2017 20:28:38 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
BTW, he BLACK.
Whenever a homicide is committed the odds are that a black man committed
the crime.
"Blacks committed 52 percent of homicides between 1980 and 2008."
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7441/7-statistics-you-need-know-about-black-black-crime-aaron-bandler#
In 2008 the government stopped releasing statistics on black crime,
because facts are racist.
Not really. Homicide statistics are still released, and so are the
results of victimization surveys.
http://mu-warrior.blogspot.com/2015/09/crime-and-racism.html
Now of course, Tony is going to call you a racist for citing simple
facts. And of course, I'll reject his post.
If you reject my post as you always do then how can you prove that your
prediction was correct?
Of course it is racist and it is not as simple as the racists say.
You are admitting you view facts as racist?
Post by Anthony Marsh
You neglect to account for the fact that blacks are convicted more than
whites and many times unfairly as in the case I cited.
It's not a fact at all. Even assuming the conviction was unfair (and
I'm not merely going to believe a newspaper article, or advocates),
you have no evidence that race played a part.
The Innocence project has statistics. So does the Southern Poverty Law
Center.
Post by John McAdams
Post by Anthony Marsh
Two defendants commit the same crime. The black man gets life in prison.
The White man goes free. That's the statistic.
No, it's not.
Yes, it is.

Black people convicted of murder or sexual assault are significantly more
likely than their white counterparts to be later found innocent of the
crimes, according to a review of nearly 2,000 exonerations nationwide over
almost three decades.

Innocent blacks also had to wait disproportionately longer for their names
to be cleared than innocent whites, the review, released on Tuesday by the
National Registry of Exonerations, found. Blacks wrongfully convicted of
murder, for example, spent an average of three more years in prison before
being released than whites who were cleared.
Post by John McAdams
Why do you feel free just to make things up?
I have the facts on my side. All you have is your bias.
Post by John McAdams
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Jason Burke
2017-08-11 17:00:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Roslindale Man Convicted Of Murder Is Freed After 38 Years In Prison03:12
Play
August 08, 2017
Shannon Dooling
Share
A Roslindale man convicted of murder nearly 40 years ago is now free.
Frederick Clay was arrested two weeks after his 16th birthday and has
always maintained his innocence, even when it meant refusing a plea deal
to avoid a life sentence.
On Tuesday, his murder conviction was vacated, and Clay, now 53, walked
out of a Suffolk County courtroom a free man. Clay smiled and clapped as
he entered the lobby.
"Well, it's been a long time coming," he said. "It's been 38 years for
something I didn't do. I'm kind of overwhelmed and sort of nervous."
Clay told reporters that his lawyers and even other inmates continued to
encourage him throughout the appeals process.
"Never give up," he said. "You might lose some issues along the way but
you still got to maintain who you are and don't play politics with the
truth. Stick with the truth."
Clay was arrested in 1979 for the murder of Jeffrey Boyajian, a cab
driver who was shot to death while on the job in Roslindale. Two
eyewitnesses placed Clay at the scene and in 1981 he was convicted of
first-degree murder.
Lisa Kavanaugh, director of the Committee for Public Counsel Services
Innocence Program and Clay's attorney, said the witnesses confirmed her
client's identity only after being hypnotized, an identification method
that new research has largely debunked.
Kavanaugh said that much of the testimony used against Clay would not
stand up today in court.
"There were ... profound problems with both the circumstances with which
the witnesses were able to make their initial observations and also with
the way that the police handled the identification procedures,"
Kavanaugh said.
And the prosecution agrees.
Suffolk County District Attorney Daniel Conley's office re-investigated
Clay's case through its Conviction Integrity Program. Conley said he
doesn't know whether Clay is actually innocent but he does know that Clay
did not receive a fair trial.
"We discussed it, we studied it carefully, and at the end of the day, I
simply was not convinced that justice was done," Conley said.
Justice is all Jerry Boyajian said he and his family ever wanted for his
older brother Jeffrey, the victim of the murder. He said he and his
family are now trying to move on.
"I really feel that justice failed Mr. Clay and in that respect it also
failed my brother, but there was no point in, you know, continuing to
have Mr. Clay in prison," Boyajian said.
Now that he's a free man, Clay said he will focus on learning how to
live in a world he hasn't known for almost 40 years.
"I want to spend some time with my friends and just enjoy the moment,"
he said. "Have lunch, you know, I haven't had no steak and cheese sub in
quite a while so I want to enjoy that and just try to focus on what's
coming next."
He was greeted by applause and shared a hug with his lawyers and
supporters. Next, Clay heads to a transitional program in Lowell.
This segment aired on August 8, 2017.
__________________________________________
BTW, he BLACK.
Um, Anthony Anthony. The correct vernacular is:

"He be black."
Post by Bud
Whenever a homicide is committed the odds are that a black man committed
the crime.
"Blacks committed 52 percent of homicides between 1980 and 2008."
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7441/7-statistics-you-need-know-about-black-black-crime-aaron-bandler#
In 2008 the government stopped releasing statistics on black crime,
because facts are racist.
Post by Anthony Marsh
So, what does this have to do with the JFK assassination?
The deadheads and the Nazis won't get it.
It is known as an object lesson.
NEVER RELY on witnesses.
Maybe Oswald was guilty, maybe be was innocent, maybe he was framed.
But we'll never know for sure because he didn't get a fair trail.
It can be determined that Oswald killed Kennedy. Just not by everyone.
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-12 00:28:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Roslindale Man Convicted Of Murder Is Freed After 38 Years In Prison03:12
Play
August 08, 2017
Shannon Dooling
Share
A Roslindale man convicted of murder nearly 40 years ago is now free.
Frederick Clay was arrested two weeks after his 16th birthday and has
always maintained his innocence, even when it meant refusing a plea deal
to avoid a life sentence.
On Tuesday, his murder conviction was vacated, and Clay, now 53, walked
out of a Suffolk County courtroom a free man. Clay smiled and clapped as
he entered the lobby.
"Well, it's been a long time coming," he said. "It's been 38 years for
something I didn't do. I'm kind of overwhelmed and sort of nervous."
Clay told reporters that his lawyers and even other inmates continued to
encourage him throughout the appeals process.
"Never give up," he said. "You might lose some issues along the way but
you still got to maintain who you are and don't play politics with the
truth. Stick with the truth."
Clay was arrested in 1979 for the murder of Jeffrey Boyajian, a cab
driver who was shot to death while on the job in Roslindale. Two
eyewitnesses placed Clay at the scene and in 1981 he was convicted of
first-degree murder.
Lisa Kavanaugh, director of the Committee for Public Counsel Services
Innocence Program and Clay's attorney, said the witnesses confirmed her
client's identity only after being hypnotized, an identification method
that new research has largely debunked.
Kavanaugh said that much of the testimony used against Clay would not
stand up today in court.
"There were ... profound problems with both the circumstances with which
the witnesses were able to make their initial observations and also with
the way that the police handled the identification procedures,"
Kavanaugh said.
And the prosecution agrees.
Suffolk County District Attorney Daniel Conley's office re-investigated
Clay's case through its Conviction Integrity Program. Conley said he
doesn't know whether Clay is actually innocent but he does know that Clay
did not receive a fair trial.
"We discussed it, we studied it carefully, and at the end of the day, I
simply was not convinced that justice was done," Conley said.
Justice is all Jerry Boyajian said he and his family ever wanted for his
older brother Jeffrey, the victim of the murder. He said he and his
family are now trying to move on.
"I really feel that justice failed Mr. Clay and in that respect it also
failed my brother, but there was no point in, you know, continuing to
have Mr. Clay in prison," Boyajian said.
Now that he's a free man, Clay said he will focus on learning how to
live in a world he hasn't known for almost 40 years.
"I want to spend some time with my friends and just enjoy the moment,"
he said. "Have lunch, you know, I haven't had no steak and cheese sub in
quite a while so I want to enjoy that and just try to focus on what's
coming next."
He was greeted by applause and shared a hug with his lawyers and
supporters. Next, Clay heads to a transitional program in Lowell.
This segment aired on August 8, 2017.
__________________________________________
BTW, he BLACK.
Whenever a homicide is committed the odds are that a black man committed
the crime.
"Blacks committed 52 percent of homicides between 1980 and 2008."
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7441/7-statistics-you-need-know-about-black-black-crime-aaron-bandler#
In 2008 the government stopped releasing statistics on black crime,
because facts are racist.
Post by Anthony Marsh
So, what does this have to do with the JFK assassination?
The deadheads and the Nazis won't get it.
It is known as an object lesson.
NEVER RELY on witnesses.
Maybe Oswald was guilty, maybe be was innocent, maybe he was framed.
But we'll never know for sure because he didn't get a fair trail.
It can be determined that Oswald killed Kennedy. Just not by everyone.
No. That is just your bias.
Bud
2017-08-13 03:23:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Roslindale Man Convicted Of Murder Is Freed After 38 Years In Prison03:12
Play
August 08, 2017
Shannon Dooling
Share
A Roslindale man convicted of murder nearly 40 years ago is now free.
Frederick Clay was arrested two weeks after his 16th birthday and has
always maintained his innocence, even when it meant refusing a plea deal
to avoid a life sentence.
On Tuesday, his murder conviction was vacated, and Clay, now 53, walked
out of a Suffolk County courtroom a free man. Clay smiled and clapped as
he entered the lobby.
"Well, it's been a long time coming," he said. "It's been 38 years for
something I didn't do. I'm kind of overwhelmed and sort of nervous."
Clay told reporters that his lawyers and even other inmates continued to
encourage him throughout the appeals process.
"Never give up," he said. "You might lose some issues along the way but
you still got to maintain who you are and don't play politics with the
truth. Stick with the truth."
Clay was arrested in 1979 for the murder of Jeffrey Boyajian, a cab
driver who was shot to death while on the job in Roslindale. Two
eyewitnesses placed Clay at the scene and in 1981 he was convicted of
first-degree murder.
Lisa Kavanaugh, director of the Committee for Public Counsel Services
Innocence Program and Clay's attorney, said the witnesses confirmed her
client's identity only after being hypnotized, an identification method
that new research has largely debunked.
Kavanaugh said that much of the testimony used against Clay would not
stand up today in court.
"There were ... profound problems with both the circumstances with which
the witnesses were able to make their initial observations and also with
the way that the police handled the identification procedures,"
Kavanaugh said.
And the prosecution agrees.
Suffolk County District Attorney Daniel Conley's office re-investigated
Clay's case through its Conviction Integrity Program. Conley said he
doesn't know whether Clay is actually innocent but he does know that Clay
did not receive a fair trial.
"We discussed it, we studied it carefully, and at the end of the day, I
simply was not convinced that justice was done," Conley said.
Justice is all Jerry Boyajian said he and his family ever wanted for his
older brother Jeffrey, the victim of the murder. He said he and his
family are now trying to move on.
"I really feel that justice failed Mr. Clay and in that respect it also
failed my brother, but there was no point in, you know, continuing to
have Mr. Clay in prison," Boyajian said.
Now that he's a free man, Clay said he will focus on learning how to
live in a world he hasn't known for almost 40 years.
"I want to spend some time with my friends and just enjoy the moment,"
he said. "Have lunch, you know, I haven't had no steak and cheese sub in
quite a while so I want to enjoy that and just try to focus on what's
coming next."
He was greeted by applause and shared a hug with his lawyers and
supporters. Next, Clay heads to a transitional program in Lowell.
This segment aired on August 8, 2017.
__________________________________________
BTW, he BLACK.
Whenever a homicide is committed the odds are that a black man committed
the crime.
"Blacks committed 52 percent of homicides between 1980 and 2008."
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7441/7-statistics-you-need-know-about-black-black-crime-aaron-bandler#
In 2008 the government stopped releasing statistics on black crime,
because facts are racist.
Post by Anthony Marsh
So, what does this have to do with the JFK assassination?
The deadheads and the Nazis won't get it.
It is known as an object lesson.
NEVER RELY on witnesses.
Maybe Oswald was guilty, maybe be was innocent, maybe he was framed.
But we'll never know for sure because he didn't get a fair trail.
It can be determined that Oswald killed Kennedy. Just not by everyone.
No. That is just your bias.
Why would I be biased against Oswald?
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-14 19:09:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Roslindale Man Convicted Of Murder Is Freed After 38 Years In Prison03:12
Play
August 08, 2017
Shannon Dooling
Share
A Roslindale man convicted of murder nearly 40 years ago is now free.
Frederick Clay was arrested two weeks after his 16th birthday and has
always maintained his innocence, even when it meant refusing a plea deal
to avoid a life sentence.
On Tuesday, his murder conviction was vacated, and Clay, now 53, walked
out of a Suffolk County courtroom a free man. Clay smiled and clapped as
he entered the lobby.
"Well, it's been a long time coming," he said. "It's been 38 years for
something I didn't do. I'm kind of overwhelmed and sort of nervous."
Clay told reporters that his lawyers and even other inmates continued to
encourage him throughout the appeals process.
"Never give up," he said. "You might lose some issues along the way but
you still got to maintain who you are and don't play politics with the
truth. Stick with the truth."
Clay was arrested in 1979 for the murder of Jeffrey Boyajian, a cab
driver who was shot to death while on the job in Roslindale. Two
eyewitnesses placed Clay at the scene and in 1981 he was convicted of
first-degree murder.
Lisa Kavanaugh, director of the Committee for Public Counsel Services
Innocence Program and Clay's attorney, said the witnesses confirmed her
client's identity only after being hypnotized, an identification method
that new research has largely debunked.
Kavanaugh said that much of the testimony used against Clay would not
stand up today in court.
"There were ... profound problems with both the circumstances with which
the witnesses were able to make their initial observations and also with
the way that the police handled the identification procedures,"
Kavanaugh said.
And the prosecution agrees.
Suffolk County District Attorney Daniel Conley's office re-investigated
Clay's case through its Conviction Integrity Program. Conley said he
doesn't know whether Clay is actually innocent but he does know that Clay
did not receive a fair trial.
"We discussed it, we studied it carefully, and at the end of the day, I
simply was not convinced that justice was done," Conley said.
Justice is all Jerry Boyajian said he and his family ever wanted for his
older brother Jeffrey, the victim of the murder. He said he and his
family are now trying to move on.
"I really feel that justice failed Mr. Clay and in that respect it also
failed my brother, but there was no point in, you know, continuing to
have Mr. Clay in prison," Boyajian said.
Now that he's a free man, Clay said he will focus on learning how to
live in a world he hasn't known for almost 40 years.
"I want to spend some time with my friends and just enjoy the moment,"
he said. "Have lunch, you know, I haven't had no steak and cheese sub in
quite a while so I want to enjoy that and just try to focus on what's
coming next."
He was greeted by applause and shared a hug with his lawyers and
supporters. Next, Clay heads to a transitional program in Lowell.
This segment aired on August 8, 2017.
__________________________________________
BTW, he BLACK.
Whenever a homicide is committed the odds are that a black man committed
the crime.
"Blacks committed 52 percent of homicides between 1980 and 2008."
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7441/7-statistics-you-need-know-about-black-black-crime-aaron-bandler#
In 2008 the government stopped releasing statistics on black crime,
because facts are racist.
Post by Anthony Marsh
So, what does this have to do with the JFK assassination?
The deadheads and the Nazis won't get it.
It is known as an object lesson.
NEVER RELY on witnesses.
Maybe Oswald was guilty, maybe be was innocent, maybe he was framed.
But we'll never know for sure because he didn't get a fair trail.
It can be determined that Oswald killed Kennedy. Just not by everyone.
No. That is just your bias.
Why would I be biased against Oswald?
Because you think he was a Communist, you know he defected and you know
he supported Castro. That is enough cause right there.
Bud
2017-08-15 00:33:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Roslindale Man Convicted Of Murder Is Freed After 38 Years In Prison03:12
Play
August 08, 2017
Shannon Dooling
Share
A Roslindale man convicted of murder nearly 40 years ago is now free.
Frederick Clay was arrested two weeks after his 16th birthday and has
always maintained his innocence, even when it meant refusing a plea deal
to avoid a life sentence.
On Tuesday, his murder conviction was vacated, and Clay, now 53, walked
out of a Suffolk County courtroom a free man. Clay smiled and clapped as
he entered the lobby.
"Well, it's been a long time coming," he said. "It's been 38 years for
something I didn't do. I'm kind of overwhelmed and sort of nervous."
Clay told reporters that his lawyers and even other inmates continued to
encourage him throughout the appeals process.
"Never give up," he said. "You might lose some issues along the way but
you still got to maintain who you are and don't play politics with the
truth. Stick with the truth."
Clay was arrested in 1979 for the murder of Jeffrey Boyajian, a cab
driver who was shot to death while on the job in Roslindale. Two
eyewitnesses placed Clay at the scene and in 1981 he was convicted of
first-degree murder.
Lisa Kavanaugh, director of the Committee for Public Counsel Services
Innocence Program and Clay's attorney, said the witnesses confirmed her
client's identity only after being hypnotized, an identification method
that new research has largely debunked.
Kavanaugh said that much of the testimony used against Clay would not
stand up today in court.
"There were ... profound problems with both the circumstances with which
the witnesses were able to make their initial observations and also with
the way that the police handled the identification procedures,"
Kavanaugh said.
And the prosecution agrees.
Suffolk County District Attorney Daniel Conley's office re-investigated
Clay's case through its Conviction Integrity Program. Conley said he
doesn't know whether Clay is actually innocent but he does know that Clay
did not receive a fair trial.
"We discussed it, we studied it carefully, and at the end of the day, I
simply was not convinced that justice was done," Conley said.
Justice is all Jerry Boyajian said he and his family ever wanted for his
older brother Jeffrey, the victim of the murder. He said he and his
family are now trying to move on.
"I really feel that justice failed Mr. Clay and in that respect it also
failed my brother, but there was no point in, you know, continuing to
have Mr. Clay in prison," Boyajian said.
Now that he's a free man, Clay said he will focus on learning how to
live in a world he hasn't known for almost 40 years.
"I want to spend some time with my friends and just enjoy the moment,"
he said. "Have lunch, you know, I haven't had no steak and cheese sub in
quite a while so I want to enjoy that and just try to focus on what's
coming next."
He was greeted by applause and shared a hug with his lawyers and
supporters. Next, Clay heads to a transitional program in Lowell.
This segment aired on August 8, 2017.
__________________________________________
BTW, he BLACK.
Whenever a homicide is committed the odds are that a black man committed
the crime.
"Blacks committed 52 percent of homicides between 1980 and 2008."
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7441/7-statistics-you-need-know-about-black-black-crime-aaron-bandler#
In 2008 the government stopped releasing statistics on black crime,
because facts are racist.
Post by Anthony Marsh
So, what does this have to do with the JFK assassination?
The deadheads and the Nazis won't get it.
It is known as an object lesson.
NEVER RELY on witnesses.
Maybe Oswald was guilty, maybe be was innocent, maybe he was framed.
But we'll never know for sure because he didn't get a fair trail.
It can be determined that Oswald killed Kennedy. Just not by everyone.
No. That is just your bias.
Why would I be biased against Oswald?
Because you think he was a Communist, you know he defected and you know
he supported Castro.
Wasn`t he all those things?
Post by Anthony Marsh
That is enough cause right there.
Those are some of the things you can use to help determine his guilt,
sure.
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-12 00:29:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Roslindale Man Convicted Of Murder Is Freed After 38 Years In Prison03:12
Play
August 08, 2017
Shannon Dooling
Share
A Roslindale man convicted of murder nearly 40 years ago is now free.
Frederick Clay was arrested two weeks after his 16th birthday and has
always maintained his innocence, even when it meant refusing a plea deal
to avoid a life sentence.
On Tuesday, his murder conviction was vacated, and Clay, now 53, walked
out of a Suffolk County courtroom a free man. Clay smiled and clapped as
he entered the lobby.
"Well, it's been a long time coming," he said. "It's been 38 years for
something I didn't do. I'm kind of overwhelmed and sort of nervous."
Clay told reporters that his lawyers and even other inmates continued to
encourage him throughout the appeals process.
"Never give up," he said. "You might lose some issues along the way but
you still got to maintain who you are and don't play politics with the
truth. Stick with the truth."
Clay was arrested in 1979 for the murder of Jeffrey Boyajian, a cab
driver who was shot to death while on the job in Roslindale. Two
eyewitnesses placed Clay at the scene and in 1981 he was convicted of
first-degree murder.
Lisa Kavanaugh, director of the Committee for Public Counsel Services
Innocence Program and Clay's attorney, said the witnesses confirmed her
client's identity only after being hypnotized, an identification method
that new research has largely debunked.
Kavanaugh said that much of the testimony used against Clay would not
stand up today in court.
"There were ... profound problems with both the circumstances with which
the witnesses were able to make their initial observations and also with
the way that the police handled the identification procedures,"
Kavanaugh said.
And the prosecution agrees.
Suffolk County District Attorney Daniel Conley's office re-investigated
Clay's case through its Conviction Integrity Program. Conley said he
doesn't know whether Clay is actually innocent but he does know that Clay
did not receive a fair trial.
"We discussed it, we studied it carefully, and at the end of the day, I
simply was not convinced that justice was done," Conley said.
Justice is all Jerry Boyajian said he and his family ever wanted for his
older brother Jeffrey, the victim of the murder. He said he and his
family are now trying to move on.
"I really feel that justice failed Mr. Clay and in that respect it also
failed my brother, but there was no point in, you know, continuing to
have Mr. Clay in prison," Boyajian said.
Now that he's a free man, Clay said he will focus on learning how to
live in a world he hasn't known for almost 40 years.
"I want to spend some time with my friends and just enjoy the moment,"
he said. "Have lunch, you know, I haven't had no steak and cheese sub in
quite a while so I want to enjoy that and just try to focus on what's
coming next."
He was greeted by applause and shared a hug with his lawyers and
supporters. Next, Clay heads to a transitional program in Lowell.
This segment aired on August 8, 2017.
__________________________________________
BTW, he BLACK.
Whenever a homicide is committed the odds are that a black man committed
the crime.
"Blacks committed 52 percent of homicides between 1980 and 2008."
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7441/7-statistics-you-need-know-about-black-black-crime-aaron-bandler#
In 2008 the government stopped releasing statistics on black crime,
because facts are racist.
Post by Anthony Marsh
So, what does this have to do with the JFK assassination?
The deadheads and the Nazis won't get it.
It is known as an object lesson.
NEVER RELY on witnesses.
Maybe Oswald was guilty, maybe be was innocent, maybe he was framed.
But we'll never know for sure because he didn't get a fair trail.
It can be determined that Oswald killed Kennedy. Just not by everyone.
In case you haven't been here long I have to explain my tactic. It's
called Flushing out the Racists and Nazis. I intentionally post a story
which is about Nazis or racism to see who will push back against it as a
knee-jerk reflex defense of racism and Nazism.

A more nuanced poster might admit my points and agree with me that it is
deplorable, but then point out the statistics that the US is getting
better. Maybe the lower number of lynchings by the KKK.
OHLeeRedux
2017-08-13 02:42:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Anthony Marsh
On 8/10/2017 9:01 PM, Bud wrote:
- show quoted text -
In case you haven't been here long I have to explain my tactic. It's
called Flushing out the Racists and Nazis. I intentionally post a story
which is about Nazis or racism to see who will push back against it as a
knee-jerk reflex defense of racism and Nazism.



What a joke! The only reason anyone reads your posts is for a good laugh.
But keep telling yourself that you have any relevance at all. It keeps you
coming back for our entertainment.
Bud
2017-08-13 03:26:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Roslindale Man Convicted Of Murder Is Freed After 38 Years In Prison03:12
Play
August 08, 2017
Shannon Dooling
Share
A Roslindale man convicted of murder nearly 40 years ago is now free.
Frederick Clay was arrested two weeks after his 16th birthday and has
always maintained his innocence, even when it meant refusing a plea deal
to avoid a life sentence.
On Tuesday, his murder conviction was vacated, and Clay, now 53, walked
out of a Suffolk County courtroom a free man. Clay smiled and clapped as
he entered the lobby.
"Well, it's been a long time coming," he said. "It's been 38 years for
something I didn't do. I'm kind of overwhelmed and sort of nervous."
Clay told reporters that his lawyers and even other inmates continued to
encourage him throughout the appeals process.
"Never give up," he said. "You might lose some issues along the way but
you still got to maintain who you are and don't play politics with the
truth. Stick with the truth."
Clay was arrested in 1979 for the murder of Jeffrey Boyajian, a cab
driver who was shot to death while on the job in Roslindale. Two
eyewitnesses placed Clay at the scene and in 1981 he was convicted of
first-degree murder.
Lisa Kavanaugh, director of the Committee for Public Counsel Services
Innocence Program and Clay's attorney, said the witnesses confirmed her
client's identity only after being hypnotized, an identification method
that new research has largely debunked.
Kavanaugh said that much of the testimony used against Clay would not
stand up today in court.
"There were ... profound problems with both the circumstances with which
the witnesses were able to make their initial observations and also with
the way that the police handled the identification procedures,"
Kavanaugh said.
And the prosecution agrees.
Suffolk County District Attorney Daniel Conley's office re-investigated
Clay's case through its Conviction Integrity Program. Conley said he
doesn't know whether Clay is actually innocent but he does know that Clay
did not receive a fair trial.
"We discussed it, we studied it carefully, and at the end of the day, I
simply was not convinced that justice was done," Conley said.
Justice is all Jerry Boyajian said he and his family ever wanted for his
older brother Jeffrey, the victim of the murder. He said he and his
family are now trying to move on.
"I really feel that justice failed Mr. Clay and in that respect it also
failed my brother, but there was no point in, you know, continuing to
have Mr. Clay in prison," Boyajian said.
Now that he's a free man, Clay said he will focus on learning how to
live in a world he hasn't known for almost 40 years.
"I want to spend some time with my friends and just enjoy the moment,"
he said. "Have lunch, you know, I haven't had no steak and cheese sub in
quite a while so I want to enjoy that and just try to focus on what's
coming next."
He was greeted by applause and shared a hug with his lawyers and
supporters. Next, Clay heads to a transitional program in Lowell.
This segment aired on August 8, 2017.
__________________________________________
BTW, he BLACK.
Whenever a homicide is committed the odds are that a black man committed
the crime.
"Blacks committed 52 percent of homicides between 1980 and 2008."
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7441/7-statistics-you-need-know-about-black-black-crime-aaron-bandler#
In 2008 the government stopped releasing statistics on black crime,
because facts are racist.
Post by Anthony Marsh
So, what does this have to do with the JFK assassination?
The deadheads and the Nazis won't get it.
It is known as an object lesson.
NEVER RELY on witnesses.
Maybe Oswald was guilty, maybe be was innocent, maybe he was framed.
But we'll never know for sure because he didn't get a fair trail.
It can be determined that Oswald killed Kennedy. Just not by everyone.
In case you haven't been here long I have to explain my tactic. It's
called Flushing out the Racists and Nazis. I intentionally post a story
which is about Nazis or racism to see who will push back against it as a
knee-jerk reflex defense of racism and Nazism.
My tactic is to provide facts and context that push back against your liberal spin pieces. I interject truth, and liberals hate truth, they try to prevent anyone from speaking it. If they could, they would do what the Nazis did and ban truth.
Post by Anthony Marsh
A more nuanced poster might admit my points and agree with me that it is
deplorable,
It is always bad when an innocent man is wrongfully convicted. That his
conviction is because of his skin color is a claim you can`t support. I
can claim that if he was white he still be behind bars, as he wouldn`t
have liberals fighting for his release.

And I can`t be sure that any media outlet can provide me with the full
story, including all the facts, so I can make an informed decision. I
don`t know whether it was only the two hypnotized witnesses that led to
this man`s conviction. I don`t know the circumstances of the trial. I know
that hypnotism was a fad at one time, and was useful on occasion (probably
very rarely) to help people remember license plate numbers and whatnot. I
remember people being convicted on child abuse charges because hypnotism
turned up supposed "repressed memories" which turned out to be bogus. I
remember that all the cases I saw, it was white people being railroaded by
this pseudo-science. If Tony wants to make the case that hypnotism used to
convict people was racist he would need to produce all the cases where
people were convicted using it, not just one and jump to the conclusion it
was racism. But liberals don`t make arguments in an honest manner.
Post by Anthony Marsh
but then point out the statistics that the US is getting
better. Maybe the lower number of lynchings by the KKK.
Or point out that it isn`t the Klan killing blacks, it`s blacks.
John McAdams
2017-08-13 03:40:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Roslindale Man Convicted Of Murder Is Freed After 38 Years In Prison03:12
Play
August 08, 2017
In case you haven't been here long I have to explain my tactic. It's
called Flushing out the Racists and Nazis. I intentionally post a story
which is about Nazis or racism to see who will push back against it as a
knee-jerk reflex defense of racism and Nazism.
My tactic is to provide facts and context that push back against your
liberal spin pieces. I interject truth, and liberals hate truth, they try
to prevent anyone from speaking it. If they could, they would do what the
Nazis did and ban truth.
Which they have done on college campuses and in corporations like
Google.
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
A more nuanced poster might admit my points and agree with me that it is
deplorable,
It is always bad when an innocent man is wrongfully convicted. That his
conviction is because of his skin color is a claim you can`t support. I
can claim that if he was white he still be behind bars, as he wouldn`t
have liberals fighting for his release.
A highly plausible piece of speculation.
Post by Bud
And I can`t be sure that any media outlet can provide me with the full
story, including all the facts, so I can make an informed decision. I
don`t know whether it was only the two hypnotized witnesses that led to
this man`s conviction. I don`t know the circumstances of the trial. I know
that hypnotism was a fad at one time, and was useful on occasion (probably
very rarely) to help people remember license plate numbers and whatnot. I
remember people being convicted on child abuse charges because hypnotism
turned up supposed "repressed memories" which turned out to be bogus. I
remember that all the cases I saw, it was white people being railroaded by
this pseudo-science. If Tony wants to make the case that hypnotism used to
convict people was racist he would need to produce all the cases where
people were convicted using it, not just one and jump to the conclusion it
was racism. But liberals don`t make arguments in an honest manner.
Liberals believe they can cite a few cases of a cop who shot a black
guy that was unjustified and that proves that cops are a bunch of
racists shooting black with abandon for no reason.

Ironically, when liberals *try* this, it often backfires when the
facts come out, as in Ferguson, Charlotte, Milwaukee, Madison and a
bunch of other places.
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
but then point out the statistics that the US is getting
better. Maybe the lower number of lynchings by the KKK.
Or point out that it isn`t the Klan killing blacks, it`s blacks.
Yep.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/expanded-homicide-data/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2014.xls

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Bud
2017-08-14 02:16:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by John McAdams
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Roslindale Man Convicted Of Murder Is Freed After 38 Years In Prison03:12
Play
August 08, 2017
In case you haven't been here long I have to explain my tactic. It's
called Flushing out the Racists and Nazis. I intentionally post a story
which is about Nazis or racism to see who will push back against it as a
knee-jerk reflex defense of racism and Nazism.
My tactic is to provide facts and context that push back against your
liberal spin pieces. I interject truth, and liberals hate truth, they try
to prevent anyone from speaking it. If they could, they would do what the
Nazis did and ban truth.
Which they have done on college campuses and in corporations like
Google.
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
A more nuanced poster might admit my points and agree with me that it is
deplorable,
It is always bad when an innocent man is wrongfully convicted. That his
conviction is because of his skin color is a claim you can`t support. I
can claim that if he was white he still be behind bars, as he wouldn`t
have liberals fighting for his release.
A highly plausible piece of speculation.
Post by Bud
And I can`t be sure that any media outlet can provide me with the full
story, including all the facts, so I can make an informed decision. I
don`t know whether it was only the two hypnotized witnesses that led to
this man`s conviction. I don`t know the circumstances of the trial. I know
that hypnotism was a fad at one time, and was useful on occasion (probably
very rarely) to help people remember license plate numbers and whatnot. I
remember people being convicted on child abuse charges because hypnotism
turned up supposed "repressed memories" which turned out to be bogus. I
remember that all the cases I saw, it was white people being railroaded by
this pseudo-science. If Tony wants to make the case that hypnotism used to
convict people was racist he would need to produce all the cases where
people were convicted using it, not just one and jump to the conclusion it
was racism. But liberals don`t make arguments in an honest manner.
Liberals believe they can cite a few cases of a cop who shot a black
guy that was unjustified and that proves that cops are a bunch of
racists shooting black with abandon for no reason.
They have to create false narratives because they need racism to exist
to explain the failures of blacks. Look what Tony wrote in the header...
"Never rely on witnesses, especially when the police coach them". Nothing
in the article he produced said anything about police coaching witnesses,
he just creates that false narrative out of nothing. Just like his "When
was the last time a white guy was shot and killed for having a broken tail
light?" He just spouts nonsense and expects the myths he throws out there
to be considered the truth, because it is the reality that liberals have
created and are comfortable with. And anyone who speaks out against these
false narratives is labeled a racist.
Post by John McAdams
Ironically, when liberals *try* this, it often backfires when the
facts come out, as in Ferguson, Charlotte, Milwaukee, Madison and a
bunch of other places.
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
but then point out the statistics that the US is getting
better. Maybe the lower number of lynchings by the KKK.
Or point out that it isn`t the Klan killing blacks, it`s blacks.
Yep.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/expanded-homicide-data/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2014.xls
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-14 19:51:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bud
Post by John McAdams
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Roslindale Man Convicted Of Murder Is Freed After 38 Years In Prison03:12
Play
August 08, 2017
In case you haven't been here long I have to explain my tactic. It's
called Flushing out the Racists and Nazis. I intentionally post a story
which is about Nazis or racism to see who will push back against it as a
knee-jerk reflex defense of racism and Nazism.
My tactic is to provide facts and context that push back against your
liberal spin pieces. I interject truth, and liberals hate truth, they try
to prevent anyone from speaking it. If they could, they would do what the
Nazis did and ban truth.
Which they have done on college campuses and in corporations like
Google.
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
A more nuanced poster might admit my points and agree with me that it is
deplorable,
It is always bad when an innocent man is wrongfully convicted. That his
conviction is because of his skin color is a claim you can`t support. I
can claim that if he was white he still be behind bars, as he wouldn`t
have liberals fighting for his release.
A highly plausible piece of speculation.
Post by Bud
And I can`t be sure that any media outlet can provide me with the full
story, including all the facts, so I can make an informed decision. I
don`t know whether it was only the two hypnotized witnesses that led to
this man`s conviction. I don`t know the circumstances of the trial. I know
that hypnotism was a fad at one time, and was useful on occasion (probably
very rarely) to help people remember license plate numbers and whatnot. I
remember people being convicted on child abuse charges because hypnotism
turned up supposed "repressed memories" which turned out to be bogus. I
remember that all the cases I saw, it was white people being railroaded by
this pseudo-science. If Tony wants to make the case that hypnotism used to
convict people was racist he would need to produce all the cases where
people were convicted using it, not just one and jump to the conclusion it
was racism. But liberals don`t make arguments in an honest manner.
Liberals believe they can cite a few cases of a cop who shot a black
guy that was unjustified and that proves that cops are a bunch of
racists shooting black with abandon for no reason.
They have to create false narratives because they need racism to exist
Is that directly from the KKK?
Post by Bud
to explain the failures of blacks. Look what Tony wrote in the header...
"Never rely on witnesses, especially when the police coach them". Nothing
in the article he produced said anything about police coaching witnesses,
he just creates that false narrative out of nothing. Just like his "When
I have discussed it many times. Like the DPD telling Brennan which man
in the lineup was Oswald.
Post by Bud
was the last time a white guy was shot and killed for having a broken tail
light?" He just spouts nonsense and expects the myths he throws out there
And of course you can never answer my questions.
Post by Bud
to be considered the truth, because it is the reality that liberals have
created and are comfortable with. And anyone who speaks out against these
false narratives is labeled a racist.
Post by John McAdams
Ironically, when liberals *try* this, it often backfires when the
facts come out, as in Ferguson, Charlotte, Milwaukee, Madison and a
bunch of other places.
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
but then point out the statistics that the US is getting
better. Maybe the lower number of lynchings by the KKK.
Or point out that it isn`t the Klan killing blacks, it`s blacks.
Yep.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/expanded-homicide-data/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2014.xls
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Bud
2017-08-15 02:39:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
Post by John McAdams
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Roslindale Man Convicted Of Murder Is Freed After 38 Years In Prison03:12
Play
August 08, 2017
In case you haven't been here long I have to explain my tactic. It's
called Flushing out the Racists and Nazis. I intentionally post a story
which is about Nazis or racism to see who will push back against it as a
knee-jerk reflex defense of racism and Nazism.
My tactic is to provide facts and context that push back against your
liberal spin pieces. I interject truth, and liberals hate truth, they try
to prevent anyone from speaking it. If they could, they would do what the
Nazis did and ban truth.
Which they have done on college campuses and in corporations like
Google.
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
A more nuanced poster might admit my points and agree with me that it is
deplorable,
It is always bad when an innocent man is wrongfully convicted. That his
conviction is because of his skin color is a claim you can`t support. I
can claim that if he was white he still be behind bars, as he wouldn`t
have liberals fighting for his release.
A highly plausible piece of speculation.
Post by Bud
And I can`t be sure that any media outlet can provide me with the full
story, including all the facts, so I can make an informed decision. I
don`t know whether it was only the two hypnotized witnesses that led to
this man`s conviction. I don`t know the circumstances of the trial. I know
that hypnotism was a fad at one time, and was useful on occasion (probably
very rarely) to help people remember license plate numbers and whatnot. I
remember people being convicted on child abuse charges because hypnotism
turned up supposed "repressed memories" which turned out to be bogus. I
remember that all the cases I saw, it was white people being railroaded by
this pseudo-science. If Tony wants to make the case that hypnotism used to
convict people was racist he would need to produce all the cases where
people were convicted using it, not just one and jump to the conclusion it
was racism. But liberals don`t make arguments in an honest manner.
Liberals believe they can cite a few cases of a cop who shot a black
guy that was unjustified and that proves that cops are a bunch of
racists shooting black with abandon for no reason.
They have to create false narratives because they need racism to exist
Is that directly from the KKK?
The KKK is a liberal boogeyman. It hardly exist except in feverish leftist imagination.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
to explain the failures of blacks. Look what Tony wrote in the header...
"Never rely on witnesses, especially when the police coach them". Nothing
in the article he produced said anything about police coaching witnesses,
he just creates that false narrative out of nothing. Just like his "When
I have discussed it many times.
You put it in the header of this post. What in the article you produced
supports that the police coached the witnesses in this case?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Like the DPD telling Brennan which man
in the lineup was Oswald.
Another example of a false narrative.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
was the last time a white guy was shot and killed for having a broken tail
light?" He just spouts nonsense and expects the myths he throws out there
And of course you can never answer my questions.
Why would I answer a loaded question with no bearing in reality?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
to be considered the truth, because it is the reality that liberals have
created and are comfortable with. And anyone who speaks out against these
false narratives is labeled a racist.
Post by John McAdams
Ironically, when liberals *try* this, it often backfires when the
facts come out, as in Ferguson, Charlotte, Milwaukee, Madison and a
bunch of other places.
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
but then point out the statistics that the US is getting
better. Maybe the lower number of lynchings by the KKK.
Or point out that it isn`t the Klan killing blacks, it`s blacks.
Yep.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/expanded-homicide-data/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2014.xls
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-15 19:10:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
Post by John McAdams
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Roslindale Man Convicted Of Murder Is Freed After 38 Years In Prison03:12
Play
August 08, 2017
In case you haven't been here long I have to explain my tactic. It's
called Flushing out the Racists and Nazis. I intentionally post a story
which is about Nazis or racism to see who will push back against it as a
knee-jerk reflex defense of racism and Nazism.
My tactic is to provide facts and context that push back against your
liberal spin pieces. I interject truth, and liberals hate truth, they try
to prevent anyone from speaking it. If they could, they would do what the
Nazis did and ban truth.
Which they have done on college campuses and in corporations like
Google.
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
A more nuanced poster might admit my points and agree with me that it is
deplorable,
It is always bad when an innocent man is wrongfully convicted. That his
conviction is because of his skin color is a claim you can`t support. I
can claim that if he was white he still be behind bars, as he wouldn`t
have liberals fighting for his release.
A highly plausible piece of speculation.
Post by Bud
And I can`t be sure that any media outlet can provide me with the full
story, including all the facts, so I can make an informed decision. I
don`t know whether it was only the two hypnotized witnesses that led to
this man`s conviction. I don`t know the circumstances of the trial. I know
that hypnotism was a fad at one time, and was useful on occasion (probably
very rarely) to help people remember license plate numbers and whatnot. I
remember people being convicted on child abuse charges because hypnotism
turned up supposed "repressed memories" which turned out to be bogus. I
remember that all the cases I saw, it was white people being railroaded by
this pseudo-science. If Tony wants to make the case that hypnotism used to
convict people was racist he would need to produce all the cases where
people were convicted using it, not just one and jump to the conclusion it
was racism. But liberals don`t make arguments in an honest manner.
Liberals believe they can cite a few cases of a cop who shot a black
guy that was unjustified and that proves that cops are a bunch of
racists shooting black with abandon for no reason.
They have to create false narratives because they need racism to exist
Is that directly from the KKK?
The KKK is a liberal boogeyman. It hardly exist except in feverish leftist imagination.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
to explain the failures of blacks. Look what Tony wrote in the header...
"Never rely on witnesses, especially when the police coach them". Nothing
in the article he produced said anything about police coaching witnesses,
he just creates that false narrative out of nothing. Just like his "When
I have discussed it many times.
You put it in the header of this post. What in the article you produced
supports that the police coached the witnesses in this case?
I did not say in the article. I gave you several examples. So did
Loftus. So have others.
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Like the DPD telling Brennan which man
in the lineup was Oswald.
Another example of a false narrative.
A simple fact. Also the cops telling Jean Hill that she must be wrong
about hearing 4-6 shots.
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
was the last time a white guy was shot and killed for having a broken tail
light?" He just spouts nonsense and expects the myths he throws out there
And of course you can never answer my questions.
Why would I answer a loaded question with no bearing in reality?
What loaded question?
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
to be considered the truth, because it is the reality that liberals have
created and are comfortable with. And anyone who speaks out against these
false narratives is labeled a racist.
Post by John McAdams
Ironically, when liberals *try* this, it often backfires when the
facts come out, as in Ferguson, Charlotte, Milwaukee, Madison and a
bunch of other places.
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
but then point out the statistics that the US is getting
better. Maybe the lower number of lynchings by the KKK.
Or point out that it isn`t the Klan killing blacks, it`s blacks.
Yep.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/expanded-homicide-data/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2014.xls
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
John McAdams
2017-08-15 19:16:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 15 Aug 2017 15:10:55 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
Another example of a false narrative.
A simple fact. Also the cops telling Jean Hill that she must be wrong
about hearing 4-6 shots.
There is no evidence cops did that. In fact, they duly recorded that
testimony from her.

Jim Featherston said the following:

<Quote on>

Mrs. Hill told her story over and over again for television and radio.
Each time, she would embellish it a bit until her version began to sound
like Dodge City at high noon. . . . In the meantime, I had talked to other
witnesses and at one point I told Mrs. Hill she shouldn?t be saying some
of the things she was telling television and radio reporters. I was merely
trying to save her later embarrassment but she apparently attached
intrigue to my warning.

<end quote>

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Bud
2017-08-16 14:49:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
Post by John McAdams
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Roslindale Man Convicted Of Murder Is Freed After 38 Years In Prison03:12
Play
August 08, 2017
In case you haven't been here long I have to explain my tactic. It's
called Flushing out the Racists and Nazis. I intentionally post a story
which is about Nazis or racism to see who will push back against it as a
knee-jerk reflex defense of racism and Nazism.
My tactic is to provide facts and context that push back against your
liberal spin pieces. I interject truth, and liberals hate truth, they try
to prevent anyone from speaking it. If they could, they would do what the
Nazis did and ban truth.
Which they have done on college campuses and in corporations like
Google.
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
A more nuanced poster might admit my points and agree with me that it is
deplorable,
It is always bad when an innocent man is wrongfully convicted. That his
conviction is because of his skin color is a claim you can`t support. I
can claim that if he was white he still be behind bars, as he wouldn`t
have liberals fighting for his release.
A highly plausible piece of speculation.
Post by Bud
And I can`t be sure that any media outlet can provide me with the full
story, including all the facts, so I can make an informed decision. I
don`t know whether it was only the two hypnotized witnesses that led to
this man`s conviction. I don`t know the circumstances of the trial. I know
that hypnotism was a fad at one time, and was useful on occasion (probably
very rarely) to help people remember license plate numbers and whatnot. I
remember people being convicted on child abuse charges because hypnotism
turned up supposed "repressed memories" which turned out to be bogus. I
remember that all the cases I saw, it was white people being railroaded by
this pseudo-science. If Tony wants to make the case that hypnotism used to
convict people was racist he would need to produce all the cases where
people were convicted using it, not just one and jump to the conclusion it
was racism. But liberals don`t make arguments in an honest manner.
Liberals believe they can cite a few cases of a cop who shot a black
guy that was unjustified and that proves that cops are a bunch of
racists shooting black with abandon for no reason.
They have to create false narratives because they need racism to exist
Is that directly from the KKK?
The KKK is a liberal boogeyman. It hardly exist except in feverish leftist imagination.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
to explain the failures of blacks. Look what Tony wrote in the header...
"Never rely on witnesses, especially when the police coach them". Nothing
in the article he produced said anything about police coaching witnesses,
he just creates that false narrative out of nothing. Just like his "When
I have discussed it many times.
You put it in the header of this post. What in the article you produced
supports that the police coached the witnesses in this case?
I did not say in the article.
So it was a non sequitur.
Post by Anthony Marsh
I gave you several examples. So did
Loftus. So have others.
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Like the DPD telling Brennan which man
in the lineup was Oswald.
Another example of a false narrative.
A simple fact.
You create your own facts, your own mythologies and your own false
narratives.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Also the cops telling Jean Hill that she must be wrong
about hearing 4-6 shots.
Who told her she was wrong about a dog being in the limo? Who told her
she was wrong about the Secret Service returning fire?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
was the last time a white guy was shot and killed for having a broken tail
light?" He just spouts nonsense and expects the myths he throws out there
And of course you can never answer my questions.
Why would I answer a loaded question with no bearing in reality?
What loaded question?
The one I quoted you asking above.

"When was the last time a white guy was shot and killed for having a
broken tail light?"

Can you show where anyone has ever been killed for having a broken tail
light?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
to be considered the truth, because it is the reality that liberals have
created and are comfortable with. And anyone who speaks out against these
false narratives is labeled a racist.
Post by John McAdams
Ironically, when liberals *try* this, it often backfires when the
facts come out, as in Ferguson, Charlotte, Milwaukee, Madison and a
bunch of other places.
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
but then point out the statistics that the US is getting
better. Maybe the lower number of lynchings by the KKK.
Or point out that it isn`t the Klan killing blacks, it`s blacks.
Yep.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/expanded-homicide-data/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2014.xls
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-17 02:37:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
Post by John McAdams
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Roslindale Man Convicted Of Murder Is Freed After 38 Years In Prison03:12
Play
August 08, 2017
In case you haven't been here long I have to explain my tactic. It's
called Flushing out the Racists and Nazis. I intentionally post a story
which is about Nazis or racism to see who will push back against it as a
knee-jerk reflex defense of racism and Nazism.
My tactic is to provide facts and context that push back against your
liberal spin pieces. I interject truth, and liberals hate truth, they try
to prevent anyone from speaking it. If they could, they would do what the
Nazis did and ban truth.
Which they have done on college campuses and in corporations like
Google.
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
A more nuanced poster might admit my points and agree with me that it is
deplorable,
It is always bad when an innocent man is wrongfully convicted. That his
conviction is because of his skin color is a claim you can`t support. I
can claim that if he was white he still be behind bars, as he wouldn`t
have liberals fighting for his release.
A highly plausible piece of speculation.
Post by Bud
And I can`t be sure that any media outlet can provide me with the full
story, including all the facts, so I can make an informed decision. I
don`t know whether it was only the two hypnotized witnesses that led to
this man`s conviction. I don`t know the circumstances of the trial. I know
that hypnotism was a fad at one time, and was useful on occasion (probably
very rarely) to help people remember license plate numbers and whatnot. I
remember people being convicted on child abuse charges because hypnotism
turned up supposed "repressed memories" which turned out to be bogus. I
remember that all the cases I saw, it was white people being railroaded by
this pseudo-science. If Tony wants to make the case that hypnotism used to
convict people was racist he would need to produce all the cases where
people were convicted using it, not just one and jump to the conclusion it
was racism. But liberals don`t make arguments in an honest manner.
Liberals believe they can cite a few cases of a cop who shot a black
guy that was unjustified and that proves that cops are a bunch of
racists shooting black with abandon for no reason.
They have to create false narratives because they need racism to exist
Is that directly from the KKK?
The KKK is a liberal boogeyman. It hardly exist except in feverish leftist imagination.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
to explain the failures of blacks. Look what Tony wrote in the header...
"Never rely on witnesses, especially when the police coach them". Nothing
in the article he produced said anything about police coaching witnesses,
he just creates that false narrative out of nothing. Just like his "When
I have discussed it many times.
You put it in the header of this post. What in the article you produced
supports that the police coached the witnesses in this case?
I did not say in the article.
So it was a non sequitur.
No, YOU are a non sequitur. You can't follow an argument.
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
I gave you several examples. So did
Loftus. So have others.
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Like the DPD telling Brennan which man
in the lineup was Oswald.
Another example of a false narrative.
A simple fact.
You create your own facts, your own mythologies and your own false
narratives.
I back up what I say. All you do is make personal insults.
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Also the cops telling Jean Hill that she must be wrong
about hearing 4-6 shots.
Who told her she was wrong about a dog being in the limo? Who told her
she was wrong about the Secret Service returning fire?
Everybody. Even her husband. I never said she was a good witness.
I always warn people to never rely on witnesses.

Who said the SS returned fire? Do you remember who said the SS all
jumped out and ran to the TSBD? There are plenty of false memories to
spead around.
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
was the last time a white guy was shot and killed for having a broken tail
light?" He just spouts nonsense and expects the myths he throws out there
And of course you can never answer my questions.
Why would I answer a loaded question with no bearing in reality?
What loaded question?
The one I quoted you asking above.
It is not a loaded question. It does not include a false premise.
It is pointing out your hypocrisy. Only Nazis use false equivalency.
Post by Bud
"When was the last time a white guy was shot and killed for having a
broken tail light?"
Can you show where anyone has ever been killed for having a broken tail
light?
Duh, that is exactly what happened to one black driver.


Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
to be considered the truth, because it is the reality that liberals have
created and are comfortable with. And anyone who speaks out against these
false narratives is labeled a racist.
Post by John McAdams
Ironically, when liberals *try* this, it often backfires when the
facts come out, as in Ferguson, Charlotte, Milwaukee, Madison and a
bunch of other places.
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
but then point out the statistics that the US is getting
better. Maybe the lower number of lynchings by the KKK.
Or point out that it isn`t the Klan killing blacks, it`s blacks.
Yep.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/expanded-homicide-data/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2014.xls
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Bud
2017-08-17 18:30:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
Post by John McAdams
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Roslindale Man Convicted Of Murder Is Freed After 38 Years In Prison03:12
Play
August 08, 2017
In case you haven't been here long I have to explain my tactic. It's
called Flushing out the Racists and Nazis. I intentionally post a story
which is about Nazis or racism to see who will push back against it as a
knee-jerk reflex defense of racism and Nazism.
My tactic is to provide facts and context that push back against your
liberal spin pieces. I interject truth, and liberals hate truth, they try
to prevent anyone from speaking it. If they could, they would do what the
Nazis did and ban truth.
Which they have done on college campuses and in corporations like
Google.
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
A more nuanced poster might admit my points and agree with me that it is
deplorable,
It is always bad when an innocent man is wrongfully convicted. That his
conviction is because of his skin color is a claim you can`t support. I
can claim that if he was white he still be behind bars, as he wouldn`t
have liberals fighting for his release.
A highly plausible piece of speculation.
Post by Bud
And I can`t be sure that any media outlet can provide me with the full
story, including all the facts, so I can make an informed decision. I
don`t know whether it was only the two hypnotized witnesses that led to
this man`s conviction. I don`t know the circumstances of the trial. I know
that hypnotism was a fad at one time, and was useful on occasion (probably
very rarely) to help people remember license plate numbers and whatnot. I
remember people being convicted on child abuse charges because hypnotism
turned up supposed "repressed memories" which turned out to be bogus. I
remember that all the cases I saw, it was white people being railroaded by
this pseudo-science. If Tony wants to make the case that hypnotism used to
convict people was racist he would need to produce all the cases where
people were convicted using it, not just one and jump to the conclusion it
was racism. But liberals don`t make arguments in an honest manner.
Liberals believe they can cite a few cases of a cop who shot a black
guy that was unjustified and that proves that cops are a bunch of
racists shooting black with abandon for no reason.
They have to create false narratives because they need racism to exist
Is that directly from the KKK?
The KKK is a liberal boogeyman. It hardly exist except in feverish leftist imagination.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
to explain the failures of blacks. Look what Tony wrote in the header...
"Never rely on witnesses, especially when the police coach them". Nothing
in the article he produced said anything about police coaching witnesses,
he just creates that false narrative out of nothing. Just like his "When
I have discussed it many times.
You put it in the header of this post. What in the article you produced
supports that the police coached the witnesses in this case?
I did not say in the article.
So it was a non sequitur.
No, YOU are a non sequitur. You can't follow an argument.
You just admitted that what you wrote in the header had nothing to do
with the article you produced.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
I gave you several examples. So did
Loftus. So have others.
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Like the DPD telling Brennan which man
in the lineup was Oswald.
Another example of a false narrative.
A simple fact.
You create your own facts, your own mythologies and your own false
narratives.
I back up what I say.
Never.
Post by Anthony Marsh
All you do is make personal insults.
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Also the cops telling Jean Hill that she must be wrong
about hearing 4-6 shots.
Who told her she was wrong about a dog being in the limo? Who told her
she was wrong about the Secret Service returning fire?
Everybody. Even her husband.
So why is it bad if cops do this?
Post by Anthony Marsh
I never said she was a good witness.
I always warn people to never rely on witnesses.
Who said the SS returned fire? Do you remember who said the SS all
jumped out and ran to the TSBD? There are plenty of false memories to
spead around.
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
was the last time a white guy was shot and killed for having a broken tail
light?" He just spouts nonsense and expects the myths he throws out there
And of course you can never answer my questions.
Why would I answer a loaded question with no bearing in reality?
What loaded question?
The one I quoted you asking above.
It is not a loaded question. It does not include a false premise.
Show that anyone has ever been killed by a cop for having a broken tail
light.
Post by Anthony Marsh
It is pointing out your hypocrisy. Only Nazis use false equivalency.
Are you admitting to being a nazi?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
"When was the last time a white guy was shot and killed for having a
broken tail light?"
Can you show where anyone has ever been killed for having a broken tail
light?
Duh, that is exactly what happened to one black driver.
http://youtu.be/9zsuOCP0m1M
Silly. If the cop was going to shot him for having a broken tail light
he would have just walked up and shot him with no discussion. The broken
tail light was what caused the cop to make the stop, it wasn`t why he shot
the guy.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
to be considered the truth, because it is the reality that liberals have
created and are comfortable with. And anyone who speaks out against these
false narratives is labeled a racist.
Post by John McAdams
Ironically, when liberals *try* this, it often backfires when the
facts come out, as in Ferguson, Charlotte, Milwaukee, Madison and a
bunch of other places.
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
but then point out the statistics that the US is getting
better. Maybe the lower number of lynchings by the KKK.
Or point out that it isn`t the Klan killing blacks, it`s blacks.
Yep.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/expanded-homicide-data/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2014.xls
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-14 19:07:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by John McAdams
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Roslindale Man Convicted Of Murder Is Freed After 38 Years In Prison03:12
Play
August 08, 2017
In case you haven't been here long I have to explain my tactic. It's
called Flushing out the Racists and Nazis. I intentionally post a story
which is about Nazis or racism to see who will push back against it as a
knee-jerk reflex defense of racism and Nazism.
My tactic is to provide facts and context that push back against your
liberal spin pieces. I interject truth, and liberals hate truth, they try
to prevent anyone from speaking it. If they could, they would do what the
Nazis did and ban truth.
Which they have done on college campuses and in corporations like
Google.
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
A more nuanced poster might admit my points and agree with me that it is
deplorable,
It is always bad when an innocent man is wrongfully convicted. That his
conviction is because of his skin color is a claim you can`t support. I
can claim that if he was white he still be behind bars, as he wouldn`t
have liberals fighting for his release.
A highly plausible piece of speculation.
Have you ever heard of The Innocent Project? Maybe not. Can you Google
it? How many of their cases were about black people and how many were white?
"Nearly 70 percent of the 242 people exonerated by DNA testing to date
are people of color."
Post by John McAdams
Post by Bud
And I can`t be sure that any media outlet can provide me with the full
story, including all the facts, so I can make an informed decision. I
don`t know whether it was only the two hypnotized witnesses that led to
this man`s conviction. I don`t know the circumstances of the trial. I know
that hypnotism was a fad at one time, and was useful on occasion (probably
very rarely) to help people remember license plate numbers and whatnot. I
remember people being convicted on child abuse charges because hypnotism
turned up supposed "repressed memories" which turned out to be bogus. I
remember that all the cases I saw, it was white people being railroaded by
this pseudo-science. If Tony wants to make the case that hypnotism used to
convict people was racist he would need to produce all the cases where
people were convicted using it, not just one and jump to the conclusion it
was racism. But liberals don`t make arguments in an honest manner.
Liberals believe they can cite a few cases of a cop who shot a black
guy that was unjustified and that proves that cops are a bunch of
racists shooting black with abandon for no reason.
A few? Talk about cover-up. You have to cover-up everything, don't you?
Post by John McAdams
Ironically, when liberals *try* this, it often backfires when the
facts come out, as in Ferguson, Charlotte, Milwaukee, Madison and a
bunch of other places.
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
but then point out the statistics that the US is getting
better. Maybe the lower number of lynchings by the KKK.
Or point out that it isn`t the Klan killing blacks, it`s blacks.
Yep.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/expanded-homicide-data/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2014.xls
Every day that you post you reveal your bias.
Post by John McAdams
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-14 19:09:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
Roslindale Man Convicted Of Murder Is Freed After 38 Years In Prison03:12
Play
August 08, 2017
Shannon Dooling
Share
A Roslindale man convicted of murder nearly 40 years ago is now free.
Frederick Clay was arrested two weeks after his 16th birthday and has
always maintained his innocence, even when it meant refusing a plea deal
to avoid a life sentence.
On Tuesday, his murder conviction was vacated, and Clay, now 53, walked
out of a Suffolk County courtroom a free man. Clay smiled and clapped as
he entered the lobby.
"Well, it's been a long time coming," he said. "It's been 38 years for
something I didn't do. I'm kind of overwhelmed and sort of nervous."
Clay told reporters that his lawyers and even other inmates continued to
encourage him throughout the appeals process.
"Never give up," he said. "You might lose some issues along the way but
you still got to maintain who you are and don't play politics with the
truth. Stick with the truth."
Clay was arrested in 1979 for the murder of Jeffrey Boyajian, a cab
driver who was shot to death while on the job in Roslindale. Two
eyewitnesses placed Clay at the scene and in 1981 he was convicted of
first-degree murder.
Lisa Kavanaugh, director of the Committee for Public Counsel Services
Innocence Program and Clay's attorney, said the witnesses confirmed her
client's identity only after being hypnotized, an identification method
that new research has largely debunked.
Kavanaugh said that much of the testimony used against Clay would not
stand up today in court.
"There were ... profound problems with both the circumstances with which
the witnesses were able to make their initial observations and also with
the way that the police handled the identification procedures,"
Kavanaugh said.
And the prosecution agrees.
Suffolk County District Attorney Daniel Conley's office re-investigated
Clay's case through its Conviction Integrity Program. Conley said he
doesn't know whether Clay is actually innocent but he does know that Clay
did not receive a fair trial.
"We discussed it, we studied it carefully, and at the end of the day, I
simply was not convinced that justice was done," Conley said.
Justice is all Jerry Boyajian said he and his family ever wanted for his
older brother Jeffrey, the victim of the murder. He said he and his
family are now trying to move on.
"I really feel that justice failed Mr. Clay and in that respect it also
failed my brother, but there was no point in, you know, continuing to
have Mr. Clay in prison," Boyajian said.
Now that he's a free man, Clay said he will focus on learning how to
live in a world he hasn't known for almost 40 years.
"I want to spend some time with my friends and just enjoy the moment,"
he said. "Have lunch, you know, I haven't had no steak and cheese sub in
quite a while so I want to enjoy that and just try to focus on what's
coming next."
He was greeted by applause and shared a hug with his lawyers and
supporters. Next, Clay heads to a transitional program in Lowell.
This segment aired on August 8, 2017.
__________________________________________
BTW, he BLACK.
Whenever a homicide is committed the odds are that a black man committed
the crime.
"Blacks committed 52 percent of homicides between 1980 and 2008."
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7441/7-statistics-you-need-know-about-black-black-crime-aaron-bandler#
In 2008 the government stopped releasing statistics on black crime,
because facts are racist.
Post by Anthony Marsh
So, what does this have to do with the JFK assassination?
The deadheads and the Nazis won't get it.
It is known as an object lesson.
NEVER RELY on witnesses.
Maybe Oswald was guilty, maybe be was innocent, maybe he was framed.
But we'll never know for sure because he didn't get a fair trail.
It can be determined that Oswald killed Kennedy. Just not by everyone.
In case you haven't been here long I have to explain my tactic. It's
called Flushing out the Racists and Nazis. I intentionally post a story
which is about Nazis or racism to see who will push back against it as a
knee-jerk reflex defense of racism and Nazism.
My tactic is to provide facts and context that push back against your liberal spin pieces. I interject truth, and liberals hate truth, they try to prevent anyone from speaking it. If they could, they would do what the Nazis did and ban truth.
Post by Anthony Marsh
A more nuanced poster might admit my points and agree with me that it is
deplorable,
It is always bad when an innocent man is wrongfully convicted. That his
conviction is because of his skin color is a claim you can`t support. I
can claim that if he was white he still be behind bars, as he wouldn`t
have liberals fighting for his release.
False. The Innocence Project represents whites as well. But that find
that blacks are convicted unfairly more often.
Post by Bud
And I can`t be sure that any media outlet can provide me with the full
story, including all the facts, so I can make an informed decision. I
Exactly. That is why you have to look at several sites. Google can help.
Post by Bud
don`t know whether it was only the two hypnotized witnesses that led to
this man`s conviction. I don`t know the circumstances of the trial. I know
that hypnotism was a fad at one time, and was useful on occasion (probably
very rarely) to help people remember license plate numbers and whatnot. I
remember people being convicted on child abuse charges because hypnotism
turned up supposed "repressed memories" which turned out to be bogus. I
remember that all the cases I saw, it was white people being railroaded by
this pseudo-science. If Tony wants to make the case that hypnotism used to
convict people was racist he would need to produce all the cases where
people were convicted using it, not just one and jump to the conclusion it
was racism. But liberals don`t make arguments in an honest manner.
Sure, we can never know for sure, as the DA pointed out. But there was
enough wrong to cause a dismissal. Just like the OJ trial. You know he was
guilty, I know he was guilty, the jury knew he was guilty, but the
prosecution screwed up. You can know that someone is guilty, but you are
not allowed to beat or torture a confession out of him. Not just because
it is against the law, but also because it is not reliable.
Post by Bud
Post by Anthony Marsh
but then point out the statistics that the US is getting
better. Maybe the lower number of lynchings by the KKK.
Or point out that it isn`t the Klan killing blacks, it`s blacks.
OK, fine. Show me the cases of blacks lynching blacks.
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