Discussion:
Can anybody provide more info about the JFK limo?
(too old to reply)
Piotr Mancini
2018-08-02 02:00:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Legal advice/support: A case of FOIA and another similar recourse
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2018 14:25:31 -0500
From: Ramon F Herrera <***@jfknumbers.org>
Organization: JFK Numbers
To: James Lesar <***@xxx.xxx>, Bill Simpich <***@xxx.xx>
CC: Bill Kelly <***@xx.xx>, Rex Bradford <***@xxxx.xx>


Messrs. Lesar and Simpich:

We are in the process of building a free, public, very accurate 3D Model
of Dealey Plaza.

http://www.dealey-plaza.org/

If everything goes as planned, it will provide the definite resolution to
the SBT/MBT debate (or else, declare it undecidable). We are placing every
file in the public domain, or as I fond of saying: "Give those numbers,
measurements, angles and models to their rightful owners: The People".
This is unprecedented. Previous reconstructions have resulted in the files
being jealously guarded, locked up, perhaps forever.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/23022-four-reconstructions-of-the-crime/

After an arduous search, with many doors slammed and e-mails and phone
calls unanswered, we have identified two items in which legal recourse is
needed:

(1) The blueprints of the SS-100-X Lincoln Continental, heavily modified
by O'Gara-Hess & Eisenhardt Armoring. That company just informed me that
they indeed built it but "the government" has the possession and rights
over those blueprints.

(2) The raw laser data collected for this program:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/tech/cold-case-jfk.html


Multiple attempts contacting PBS, Nova and WGBH have produced only polite
response ("We will get back to you"). Question: Given the fact that they
are -in more that a sense- a Public institution, perhaps something
equivalent to a FOIA action could be attempted?

Thanks for your hard work and kind assistance,
-Ramon F Herrera
JFK Numbers
Travis Banger
2018-08-02 23:40:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Piotr Mancini
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Legal advice/support: A case of FOIA and another similar recourse
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2018 14:25:31 -0500
Organization: JFK Numbers
We are in the process of building a free, public, very accurate 3D Model
of Dealey Plaza.
http://www.dealey-plaza.org/
If everything goes as planned, it will provide the definite resolution to
the SBT/MBT debate (or else, declare it undecidable). We are placing every
file in the public domain, or as I fond of saying: "Give those numbers,
measurements, angles and models to their rightful owners: The People".
This is unprecedented. Previous reconstructions have resulted in the files
being jealously guarded, locked up, perhaps forever.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/23022-four-reconstructions-of-the-crime/
After an arduous search, with many doors slammed and e-mails and phone
calls unanswered, we have identified two items in which legal recourse is
(1) The blueprints of the SS-100-X Lincoln Continental, heavily modified
by O'Gara-Hess & Eisenhardt Armoring. That company just informed me that
they indeed built it but "the government" has the possession and rights
over those blueprints.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/tech/cold-case-jfk.html
http://youtu.be/CcYdiEVLc7Q
Multiple attempts contacting PBS, Nova and WGBH have produced only polite
response ("We will get back to you"). Question: Given the fact that they
are -in more that a sense- a Public institution, perhaps something
equivalent to a FOIA action could be attempted?
Thanks for your hard work and kind assistance,
-Ramon F Herrera
JFK Numbers
Anybody interested in helping with the FOIA action is welcome.

-Ramon
JFK Numbers
***@jfknumbers.org
Anthony Marsh
2018-08-07 15:33:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Travis Banger
Post by Piotr Mancini
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Legal advice/support: A case of FOIA and another similar recourse
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2018 14:25:31 -0500
Organization: JFK Numbers
We are in the process of building a free, public, very accurate 3D Model
of Dealey Plaza.
http://www.dealey-plaza.org/
Cute. Did you ever see Dale Myers 3D model of Dealey Plaza?
Do you know what's wrong with it?
Do you understand that Dealey Plaza changed slightly from 1963?
Are you going to send this to the Microsoft Ai project?
Post by Travis Banger
Post by Piotr Mancini
If everything goes as planned, it will provide the definite resolution to
the SBT/MBT debate (or else, declare it undecidable). We are placing every
file in the public domain, or as I fond of saying: "Give those numbers,
measurements, angles and models to their rightful owners: The People".
This is unprecedented. Previous reconstructions have resulted in the files
being jealously guarded, locked up, perhaps forever.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/23022-four-reconstructions-of-the-crime/
After an arduous search, with many doors slammed and e-mails and phone
calls unanswered, we have identified two items in which legal recourse is
(1) The blueprints of the SS-100-X Lincoln Continental, heavily modified
by O'Gara-Hess & Eisenhardt Armoring. That company just informed me that
they indeed built it but "the government" has the possession and rights
over those blueprints.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/tech/cold-case-jfk.html
http://youtu.be/CcYdiEVLc7Q
Multiple attempts contacting PBS, Nova and WGBH have produced only polite
response ("We will get back to you"). Question: Given the fact that they
are -in more that a sense- a Public institution, perhaps something
equivalent to a FOIA action could be attempted?
Thanks for your hard work and kind assistance,
-Ramon F Herrera
JFK Numbers
Anybody interested in helping with the FOIA action is welcome.
-Ramon
JFK Numbers
Piotr Mancini
2018-08-08 23:16:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Piotr Mancini
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Legal advice/support: A case of FOIA and another similar recourse
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2018 14:25:31 -0500
Organization: JFK Numbers
We are in the process of building a free, public, very accurate 3D Model
of Dealey Plaza.
http://www.dealey-plaza.org/
Cute. Did you ever see Dale Myers 3D model of Dealey Plaza?
Do you know what's wrong with it?
I have an interesting anecdote, Tony. There is a YouTube video (and a JFK
Assassination Forum) dedicated to the adoration of their deity, Dale
Myers.


https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/board,1.0.html

The person who posted the video (with over 3M views! Not too shabby...) is
also a participant here, David Emerling. He is a former pilot. I have been
there several times, trollin..., err, sorry, I mean, seriously challenging
the readers with questions such as:

- "Should Donald Trump Release His Tax Returns?" followed by: "Oops, I
am sorry, I just came from the Politico web site. However, the answer
from these two is exactly the same:"

- "My dad's tax returns are several feet high, the American people are
not capable of understanding all that complexity."
-Donald Trump Jr.

- "The Dale Myers model is very complicated, he cannot possibly release
the numbers that you ask, Ramon, because the American people are not
capable of understanding all that complexity."
- David Emerling.

To which I reply:

- "Really? How about the best firms and schools of accounting? Are they
too dumb, too? Investigative journalists can work on simplified
summaries". To the former.

- Really? How about MIT, Stanford, Berkeley, Oxford... Are they too dumb,
too? Specialized journalists can make a simplified summaries." To the
latter.


BTW: Prof. McAdams had a different excuse: As a good Republican, he has
defended for years the entrepreneurial spirit of America:

"Concepts such as 'those distances and angles are owned by The People'
are proper of communists! Long live capitalism! Let Myers profit from his
creation".

(or words to that effect)

Hey, prof: For how long do you figure that should be the case? Even
patents expire after 17 years. Additionally, the Myers numbers are
obsolete. Why does he insist -as a good Egyptian- to take the contents of
his hard drive to the afterlife?

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/23022-four-reconstructions-of-the-crime/

[To be continued]

-Ramon
JFK Numbers
ramon (at) jfknumbers.org

Anthony Marsh
2018-08-05 03:05:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Piotr Mancini
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Legal advice/support: A case of FOIA and another similar recourse
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2018 14:25:31 -0500
Organization: JFK Numbers
We are in the process of building a free, public, very accurate 3D Model
of Dealey Plaza.
http://www.dealey-plaza.org/
If everything goes as planned, it will provide the definite resolution to
the SBT/MBT debate (or else, declare it undecidable). We are placing every
file in the public domain, or as I fond of saying: "Give those numbers,
measurements, angles and models to their rightful owners: The People".
This is unprecedented. Previous reconstructions have resulted in the files
being jealously guarded, locked up, perhaps forever.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/23022-four-reconstructions-of-the-crime/
After an arduous search, with many doors slammed and e-mails and phone
calls unanswered, we have identified two items in which legal recourse is
(1) The blueprints of the SS-100-X Lincoln Continental, heavily modified
by O'Gara-Hess & Eisenhardt Armoring. That company just informed me that
they indeed built it but "the government" has the possession and rights
over those blueprints.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/tech/cold-case-jfk.html
http://youtu.be/CcYdiEVLc7Q
Multiple attempts contacting PBS, Nova and WGBH have produced only polite
response ("We will get back to you"). Question: Given the fact that they
are -in more that a sense- a Public institution, perhaps something
equivalent to a FOIA action could be attempted?
Thanks for your hard work and kind assistance,
-Ramon F Herrera
JFK Numbers
I have posted many files about the JFK limousine from the JFK Library.
Allan G. Johnson
2018-08-06 04:14:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Piotr Mancini
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Legal advice/support: A case of FOIA and another similar recourse
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2018 14:25:31 -0500
Organization: JFK Numbers
We are in the process of building a free, public, very accurate 3D Model
of Dealey Plaza.
http://www.dealey-plaza.org/
If everything goes as planned, it will provide the definite resolution to
the SBT/MBT debate (or else, declare it undecidable). We are placing every
file in the public domain, or as I fond of saying: "Give those numbers,
measurements, angles and models to their rightful owners: The People".
This is unprecedented. Previous reconstructions have resulted in the files
being jealously guarded, locked up, perhaps forever.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/23022-four-reconstructions-of-the-crime/
After an arduous search, with many doors slammed and e-mails and phone
calls unanswered, we have identified two items in which legal recourse is
(1) The blueprints of the SS-100-X Lincoln Continental, heavily modified
by O'Gara-Hess & Eisenhardt Armoring. That company just informed me that
they indeed built it but "the government" has the possession and rights
over those blueprints.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/tech/cold-case-jfk.html
http://youtu.be/CcYdiEVLc7Q
Multiple attempts contacting PBS, Nova and WGBH have produced only polite
response ("We will get back to you"). Question: Given the fact that they
are -in more that a sense- a Public institution, perhaps something
equivalent to a FOIA action could be attempted?
Thanks for your hard work and kind assistance,
-Ramon F Herrera
JFK Numbers
The actual limo is located, and on permanent display, at the Henry Ford
Museum and Greenfield Village in Dearborn Michigan (The Henry Ford).
They may have any additional information you might need.
Piotr Mancini
2018-08-07 03:29:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Piotr Mancini
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Legal advice/support: A case of FOIA and another similar recourse
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2018 14:25:31 -0500
Organization: JFK Numbers
We are in the process of building a free, public, very accurate 3D Model
of Dealey Plaza.
http://www.dealey-plaza.org/
If everything goes as planned, it will provide the definite resolution to
the SBT/MBT debate (or else, declare it undecidable). We are placing every
file in the public domain, or as I fond of saying: "Give those numbers,
measurements, angles and models to their rightful owners: The People".
This is unprecedented. Previous reconstructions have resulted in the files
being jealously guarded, locked up, perhaps forever.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/23022-four-reconstructions-of-the-crime/
After an arduous search, with many doors slammed and e-mails and phone
calls unanswered, we have identified two items in which legal recourse is
(1) The blueprints of the SS-100-X Lincoln Continental, heavily modified
by O'Gara-Hess & Eisenhardt Armoring. That company just informed me that
they indeed built it but "the government" has the possession and rights
over those blueprints.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/tech/cold-case-jfk.html
http://youtu.be/CcYdiEVLc7Q
Multiple attempts contacting PBS, Nova and WGBH have produced only polite
response ("We will get back to you"). Question: Given the fact that they
are -in more that a sense- a Public institution, perhaps something
equivalent to a FOIA action could be attempted?
Thanks for your hard work and kind assistance,
-Ramon F Herrera
JFK Numbers
The actual limo is located, and on permanent display, at the Henry Ford
Museum and Greenfield Village in Dearborn Michigan (The Henry Ford).
They may have any additional information you might need.
Thank you so much, Allan. That should be my next attempt.

I have some additional, related news, about the NOVA documentary.

I was informed last week that the executive in charge of the program is on
vacation, will be back tomorrow, hopefully providing an answer to the Big
Question JFK Numbers keep on asking: "Who has the laser data? Who owns
it?"

-Ramon
JFK Numbers
bigdog
2018-08-07 05:04:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Piotr Mancini
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Legal advice/support: A case of FOIA and another similar recourse
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2018 14:25:31 -0500
Organization: JFK Numbers
We are in the process of building a free, public, very accurate 3D Model
of Dealey Plaza.
http://www.dealey-plaza.org/
If everything goes as planned, it will provide the definite resolution to
the SBT/MBT debate (or else, declare it undecidable). We are placing every
file in the public domain, or as I fond of saying: "Give those numbers,
measurements, angles and models to their rightful owners: The People".
This is unprecedented. Previous reconstructions have resulted in the files
being jealously guarded, locked up, perhaps forever.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/23022-four-reconstructions-of-the-crime/
After an arduous search, with many doors slammed and e-mails and phone
calls unanswered, we have identified two items in which legal recourse is
(1) The blueprints of the SS-100-X Lincoln Continental, heavily modified
by O'Gara-Hess & Eisenhardt Armoring. That company just informed me that
they indeed built it but "the government" has the possession and rights
over those blueprints.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/tech/cold-case-jfk.html
http://youtu.be/CcYdiEVLc7Q
Multiple attempts contacting PBS, Nova and WGBH have produced only polite
response ("We will get back to you"). Question: Given the fact that they
are -in more that a sense- a Public institution, perhaps something
equivalent to a FOIA action could be attempted?
Thanks for your hard work and kind assistance,
-Ramon F Herrera
JFK Numbers
The actual limo is located, and on permanent display, at the Henry Ford
Museum and Greenfield Village in Dearborn Michigan (The Henry Ford).
They may have any additional information you might need.
Here's some excellent information from their website:

https://www.thehenryford.org/collections-and-research/digital-resources/popular-topics/kennedy-limo/

I've used this website in the past.
Anthony Marsh
2018-08-07 15:33:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Piotr Mancini
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Legal advice/support: A case of FOIA and another similar recourse
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2018 14:25:31 -0500
Organization: JFK Numbers
We are in the process of building a free, public, very accurate 3D Model
of Dealey Plaza.
http://www.dealey-plaza.org/
If everything goes as planned, it will provide the definite resolution to
the SBT/MBT debate (or else, declare it undecidable). We are placing every
file in the public domain, or as I fond of saying: "Give those numbers,
measurements, angles and models to their rightful owners: The People".
This is unprecedented. Previous reconstructions have resulted in the files
being jealously guarded, locked up, perhaps forever.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/23022-four-reconstructions-of-the-crime/
After an arduous search, with many doors slammed and e-mails and phone
calls unanswered, we have identified two items in which legal recourse is
(1) The blueprints of the SS-100-X Lincoln Continental, heavily modified
by O'Gara-Hess & Eisenhardt Armoring. That company just informed me that
they indeed built it but "the government" has the possession and rights
over those blueprints.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/tech/cold-case-jfk.html
http://youtu.be/CcYdiEVLc7Q
Multiple attempts contacting PBS, Nova and WGBH have produced only polite
response ("We will get back to you"). Question: Given the fact that they
are -in more that a sense- a Public institution, perhaps something
equivalent to a FOIA action could be attempted?
Thanks for your hard work and kind assistance,
-Ramon F Herrera
JFK Numbers
The actual limo is located, and on permanent display, at the Henry Ford
Museum and Greenfield Village in Dearborn Michigan (The Henry Ford).
They may have any additional information you might need.
Yes, they are helpful, but that is not the original limo. It was
modified. Some guy built his own limo to the original specs.
Piotr Mancini
2018-08-08 23:00:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Piotr Mancini
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Legal advice/support: A case of FOIA and another similar recourse
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2018 14:25:31 -0500
Organization: JFK Numbers
We are in the process of building a free, public, very accurate 3D Model
of Dealey Plaza.
http://www.dealey-plaza.org/
If everything goes as planned, it will provide the definite resolution to
the SBT/MBT debate (or else, declare it undecidable). We are placing every
file in the public domain, or as I fond of saying: "Give those numbers,
measurements, angles and models to their rightful owners: The People".
This is unprecedented. Previous reconstructions have resulted in the files
being jealously guarded, locked up, perhaps forever.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/23022-four-reconstructions-of-the-crime/
After an arduous search, with many doors slammed and e-mails and phone
calls unanswered, we have identified two items in which legal recourse is
(1) The blueprints of the SS-100-X Lincoln Continental, heavily modified
by O'Gara-Hess & Eisenhardt Armoring. That company just informed me that
they indeed built it but "the government" has the possession and rights
over those blueprints.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/tech/cold-case-jfk.html
http://youtu.be/CcYdiEVLc7Q
Multiple attempts contacting PBS, Nova and WGBH have produced only polite
response ("We will get back to you"). Question: Given the fact that they
are -in more that a sense- a Public institution, perhaps something
equivalent to a FOIA action could be attempted?
Thanks for your hard work and kind assistance,
-Ramon F Herrera
JFK Numbers
The actual limo is located, and on permanent display, at the Henry Ford
Museum and Greenfield Village in Dearborn Michigan (The Henry Ford).
They may have any additional information you might need.
Yes, they are helpful, but that is not the original limo. It was
modified. Some guy built his own limo to the original specs.
Tony: For once I am going to agree with Little Dog :-)

I urgently need the blueprints for the original limo. Among other uses
that you can easily surmise, I made a deal with this company:

https://hum3d.com/3d-models/lincoln-continental-x-100-1961/

Dmitry Korchagin and his team of 3D designers have been very helpful and
responsive, incorporating promptly all the changes that I have requested
(the color was no black but blue, plus delivering several file formats
that I need .. All for 75 bucks!).

All I know at this point is what Richie Allen from O'Gara-Hess &
Eisenhardt Armoring Company told me last week, on the phone.

It took a little persuasion, at first Richie was tight lipped repeating:

"Yes, we built it. That was more than 50 years ago. I can guarantee that
we do not have the blueprints"

Finally, he released the good part:

"Mr. Herrera, all I am going to say is that the government has the
property and rights".

(IOW: Can you say FOIA? Bingo!)

Therefore ANY information will be helpful. Presumably the people in charge of the Henry Ford Museum in Michigan can point me in the right direction.

Thanks, Doggie! Here's a bone cookie for ya' :-)

-Ramon
JFK Numbers
ramon (at) jfknumbers.org
Piotr Mancini
2018-08-08 23:02:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Yes, they are helpful, but that is not the original limo. It was
modified. Some guy built his own limo to the original specs.
That guy's name is Fred Nicholas Ciacelli, I had the misfortune of
interacting with him. Long story short, he is one of many who would prefer
to squeeze that teat until they die. His replica (he claims to be unique)
has been used by Oliver Stone, etc., etc.

See info that I forwarded to my e-boss, Bill Kelly, the man who recruited
me for the Houston Mock Trial of Lee, below.

Bill was asking me for a list of items that Dr. Wecht solicited, My Dream
List, to see which of them he can make possible, or push in the correct
direction.

-Ramon
JFK Numbers

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Fwd: The only Kennedy Limo built from the original blueprints from JFK's 1961 Presidential Lincoln.
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2018 21:08:36 -0500
From: Ramon F Herrera <***@jfknumbers.org>
Organization: JFK Numbers
To: Bill Kelly <***@xxxxxxxx.xxxx>

Bill:

I will send you something itemized soon. However, see this quick example
(out of dozens) that shows not only the lack of cooperation (apathy) but
the sabotage to the cause by people who are supposed to be on our side.

I spoke with and e-mailed that guy, Fred Nicholas Ciacelli - Owner of Limo
Replica. He managed to have Kathleen Kennedy inaugurating his museum in
Florida (which now has become a show on the road, mind you). Clowns come
to mind.



(that is a program from a TV station in Hong-Kong or somewhere, it is the
only version which contains the full NatGeo documentary)

Click here to see Ciacelli at the minute 20:

20:34

I lobbied him, asking questions such: "Where did you get the blueprints?"
(I already know where). When he saw my proto-site and my plans to put
everything in the public domain (including the limo exact dimensions,
promoting competition to his blue gold mine), he ran scared, called me
names. I am afraid that too many people just want to "milk this cow"
forever.

As soon as the Kennedys learn about our efforts, they will be supporting
our plans and not that snake oil salesman.

-Ramon


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: The only Kennedy Limo built from the original blueprints from JFK's 1961 Presidential Lincoln.
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2018 00:34:10 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ramon F Herrera <***@jfknumbers.org>
Organization: JFK Numbers
To: Ramon F Herrera <***@dealey-plaza.org>

"F. Nicholas Ciacelli, the owner of JFK35, would love to talk to you about
having the exhibit at your venue or event. Call Nicholas at 954-225-0842"

https://twitter.com/kennedylimo?lang=en
http://jfk35.com/?page_id=19
http://jfk35.com/?p=131
https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2014/10/07/clone-of-kennedys-lincoln-limousine-comes-up-for-sale-again/#comments-block
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