Discussion:
Questions for Donald Willis
(too old to reply)
Mark
2018-06-21 21:46:52 UTC
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Donald, some questions:

1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?

2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?

3) Did any of his fellow employees observe him watching the motorcade by
himself?

4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?

5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?

6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?

7) Did he leave his wife, at Mrs. Paine's home, his wedding ring and
almost all the money he possessed?

8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?

9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?

10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?

11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?

I could go one with the ballistic and medical evidence. I just wonder how
you square your Posts on here with the, IMO, overwhelming circumstantial
evidence of Oswald's guilt. Mark
donald willis
2018-06-23 16:23:26 UTC
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Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Post by Mark
3) Did any of his fellow employees observe him watching the motorcade by
himself?
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Post by Mark
6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?
Was it there in the first place?
Post by Mark
7) Did he leave his wife, at Mrs. Paine's home, his wedding ring and
almost all the money he possessed?
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported that it was found
"on a lower floor". And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police radio outside)
at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing of the (noisy) discovery
of the rifle--at about that same time--on the floor which they were on!
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
Post by Mark
I could go one with the ballistic and medical evidence. I just wonder how
you square your Posts on here with the, IMO, overwhelming circumstantial
evidence of Oswald's guilt. Mark
bigdog's phrase is "mountain of evidence". There's also a mountain of
evidence now AGAINST Oswald's guilt....

dcw
InsideSparta
2018-06-24 00:47:21 UTC
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Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Post by Mark
3) Did any of his fellow employees observe him watching the motorcade by
himself?
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Buell Frazier has never recanted his WC testimony that Oswald carried a
package into the TSBD that morning, nor was he the only witness that saw
Oswald with the package. Linnie Mae Randall also testified to witnessing
Oswald carrying the package and placing it in the back seat of her
brother's car; which also corroborated Frazier's testimony that the
package was on the rear seat. Play with that for awhile.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?
Was it there in the first place?
Post by Mark
7) Did he leave his wife, at Mrs. Paine's home, his wedding ring and
almost all the money he possessed?
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported that it was found
"on a lower floor". And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police radio outside)
at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing of the (noisy) discovery
of the rifle--at about that same time--on the floor which they were on!
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
Post by Mark
I could go one with the ballistic and medical evidence. I just wonder how
you square your Posts on here with the, IMO, overwhelming circumstantial
evidence of Oswald's guilt. Mark
bigdog's phrase is "mountain of evidence". There's also a mountain of
evidence now AGAINST Oswald's guilt....
dcw
Steve BH
2018-06-25 02:07:18 UTC
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Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Post by Mark
3) Did any of his fellow employees observe him watching the motorcade by
himself?
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Buell Frazier has never recanted his WC testimony that Oswald carried a
package into the TSBD that morning, nor was he the only witness that saw
Oswald with the package. Linnie Mae Randall also testified to witnessing
Oswald carrying the package and placing it in the back seat of her
brother's car; which also corroborated Frazier's testimony that the
package was on the rear seat. Play with that for awhile.
Yes. And Randall and Frazier agree that never had Oswald acted as he did
that morning. Frazier had driven Oswald to work on a Monday at least 5
times, and Oswald had never come to Frazier's house. But met him
sauntering down the street half a block from the Paine's or at the Paine
corner. This time (an unusual Friday) Oswald came to the house early and
looked in the kitchen window! So early that Frazier thought HE might be
late (he checked his watch and wasn't). Oswald was getting that package
into the back seat of Frazier's car with extra care. Yes, you never know
when somebody might try to steal or just bend your curtain rods. Oswald's
wife was estranged and didn't care for him and he was about to lose her
and their two kids, but the curtain rods had priority. Oswald's
window-treatment must be given all the care of an egg in the nest, as we
see here. That is what CTs want us to believe.

Now Mr. Willis thinks humans have video cameras in their brains and should
give exactly the same testimony, unless there is a coverup. Of course,
when they DO give the same testimony, he takes that as evidence of
"coaching" so I suppose it's a mighty thin line between. Maybe
non-existent, hey?

Frazier never could remember believably what Oswald was wearing that
morning. He remembered a grey wool jacket with wide sleeves and rejected
the only two jackets Oswald actually owned (shown him later). It wasn't he
grey one left in the garage parking lot near Tippit. Nor the one left in
the TSBD. And now we have a mystery. Frazier got the size wrong, too.
Thought it was 2 feet when it had to be 3.

People are NOT videocameras. They can and do make errors all the time. But
where there's more to explain on one side than the other of a hypothesis
(physical evidence given top priority), that is when you can decide to
trust eyewitnesses. You don't trust one eyewitness rumor and throw out
dozens of pieces of physical evidence. Frazier (for example) stood in the
front of the TSBD next to Billy Lovelady as JFK went by, and said so
(personally I think he's the guy with hands over his head keeping sun out
of his eyes, as he complained about the sun in his testimony). So that guy
in the Altgens photo who looks a bit like Oswald is not Oswald, but
Lovelady (as Lovelady himself tells us). Frazier heard three shots, not
two and not four. But thought they came from the grassy knoll direction.
So do we believe all of what Frazier says? Some of it? None of it?
That's the art.
bigdog
2018-06-26 14:44:33 UTC
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Post by Steve BH
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Post by Mark
3) Did any of his fellow employees observe him watching the motorcade by
himself?
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Buell Frazier has never recanted his WC testimony that Oswald carried a
package into the TSBD that morning, nor was he the only witness that saw
Oswald with the package. Linnie Mae Randall also testified to witnessing
Oswald carrying the package and placing it in the back seat of her
brother's car; which also corroborated Frazier's testimony that the
package was on the rear seat. Play with that for awhile.
Yes. And Randall and Frazier agree that never had Oswald acted as he did
that morning. Frazier had driven Oswald to work on a Monday at least 5
times, and Oswald had never come to Frazier's house. But met him
sauntering down the street half a block from the Paine's or at the Paine
corner. This time (an unusual Friday) Oswald came to the house early and
looked in the kitchen window! So early that Frazier thought HE might be
late (he checked his watch and wasn't). Oswald was getting that package
into the back seat of Frazier's car with extra care. Yes, you never know
when somebody might try to steal or just bend your curtain rods. Oswald's
wife was estranged and didn't care for him and he was about to lose her
and their two kids, but the curtain rods had priority. Oswald's
window-treatment must be given all the care of an egg in the nest, as we
see here. That is what CTs want us to believe.
Now Mr. Willis thinks humans have video cameras in their brains and should
give exactly the same testimony, unless there is a coverup. Of course,
when they DO give the same testimony, he takes that as evidence of
"coaching" so I suppose it's a mighty thin line between. Maybe
non-existent, hey?
Frazier never could remember believably what Oswald was wearing that
morning. He remembered a grey wool jacket with wide sleeves and rejected
the only two jackets Oswald actually owned (shown him later). It wasn't he
grey one left in the garage parking lot near Tippit. Nor the one left in
the TSBD. And now we have a mystery. Frazier got the size wrong, too.
Thought it was 2 feet when it had to be 3.
People are NOT videocameras. They can and do make errors all the time. But
where there's more to explain on one side than the other of a hypothesis
(physical evidence given top priority), that is when you can decide to
trust eyewitnesses. You don't trust one eyewitness rumor and throw out
dozens of pieces of physical evidence. Frazier (for example) stood in the
front of the TSBD next to Billy Lovelady as JFK went by, and said so
(personally I think he's the guy with hands over his head keeping sun out
of his eyes, as he complained about the sun in his testimony). So that guy
in the Altgens photo who looks a bit like Oswald is not Oswald, but
Lovelady (as Lovelady himself tells us). Frazier heard three shots, not
two and not four. But thought they came from the grassy knoll direction.
So do we believe all of what Frazier says? Some of it? None of it?
That's the art.
Whenever a witness tells us anything, we should never assume it is either
correct or incorrect. Typically witnesses get some things right and some
things wrong. Some people remember details better than others. The way to
determine if a witness has got some part right is to look for
corroborating evidence. A witness can be refuted in the same manner. I
think we all have a tendency to want to believe a witness who says things
that fit our beliefs but I try never to present what any witness has said
as proof of anything by itself. Sometimes witnesses will give conflicting
accounts and there isn't any other evidence that corroborates or refutes
either one. In such a case, we should recognize that either or neither
could be right, but both cannot be right.
donald willis
2018-06-25 02:22:15 UTC
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Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Post by Mark
3) Did any of his fellow employees observe him watching the motorcade by
himself?
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Buell Frazier has never recanted his WC testimony that Oswald carried a
package into the TSBD that morning
Well, then what was Frazier talking about on the 50th anniversary of the
assassination? Me, I thought he was saying that he *didn't* see Oswald
with a package. He was reneging on *something*--if not that, then what?
What else did he say of importance? in '63-'64?


, nor was he the only witness that saw
Post by InsideSparta
Oswald with the package. Linnie Mae Randall also testified to witnessing
Oswald carrying the package and placing it in the back seat of her
brother's car
Frazier was the only one who originally said that he saw Oswald carry it
into the depository.

dcw
Mark
2018-06-27 02:21:01 UTC
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Post by donald willis
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Post by Mark
3) Did any of his fellow employees observe him watching the motorcade by
himself?
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Buell Frazier has never recanted his WC testimony that Oswald carried a
package into the TSBD that morning
Well, then what was Frazier talking about on the 50th anniversary of the
assassination? Me, I thought he was saying that he *didn't* see Oswald
with a package. He was reneging on *something*--if not that, then what?
What else did he say of importance? in '63-'64?
It's your statement, don't ask others to verify what you believe you heard.
Just tell where we go to find Frazier recanting.

Mark
mainframetech
2018-06-25 02:30:01 UTC
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Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Post by Mark
3) Did any of his fellow employees observe him watching the motorcade by
himself?
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Buell Frazier has never recanted his WC testimony that Oswald carried a
package into the TSBD that morning, nor was he the only witness that saw
Oswald with the package. Linnie Mae Randall also testified to witnessing
Oswald carrying the package and placing it in the back seat of her
brother's car; which also corroborated Frazier's testimony that the
package was on the rear seat. Play with that for awhile.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?
Was it there in the first place?
Post by Mark
7) Did he leave his wife, at Mrs. Paine's home, his wedding ring and
almost all the money he possessed?
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported that it was found
"on a lower floor". And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police radio outside)
at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing of the (noisy) discovery
of the rifle--at about that same time--on the floor which they were on!
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
Post by Mark
I could go one with the ballistic and medical evidence. I just wonder how
you square your Posts on here with the, IMO, overwhelming circumstantial
evidence of Oswald's guilt. Mark
bigdog's phrase is "mountain of evidence". There's also a mountain of
evidence now AGAINST Oswald's guilt....
dcw
It's easy to accept that the rifle was brought in by LHO in the paper
'bag'. The problem is to figure out who he brought it in for.

One scenario has included that it was brought in for a shooting 'team'
to fire on the motorcade from the 6th floor, and a person was part of that
group. He had the reputation of being an excellent marksman and was paid
$10,000 or his part in the events. The book is "The Men on the Sixth
Floor" by Collum and Sample. The person as Lawrence Loy Factor, an
American Indian who had spent a long time in prison. He was sick and died
soon after the book was published. The story of the shooting team and the
people in it was corroborated by another book called "The Men that don't
Fit in".

Chris
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-24 17:41:22 UTC
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Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
So to be honest he has to claim that they were also shooters.
After all, what other possible reason would ANYONE have to not be out
front watching the motorcade? ;]>
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
3) Did any of his fellow employees observe him watching the motorcade by
himself?
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Post by Mark
6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?
Was it there in the first place?
Post by Mark
7) Did he leave his wife, at Mrs. Paine's home, his wedding ring and
almost all the money he possessed?
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported that it was found
"on a lower floor". And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police radio outside)
at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing of the (noisy) discovery
of the rifle--at about that same time--on the floor which they were on!
No one in Texas was smart enough to figure out which floors were which.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
The acoustical evidence proves that 3 shots were fired from the sniper's
nest.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
Post by Mark
I could go one with the ballistic and medical evidence. I just wonder how
you square your Posts on here with the, IMO, overwhelming circumstantial
evidence of Oswald's guilt. Mark
bigdog's phrase is "mountain of evidence". There's also a mountain of
evidence now AGAINST Oswald's guilt....
dcw
donald willis
2018-06-25 14:10:19 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
So to be honest he has to claim that they were also shooters.
After all, what other possible reason would ANYONE have to not be out
front watching the motorcade? ;]>
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
3) Did any of his fellow employees observe him watching the motorcade by
himself?
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Post by Mark
6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?
Was it there in the first place?
Post by Mark
7) Did he leave his wife, at Mrs. Paine's home, his wedding ring and
almost all the money he possessed?
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported that it was found
"on a lower floor". And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police radio outside)
at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing of the (noisy) discovery
of the rifle--at about that same time--on the floor which they were on!
No one in Texas was smart enough to figure out which floors were which.
Here, however, we know that Montgomery and partner were on the 6th floor,
since they were detailed to guard the "nest" (in case the eggs hatched).
And they heard nothing re the discovery of a rifle, yet they heard someone
on the DPD radio outside reporting the Tippit shooting. And both events
happened about the same time....

dcw
Mark
2018-06-29 16:18:41 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
So to be honest he has to claim that they were also shooters.
After all, what other possible reason would ANYONE have to not be out
front watching the motorcade? ;]>
Now there's some clear thinking. Arce and Dougherty did not leave behind
a mountain of incriminating evidence at their place of work. Innocent men.

Mark
donald willis
2018-06-30 15:13:26 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Mark
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
So to be honest he has to claim that they were also shooters.
After all, what other possible reason would ANYONE have to not be out
front watching the motorcade? ;]>
Now there's some clear thinking. Arce and Dougherty did not leave behind
a mountain of incriminating evidence at their place of work.
And a mountain of exculpating evidence....

Innocent men.
Post by Mark
Mark
Mark
2018-07-01 22:42:14 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
So to be honest he has to claim that they were also shooters.
After all, what other possible reason would ANYONE have to not be out
front watching the motorcade? ;]>
Now there's some clear thinking. Arce and Dougherty did not leave behind
a mountain of incriminating evidence at their place of work.
And a mountain of exculpating evidence....
Patsy-Oswald left behind exculpatory evidence?, or the conspiracy did?
Mark
Anthony Marsh
2018-07-02 17:32:23 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
So to be honest he has to claim that they were also shooters.
After all, what other possible reason would ANYONE have to not be out
front watching the motorcade? ;]>
Now there's some clear thinking. Arce and Dougherty did not leave behind
a mountain of incriminating evidence at their place of work.
And a mountain of exculpating evidence....
Patsy-Oswald left behind exculpatory evidence?, or the conspiracy did?
Mark
The burden of proof is on the prosecutor. Everyone is presumed innocent
until ptoven guilty. At least until the new court reverses that.
claviger
2018-07-03 17:03:35 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
So to be honest he has to claim that they were also shooters.
After all, what other possible reason would ANYONE have to not be out
front watching the motorcade? ;]>
Now there's some clear thinking. Arce and Dougherty did not leave behind
a mountain of incriminating evidence at their place of work.
And a mountain of exculpating evidence....
Patsy-Oswald left behind exculpatory evidence?, or the conspiracy did?
Mark
The burden of proof is on the prosecutor. Everyone is presumed innocent
until ptoven guilty. At least until the new court reverses that.
LHO proved himself guilty by his actions and lies.
Anthony Marsh
2018-07-04 01:39:36 UTC
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Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
So to be honest he has to claim that they were also shooters.
After all, what other possible reason would ANYONE have to not be out
front watching the motorcade? ;]>
Now there's some clear thinking. Arce and Dougherty did not leave behind
a mountain of incriminating evidence at their place of work.
And a mountain of exculpating evidence....
Patsy-Oswald left behind exculpatory evidence?, or the conspiracy did?
Mark
The burden of proof is on the prosecutor. Everyone is presumed innocent
until ptoven guilty. At least until the new court reverses that.
LHO proved himself guilty by his actions and lies.
Only if WC defenders lies about them.
donald willis
2018-07-02 19:42:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
So to be honest he has to claim that they were also shooters.
After all, what other possible reason would ANYONE have to not be out
front watching the motorcade? ;]>
Now there's some clear thinking. Arce and Dougherty did not leave behind
a mountain of incriminating evidence at their place of work.
And a mountain of exculpating evidence....
Patsy-Oswald left behind exculpatory evidence?, or the conspiracy did?
Mark
Glad you asked. Haste makes for confusion. Not sure *what* I was
thinking here....
Mark
2018-06-24 20:28:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Post by Mark
3) Did any of his fellow employees observe him watching the motorcade by
himself?
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Wesley Frazier and his sister Linnie Mae Randle saw the package. That's 2.
When did Frazier recant?
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?
Was it there in the first place?
Yes, should have been according to the person most familiar with his
actions, his wife.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
7) Did he leave his wife, at Mrs. Paine's home, his wedding ring and
almost all the money he possessed?
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported that it was found
"on a lower floor". And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police radio outside)
at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing of the (noisy) discovery
of the rifle--at about that same time--on the floor which they were on!
I'll repeat the question: Was his rifle found on the 6th floor? Or was
that evidence faked?
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Would you tell me where I can find the evidence that the sniper's nest was
faked?
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
I've been doing more than playing with it, I've been reading his WC
testimony. You have got to be kidding me. First of all, you of course
don't tell us that Fischer's testimony shows him to be another eyewitness
who is definite he was a man in the sniper's nest staring down Elm towards
the overpass. And that that man could have been LHO. His comments about
the open window only support his statement that he saw a man in the
window. Instead of taking up space here with Fischer's WC testimony, I'll
open a new Topic. You might want to reread it to refresh your memory.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
And you think that discrepancy wipes out all else he and the others observed. You would make a heck of a detective. You are aware that others beside Euins saw a barrel or something incredibly similiar extending out of the sniper's nest window?
Post by Mark
I could go one with the ballistic and medical evidence. I just wonder how
you square your Posts on here with the, IMO, overwhelming circumstantial
evidence of Oswald's guilt. Mark
bigdog's phrase is "mountain of evidence". There's also a mountain of
evidence now AGAINST Oswald's guilt....
dcw
Only if you believe the evidence was faked. I look forward to more with
you about Mr. Fischer. Mark
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-25 18:34:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Post by Mark
3) Did any of his fellow employees observe him watching the motorcade by
himself?
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Wesley Frazier and his sister Linnie Mae Randle saw the package. That's 2.
When did Frazier recant?
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?
Was it there in the first place?
Yes, should have been according to the person most familiar with his
actions, his wife.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
7) Did he leave his wife, at Mrs. Paine's home, his wedding ring and
almost all the money he possessed?
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported that it was found
"on a lower floor". And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police radio outside)
at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing of the (noisy) discovery
of the rifle--at about that same time--on the floor which they were on!
I'll repeat the question: Was his rifle found on the 6th floor? Or was
that evidence faked?
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Would you tell me where I can find the evidence that the sniper's nest was
faked?
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
I've been doing more than playing with it, I've been reading his WC
testimony. You have got to be kidding me. First of all, you of course
don't tell us that Fischer's testimony shows him to be another eyewitness
who is definite he was a man in the sniper's nest staring down Elm towards
the overpass. And that that man could have been LHO. His comments about
the open window only support his statement that he saw a man in the
window. Instead of taking up space here with Fischer's WC testimony, I'll
open a new Topic. You might want to reread it to refresh your memory.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
And you think that discrepancy wipes out all else he and the others observed. You would make a heck of a detective. You are aware that others beside Euins saw a barrel or something incredibly similiar extending out of the sniper's nest window?
Post by Mark
I could go one with the ballistic and medical evidence. I just wonder how
you square your Posts on here with the, IMO, overwhelming circumstantial
evidence of Oswald's guilt. Mark
bigdog's phrase is "mountain of evidence". There's also a mountain of
evidence now AGAINST Oswald's guilt....
dcw
Only if you believe the evidence was faked. I look forward to more with
you about Mr. Fischer. Mark
You can ASSuME almost anyone is guilty of any crime if you lie about the
evidence.
OHLeeRedux
2018-06-26 14:46:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Post by Mark
3) Did any of his fellow employees observe him watching the motorcade by
himself?
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Wesley Frazier and his sister Linnie Mae Randle saw the package. That's 2.
When did Frazier recant?
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?
Was it there in the first place?
Yes, should have been according to the person most familiar with his
actions, his wife.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
7) Did he leave his wife, at Mrs. Paine's home, his wedding ring and
almost all the money he possessed?
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported that it was found
"on a lower floor". And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police radio outside)
at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing of the (noisy) discovery
of the rifle--at about that same time--on the floor which they were on!
I'll repeat the question: Was his rifle found on the 6th floor? Or was
that evidence faked?
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Would you tell me where I can find the evidence that the sniper's nest was
faked?
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
I've been doing more than playing with it, I've been reading his WC
testimony. You have got to be kidding me. First of all, you of course
don't tell us that Fischer's testimony shows him to be another eyewitness
who is definite he was a man in the sniper's nest staring down Elm towards
the overpass. And that that man could have been LHO. His comments about
the open window only support his statement that he saw a man in the
window. Instead of taking up space here with Fischer's WC testimony, I'll
open a new Topic. You might want to reread it to refresh your memory.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
And you think that discrepancy wipes out all else he and the others observed. You would make a heck of a detective. You are aware that others beside Euins saw a barrel or something incredibly similiar extending out of the sniper's nest window?
Post by Mark
I could go one with the ballistic and medical evidence. I just wonder how
you square your Posts on here with the, IMO, overwhelming circumstantial
evidence of Oswald's guilt. Mark
bigdog's phrase is "mountain of evidence". There's also a mountain of
evidence now AGAINST Oswald's guilt....
dcw
Only if you believe the evidence was faked. I look forward to more with
you about Mr. Fischer. Mark
You can ASSuME almost anyone is guilty of any crime if you lie about the
evidence.
So that's why you do it. Thanks for the heads up, Anthony.
donald willis
2018-06-26 02:26:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Post by Mark
3) Did any of his fellow employees observe him watching the motorcade by
himself?
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Wesley Frazier and his sister Linnie Mae Randle saw the package. That's 2.
When did Frazier recant?
On the 50th anniversary of the assassination.
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?
Was it there in the first place?
Yes, should have been according to the person most familiar with his
actions, his wife.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
7) Did he leave his wife, at Mrs. Paine's home, his wedding ring and
almost all the money he possessed?
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported that it was found
"on a lower floor". And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police radio outside)
at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing of the (noisy) discovery
of the rifle--at about that same time--on the floor which they were on!
I'll repeat the question: Was his rifle found on the 6th floor? Or was
that evidence faked?
I'll repeat: The rifle was NOT found on the 6th floor. Homicide Det.
Marvin Johnson reported (CE 2003 p210) that he arrived at the depository
about 12:50pm: "The window that the shot was fired from was open & we
could hear the police radio from below. At approximately 1:20 I heard a
call come out reporting a shooting at 10th & Patton involving a police
officer.... At approximately 2:30pm we left the Book Depository."

Deputy Eugene Boone reported that "when I found the rifle it was 1:22pm by
my watch." So, Det. Johnson was on the 6th floor at the time that the
rifle was found. Yet nowhere in his report is any reference whatsoever to
the discovery of a rifle, a few minutes AFTER the Oak Cliff call. Can it
be that there was no commotion at all when the rifle was found? There
was, actually:

"Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone YELLED that he had found the rifle"--Deputy
Sheriff A.D. McCurley (v19p514)

"I heard Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone HOLLER OUT that he had found the
rifle"--Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney

Yet, Johnson, on the 6th floor, did not hear Boone yelling or hollering!
But, a few minutes earlier, he had heard a radio call from 6 floors away,
outside the building!

Again, the rifle was NOT found on the 6th floor....

dcw
Mark
2018-06-26 19:47:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Post by Mark
3) Did any of his fellow employees observe him watching the motorcade by
himself?
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Wesley Frazier and his sister Linnie Mae Randle saw the package. That's 2.
When did Frazier recant?
On the 50th anniversary of the assassination.
Where can I find him recanting? Cite?
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?
Was it there in the first place?
Yes, should have been according to the person most familiar with his
actions, his wife.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
7) Did he leave his wife, at Mrs. Paine's home, his wedding ring and
almost all the money he possessed?
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported that it was found
"on a lower floor". And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police radio outside)
at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing of the (noisy) discovery
of the rifle--at about that same time--on the floor which they were on!
I'll repeat the question: Was his rifle found on the 6th floor? Or was
that evidence faked?
I'll repeat: The rifle was NOT found on the 6th floor. Homicide Det.
Marvin Johnson reported (CE 2003 p210) that he arrived at the depository
about 12:50pm: "The window that the shot was fired from was open & we
could hear the police radio from below. At approximately 1:20 I heard a
call come out reporting a shooting at 10th & Patton involving a police
officer.... At approximately 2:30pm we left the Book Depository."
Deputy Eugene Boone reported that "when I found the rifle it was 1:22pm by
my watch." So, Det. Johnson was on the 6th floor at the time that the
rifle was found. Yet nowhere in his report is any reference whatsoever to
the discovery of a rifle, a few minutes AFTER the Oak Cliff call. Can it
be that there was no commotion at all when the rifle was found? There
"Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone YELLED that he had found the rifle"--Deputy
Sheriff A.D. McCurley (v19p514)
"I heard Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone HOLLER OUT that he had found the
rifle"--Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney
Yet, Johnson, on the 6th floor, did not hear Boone yelling or hollering!
But, a few minutes earlier, he had heard a radio call from 6 floors away,
outside the building!
Again, the rifle was NOT found on the 6th floor....
dcw
So, the Dallas police officers faked and lied about the rifle being
found on the 6th floor? That has to be your conclusion, right?

You didn't respond to this: Where can I find the evidence that the
sniper's nest was faked? Mark
bigdog
2018-06-25 02:40:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Post by Mark
3) Did any of his fellow employees observe him watching the motorcade by
himself?
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
A package long enough to hold Oswald's disassembled Carcano was found near
the sniper's nest. It had Oswald's fingerprints on it and fibers matching
the blanket he used to store his rifle. If you don't think he brought the
package to work with him that morning, when do you think he brought it in
and what do you think was in it?

Even someone as obstinate as Chris/mainframetech accepts the fact Oswald
brought his rifle to work that day. He just thinks it was for show and
tell.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?
Was it there in the first place?
That was its normal place. When Marina took the police out to the garage
to show them where he kept his rifle, she gasped when she saw the blanked
was empty.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
7) Did he leave his wife, at Mrs. Paine's home, his wedding ring and
almost all the money he possessed?
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported that it was found
"on a lower floor". And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police radio outside)
at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing of the (noisy) discovery
of the rifle--at about that same time--on the floor which they were on!
Lot's of misinformation gets passed around in the aftermath of an event.
Film footage shows the rifle was on the 6th floor. When there is
conflicting evidence the intelligent thing to do is ask what the
preponderance of evidence indicates. Conspiracy hobbyists always go with
whatever explanation exonerates Oswald because that is all they are
interested in doing. Finding the truth has no appeal for them.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Attaboy. Ignore the witnesses who placed the shooter on the 6th floor.
Ignore the recovered shells. Ignore the rifle bag found nearby. Pretend a
rifle wasn't found on the 6th floor. Pretend fingerprints from the owner
of that rifle weren't found in the nest. Whatever you need to do to
maintain your delusions, go with it.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
How many inches constitutes "wide open"?
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
So you go with the outlier's description even though his various versions show he was unsure.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
I could go one with the ballistic and medical evidence. I just wonder how
you square your Posts on here with the, IMO, overwhelming circumstantial
evidence of Oswald's guilt. Mark
bigdog's phrase is "mountain of evidence". There's also a mountain of
evidence now AGAINST Oswald's guilt....
The latter is imaginary. No objective person could look at the evidence of
Oswald's guilt without being convinced he was the assassin. It's only
people who refuse to accept what all that evidence is indicating who
believe otherwise.
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-26 14:55:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Post by Mark
3) Did any of his fellow employees observe him watching the motorcade by
himself?
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
A package long enough to hold Oswald's disassembled Carcano was found near
the sniper's nest. It had Oswald's fingerprints on it and fibers matching
the blanket he used to store his rifle. If you don't think he brought the
package to work with him that morning, when do you think he brought it in
and what do you think was in it?
Even someone as obstinate as Chris/mainframetech accepts the fact Oswald
brought his rifle to work that day. He just thinks it was for show and
tell.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?
Was it there in the first place?
That was its normal place. When Marina took the police out to the garage
to show them where he kept his rifle, she gasped when she saw the blanked
was empty.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
7) Did he leave his wife, at Mrs. Paine's home, his wedding ring and
almost all the money he possessed?
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported that it was found
"on a lower floor". And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police radio outside)
at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing of the (noisy) discovery
of the rifle--at about that same time--on the floor which they were on!
Lot's of misinformation gets passed around in the aftermath of an event.
__Let's ignore your grammatical error.
Only WC defenders area allowed to point out grammatical errors to try to
claim moral superiority over conspiracy believer.
Post by bigdog
Film footage shows the rifle was on the 6th floor. When there is
conflicting evidence the intelligent thing to do is ask what the
You are in no position to lecutre people about what the intelligence
thing to do is.
Post by bigdog
whatever explanation exonerates Oswald because that is all they are
interested in doing. Finding the truth has no appeal for them.
There is a slight difference between demanding correct investigations
and claiming someone is innocent. I don't expect someone like you to
understand the subtle intricacies.

Did YOU prove that the Zapruder film is authentic? No, because you have
no interest in finding the truth, just in covering up the truth.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Attaboy. Ignore the witnesses who placed the shooter on the 6th floor.
Such as? Plural means more than one. In order to have more than Brennan
you would have to include Euins. So then you'd have to admit that the
shooter was a black man. Do you happen to know the name of that black man?
Was he a friend of yours?
Post by bigdog
Ignore the recovered shells. Ignore the rifle bag found nearby. Pretend a
rifle wasn't found on the 6th floor. Pretend fingerprints from the owner
of that rifle weren't found in the nest. Whatever you need to do to
maintain your delusions, go with it.
Never ignore evidence. Evaluated it.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
How many inches constitutes "wide open"?
20 inches.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
So you go with the outlier's description even though his various versions show he was unsure.
Outlier? You only have 3 witnesses.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
I could go one with the ballistic and medical evidence. I just wonder how
you square your Posts on here with the, IMO, overwhelming circumstantial
evidence of Oswald's guilt. Mark
bigdog's phrase is "mountain of evidence". There's also a mountain of
evidence now AGAINST Oswald's guilt....
The latter is imaginary. No objective person could look at the evidence of
Oswald's guilt without being convinced he was the assassin. It's only
people who refuse to accept what all that evidence is indicating who
believe otherwise.
It's easier when you're biased.
donald willis
2018-06-26 19:37:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Post by Mark
3) Did any of his fellow employees observe him watching the motorcade by
himself?
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
A package long enough to hold Oswald's disassembled Carcano was found near
the sniper's nest.
I believe, yes, I've seen a photo of Johnson or Montgomery bringing said
package down the front steps. But that does not indicate WHERE it was
FOUND. I believe the WR shows a dotted line where it says the thing was
found, but for some inconsequential but perhaps interesting reason, it was
not photographed in situ. One possible *consequential* reason: It was
found elsewhere, perhaps on the 6th floor. Or, perhaps--and this is my
favorite--(b) the photo included the "nest" and there were no hulls in it,
at a time when there should have been. Or (c) --[provide your own
explanation!]....

Reasons enough not to photograph it, or release a photo which showed the
"situ" was elsewhere!

It had Oswald's fingerprints on it and fibers matching
Post by bigdog
the blanket he used to store his rifle. If you don't think he brought the
package to work with him that morning, when do you think he brought it in
and what do you think was in it?
I don't believe that fibers and fingerprints have a time-and-date stamp on
them....
Post by bigdog
Even someone as obstinate as Chris/mainframetech accepts the fact Oswald
brought his rifle to work that day. He just thinks it was for show and
tell.
And you are righteously stubborn, not "obstinate", like Chris....
dcw CUT (more later)
donald willis
2018-06-26 19:50:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Donald, some questions: CUT
That was its normal place. When Marina took the police out to the garage
to show them where he kept his rifle, she gasped when she saw the blanked
was empty.
Post by donald willis
7) Did he leave his wife, at Mrs. Paine's home, his wedding ring and
almost all the money he possessed?
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported that it was found
"on a lower floor". And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police radio outside)
at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing of the (noisy) discovery
of the rifle--at about that same time--on the floor which they were on!
Lot's of misinformation gets passed around in the aftermath of an event.
Film footage shows the rifle was on the 6th floor.
How do you know that? Was there a sign inside saying, "You are on the
sixth floor now"? Actually, there was a stenciled "5" on a pillar by the
rifle-discovery site. Now you may say that that "5" indicates, say,
maximum number of employees allowed on the floor, but a more likely
explanation is that the number refers to the floor number....


When there is
Post by bigdog
conflicting evidence the intelligent thing to do is ask what the
preponderance of evidence indicates. Conspiracy hobbyists always go with
whatever explanation exonerates Oswald because that is all they are
interested in doing. Finding the truth has no appeal for them.
That's not what I'm "interested in doing". I think Oswald played some
(small) role in the plot, or his fellow plotters could not have kept him
busy inside the building and thus available for the "patsy" role. DVP
will be glad to tell you that I once toyed with the idea that Oswald WAS a
shooter, but shot from the FIFTH floor. I have pretty much discarded that
idea, but still think that he had a role to play....
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Attaboy. Ignore the witnesses who placed the shooter on the 6th floor.
The outside witnesses, to a man, said that the shooter fired from a wide
open window (see below for definition).
Post by bigdog
Ignore the recovered shells.
Recovered by Fritz and placed there.

Ignore the rifle bag found nearby.

But not photographed in situ, for never-satisfactorily-explained reasons.

Pretend a
Post by bigdog
rifle wasn't found on the 6th floor.
I have dealt with this elsewhere in the last 24 hours.

Pretend fingerprints from the owner
Post by bigdog
of that rifle weren't found in the nest. Whatever you need to do to
maintain your delusions, go with it.
Post by donald willis
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
How many inches constitutes "wide open"?
I turn you over to witness Howard Brennan here. He testified that the
shooter fired from a window open "just like the windows on the 5th floor",
just below the "nest". So, check any of the photos of the upper floors of
the TSBD taken about 12:30, and you will see what constitutes "wide open".

Most pointedly, Brennan did NOT say that the shooter's window was open
halfway, as in the photos taken about 12:30 show the "nest" window was.
Counsel David Belin for some reason did not tell Brennan, until later,
that the photo he, Brennan, was looking at was taken just after the
shooting. (Actually, Belin said this just in passing, and Brennan may not
have been paying attention, since it wasn't a question.) We can only
speculate what Brennan would have said had he been fully informed....

dcw
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-27 15:05:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Donald, some questions: CUT
That was its normal place. When Marina took the police out to the garage
to show them where he kept his rifle, she gasped when she saw the blanked
was empty.
Post by donald willis
7) Did he leave his wife, at Mrs. Paine's home, his wedding ring and
almost all the money he possessed?
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported that it was found
"on a lower floor". And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police radio outside)
at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing of the (noisy) discovery
of the rifle--at about that same time--on the floor which they were on!
Lot's of misinformation gets passed around in the aftermath of an event.
Film footage shows the rifle was on the 6th floor.
How do you know that? Was there a sign inside saying, "You are on the
sixth floor now"? Actually, there was a stenciled "5" on a pillar by the
rifle-discovery site. Now you may say that that "5" indicates, say,
maximum number of employees allowed on the floor, but a more likely
explanation is that the number refers to the floor number....
I think you can tell by the layout and where the boxes were.
Post by donald willis
When there is
Post by bigdog
conflicting evidence the intelligent thing to do is ask what the
preponderance of evidence indicates. Conspiracy hobbyists always go with
whatever explanation exonerates Oswald because that is all they are
interested in doing. Finding the truth has no appeal for them.
That's not what I'm "interested in doing". I think Oswald played some
(small) role in the plot, or his fellow plotters could not have kept him
busy inside the building and thus available for the "patsy" role. DVP
will be glad to tell you that I once toyed with the idea that Oswald WAS a
shooter, but shot from the FIFTH floor. I have pretty much discarded that
idea, but still think that he had a role to play....
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Attaboy. Ignore the witnesses who placed the shooter on the 6th floor.
The outside witnesses, to a man, said that the shooter fired from a wide
open window (see below for definition).
Post by bigdog
Ignore the recovered shells.
Recovered by Fritz and placed there.
Ignore the rifle bag found nearby.
But not photographed in situ, for never-satisfactorily-explained reasons.
Pretend a
Post by bigdog
rifle wasn't found on the 6th floor.
I have dealt with this elsewhere in the last 24 hours.
Pretend fingerprints from the owner
Post by bigdog
of that rifle weren't found in the nest. Whatever you need to do to
maintain your delusions, go with it.
Post by donald willis
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
How many inches constitutes "wide open"?
I turn you over to witness Howard Brennan here. He testified that the
shooter fired from a window open "just like the windows on the 5th floor",
just below the "nest". So, check any of the photos of the upper floors of
the TSBD taken about 12:30, and you will see what constitutes "wide open".
Just like as in design? But wasn't the design of the facade just a
little bt diffeent for the 6th floor?
Post by donald willis
Most pointedly, Brennan did NOT say that the shooter's window was open
halfway, as in the photos taken about 12:30 show the "nest" window was.
Counsel David Belin for some reason did not tell Brennan, until later,
that the photo he, Brennan, was looking at was taken just after the
shooting. (Actually, Belin said this just in passing, and Brennan may not
have been paying attention, since it wasn't a question.) We can only
speculate what Brennan would have said had he been fully informed....
dcw
donald willis
2018-06-28 01:57:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by donald willis
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Donald, some questions: CUT
That was its normal place. When Marina took the police out to the garage
to show them where he kept his rifle, she gasped when she saw the blanked
was empty.
Post by donald willis
7) Did he leave his wife, at Mrs. Paine's home, his wedding ring and
almost all the money he possessed?
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported that it was found
"on a lower floor". And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police radio outside)
at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing of the (noisy) discovery
of the rifle--at about that same time--on the floor which they were on!
Lot's of misinformation gets passed around in the aftermath of an event.
Film footage shows the rifle was on the 6th floor.
How do you know that? Was there a sign inside saying, "You are on the
sixth floor now"? Actually, there was a stenciled "5" on a pillar by the
rifle-discovery site. Now you may say that that "5" indicates, say,
maximum number of employees allowed on the floor, but a more likely
explanation is that the number refers to the floor number....
I think you can tell by the layout and where the boxes were.
But I think that the 5th, 6th, & 7th floors were all storage areas. Do we
have footage of that area other than when the rifle was found?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by donald willis
When there is
Post by bigdog
conflicting evidence the intelligent thing to do is ask what the
preponderance of evidence indicates. Conspiracy hobbyists always go with
whatever explanation exonerates Oswald because that is all they are
interested in doing. Finding the truth has no appeal for them.
That's not what I'm "interested in doing". I think Oswald played some
(small) role in the plot, or his fellow plotters could not have kept him
busy inside the building and thus available for the "patsy" role. DVP
will be glad to tell you that I once toyed with the idea that Oswald WAS a
shooter, but shot from the FIFTH floor. I have pretty much discarded that
idea, but still think that he had a role to play....
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Attaboy. Ignore the witnesses who placed the shooter on the 6th floor.
The outside witnesses, to a man, said that the shooter fired from a wide
open window (see below for definition).
Post by bigdog
Ignore the recovered shells.
Recovered by Fritz and placed there.
Ignore the rifle bag found nearby.
But not photographed in situ, for never-satisfactorily-explained reasons.
Pretend a
Post by bigdog
rifle wasn't found on the 6th floor.
I have dealt with this elsewhere in the last 24 hours.
Pretend fingerprints from the owner
Post by bigdog
of that rifle weren't found in the nest. Whatever you need to do to
maintain your delusions, go with it.
Post by donald willis
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
How many inches constitutes "wide open"?
I turn you over to witness Howard Brennan here. He testified that the
shooter fired from a window open "just like the windows on the 5th floor",
just below the "nest". So, check any of the photos of the upper floors of
the TSBD taken about 12:30, and you will see what constitutes "wide open".
Just like as in design? But wasn't the design of the facade just a
little bt diffeent for the 6th floor?
How would that affect how wide the windows could be open? Or am I missing
the point here?

dw
Mark
2018-06-27 19:54:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Donald, some questions: CUT
That was its normal place. When Marina took the police out to the garage
to show them where he kept his rifle, she gasped when she saw the blanked
was empty.
Post by donald willis
7) Did he leave his wife, at Mrs. Paine's home, his wedding ring and
almost all the money he possessed?
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported that it was found
"on a lower floor". And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police radio outside)
at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing of the (noisy) discovery
of the rifle--at about that same time--on the floor which they were on!
Lot's of misinformation gets passed around in the aftermath of an event.
Film footage shows the rifle was on the 6th floor.
How do you know that? Was there a sign inside saying, "You are on the
sixth floor now"? Actually, there was a stenciled "5" on a pillar by the
rifle-discovery site. Now you may say that that "5" indicates, say,
maximum number of employees allowed on the floor, but a more likely
explanation is that the number refers to the floor number....
When there is
Post by bigdog
conflicting evidence the intelligent thing to do is ask what the
preponderance of evidence indicates. Conspiracy hobbyists always go with
whatever explanation exonerates Oswald because that is all they are
interested in doing. Finding the truth has no appeal for them.
That's not what I'm "interested in doing". I think Oswald played some
(small) role in the plot, or his fellow plotters could not have kept him
busy inside the building and thus available for the "patsy" role. DVP
will be glad to tell you that I once toyed with the idea that Oswald WAS a
shooter, but shot from the FIFTH floor. I have pretty much discarded that
idea, but still think that he had a role to play....
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Attaboy. Ignore the witnesses who placed the shooter on the 6th floor.
The outside witnesses, to a man, said that the shooter fired from a wide
open window (see below for definition).
Post by bigdog
Ignore the recovered shells.
Recovered by Fritz and placed there.
Ignore the rifle bag found nearby.
But not photographed in situ, for never-satisfactorily-explained reasons.
Pretend a
Post by bigdog
rifle wasn't found on the 6th floor.
I have dealt with this elsewhere in the last 24 hours.
Pretend fingerprints from the owner
Post by bigdog
of that rifle weren't found in the nest. Whatever you need to do to
maintain your delusions, go with it.
Post by donald willis
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
How many inches constitutes "wide open"?
I turn you over to witness Howard Brennan here. He testified that the
shooter fired from a window open "just like the windows on the 5th floor",
just below the "nest". So, check any of the photos of the upper floors of
the TSBD taken about 12:30, and you will see what constitutes "wide open".
Most pointedly, Brennan did NOT say that the shooter's window was open
halfway, as in the photos taken about 12:30 show the "nest" window was.
Counsel David Belin for some reason did not tell Brennan, until later,
that the photo he, Brennan, was looking at was taken just after the
shooting. (Actually, Belin said this just in passing, and Brennan may not
have been paying attention, since it wasn't a question.) We can only
speculate what Brennan would have said had he been fully informed....
dcw
For starters, Donald, the local Dallas reporter and his camera man had to
be in on it, right?, and never say "hey, wait a minute the cops found the
rifle on the 5th floor" for close to 55 years? More later.

Mark
donald willis
2018-06-28 20:04:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Donald, some questions: CUT
That was its normal place. When Marina took the police out to the garage
to show them where he kept his rifle, she gasped when she saw the blanked
was empty.
Post by donald willis
7) Did he leave his wife, at Mrs. Paine's home, his wedding ring and
almost all the money he possessed?
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported that it was found
"on a lower floor". And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police radio outside)
at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing of the (noisy) discovery
of the rifle--at about that same time--on the floor which they were on!
Lot's of misinformation gets passed around in the aftermath of an event.
Film footage shows the rifle was on the 6th floor.
How do you know that? Was there a sign inside saying, "You are on the
sixth floor now"? Actually, there was a stenciled "5" on a pillar by the
rifle-discovery site. Now you may say that that "5" indicates, say,
maximum number of employees allowed on the floor, but a more likely
explanation is that the number refers to the floor number....
When there is
Post by bigdog
conflicting evidence the intelligent thing to do is ask what the
preponderance of evidence indicates. Conspiracy hobbyists always go with
whatever explanation exonerates Oswald because that is all they are
interested in doing. Finding the truth has no appeal for them.
That's not what I'm "interested in doing". I think Oswald played some
(small) role in the plot, or his fellow plotters could not have kept him
busy inside the building and thus available for the "patsy" role. DVP
will be glad to tell you that I once toyed with the idea that Oswald WAS a
shooter, but shot from the FIFTH floor. I have pretty much discarded that
idea, but still think that he had a role to play....
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Attaboy. Ignore the witnesses who placed the shooter on the 6th floor.
The outside witnesses, to a man, said that the shooter fired from a wide
open window (see below for definition).
Post by bigdog
Ignore the recovered shells.
Recovered by Fritz and placed there.
Ignore the rifle bag found nearby.
But not photographed in situ, for never-satisfactorily-explained reasons.
Pretend a
Post by bigdog
rifle wasn't found on the 6th floor.
I have dealt with this elsewhere in the last 24 hours.
Pretend fingerprints from the owner
Post by bigdog
of that rifle weren't found in the nest. Whatever you need to do to
maintain your delusions, go with it.
Post by donald willis
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
How many inches constitutes "wide open"?
I turn you over to witness Howard Brennan here. He testified that the
shooter fired from a window open "just like the windows on the 5th floor",
just below the "nest". So, check any of the photos of the upper floors of
the TSBD taken about 12:30, and you will see what constitutes "wide open".
Most pointedly, Brennan did NOT say that the shooter's window was open
halfway, as in the photos taken about 12:30 show the "nest" window was.
Counsel David Belin for some reason did not tell Brennan, until later,
that the photo he, Brennan, was looking at was taken just after the
shooting. (Actually, Belin said this just in passing, and Brennan may not
have been paying attention, since it wasn't a question.) We can only
speculate what Brennan would have said had he been fully informed....
dcw
For starters, Donald, the local Dallas reporter and his camera man had to
be in on it, right?, and never say "hey, wait a minute the cops found the
rifle on the 5th floor" for close to 55 years? More later.
Mark
Tom Alyea was the photog and he has posted reminiscences which alternately
confirm and contradict the official 6th-floor story. For instance, he has
said that Deputy Luke Mooney was not even there when the shells were
found, and Mooney said that he alone found them! And Alyea has also said
that there were no chicken bones on the 6th floor, though several deputies
said that there were, around the "nest". The police photographer backed
Alyea on this latter point, and added that if chicken bones had been found
on the 6th floor, they'd appear in his photos! So neither of us can use
the "local cameraman" without caveats....

dcw
InsideSparta
2018-06-27 19:57:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Donald, some questions: CUT
That was its normal place. When Marina took the police out to the garage
to show them where he kept his rifle, she gasped when she saw the blanked
was empty.
Post by donald willis
7) Did he leave his wife, at Mrs. Paine's home, his wedding ring and
almost all the money he possessed?
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported that it was found
"on a lower floor". And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police radio outside)
at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing of the (noisy) discovery
of the rifle--at about that same time--on the floor which they were on!
Lot's of misinformation gets passed around in the aftermath of an event.
Film footage shows the rifle was on the 6th floor.
How do you know that? Was there a sign inside saying, "You are on the
sixth floor now"? Actually, there was a stenciled "5" on a pillar by the
rifle-discovery site. Now you may say that that "5" indicates, say,
maximum number of employees allowed on the floor, but a more likely
explanation is that the number refers to the floor number....
Actually, in large warehouses, especially older ones with a large number
of internal pillars, it is common to number the pillars in order to locate
goods quicker. For a building like the TSBD, it would be common practice
to have the pillars numbered. That way, in the register, the location of
books would be designated by the closest pillar number. So, if the
register said the books were located at location 6-5, it would mean pillar
number 5 on the 6th floor.
Post by donald willis
When there is
Post by bigdog
conflicting evidence the intelligent thing to do is ask what the
preponderance of evidence indicates. Conspiracy hobbyists always go with
whatever explanation exonerates Oswald because that is all they are
interested in doing. Finding the truth has no appeal for them.
That's not what I'm "interested in doing". I think Oswald played some
(small) role in the plot, or his fellow plotters could not have kept him
busy inside the building and thus available for the "patsy" role. DVP
will be glad to tell you that I once toyed with the idea that Oswald WAS a
shooter, but shot from the FIFTH floor. I have pretty much discarded that
idea, but still think that he had a role to play....
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Attaboy. Ignore the witnesses who placed the shooter on the 6th floor.
The outside witnesses, to a man, said that the shooter fired from a wide
open window (see below for definition).
Post by bigdog
Ignore the recovered shells.
Recovered by Fritz and placed there.
Ignore the rifle bag found nearby.
But not photographed in situ, for never-satisfactorily-explained reasons.
Pretend a
Post by bigdog
rifle wasn't found on the 6th floor.
I have dealt with this elsewhere in the last 24 hours.
Pretend fingerprints from the owner
Post by bigdog
of that rifle weren't found in the nest. Whatever you need to do to
maintain your delusions, go with it.
Post by donald willis
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
How many inches constitutes "wide open"?
I turn you over to witness Howard Brennan here. He testified that the
shooter fired from a window open "just like the windows on the 5th floor",
just below the "nest". So, check any of the photos of the upper floors of
the TSBD taken about 12:30, and you will see what constitutes "wide open".
Most pointedly, Brennan did NOT say that the shooter's window was open
halfway, as in the photos taken about 12:30 show the "nest" window was.
Counsel David Belin for some reason did not tell Brennan, until later,
that the photo he, Brennan, was looking at was taken just after the
shooting. (Actually, Belin said this just in passing, and Brennan may not
have been paying attention, since it wasn't a question.) We can only
speculate what Brennan would have said had he been fully informed....
dcw
Mark
2018-06-28 14:30:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Donald, some questions: CUT
That was its normal place. When Marina took the police out to the garage
to show them where he kept his rifle, she gasped when she saw the blanked
was empty.
Post by donald willis
7) Did he leave his wife, at Mrs. Paine's home, his wedding ring and
almost all the money he possessed?
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported that it was found
"on a lower floor". And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police radio outside)
at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing of the (noisy) discovery
of the rifle--at about that same time--on the floor which they were on!
Lot's of misinformation gets passed around in the aftermath of an event.
Film footage shows the rifle was on the 6th floor.
How do you know that? Was there a sign inside saying, "You are on the
sixth floor now"? Actually, there was a stenciled "5" on a pillar by the
rifle-discovery site. Now you may say that that "5" indicates, say,
maximum number of employees allowed on the floor, but a more likely
explanation is that the number refers to the floor number....
Actually, in large warehouses, especially older ones with a large number
of internal pillars, it is common to number the pillars in order to locate
goods quicker. For a building like the TSBD, it would be common practice
to have the pillars numbered. That way, in the register, the location of
books would be designated by the closest pillar number. So, if the
register said the books were located at location 6-5, it would mean pillar
number 5 on the 6th floor.
Sounds logical to me. Donald, have you ever called The Sixth Floor Museum
and asked them about your claim, to see if they have information about the
meaning of the pillar numbers? Mark
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-29 00:47:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Donald, some questions: CUT
That was its normal place. When Marina took the police out to the garage
to show them where he kept his rifle, she gasped when she saw the blanked
was empty.
Post by donald willis
7) Did he leave his wife, at Mrs. Paine's home, his wedding ring and
almost all the money he possessed?
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported that it was found
"on a lower floor". And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police radio outside)
at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing of the (noisy) discovery
of the rifle--at about that same time--on the floor which they were on!
Lot's of misinformation gets passed around in the aftermath of an event.
Film footage shows the rifle was on the 6th floor.
How do you know that? Was there a sign inside saying, "You are on the
sixth floor now"? Actually, there was a stenciled "5" on a pillar by the
rifle-discovery site. Now you may say that that "5" indicates, say,
maximum number of employees allowed on the floor, but a more likely
explanation is that the number refers to the floor number....
Actually, in large warehouses, especially older ones with a large number
of internal pillars, it is common to number the pillars in order to locate
goods quicker. For a building like the TSBD, it would be common practice
to have the pillars numbered. That way, in the register, the location of
books would be designated by the closest pillar number. So, if the
register said the books were located at location 6-5, it would mean pillar
number 5 on the 6th floor.
Sounds logical to me. Donald, have you ever called The Sixth Floor Museum
and asked them about your claim, to see if they have information about the
meaning of the pillar numbers? Mark
My God, man, don't even think of checking the WC documents. Never do any
actual research.
donald willis
2018-06-29 16:15:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Donald, some questions: CUT
That was its normal place. When Marina took the police out to the garage
to show them where he kept his rifle, she gasped when she saw the blanked
was empty.
Post by donald willis
7) Did he leave his wife, at Mrs. Paine's home, his wedding ring and
almost all the money he possessed?
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported that it was found
"on a lower floor". And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police radio outside)
at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing of the (noisy) discovery
of the rifle--at about that same time--on the floor which they were on!
Lot's of misinformation gets passed around in the aftermath of an event.
Film footage shows the rifle was on the 6th floor.
How do you know that? Was there a sign inside saying, "You are on the
sixth floor now"? Actually, there was a stenciled "5" on a pillar by the
rifle-discovery site. Now you may say that that "5" indicates, say,
maximum number of employees allowed on the floor, but a more likely
explanation is that the number refers to the floor number....
Actually, in large warehouses, especially older ones with a large number
of internal pillars, it is common to number the pillars in order to locate
goods quicker. For a building like the TSBD, it would be common practice
to have the pillars numbered. That way, in the register, the location of
books would be designated by the closest pillar number. So, if the
register said the books were located at location 6-5, it would mean pillar
number 5 on the 6th floor.
Sounds logical to me. Donald, have you ever called The Sixth Floor Museum
and asked them about your claim, to see if they have information about the
meaning of the pillar numbers? Mark
As noted in the post today, I agree. But I guess I ASSumed [c.A. Marsh]
that the pillars would have been painted over by the time there was a
museum....

dcw
donald willis
2018-06-28 19:58:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Donald, some questions: CUT
That was its normal place. When Marina took the police out to the garage
to show them where he kept his rifle, she gasped when she saw the blanked
was empty.
Post by donald willis
7) Did he leave his wife, at Mrs. Paine's home, his wedding ring and
almost all the money he possessed?
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported that it was found
"on a lower floor". And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police radio outside)
at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing of the (noisy) discovery
of the rifle--at about that same time--on the floor which they were on!
Lot's of misinformation gets passed around in the aftermath of an event.
Film footage shows the rifle was on the 6th floor.
How do you know that? Was there a sign inside saying, "You are on the
sixth floor now"? Actually, there was a stenciled "5" on a pillar by the
rifle-discovery site. Now you may say that that "5" indicates, say,
maximum number of employees allowed on the floor, but a more likely
explanation is that the number refers to the floor number....
Actually, in large warehouses, especially older ones with a large number
of internal pillars, it is common to number the pillars in order to locate
goods quicker. For a building like the TSBD, it would be common practice
to have the pillars numbered. That way, in the register, the location of
books would be designated by the closest pillar number. So, if the
register said the books were located at location 6-5, it would mean pillar
number 5 on the 6th floor.
Good info! Don't know if there were enough photos taken of the 5th & 6th
floors to determine if this was the system used there. The photos on
pages 166 and 172 of "JFK First Day Evidence" show a few of the pillars,
but not on sides with stenciled numbers. Ten or so years ago, the LN
argument against my idea (or maybe Walt C's idea) was that that was just
another mark on a pillar. But it's clearly a stenciled "5". But I think
your lead is on the mark....

dcw
claviger
2018-06-26 02:21:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Wow! The 3 man Hit Team exposed!
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Cite please.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?
Was it there in the first place?
Yes two witnesses: Marina and the blanket.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported
that it was found "on a lower floor".
What ATF man?
Post by donald willis
And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police
radio outside) at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing
of the (noisy) discovery of the rifle--at about that same time--
on the floor which they were on!
Ahaa! The plot thickens!!!
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Not used by any sniper? Where did the real shots come from?
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
Do you doubt he saw a man in the window? Several witness saw a man
or rifle in the same window.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
Amos Euins never said that. A witness claims he overheard Euins say that.
Euins denies he ever said anything like that. Read his official signed
same day statement.

http://alt.assassination.jfk.narkive.com/Ke9RNuaD/amos-euins-sworn-statement-and-testimony
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
I could go one with the ballistic and medical evidence. I just wonder how
you square your Posts on here with the, IMO, overwhelming circumstantial
evidence of Oswald's guilt. Mark
bigdog's phrase is "mountain of evidence". There's also a mountain of
evidence now AGAINST Oswald's guilt....
dcw
More like a cow patty size "mountain".
John McAdams
2018-06-26 02:23:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Wow! The 3 man Hit Team exposed!
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Cite please.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?
Was it there in the first place?
Yes two witnesses: Marina and the blanket.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported
that it was found "on a lower floor".
What ATF man?
Post by donald willis
And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police
radio outside) at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing
of the (noisy) discovery of the rifle--at about that same time--
on the floor which they were on!
Ahaa! The plot thickens!!!
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Not used by any sniper? Where did the real shots come from?
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
Do you doubt he saw a man in the window? Several witness saw a man
or rifle in the same window.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
Amos Euins never said that. A witness claims he overheard Euins say that.
Euins denies he ever said anything like that. Read his official signed
same day statement.
http://alt.assassination.jfk.narkive.com/Ke9RNuaD/amos-euins-sworn-statement-and-testimony
Note that *if* Euins said that (and the reporter who claimed that
could have been mistaken), that would be quite an understandable
error.

Bullets are flying, and he looks up and sees one of the black men on
the 5th floor.

Active shooter situations are not congenial to cool, careful
observation. Especially by a 14 year old with no military experience.

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-27 15:02:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by John McAdams
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Wow! The 3 man Hit Team exposed!
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Cite please.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?
Was it there in the first place?
Yes two witnesses: Marina and the blanket.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported
that it was found "on a lower floor".
What ATF man?
Post by donald willis
And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police
radio outside) at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing
of the (noisy) discovery of the rifle--at about that same time--
on the floor which they were on!
Ahaa! The plot thickens!!!
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Not used by any sniper? Where did the real shots come from?
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
Do you doubt he saw a man in the window? Several witness saw a man
or rifle in the same window.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
Amos Euins never said that. A witness claims he overheard Euins say that.
Euins denies he ever said anything like that. Read his official signed
same day statement.
http://alt.assassination.jfk.narkive.com/Ke9RNuaD/amos-euins-sworn-statement-and-testimony
Note that *if* Euins said that (and the reporter who claimed that
could have been mistaken), that would be quite an understandable
error.
OMG, you figured that out all by yourself? Or did you see me saying it
40 years ago. Never rely on witnesses. Plus Euins lied about where he
was and only *I* showed him where he actually was on Elm pointing up at
the sniper's nest.
Post by John McAdams
Bullets are flying, and he looks up and sees one of the black men on
the 5th floor.
Active shooter situations are not congenial to cool, careful
observation. Especially by a 14 year old with no military experience.
OK<. then don't ever cite Brennan. Now who you got?
Post by John McAdams
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
donald willis
2018-06-28 01:45:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by John McAdams
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Wow! The 3 man Hit Team exposed!
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Cite please.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?
Was it there in the first place?
Yes two witnesses: Marina and the blanket.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported
that it was found "on a lower floor".
What ATF man?
Post by donald willis
And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police
radio outside) at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing
of the (noisy) discovery of the rifle--at about that same time--
on the floor which they were on!
Ahaa! The plot thickens!!!
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Not used by any sniper? Where did the real shots come from?
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
Do you doubt he saw a man in the window? Several witness saw a man
or rifle in the same window.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
Amos Euins never said that. A witness claims he overheard Euins say that.
Euins denies he ever said anything like that. Read his official signed
same day statement.
http://alt.assassination.jfk.narkive.com/Ke9RNuaD/amos-euins-sworn-statement-and-testimony
Note that *if* Euins said that (and the reporter who claimed that
could have been mistaken)
Doubtful. Reporter Kent Biffle overheard Euins telling that to a cop. But
another reporter James Underwood, actually questioned Euins, who told him
he saw a "colored man". Underwood asked him if he were sure, and Euins
said he was. It's in Underwood's Commission testimony.

, that would be quite an understandable
Post by John McAdams
error.
Bullets are flying, and he looks up and sees one of the black men on
the 5th floor.
That's all I'm saying, thank you. Does this mean we're in agreement on
something? A first, or second. Of course that still means that Euins'
later affidavit, interviews, and testimony reflected some kind of
"evolution", but I won't put my own spin on that....
Post by John McAdams
Active shooter situations are not congenial to cool, careful
observation. Especially by a 14 year old with no military experience.
I think I've read that he was in the ROTC, though.

dcw
John McAdams
2018-06-28 01:48:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by John McAdams
Post by claviger
Amos Euins never said that. A witness claims he overheard Euins say that.
Euins denies he ever said anything like that. Read his official signed
same day statement.
http://alt.assassination.jfk.narkive.com/Ke9RNuaD/amos-euins-sworn-statement-and-testimony
Note that *if* Euins said that (and the reporter who claimed that
could have been mistaken)
Doubtful. Reporter Kent Biffle overheard Euins telling that to a cop.
Post a link to Kent Biffle saying that.
Post by donald willis
But
another reporter James Underwood, actually questioned Euins, who told him
he saw a "colored man". Underwood asked him if he were sure, and Euins
said he was. It's in Underwood's Commission testimony.
, that would be quite an understandable
Post by John McAdams
error.
Bullets are flying, and he looks up and sees one of the black men on
the 5th floor.
That's all I'm saying, thank you. Does this mean we're in agreement on
something? A first, or second. Of course that still means that Euins'
later affidavit, interviews, and testimony reflected some kind of
"evolution", but I won't put my own spin on that....
Excellent. If he changed his testimony, it doesn't mean Evil Minions
of the Conspiracy got to him and forced him to lie.

It would just mean that he was embarrassed he said something at odds
with what everybody else was saying, and backed off.

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
donald willis
2018-06-29 16:14:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by John McAdams
Post by donald willis
Post by John McAdams
Post by claviger
Amos Euins never said that. A witness claims he overheard Euins say that.
Euins denies he ever said anything like that. Read his official signed
same day statement.
http://alt.assassination.jfk.narkive.com/Ke9RNuaD/amos-euins-sworn-statement-and-testimony
Note that *if* Euins said that (and the reporter who claimed that
could have been mistaken)
Doubtful. Reporter Kent Biffle overheard Euins telling that to a cop.
Post a link to Kent Biffle saying that.
It was an article from the '64 Dallas Morning News, reprinted by the DMN
about 2002. I did have a hard copy of the article, but (a) I've misplaced
it, along with a bunch of other newspaper & book articles, and (b) it's no
longer available at the website, last I looked....

I believe that Biffle said he saw a young black man talking to a(n)
(unidentified) cop, and Biffle said the former said pretty much the same
thing that Underwood testified that Euins said.
Post by John McAdams
Post by donald willis
But
another reporter James Underwood, actually questioned Euins, who told him
he saw a "colored man". Underwood asked him if he were sure, and Euins
said he was. It's in Underwood's Commission testimony.
, that would be quite an understandable
Post by John McAdams
error.
Bullets are flying, and he looks up and sees one of the black men on
the 5th floor.
That's all I'm saying, thank you. Does this mean we're in agreement on
something? A first, or second. Of course that still means that Euins'
later affidavit, interviews, and testimony reflected some kind of
"evolution", but I won't put my own spin on that....
Excellent. If he changed his testimony, it doesn't mean Evil Minions
of the Conspiracy got to him and forced him to lie.
It would just mean that he was embarrassed he said something at odds
with what everybody else was saying, and backed off.
Let's amend one letter there, to "It Could just mean...." Or it might
not.... For a moment, this is the no spin zone....

dcw
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-30 01:11:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by John McAdams
Post by donald willis
Post by John McAdams
Post by claviger
Amos Euins never said that. A witness claims he overheard Euins say that.
Euins denies he ever said anything like that. Read his official signed
same day statement.
http://alt.assassination.jfk.narkive.com/Ke9RNuaD/amos-euins-sworn-statement-and-testimony
Note that *if* Euins said that (and the reporter who claimed that
could have been mistaken)
Doubtful. Reporter Kent Biffle overheard Euins telling that to a cop.
Post a link to Kent Biffle saying that.
Amos Euins tells two reporters that he saw a "colored man" shooting from
an upper floor of the depository. (Kent Biffle, DMN, 1964/James Underwood
v6p170)


Testimony Of James Robert Underwood
The testimony of James Robert Underwood was taken at 11:25 a.m., on
April 1, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office
Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Joseph A. Ball,
assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

Mr. Ball.
Mr. Underwood, will you stand up and be sworn?

(Complying.)

Mr. Ball.
Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give before
this Commission shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help you God?
Mr. Underwood.
I do.
Mr. Ball.
Will you state your name, please?
Mr. Underwood.
My name is James Robert Underwood.
Mr. Ball.
Your occupation?
Mr. Underwood.
I am the assistant news director of KRLD-TV and radio in Dallas.
Mr. Ball.
On November 22, 1963, you were in the motorcade, the Presidential
motorcade?
Mr. Underwood.
Yes, sir; I was three cars behind the President.
Mr. Ball.
Who was in the car with you?
Mr. Underwood.
There was a photographer from channel 5, WBAP-TV, whose name is
James Darnell, and a photographer from the Dallas Morning News--- I know
his name but I can't think of it right now----
Mr. Ball.
Tom Dillard?
Mr. Underwood.
Yes; Tom Dillard, and a photographer from the Dallas Times-Herald
whose name is Bob Jackson, also a photographer from WFAA-TV and I do not
know his name. I heard it but I don't remember it.
Mr. Ball.
There was a driver, also?
Mr. Underwood.
Yes; the driver I later found out was a member of the department of
public safety.
Mr. Ball.
You are a photographer, also?
Mr. Underwood.
Yes, sir; I wear many hats in my business but one of which is news
photographer.
Mr. Ball.
Did you have your camera with you that day?
Mr. Underwood.
Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. Ball.
What is your experience; where were you born; where did you go to
school; how did you get to get the experience that fit you for your
present job? Just in your own. words, tell me something about yourself.
Mr. Underwood.
I was born in Oklahoma City, Okla., in 1922; I served in the Marine
Corps from 1940 until 1943, almost 4 years, and after that I attended the
University of Tulsa and after that I worked---I began working in radio as
an announcer while I was going to college. When I got out of college, I
went to Corpus Christi, Tex. That was about 1947 and I became program
director and news director of a radio station in Corpus Christi and I
stayed there until 1950 when I went to a station in Jacksonville, Fla.,
where I was also program director and news director, and in 1953, I came
to Dallas, and I worked for a year and a half for WFAA-TV as an announcer,
then I freelanced in television and radio from September of 1954 until
November---and I have to count for a minute 6 years this November that
would be until November 1958 when I went to work for KRLD-TV and Radio
News and shortly thereafter I became assistant news director but I earned
part of my living, I still freelance in television which is all freelance
in televisi on and I have a regular job which entails every type of
reporting, including photography which I enjoy doing. Mr. Ball.
On the day of the assassination, you were in the motorcade with
these men you mentioned and you think your car was third behind the
Presidential car?
Mr. Underwood.
Yes; and I thought it was six or seven. I shot sound on film of the
President's arrival and Vice President's arrival at Dallas Love Field the
morning he came in on the 22d and then I took off the rather cumbersome
sound on film equipment and took my hand camera because I had an assigned
place in the motorcade and I could not tell out there because of the many
people I could not tell what position we were in. I could not see that far
ahead to determine exactly where we were in the motorcade, although I knew
we were in the front of it. The motorcade stopped once on the way
downtown, this was briefly, and I jumped over this side---we were in
a---convertible and ran toward the President's car and I was aware of the
crowd and the motorcade immediately started and I ran back to the
convertible, not wanting to be left, and looking afterward at the films
that I took there, I could then count the cars there. I realized we were
three behind him, according to my movies we took. When we turned onto Main
Street downto wn and headed west toward the scene of where the
assassination took place, either the regulator or the mainspring in my
camera broke and I was without a camera. I knew that we had two men, at
least two men on the parade route who were on the street and would be
filming the motorcade as we came by and I hoped to exchange my broken
camera for one of theirs because I knew I could make more use of the one
that would operate. The only problem was we went down Main Street so
rapidly it would have been impossible to get anything from someone
standing on the street and at Main and Record one of our men was stationed
and I tried to holier at him my camera was broken and I wanted to switch
and I started to and there was no point in it because we passed there that
rapidly. I thought it was the fastest motorcade that passed through a
crowd; this was really moving, as far as I was concerned. Then, we came to
the scene where the shots were fired. Do you want me to go on?
Mr. Ball.
From the time you turned, tell me what you observed after you made
the turn at Main and Houston to drive north on Houston.
Mr. Underwood.
After we turned onto Houston Street, the car I was in was about, as
far as I can remember, about in the middle of the block or a little bit
north of the center of the block, which is a short block, when I heard
the first shot.
Mr. Ball.
Between Main and Elm?
Mr. Underwood.
Yes; between Main and Elm, closer to the Elm intersection, Elm and
Houston intersection, when I heard the first shot fired. I thought it was
an explosion. I have heard many rifles fired but it did not sound like a
rifle to me. Evidently must have been a reverberation from the buildings
.or something. I believe I said to one of the other fellows it sounds like
a giant firecracker and the car I was in was about in the intersection of
Elm and Houston when I heard a second shot fired and moments later a third
shot fired and I realized that they were by that time, the last two shots,
I realized they were coming from overhead.
Mr. Ball.
You realized they were coming from overhead and that would be from
what source?
Mr. Underwood.
That would be from the Texas School Book Depository Building.
Mr. Ball.
It sounded like they were coming from that direction?
Mr. Underwood.
Yes, sir; the last two. Now, the first was just a loud explosion but
it sounded like a giant firecracker or something had gone off. By the time
the third shot was fired, the car I was in stopped almost through the
intersection in front of the Texas School Book Depository Building and I
leaped out of the car before the car stopped. Bob Jackson from the Herald
said he thought he saw a rifle in the window and I looked where he pointed
and I saw nothing. Below the window he was pointing at, I saw two colored
men leaning out there with their heads turned toward the top of the
building, trying, I suppose, to determine where the shots were coming
from.
Mr. Ball.
What words did you hear Bob Jackson say?
Mr. Underwood.
I don't know that I can remember exactly except I did hear him say
words to the effect that "I saw a rifle" and I looked at that instant
and I saw nothing myself. If he saw a rifle, I did not.
Mr. Ball.
At that point when you looked, where was your car?
Mr. Underwood.
Our car was in the intersection, in the intersection of Elm and
Houston Street.
Mr. Ball.
Had it made the turn yet?
Mr. Underwood.
It had partially made the turn or had just begun to make the turn.
Frankly, I was looking up and around and I saw at the same time people
falling on the ground down the street toward the underpass and my first
impression was some of these people falling to the ground had been shot.
Mr. Ball.
Did your car stop?
Mr. Underwood.
Our car stopped and the minute it stopped I leaped out of the car.
Mr. Ball.
Where was your car when it stopped?
Mr. Underwood.
Right in the intersection, perhaps just past the intersection,
turned onto Elm.
Mr. Ball.
Did you get out before the car parked along the curb?
Mr. Underwood.
Yes, sir; the minute it stopped, I leaped over the side.
Mr. Ball.
What did you do?
Mr. Underwood.
I left my camera in the car, the camera that was broken, and ran as
fast as I could back toward the man we had at Record and Main in order
to get a camera. There I was without a camera; the only thought I had
was to get a camera.
Mr. Ball.
Did you get one?
Mr. Underwood.
Yes; I ran the full block back to Main Street and our man there, name
of Sanderson, was running down Main toward Houston. He was running to meet
me, although he didn't know what was happening and that my camera was
broke. Suddenly, motorcycles and sirens had been turned on police cars and
were all headed toward Main. I met him just around the corner on Main past
Houston and grabbed his camera and said, "Someone had been shooting at the
President." I didn't know this but I assumed it happened. I took his
camera and got back to the scene. When I got back to the scene, most of
the people in the area were running up the grassy slope toward the railway
yards just behind the Texas School Book Depository Building. Actually, I
assumed, which is the only thing I could do, I assumed perhaps who had
fired the shots had run in that direction. I recognized at least a dozen
deputy sheriffs running also in that area--it seems to me that many, and I
ran up there and took some films and they were running through the railr
oad yard and they very quickly found nothing and I was having, frankly, a
hard time breathing because I had done more running in those few minutes
than I am used to doing. I gasped out to a couple people--I don't know who
they are that I thought the shots came from that building and one of the
fellows in the car with me said they had seen a rifle barrel in the
building.
Mr. Ball.
This group of men were deputy sheriffs?
Mr. Underwood.
For the most part, yes; I don't think I could recall--Lemmy Lewis I
see in my mind, but I am not sure Lemmy was there. This was a kaleidoscope
of things happening. In my business, you need to make a quick appraisal of
what is happening if you are going to shoot pictures of it. I was confused
and out of breath and unbelieving of what happened.
Mr. Ball.
Where did you go from the grassy slopes?
Mr. Underwood.
I went from the railroad yards--actually, I was back in the track
area---I went immediately with these men at a run to the Texas School
Depository.
Mr. Ball.
Which entrance?
Mr. Underwood.
The front entrance.
Mr. Ball.
On Elm?
Mr. Underwood.
Yes; and I ran down there and I think I took some pictures of some
men--yes, I know I did, going in and out of the building. By that time
there was one police officer there and he was a three-wheeled motorcycle
officer and a little colored boy whose last name I remember as Eunice.
Mr. Ball.
Euins?
Mr. Underwood.
It may have been Euins. It was difficult to understand when he said
his name. He was telling the motorcycle officer he had seen a colored man
lean out of the window upstairs and he had a rifle. He was telling this to
the officer and the officer took him over and put him in a squad car. By
that time, motorcycle officers were arriving, homicide officers were
arriving and I went over and asked this boy if he had seen someone with a
rifle and he said "Yes, sir." I said, "Were they white or black?" He said,
"It was a colored man." I said, "Are you sure it was a colored man?" He
said, "Yes, sir" and I asked him his name and the only thing I could
understand was what I thought his name was Eunice.
Mr. Ball.
Was he about 15?
Mr. Underwood.
I couldn't tell his age; looked to me to be younger. I would have
expected him to be about 10 or 11 years old.
Mr. Ball.
Then what did you do?
Mr. Underwood.
I stayed in front of the building; actually, I stayed in the
intersection of Elm and Houston and took movies of police arriving and
fire--- and I think some fire equipment arrived on the scene, one
firetruck or two fire-trucks, I'm not sure, and I just shot some general
film on the area. I have since searched that film to see if I could see
any face in it that would have been important to this.
Mr. Ball.
Leaving the building?
Mr. Underwood.
Yes; but I haven't found any except that of officers arriving and
just people generally in the area; none of it, though, that you could---I
spent several days at this, I guess during January when things had calmed
down. I was on the side street of the building, around the front of the
building and in the intersection for the next 10 minutes, then I went
across the street to the courthouse and phoned several news reports to
C.B.S. in New York and described what was taking place in the building at
that time. There were firemen with ladders in front of the building and
officers running in and out and they cordoned off the building and kept
the spectators out of the building, but there was quite a time lapse
between the time the shots were fired and the time anyone checked the
building. The main effort was to run to the railroad yards instead of the
School Book Depository.
Mr. Ball.
I think that's all. Mr. Underwood, this will be typed up and you
can waive signature if you wish or you can sign it if you wish.
Mr. Underwood.
I don't have to sign it. I will waive signature.

Source:
Warren Commission Hearings, Vol. VI, p. 167.
This page has been built by RTF2HTML, 1996
Post by John McAdams
Post by donald willis
But
another reporter James Underwood, actually questioned Euins, who told him
he saw a "colored man". Underwood asked him if he were sure, and Euins
said he was. It's in Underwood's Commission testimony.
, that would be quite an understandable
Post by John McAdams
error.
Bullets are flying, and he looks up and sees one of the black men on
the 5th floor.
That's all I'm saying, thank you. Does this mean we're in agreement on
something? A first, or second. Of course that still means that Euins'
later affidavit, interviews, and testimony reflected some kind of
"evolution", but I won't put my own spin on that....
Excellent. If he changed his testimony, it doesn't mean Evil Minions
of the Conspiracy got to him and forced him to lie.
It's not changing his testimony. His first statments to the reporters
and then the police were not testimony. They warned him to change his
story that he would testify to lest it start a race riot.
So don't think of it as a conspiracy or a cover-up, but as a civic duty.
Post by John McAdams
It would just mean that he was embarrassed he said something at odds
with what everybody else was saying, and backed off.
Yeah, you mean like Jean Hill?
Post by John McAdams
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-30 15:10:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by John McAdams
Post by donald willis
Post by John McAdams
Post by claviger
Amos Euins never said that. A witness claims he overheard Euins say that.
Euins denies he ever said anything like that. Read his official signed
same day statement.
http://alt.assassination.jfk.narkive.com/Ke9RNuaD/amos-euins-sworn-statement-and-testimony
Note that *if* Euins said that (and the reporter who claimed that
could have been mistaken)
Doubtful. Reporter Kent Biffle overheard Euins telling that to a cop.
Post a link to Kent Biffle saying that.
Post by donald willis
But
another reporter James Underwood, actually questioned Euins, who told him
he saw a "colored man". Underwood asked him if he were sure, and Euins
said he was. It's in Underwood's Commission testimony.
, that would be quite an understandable
Post by John McAdams
error.
Bullets are flying, and he looks up and sees one of the black men on
the 5th floor.
That's all I'm saying, thank you. Does this mean we're in agreement on
something? A first, or second. Of course that still means that Euins'
later affidavit, interviews, and testimony reflected some kind of
"evolution", but I won't put my own spin on that....
Excellent. If he changed his testimony, it doesn't mean Evil Minions
of the Conspiracy got to him and forced him to lie.
It would just mean that he was embarrassed he said something at odds
with what everybody else was saying, and backed off.
Apparently some people do not know how to use Google to search through
the old messages:

Subject: The ABCs of Witness Intimidation--Euins & Sorrels the Truth Bender
Date: 14 Aug 2003 11:15:55 -0400
From: ***@netscape.net (Donald Willis)
Organization: http://groups.google.com/
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.assassination.jfk

A) "[Amos] Euins... said, 'It was a colored man', & he had a rifle"
(WC testimony of reporter James Underwood v6p170)
"A policeman was talking to a Negro boy. 'It was a colored man
done it. I saw him,' the boy was saying." ("This Couldn't Be
Happening," reporter Kent Biffle, Dallas M News, 1964 & 11/21/2000)

B) "Before Euins testified, according to his mother, the family
received threatening telephone calls." (Ft Worth Star-Tel, 11/15/64,
in "Rush to Judgment," Mark Lane, p281)

C) Specter: Of what race was he, Amos?
Euins: I couldn't tell....
Specter: Couldn't even tell that?
(WC testimony of Euins v2p206)
Post by John McAdams
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
You may also want to look through all the videotapes of the Journalists
Remember Symposium. I think all mine are on VHS tapes which are obsolete.
donald willis
2018-07-01 00:53:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
Post by donald willis
Post by John McAdams
Post by claviger
Amos Euins never said that. A witness claims he overheard Euins say that.
Euins denies he ever said anything like that. Read his official signed
same day statement.
http://alt.assassination.jfk.narkive.com/Ke9RNuaD/amos-euins-sworn-statement-and-testimony
Note that *if* Euins said that (and the reporter who claimed that
could have been mistaken)
Doubtful. Reporter Kent Biffle overheard Euins telling that to a cop.
Post a link to Kent Biffle saying that.
Post by donald willis
But
another reporter James Underwood, actually questioned Euins, who told him
he saw a "colored man". Underwood asked him if he were sure, and Euins
said he was. It's in Underwood's Commission testimony.
, that would be quite an understandable
Post by John McAdams
error.
Bullets are flying, and he looks up and sees one of the black men on
the 5th floor.
That's all I'm saying, thank you. Does this mean we're in agreement on
something? A first, or second. Of course that still means that Euins'
later affidavit, interviews, and testimony reflected some kind of
"evolution", but I won't put my own spin on that....
Excellent. If he changed his testimony, it doesn't mean Evil Minions
of the Conspiracy got to him and forced him to lie.
It would just mean that he was embarrassed he said something at odds
with what everybody else was saying, and backed off.
Apparently some people do not know how to use Google to search through
Subject: The ABCs of Witness Intimidation--Euins & Sorrels the Truth Bender
Date: 14 Aug 2003 11:15:55 -0400
Organization: http://groups.google.com/
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.assassination.jfk
A) "[Amos] Euins... said, 'It was a colored man', & he had a rifle"
(WC testimony of reporter James Underwood v6p170)
"A policeman was talking to a Negro boy. 'It was a colored man
done it. I saw him,' the boy was saying." ("This Couldn't Be
Happening," reporter Kent Biffle, Dallas M News, 1964 & 11/21/2000)
B) "Before Euins testified, according to his mother, the family
received threatening telephone calls." (Ft Worth Star-Tel, 11/15/64,
in "Rush to Judgment," Mark Lane, p281)
C) Specter: Of what race was he, Amos?
Euins: I couldn't tell....
Specter: Couldn't even tell that?
(WC testimony of Euins v2p206)
Post by John McAdams
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
You may also want to look through all the videotapes of the Journalists
Remember Symposium. I think all mine are on VHS tapes which are obsolete.
Not if you still have--as I do--a VHS recorder. The quality of the tapes
does deteriorate, but they're usually still playable.... In fact, I still
have a BetaMax! And Beta tapes. I think the tapes, again, would still be
playable, but I haven't checked that out for a few years.

dcw
Anthony Marsh
2018-07-02 15:03:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
Post by donald willis
Post by John McAdams
Post by claviger
Amos Euins never said that. A witness claims he overheard Euins say that.
Euins denies he ever said anything like that. Read his official signed
same day statement.
http://alt.assassination.jfk.narkive.com/Ke9RNuaD/amos-euins-sworn-statement-and-testimony
Note that *if* Euins said that (and the reporter who claimed that
could have been mistaken)
Doubtful. Reporter Kent Biffle overheard Euins telling that to a cop.
Post a link to Kent Biffle saying that.
Post by donald willis
But
another reporter James Underwood, actually questioned Euins, who told him
he saw a "colored man". Underwood asked him if he were sure, and Euins
said he was. It's in Underwood's Commission testimony.
, that would be quite an understandable
Post by John McAdams
error.
Bullets are flying, and he looks up and sees one of the black men on
the 5th floor.
That's all I'm saying, thank you. Does this mean we're in agreement on
something? A first, or second. Of course that still means that Euins'
later affidavit, interviews, and testimony reflected some kind of
"evolution", but I won't put my own spin on that....
Excellent. If he changed his testimony, it doesn't mean Evil Minions
of the Conspiracy got to him and forced him to lie.
It would just mean that he was embarrassed he said something at odds
with what everybody else was saying, and backed off.
Apparently some people do not know how to use Google to search through
Subject: The ABCs of Witness Intimidation--Euins & Sorrels the Truth Bender
Date: 14 Aug 2003 11:15:55 -0400
Organization: http://groups.google.com/
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.assassination.jfk
A) "[Amos] Euins... said, 'It was a colored man', & he had a rifle"
(WC testimony of reporter James Underwood v6p170)
"A policeman was talking to a Negro boy. 'It was a colored man
done it. I saw him,' the boy was saying." ("This Couldn't Be
Happening," reporter Kent Biffle, Dallas M News, 1964 & 11/21/2000)
B) "Before Euins testified, according to his mother, the family
received threatening telephone calls." (Ft Worth Star-Tel, 11/15/64,
in "Rush to Judgment," Mark Lane, p281)
C) Specter: Of what race was he, Amos?
Euins: I couldn't tell....
Specter: Couldn't even tell that?
(WC testimony of Euins v2p206)
Post by John McAdams
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
You may also want to look through all the videotapes of the Journalists
Remember Symposium. I think all mine are on VHS tapes which are obsolete.
Not if you still have--as I do--a VHS recorder. The quality of the tapes
does deteriorate, but they're usually still playable.... In fact, I still
have a BetaMax! And Beta tapes. I think the tapes, again, would still be
playable, but I haven't checked that out for a few years.
dcw
OMG, how old ARE you? Like 150?
I used to have a player that could transfer tapes to DVD, but it broke
and could not be repaired. I just saw an online ad for a machine that
reads VHS tapes and transfers them into files.
But I don't know if it works and if it is worth the money and if it
would ruin the tapes. Some of the Symposium is online already.
donald willis
2018-06-27 02:30:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Wow! The 3 man Hit Team exposed!
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Cite please.
It was part of the 50th anniversary coverage of the assassination. I
don't have it on tape....
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?
Was it there in the first place?
Yes two witnesses: Marina and the blanket.
I double checked that. Seems on the up & up, yes.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported
that it was found "on a lower floor".
What ATF man?
I believe his name was Frank Ellsworth. It was: "Mr. Ellsworth & another
officer from ATF were also there." -- Sims & Boyd report p3 (Sims Exh. A).
My main reference, though, is from a book, which I can't lay my hands on
right now.... I think the author's name was Dick Russell.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police
radio outside) at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing
of the (noisy) discovery of the rifle--at about that same time--
on the floor which they were on!
Ahaa! The plot thickens!!!
Clever way of dismissing unwanted witness evidence!
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Not used by any sniper? Where did the real shots come from?
Possibly the 5th floor. Marsh says one came from the Gassy Knoll....
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
Do you doubt he saw a man in the window? Several witness saw a man
or rifle in the same window.
Yes, the same wide open window!
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
Amos Euins never said that. A witness claims he overheard Euins say that.
Never say never again. Yes, reporter Kent Biffle overheard Euins say
exactly that. But another reporter, James Underwood, actually talked to
Euins:

"Euins said, 'It was a colored man.' I said, 'Are you sure it was a
colored man?' He said, 'Yes, sir'." (4/1/64 Commission testimony of
Underwood)

So, you lose, and if you were fair you'd accept, now, that Euins did say
that, no matter what he said after debriefing. But you won't. You're a
CT, and are unable to accept contradictory information....

Commission counsel took the coward's way out and did not ask Euins about
the newspaper interviews or the phrase "colored man".
Post by claviger
Euins denies he ever said anything like that.
I probably would have knuckled under, too, if I had some unwanted
information and my family was threatened, as Mark Lane wrote re Euins, in
Rush to Judgment. (I know, I know, and yet some of what he said about
Mrs. Markham was later confirmed--see "With Malice")

Read his official signed
Post by claviger
same day statement.
http://alt.assassination.jfk.narkive.com/Ke9RNuaD/amos-euins-sworn-statement-and-testimony
Read Underwood's testimony. And Biffle's report, early '64.

dcw
bigdog
2018-06-28 01:13:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Wow! The 3 man Hit Team exposed!
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Cite please.
It was part of the 50th anniversary coverage of the assassination. I
don't have it on tape....
So you are relying on a 5 year old memory. Any chance your memory of it
might be just a wee bit fuzzy?
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?
Was it there in the first place?
Yes two witnesses: Marina and the blanket.
I double checked that. Seems on the up & up, yes.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported
that it was found "on a lower floor".
What ATF man?
I believe his name was Frank Ellsworth. It was: "Mr. Ellsworth & another
officer from ATF were also there." -- Sims & Boyd report p3 (Sims Exh. A).
My main reference, though, is from a book, which I can't lay my hands on
right now.... I think the author's name was Dick Russell.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police
radio outside) at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing
of the (noisy) discovery of the rifle--at about that same time--
on the floor which they were on!
Ahaa! The plot thickens!!!
Clever way of dismissing unwanted witness evidence!
What evidence?
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Not used by any sniper? Where did the real shots come from?
Possibly the 5th floor. Marsh says one came from the Gassy Knoll....
So you reject the location where a number of witnesses placed the gunman,
where shells were found, which was on the same floor where the rifle was
found, where the fingerprints of the owner were found. Yet you are willing
to entertain other locations for which there is no evidence whatsoever of
a shooter.
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
Do you doubt he saw a man in the window? Several witness saw a man
or rifle in the same window.
Yes, the same wide open window!
How many inches does the window have to be open to qualify as wide open?
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
Amos Euins never said that. A witness claims he overheard Euins say that.
Never say never again. Yes, reporter Kent Biffle overheard Euins say
exactly that. But another reporter, James Underwood, actually talked to
"Euins said, 'It was a colored man.' I said, 'Are you sure it was a
colored man?' He said, 'Yes, sir'." (4/1/64 Commission testimony of
Underwood)
So, you lose, and if you were fair you'd accept, now, that Euins did say
that, no matter what he said after debriefing. But you won't. You're a
CT, and are unable to accept contradictory information....
So what if Euins said that. He was the only one of the witnesses who said
the shooter on the 6th floor was black. Why would you go with the outlier?
Post by donald willis
Commission counsel took the coward's way out and did not ask Euins about
the newspaper interviews or the phrase "colored man".
Post by claviger
Euins denies he ever said anything like that.
I probably would have knuckled under, too, if I had some unwanted
information and my family was threatened, as Mark Lane wrote re Euins, in
Rush to Judgment. (I know, I know, and yet some of what he said about
Mrs. Markham was later confirmed--see "With Malice")
Oh, Mark Lane said that. There's a reliable source.
Post by donald willis
Read his official signed
Post by claviger
same day statement.
http://alt.assassination.jfk.narkive.com/Ke9RNuaD/amos-euins-sworn-statement-and-testimony
Read Underwood's testimony. And Biffle's report, early '64.
So we have conflicting accounts or what Euins said. You opt for the
hearsay account rather than what Euins stated in his affidavit.
donald willis
2018-06-29 00:01:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Wow! The 3 man Hit Team exposed!
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Cite please.
It was part of the 50th anniversary coverage of the assassination. I
don't have it on tape....
So you are relying on a 5 year old memory. Any chance your memory of it
might be just a wee bit fuzzy?
Could be.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?
Was it there in the first place?
Yes two witnesses: Marina and the blanket.
I double checked that. Seems on the up & up, yes.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported
that it was found "on a lower floor".
What ATF man?
I believe his name was Frank Ellsworth. It was: "Mr. Ellsworth & another
officer from ATF were also there." -- Sims & Boyd report p3 (Sims Exh. A).
My main reference, though, is from a book, which I can't lay my hands on
right now.... I think the author's name was Dick Russell.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police
radio outside) at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing
of the (noisy) discovery of the rifle--at about that same time--
on the floor which they were on!
Ahaa! The plot thickens!!!
Clever way of dismissing unwanted witness evidence!
What evidence?
The reports of Dets. Montgomery and Johnson.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Not used by any sniper? Where did the real shots come from?
Possibly the 5th floor. Marsh says one came from the Gassy Knoll....
So you reject the location where a number of witnesses placed the gunman
They are contradictory--most said the gun was at a wide open window.

,
Post by bigdog
where shells were found
Again: where shells were placed, by Fritz.

, which was on the same floor where the rifle was
Post by bigdog
found
Montgomery and/or Johnson says otherwise. They reported hearing none of
the commotion when it was found. And they were there when it was
found--elsewhere, apparently!


, where the fingerprints of the owner were found. Yet you are willing
Post by bigdog
to entertain other locations for which there is no evidence whatsoever of
a shooter.
12:37 DPD radio transmission: the shooting came from the "second window
from the end", upper right hand corner of the TSBD. Can't have been the
6th floor since that window was closed....
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
Do you doubt he saw a man in the window? Several witness saw a man
or rifle in the same window.
Yes, the same wide open window!
How many inches does the window have to be open to qualify as wide open?
I think bigdog or unholy samovar just asked the same question. I'll give
the same answer: See Brennan's testimony, where he says the shooter's
window was open just like the windows on the floor below--i.e., wide open.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
Amos Euins never said that. A witness claims he overheard Euins say that.
Never say never again. Yes, reporter Kent Biffle overheard Euins say
exactly that. But another reporter, James Underwood, actually talked to
"Euins said, 'It was a colored man.' I said, 'Are you sure it was a
colored man?' He said, 'Yes, sir'." (4/1/64 Commission testimony of
Underwood)
So, you lose, and if you were fair you'd accept, now, that Euins did say
that, no matter what he said after debriefing. But you won't. You're a
CT, and are unable to accept contradictory information....
So what if Euins said that. He was the only one of the witnesses who said
the shooter on the 6th floor was black. Why would you go with the outlier?
I daresay that YOU yourself go with the "outlier", Euins. Several
witnesses testified that the sniper's window was wide open--Brennan,
Fischer, Edwards, Jackson, and sometimes Couch. Only Euins said it was
only half open: He's the outlier here! Why would you go with him on
this--he's the only witness who said that.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Commission counsel took the coward's way out and did not ask Euins about
the newspaper interviews or the phrase "colored man".
Post by claviger
Euins denies he ever said anything like that.
I probably would have knuckled under, too, if I had some unwanted
information and my family was threatened, as Mark Lane wrote re Euins, in
Rush to Judgment. (I know, I know, and yet some of what he said about
Mrs. Markham was later confirmed--see "With Malice")
Oh, Mark Lane said that. There's a reliable source.
Apparently, he has lied (if I trust the headlines here), just like that
other lawyer, Bugliosi....
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Read his official signed
Post by claviger
same day statement.
http://alt.assassination.jfk.narkive.com/Ke9RNuaD/amos-euins-sworn-statement-and-testimony
Read Underwood's testimony. And Biffle's report, early '64.
So we have conflicting accounts or what Euins said. You opt for the
hearsay account rather than what Euins stated in his affidavit.
I opt for his statement closest to the event, which would be what he told
reporters.

dcw
Mark
2018-06-29 21:03:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Wow! The 3 man Hit Team exposed!
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Cite please.
It was part of the 50th anniversary coverage of the assassination. I
don't have it on tape....
So you are relying on a 5 year old memory. Any chance your memory of it
might be just a wee bit fuzzy?
Could be.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?
Was it there in the first place?
Yes two witnesses: Marina and the blanket.
I double checked that. Seems on the up & up, yes.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported
that it was found "on a lower floor".
What ATF man?
I believe his name was Frank Ellsworth. It was: "Mr. Ellsworth & another
officer from ATF were also there." -- Sims & Boyd report p3 (Sims Exh. A).
My main reference, though, is from a book, which I can't lay my hands on
right now.... I think the author's name was Dick Russell.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police
radio outside) at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing
of the (noisy) discovery of the rifle--at about that same time--
on the floor which they were on!
Ahaa! The plot thickens!!!
Clever way of dismissing unwanted witness evidence!
What evidence?
The reports of Dets. Montgomery and Johnson.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Not used by any sniper? Where did the real shots come from?
Possibly the 5th floor. Marsh says one came from the Gassy Knoll....
So you reject the location where a number of witnesses placed the gunman
They are contradictory--most said the gun was at a wide open window.
,
Post by bigdog
where shells were found
Again: where shells were placed, by Fritz.
, which was on the same floor where the rifle was
Post by bigdog
found
Montgomery and/or Johnson says otherwise. They reported hearing none of
the commotion when it was found. And they were there when it was
found--elsewhere, apparently!
, where the fingerprints of the owner were found. Yet you are willing
Post by bigdog
to entertain other locations for which there is no evidence whatsoever of
a shooter.
12:37 DPD radio transmission: the shooting came from the "second window
from the end", upper right hand corner of the TSBD. Can't have been the
6th floor since that window was closed....
Do you have any experience in, or know anyone who has experience in a
police communications center where the Dispatchers are overstretched on a
normal day, and overrun on a really bad one like 11/22? I would guess what
they were trying to say was that the shots came from the second window
from the top. Yes, that conjecture. But Dispatchers broadcast, mostly thru
no fault of theirs, incorrect information every day. It ain't evidence of
anything.

Are you now telling us the
Post by donald willis
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
Do you doubt he saw a man in the window? Several witness saw a man
or rifle in the same window.
Yes, the same wide open window!
How many inches does the window have to be open to qualify as wide open?
I think bigdog or unholy samovar just asked the same question. I'll give
the same answer: See Brennan's testimony, where he says the shooter's
window was open just like the windows on the floor below--i.e., wide open.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
Amos Euins never said that. A witness claims he overheard Euins say that.
Never say never again. Yes, reporter Kent Biffle overheard Euins say
exactly that. But another reporter, James Underwood, actually talked to
"Euins said, 'It was a colored man.' I said, 'Are you sure it was a
colored man?' He said, 'Yes, sir'." (4/1/64 Commission testimony of
Underwood)
So, you lose, and if you were fair you'd accept, now, that Euins did say
that, no matter what he said after debriefing. But you won't. You're a
CT, and are unable to accept contradictory information....
Nobody is arguing that there is not contradictory testimony by
eyewitnesses. But you apparently believe it can't be sorted out by finding
out which part of it is in line with the hard evidence. That's kinda what
our criminal justice was invented to do.

Mark
donald willis
2018-06-30 17:47:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Wow! The 3 man Hit Team exposed!
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Cite please.
It was part of the 50th anniversary coverage of the assassination. I
don't have it on tape....
So you are relying on a 5 year old memory. Any chance your memory of it
might be just a wee bit fuzzy?
Could be.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?
Was it there in the first place?
Yes two witnesses: Marina and the blanket.
I double checked that. Seems on the up & up, yes.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported
that it was found "on a lower floor".
What ATF man?
I believe his name was Frank Ellsworth. It was: "Mr. Ellsworth & another
officer from ATF were also there." -- Sims & Boyd report p3 (Sims Exh. A).
My main reference, though, is from a book, which I can't lay my hands on
right now.... I think the author's name was Dick Russell.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police
radio outside) at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing
of the (noisy) discovery of the rifle--at about that same time--
on the floor which they were on!
Ahaa! The plot thickens!!!
Clever way of dismissing unwanted witness evidence!
What evidence?
The reports of Dets. Montgomery and Johnson.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Not used by any sniper? Where did the real shots come from?
Possibly the 5th floor. Marsh says one came from the Gassy Knoll....
So you reject the location where a number of witnesses placed the gunman
They are contradictory--most said the gun was at a wide open window.
,
Post by bigdog
where shells were found
Again: where shells were placed, by Fritz.
, which was on the same floor where the rifle was
Post by bigdog
found
Montgomery and/or Johnson says otherwise. They reported hearing none of
the commotion when it was found. And they were there when it was
found--elsewhere, apparently!
, where the fingerprints of the owner were found. Yet you are willing
Post by bigdog
to entertain other locations for which there is no evidence whatsoever of
a shooter.
12:37 DPD radio transmission: the shooting came from the "second window
from the end", upper right hand corner of the TSBD. Can't have been the
6th floor since that window was closed....
Do you have any experience in, or know anyone who has experience in a
police communications center where the Dispatchers are overstretched on a
normal day, and overrun on a really bad one like 11/22? I would guess what
they were trying to say was that the shots came from the second window
from the top. Yes, that conjecture. But Dispatchers broadcast, mostly thru
no fault of theirs, incorrect information every day. It ain't evidence of
anything.
That would be a viable idea, however the 12:37 transmission was
mis-handled badly. The wrong cop's name & number were affixed to it in
the first real (11/4 I believe) transcription. The wrong cop then
testified, erroneously, to the Commission that he sent the transmission.
Only with the second transcription, by Sgt. Bowles, did the right name &
number get attached to the transmission. But it was too late. The rushed
Commission members did not go back and re-question any of the cops (e.g.,
Haygood, Sgt. Hill) whose transmissions were affected, in order to get the
correct data. The Commission was too harried by LBJ to get to the
truth....
Post by Mark
Are you now telling us the
Post by donald willis
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
Do you doubt he saw a man in the window? Several witness saw a man
or rifle in the same window.
Yes, the same wide open window!
How many inches does the window have to be open to qualify as wide open?
I think bigdog or unholy samovar just asked the same question. I'll give
the same answer: See Brennan's testimony, where he says the shooter's
window was open just like the windows on the floor below--i.e., wide open.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
Amos Euins never said that. A witness claims he overheard Euins say that.
Never say never again. Yes, reporter Kent Biffle overheard Euins say
exactly that. But another reporter, James Underwood, actually talked to
"Euins said, 'It was a colored man.' I said, 'Are you sure it was a
colored man?' He said, 'Yes, sir'." (4/1/64 Commission testimony of
Underwood)
So, you lose, and if you were fair you'd accept, now, that Euins did say
that, no matter what he said after debriefing. But you won't. You're a
CT, and are unable to accept contradictory information....
Nobody is arguing that there is not contradictory testimony by
eyewitnesses. But you apparently believe it can't be sorted out by finding
out which part of it is in line with the hard evidence. That's kinda what
our criminal justice was invented to do.
Mark
John McAdams and I reached an agreement re the Euins dilemma. Check it
out, earlier in this thread....

dcw
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-29 21:10:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Wow! The 3 man Hit Team exposed!
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Cite please.
It was part of the 50th anniversary coverage of the assassination. I
don't have it on tape....
So you are relying on a 5 year old memory. Any chance your memory of it
might be just a wee bit fuzzy?
Could be.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?
Was it there in the first place?
Yes two witnesses: Marina and the blanket.
I double checked that. Seems on the up & up, yes.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported
that it was found "on a lower floor".
What ATF man?
I believe his name was Frank Ellsworth. It was: "Mr. Ellsworth & another
officer from ATF were also there." -- Sims & Boyd report p3 (Sims Exh. A).
My main reference, though, is from a book, which I can't lay my hands on
right now.... I think the author's name was Dick Russell.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police
radio outside) at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing
of the (noisy) discovery of the rifle--at about that same time--
on the floor which they were on!
Ahaa! The plot thickens!!!
Clever way of dismissing unwanted witness evidence!
What evidence?
The reports of Dets. Montgomery and Johnson.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Not used by any sniper? Where did the real shots come from?
Possibly the 5th floor. Marsh says one came from the Gassy Knoll....
So you reject the location where a number of witnesses placed the gunman
They are contradictory--most said the gun was at a wide open window.
,
Post by bigdog
where shells were found
Again: where shells were placed, by Fritz.
, which was on the same floor where the rifle was
Post by bigdog
found
Montgomery and/or Johnson says otherwise. They reported hearing none of
the commotion when it was found. And they were there when it was
found--elsewhere, apparently!
, where the fingerprints of the owner were found. Yet you are willing
Post by bigdog
to entertain other locations for which there is no evidence whatsoever of
a shooter.
12:37 DPD radio transmission: the shooting came from the "second window
from the end", upper right hand corner of the TSBD. Can't have been the
6th floor since that window was closed....
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
Do you doubt he saw a man in the window? Several witness saw a man
or rifle in the same window.
Yes, the same wide open window!
How many inches does the window have to be open to qualify as wide open?
I think bigdog or unholy samovar just asked the same question. I'll give
the same answer: See Brennan's testimony, where he says the shooter's
window was open just like the windows on the floor below--i.e., wide open.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
Amos Euins never said that. A witness claims he overheard Euins say that.
Never say never again. Yes, reporter Kent Biffle overheard Euins say
exactly that. But another reporter, James Underwood, actually talked to
"Euins said, 'It was a colored man.' I said, 'Are you sure it was a
colored man?' He said, 'Yes, sir'." (4/1/64 Commission testimony of
Underwood)
So, you lose, and if you were fair you'd accept, now, that Euins did say
that, no matter what he said after debriefing. But you won't. You're a
CT, and are unable to accept contradictory information....
So what if Euins said that. He was the only one of the witnesses who said
the shooter on the 6th floor was black. Why would you go with the outlier?
I daresay that YOU yourself go with the "outlier", Euins. Several
witnesses testified that the sniper's window was wide open--Brennan,
Fischer, Edwards, Jackson, and sometimes Couch. Only Euins said it was
only half open: He's the outlier here! Why would you go with him on
this--he's the only witness who said that.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Commission counsel took the coward's way out and did not ask Euins about
the newspaper interviews or the phrase "colored man".
Post by claviger
Euins denies he ever said anything like that.
I probably would have knuckled under, too, if I had some unwanted
information and my family was threatened, as Mark Lane wrote re Euins, in
Rush to Judgment. (I know, I know, and yet some of what he said about
Mrs. Markham was later confirmed--see "With Malice")
Oh, Mark Lane said that. There's a reliable source.
Apparently, he has lied (if I trust the headlines here), just like that
other lawyer, Bugliosi....
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Read his official signed
Post by claviger
same day statement.
http://alt.assassination.jfk.narkive.com/Ke9RNuaD/amos-euins-sworn-statement-and-testimony
Read Underwood's testimony. And Biffle's report, early '64.
So we have conflicting accounts or what Euins said. You opt for the
hearsay account rather than what Euins stated in his affidavit.
I opt for his statement closest to the event, which would be what he told
reporters.
Good advice from Loftus.
Post by donald willis
dcw
Mark
2018-06-30 01:13:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Wow! The 3 man Hit Team exposed!
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Cite please.
It was part of the 50th anniversary coverage of the assassination. I
don't have it on tape....
So you are relying on a 5 year old memory. Any chance your memory of it
might be just a wee bit fuzzy?
Could be.
Well, to ask this as polite as I can, Donald, can I call off my search?

Mark
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-30 21:24:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Wow! The 3 man Hit Team exposed!
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Cite please.
It was part of the 50th anniversary coverage of the assassination. I
don't have it on tape....
So you are relying on a 5 year old memory. Any chance your memory of it
might be just a wee bit fuzzy?
Could be.
Well, to ask this as polite as I can, Donald, can I call off my search?
No. Search deeper. If you can't find it on Google, maybe you can find it
on Bing. Never search on Yahoo.
Post by Mark
Mark
Mark
2018-07-01 22:38:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Wow! The 3 man Hit Team exposed!
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Cite please.
It was part of the 50th anniversary coverage of the assassination. I
don't have it on tape....
So you are relying on a 5 year old memory. Any chance your memory of it
might be just a wee bit fuzzy?
Could be.
Well, to ask this as polite as I can, Donald, can I call off my search?
No. Search deeper. If you can't find it on Google, maybe you can find it
on Bing. Never search on Yahoo.
Post by Mark
Mark
10-4, Tony, I'll keep right on doing that. BTW, you might want to use
monstercrawler.com. It searches the major search engines. Kind of like
one-stop shopping. Mark
donald willis
2018-07-01 00:28:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Wow! The 3 man Hit Team exposed!
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Cite please.
It was part of the 50th anniversary coverage of the assassination. I
don't have it on tape....
So you are relying on a 5 year old memory. Any chance your memory of it
might be just a wee bit fuzzy?
Could be.
Well, to ask this as polite as I can, Donald, can I call off my search?
Mark
Sure.
Mark
2018-07-02 02:10:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Wow! The 3 man Hit Team exposed!
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Cite please.
It was part of the 50th anniversary coverage of the assassination. I
don't have it on tape....
So you are relying on a 5 year old memory. Any chance your memory of it
might be just a wee bit fuzzy?
Could be.
Well, to ask this as polite as I can, Donald, can I call off my search?
Mark
Sure.
Fair enough, thank you. You're not alone. I too have thought I saw or
heard something and it turns out I didn't. Mark
Mark
2018-06-30 01:15:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Wow! The 3 man Hit Team exposed!
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Cite please.
It was part of the 50th anniversary coverage of the assassination. I
don't have it on tape....
So you are relying on a 5 year old memory. Any chance your memory of it
might be just a wee bit fuzzy?
Could be.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?
Was it there in the first place?
Yes two witnesses: Marina and the blanket.
I double checked that. Seems on the up & up, yes.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported
that it was found "on a lower floor".
What ATF man?
I believe his name was Frank Ellsworth. It was: "Mr. Ellsworth & another
officer from ATF were also there." -- Sims & Boyd report p3 (Sims Exh. A).
My main reference, though, is from a book, which I can't lay my hands on
right now.... I think the author's name was Dick Russell.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police
radio outside) at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing
of the (noisy) discovery of the rifle--at about that same time--
on the floor which they were on!
Ahaa! The plot thickens!!!
Clever way of dismissing unwanted witness evidence!
What evidence?
The reports of Dets. Montgomery and Johnson.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Not used by any sniper? Where did the real shots come from?
Possibly the 5th floor. Marsh says one came from the Gassy Knoll....
So you reject the location where a number of witnesses placed the gunman
They are contradictory--most said the gun was at a wide open window.
,
Post by bigdog
where shells were found
Again: where shells were placed, by Fritz.
, which was on the same floor where the rifle was
Post by bigdog
found
Montgomery and/or Johnson says otherwise. They reported hearing none of
the commotion when it was found. And they were there when it was
found--elsewhere, apparently!
, where the fingerprints of the owner were found. Yet you are willing
Post by bigdog
to entertain other locations for which there is no evidence whatsoever of
a shooter.
12:37 DPD radio transmission: the shooting came from the "second window
from the end", upper right hand corner of the TSBD. Can't have been the
6th floor since that window was closed....
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
Do you doubt he saw a man in the window? Several witness saw a man
or rifle in the same window.
Yes, the same wide open window!
How many inches does the window have to be open to qualify as wide open?
I think bigdog or unholy samovar just asked the same question. I'll give
the same answer: See Brennan's testimony, where he says the shooter's
window was open just like the windows on the floor below--i.e., wide open.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
Amos Euins never said that. A witness claims he overheard Euins say that.
Never say never again. Yes, reporter Kent Biffle overheard Euins say
exactly that. But another reporter, James Underwood, actually talked to
"Euins said, 'It was a colored man.' I said, 'Are you sure it was a
colored man?' He said, 'Yes, sir'." (4/1/64 Commission testimony of
Underwood)
So, you lose, and if you were fair you'd accept, now, that Euins did say
that, no matter what he said after debriefing. But you won't. You're a
CT, and are unable to accept contradictory information....
So what if Euins said that. He was the only one of the witnesses who said
the shooter on the 6th floor was black. Why would you go with the outlier?
I daresay that YOU yourself go with the "outlier", Euins. Several
witnesses testified that the sniper's window was wide open--Brennan,
Fischer, Edwards, Jackson, and sometimes Couch. Only Euins said it was
only half open: He's the outlier here! Why would you go with him on
this--he's the only witness who said that.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Commission counsel took the coward's way out and did not ask Euins about
the newspaper interviews or the phrase "colored man".
Post by claviger
Euins denies he ever said anything like that.
I probably would have knuckled under, too, if I had some unwanted
information and my family was threatened, as Mark Lane wrote re Euins in
Rush to Judgment. (I know, I know, and yet some of what he said about
Mrs. Markham was later confirmed--see "With Malice")
Oh, Mark Lane said that. There's a reliable source.
Apparently, he has lied (if I trust the headlines here), just like that
other lawyer, Bugliosi....
Wow, so many were threatened. Now Euins and Jean Hill. I wish someone
would provide evidence. But, what I would really like to say is--I can
cite you example after example of Mark Lane's "lies" (your description).
Can you tell me when Buglisoi lied on purpose? Mark
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-30 21:24:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Wow! The 3 man Hit Team exposed!
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Cite please.
It was part of the 50th anniversary coverage of the assassination. I
don't have it on tape....
So you are relying on a 5 year old memory. Any chance your memory of it
might be just a wee bit fuzzy?
Could be.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?
Was it there in the first place?
Yes two witnesses: Marina and the blanket.
I double checked that. Seems on the up & up, yes.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported
that it was found "on a lower floor".
What ATF man?
I believe his name was Frank Ellsworth. It was: "Mr. Ellsworth & another
officer from ATF were also there." -- Sims & Boyd report p3 (Sims Exh. A).
My main reference, though, is from a book, which I can't lay my hands on
right now.... I think the author's name was Dick Russell.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police
radio outside) at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing
of the (noisy) discovery of the rifle--at about that same time--
on the floor which they were on!
Ahaa! The plot thickens!!!
Clever way of dismissing unwanted witness evidence!
What evidence?
The reports of Dets. Montgomery and Johnson.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Not used by any sniper? Where did the real shots come from?
Possibly the 5th floor. Marsh says one came from the Gassy Knoll....
So you reject the location where a number of witnesses placed the gunman
They are contradictory--most said the gun was at a wide open window.
,
Post by bigdog
where shells were found
Again: where shells were placed, by Fritz.
, which was on the same floor where the rifle was
Post by bigdog
found
Montgomery and/or Johnson says otherwise. They reported hearing none of
the commotion when it was found. And they were there when it was
found--elsewhere, apparently!
, where the fingerprints of the owner were found. Yet you are willing
Post by bigdog
to entertain other locations for which there is no evidence whatsoever of
a shooter.
12:37 DPD radio transmission: the shooting came from the "second window
from the end", upper right hand corner of the TSBD. Can't have been the
6th floor since that window was closed....
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
Do you doubt he saw a man in the window? Several witness saw a man
or rifle in the same window.
Yes, the same wide open window!
How many inches does the window have to be open to qualify as wide open?
I think bigdog or unholy samovar just asked the same question. I'll give
the same answer: See Brennan's testimony, where he says the shooter's
window was open just like the windows on the floor below--i.e., wide open.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
Amos Euins never said that. A witness claims he overheard Euins say that.
Never say never again. Yes, reporter Kent Biffle overheard Euins say
exactly that. But another reporter, James Underwood, actually talked to
"Euins said, 'It was a colored man.' I said, 'Are you sure it was a
colored man?' He said, 'Yes, sir'." (4/1/64 Commission testimony of
Underwood)
So, you lose, and if you were fair you'd accept, now, that Euins did say
that, no matter what he said after debriefing. But you won't. You're a
CT, and are unable to accept contradictory information....
So what if Euins said that. He was the only one of the witnesses who said
the shooter on the 6th floor was black. Why would you go with the outlier?
I daresay that YOU yourself go with the "outlier", Euins. Several
witnesses testified that the sniper's window was wide open--Brennan,
Fischer, Edwards, Jackson, and sometimes Couch. Only Euins said it was
only half open: He's the outlier here! Why would you go with him on
this--he's the only witness who said that.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Commission counsel took the coward's way out and did not ask Euins about
the newspaper interviews or the phrase "colored man".
Post by claviger
Euins denies he ever said anything like that.
I probably would have knuckled under, too, if I had some unwanted
information and my family was threatened, as Mark Lane wrote re Euins in
Rush to Judgment. (I know, I know, and yet some of what he said about
Mrs. Markham was later confirmed--see "With Malice")
Oh, Mark Lane said that. There's a reliable source.
Apparently, he has lied (if I trust the headlines here), just like that
other lawyer, Bugliosi....
Wow, so many were threatened. Now Euins and Jean Hill. I wish someone
would provide evidence. But, what I would really like to say is--I can
cite you example after example of Mark Lane's "lies" (your description).
Can you tell me when Buglisoi lied on purpose? Mark
We have, several times. Articles have been written about his lies. Ever
learn how to use Google?
I told him to his face that he was lying.
donald willis
2018-07-01 00:29:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Wow! The 3 man Hit Team exposed!
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Cite please.
It was part of the 50th anniversary coverage of the assassination. I
don't have it on tape....
So you are relying on a 5 year old memory. Any chance your memory of it
might be just a wee bit fuzzy?
Could be.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?
Was it there in the first place?
Yes two witnesses: Marina and the blanket.
I double checked that. Seems on the up & up, yes.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported
that it was found "on a lower floor".
What ATF man?
I believe his name was Frank Ellsworth. It was: "Mr. Ellsworth & another
officer from ATF were also there." -- Sims & Boyd report p3 (Sims Exh. A).
My main reference, though, is from a book, which I can't lay my hands on
right now.... I think the author's name was Dick Russell.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police
radio outside) at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing
of the (noisy) discovery of the rifle--at about that same time--
on the floor which they were on!
Ahaa! The plot thickens!!!
Clever way of dismissing unwanted witness evidence!
What evidence?
The reports of Dets. Montgomery and Johnson.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Not used by any sniper? Where did the real shots come from?
Possibly the 5th floor. Marsh says one came from the Gassy Knoll....
So you reject the location where a number of witnesses placed the gunman
They are contradictory--most said the gun was at a wide open window.
,
Post by bigdog
where shells were found
Again: where shells were placed, by Fritz.
, which was on the same floor where the rifle was
Post by bigdog
found
Montgomery and/or Johnson says otherwise. They reported hearing none of
the commotion when it was found. And they were there when it was
found--elsewhere, apparently!
, where the fingerprints of the owner were found. Yet you are willing
Post by bigdog
to entertain other locations for which there is no evidence whatsoever of
a shooter.
12:37 DPD radio transmission: the shooting came from the "second window
from the end", upper right hand corner of the TSBD. Can't have been the
6th floor since that window was closed....
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
Do you doubt he saw a man in the window? Several witness saw a man
or rifle in the same window.
Yes, the same wide open window!
How many inches does the window have to be open to qualify as wide open?
I think bigdog or unholy samovar just asked the same question. I'll give
the same answer: See Brennan's testimony, where he says the shooter's
window was open just like the windows on the floor below--i.e., wide open.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
Amos Euins never said that. A witness claims he overheard Euins say that.
Never say never again. Yes, reporter Kent Biffle overheard Euins say
exactly that. But another reporter, James Underwood, actually talked to
"Euins said, 'It was a colored man.' I said, 'Are you sure it was a
colored man?' He said, 'Yes, sir'." (4/1/64 Commission testimony of
Underwood)
So, you lose, and if you were fair you'd accept, now, that Euins did say
that, no matter what he said after debriefing. But you won't. You're a
CT, and are unable to accept contradictory information....
So what if Euins said that. He was the only one of the witnesses who said
the shooter on the 6th floor was black. Why would you go with the outlier?
I daresay that YOU yourself go with the "outlier", Euins. Several
witnesses testified that the sniper's window was wide open--Brennan,
Fischer, Edwards, Jackson, and sometimes Couch. Only Euins said it was
only half open: He's the outlier here! Why would you go with him on
this--he's the only witness who said that.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Commission counsel took the coward's way out and did not ask Euins about
the newspaper interviews or the phrase "colored man".
Post by claviger
Euins denies he ever said anything like that.
I probably would have knuckled under, too, if I had some unwanted
information and my family was threatened, as Mark Lane wrote re Euins in
Rush to Judgment. (I know, I know, and yet some of what he said about
Mrs. Markham was later confirmed--see "With Malice")
Oh, Mark Lane said that. There's a reliable source.
Apparently, he has lied (if I trust the headlines here), just like that
other lawyer, Bugliosi....
Wow, so many were threatened. Now Euins
No, not in 2018. Back in '63-4.

and Jean Hill. I wish someone
Post by Mark
would provide evidence. But, what I would really like to say is--I can
cite you example after example of Mark Lane's "lies" (your description).
Can you tell me when Buglisoi lied on purpose? Mark
Yes, in his book, in the paragraph on Mrs. Markham. He wrote that she
testified that she saw the suspect cut acro+ss the lawn in front of the
Davis abode. She was consistent, though, in saying that the man took the
SIDEWALK right down to the intersection. And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.

Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....

dcw
InsideSparta
2018-07-02 00:57:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Wow! The 3 man Hit Team exposed!
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Cite please.
It was part of the 50th anniversary coverage of the assassination. I
don't have it on tape....
So you are relying on a 5 year old memory. Any chance your memory of it
might be just a wee bit fuzzy?
Could be.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?
Was it there in the first place?
Yes two witnesses: Marina and the blanket.
I double checked that. Seems on the up & up, yes.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported
that it was found "on a lower floor".
What ATF man?
I believe his name was Frank Ellsworth. It was: "Mr. Ellsworth & another
officer from ATF were also there." -- Sims & Boyd report p3 (Sims Exh. A).
My main reference, though, is from a book, which I can't lay my hands on
right now.... I think the author's name was Dick Russell.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police
radio outside) at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing
of the (noisy) discovery of the rifle--at about that same time--
on the floor which they were on!
Ahaa! The plot thickens!!!
Clever way of dismissing unwanted witness evidence!
What evidence?
The reports of Dets. Montgomery and Johnson.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Not used by any sniper? Where did the real shots come from?
Possibly the 5th floor. Marsh says one came from the Gassy Knoll....
So you reject the location where a number of witnesses placed the gunman
They are contradictory--most said the gun was at a wide open window.
,
Post by bigdog
where shells were found
Again: where shells were placed, by Fritz.
, which was on the same floor where the rifle was
Post by bigdog
found
Montgomery and/or Johnson says otherwise. They reported hearing none of
the commotion when it was found. And they were there when it was
found--elsewhere, apparently!
, where the fingerprints of the owner were found. Yet you are willing
Post by bigdog
to entertain other locations for which there is no evidence whatsoever of
a shooter.
12:37 DPD radio transmission: the shooting came from the "second window
from the end", upper right hand corner of the TSBD. Can't have been the
6th floor since that window was closed....
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
Do you doubt he saw a man in the window? Several witness saw a man
or rifle in the same window.
Yes, the same wide open window!
How many inches does the window have to be open to qualify as wide open?
I think bigdog or unholy samovar just asked the same question. I'll give
the same answer: See Brennan's testimony, where he says the shooter's
window was open just like the windows on the floor below--i.e., wide open.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
Amos Euins never said that. A witness claims he overheard Euins say that.
Never say never again. Yes, reporter Kent Biffle overheard Euins say
exactly that. But another reporter, James Underwood, actually talked to
"Euins said, 'It was a colored man.' I said, 'Are you sure it was a
colored man?' He said, 'Yes, sir'." (4/1/64 Commission testimony of
Underwood)
So, you lose, and if you were fair you'd accept, now, that Euins did say
that, no matter what he said after debriefing. But you won't. You're a
CT, and are unable to accept contradictory information....
So what if Euins said that. He was the only one of the witnesses who said
the shooter on the 6th floor was black. Why would you go with the outlier?
I daresay that YOU yourself go with the "outlier", Euins. Several
witnesses testified that the sniper's window was wide open--Brennan,
Fischer, Edwards, Jackson, and sometimes Couch. Only Euins said it was
only half open: He's the outlier here! Why would you go with him on
this--he's the only witness who said that.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Commission counsel took the coward's way out and did not ask Euins about
the newspaper interviews or the phrase "colored man".
Post by claviger
Euins denies he ever said anything like that.
I probably would have knuckled under, too, if I had some unwanted
information and my family was threatened, as Mark Lane wrote re Euins in
Rush to Judgment. (I know, I know, and yet some of what he said about
Mrs. Markham was later confirmed--see "With Malice")
Oh, Mark Lane said that. There's a reliable source.
Apparently, he has lied (if I trust the headlines here), just like that
other lawyer, Bugliosi....
Wow, so many were threatened. Now Euins
No, not in 2018. Back in '63-4.
and Jean Hill. I wish someone
Post by Mark
would provide evidence. But, what I would really like to say is--I can
cite you example after example of Mark Lane's "lies" (your description).
Can you tell me when Buglisoi lied on purpose? Mark
Yes, in his book, in the paragraph on Mrs. Markham. He wrote that she
testified that she saw the suspect cut acro+ss the lawn in front of the
Davis abode. She was consistent, though, in saying that the man took the
SIDEWALK right down to the intersection. And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
You mean the hulls that were proven to have been fired by the gun that was
in Oswald's possession when he was arrested shortly thereafter in the
Texas Theater? The gun that was proven to have been purchased by Oswald?
Wasn't Helen Markham one of the seven individuals that identified Oswald
as either being the shooter of Officer Tippit or being the individual
fleeing the scene of the crime with said gun in hand? You're nitpicking
eyewitnesses statements again. Missing the forest because you're staring
at a tree. Finding minor inconsistencies in recollections of eyewitness
does not necessarily exonerate someone from having committed the crime.
Anthony Marsh
2018-07-02 19:35:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Wow! The 3 man Hit Team exposed!
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Cite please.
It was part of the 50th anniversary coverage of the assassination. I
don't have it on tape....
So you are relying on a 5 year old memory. Any chance your memory of it
might be just a wee bit fuzzy?
Could be.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?
Was it there in the first place?
Yes two witnesses: Marina and the blanket.
I double checked that. Seems on the up & up, yes.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported
that it was found "on a lower floor".
What ATF man?
I believe his name was Frank Ellsworth. It was: "Mr. Ellsworth & another
officer from ATF were also there." -- Sims & Boyd report p3 (Sims Exh. A).
My main reference, though, is from a book, which I can't lay my hands on
right now.... I think the author's name was Dick Russell.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police
radio outside) at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing
of the (noisy) discovery of the rifle--at about that same time--
on the floor which they were on!
Ahaa! The plot thickens!!!
Clever way of dismissing unwanted witness evidence!
What evidence?
The reports of Dets. Montgomery and Johnson.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Not used by any sniper? Where did the real shots come from?
Possibly the 5th floor. Marsh says one came from the Gassy Knoll....
So you reject the location where a number of witnesses placed the gunman
They are contradictory--most said the gun was at a wide open window.
,
Post by bigdog
where shells were found
Again: where shells were placed, by Fritz.
, which was on the same floor where the rifle was
Post by bigdog
found
Montgomery and/or Johnson says otherwise. They reported hearing none of
the commotion when it was found. And they were there when it was
found--elsewhere, apparently!
, where the fingerprints of the owner were found. Yet you are willing
Post by bigdog
to entertain other locations for which there is no evidence whatsoever of
a shooter.
12:37 DPD radio transmission: the shooting came from the "second window
from the end", upper right hand corner of the TSBD. Can't have been the
6th floor since that window was closed....
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
Do you doubt he saw a man in the window? Several witness saw a man
or rifle in the same window.
Yes, the same wide open window!
How many inches does the window have to be open to qualify as wide open?
I think bigdog or unholy samovar just asked the same question. I'll give
the same answer: See Brennan's testimony, where he says the shooter's
window was open just like the windows on the floor below--i.e., wide open.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
Amos Euins never said that. A witness claims he overheard Euins say that.
Never say never again. Yes, reporter Kent Biffle overheard Euins say
exactly that. But another reporter, James Underwood, actually talked to
"Euins said, 'It was a colored man.' I said, 'Are you sure it was a
colored man?' He said, 'Yes, sir'." (4/1/64 Commission testimony of
Underwood)
So, you lose, and if you were fair you'd accept, now, that Euins did say
that, no matter what he said after debriefing. But you won't. You're a
CT, and are unable to accept contradictory information....
So what if Euins said that. He was the only one of the witnesses who said
the shooter on the 6th floor was black. Why would you go with the outlier?
I daresay that YOU yourself go with the "outlier", Euins. Several
witnesses testified that the sniper's window was wide open--Brennan,
Fischer, Edwards, Jackson, and sometimes Couch. Only Euins said it was
only half open: He's the outlier here! Why would you go with him on
this--he's the only witness who said that.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Commission counsel took the coward's way out and did not ask Euins about
the newspaper interviews or the phrase "colored man".
Post by claviger
Euins denies he ever said anything like that.
I probably would have knuckled under, too, if I had some unwanted
information and my family was threatened, as Mark Lane wrote re Euins in
Rush to Judgment. (I know, I know, and yet some of what he said about
Mrs. Markham was later confirmed--see "With Malice")
Oh, Mark Lane said that. There's a reliable source.
Apparently, he has lied (if I trust the headlines here), just like that
other lawyer, Bugliosi....
Wow, so many were threatened. Now Euins
No, not in 2018. Back in '63-4.
and Jean Hill. I wish someone
Post by Mark
would provide evidence. But, what I would really like to say is--I can
cite you example after example of Mark Lane's "lies" (your description).
Can you tell me when Buglisoi lied on purpose? Mark
Yes, in his book, in the paragraph on Mrs. Markham. He wrote that she
testified that she saw the suspect cut acro+ss the lawn in front of the
Davis abode. She was consistent, though, in saying that the man took the
SIDEWALK right down to the intersection. And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
You mean the hulls that were proven to have been fired by the gun that was
in Oswald's possession when he was arrested shortly thereafter in the
Texas Theater? The gun that was proven to have been purchased by Oswald?
Yeah. That doesn't prove that Oswald fired the shots.
If someone stole your rifle and killed someone would that proved that
YOU kill him?
Post by InsideSparta
Wasn't Helen Markham one of the seven individuals that identified Oswald
as either being the shooter of Officer Tippit or being the individual
fleeing the scene of the crime with said gun in hand? You're nitpicking
eyewitnesses statements again. Missing the forest because you're staring
at a tree. Finding minor inconsistencies in recollections of eyewitness
does not necessarily exonerate someone from having committed the crime.
Yes, one case at a time. I don't think it was Oswald who started the
Reichstagg fire.
donald willis
2018-07-02 20:33:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
On Wednesday, June 27, 2018 at 6:13 SNIP And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
You mean the hulls that were proven to have been fired by the gun that was
in Oswald's possession when he was arrested shortly thereafter in the
Texas Theater?
Fired by the gun, but not necessarily fired by Oswald. Who had the pistol
*after* Oswald? Oh, some of the same people (well, person) who picked up
hulls in the depository, then could not admit it....

The gun that was proven to have been purchased by Oswald?
Post by InsideSparta
Wasn't Helen Markham one of the seven individuals that identified Oswald
Who apparently left the scene in a taxi, with Scoggins, if we're to
believe the updated story in Myers' revision of "With Malice"!
Post by InsideSparta
as either being the shooter of Officer Tippit or being the individual
fleeing the scene of the crime with said gun in hand?
First description of said gun was in a DPD radio transmission, and it was
said to be an automatic. Amazing coincidence--first two reports on the
shells and gun said "automatic"! Boy, did they have to walk those back!

You're nitpicking

McAdams let you use his favorite word? Okay, maybe it's "minions"....
Post by InsideSparta
eyewitnesses statements again. Missing the forest because you're staring
at a tree. Finding minor inconsistencies in recollections of eyewitness
does not necessarily exonerate someone from having committed the crime.
"Minor" doesn't begin to explain why Sgt. Hill lied to the Commission and
said that he didn't send the "auto 38" transmission, and why transcriber
Sgt. Henslee covered for him & in his transcription (later amended by
other transcribers) and gave that transmission to someone else....

dcw
Mark
2018-07-05 03:05:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
On Wednesday, June 27, 2018 at 6:13 SNIP And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
You mean the hulls that were proven to have been fired by the gun that was
in Oswald's possession when he was arrested shortly thereafter in the
Texas Theater?
Fired by the gun, but not necessarily fired by Oswald. Who had the pistol
*after* Oswald? Oh, some of the same people (well, person) who picked up
hulls in the depository, then could not admit it....
The gun that was proven to have been purchased by Oswald?
Post by InsideSparta
Wasn't Helen Markham one of the seven individuals that identified Oswald
Who apparently left the scene in a taxi, with Scoggins, if we're to
believe the updated story in Myers' revision of "With Malice"!
Post by InsideSparta
as either being the shooter of Officer Tippit or being the individual
fleeing the scene of the crime with said gun in hand?
First description of said gun was in a DPD radio transmission, and it was
said to be an automatic. Amazing coincidence--first two reports on the
shells and gun said "automatic"! Boy, did they have to walk those back!
You're nitpicking
McAdams let you use his favorite word? Okay, maybe it's "minions"....
Post by InsideSparta
eyewitnesses statements again. Missing the forest because you're staring
at a tree. Finding minor inconsistencies in recollections of eyewitness
does not necessarily exonerate someone from having committed the crime.
"Minor" doesn't begin to explain why Sgt. Hill lied to the Commission and
said that he didn't send the "auto 38" transmission, and why transcriber
Sgt. Henslee covered for him & in his transcription (later amended by
other transcribers) and gave that transmission to someone else....
dcw
How many hours of your life have you spent splitting eye-witness hairs?
Or believing people don't make mistakes and then CYA? Was Jean Hill lying
when she said she saw a puppy between the Kennedys or that she saw people
shooting back? It doesn't amount to a hill of beans, nor is it evidence of
anything. It's a waste of time.

The hard evidence found by the WC and confirmed by the HSCA proves for me
who committed the murder. You don't believe that evidence. That makes it
impossible to say to you that we know this eye-witness has to be wrong
because what he said is not backed by the evidence. Quite and advantage
you have.

What is your conspiracy theory? Why not start a new topic and tell us.
Or at least the parts of it you're sure of.

Mark
donald willis
2018-07-06 01:20:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
On Wednesday, June 27, 2018 at 6:13 SNIP And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
You mean the hulls that were proven to have been fired by the gun that was
in Oswald's possession when he was arrested shortly thereafter in the
Texas Theater?
Fired by the gun, but not necessarily fired by Oswald. Who had the pistol
*after* Oswald? Oh, some of the same people (well, person) who picked up
hulls in the depository, then could not admit it....
The gun that was proven to have been purchased by Oswald?
Post by InsideSparta
Wasn't Helen Markham one of the seven individuals that identified Oswald
Who apparently left the scene in a taxi, with Scoggins, if we're to
believe the updated story in Myers' revision of "With Malice"!
Post by InsideSparta
as either being the shooter of Officer Tippit or being the individual
fleeing the scene of the crime with said gun in hand?
First description of said gun was in a DPD radio transmission, and it was
said to be an automatic. Amazing coincidence--first two reports on the
shells and gun said "automatic"! Boy, did they have to walk those back!
You're nitpicking
McAdams let you use his favorite word? Okay, maybe it's "minions"....
Post by InsideSparta
eyewitnesses statements again. Missing the forest because you're staring
at a tree. Finding minor inconsistencies in recollections of eyewitness
does not necessarily exonerate someone from having committed the crime.
"Minor" doesn't begin to explain why Sgt. Hill lied to the Commission and
said that he didn't send the "auto 38" transmission, and why transcriber
Sgt. Henslee covered for him & in his transcription (later amended by
other transcribers) and gave that transmission to someone else....
dcw
How many hours of your life have you spent splitting eye-witness hairs?
How much time do you spend rubber-stamping fake evidence? (e.g., the
hulls in evidence in both Dealey and Oak Cliff)
Post by Mark
Or believing people don't make mistakes and then CYA? Was Jean Hill lying
when she said she saw a puppy between the Kennedys or that she saw people
shooting back? It doesn't amount to a hill of beans, nor is it evidence of
anything. It's a waste of time.
The hard evidence found by the WC and confirmed by the HSCA proves for me
who committed the murder. You don't believe that evidence. That makes it
impossible to say to you that we know this eye-witness has to be wrong
because what he said is not backed by the evidence. Quite and advantage
you have.
What is your conspiracy theory? Why not start a new topic and tell us.
Or at least the parts of it you're sure of.
Mark
Anthony Marsh
2018-07-07 00:16:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by InsideSparta
Post by donald willis
On Wednesday, June 27, 2018 at 6:13 SNIP And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
You mean the hulls that were proven to have been fired by the gun that was
in Oswald's possession when he was arrested shortly thereafter in the
Texas Theater?
Fired by the gun, but not necessarily fired by Oswald. Who had the pistol
*after* Oswald? Oh, some of the same people (well, person) who picked up
hulls in the depository, then could not admit it....
The gun that was proven to have been purchased by Oswald?
Post by InsideSparta
Wasn't Helen Markham one of the seven individuals that identified Oswald
Who apparently left the scene in a taxi, with Scoggins, if we're to
believe the updated story in Myers' revision of "With Malice"!
Post by InsideSparta
as either being the shooter of Officer Tippit or being the individual
fleeing the scene of the crime with said gun in hand?
First description of said gun was in a DPD radio transmission, and it was
said to be an automatic. Amazing coincidence--first two reports on the
shells and gun said "automatic"! Boy, did they have to walk those back!
You're nitpicking
McAdams let you use his favorite word? Okay, maybe it's "minions"....
No, that is MY favorite word. Only I am allowed to call someone a minion.
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by InsideSparta
eyewitnesses statements again. Missing the forest because you're staring
at a tree. Finding minor inconsistencies in recollections of eyewitness
does not necessarily exonerate someone from having committed the crime.
"Minor" doesn't begin to explain why Sgt. Hill lied to the Commission and
said that he didn't send the "auto 38" transmission, and why transcriber
Sgt. Henslee covered for him & in his transcription (later amended by
other transcribers) and gave that transmission to someone else....
dcw
How many hours of your life have you spent splitting eye-witness hairs?
Never rely on eyewitnesses.
Don't be an Alterationist.
Post by Mark
Or believing people don't make mistakes and then CYA? Was Jean Hill lying
Why does CYA have to be only when they make a mistake? Some people are
trained to do it every day regardless.
Post by Mark
when she said she saw a puppy between the Kennedys or that she saw people
shooting back? It doesn't amount to a hill of beans, nor is it evidence of
anything. It's a waste of time.
She did not specify the age. I explained why she made the mistake.
Post by Mark
The hard evidence found by the WC and confirmed by the HSCA proves for me
Oh, so you like the HSCA when its says Oswald, not when it says
conspiracy. Is that called cherypicking? And why do we always have to
pick on those poor cherries? Maybe we could invent a new term like plum
picking.
Post by Mark
who committed the murder. You don't believe that evidence. That makes it
You mean the evidence you destroyed or the evidence you don't even know
about?
Post by Mark
impossible to say to you that we know this eye-witness has to be wrong
because what he said is not backed by the evidence. Quite and advantage
you have.
Maybe he knows something that you don't.
Post by Mark
What is your conspiracy theory? Why not start a new topic and tell us.
Or at least the parts of it you're sure of.
Wouldn't be much of a theory if ALL of it were proven. Buy a dictionary.
Post by Mark
Mark
Mark
2018-07-02 01:04:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Wow! The 3 man Hit Team exposed!
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Cite please.
It was part of the 50th anniversary coverage of the assassination. I
don't have it on tape....
So you are relying on a 5 year old memory. Any chance your memory of it
might be just a wee bit fuzzy?
Could be.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?
Was it there in the first place?
Yes two witnesses: Marina and the blanket.
I double checked that. Seems on the up & up, yes.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported
that it was found "on a lower floor".
What ATF man?
I believe his name was Frank Ellsworth. It was: "Mr. Ellsworth & another
officer from ATF were also there." -- Sims & Boyd report p3 (Sims Exh. A).
My main reference, though, is from a book, which I can't lay my hands on
right now.... I think the author's name was Dick Russell.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police
radio outside) at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing
of the (noisy) discovery of the rifle--at about that same time--
on the floor which they were on!
Ahaa! The plot thickens!!!
Clever way of dismissing unwanted witness evidence!
What evidence?
The reports of Dets. Montgomery and Johnson.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Not used by any sniper? Where did the real shots come from?
Possibly the 5th floor. Marsh says one came from the Gassy Knoll....
So you reject the location where a number of witnesses placed the gunman
They are contradictory--most said the gun was at a wide open window.
,
Post by bigdog
where shells were found
Again: where shells were placed, by Fritz.
, which was on the same floor where the rifle was
Post by bigdog
found
Montgomery and/or Johnson says otherwise. They reported hearing none of
the commotion when it was found. And they were there when it was
found--elsewhere, apparently!
, where the fingerprints of the owner were found. Yet you are willing
Post by bigdog
to entertain other locations for which there is no evidence whatsoever of
a shooter.
12:37 DPD radio transmission: the shooting came from the "second window
from the end", upper right hand corner of the TSBD. Can't have been the
6th floor since that window was closed....
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
Do you doubt he saw a man in the window? Several witness saw a man
or rifle in the same window.
Yes, the same wide open window!
How many inches does the window have to be open to qualify as wide open?
I think bigdog or unholy samovar just asked the same question. I'll give
the same answer: See Brennan's testimony, where he says the shooter's
window was open just like the windows on the floor below--i.e., wide open.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
Amos Euins never said that. A witness claims he overheard Euins say that.
Never say never again. Yes, reporter Kent Biffle overheard Euins say
exactly that. But another reporter, James Underwood, actually talked to
"Euins said, 'It was a colored man.' I said, 'Are you sure it was a
colored man?' He said, 'Yes, sir'." (4/1/64 Commission testimony of
Underwood)
So, you lose, and if you were fair you'd accept, now, that Euins did say
that, no matter what he said after debriefing. But you won't. You're a
CT, and are unable to accept contradictory information....
So what if Euins said that. He was the only one of the witnesses who said
the shooter on the 6th floor was black. Why would you go with the outlier?
I daresay that YOU yourself go with the "outlier", Euins. Several
witnesses testified that the sniper's window was wide open--Brennan,
Fischer, Edwards, Jackson, and sometimes Couch. Only Euins said it was
only half open: He's the outlier here! Why would you go with him on
this--he's the only witness who said that.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Commission counsel took the coward's way out and did not ask Euins about
the newspaper interviews or the phrase "colored man".
Post by claviger
Euins denies he ever said anything like that.
I probably would have knuckled under, too, if I had some unwanted
information and my family was threatened, as Mark Lane wrote re Euins in
Rush to Judgment. (I know, I know, and yet some of what he said about
Mrs. Markham was later confirmed--see "With Malice")
Oh, Mark Lane said that. There's a reliable source.
Apparently, he has lied (if I trust the headlines here), just like that
other lawyer, Bugliosi....
Wow, so many were threatened. Now Euins
No, not in 2018. Back in '63-4.
Yes, back then. I didn't make myself clear. I don't believe I've heard that one before. Evidence? Mark
Post by donald willis
and Jean Hill. I wish someone
Post by Mark
would provide evidence. But, what I would really like to say is--I can
cite you example after example of Mark Lane's "lies" (your description).
Can you tell me when Buglisoi lied on purpose? Mark
Yes, in his book, in the paragraph on Mrs. Markham. He wrote that she
testified that she saw the suspect cut acro+ss the lawn in front of the
Davis abode. She was consistent, though, in saying that the man took the
SIDEWALK right down to the intersection. And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
I will check that out. Do you have others? Mark
Anthony Marsh
2018-07-02 17:36:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Wow! The 3 man Hit Team exposed!
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Cite please.
It was part of the 50th anniversary coverage of the assassination. I
don't have it on tape....
So you are relying on a 5 year old memory. Any chance your memory of it
might be just a wee bit fuzzy?
Could be.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?
Was it there in the first place?
Yes two witnesses: Marina and the blanket.
I double checked that. Seems on the up & up, yes.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported
that it was found "on a lower floor".
What ATF man?
I believe his name was Frank Ellsworth. It was: "Mr. Ellsworth & another
officer from ATF were also there." -- Sims & Boyd report p3 (Sims Exh. A).
My main reference, though, is from a book, which I can't lay my hands on
right now.... I think the author's name was Dick Russell.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police
radio outside) at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing
of the (noisy) discovery of the rifle--at about that same time--
on the floor which they were on!
Ahaa! The plot thickens!!!
Clever way of dismissing unwanted witness evidence!
What evidence?
The reports of Dets. Montgomery and Johnson.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Not used by any sniper? Where did the real shots come from?
Possibly the 5th floor. Marsh says one came from the Gassy Knoll....
So you reject the location where a number of witnesses placed the gunman
They are contradictory--most said the gun was at a wide open window.
,
Post by bigdog
where shells were found
Again: where shells were placed, by Fritz.
, which was on the same floor where the rifle was
Post by bigdog
found
Montgomery and/or Johnson says otherwise. They reported hearing none of
the commotion when it was found. And they were there when it was
found--elsewhere, apparently!
, where the fingerprints of the owner were found. Yet you are willing
Post by bigdog
to entertain other locations for which there is no evidence whatsoever of
a shooter.
12:37 DPD radio transmission: the shooting came from the "second window
from the end", upper right hand corner of the TSBD. Can't have been the
6th floor since that window was closed....
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
Do you doubt he saw a man in the window? Several witness saw a man
or rifle in the same window.
Yes, the same wide open window!
How many inches does the window have to be open to qualify as wide open?
I think bigdog or unholy samovar just asked the same question. I'll give
the same answer: See Brennan's testimony, where he says the shooter's
window was open just like the windows on the floor below--i.e., wide open.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
Amos Euins never said that. A witness claims he overheard Euins say that.
Never say never again. Yes, reporter Kent Biffle overheard Euins say
exactly that. But another reporter, James Underwood, actually talked to
"Euins said, 'It was a colored man.' I said, 'Are you sure it was a
colored man?' He said, 'Yes, sir'." (4/1/64 Commission testimony of
Underwood)
So, you lose, and if you were fair you'd accept, now, that Euins did say
that, no matter what he said after debriefing. But you won't. You're a
CT, and are unable to accept contradictory information....
So what if Euins said that. He was the only one of the witnesses who said
the shooter on the 6th floor was black. Why would you go with the outlier?
I daresay that YOU yourself go with the "outlier", Euins. Several
witnesses testified that the sniper's window was wide open--Brennan,
Fischer, Edwards, Jackson, and sometimes Couch. Only Euins said it was
only half open: He's the outlier here! Why would you go with him on
this--he's the only witness who said that.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Commission counsel took the coward's way out and did not ask Euins about
the newspaper interviews or the phrase "colored man".
Post by claviger
Euins denies he ever said anything like that.
I probably would have knuckled under, too, if I had some unwanted
information and my family was threatened, as Mark Lane wrote re Euins in
Rush to Judgment. (I know, I know, and yet some of what he said about
Mrs. Markham was later confirmed--see "With Malice")
Oh, Mark Lane said that. There's a reliable source.
Apparently, he has lied (if I trust the headlines here), just like that
other lawyer, Bugliosi....
Wow, so many were threatened. Now Euins
No, not in 2018. Back in '63-4.
Yes, back then. I didn't make myself clear. I don't believe I've heard that one before. Evidence? Mark
Post by donald willis
and Jean Hill. I wish someone
Post by Mark
would provide evidence. But, what I would really like to say is--I can
cite you example after example of Mark Lane's "lies" (your description).
Can you tell me when Buglisoi lied on purpose? Mark
Yes, in his book, in the paragraph on Mrs. Markham. He wrote that she
testified that she saw the suspect cut acro+ss the lawn in front of the
Davis abode. She was consistent, though, in saying that the man took the
SIDEWALK right down to the intersection. And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
I will check that out. Do you have others? Mark
Someone made a list of Bugliosi's lies. Google it.
donald willis
2018-07-02 19:43:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Wow! The 3 man Hit Team exposed!
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Cite please.
It was part of the 50th anniversary coverage of the assassination. I
don't have it on tape....
So you are relying on a 5 year old memory. Any chance your memory of it
might be just a wee bit fuzzy?
Could be.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?
Was it there in the first place?
Yes two witnesses: Marina and the blanket.
I double checked that. Seems on the up & up, yes.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported
that it was found "on a lower floor".
What ATF man?
I believe his name was Frank Ellsworth. It was: "Mr. Ellsworth & another
officer from ATF were also there." -- Sims & Boyd report p3 (Sims Exh. A).
My main reference, though, is from a book, which I can't lay my hands on
right now.... I think the author's name was Dick Russell.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police
radio outside) at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing
of the (noisy) discovery of the rifle--at about that same time--
on the floor which they were on!
Ahaa! The plot thickens!!!
Clever way of dismissing unwanted witness evidence!
What evidence?
The reports of Dets. Montgomery and Johnson.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Not used by any sniper? Where did the real shots come from?
Possibly the 5th floor. Marsh says one came from the Gassy Knoll....
So you reject the location where a number of witnesses placed the gunman
They are contradictory--most said the gun was at a wide open window.
,
Post by bigdog
where shells were found
Again: where shells were placed, by Fritz.
, which was on the same floor where the rifle was
Post by bigdog
found
Montgomery and/or Johnson says otherwise. They reported hearing none of
the commotion when it was found. And they were there when it was
found--elsewhere, apparently!
, where the fingerprints of the owner were found. Yet you are willing
Post by bigdog
to entertain other locations for which there is no evidence whatsoever of
a shooter.
12:37 DPD radio transmission: the shooting came from the "second window
from the end", upper right hand corner of the TSBD. Can't have been the
6th floor since that window was closed....
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
Do you doubt he saw a man in the window? Several witness saw a man
or rifle in the same window.
Yes, the same wide open window!
How many inches does the window have to be open to qualify as wide open?
I think bigdog or unholy samovar just asked the same question. I'll give
the same answer: See Brennan's testimony, where he says the shooter's
window was open just like the windows on the floor below--i.e., wide open.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
Amos Euins never said that. A witness claims he overheard Euins say that.
Never say never again. Yes, reporter Kent Biffle overheard Euins say
exactly that. But another reporter, James Underwood, actually talked to
"Euins said, 'It was a colored man.' I said, 'Are you sure it was a
colored man?' He said, 'Yes, sir'." (4/1/64 Commission testimony of
Underwood)
So, you lose, and if you were fair you'd accept, now, that Euins did say
that, no matter what he said after debriefing. But you won't. You're a
CT, and are unable to accept contradictory information....
So what if Euins said that. He was the only one of the witnesses who said
the shooter on the 6th floor was black. Why would you go with the outlier?
I daresay that YOU yourself go with the "outlier", Euins. Several
witnesses testified that the sniper's window was wide open--Brennan,
Fischer, Edwards, Jackson, and sometimes Couch. Only Euins said it was
only half open: He's the outlier here! Why would you go with him on
this--he's the only witness who said that.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Commission counsel took the coward's way out and did not ask Euins about
the newspaper interviews or the phrase "colored man".
Post by claviger
Euins denies he ever said anything like that.
I probably would have knuckled under, too, if I had some unwanted
information and my family was threatened, as Mark Lane wrote re Euins in
Rush to Judgment. (I know, I know, and yet some of what he said about
Mrs. Markham was later confirmed--see "With Malice")
Oh, Mark Lane said that. There's a reliable source.
Apparently, he has lied (if I trust the headlines here), just like that
other lawyer, Bugliosi....
Wow, so many were threatened. Now Euins
No, not in 2018. Back in '63-4.
Yes, back then. I didn't make myself clear. I don't believe I've heard
that one before. Evidence? Mark
No--just the reference in Lane's book.
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
and Jean Hill. I wish someone
Post by Mark
would provide evidence. But, what I would really like to say is--I can
cite you example after example of Mark Lane's "lies" (your description).
Can you tell me when Buglisoi lied on purpose? Mark
Yes, in his book, in the paragraph on Mrs. Markham. He wrote that she
testified that she saw the suspect cut acro+ss the lawn in front of the
Davis abode. She was consistent, though, in saying that the man took the
SIDEWALK right down to the intersection. And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
I will check that out. Do you have others? Mark
Let me check the pencil notations in my Bugliosi....
donald willis
2018-07-03 17:12:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark
On Friday, June 29, 2018 at 6:15:36 PM UTC-7, Mark wrote: CUT
Post by Mark
would provide evidence. But, what I would really like to say is--I can
cite you example after example of Mark Lane's "lies" (your description).
Can you tell me when Buglisoi lied on purpose? Mark
Yes, in his book, in the paragraph on Mrs. Markham. He wrote that she
testified that she saw the suspect cut acro+ss the lawn in front of the
Davis abode. She was consistent, though, in saying that the man took the
SIDEWALK right down to the intersection. And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
I will check that out. Do you have others? Mark
You've started me perusing B's book again. I don't think I've found
another instance yet of B lying. But here's an example of an apparent
innocent mistake that he made:

"[Brennan] notices... three black men on the fifth floor...." (p52, Four
Days in November)

I don't believe that Brennan ever said that he saw more than TWO men.
Bugliosi just didn't do a close enough reading.

Then, referencing Brennan again, Bugliosi states that he saw "a fellow
just above them on the sixth floor, who for a moment sits sideways on the
low windowsill." (p52 again)

Brennan did say this. Bugliosi gets around the fact that the bottom part
of the window--the part that opens--is only open halfway by adding "low
windowsill". Whether or not this physical feat was even possible, it
seems to me that someone who is sunning himself on a window sill in the
middle of the day is hardly someone looking to assassinate anyone, then
slink away furtively into the background. This is what I'd call a red
flag, which LNers don't like to address.

dcw
Mark
2018-07-04 14:59:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
On Friday, June 29, 2018 at 6:15:36 PM UTC-7, Mark wrote: CUT
Post by Mark
would provide evidence. But, what I would really like to say is--I can
cite you example after example of Mark Lane's "lies" (your description).
Can you tell me when Buglisoi lied on purpose? Mark
Yes, in his book, in the paragraph on Mrs. Markham. He wrote that she
testified that she saw the suspect cut acro+ss the lawn in front of the
Davis abode. She was consistent, though, in saying that the man took the
SIDEWALK right down to the intersection. And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
I will check that out. Do you have others? Mark
You've started me perusing B's book again. I don't think I've found
another instance yet of B lying. But here's an example of an apparent
"[Brennan] notices... three black men on the fifth floor...." (p52, Four
Days in November)
I don't believe that Brennan ever said that he saw more than TWO men.
Bugliosi just didn't do a close enough reading.
I don't see that on p. 52 of RC, but the hardcover and paperback
editions of a book can have different content page numbers. For argument
sake, instead looking at every Brennan cite in RC, and because I do not
think this is important, let's agree Brennan saw 2 or more men on the 5th
floor. Was he mistaken, confused, talking too fast? In the mass confusion
after the shooting? Perish the thought.
Post by donald willis
Then, referencing Brennan again, Bugliosi states that he saw "a fellow
just above them on the sixth floor, who for a moment sits sideways on the
low windowsill." (p52 again)
Brennan did say this. Bugliosi gets around the fact that the bottom part
of the window--the part that opens--is only open halfway by adding "low
windowsill". Whether or not this physical feat was even possible, it
seems to me that someone who is sunning himself on a window sill in the
middle of the day is hardly someone looking to assassinate anyone, then
slink away furtively into the background. This is what I'd call a red
flag, which LNers don't like to address.
My gracious. (Again, different page numbers I guess.) A Bugliosi
mistake, or a difference of interpretation? First, let's point out Brennan
was referring to the the man he saw shooting out of the 6th floor window.
A red flag? Hardly. Very easy for me to believe Brennan saw LHO sitting at
one point on the rifle rest books right in front of the window and thought
from his angle LHO was sitting on the windowsill. Sun bathing is your
addition.

Jean Hill, who was much closer to watch she thought see saw: ". . .
looking at a little dog between them." "I thought I saw men in plain
clothes shooting back . . ." Now, THERE'S a red flag for us about the
reliability of eyewitnesses. Mark
donald willis
2018-07-05 03:04:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
On Friday, June 29, 2018 at 6:15:36 PM UTC-7, Mark wrote: CUT
Post by Mark
would provide evidence. But, what I would really like to say is--I can
cite you example after example of Mark Lane's "lies" (your description).
Can you tell me when Buglisoi lied on purpose? Mark
Yes, in his book, in the paragraph on Mrs. Markham. He wrote that she
testified that she saw the suspect cut acro+ss the lawn in front of the
Davis abode. She was consistent, though, in saying that the man took the
SIDEWALK right down to the intersection. And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
I will check that out. Do you have others? Mark
You've started me perusing B's book again. I don't think I've found
another instance yet of B lying. But here's an example of an apparent
"[Brennan] notices... three black men on the fifth floor...." (p52, Four
Days in November)
I don't believe that Brennan ever said that he saw more than TWO men.
Bugliosi just didn't do a close enough reading.
I don't see that on p. 52 of RC, but the hardcover and paperback
editions of a book can have different content page numbers. For argument
sake, instead looking at every Brennan cite in RC, and because I do not
think this is important
Unimportant, yes, but sloppy research on Bugs' part. He saw elsewhere
that three men were supposed to be up there....

, let's agree Brennan saw 2 or more men on the 5th
Post by Mark
floor.
Can't quite agree. In the course of his Commission stint, Williams was
asked if Brennan saw him coming out the front and said something like,
"This is the man I saw on the 5th floor." Of course, Williams says, "No."
But I've not been able to track down the source of this quote. So: 1, 2,
or 3....

Was he mistaken, confused, talking too fast? In the mass confusion
Post by Mark
after the shooting? Perish the thought.
Post by donald willis
Then, referencing Brennan again, Bugliosi states that he saw "a fellow
just above them on the sixth floor, who for a moment sits sideways on the
low windowsill." (p52 again)
Brennan did say this. Bugliosi gets around the fact that the bottom part
of the window--the part that opens--is only open halfway by adding "low
windowsill". Whether or not this physical feat was even possible, it
seems to me that someone who is sunning himself on a window sill in the
middle of the day is hardly someone looking to assassinate anyone, then
slink away furtively into the background. This is what I'd call a red
flag, which LNers don't like to address.
My gracious. (Again, different page numbers I guess.) A Bugliosi
mistake, or a difference of interpretation? First, let's point out Brennan
was referring to the the man he saw shooting out of the 6th floor window.
A red flag? Hardly. Very easy for me to believe Brennan saw LHO sitting at
one point on the rifle rest books right in front of the window and thought
from his angle LHO was sitting on the windowsill. Sun bathing is your
addition.
I'd go along with this, but fellow witness Fischer said he could even see
the guy's slacks! This guy up there was not being secretive--BEFORE the
shooting. He seems, in fact, to have wanted to be seen....

dcw
Mark
2018-07-05 23:25:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
On Friday, June 29, 2018 at 6:15:36 PM UTC-7, Mark wrote: CUT
Post by Mark
would provide evidence. But, what I would really like to say is--I can
cite you example after example of Mark Lane's "lies" (your description).
Can you tell me when Buglisoi lied on purpose? Mark
Yes, in his book, in the paragraph on Mrs. Markham. He wrote that she
testified that she saw the suspect cut acro+ss the lawn in front of the
Davis abode. She was consistent, though, in saying that the man took the
SIDEWALK right down to the intersection. And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
I will check that out. Do you have others? Mark
You've started me perusing B's book again. I don't think I've found
another instance yet of B lying. But here's an example of an apparent
"[Brennan] notices... three black men on the fifth floor...." (p52, Four
Days in November)
I don't believe that Brennan ever said that he saw more than TWO men.
Bugliosi just didn't do a close enough reading.
I don't see that on p. 52 of RC, but the hardcover and paperback
editions of a book can have different content page numbers. For argument
sake, instead looking at every Brennan cite in RC, and because I do not
think this is important
Unimportant, yes, but sloppy research on Bugs' part. He saw elsewhere
that three men were supposed to be up there....
, let's agree Brennan saw 2 or more men on the 5th
Post by Mark
floor.
Can't quite agree. In the course of his Commission stint, Williams was
asked if Brennan saw him coming out the front and said something like,
"This is the man I saw on the 5th floor." Of course, Williams says, "No."
But I've not been able to track down the source of this quote. So: 1, 2,
or 3....
Was he mistaken, confused, talking too fast? In the mass confusion
Post by Mark
after the shooting? Perish the thought.
Post by donald willis
Then, referencing Brennan again, Bugliosi states that he saw "a fellow
just above them on the sixth floor, who for a moment sits sideways on the
low windowsill." (p52 again)
Brennan did say this. Bugliosi gets around the fact that the bottom part
of the window--the part that opens--is only open halfway by adding "low
windowsill". Whether or not this physical feat was even possible, it
seems to me that someone who is sunning himself on a window sill in the
middle of the day is hardly someone looking to assassinate anyone, then
slink away furtively into the background. This is what I'd call a red
flag, which LNers don't like to address.
My gracious. (Again, different page numbers I guess.) A Bugliosi
mistake, or a difference of interpretation? First, let's point out Brennan
was referring to the the man he saw shooting out of the 6th floor window.
A red flag? Hardly. Very easy for me to believe Brennan saw LHO sitting at
one point on the rifle rest books right in front of the window and thought
from his angle LHO was sitting on the windowsill. Sun bathing is your
addition.
I'd go along with this, but fellow witness Fischer said he could even see
the guy's slacks! This guy up there was not being secretive--BEFORE the
shooting. He seems, in fact, to have wanted to be seen....
dcw
And Jean Hill saw a puppy in the limo and people shooting back at the
shooter. So what?! Mark
Anthony Marsh
2018-07-05 23:11:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
On Friday, June 29, 2018 at 6:15:36 PM UTC-7, Mark wrote: CUT
Post by Mark
would provide evidence. But, what I would really like to say is--I can
cite you example after example of Mark Lane's "lies" (your description).
Can you tell me when Buglisoi lied on purpose? Mark
Yes, in his book, in the paragraph on Mrs. Markham. He wrote that she
testified that she saw the suspect cut acro+ss the lawn in front of the
Davis abode. She was consistent, though, in saying that the man took the
SIDEWALK right down to the intersection. And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
I will check that out. Do you have others? Mark
You've started me perusing B's book again. I don't think I've found
B who? You guys are too hip. Do you mean Brennan?
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
another instance yet of B lying. But here's an example of an apparent
OMG. You mean someone once made an innocent mistake?
And therefore it means the person must be lying about EVEYRYTHING?
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
"[Brennan] notices... three black men on the fifth floor...." (p52, Four
Days in November)
I don't believe that Brennan ever said that he saw more than TWO men.
Bugliosi just didn't do a close enough reading.
I don't see that on p. 52 of RC, but the hardcover and paperback
editions of a book can have different content page numbers. For argument
sake, instead looking at every Brennan cite in RC, and because I do not
think this is important, let's agree Brennan saw 2 or more men on the 5th
floor. Was he mistaken, confused, talking too fast? In the mass confusion
after the shooting? Perish the thought.
Well in fact the HSCA pointed out that the third black man could not be
seen and did not show up on the photos because he was too far back from
the window and in the shadows. They even enhanced the photo so that we can
SEE that the third man was indeed there.
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Then, referencing Brennan again, Bugliosi states that he saw "a fellow
just above them on the sixth floor, who for a moment sits sideways on the
low windowsill." (p52 again)
Brennan did say this. Bugliosi gets around the fact that the bottom part
of the window--the part that opens--is only open halfway by adding "low
windowsill". Whether or not this physical feat was even possible, it
seems to me that someone who is sunning himself on a window sill in the
No only that, but the boxes were stacked up and in the way of anyone
sitting on the window sill. It's just a case of a liar adding one too many
details to make his story sound more believable and not realizing that it
would be physically impossible. Like Trump saying that during 9/11 he saw
thousands of Muslims cheering.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/nov/22/donald-trump/fact-checking-trumps-claim-thousands-new-jersey-ch/


Trump
"I watched in Jersey City, N.J., where thousands and thousands of people
were cheering" as the World Trade Center collapsed.

??? Donald Trump on Saturday, November 21st, 2015 in comments during a speech
Pants on Fire!
Fact-checking Trump's claim that thousands in New Jersey cheered when
World Trade Center tumbled

By Lauren Carroll on Sunday, November 22nd, 2015 at 6:17 p.m.

Donald Trump on Saturday tried to back away from his support for a
government database to track Muslims in the United States, an idea that
drew sharp rebukes from his Republican presidential rivals and disbelief
from legal experts.

Arguing that there are terrorist sympathizers in the United States,
Donald Trump says he saw "thousands" of New Jerseyans celebrating after
the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001.

"I watched when the World Trade Center came tumbling down," the
Republican presidential candidate said at a Nov. 21 rally in Birmingham,
Ala. "And I watched in Jersey City, N.J., where thousands and thousands
of people were cheering as that building was coming down. Thousands of
people were cheering."

The next day, ABC This Week host George Stephanopoulos asked Trump if he
misspoke, noting that "the police say that didn't happen."

Trump -- who has said he was in his Manhattan apartment the morning of
the attack -- doubled down.

"It was on television. I saw it," Trump said. "It was well covered at
the time, George. Now, I know they don't like to talk about it, but it
was well covered at the time. There were people over in New Jersey that
were watching it, a heavy Arab population, that were cheering as the
buildings came down. Not good."

We looked back at the record to see what we could find about American
Muslim celebrations in New Jersey on 9/11. While we found widely
broadcast video of people in the Palestinian territories celebrating, we
found no evidence to back up Trump???s description of events on American soil.

Urban myth

We conducted an exhaustive search of newspaper and television
transcripts on LexisNexis, looking for reports from September 2001
through December 2001 that made any mention of Muslims in New Jersey
celebrating the 9/11 attacks.

Regarding Jersey City, which Trump mentioned specifically, we found two
uncorroborated and unsourced mentions. Neither begins to approach the
scale Trump described.

The Associated Press, on Sept. 17, 2001, described "rumors of rooftop
celebrations of the attack by Muslims" in Jersey City. But the same
report said those rumors were "unfounded."

The Washington Post, on Sept. 18, 2001, published an article that
claimed "law enforcement authorities detained and questioned a number of
people who were allegedly seen celebrating the attacks and holding
tailgate-style parties on rooftops while they watched the devastation on
the other side of the river." The Post story includes no source for this
information, and we found no evidence that any of these allegations ever
stuck.

A more rampant rumor of Muslim or Arab-Americans cheering the attacks
centered around nearby Paterson, N.J. But that turned out to be just a
rumor, spawned by chain emails and perpetuated by shock jock Howard
Stern???s radio show.

The Star-Ledger reported that as the rumors spread, "Paterson police
rushed to South Main Street, the center of the city's Middle Eastern
community."

"When we got there, they were all in prayer," Paterson Police Chief
Lawrence Spagnola said.

Three percent of New Jersey residents are Muslim -- the highest of any
state -- according to Pew Research Center. Suspected 9/11 terrorists had
ties to Jersey City and Paterson. But there is no conclusive evidence
that any New Jersey residents celebrated the attacks, and there is no
evidence whatsoever of any demonstrations where "thousands and thousands
of people" cheered.

Nor is there any evidence Trump saw these events play out in any way, be
it on TV or in person. We reached out to Trump???s campaign but didn???t
hear back.

What we did find are many stories of Muslims living in New Jersey
speaking out against the attacks and bracing themselves for anti-Muslim
backlash. For example, Paterson residents put up a banner on the city???s
main street that said "The Muslim Community Does Not Support Terrorism.''

Jersey City Mayor Steven Fulop responded to Trump???s statement on
Twitter, saying Trump "has memory issues or willfully distorts the truth."

Our ruling

Trump said he "watched in Jersey City, N.J., where thousands and
thousands of people were cheering" as the World Trade Center collapsed.

This defies basic logic. If thousands and thousands of people were
celebrating the 9/11 attacks on American soil, many people beyond Trump
would remember it. And in the 21st century, there would be video or
visual evidence.

Instead, all we found were a couple of news articles that described
rumors of celebrations that were either debunked or unproven.

Trump???s recollection of events in New Jersey in the hours after the
Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks flies in the face of all the evidence
we could find. We rate this statement Pants on Fire.
Share the Facts

Likewise I find Brennan's statement Pants on Fire.
Do you think someone should be sentenced to death based on testimony
from a professional liar? I know a bunch of Nazis here who do.
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
middle of the day is hardly someone looking to assassinate anyone, then
slink away furtively into the background. This is what I'd call a red
flag, which LNers don't like to address.
My gracious. (Again, different page numbers I guess.) A Bugliosi
mistake, or a difference of interpretation? First, let's point out Brennan
Hmm, Bugliosi was a professional liar.
Post by Mark
was referring to the the man he saw shooting out of the 6th floor window.
A red flag? Hardly. Very easy for me to believe Brennan saw LHO sitting at
one point on the rifle rest books right in front of the window and thought
from his angle LHO was sitting on the windowsill. Sun bathing is your
addition.
Jean Hill, who was much closer to watch she thought see saw: ". . .
looking at a little dog between them." "I thought I saw men in plain
clothes shooting back . . ." Now, THERE'S a red flag for us about the
reliability of eyewitnesses. Mark
In case you never heard this before: Never rely on witnesses.
donald willis
2018-07-03 20:30:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
On Thursday, June 28, 2018 at 7:01:39 PM UTC-5, donald willis wrot
cut really like to say is--I can
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
cite you example after example of Mark Lane's "lies" (your description).
Can you tell me when Buglisoi lied on purpose? Mark
Yes, in his book, in the paragraph on Mrs. Markham. He wrote that she
testified that she saw the suspect cut acro+ss the lawn in front of the
Davis abode. She was consistent, though, in saying that the man took the
SIDEWALK right down to the intersection. And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
I will check that out. Do you have others? Mark
Our next Bugliosi exhibit is on page 61:

"Loose plaster and dirt fall from the ceiling onto Bonnie Ray Williams'
hair".

Bugiosi cites BRW's testimony, and so he did testify. But in the first
FBI interviews of both Jarman & Norman the debris was directed towards
Harold Norman's head. And I think when Norman was (much later)
interviewed by the HSCA, the debris was again all his. So it wasn't just
FBI confusion. The story was changed. Why? At the very least, Bugliosi
can't just take Williams' word for it, or for that matter just Norman's or
Jarman's.

One possible answer to this riddle: Nothing fell on nobody. It was just
another way to direct everyone's attention to the 6th floor. I guess the
brains behind this ruse figured, rightly, as it turns out, that nobody
would pay any attention to anything but Commission testimony. Screw the
FBI & the HSCA....

dcw
Mark
2018-07-04 14:58:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
On Thursday, June 28, 2018 at 7:01:39 PM UTC-5, donald willis wrot
cut really like to say is--I can
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
cite you example after example of Mark Lane's "lies" (your description).
Can you tell me when Buglisoi lied on purpose? Mark
Yes, in his book, in the paragraph on Mrs. Markham. He wrote that she
testified that she saw the suspect cut acro+ss the lawn in front of the
Davis abode. She was consistent, though, in saying that the man took the
SIDEWALK right down to the intersection. And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
I will check that out. Do you have others? Mark
"Loose plaster and dirt fall from the ceiling onto Bonnie Ray Williams'
hair".
Bugiosi cites BRW's testimony, and so he did testify. But in the first
FBI interviews of both Jarman & Norman the debris was directed towards
Harold Norman's head. And I think when Norman was (much later)
interviewed by the HSCA, the debris was again all his. So it wasn't just
FBI confusion. The story was changed. Why? At the very least, Bugliosi
can't just take Williams' word for it, or for that matter just Norman's or
Jarman's.
One possible answer to this riddle: Nothing fell on nobody. It was just
another way to direct everyone's attention to the 6th floor. I guess the
brains behind this ruse figured, rightly, as it turns out, that nobody
would pay any attention to anything but Commission testimony. Screw the
FBI & the HSCA....
dcw
If "nothing fell on nobody" then you believe Williams, Jarman and Norman
were lying and part of your conspiracy theory? Mark
donald willis
2018-07-05 03:03:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
On Thursday, June 28, 2018 at 7:01:39 PM UTC-5, donald willis wrot
cut really like to say is--I can
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
cite you example after example of Mark Lane's "lies" (your description).
Can you tell me when Buglisoi lied on purpose? Mark
Yes, in his book, in the paragraph on Mrs. Markham. He wrote that she
testified that she saw the suspect cut acro+ss the lawn in front of the
Davis abode. She was consistent, though, in saying that the man took the
SIDEWALK right down to the intersection. And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
I will check that out. Do you have others? Mark
"Loose plaster and dirt fall from the ceiling onto Bonnie Ray Williams'
hair".
Bugiosi cites BRW's testimony, and so he did testify. But in the first
FBI interviews of both Jarman & Norman the debris was directed towards
Harold Norman's head. And I think when Norman was (much later)
interviewed by the HSCA, the debris was again all his. So it wasn't just
FBI confusion. The story was changed. Why? At the very least, Bugliosi
can't just take Williams' word for it, or for that matter just Norman's or
Jarman's.
One possible answer to this riddle: Nothing fell on nobody. It was just
another way to direct everyone's attention to the 6th floor. I guess the
brains behind this ruse figured, rightly, as it turns out, that nobody
would pay any attention to anything but Commission testimony. Screw the
FBI & the HSCA....
dcw
If "nothing fell on nobody" then you believe Williams, Jarman and Norman
were lying and part of your conspiracy theory? Mark
Let me peel away Norman & Jarman, who I believe were only roped into the
cover-up, *afterwards*. Yes, I believe Williams WAS part of the
conspiracy.

dcw
Mark
2018-07-05 23:22:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
On Thursday, June 28, 2018 at 7:01:39 PM UTC-5, donald willis wrot
cut really like to say is--I can
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
cite you example after example of Mark Lane's "lies" (your description).
Can you tell me when Buglisoi lied on purpose? Mark
Yes, in his book, in the paragraph on Mrs. Markham. He wrote that she
testified that she saw the suspect cut acro+ss the lawn in front of the
Davis abode. She was consistent, though, in saying that the man took the
SIDEWALK right down to the intersection. And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
I will check that out. Do you have others? Mark
"Loose plaster and dirt fall from the ceiling onto Bonnie Ray Williams'
hair".
Bugiosi cites BRW's testimony, and so he did testify. But in the first
FBI interviews of both Jarman & Norman the debris was directed towards
Harold Norman's head. And I think when Norman was (much later)
interviewed by the HSCA, the debris was again all his. So it wasn't just
FBI confusion. The story was changed. Why? At the very least, Bugliosi
can't just take Williams' word for it, or for that matter just Norman's or
Jarman's.
One possible answer to this riddle: Nothing fell on nobody. It was just
another way to direct everyone's attention to the 6th floor. I guess the
brains behind this ruse figured, rightly, as it turns out, that nobody
would pay any attention to anything but Commission testimony. Screw the
FBI & the HSCA....
dcw
If "nothing fell on nobody" then you believe Williams, Jarman and Norman
were lying and part of your conspiracy theory? Mark
Let me peel away Norman & Jarman, who I believe were only roped into the
cover-up, *afterwards*. Yes, I believe Williams WAS part of the
conspiracy.
dcw
What do you mean by "roped into"? Did they lie knowingly or not? Mark
donald willis
2018-07-07 00:40:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
On Thursday, June 28, 2018 at 7:01:39 PM UTC-5, donald willis wrot
cut really like to say is--I can
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
cite you example after example of Mark Lane's "lies" (your description).
Can you tell me when Buglisoi lied on purpose? Mark
Yes, in his book, in the paragraph on Mrs. Markham. He wrote that she
testified that she saw the suspect cut acro+ss the lawn in front of the
Davis abode. She was consistent, though, in saying that the man took the
SIDEWALK right down to the intersection. And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
I will check that out. Do you have others? Mark
"Loose plaster and dirt fall from the ceiling onto Bonnie Ray Williams'
hair".
Bugiosi cites BRW's testimony, and so he did testify. But in the first
FBI interviews of both Jarman & Norman the debris was directed towards
Harold Norman's head. And I think when Norman was (much later)
interviewed by the HSCA, the debris was again all his. So it wasn't just
FBI confusion. The story was changed. Why? At the very least, Bugliosi
can't just take Williams' word for it, or for that matter just Norman's or
Jarman's.
One possible answer to this riddle: Nothing fell on nobody. It was just
another way to direct everyone's attention to the 6th floor. I guess the
brains behind this ruse figured, rightly, as it turns out, that nobody
would pay any attention to anything but Commission testimony. Screw the
FBI & the HSCA....
dcw
If "nothing fell on nobody" then you believe Williams, Jarman and Norman
were lying and part of your conspiracy theory? Mark
Let me peel away Norman & Jarman, who I believe were only roped into the
cover-up, *afterwards*. Yes, I believe Williams WAS part of the
conspiracy.
dcw
What do you mean by "roped into"? Did they lie knowingly or not? Mark
I'm afraid they did lie, but not until 11/24 (Jarman) and 11/26 (Norman).
Apparently, they were very reluctant to say they were on the fifth floor.
They did hold out....

bigdog
2018-07-07 00:17:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
On Thursday, June 28, 2018 at 7:01:39 PM UTC-5, donald willis wrot
cut really like to say is--I can
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
cite you example after example of Mark Lane's "lies" (your description).
Can you tell me when Buglisoi lied on purpose? Mark
Yes, in his book, in the paragraph on Mrs. Markham. He wrote that she
testified that she saw the suspect cut acro+ss the lawn in front of the
Davis abode. She was consistent, though, in saying that the man took the
SIDEWALK right down to the intersection. And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
I will check that out. Do you have others? Mark
"Loose plaster and dirt fall from the ceiling onto Bonnie Ray Williams'
hair".
Bugiosi cites BRW's testimony, and so he did testify. But in the first
FBI interviews of both Jarman & Norman the debris was directed towards
Harold Norman's head. And I think when Norman was (much later)
interviewed by the HSCA, the debris was again all his. So it wasn't just
FBI confusion. The story was changed. Why? At the very least, Bugliosi
can't just take Williams' word for it, or for that matter just Norman's or
Jarman's.
One possible answer to this riddle: Nothing fell on nobody. It was just
another way to direct everyone's attention to the 6th floor. I guess the
brains behind this ruse figured, rightly, as it turns out, that nobody
would pay any attention to anything but Commission testimony. Screw the
FBI & the HSCA....
dcw
If "nothing fell on nobody" then you believe Williams, Jarman and Norman
were lying and part of your conspiracy theory? Mark
Let me peel away Norman & Jarman, who I believe were only roped into the
cover-up, *afterwards*. Yes, I believe Williams WAS part of the
conspiracy.
Right. Just the kinds of guys a sophisticated conspiracy would want on
their team. 3 young unskilled workers.
Anthony Marsh
2018-07-05 23:11:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
On Thursday, June 28, 2018 at 7:01:39 PM UTC-5, donald willis wrot
cut really like to say is--I can
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
cite you example after example of Mark Lane's "lies" (your description).
Can you tell me when Buglisoi lied on purpose? Mark
Yes, in his book, in the paragraph on Mrs. Markham. He wrote that she
testified that she saw the suspect cut acro+ss the lawn in front of the
Davis abode. She was consistent, though, in saying that the man took the
SIDEWALK right down to the intersection. And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
I will check that out. Do you have others? Mark
"Loose plaster and dirt fall from the ceiling onto Bonnie Ray Williams'
hair".
Bugiosi cites BRW's testimony, and so he did testify. But in the first
FBI interviews of both Jarman & Norman the debris was directed towards
Harold Norman's head. And I think when Norman was (much later)
interviewed by the HSCA, the debris was again all his. So it wasn't just
FBI confusion. The story was changed. Why? At the very least, Bugliosi
can't just take Williams' word for it, or for that matter just Norman's or
Jarman's.
One possible answer to this riddle: Nothing fell on nobody. It was just
another way to direct everyone's attention to the 6th floor. I guess the
brains behind this ruse figured, rightly, as it turns out, that nobody
would pay any attention to anything but Commission testimony. Screw the
FBI & the HSCA....
dcw
If "nothing fell on nobody" then you believe Williams, Jarman and Norman
were lying and part of your conspiracy theory? Mark
All silly. The acoustical evidence proves that 3 shots were fired from
that window. Someone was walking around up there and that made the dust
fall down on the people below.

Why do you think they were repairing the floors that day?
donald willis
2018-07-07 00:39:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
On Thursday, June 28, 2018 at 7:01:39 PM UTC-5, donald willis wrot
cut really like to say is--I can
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
cite you example after example of Mark Lane's "lies" (your description).
Can you tell me when Buglisoi lied on purpose? Mark
Yes, in his book, in the paragraph on Mrs. Markham. He wrote that she
testified that she saw the suspect cut acro+ss the lawn in front of the
Davis abode. She was consistent, though, in saying that the man took the
SIDEWALK right down to the intersection. And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
I will check that out. Do you have others? Mark
"Loose plaster and dirt fall from the ceiling onto Bonnie Ray Williams'
hair".
Bugiosi cites BRW's testimony, and so he did testify. But in the first
FBI interviews of both Jarman & Norman the debris was directed towards
Harold Norman's head. And I think when Norman was (much later)
interviewed by the HSCA, the debris was again all his. So it wasn't just
FBI confusion. The story was changed. Why? At the very least, Bugliosi
can't just take Williams' word for it, or for that matter just Norman's or
Jarman's.
One possible answer to this riddle: Nothing fell on nobody. It was just
another way to direct everyone's attention to the 6th floor. I guess the
brains behind this ruse figured, rightly, as it turns out, that nobody
would pay any attention to anything but Commission testimony. Screw the
FBI & the HSCA....
dcw
If "nothing fell on nobody" then you believe Williams, Jarman and Norman
were lying and part of your conspiracy theory? Mark
All silly. The acoustical evidence proves that 3 shots were fired from
that window. Someone was walking around up there and that made the dust
fall down on the people below.
Nice. But it was, first, exclusively Norman upon whom debris fell; then
it was exclusively Williams (in their testimonies); then, it was back to
Norman (in the HSCA recounting). It was never, in the same document, said
to have fallen on TWO of the three.

It falls to me to say it fell on none of them....

dcw
Anthony Marsh
2018-07-05 23:11:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
On Thursday, June 28, 2018 at 7:01:39 PM UTC-5, donald willis wrot
cut really like to say is--I can
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
cite you example after example of Mark Lane's "lies" (your description).
Can you tell me when Buglisoi lied on purpose? Mark
Yes, in his book, in the paragraph on Mrs. Markham. He wrote that she
testified that she saw the suspect cut acro+ss the lawn in front of the
Davis abode. She was consistent, though, in saying that the man took the
SIDEWALK right down to the intersection. And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
I will check that out. Do you have others? Mark
"Loose plaster and dirt fall from the ceiling onto Bonnie Ray Williams'
hair".
Bugiosi cites BRW's testimony, and so he did testify. But in the first
FBI interviews of both Jarman & Norman the debris was directed towards
Harold Norman's head. And I think when Norman was (much later)
interviewed by the HSCA, the debris was again all his. So it wasn't just
FBI confusion. The story was changed. Why? At the very least, Bugliosi
can't just take Williams' word for it, or for that matter just Norman's or
Jarman's.
One possible answer to this riddle: Nothing fell on nobody. It was just
another way to direct everyone's attention to the 6th floor. I guess the
brains behind this ruse figured, rightly, as it turns out, that nobody
would pay any attention to anything but Commission testimony. Screw the
FBI & the HSCA....
dcw
If "nothing fell on nobody" then you believe Williams, Jarman and Norman
were lying and part of your conspiracy theory? Mark
No, somebody else has the theory that they were the shooters.
donald willis
2018-07-04 01:41:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Donald, some questions: CUT ng that the man took the
SIDEWALK right down to the intersection. And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
I will check that out. Do you have others? Mark
"Roy Truly sees Baker coming & immediately understands that the young
motorcycle officer is looking for a way to the roof." (p69)

Yes, Truly testified to that effect. Now, unless Baker was craning his
head to look up to the top of the building as he ran in, I question
Truly's quasi-mystical insight here. Bugliosi does not, but that's the
way of LNers. I guess that's nice, though, adding a touch of fantasy (if
not comedy) to the assassination story.... But Truly's psychic leap makes
me wonder if Baker's goal was really getting up to the top, or was he
perhaps simply intent on checking the place out? Maybe he saw the weapon
and was targeting a particular floor?

At any rate, I question whether you could read the intent of a person who
is simply running into a building. Certainly, yes, Truly would want to
accompany Baker, whatever the latter's goal....


dcw
Mark
2018-07-04 19:30:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Donald, some questions: CUT ng that the man took the
SIDEWALK right down to the intersection. And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
I will check that out. Do you have others? Mark
"Roy Truly sees Baker coming & immediately understands that the young
motorcycle officer is looking for a way to the roof." (p69)
Yes, Truly testified to that effect. Now, unless Baker was craning his
head to look up to the top of the building as he ran in, I question
Truly's quasi-mystical insight here. Bugliosi does not, but that's the
way of LNers. I guess that's nice, though, adding a touch of fantasy (if
not comedy) to the assassination story.... But Truly's psychic leap makes
me wonder if Baker's goal was really getting up to the top, or was he
perhaps simply intent on checking the place out? Maybe he saw the weapon
and was targeting a particular floor?
But you do, and that's the way of you. It's not a way to solve a
murder. You could be right, and I could care less. It doesn't amount to a
hill of beans, let alone evidence of anything. Mark
donald willis
2018-07-04 01:49:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
On Wednesday, June 27, 2018 at 6:13: CUT hat I would really like to say is--I can
cite you example after example of Mark Lane's "lies" (your description).
Can you tell me when Buglisoi lied on purpose? Mark
Yes, in his book, in the paragraph on Mrs. Markham. He wrote that she
testified that she saw the suspect cut acro+ss the lawn in front of the
Davis abode. She was consistent, though, in saying that the man took the
SIDEWALK right down to the intersection. And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
I will check that out. Do you have others? Mark
Remember, you asked. Okay, so far they're not Bugliosi's lies. For
instance, here are two witnesses lying:

"[Norman, Jarman & Williams] run toward the west side of the building
where Jarman yanks a window open so they can see what's going on below."
(p70)

Jarman & Williams perpetrated this bit of inaccuracy. And the photo which
exposed this was not published until Trask's "Pictures of the Pain", in
1993--Moorman #3. It was taken about 12:27 on 11/22/63. In the
foreground is a motorcycle cop, a friend of Moorman's; in the background,
we can see the west end of the depository. The very end window facing
Elm--the one Jarman was supposed to have opened AFTER the shooting--is
already open BEFORE the shooting. It's not that odd that the two don't
recall that it was already open, but it is odd that both *remember* Jarman
opening it. And that the photo which exposed this error was unseen for
some 30 years.

It's mainly that latter point which makes me think there's something going
on. At least the Warren Report makes a pretty big to-do about the
5th-floor witnesses hieing to the SW corner of the floor at about the same
time that someone from the 6th floor would have been moving down the
stairs in the NW corner. Thus explaining why they did not run into or see
him....

And the photos taken in Dealey of the depository AFTER the shooting--all
available publicly from the get-go--show the window open: "proof" that the
three ran to that window and Jarman opened it. After '93: no proof, just
their word, and their testimony re the window calls their word into
question....

dcw
Mark
2018-07-04 19:31:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
On Wednesday, June 27, 2018 at 6:13: CUT hat I would really like to say is--I can
cite you example after example of Mark Lane's "lies" (your description).
Can you tell me when Buglisoi lied on purpose? Mark
Yes, in his book, in the paragraph on Mrs. Markham. He wrote that she
testified that she saw the suspect cut acro+ss the lawn in front of the
Davis abode. She was consistent, though, in saying that the man took the
SIDEWALK right down to the intersection. And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
I will check that out. Do you have others? Mark
Remember, you asked. Okay, so far they're not Bugliosi's lies. For
You're right, that what I asked for, not your disagreements with what
eye-witnesses believed what they saw. But, anyway, what reason would these
people have to lie on purpose? Are they involved in your conspiracy
theory?
Post by donald willis
"[Norman, Jarman & Williams] run toward the west side of the building
where Jarman yanks a window open so they can see what's going on below."
(p70)
Jarman & Williams perpetrated this bit of inaccuracy. And the photo which
exposed this was not published until Trask's "Pictures of the Pain", in
1993--Moorman #3. It was taken about 12:27 on 11/22/63. In the
foreground is a motorcycle cop, a friend of Moorman's; in the background,
we can see the west end of the depository. The very end window facing
Elm--the one Jarman was supposed to have opened AFTER the shooting--is
already open BEFORE the shooting. It's not that odd that the two don't
recall that it was already open, but it is odd that both *remember* Jarman
opening it. And that the photo which exposed this error was unseen for
some 30 years.
It's mainly that latter point which makes me think there's something going
on. At least the Warren Report makes a pretty big to-do about the
5th-floor witnesses hieing to the SW corner of the floor at about the same
time that someone from the 6th floor would have been moving down the
stairs in the NW corner. Thus explaining why they did not run into or see
him....
What do you think was going on?

Mark
donald willis
2018-07-05 23:30:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
On Wednesday, June 27, 2018 at 6:13: CUT hat I would really like to say is--I can
cite you example after example of Mark Lane's "lies" (your description).
Can you tell me when Buglisoi lied on purpose? Mark
Yes, in his book, in the paragraph on Mrs. Markham. He wrote that she
testified that she saw the suspect cut acro+ss the lawn in front of the
Davis abode. She was consistent, though, in saying that the man took the
SIDEWALK right down to the intersection. And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
I will check that out. Do you have others? Mark
Remember, you asked. Okay, so far they're not Bugliosi's lies. For
You're right, that what I asked for, not your disagreements with what
eye-witnesses believed what they saw. But, anyway, what reason would these
people have to lie on purpose? Are they involved in your conspiracy
theory?
Post by donald willis
"[Norman, Jarman & Williams] run toward the west side of the building
where Jarman yanks a window open so they can see what's going on below."
(p70)
Jarman & Williams perpetrated this bit of inaccuracy. And the photo which
exposed this was not published until Trask's "Pictures of the Pain", in
1993--Moorman #3. It was taken about 12:27 on 11/22/63. In the
foreground is a motorcycle cop, a friend of Moorman's; in the background,
we can see the west end of the depository. The very end window facing
Elm--the one Jarman was supposed to have opened AFTER the shooting--is
already open BEFORE the shooting. It's not that odd that the two don't
recall that it was already open, but it is odd that both *remember* Jarman
opening it. And that the photo which exposed this error was unseen for
some 30 years.
It's mainly that latter point which makes me think there's something going
on. At least the Warren Report makes a pretty big to-do about the
5th-floor witnesses hieing to the SW corner of the floor at about the same
time that someone from the 6th floor would have been moving down the
stairs in the NW corner. Thus explaining why they did not run into or see
him....
What do you think was going on?
Mark
The reason Williams did not see anyone nor run into anyone on the stairs
was, I believe [okay, John R. King], that there was no one coming down
from the 6th floor to see nor to run into....

dcw
bigdog
2018-07-05 02:56:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
On Wednesday, June 27, 2018 at 6:13: CUT hat I would really like to say is--I can
cite you example after example of Mark Lane's "lies" (your description).
Can you tell me when Buglisoi lied on purpose? Mark
Yes, in his book, in the paragraph on Mrs. Markham. He wrote that she
testified that she saw the suspect cut acro+ss the lawn in front of the
Davis abode. She was consistent, though, in saying that the man took the
SIDEWALK right down to the intersection. And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
I will check that out. Do you have others? Mark
Remember, you asked. Okay, so far they're not Bugliosi's lies. For
"[Norman, Jarman & Williams] run toward the west side of the building
where Jarman yanks a window open so they can see what's going on below."
(p70)
Jarman & Williams perpetrated this bit of inaccuracy. And the photo which
exposed this was not published until Trask's "Pictures of the Pain", in
1993--Moorman #3. It was taken about 12:27 on 11/22/63. In the
foreground is a motorcycle cop, a friend of Moorman's; in the background,
we can see the west end of the depository. The very end window facing
Elm--the one Jarman was supposed to have opened AFTER the shooting--is
already open BEFORE the shooting. It's not that odd that the two don't
recall that it was already open, but it is odd that both *remember* Jarman
opening it. And that the photo which exposed this error was unseen for
some 30 years.
Why do you assume the window they opened was on the south face. Why
couldn't it have been on the west face. Since the limo sped off
immediately following the last shot, the west window would be the most
likely one they would have opened if they want to see to the west where
the limo would have been entering the Stemmons freeway.
Post by donald willis
It's mainly that latter point which makes me think there's something going
on. At least the Warren Report makes a pretty big to-do about the
5th-floor witnesses hieing to the SW corner of the floor at about the same
time that someone from the 6th floor would have been moving down the
stairs in the NW corner. Thus explaining why they did not run into or see
him....
And the photos taken in Dealey of the depository AFTER the shooting--all
available publicly from the get-go--show the window open: "proof" that the
three ran to that window and Jarman opened it. After '93: no proof, just
their word, and their testimony re the window calls their word into
question....
It's amazing you try turn every apparent discrepancy into evidence of
something sinister.
donald willis
2018-07-05 23:30:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
On Wednesday, June 27, 2018 at 6:13: CUT hat I would really like to say is--I can
cite you example after example of Mark Lane's "lies" (your description).
Can you tell me when Buglisoi lied on purpose? Mark
Yes, in his book, in the paragraph on Mrs. Markham. He wrote that she
testified that she saw the suspect cut acro+ss the lawn in front of the
Davis abode. She was consistent, though, in saying that the man took the
SIDEWALK right down to the intersection. And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
I will check that out. Do you have others? Mark
Remember, you asked. Okay, so far they're not Bugliosi's lies. For
"[Norman, Jarman & Williams] run toward the west side of the building
where Jarman yanks a window open so they can see what's going on below."
(p70)
Jarman & Williams perpetrated this bit of inaccuracy. And the photo which
exposed this was not published until Trask's "Pictures of the Pain", in
1993--Moorman #3. It was taken about 12:27 on 11/22/63. In the
foreground is a motorcycle cop, a friend of Moorman's; in the background,
we can see the west end of the depository. The very end window facing
Elm--the one Jarman was supposed to have opened AFTER the shooting--is
already open BEFORE the shooting. It's not that odd that the two don't
recall that it was already open, but it is odd that both *remember* Jarman
opening it. And that the photo which exposed this error was unseen for
some 30 years.
Why do you assume the window they opened was on the south face.
A) Jarman did not open it. B) Because that was the window they were asking Williams & Jarman about.

Williams: "I think James Jarman raised this window."
Ball: "We will mark that window Y." (v3p177)

Now, check CE 487: The "Y" is by the furthest west window facing Elm (south face).


Why
Post by bigdog
couldn't it have been on the west face. Since the limo sped off
immediately following the last shot, the west window would be the most
likely one they would have opened if they want to see to the west where
the limo would have been entering the Stemmons freeway.
Good figuring, but wrong.
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
It's mainly that latter point which makes me think there's something going
on. At least the Warren Report makes a pretty big to-do about the
5th-floor witnesses hieing to the SW corner of the floor at about the same
time that someone from the 6th floor would have been moving down the
stairs in the NW corner. Thus explaining why they did not run into or see
him....
And the photos taken in Dealey of the depository AFTER the shooting--all
available publicly from the get-go--show the window open: "proof" that the
three ran to that window and Jarman opened it. After '93: no proof, just
their word, and their testimony re the window calls their word into
question....
It's amazing you try turn every apparent discrepancy into evidence of
something sinister.
Yes, a minor discrepancy. The Moorman was not seen for 30 years....

dcw
donald willis
2018-07-07 00:18:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
On Wednesday, June 27, 2018 at 6:13: CUT hat I would really like to say is--I can
cite you example after example of Mark Lane's "lies" (your description).
Can you tell me when Buglisoi lied on purpose? Mark
Yes, in his book, in the paragraph on Mrs. Markham. He wrote that she
testified that she saw the suspect cut acro+ss the lawn in front of the
Davis abode. She was consistent, though, in saying that the man took the
SIDEWALK right down to the intersection. And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
I will check that out. Do you have others? Mark
Remember, you asked. Okay, so far they're not Bugliosi's lies. For
"[Norman, Jarman & Williams] run toward the west side of the building
where Jarman yanks a window open so they can see what's going on below."
(p70)
Jarman & Williams perpetrated this bit of inaccuracy. And the photo which
exposed this was not published until Trask's "Pictures of the Pain", in
1993--Moorman #3. It was taken about 12:27 on 11/22/63. In the
foreground is a motorcycle cop, a friend of Moorman's; in the background,
we can see the west end of the depository. The very end window facing
Elm--the one Jarman was supposed to have opened AFTER the shooting--is
already open BEFORE the shooting. It's not that odd that the two don't
recall that it was already open, but it is odd that both *remember* Jarman
opening it. And that the photo which exposed this error was unseen for
some 30 years.
Why do you assume the window they opened was on the south face. Why
couldn't it have been on the west face.
A quick follow-up. Walt Cakebread suggested this about 10 years ago.
Well, you're only 10 years behind him....

Since the limo sped off
Post by bigdog
immediately following the last shot, the west window would be the most
likely one they would have opened if they want to see to the west where
the limo would have been entering the Stemmons freeway.
Post by donald willis
It's mainly that latter point which makes me think there's something going
on. At least the Warren Report makes a pretty big to-do about the
5th-floor witnesses hieing to the SW corner of the floor at about the same
time that someone from the 6th floor would have been moving down the
stairs in the NW corner. Thus explaining why they did not run into or see
him....
And the photos taken in Dealey of the depository AFTER the shooting--all
available publicly from the get-go--show the window open: "proof" that the
three ran to that window and Jarman opened it. After '93: no proof, just
their word, and their testimony re the window calls their word into
question....
It's amazing you try turn every apparent discrepancy into evidence of
something sinister.
Anthony Marsh
2018-07-05 23:14:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
On Wednesday, June 27, 2018 at 6:13: CUT hat I would really like to say is--I can
cite you example after example of Mark Lane's "lies" (your description).
Can you tell me when Buglisoi lied on purpose? Mark
Yes, in his book, in the paragraph on Mrs. Markham. He wrote that she
testified that she saw the suspect cut acro+ss the lawn in front of the
Davis abode. She was consistent, though, in saying that the man took the
SIDEWALK right down to the intersection. And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
I will check that out. Do you have others? Mark
Remember, you asked. Okay, so far they're not Bugliosi's lies. For
"[Norman, Jarman & Williams] run toward the west side of the building
where Jarman yanks a window open so they can see what's going on below."
(p70)
Jarman & Williams perpetrated this bit of inaccuracy. And the photo which
exposed this was not published until Trask's "Pictures of the Pain", in
1993--Moorman #3. It was taken about 12:27 on 11/22/63. In the
foreground is a motorcycle cop, a friend of Moorman's; in the background,
we can see the west end of the depository. The very end window facing
Elm--the one Jarman was supposed to have opened AFTER the shooting--is
already open BEFORE the shooting. It's not that odd that the two don't
recall that it was already open, but it is odd that both *remember* Jarman
opening it. And that the photo which exposed this error was unseen for
some 30 years.
It's mainly that latter point which makes me think there's something going
on. At least the Warren Report makes a pretty big to-do about the
5th-floor witnesses hieing to the SW corner of the floor at about the same
time that someone from the 6th floor would have been moving down the
stairs in the NW corner. Thus explaining why they did not run into or see
him....
And the photos taken in Dealey of the depository AFTER the shooting--all
available publicly from the get-go--show the window open: "proof" that the
three ran to that window and Jarman opened it. After '93: no proof, just
their word, and their testimony re the window calls their word into
question....
dcw
OK, do you have the photos showing the window closed before the shooting?
donald willis
2018-07-07 00:40:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
On Wednesday, June 27, 2018 at 6:13: CUT hat I would really like to say is--I can
cite you example after example of Mark Lane's "lies" (your description).
Can you tell me when Buglisoi lied on purpose? Mark
Yes, in his book, in the paragraph on Mrs. Markham. He wrote that she
testified that she saw the suspect cut acro+ss the lawn in front of the
Davis abode. She was consistent, though, in saying that the man took the
SIDEWALK right down to the intersection. And had a famous confrontation
with the man kitty korner to her! And yet Bugliosi lied. Or his
researchers lied.
Unimportant detail? No--the famous lost-and-found hulls were found on the
front lawn/bushes where the Davises said THEY saw the man. I realize that
Bugliosi wanted uniformity, but it's a lie to say that Markham agreed with
the sisters-in law on this. She did NOT back up their tossed-hulls
story.... X marks the spot where Bugliosi lied, if I may paraphrase
another constant poster here....
dcw
I will check that out. Do you have others? Mark
Remember, you asked. Okay, so far they're not Bugliosi's lies. For
"[Norman, Jarman & Williams] run toward the west side of the building
where Jarman yanks a window open so they can see what's going on below."
(p70)
Jarman & Williams perpetrated this bit of inaccuracy. And the photo which
exposed this was not published until Trask's "Pictures of the Pain", in
1993--Moorman #3. It was taken about 12:27 on 11/22/63. In the
foreground is a motorcycle cop, a friend of Moorman's; in the background,
we can see the west end of the depository. The very end window facing
Elm--the one Jarman was supposed to have opened AFTER the shooting--is
already open BEFORE the shooting. It's not that odd that the two don't
recall that it was already open, but it is odd that both *remember* Jarman
opening it. And that the photo which exposed this error was unseen for
some 30 years.
It's mainly that latter point which makes me think there's something going
on. At least the Warren Report makes a pretty big to-do about the
5th-floor witnesses hieing to the SW corner of the floor at about the same
time that someone from the 6th floor would have been moving down the
stairs in the NW corner. Thus explaining why they did not run into or see
him....
And the photos taken in Dealey of the depository AFTER the shooting--all
available publicly from the get-go--show the window open: "proof" that the
three ran to that window and Jarman opened it. After '93: no proof, just
their word, and their testimony re the window calls their word into
question....
dcw
OK, do you have the photos showing the window closed before the shooting?
I think you mean "open"--that was Moorman #3
donald willis
2018-06-29 00:02:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Wow! The 3 man Hit Team exposed!
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Cite please.
It was part of the 50th anniversary coverage of the assassination. I
don't have it on tape....
So you are relying on a 5 year old memory. Any chance your memory of it
might be just a wee bit fuzzy?
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?
Was it there in the first place?
Yes two witnesses: Marina and the blanket.
I double checked that. Seems on the up & up, yes.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported
that it was found "on a lower floor".
What ATF man?
I believe his name was Frank Ellsworth. It was: "Mr. Ellsworth & another
officer from ATF were also there." -- Sims & Boyd report p3 (Sims Exh. A).
My main reference, though, is from a book, which I can't lay my hands on
right now.... I think the author's name was Dick Russell.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police
radio outside) at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing
of the (noisy) discovery of the rifle--at about that same time--
on the floor which they were on!
Ahaa! The plot thickens!!!
Clever way of dismissing unwanted witness evidence!
What evidence?
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Not used by any sniper? Where did the real shots come from?
Possibly the 5th floor. Marsh says one came from the Gassy Knoll....
So you reject the location where a number of witnesses placed the gunman,
where shells were found, which was on the same floor where the rifle was
found, where the fingerprints of the owner were found. Yet you are willing
to entertain other locations for which there is no evidence whatsoever of
a shooter.
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
Do you doubt he saw a man in the window? Several witness saw a man
or rifle in the same window.
Yes, the same wide open window!
How many inches does the window have to be open to qualify as wide open?
I thought I was talking to Claviger. Hence, my reference a moment ago to
bigdog....
Post by bigdog
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
Amos Euins never said that. A witness claims he overheard Euins say that.
Never say never again. Yes, reporter Kent Biffle overheard Euins say
exactly that. But another reporter, James Underwood, actually talked to
"Euins said, 'It was a colored man.' I said, 'Are you sure it was a
colored man?' He said, 'Yes, sir'." (4/1/64 Commission testimony of
Underwood)
So, you lose, and if you were fair you'd accept, now, that Euins did say
that, no matter what he said after debriefing. But you won't. You're a
CT, and are unable to accept contradictory information....
So what if Euins said that. He was the only one of the witnesses who said
the shooter on the 6th floor was black. Why would you go with the outlier?
Post by donald willis
Commission counsel took the coward's way out and did not ask Euins about
the newspaper interviews or the phrase "colored man".
Post by claviger
Euins denies he ever said anything like that.
I probably would have knuckled under, too, if I had some unwanted
information and my family was threatened, as Mark Lane wrote re Euins, in
Rush to Judgment. (I know, I know, and yet some of what he said about
Mrs. Markham was later confirmed--see "With Malice")
Oh, Mark Lane said that. There's a reliable source.
Post by donald willis
Read his official signed
Post by claviger
same day statement.
http://alt.assassination.jfk.narkive.com/Ke9RNuaD/amos-euins-sworn-statement-and-testimony
Read Underwood's testimony. And Biffle's report, early '64.
So we have conflicting accounts or what Euins said. You opt for the
hearsay account rather than what Euins stated in his affidavit.
claviger
2018-06-28 01:38:21 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police
radio outside) at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing
of the (noisy) discovery of the rifle--at about that same time--
on the floor which they were on!
What is your point?
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Not used by any sniper? Where did the real shots come from?
Possibly the 5th floor.
Apparently you're trying to make a case that 3 black employees
on the 5th floor of the TSBD shot the President and framed LHO.
Tell us more about this situation. Who hired them to do this hit?
Post by donald willis
Marsh says one came from the Gassy Knoll....
Marsh was not a witness.
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
Do you doubt he saw a man in the window? Several witness saw a man
or rifle in the same window.
Yes, the same wide open window!
Several witnesses saw a rifle in the 6th floor window.
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
Amos Euins never said that. A witness claims he overheard Euins say that.
Never say never again. Yes, reporter Kent Biffle overheard Euins say
exactly that. But another reporter, James Underwood, actually talked to
"Euins said, 'It was a colored man.' I said, 'Are you sure it was a
colored man?' He said, 'Yes, sir'." (4/1/64 Commission testimony of
Underwood)
So, you lose, and if you were fair you'd accept, now, that Euins did say
that, no matter what he said after debriefing. But you won't. You're a
CT, and are unable to accept contradictory information....
Commission counsel took the coward's way out and did not ask Euins
about the newspaper interviews or the phrase "colored man".
Euins never claimed he saw a black man with a rifle in any written
statement or Q&A before the Warren Commission. Even if he did tell a
reporter something different, it is easy to see how he might be confused
since a black employee was in a wide open 5th floor window directly below
the same 6th floor window where several witnesses saw a man firing a
rifle.
donald willis
2018-06-29 00:49:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police
radio outside) at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing
of the (noisy) discovery of the rifle--at about that same time--
on the floor which they were on!
What is your point?
It the rifle was discovered (noisily) on the 6th floor, the two detectives
would have heard that.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Not used by any sniper? Where did the real shots come from?
Possibly the 5th floor.
Apparently you're trying to make a case that 3 black employees
on the 5th floor of the TSBD shot the President and framed LHO.
Tell us more about this situation. Who hired them to do this hit?
Norman & Jarman were not there. See Jarman's 11/23 affidavit, for
instance. And johnny come lately Norman did not report in until the next
Tuesday! The two were injected into the 5th floor after the fact....
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Marsh says one came from the Gassy Knoll....
Marsh was not a witness.
But the gas gave it away
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
Do you doubt he saw a man in the window? Several witness saw a man
or rifle in the same window.
Yes, the same wide open window!
Several witnesses saw a rifle in the 6th floor window.
See below.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
Amos Euins never said that. A witness claims he overheard Euins say that.
Never say never again. Yes, reporter Kent Biffle overheard Euins say
exactly that. But another reporter, James Underwood, actually talked to
"Euins said, 'It was a colored man.' I said, 'Are you sure it was a
colored man?' He said, 'Yes, sir'." (4/1/64 Commission testimony of
Underwood)
So, you lose, and if you were fair you'd accept, now, that Euins did say
that, no matter what he said after debriefing. But you won't. You're a
CT, and are unable to accept contradictory information....
Commission counsel took the coward's way out and did not ask Euins
about the newspaper interviews or the phrase "colored man".
Euins never claimed he saw a black man with a rifle in any written
statement or Q&A before the Warren Commission. Even if he did tell a
reporter something different, it is easy to see how he might be confused
since a black employee was in a wide open 5th floor window directly below
the same 6th floor window where several witnesses saw a man firing a
rifle.
That confusion, however--which I agree that it was--eliminates Euins as a
witness to a 6th-floor shooter.

And as I've said, it's hardly conclusive WHERE "several witnesses" saw
someone shooting. And I believe that only TWO witnesses said they saw
actual shooting--Euins and Brennan. (Or did Worrell also say he saw?) And
Brennan testified that at the time of the shooting, the window from which
the shooting came was open just like the windows on the fifth floor!

dcw
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-29 21:09:57 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police
radio outside) at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing
of the (noisy) discovery of the rifle--at about that same time--
on the floor which they were on!
What is your point?
It the rifle was discovered (noisily) on the 6th floor, the two detectives
would have heard that.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Not used by any sniper? Where did the real shots come from?
Possibly the 5th floor.
Apparently you're trying to make a case that 3 black employees
on the 5th floor of the TSBD shot the President and framed LHO.
Tell us more about this situation. Who hired them to do this hit?
Norman & Jarman were not there. See Jarman's 11/23 affidavit, for
instance. And johnny come lately Norman did not report in until the next
Tuesday! The two were injected into the 5th floor after the fact....
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Marsh says one came from the Gassy Knoll....
Marsh was not a witness.
But the gas gave it away
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
Do you doubt he saw a man in the window? Several witness saw a man
or rifle in the same window.
Yes, the same wide open window!
Several witnesses saw a rifle in the 6th floor window.
See below.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
Amos Euins never said that. A witness claims he overheard Euins say that.
Never say never again. Yes, reporter Kent Biffle overheard Euins say
exactly that. But another reporter, James Underwood, actually talked to
"Euins said, 'It was a colored man.' I said, 'Are you sure it was a
colored man?' He said, 'Yes, sir'." (4/1/64 Commission testimony of
Underwood)
So, you lose, and if you were fair you'd accept, now, that Euins did say
that, no matter what he said after debriefing. But you won't. You're a
CT, and are unable to accept contradictory information....
Commission counsel took the coward's way out and did not ask Euins
about the newspaper interviews or the phrase "colored man".
Euins never claimed he saw a black man with a rifle in any written
statement or Q&A before the Warren Commission. Even if he did tell a
reporter something different, it is easy to see how he might be confused
since a black employee was in a wide open 5th floor window directly below
the same 6th floor window where several witnesses saw a man firing a
rifle.
That confusion, however--which I agree that it was--eliminates Euins as a
witness to a 6th-floor shooter.
Unless that shooter was a black man.
Post by donald willis
And as I've said, it's hardly conclusive WHERE "several witnesses" saw
someone shooting. And I believe that only TWO witnesses said they saw
actual shooting--Euins and Brennan. (Or did Worrell also say he saw?) And
Brennan testified that at the time of the shooting, the window from which
the shooting came was open just like the windows on the fifth floor!
dcw
donald willis
2018-07-01 00:28:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police
radio outside) at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing
of the (noisy) discovery of the rifle--at about that same time--
on the floor which they were on!
What is your point?
It the rifle was discovered (noisily) on the 6th floor, the two detectives
would have heard that.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Not used by any sniper? Where did the real shots come from?
Possibly the 5th floor.
Apparently you're trying to make a case that 3 black employees
on the 5th floor of the TSBD shot the President and framed LHO.
Tell us more about this situation. Who hired them to do this hit?
Norman & Jarman were not there. See Jarman's 11/23 affidavit, for
instance. And johnny come lately Norman did not report in until the next
Tuesday! The two were injected into the 5th floor after the fact....
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Marsh says one came from the Gassy Knoll....
Marsh was not a witness.
But the gas gave it away
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
Do you doubt he saw a man in the window? Several witness saw a man
or rifle in the same window.
Yes, the same wide open window!
Several witnesses saw a rifle in the 6th floor window.
See below.
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
Amos Euins never said that. A witness claims he overheard Euins say that.
Never say never again. Yes, reporter Kent Biffle overheard Euins say
exactly that. But another reporter, James Underwood, actually talked to
"Euins said, 'It was a colored man.' I said, 'Are you sure it was a
colored man?' He said, 'Yes, sir'." (4/1/64 Commission testimony of
Underwood)
So, you lose, and if you were fair you'd accept, now, that Euins did say
that, no matter what he said after debriefing. But you won't. You're a
CT, and are unable to accept contradictory information....
Commission counsel took the coward's way out and did not ask Euins
about the newspaper interviews or the phrase "colored man".
Euins never claimed he saw a black man with a rifle in any written
statement or Q&A before the Warren Commission. Even if he did tell a
reporter something different, it is easy to see how he might be confused
since a black employee was in a wide open 5th floor window directly below
the same 6th floor window where several witnesses saw a man firing a
rifle.
That confusion, however--which I agree that it was--eliminates Euins as a
witness to a 6th-floor shooter.
Unless that shooter was a black man.
Euins caved on "colored"; I'm guessing he also caved on "fifth floor",
which is what Deputy Sheriff Lewis heard Euins say, apparently BEFORE he
did his affidavit. If you like, I'll quote & cite....

dcw
Mark
2018-06-28 02:01:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Wow! The 3 man Hit Team exposed!
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Cite please.
It was part of the 50th anniversary coverage of the assassination. I
don't have it on tape....
That would certainly be interesting news, and I'd think other CTs would
have jumped all over it. I can't find any such thing online. I'm still
looking. Mark
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-29 16:09:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark
Post by donald willis
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Wow! The 3 man Hit Team exposed!
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Cite please.
It was part of the 50th anniversary coverage of the assassination. I
don't have it on tape....
That would certainly be interesting news, and I'd think other CTs would
have jumped all over it. I can't find any such thing online. I'm still
looking. Mark
WTF are you talking about? Make yourself clear.
Don't just make up crap from your imagination.
Frazier said that Oswald took a package that morning.
Oswald said it was the curtain rods.
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-27 15:03:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
1) Did Oswald have access to the TSBD's 6th floor?
2) Did he watch the motorcade with any of his fellow employees?
Neither he nor Jack Dougherty nor Danny Arce watched with any fellow
employees.
Wow! The 3 man Hit Team exposed!
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
4) Did he go out to Mrs. Paine's home on Thursday instead of his usual
Friday?
5) Did he take some sort of package to work the next day?
Only one witness to that, and he later recanted.
Cite please.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
6) Was his rifle gone from Mrs. Paine's garage the next day?
Was it there in the first place?
Yes two witnesses: Marina and the blanket.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
8) Was his rifle found on the 6th floor?
The ATF man in the building after the shooting reported
that it was found "on a lower floor".
What ATF man?
Post by donald willis
And the homicide detectives in charge of watching the
"nest" reported hearing of the Tippit shooting (on a police
radio outside) at 1:20, but most funnily did NOT report hearing
of the (noisy) discovery of the rifle--at about that same time--
on the floor which they were on!
Ahaa! The plot thickens!!!
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
9) Was a sniper's nest found on the 6th floor?
A mock-up of a "sniper's nest" was found, but was not used.
Not used by any sniper? Where did the real shots come from?
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
10) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a man at the window where the sniper's
nest was later found?
Some saw a man at a wide open window. In fact, one person, Ron Fischer,
testified that he could not have seen so much of the man if the window had
NOT been wide open! Play with THAT for a while....
Do you doubt he saw a man in the window? Several witness saw a man
or rifle in the same window.
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
11) Did anyone in Dealey Plaza see a rifle barrel or a "pipe" extending
out of the window where the sniper's nest was later found?
Sounds like Amos Euins, who initially--before debriefing--told reporters
that that "pipe" was held by a "colored man". But LNers seem to prefer
revised versions of witnessing....
Amos Euins never said that. A witness claims he overheard Euins say that.
YOU are in no position to claim what Euins said. You weren't there, were
you?
Post by claviger
Euins denies he ever said anything like that. Read his official signed
No, he didn't.
Post by claviger
same day statement.
http://alt.assassination.jfk.narkive.com/Ke9RNuaD/amos-euins-sworn-statement-and-testimony
Post by donald willis
Post by Mark
I could go one with the ballistic and medical evidence. I just wonder how
you square your Posts on here with the, IMO, overwhelming circumstantial
evidence of Oswald's guilt. Mark
bigdog's phrase is "mountain of evidence". There's also a mountain of
evidence now AGAINST Oswald's guilt....
dcw
More like a cow patty size "mountain".
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