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I'm just a patsy!
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Steve BH
2018-06-14 01:02:29 UTC
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Patsy, patsy. Oswald says he's just a "patsy" but we never take him at his
real meaning. We should remember it.

His full quote is: "No, they are taking me in because of the fact that I
lived in the Soviet Union. I'm just a patsy!"

Meaning: I'm a member of an easy-to-blame-group. Same as "They pulled me
over because I was black; I'm just a patsy." Or "They rounded up all the
usual suspects; I'm a patsy!"

As Oswald meant it, it does NOT mean somebody individually and
specifically set-up, and carefully framed in some very expert way. NO! But
somehow, we assume that's what he was saying to us AT THAT TIME. He
wasn't. Even the guy's lies are misunderstood ("patsy" used to me simply
"fool.") The word is not used much these days, and everybody
misunderstands Oswald here. But it's easy enough in context to get what he
ACTUALLY means. It conveys the idea of group-prejudice and simple
stupidity, not massive clockwork manufacturing of evidence to fit some
long pre-arranged fall-guy.

Yes, sure, Oswald (later) talking about somebody pasting his photo head on
somebody else's body in the backyard photo they showed him, sounds indeed
a claim of a careful frame-up. But that's now a different and later day
and Oswald is by now working on a different and more desperate lie (in
fact he is suggesting the photo was made the same way he actually made his
own selective service card for "Alex J. Hidell".) Don't read all this as
one perfectly consistent tale. It's all just Oswald free-associating, and
denying whatever he feels he can (like owning a rifle, or needing curtain
rods).

"You can out-shoot a shooter," as the old cops say, "but you can't
out-shit a shitter." (Meaning out-bullshit a bullshit artist). No cop can
match Verbal Kint.
Steve M. Galbraith
2018-06-15 00:54:44 UTC
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Post by Steve BH
Patsy, patsy. Oswald says he's just a "patsy" but we never take him at his
real meaning. We should remember it.
His full quote is: "No, they are taking me in because of the fact that I
lived in the Soviet Union. I'm just a patsy!"
Meaning: I'm a member of an easy-to-blame-group. Same as "They pulled me
over because I was black; I'm just a patsy." Or "They rounded up all the
usual suspects; I'm a patsy!"
As Oswald meant it, it does NOT mean somebody individually and
specifically set-up, and carefully framed in some very expert way. NO! But
somehow, we assume that's what he was saying to us AT THAT TIME. He
wasn't. Even the guy's lies are misunderstood ("patsy" used to me simply
"fool.") The word is not used much these days, and everybody
misunderstands Oswald here. But it's easy enough in context to get what he
ACTUALLY means. It conveys the idea of group-prejudice and simple
stupidity, not massive clockwork manufacturing of evidence to fit some
long pre-arranged fall-guy.
Yes, sure, Oswald (later) talking about somebody pasting his photo head on
somebody else's body in the backyard photo they showed him, sounds indeed
a claim of a careful frame-up. But that's now a different and later day
and Oswald is by now working on a different and more desperate lie (in
fact he is suggesting the photo was made the same way he actually made his
own selective service card for "Alex J. Hidell".) Don't read all this as
one perfectly consistent tale. It's all just Oswald free-associating, and
denying whatever he feels he can (like owning a rifle, or needing curtain
rods).
"You can out-shoot a shooter," as the old cops say, "but you can't
out-shit a shitter." (Meaning out-bullshit a bullshit artist). No cop can
match Verbal Kint.
It's interesting that he didn't say it was "because I'm a Marxist" or
"because I support Castro and a free Cuba." No, it was because he had
*lived* in the Soviet Union. "Lived" there.

Of course, he did more than "live" there - he defected and expressed
admiration/support for the country - so his choice of that word is also
interesting.

He didn't believe, it seems to me, that he'd survive the assassination. He
kept the Hidell card in his wallet, the BYPs were still in the garage and
among his possessions. Any long term plan - with others or by himself -
would have destroyed that evidence. So he had no plan if he was caught, no
defense. He was just winging it, grabbing at anything he could think of.
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-16 05:20:51 UTC
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Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Steve BH
Patsy, patsy. Oswald says he's just a "patsy" but we never take him at his
real meaning. We should remember it.
His full quote is: "No, they are taking me in because of the fact that I
lived in the Soviet Union. I'm just a patsy!"
Meaning: I'm a member of an easy-to-blame-group. Same as "They pulled me
over because I was black; I'm just a patsy." Or "They rounded up all the
usual suspects; I'm a patsy!"
As Oswald meant it, it does NOT mean somebody individually and
specifically set-up, and carefully framed in some very expert way. NO! But
somehow, we assume that's what he was saying to us AT THAT TIME. He
wasn't. Even the guy's lies are misunderstood ("patsy" used to me simply
"fool.") The word is not used much these days, and everybody
misunderstands Oswald here. But it's easy enough in context to get what he
ACTUALLY means. It conveys the idea of group-prejudice and simple
stupidity, not massive clockwork manufacturing of evidence to fit some
long pre-arranged fall-guy.
Yes, sure, Oswald (later) talking about somebody pasting his photo head on
somebody else's body in the backyard photo they showed him, sounds indeed
a claim of a careful frame-up. But that's now a different and later day
and Oswald is by now working on a different and more desperate lie (in
fact he is suggesting the photo was made the same way he actually made his
own selective service card for "Alex J. Hidell".) Don't read all this as
one perfectly consistent tale. It's all just Oswald free-associating, and
denying whatever he feels he can (like owning a rifle, or needing curtain
rods).
"You can out-shoot a shooter," as the old cops say, "but you can't
out-shit a shitter." (Meaning out-bullshit a bullshit artist). No cop can
match Verbal Kint.
It's interesting that he didn't say it was "because I'm a Marxist" or
"because I support Castro and a free Cuba." No, it was because he had
*lived* in the Soviet Union. "Lived" there.
Of course, he did more than "live" there - he defected and expressed
admiration/support for the country - so his choice of that word is also
interesting.
Exactly. That's why the chose him to frame.
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
He didn't believe, it seems to me, that he'd survive the assassination. He
kept the Hidell card in his wallet, the BYPs were still in the garage and
among his possessions. Any long term plan - with others or by himself -
would have destroyed that evidence. So he had no plan if he was caught, no
Why would conspirators out to frame him want to destroy evidence that
makes him look bad?
Is that what they did when they framed Dreyfus?
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
defense. He was just winging it, grabbing at anything he could think of.
No, silly. He was paranoid.
mainframetech
2018-06-16 16:16:19 UTC
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Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Steve BH
Patsy, patsy. Oswald says he's just a "patsy" but we never take him at his
real meaning. We should remember it.
His full quote is: "No, they are taking me in because of the fact that I
lived in the Soviet Union. I'm just a patsy!"
Meaning: I'm a member of an easy-to-blame-group. Same as "They pulled me
over because I was black; I'm just a patsy." Or "They rounded up all the
usual suspects; I'm a patsy!"
As Oswald meant it, it does NOT mean somebody individually and
specifically set-up, and carefully framed in some very expert way. NO! But
somehow, we assume that's what he was saying to us AT THAT TIME. He
wasn't. Even the guy's lies are misunderstood ("patsy" used to me simply
"fool.") The word is not used much these days, and everybody
misunderstands Oswald here. But it's easy enough in context to get what he
ACTUALLY means. It conveys the idea of group-prejudice and simple
stupidity, not massive clockwork manufacturing of evidence to fit some
long pre-arranged fall-guy.
Yes, sure, Oswald (later) talking about somebody pasting his photo head on
somebody else's body in the backyard photo they showed him, sounds indeed
a claim of a careful frame-up. But that's now a different and later day
and Oswald is by now working on a different and more desperate lie (in
fact he is suggesting the photo was made the same way he actually made his
own selective service card for "Alex J. Hidell".) Don't read all this as
one perfectly consistent tale. It's all just Oswald free-associating, and
denying whatever he feels he can (like owning a rifle, or needing curtain
rods).
"You can out-shoot a shooter," as the old cops say, "but you can't
out-shit a shitter." (Meaning out-bullshit a bullshit artist). No cop can
match Verbal Kint.
It's interesting that he didn't say it was "because I'm a Marxist" or
"because I support Castro and a free Cuba." No, it was because he had
*lived* in the Soviet Union. "Lived" there.
Of course, he did more than "live" there - he defected and expressed
admiration/support for the country - so his choice of that word is also
interesting.
He would have to say something like that to be accepted to live
there.
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
He didn't believe, it seems to me, that he'd survive the assassination. He
kept the Hidell card in his wallet, the BYPs were still in the garage and
among his possessions. Any long term plan - with others or by himself -
would have destroyed that evidence. So he had no plan if he was caught, no
defense. He was just winging it, grabbing at anything he could think of.
Realizing he had been set up, he took off to save himself and perhaps
to look for the person(s) that set him up. That might explain his going
home to get his weapon first.

Chris

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