Discussion:
Jarman in the Hughes film; no, actually, not in the Hughes
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donald willis
2018-05-26 23:51:44 UTC
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Isn't it curious that witness James Jarman appears in a frame blow-up of
the Hughes film, on page 207 of Groden's "The Killing of a President", but
not in a frame blow-up of the Hughes, on page 272 of Trask's "Pictures of
the Pain"? And the latter image is clearer than the former.... Now you
see him, now you don't. And you see him in the fuzzier picture!

dcw
bigdog
2018-05-28 00:06:15 UTC
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Post by donald willis
Isn't it curious that witness James Jarman appears in a frame blow-up of
the Hughes film, on page 207 of Groden's "The Killing of a President", but
not in a frame blow-up of the Hughes, on page 272 of Trask's "Pictures of
the Pain"? And the latter image is clearer than the former.... Now you
see him, now you don't. And you see him in the fuzzier picture!
So tell us which one you think is authentic.
donald willis
2018-05-28 20:32:37 UTC
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Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Isn't it curious that witness James Jarman appears in a frame blow-up of
the Hughes film, on page 207 of Groden's "The Killing of a President", but
not in a frame blow-up of the Hughes, on page 272 of Trask's "Pictures of
the Pain"? And the latter image is clearer than the former.... Now you
see him, now you don't. And you see him in the fuzzier picture!
So tell us which one you think is authentic.
Well, obviously, the one with him in the blow-up is NOT authentic.
Jarman's 11/23/63 affidavit says NOTHING about the fifth floor.

dcw
bigdog
2018-05-29 00:31:19 UTC
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Post by donald willis
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Isn't it curious that witness James Jarman appears in a frame blow-up of
the Hughes film, on page 207 of Groden's "The Killing of a President", but
not in a frame blow-up of the Hughes, on page 272 of Trask's "Pictures of
the Pain"? And the latter image is clearer than the former.... Now you
see him, now you don't. And you see him in the fuzzier picture!
So tell us which one you think is authentic.
Well, obviously, the one with him in the blow-up is NOT authentic.
Jarman's 11/23/63 affidavit says NOTHING about the fifth floor.
So are you accusing Groden of doctoring the frame?
donald willis
2018-05-30 02:09:43 UTC
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Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Isn't it curious that witness James Jarman appears in a frame blow-up of
the Hughes film, on page 207 of Groden's "The Killing of a President", but
not in a frame blow-up of the Hughes, on page 272 of Trask's "Pictures of
the Pain"? And the latter image is clearer than the former.... Now you
see him, now you don't. And you see him in the fuzzier picture!
So tell us which one you think is authentic.
Well, obviously, the one with him in the blow-up is NOT authentic.
Jarman's 11/23/63 affidavit says NOTHING about the fifth floor.
So are you accusing Groden of doctoring the frame?
No. Groden seems to credit Bronson for the reproduction. I'd say that
someone who handled the film in-between Bronson and Groden doctored it, if
indeed it was doctored.

I doubt if Groden altered many, if any, of the films/photos he got from
other sources. Hilariously, he actually used BOTH versions of the Dillard
wide-angle photo, without apparently realizing it--see pages 208 and 209
of "Killing..."

dcw
Anthony Marsh
2018-05-31 23:00:38 UTC
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Post by donald willis
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Isn't it curious that witness James Jarman appears in a frame blow-up of
the Hughes film, on page 207 of Groden's "The Killing of a President", but
not in a frame blow-up of the Hughes, on page 272 of Trask's "Pictures of
the Pain"? And the latter image is clearer than the former.... Now you
see him, now you don't. And you see him in the fuzzier picture!
So tell us which one you think is authentic.
Well, obviously, the one with him in the blow-up is NOT authentic.
Jarman's 11/23/63 affidavit says NOTHING about the fifth floor.
So are you accusing Groden of doctoring the frame?
No. Groden seems to credit Bronson for the reproduction. I'd say that
someone who handled the film in-between Bronson and Groden doctored it, if
indeed it was doctored.
I doubt if Groden altered many, if any, of the films/photos he got from
other sources. Hilariously, he actually used BOTH versions of the Dillard
wide-angle photo, without apparently realizing it--see pages 208 and 209
of "Killing..."
Well, he did draw up his own versions of some photos. Or rather a buddy
of his did for his books.
Post by donald willis
dcw
Anthony Marsh
2018-05-29 00:45:24 UTC
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Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Isn't it curious that witness James Jarman appears in a frame blow-up of
the Hughes film, on page 207 of Groden's "The Killing of a President", but
not in a frame blow-up of the Hughes, on page 272 of Trask's "Pictures of
the Pain"? And the latter image is clearer than the former.... Now you
see him, now you don't. And you see him in the fuzzier picture!
So tell us which one you think is authentic.
Interesting question. I guess you've never done any dark room work on
films or photos. If you have a negative and you make 3 prints, which print
it the authentic one? Maybe one is lighter, the other normal and the other
darker. So which is better? You don't know until you process and fix them.

Ever hear of the Zapruder film? When they went to make a positive print of
it the lab made 3 prints, varying the contrast, one lighter, one regular,
one darker. So which is authentic?
donald willis
2018-05-30 02:10:16 UTC
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Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Isn't it curious that witness James Jarman appears in a frame blow-up of
the Hughes film, on page 207 of Groden's "The Killing of a President", but
not in a frame blow-up of the Hughes, on page 272 of Trask's "Pictures of
the Pain"? And the latter image is clearer than the former.... Now you
see him, now you don't. And you see him in the fuzzier picture!
So tell us which one you think is authentic.
Interesting question. I guess you've never done any dark room work on
films or photos. If you have a negative and you make 3 prints, which print
it the authentic one? Maybe one is lighter, the other normal and the other
darker. So which is better? You don't know until you process and fix them.
True. At least in my own experience with store photo-machines. For
instance, yes, I lightened a photo, had it printed up, found out it was
TOO light, so did not "adjust" the next take....

dcw
BOZ
2018-05-28 00:11:28 UTC
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Post by donald willis
Isn't it curious that witness James Jarman appears in a frame blow-up of
the Hughes film, on page 207 of Groden's "The Killing of a President", but
not in a frame blow-up of the Hughes, on page 272 of Trask's "Pictures of
the Pain"? And the latter image is clearer than the former.... Now you
see him, now you don't. And you see him in the fuzzier picture!
dcw
WAS THAT JAMES JARMAN'S RIFLE ON THE 6TH FLOOR? DID JARMAN SHOOT TIPPIT?
WHY DON'T YOU FOCUS ON SOMETHING PERTINENT? I AM SO SICK OF YOUR BS.
donald willis
2018-05-28 20:32:13 UTC
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Post by BOZ
Post by donald willis
Isn't it curious that witness James Jarman appears in a frame blow-up of
the Hughes film, on page 207 of Groden's "The Killing of a President", but
not in a frame blow-up of the Hughes, on page 272 of Trask's "Pictures of
the Pain"? And the latter image is clearer than the former.... Now you
see him, now you don't. And you see him in the fuzzier picture!
dcw
WAS THAT JAMES JARMAN'S RIFLE ON THE 6TH FLOOR?
The ATF guy said it was found on a floor lower than the 6th.

DID JARMAN SHOOT TIPPIT?

Oswald didn't.

dcw
InsideSparta
2018-05-29 20:50:52 UTC
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Post by donald willis
Post by BOZ
Post by donald willis
Isn't it curious that witness James Jarman appears in a frame blow-up of
the Hughes film, on page 207 of Groden's "The Killing of a President", but
not in a frame blow-up of the Hughes, on page 272 of Trask's "Pictures of
the Pain"? And the latter image is clearer than the former.... Now you
see him, now you don't. And you see him in the fuzzier picture!
dcw
WAS THAT JAMES JARMAN'S RIFLE ON THE 6TH FLOOR?
The ATF guy said it was found on a floor lower than the 6th.
So, you want to believe one person, who in all likelihood got his floors mixed up, and choose to ignore the dozens of other individuals that witnessed the rifle being found on the 6th floor, and also ignore the film footage taken by Tom Alyea of the rifle being recovered on the 6th floor? Classic case of someone not seeing the forest because there's a tree in the way.
Post by donald willis
DID JARMAN SHOOT TIPPIT?
Oswald didn't.
Just stop your foolishness already. Seven eyewitnesses identified Oswald
as either being the gunman that killed Tippit or was the individual
fleeing the scene with a gun in his hand. The gun that fired the shells
that were found at the scene of the shooting, and were witnessed to have
been tossed to the ground by Oswald, was in Oswald's possession when
arrested at the Texas Theater, and it was proven to have been purchased by
Oswald under the known assumed name (A. Hidell) that Oswald used, and that
he was carrying a fake Selective Service card under when arrested. Oswald
also pulled that same gun on arresting officers in the Texas Theater and
squeezed the trigger. Not only is Oswald's guilt in the Tippit murder a
slam dunk case, had Oswald lived, it would have been the case that got him
executed by the State of Texas. You're more than welcome to make
statements that Oswald was innocent in the Tippit shooting, but you better
have some credible evidence to back it up, (and I'm not talking about
nitpicking and cherry picking witness testimony, which seems to be all you
have), otherwise you'll continue to look foolish on this site.
donald willis
2018-05-31 02:53:20 UTC
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Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Post by BOZ
Post by donald willis
Isn't it curious that witness James Jarman appears in a frame blow-up of
the Hughes film, on page 207 of Groden's "The Killing of a President", but
not in a frame blow-up of the Hughes, on page 272 of Trask's "Pictures of
the Pain"? And the latter image is clearer than the former.... Now you
see him, now you don't. And you see him in the fuzzier picture!
dcw
WAS THAT JAMES JARMAN'S RIFLE ON THE 6TH FLOOR?
The ATF guy said it was found on a floor lower than the 6th.
So, you want to believe one person, who in all likelihood got his floors mixed up, and choose to ignore the dozens of other individuals that witnessed the rifle being found on the 6th floor, and also ignore the film footage taken by Tom Alyea of the rifle being recovered on the 6th floor? Classic case of someone not seeing the forest because there's a tree in the way.
Other indications of a floor lower than the 6th:

12:37 DPD radio transmission saying a witness saw the shots come from the
"second window from the end". That window was NOT open on the 6th, was on
the 5th.

Several witnesses testifying that the shooter was at a wide open
window--Robert Jackson, Howard Brennan (!), Ronald Fischer, Robert
Edwards. Again, not the "sniper's nest" window; could be a window on the
5th floor below.

Reports the weekend of 11/22/63 from DPD Dets. Montgomery and partner,
stationed on the 6th floor circa 1:10 to 2:30. Neither heard anyone
shouting about the finding of a rifle, though one of them heard a DPD
vehicle radio from 6 floors below reporting Tippit's shooting--about the
same time the rifle was found. Apparently, on another floor!

The 5th-floor witnesses, all missing from the wide-angle photo (p67) in
the Warren Report. Amazing!

And isn't it possible that some of those witnesses who thought "sixth
floor" were themselves mixed up?
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
DID JARMAN SHOOT TIPPIT?
Oswald didn't.
Just stop your foolishness already. Seven eyewitnesses identified Oswald
as either being the gunman that killed Tippit or was the individual
fleeing the scene with a gun in his hand. The gun that fired the shells
that were found at the scene of the shooting, and were witnessed to have
been tossed to the ground by Oswald, was in Oswald's possession when
arrested at the Texas Theater, and it was proven to have been purchased by
Oswald under the known assumed name (A. Hidell) that Oswald used, and that
he was carrying a fake Selective Service card under when arrested. Oswald
also pulled that same gun on arresting officers in the Texas Theater and
squeezed the trigger. Not only is Oswald's guilt in the Tippit murder a
slam dunk case, had Oswald lived, it would have been the case that got him
executed by the State of Texas. You're more than welcome to make
statements that Oswald was innocent in the Tippit shooting, but you better
have some credible evidence to back it up, (and I'm not talking about
nitpicking and cherry picking witness testimony, which seems to be all you
have), otherwise you'll continue to look foolish on this site.
I have back-and-forthed with Bud on alt.conspiracy.jfk and here on the
Tippit shells, etc. Check those exchanges....

dcw
InsideSparta
2018-06-01 00:52:55 UTC
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Post by donald willis
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Post by BOZ
Post by donald willis
Isn't it curious that witness James Jarman appears in a frame blow-up of
the Hughes film, on page 207 of Groden's "The Killing of a President", but
not in a frame blow-up of the Hughes, on page 272 of Trask's "Pictures of
the Pain"? And the latter image is clearer than the former.... Now you
see him, now you don't. And you see him in the fuzzier picture!
dcw
WAS THAT JAMES JARMAN'S RIFLE ON THE 6TH FLOOR?
The ATF guy said it was found on a floor lower than the 6th.
So, you want to believe one person, who in all likelihood got his floors mixed up, and choose to ignore the dozens of other individuals that witnessed the rifle being found on the 6th floor, and also ignore the film footage taken by Tom Alyea of the rifle being recovered on the 6th floor? Classic case of someone not seeing the forest because there's a tree in the way.
12:37 DPD radio transmission saying a witness saw the shots come from the
"second window from the end". That window was NOT open on the 6th, was on
the 5th.
Several witnesses testifying that the shooter was at a wide open
window--Robert Jackson, Howard Brennan (!), Ronald Fischer, Robert
Edwards. Again, not the "sniper's nest" window; could be a window on the
5th floor below.
Reports the weekend of 11/22/63 from DPD Dets. Montgomery and partner,
stationed on the 6th floor circa 1:10 to 2:30. Neither heard anyone
shouting about the finding of a rifle, though one of them heard a DPD
vehicle radio from 6 floors below reporting Tippit's shooting--about the
same time the rifle was found. Apparently, on another floor!
The 5th-floor witnesses, all missing from the wide-angle photo (p67) in
the Warren Report. Amazing!
And isn't it possible that some of those witnesses who thought "sixth
floor" were themselves mixed up?
And here's where your tactics completely fall apart. You ignore all of the
evidence, testimony, and even news footage that proves the rifle was found
on the 6th floor, and you base it on whether or not the eyewitnesses
outside the TSBD building could either remember or took notice of whether
or not the window at the SE corner of the 6th floor was completely open or
not. And, no, it's not possible that ALL of the dozens of witnesses that
were on-hand in the TSBD building when the rifle was discovered were
"themselves mixed up" about which floor they were on. You're quite simply
being obtuse with regards to the facts of this case.
Post by donald willis
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
DID JARMAN SHOOT TIPPIT?
Oswald didn't.
Just stop your foolishness already. Seven eyewitnesses identified Oswald
as either being the gunman that killed Tippit or was the individual
fleeing the scene with a gun in his hand. The gun that fired the shells
that were found at the scene of the shooting, and were witnessed to have
been tossed to the ground by Oswald, was in Oswald's possession when
arrested at the Texas Theater, and it was proven to have been purchased by
Oswald under the known assumed name (A. Hidell) that Oswald used, and that
he was carrying a fake Selective Service card under when arrested. Oswald
also pulled that same gun on arresting officers in the Texas Theater and
squeezed the trigger. Not only is Oswald's guilt in the Tippit murder a
slam dunk case, had Oswald lived, it would have been the case that got him
executed by the State of Texas. You're more than welcome to make
statements that Oswald was innocent in the Tippit shooting, but you better
have some credible evidence to back it up, (and I'm not talking about
nitpicking and cherry picking witness testimony, which seems to be all you
have), otherwise you'll continue to look foolish on this site.
I have back-and-forthed with Bud on alt.conspiracy.jfk and here on the
Tippit shells, etc. Check those exchanges....
Why is it you CT people can't seem to defend your positions when you get
backed into a corner with the facts, and instead tell others to go find
the evidence that backs your opinion somewhere else? You want to come on
THIS site and make a claim that Oswald didn't shoot Tippit, yet you're too
lazy to back your position up with evidence (credible or not). Why bother
to come to this site at all? The shells are only one piece of the evidence
against Oswald. There's also the seven eyewitnesses that identified him,
his actions with regards to dumping his jacket behind the Texaco Station
on Jefferson Street between the site of the shooting and the Texas
Theater, and his actions when confronted by the DPD in the theater,
(trying to shoot Officer McDonald). You can nitpick the evidence to your
hearts content, but the overwhelming amount of evidence of Oswald's guilt
in the murder of Tippit overshadows any nitpicking you could dream up.
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-01 20:36:01 UTC
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Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Post by BOZ
Post by donald willis
Isn't it curious that witness James Jarman appears in a frame blow-up of
the Hughes film, on page 207 of Groden's "The Killing of a President", but
not in a frame blow-up of the Hughes, on page 272 of Trask's "Pictures of
the Pain"? And the latter image is clearer than the former.... Now you
see him, now you don't. And you see him in the fuzzier picture!
dcw
WAS THAT JAMES JARMAN'S RIFLE ON THE 6TH FLOOR?
The ATF guy said it was found on a floor lower than the 6th.
So, you want to believe one person, who in all likelihood got his floors mixed up, and choose to ignore the dozens of other individuals that witnessed the rifle being found on the 6th floor, and also ignore the film footage taken by Tom Alyea of the rifle being recovered on the 6th floor? Classic case of someone not seeing the forest because there's a tree in the way.
12:37 DPD radio transmission saying a witness saw the shots come from the
"second window from the end". That window was NOT open on the 6th, was on
the 5th.
Several witnesses testifying that the shooter was at a wide open
window--Robert Jackson, Howard Brennan (!), Ronald Fischer, Robert
Edwards. Again, not the "sniper's nest" window; could be a window on the
5th floor below.
Reports the weekend of 11/22/63 from DPD Dets. Montgomery and partner,
stationed on the 6th floor circa 1:10 to 2:30. Neither heard anyone
shouting about the finding of a rifle, though one of them heard a DPD
vehicle radio from 6 floors below reporting Tippit's shooting--about the
same time the rifle was found. Apparently, on another floor!
The 5th-floor witnesses, all missing from the wide-angle photo (p67) in
the Warren Report. Amazing!
And isn't it possible that some of those witnesses who thought "sixth
floor" were themselves mixed up?
And here's where your tactics completely fall apart. You ignore all of the
evidence, testimony, and even news footage that proves the rifle was found
on the 6th floor, and you base it on whether or not the eyewitnesses
outside the TSBD building could either remember or took notice of whether
or not the window at the SE corner of the 6th floor was completely open or
not. And, no, it's not possible that ALL of the dozens of witnesses that
were on-hand in the TSBD building when the rifle was discovered were
"themselves mixed up" about which floor they were on. You're quite simply
being obtuse with regards to the facts of this case.
Post by donald willis
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
DID JARMAN SHOOT TIPPIT?
Oswald didn't.
Just stop your foolishness already. Seven eyewitnesses identified Oswald
as either being the gunman that killed Tippit or was the individual
fleeing the scene with a gun in his hand. The gun that fired the shells
that were found at the scene of the shooting, and were witnessed to have
been tossed to the ground by Oswald, was in Oswald's possession when
arrested at the Texas Theater, and it was proven to have been purchased by
Oswald under the known assumed name (A. Hidell) that Oswald used, and that
he was carrying a fake Selective Service card under when arrested. Oswald
also pulled that same gun on arresting officers in the Texas Theater and
squeezed the trigger. Not only is Oswald's guilt in the Tippit murder a
slam dunk case, had Oswald lived, it would have been the case that got him
executed by the State of Texas. You're more than welcome to make
statements that Oswald was innocent in the Tippit shooting, but you better
have some credible evidence to back it up, (and I'm not talking about
nitpicking and cherry picking witness testimony, which seems to be all you
have), otherwise you'll continue to look foolish on this site.
I have back-and-forthed with Bud on alt.conspiracy.jfk and here on the
Tippit shells, etc. Check those exchanges....
Why is it you CT people can't seem to defend your positions when you get
backed into a corner with the facts, and instead tell others to go find
the evidence that backs your opinion somewhere else? You want to come on
THIS site and make a claim that Oswald didn't shoot Tippit, yet you're too
lazy to back your position up with evidence (credible or not). Why bother
to come to this site at all? The shells are only one piece of the evidence
against Oswald. There's also the seven eyewitnesses that identified him,
his actions with regards to dumping his jacket behind the Texaco Station
on Jefferson Street between the site of the shooting and the Texas
Theater, and his actions when confronted by the DPD in the theater,
(trying to shoot Officer McDonald). You can nitpick the evidence to your
hearts content, but the overwhelming amount of evidence of Oswald's guilt
in the murder of Tippit overshadows any nitpicking you could dream up.
In the real world just because someone says something does not make it a
fact.
InsideSparta
2018-06-03 18:43:38 UTC
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Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Post by BOZ
Post by donald willis
Isn't it curious that witness James Jarman appears in a frame blow-up of
the Hughes film, on page 207 of Groden's "The Killing of a President", but
not in a frame blow-up of the Hughes, on page 272 of Trask's "Pictures of
the Pain"? And the latter image is clearer than the former.... Now you
see him, now you don't. And you see him in the fuzzier picture!
dcw
WAS THAT JAMES JARMAN'S RIFLE ON THE 6TH FLOOR?
The ATF guy said it was found on a floor lower than the 6th.
So, you want to believe one person, who in all likelihood got his floors mixed up, and choose to ignore the dozens of other individuals that witnessed the rifle being found on the 6th floor, and also ignore the film footage taken by Tom Alyea of the rifle being recovered on the 6th floor? Classic case of someone not seeing the forest because there's a tree in the way.
12:37 DPD radio transmission saying a witness saw the shots come from the
"second window from the end". That window was NOT open on the 6th, was on
the 5th.
Several witnesses testifying that the shooter was at a wide open
window--Robert Jackson, Howard Brennan (!), Ronald Fischer, Robert
Edwards. Again, not the "sniper's nest" window; could be a window on the
5th floor below.
Reports the weekend of 11/22/63 from DPD Dets. Montgomery and partner,
stationed on the 6th floor circa 1:10 to 2:30. Neither heard anyone
shouting about the finding of a rifle, though one of them heard a DPD
vehicle radio from 6 floors below reporting Tippit's shooting--about the
same time the rifle was found. Apparently, on another floor!
The 5th-floor witnesses, all missing from the wide-angle photo (p67) in
the Warren Report. Amazing!
And isn't it possible that some of those witnesses who thought "sixth
floor" were themselves mixed up?
And here's where your tactics completely fall apart. You ignore all of the
evidence, testimony, and even news footage that proves the rifle was found
on the 6th floor, and you base it on whether or not the eyewitnesses
outside the TSBD building could either remember or took notice of whether
or not the window at the SE corner of the 6th floor was completely open or
not. And, no, it's not possible that ALL of the dozens of witnesses that
were on-hand in the TSBD building when the rifle was discovered were
"themselves mixed up" about which floor they were on. You're quite simply
being obtuse with regards to the facts of this case.
Post by donald willis
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
DID JARMAN SHOOT TIPPIT?
Oswald didn't.
Just stop your foolishness already. Seven eyewitnesses identified Oswald
as either being the gunman that killed Tippit or was the individual
fleeing the scene with a gun in his hand. The gun that fired the shells
that were found at the scene of the shooting, and were witnessed to have
been tossed to the ground by Oswald, was in Oswald's possession when
arrested at the Texas Theater, and it was proven to have been purchased by
Oswald under the known assumed name (A. Hidell) that Oswald used, and that
he was carrying a fake Selective Service card under when arrested. Oswald
also pulled that same gun on arresting officers in the Texas Theater and
squeezed the trigger. Not only is Oswald's guilt in the Tippit murder a
slam dunk case, had Oswald lived, it would have been the case that got him
executed by the State of Texas. You're more than welcome to make
statements that Oswald was innocent in the Tippit shooting, but you better
have some credible evidence to back it up, (and I'm not talking about
nitpicking and cherry picking witness testimony, which seems to be all you
have), otherwise you'll continue to look foolish on this site.
I have back-and-forthed with Bud on alt.conspiracy.jfk and here on the
Tippit shells, etc. Check those exchanges....
Why is it you CT people can't seem to defend your positions when you get
backed into a corner with the facts, and instead tell others to go find
the evidence that backs your opinion somewhere else? You want to come on
THIS site and make a claim that Oswald didn't shoot Tippit, yet you're too
lazy to back your position up with evidence (credible or not). Why bother
to come to this site at all? The shells are only one piece of the evidence
against Oswald. There's also the seven eyewitnesses that identified him,
his actions with regards to dumping his jacket behind the Texaco Station
on Jefferson Street between the site of the shooting and the Texas
Theater, and his actions when confronted by the DPD in the theater,
(trying to shoot Officer McDonald). You can nitpick the evidence to your
hearts content, but the overwhelming amount of evidence of Oswald's guilt
in the murder of Tippit overshadows any nitpicking you could dream up.
In the real world just because someone says something does not make it a
fact.
Something you prove every single day on this site.
donald willis
2018-06-02 00:48:14 UTC
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Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Post by BOZ
Post by donald willis
Isn't it curious that witness James Jarman appears in a frame blow-up of
the Hughes film, on page 207 of Groden's "The Killing of a President", but
not in a frame blow-up of the Hughes, on page 272 of Trask's "Pictures of
the Pain"? And the latter image is clearer than the former.... Now you
see him, now you don't. And you see him in the fuzzier picture!
dcw
WAS THAT JAMES JARMAN'S RIFLE ON THE 6TH FLOOR?
The ATF guy said it was found on a floor lower than the 6th.
So, you want to believe one person, who in all likelihood got his floors mixed up, and choose to ignore the dozens of other individuals that witnessed the rifle being found on the 6th floor, and also ignore the film footage taken by Tom Alyea of the rifle being recovered on the 6th floor? Classic case of someone not seeing the forest because there's a tree in the way.
12:37 DPD radio transmission saying a witness saw the shots come from the
"second window from the end". That window was NOT open on the 6th, was on
the 5th.
Several witnesses testifying that the shooter was at a wide open
window--Robert Jackson, Howard Brennan (!), Ronald Fischer, Robert
Edwards. Again, not the "sniper's nest" window; could be a window on the
5th floor below.
Reports the weekend of 11/22/63 from DPD Dets. Montgomery and partner,
stationed on the 6th floor circa 1:10 to 2:30. Neither heard anyone
shouting about the finding of a rifle, though one of them heard a DPD
vehicle radio from 6 floors below reporting Tippit's shooting--about the
same time the rifle was found. Apparently, on another floor!
The 5th-floor witnesses, all missing from the wide-angle photo (p67) in
the Warren Report. Amazing!
And isn't it possible that some of those witnesses who thought "sixth
floor" were themselves mixed up?
And here's where your tactics completely fall apart. You ignore all of the
evidence, testimony, and even news footage that proves the rifle was found
on the 6th floor, and you base it on whether or not the eyewitnesses
outside the TSBD building could either remember or took notice of whether
or not the window at the SE corner of the 6th floor was completely open or
not. And, no, it's not possible that ALL of the dozens of witnesses that
were on-hand in the TSBD building when the rifle was discovered were
"themselves mixed up" about which floor they were on. You're quite simply
being obtuse with regards to the facts of this case.
As I said, Det. Montgomery heard NOTHING on the 6th floor at the time that
the rifle was being found. And Patrolman Haygood--who (perhaps
feloniously) replaced Patrolman Hill at the hearings--is one of your 6th
floor witnesses to shells there, as per his testimony. But for the HSCA
he recalled seeing boxes and chicken, but NOT SHELLS, on the 6th floor!
How could he forget that most important piece of evidence and remember
much less important pieces???
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
DID JARMAN SHOOT TIPPIT?
Oswald didn't.
Just stop your foolishness already. Seven eyewitnesses identified Oswald
as either being the gunman that killed Tippit or was the individual
fleeing the scene with a gun in his hand. The gun that fired the shells
that were found at the scene of the shooting, and were witnessed to have
been tossed to the ground by Oswald, was in Oswald's possession when
arrested at the Texas Theater, and it was proven to have been purchased by
Oswald under the known assumed name (A. Hidell) that Oswald used, and that
he was carrying a fake Selective Service card under when arrested. Oswald
also pulled that same gun on arresting officers in the Texas Theater and
squeezed the trigger. Not only is Oswald's guilt in the Tippit murder a
slam dunk case, had Oswald lived, it would have been the case that got him
executed by the State of Texas. You're more than welcome to make
statements that Oswald was innocent in the Tippit shooting, but you better
have some credible evidence to back it up, (and I'm not talking about
nitpicking and cherry picking witness testimony, which seems to be all you
have), otherwise you'll continue to look foolish on this site.
I have back-and-forthed with Bud on alt.conspiracy.jfk and here on the
Tippit shells, etc. Check those exchanges....
Why is it you CT people can't seem to defend your positions when you get
backed into a corner with the facts, and instead tell others to go find
the evidence that backs your opinion somewhere else? You want to come on
THIS site and make a claim that Oswald didn't shoot Tippit, yet you're too
lazy to back your position up with evidence (credible or not).
I have, and if I had all the time in the world, as you seem to, I could
respond, at length, to every challenge.

Why bother
Post by InsideSparta
to come to this site at all? The shells are only one piece of the evidence
against Oswald. There's also the seven eyewitnesses that identified him
Okay. It took one of those witnesses, the cab driver Scoggins, some 24
hours to bring himself to ID Oswald, after traveling with the cops in
search of the actual perp, whom he apparently did not recognize in Oswald.
In other words, he somehow missed all 3 (THREE) lineups on Friday.
Perhaps he was still looking for the actual shooter....

Witness Markham has said, in an interview, that she last saw a gunman
heading down the alley off Patton; the cops said the guy went down
Jefferson, off Patton.

Witness Jimmy Burt agreed with her.

Witnesses Virginia & Barbara Davis called the police dispatcher a minute
or two later than the other civilian caller to dispatch, and Virginia
testified (6 or 7 times) that they called the cops first, then saw the
gunman. Taken together, those two facts suggest that the sisters-in-law
saw only someone with a gun chasing the actual shooter.

Witness Ted Callaway radioed the police about 1:20, but said nothing then
about seeing the perp or indicating in which direction he left the area.

,
Post by InsideSparta
his actions with regards to dumping his jacket behind the Texaco Station
on Jefferson Street between the site of the shooting and the Texas
Theater
Witness Warren Reynolds told the cops on 11/22/63 that the suspect he saw
was last headed in a direction OPPOSITE the Texaco parking lot. For the
Commission, he, like Haygood, did not tell the truth, and said he last saw
the guy headed towards the lot.

There's your fine witnesses!

dcw
InsideSparta
2018-06-03 18:43:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Post by BOZ
Post by donald willis
Isn't it curious that witness James Jarman appears in a frame blow-up of
the Hughes film, on page 207 of Groden's "The Killing of a President", but
not in a frame blow-up of the Hughes, on page 272 of Trask's "Pictures of
the Pain"? And the latter image is clearer than the former.... Now you
see him, now you don't. And you see him in the fuzzier picture!
dcw
WAS THAT JAMES JARMAN'S RIFLE ON THE 6TH FLOOR?
The ATF guy said it was found on a floor lower than the 6th.
So, you want to believe one person, who in all likelihood got his floors mixed up, and choose to ignore the dozens of other individuals that witnessed the rifle being found on the 6th floor, and also ignore the film footage taken by Tom Alyea of the rifle being recovered on the 6th floor? Classic case of someone not seeing the forest because there's a tree in the way.
12:37 DPD radio transmission saying a witness saw the shots come from the
"second window from the end". That window was NOT open on the 6th, was on
the 5th.
Several witnesses testifying that the shooter was at a wide open
window--Robert Jackson, Howard Brennan (!), Ronald Fischer, Robert
Edwards. Again, not the "sniper's nest" window; could be a window on the
5th floor below.
Reports the weekend of 11/22/63 from DPD Dets. Montgomery and partner,
stationed on the 6th floor circa 1:10 to 2:30. Neither heard anyone
shouting about the finding of a rifle, though one of them heard a DPD
vehicle radio from 6 floors below reporting Tippit's shooting--about the
same time the rifle was found. Apparently, on another floor!
The 5th-floor witnesses, all missing from the wide-angle photo (p67) in
the Warren Report. Amazing!
And isn't it possible that some of those witnesses who thought "sixth
floor" were themselves mixed up?
And here's where your tactics completely fall apart. You ignore all of the
evidence, testimony, and even news footage that proves the rifle was found
on the 6th floor, and you base it on whether or not the eyewitnesses
outside the TSBD building could either remember or took notice of whether
or not the window at the SE corner of the 6th floor was completely open or
not. And, no, it's not possible that ALL of the dozens of witnesses that
were on-hand in the TSBD building when the rifle was discovered were
"themselves mixed up" about which floor they were on. You're quite simply
being obtuse with regards to the facts of this case.
As I said, Det. Montgomery heard NOTHING on the 6th floor at the time that
the rifle was being found. And Patrolman Haygood--who (perhaps
feloniously) replaced Patrolman Hill at the hearings--is one of your 6th
floor witnesses to shells there, as per his testimony. But for the HSCA
he recalled seeing boxes and chicken, but NOT SHELLS, on the 6th floor!
How could he forget that most important piece of evidence and remember
much less important pieces???
You're cherry picking again, and ignoring all of the others, and the Tom
Alyea news footage, that shows the rifle was found on the 6th floor.
There's a forest of evidence out there, stop staring at a small cluster of
trees.
Post by donald willis
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
DID JARMAN SHOOT TIPPIT?
Oswald didn't.
Just stop your foolishness already. Seven eyewitnesses identified Oswald
as either being the gunman that killed Tippit or was the individual
fleeing the scene with a gun in his hand. The gun that fired the shells
that were found at the scene of the shooting, and were witnessed to have
been tossed to the ground by Oswald, was in Oswald's possession when
arrested at the Texas Theater, and it was proven to have been purchased by
Oswald under the known assumed name (A. Hidell) that Oswald used, and that
he was carrying a fake Selective Service card under when arrested. Oswald
also pulled that same gun on arresting officers in the Texas Theater and
squeezed the trigger. Not only is Oswald's guilt in the Tippit murder a
slam dunk case, had Oswald lived, it would have been the case that got him
executed by the State of Texas. You're more than welcome to make
statements that Oswald was innocent in the Tippit shooting, but you better
have some credible evidence to back it up, (and I'm not talking about
nitpicking and cherry picking witness testimony, which seems to be all you
have), otherwise you'll continue to look foolish on this site.
I have back-and-forthed with Bud on alt.conspiracy.jfk and here on the
Tippit shells, etc. Check those exchanges....
Why is it you CT people can't seem to defend your positions when you get
backed into a corner with the facts, and instead tell others to go find
the evidence that backs your opinion somewhere else? You want to come on
THIS site and make a claim that Oswald didn't shoot Tippit, yet you're too
lazy to back your position up with evidence (credible or not).
I have, and if I had all the time in the world, as you seem to, I could
respond, at length, to every challenge.
Why bother
Post by InsideSparta
to come to this site at all? The shells are only one piece of the evidence
against Oswald. There's also the seven eyewitnesses that identified him
Okay. It took one of those witnesses, the cab driver Scoggins, some 24
hours to bring himself to ID Oswald, after traveling with the cops in
search of the actual perp, whom he apparently did not recognize in Oswald.
In other words, he somehow missed all 3 (THREE) lineups on Friday.
Perhaps he was still looking for the actual shooter....
Scoggins actually traveled around with witness Ted Callaway, who he
mistook for a police officer. They both testified that they jumped into
Scoggins' cab, and drove around looking for him. Callaway, in his WC
testimony, spoke about the brief search....

Mr. BALL. What did you do?
Mr. CALLAWAY. I picked the gun up and laid it on the hood of the squad
car, and then someone put it in the front seat of the squad car. Then
after I helped load Officer Tippit in the ambulance, I got the gun out of
the car and told this cabdriver, I said, "You saw the guy didn't you?" He
said, yes.


I said, "If he is going up Jefferson, he can't be very far. Let's see if
we can find him." So I went with Scoggins in the taxicab, went up to 10th,
Crawford, from Crawford up to Jefferson, and down Jefferson to Beckley.
And we turned on Beckley. If we had kept going up Jefferson, we
probably--there is a good chance we would have seen him, because he was
headed right towards the Texas Theatre. But then we circled around several
blocks, and ended up coming back to where it happened.

Scoggins positively identified Oswald in the line-up on 11/23/63, and
confirmed that identification under oath in his WC testimony. You ignore
that, and instead try to make hay regarding his not attending a line up
until the next day.
Post by donald willis
Witness Markham has said, in an interview, that she last saw a gunman
heading down the alley off Patton; the cops said the guy went down
Jefferson, off Patton.
Whether he reached Jefferson by cutting through the alley, or went all the
way to the corner of Patton and Jefferson is neither hear nor there. We
know he reached Jefferson. Sam Guinyard also testified that Oswald went
down the alley off of Patton (which was a westward direction, towards the
Texaco station and the Texas Theater).
Post by donald willis
Witness Jimmy Burt agreed with her.
Witnesses Virginia & Barbara Davis called the police dispatcher a minute
or two later than the other civilian caller to dispatch, and Virginia
testified (6 or 7 times) that they called the cops first, then saw the
gunman. Taken together, those two facts suggest that the sisters-in-law
saw only someone with a gun chasing the actual shooter.
Barbara Davis testified that the call was made AFTER she saw Oswald run
across the front lawn, emptying his pistol. Since, as you indicated, the
call from the Davis household was made 1 minute later than the civilian
radio dispatch, clearly Virginia Davis' testimony is in error. You choose
to accept Virginia's testimony, even though it has no corroboration with
the facts, unlike Barbara's testimony. More cherry picking on your part.
Post by donald willis
Witness Ted Callaway radioed the police about 1:20, but said nothing then
about seeing the perp or indicating in which direction he left the area.
So what? Callaway was reporting an officer down, and was abruptly told to
stay off of the airwaves.
Post by donald willis
,
Post by InsideSparta
his actions with regards to dumping his jacket behind the Texaco Station
on Jefferson Street between the site of the shooting and the Texas
Theater
Witness Warren Reynolds told the cops on 11/22/63 that the suspect he saw
was last headed in a direction OPPOSITE the Texaco parking lot. For the
Commission, he, like Haygood, did not tell the truth, and said he last saw
the guy headed towards the lot.
Reynolds indicated in his FBI interview that the suspect headed WEST on
Jefferson. He even told the FBI that he saw Oswald duck behind the Texaco
Station, which was west of Patton. His statement was corroborated by the
woman at the Texaco Station that saw the fleeing suspect duck behind the
building (where Oswald's jacket was later found). Here's Reynolds' WC
testimony as to which direction Oswald went on Jefferson....

Mr. LIEBELER. Tell us what you saw; will you, please?
Mr.REYNOLDS. OK; our office is up high where I can have a pretty good view
of what was going on. I heard the shots and, when I heard the shots, I
went out on this front porch which is, like I say, high, and I saw this
man coming down the street with the gun in his hand, swinging it just like
he was running. He turned the corner of Patton and Jefferson, going west,
and put the gun in his pants and took off, walking.
Mr. LIEBELER. Were you able to identify this man in your own mind?
Mr.REYNOLDS. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. You did identify him as Lee Harvey Oswald in your own mind?
Mr.REYNOLDS. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. You had no question about it?
Mr.REYNOLDS. No.

So, you want to ignore his FBI interview and sworn testimony, and go with
what a DPD wrote down (which could very well have been in error) and try
and claim the perpetrator went east on Jefferson? Or, are you grasping at
straws to try and invalidate Reynolds testimony because someone clearly
mistook east and west in the excitement of the situation? Do you have any
corroborating evidence of perpetrator heading east?
Post by donald willis
There's your fine witnesses!
Where are your witnesses? Acquilla Clemmons, perhaps?
Post by donald willis
dcw
donald willis
2018-06-04 19:40:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Post by BOZ
Post by donald willis
Isn't it curious that witness James Jarman appears in a frame blow-up of
the Hughes film, on page 207 of Groden's "The Killing of a President", but
not in a frame blow-up of the Hughes, on page 272 of Trask's "Pictures of
the Pain"? And the latter image is clearer than the former.... Now you
see him, now you don't. And you see him in the fuzzier picture!
dcw
WAS THAT JAMES JARMAN'S RIFLE ON THE 6TH FLOOR?
The ATF guy said it was found on a floor lower than the 6th.
So, you want to believe one person, who in all likelihood got his floors mixed up, and choose to ignore the dozens of other individuals that witnessed the rifle being found on the 6th floor, and also ignore the film footage taken by Tom Alyea of the rifle being recovered on the 6th floor? Classic case of someone not seeing the forest because there's a tree in the way.
12:37 DPD radio transmission saying a witness saw the shots come from the
"second window from the end". That window was NOT open on the 6th, was on
the 5th.
Several witnesses testifying that the shooter was at a wide open
window--Robert Jackson, Howard Brennan (!), Ronald Fischer, Robert
Edwards. Again, not the "sniper's nest" window; could be a window on the
5th floor below.
Reports the weekend of 11/22/63 from DPD Dets. Montgomery and partner,
stationed on the 6th floor circa 1:10 to 2:30. Neither heard anyone
shouting about the finding of a rifle, though one of them heard a DPD
vehicle radio from 6 floors below reporting Tippit's shooting--about the
same time the rifle was found. Apparently, on another floor!
The 5th-floor witnesses, all missing from the wide-angle photo (p67) in
the Warren Report. Amazing!
And isn't it possible that some of those witnesses who thought "sixth
floor" were themselves mixed up?
And here's where your tactics completely fall apart. You ignore all of the
evidence, testimony, and even news footage that proves the rifle was found
on the 6th floor, and you base it on whether or not the eyewitnesses
outside the TSBD building could either remember or took notice of whether
or not the window at the SE corner of the 6th floor was completely open or
not. And, no, it's not possible that ALL of the dozens of witnesses that
were on-hand in the TSBD building when the rifle was discovered were
"themselves mixed up" about which floor they were on. You're quite simply
being obtuse with regards to the facts of this case.
As I said, Det. Montgomery heard NOTHING on the 6th floor at the time that
the rifle was being found. And Patrolman Haygood--who (perhaps
feloniously) replaced Patrolman Hill at the hearings--is one of your 6th
floor witnesses to shells there, as per his testimony. But for the HSCA
he recalled seeing boxes and chicken, but NOT SHELLS, on the 6th floor!
How could he forget that most important piece of evidence and remember
much less important pieces???
You're cherry picking again, and ignoring all of the others, and the Tom
Alyea news footage, that shows the rifle was found on the 6th floor.
How do you know it was the 6th floor? One poster here, Walt Cakebread,
posted that the flooring was wrong for it to be the 6th floor, on that
side. (Re-flooring was going on, you recall.)
Post by InsideSparta
There's a forest of evidence out there, stop staring at a small cluster of
trees.
There's a forest of evidence to the contrary, too.
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
DID JARMAN SHOOT TIPPIT?
Oswald didn't.
Just stop your foolishness already. Seven eyewitnesses identified Oswald
as either being the gunman that killed Tippit or was the individual
fleeing the scene with a gun in his hand. The gun that fired the shells
that were found at the scene of the shooting, and were witnessed to have
been tossed to the ground by Oswald, was in Oswald's possession when
arrested at the Texas Theater, and it was proven to have been purchased by
Oswald under the known assumed name (A. Hidell) that Oswald used, and that
he was carrying a fake Selective Service card under when arrested. Oswald
also pulled that same gun on arresting officers in the Texas Theater and
squeezed the trigger. Not only is Oswald's guilt in the Tippit murder a
slam dunk case, had Oswald lived, it would have been the case that got him
executed by the State of Texas. You're more than welcome to make
statements that Oswald was innocent in the Tippit shooting, but you better
have some credible evidence to back it up, (and I'm not talking about
nitpicking and cherry picking witness testimony, which seems to be all you
have), otherwise you'll continue to look foolish on this site.
I have back-and-forthed with Bud on alt.conspiracy.jfk and here on the
Tippit shells, etc. Check those exchanges....
Why is it you CT people can't seem to defend your positions when you get
backed into a corner with the facts, and instead tell others to go find
the evidence that backs your opinion somewhere else? You want to come on
THIS site and make a claim that Oswald didn't shoot Tippit, yet you're too
lazy to back your position up with evidence (credible or not).
I have, and if I had all the time in the world, as you seem to, I could
respond, at length, to every challenge.
Why bother
Post by InsideSparta
to come to this site at all? The shells are only one piece of the evidence
against Oswald. There's also the seven eyewitnesses that identified him
Okay. It took one of those witnesses, the cab driver Scoggins, some 24
hours to bring himself to ID Oswald, after traveling with the cops in
search of the actual perp, whom he apparently did not recognize in Oswald.
In other words, he somehow missed all 3 (THREE) lineups on Friday.
Perhaps he was still looking for the actual shooter....
Scoggins actually traveled around with witness Ted Callaway, who he
mistook for a police officer. They both testified that they jumped into
Scoggins' cab, and drove around looking for him. Callaway, in his WC
testimony, spoke about the brief search....
Mr. BALL. What did you do?
Mr. CALLAWAY. I picked the gun up and laid it on the hood of the squad
car, and then someone put it in the front seat of the squad car. Then
after I helped load Officer Tippit in the ambulance, I got the gun out of
the car and told this cabdriver, I said, "You saw the guy didn't you?" He
said, yes.
I said, "If he is going up Jefferson, he can't be very far. Let's see if
we can find him." So I went with Scoggins in the taxicab, went up to 10th,
Crawford, from Crawford up to Jefferson, and down Jefferson to Beckley.
And we turned on Beckley. If we had kept going up Jefferson, we
probably--there is a good chance we would have seen him, because he was
headed right towards the Texas Theatre. But then we circled around several
blocks, and ended up coming back to where it happened.
Scoggins positively identified Oswald in the line-up on 11/23/63, and
confirmed that identification under oath in his WC testimony. You ignore
that, and instead try to make hay regarding his not attending a line up
until the next day.
It's those little unexplainable (to CTers) things which cry, "Cover-up!"
A witness who traveled with another civilian witness in pursuit of the
perp, then traveled around, again, with the police, a witness who said
that he talked with Tippit every day--that witness is going to wait till
Saturday to ID the perp! You're thinking of another planet....
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Witness Markham has said, in an interview, that she last saw a gunman
heading down the alley off Patton; the cops said the guy went down
Jefferson, off Patton.
Whether he reached Jefferson by cutting through the alley, or went all the
way to the corner of Patton and Jefferson is neither hear nor there.
Gee, can you provide me your source for blinders?

We
Post by InsideSparta
know he reached Jefferson. Sam Guinyard also testified that Oswald went
down the alley off of Patton
No, I don't believe that he did. In fact, his testimony was, I believe,
to the effect that the gunman stayed on the east side of the street until
he had almost reached Jefferson. Callaway testified that the gunman went
across the street almost as soon as he reached Patton. Neither, I
believe, said that he went down the alley....

(which was a westward direction, towards the
Post by InsideSparta
Texaco station and the Texas Theater).
Post by donald willis
Witness Jimmy Burt agreed with her.
Witnesses Virginia & Barbara Davis called the police dispatcher a minute
or two later than the other civilian caller to dispatch, and Virginia
testified (6 or 7 times) that they called the cops first, then saw the
gunman. Taken together, those two facts suggest that the sisters-in-law
saw only someone with a gun chasing the actual shooter.
Barbara Davis testified that the call was made AFTER she saw Oswald run
across the front lawn, emptying his pistol. Since, as you indicated, the
call from the Davis household was made 1 minute later than the civilian
radio dispatch, clearly Virginia Davis' testimony is in error.
Go with that. In which case, then, the Davises saw only the man with
Tippit's gun.

You choose
Post by InsideSparta
to accept Virginia's testimony, even though it has no corroboration with
the facts, unlike Barbara's testimony. More cherry picking on your part.
Post by donald willis
Witness Ted Callaway radioed the police about 1:20, but said nothing then
about seeing the perp or indicating in which direction he left the area.
So what? Callaway was reporting an officer down, and was abruptly told to
stay off of the airwaves.
Because that was all that he had to report. I'd think he would have
wanted to first report that he saw someone with a gun leaving the scene of
the crime. But no....
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
,
Post by InsideSparta
his actions with regards to dumping his jacket behind the Texaco Station
on Jefferson Street between the site of the shooting and the Texas
Theater
Witness Warren Reynolds told the cops on 11/22/63 that the suspect he saw
was last headed in a direction OPPOSITE the Texaco parking lot. For the
Commission, he, like Haygood, did not tell the truth, and said he last saw
the guy headed towards the lot.
Reynolds indicated in his FBI interview that the suspect headed WEST on
Jefferson. He even told the FBI that he saw Oswald duck behind the Texaco
Station, which was west of Patton. His statement was corroborated by the
woman at the Texaco Station that saw the fleeing suspect duck behind the
building (where Oswald's jacket was later found). Here's Reynolds' WC
testimony as to which direction Oswald went on Jefferson....
Mr. LIEBELER. Tell us what you saw; will you, please?
Mr.REYNOLDS. OK; our office is up high where I can have a pretty good view
of what was going on. I heard the shots and, when I heard the shots, I
went out on this front porch which is, like I say, high, and I saw this
man coming down the street with the gun in his hand, swinging it just like
he was running. He turned the corner of Patton and Jefferson, going west,
and put the gun in his pants and took off, walking.
Mr. LIEBELER. Were you able to identify this man in your own mind?
Mr.REYNOLDS. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. You did identify him as Lee Harvey Oswald in your own mind?
Mr.REYNOLDS. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. You had no question about it?
Mr.REYNOLDS. No.
So, you want to ignore his FBI interview and sworn testimony, and go with
what a DPD wrote down (which could very well have been in error)
Film footage shows Reynolds being questioned outside one of the old
buildings on the side of the alley AWAY from the parking lot, which
buildings Reynolds originally said that the gunman ran into. That footage
pre-dates any phony testimony or interview that Reynolds later made. Go
ahead, cherry pick the later, "corrected" "evidence"....

and try
Post by InsideSparta
and claim the perpetrator went east on Jefferson? Or, are you grasping at
straws to try and invalidate Reynolds testimony because someone clearly
mistook east and west in the excitement of the situation? Do you have any
corroborating evidence of perpetrator heading east?
I think the correct opposition here would be north/south. The gunman
could have gone right through the abandoned house and continued west on
Jefferson. DO NOT PASS PARKING LOT. DO NOT COLLECT $200....
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
There's your fine witnesses!
Where are your witnesses? Acquilla Clemmons, perhaps?
No, I've looked into that a bit, and she seems to have had help, too.
adjusting her observations, in the other direction....

dcw
InsideSparta
2018-06-05 22:11:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Post by BOZ
Post by donald willis
Isn't it curious that witness James Jarman appears in a frame blow-up of
the Hughes film, on page 207 of Groden's "The Killing of a President", but
not in a frame blow-up of the Hughes, on page 272 of Trask's "Pictures of
the Pain"? And the latter image is clearer than the former.... Now you
see him, now you don't. And you see him in the fuzzier picture!
dcw
WAS THAT JAMES JARMAN'S RIFLE ON THE 6TH FLOOR?
The ATF guy said it was found on a floor lower than the 6th.
So, you want to believe one person, who in all likelihood got his floors mixed up, and choose to ignore the dozens of other individuals that witnessed the rifle being found on the 6th floor, and also ignore the film footage taken by Tom Alyea of the rifle being recovered on the 6th floor? Classic case of someone not seeing the forest because there's a tree in the way.
12:37 DPD radio transmission saying a witness saw the shots come from the
"second window from the end". That window was NOT open on the 6th, was on
the 5th.
Several witnesses testifying that the shooter was at a wide open
window--Robert Jackson, Howard Brennan (!), Ronald Fischer, Robert
Edwards. Again, not the "sniper's nest" window; could be a window on the
5th floor below.
Reports the weekend of 11/22/63 from DPD Dets. Montgomery and partner,
stationed on the 6th floor circa 1:10 to 2:30. Neither heard anyone
shouting about the finding of a rifle, though one of them heard a DPD
vehicle radio from 6 floors below reporting Tippit's shooting--about the
same time the rifle was found. Apparently, on another floor!
The 5th-floor witnesses, all missing from the wide-angle photo (p67) in
the Warren Report. Amazing!
And isn't it possible that some of those witnesses who thought "sixth
floor" were themselves mixed up?
And here's where your tactics completely fall apart. You ignore all of the
evidence, testimony, and even news footage that proves the rifle was found
on the 6th floor, and you base it on whether or not the eyewitnesses
outside the TSBD building could either remember or took notice of whether
or not the window at the SE corner of the 6th floor was completely open or
not. And, no, it's not possible that ALL of the dozens of witnesses that
were on-hand in the TSBD building when the rifle was discovered were
"themselves mixed up" about which floor they were on. You're quite simply
being obtuse with regards to the facts of this case.
As I said, Det. Montgomery heard NOTHING on the 6th floor at the time that
the rifle was being found. And Patrolman Haygood--who (perhaps
feloniously) replaced Patrolman Hill at the hearings--is one of your 6th
floor witnesses to shells there, as per his testimony. But for the HSCA
he recalled seeing boxes and chicken, but NOT SHELLS, on the 6th floor!
How could he forget that most important piece of evidence and remember
much less important pieces???
You're cherry picking again, and ignoring all of the others, and the Tom
Alyea news footage, that shows the rifle was found on the 6th floor.
How do you know it was the 6th floor? One poster here, Walt Cakebread,
posted that the flooring was wrong for it to be the 6th floor, on that
side. (Re-flooring was going on, you recall.)
Post by InsideSparta
There's a forest of evidence out there, stop staring at a small cluster of
trees.
There's a forest of evidence to the contrary, too.
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
DID JARMAN SHOOT TIPPIT?
Oswald didn't.
Just stop your foolishness already. Seven eyewitnesses identified Oswald
as either being the gunman that killed Tippit or was the individual
fleeing the scene with a gun in his hand. The gun that fired the shells
that were found at the scene of the shooting, and were witnessed to have
been tossed to the ground by Oswald, was in Oswald's possession when
arrested at the Texas Theater, and it was proven to have been purchased by
Oswald under the known assumed name (A. Hidell) that Oswald used, and that
he was carrying a fake Selective Service card under when arrested. Oswald
also pulled that same gun on arresting officers in the Texas Theater and
squeezed the trigger. Not only is Oswald's guilt in the Tippit murder a
slam dunk case, had Oswald lived, it would have been the case that got him
executed by the State of Texas. You're more than welcome to make
statements that Oswald was innocent in the Tippit shooting, but you better
have some credible evidence to back it up, (and I'm not talking about
nitpicking and cherry picking witness testimony, which seems to be all you
have), otherwise you'll continue to look foolish on this site.
I have back-and-forthed with Bud on alt.conspiracy.jfk and here on the
Tippit shells, etc. Check those exchanges....
Why is it you CT people can't seem to defend your positions when you get
backed into a corner with the facts, and instead tell others to go find
the evidence that backs your opinion somewhere else? You want to come on
THIS site and make a claim that Oswald didn't shoot Tippit, yet you're too
lazy to back your position up with evidence (credible or not).
I have, and if I had all the time in the world, as you seem to, I could
respond, at length, to every challenge.
Why bother
Post by InsideSparta
to come to this site at all? The shells are only one piece of the evidence
against Oswald. There's also the seven eyewitnesses that identified him
Okay. It took one of those witnesses, the cab driver Scoggins, some 24
hours to bring himself to ID Oswald, after traveling with the cops in
search of the actual perp, whom he apparently did not recognize in Oswald.
In other words, he somehow missed all 3 (THREE) lineups on Friday.
Perhaps he was still looking for the actual shooter....
Scoggins actually traveled around with witness Ted Callaway, who he
mistook for a police officer. They both testified that they jumped into
Scoggins' cab, and drove around looking for him. Callaway, in his WC
testimony, spoke about the brief search....
Mr. BALL. What did you do?
Mr. CALLAWAY. I picked the gun up and laid it on the hood of the squad
car, and then someone put it in the front seat of the squad car. Then
after I helped load Officer Tippit in the ambulance, I got the gun out of
the car and told this cabdriver, I said, "You saw the guy didn't you?" He
said, yes.
I said, "If he is going up Jefferson, he can't be very far. Let's see if
we can find him." So I went with Scoggins in the taxicab, went up to 10th,
Crawford, from Crawford up to Jefferson, and down Jefferson to Beckley.
And we turned on Beckley. If we had kept going up Jefferson, we
probably--there is a good chance we would have seen him, because he was
headed right towards the Texas Theatre. But then we circled around several
blocks, and ended up coming back to where it happened.
Scoggins positively identified Oswald in the line-up on 11/23/63, and
confirmed that identification under oath in his WC testimony. You ignore
that, and instead try to make hay regarding his not attending a line up
until the next day.
It's those little unexplainable (to CTers) things which cry, "Cover-up!"
A witness who traveled with another civilian witness in pursuit of the
perp, then traveled around, again, with the police, a witness who said
that he talked with Tippit every day--that witness is going to wait till
Saturday to ID the perp! You're thinking of another planet....
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Witness Markham has said, in an interview, that she last saw a gunman
heading down the alley off Patton; the cops said the guy went down
Jefferson, off Patton.
Whether he reached Jefferson by cutting through the alley, or went all the
way to the corner of Patton and Jefferson is neither hear nor there.
Gee, can you provide me your source for blinders?
We
Post by InsideSparta
know he reached Jefferson. Sam Guinyard also testified that Oswald went
down the alley off of Patton
No, I don't believe that he did. In fact, his testimony was, I believe,
to the effect that the gunman stayed on the east side of the street until
he had almost reached Jefferson. Callaway testified that the gunman went
across the street almost as soon as he reached Patton. Neither, I
believe, said that he went down the alley....
(which was a westward direction, towards the
Post by InsideSparta
Texaco station and the Texas Theater).
Post by donald willis
Witness Jimmy Burt agreed with her.
Witnesses Virginia & Barbara Davis called the police dispatcher a minute
or two later than the other civilian caller to dispatch, and Virginia
testified (6 or 7 times) that they called the cops first, then saw the
gunman. Taken together, those two facts suggest that the sisters-in-law
saw only someone with a gun chasing the actual shooter.
Barbara Davis testified that the call was made AFTER she saw Oswald run
across the front lawn, emptying his pistol. Since, as you indicated, the
call from the Davis household was made 1 minute later than the civilian
radio dispatch, clearly Virginia Davis' testimony is in error.
Go with that. In which case, then, the Davises saw only the man with
Tippit's gun.
You choose
Post by InsideSparta
to accept Virginia's testimony, even though it has no corroboration with
the facts, unlike Barbara's testimony. More cherry picking on your part.
Post by donald willis
Witness Ted Callaway radioed the police about 1:20, but said nothing then
about seeing the perp or indicating in which direction he left the area.
So what? Callaway was reporting an officer down, and was abruptly told to
stay off of the airwaves.
Because that was all that he had to report. I'd think he would have
wanted to first report that he saw someone with a gun leaving the scene of
the crime. But no....
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
,
Post by InsideSparta
his actions with regards to dumping his jacket behind the Texaco Station
on Jefferson Street between the site of the shooting and the Texas
Theater
Witness Warren Reynolds told the cops on 11/22/63 that the suspect he saw
was last headed in a direction OPPOSITE the Texaco parking lot. For the
Commission, he, like Haygood, did not tell the truth, and said he last saw
the guy headed towards the lot.
Reynolds indicated in his FBI interview that the suspect headed WEST on
Jefferson. He even told the FBI that he saw Oswald duck behind the Texaco
Station, which was west of Patton. His statement was corroborated by the
woman at the Texaco Station that saw the fleeing suspect duck behind the
building (where Oswald's jacket was later found). Here's Reynolds' WC
testimony as to which direction Oswald went on Jefferson....
Mr. LIEBELER. Tell us what you saw; will you, please?
Mr.REYNOLDS. OK; our office is up high where I can have a pretty good view
of what was going on. I heard the shots and, when I heard the shots, I
went out on this front porch which is, like I say, high, and I saw this
man coming down the street with the gun in his hand, swinging it just like
he was running. He turned the corner of Patton and Jefferson, going west,
and put the gun in his pants and took off, walking.
Mr. LIEBELER. Were you able to identify this man in your own mind?
Mr.REYNOLDS. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. You did identify him as Lee Harvey Oswald in your own mind?
Mr.REYNOLDS. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. You had no question about it?
Mr.REYNOLDS. No.
So, you want to ignore his FBI interview and sworn testimony, and go with
what a DPD wrote down (which could very well have been in error)
Film footage shows Reynolds being questioned outside one of the old
buildings on the side of the alley AWAY from the parking lot, which
buildings Reynolds originally said that the gunman ran into. That footage
pre-dates any phony testimony or interview that Reynolds later made. Go
ahead, cherry pick the later, "corrected" "evidence"....
and try
Post by InsideSparta
and claim the perpetrator went east on Jefferson? Or, are you grasping at
straws to try and invalidate Reynolds testimony because someone clearly
mistook east and west in the excitement of the situation? Do you have any
corroborating evidence of perpetrator heading east?
I think the correct opposition here would be north/south. The gunman
could have gone right through the abandoned house and continued west on
Jefferson. DO NOT PASS PARKING LOT. DO NOT COLLECT $200....
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
There's your fine witnesses!
Where are your witnesses? Acquilla Clemmons, perhaps?
No, I've looked into that a bit, and she seems to have had help, too.
adjusting her observations, in the other direction....
dcw
So, you just admitted you have no witnesses. All you can do is nitpick the
eyewitnesses, and then try and make the case that inconsistencies or
errors on their part means that they're lying, and that it all somehow
equates to Oswald being innocent. I guess you never experienced the
exercise in school when a planned surprise event takes place in a
classroom or lecture hall and the witnesses are then asked to write down
what happened, and also answer a series of questions. If you had, you
would know that the memories of the eyewitnesses differ greatly from
person to person. What investigators do is look for common points from
multiple people. If 20 out of 25 people said they saw a man in a red
shirt, and two said it was blue, and three couldn't remember, the odds are
pretty darn good that the man wore a red shirt. Of course, in your world
the other five people who said blue or couldn't remember, would mean that
the other 20 people that saw a red shirt must be lying, or someone coerced
them to say it was red.

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