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A Cruel and Shocking Act
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claviger
2018-08-09 23:06:57 UTC
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Cartographic Concepts

A Cruel and Shocking Act,
The Secret History of the Kennedy Assassination
By Philip Shenon
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.htmlThe single bullet

The single-bullet theory
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claviger
2018-08-10 20:31:28 UTC
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Post by claviger
Cartographic Concepts
A Cruel and Shocking Act,
The Secret History of the Kennedy Assassination
By Philip Shenon
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.html
The single-bullet theory
http://www.mapmanusa.com/images/book-maps/philip-Shenon-Cruel-and-shocking-single-bullet-theory.jpg
Try again:
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.html
Anthony Marsh
2018-08-12 16:12:21 UTC
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Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Cartographic Concepts
A Cruel and Shocking Act,
The Secret History of the Kennedy Assassination
By Philip Shenon
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.html
The single-bullet theory
http://www.mapmanusa.com/images/book-maps/philip-Shenon-Cruel-and-shocking-single-bullet-theory.jpg
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.html
That one worked. Interesting, but they have they have the bullet hitting
Connally in the wrong place.
They always have to LIE about something to get the SBT to work.
Anthony Marsh
2018-08-13 19:08:41 UTC
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Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Cartographic Concepts
A Cruel and Shocking Act,
The Secret History of the Kennedy Assassination
By Philip Shenon
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.html
The single-bullet theory
http://www.mapmanusa.com/images/book-maps/philip-Shenon-Cruel-and-shocking-single-bullet-theory.jpg
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.html
==================
Did Oswald do any "work at the office" that morning?
fn
Which office? Oswald was a laborer.
claviger
2018-08-14 01:02:20 UTC
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Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Cartographic Concepts
A Cruel and Shocking Act,
The Secret History of the Kennedy Assassination
By Philip Shenon
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.html
The single-bullet theory
http://www.mapmanusa.com/images/book-maps/philip-Shenon-Cruel-and-shocking-single-bullet-theory.jpg
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.html
==================
Did Oswald do any "work at the office" that morning?
fn
He was seen on the 5th and 6th floors that morning with
a clipboard going about his normal job.
John McAdams
2018-08-14 01:04:30 UTC
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Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Cartographic Concepts
A Cruel and Shocking Act,
The Secret History of the Kennedy Assassination
By Philip Shenon
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.html
The single-bullet theory
http://www.mapmanusa.com/images/book-maps/philip-Shenon-Cruel-and-shocking-single-bullet-theory.jpg
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.html
==================
Did Oswald do any "work at the office" that morning?
fn
He was seen on the 5th and 6th floors that morning with
a clipboard going about his normal job.
No, Oswald's clipboard was found after the assassination with no
orders filled.

https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0084a.htm

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Steve M. Galbraith
2018-08-14 19:48:47 UTC
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Post by John McAdams
Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Cartographic Concepts
A Cruel and Shocking Act,
The Secret History of the Kennedy Assassination
By Philip Shenon
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.html
The single-bullet theory
http://www.mapmanusa.com/images/book-maps/philip-Shenon-Cruel-and-shocking-single-bullet-theory.jpg
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.html
==================
Did Oswald do any "work at the office" that morning?
fn
He was seen on the 5th and 6th floors that morning with
a clipboard going about his normal job.
No, Oswald's clipboard was found after the assassination with no
orders filled.
https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0084a.htm
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Yes but Truly testified that there would be no way of knowing whether
Oswald had filled orders or not that day. It's not clear to me what he's
saying here though.

Here's the relevant testimony:

Representative FORD. What I am trying to find out--is there any way to
trace by the orders that were filled by Oswald on the morning of November
22d as to whether or not in the process of filling orders he was taken to
the sixth floor?

Mr. TRULY. No, sir; we could not tell whether he fired any orders that
might be dated November 22d-- might have been filled--if they were dated
November 22d and had Oswald's number on it, we would know that he filled
those on November 22d. But if they were billed and dated on the 20th and
21st, and there was a number of those filled, we could not tell how many
filled on the 22d.

And a bit later:

Mr. TRULY. We have thousands and thousands of accounts, and they run from
A to Z alphabetically in our files. We would have to take we would have to
go through every invoice in each file, from A to Z, in order to find any
orders he might have filled on that day. And it would he hard to prove
that he filled them on that date because, unless we found one that had his
number on it and was dated November 22d--because we know he wasn't there
after that--but if it was dated November 21st, he could easily-have filled
a good number of those orders that morning of the 22d. But we could not
tell whether he filled them the 21st or the 22d."
Anthony Marsh
2018-08-15 15:27:01 UTC
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Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by John McAdams
Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Cartographic Concepts
A Cruel and Shocking Act,
The Secret History of the Kennedy Assassination
By Philip Shenon
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.html
The single-bullet theory
http://www.mapmanusa.com/images/book-maps/philip-Shenon-Cruel-and-shocking-single-bullet-theory.jpg
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.html
==================
Did Oswald do any "work at the office" that morning?
fn
He was seen on the 5th and 6th floors that morning with
a clipboard going about his normal job.
No, Oswald's clipboard was found after the assassination with no
orders filled.
https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0084a.htm
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Yes but Truly testified that there would be no way of knowing whether
Oswald had filled orders or not that day. It's not clear to me what he's
saying here though.
But .John doesn't care about that. Stop confusing him with facts.
Why couldn't Oswald have lied on the worksheet to make it look like he
was working hard?
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Representative FORD. What I am trying to find out--is there any way to
trace by the orders that were filled by Oswald on the morning of November
22d as to whether or not in the process of filling orders he was taken to
the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. No, sir; we could not tell whether he fired any orders that
might be dated November 22d-- might have been filled--if they were dated
November 22d and had Oswald's number on it, we would know that he filled
those on November 22d. But if they were billed and dated on the 20th and
21st, and there was a number of those filled, we could not tell how many
filled on the 22d.
Mr. TRULY. We have thousands and thousands of accounts, and they run from
A to Z alphabetically in our files. We would have to take we would have to
go through every invoice in each file, from A to Z, in order to find any
orders he might have filled on that day. And it would he hard to prove
that he filled them on that date because, unless we found one that had his
number on it and was dated November 22d--because we know he wasn't there
after that--but if it was dated November 21st, he could easily-have filled
a good number of those orders that morning of the 22d. But we could not
tell whether he filled them the 21st or the 22d."
Gee, that sounds like it would be uncomfortably like real research.
Better to get a computer to do it.
Steve M. Galbraith
2018-08-15 15:29:46 UTC
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Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by John McAdams
Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Cartographic Concepts
A Cruel and Shocking Act,
The Secret History of the Kennedy Assassination
By Philip Shenon
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.html
The single-bullet theory
http://www.mapmanusa.com/images/book-maps/philip-Shenon-Cruel-and-shocking-single-bullet-theory.jpg
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.html
==================
Did Oswald do any "work at the office" that morning?
fn
He was seen on the 5th and 6th floors that morning with
a clipboard going about his normal job.
No, Oswald's clipboard was found after the assassination with no
orders filled.
https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0084a.htm
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Yes but Truly testified that there would be no way of knowing whether
Oswald had filled orders or not that day. It's not clear to me what he's
saying here though.
Representative FORD. What I am trying to find out--is there any way to
trace by the orders that were filled by Oswald on the morning of November
22d as to whether or not in the process of filling orders he was taken to
the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. No, sir; we could not tell whether he fired any orders that
might be dated November 22d-- might have been filled--if they were dated
November 22d and had Oswald's number on it, we would know that he filled
those on November 22d. But if they were billed and dated on the 20th and
21st, and there was a number of those filled, we could not tell how many
filled on the 22d.
Mr. TRULY. We have thousands and thousands of accounts, and they run from
A to Z alphabetically in our files. We would have to take we would have to
go through every invoice in each file, from A to Z, in order to find any
orders he might have filled on that day. And it would he hard to prove
that he filled them on that date because, unless we found one that had his
number on it and was dated November 22d--because we know he wasn't there
after that--but if it was dated November 21st, he could easily-have filled
a good number of those orders that morning of the 22d. But we could not
tell whether he filled them the 21st or the 22d."
It's not clear to me that Truly is saying it would be impossible to
determine WHICH specific orders Oswald may have filled - e.g., books
located on various floors and therefore which floor Oswald would have
visited - versus whether he filled any orders at all.

I assume they had some way of knowing whether the order fillers did any
work and weren't goofing off.
claviger
2018-08-14 19:54:18 UTC
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Post by John McAdams
Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Cartographic Concepts
A Cruel and Shocking Act,
The Secret History of the Kennedy Assassination
By Philip Shenon
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.html
The single-bullet theory
http://www.mapmanusa.com/images/book-maps/philip-Shenon-Cruel-and-shocking-single-bullet-theory.jpg
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.html
==================
Did Oswald do any "work at the office" that morning?
fn
He was seen on the 5th and 6th floors that morning with
a clipboard going about his normal job.
No, Oswald's clipboard was found after the assassination with no
orders filled.
https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0084a.htm
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
OK, thanks. Which means he focused all his attention on ambushing the
Presidential motorcade. More evidence he was a sniper with one thing in
mind.
Anthony Marsh
2018-08-15 15:27:10 UTC
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Post by claviger
Post by John McAdams
Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Cartographic Concepts
A Cruel and Shocking Act,
The Secret History of the Kennedy Assassination
By Philip Shenon
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.html
The single-bullet theory
http://www.mapmanusa.com/images/book-maps/philip-Shenon-Cruel-and-shocking-single-bullet-theory.jpg
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.html
==================
Did Oswald do any "work at the office" that morning?
fn
He was seen on the 5th and 6th floors that morning with
a clipboard going about his normal job.
No, Oswald's clipboard was found after the assassination with no
orders filled.
https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0084a.htm
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
OK, thanks. Which means he focused all his attention on ambushing the
Presidential motorcade. More evidence he was a sniper with one thing in
mind.
There you go again, jumping to conclusions. Maybe he spent all that time
reading the newspaper.
mainframetech
2018-08-15 23:00:41 UTC
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Post by claviger
Post by John McAdams
Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Cartographic Concepts
A Cruel and Shocking Act,
The Secret History of the Kennedy Assassination
By Philip Shenon
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.html
The single-bullet theory
http://www.mapmanusa.com/images/book-maps/philip-Shenon-Cruel-and-shocking-single-bullet-theory.jpg
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.html
==================
Did Oswald do any "work at the office" that morning?
fn
He was seen on the 5th and 6th floors that morning with
a clipboard going about his normal job.
No, Oswald's clipboard was found after the assassination with no
orders filled.
https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0084a.htm
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
OK, thanks. Which means he focused all his attention on ambushing the
Presidential motorcade. More evidence he was a sniper with one thing in
mind.
It sounded to me like Truly said they couldn't tell if Oswald filled
orders or not.

Chris
claviger
2018-08-14 19:56:18 UTC
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Post by John McAdams
Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Cartographic Concepts
A Cruel and Shocking Act,
The Secret History of the Kennedy Assassination
By Philip Shenon
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.html
The single-bullet theory
http://www.mapmanusa.com/images/book-maps/philip-Shenon-Cruel-and-shocking-single-bullet-theory.jpg
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.html
==================
Did Oswald do any "work at the office" that morning?
fn
He was seen on the 5th and 6th floors that morning with
a clipboard going about his normal job.
No, Oswald's clipboard was found after the assassination with no
orders filled.
https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0084a.htm
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
So LHO focussed ALL HIS TIME on ambushing the President for the
entire morning, which proves intent beyond a shadow of doubt.
Mark
2018-08-15 15:39:27 UTC
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Post by claviger
Post by John McAdams
Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Cartographic Concepts
A Cruel and Shocking Act,
The Secret History of the Kennedy Assassination
By Philip Shenon
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.html
The single-bullet theory
http://www.mapmanusa.com/images/book-maps/philip-Shenon-Cruel-and-shocking-single-bullet-theory.jpg
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.html
==================
Did Oswald do any "work at the office" that morning?
fn
He was seen on the 5th and 6th floors that morning with
a clipboard going about his normal job.
No, Oswald's clipboard was found after the assassination with no
orders filled.
https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0084a.htm
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
So LHO focussed ALL HIS TIME on ambushing the President for the
entire morning, which proves intent beyond a shadow of doubt.
I'm pretty sure LHO had something else on his mind that morning besides
getting books on time to school districts and their kids.

Mark
mainframetech
2018-08-15 23:00:22 UTC
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Post by claviger
Post by John McAdams
Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Cartographic Concepts
A Cruel and Shocking Act,
The Secret History of the Kennedy Assassination
By Philip Shenon
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.html
The single-bullet theory
http://www.mapmanusa.com/images/book-maps/philip-Shenon-Cruel-and-shocking-single-bullet-theory.jpg
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.html
==================
Did Oswald do any "work at the office" that morning?
fn
He was seen on the 5th and 6th floors that morning with
a clipboard going about his normal job.
No, Oswald's clipboard was found after the assassination with no
orders filled.
https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0084a.htm
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
So LHO focussed ALL HIS TIME on ambushing the President for the
entire morning, which proves intent beyond a shadow of doubt.
Or he was being held at the point of a gun on the 7th floor by a
plotter who was later going to let him take the fall for the killing, or
even on the 6th floor, and made him set up the 'nest'.

You have no clue about what was being done all morning. Try not to
make your fiction novel look like the truth.

Chris
Anthony Marsh
2018-08-15 04:07:39 UTC
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Post by John McAdams
Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Cartographic Concepts
A Cruel and Shocking Act,
The Secret History of the Kennedy Assassination
By Philip Shenon
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.html
The single-bullet theory
http://www.mapmanusa.com/images/book-maps/philip-Shenon-Cruel-and-shocking-single-bullet-theory.jpg
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.html
==================
Did Oswald do any "work at the office" that morning?
fn
He was seen on the 5th and 6th floors that morning with
a clipboard going about his normal job.
No, Oswald's clipboard was found after the assassination with no
orders filled.
https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0084a.htm
Well, doesn't your strawman argument require him to take several hours
to construct the sniper's nest from scratch? And no one noticed? Because
Givens used it as a smoker's nook to hide his smoking weed?
Post by John McAdams
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Anthony Marsh
2018-08-15 04:07:28 UTC
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Permalink
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Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Cartographic Concepts
A Cruel and Shocking Act,
The Secret History of the Kennedy Assassination
By Philip Shenon
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.html
The single-bullet theory
http://www.mapmanusa.com/images/book-maps/philip-Shenon-Cruel-and-shocking-single-bullet-theory.jpg
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.html
==================
Did Oswald do any "work at the office" that morning?
fn
He was seen on the 5th and 6th floors that morning with
a clipboard going about his normal job.
But look at the worksheet. SHOW us the worksheet.
Steve M. Galbraith
2018-08-11 03:57:31 UTC
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Permalink
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Post by claviger
Cartographic Concepts
A Cruel and Shocking Act,
The Secret History of the Kennedy Assassination
By Philip Shenon
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.htmlThe single bullet
The single-bullet theory
http://www.mapmanusa.com/images/book-maps/philip-Shenon-Cruel-and-shocking-single-bullet-theory.jpg
It's a disappointing book if you're a assassination buff/student; if
you're a general audience reader it might be interesting. There's nothing
really new in it although in fairness to Shenon what new things can we
learn after a half century of digging?

He throws out a lot of hints about Oswald in Mexico City - he mentions
Mann and Charles Thomas of the State Department, two individuals who
pushed hard on allegations about Oswald being seen with Cuban agents (the
"Twist" party et cetera) being seen together - but never really develops
them much.
Anthony Marsh
2018-08-12 19:14:40 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by claviger
Cartographic Concepts
A Cruel and Shocking Act,
The Secret History of the Kennedy Assassination
By Philip Shenon
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.htmlThe single bullet
The single-bullet theory
http://www.mapmanusa.com/images/book-maps/philip-Shenon-Cruel-and-shocking-single-bullet-theory.jpg
It's a disappointing book if you're a assassination buff/student; if
you're a general audience reader it might be interesting. There's nothing
really new in it although in fairness to Shenon what new things can we
learn after a half century of digging?
He throws out a lot of hints about Oswald in Mexico City - he mentions
Mann and Charles Thomas of the State Department, two individuals who
pushed hard on allegations about Oswald being seen with Cuban agents (the
"Twist" party et cetera) being seen together - but never really develops
them much.
It's part of a CIA disinformation program to blame the JFK assassination
on the Cubans. It started immediately after the shooting with the hoaxes.

http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/cubahoax.htm
Steve M. Galbraith
2018-08-13 14:56:43 UTC
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Permalink
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Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by claviger
Cartographic Concepts
A Cruel and Shocking Act,
The Secret History of the Kennedy Assassination
By Philip Shenon
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.htmlThe single bullet
The single-bullet theory
http://www.mapmanusa.com/images/book-maps/philip-Shenon-Cruel-and-shocking-single-bullet-theory.jpg
It's a disappointing book if you're a assassination buff/student; if
you're a general audience reader it might be interesting. There's nothing
really new in it although in fairness to Shenon what new things can we
learn after a half century of digging?
He throws out a lot of hints about Oswald in Mexico City - he mentions
Mann and Charles Thomas of the State Department, two individuals who
pushed hard on allegations about Oswald being seen with Cuban agents (the
"Twist" party et cetera) being seen together - but never really develops
them much.
It's part of a CIA disinformation program to blame the JFK assassination
on the Cubans. It started immediately after the shooting with the hoaxes.
http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/cubahoax.htm
The claim about the so-called "Twist" party was, from what I've read, not
made by anyone working for the CIA. The sources apparently were Elena
Garro Paz (wife of the famous poet Octavio Paz) and her daughter. Neither
worked for the CIA or made the claim under CIA direction. In fact, it was
the CIA who looked into the claims and concluded there was nothing to
them.

Nothing in your link shows that the CIA was behind any of these
allegations that Oswald met with or was seen with Cuban agents or
personnel.
Anthony Marsh
2018-08-14 15:27:19 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by claviger
Cartographic Concepts
A Cruel and Shocking Act,
The Secret History of the Kennedy Assassination
By Philip Shenon
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.htmlThe single bullet
The single-bullet theory
http://www.mapmanusa.com/images/book-maps/philip-Shenon-Cruel-and-shocking-single-bullet-theory.jpg
It's a disappointing book if you're a assassination buff/student; if
you're a general audience reader it might be interesting. There's nothing
really new in it although in fairness to Shenon what new things can we
learn after a half century of digging?
He throws out a lot of hints about Oswald in Mexico City - he mentions
Mann and Charles Thomas of the State Department, two individuals who
pushed hard on allegations about Oswald being seen with Cuban agents (the
"Twist" party et cetera) being seen together - but never really develops
them much.
It's part of a CIA disinformation program to blame the JFK assassination
on the Cubans. It started immediately after the shooting with the hoaxes.
http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/cubahoax.htm
The claim about the so-called "Twist" party was, from what I've read, not
made by anyone working for the CIA. The sources apparently were Elena
Garro Paz (wife of the famous poet Octavio Paz) and her daughter. Neither
worked for the CIA or made the claim under CIA direction. In fact, it was
the CIA who looked into the claims and concluded there was nothing to
them.
Nothing in your link shows that the CIA was behind any of these
allegations that Oswald met with or was seen with Cuban agents or
personnel.
Frank Sturgis
Steve M. Galbraith
2018-08-15 02:04:29 UTC
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Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by claviger
Cartographic Concepts
A Cruel and Shocking Act,
The Secret History of the Kennedy Assassination
By Philip Shenon
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.htmlThe single bullet
The single-bullet theory
http://www.mapmanusa.com/images/book-maps/philip-Shenon-Cruel-and-shocking-single-bullet-theory.jpg
It's a disappointing book if you're a assassination buff/student; if
you're a general audience reader it might be interesting. There's nothing
really new in it although in fairness to Shenon what new things can we
learn after a half century of digging?
He throws out a lot of hints about Oswald in Mexico City - he mentions
Mann and Charles Thomas of the State Department, two individuals who
pushed hard on allegations about Oswald being seen with Cuban agents (the
"Twist" party et cetera) being seen together - but never really develops
them much.
It's part of a CIA disinformation program to blame the JFK assassination
on the Cubans. It started immediately after the shooting with the hoaxes.
http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/cubahoax.htm
The claim about the so-called "Twist" party was, from what I've read, not
made by anyone working for the CIA. The sources apparently were Elena
Garro Paz (wife of the famous poet Octavio Paz) and her daughter. Neither
worked for the CIA or made the claim under CIA direction. In fact, it was
the CIA who looked into the claims and concluded there was nothing to
them.
Nothing in your link shows that the CIA was behind any of these
allegations that Oswald met with or was seen with Cuban agents or
personnel.
Frank Sturgis
What is the evidence that Sturgis was promoting the "Castro killed JFK"
claims on behalf of or on orders from the CIA?

Your links show that the CIA in MC was knocking down these stories about
Havana's involvement. Win Scott reportedly dismissed Elena Garo's story
about the "twist" party and said she was a crackpot.
mainframetech
2018-08-15 22:59:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by claviger
Cartographic Concepts
A Cruel and Shocking Act,
The Secret History of the Kennedy Assassination
By Philip Shenon
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.htmlThe single bullet
The single-bullet theory
http://www.mapmanusa.com/images/book-maps/philip-Shenon-Cruel-and-shocking-single-bullet-theory.jpg
It's a disappointing book if you're a assassination buff/student; if
you're a general audience reader it might be interesting. There's nothing
really new in it although in fairness to Shenon what new things can we
learn after a half century of digging?
He throws out a lot of hints about Oswald in Mexico City - he mentions
Mann and Charles Thomas of the State Department, two individuals who
pushed hard on allegations about Oswald being seen with Cuban agents (the
"Twist" party et cetera) being seen together - but never really develops
them much.
It's part of a CIA disinformation program to blame the JFK assassination
on the Cubans. It started immediately after the shooting with the hoaxes.
http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/cubahoax.htm
The claim about the so-called "Twist" party was, from what I've read, not
made by anyone working for the CIA. The sources apparently were Elena
Garro Paz (wife of the famous poet Octavio Paz) and her daughter. Neither
worked for the CIA or made the claim under CIA direction. In fact, it was
the CIA who looked into the claims and concluded there was nothing to
them.
Nothing in your link shows that the CIA was behind any of these
allegations that Oswald met with or was seen with Cuban agents or
personnel.
Frank Sturgis
What is the evidence that Sturgis was promoting the "Castro killed JFK"
claims on behalf of or on orders from the CIA?
Your links show that the CIA in MC was knocking down these stories about
Havana's involvement. Win Scott reportedly dismissed Elena Garo's story
about the "twist" party and said she was a crackpot.
Perhaps they were trying to avoid war with Cuba.

Chris
Anthony Marsh
2018-08-16 02:18:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by claviger
Cartographic Concepts
A Cruel and Shocking Act,
The Secret History of the Kennedy Assassination
By Philip Shenon
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.htmlThe single bullet
The single-bullet theory
http://www.mapmanusa.com/images/book-maps/philip-Shenon-Cruel-and-shocking-single-bullet-theory.jpg
It's a disappointing book if you're a assassination buff/student; if
you're a general audience reader it might be interesting. There's nothing
really new in it although in fairness to Shenon what new things can we
learn after a half century of digging?
He throws out a lot of hints about Oswald in Mexico City - he mentions
Mann and Charles Thomas of the State Department, two individuals who
pushed hard on allegations about Oswald being seen with Cuban agents (the
"Twist" party et cetera) being seen together - but never really develops
them much.
It's part of a CIA disinformation program to blame the JFK assassination
on the Cubans. It started immediately after the shooting with the hoaxes.
http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/cubahoax.htm
The claim about the so-called "Twist" party was, from what I've read, not
made by anyone working for the CIA. The sources apparently were Elena
Garro Paz (wife of the famous poet Octavio Paz) and her daughter. Neither
worked for the CIA or made the claim under CIA direction. In fact, it was
the CIA who looked into the claims and concluded there was nothing to
them.
Nothing in your link shows that the CIA was behind any of these
allegations that Oswald met with or was seen with Cuban agents or
personnel.
Frank Sturgis
What is the evidence that Sturgis was promoting the "Castro killed JFK"
claims on behalf of or on orders from the CIA?
I didn't say on the orders. Frank Sturgis was a CIA agent.
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Your links show that the CIA in MC was knocking down these stories about
Havana's involvement. Win Scott reportedly dismissed Elena Garo's story
about the "twist" party and said she was a crackpot.
Something like that. Days later. Phillips broke Alverado.
Steve M. Galbraith
2018-08-17 20:43:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by claviger
Cartographic Concepts
A Cruel and Shocking Act,
The Secret History of the Kennedy Assassination
By Philip Shenon
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.htmlThe single bullet
The single-bullet theory
http://www.mapmanusa.com/images/book-maps/philip-Shenon-Cruel-and-shocking-single-bullet-theory.jpg
It's a disappointing book if you're a assassination buff/student; if
you're a general audience reader it might be interesting. There's nothing
really new in it although in fairness to Shenon what new things can we
learn after a half century of digging?
He throws out a lot of hints about Oswald in Mexico City - he mentions
Mann and Charles Thomas of the State Department, two individuals who
pushed hard on allegations about Oswald being seen with Cuban agents (the
"Twist" party et cetera) being seen together - but never really develops
them much.
It's part of a CIA disinformation program to blame the JFK assassination
on the Cubans. It started immediately after the shooting with the hoaxes.
http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/cubahoax.htm
The claim about the so-called "Twist" party was, from what I've read, not
made by anyone working for the CIA. The sources apparently were Elena
Garro Paz (wife of the famous poet Octavio Paz) and her daughter. Neither
worked for the CIA or made the claim under CIA direction. In fact, it was
the CIA who looked into the claims and concluded there was nothing to
them.
Nothing in your link shows that the CIA was behind any of these
allegations that Oswald met with or was seen with Cuban agents or
personnel.
Frank Sturgis
What is the evidence that Sturgis was promoting the "Castro killed JFK"
claims on behalf of or on orders from the CIA?
I didn't say on the orders. Frank Sturgis was a CIA agent.
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Your links show that the CIA in MC was knocking down these stories about
Havana's involvement. Win Scott reportedly dismissed Elena Garo's story
about the "twist" party and said she was a crackpot.
Something like that. Days later. Phillips broke Alverado.
You're still repeating the Sturgis was a CIA agent claim?

Even though it's been knocked down for years?

I shouldn't be surprised and I'm not.

And you still haven't presented a lick of evidence that people in the CIA
were disseminating false "Castro killed JFK" stories.
Anthony Marsh
2018-08-18 14:29:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by claviger
Cartographic Concepts
A Cruel and Shocking Act,
The Secret History of the Kennedy Assassination
By Philip Shenon
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.htmlThe single bullet
The single-bullet theory
http://www.mapmanusa.com/images/book-maps/philip-Shenon-Cruel-and-shocking-single-bullet-theory.jpg
It's a disappointing book if you're a assassination buff/student; if
you're a general audience reader it might be interesting. There's nothing
really new in it although in fairness to Shenon what new things can we
learn after a half century of digging?
He throws out a lot of hints about Oswald in Mexico City - he mentions
Mann and Charles Thomas of the State Department, two individuals who
pushed hard on allegations about Oswald being seen with Cuban agents (the
"Twist" party et cetera) being seen together - but never really develops
them much.
It's part of a CIA disinformation program to blame the JFK assassination
on the Cubans. It started immediately after the shooting with the hoaxes.
http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/cubahoax.htm
The claim about the so-called "Twist" party was, from what I've read, not
made by anyone working for the CIA. The sources apparently were Elena
Garro Paz (wife of the famous poet Octavio Paz) and her daughter. Neither
worked for the CIA or made the claim under CIA direction. In fact, it was
the CIA who looked into the claims and concluded there was nothing to
them.
Nothing in your link shows that the CIA was behind any of these
allegations that Oswald met with or was seen with Cuban agents or
personnel.
Frank Sturgis
What is the evidence that Sturgis was promoting the "Castro killed JFK"
claims on behalf of or on orders from the CIA?
I didn't say on the orders. Frank Sturgis was a CIA agent.
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Your links show that the CIA in MC was knocking down these stories about
Havana's involvement. Win Scott reportedly dismissed Elena Garo's story
about the "twist" party and said she was a crackpot.
Something like that. Days later. Phillips broke Alverado.
You're still repeating the Sturgis was a CIA agent claim?
Even though it's been knocked down for years?
WTF are you talking about? Helms admitted in testimony under oath. Are you
calling Helms a liar? Sturgis admitted it. Are you calling Sturgis a liar?
Is that your ONLY way out of his, to call everyone at the CIA liars?
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
I shouldn't be surprised and I'm not.
And you still haven't presented a lick of evidence that people in the CIA
were disseminating false "Castro killed JFK" stories.
My article did and I didn't say "IN the CIA"
My father was not IN the CIA. He was IN the NSA, but the CIA and the NSA
worked together on joint projects.
John McAdams
2018-08-18 14:31:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On 18 Aug 2018 10:29:10 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Anthony Marsh
Something like that. Days later. Phillips broke Alverado.
You're still repeating the Sturgis was a CIA agent claim?
Even though it's been knocked down for years?
WTF are you talking about? Helms admitted in testimony under oath.
Point us to a source, Tony.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Are you
calling Helms a liar? Sturgis admitted it. Are you calling Sturgis a liar?
Is that your ONLY way out of his, to call everyone at the CIA liars?
"Admitted it?" Or claimed it?

Somehow Tony thinks that nobody would claim to be CIA to inflate their
own status.

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Bill Clarke
2018-08-19 01:16:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by John McAdams
On 18 Aug 2018 10:29:10 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Anthony Marsh
Something like that. Days later. Phillips broke Alverado.
You're still repeating the Sturgis was a CIA agent claim?
Even though it's been knocked down for years?
WTF are you talking about? Helms admitted in testimony under oath.
Point us to a source, Tony.
Now John, be prepared for, at best, a list of lengthy references with none
of them pertaining to the subject at hand. It is tdhe Marsh way.
Post by John McAdams
Post by Anthony Marsh
Are you
calling Helms a liar? Sturgis admitted it. Are you calling Sturgis a liar?
Is that your ONLY way out of his, to call everyone at the CIA liars?
"Admitted it?" Or claimed it?
Somehow Tony thinks that nobody would claim to be CIA to inflate their
own status.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Anthony Marsh
2018-08-20 01:55:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bill Clarke
Post by John McAdams
On 18 Aug 2018 10:29:10 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Anthony Marsh
Something like that. Days later. Phillips broke Alverado.
You're still repeating the Sturgis was a CIA agent claim?
Even though it's been knocked down for years?
WTF are you talking about? Helms admitted in testimony under oath.
Point us to a source, Tony.
Now John, be prepared for, at best, a list of lengthy references with none
of them pertaining to the subject at hand. It is tdhe Marsh way.
Post by John McAdams
Post by Anthony Marsh
Are you
calling Helms a liar? Sturgis admitted it. Are you calling Sturgis a liar?
Is that your ONLY way out of his, to call everyone at the CIA liars?
"Admitted it?" Or claimed it?
Somehow Tony thinks that nobody would claim to be CIA to inflate their
own status.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Just like you, .John issues the same phony challenges every year and I
answer them every time. Learn how to Google.
Anthony Marsh
2018-08-19 01:17:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by John McAdams
On 18 Aug 2018 10:29:10 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Anthony Marsh
Something like that. Days later. Phillips broke Alverado.
You're still repeating the Sturgis was a CIA agent claim?
Even though it's been knocked down for years?
WTF are you talking about? Helms admitted in testimony under oath.
Point us to a source, Tony.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Are you
calling Helms a liar? Sturgis admitted it. Are you calling Sturgis a liar?
Is that your ONLY way out of his, to call everyone at the CIA liars?
"Admitted it?" Or claimed it?
Somehow Tony thinks that nobody would claim to be CIA to inflate their
own status.
Silly. Helms said it in his testimony.
We've been over this every year for 25 years. Can't you find your notes?


Another CIA document that was declassified in 1993 makes it clear that
Fiorini/Sturgis was a paid operative of the agency. The document dated
9th February, 1975, has the subject heading: "Telephone Call from John
Dean". The memo is signed JRS and is for the attention of General Vernon
Walters, Deputy Director of the CIA at that time. The memo includes the
following: "I discussed these matters with Bill Colby, who indicated
that Sturgis has not been on the payroll for a number of years and that
whatever his allegations about the Chilean Embassy, the Agency has no
connection at all."


https://books.google.com/books?id=nsItAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=helms+testimony+CIA+Frank+Sturgis+contract+agent&source=bl&ots=AO8vrN6C9l&sig=eujAoG7SFXfq9tJUYKnqgK2Loz8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjxiqa9gPfcAhUCZN8KHUAeBUEQ6AEwAnoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=helms%20testimony%20CIA%20Frank%20Sturgis%20contract%20agent&f=false


https://books.google.com/books?id=nsItAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=helms+sturgis++"contract+agent"&source=bl&ots=AO5AtO0Hej&sig=t9RCgc8utrf6xDfjqsObBmu61TU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj6gImcrqXXAhVG2IMKHUC3DtIQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=helms
sturgis "contract agent"&f=false


Try your same old tricks next year after the CIA files are released.
Post by John McAdams
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
John McAdams
2018-08-19 01:30:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On 18 Aug 2018 21:17:14 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
On 18 Aug 2018 10:29:10 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
WTF are you talking about? Helms admitted in testimony under oath.
Point us to a source, Tony.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Are you
calling Helms a liar? Sturgis admitted it. Are you calling Sturgis a liar?
Is that your ONLY way out of his, to call everyone at the CIA liars?
"Admitted it?" Or claimed it?
Somehow Tony thinks that nobody would claim to be CIA to inflate their
own status.
Silly. Helms said it in his testimony.
We've been over this every year for 25 years. Can't you find your notes?
Another CIA document that was declassified in 1993 makes it clear that
Fiorini/Sturgis was a paid operative of the agency. The document dated
9th February, 1975, has the subject heading: "Telephone Call from John
Dean". The memo is signed JRS and is for the attention of General Vernon
Walters, Deputy Director of the CIA at that time. The memo includes the
following: "I discussed these matters with Bill Colby, who indicated
that Sturgis has not been on the payroll for a number of years and that
whatever his allegations about the Chilean Embassy, the Agency has no
connection at all."
Where did you get this? It's not either of the links below?
Post by Anthony Marsh
https://books.google.com/books?id=nsItAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=helms+testimony+CIA+Frank+Sturgis+contract+agent&source=bl&ots=AO8vrN6C9l&sig=eujAoG7SFXfq9tJUYKnqgK2Loz8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjxiqa9gPfcAhUCZN8KHUAeBUEQ6AEwAnoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=helms%20testimony%20CIA%20Frank%20Sturgis%20contract%20agent&f=false
This is Marita Lorenz. Do you consider her reliable?
Post by Anthony Marsh
https://books.google.com/books?id=nsItAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=helms+sturgis++"contract+agent"&source=bl&ots=AO5AtO0Hej&sig=t9RCgc8utrf6xDfjqsObBmu61TU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj6gImcrqXXAhVG2IMKHUC3DtIQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=helms
sturgis "contract agent"&f=false
I can't get the link to work, but it points to Mark Lane's LAST WORD,
when when I search that I find Lane *claiming* that Helms said Sturgis
was a contract agent.

But I was looking for a *primary* souce.

You don't expect me to take Mark Lane's word, do you?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Try your same old tricks next year after the CIA files are released.
You are still batting zero, Tony.

Can't produce a document, can you?

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Anthony Marsh
2018-08-20 01:56:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by John McAdams
On 18 Aug 2018 21:17:14 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
On 18 Aug 2018 10:29:10 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
WTF are you talking about? Helms admitted in testimony under oath.
Point us to a source, Tony.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Are you
calling Helms a liar? Sturgis admitted it. Are you calling Sturgis a liar?
Is that your ONLY way out of his, to call everyone at the CIA liars?
"Admitted it?" Or claimed it?
Somehow Tony thinks that nobody would claim to be CIA to inflate their
own status.
Silly. Helms said it in his testimony.
We've been over this every year for 25 years. Can't you find your notes?
Another CIA document that was declassified in 1993 makes it clear that
Fiorini/Sturgis was a paid operative of the agency. The document dated
9th February, 1975, has the subject heading: "Telephone Call from John
Dean". The memo is signed JRS and is for the attention of General Vernon
Walters, Deputy Director of the CIA at that time. The memo includes the
following: "I discussed these matters with Bill Colby, who indicated
that Sturgis has not been on the payroll for a number of years and that
whatever his allegations about the Chilean Embassy, the Agency has no
connection at all."
Where did you get this? It's not either of the links below?
Post by Anthony Marsh
https://books.google.com/books?id=nsItAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=helms+testimony+CIA+Frank+Sturgis+contract+agent&source=bl&ots=AO8vrN6C9l&sig=eujAoG7SFXfq9tJUYKnqgK2Loz8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjxiqa9gPfcAhUCZN8KHUAeBUEQ6AEwAnoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=helms%20testimony%20CIA%20Frank%20Sturgis%20contract%20agent&f=false
This is Marita Lorenz. Do you consider her reliable?
No, but the CIA did and used her.
Post by John McAdams
Post by Anthony Marsh
https://books.google.com/books?id=nsItAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=helms+sturgis++"contract+agent"&source=bl&ots=AO5AtO0Hej&sig=t9RCgc8utrf6xDfjqsObBmu61TU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj6gImcrqXXAhVG2IMKHUC3DtIQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=helms
sturgis "contract agent"&f=false
I can't get the link to work, but it points to Mark Lane's LAST WORD,
when when I search that I find Lane *claiming* that Helms said Sturgis
was a contract agent.
Yes, we've been over this 200 times. I have the book, you don't. So as a
favor I post a link.
Post by John McAdams
But I was looking for a *primary* souce.
I warned you not to eat that souce today. It's off.
The primary source is the trial transcripts.
YOU have those, of course, but won't release them.
I publicly asked Mark Lane to send me all the materials so that I could
put them online for him, but he couldn't. Just as Harry Livingstone was
InterNet phobic so he asked me to monitor it for him.
Post by John McAdams
You don't expect me to take Mark Lane's word, do you?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Try your same old tricks next year after the CIA files are released.
You are still batting zero, Tony.
Can't produce a document, can you?
I did, many times.
Post by John McAdams
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
John McAdams
2018-08-20 02:00:28 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
On 19 Aug 2018 21:56:24 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
On 18 Aug 2018 21:17:14 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
On 18 Aug 2018 10:29:10 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
WTF are you talking about? Helms admitted in testimony under oath.
Point us to a source, Tony.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Are you
calling Helms a liar? Sturgis admitted it. Are you calling Sturgis a liar?
Is that your ONLY way out of his, to call everyone at the CIA liars?
"Admitted it?" Or claimed it?
Somehow Tony thinks that nobody would claim to be CIA to inflate their
own status.
Silly. Helms said it in his testimony.
We've been over this every year for 25 years. Can't you find your notes?
Another CIA document that was declassified in 1993 makes it clear that
Fiorini/Sturgis was a paid operative of the agency. The document dated
9th February, 1975, has the subject heading: "Telephone Call from John
Dean". The memo is signed JRS and is for the attention of General Vernon
Walters, Deputy Director of the CIA at that time. The memo includes the
following: "I discussed these matters with Bill Colby, who indicated
that Sturgis has not been on the payroll for a number of years and that
whatever his allegations about the Chilean Embassy, the Agency has no
connection at all."
Where did you get this? It's not either of the links below?
Post by Anthony Marsh
https://books.google.com/books?id=nsItAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=helms+testimony+CIA+Frank+Sturgis+contract+agent&source=bl&ots=AO8vrN6C9l&sig=eujAoG7SFXfq9tJUYKnqgK2Loz8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjxiqa9gPfcAhUCZN8KHUAeBUEQ6AEwAnoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=helms%20testimony%20CIA%20Frank%20Sturgis%20contract%20agent&f=false
This is Marita Lorenz. Do you consider her reliable?
No, but the CIA did and used her.
How about a source for this?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
Post by Anthony Marsh
https://books.google.com/books?id=nsItAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=helms+sturgis++"contract+agent"&source=bl&ots=AO5AtO0Hej&sig=t9RCgc8utrf6xDfjqsObBmu61TU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj6gImcrqXXAhVG2IMKHUC3DtIQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=helms
sturgis "contract agent"&f=false
I can't get the link to work, but it points to Mark Lane's LAST WORD,
when when I search that I find Lane *claiming* that Helms said Sturgis
was a contract agent.
Yes, we've been over this 200 times. I have the book, you don't. So as a
favor I post a link.
Post by John McAdams
But I was looking for a *primary* souce.
I warned you not to eat that souce today. It's off.
The primary source is the trial transcripts.
YOU have those, of course, but won't release them.
No I don't. Except for a few pages I posted as links from here:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/denial.htm
Post by Anthony Marsh
I publicly asked Mark Lane to send me all the materials so that I could
put them online for him, but he couldn't. Just as Harry Livingstone was
InterNet phobic so he asked me to monitor it for him.
So you admit you are just accepting what Mark Lane says.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
You don't expect me to take Mark Lane's word, do you?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Try your same old tricks next year after the CIA files are released.
You are still batting zero, Tony.
Can't produce a document, can you?
I did, many times.
You only produced the claims of Mark Lane.

You should know better.

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Anthony Marsh
2018-08-21 01:54:13 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by John McAdams
On 19 Aug 2018 21:56:24 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
On 18 Aug 2018 21:17:14 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
On 18 Aug 2018 10:29:10 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
WTF are you talking about? Helms admitted in testimony under oath.
Point us to a source, Tony.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Are you
calling Helms a liar? Sturgis admitted it. Are you calling Sturgis a liar?
Is that your ONLY way out of his, to call everyone at the CIA liars?
"Admitted it?" Or claimed it?
Somehow Tony thinks that nobody would claim to be CIA to inflate their
own status.
Silly. Helms said it in his testimony.
We've been over this every year for 25 years. Can't you find your notes?
Another CIA document that was declassified in 1993 makes it clear that
Fiorini/Sturgis was a paid operative of the agency. The document dated
9th February, 1975, has the subject heading: "Telephone Call from John
Dean". The memo is signed JRS and is for the attention of General Vernon
Walters, Deputy Director of the CIA at that time. The memo includes the
following: "I discussed these matters with Bill Colby, who indicated
that Sturgis has not been on the payroll for a number of years and that
whatever his allegations about the Chilean Embassy, the Agency has no
connection at all."
Where did you get this? It's not either of the links below?
Post by Anthony Marsh
https://books.google.com/books?id=nsItAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=helms+testimony+CIA+Frank+Sturgis+contract+agent&source=bl&ots=AO8vrN6C9l&sig=eujAoG7SFXfq9tJUYKnqgK2Loz8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjxiqa9gPfcAhUCZN8KHUAeBUEQ6AEwAnoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=helms%20testimony%20CIA%20Frank%20Sturgis%20contract%20agent&f=false
This is Marita Lorenz. Do you consider her reliable?
No, but the CIA did and used her.
How about a source for this?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
Post by Anthony Marsh
https://books.google.com/books?id=nsItAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=helms+sturgis++"contract+agent"&source=bl&ots=AO5AtO0Hej&sig=t9RCgc8utrf6xDfjqsObBmu61TU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj6gImcrqXXAhVG2IMKHUC3DtIQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=helms
sturgis "contract agent"&f=false
I can't get the link to work, but it points to Mark Lane's LAST WORD,
when when I search that I find Lane *claiming* that Helms said Sturgis
was a contract agent.
Yes, we've been over this 200 times. I have the book, you don't. So as a
favor I post a link.
Post by John McAdams
But I was looking for a *primary* souce.
I warned you not to eat that souce today. It's off.
The primary source is the trial transcripts.
YOU have those, of course, but won't release them.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/denial.htm
Post by Anthony Marsh
I publicly asked Mark Lane to send me all the materials so that I could
put them online for him, but he couldn't. Just as Harry Livingstone was
InterNet phobic so he asked me to monitor it for him.
So you admit you are just accepting what Mark Lane says.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
You don't expect me to take Mark Lane's word, do you?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Try your same old tricks next year after the CIA files are released.
You are still batting zero, Tony.
Can't produce a document, can you?
I did, many times.
You only produced the claims of Mark Lane.
Silly. Mark Lane questioned Helms under oath at the hearing about the
lawsuit. So you have to call Helms a liar, not me.
Post by John McAdams
You should know better.
We've been over this 200 times and you never admit anything.
Post by John McAdams
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
John McAdams
2018-08-21 01:56:36 UTC
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On 20 Aug 2018 21:54:13 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
On 19 Aug 2018 21:56:24 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
But I was looking for a *primary* souce.
I warned you not to eat that souce today. It's off.
The primary source is the trial transcripts.
YOU have those, of course, but won't release them.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/denial.htm
Post by Anthony Marsh
I publicly asked Mark Lane to send me all the materials so that I could
put them online for him, but he couldn't. Just as Harry Livingstone was
InterNet phobic so he asked me to monitor it for him.
So you admit you are just accepting what Mark Lane says.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
You don't expect me to take Mark Lane's word, do you?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Try your same old tricks next year after the CIA files are released.
You are still batting zero, Tony.
Can't produce a document, can you?
I did, many times.
You only produced the claims of Mark Lane.
Silly. Mark Lane questioned Helms under oath at the hearing about the
lawsuit. So you have to call Helms a liar, not me.
How do you know Lane did that, and what Helms said?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
You should know better.
We've been over this 200 times and you never admit anything.
You never produce a primary source. You just expect everybody to
believe the assertions of Mark Lane.

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Anthony Marsh
2018-08-23 01:47:53 UTC
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Post by John McAdams
On 20 Aug 2018 21:54:13 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
On 19 Aug 2018 21:56:24 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
But I was looking for a *primary* souce.
I warned you not to eat that souce today. It's off.
The primary source is the trial transcripts.
YOU have those, of course, but won't release them.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/denial.htm
Post by Anthony Marsh
I publicly asked Mark Lane to send me all the materials so that I could
put them online for him, but he couldn't. Just as Harry Livingstone was
InterNet phobic so he asked me to monitor it for him.
So you admit you are just accepting what Mark Lane says.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
You don't expect me to take Mark Lane's word, do you?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Try your same old tricks next year after the CIA files are released.
You are still batting zero, Tony.
Can't produce a document, can you?
I did, many times.
You only produced the claims of Mark Lane.
Silly. Mark Lane questioned Helms under oath at the hearing about the
lawsuit. So you have to call Helms a liar, not me.
How do you know Lane did that, and what Helms said?
Published record.
Post by John McAdams
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
You should know better.
We've been over this 200 times and you never admit anything.
You never produce a primary source. You just expect everybody to
believe the assertions of Mark Lane.
I always do. A few hundred times.
You play the same game every year.
Post by John McAdams
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
John McAdams
2018-08-23 01:49:02 UTC
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On 22 Aug 2018 21:47:53 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
On 20 Aug 2018 21:54:13 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Silly. Mark Lane questioned Helms under oath at the hearing about the
lawsuit. So you have to call Helms a liar, not me.
How do you know Lane did that, and what Helms said?
Published record.
Post by John McAdams
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
You should know better.
We've been over this 200 times and you never admit anything.
You never produce a primary source. You just expect everybody to
believe the assertions of Mark Lane.
I always do. A few hundred times.
You play the same game every year.
If you *have* a source other than Lane's claim, you could post it
right here, right now, in response to this post.

But we know you can't.

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Jason Burke
2018-08-23 20:23:46 UTC
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Post by John McAdams
On 22 Aug 2018 21:47:53 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
On 20 Aug 2018 21:54:13 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Silly. Mark Lane questioned Helms under oath at the hearing about the
lawsuit. So you have to call Helms a liar, not me.
How do you know Lane did that, and what Helms said?
Published record.
Post by John McAdams
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
You should know better.
We've been over this 200 times and you never admit anything.
You never produce a primary source. You just expect everybody to
believe the assertions of Mark Lane.
I always do. A few hundred times.
You play the same game every year.
If you *have* a source other than Lane's claim, you could post it
right here, right now, in response to this post.
But we know you can't.
Like that'll faze Anthony Anthony.
So far, after, what, 20+ years, he's still got zippity-do-dah.
Sadly, that never seems to stop him.
Post by John McAdams
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Anthony Marsh
2018-08-24 10:09:45 UTC
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Post by Jason Burke
Post by John McAdams
On 22 Aug 2018 21:47:53 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
On 20 Aug 2018 21:54:13 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Silly. Mark Lane questioned Helms under oath at the hearing about the
lawsuit. So you have to call Helms a liar, not me.
How do you know Lane did that, and what Helms said?
Published record.
Post by John McAdams
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
You should know better.
We've been over this 200 times and you never admit anything.
You never produce a primary source.  You just expect everybody to
believe the assertions of Mark Lane.
I always do. A few hundred times.
You play the same game every year.
If you *have* a source other than Lane's claim, you could post it
right here, right now, in response to this post.
But we know you can't.
Like that'll faze Anthony Anthony.
So far, after, what, 20+ years, he's still got zippity-do-dah.
Sadly, that never seems to stop him.
Post by John McAdams
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
I'm the only one iploading files.
Anthony Marsh
2018-08-24 02:42:45 UTC
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Post by John McAdams
On 22 Aug 2018 21:47:53 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
On 20 Aug 2018 21:54:13 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Silly. Mark Lane questioned Helms under oath at the hearing about the
lawsuit. So you have to call Helms a liar, not me.
How do you know Lane did that, and what Helms said?
Published record.
Post by John McAdams
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
You should know better.
We've been over this 200 times and you never admit anything.
You never produce a primary source. You just expect everybody to
believe the assertions of Mark Lane.
I always do. A few hundred times.
You play the same game every year.
If you *have* a source other than Lane's claim, you could post it
right here, right now, in response to this post.
But we know you can't.
Everyone knows that I did, several times over several years.
You job here is to deny facts.
Post by John McAdams
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Jason Burke
2018-08-24 18:40:26 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
On 22 Aug 2018 21:47:53 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
On 20 Aug 2018 21:54:13 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Silly. Mark Lane questioned Helms under oath at the hearing about the
lawsuit. So you have to call Helms a liar, not me.
How do you know Lane did that, and what Helms said?
Published record.
Post by John McAdams
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
You should know better.
We've been over this 200 times and you never admit anything.
You never produce a primary source.  You just expect everybody to
believe the assertions of Mark Lane.
I always do. A few hundred times.
You play the same game every year.
If you *have* a source other than Lane's claim, you could post it
right here, right now, in response to this post.
But we know you can't.
Everyone knows that I did, several times over several years.
You job here is to deny facts.
As the last, what, 153 times, you're basically admitting ya gots nuffin,
eh, Anthony Anthony?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Anthony Marsh
2018-08-25 13:07:55 UTC
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Post by Jason Burke
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
On 22 Aug 2018 21:47:53 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
On 20 Aug 2018 21:54:13 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Silly. Mark Lane questioned Helms under oath at the hearing about the
lawsuit. So you have to call Helms a liar, not me.
How do you know Lane did that, and what Helms said?
Published record.
Post by John McAdams
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
You should know better.
We've been over this 200 times and you never admit anything.
You never produce a primary source.?? You just expect everybody to
believe the assertions of Mark Lane.
I always do. A few hundred times.
You play the same game every year.
If you *have* a source other than Lane's claim, you could post it
right here, right now, in response to this post.
But we know you can't.
Everyone knows that I did, several times over several years.
You job here is to deny facts.
As the last, what, 153 times, you're basically admitting ya gots nuffin,
eh, Anthony Anthony?
Download the files.
Post by Jason Burke
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
bigdog
2018-08-26 01:02:50 UTC
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Post by Jason Burke
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
On 22 Aug 2018 21:47:53 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
On 20 Aug 2018 21:54:13 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Silly. Mark Lane questioned Helms under oath at the hearing about the
lawsuit. So you have to call Helms a liar, not me.
How do you know Lane did that, and what Helms said?
Published record.
Post by John McAdams
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
You should know better.
We've been over this 200 times and you never admit anything.
You never produce a primary source.  You just expect everybody to
believe the assertions of Mark Lane.
I always do. A few hundred times.
You play the same game every year.
If you *have* a source other than Lane's claim, you could post it
right here, right now, in response to this post.
But we know you can't.
Everyone knows that I did, several times over several years.
You job here is to deny facts.
As the last, what, 153 times, you're basically admitting ya gots nuffin,
eh, Anthony Anthony?
He's been shooting blanks for at least the last 25 years going back to our
days on the old Prodigy message board. His material wasn't any better back
then but he was somewhat less annoying. That was before he adopted his Mr.
Smarty Pants persona.
Anthony Marsh
2018-08-27 03:08:41 UTC
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Post by bigdog
Post by Jason Burke
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
On 22 Aug 2018 21:47:53 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
On 20 Aug 2018 21:54:13 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Silly. Mark Lane questioned Helms under oath at the hearing about the
lawsuit. So you have to call Helms a liar, not me.
How do you know Lane did that, and what Helms said?
Published record.
Post by John McAdams
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
You should know better.
We've been over this 200 times and you never admit anything.
You never produce a primary source.  You just expect everybody to
believe the assertions of Mark Lane.
I always do. A few hundred times.
You play the same game every year.
If you *have* a source other than Lane's claim, you could post it
right here, right now, in response to this post.
But we know you can't.
Everyone knows that I did, several times over several years.
You job here is to deny facts.
As the last, what, 153 times, you're basically admitting ya gots nuffin,
eh, Anthony Anthony?
He's been shooting blanks for at least the last 25 years going back to our
days on the old Prodigy message board. His material wasn't any better back
then but he was somewhat less annoying. That was before he adopted his Mr.
Smarty Pants persona.
I have the files. YOU don't.
All you have is a BIG MOUTH.
Maybe that should be your new alias.
Jason Burke
2018-08-28 03:33:20 UTC
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Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by Jason Burke
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
On 22 Aug 2018 21:47:53 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
On 20 Aug 2018 21:54:13 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Silly. Mark Lane questioned Helms under oath at the hearing about the
lawsuit. So you have to call Helms a liar, not me.
How do you know Lane did that, and what Helms said?
Published record.
Post by John McAdams
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
You should know better.
We've been over this 200 times and you never admit anything.
You never produce a primary source.  You just expect everybody to
believe the assertions of Mark Lane.
I always do. A few hundred times.
You play the same game every year.
If you *have* a source other than Lane's claim, you could post it
right here, right now, in response to this post.
But we know you can't.
Everyone knows that I did, several times over several years.
You job here is to deny facts.
As the last, what, 153 times, you're basically admitting ya gots nuffin,
eh, Anthony Anthony?
He's been shooting blanks for at least the last 25 years going back to our
days on the old Prodigy message board. His material wasn't any better back
then but he was somewhat less annoying. That was before he adopted his Mr.
Smarty Pants persona.
I have the files. YOU don't.
All you have is a BIG MOUTH.
Maybe that should be your new alias.
What? Are you ten?

claviger
2018-08-24 18:44:32 UTC
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Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
On 22 Aug 2018 21:47:53 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
On 20 Aug 2018 21:54:13 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Silly. Mark Lane questioned Helms under oath at the hearing about the
lawsuit. So you have to call Helms a liar, not me.
How do you know Lane did that, and what Helms said?
Published record.
Post by John McAdams
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
You should know better.
We've been over this 200 times and you never admit anything.
You never produce a primary source. You just expect everybody
to believe the assertions of Mark Lane.
I always do. A few hundred times.
You play the same game every year.
If you *have* a source other than Lane's claim, you could post it
right here, right now, in response to this post.
But we know you can't.
Everyone knows that I did, several times over several years.
You job here is to deny facts.
His job is to supply facts.

CTs are known to be allergic to facts, so McAdams must be careful
not to serve up too many at one time. They might start coughing
and wheezing then break out in hives and end up in the ER. So he
must serve them in small portions. By contrast, LNs are addicted
to facts, the more the better, and can thrive on a diet of pure facts
like meat and potatoes.

Here is a fact: even though surrounded by many witness with normal
eyesight and normal hearing it has been alleged there was a shooter
behind the fence on the GK who fired a shot at the motorcade, and
yet none of the closest witnesses saw this person with a weapon
or heard the loud blast from a rifle.

That is a Fact.

CTs struggle with this Fact and try to find witnesses further away
who thought a shot came from up there, which only dilutes their
argument. There is no way the closer witnesses could not hear
a rifle blast, as any hunter or soldier can tell you. The reason they
wear earplugs on the practice range.

Some of these witnesses were so close they should be able to
smell the burnt gunpowder, but they didn't. Several witnesses
who did smell gunpowder were down on Elm Street.

CTs claim a shot from the GK went right over 3 close witnesses
standing on the steps. Groundskeeper Emmett Hudson was one
of those witnesses and never mentioned the smell of gunpowder.
If that blast was directly behind him he should have smelled the
pungent burnt smell immediately. None of the witness on the GK
smelled gunpowder either.

So you are asking people to believe your doubtful story of a
sniper on the grassy knoll with no proof or evidence, just take
your word for it.

Conjecture is not evidence and neither is your claim there was
no entrance wound on the back of the head. All your wags lack
evidence and the so-called SOTGK is simply a delusion of your
imagination you let run wild.

The "acoustic evidence" was a bust so there is nothing left to
argue that a shot came from the front of the Limousine. So the
only hope CTs have is the Dal-Tex Bldg scenario. Groden finally
wised up to that reality and moved his CT over there. It's time
you joined him in that new snipe hunt location.
Anthony Marsh
2018-08-25 13:09:06 UTC
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Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
On 22 Aug 2018 21:47:53 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
On 20 Aug 2018 21:54:13 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Silly. Mark Lane questioned Helms under oath at the hearing about the
lawsuit. So you have to call Helms a liar, not me.
How do you know Lane did that, and what Helms said?
Published record.
Post by John McAdams
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
You should know better.
We've been over this 200 times and you never admit anything.
You never produce a primary source. You just expect everybody
to believe the assertions of Mark Lane.
I always do. A few hundred times.
You play the same game every year.
If you *have* a source other than Lane's claim, you could post it
right here, right now, in response to this post.
But we know you can't.
Everyone knows that I did, several times over several years.
You job here is to deny facts.
His job is to supply facts.
CTs are known to be allergic to facts, so McAdams must be careful
not to serve up too many at one time. They might start coughing
and wheezing then break out in hives and end up in the ER. So he
must serve them in small portions. By contrast, LNs are addicted
to facts, the more the better, and can thrive on a diet of pure facts
like meat and potatoes.
Here is a fact: even though surrounded by many witness with normal
eyesight and normal hearing it has been alleged there was a shooter
behind the fence on the GK who fired a shot at the motorcade, and
yet none of the closest witnesses saw this person with a weapon
or heard the loud blast from a rifle.
That is a Fact.
Here is a fact: even though surrounded by many witness with normal
Post by claviger
eyesight and normal hearing it YOU hav been alleged there was a
shooter in the SS car who fired a shot that hit JFK in the head, and
Post by claviger
yet none of the closest witnesses saw this person with a weapon
or heard the loud blast from a rifle.
That is a Fact.

Eat Crow.
Post by claviger
CTs struggle with this Fact and try to find witnesses further away
who thought a shot came from up there, which only dilutes their
argument. There is no way the closer witnesses could not hear
a rifle blast, as any hunter or soldier can tell you. The reason they
wear earplugs on the practice range.
Zapruder heard it and reported it immediately to the SS.

How come all the the other SS agents did not report their fellow SS
agent shooting from the SS car?
Post by claviger
Some of these witnesses were so close they should be able to
smell the burnt gunpowder, but they didn't. Several witnesses
who did smell gunpowder were down on Elm Street.
Other witnesses reported smelling gun wmoke in that area.
Post by claviger
CTs claim a shot from the GK went right over 3 close witnesses
standing on the steps. Groundskeeper Emmett Hudson was one
Your angles are a litle bit wrong. Maybe you don't have a map:

Loading Image...
Post by claviger
of those witnesses and never mentioned the smell of gunpowder.
If that blast was directly behind him he should have smelled the
pungent burnt smell immediately. None of the witness on the GK
smelled gunpowder either.
You simple dismiss all the witnesses who did smell gunpowder and call
them liars. That is yout only way out.
Post by claviger
So you are asking people to believe your doubtful story of a
sniper on the grassy knoll with no proof or evidence, just take
your word for it.
Conjecture is not evidence and neither is your claim there was
no entrance wound on the back of the head. All your wags lack
Humes couldn't point it out.
Post by claviger
evidence and the so-called SOTGK is simply a delusion of your
imagination you let run wild.
The "acoustic evidence" was a bust so there is nothing left to
argue that a shot came from the front of the Limousine. So the
only hope CTs have is the Dal-Tex Bldg scenario. Groden finally
wised up to that reality and moved his CT over there. It's time
you joined him in that new snipe hunt location.
Junk.
John McAdams
2018-08-19 01:32:31 UTC
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On 18 Aug 2018 21:17:14 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
On 18 Aug 2018 10:29:10 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Anthony Marsh
Something like that. Days later. Phillips broke Alverado.
You're still repeating the Sturgis was a CIA agent claim?
Even though it's been knocked down for years?
WTF are you talking about? Helms admitted in testimony under oath.
Point us to a source, Tony.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Are you
calling Helms a liar? Sturgis admitted it. Are you calling Sturgis a liar?
Is that your ONLY way out of his, to call everyone at the CIA liars?
"Admitted it?" Or claimed it?
Somehow Tony thinks that nobody would claim to be CIA to inflate their
own status.
Silly. Helms said it in his testimony.
We've been over this every year for 25 years. Can't you find your notes?
Another CIA document that was declassified in 1993 makes it clear that
Fiorini/Sturgis was a paid operative of the agency. The document dated
9th February, 1975, has the subject heading: "Telephone Call from John
Dean". The memo is signed JRS and is for the attention of General Vernon
Walters, Deputy Director of the CIA at that time. The memo includes the
following: "I discussed these matters with Bill Colby, who indicated
that Sturgis has not been on the payroll for a number of years and that
whatever his allegations about the Chilean Embassy, the Agency has no
connection at all."
https://books.google.com/books?id=nsItAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=helms+testimony+CIA+Frank+Sturgis+contract+agent&source=bl&ots=AO8vrN6C9l&sig=eujAoG7SFXfq9tJUYKnqgK2Loz8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjxiqa9gPfcAhUCZN8KHUAeBUEQ6AEwAnoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=helms%20testimony%20CIA%20Frank%20Sturgis%20contract%20agent&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=nsItAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=helms+sturgis++"contract+agent"&source=bl&ots=AO5AtO0Hej&sig=t9RCgc8utrf6xDfjqsObBmu61TU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj6gImcrqXXAhVG2IMKHUC3DtIQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=helms
sturgis "contract agent"&f=false
From the Rockefeller Commission:

Frank Sturgis was not an employee or agent of the CIA either in 1963
or at any other time. He so testified under oath himself, and a search
of CIA records failed to discover any evidence that he had ever been
employed by the CIA or had ever served it as an agent, informant or
other operative. Sturgis testified that he had been engaged in various
"adventures" relating to Cuba which he believed to have been organized
and financed by the CIA. He testified that he had given information,
directly and indirectly, to federal government officials, who, he
believed, were acting for the CIA. He further testified, however, that
at no time did he engage in any activity having to do with the
assassination of President Kennedy, on behalf of the CIA or otherwise.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/hunt_sturgis.htm

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Mitch Todd
2018-08-20 01:08:27 UTC
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Post by John McAdams
On 18 Aug 2018 21:17:14 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
On 18 Aug 2018 10:29:10 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Anthony Marsh
Something like that. Days later. Phillips broke Alverado.
You're still repeating the Sturgis was a CIA agent claim?
Even though it's been knocked down for years?
WTF are you talking about? Helms admitted in testimony under oath.
Point us to a source, Tony.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Are you
calling Helms a liar? Sturgis admitted it. Are you calling Sturgis a liar?
Is that your ONLY way out of his, to call everyone at the CIA liars?
"Admitted it?" Or claimed it?
Somehow Tony thinks that nobody would claim to be CIA to inflate their
own status.
Silly. Helms said it in his testimony.
We've been over this every year for 25 years. Can't you find your notes?
Another CIA document that was declassified in 1993 makes it clear that
Fiorini/Sturgis was a paid operative of the agency. The document dated
9th February, 1975, has the subject heading: "Telephone Call from John
Dean". The memo is signed JRS and is for the attention of General Vernon
Walters, Deputy Director of the CIA at that time. The memo includes the
following: "I discussed these matters with Bill Colby, who indicated
that Sturgis has not been on the payroll for a number of years and that
whatever his allegations about the Chilean Embassy, the Agency has no
connection at all."
https://books.google.com/books?id=nsItAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=helms+testimony+CIA+Frank+Sturgis+contract+agent&source=bl&ots=AO8vrN6C9l&sig=eujAoG7SFXfq9tJUYKnqgK2Loz8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjxiqa9gPfcAhUCZN8KHUAeBUEQ6AEwAnoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=helms%20testimony%20CIA%20Frank%20Sturgis%20contract%20agent&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=nsItAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=helms+sturgis++"contract+agent"&source=bl&ots=AO5AtO0Hej&sig=t9RCgc8utrf6xDfjqsObBmu61TU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj6gImcrqXXAhVG2IMKHUC3DtIQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=helms
sturgis "contract agent"&f=false
Frank Sturgis was not an employee or agent of the CIA either in 1963
or at any other time. He so testified under oath himself, and a search
of CIA records failed to discover any evidence that he had ever been
employed by the CIA or had ever served it as an agent, informant or
other operative. Sturgis testified that he had been engaged in various
"adventures" relating to Cuba which he believed to have been organized
and financed by the CIA. He testified that he had given information,
directly and indirectly, to federal government officials, who, he
believed, were acting for the CIA. He further testified, however, that
at no time did he engage in any activity having to do with the
assassination of President Kennedy, on behalf of the CIA or otherwise.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/hunt_sturgis.htm
Tony can only quote Mark Lane quoting Marita Lorenz!
Anthony Marsh
2018-08-21 01:57:05 UTC
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Post by Mitch Todd
Post by John McAdams
On 18 Aug 2018 21:17:14 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
On 18 Aug 2018 10:29:10 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Anthony Marsh
Something like that. Days later. Phillips broke Alverado.
You're still repeating the Sturgis was a CIA agent claim?
Even though it's been knocked down for years?
WTF are you talking about? Helms admitted in testimony under oath.
Point us to a source, Tony.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Are you
calling Helms a liar? Sturgis admitted it. Are you calling Sturgis a liar?
Is that your ONLY way out of his, to call everyone at the CIA liars?
"Admitted it?"?? Or claimed it?
Somehow Tony thinks that nobody would claim to be CIA to inflate their
own status.
Silly. Helms said it in his testimony.
We've been over this every year for 25 years. Can't you find your notes?
Another CIA document that was declassified in 1993 makes it clear that
Fiorini/Sturgis was a paid operative of the agency. The document dated
9th February, 1975, has the subject heading: "Telephone Call from John
Dean". The memo is signed JRS and is for the attention of General Vernon
Walters, Deputy Director of the CIA at that time. The memo includes the
following: "I discussed these matters with Bill Colby, who indicated
that Sturgis has not been on the payroll for a number of years and that
whatever his allegations about the Chilean Embassy, the Agency has no
connection at all."
https://books.google.com/books?id=nsItAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=helms+testimony+CIA+Frank+Sturgis+contract+agent&source=bl&ots=AO8vrN6C9l&sig=eujAoG7SFXfq9tJUYKnqgK2Loz8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjxiqa9gPfcAhUCZN8KHUAeBUEQ6AEwAnoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=helms%20testimony%20CIA%20Frank%20Sturgis%20contract%20agent&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=nsItAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=helms+sturgis++"contract+agent"&source=bl&ots=AO5AtO0Hej&sig=t9RCgc8utrf6xDfjqsObBmu61TU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj6gImcrqXXAhVG2IMKHUC3DtIQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=helms
sturgis "contract agent"&f=false
Frank Sturgis was not an employee or agent of the CIA either in 1963
or at any other time. He so testified under oath himself, and a search
of CIA records failed to discover any evidence that he had ever been
employed by the CIA or had ever served it as an agent, informant or
other operative. Sturgis testified that he had been engaged in various
"adventures" relating to Cuba which he believed to have been organized
and financed by the CIA. He testified that he had given information,
directly and indirectly, to federal government officials, who, he
believed, were acting for the CIA. He further testified, however, that
at no time did he engage in any activity having to do with the
assassination of President Kennedy, on behalf of the CIA or otherwise.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/hunt_sturgis.htm
Tony can only quote Mark Lane quoting Marita Lorenz!
Silly. Are you denying that Helms testified?
How far will you go?
r***@gmail.com
2018-08-22 02:49:18 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Mitch Todd
Post by John McAdams
On 18 Aug 2018 21:17:14 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by John McAdams
On 18 Aug 2018 10:29:10 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Anthony Marsh
Something like that. Days later. Phillips broke Alverado.
You're still repeating the Sturgis was a CIA agent claim?
Even though it's been knocked down for years?
WTF are you talking about? Helms admitted in testimony under oath.
Point us to a source, Tony.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Are you
calling Helms a liar? Sturgis admitted it. Are you calling Sturgis a liar?
Is that your ONLY way out of his, to call everyone at the CIA liars?
"Admitted it?"?? Or claimed it?
Somehow Tony thinks that nobody would claim to be CIA to inflate their
own status.
Silly. Helms said it in his testimony.
We've been over this every year for 25 years. Can't you find your notes?
Another CIA document that was declassified in 1993 makes it clear that
Fiorini/Sturgis was a paid operative of the agency. The document dated
9th February, 1975, has the subject heading: "Telephone Call from John
Dean". The memo is signed JRS and is for the attention of General Vernon
Walters, Deputy Director of the CIA at that time. The memo includes the
following: "I discussed these matters with Bill Colby, who indicated
that Sturgis has not been on the payroll for a number of years and that
whatever his allegations about the Chilean Embassy, the Agency has no
connection at all."
https://books.google.com/books?id=nsItAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=helms+testimony+CIA+Frank+Sturgis+contract+agent&source=bl&ots=AO8vrN6C9l&sig=eujAoG7SFXfq9tJUYKnqgK2Loz8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjxiqa9gPfcAhUCZN8KHUAeBUEQ6AEwAnoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=helms%20testimony%20CIA%20Frank%20Sturgis%20contract%20agent&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=nsItAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=helms+sturgis++"contract+agent"&source=bl&ots=AO5AtO0Hej&sig=t9RCgc8utrf6xDfjqsObBmu61TU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj6gImcrqXXAhVG2IMKHUC3DtIQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=helms
sturgis "contract agent"&f=false
Frank Sturgis was not an employee or agent of the CIA either in 1963
or at any other time. He so testified under oath himself, and a search
of CIA records failed to discover any evidence that he had ever been
employed by the CIA or had ever served it as an agent, informant or
other operative. Sturgis testified that he had been engaged in various
"adventures" relating to Cuba which he believed to have been organized
and financed by the CIA. He testified that he had given information,
directly and indirectly, to federal government officials, who, he
believed, were acting for the CIA. He further testified, however, that
at no time did he engage in any activity having to do with the
assassination of President Kennedy, on behalf of the CIA or otherwise.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/hunt_sturgis.htm
Tony can only quote Mark Lane quoting Marita Lorenz!
Silly. Are you denying that Helms testified?
Show us where Helms testified to it.
Post by Anthony Marsh
How far will you go?
That question is best turned to you at this
point.
Steve M. Galbraith
2018-08-19 01:37:25 UTC
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Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by claviger
Cartographic Concepts
A Cruel and Shocking Act,
The Secret History of the Kennedy Assassination
By Philip Shenon
http://www.mapmanusa.com/cci-print-bw-4.htmlThe single bullet
The single-bullet theory
http://www.mapmanusa.com/images/book-maps/philip-Shenon-Cruel-and-shocking-single-bullet-theory.jpg
It's a disappointing book if you're a assassination buff/student; if
you're a general audience reader it might be interesting. There's nothing
really new in it although in fairness to Shenon what new things can we
learn after a half century of digging?
He throws out a lot of hints about Oswald in Mexico City - he mentions
Mann and Charles Thomas of the State Department, two individuals who
pushed hard on allegations about Oswald being seen with Cuban agents (the
"Twist" party et cetera) being seen together - but never really develops
them much.
It's part of a CIA disinformation program to blame the JFK assassination
on the Cubans. It started immediately after the shooting with the hoaxes.
http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/cubahoax.htm
The claim about the so-called "Twist" party was, from what I've read, not
made by anyone working for the CIA. The sources apparently were Elena
Garro Paz (wife of the famous poet Octavio Paz) and her daughter. Neither
worked for the CIA or made the claim under CIA direction. In fact, it was
the CIA who looked into the claims and concluded there was nothing to
them.
Nothing in your link shows that the CIA was behind any of these
allegations that Oswald met with or was seen with Cuban agents or
personnel.
Frank Sturgis
What is the evidence that Sturgis was promoting the "Castro killed JFK"
claims on behalf of or on orders from the CIA?
I didn't say on the orders. Frank Sturgis was a CIA agent.
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Your links show that the CIA in MC was knocking down these stories about
Havana's involvement. Win Scott reportedly dismissed Elena Garo's story
about the "twist" party and said she was a crackpot.
Something like that. Days later. Phillips broke Alverado.
You're still repeating the Sturgis was a CIA agent claim?
Even though it's been knocked down for years?
WTF are you talking about? Helms admitted in testimony under oath. Are you
calling Helms a liar? Sturgis admitted it. Are you calling Sturgis a liar?
Is that your ONLY way out of his, to call everyone at the CIA liars?
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
I shouldn't be surprised and I'm not.
And you still haven't presented a lick of evidence that people in the CIA
were disseminating false "Castro killed JFK" stories.
My article did and I didn't say "IN the CIA"
My father was not IN the CIA. He was IN the NSA, but the CIA and the NSA
worked together on joint projects.
Quote Helms saying Sturgis was a CIA agent.

Not a contract agent, not an asset but a "CIA agent."

Sturgis admitted to being in covert/guerilla operations that he believed
were run by or funded by the CIA. That's not being an agent.

Again: give us the quote from Helms saying Sturgis was a CIA agent.

And give us the quote/admission from Sturgis where he admitted to being a
CIA agent. Not an operative, not an asset, not a contract agent or worker:
but an agent.

Give us the two quotes, please.
claviger
2018-08-11 03:58:29 UTC
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METRO NEWS

A Cruel And Shocking Act:
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So who did kill president John F Kennedy?
Ben Felsenburg
https://metro.co.uk/2013/10/30/a-cruel-and-shocking-act-so-who-did-kill-president-john-f-kennedy-4165696/
claviger
2018-08-11 03:58:39 UTC
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METRO NEWS... BUT NOT AS YOU KNOW IT


A Cruel And Shocking Act: So who did kill president John F Kennedy?
Ben Felsenburg Wednesday 30 Oct 2013
https://metro.co.uk/2013/10/30/a-cruel-and-shocking-act-so-who-did-kill-president-john-f-kennedy-4165696/
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