Discussion:
Question?
(too old to reply)
Martha
2003-09-29 13:05:53 UTC
Permalink
Anyone familiar with the name Col. J. D. Wilmeth?

Martha
unknown
2003-09-30 00:53:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martha
Anyone familiar with the name Col. J. D. Wilmeth?
Martha
Hi Martha,
He is mentioned in Michael Paine's testimony:

Mr. LIEBELER - Do you know Col. J. D. Wilmeth?
Mr. PAINE - No; I don't know him. A colleague at work lives nearby who
shares a well with him and keeps it repaired.
Mr. LIEBELER - Who does?
Mr. PAINE - Clark Benham, another colleague at work, uses the water
from Colonel Wilmeth's well and has to keep the well operating so I
hear stories about Mr. Wilmeth and he lives with his old, ancient
mother. I haven't met him myself, I don't believe.
Mr. LIEBELER - You mentioned that---did you mention that he called you
at your office at one time?
Mr. PAINE - Yes; I think he has, yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Would you tell us the circumstances of that event?
Mr. PAINE - Well, he wanted to see Marina, I think, he wanted to hear,
I think he said he wanted to hear the native tongue spoken or spoken
by a native. And so he was quite eager to meet both Ruth and Marina
and called me to ask how and when and what not. So, he may have called
me more than once on that subject.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you have any idea why he called you at work? In
order to contact these women?
Mr. PAINE - It seemed very appropriate. Maybe Clark, Clark, of course,
sees him quite frequently, and maybe Clark told him that Marina was
living with us. I cannot--I could be clued in. I remember at the time
there was a reason for it. I mean it seemed appropriate, it wasn't out
of the blue, but I can't--unless it was that I had been talking about
Marina with Clark and then Clark told it to him.
Mr. LIEBELER - You never have met Colonel Wilmeth?
Mr. PAINE - I don't believe so.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did Ruth ever tell you that Colonel Wilmeth had come to
call on her and Marina?
Mr. PAINE - Yes; that call or one or two calls he made to the lab to
me was asking me if I would make it possible for him to meet them and
so I told Ruth, and either Ruth called or I told her that he was, he
would like to come on the weekend or something or he would call, I
forget, but anyway I was a go-between to help in a polite way to meet
Ruth.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did Ruth tell you about the meeting when he came?
Mr. PAINE - She did; yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Tell us about it.
Mr. PAINE - I think she said she had a good time, I don't remember.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you remember any of the details of what she said?
Mr. PAINE - I don't remember the details; no.


Peter Fokes





http://www.toronto.hm/
James K. Olmstead
2003-09-30 01:34:18 UTC
Permalink
Now did they ask the same questions of Ruth?

Seems they had some interest is Wilmeth....so it would seem that they
would....but why the interest?

I haven't had the time to look yet......but it seems this issue was raised
in the past.

jko
Post by unknown
Post by Martha
Anyone familiar with the name Col. J. D. Wilmeth?
Martha
Hi Martha,
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you know Col. J. D. Wilmeth?
Mr. PAINE - No; I don't know him. A colleague at work lives nearby who
shares a well with him and keeps it repaired.
Mr. LIEBELER - Who does?
Mr. PAINE - Clark Benham, another colleague at work, uses the water
from Colonel Wilmeth's well and has to keep the well operating so I
hear stories about Mr. Wilmeth and he lives with his old, ancient
mother. I haven't met him myself, I don't believe.
Mr. LIEBELER - You mentioned that---did you mention that he called you
at your office at one time?
Mr. PAINE - Yes; I think he has, yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Would you tell us the circumstances of that event?
Mr. PAINE - Well, he wanted to see Marina, I think, he wanted to hear,
I think he said he wanted to hear the native tongue spoken or spoken
by a native. And so he was quite eager to meet both Ruth and Marina
and called me to ask how and when and what not. So, he may have called
me more than once on that subject.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you have any idea why he called you at work? In
order to contact these women?
Mr. PAINE - It seemed very appropriate. Maybe Clark, Clark, of course,
sees him quite frequently, and maybe Clark told him that Marina was
living with us. I cannot--I could be clued in. I remember at the time
there was a reason for it. I mean it seemed appropriate, it wasn't out
of the blue, but I can't--unless it was that I had been talking about
Marina with Clark and then Clark told it to him.
Mr. LIEBELER - You never have met Colonel Wilmeth?
Mr. PAINE - I don't believe so.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did Ruth ever tell you that Colonel Wilmeth had come to
call on her and Marina?
Mr. PAINE - Yes; that call or one or two calls he made to the lab to
me was asking me if I would make it possible for him to meet them and
so I told Ruth, and either Ruth called or I told her that he was, he
would like to come on the weekend or something or he would call, I
forget, but anyway I was a go-between to help in a polite way to meet
Ruth.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did Ruth tell you about the meeting when he came?
Mr. PAINE - She did; yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Tell us about it.
Mr. PAINE - I think she said she had a good time, I don't remember.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you remember any of the details of what she said?
Mr. PAINE - I don't remember the details; no.
Peter Fokes
http://www.toronto.hm/
unknown
2003-09-30 01:01:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martha
Anyone familiar with the name Col. J. D. Wilmeth?
Martha
And this portion of Ruth Paine's testimony:


Mr. Jenner.
Do you recall an incident in which there was a telephone call by Col.
J. D. Wilmeth to your home, in which he spoke with Marina?
Mrs. Paine.
Yes; I do.
Mr. Jenner.
Would you tell us about that?
Mrs. Paine.
I would say this was a week or less before the assassination. He
called and asked--he called from Arlington, Tex., which is between
Fort Worth and Dallas, and asked if he could come over some time
to----

Mr. Jenner.
Would that be a nontoll call?
Mrs. Paine.
That was a toll call.
Mr. Jenner.
All right.
Mrs. Paine.
To talk with Marina, that he had heard she was living at my house, and
was interested in speaking with somebody who spoke natively.
Mr. Jenner.
Did he speak with you on that occasion?
Mrs. Paine.
Yes.
Mr. Jenner.
You are recounting, then, your conversation with him, and in turn his
conversation with her, as she might have reported it?
Mrs. Paine.
Yes.
Mr. Jenner.
Have you completed all you wish to say about that incident?
Mrs. Paine.
Yes. Are you going to ask me if he came?
Mr. Jenner.
I put the question as to what you wished to say. Have you completed
your full recollection of the incident?
Mrs. Paine.
That is my recollection of the phone call. He then did come.
Mr. Jenner.
And when did he come?
Mrs. Paine.
My recollection is that he asked to come--that he worked at Arlington
State College on Tuesdays and Thursdays; that he called us on Tuesday
and asked to come Thursday, and we said Thursday was not the best
time, and he and we agreed upon the following Tuesday.
My best judgment is that he actually came then on the 19th of
November.
Mr. Jenner.
All right. And how long did he stay?
Mrs. Paine.
Oh, perhaps an hour. And I cannot even recall exactly what time,
except I think it was right in the middle of when we should have been
making dinner.
Mr. Jenner.
Did he visit with both you and Marina?
Mrs. Paine.
Yes; he did.
Mr. Jenner.
And were arrangements made for his return on another occasion?
Mrs. Paine.
I cannot recall that we made a specific date, but we certainly planned
to get together again.
Mr. Jenner.
And was this strictly a social call?
Mrs. Paine.
Yes; it was. An interest in the language motivated his coming. He is a
teacher of Russian at Arlington State College.
Mr. Jenner.
Let's see. Lee Oswald was not home on that occasion.
Mrs. Paine.
No; he was not.
Mr. Jenner.
I mean he was not in Irving on that occasion.
Mrs. Paine.
No; he was not.


Peter Fokes



http://www.toronto.hm/
James K. Olmstead
2003-09-30 01:35:08 UTC
Permalink
Boy Pete i ask a question and before it's posted you answer....
psychic mods.....

jko
Post by unknown
Post by Martha
Anyone familiar with the name Col. J. D. Wilmeth?
Martha
Mr. Jenner.
Do you recall an incident in which there was a telephone call by Col.
J. D. Wilmeth to your home, in which he spoke with Marina?
Mrs. Paine.
Yes; I do.
Mr. Jenner.
Would you tell us about that?
Mrs. Paine.
I would say this was a week or less before the assassination. He
called and asked--he called from Arlington, Tex., which is between
Fort Worth and Dallas, and asked if he could come over some time
to----
Mr. Jenner.
Would that be a nontoll call?
Mrs. Paine.
That was a toll call.
Mr. Jenner.
All right.
Mrs. Paine.
To talk with Marina, that he had heard she was living at my house, and
was interested in speaking with somebody who spoke natively.
Mr. Jenner.
Did he speak with you on that occasion?
Mrs. Paine.
Yes.
Mr. Jenner.
You are recounting, then, your conversation with him, and in turn his
conversation with her, as she might have reported it?
Mrs. Paine.
Yes.
Mr. Jenner.
Have you completed all you wish to say about that incident?
Mrs. Paine.
Yes. Are you going to ask me if he came?
Mr. Jenner.
I put the question as to what you wished to say. Have you completed
your full recollection of the incident?
Mrs. Paine.
That is my recollection of the phone call. He then did come.
Mr. Jenner.
And when did he come?
Mrs. Paine.
My recollection is that he asked to come--that he worked at Arlington
State College on Tuesdays and Thursdays; that he called us on Tuesday
and asked to come Thursday, and we said Thursday was not the best
time, and he and we agreed upon the following Tuesday.
My best judgment is that he actually came then on the 19th of
November.
Mr. Jenner.
All right. And how long did he stay?
Mrs. Paine.
Oh, perhaps an hour. And I cannot even recall exactly what time,
except I think it was right in the middle of when we should have been
making dinner.
Mr. Jenner.
Did he visit with both you and Marina?
Mrs. Paine.
Yes; he did.
Mr. Jenner.
And were arrangements made for his return on another occasion?
Mrs. Paine.
I cannot recall that we made a specific date, but we certainly planned
to get together again.
Mr. Jenner.
And was this strictly a social call?
Mrs. Paine.
Yes; it was. An interest in the language motivated his coming. He is a
teacher of Russian at Arlington State College.
Mr. Jenner.
Let's see. Lee Oswald was not home on that occasion.
Mrs. Paine.
No; he was not.
Mr. Jenner.
I mean he was not in Irving on that occasion.
Mrs. Paine.
No; he was not.
Peter Fokes
http://www.toronto.hm/
unknown
2003-09-30 01:42:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by James K. Olmstead
Boy Pete i ask a question and before it's posted you answer....
psychic mods.....
jko
Hey. Pure coincidence. Did you see my post about the WWII Working
Group. It references Wilmeth 3 times. I included one passage.

See my previous post in this thread.

Peter Fokes



http://www.toronto.hm/
James K. Olmstead
2003-09-30 02:31:47 UTC
Permalink
Yes.....I saw the post.....most of my WWII stuff is in boxes to save space
in the office.....but the few OSS books upstairs do not mention him. My
Gehlen stuff must be in those basement boxes.

The whole "meeting" seems odd to me. I've read that there was a Russian
community.....in the area...so wanting to here the "native language"
spoken by a native.....seems abit odd, since there seems to be plenty of
Russians in the Dallas area

A teacher of the Russian language...needs to hear the native tongue? Was
he on his deathbed....or something?

odd so close to the assassination.

jko
Post by unknown
Post by James K. Olmstead
Boy Pete i ask a question and before it's posted you answer....
psychic mods.....
jko
Hey. Pure coincidence. Did you see my post about the WWII Working
Group. It references Wilmeth 3 times. I included one passage.
See my previous post in this thread.
Peter Fokes
http://www.toronto.hm/
James K. Olmstead
2003-09-30 02:32:35 UTC
Permalink
As a side note to this thread

The issue of POW's play a major role in several areas. Lee's enlistment
for one and Soviet POW's....including captured Americans from plane
crashes in the USSR during various overflights. Several were in the USSR
during Lee's defection.

Capt Bruce Olmstead, was released by the Soviets the day JFK held his
first press conf as President. It was a token jester by Niki.

Gen Olmstead, the father of the Signal Corps during WWII organized a very
delicate mission at the close of the war. He got permission to send
officers to every known Jappanese POW camp to inform the Camp Cmdt that
the POW's must not be killed if the war is lost.

just some side notes.

jko (Olmstead)
Post by unknown
Post by James K. Olmstead
Boy Pete i ask a question and before it's posted you answer....
psychic mods.....
jko
Hey. Pure coincidence. Did you see my post about the WWII Working
Group. It references Wilmeth 3 times. I included one passage.
See my previous post in this thread.
Peter Fokes
http://www.toronto.hm/
unknown
2003-09-30 01:30:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martha
Anyone familiar with the name Col. J. D. Wilmeth?
Martha
There is also a mention of a J.D. wimeth in a pdf document entitled:

1992-1994 FINDINGS OF THE WWII WORKING GROUP

The paper discusses how American POWs came into Soviet military
custody at the end of WWII, and describes what happened to these men.


http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/special/96_compre_ww2prta.pdf


There are three references to Col. J.D. Wimeth in this document.


Here's one:


"Although Allied authorities, at SHAEF, the War Office in London, the
War Department in Washington, and the military mission in Moscow
actively gathered information about these camps, the Soviet Army
apparently had little prior knowledge about the location, numbers, and
conditions of the Allied POWs they would overrun. An American officer
who served as a liaison with the Soviets in Poland declared frankly,
"...the Russian front had no knowledge of the camps prior to their
capture." 23

Footnote 23: Lt. Col James D. Wilmeth "Report on a Visit to Lublin,
Poland 27 Feb-28 March, 1945" USMMM Subject Files, "POWs-Personnel
Evacuated Through Odessa," box 22 entry 309, RG334, NA

There are two other footnotes that refer to Lt. Col JD Wilmeth in this
document.

Peter Fokes
http://www.toronto.hm/
Martha
2003-09-30 02:57:58 UTC
Permalink
Hi guys

I have found the following:

DOB: 10/30/10

West Point, 1934

Duty in Panama as 2nd lt. late 30's.

Military mission to Moscow - 44-45. Military Intelligence?

Allied Control Command, Hungary, 1946.

In charge of POW exchange at Odessa - dealt with Russians.

Retired in 1960.

Russian instructor at University of Texas at time of visit to Marina via
Michael Paine's friendship with a co-worker.

Martha
Post by unknown
Post by Martha
Anyone familiar with the name Col. J. D. Wilmeth?
Martha
1992-1994 FINDINGS OF THE WWII WORKING GROUP
The paper discusses how American POWs came into Soviet military
custody at the end of WWII, and describes what happened to these men.
http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/special/96_compre_ww2prta.pdf
There are three references to Col. J.D. Wimeth in this document.
"Although Allied authorities, at SHAEF, the War Office in London, the
War Department in Washington, and the military mission in Moscow
actively gathered information about these camps, the Soviet Army
apparently had little prior knowledge about the location, numbers, and
conditions of the Allied POWs they would overrun. An American officer
who served as a liaison with the Soviets in Poland declared frankly,
"...the Russian front had no knowledge of the camps prior to their
capture." 23
Footnote 23: Lt. Col James D. Wilmeth "Report on a Visit to Lublin,
Poland 27 Feb-28 March, 1945" USMMM Subject Files, "POWs-Personnel
Evacuated Through Odessa," box 22 entry 309, RG334, NA
There are two other footnotes that refer to Lt. Col JD Wilmeth in this
document.
Peter Fokes
http://www.toronto.hm/
Deb Bert
2003-09-30 04:00:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martha
Anyone familiar with the name Col. J. D. Wilmeth?
Martha
From:

http://www.aiipowmia.com/wwii/wwiiwkgrp.html

 
Findings of the World War II Working Group
1992-1996 Findings Of The WWII Working Group

INTRODUCTION: THE WORLD WAR II WORKING GROUP

The Co-chairmen of the Joint US-Russia Commission on POW/MIAs, Ambassador
Malcolm Toon and General Dmitrii Volkogonov, established the World War II
Working Group in December 1994 under the Co-chairmanship of Dr. Trudy
Huskamp Peterson, Acting Archivist of the United States, for the US side,
and Colonel Sergei Osipov, Assistant to General Volkogonov and the
Executive Secretary of the Russian side. Ambassador Toon and General
Volkogonov recognized the need to discuss further World War II issues
prior to the 50th Anniversary of Victory in Europe Day in May 1995 and
created the World War II Working Group to examine four areas of interest
to the American side and one issue of great concern to the Russian side:

Determine why and how US prisoners of war came into Soviet military
custody at the end of World War II;

Describe what happened to these POWs while in the hands of the Soviets;

Describe the process by which the POWs returned to US military control;

Determine whether thousands (as alleged in some accounts) or even any live
American prisoners of war were not returned by the Soviets;

Reach a final Soviet casualty accounting for World War II, including the
numbers of Soviet military personnel and displaced persons who did not
return to Soviet territory following the war.

...
---->Lt.Col. James D. Wilmeth, "Report on a Visit to Lublin, Poland, 27
February - 28 March 1945," USMMM Subject File, "POWs-Personnel Evacuated
Through Odessa," box 22, entry 309, RG 334, NA.

...


TK Nenninger telecon with Brooks E. Kleber (former POW at Oflag 64), 26
July 1995. EX Report No. 576, March 29, 1945, "LtCol. Frederick W. Drury
(Oflag 64)," EX Report No. 677, 1 July 1945, "2ndLt. Richard D. Englehart
(Oflag 64)," CPM Branch, WDGS MIS-X, "Interrogations," Subject File,
Prisoner of War Information Branch, box 2006, Entry 460A, RG 389, NA.
Military Intelligence Service, WDGS, 1 November 1945, "American Prisoners
of War in Germany", pp. 35-43 and pp. 93-99, Subject File POW Information
Bureau, box 2197, entry 460A, RG 389. MIS-X, WDGS, "Statements of Evacuees
from German P/W Camps Reporting Experiences in Russia," 3 April 1945, ETO
MIS-X Decimal Correspondence, "383.6-POWs(Allied)", box 9, RG 332.
Statement of Colonel F.W. Drury, enclosed with TAG to USMMM, 3 April 1945;

----> LtCol J.D. Wilmeth, "Report of 3 POWs at ESCOM," 21 February 1945,
USMMM Subject File, "POWs," box 23, entry 309, RG 334. Capt. F.C. Fitchen,
"Report of 8 Officers from Oflag 64 at Poltava," March 6, 1945, USMMM
Subject File, "POWs," box 22, entry 309, RG 334, NA. Published accounts of
the varied experiences of those liberated from Oflag 64 include Howard
Randolph Holder, Escape to Russia (Athens, Georgia: Iberian Publishing
Co., 1994), and Clarence R. Meltesen, Roads to Liberation From Oflag 64
(San Francisco: Oflag 64 Press, 1990).

...


Military Intelligence Service, WDGS, 1 November 1945, "American Prisoners
of War in Germany", pp. 54-63, Subject File POW Information Bureau, box
2197, entry 460A, RG 389, NA. Lt.Col. James D. Wilmeth, "Report on a Visit
to Lublin, Poland, 27 February - 28 March 1945," USMMM Subject File,
"POWs-Personnel Evacuated Through Odessa," box 22, entry 309, RG 334, NA.
EX Report No. 592, 20 April 1945, "Pfc. Billy H. Prichard (Stalag II-B),"
EX Report No. 610, 17 May 1945, "MSgt. John M. McMahan (Stalag II-B)," EX
Report No. 611, 17 May 1945, "Cpl. Alfred C. Carroll (Stalag II-B0," EX
Report No. 612, 17 May 1945, "Pvt. Gunnar S. Drangsholt (Stalag II-B0," EX
Report No. 613, 22 May 1945, "Sgt. Warren O. Allen (Stalag II-B)," CPM
Branch, WDGS MIS-X, "Interrogations," Subject File, Prisoner of War
Information Branch, box 2006, Entry 460A, RG 389, NA. Bob Ryan, "For You
the War is Over," in Jane E. Thierry (ed.), Looking Back at War: National
Archives Volunteers Remember World War II (Washington: National Archives,
1995), pp. 119-21.

....

--Deb
--
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Deb Bert
2003-09-30 04:00:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martha
Anyone familiar with the name Col. J. D. Wilmeth?
Martha
Association of Graduates
West Point, NY
September / October 1997

Reports of death of graduates and former cadets received since publication
of the last issue of ASSEMBLY.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
...
Name: James D. Wilmeth
Class: 1934
Date of Death: 20 Jul 1997
Place of Death: Ft. Worth, TX
...

--Deb
--
This e-mail message is intended only for the personal
use of the recipient(s) named above. If you are not
an intended recipient, you may not review, copy or
distribute this message.
unknown
2003-09-30 01:39:05 UTC
Permalink
Excuse my last post. I spelled Wilmeth incorrectly. I have corrected
the spelling in this post.
Post by Martha
Anyone familiar with the name Col. J. D. Wilmeth?
Martha
There is also a mention of a J.D. Wilmeth in a pdf document entitled:

1992-1994 FINDINGS OF THE WWII WORKING GROUP

The paper discusses how American POWs came into Soviet military
custody at the end of WWII, and describes what happened to these men.


http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/special/96_compre_ww2prta.pdf


There are three references to Col. J.D. Wilmeth in this document.


Here's one:


"Although Allied authorities, at SHAEF, the War Office in London, the
War Department in Washington, and the military mission in Moscow
actively gathered information about these camps, the Soviet Army
apparently had little prior knowledge about the location, numbers, and
conditions of the Allied POWs they would overrun. An American officer
who served as a liaison with the Soviets in Poland declared frankly,
"...the Russian front had no knowledge of the camps prior to their
capture." 23

Footnote 23: Lt. Col James D. Wilmeth "Report on a Visit to Lublin,
Poland 27 Feb-28 March, 1945" USMMM Subject Files, "POWs-Personnel
Evacuated Through Odessa," box 22 entry 309, RG334, NA

There are two other footnotes that refer to Lt. Col JD Wilmeth in this
document.

Peter Fokes
http://www.toronto.hm/
unknown
2003-09-30 02:10:56 UTC
Permalink
My Goodness. Look what a search of Google newsgroups revealed:

From a post in soc.history.war.world-war-ii - 13 Oct 1998 by
Patterson, Dallas

Wilmeth is mentioned several times:

<quote>


One source recounts a report from Lt. Colonel James D. Wilmeth, one of
only a few American military personnel the Soviet authorities would
allow into Soviet occupied Poland for the purpose of contacting
American POWs for repatriation. He spoke with a number of Americans as
they were moving or were moved through Lublin. Wilmeth said, "Red Army
front line had been using the battle-cry 'on to England.' Everyone in
and behind the Red Army front lines was talking about the war between
the U.S.S.R., and England and America....(Sanders et al)." Allegedly,
many of the American POWs that fell into the hands of the Soviet
authorities were interrogated, and thousands of them were held hostage
and never repatriated to the United States or Great Britain. Other
stories recount how some few Anglo-American POWs took matters into
their own hands and escaped Soviet and German authorities to win their
freedom in the Anglo-American occupation zones.

Stories of impending Soviet hostilities against the Western Allied
forces were also reported by these escapees.

Senior Soviet commanders and intelligence officers closely questioned
American POWs and German POWs about their opinions of the qualities
and effectiveness of the Anglo-American air forces versus the Soviet
air forces. They also demonstrated a special concern about the
effectiveness of German anti-aircraft defenses versus the
Anglo-American air forces.

In other words, major elements of the Soviet armies believed they were
preparing to continue onwards and across the North German Plain to the
English Channel. In fact, Anglo-American POWs were in effect held as
hostages pending the forcible repatriation of all Soviet citizens
present in Allied nations and occupation zones. These indications of
hostile intent by the Soviet Union against their Allies were evident
in February 1945, and they were a major contribution to the incitement
of the Cold War.

Stalin was suspicious of the Allies, particularly Churchill, Great
Britain, and the Truman Administration. With the Red Army poised and
the troops indoctrinated for an invasion of Western Europe, why did
Stalin not follow through with such a plan? The answer to that
question must always be debated and remain debatable. Nevertheless, if
Stalin believed the Soviet economy and manpower deficiencies
prohibited the invasion in May to September 1945, why did he consider
it feasible in January to May 1945? Perhaps there was no single factor
that was persuasive to Stalin. Perhaps it was the combination of a
number of factors that persuaded him to rebuild the Soviet economy
before embarking on such a conquest of Western Europe.

What could some of those factors have been? Knowledge of Soviet
weaknesses in food, logistics (including the destroyed road and rail
networks), and manpower. Intelligence about the atomic bomb
developments from spies in the Manhattan Project persuaded Stalin to
adopt a wait and see posture pending proof of the weapon's
performance. The destruction wrought by the
conventional Anglo-American air forces upon the Axis cities,
industries, and military targets came to be more and more respected as
Soviet forces and Soviet intelligence occupied and evaluated the Axis
ruins. The Soviet capture and confiscation of the American B-29
Superfortress bombers and crews in the Far East territories
demonstrated an American strategic bombardment capability towards
critical Soviet targets. Anglo-American jet fighter squadrons were
becoming operational. The British election replaced
Churchill with Atlee, and the British Chiefs of Staff demonstrated a
resolve to meet a Soviet invasion with an Anglo-American
counter-invasion. Finally, the Anglo-American forces began a
demobilization, but this
demobilization was poised to reverse its direction if Stalin failed to
demobilize as well.

Once Stalin began his demobilization, the opportunity for the invasion
of Western Europe was lost. The Anglo-American forces were entirely
capable of using their unprecedented land, air, and sea mobility to
successfully conduct mobile defensive and offensive operations while
using air interdiction against the Soviet land and sea transport and
communications. From Stalin's point of view, the Anglo-Americans could
successfully mobilize and reinforce their armies faster than he could
re mobilize the Red Army to invade Western Europe. So, Stalin waited.
He waited to build Soviet nuclear weapons, Soviet ballistic missiles,
Soviet air forces equipped with jets, and Soviet armies equipped with
superior tanks. He waited to see the superior Bolshevist economy equip
the Red Army with weapons superior to those of the Anglo-American
'imperialists.' He waited in vain.

Perhaps the newspaper story has revealed only a small part of the
story, a deception or a real plan designed to forestall the imminent
Soviet invasion of Western Europe in 1945-46? Perhaps Stalin
considered the sacrifice of millions more of the Soviet populace to
famine and other privation as a worthwhile opportunity to Bolshevize
Western Europe and exploit their resources and economies for the
rebuilding of the Soviet State. After all, the Red Army and Soviet
people made the sacrifice to win the Great Patriotic War for Europe,
so the Soviet people were entitled to the compensation from Western
Europe (Stalin could have said). Perhaps Stalin relented when a firm
Anglo-American resolve and intent to counter-invade a war weakened
Soviet State became known.

Whatever the reality of Stalin's intentions and decisions may have
been, however,the Soviet armies in Poland and Germany seemed to have
some reason to believe they would be in combat against the
Anglo-Americans, just as soon as the Hitlerites were defeated. The
Anglo-American intelligence services were informed of this fact by Lt.
Colonel Wilmeth and many others. If you were the British Chiefs of
Staff and you wanted to divert the Soviet armies away from the British
Army in Germany, wouldn't you plan a diversionary campaign against the
enemy's vulnerable flanks with your numerically weaker but
technologically stronger and more mobile forces?
Wouldn't you seek to bring about the disaffection of the Muslim
populations in the Soviet Union and divert Soviet armies to the
southern Soviet republics and away from Western Europe and Great
Britain itself? Wouldn't you seek to protect your Iranian and Iraqui
oil field supplies against a Soviet refusal to withdraw from the
wartime occupation of Iran?

These are of course rhetorical questions. This newsgroup can
doubtlessly debate these questions into eternity. They are, however,
intended only as some of the many such possible explanations for the
reported facts of an impending Soviet invasion of Western Europe. In
other words, the newspaper story about a British plan for a post-WWII
conflict with the Soviet Union is very likely only a small part of a
much larger puzzle. Attempting to deduce a British motivation and
intent from that small piece of the puzzle is probably a futile and
exceedingly deceptive exercise. Until more of the necessarily larger
story of the Cold War is revealed, it would be wise for
all of us to reserve our conclusions and judgements of this piece of
that history.

Dallas Patterson
***@fidalgo.net

<quote off>

Peter Fokes


http://www.toronto.hm/
Martha
2003-09-30 03:59:04 UTC
Permalink
Watch it Peter or McAdams will give you his "evil minions" speech.:)

M
Post by unknown
From a post in soc.history.war.world-war-ii - 13 Oct 1998 by
Patterson, Dallas
<quote>
One source recounts a report from Lt. Colonel James D. Wilmeth, one of
only a few American military personnel the Soviet authorities would
allow into Soviet occupied Poland for the purpose of contacting
American POWs for repatriation. He spoke with a number of Americans as
they were moving or were moved through Lublin. Wilmeth said, "Red Army
front line had been using the battle-cry 'on to England.' Everyone in
and behind the Red Army front lines was talking about the war between
the U.S.S.R., and England and America....(Sanders et al)." Allegedly,
many of the American POWs that fell into the hands of the Soviet
authorities were interrogated, and thousands of them were held hostage
and never repatriated to the United States or Great Britain. Other
stories recount how some few Anglo-American POWs took matters into
their own hands and escaped Soviet and German authorities to win their
freedom in the Anglo-American occupation zones.
Stories of impending Soviet hostilities against the Western Allied
forces were also reported by these escapees.
Senior Soviet commanders and intelligence officers closely questioned
American POWs and German POWs about their opinions of the qualities
and effectiveness of the Anglo-American air forces versus the Soviet
air forces. They also demonstrated a special concern about the
effectiveness of German anti-aircraft defenses versus the
Anglo-American air forces.
In other words, major elements of the Soviet armies believed they were
preparing to continue onwards and across the North German Plain to the
English Channel. In fact, Anglo-American POWs were in effect held as
hostages pending the forcible repatriation of all Soviet citizens
present in Allied nations and occupation zones. These indications of
hostile intent by the Soviet Union against their Allies were evident
in February 1945, and they were a major contribution to the incitement
of the Cold War.
Stalin was suspicious of the Allies, particularly Churchill, Great
Britain, and the Truman Administration. With the Red Army poised and
the troops indoctrinated for an invasion of Western Europe, why did
Stalin not follow through with such a plan? The answer to that
question must always be debated and remain debatable. Nevertheless, if
Stalin believed the Soviet economy and manpower deficiencies
prohibited the invasion in May to September 1945, why did he consider
it feasible in January to May 1945? Perhaps there was no single factor
that was persuasive to Stalin. Perhaps it was the combination of a
number of factors that persuaded him to rebuild the Soviet economy
before embarking on such a conquest of Western Europe.
What could some of those factors have been? Knowledge of Soviet
weaknesses in food, logistics (including the destroyed road and rail
networks), and manpower. Intelligence about the atomic bomb
developments from spies in the Manhattan Project persuaded Stalin to
adopt a wait and see posture pending proof of the weapon's
performance. The destruction wrought by the
conventional Anglo-American air forces upon the Axis cities,
industries, and military targets came to be more and more respected as
Soviet forces and Soviet intelligence occupied and evaluated the Axis
ruins. The Soviet capture and confiscation of the American B-29
Superfortress bombers and crews in the Far East territories
demonstrated an American strategic bombardment capability towards
critical Soviet targets. Anglo-American jet fighter squadrons were
becoming operational. The British election replaced
Churchill with Atlee, and the British Chiefs of Staff demonstrated a
resolve to meet a Soviet invasion with an Anglo-American
counter-invasion. Finally, the Anglo-American forces began a
demobilization, but this
demobilization was poised to reverse its direction if Stalin failed to
demobilize as well.
Once Stalin began his demobilization, the opportunity for the invasion
of Western Europe was lost. The Anglo-American forces were entirely
capable of using their unprecedented land, air, and sea mobility to
successfully conduct mobile defensive and offensive operations while
using air interdiction against the Soviet land and sea transport and
communications. From Stalin's point of view, the Anglo-Americans could
successfully mobilize and reinforce their armies faster than he could
re mobilize the Red Army to invade Western Europe. So, Stalin waited.
He waited to build Soviet nuclear weapons, Soviet ballistic missiles,
Soviet air forces equipped with jets, and Soviet armies equipped with
superior tanks. He waited to see the superior Bolshevist economy equip
the Red Army with weapons superior to those of the Anglo-American
'imperialists.' He waited in vain.
Perhaps the newspaper story has revealed only a small part of the
story, a deception or a real plan designed to forestall the imminent
Soviet invasion of Western Europe in 1945-46? Perhaps Stalin
considered the sacrifice of millions more of the Soviet populace to
famine and other privation as a worthwhile opportunity to Bolshevize
Western Europe and exploit their resources and economies for the
rebuilding of the Soviet State. After all, the Red Army and Soviet
people made the sacrifice to win the Great Patriotic War for Europe,
so the Soviet people were entitled to the compensation from Western
Europe (Stalin could have said). Perhaps Stalin relented when a firm
Anglo-American resolve and intent to counter-invade a war weakened
Soviet State became known.
Whatever the reality of Stalin's intentions and decisions may have
been, however,the Soviet armies in Poland and Germany seemed to have
some reason to believe they would be in combat against the
Anglo-Americans, just as soon as the Hitlerites were defeated. The
Anglo-American intelligence services were informed of this fact by Lt.
Colonel Wilmeth and many others. If you were the British Chiefs of
Staff and you wanted to divert the Soviet armies away from the British
Army in Germany, wouldn't you plan a diversionary campaign against the
enemy's vulnerable flanks with your numerically weaker but
technologically stronger and more mobile forces?
Wouldn't you seek to bring about the disaffection of the Muslim
populations in the Soviet Union and divert Soviet armies to the
southern Soviet republics and away from Western Europe and Great
Britain itself? Wouldn't you seek to protect your Iranian and Iraqui
oil field supplies against a Soviet refusal to withdraw from the
wartime occupation of Iran?
These are of course rhetorical questions. This newsgroup can
doubtlessly debate these questions into eternity. They are, however,
intended only as some of the many such possible explanations for the
reported facts of an impending Soviet invasion of Western Europe. In
other words, the newspaper story about a British plan for a post-WWII
conflict with the Soviet Union is very likely only a small part of a
much larger puzzle. Attempting to deduce a British motivation and
intent from that small piece of the puzzle is probably a futile and
exceedingly deceptive exercise. Until more of the necessarily larger
story of the Cold War is revealed, it would be wise for
all of us to reserve our conclusions and judgements of this piece of
that history.
Dallas Patterson
<quote off>
Peter Fokes
http://www.toronto.hm/
Peter Fokes
2003-09-30 06:22:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martha
Watch it Peter or McAdams will give you his "evil minions" speech.:)
M
In the face of such a *whithering attack* on our CT sanity by Michael Paine
and Russ Burr, "Evil Minions" somehow seems a weak retort.

Remember, we are not capable of understanding a psychological report!

We are too sensitive to criticism by LNers. We quake in our boots.

We say silly things [that we don't really say but they need us to say them
to make their point so they invent us saying them].

Ah yes, the "Evil Minions" hard at work!

Peter Fokes

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