Discussion:
The man who may have solved the JFK murder case, and doesn't even
(too old to reply)
Piotr Mancini
2018-08-09 23:01:08 UTC
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Meet Demetri Terzopoulos and his groundbreaking research:

http://web.cs.ucla.edu/~dt/
https://goo.gl/rdL5FA


For years, I had been Googling, reading about that vague research
category, with a big obstacle (who among us has not experienced that
frustrating limitation?): I could not put into words exactly what I needed
to find.

I had the idea that the sudden back snap could be meticulously
characterized, numerically, in order to determine the big question. The
only argument left for the WCR types -random neuromuscular reactions-
after the absurd Jet Effect has been swept under the rug: its previous
supporters are now ashamed of it.

Was Kennedy's body pushed or pulled?

I even wrote to a few research centers, I recall one in France, found it
in YouTube. They use Open Source software to perform Finite Element
Analysis which I figured was the way to. I was wrong. Close but no cigar.

One morning, after having my dose of caffeine, I typed some query and
yelled:

"Eureka! This is it! They have finally solved the problem that I need!"

Reading more, and finding a second paper by the same team "We started with
the mechanics of the head/neck and later added the torso" I shouted again:

"You may stop your research right now, since what you have is exactly
what I need!".

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/22877-this-is-how-the-frontal-shooter-or-lack-thereof-will-be-determined-in-an-incontrovertible-accurate-and-scientific-way/

[To be continued]

-Ramon
JFK Numbers
bigdog
2018-08-10 20:26:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Piotr Mancini
http://web.cs.ucla.edu/~dt/
https://goo.gl/rdL5FA
http://youtu.be/97UivL5PuEs
For years, I had been Googling, reading about that vague research
category, with a big obstacle (who among us has not experienced that
frustrating limitation?): I could not put into words exactly what I needed
to find.
I had the idea that the sudden back snap could be meticulously
characterized, numerically, in order to determine the big question. The
only argument left for the WCR types -random neuromuscular reactions-
after the absurd Jet Effect has been swept under the rug: its previous
supporters are now ashamed of it.
Was Kennedy's body pushed or pulled?
I even wrote to a few research centers, I recall one in France, found it
in YouTube. They use Open Source software to perform Finite Element
Analysis which I figured was the way to. I was wrong. Close but no cigar.
One morning, after having my dose of caffeine, I typed some query and
"Eureka! This is it! They have finally solved the problem that I need!"
Reading more, and finding a second paper by the same team "We started with
"You may stop your research right now, since what you have is exactly
what I need!".
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/22877-this-is-how-the-frontal-shooter-or-lack-thereof-will-be-determined-in-an-incontrovertible-accurate-and-scientific-way/
[To be continued]
-Ramon
JFK Numbers
Jet effect is real and is repeatable experimentally. It probably was not
the primary cause of JFK's rearward lurch but it does expose the myth that
the rearward movement was the result of a frontal shot.
Anthony Marsh
2018-08-12 16:12:42 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by bigdog
Post by Piotr Mancini
http://web.cs.ucla.edu/~dt/
https://goo.gl/rdL5FA
http://youtu.be/97UivL5PuEs
For years, I had been Googling, reading about that vague research
category, with a big obstacle (who among us has not experienced that
frustrating limitation?): I could not put into words exactly what I needed
to find.
I had the idea that the sudden back snap could be meticulously
characterized, numerically, in order to determine the big question. The
only argument left for the WCR types -random neuromuscular reactions-
after the absurd Jet Effect has been swept under the rug: its previous
supporters are now ashamed of it.
Was Kennedy's body pushed or pulled?
I even wrote to a few research centers, I recall one in France, found it
in YouTube. They use Open Source software to perform Finite Element
Analysis which I figured was the way to. I was wrong. Close but no cigar.
One morning, after having my dose of caffeine, I typed some query and
"Eureka! This is it! They have finally solved the problem that I need!"
Reading more, and finding a second paper by the same team "We started with
"You may stop your research right now, since what you have is exactly
what I need!".
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/22877-this-is-how-the-frontal-shooter-or-lack-thereof-will-be-determined-in-an-incontrovertible-accurate-and-scientific-way/
[To be continued]
-Ramon
JFK Numbers
Jet effect is real and is repeatable experimentally. It probably was not
the primary cause of JFK's rearward lurch but it does expose the myth that
the rearward movement was the result of a frontal shot.
Have you ever heard of inertia?
Have you ever seen videos of crashtest dummies?
Jason Burke
2018-08-10 20:28:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Piotr Mancini
http://web.cs.ucla.edu/~dt/
https://goo.gl/rdL5FA
http://youtu.be/97UivL5PuEs
For years, I had been Googling, reading about that vague research
category, with a big obstacle (who among us has not experienced that
frustrating limitation?): I could not put into words exactly what I needed
to find.
I had the idea that the sudden back snap could be meticulously
characterized, numerically, in order to determine the big question. The
only argument left for the WCR types -random neuromuscular reactions-
after the absurd Jet Effect has been swept under the rug: its previous
supporters are now ashamed of it.
Was Kennedy's body pushed or pulled?
I even wrote to a few research centers, I recall one in France, found it
in YouTube. They use Open Source software to perform Finite Element
Analysis which I figured was the way to. I was wrong. Close but no cigar.
One morning, after having my dose of caffeine, I typed some query and
"Eureka! This is it! They have finally solved the problem that I need!"
Reading more, and finding a second paper by the same team "We started with
"You may stop your research right now, since what you have is exactly
what I need!".
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/22877-this-is-how-the-frontal-shooter-or-lack-thereof-will-be-determined-in-an-incontrovertible-accurate-and-scientific-way/
[To be continued]
-Ramon
JFK Numbers
The case was solved within 24 hours.

Deal with it.
Travis Banger
2018-08-11 22:03:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jason Burke
Post by Piotr Mancini
http://web.cs.ucla.edu/~dt/
https://goo.gl/rdL5FA
http://youtu.be/97UivL5PuEs
For years, I had been Googling, reading about that vague research
category, with a big obstacle (who among us has not experienced that
frustrating limitation?): I could not put into words exactly what I needed
to find.
I had the idea that the sudden back snap could be meticulously
characterized, numerically, in order to determine the big question. The
only argument left for the WCR types -random neuromuscular reactions-
after the absurd Jet Effect has been swept under the rug: its previous
supporters are now ashamed of it.
Was Kennedy's body pushed or pulled?
I even wrote to a few research centers, I recall one in France, found it
in YouTube. They use Open Source software to perform Finite Element
Analysis which I figured was the way to. I was wrong. Close but no cigar.
One morning, after having my dose of caffeine, I typed some query and
"Eureka! This is it! They have finally solved the problem that I need!"
Reading more, and finding a second paper by the same team "We started with
"You may stop your research right now, since what you have is exactly
what I need!".
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/22877-this-is-how-the-frontal-shooter-or-lack-thereof-will-be-determined-in-an-incontrovertible-accurate-and-scientific-way/
[To be continued]
-Ramon
JFK Numbers
The case was solved within 24 hours.
Deal with it.
Jason:


It is my intention to show *scientifically*, in a incontrovertible way the
results from the numerical solutions, to some 320 million people (in one
country alone). A large percentage (those who believe in education,
science, logic and the power of numbers) should be persuaded once and for
all, of whatever side the results indicate: LN? CT?

You suggests that I (actually, my Pope and the other doctors, etc.) go to
the media:

[Cyril Wecht:] "The case was solved within 24 hours, it was LHO alone, 3
shots"

[Media, in a frenzy:] "Was that the result of your carefully planned,
multi-year investigations, with scheduled deliveries, carefully timed
disclosures, agreed upon with the Kennedys, involving research centers and
universities?"

[Cyril Wecht:} "Nah, that's too much work. A guy by the name 'Jason' with
substandard education, Trump supporter, said so in Usenet".

Look, I will take your proposal under advisement, and we'll get back to
you, okay?

-Ramon
JFK Numbers
Anthony Marsh
2018-08-12 16:12:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jason Burke
   http://web.cs.ucla.edu/~dt/
   https://goo.gl/rdL5FA
   http://youtu.be/97UivL5PuEs
For years, I had been Googling, reading about that vague research
category, with a big obstacle (who among us has not experienced that
frustrating limitation?): I could not put into words exactly what I needed
to find.
I had the idea that the sudden back snap could be meticulously
characterized, numerically, in order to determine the big question. The
only argument left for the WCR types -random neuromuscular reactions-
after the absurd Jet Effect has been swept under the rug: its previous
supporters are now ashamed of it.
       Was Kennedy's body pushed or pulled?
I even wrote to a few research centers, I recall one in France, found it
in YouTube. They use Open Source software to perform Finite Element
Analysis which I figured was the way to. I was wrong. Close but no cigar.
One morning, after having my dose of caffeine, I typed some query and
   "Eureka! This is it! They have finally solved the problem that I
need!"
Reading more, and finding a second paper by the same team "We started with
   "You may stop your research right now, since what you have is exactly
what I need!".
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/22877-this-is-how-the-frontal-shooter-or-lack-thereof-will-be-determined-in-an-incontrovertible-accurate-and-scientific-way/
[To be continued]
-Ramon
JFK Numbers
The case was solved within 24 hours.
Yes, they said it was a "Communist Conspiracy."
And you agreed with that? Or did you dissent?
Post by Jason Burke
Deal with it.
Anthony Marsh
2018-08-12 19:03:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jason Burke
   http://web.cs.ucla.edu/~dt/
   https://goo.gl/rdL5FA
   http://youtu.be/97UivL5PuEs
For years, I had been Googling, reading about that vague research
category, with a big obstacle (who among us has not experienced that
frustrating limitation?): I could not put into words exactly what I needed
to find.
I had the idea that the sudden back snap could be meticulously
characterized, numerically, in order to determine the big question. The
only argument left for the WCR types -random neuromuscular reactions-
after the absurd Jet Effect has been swept under the rug: its previous
supporters are now ashamed of it.
       Was Kennedy's body pushed or pulled?
I even wrote to a few research centers, I recall one in France, found it
in YouTube. They use Open Source software to perform Finite Element
Analysis which I figured was the way to. I was wrong. Close but no cigar.
One morning, after having my dose of caffeine, I typed some query and
   "Eureka! This is it! They have finally solved the problem that I
need!"
Reading more, and finding a second paper by the same team "We started with
   "You may stop your research right now, since what you have is exactly
what I need!".
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/22877-this-is-how-the-frontal-shooter-or-lack-thereof-will-be-determined-in-an-incontrovertible-accurate-and-scientific-way/
[To be continued]
-Ramon
JFK Numbers
The case was solved within 24 hours.
Deal with it.
So you're satisfied that they said conspiracy?
But they never got the chance to prove it. Can you?
Piotr Mancini
2018-08-11 04:18:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Piotr Mancini
http://web.cs.ucla.edu/~dt/
https://goo.gl/rdL5FA
http://youtu.be/97UivL5PuEs
For years, I had been Googling, reading about that vague research
category, with a big obstacle (who among us has not experienced that
frustrating limitation?): I could not put into words exactly what I needed
to find.
I had the idea that the sudden back snap could be meticulously
characterized, numerically, in order to determine the big question. The
only argument left for the WCR types -random neuromuscular reactions-
after the absurd Jet Effect has been swept under the rug: its previous
supporters are now ashamed of it.
Was Kennedy's body pushed or pulled?
I even wrote to a few research centers, I recall one in France, found it
in YouTube. They use Open Source software to perform Finite Element
Analysis which I figured was the way to. I was wrong. Close but no cigar.
One morning, after having my dose of caffeine, I typed some query and
"Eureka! This is it! They have finally solved the problem that I need!"
Reading more, and finding a second paper by the same team "We started with
"You may stop your research right now, since what you have is exactly
what I need!".
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/22877-this-is-how-the-frontal-shooter-or-lack-thereof-will-be-determined-in-an-incontrovertible-accurate-and-scientific-way/
[To be continued]
Okay, let's continue, then. From my little (admittedly, selfish)
corner/narrow point of view, after science has delivered exactly the tools
that I/we need, the discovery that I was praying for, I should be
celebrating, dancing on my desk, correct?

Well, not exactly. There's a rub.

I have contacted:

(a) Through the two people who offered help the JFK Numbers cause -the
Wechts- Oliver Stone.

(b) On my own, Richard Stallman, father of Free Open Source Software.

I have asked them to use their moral authority (bragging rights?), to try
to persuade Demetri Terzopoulos, the author of that research, a star in
the computer circles AND Hollywood to adapt his creation to analyze
whether the JFK movements was:

(1) Initiated from his own body/muscles.

(2) Initiated from an outside force

Yes, Tony, that is simplified. What is needed is to precisely characterize
the acting forces and their effects, through detailed simulations. This
discovery converts simulated physical forces into *movies*. We need the
opposite, to derive the forces from a *movie*. Can you say Z-film? (plus
photos, etc).

Here's an obvious potential problem:

Loading Image...

Did you notice those acronyms? There may be a conflict of interests. Is it
insurmountable?

The only way to know whether doctor Terzopoulos has any reservations is by
approaching him. I haven't dared: too many scientists have ran away at the
mention of the word "Kennedy". This is the type of big game target that is
best approached by a peer (hence, Richard Stallman) or person well known
in his milieu (hence, Ollie Stone).

There's another possibility. Notice that the seminal research was
coauthored by 3 investigators, in the following order:

Sung-Hee Lee, Eftychios Sifakis and Demetri Terzopoulos

I tracked down Lee, has been very active publishing, doing related
research (even into hair). See this German journal:

https://dblp.uni-trier.de/pers/hd/l/Lee:Sung=Hee

Perhaps he is the one that the JFK Community should approach?

-Ramon
JFK Numbers
Anthony Marsh
2018-08-12 19:03:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Piotr Mancini
Post by Piotr Mancini
http://web.cs.ucla.edu/~dt/
https://goo.gl/rdL5FA
http://youtu.be/97UivL5PuEs
For years, I had been Googling, reading about that vague research
category, with a big obstacle (who among us has not experienced that
frustrating limitation?): I could not put into words exactly what I needed
to find.
I had the idea that the sudden back snap could be meticulously
characterized, numerically, in order to determine the big question. The
only argument left for the WCR types -random neuromuscular reactions-
after the absurd Jet Effect has been swept under the rug: its previous
supporters are now ashamed of it.
Was Kennedy's body pushed or pulled?
I even wrote to a few research centers, I recall one in France, found it
in YouTube. They use Open Source software to perform Finite Element
Analysis which I figured was the way to. I was wrong. Close but no cigar.
One morning, after having my dose of caffeine, I typed some query and
"Eureka! This is it! They have finally solved the problem that I need!"
Reading more, and finding a second paper by the same team "We started with
"You may stop your research right now, since what you have is exactly
what I need!".
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/22877-this-is-how-the-frontal-shooter-or-lack-thereof-will-be-determined-in-an-incontrovertible-accurate-and-scientific-way/
[To be continued]
Okay, let's continue, then. From my little (admittedly, selfish)
corner/narrow point of view, after science has delivered exactly the tools
that I/we need, the discovery that I was praying for, I should be
celebrating, dancing on my desk, correct?
Well, not exactly. There's a rub.
(a) Through the two people who offered help the JFK Numbers cause -the
Wechts- Oliver Stone.
(b) On my own, Richard Stallman, father of Free Open Source Software.
I have asked them to use their moral authority (bragging rights?), to try
to persuade Demetri Terzopoulos, the author of that research, a star in
the computer circles AND Hollywood to adapt his creation to analyze
(1) Initiated from his own body/muscles.
(2) Initiated from an outside force
Which movements? When? You meed to be very specific.
You mean when he was getting in the limo? Or when he was brushing his
hair back? Smiling? Waving?
Post by Piotr Mancini
Yes, Tony, that is simplified. What is needed is to precisely characterize
the acting forces and their effects, through detailed simulations. This
discovery converts simulated physical forces into *movies*. We need the
opposite, to derive the forces from a *movie*. Can you say Z-film? (plus
photos, etc).
The photos help to amplify our understanding of the Zapruder film.
Once you know that the Moorman photo was taken just after the head shot
you can see that his head and been knocked up and back from his leaning
forward position before the shot.
I don't think a bullet from behind can do that unless it is some kind of
pendulum effect.
Post by Piotr Mancini
http://www.jfknumbers.org/~ramon/jfk/Terzopoulos-Sponsors.png
Did you notice those acronyms? There may be a conflict of interests. Is it
insurmountable?
The only way to know whether doctor Terzopoulos has any reservations is by
approaching him. I haven't dared: too many scientists have ran away at the
mention of the word "Kennedy". This is the type of big game target that is
best approached by a peer (hence, Richard Stallman) or person well known
in his milieu (hence, Ollie Stone).
There's another possibility. Notice that the seminal research was
Sung-Hee Lee, Eftychios Sifakis and Demetri Terzopoulos
I tracked down Lee, has been very active publishing, doing related
https://dblp.uni-trier.de/pers/hd/l/Lee:Sung=Hee
Perhaps he is the one that the JFK Community should approach?
-Ramon
JFK Numbers
Piotr Mancini
2018-08-11 22:08:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Subject: The man who may have solved the JFK murder case, and doesn't even
know it yet ...
Post by Piotr Mancini
http://web.cs.ucla.edu/~dt/
https://goo.gl/rdL5FA
http://youtu.be/97UivL5PuEs
For years, I had been Googling, reading about that vague research category,
I could not put into words exactly what I needed to find.
I had the idea that the sudden back snap could be meticulously
characterized, numerically, in order to determine the big question. The
only argument left for the WCR types -random neuromuscular reactions-
after the absurd Jet Effect has been swept under the rug: its previous
supporters are now ashamed of it.
Was Kennedy's body pushed or pulled?
I even wrote to a few research centers, I recall one in France, found it
in YouTube. They use Open Source software to perform Finite Element
Analysis which I figured was the way to. I was wrong. Close but no cigar.
"Eureka! This is it! They have finally solved the problem that I need!"
Reading more, and finding a second paper by the same team "We started with
"You may stop your research right now, since what you have is exactly what I need!".
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/22877-this-is-how-the-frontal-shooter-or-lack-thereof-will-be-determined-in-an-incontrovertible-accurate-and-scientific-way/
[To be continued]
They say "there's beauty in numbers" and the Terzopoulos problem is a
perfect exponent. Consider the two shots. If you are looking for a
solution that is devastating, an out-of-the-park grand slam, a knockout
which leaves no room for doubt: in which shot would you rather work? The
answer is trivially easy.

Assume you are far, far away and can barely see the 2 lines. You are given
the choice of problems. Which problem would you prefer to solve: one in
which the difference is a narrow angle? Or the other in which the
difference is almost 180 degrees (as wide as it can possibly get)?

Loading Image...

I keep on telling people about the back snap: The theory that claims that
it was Marilyn, trying to kill Jackie, from a flying saucer (obviously
piloted by Elvis) we can dismiss: it was either the front or the back. My
contention is that there is no mathematical model or actual empirical
experience that supports a shot from the back (subject to scientific
corroboration, of course). The same cannot be said about the SBT/MBT
problem: At the end, it may turn out to be undecidable. It is our
obligation to be prepared for that eventuality.

We engineers use the term "signal to noise ratio" or SNR. The fatal shot
provides a much higher value. You get more bang (intended) for your buck.
The reason the Zapruder film was sequestered was not the first shot: In
the fatal one, the SNR is so apparent that they had to hide it. Luckily,
they could not destroy it.

Back to Terzopoulos. The SNR is as high as you can get.

How many of you knew that there was another presidential trip to Dallas,
with precisely the same route but in *reverse* sequence? Here's a problem
for the lazy among us: we are given a set of evidence pieces: photos,
videos, press clippings, recordings, verbal accounts, etc. and the problem
is:

"To which of the 2 trips does this tall heap of evidence belong?"

This is not a needle in the proverbial haystack: It is a single hay blade
that we are after. All you need to find is ONE discovery: license plate,
sun shadow, person present, song playing in the radio ... and you
immediately declare proudly: "This was the FIRST trip!"

That is exactly the nature of the Terzopoulos "train of movement": any
slight indication will tell us which of the two opposite trips was being
taken by the presidential body.

Q.E.D.

-Ramon
JFK Numbers
Piotr Mancini
2018-08-13 06:07:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Piotr Mancini
Subject: The man who may have solved the JFK murder case, and doesn't even
know it yet ...
Post by Piotr Mancini
http://web.cs.ucla.edu/~dt/
https://goo.gl/rdL5FA
http://youtu.be/97UivL5PuEs
For years, I had been Googling, reading about that vague research category,
I could not put into words exactly what I needed to find.
I had the idea that the sudden back snap could be meticulously
characterized, numerically, in order to determine the big question. The
only argument left for the WCR types -random neuromuscular reactions-
after the absurd Jet Effect has been swept under the rug: its previous
supporters are now ashamed of it.
Was Kennedy's body pushed or pulled?
I even wrote to a few research centers, I recall one in France, found it
in YouTube. They use Open Source software to perform Finite Element
Analysis which I figured was the way to. I was wrong. Close but no cigar.
"Eureka! This is it! They have finally solved the problem that I need!"
Reading more, and finding a second paper by the same team "We started with
"You may stop your research right now, since what you have is exactly what I need!".
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/22877-this-is-how-the-frontal-shooter-or-lack-thereof-will-be-determined-in-an-incontrovertible-accurate-and-scientific-way/
[To be continued]
They say "there's beauty in numbers" and the Terzopoulos problem is a
perfect exponent. Consider the two shots. If you are looking for a
solution that is devastating, an out-of-the-park grand slam, a knockout
which leaves no room for doubt: in which shot would you rather work? The
answer is trivially easy.
Assume you are far, far away and can barely see the 2 lines. You are given
the choice of problems. Which problem would you prefer to solve: one in
which the difference is a narrow angle? Or the other in which the
difference is almost 180 degrees (as wide as it can possibly get)?
http://www.jfknumbers.org/~ramon/jfk/Which-Problem-is-Easier-to-Solve.png
Now that I think about it, next time I draw that diagram, on the SBT/MBT
side, I will put it upside down, with the corner of the angle up, in the
snipers' nest, and the sides 'A' and 'B' (one shot? two shots?) going
down.

When I produced that illustration, I was trying to make a point about the
superior ROI of the violent back snap vs. the SBT/MBT in the Education
Forum (controlled/censored by a Trump supporter) and our esteemed David
Lifton (*) was furious, declared radio silence on This Humble Servant of
the People.

-Ramon
JFK Numbers

(*) Surprisingly, Lifton is an engineer/physicist and yet is placing all
his eggs in the "mysterious witness" that he discovered basket. He will
have nothing to do with the solution of the JFK Numbers. He and Pat Speer
were the first people informed about my Terzopoulos finding. I am still
waiting to hear from either.

Anthony Marsh
2018-08-12 16:12:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Piotr Mancini
http://web.cs.ucla.edu/~dt/
https://goo.gl/rdL5FA
http://youtu.be/97UivL5PuEs
For years, I had been Googling, reading about that vague research
category, with a big obstacle (who among us has not experienced that
frustrating limitation?): I could not put into words exactly what I needed
to find.
I had the idea that the sudden back snap could be meticulously
characterized, numerically, in order to determine the big question. The
only argument left for the WCR types -random neuromuscular reactions-
after the absurd Jet Effect has been swept under the rug: its previous
supporters are now ashamed of it.
Was Kennedy's body pushed or pulled?
It's called inertia.
Post by Piotr Mancini
I even wrote to a few research centers, I recall one in France, found it
in YouTube. They use Open Source software to perform Finite Element
Analysis which I figured was the way to. I was wrong. Close but no cigar.
One morning, after having my dose of caffeine, I typed some query and
"Eureka! This is it! They have finally solved the problem that I need!"
Reading more, and finding a second paper by the same team "We started with
"You may stop your research right now, since what you have is exactly
what I need!".
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/22877-this-is-how-the-frontal-shooter-or-lack-thereof-will-be-determined-in-an-incontrovertible-accurate-and-scientific-way/
[To be continued]
-Ramon
JFK Numbers
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