Discussion:
Marcello
(too old to reply)
SolFrankRosen
2007-12-03 20:41:45 UTC
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Carlos Marcello, hmmmm... I keep coming back to that name over and
over

In the biography "Robert Kennedy" by Evan Thomas, Thomas cites a
conversation between Dick Goodwin and Bobby in 1967 in which Bobby
notes that he believed JFK was killed by "the guy from New Orleans," -
"meaning Marcello" - writes Thomas

"Carlos Marcello, the don of New Orleans...." writes Thomas

"his (Bobby's) suspicions may have been fed by something told to him
by Walter Sheridan, who had spent months looking into Marcello and his
connections while working on the Garrison story. Sheridan, who,
according to his wife, refused to talk about JFK's assassination until
just before he died in 1996. Then he shocked his son, Walter Jr., by
stating that he was "convinced" that President Kennedy had been killed
by a conspiracy."

Granted, I am entertained by Oliver Stone's film, albeit rife with
flaws, I don't recall Marcello being mentioned in the film.
Interesting for him to have been the N.O. don. Excuse me for using
Stone's words of Dean Andrews, but we are led, quite blindly into the
supposition that Clay Shaw/Bertrand was the big "enchillada".

Sheridan (and RFK) believed Garrison to be a fraud and Sheridan even
had dialoque with a defector from the Garrison camp to buttress this
belief. Could someone remind me of who that defector was?

My point is that even though Garrison may have been a questionable guy
himself, maybe New Orleans was indeed the hub of the "operation". Why
didn't Garrison go after Carlos Marcello instead of Clay?

Anyone out there got any ideas to share on this?
tomnln
2007-12-04 01:06:35 UTC
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Raw Message
Marcello did NOT have the power to "Cover-It-Up".
Post by SolFrankRosen
Carlos Marcello, hmmmm... I keep coming back to that name over and
over
In the biography "Robert Kennedy" by Evan Thomas, Thomas cites a
conversation between Dick Goodwin and Bobby in 1967 in which Bobby
notes that he believed JFK was killed by "the guy from New Orleans," -
"meaning Marcello" - writes Thomas
"Carlos Marcello, the don of New Orleans...." writes Thomas
"his (Bobby's) suspicions may have been fed by something told to him
by Walter Sheridan, who had spent months looking into Marcello and his
connections while working on the Garrison story. Sheridan, who,
according to his wife, refused to talk about JFK's assassination until
just before he died in 1996. Then he shocked his son, Walter Jr., by
stating that he was "convinced" that President Kennedy had been killed
by a conspiracy."
Granted, I am entertained by Oliver Stone's film, albeit rife with
flaws, I don't recall Marcello being mentioned in the film.
Interesting for him to have been the N.O. don. Excuse me for using
Stone's words of Dean Andrews, but we are led, quite blindly into the
supposition that Clay Shaw/Bertrand was the big "enchillada".
Sheridan (and RFK) believed Garrison to be a fraud and Sheridan even
had dialoque with a defector from the Garrison camp to buttress this
belief. Could someone remind me of who that defector was?
My point is that even though Garrison may have been a questionable guy
himself, maybe New Orleans was indeed the hub of the "operation". Why
didn't Garrison go after Carlos Marcello instead of Clay?
Anyone out there got any ideas to share on this?
steve
2007-12-04 05:31:02 UTC
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Post by tomnln
Marcello did NOT have the power to "Cover-It-Up".
Marcello didnt HAVE to cover it up. Oswald was dead and no longer
talking.
tomnln
2007-12-04 18:31:11 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by steve
Post by tomnln
Marcello did NOT have the power to "Cover-It-Up".
Marcello didnt HAVE to cover it up. Oswald was dead and no longer
talking.
I was referring to the Destruction of Evidence for Cover-Up Purposes.

http://whokilledjfk.net/PROVEN%20LIES.htm
steve
2007-12-05 06:38:14 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by tomnln
Post by steve
Post by tomnln
Marcello did NOT have the power to "Cover-It-Up".
Marcello didnt HAVE to cover it up. Oswald was dead and no longer
talking.
I was referring to the Destruction of Evidence for Cover-Up Purposes.
http://whokilledjfk.net/PROVEN%20LIES.htm
does that mean the gov had a hand in the assassination?
tomnln
2007-12-05 20:34:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by steve
Post by tomnln
Post by steve
Post by tomnln
Marcello did NOT have the power to "Cover-It-Up".
Marcello didnt HAVE to cover it up. Oswald was dead and no longer
talking.
I was referring to the Destruction of Evidence for Cover-Up Purposes.
http://whokilledjfk.net/PROVEN%20LIES.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by steve
does that mean the gov had a hand in the assassination?
At a Minimum...."Accessory After the Fact".

Why did you ignore this one?>>>
http://whokilledjfk.net/PROVEN%20LIES.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony Marsh
2007-12-07 03:19:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by tomnln
Post by steve
Post by tomnln
Post by steve
Post by tomnln
Marcello did NOT have the power to "Cover-It-Up".
Marcello didnt HAVE to cover it up. Oswald was dead and no longer
talking.
I was referring to the Destruction of Evidence for Cover-Up Purposes.
http://whokilledjfk.net/PROVEN%20LIES.htm
------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by steve
does that mean the gov had a hand in the assassination?
At a Minimum...."Accessory After the Fact".
Obstruction of Justice.
The new Ford book had an interesting point that he had hinted at before.
He says that the report as originally written said there WAS NO
conspiracy. But he and others forced it to be changed to read that the
Commission could FIND NO evidence of conspiracy.
Post by tomnln
Why did you ignore this one?>>>
http://whokilledjfk.net/PROVEN%20LIES.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SolFrankRosen
2007-12-05 06:38:55 UTC
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Raw Message
Sorry,
What I meant was, of course, in this hypothetical Marcello didn't have
to cover it up as indeed the 'talker' was dead (at least the one the
gov't had pegged). But the 'beneficiaries' (Marcello was in vendetta
mode, not beneficiary - same with the Cayenne-headed-cigars in Miami)
needed to cover it up (the government, LBJ, CIA, FBI) even if they
were not involved in anything other than passively conspiratoral.
Their needs were best met by getting an evidentiary cover-up expedited
to get a LN in and out of the way ASAP.
Post by tomnln
Post by steve
Post by tomnln
Marcello did NOT have the power to "Cover-It-Up".
Marcello didnt HAVE to cover it up. Oswald was dead and no longer
talking.
I was referring to the Destruction of Evidence for Cover-Up Purposes.
http://whokilledjfk.net/PROVEN%20LIES.htm
SolFrankRosen
2007-12-04 18:19:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
But a J. Edgar Hoover, who, per se, denied the very existence of
"organized crime", certainly did. Recall that a couple of days after
the assassination there was a taped phone call between JEH and LBJ in
which a chuckling JEH scoffed at the Washington Post's call for an
immediate independent investigation. This was a chuckling JEH. I've
heard the tape and it was certainly not that of a professional law
enforcement leader seeking the truth.

Understand that this assassination was not a coup d-e'tat nor even one
of definitive proxy (i.e. Marcello does not call the "hit", decide the
funding and its specific beneficiaries, etc.) The crime was more of a
loose culture of characters with many common grievances against JFK.
JFK noted to Jackie upon landing in Dallas that "We're heading into
nut country now...". Anything south of Richmond was nut country in
1963 (confounded Cuban hotheads - still like that today, racists,
commie paranoids, etc.).

My gut instincts tell me that the assassination was like a chess board
with several pieces alligned against JFK, and not all those pieces
were communicating. But just as in chess, opportunity knocks if the
King is in the wrong spot with lots of pieces watching. Such was
Dallas. Rather quickly, loose phone calls were probably made and
enough pieces quickly put into place.

No, I can't prove this scenario (Dulles and JEH knew they couldn't
prove one either - Garrison thought he could, Stone liked the guts
displayed by those trying though), but it's plausible that Marcello in
a passive way noted that 'we'll take care of those involved, the way
good family should'.

Messy, yes... probably the best design... not a lone nut, not a true
conspiracy (i.e. proxy, coordination, definitive group intent). This
was a crime in three stages: 1) irrational hatred of JFK, 2) sudden
taking advantage of opportunity (my gut feeling: two 'dumb followers'
LHO & Ferrie, an unstable Ruby cleanup man ('what's in it for me'),
and some bosses in the shadows giving the nod and the promises
(Marcello>Shaw>Banister), 3) the cover-up (by opportunity again) not
by the perpetrators but by the sudden benefactors - LBJ, JEH, Dulles,
Joint Chiefs, etc.
Post by tomnln
Marcello did NOT have the power to "Cover-It-Up".
Post by SolFrankRosen
Carlos Marcello, hmmmm... I keep coming back to that name over and
over
In the biography "Robert Kennedy" by Evan Thomas, Thomas cites a
conversation between Dick Goodwin and Bobby in 1967 in which Bobby
notes that he believed JFK was killed by "the guy from New Orleans," -
"meaning Marcello" - writes Thomas
"Carlos Marcello, the don of New Orleans...." writes Thomas
"his (Bobby's) suspicions may have been fed by something told to him
by Walter Sheridan, who had spent months looking into Marcello and his
connections while working on the Garrison story. Sheridan, who,
according to his wife, refused to talk about JFK's assassination until
just before he died in 1996. Then he shocked his son, Walter Jr., by
stating that he was "convinced" that President Kennedy had been killed
by a conspiracy."
Granted, I am entertained by Oliver Stone's film, albeit rife with
flaws, I don't recall Marcello being mentioned in the film.
Interesting for him to have been the N.O. don. Excuse me for using
Stone's words of Dean Andrews, but we are led, quite blindly into the
supposition that Clay Shaw/Bertrand was the big "enchillada".
Sheridan (and RFK) believed Garrison to be a fraud and Sheridan even
had dialoque with a defector from the Garrison camp to buttress this
belief. Could someone remind me of who that defector was?
My point is that even though Garrison may have been a questionable guy
himself, maybe New Orleans was indeed the hub of the "operation". Why
didn't Garrison go after Carlos Marcello instead of Clay?
Anyone out there got any ideas to share on this?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
curtjester1
2007-12-05 06:42:26 UTC
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Post by SolFrankRosen
But a J. Edgar Hoover, who, per se, denied the very existence of
"organized crime", certainly did. Recall that a couple of days after
the assassination there was a taped phone call between JEH and LBJ in
which a chuckling JEH scoffed at the Washington Post's call for an
immediate independent investigation. This was a chuckling JEH. I've
heard the tape and it was certainly not that of a professional law
enforcement leader seeking the truth.
Understand that this assassination was not a coup d-e'tat nor even one
of definitive proxy (i.e. Marcello does not call the "hit", decide the
funding and its specific beneficiaries, etc.) The crime was more of a
loose culture of characters with many common grievances against JFK.
JFK noted to Jackie upon landing in Dallas that "We're heading into
nut country now...". Anything south of Richmond was nut country in
1963 (confounded Cuban hotheads - still like that today, racists,
commie paranoids, etc.).
My gut instincts tell me that the assassination was like a chess board
with several pieces alligned against JFK, and not all those pieces
were communicating. But just as in chess, opportunity knocks if the
King is in the wrong spot with lots of pieces watching. Such was
Dallas. Rather quickly, loose phone calls were probably made and
enough pieces quickly put into place.
No, I can't prove this scenario (Dulles and JEH knew they couldn't
prove one either - Garrison thought he could, Stone liked the guts
displayed by those trying though), but it's plausible that Marcello in
a passive way noted that 'we'll take care of those involved, the way
good family should'.
Messy, yes... probably the best design... not a lone nut, not a true
conspiracy (i.e. proxy, coordination, definitive group intent). This
was a crime in three stages: 1) irrational hatred of JFK, 2) sudden
taking advantage of opportunity (my gut feeling: two 'dumb followers'
LHO & Ferrie, an unstable Ruby cleanup man ('what's in it for me'),
and some bosses in the shadows giving the nod and the promises
(Marcello>Shaw>Banister), 3) the cover-up (by opportunity again) not
by the perpetrators but by the sudden benefactors - LBJ, JEH, Dulles,
Joint Chiefs, etc.
I think it was a Coup d' etat, but it took awhile to get it going.
LBJ from even before the election, then the people whose pocket books
got real hurt like the oilmen and the Mob. CIA-Cuban Exiles got under
the wings of those sponsoring them, big oil, eastern establishment
people. All it took was JFK bypassing the Federal Reserve, taxing the
oilmen, getting into the mafia, and wanting to do Cuba on his terms.
People from all those walks of life were well represented the night
before in Ft. Worth.

Robert Gaylon Ross 81 Minute Interview with Madeleine Brown

http://hubpages.com/hub/Madeleine_Duncan_Brown

CJ
Anthony Marsh
2007-12-06 04:15:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by curtjester1
Post by SolFrankRosen
But a J. Edgar Hoover, who, per se, denied the very existence of
"organized crime", certainly did. Recall that a couple of days after
the assassination there was a taped phone call between JEH and LBJ in
which a chuckling JEH scoffed at the Washington Post's call for an
immediate independent investigation. This was a chuckling JEH. I've
heard the tape and it was certainly not that of a professional law
enforcement leader seeking the truth.
Understand that this assassination was not a coup d-e'tat nor even one
of definitive proxy (i.e. Marcello does not call the "hit", decide the
funding and its specific beneficiaries, etc.) The crime was more of a
loose culture of characters with many common grievances against JFK.
JFK noted to Jackie upon landing in Dallas that "We're heading into
nut country now...". Anything south of Richmond was nut country in
1963 (confounded Cuban hotheads - still like that today, racists,
commie paranoids, etc.).
My gut instincts tell me that the assassination was like a chess board
with several pieces alligned against JFK, and not all those pieces
were communicating. But just as in chess, opportunity knocks if the
King is in the wrong spot with lots of pieces watching. Such was
Dallas. Rather quickly, loose phone calls were probably made and
enough pieces quickly put into place.
No, I can't prove this scenario (Dulles and JEH knew they couldn't
prove one either - Garrison thought he could, Stone liked the guts
displayed by those trying though), but it's plausible that Marcello in
a passive way noted that 'we'll take care of those involved, the way
good family should'.
Messy, yes... probably the best design... not a lone nut, not a true
conspiracy (i.e. proxy, coordination, definitive group intent). This
was a crime in three stages: 1) irrational hatred of JFK, 2) sudden
taking advantage of opportunity (my gut feeling: two 'dumb followers'
LHO & Ferrie, an unstable Ruby cleanup man ('what's in it for me'),
and some bosses in the shadows giving the nod and the promises
(Marcello>Shaw>Banister), 3) the cover-up (by opportunity again) not
by the perpetrators but by the sudden benefactors - LBJ, JEH, Dulles,
Joint Chiefs, etc.
I think it was a Coup d' etat, but it took awhile to get it going.
LBJ from even before the election, then the people whose pocket books
Well, you're not trying hard enough. Why not claim that it was planned
back in 1947? Then you'd really impress people with your theories.
Post by curtjester1
got real hurt like the oilmen and the Mob. CIA-Cuban Exiles got under
the wings of those sponsoring them, big oil, eastern establishment
people. All it took was JFK bypassing the Federal Reserve, taxing the
oilmen, getting into the mafia, and wanting to do Cuba on his terms.
Ok, so everybody hated JFK for many different reasons. But only one
group got away with killing him.
Post by curtjester1
People from all those walks of life were well represented the night
before in Ft. Worth.
Robert Gaylon Ross 81 Minute Interview with Madeleine Brown
http://hubpages.com/hub/Madeleine_Duncan_Brown
CJ
curtjester1
2007-12-04 05:04:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by SolFrankRosen
Carlos Marcello, hmmmm... I keep coming back to that name over and
over
In the biography "Robert Kennedy" by Evan Thomas, Thomas cites a
conversation between Dick Goodwin and Bobby in 1967 in which Bobby
notes that he believed JFK was killed by "the guy from New Orleans," -
"meaning Marcello" - writes Thomas
"Carlos Marcello, the don of New Orleans...." writes Thomas
"his (Bobby's) suspicions may have been fed by something told to him
by Walter Sheridan, who had spent months looking into Marcello and his
connections while working on the Garrison story. Sheridan, who,
according to his wife, refused to talk about JFK's assassination until
just before he died in 1996. Then he shocked his son, Walter Jr., by
stating that he was "convinced" that President Kennedy had been killed
by a conspiracy."
Granted, I am entertained by Oliver Stone's film, albeit rife with
flaws, I don't recall Marcello being mentioned in the film.
Interesting for him to have been the N.O. don. Excuse me for using
Stone's words of Dean Andrews, but we are led, quite blindly into the
supposition that Clay Shaw/Bertrand was the big "enchillada".
Sheridan (and RFK) believed Garrison to be a fraud and Sheridan even
had dialoque with a defector from the Garrison camp to buttress this
belief. Could someone remind me of who that defector was?
My point is that even though Garrison may have been a questionable guy
himself, maybe New Orleans was indeed the hub of the "operation". Why
didn't Garrison go after Carlos Marcello instead of Clay?
Anyone out there got any ideas to share on this?
Garrison was either tied into the Mob or was afraid of it, hence he didn't
go after Mob figureheads. Marcello had a vast area of wealth mostly in
Louisiana but Dallas as well. The Mobsters in Dallas, Civello and Campisi
were under Marcello. Read The Mafia Kingfish by John Davis for all the
Marcello scoop. Very poignant and entertaining.

CJ
Greg Jaynes
2007-12-07 02:43:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by curtjester1
Post by SolFrankRosen
Carlos Marcello, hmmmm... I keep coming back to that name over and
over
In the biography "Robert Kennedy" by Evan Thomas, Thomas cites a
conversation between Dick Goodwin and Bobby in 1967 in which Bobby
notes that he believed JFK was killed by "the guy from New Orleans," -
"meaning Marcello" - writes Thomas
"Carlos Marcello, the don of New Orleans...." writes Thomas
"his (Bobby's) suspicions may have been fed by something told to him
by Walter Sheridan, who had spent months looking into Marcello and his
connections while working on the Garrison story. Sheridan, who,
according to his wife, refused to talk about JFK's assassination until
just before he died in 1996. Then he shocked his son, Walter Jr., by
stating that he was "convinced" that President Kennedy had been killed
by a conspiracy."
Granted, I am entertained by Oliver Stone's film, albeit rife with
flaws, I don't recall Marcello being mentioned in the film.
Interesting for him to have been the N.O. don. Excuse me for using
Stone's words of Dean Andrews, but we are led, quite blindly into the
supposition that Clay Shaw/Bertrand was the big "enchillada".
Sheridan (and RFK) believed Garrison to be a fraud and Sheridan even
had dialoque with a defector from the Garrison camp to buttress this
belief. Could someone remind me of who that defector was?
My point is that even though Garrison may have been a questionable guy
himself, maybe New Orleans was indeed the hub of the "operation". Why
didn't Garrison go after Carlos Marcello instead of Clay?
Anyone out there got any ideas to share on this?
Garrison was either tied into the Mob or was afraid of it, hence he didn't
go after Mob figureheads. Marcello had a vast area of wealth mostly in
Louisiana but Dallas as well. The Mobsters in Dallas, Civello and Campisi
were under Marcello. Read The Mafia Kingfish by John Davis for all the
Marcello scoop. Very poignant and entertaining.
CJ- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Mafia Kingfish was interesting for sure. However, I do not think there has
ever been any big time Italian Mafia presence in Dallas.

Will Wilson was the District Attorney before Henry Wade, he helped head
off a move by Chicago mobsters to move into Dallas by setting them up and
recording their conversations. The mobsters tried to corrupt Sheriff Steve
Guthrie. (Guthrie was known as "the boy Sheriff". Bill Decker defeated him
in 1948 to take the job of Dallas County Sheriff) Guthrie called in Wilson
and the Texas Rangers. It's an interesting story, I want to tell it
someday. The Dallas Police were left out of the loop because the Chicago
mob had made some inroads with bribery which all got brought out into the
open at this time.

Wilson got a lot of press out of it and wound up being Texas Attorney
General. At that post, he went after the open gambling operations in
Galveston. There was no Mafia in Galveston either. But there were Italians
who ran things. They just were not in the Mafia. These Italians turned
away the mob as they were turned away in Dallas.

Back to Dallas, what mobsters there were; were gamblers mostly . There
were truck hijackings and jewery store robberies too. But they weren't the
Italian Mafia. Read Beverly Olivers book for a realistic look at Dallas
organized crime. That's right, a LNer referring you to Beverly Olivers
book. There are some real insights in her story. Plus in case any one is
interested, I know for a fact from different sources about some things she
discusses like the murder of George Fuqua and the murder of Stanley
"Creeper" Cook. Fuqua is an obscure name. No reason for her to lie about
it cause no one ever heard of the guy. (Except for me that is). Dallas
Police captain Paul Macaghren labeled the Dallas crime confederation, the
Dixie Mafia. Beverlys husband George McGann was one of the top guys in it.
Hey, has anyone ever heard the story that McGann killed Buford Pussers
wife? Y'all probably think Bufford Pusser walked tall and stood up for
the law don't you? I know, it sounds like it's gonna get deep right about
now but I'm not going to do it here so relax.

I don't mean to say there never was anyone who was mobbed up in Dallas,
just that the Italian Mafia never ran things in Dallas. That includes
Marcello, Civillo, Campisi or any of 'em. I don't even think Campisi was a
criminal at all. I'm sure he knew everyone, but he was just a resturaunt
owner.

Bill Decker had the final word on what was allowed in Dallas. I like
talking to his old time deputies. They'll tell you about him. They're full
of shit a lot of the time cause they like to talk it up as can be read in
the bullshit book Decker. But they also know the real story and the real
gangsters of Dallas' past.

Clint Murchison did business with Carlos Marcello. These deals were for
cash financing. Murchison invented the concept of "Other Peoples Money"
Marcello was a good source of ready cash. Murchison just went around
starting up cash cows and putting someone in charge of running them and
paying off the debts. He owned everything and somebody else always did all
the work. It worked great his whole life. It finally caight up with
Murchisons son Clint Jr. and as a result Jr. had to sell the Dallas
Cowboys but thats another story. The next time you go into a Tony Romas
and order some baby back ribs savor the thought of it being part of
Murchisons legacy.

There was big money in Dallas,.back when Big money really seperated the
real rich from the real poor. Dallas had the old rich families who thought
they were too good for the newly super rich oil field trash like
Murchison, Sid Richardson, H.L. Hunt who all traded off at one time or the
other being the richest men on earth.

But at the end of the day, Dallas was never in the hands of the Italian
Mafia. It always bothers me when people think that Marcello ran anything
in Dallas. He did not.

Respectfully,
Greg Jaynes
steve
2007-12-07 18:19:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Greg Jaynes
Post by curtjester1
Post by SolFrankRosen
Carlos Marcello, hmmmm... I keep coming back to that name over and
over
In the biography "Robert Kennedy" by Evan Thomas, Thomas cites a
conversation between Dick Goodwin and Bobby in 1967 in which Bobby
notes that he believed JFK was killed by "the guy from New Orleans," -
"meaning Marcello" - writes Thomas
"Carlos Marcello, the don of New Orleans...." writes Thomas
"his (Bobby's) suspicions may have been fed by something told to him
by Walter Sheridan, who had spent months looking into Marcello and his
connections while working on the Garrison story. Sheridan, who,
according to his wife, refused to talk about JFK's assassination until
just before he died in 1996. Then he shocked his son, Walter Jr., by
stating that he was "convinced" that President Kennedy had been killed
by a conspiracy."
Granted, I am entertained by Oliver Stone's film, albeit rife with
flaws, I don't recall Marcello being mentioned in the film.
Interesting for him to have been the N.O. don. Excuse me for using
Stone's words of Dean Andrews, but we are led, quite blindly into the
supposition that Clay Shaw/Bertrand was the big "enchillada".
Sheridan (and RFK) believed Garrison to be a fraud and Sheridan even
had dialoque with a defector from the Garrison camp to buttress this
belief. Could someone remind me of who that defector was?
My point is that even though Garrison may have been a questionable guy
himself, maybe New Orleans was indeed the hub of the "operation". Why
didn't Garrison go after Carlos Marcello instead of Clay?
Anyone out there got any ideas to share on this?
Garrison was either tied into the Mob or was afraid of it, hence he didn't
go after Mob figureheads. Marcello had a vast area of wealth mostly in
Louisiana but Dallas as well. The Mobsters in Dallas, Civello and Campisi
were under Marcello. Read The Mafia Kingfish by John Davis for all the
Marcello scoop. Very poignant and entertaining.
CJ- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Mafia Kingfish was interesting for sure. However, I do not think there has
ever been any big time Italian Mafia presence in Dallas.
Will Wilson was the District Attorney before Henry Wade, he helped head
off a move by Chicago mobsters to move into Dallas by setting them up and
recording their conversations. The mobsters tried to corrupt Sheriff Steve
Guthrie. (Guthrie was known as "the boy Sheriff". Bill Decker defeated him
in 1948 to take the job of Dallas County Sheriff) Guthrie called in Wilson
and the Texas Rangers. It's an interesting story, I want to tell it
someday. The Dallas Police were left out of the loop because the Chicago
mob had made some inroads with bribery which all got brought out into the
open at this time.
Wilson got a lot of press out of it and wound up being Texas Attorney
General. At that post, he went after the open gambling operations in
Galveston. There was no Mafia in Galveston either. But there were Italians
who ran things. They just were not in the Mafia. These Italians turned
away the mob as they were turned away in Dallas.
Back to Dallas, what mobsters there were; were gamblers mostly . There
were truck hijackings and jewery store robberies too. But they weren't the
Italian Mafia. Read Beverly Olivers book for a realistic look at Dallas
organized crime. That's right, a LNer referring you to Beverly Olivers
book. There are some real insights in her story. Plus in case any one is
interested, I know for a fact from different sources about some things she
discusses like the murder of George Fuqua and the murder of Stanley
"Creeper" Cook. Fuqua is an obscure name. No reason for her to lie about
it cause no one ever heard of the guy. (Except for me that is). Dallas
Police captain Paul Macaghren labeled the Dallas crime confederation, the
Dixie Mafia. Beverlys husband George McGann was one of the top guys in it.
Hey, has anyone ever heard the story that McGann killed Buford Pussers
wife? Y'all probably think Bufford Pusser walked tall and stood up for
the law don't you? I know, it sounds like it's gonna get deep right about
now but I'm not going to do it here so relax.
I don't mean to say there never was anyone who was mobbed up in Dallas,
just that the Italian Mafia never ran things in Dallas. That includes
Marcello, Civillo, Campisi or any of 'em. I don't even think Campisi was a
criminal at all. I'm sure he knew everyone, but he was just a resturaunt
owner.
Bill Decker had the final word on what was allowed in Dallas. I like
talking to his old time deputies. They'll tell you about him. They're full
of shit a lot of the time cause they like to talk it up as can be read in
the bullshit book Decker. But they also know the real story and the real
gangsters of Dallas' past.
Clint Murchison did business with Carlos Marcello. These deals were for
cash financing. Murchison invented the concept of "Other Peoples Money"
Marcello was a good source of ready cash. Murchison just went around
starting up cash cows and putting someone in charge of running them and
paying off the debts. He owned everything and somebody else always did all
the work. It worked great his whole life. It finally caight up with
Murchisons son Clint Jr. and as a result Jr. had to sell the Dallas
Cowboys but thats another story. The next time you go into a Tony Romas
and order some baby back ribs savor the thought of it being part of
Murchisons legacy.
There was big money in Dallas,.back when Big money really seperated the
real rich from the real poor. Dallas had the old rich families who thought
they were too good for the newly super rich oil field trash like
Murchison, Sid Richardson, H.L. Hunt who all traded off at one time or the
other being the richest men on earth.
But at the end of the day, Dallas was never in the hands of the Italian
Mafia. It always bothers me when people think that Marcello ran anything
in Dallas. He did not.
Respectfully,
Greg Jaynes- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
i respectfully disagree.
steve
2007-12-07 19:27:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Greg Jaynes
But at the end of the day, Dallas was never in the hands of the Italian
Mafia. It always bothers me when people think that Marcello ran anything
in Dallas. He did not.
not even the Italians that did operate there?
Anthony Marsh
2007-12-08 03:19:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by steve
Post by Greg Jaynes
But at the end of the day, Dallas was never in the hands of the Italian
Mafia. It always bothers me when people think that Marcello ran anything
in Dallas. He did not.
not even the Italians that did operate there?
It is called a region or sphere of influence. For many years Boston was
under the umbrella of Patriarca, out of Providence.

http://www.onewal.com/maf-b-ne.html
steve
2007-12-09 01:26:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by steve
Post by Greg Jaynes
But at the end of the day, Dallas was never in the hands of the Italian
Mafia. It always bothers me when people think that Marcello ran anything
in Dallas. He did not.
not even the Italians that did operate there?
It is called a region or sphere of influence. For many years Boston was
under the umbrella of Patriarca, out of Providence.
http://www.onewal.com/maf-b-ne.html
i thought we were talking about dallas. i think we are on the same
page here again Tony. Im challenging the guy who is saying there was
NO Italian mob presence in Dallas.
Anthony Marsh
2007-12-09 04:23:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by steve
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by steve
Post by Greg Jaynes
But at the end of the day, Dallas was never in the hands of the Italian
Mafia. It always bothers me when people think that Marcello ran anything
in Dallas. He did not.
not even the Italians that did operate there?
It is called a region or sphere of influence. For many years Boston was
under the umbrella of Patriarca, out of Providence.
http://www.onewal.com/maf-b-ne.html
i thought we were talking about dallas. i think we are on the same
WE were talking about the concept. Patriarca is an example to prove it
happens.
Post by steve
page here again Tony. Im challenging the guy who is saying there was
NO Italian mob presence in Dallas.
Greg Jaynes
2007-12-08 19:20:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by steve
Post by Greg Jaynes
But at the end of the day, Dallas was never in the hands of the Italian
Mafia. It always bothers me when people think that Marcello ran anything
in Dallas. He did not.
not even the Italians that did operate there?
Steve,

I had an interesting set of discussions both with Madeliene Brown
and Fred Bruner who was Patsy Paschalls lawyer and the lawyer
for the doctor in Roe v. Wade.

Neither one thought much of the other. First I had asked Madeleine if
she knew Bruner. She did. She knew him well. She told me a story
about the time Bruner got into a fight with a prosecutor in the court
room
and got arrested for it. She told me how a bunch of people she knew
all thought it was funny and they threw in to pay his fine. There was
more
money collected than was the amount of the fine so they gave the
money
to Bruner. I asked her what she thought about him and she said he was
a
"mob lawyer". Well, I thought it was a great story in itself and did
not press
her as to what mob he was a lawyer for.

Bruner had been an assistant district attorney for Henry Wade until
1957.
That year he resigned from the DA's office and went into private
practise.
That same year he also bought a ranch in Sachse Texas. It's not far
from
Dallas. Once, I had the occaision to visit the ranch when I drove
Bruner out
there to check on it. Bruner also bought a nice house in Highland
Park which is a ritzy little town completely surrounded by the city of
Dallas.
On the same street Bruner lives on (still last I heard) lives Ross
Perot Jr. and
one street over, the former governor of Texas Bill Clemens. Suffice it
to say
you had to have some cash to be able to buy into the place. Oh, yeah
Jerry Jones lives there now too. So, where did an assistant DA come up
with the kind of cash to buy all this real estate? Maybe Madeleine was
right.
I do not know. But I was curious about it.

I asked Bruner what he thought about Madeleine. He gruffly answered in
a
dismissive way, "She was a whore". Please note I am just saying what
Bruner told me. I liked Madeleine very much. I asked him If he knew
anything
about her and LBJ. He said he wouldn't be surprised if she had not
spent some time with him but didn't give much credence to there being
a real
relationship. I didn't get the idea he knew for sure and took his
answer as
an off the cuff dismissal of the idea.

Then I asked Bruner about the story Madeleine had told me about him
getting
thrown into jail and his friends coming up with the fine money. He
laughed and
confirmed it and said after they gave him the extra money he thought
about
slugging Joe Tonnahill again as that is the ADA he got into the fight
with.

So , I knew Madeleine had real and useful information even if the
story about
the relationship with LBJ wasn't true or the story about a party at
Murchisons
house the night before the assassination. I do have to say that with
out a shred
of proof about the LBJ relationship story, I do believe her about it.
But I know
the Murchison party story could not be and is not true.

Oh yeah, this thread is about the mob in Dallas, right? Well, I asked
Bruner about
it specifically mentioning Carlos Marcello. Bruner exploded with an
indignant
answer saying "Marcello was out of New Orleans. That's six hundred
miles away!"
I forget off the top of my head as I write this what Marcello's
brothers name is but
Bruner told me he knew him. It was interesting stuff but nothing about
any
Italian Mafia specifically related to Dallas. So then I asked Bruner
if he knew
Beverly Oliver and he said no. I asked if he knew George McGann who
was
her husband and he did know him. I asked if he knew R.D. Matthews and
he said
he did. He told me not to mess around with Matthews. Not that I was of
course.
The reason I asked him was that since he knew McGann and McGann and
Matthews
were associated in I'll just say "whatever" cause I ain't got no
proof. But I will
point out that Beverly wrote about Matthews and McGann in her book.

Al Maddox told me that McGann was "a tough, tough man". I asked him
about
R.D. Matthews and Maddox knows him and said to tell him hello from Al
Maddox
next time I saw him. Though I have never met R.D. Matthews. I only
know about
him from Beverly's book, Tom Bowden, and the old Dallas deputies like
Maddox.
OBTW, I have all the stuff with Maddox recorded. I saw him in Dealey
plaza on the
22, and he didn't remember me right off. He is suffering from
alzheimers.

Anyway, the point is, there was in Dallas a confederated mob which
Beverly
refers to as "rounders" in her book. This group which became labeled
the Dixie
Mafia by Capt Macaghren also included people from the State Line mob
ala
the "Walking Tall" saga. But again, I reiterate that none of this had
anything to do
with any Italian Mafia. These were corn fed white boys, Benny Binion
types.

No one can say there was never anyone in Dallas who was in the Mafia.
And that is not what I am saying. But as far as any large scale or
dominant
presence, no. Bill Decker wouldn't have allowed it. Dallas was his
town.
He was the biggest bad ass there was around Dallas. May it please God
almighty that he didn't tell any of his deputies that someone was
"paid for".
At the arrest of James Walter Cherry for murdering Buddy Walthers,
Decker
asked Deputy Brock "Why didn't you kill him?". Brock answered that
there
had been children across the street watching.

It's kind of fun to remember up some of these old stories. Though the
way it goes with the overall subject of the assassination, I'm sure
you are
not convinced. But I never lost a minute of sleeping worrying about
convincing
anyone of anything. It's enough for me that I know. There is a lot I
don't know
but do know how to find out. It's just that it never ends, this trip
down the
rabbit hole.

Respectfully,
Greg Jaynes
Martin Shackelford
2007-12-10 17:14:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
The FBI disagreed with you. They listed Campisi and Civello as Marcello
associates and Mafia.
According to Jim Gatewood, the head of the Texas Mafia lived in Dallas.

Martin
Post by Greg Jaynes
Post by steve
Post by Greg Jaynes
But at the end of the day, Dallas was never in the hands of the Italian
Mafia. It always bothers me when people think that Marcello ran anything
in Dallas. He did not.
not even the Italians that did operate there?
Steve,
I had an interesting set of discussions both with Madeliene Brown
and Fred Bruner who was Patsy Paschalls lawyer and the lawyer
for the doctor in Roe v. Wade.
Neither one thought much of the other. First I had asked Madeleine if
she knew Bruner. She did. She knew him well. She told me a story
about the time Bruner got into a fight with a prosecutor in the court
room
and got arrested for it. She told me how a bunch of people she knew
all thought it was funny and they threw in to pay his fine. There was
more
money collected than was the amount of the fine so they gave the
money
to Bruner. I asked her what she thought about him and she said he was
a
"mob lawyer". Well, I thought it was a great story in itself and did
not press
her as to what mob he was a lawyer for.
Bruner had been an assistant district attorney for Henry Wade until
1957.
That year he resigned from the DA's office and went into private
practise.
That same year he also bought a ranch in Sachse Texas. It's not far
from
Dallas. Once, I had the occaision to visit the ranch when I drove
Bruner out
there to check on it. Bruner also bought a nice house in Highland
Park which is a ritzy little town completely surrounded by the city of
Dallas.
On the same street Bruner lives on (still last I heard) lives Ross
Perot Jr. and
one street over, the former governor of Texas Bill Clemens. Suffice it
to say
you had to have some cash to be able to buy into the place. Oh, yeah
Jerry Jones lives there now too. So, where did an assistant DA come up
with the kind of cash to buy all this real estate? Maybe Madeleine was
right.
I do not know. But I was curious about it.
I asked Bruner what he thought about Madeleine. He gruffly answered in
a
dismissive way, "She was a whore". Please note I am just saying what
Bruner told me. I liked Madeleine very much. I asked him If he knew
anything
about her and LBJ. He said he wouldn't be surprised if she had not
spent some time with him but didn't give much credence to there being
a real
relationship. I didn't get the idea he knew for sure and took his
answer as
an off the cuff dismissal of the idea.
Then I asked Bruner about the story Madeleine had told me about him
getting
thrown into jail and his friends coming up with the fine money. He
laughed and
confirmed it and said after they gave him the extra money he thought
about
slugging Joe Tonnahill again as that is the ADA he got into the fight
with.
So , I knew Madeleine had real and useful information even if the
story about
the relationship with LBJ wasn't true or the story about a party at
Murchisons
house the night before the assassination. I do have to say that with
out a shred
of proof about the LBJ relationship story, I do believe her about it.
But I know
the Murchison party story could not be and is not true.
Oh yeah, this thread is about the mob in Dallas, right? Well, I asked
Bruner about
it specifically mentioning Carlos Marcello. Bruner exploded with an
indignant
answer saying "Marcello was out of New Orleans. That's six hundred
miles away!"
I forget off the top of my head as I write this what Marcello's
brothers name is but
Bruner told me he knew him. It was interesting stuff but nothing about
any
Italian Mafia specifically related to Dallas. So then I asked Bruner
if he knew
Beverly Oliver and he said no. I asked if he knew George McGann who
was
her husband and he did know him. I asked if he knew R.D. Matthews and
he said
he did. He told me not to mess around with Matthews. Not that I was of
course.
The reason I asked him was that since he knew McGann and McGann and
Matthews
were associated in I'll just say "whatever" cause I ain't got no
proof. But I will
point out that Beverly wrote about Matthews and McGann in her book.
Al Maddox told me that McGann was "a tough, tough man". I asked him
about
R.D. Matthews and Maddox knows him and said to tell him hello from Al
Maddox
next time I saw him. Though I have never met R.D. Matthews. I only
know about
him from Beverly's book, Tom Bowden, and the old Dallas deputies like
Maddox.
OBTW, I have all the stuff with Maddox recorded. I saw him in Dealey
plaza on the
22, and he didn't remember me right off. He is suffering from
alzheimers.
Anyway, the point is, there was in Dallas a confederated mob which
Beverly
refers to as "rounders" in her book. This group which became labeled
the Dixie
Mafia by Capt Macaghren also included people from the State Line mob
ala
the "Walking Tall" saga. But again, I reiterate that none of this had
anything to do
with any Italian Mafia. These were corn fed white boys, Benny Binion
types.
No one can say there was never anyone in Dallas who was in the Mafia.
And that is not what I am saying. But as far as any large scale or
dominant
presence, no. Bill Decker wouldn't have allowed it. Dallas was his
town.
He was the biggest bad ass there was around Dallas. May it please God
almighty that he didn't tell any of his deputies that someone was
"paid for".
At the arrest of James Walter Cherry for murdering Buddy Walthers,
Decker
asked Deputy Brock "Why didn't you kill him?". Brock answered that
there
had been children across the street watching.
It's kind of fun to remember up some of these old stories. Though the
way it goes with the overall subject of the assassination, I'm sure
you are
not convinced. But I never lost a minute of sleeping worrying about
convincing
anyone of anything. It's enough for me that I know. There is a lot I
don't know
but do know how to find out. It's just that it never ends, this trip
down the
rabbit hole.
Respectfully,
Greg Jaynes
Greg Jaynes
2007-12-11 01:24:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Martin Shackelford
The FBI disagreed with you. They listed Campisi and Civello as Marcello
associates and Mafia.
Well, I know Marcello was in the Mafia. I read Mafia Kingfish.
But he's out of New Orleans. That's six hundred miles away!
(as Bruner put it)

Civello, yes I believe he was in the Mafia. But he wasn't running
things in Dallas. When I say big time presence, I mean like New York,
Boston, Chicago, Miami, New Orleans. There was no Italian Mafia
crime boss or family in Dallas like that. There was of course
organized
crime but I threaten to repeat myself here.
Post by Martin Shackelford
According to Jim Gatewood, the head of the Texas Mafia lived in Dallas.
Martin
I want to be fair here. Jim Gatewood is a nice guy and he's very
friendly.
I met him once at the Bonnie & Clyde festival in Gibsland, La. and
then
another time when I gave a presentation to the Deckers deputies
monthly
meeting near Dallas.

He's got a fun sense of adventure and storytelling. He's a good guy
so
this is in no way a disparagement of him personally. But if he says
something is so, then I'm gonna need to see chapter and verse where
he got it from. He is more or less a modern day dime novelist. He is
not a historian. He is a writer. Like Jim Marrs IMHO. So, using him
as
a source don't cut it.

And Martin. I know my postings here are abbreiviated and a little
thin.
That's because I'm not sitting on top of a stack of files like I used
to do
when posting on the news groups. I'm just remembering this stuff and
hoping not to embarass myself too badly with any mistakes. So, I'm
owning up to a little weakness in my arguments here. But don't be
fooled
by that. If it mattered, I could pull together a solid presentation.

Now that I have been honest about that, how strong of a point does it
sound like you are making when you say:
" According to Jim Gatewood, the head of the Texas Mafia lived in
Dallas"

The first thing I'm tempted to do ask is, "Really? Did he say who it
was?"

Respectfully,
Greg Jaynes
steve
2007-12-11 02:40:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Greg Jaynes
Post by Martin Shackelford
The FBI disagreed with you. They listed Campisi and Civello as Marcello
associates and Mafia.
Well, I know Marcello was in the Mafia. I read Mafia Kingfish.
But he's out of New Orleans. That's six hundred miles away!
(as Bruner put it)
Civello, yes I believe he was in the Mafia. But he wasn't running
things in Dallas. When I say big time presence, I mean like New York,
Boston, Chicago, Miami, New Orleans. There was no Italian Mafia
crime boss or family in Dallas like that. There was of course
organized
crime but I threaten to repeat myself here.
funny how the mob guy you admit was in Dallas, Civello, was caught at a
meeting with ALL the big time boys from all the cities you named. its a
misconception to say the Italians "were not running things in Dallas."
you could also say that the "dixie mafia" as you call them, didnt run the
Italians. your talking about 2 different criminal organizations. if you
talk to someone farmiliar with the "dixie mafia" it does not mean the
Italian mafia didnt exist, it means you didnt talk to someone in the
Italian mafia. and if you talk to someone in the Italian mafia, they might
not mention the "dixie mafia" but it does not mean the good ol boy network
didnt exist. both are going to CLAIM they ran the place.
Post by Greg Jaynes
Post by Martin Shackelford
According to Jim Gatewood, the head of the Texas Mafia lived in Dallas.
Martin
I want to be fair here. Jim Gatewood is a nice guy and he's very
friendly.
I met him once at the Bonnie & Clyde festival in Gibsland, La. and
then
another time when I gave a presentation to the Deckers deputies
monthly
meeting near Dallas.
He's got a fun sense of adventure and storytelling. He's a good guy
so
this is in no way a disparagement of him personally. But if he says
something is so, then I'm gonna need to see chapter and verse where
he got it from. He is more or less a modern day dime novelist. He is
not a historian. He is a writer. Like Jim Marrs IMHO. So, using him
as
a source don't cut it.
And Martin. I know my postings here are abbreiviated and a little
thin.
That's because I'm not sitting on top of a stack of files like I used
to do
when posting on the news groups. I'm just remembering this stuff and
hoping not to embarass myself too badly with any mistakes. So, I'm
owning up to a little weakness in my arguments here. But don't be
fooled
by that. If it mattered, I could pull together a solid presentation.
Now that I have been honest about that, how strong of a point does it
" According to Jim Gatewood, the head of the Texas Mafia lived in
Dallas"
The first thing I'm tempted to do ask is, "Really? Did he say who it
was?"
Respectfully,
Greg Jaynes
Greg Jaynes
2007-12-12 01:54:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by steve
Post by Greg Jaynes
Post by Martin Shackelford
The FBI disagreed with you. They listed Campisi and Civello as Marcello
associates and Mafia.
Well, I know Marcello was in the Mafia. I read Mafia Kingfish.
But he's out of New Orleans. That's six hundred miles away!
(as Bruner put it)
Civello, yes I believe he was in the Mafia. But he wasn't running
things in Dallas. When I say big time presence, I mean like New York,
Boston, Chicago, Miami, New Orleans. There was no Italian Mafia
crime boss or family in Dallas like that. There was of course
organized
crime but I threaten to repeat myself here.
funny how the mob guy you admit was in Dallas, Civello, was caught at a
meeting with ALL the big time boys from all the cities you named. its a
misconception to say the Italians "were not running things in Dallas."
you could also say that the "dixie mafia" as you call them, didnt run the
Italians.
your talking about 2 different criminal organizations.
No I'm not. You are.
Post by steve
if you
talk to someone farmiliar with the "dixie mafia" it does not mean the
Italian mafia didnt exist, it means you didnt talk to someone in the
Italian mafia.
The logic of that statement is sound but the extension of it
is just as sound which is to say that you have not proven they
existed either by not talking to them.
Post by steve
and if you talk to someone in the Italian mafia, they might
not mention the "dixie mafia" but it does not mean the good ol boy network
didnt exist. both are going to CLAIM they ran the place.
Not even the Dixie Mafia ran the place. Bill Decker and the
Dallas Sheriffs Office ran the place. I believe Decker looked
the other way on the gambling as one way he kept the mob
in control for other things. The good 'ol boy network did exist.
But it went thru Decker.

I'm saddened to see that Charlie Tessmer has died.
I did a Yahoo search on his name so I could familiarize
you with him. I have about an hour long interview with
him recorded. It's with my stuff in Dallas. I will be going
back to Dallas on the 19th so I could pull it up.

http://www.nacdl.org/public.nsf/ENews/2003e78?opendocument

http://www.dallasobserver.com/1999-12-23/news/good-time-charlie/

Charlie told me lots of things about Decker and Bruner
and the mob. The Chicago Italian Mafia wanted to hire him.
They wanted to move him to Chicago. He knew all the
Dixie Mafia characters and had defended some at various
times. I think I recall him saying he had defended some of
the Chicago mob guys in Dallas too. But again, anyone can
go to any city in America and make some moves but it
doesn't mean they are a major force in that city.

He was behind the scenes considered the best
defense attorney to have ever come out of the state
of Texas. He knew where the cow ate the grass in
Dallas. I'll have to review the recording to see what all
we discussed about the Mafia . It's been over ten years
ago that I did this.

I don't mind sharing some blurbs for the sake of
a debate here. But posting an hour interview would be
problematic. Let me know if you want me to follow up
on it. If not I won't waste my time.

Respectfully,
Greg Jaynes
Anthony Marsh
2007-12-11 23:11:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Greg Jaynes
Post by Martin Shackelford
The FBI disagreed with you. They listed Campisi and Civello as Marcello
associates and Mafia.
Well, I know Marcello was in the Mafia. I read Mafia Kingfish.
But he's out of New Orleans. That's six hundred miles away!
(as Bruner put it)
So what? The New York Mafia sent representatives out to Las Vegas.
So tell us, exactly on what date did the first Mafioso turn up in Dallas?
Post by Greg Jaynes
Civello, yes I believe he was in the Mafia. But he wasn't running
things in Dallas. When I say big time presence, I mean like New York,
Boston, Chicago, Miami, New Orleans. There was no Italian Mafia
crime boss or family in Dallas like that. There was of course
organized
crime but I threaten to repeat myself here.
Post by Martin Shackelford
According to Jim Gatewood, the head of the Texas Mafia lived in Dallas.
Martin
I want to be fair here. Jim Gatewood is a nice guy and he's very
friendly.
I met him once at the Bonnie & Clyde festival in Gibsland, La. and
then
another time when I gave a presentation to the Deckers deputies
monthly
meeting near Dallas.
He's got a fun sense of adventure and storytelling. He's a good guy
so
this is in no way a disparagement of him personally. But if he says
something is so, then I'm gonna need to see chapter and verse where
he got it from. He is more or less a modern day dime novelist. He is
not a historian. He is a writer. Like Jim Marrs IMHO. So, using him
as
a source don't cut it.
And Martin. I know my postings here are abbreiviated and a little
thin.
That's because I'm not sitting on top of a stack of files like I used
to do
when posting on the news groups. I'm just remembering this stuff and
hoping not to embarass myself too badly with any mistakes. So, I'm
owning up to a little weakness in my arguments here. But don't be
fooled
by that. If it mattered, I could pull together a solid presentation.
Now that I have been honest about that, how strong of a point does it
" According to Jim Gatewood, the head of the Texas Mafia lived in
Dallas"
The first thing I'm tempted to do ask is, "Really? Did he say who it
was?"
Respectfully,
Greg Jaynes
Martin Shackelford
2007-12-12 19:04:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
He did. I included it in my post on the Gatewood books.

Martin
Post by Greg Jaynes
Post by Martin Shackelford
The FBI disagreed with you. They listed Campisi and Civello as Marcello
associates and Mafia.
Well, I know Marcello was in the Mafia. I read Mafia Kingfish.
But he's out of New Orleans. That's six hundred miles away!
(as Bruner put it)
Civello, yes I believe he was in the Mafia. But he wasn't running
things in Dallas. When I say big time presence, I mean like New York,
Boston, Chicago, Miami, New Orleans. There was no Italian Mafia
crime boss or family in Dallas like that. There was of course
organized
crime but I threaten to repeat myself here.
Post by Martin Shackelford
According to Jim Gatewood, the head of the Texas Mafia lived in Dallas.
Martin
I want to be fair here. Jim Gatewood is a nice guy and he's very
friendly.
I met him once at the Bonnie & Clyde festival in Gibsland, La. and
then
another time when I gave a presentation to the Deckers deputies
monthly
meeting near Dallas.
He's got a fun sense of adventure and storytelling. He's a good guy
so
this is in no way a disparagement of him personally. But if he says
something is so, then I'm gonna need to see chapter and verse where
he got it from. He is more or less a modern day dime novelist. He is
not a historian. He is a writer. Like Jim Marrs IMHO. So, using him
as
a source don't cut it.
And Martin. I know my postings here are abbreiviated and a little
thin.
That's because I'm not sitting on top of a stack of files like I used
to do
when posting on the news groups. I'm just remembering this stuff and
hoping not to embarass myself too badly with any mistakes. So, I'm
owning up to a little weakness in my arguments here. But don't be
fooled
by that. If it mattered, I could pull together a solid presentation.
Now that I have been honest about that, how strong of a point does it
" According to Jim Gatewood, the head of the Texas Mafia lived in
Dallas"
The first thing I'm tempted to do ask is, "Really? Did he say who it
was?"
Respectfully,
Greg Jaynes
Anthony Marsh
2007-12-11 01:26:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Martin Shackelford
The FBI disagreed with you. They listed Campisi and Civello as Marcello
associates and Mafia.
And both of them were caught at the Apalachin Meeting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apalachin_Meeting

Of course Greg thinks that was only a picnic.
Post by Martin Shackelford
According to Jim Gatewood, the head of the Texas Mafia lived in Dallas.
Martin
Post by Greg Jaynes
Post by steve
Post by Greg Jaynes
But at the end of the day, Dallas was never in the hands of the Italian
Mafia. It always bothers me when people think that Marcello ran anything
in Dallas. He did not.
not even the Italians that did operate there?
Steve,
I had an interesting set of discussions both with Madeliene Brown
and Fred Bruner who was Patsy Paschalls lawyer and the lawyer
for the doctor in Roe v. Wade.
Neither one thought much of the other. First I had asked Madeleine if
she knew Bruner. She did. She knew him well. She told me a story
about the time Bruner got into a fight with a prosecutor in the court
room
and got arrested for it. She told me how a bunch of people she knew
all thought it was funny and they threw in to pay his fine. There was
more
money collected than was the amount of the fine so they gave the
money
to Bruner. I asked her what she thought about him and she said he was
a
"mob lawyer". Well, I thought it was a great story in itself and did
not press
her as to what mob he was a lawyer for.
Bruner had been an assistant district attorney for Henry Wade until
1957.
That year he resigned from the DA's office and went into private
practise.
That same year he also bought a ranch in Sachse Texas. It's not far
from
Dallas. Once, I had the occaision to visit the ranch when I drove
Bruner out
there to check on it. Bruner also bought a nice house in Highland
Park which is a ritzy little town completely surrounded by the city of
Dallas.
On the same street Bruner lives on (still last I heard) lives Ross
Perot Jr. and
one street over, the former governor of Texas Bill Clemens. Suffice it
to say
you had to have some cash to be able to buy into the place. Oh, yeah
Jerry Jones lives there now too. So, where did an assistant DA come up
with the kind of cash to buy all this real estate? Maybe Madeleine was
right.
I do not know. But I was curious about it.
I asked Bruner what he thought about Madeleine. He gruffly answered in
a
dismissive way, "She was a whore". Please note I am just saying what
Bruner told me. I liked Madeleine very much. I asked him If he knew
anything
about her and LBJ. He said he wouldn't be surprised if she had not
spent some time with him but didn't give much credence to there being
a real
relationship. I didn't get the idea he knew for sure and took his
answer as
an off the cuff dismissal of the idea.
Then I asked Bruner about the story Madeleine had told me about him
getting
thrown into jail and his friends coming up with the fine money. He
laughed and
confirmed it and said after they gave him the extra money he thought
about
slugging Joe Tonnahill again as that is the ADA he got into the fight
with.
So , I knew Madeleine had real and useful information even if the
story about
the relationship with LBJ wasn't true or the story about a party at
Murchisons
house the night before the assassination. I do have to say that with
out a shred
of proof about the LBJ relationship story, I do believe her about it.
But I know
the Murchison party story could not be and is not true.
Oh yeah, this thread is about the mob in Dallas, right? Well, I asked
Bruner about
it specifically mentioning Carlos Marcello. Bruner exploded with an
indignant
answer saying "Marcello was out of New Orleans. That's six hundred
miles away!"
I forget off the top of my head as I write this what Marcello's
brothers name is but
Bruner told me he knew him. It was interesting stuff but nothing about
any
Italian Mafia specifically related to Dallas. So then I asked Bruner
if he knew
Beverly Oliver and he said no. I asked if he knew George McGann who
was
her husband and he did know him. I asked if he knew R.D. Matthews and
he said
he did. He told me not to mess around with Matthews. Not that I was of
course.
The reason I asked him was that since he knew McGann and McGann and
Matthews
were associated in I'll just say "whatever" cause I ain't got no
proof. But I will
point out that Beverly wrote about Matthews and McGann in her book.
Al Maddox told me that McGann was "a tough, tough man". I asked him
about
R.D. Matthews and Maddox knows him and said to tell him hello from Al
Maddox
next time I saw him. Though I have never met R.D. Matthews. I only
know about
him from Beverly's book, Tom Bowden, and the old Dallas deputies like
Maddox.
OBTW, I have all the stuff with Maddox recorded. I saw him in Dealey
plaza on the
22, and he didn't remember me right off. He is suffering from
alzheimers.
Anyway, the point is, there was in Dallas a confederated mob which
Beverly
refers to as "rounders" in her book. This group which became labeled
the Dixie
Mafia by Capt Macaghren also included people from the State Line mob
ala
the "Walking Tall" saga. But again, I reiterate that none of this had
anything to do
with any Italian Mafia. These were corn fed white boys, Benny Binion
types.
No one can say there was never anyone in Dallas who was in the Mafia.
And that is not what I am saying. But as far as any large scale or
dominant
presence, no. Bill Decker wouldn't have allowed it. Dallas was his
town.
He was the biggest bad ass there was around Dallas. May it please God
almighty that he didn't tell any of his deputies that someone was
"paid for".
At the arrest of James Walter Cherry for murdering Buddy Walthers,
Decker
asked Deputy Brock "Why didn't you kill him?". Brock answered that
there
had been children across the street watching.
It's kind of fun to remember up some of these old stories. Though the
way it goes with the overall subject of the assassination, I'm sure
you are
not convinced. But I never lost a minute of sleeping worrying about
convincing
anyone of anything. It's enough for me that I know. There is a lot I
don't know
but do know how to find out. It's just that it never ends, this trip
down the
rabbit hole.
Respectfully,
Greg Jaynes
Greg Jaynes
2007-12-11 23:12:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Martin Shackelford
The FBI disagreed with you. They listed Campisi and Civello as Marcello
associates and Mafia.
And both of them were caught at the Apalachin Meeting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apalachin_Meeting
Of course Greg thinks that was only a picnic.
It was just a picnic Tony. It was like a convention for wiseguys.
Nothing more.

Ok, just kidding.

So this is it? A meeting in NEW YORK, now Dallas had an
Italian Mafia? This associates them with the mafia. But it
does not associate any bigtime Italian Mafia presence in
Dallas. Face it, any such presence on the ground would
have left a footprint. Nothing has been demonstrated here
except associations.

Btw, somewhere in my files/boxes I have a letter from a
New York State Trooper who was involved in the roundup.
Just an aside there, no point.

Pray tell, what sort of organized crime do you and Martin
think these people ran in Dallas? What do you or Martin
know that Joe Campisi ever did but run a resturaunt?
Ronald McDonald runs resturaunts there and I'd venture
to say that he has killed more people there than Campisi has.
Something about food fried with polyunsaturated fats.

As far as Steve saying that Martin referred to the Dixie Mafia
as being all over the south, the term became applied to similar
type groups all over the south eventually. The term was coined
by former Dallas Police Captain Paul Macghren. It was first publicly
used when Jim Ewell wrote about it in the Dallas Times Herald or
the DMN whichever it was. I don't recall Macghren mentioning any
Itailian Mafia. Do any of you?

The plain fact is; as I have said, there was no big time Italian Mafia
presence in Dallas. I'm sorry if y'all need for there to have been
for some pet theory or the other but there just wasn't.

Back to 1947 when the Chicago mob tried to corrupt Dallas Sheriff
Guthrie, I don't remember the guy's name off the top of my head but
he told Guthrie that they had considered whacking the Dallas crime
bosses of the day, to wit; Benny Benion and Herbie Nobels so
they could come in and take over their policy wheel operations.
They didn't do it because it would have been to bold a move
and they would not have gotten away with it.

Dallas had long had it's own entrenched organized crime that
wasn't Itailian Mafia. These guys also asked Guthrie if he could
help them with Decker who was then only a deputy.

I don't know exactly when it ended but one of the reasons
there may have never been big time Italian Mafia organizations
in Dallas or even all of Texas for that matter is that Texas had
a three strikes law. It wasn't like California's three strikes where
you got life in prison. It was three strikes and you got life
in the electric chair. Ray Hamilton who ran with Clyde Barrow
couldn't believe it when he was last arrested and one of the
guards told him he would go to the chair if convicted for robbery.
He asked, "Why would they put me in the chair? I never killed
anybody?"

Respectfully,
Greg Jaynes
Martin Shackelford
2007-12-12 19:06:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
If Dallas sent a representative to Apalachin, that indicates there was a
serious Mafia
presence in Dallas, Greg. Or are you suggesting that, of all the cities that
sent reps to
Apalachin, only Dallas had no serious Mafia presence?

Martin
Post by Greg Jaynes
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Martin Shackelford
The FBI disagreed with you. They listed Campisi and Civello as Marcello
associates and Mafia.
And both of them were caught at the Apalachin Meeting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apalachin_Meeting
Of course Greg thinks that was only a picnic.
It was just a picnic Tony. It was like a convention for wiseguys.
Nothing more.
Ok, just kidding.
So this is it? A meeting in NEW YORK, now Dallas had an
Italian Mafia? This associates them with the mafia. But it
does not associate any bigtime Italian Mafia presence in
Dallas. Face it, any such presence on the ground would
have left a footprint. Nothing has been demonstrated here
except associations.
Btw, somewhere in my files/boxes I have a letter from a
New York State Trooper who was involved in the roundup.
Just an aside there, no point.
Pray tell, what sort of organized crime do you and Martin
think these people ran in Dallas? What do you or Martin
know that Joe Campisi ever did but run a resturaunt?
Ronald McDonald runs resturaunts there and I'd venture
to say that he has killed more people there than Campisi has.
Something about food fried with polyunsaturated fats.
As far as Steve saying that Martin referred to the Dixie Mafia
as being all over the south, the term became applied to similar
type groups all over the south eventually. The term was coined
by former Dallas Police Captain Paul Macghren. It was first publicly
used when Jim Ewell wrote about it in the Dallas Times Herald or
the DMN whichever it was. I don't recall Macghren mentioning any
Itailian Mafia. Do any of you?
The plain fact is; as I have said, there was no big time Italian Mafia
presence in Dallas. I'm sorry if y'all need for there to have been
for some pet theory or the other but there just wasn't.
Back to 1947 when the Chicago mob tried to corrupt Dallas Sheriff
Guthrie, I don't remember the guy's name off the top of my head but
he told Guthrie that they had considered whacking the Dallas crime
bosses of the day, to wit; Benny Benion and Herbie Nobels so
they could come in and take over their policy wheel operations.
They didn't do it because it would have been to bold a move
and they would not have gotten away with it.
Dallas had long had it's own entrenched organized crime that
wasn't Itailian Mafia. These guys also asked Guthrie if he could
help them with Decker who was then only a deputy.
I don't know exactly when it ended but one of the reasons
there may have never been big time Italian Mafia organizations
in Dallas or even all of Texas for that matter is that Texas had
a three strikes law. It wasn't like California's three strikes where
you got life in prison. It was three strikes and you got life
in the electric chair. Ray Hamilton who ran with Clyde Barrow
couldn't believe it when he was last arrested and one of the
guards told him he would go to the chair if convicted for robbery.
He asked, "Why would they put me in the chair? I never killed
anybody?"
Respectfully,
Greg Jaynes
Greg Jaynes
2007-12-13 05:30:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Martin Shackelford
If Dallas sent a representative to Apalachin, that indicates there was a
serious Mafia
presence in Dallas, Greg. Or are you suggesting that, of all the cities that
sent reps to
Apalachin, only Dallas had no serious Mafia presence?
Martin
No Martin. I'm not making any reference to other cities.
I'm just saying that Dallas had no big time Italian Mafia
presence. Organized crime in Dallas was mainly home
grown.

Respectfully,
Greg Jaynes
steve
2007-12-13 20:21:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Greg Jaynes
No Martin. I'm not making any reference to other cities.
I'm just saying that Dallas had no big time Italian Mafia
presence. Organized crime in Dallas was mainly home
grown.
i would just like for you to explain how Civello was at a meeting
with all the top people in NY? the issue isnt who runs the place in my
opinion, its like you said, the authorities "run" the place. but that
does not mean there wasnt a major mob presence. how do you define the
term "big time italian mafia presence"? would a person invited to
Appalachian in your opinion be considered a big time italian mafioso?
Anthony Marsh
2007-12-13 20:24:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Greg Jaynes
Post by Martin Shackelford
If Dallas sent a representative to Apalachin, that indicates there was a
serious Mafia
presence in Dallas, Greg. Or are you suggesting that, of all the cities that
sent reps to
Apalachin, only Dallas had no serious Mafia presence?
Martin
No Martin. I'm not making any reference to other cities.
I'm just saying that Dallas had no big time Italian Mafia
presence. Organized crime in Dallas was mainly home
grown.
So, you know a lot about the Dallas Mafia? Were Civello and Campisi both
Dallas born and raised? Do you deny that they were Marcello associates?


http://books.google.com/books?id=YOWNw_rmTKYC&pg=PA279&lpg=PA279&dq=civello+mafia+dallas&source=web&ots=j10NvQkzyH&sig=ug3Y4JaY3_QOR6B1euVmNhlD4yY
Post by Greg Jaynes
Respectfully,
Greg Jaynes
Anthony Marsh
2007-12-13 05:34:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Greg Jaynes
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Martin Shackelford
The FBI disagreed with you. They listed Campisi and Civello as Marcello
associates and Mafia.
And both of them were caught at the Apalachin Meeting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apalachin_Meeting
Of course Greg thinks that was only a picnic.
It was just a picnic Tony. It was like a convention for wiseguys.
Nothing more.
Ok, just kidding.
So this is it? A meeting in NEW YORK, now Dallas had an
Italian Mafia? This associates them with the mafia. But it
If think technically the Mafia means only Italian. I think the Sicilians
are Black Hand. Chinese are Tong. Japanese are Yakuza.
Dallas had Chicago Mafia. Las Vegas had New York Mafia.
I don't remember if it was the Council which determined the rules about
which families could branch out where.
Post by Greg Jaynes
does not associate any bigtime Italian Mafia presence in
Marcello's not big time?
Post by Greg Jaynes
have left a footprint. Nothing has been demonstrated here
except associations.
Btw, somewhere in my files/boxes I have a letter from a
New York State Trooper who was involved in the roundup.
Just an aside there, no point.
Pray tell, what sort of organized crime do you and Martin
think these people ran in Dallas? What do you or Martin
know that Joe Campisi ever did but run a resturaunt?
Prostitution, drugs, loan sharking, protection rackets, corruption,
gambling.
Post by Greg Jaynes
Ronald McDonald runs resturaunts there and I'd venture
to say that he has killed more people there than Campisi has.
I don't know that Campisi ever killed anyone. It might have been done by
soldiers.
Post by Greg Jaynes
Something about food fried with polyunsaturated fats.
As far as Steve saying that Martin referred to the Dixie Mafia
as being all over the south, the term became applied to similar
type groups all over the south eventually. The term was coined
by former Dallas Police Captain Paul Macghren. It was first publicly
used when Jim Ewell wrote about it in the Dallas Times Herald or
the DMN whichever it was. I don't recall Macghren mentioning any
Itailian Mafia. Do any of you?
Mafia are Italian. The parallel is to the Dixiecrats who were Democrats,
but with a Southern twist.
Post by Greg Jaynes
The plain fact is; as I have said, there was no big time Italian Mafia
presence in Dallas. I'm sorry if y'all need for there to have been
for some pet theory or the other but there just wasn't.
I certainly don't think that Giancana and Trafficante would resettle there.
Post by Greg Jaynes
Back to 1947 when the Chicago mob tried to corrupt Dallas Sheriff
Guthrie, I don't remember the guy's name off the top of my head but
he told Guthrie that they had considered whacking the Dallas crime
bosses of the day, to wit; Benny Benion and Herbie Nobels so
they could come in and take over their policy wheel operations.
They didn't do it because it would have been to bold a move
and they would not have gotten away with it.
Dallas had long had it's own entrenched organized crime that
wasn't Itailian Mafia. These guys also asked Guthrie if he could
help them with Decker who was then only a deputy.
I don't know exactly when it ended but one of the reasons
there may have never been big time Italian Mafia organizations
in Dallas or even all of Texas for that matter is that Texas had
a three strikes law. It wasn't like California's three strikes where
you got life in prison. It was three strikes and you got life
in the electric chair. Ray Hamilton who ran with Clyde Barrow
couldn't believe it when he was last arrested and one of the
guards told him he would go to the chair if convicted for robbery.
He asked, "Why would they put me in the chair? I never killed
anybody?"
Respectfully,
Greg Jaynes
steve
2007-12-13 20:21:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Greg Jaynes
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Martin Shackelford
The FBI disagreed with you. They listed Campisi and Civello as Marcello
associates and Mafia.
And both of them were caught at the Apalachin Meeting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apalachin_Meeting
Of course Greg thinks that was only a picnic.
It was just a picnic Tony. It was like a convention for wiseguys.
Nothing more.
Ok, just kidding.
So this is it? A meeting in NEW YORK, now Dallas had an
Italian Mafia? This associates them with the mafia. But it
If think technically the Mafia means only Italian. I think the Sicilians
are Black Hand. Chinese are Tong. Japanese are Yakuza.
Dallas had Chicago Mafia. Las Vegas had New York Mafia.
I don't remember if it was the Council which determined the rules about
which families could branch out where.
Post by Greg Jaynes
does not associate any bigtime Italian Mafia presence in
Marcello's not big time?
Post by Greg Jaynes
have left a footprint. Nothing has been demonstrated here
except associations.
Btw, somewhere in my files/boxes I have a letter from a
New York State Trooper who was involved in the roundup.
Just an aside there, no point.
Pray tell, what sort of organized crime do you and Martin
think these people ran in Dallas? What do you or Martin
know that Joe Campisi ever did but run a resturaunt?
Prostitution, drugs, loan sharking, protection rackets, corruption,
gambling.
you have a source for this? i dont recall ever seeing a source for
these type of allegations on Campisi. just asking.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Greg Jaynes
Ronald McDonald runs resturaunts there and I'd venture
to say that he has killed more people there than Campisi has.
I don't know that Campisi ever killed anyone. It might have been done by
soldiers.
Post by Greg Jaynes
Something about food fried with polyunsaturated fats.
As far as Steve saying that Martin referred to the Dixie Mafia
as being all over the south, the term became applied to similar
type groups all over the south eventually. The term was coined
by former Dallas Police Captain Paul Macghren. It was first publicly
used when Jim Ewell wrote about it in the Dallas Times Herald or
the DMN whichever it was. I don't recall Macghren mentioning any
Itailian Mafia. Do any of you?
Mafia are Italian. The parallel is to the Dixiecrats who were Democrats,
but with a Southern twist.
Post by Greg Jaynes
The plain fact is; as I have said, there was no big time Italian Mafia
presence in Dallas. I'm sorry if y'all need for there to have been
for some pet theory or the other but there just wasn't.
I certainly don't think that Giancana and Trafficante would resettle there.
Post by Greg Jaynes
Back to 1947 when the Chicago mob tried to corrupt Dallas Sheriff
Guthrie, I don't remember the guy's name off the top of my head but
he told Guthrie that they had considered whacking the Dallas crime
bosses of the day, to wit; Benny Benion and Herbie Nobels so
they could come in and take over their policy wheel operations.
They didn't do it because it would have been to bold a move
and they would not have gotten away with it.
Dallas had long had it's own entrenched organized crime that
wasn't Itailian Mafia. These guys also asked Guthrie if he could
help them with Decker who was then only a deputy.
I don't know exactly when it ended but one of the reasons
there may have never been big time Italian Mafia organizations
in Dallas or even all of Texas for that matter is that Texas had
a three strikes law. It wasn't like California's three strikes where
you got life in prison. It was three strikes and you got life
in the electric chair. Ray Hamilton who ran with Clyde Barrow
couldn't believe it when he was last arrested and one of the
guards told him he would go to the chair if convicted for robbery.
He asked, "Why would they put me in the chair? I never killed
anybody?"
Respectfully,
Greg Jaynes- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Anthony Marsh
2007-12-14 05:39:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by steve
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Greg Jaynes
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Martin Shackelford
The FBI disagreed with you. They listed Campisi and Civello as Marcello
associates and Mafia.
And both of them were caught at the Apalachin Meeting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apalachin_Meeting
Of course Greg thinks that was only a picnic.
It was just a picnic Tony. It was like a convention for wiseguys.
Nothing more.
Ok, just kidding.
So this is it? A meeting in NEW YORK, now Dallas had an
Italian Mafia? This associates them with the mafia. But it
If think technically the Mafia means only Italian. I think the Sicilians
are Black Hand. Chinese are Tong. Japanese are Yakuza.
Dallas had Chicago Mafia. Las Vegas had New York Mafia.
I don't remember if it was the Council which determined the rules about
which families could branch out where.
Post by Greg Jaynes
does not associate any bigtime Italian Mafia presence in
Marcello's not big time?
Post by Greg Jaynes
have left a footprint. Nothing has been demonstrated here
except associations.
Btw, somewhere in my files/boxes I have a letter from a
New York State Trooper who was involved in the roundup.
Just an aside there, no point.
Pray tell, what sort of organized crime do you and Martin
think these people ran in Dallas? What do you or Martin
know that Joe Campisi ever did but run a resturaunt?
Prostitution, drugs, loan sharking, protection rackets, corruption,
gambling.
you have a source for this? i dont recall ever seeing a source for
these type of allegations on Campisi. just asking.
http://hum.uchicago.edu/~jagoldsm/Papers/JFK/4_Mafia.pdf
Post by steve
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Greg Jaynes
Ronald McDonald runs resturaunts there and I'd venture
to say that he has killed more people there than Campisi has.
I don't know that Campisi ever killed anyone. It might have been done by
soldiers.
Post by Greg Jaynes
Something about food fried with polyunsaturated fats.
As far as Steve saying that Martin referred to the Dixie Mafia
as being all over the south, the term became applied to similar
type groups all over the south eventually. The term was coined
by former Dallas Police Captain Paul Macghren. It was first publicly
used when Jim Ewell wrote about it in the Dallas Times Herald or
the DMN whichever it was. I don't recall Macghren mentioning any
Itailian Mafia. Do any of you?
Mafia are Italian. The parallel is to the Dixiecrats who were Democrats,
but with a Southern twist.
Post by Greg Jaynes
The plain fact is; as I have said, there was no big time Italian Mafia
presence in Dallas. I'm sorry if y'all need for there to have been
for some pet theory or the other but there just wasn't.
I certainly don't think that Giancana and Trafficante would resettle there.
Post by Greg Jaynes
Back to 1947 when the Chicago mob tried to corrupt Dallas Sheriff
Guthrie, I don't remember the guy's name off the top of my head but
he told Guthrie that they had considered whacking the Dallas crime
bosses of the day, to wit; Benny Benion and Herbie Nobels so
they could come in and take over their policy wheel operations.
They didn't do it because it would have been to bold a move
and they would not have gotten away with it.
Dallas had long had it's own entrenched organized crime that
wasn't Itailian Mafia. These guys also asked Guthrie if he could
help them with Decker who was then only a deputy.
I don't know exactly when it ended but one of the reasons
there may have never been big time Italian Mafia organizations
in Dallas or even all of Texas for that matter is that Texas had
a three strikes law. It wasn't like California's three strikes where
you got life in prison. It was three strikes and you got life
in the electric chair. Ray Hamilton who ran with Clyde Barrow
couldn't believe it when he was last arrested and one of the
guards told him he would go to the chair if convicted for robbery.
He asked, "Why would they put me in the chair? I never killed
anybody?"
Respectfully,
Greg Jaynes- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
steve
2007-12-11 02:34:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Martin Shackelford
The FBI disagreed with you. They listed Campisi and Civello as Marcello
associates and Mafia.
According to Jim Gatewood, the head of the Texas Mafia lived in Dallas.
Martin
another thing Shack, wasnt Civello at the Appalachian meeting? but
this guy claims he wasnt mob?
Martin Shackelford
2007-12-12 19:05:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Right, he was at Apalachin.

Martin
Post by steve
Post by Martin Shackelford
The FBI disagreed with you. They listed Campisi and Civello as Marcello
associates and Mafia.
According to Jim Gatewood, the head of the Texas Mafia lived in Dallas.
Martin
another thing Shack, wasnt Civello at the Appalachian meeting? but
this guy claims he wasnt mob?
curtjester1
2007-12-07 19:29:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Greg Jaynes
Post by curtjester1
Post by SolFrankRosen
Carlos Marcello, hmmmm... I keep coming back to that name over and
over
In the biography "Robert Kennedy" by Evan Thomas, Thomas cites a
conversation between Dick Goodwin and Bobby in 1967 in which Bobby
notes that he believed JFK was killed by "the guy from New Orleans," -
"meaning Marcello" - writes Thomas
"Carlos Marcello, the don of New Orleans...." writes Thomas
"his (Bobby's) suspicions may have been fed by something told to him
by Walter Sheridan, who had spent months looking into Marcello and his
connections while working on the Garrison story. Sheridan, who,
according to his wife, refused to talk about JFK's assassination until
just before he died in 1996. Then he shocked his son, Walter Jr., by
stating that he was "convinced" that President Kennedy had been killed
by a conspiracy."
Granted, I am entertained by Oliver Stone's film, albeit rife with
flaws, I don't recall Marcello being mentioned in the film.
Interesting for him to have been the N.O. don. Excuse me for using
Stone's words of Dean Andrews, but we are led, quite blindly into the
supposition that Clay Shaw/Bertrand was the big "enchillada".
Sheridan (and RFK) believed Garrison to be a fraud and Sheridan even
had dialoque with a defector from the Garrison camp to buttress this
belief. Could someone remind me of who that defector was?
My point is that even though Garrison may have been a questionable guy
himself, maybe New Orleans was indeed the hub of the "operation". Why
didn't Garrison go after Carlos Marcello instead of Clay?
Anyone out there got any ideas to share on this?
Garrison was either tied into the Mob or was afraid of it, hence he didn't
go after Mob figureheads. Marcello had a vast area of wealth mostly in
Louisiana but Dallas as well. The Mobsters in Dallas, Civello and Campisi
were under Marcello. Read The Mafia Kingfish by John Davis for all the
Marcello scoop. Very poignant and entertaining.
CJ- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Mafia Kingfish was interesting for sure. However, I do not think there has
ever been any big time Italian Mafia presence in Dallas.
Will Wilson was the District Attorney before Henry Wade, he helped head
off a move by Chicago mobsters to move into Dallas by setting them up and
recording their conversations. The mobsters tried to corrupt Sheriff Steve
Guthrie. (Guthrie was known as "the boy Sheriff". Bill Decker defeated him
in 1948 to take the job of Dallas County Sheriff) Guthrie called in Wilson
and the Texas Rangers. It's an interesting story, I want to tell it
someday. The Dallas Police were left out of the loop because the Chicago
mob had made some inroads with bribery which all got brought out into the
open at this time.
Wilson got a lot of press out of it and wound up being Texas Attorney
General. At that post, he went after the open gambling operations in
Galveston. There was no Mafia in Galveston either. But there were Italians
who ran things. They just were not in the Mafia. These Italians turned
away the mob as they were turned away in Dallas.
Back to Dallas, what mobsters there were; were gamblers mostly . There
were truck hijackings and jewery store robberies too. But they weren't the
Italian Mafia. Read Beverly Olivers book for a realistic look at Dallas
organized crime. That's right, a LNer referring you to Beverly Olivers
book. There are some real insights in her story. Plus in case any one is
interested, I know for a fact from different sources about some things she
discusses like the murder of George Fuqua and the murder of Stanley
"Creeper" Cook. Fuqua is an obscure name. No reason for her to lie about
it cause no one ever heard of the guy. (Except for me that is). Dallas
Police captain Paul Macaghren labeled the Dallas crime confederation, the
Dixie Mafia. Beverlys husband George McGann was one of the top guys in it.
Hey, has anyone ever heard the story that McGann killed Buford Pussers
wife? Y'all probably think Bufford Pusser walked tall and stood up for
the law don't you? I know, it sounds like it's gonna get deep right about
now but I'm not going to do it here so relax.
I don't mean to say there never was anyone who was mobbed up in Dallas,
just that the Italian Mafia never ran things in Dallas. That includes
Marcello, Civillo, Campisi or any of 'em. I don't even think Campisi was a
criminal at all. I'm sure he knew everyone, but he was just a resturaunt
owner.
Bill Decker had the final word on what was allowed in Dallas. I like
talking to his old time deputies. They'll tell you about him. They're full
of shit a lot of the time cause they like to talk it up as can be read in
the bullshit book Decker. But they also know the real story and the real
gangsters of Dallas' past.
Clint Murchison did business with Carlos Marcello. These deals were for
cash financing. Murchison invented the concept of "Other Peoples Money"
Marcello was a good source of ready cash. Murchison just went around
starting up cash cows and putting someone in charge of running them and
paying off the debts. He owned everything and somebody else always did all
the work. It worked great his whole life. It finally caight up with
Murchisons son Clint Jr. and as a result Jr. had to sell the Dallas
Cowboys but thats another story. The next time you go into a Tony Romas
and order some baby back ribs savor the thought of it being part of
Murchisons legacy.
There was big money in Dallas,.back when Big money really seperated the
real rich from the real poor. Dallas had the old rich families who thought
they were too good for the newly super rich oil field trash like
Murchison, Sid Richardson, H.L. Hunt who all traded off at one time or the
other being the richest men on earth.
But at the end of the day, Dallas was never in the hands of the Italian
Mafia. It always bothers me when people think that Marcello ran anything
in Dallas. He did not.
Respectfully,
Greg Jaynes- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I really can't get into my books for reference as I am on the road,
but the fact that Guthrie exposed the Mob influence from Chicago by
recording their bribes, would give some to rise that they did succeed
against a Curry, Wade, and Decker. These people had a free reign in
establishments like Ruby's Carousel, with free drinking privileges.
Also, take a read into Farewell America by James Hepburn, and Contract
on America by David Scheim to get the feel of Decker and the gang
there. And try looking into Marcello's holdings in Dallas. And Ruby
was at Campisi's the night prior to the assassination with a mobtie
from Chicago, Mayer (sp?) which Beverly Oliver was present and was so
nice enough to show their behaviors there. And can't we get a little
suspicious about the Secret Service at Pat Kirkwood's and the
EverClear there to get those guys stoned out of their minds? You at
first glance seem like someone who is a tiptoeing apologist than one
who wants to get his feet dirty with some research. I especially
would like ones to look into the Marcello-Ruby-Ferrie connections that
Davis brought out in Mafia Kingfish with their phone calls and actions
also. It just so happens Ruby's last recorded call matches up with one
on Ferrie's jaunting tour through Texas after the assassination.

CJ
Martin Shackelford
2007-12-09 01:28:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
According to an author with Dallas police sources, Jim Gatewood, who wrote
bios of Sheriff Decker and Capt. Will Fritz, there was definitely a Mafia
presence in Dallas. In fact, the top Mafia guy in Texas lived in Dallas,
as did several associates of Carlos Marcello. The Guthrie incident is told
in detail in the Decker bio. The police sources are quite clear that
Civello and Campisi were Mafia, and associates of Marcello. That was also
the conclusion of an FBI summary on Dallas organized crime. I don't
consider Beverly Oliver an objective source on the subject--she married
into the Mob. Given the claims you have made in this post, you don't seem
to be a credible source on the subject, Greg.

Martin
Post by Greg Jaynes
Post by curtjester1
Post by SolFrankRosen
Carlos Marcello, hmmmm... I keep coming back to that name over and
over
In the biography "Robert Kennedy" by Evan Thomas, Thomas cites a
conversation between Dick Goodwin and Bobby in 1967 in which Bobby
notes that he believed JFK was killed by "the guy from New Orleans," -
"meaning Marcello" - writes Thomas
"Carlos Marcello, the don of New Orleans...." writes Thomas
"his (Bobby's) suspicions may have been fed by something told to him
by Walter Sheridan, who had spent months looking into Marcello and his
connections while working on the Garrison story. Sheridan, who,
according to his wife, refused to talk about JFK's assassination until
just before he died in 1996. Then he shocked his son, Walter Jr., by
stating that he was "convinced" that President Kennedy had been killed
by a conspiracy."
Granted, I am entertained by Oliver Stone's film, albeit rife with
flaws, I don't recall Marcello being mentioned in the film.
Interesting for him to have been the N.O. don. Excuse me for using
Stone's words of Dean Andrews, but we are led, quite blindly into the
supposition that Clay Shaw/Bertrand was the big "enchillada".
Sheridan (and RFK) believed Garrison to be a fraud and Sheridan even
had dialoque with a defector from the Garrison camp to buttress this
belief. Could someone remind me of who that defector was?
My point is that even though Garrison may have been a questionable guy
himself, maybe New Orleans was indeed the hub of the "operation". Why
didn't Garrison go after Carlos Marcello instead of Clay?
Anyone out there got any ideas to share on this?
Garrison was either tied into the Mob or was afraid of it, hence he didn't
go after Mob figureheads. Marcello had a vast area of wealth mostly in
Louisiana but Dallas as well. The Mobsters in Dallas, Civello and Campisi
were under Marcello. Read The Mafia Kingfish by John Davis for all the
Marcello scoop. Very poignant and entertaining.
CJ- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Mafia Kingfish was interesting for sure. However, I do not think there has
ever been any big time Italian Mafia presence in Dallas.
Will Wilson was the District Attorney before Henry Wade, he helped head
off a move by Chicago mobsters to move into Dallas by setting them up and
recording their conversations. The mobsters tried to corrupt Sheriff Steve
Guthrie. (Guthrie was known as "the boy Sheriff". Bill Decker defeated him
in 1948 to take the job of Dallas County Sheriff) Guthrie called in Wilson
and the Texas Rangers. It's an interesting story, I want to tell it
someday. The Dallas Police were left out of the loop because the Chicago
mob had made some inroads with bribery which all got brought out into the
open at this time.
Wilson got a lot of press out of it and wound up being Texas Attorney
General. At that post, he went after the open gambling operations in
Galveston. There was no Mafia in Galveston either. But there were Italians
who ran things. They just were not in the Mafia. These Italians turned
away the mob as they were turned away in Dallas.
Back to Dallas, what mobsters there were; were gamblers mostly . There
were truck hijackings and jewery store robberies too. But they weren't the
Italian Mafia. Read Beverly Olivers book for a realistic look at Dallas
organized crime. That's right, a LNer referring you to Beverly Olivers
book. There are some real insights in her story. Plus in case any one is
interested, I know for a fact from different sources about some things she
discusses like the murder of George Fuqua and the murder of Stanley
"Creeper" Cook. Fuqua is an obscure name. No reason for her to lie about
it cause no one ever heard of the guy. (Except for me that is). Dallas
Police captain Paul Macaghren labeled the Dallas crime confederation, the
Dixie Mafia. Beverlys husband George McGann was one of the top guys in it.
Hey, has anyone ever heard the story that McGann killed Buford Pussers
wife? Y'all probably think Bufford Pusser walked tall and stood up for
the law don't you? I know, it sounds like it's gonna get deep right about
now but I'm not going to do it here so relax.
I don't mean to say there never was anyone who was mobbed up in Dallas,
just that the Italian Mafia never ran things in Dallas. That includes
Marcello, Civillo, Campisi or any of 'em. I don't even think Campisi was a
criminal at all. I'm sure he knew everyone, but he was just a resturaunt
owner.
Bill Decker had the final word on what was allowed in Dallas. I like
talking to his old time deputies. They'll tell you about him. They're full
of shit a lot of the time cause they like to talk it up as can be read in
the bullshit book Decker. But they also know the real story and the real
gangsters of Dallas' past.
Clint Murchison did business with Carlos Marcello. These deals were for
cash financing. Murchison invented the concept of "Other Peoples Money"
Marcello was a good source of ready cash. Murchison just went around
starting up cash cows and putting someone in charge of running them and
paying off the debts. He owned everything and somebody else always did all
the work. It worked great his whole life. It finally caight up with
Murchisons son Clint Jr. and as a result Jr. had to sell the Dallas
Cowboys but thats another story. The next time you go into a Tony Romas
and order some baby back ribs savor the thought of it being part of
Murchisons legacy.
There was big money in Dallas,.back when Big money really seperated the
real rich from the real poor. Dallas had the old rich families who thought
they were too good for the newly super rich oil field trash like
Murchison, Sid Richardson, H.L. Hunt who all traded off at one time or the
other being the richest men on earth.
But at the end of the day, Dallas was never in the hands of the Italian
Mafia. It always bothers me when people think that Marcello ran anything
in Dallas. He did not.
Respectfully,
Greg Jaynes
Greg Jaynes
2007-12-10 22:33:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Martin Shackelford
bios of Sheriff Decker and Capt. Will Fritz, there was definitely a Mafia
presence in Dallas. In fact, the top Mafia guy in Texas lived in Dallas,
as did several associates of Carlos Marcello. The Guthrie incident is told
in detail in the Decker bio. The police sources are quite clear that
Civello and Campisi were Mafia, and associates of Marcello. That was also
the conclusion of an FBI summary on Dallas organized crime. I don't
consider Beverly Oliver an objective source on the subject--she married
into the Mob. Given the claims you have made in this post, you don't seem
to be a credible source on the subject,Greg.
Martin
Hello Martin and thanks for the affirmation such as it isn't.

Maybe you think Gatewood is a better source. Ok, let's see.

Just a couple of points on his book Decker for you to ponder,
He claimed that Al Maddox led the charge into a house in East
Dallas to capture the thugs who murdered some deputies in
the river bottoms by kicking in the door and going in after them.

FACT: Maddox was not even present at the arrest.
FACT: Maddox could not have kicked in any door because
he was at home re-cooperating from a self inflicted gunshot wound
in his foot which occurred during the incident when his partner
was killed a couple weeks prior.

Then the stuff about Decker carrying a machine gun was a crock.
FACT: Decker didn't carry a gun at all.

Mr. Gatewood is not reporting history. He is hyping it to sell books.
It's a shame too because Decker rates a real historical treatment.

You wrote: "there was definitely a Mafia presence in Dallas".
You present this as if you are contradicting me.

Here is what I posted:

"No one can say there was never anyone in Dallas who was in the Mafia.
And that is not what I am saying. But as far as any large scale or
dominant
presence, no. "

So far, it looks like you're swinging at air. You have not
demonstrated
any "large scale or dominant presence" of the Mafia.

BTW, How many Italian Mafiosos does Gatewood mention in Decker?
And what were their big moves? How many Mafiosos have been arrested
and sent to the pen for any involvement in crimes in Dallas? Do you
think
these people are just too good to get caught?

As far as you claiming Beverly is not objective because she married
into the mob ...... well, why not? Is there something limiting to
her knowledge for being married in as opposed to someone else
who might have just been along for the ride? Sure she married into
the mob. It was the Dixie Mafia she married into. Not the Italian
Mafia.
I'm sure Jim Ewell who was a Dallas newsman who first wrote the
phrase "Dixie Mafia" is fairly objective.

Do you also want to claim the State Line mob in Tennessee were
Itailian Mafia? Charles Towhead White was the bigshot in that group.
He came and went in Dallas and was once arrested in Dallas by Maddox.
He currently resides in the Angola State Prison Farm in Louisiana.
He was part of the "Dixie Mafia". These are the type of mobsters
Dallas had.

I'm saying there was no big time Italian Mafia presence in Dallas.
Let's
limit it to a point in time up thru the 1960's.

You say there was.

Prove it.

Respectfully,
Greg Jaynes
Anthony Marsh
2007-12-11 01:25:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Greg Jaynes
Post by Martin Shackelford
bios of Sheriff Decker and Capt. Will Fritz, there was definitely a Mafia
presence in Dallas. In fact, the top Mafia guy in Texas lived in Dallas,
as did several associates of Carlos Marcello. The Guthrie incident is told
in detail in the Decker bio. The police sources are quite clear that
Civello and Campisi were Mafia, and associates of Marcello. That was also
the conclusion of an FBI summary on Dallas organized crime. I don't
consider Beverly Oliver an objective source on the subject--she married
into the Mob. Given the claims you have made in this post, you don't seem
to be a credible source on the subject,Greg.
Martin
Hello Martin and thanks for the affirmation such as it isn't.
Maybe you think Gatewood is a better source. Ok, let's see.
Just a couple of points on his book Decker for you to ponder,
He claimed that Al Maddox led the charge into a house in East
Dallas to capture the thugs who murdered some deputies in
the river bottoms by kicking in the door and going in after them.
FACT: Maddox was not even present at the arrest.
FACT: Maddox could not have kicked in any door because
he was at home re-cooperating from a self inflicted gunshot wound
in his foot which occurred during the incident when his partner
was killed a couple weeks prior.
Then the stuff about Decker carrying a machine gun was a crock.
FACT: Decker didn't carry a gun at all.
Mr. Gatewood is not reporting history. He is hyping it to sell books.
It's a shame too because Decker rates a real historical treatment.
You wrote: "there was definitely a Mafia presence in Dallas".
You present this as if you are contradicting me.
"No one can say there was never anyone in Dallas who was in the Mafia.
And that is not what I am saying. But as far as any large scale or
dominant
presence, no. "
So far, it looks like you're swinging at air. You have not
demonstrated
any "large scale or dominant presence" of the Mafia.
BTW, How many Italian Mafiosos does Gatewood mention in Decker?
And what were their big moves? How many Mafiosos have been arrested
and sent to the pen for any involvement in crimes in Dallas? Do you
think
these people are just too good to get caught?
As far as you claiming Beverly is not objective because she married
into the mob ...... well, why not? Is there something limiting to
her knowledge for being married in as opposed to someone else
who might have just been along for the ride? Sure she married into
the mob. It was the Dixie Mafia she married into. Not the Italian
Mafia.
I'm sure Jim Ewell who was a Dallas newsman who first wrote the
phrase "Dixie Mafia" is fairly objective.
Do you also want to claim the State Line mob in Tennessee were
Itailian Mafia? Charles Towhead White was the bigshot in that group.
He came and went in Dallas and was once arrested in Dallas by Maddox.
He currently resides in the Angola State Prison Farm in Louisiana.
He was part of the "Dixie Mafia". These are the type of mobsters
Dallas had.
Do you want to also claim that Apalachin was just a picnic?
Civello and Campisi were caught there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apalachin_Meeting

I know, I know, you are a charter member of Colombo's Italian-American
Civil Right League and deny that any such thing as the Mafia ever existed.
Post by Greg Jaynes
I'm saying there was no big time Italian Mafia presence in Dallas.
Let's
limit it to a point in time up thru the 1960's.
You say there was.
Prove it.
Respectfully,
Greg Jaynes
steve
2007-12-11 02:41:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Greg Jaynes
Post by Martin Shackelford
bios of Sheriff Decker and Capt. Will Fritz, there was definitely a Mafia
presence in Dallas. In fact, the top Mafia guy in Texas lived in Dallas,
as did several associates of Carlos Marcello. The Guthrie incident is told
in detail in the Decker bio. The police sources are quite clear that
Civello and Campisi were Mafia, and associates of Marcello. That was also
the conclusion of an FBI summary on Dallas organized crime. I don't
consider Beverly Oliver an objective source on the subject--she married
into the Mob. Given the claims you have made in this post, you don't seem
to be a credible source on the subject,Greg.
Martin
Hello Martin and thanks for the affirmation such as it isn't.
Maybe you think Gatewood is a better source. Ok, let's see.
Just a couple of points on his book Decker for you to ponder,
He claimed that Al Maddox led the charge into a house in East
Dallas to capture the thugs who murdered some deputies in
the river bottoms by kicking in the door and going in after them.
FACT: Maddox was not even present at the arrest.
FACT: Maddox could not have kicked in any door because
he was at home re-cooperating from a self inflicted gunshot wound
in his foot which occurred during the incident when his partner
was killed a couple weeks prior.
Then the stuff about Decker carrying a machine gun was a crock.
FACT: Decker didn't carry a gun at all.
Mr. Gatewood is not reporting history. He is hyping it to sell books.
It's a shame too because Decker rates a real historical treatment.
You wrote: "there was definitely a Mafia presence in Dallas".
You present this as if you are contradicting me.
"No one can say there was never anyone in Dallas who was in the Mafia.
And that is not what I am saying. But as far as any large scale or
dominant
presence, no. "
So far, it looks like you're swinging at air. You have not
demonstrated
any "large scale or dominant presence" of the Mafia.
BTW, How many Italian Mafiosos does Gatewood mention in Decker?
And what were their big moves? How many Mafiosos have been arrested
and sent to the pen for any involvement in crimes in Dallas? Do you
think
these people are just too good to get caught?
As far as you claiming Beverly is not objective because she married
into the mob ...... well, why not? Is there something limiting to
her knowledge for being married in as opposed to someone else
who might have just been along for the ride? Sure she married into
the mob. It was the Dixie Mafia she married into. Not the Italian
Mafia.
I'm sure Jim Ewell who was a Dallas newsman who first wrote the
phrase "Dixie Mafia" is fairly objective.
Do you also want to claim the State Line mob in Tennessee were
Itailian Mafia? Charles Towhead White was the bigshot in that group.
He came and went in Dallas and was once arrested in Dallas by Maddox.
He currently resides in the Angola State Prison Farm in Louisiana.
He was part of the "Dixie Mafia". These are the type of mobsters
Dallas had.
Do you want to also claim that Apalachin was just a picnic?
Civello and Campisi were caught there.
i cant remember where i read it, but i remember seeing somewhere
that Civello traveled to NY with Joseph Marcello, who was also caught
there.
Martin Shackelford
2007-12-12 19:04:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Much of the information I cited appeared in Gatewood's bio of Fritz, which
you ignore.

Martin
Post by Greg Jaynes
Post by Martin Shackelford
bios of Sheriff Decker and Capt. Will Fritz, there was definitely a Mafia
presence in Dallas. In fact, the top Mafia guy in Texas lived in Dallas,
as did several associates of Carlos Marcello. The Guthrie incident is told
in detail in the Decker bio. The police sources are quite clear that
Civello and Campisi were Mafia, and associates of Marcello. That was also
the conclusion of an FBI summary on Dallas organized crime. I don't
consider Beverly Oliver an objective source on the subject--she married
into the Mob. Given the claims you have made in this post, you don't seem
to be a credible source on the subject,Greg.
Martin
Hello Martin and thanks for the affirmation such as it isn't.
Maybe you think Gatewood is a better source. Ok, let's see.
Just a couple of points on his book Decker for you to ponder,
He claimed that Al Maddox led the charge into a house in East
Dallas to capture the thugs who murdered some deputies in
the river bottoms by kicking in the door and going in after them.
FACT: Maddox was not even present at the arrest.
FACT: Maddox could not have kicked in any door because
he was at home re-cooperating from a self inflicted gunshot wound
in his foot which occurred during the incident when his partner
was killed a couple weeks prior.
Then the stuff about Decker carrying a machine gun was a crock.
FACT: Decker didn't carry a gun at all.
Mr. Gatewood is not reporting history. He is hyping it to sell books.
It's a shame too because Decker rates a real historical treatment.
You wrote: "there was definitely a Mafia presence in Dallas".
You present this as if you are contradicting me.
"No one can say there was never anyone in Dallas who was in the Mafia.
And that is not what I am saying. But as far as any large scale or
dominant
presence, no. "
So far, it looks like you're swinging at air. You have not
demonstrated
any "large scale or dominant presence" of the Mafia.
BTW, How many Italian Mafiosos does Gatewood mention in Decker?
And what were their big moves? How many Mafiosos have been arrested
and sent to the pen for any involvement in crimes in Dallas? Do you
think
these people are just too good to get caught?
As far as you claiming Beverly is not objective because she married
into the mob ...... well, why not? Is there something limiting to
her knowledge for being married in as opposed to someone else
who might have just been along for the ride? Sure she married into
the mob. It was the Dixie Mafia she married into. Not the Italian
Mafia.
I'm sure Jim Ewell who was a Dallas newsman who first wrote the
phrase "Dixie Mafia" is fairly objective.
Do you also want to claim the State Line mob in Tennessee were
Itailian Mafia? Charles Towhead White was the bigshot in that group.
He came and went in Dallas and was once arrested in Dallas by Maddox.
He currently resides in the Angola State Prison Farm in Louisiana.
He was part of the "Dixie Mafia". These are the type of mobsters
Dallas had.
I'm saying there was no big time Italian Mafia presence in Dallas.
Let's
limit it to a point in time up thru the 1960's.
You say there was.
Prove it.
Respectfully,
Greg Jaynes
Greg Jaynes
2007-12-13 05:29:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Martin Shackelford
Much of the information I cited appeared in Gatewood's bio of Fritz, which
you ignore.
Martin
Post by Greg Jaynes
Post by Martin Shackelford
bios of Sheriff Decker and Capt. Will Fritz, there was definitely a Mafia
presence in Dallas. In fact, the top Mafia guy in Texas lived in Dallas,
as did several associates of Carlos Marcello. The Guthrie incident is told
in detail in the Decker bio. The police sources are quite clear that
Civello and Campisi were Mafia, and associates of Marcello. That was also
the conclusion of an FBI summary on Dallas organized crime. I don't
consider Beverly Oliver an objective source on the subject--she married
into the Mob. Given the claims you have made in this post, you don't seem
to be a credible source on the subject,Greg.
Martin
Hello Martin and thanks for the affirmation such as it isn't.
Maybe you think Gatewood is a better source. Ok, let's see.
Just a couple of points on his book Decker for you to ponder,
He claimed that Al Maddox led the charge into a house in East
Dallas to capture the thugs who murdered some deputies in
the river bottoms by kicking in the door and going in after them.
FACT: Maddox was not even present at the arrest.
FACT: Maddox could not have kicked in any door because
he was at home re-cooperating from a self inflicted gunshot wound
in his foot which occurred during the incident when his partner
was killed a couple weeks prior.
Then the stuff about Decker carrying a machine gun was a crock.
FACT: Decker didn't carry a gun at all.
Mr. Gatewood is not reporting history. He is hyping it to sell books.
It's a shame too because Decker rates a real historical treatment.
You wrote: "there was definitely a Mafia presence in Dallas".
You present this as if you are contradicting me.
"No one can say there was never anyone in Dallas who was in the Mafia.
And that is not what I am saying. But as far as any large scale or
dominant
presence, no. "
So far, it looks like you're swinging at air. You have not
demonstrated
any "large scale or dominant presence" of the Mafia.
BTW, How many Italian Mafiosos does Gatewood mention in Decker?
And what were their big moves? How many Mafiosos have been arrested
and sent to the pen for any involvement in crimes in Dallas? Do you
think
these people are just too good to get caught?
As far as you claiming Beverly is not objective because she married
into the mob ...... well, why not? Is there something limiting to
her knowledge for being married in as opposed to someone else
who might have just been along for the ride? Sure she married into
the mob. It was the Dixie Mafia she married into. Not the Italian
Mafia.
I'm sure Jim Ewell who was a Dallas newsman who first wrote the
phrase "Dixie Mafia" is fairly objective.
Do you also want to claim the State Line mob in Tennessee were
Itailian Mafia? Charles Towhead White was the bigshot in that group.
He came and went in Dallas and was once arrested in Dallas by Maddox.
He currently resides in the Angola State Prison Farm in Louisiana.
He was part of the "Dixie Mafia". These are the type of mobsters
Dallas had.
I'm saying there was no big time Italian Mafia presence in Dallas.
Let's
limit it to a point in time up thru the 1960's.
You say there was.
Prove it.
Respectfully,
Greg Jaynes- Hide quoted text -
Sorry Martin, I didn't really ignore it. I just haven't read it.
I can see the cover on his website.

1925 terror grips Dallas -
If this is about the fire bombing campaigns, it was the Ku Klux Klan.

1932 - West Dallas Gang -
What is this? Clyde Barrow, Buck Barrow, Ray Hamilton?
Or Herbie Nobles?

1950 Mafia invades Dallas -

1952 Kefauver committee

1960 Jack Ruby liasion for the national Mafia syndicate


------------------------------------------------------


A quote from the pitch for the book:

"The Kennedy assassination was a Mafia hit. Kennedy was to be hit if
he went to Chicago, Miami, New Orleans, Los Angeles, or Dallas. The
Dallas number
came up first."

I can't wait to read it.

Maybe I'l get a chance to go the Dallas library
next week when I get to town. I'm certainly not going to buy it
for $50.00 after what I saw of his Decker book.

Maybe I can get it on inter-library loan into the Rosenberg library
in Galveston. I'll check it out.

Did you follow the link I posted about Charlie Tessmer?
He actually supports the Decker thought there was a
conspiracy angle. He said Decker told him as a mason
not to defend Ruby. I don't doubt that Decker told him this
but I think Decker was just a little full of himself and he was
a bullshitter like some of his deputies. (especially the ones
who helped Gatewood publish the book about Decker)
I don't have proof but I have been told that some of them
have a financial interest in the book.

As long as we are discussing it, I never made a big deal out
of it and don't intend to now other than mentioning it here,
I'm not going to name any names cause I don't want to get
a bunch guff started but one of Gatewoods close pals who
is a former Decker Deputy bragged to me and dangled the
fact in front of me that he had the pictures of the stringlines
used in room 13 of the Eastern Hills motel room where
Dallas Deputy Buddy Walthers was killed. This was while
I was researching the essay I wrote about it which I titled
"Room 13".

http://www.angelfire.com/country/DallasHistory/r13.html

The thing is, those pictures were in the court files of James
Walter Cherry who killed Walthers. I submitted a Texas
Open Records Act request and got the files transferred to
the courthouse so I could read them. But the pictures were
not there. Several people have told me about them, that they
have seen them but to this day, I have not. So I'm waiting to
see what happens if they ever do surface.

See, I don't care if there was a conspiracy or not in the
assassination. Whatever happened is all I'm interested in.
My hobby is to research history. Real history. And it's
kind of f'ed up that people who have a lesser interest in
history but an amplified sense of self interest get in the
way of it.

Respectfully,
Greg Jaynes
steve
2007-12-11 02:34:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
couldnt agree more with you on this Shack. besides what you have
mentioned, the "dixie mafia" was throughout the south, not just in Dallas.
Beverly Oliver did marry into organized crime that werent the Italians, so
why should we expect her to know much about the Italians. I also wouldnt
expect the cops from back then to admit there was a mob, and the same goes
for them, does anyone think they went around announcing "we are part of
the mob and we are in Dallas". The whole point of "organized crime" or
"Mafia" is that its SECRET. These guys in the Mob dont go around
advertising. If it were so easy to know about the Mafia and who was in it
and what they did, there would be no Mafia, theyd be in jail.
Post by Martin Shackelford
bios of Sheriff Decker and Capt. Will Fritz, there was definitely a Mafia
presence in Dallas. In fact, the top Mafia guy in Texas lived in Dallas,
as did several associates of Carlos Marcello. The Guthrie incident is told
in detail in the Decker bio. The police sources are quite clear that
Civello and Campisi were Mafia, and associates of Marcello. That was also
the conclusion of an FBI summary on Dallas organized crime. I don't
consider Beverly Oliver an objective source on the subject--she married
into the Mob. Given the claims you have made in this post, you don't seem
to be a credible source on the subject, Greg.
Martin
Post by Greg Jaynes
Post by curtjester1
Post by SolFrankRosen
Carlos Marcello, hmmmm... I keep coming back to that name over and
over
In the biography "Robert Kennedy" by Evan Thomas, Thomas cites a
conversation between Dick Goodwin and Bobby in 1967 in which Bobby
notes that he believed JFK was killed by "the guy from New Orleans," -
"meaning Marcello" - writes Thomas
"Carlos Marcello, the don of New Orleans...." writes Thomas
"his (Bobby's) suspicions may have been fed by something told to him
by Walter Sheridan, who had spent months looking into Marcello and his
connections while working on the Garrison story. Sheridan, who,
according to his wife, refused to talk about JFK's assassination until
just before he died in 1996. Then he shocked his son, Walter Jr., by
stating that he was "convinced" that President Kennedy had been killed
by a conspiracy."
Granted, I am entertained by Oliver Stone's film, albeit rife with
flaws, I don't recall Marcello being mentioned in the film.
Interesting for him to have been the N.O. don. Excuse me for using
Stone's words of Dean Andrews, but we are led, quite blindly into the
supposition that Clay Shaw/Bertrand was the big "enchillada".
Sheridan (and RFK) believed Garrison to be a fraud and Sheridan even
had dialoque with a defector from the Garrison camp to buttress this
belief. Could someone remind me of who that defector was?
My point is that even though Garrison may have been a questionable guy
himself, maybe New Orleans was indeed the hub of the "operation". Why
didn't Garrison go after Carlos Marcello instead of Clay?
Anyone out there got any ideas to share on this?
Garrison was either tied into the Mob or was afraid of it, hence he didn't
go after Mob figureheads. Marcello had a vast area of wealth mostly in
Louisiana but Dallas as well. The Mobsters in Dallas, Civello and Campisi
were under Marcello. Read The Mafia Kingfish by John Davis for all the
Marcello scoop. Very poignant and entertaining.
CJ- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Mafia Kingfish was interesting for sure. However, I do not think there has
ever been any big time Italian Mafia presence in Dallas.
Will Wilson was the District Attorney before Henry Wade, he helped head
off a move by Chicago mobsters to move into Dallas by setting them up and
recording their conversations. The mobsters tried to corrupt Sheriff Steve
Guthrie. (Guthrie was known as "the boy Sheriff". Bill Decker defeated him
in 1948 to take the job of Dallas County Sheriff) Guthrie called in Wilson
and the Texas Rangers. It's an interesting story, I want to tell it
someday. The Dallas Police were left out of the loop because the Chicago
mob had made some inroads with bribery which all got brought out into the
open at this time.
Wilson got a lot of press out of it and wound up being Texas Attorney
General. At that post, he went after the open gambling operations in
Galveston. There was no Mafia in Galveston either. But there were Italians
who ran things. They just were not in the Mafia. These Italians turned
away the mob as they were turned away in Dallas.
Back to Dallas, what mobsters there were; were gamblers mostly . There
were truck hijackings and jewery store robberies too. But they weren't the
Italian Mafia. Read Beverly Olivers book for a realistic look at Dallas
organized crime. That's right, a LNer referring you to Beverly Olivers
book. There are some real insights in her story. Plus in case any one is
interested, I know for a fact from different sources about some things she
discusses like the murder of George Fuqua and the murder of Stanley
"Creeper" Cook. Fuqua is an obscure name. No reason for her to lie about
it cause no one ever heard of the guy. (Except for me that is). Dallas
Police captain Paul Macaghren labeled the Dallas crime confederation, the
Dixie Mafia. Beverlys husband George McGann was one of the top guys in it.
Hey, has anyone ever heard the story that McGann killed Buford Pussers
wife? Y'all probably think Bufford Pusser walked tall and stood up for
the law don't you? I know, it sounds like it's gonna get deep right about
now but I'm not going to do it here so relax.
I don't mean to say there never was anyone who was mobbed up in Dallas,
just that the Italian Mafia never ran things in Dallas. That includes
Marcello, Civillo, Campisi or any of 'em. I don't even think Campisi was a
criminal at all. I'm sure he knew everyone, but he was just a resturaunt
owner.
Bill Decker had the final word on what was allowed in Dallas. I like
talking to his old time deputies. They'll tell you about him. They're full
of shit a lot of the time cause they like to talk it up as can be read in
the bullshit book Decker. But they also know the real story and the real
gangsters of Dallas' past.
Clint Murchison did business with Carlos Marcello. These deals were for
cash financing. Murchison invented the concept of "Other Peoples Money"
Marcello was a good source of ready cash. Murchison just went around
starting up cash cows and putting someone in charge of running them and
paying off the debts. He owned everything and somebody else always did all
the work. It worked great his whole life. It finally caight up with
Murchisons son Clint Jr. and as a result Jr. had to sell the Dallas
Cowboys but thats another story. The next time you go into a Tony Romas
and order some baby back ribs savor the thought of it being part of
Murchisons legacy.
There was big money in Dallas,.back when Big money really seperated the
real rich from the real poor. Dallas had the old rich families who thought
they were too good for the newly super rich oil field trash like
Murchison, Sid Richardson, H.L. Hunt who all traded off at one time or the
other being the richest men on earth.
But at the end of the day, Dallas was never in the hands of the Italian
Mafia. It always bothers me when people think that Marcello ran anything
in Dallas. He did not.
Respectfully,
Greg Jaynes- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
couldnt agree more with you on this Shack.
Texextra
2007-12-13 20:23:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by steve
couldnt agree more with you on this Shack. besides what you have
mentioned, the "dixie mafia" was throughout the south, not just in Dallas.
Beverly Oliver did marry into organized crime that werent the Italians, so
why should we expect her to know much about the Italians. I also wouldnt
expect the cops from back then to admit there was a mob, and the same goes
for them, does anyone think they went around announcing "we are part of
the mob and we are in Dallas". The whole point of "organized crime" or
"Mafia" is that its SECRET. These guys in the Mob dont go around
advertising. If it were so easy to know about the Mafia and who was in it
and what they did, there would be no Mafia, theyd be in jail.
Post by Martin Shackelford
bios of Sheriff Decker and Capt. Will Fritz, there was definitely a Mafia
presence in Dallas. In fact, the top Mafia guy in Texas lived in Dallas,
as did several associates of Carlos Marcello. The Guthrie incident is told
in detail in the Decker bio. The police sources are quite clear that
Civello and Campisi were Mafia, and associates of Marcello. That was also
the conclusion of an FBI summary on Dallas organized crime. I don't
consider Beverly Oliver an objective source on the subject--she married
into the Mob. Given the claims you have made in this post, you don't seem
to be a credible source on the subject, Greg.
Martin
Post by Greg Jaynes
Post by curtjester1
Post by SolFrankRosen
Carlos Marcello, hmmmm... I keep coming back to that name over and
over
In the biography "Robert Kennedy" by Evan Thomas, Thomas cites a
conversation between Dick Goodwin and Bobby in 1967 in which Bobby
notes that he believed JFK was killed by "the guy from New Orleans," -
"meaning Marcello" - writes Thomas
"Carlos Marcello, the don of New Orleans...." writes Thomas
"his (Bobby's) suspicions may have been fed by something told to him
by Walter Sheridan, who had spent months looking into Marcello and his
connections while working on the Garrison story. Sheridan, who,
according to his wife, refused to talk about JFK's assassination until
just before he died in 1996. Then he shocked his son, Walter Jr., by
stating that he was "convinced" that President Kennedy had been killed
by a conspiracy."
Granted, I am entertained by Oliver Stone's film, albeit rife with
flaws, I don't recall Marcello being mentioned in the film.
Interesting for him to have been the N.O. don. Excuse me for using
Stone's words of Dean Andrews, but we are led, quite blindly into the
supposition that Clay Shaw/Bertrand was the big "enchillada".
Sheridan (and RFK) believed Garrison to be a fraud and Sheridan even
had dialoque with a defector from the Garrison camp to buttress this
belief. Could someone remind me of who that defector was?
My point is that even though Garrison may have been a questionable guy
himself, maybe New Orleans was indeed the hub of the "operation". Why
didn't Garrison go after Carlos Marcello instead of Clay?
Anyone out there got any ideas to share on this?
Garrison was either tied into the Mob or was afraid of it, hence he didn't
go after Mob figureheads. Marcello had a vast area of wealth mostly in
Louisiana but Dallas as well. The Mobsters in Dallas, Civello and Campisi
were under Marcello. Read The Mafia Kingfish by John Davis for all the
Marcello scoop. Very poignant and entertaining.
CJ- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Mafia Kingfish was interesting for sure. However, I do not think there has
ever been any big time Italian Mafia presence in Dallas.
Will Wilson was the District Attorney before Henry Wade, he helped head
off a move by Chicago mobsters to move into Dallas by setting them up and
recording their conversations. The mobsters tried to corrupt Sheriff Steve
Guthrie. (Guthrie was known as "the boy Sheriff". Bill Decker defeated him
in 1948 to take the job of Dallas County Sheriff) Guthrie called in Wilson
and the Texas Rangers. It's an interesting story, I want to tell it
someday. The Dallas Police were left out of the loop because the Chicago
mob had made some inroads with bribery which all got brought out into the
open at this time.
Wilson got a lot of press out of it and wound up being Texas Attorney
General. At that post, he went after the open gambling operations in
Galveston. There was no Mafia in Galveston either. But there were Italians
who ran things. They just were not in the Mafia. These Italians turned
away the mob as they were turned away in Dallas.
Back to Dallas, what mobsters there were; were gamblers mostly . There
were truck hijackings and jewery store robberies too. But they weren't the
Italian Mafia. Read Beverly Olivers book for a realistic look at Dallas
organized crime. That's right, a LNer referring you to Beverly Olivers
book. There are some real insights in her story. Plus in case any one is
interested, I know for a fact from different sources about some things she
discusses like the murder of George Fuqua and the murder of Stanley
"Creeper" Cook. Fuqua is an obscure name. No reason for her to lie about
it cause no one ever heard of the guy. (Except for me that is). Dallas
Police captain Paul Macaghren labeled the Dallas crime confederation, the
Dixie Mafia. Beverlys husband George McGann was one of the top guys in it.
Hey, has anyone ever heard the story that McGann killed Buford Pussers
wife? Y'all probably think Bufford Pusser walked tall and stood up for
the law don't you? I know, it sounds like it's gonna get deep right about
now but I'm not going to do it here so relax.
I don't mean to say there never was anyone who was mobbed up in Dallas,
just that the Italian Mafia never ran things in Dallas. That includes
Marcello, Civillo, Campisi or any of 'em. I don't even think Campisi was a
criminal at all. I'm sure he knew everyone, but he was just a resturaunt
owner.
Bill Decker had the final word on what was allowed in Dallas. I like
talking to his old time deputies. They'll tell you about him. They're full
of shit a lot of the time cause they like to talk it up as can be read in
the bullshit book Decker. But they also know the real story and the real
gangsters of Dallas' past.
Clint Murchison did business with Carlos Marcello. These deals were for
cash financing. Murchison invented the concept of "Other Peoples Money"
Marcello was a good source of ready cash. Murchison just went around
starting up cash cows and putting someone in charge of running them and
paying off the debts. He owned everything and somebody else always did all
the work. It worked great his whole life. It finally caight up with
Murchisons son Clint Jr. and as a result Jr. had to sell the Dallas
Cowboys but thats another story. The next time you go into a Tony Romas
and order some baby back ribs savor the thought of it being part of
Murchisons legacy.
There was big money in Dallas,.back when Big money really seperated the
real rich from the real poor. Dallas had the old rich families who thought
they were too good for the newly super rich oil field trash like
Murchison, Sid Richardson, H.L. Hunt who all traded off at one time or the
other being the richest men on earth.
But at the end of the day, Dallas was never in the hands of the Italian
Mafia. It always bothers me when people think that Marcello ran anything
in Dallas. He did not.
Respectfully,
Greg Jaynes- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
couldnt agree more with you on this Shack.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Why hasn't anyone mentioned that Campesi went to see Ruby in jail?
Peter Fokes
2007-12-13 20:28:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Texextra
Post by steve
couldnt agree more with you on this Shack. besides what you have
mentioned, the "dixie mafia" was throughout the south, not just in Dallas.
Beverly Oliver did marry into organized crime that werent the Italians, so
why should we expect her to know much about the Italians. I also wouldnt
expect the cops from back then to admit there was a mob, and the same goes
for them, does anyone think they went around announcing "we are part of
the mob and we are in Dallas". The whole point of "organized crime" or
"Mafia" is that its SECRET. These guys in the Mob dont go around
advertising. If it were so easy to know about the Mafia and who was in it
and what they did, there would be no Mafia, theyd be in jail.
Post by Martin Shackelford
bios of Sheriff Decker and Capt. Will Fritz, there was definitely a Mafia
presence in Dallas. In fact, the top Mafia guy in Texas lived in Dallas,
as did several associates of Carlos Marcello. The Guthrie incident is told
in detail in the Decker bio. The police sources are quite clear that
Civello and Campisi were Mafia, and associates of Marcello. That was also
the conclusion of an FBI summary on Dallas organized crime. I don't
consider Beverly Oliver an objective source on the subject--she married
into the Mob. Given the claims you have made in this post, you don't seem
to be a credible source on the subject, Greg.
Martin
Post by Greg Jaynes
Post by curtjester1
Post by SolFrankRosen
Carlos Marcello, hmmmm... I keep coming back to that name over and
over
In the biography "Robert Kennedy" by Evan Thomas, Thomas cites a
conversation between Dick Goodwin and Bobby in 1967 in which Bobby
notes that he believed JFK was killed by "the guy from New Orleans," -
"meaning Marcello" - writes Thomas
"Carlos Marcello, the don of New Orleans...." writes Thomas
"his (Bobby's) suspicions may have been fed by something told to him
by Walter Sheridan, who had spent months looking into Marcello and his
connections while working on the Garrison story. Sheridan, who,
according to his wife, refused to talk about JFK's assassination until
just before he died in 1996. Then he shocked his son, Walter Jr., by
stating that he was "convinced" that President Kennedy had been killed
by a conspiracy."
Granted, I am entertained by Oliver Stone's film, albeit rife with
flaws, I don't recall Marcello being mentioned in the film.
Interesting for him to have been the N.O. don. Excuse me for using
Stone's words of Dean Andrews, but we are led, quite blindly into the
supposition that Clay Shaw/Bertrand was the big "enchillada".
Sheridan (and RFK) believed Garrison to be a fraud and Sheridan even
had dialoque with a defector from the Garrison camp to buttress this
belief. Could someone remind me of who that defector was?
My point is that even though Garrison may have been a questionable guy
himself, maybe New Orleans was indeed the hub of the "operation". Why
didn't Garrison go after Carlos Marcello instead of Clay?
Anyone out there got any ideas to share on this?
Garrison was either tied into the Mob or was afraid of it, hence he didn't
go after Mob figureheads. Marcello had a vast area of wealth mostly in
Louisiana but Dallas as well. The Mobsters in Dallas, Civello and Campisi
were under Marcello. Read The Mafia Kingfish by John Davis for all the
Marcello scoop. Very poignant and entertaining.
CJ- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Mafia Kingfish was interesting for sure. However, I do not think there has
ever been any big time Italian Mafia presence in Dallas.
Will Wilson was the District Attorney before Henry Wade, he helped head
off a move by Chicago mobsters to move into Dallas by setting them up and
recording their conversations. The mobsters tried to corrupt Sheriff Steve
Guthrie. (Guthrie was known as "the boy Sheriff". Bill Decker defeated him
in 1948 to take the job of Dallas County Sheriff) Guthrie called in Wilson
and the Texas Rangers. It's an interesting story, I want to tell it
someday. The Dallas Police were left out of the loop because the Chicago
mob had made some inroads with bribery which all got brought out into the
open at this time.
Wilson got a lot of press out of it and wound up being Texas Attorney
General. At that post, he went after the open gambling operations in
Galveston. There was no Mafia in Galveston either. But there were Italians
who ran things. They just were not in the Mafia. These Italians turned
away the mob as they were turned away in Dallas.
Back to Dallas, what mobsters there were; were gamblers mostly . There
were truck hijackings and jewery store robberies too. But they weren't the
Italian Mafia. Read Beverly Olivers book for a realistic look at Dallas
organized crime. That's right, a LNer referring you to Beverly Olivers
book. There are some real insights in her story. Plus in case any one is
interested, I know for a fact from different sources about some things she
discusses like the murder of George Fuqua and the murder of Stanley
"Creeper" Cook. Fuqua is an obscure name. No reason for her to lie about
it cause no one ever heard of the guy. (Except for me that is). Dallas
Police captain Paul Macaghren labeled the Dallas crime confederation, the
Dixie Mafia. Beverlys husband George McGann was one of the top guys in it.
Hey, has anyone ever heard the story that McGann killed Buford Pussers
wife? Y'all probably think Bufford Pusser walked tall and stood up for
the law don't you? I know, it sounds like it's gonna get deep right about
now but I'm not going to do it here so relax.
I don't mean to say there never was anyone who was mobbed up in Dallas,
just that the Italian Mafia never ran things in Dallas. That includes
Marcello, Civillo, Campisi or any of 'em. I don't even think Campisi was a
criminal at all. I'm sure he knew everyone, but he was just a resturaunt
owner.
Bill Decker had the final word on what was allowed in Dallas. I like
talking to his old time deputies. They'll tell you about him. They're full
of shit a lot of the time cause they like to talk it up as can be read in
the bullshit book Decker. But they also know the real story and the real
gangsters of Dallas' past.
Clint Murchison did business with Carlos Marcello. These deals were for
cash financing. Murchison invented the concept of "Other Peoples Money"
Marcello was a good source of ready cash. Murchison just went around
starting up cash cows and putting someone in charge of running them and
paying off the debts. He owned everything and somebody else always did all
the work. It worked great his whole life. It finally caight up with
Murchisons son Clint Jr. and as a result Jr. had to sell the Dallas
Cowboys but thats another story. The next time you go into a Tony Romas
and order some baby back ribs savor the thought of it being part of
Murchisons legacy.
There was big money in Dallas,.back when Big money really seperated the
real rich from the real poor. Dallas had the old rich families who thought
they were too good for the newly super rich oil field trash like
Murchison, Sid Richardson, H.L. Hunt who all traded off at one time or the
other being the richest men on earth.
But at the end of the day, Dallas was never in the hands of the Italian
Mafia. It always bothers me when people think that Marcello ran anything
in Dallas. He did not.
Respectfully,
Greg Jaynes- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
couldnt agree more with you on this Shack.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Why hasn't anyone mentioned that Campesi went to see Ruby in jail?
<quote on>


Q. Now, a few days after Jack Ruby shot Lee Harvey Oswald you paid him
a visit in jail?
A. Bill Decker who was sheriff at that time had called me and said,
"Joe, Jack Ruby has said he would like to see some of his best
friends, closest friends."
He said, "He has your name on a list, you and Marie," who is my wife.
He says, "Would you like to come up and talk to him?"
I said, "Yeah, I would like to go up and visit the guy."
Q. Excuse me. Sheriff Decker told you that both your name and your
wife's name was on that list?
A. Yes.
Q. Did he mention your brother's name was on that list?
A. No. No. So we went up and, I don't know whether it was on a Sunday
or what day it was we went up.
Q. When you say "we", did your wife accompany you?
A. Yes. And so we go up and he is in a little cell, and there is a
deputy sitting in the cell with him, so we stand there and walk up and
say, "Hi, Jack." He says, "Hi, Joe. Hi, Marie. What are the people
saying about me?'
I said, "They are not saying nothing about you."
Now, I don't whether he had said to me, but something about, he said,
"Jews have got --" I think he said something about, "Well, Jews have
got class. Nobody but me could do it," something like this. And so we
talked, and I asked him how he felt, you know. He had just wanted to
know how the people on the street, his friends, thought about what he
did.
I said, "They don't think nothing," you know. And just before we left
he said to me, he said, "Joe, you tell that damn Milton Joseph he is
still barred out of my club." We thought that was funny.
Q. This was the original fellow who introduced you to Jack?
A. That's right. So we left. Do you want -- I am going to tell you
what happened. Okay.

<quote off>

See

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/hscacamp.htm


Peter Fokes
m***@hotmail.com
2017-08-12 15:20:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Greg Jaynes
Back to Dallas, what mobsters there were; were gamblers mostly . There
were truck hijackings and jewery store robberies too. But they weren't the
Italian Mafia. Read Beverly Olivers book for a realistic look at Dallas
organized crime. That's right, a LNer referring you to Beverly Olivers
book. There are some real insights in her story. Plus in case any one is
interested, I know for a fact from different sources about some things she
discusses like the murder of George Fuqua and the murder of Stanley
"Creeper" Cook. Fuqua is an obscure name. No reason for her to lie about
it cause no one ever heard of the guy. (Except for me that is).
Greg, I know this is many years after you wrote this but I cam across this
while searching for information. George Fuqua was my grandfather. Do you
have any more information on him? I don't know his birth date, I just know
he was shot and killed in texas around 1963 and was involved with strip
clubs and the dixie mafia. I'd really like to learn whatever I can. Mom
doesn't remember much, she only saw him when she was fairly young.

Thanks,
Miranda
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-13 13:29:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by m***@hotmail.com
Post by Greg Jaynes
Back to Dallas, what mobsters there were; were gamblers mostly . There
were truck hijackings and jewery store robberies too. But they weren't the
Italian Mafia. Read Beverly Olivers book for a realistic look at Dallas
I see you know nothing about the Mafia. The Commission was in control of
all Mafia activities in the US and some beyond the US. They divided up the
country into regions and a Mafia Don would be in charge of a specific
area. Trafficante's territory included Dallas, Texas and New Orleans and
he was in charge of who would run things there. Ever hear of Campisi? Does
that sound like an Irish name to you? Guess who visited Jack Ruby in jail
after he killed Oswald. Campisi. Jack Ruby could not be a member of the
Mafia because he was not Italian, so he was only an associate. Like Meyer
Lansky.
Post by m***@hotmail.com
Post by Greg Jaynes
organized crime. That's right, a LNer referring you to Beverly Olivers
book. There are some real insights in her story. Plus in case any one is
Beverly Oliver is a hoax.
Post by m***@hotmail.com
Post by Greg Jaynes
interested, I know for a fact from different sources about some things she
discusses like the murder of George Fuqua and the murder of Stanley
"Creeper" Cook. Fuqua is an obscure name. No reason for her to lie about
it cause no one ever heard of the guy. (Except for me that is).
Greg, I know this is many years after you wrote this but I cam across this
while searching for information. George Fuqua was my grandfather. Do you
have any more information on him? I don't know his birth date, I just know
he was shot and killed in texas around 1963 and was involved with strip
clubs and the dixie mafia. I'd really like to learn whatever I can. Mom
doesn't remember much, she only saw him when she was fairly young.
Thanks,
Miranda
OHLeeRedux
2017-08-14 13:51:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Anthony Marsh
Post by Greg Jaynes
Back to Dallas, what mobsters there were; were gamblers mostly . There
were truck hijackings and jewery store robberies too. But they weren't the
Italian Mafia. Read Beverly Olivers book for a realistic look at Dallas
I see you know nothing about the Mafia.



Yes, definitely listen to Mr. Marsh. After all, he is the brilliant
individual who informed us that President Clinton was never impeached, and
that the Vice President could break a tie on the Supreme Court and preside
at his own impeachment trial. Not only that, he also tells us he invented
the word "kook," he argues with himself, anyone who disagrees with him is
a Nazi, and if you call him out for making one of these ludicrous
statements, he clears it up by simply claiming that he never said what is
still right there in his post for everyone to see.

A true fount of wisdom.
Anthony Marsh
2017-08-14 23:43:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by OHLeeRedux
Anthony Marsh
Post by Greg Jaynes
Back to Dallas, what mobsters there were; were gamblers mostly . There
were truck hijackings and jewery store robberies too. But they weren't the
Italian Mafia. Read Beverly Olivers book for a realistic look at Dallas
I see you know nothing about the Mafia.
Yes, definitely listen to Mr. Marsh. After all, he is the brilliant
individual who informed us that President Clinton was never impeached, and
that the Vice President could break a tie on the Supreme Court and preside
at his own impeachment trial. Not only that, he also tells us he invented
the word "kook," he argues with himself, anyone who disagrees with him is
a Nazi, and if you call him out for making one of these ludicrous
statements, he clears it up by simply claiming that he never said what is
still right there in his post for everyone to see.
A true fount of wisdom.
As typical for a Putin troll all you do is misrepresent what I've said.
OHLeeRedux
2017-08-15 13:01:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by OHLeeRedux
Anthony Marsh
Post by Greg Jaynes
Back to Dallas, what mobsters there were; were gamblers mostly . There
were truck hijackings and jewery store robberies too. But they weren't the
Italian Mafia. Read Beverly Olivers book for a realistic look at Dallas
I see you know nothing about the Mafia.
Yes, definitely listen to Mr. Marsh. After all, he is the brilliant
individual who informed us that President Clinton was never impeached, and
that the Vice President could break a tie on the Supreme Court and preside
at his own impeachment trial. Not only that, he also tells us he invented
the word "kook," he argues with himself, anyone who disagrees with him is
a Nazi, and if you call him out for making one of these ludicrous
statements, he clears it up by simply claiming that he never said what is
still right there in his post for everyone to see.
A true fount of wisdom.
As typical for a Putin troll all you do is misrepresent what I've said.
The fact that you've convinced yourself that you didn't say those things
speaks volumes about your intellectual integrity. Either that, or you're
just spouting another of your damnable "alternative facts."

Either way, you confirm my observation that no one should take anything
you say seriously.

Mark OBLAZNEY
2017-08-13 13:32:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by m***@hotmail.com
Post by Greg Jaynes
Back to Dallas, what mobsters there were; were gamblers mostly . There
were truck hijackings and jewery store robberies too. But they weren't the
Italian Mafia. Read Beverly Olivers book for a realistic look at Dallas
organized crime. That's right, a LNer referring you to Beverly Olivers
book. There are some real insights in her story. Plus in case any one is
interested, I know for a fact from different sources about some things she
discusses like the murder of George Fuqua and the murder of Stanley
"Creeper" Cook. Fuqua is an obscure name. No reason for her to lie about
it cause no one ever heard of the guy. (Except for me that is).
Greg, I know this is many years after you wrote this but I cam across this
while searching for information. George Fuqua was my grandfather. Do you
have any more information on him? I don't know his birth date, I just know
he was shot and killed in texas around 1963 and was involved with strip
clubs and the dixie mafia. I'd really like to learn whatever I can. Mom
doesn't remember much, she only saw him when she was fairly young.
Thanks,
Miranda
Fascinating stuff, hope there's some follow-up.
r***@gmail.com
2017-02-13 01:45:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by SolFrankRosen
Carlos Marcello, hmmmm... I keep coming back to that name over and
over
In the biography "Robert Kennedy" by Evan Thomas, Thomas cites a
conversation between Dick Goodwin and Bobby in 1967 in which Bobby
notes that he believed JFK was killed by "the guy from New Orleans," -
"meaning Marcello" - writes Thomas
"Carlos Marcello, the don of New Orleans...." writes Thomas
"his (Bobby's) suspicions may have been fed by something told to him
by Walter Sheridan, who had spent months looking into Marcello and his
connections while working on the Garrison story. Sheridan, who,
according to his wife, refused to talk about JFK's assassination until
just before he died in 1996. Then he shocked his son, Walter Jr., by
stating that he was "convinced" that President Kennedy had been killed
by a conspiracy."
Granted, I am entertained by Oliver Stone's film, albeit rife with
flaws, I don't recall Marcello being mentioned in the film.
Interesting for him to have been the N.O. don. Excuse me for using
Stone's words of Dean Andrews, but we are led, quite blindly into the
supposition that Clay Shaw/Bertrand was the big "enchillada".
Sheridan (and RFK) believed Garrison to be a fraud and Sheridan even
had dialoque with a defector from the Garrison camp to buttress this
belief. Could someone remind me of who that defector was?
My point is that even though Garrison may have been a questionable guy
himself, maybe New Orleans was indeed the hub of the "operation". Why
didn't Garrison go after Carlos Marcello instead of Clay?
Anyone out there got any ideas to share on this?
Yes it was Mafia Bonnano-Bronsfeld-Lansky-Hollis de Lois Green Gang that
was behind it all working for Mafia people with Batista's Mafia. The
weapons used by Rubeinsteins-Matthews, others were the ones from Cuba and
the ballistics were all off. Remember Lansky used to sneak out
Nickel-Silver used for munitions which they used in the Winchester & other
rifles that were jacketed -- hence the bullets from the Carcano don't
match. Matthews used to like Winchester rifles too, collapsible. JMWave
also had various rifles that were used in Cuba but only the Lanksy rifles
& revolvers with the receipts those ballistics match the JFK as do the
Motorola car radios with the railroad ones.
Anthony Marsh
2017-02-13 22:02:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by SolFrankRosen
Carlos Marcello, hmmmm... I keep coming back to that name over and
over
In the biography "Robert Kennedy" by Evan Thomas, Thomas cites a
conversation between Dick Goodwin and Bobby in 1967 in which Bobby
notes that he believed JFK was killed by "the guy from New Orleans," -
"meaning Marcello" - writes Thomas
"Carlos Marcello, the don of New Orleans...." writes Thomas
"his (Bobby's) suspicions may have been fed by something told to him
by Walter Sheridan, who had spent months looking into Marcello and his
connections while working on the Garrison story. Sheridan, who,
according to his wife, refused to talk about JFK's assassination until
just before he died in 1996. Then he shocked his son, Walter Jr., by
stating that he was "convinced" that President Kennedy had been killed
by a conspiracy."
Granted, I am entertained by Oliver Stone's film, albeit rife with
flaws, I don't recall Marcello being mentioned in the film.
Interesting for him to have been the N.O. don. Excuse me for using
Stone's words of Dean Andrews, but we are led, quite blindly into the
supposition that Clay Shaw/Bertrand was the big "enchillada".
Sheridan (and RFK) believed Garrison to be a fraud and Sheridan even
had dialoque with a defector from the Garrison camp to buttress this
belief. Could someone remind me of who that defector was?
My point is that even though Garrison may have been a questionable guy
himself, maybe New Orleans was indeed the hub of the "operation". Why
didn't Garrison go after Carlos Marcello instead of Clay?
Anyone out there got any ideas to share on this?
Yes it was Mafia Bonnano-Bronsfeld-Lansky-Hollis de Lois Green Gang that
was behind it all working for Mafia people with Batista's Mafia. The
weapons used by Rubeinsteins-Matthews, others were the ones from Cuba and
the ballistics were all off. Remember Lansky used to sneak out
Nickel-Silver used for munitions which they used in the Winchester & other
rifles that were jacketed -- hence the bullets from the Carcano don't
match. Matthews used to like Winchester rifles too, collapsible. JMWave
also had various rifles that were used in Cuba but only the Lanksy rifles
& revolvers with the receipts those ballistics match the JFK as do the
Motorola car radios with the railroad ones.
Was this hoax a homework assignment?
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