Discussion:
Ignoring Parkland Hospital staff statements and focusing on the
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Amy Joyce
2017-06-05 23:20:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Why?

"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.

There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.

The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.

At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.

The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.

After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."

snips


"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.

Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?

What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”

Why would we expect that sort of cooperation? Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.

That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."

snips

"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.

Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Mitch Todd
2017-06-06 18:35:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
It would help everyone involved --you most of all-- to cite your
sources. Otherwise, your quotes are just foundationless textual
orphans.
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation? Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Anthony Marsh
2017-06-07 00:39:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mitch Todd
It would help everyone involved --you most of all-- to cite your
sources. Otherwise, your quotes are just foundationless textual
orphans.
So, I guess GOOGLE is banned in your country so you can't just copy a
line of text and GOOGLE it? Or don't you know how to COPY? ALt-C.

So, I guess GOOGLE is banned in your country so you can't just copy a
line of text and GOOGLE it? Or don't you know how to COPY? ALt-C.

If you can't get Google maybe you can get Bing. Almost the same thing.
Just don't be a Yahoo and use Yahoo.
Post by Mitch Todd
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn???t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy???s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president???s life.
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don???t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, ???We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we???ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We???ll take the body once you have
finished.???
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation? Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
That???s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered
questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy???s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Amy Joyce
2017-06-08 19:25:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mitch Todd
It would help everyone involved --you most of all-- to cite your
sources. Otherwise, your quotes are just foundationless textual
orphans.
Mitch Todd, you are right. My apologies.

Here is the link: https://www.fff.org/2013/10/14/the-first-step-in-the-jfk-cover-up/

THE FIRST STEP IN THE JFK COVER-UP
by Jacob G. Hornberger
October 14, 2013
Post by Mitch Todd
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation? Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Mitch Todd
2017-06-11 23:34:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by Mitch Todd
It would help everyone involved --you most of all-- to cite your
sources. Otherwise, your quotes are just foundationless textual
orphans.
Mitch Todd, you are right. My apologies.
Here is the link: https://www.fff.org/2013/10/14/the-first-step-in-the-jfk-cover-up/
THE FIRST STEP IN THE JFK COVER-UP
by Jacob G. Hornberger
October 14, 2013
Thanks, Amy. I appreciate that. Now, in turn, the
question is, where did Hornberger get his information?
Manchester's _The Death of a President_ is generally
regarded as having the closest thing to a definitive
account of the Earl Rose incident. It's not that TDoaP
is without bias. A number of commentators have noted
that there is an obvious anti-Texas slant to it, and
Rose gets portrayed, in Manchester's own words as "a
stage heavy" for trying to do is job. However, Manchester
was able to interview many of the principals involved
within a few years of the events portrayed, and his
account is far less dramatic than Hornberger's. It's
especially worthwhile to note that the end run around
Rose's authority was driven at least as much by Kennedy
aides/loyalists O'Donnell and Powers as it was by
SA Kellerman, and was facilitated by Kemp Clark, the
senior member of the Parkland team that tried to resuscitate
JFK. In TDoaP, there are no platoons of SS agents pulling
guns and barging through, though there was definitely
standoff between the (former) Presidential party and
Dr Rose.
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by Mitch Todd
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation? Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
mainframetech
2017-06-12 23:55:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mitch Todd
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by Mitch Todd
It would help everyone involved --you most of all-- to cite your
sources. Otherwise, your quotes are just foundationless textual
orphans.
Mitch Todd, you are right. My apologies.
Here is the link: https://www.fff.org/2013/10/14/the-first-step-in-the-jfk-cover-up/
THE FIRST STEP IN THE JFK COVER-UP
by Jacob G. Hornberger
October 14, 2013
Thanks, Amy. I appreciate that. Now, in turn, the
question is, where did Hornberger get his information?
Manchester's _The Death of a President_ is generally
regarded as having the closest thing to a definitive
account of the Earl Rose incident. It's not that TDoaP
is without bias. A number of commentators have noted
that there is an obvious anti-Texas slant to it, and
Rose gets portrayed, in Manchester's own words as "a
stage heavy" for trying to do is job. However, Manchester
was able to interview many of the principals involved
within a few years of the events portrayed, and his
account is far less dramatic than Hornberger's. It's
especially worthwhile to note that the end run around
Rose's authority was driven at least as much by Kennedy
aides/loyalists O'Donnell and Powers as it was by
SA Kellerman, and was facilitated by Kemp Clark, the
senior member of the Parkland team that tried to resuscitate
JFK. In TDoaP, there are no platoons of SS agents pulling
guns and barging through, though there was definitely
standoff between the (former) Presidential party and
Dr Rose.
Mitch, you demand of Amy that she should put out her backup, but
supply none of your own for your story about O'Donnell and others.

Chris
Mitch Todd
2017-06-15 19:00:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by mainframetech
Post by Mitch Todd
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by Mitch Todd
It would help everyone involved --you most of all-- to cite your
sources. Otherwise, your quotes are just foundationless textual
orphans.
Mitch Todd, you are right. My apologies.
Here is the link: https://www.fff.org/2013/10/14/the-first-step-in-the-jfk-cover-up/
THE FIRST STEP IN THE JFK COVER-UP
by Jacob G. Hornberger
October 14, 2013
Thanks, Amy. I appreciate that. Now, in turn, the
question is, where did Hornberger get his information?
Manchester's _The Death of a President_ is generally
regarded as having the closest thing to a definitive
account of the Earl Rose incident. It's not that TDoaP
is without bias. A number of commentators have noted
that there is an obvious anti-Texas slant to it, and
Rose gets portrayed, in Manchester's own words as "a
stage heavy" for trying to do is job. However, Manchester
was able to interview many of the principals involved
within a few years of the events portrayed, and his
account is far less dramatic than Hornberger's. It's
especially worthwhile to note that the end run around
Rose's authority was driven at least as much by Kennedy
aides/loyalists O'Donnell and Powers as it was by
SA Kellerman, and was facilitated by Kemp Clark, the
senior member of the Parkland team that tried to resuscitate
JFK. In TDoaP, there are no platoons of SS agents pulling
guns and barging through, though there was definitely
standoff between the (former) Presidential party and
Dr Rose.
Mitch, you demand of Amy that she should put out her backup, but
supply none of your own for your story about O'Donnell and others.
*I* *DID*. William Manchester's _The_Death_of_a_President_.

You missed that somehow, even with the underlining and
capital letters and such. Next time, I'll have to go
ALL ROSSLEY ON YOU.
Anthony Marsh
2017-06-16 14:09:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mitch Todd
Post by mainframetech
Post by Mitch Todd
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by Mitch Todd
It would help everyone involved --you most of all-- to cite your
sources. Otherwise, your quotes are just foundationless textual
orphans.
Mitch Todd, you are right. My apologies.
https://www.fff.org/2013/10/14/the-first-step-in-the-jfk-cover-up/
THE FIRST STEP IN THE JFK COVER-UP
by Jacob G. Hornberger
October 14, 2013
Thanks, Amy. I appreciate that. Now, in turn, the
question is, where did Hornberger get his information?
Manchester's _The Death of a President_ is generally
regarded as having the closest thing to a definitive
account of the Earl Rose incident. It's not that TDoaP
is without bias. A number of commentators have noted
that there is an obvious anti-Texas slant to it, and
Rose gets portrayed, in Manchester's own words as "a
stage heavy" for trying to do is job. However, Manchester
was able to interview many of the principals involved
within a few years of the events portrayed, and his
account is far less dramatic than Hornberger's. It's
especially worthwhile to note that the end run around
Rose's authority was driven at least as much by Kennedy
aides/loyalists O'Donnell and Powers as it was by
SA Kellerman, and was facilitated by Kemp Clark, the
senior member of the Parkland team that tried to resuscitate
JFK. In TDoaP, there are no platoons of SS agents pulling
guns and barging through, though there was definitely
standoff between the (former) Presidential party and
Dr Rose.
Mitch, you demand of Amy that she should put out her backup, but
supply none of your own for your story about O'Donnell and others.
*I* *DID*. William Manchester's _The_Death_of_a_President_.
You missed that somehow, even with the underlining and
capital letters and such. Next time, I'll have to go
ALL ROSSLEY ON YOU.
God do I miss him. He was FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Robert Harris
2017-06-06 19:12:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Be aware, that there are a couple of loonies in
the forum who accuse every new member (nutter or
CT, it doesn't matter) of being my sock puppet -
that is, an alias I create to agree with me.

You may be accused of the same.

Anyway, I don't think the Secret Service or the
military was part of a conspiracy to assassinate
Kennedy.

In the days of the cold war, the fear was that
this was an act of war by the Russians/Cubans. The
military went on high alert and was genuinely
concerned that this was the preface to an attack.

This is why they wanted to control pretty much
everything, including the autopsy.

There was definitely a coverup however, although
for the most part, the people who carried it out,
believed they were doing it to avoid a nuclear war.

This is why Katzenbach stated in his memo, that
the public "must be convinced" that Oswald acted
alone.




Robert Harris
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation? Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
mainframetech
2017-06-07 16:42:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Robert Harris
Be aware, that there are a couple of loonies in
the forum who accuse every new member (nutter or
CT, it doesn't matter) of being my sock puppet -
that is, an alias I create to agree with me.
You may be accused of the same.
Anyway, I don't think the Secret Service or the
military was part of a conspiracy to assassinate
Kennedy.
Actually, neither organization had any involvement in the murder of
JFK, but individuals from those organizations were involved.

Chris
Amy Joyce
2017-06-08 19:27:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Robert Harris
Be aware, that there are a couple of loonies in
the forum who accuse every new member (nutter or
CT, it doesn't matter) of being my sock puppet -
that is, an alias I create to agree with me.
You may be accused of the same.
Anyway, I don't think the Secret Service or the
military was part of a conspiracy to assassinate
Kennedy.
In the days of the cold war, the fear was that
this was an act of war by the Russians/Cubans. The
military went on high alert and was genuinely
concerned that this was the preface to an attack.
This is why they wanted to control pretty much
everything, including the autopsy.
There was definitely a coverup however, although
for the most part, the people who carried it out,
believed they were doing it to avoid a nuclear war.
This is why Katzenbach stated in his memo, that
the public "must be convinced" that Oswald acted
alone.
Robert Harris
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation? Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Robert Harris,

Thanks for the warning. It's odd and funny to me that someone would
accuse you of having a socket pocket, pretending to be a LN (especially if
it was coming from a LN, not a CT).
Jason Burke
2017-06-09 13:48:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by Robert Harris
Be aware, that there are a couple of loonies in
the forum who accuse every new member (nutter or
CT, it doesn't matter) of being my sock puppet -
that is, an alias I create to agree with me.
You may be accused of the same.
Anyway, I don't think the Secret Service or the
military was part of a conspiracy to assassinate
Kennedy.
In the days of the cold war, the fear was that
this was an act of war by the Russians/Cubans. The
military went on high alert and was genuinely
concerned that this was the preface to an attack.
This is why they wanted to control pretty much
everything, including the autopsy.
There was definitely a coverup however, although
for the most part, the people who carried it out,
believed they were doing it to avoid a nuclear war.
This is why Katzenbach stated in his memo, that
the public "must be convinced" that Oswald acted
alone.
Robert Harris
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation? Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Robert Harris,
Thanks for the warning. It's odd and funny to me that someone would
accuse you of having a socket pocket, pretending to be a LN (especially if
it was coming from a LN, not a CT).
Dang, Amy is rapidly approaching the cluelessness of the rest of the CT
crowd.
Anthony Marsh
2017-06-10 02:15:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jason Burke
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by Robert Harris
Be aware, that there are a couple of loonies in
the forum who accuse every new member (nutter or
CT, it doesn't matter) of being my sock puppet -
that is, an alias I create to agree with me.
You may be accused of the same.
Anyway, I don't think the Secret Service or the
military was part of a conspiracy to assassinate
Kennedy.
In the days of the cold war, the fear was that
this was an act of war by the Russians/Cubans. The
military went on high alert and was genuinely
concerned that this was the preface to an attack.
This is why they wanted to control pretty much
everything, including the autopsy.
There was definitely a coverup however, although
for the most part, the people who carried it out,
believed they were doing it to avoid a nuclear war.
This is why Katzenbach stated in his memo, that
the public "must be convinced" that Oswald acted
alone.
Robert Harris
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at
Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were
threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation? Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Robert Harris,
Thanks for the warning. It's odd and funny to me that someone would
accuse you of having a socket pocket, pretending to be a LN
(especially if
it was coming from a LN, not a CT).
Dang, Amy is rapidly approaching the cluelessness of the rest of the CT
crowd.
I guess that's supposed to be some form of ad hominem character
assassination. That would be like me calling you a Trump supporter.
But I wouldn't be mean enough to do that. But you are mean enough to
attack a woman for exercising her right of free thought and speech.
That's the only way your side can win.
bigdog
2017-06-10 02:28:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jason Burke
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by Robert Harris
Be aware, that there are a couple of loonies in
the forum who accuse every new member (nutter or
CT, it doesn't matter) of being my sock puppet -
that is, an alias I create to agree with me.
You may be accused of the same.
Anyway, I don't think the Secret Service or the
military was part of a conspiracy to assassinate
Kennedy.
In the days of the cold war, the fear was that
this was an act of war by the Russians/Cubans. The
military went on high alert and was genuinely
concerned that this was the preface to an attack.
This is why they wanted to control pretty much
everything, including the autopsy.
There was definitely a coverup however, although
for the most part, the people who carried it out,
believed they were doing it to avoid a nuclear war.
This is why Katzenbach stated in his memo, that
the public "must be convinced" that Oswald acted
alone.
Robert Harris
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation? Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Robert Harris,
Thanks for the warning. It's odd and funny to me that someone would
accuse you of having a socket pocket, pretending to be a LN (especially if
it was coming from a LN, not a CT).
Dang, Amy is rapidly approaching the cluelessness of the rest of the CT
crowd.
I'm always impressed by fast learners.
Amy Joyce
2017-06-10 12:44:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jason Burke
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by Robert Harris
Be aware, that there are a couple of loonies in
the forum who accuse every new member (nutter or
CT, it doesn't matter) of being my sock puppet -
that is, an alias I create to agree with me.
You may be accused of the same.
Anyway, I don't think the Secret Service or the
military was part of a conspiracy to assassinate
Kennedy.
In the days of the cold war, the fear was that
this was an act of war by the Russians/Cubans. The
military went on high alert and was genuinely
concerned that this was the preface to an attack.
This is why they wanted to control pretty much
everything, including the autopsy.
There was definitely a coverup however, although
for the most part, the people who carried it out,
believed they were doing it to avoid a nuclear war.
This is why Katzenbach stated in his memo, that
the public "must be convinced" that Oswald acted
alone.
Robert Harris
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation? Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Robert Harris,
Thanks for the warning. It's odd and funny to me that someone would
accuse you of having a socket pocket, pretending to be a LN (especially if
it was coming from a LN, not a CT).
Dang, Amy is rapidly approaching the cluelessness of the rest of the CT
crowd.
You are gaslighting.
Jason Burke
2017-06-11 04:18:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by Jason Burke
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by Robert Harris
Be aware, that there are a couple of loonies in
the forum who accuse every new member (nutter or
CT, it doesn't matter) of being my sock puppet -
that is, an alias I create to agree with me.
You may be accused of the same.
Anyway, I don't think the Secret Service or the
military was part of a conspiracy to assassinate
Kennedy.
In the days of the cold war, the fear was that
this was an act of war by the Russians/Cubans. The
military went on high alert and was genuinely
concerned that this was the preface to an attack.
This is why they wanted to control pretty much
everything, including the autopsy.
There was definitely a coverup however, although
for the most part, the people who carried it out,
believed they were doing it to avoid a nuclear war.
This is why Katzenbach stated in his memo, that
the public "must be convinced" that Oswald acted
alone.
Robert Harris
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation? Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Robert Harris,
Thanks for the warning. It's odd and funny to me that someone would
accuse you of having a socket pocket, pretending to be a LN (especially if
it was coming from a LN, not a CT).
Dang, Amy is rapidly approaching the cluelessness of the rest of the CT
crowd.
You are gaslighting.
I'm stating a fact.
Something CTs know pretty much nothing about.
mainframetech
2017-06-07 00:29:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation? Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Of course, the stealing of the body and the limousine were necessary. If
the body were examined at Dallas by Dr. Rose, there would be clear indications
that JFK was shot by more than one shooter and from more than one
location, pointing to conspiracy. That could not be allowed to happen. The
'lone nut' scenario must be preserved at all costs, and at a military hospital
pathologists could be ordered to give a fake autopsy Report if given a
good enough reason to follow those orders. The possibility of starting WW3
is one excuse that was used during the JFK crisis, particularly by LBJ.

Later in the case, it was shown that the prosectors (pathologists) did
indeed make out a false Autopsy Report.

Chris
Anthony Marsh
2017-06-07 21:33:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by mainframetech
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn???t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy???s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president???s life.
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don???t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, ???We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we???ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We???ll take the body once you have
finished.???
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation? Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
That???s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy???s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Of course, the stealing of the body and the limousine were necessary. If
the body were examined at Dallas by Dr. Rose, there would be clear indications
that JFK was shot by more than one shooter and from more than one
location, pointing to conspiracy. That could not be allowed to happen. The
Well, sorta. Bethesda saw that, but they could be ordered by the military
to cover it up, and rewrite the autopsy to take out any conspiracy
allegations.
Post by mainframetech
'lone nut' scenario must be preserved at all costs, and at a military hospital
pathologists could be ordered to give a fake autopsy Report if given a
good enough reason to follow those orders. The possibility of starting WW3
is one excuse that was used during the JFK crisis, particularly by LBJ.
Later in the case, it was shown that the prosectors (pathologists) did
indeed make out a false Autopsy Report.
Chris
Amy Joyce
2017-06-08 19:29:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by mainframetech
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation? Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Of course, the stealing of the body and the limousine were necessary. If
the body were examined at Dallas by Dr. Rose, there would be clear indications
that JFK was shot by more than one shooter and from more than one
location, pointing to conspiracy. That could not be allowed to happen. The
'lone nut' scenario must be preserved at all costs, and at a military hospital
pathologists could be ordered to give a fake autopsy Report if given a
good enough reason to follow those orders. The possibility of starting WW3
is one excuse that was used during the JFK crisis, particularly by LBJ.
Later in the case, it was shown that the prosectors (pathologists) did
indeed make out a false Autopsy Report.
Chris
Chris, again I don't see how that can be ignored or casually waved off.
IMO, no other person(s) would have ever gotten away with removing the body
from a hospital before the autopsy (breaking the law), and taking it out
of state to perform an autopsy elsewhere (breaking the law). Knowing that
this occurred and discovering that there were large discrepancies between
witnesses as to the condition of the body (wounds) tells me that the
reason the body was taken elsewhere was to manipulate either the body or
falsify "official" reports pertaining to it. There is no way I can trust
that.

From what I understand the reason the body was taken was because Jackie
wouldn't leave without it, which sounds like a pathetic excuse. They could
have easily decided to stay in Dallas for a few hours until the autopsy
was finished and then taken the body afterward... that is if the main
concern was actually to not leaving without Jackie. They could have also
requested that the other ME/doctor(s) be brought to the body, instead of
the other way around. I doubt that there would have been complaint in
having specific doctors brought TO DALLAS to either perform, assist, or
observe. Another scenario was to leave Jackie with the body (and whomever
else to keep her safe, etc), while they left to attend to swear in the new
president - a task that didn't require Jackie or the body. There wasn't no
valid reason to take the body other than because someone else wanted the
body out of Dallas (quickly - before the autopsy could was performed
there). I'd forgotten about the limo. So there wasn't a separate
investigation as to why the body and limo were taken away from the scene
and investigators? It's shameful that citizens are expected to believe
that it's quite OK to remove pertinent evidence from the city, county, and
state of the crime - AWAY from primary investigators. Anyone else in the
country that did such things would have the four remaining fingers of the
investigating pointing at them.
Anthony Marsh
2017-06-09 13:15:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by mainframetech
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation? Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Of course, the stealing of the body and the limousine were necessary. If
the body were examined at Dallas by Dr. Rose, there would be clear indications
that JFK was shot by more than one shooter and from more than one
location, pointing to conspiracy. That could not be allowed to happen. The
'lone nut' scenario must be preserved at all costs, and at a military hospital
pathologists could be ordered to give a fake autopsy Report if given a
good enough reason to follow those orders. The possibility of starting WW3
is one excuse that was used during the JFK crisis, particularly by LBJ.
Later in the case, it was shown that the prosectors (pathologists) did
indeed make out a false Autopsy Report.
Chris
Chris, again I don't see how that can be ignored or casually waved off.
IMO, no other person(s) would have ever gotten away with removing the body
from a hospital before the autopsy (breaking the law), and taking it out
of state to perform an autopsy elsewhere (breaking the law). Knowing that
this occurred and discovering that there were large discrepancies between
witnesses as to the condition of the body (wounds) tells me that the
reason the body was taken elsewhere was to manipulate either the body or
falsify "official" reports pertaining to it. There is no way I can trust
that.
From what I understand the reason the body was taken was because Jackie
wouldn't leave without it, which sounds like a pathetic excuse. They could
have easily decided to stay in Dallas for a few hours until the autopsy
was finished and then taken the body afterward... that is if the main
Sure, if they all wanted to die in an atomic bomb explosion.
LBJ needed to get airborn as quickly as possible he wouldn't leave
Jackie behind.
Post by Amy Joyce
concern was actually to not leaving without Jackie. They could have also
requested that the other ME/doctor(s) be brought to the body, instead of
But it still might not be legal. And they couldn't control a civilian
doctor.
Post by Amy Joyce
the other way around. I doubt that there would have been complaint in
having specific doctors brought TO DALLAS to either perform, assist, or
observe. Another scenario was to leave Jackie with the body (and whomever
else to keep her safe, etc), while they left to attend to swear in the new
Hard to do an autopsy when you've just been vaporized by a nuclear bomb.
Post by Amy Joyce
president - a task that didn't require Jackie or the body. There wasn't no
valid reason to take the body other than because someone else wanted the
body out of Dallas (quickly - before the autopsy could was performed
there). I'd forgotten about the limo. So there wasn't a separate
investigation as to why the body and limo were taken away from the scene
and investigators? It's shameful that citizens are expected to believe
that it's quite OK to remove pertinent evidence from the city, county, and
state of the crime - AWAY from primary investigators. Anyone else in the
country that did such things would have the four remaining fingers of the
investigating pointing at them.
Amy Joyce
2017-06-10 12:39:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by mainframetech
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation? Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Of course, the stealing of the body and the limousine were necessary. If
the body were examined at Dallas by Dr. Rose, there would be clear indications
that JFK was shot by more than one shooter and from more than one
location, pointing to conspiracy. That could not be allowed to happen. The
'lone nut' scenario must be preserved at all costs, and at a military hospital
pathologists could be ordered to give a fake autopsy Report if given a
good enough reason to follow those orders. The possibility of starting WW3
is one excuse that was used during the JFK crisis, particularly by LBJ.
Later in the case, it was shown that the prosectors (pathologists) did
indeed make out a false Autopsy Report.
Chris
Chris, again I don't see how that can be ignored or casually waved off.
IMO, no other person(s) would have ever gotten away with removing the body
from a hospital before the autopsy (breaking the law), and taking it out
of state to perform an autopsy elsewhere (breaking the law). Knowing that
this occurred and discovering that there were large discrepancies between
witnesses as to the condition of the body (wounds) tells me that the
reason the body was taken elsewhere was to manipulate either the body or
falsify "official" reports pertaining to it. There is no way I can trust
that.
From what I understand the reason the body was taken was because Jackie
wouldn't leave without it, which sounds like a pathetic excuse. They could
have easily decided to stay in Dallas for a few hours until the autopsy
was finished and then taken the body afterward... that is if the main
Sure, if they all wanted to die in an atomic bomb explosion.
LBJ needed to get airborn as quickly as possible he wouldn't leave
Jackie behind.
Post by Amy Joyce
concern was actually to not leaving without Jackie. They could have also
requested that the other ME/doctor(s) be brought to the body, instead of
But it still might not be legal. And they couldn't control a civilian
doctor.
Post by Amy Joyce
the other way around. I doubt that there would have been complaint in
having specific doctors brought TO DALLAS to either perform, assist, or
observe. Another scenario was to leave Jackie with the body (and whomever
else to keep her safe, etc), while they left to attend to swear in the new
Hard to do an autopsy when you've just been vaporized by a nuclear bomb.
The last worry would be an autopsy if they feared a nuclear bomb.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Amy Joyce
president - a task that didn't require Jackie or the body. There wasn't no
valid reason to take the body other than because someone else wanted the
body out of Dallas (quickly - before the autopsy could was performed
there). I'd forgotten about the limo. So there wasn't a separate
investigation as to why the body and limo were taken away from the scene
and investigators? It's shameful that citizens are expected to believe
that it's quite OK to remove pertinent evidence from the city, county, and
state of the crime - AWAY from primary investigators. Anyone else in the
country that did such things would have the four remaining fingers of the
investigating pointing at them.
mainframetech
2017-06-11 23:24:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by mainframetech
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation? Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Of course, the stealing of the body and the limousine were necessary. If
the body were examined at Dallas by Dr. Rose, there would be clear indications
that JFK was shot by more than one shooter and from more than one
location, pointing to conspiracy. That could not be allowed to happen. The
'lone nut' scenario must be preserved at all costs, and at a military hospital
pathologists could be ordered to give a fake autopsy Report if given a
good enough reason to follow those orders. The possibility of starting WW3
is one excuse that was used during the JFK crisis, particularly by LBJ.
Later in the case, it was shown that the prosectors (pathologists) did
indeed make out a false Autopsy Report.
Chris
Chris, again I don't see how that can be ignored or casually waved off.
IMO, no other person(s) would have ever gotten away with removing the body
from a hospital before the autopsy (breaking the law), and taking it out
of state to perform an autopsy elsewhere (breaking the law). Knowing that
this occurred and discovering that there were large discrepancies between
witnesses as to the condition of the body (wounds) tells me that the
reason the body was taken elsewhere was to manipulate either the body or
falsify "official" reports pertaining to it. There is no way I can trust
that.
From what I understand the reason the body was taken was because Jackie
wouldn't leave without it, which sounds like a pathetic excuse. They could
have easily decided to stay in Dallas for a few hours until the autopsy
was finished and then taken the body afterward... that is if the main
Sure, if they all wanted to die in an atomic bomb explosion.
LBJ needed to get airborn as quickly as possible he wouldn't leave
Jackie behind.
The atomic bomb story is baloney. No atomic bomb would have ever
targeted Dallas, TX. More likely Washington (command and control) or the
various missile sites that might respond to an attack. But it was a
figment used by LBJ to manipulate folks into doing what he wanted after
the murder.
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Amy Joyce
concern was actually to not leaving without Jackie. They could have also
requested that the other ME/doctor(s) be brought to the body, instead of
But it still might not be legal. And they couldn't control a civilian
doctor.
Post by Amy Joyce
the other way around. I doubt that there would have been complaint in
having specific doctors brought TO DALLAS to either perform, assist, or
observe. Another scenario was to leave Jackie with the body (and whomever
else to keep her safe, etc), while they left to attend to swear in the new
Hard to do an autopsy when you've just been vaporized by a nuclear bomb.
The last worry would be an autopsy if they feared a nuclear bomb.
True. No one was going to target Dallas, TX.
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Amy Joyce
president - a task that didn't require Jackie or the body. There wasn't no
valid reason to take the body other than because someone else wanted the
body out of Dallas (quickly - before the autopsy could was performed
there). I'd forgotten about the limo. So there wasn't a separate
investigation as to why the body and limo were taken away from the scene
and investigators? It's shameful that citizens are expected to believe
that it's quite OK to remove pertinent evidence from the city, county, and
state of the crime - AWAY from primary investigators. Anyone else in the
country that did such things would have the four remaining fingers of the
investigating pointing at them.
Anthony Marsh
2017-06-12 16:42:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by mainframetech
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by mainframetech
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation? Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Of course, the stealing of the body and the limousine were necessary. If
the body were examined at Dallas by Dr. Rose, there would be clear indications
that JFK was shot by more than one shooter and from more than one
location, pointing to conspiracy. That could not be allowed to happen. The
'lone nut' scenario must be preserved at all costs, and at a military hospital
pathologists could be ordered to give a fake autopsy Report if given a
good enough reason to follow those orders. The possibility of starting WW3
is one excuse that was used during the JFK crisis, particularly by LBJ.
Later in the case, it was shown that the prosectors (pathologists) did
indeed make out a false Autopsy Report.
Chris
Chris, again I don't see how that can be ignored or casually waved off.
IMO, no other person(s) would have ever gotten away with removing the body
from a hospital before the autopsy (breaking the law), and taking it out
of state to perform an autopsy elsewhere (breaking the law). Knowing that
this occurred and discovering that there were large discrepancies between
witnesses as to the condition of the body (wounds) tells me that the
reason the body was taken elsewhere was to manipulate either the body or
falsify "official" reports pertaining to it. There is no way I can trust
that.
From what I understand the reason the body was taken was because Jackie
wouldn't leave without it, which sounds like a pathetic excuse. They could
have easily decided to stay in Dallas for a few hours until the autopsy
was finished and then taken the body afterward... that is if the main
Sure, if they all wanted to die in an atomic bomb explosion.
LBJ needed to get airborn as quickly as possible he wouldn't leave
Jackie behind.
The atomic bomb story is baloney. No atomic bomb would have ever
targeted Dallas, TX. More likely Washington (command and control) or the
various missile sites that might respond to an attack. But it was a
figment used by LBJ to manipulate folks into doing what he wanted after
the murder.
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Amy Joyce
concern was actually to not leaving without Jackie. They could have also
requested that the other ME/doctor(s) be brought to the body, instead of
But it still might not be legal. And they couldn't control a civilian
doctor.
Post by Amy Joyce
the other way around. I doubt that there would have been complaint in
having specific doctors brought TO DALLAS to either perform, assist, or
observe. Another scenario was to leave Jackie with the body (and whomever
else to keep her safe, etc), while they left to attend to swear in the new
Hard to do an autopsy when you've just been vaporized by a nuclear bomb.
The last worry would be an autopsy if they feared a nuclear bomb.
True. No one was going to target Dallas, TX.
False. If this was WWIII, Dallas would be a prime target because the
Russians knew that's where the President was. How could they be sure
Kennedy was dead?
Post by mainframetech
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Amy Joyce
president - a task that didn't require Jackie or the body. There wasn't no
valid reason to take the body other than because someone else wanted the
body out of Dallas (quickly - before the autopsy could was performed
there). I'd forgotten about the limo. So there wasn't a separate
investigation as to why the body and limo were taken away from the scene
and investigators? It's shameful that citizens are expected to believe
that it's quite OK to remove pertinent evidence from the city, county, and
state of the crime - AWAY from primary investigators. Anyone else in the
country that did such things would have the four remaining fingers of the
investigating pointing at them.
bigdog
2017-06-09 13:19:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by mainframetech
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation? Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Of course, the stealing of the body and the limousine were necessary. If
the body were examined at Dallas by Dr. Rose, there would be clear indications
that JFK was shot by more than one shooter and from more than one
location, pointing to conspiracy. That could not be allowed to happen. The
'lone nut' scenario must be preserved at all costs, and at a military hospital
pathologists could be ordered to give a fake autopsy Report if given a
good enough reason to follow those orders. The possibility of starting WW3
is one excuse that was used during the JFK crisis, particularly by LBJ.
Later in the case, it was shown that the prosectors (pathologists) did
indeed make out a false Autopsy Report.
Chris
Chris, again I don't see how that can be ignored or casually waved off.
IMO, no other person(s) would have ever gotten away with removing the body
from a hospital before the autopsy (breaking the law), and taking it out
of state to perform an autopsy elsewhere (breaking the law). Knowing that
this occurred and discovering that there were large discrepancies between
witnesses as to the condition of the body (wounds) tells me that the
reason the body was taken elsewhere was to manipulate either the body or
falsify "official" reports pertaining to it. There is no way I can trust
that.
From what I understand the reason the body was taken was because Jackie
wouldn't leave without it, which sounds like a pathetic excuse. They could
have easily decided to stay in Dallas for a few hours until the autopsy
was finished and then taken the body afterward... that is if the main
concern was actually to not leaving without Jackie.
The main concern was getting the new President into the relative safety of
the air. The SS had no idea if or when the other shoe might drop. They
didn't want LBJ to be a sitting duck if that were to happen. The problem
was he wasn't going to leave Jackie behind and she wasn't going to leave
the body behind so the only way to get LBJ to agree to leave Dallas was to
get the widow and her husband's body on the plane.
Post by Amy Joyce
They could have also
requested that the other ME/doctor(s) be brought to the body, instead of
the other way around. I doubt that there would have been complaint in
having specific doctors brought TO DALLAS to either perform, assist, or
observe. Another scenario was to leave Jackie with the body (and whomever
else to keep her safe, etc), while they left to attend to swear in the new
president - a task that didn't require Jackie or the body. There wasn't no
valid reason to take the body other than because someone else wanted the
body out of Dallas (quickly - before the autopsy could was performed
there). I'd forgotten about the limo. So there wasn't a separate
investigation as to why the body and limo were taken away from the scene
and investigators? It's shameful that citizens are expected to believe
that it's quite OK to remove pertinent evidence from the city, county, and
state of the crime - AWAY from primary investigators. Anyone else in the
country that did such things would have the four remaining fingers of the
investigating pointing at them.
Amy Joyce
2017-06-10 12:43:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by mainframetech
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation? Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Of course, the stealing of the body and the limousine were necessary. If
the body were examined at Dallas by Dr. Rose, there would be clear indications
that JFK was shot by more than one shooter and from more than one
location, pointing to conspiracy. That could not be allowed to happen. The
'lone nut' scenario must be preserved at all costs, and at a military hospital
pathologists could be ordered to give a fake autopsy Report if given a
good enough reason to follow those orders. The possibility of starting WW3
is one excuse that was used during the JFK crisis, particularly by LBJ.
Later in the case, it was shown that the prosectors (pathologists) did
indeed make out a false Autopsy Report.
Chris
Chris, again I don't see how that can be ignored or casually waved off.
IMO, no other person(s) would have ever gotten away with removing the body
from a hospital before the autopsy (breaking the law), and taking it out
of state to perform an autopsy elsewhere (breaking the law). Knowing that
this occurred and discovering that there were large discrepancies between
witnesses as to the condition of the body (wounds) tells me that the
reason the body was taken elsewhere was to manipulate either the body or
falsify "official" reports pertaining to it. There is no way I can trust
that.
From what I understand the reason the body was taken was because Jackie
wouldn't leave without it, which sounds like a pathetic excuse. They could
have easily decided to stay in Dallas for a few hours until the autopsy
was finished and then taken the body afterward... that is if the main
concern was actually to not leaving without Jackie.
The main concern was getting the new President into the relative safety of
the air. The SS had no idea if or when the other shoe might drop. They
didn't want LBJ to be a sitting duck if that were to happen. The problem
was he wasn't going to leave Jackie behind and she wasn't going to leave
the body behind so the only way to get LBJ to agree to leave Dallas was to
get the widow and her husband's body on the plane.
Please see the response I made to Marsh about that, above.
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
They could have also
requested that the other ME/doctor(s) be brought to the body, instead of
the other way around. I doubt that there would have been complaint in
having specific doctors brought TO DALLAS to either perform, assist, or
observe. Another scenario was to leave Jackie with the body (and whomever
else to keep her safe, etc), while they left to attend to swear in the new
president - a task that didn't require Jackie or the body. There wasn't no
valid reason to take the body other than because someone else wanted the
body out of Dallas (quickly - before the autopsy could was performed
there). I'd forgotten about the limo. So there wasn't a separate
investigation as to why the body and limo were taken away from the scene
and investigators? It's shameful that citizens are expected to believe
that it's quite OK to remove pertinent evidence from the city, county, and
state of the crime - AWAY from primary investigators. Anyone else in the
country that did such things would have the four remaining fingers of the
investigating pointing at them.
bigdog
2017-06-11 04:17:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by mainframetech
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation? Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Of course, the stealing of the body and the limousine were necessary. If
the body were examined at Dallas by Dr. Rose, there would be clear indications
that JFK was shot by more than one shooter and from more than one
location, pointing to conspiracy. That could not be allowed to happen. The
'lone nut' scenario must be preserved at all costs, and at a military hospital
pathologists could be ordered to give a fake autopsy Report if given a
good enough reason to follow those orders. The possibility of starting WW3
is one excuse that was used during the JFK crisis, particularly by LBJ.
Later in the case, it was shown that the prosectors (pathologists) did
indeed make out a false Autopsy Report.
Chris
Chris, again I don't see how that can be ignored or casually waved off.
IMO, no other person(s) would have ever gotten away with removing the body
from a hospital before the autopsy (breaking the law), and taking it out
of state to perform an autopsy elsewhere (breaking the law). Knowing that
this occurred and discovering that there were large discrepancies between
witnesses as to the condition of the body (wounds) tells me that the
reason the body was taken elsewhere was to manipulate either the body or
falsify "official" reports pertaining to it. There is no way I can trust
that.
From what I understand the reason the body was taken was because Jackie
wouldn't leave without it, which sounds like a pathetic excuse. They could
have easily decided to stay in Dallas for a few hours until the autopsy
was finished and then taken the body afterward... that is if the main
concern was actually to not leaving without Jackie.
The main concern was getting the new President into the relative safety of
the air. The SS had no idea if or when the other shoe might drop. They
didn't want LBJ to be a sitting duck if that were to happen. The problem
was he wasn't going to leave Jackie behind and she wasn't going to leave
the body behind so the only way to get LBJ to agree to leave Dallas was to
get the widow and her husband's body on the plane.
Please see the response I made to Marsh about that, above.
Your explanation overlooks one important factor. LBJ was calling the
shots. The SS worked for him. More important he was the commander-in-chief
and the pilot of AF1 was Air Force so he wasn't going to commit a court
martial offense by taking off against the orders of LBJ.

While at the time it couldn't be ruled out the assassination was a
precursor to a preemptive strike by the Soviets, I doubt that was foremost
in LBJ's mind. He was a shrewd politician who already knew he would be the
Democrat nominee for President in 1964. It would have made for a very bad
visual for him to hightail it out of Dallas leaving behind the body of his
murdered predecessor and his widow. That plane wasn't going anywhere
without LBJ's say so and that wasn't going to happen until the body and
Jackie were on the plane. Even after she was aboard they didn't take off
until LBJ had taken the oath of office.
Anthony Marsh
2017-06-10 12:44:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by mainframetech
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation? Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Of course, the stealing of the body and the limousine were necessary. If
the body were examined at Dallas by Dr. Rose, there would be clear indications
that JFK was shot by more than one shooter and from more than one
location, pointing to conspiracy. That could not be allowed to happen. The
'lone nut' scenario must be preserved at all costs, and at a military hospital
pathologists could be ordered to give a fake autopsy Report if given a
good enough reason to follow those orders. The possibility of starting WW3
is one excuse that was used during the JFK crisis, particularly by LBJ.
Later in the case, it was shown that the prosectors (pathologists) did
indeed make out a false Autopsy Report.
Chris
Chris, again I don't see how that can be ignored or casually waved off.
IMO, no other person(s) would have ever gotten away with removing the body
from a hospital before the autopsy (breaking the law), and taking it out
of state to perform an autopsy elsewhere (breaking the law). Knowing that
this occurred and discovering that there were large discrepancies between
witnesses as to the condition of the body (wounds) tells me that the
reason the body was taken elsewhere was to manipulate either the body or
falsify "official" reports pertaining to it. There is no way I can trust
that.
From what I understand the reason the body was taken was because Jackie
wouldn't leave without it, which sounds like a pathetic excuse. They could
have easily decided to stay in Dallas for a few hours until the autopsy
was finished and then taken the body afterward... that is if the main
concern was actually to not leaving without Jackie.
The main concern was getting the new President into the relative safety of
the air. The SS had no idea if or when the other shoe might drop. They
didn't want LBJ to be a sitting duck if that were to happen. The problem
was he wasn't going to leave Jackie behind and she wasn't going to leave
the body behind so the only way to get LBJ to agree to leave Dallas was to
get the widow and her husband's body on the plane.
Almost 100% correct. Another factors was the President having access to
the launch codes and secure radio in case of WWIII.
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
They could have also
requested that the other ME/doctor(s) be brought to the body, instead of
the other way around. I doubt that there would have been complaint in
having specific doctors brought TO DALLAS to either perform, assist, or
observe. Another scenario was to leave Jackie with the body (and whomever
else to keep her safe, etc), while they left to attend to swear in the new
president - a task that didn't require Jackie or the body. There wasn't no
valid reason to take the body other than because someone else wanted the
body out of Dallas (quickly - before the autopsy could was performed
there). I'd forgotten about the limo. So there wasn't a separate
investigation as to why the body and limo were taken away from the scene
and investigators? It's shameful that citizens are expected to believe
that it's quite OK to remove pertinent evidence from the city, county, and
state of the crime - AWAY from primary investigators. Anyone else in the
country that did such things would have the four remaining fingers of the
investigating pointing at them.
mainframetech
2017-06-09 13:45:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by mainframetech
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation? Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Of course, the stealing of the body and the limousine were necessary. If
the body were examined at Dallas by Dr. Rose, there would be clear indications
that JFK was shot by more than one shooter and from more than one
location, pointing to conspiracy. That could not be allowed to happen. The
'lone nut' scenario must be preserved at all costs, and at a military hospital
pathologists could be ordered to give a fake autopsy Report if given a
good enough reason to follow those orders. The possibility of starting WW3
is one excuse that was used during the JFK crisis, particularly by LBJ.
Later in the case, it was shown that the prosectors (pathologists) did
indeed make out a false Autopsy Report.
Chris
Chris, again I don't see how that can be ignored or casually waved off.
IMO, no other person(s) would have ever gotten away with removing the body
from a hospital before the autopsy (breaking the law), and taking it out
of state to perform an autopsy elsewhere (breaking the law). Knowing that
this occurred and discovering that there were large discrepancies between
witnesses as to the condition of the body (wounds) tells me that the
reason the body was taken elsewhere was to manipulate either the body or
falsify "official" reports pertaining to it. There is no way I can trust
that.
Amy, BOTH were what happened, and you were sharp to realize those were
the possibilities. As we go through the various questions in the case,
I'll show you those points as well with the backup from the files.
Post by Amy Joyce
From what I understand the reason the body was taken was because Jackie
wouldn't leave without it, which sounds like a pathetic excuse. They could
have easily decided to stay in Dallas for a few hours until the autopsy
was finished and then taken the body afterward... that is if the main
concern was actually to not leaving without Jackie. They could have also
requested that the other ME/doctor(s) be brought to the body, instead of
the other way around. I doubt that there would have been complaint in
having specific doctors brought TO DALLAS to either perform, assist, or
observe. Another scenario was to leave Jackie with the body (and whomever
else to keep her safe, etc), while they left to attend to swear in the new
president - a task that didn't require Jackie or the body. There wasn't no
valid reason to take the body other than because someone else wanted the
body out of Dallas (quickly - before the autopsy could was performed
there). I'd forgotten about the limo. So there wasn't a separate
investigation as to why the body and limo were taken away from the scene
and investigators? It's shameful that citizens are expected to believe
that it's quite OK to remove pertinent evidence from the city, county, and
state of the crime - AWAY from primary investigators. Anyone else in the
country that did such things would have the four remaining fingers of the
investigating pointing at them.
The plotters knew that there was emotional reasons they could get away
with stealing the body and the limo. For those SS agents that weren't in
on the plot, they would have thought that idea that Jackie had to be
gotten back to Washington, their 'home'. Among my suspects are Kellerman,
who was instrumental in the body stealing episode.


Next in the sequence of the killing was the body being altered to look
more like it had been shot from above and behind. Here are the elements
of that question:

Once the body was ion the air with the limousine, there was much radio
communication from the SS agents and the home base for the Secret Service.
Here are some of the bits of radio chat from the AF1 plane to the ground
while the plane was in the air from Dallas to Washington:


"- Arrangements have been made for a helicopter for Bethesda Naval Medical Center. Over.
- Standby, Jerry, we’re going to have to get Berkley here.
- Okay. Go ahead.
- Air Force One, Andrews. Duplex is on. Duplex is on the air.
- Duplex is on. This is Dr. Burkley. What arrangements have been made with regard to the reception of the President?
- The….everybody aboard Air Force One, everyone aboard Air Force One, with the exception of the body, will be choppered into the South Ground. The body will be choppered to the Naval Medical Center at Bethesda. Over.
- The body will be choppered or go by ambulance to the Navy Medical Center?
- Will be choppered, will be choppered."


They supposedly decided to also use a motorcade to move the body in an
ambulance to Bethesda hospital. But it appears from circumstances that
the helicopter was used to move the body to Bethesda much earlier than the
ambulance in the motorcade, which had the family and the SS and FBI agents
along.

There was a 'general Wehle' and his aide Richard Lipsey, whose job it
was to fix funeral and other military functions in the Washington area.
Here's Lipsey being interviewed:

"We met the body at Andrews Airforce Base. We had everything organized by
that afternoon. We had Marines organized with their little Honor Guard. We
had the men from Ft. Meyer, the third old [?] guard, the guys like at
Humphry's funeral, the ceremonial guard that watched the casket. The
ceremonial troop in Washington had been arranged to meet the body at
Andrews. Put it in a hearse. We had a decoy hearse because we knew there
was a mob waiting at Bethesda Naval Hospital. So we got in a couple of
these helicopters with our honor guard when they left and flew over to the
hospital to get there before they did. And when they came in, one of the
hearses went right up to the front door. All of the crowd, of course,
rushed over there. The one with the body in it went around to the back
where the morgue was and we unloaded it. We met them in the back and
unloaded it right there to avoid the news media and the crowd and
everything else.


Q: The body was brought in the rear?


LIPSEY: The body was brought in the back door, backed right up to the
loading ramp right immediately next to the morgue. And we unloaded it
there and then Jackie Kennedy and her family and everybody that was, you
know, flown to Washington and come back with the body, they came in the
hospital the front way and went upstairs to the Presidential Suite at the
hospital."

From: https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/med_testimony/Lipsey_1-18-78/HSCA-Lipsey.htm

This is the HSCA interview.

What happened, which I will detail with backup, is that the body was
helicoptered to Bethesda and loaded in the back door of the morgue. The
regular motorcade with the 'decoy' casket and ambulance went along the
road and got to the hospital main entrance later.


At some point not defined, probably on the AF1 plane, the body was
moved into a military SHIPPING casket, which is very plain and usually
grey, like this:

Loading Image...

Although it is not sure how they got the body into the shipping casket,
probably while on the plane, there is no doubt that the body of JFK came
out of the shipping casket at the Bethesda morgue at 6:35pm. The excuse
for doing that was that the press were going to follow the casket and that
would mean that Jackie would have to put up with them. The real reason
(in my belief) was to get the body into a different casket apart from the
family and the agents and get it to Bethesda earlier so that work could be
done on the body without all the family and agents around.

I believe that one or more agents while on the AF1 plane helped to get
the body moved into the SHIPPING casket from the Bronze casket, and they
would not speak of it, because the public would not be happy that they
were playing musical caskets with the body of the POTUS. There was an
emergency exit right there at the rear of the AF1 plane in the galley
area, where the casket could be loaded into the lane, and removed and
which would look like any servicing module for the galley. I believe the
SHIPPING casket was loaded out of the plane by a forklift on the far side
of the plane which would not be noticed, and the casket could then be put
on a waiting helicopter.


At 6:35pm a Marine Sergeant recorded in his after action report that
the casket arrived at 1835 (6:35pm):

Loading Image...


The casket was a Bronze ceremonial casket, with a broken handle. It
came down from the plane in a scissors lift and was put in an ambulance,
and the family and agents went along with it.

In the meantime, the military SHIPPING casket was moved into the
morgue where Dr. Humes and Boswell were waiting impatiently. A corpsman
was in charge of a small detail that helped bring in the casket:

"He said the driver and the "person riding shotgun" (i.e., front seat
passenger) were wearing OR (operating room) smocks. Four or five men in
blue suits, whom he assumed were Federal agents, exited the back of the
hearse, and supervised and observed while the Navy sailors (approximately
7 or 8 people) working for him offloaded the casket which was in the
hearse. He said it was a simple, gray shipping casket such as he
frequently saw used later in the Vietnam war."

From: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=708#relPageId=2&tab=page
see Page 3


One of the men that helped bring the body in the SHIPPING casket into
the morgue was Edward Reed, X-ray Technician. He said in ARRB sworn
testimony:

"Q: And what did you observe next?
A: And next, We were instructed to -
Someone opened the casket. I forget who exactly.
It was an enlisted man.
Q: Is this in the hallway?
A: Yes. Let me - No, I’m sorry. We did
not open it in the hallway. We carried it into the
morgue.
Q: Did you, yourself, help carry it?
A: Yes, I did."

And:

"Q: After you -You took the casket into the
morgue; is that correct?
A: That’s correct.
Q: What did you do when it arrived in the
morgue?
A: Someone opened it up.
We all stood back. Someone opened it up,
and we were allowed to look into the casket. From
our vantage point, we were able to see into the
casket.
Q: Was it - was the casket on the floor?
A: Yes, it was.
Q: Do you recall now who opened the casket?
A: No, I don’t.
Q: After the casket was opened, what did you
see?
A: I was able to look in. and I saw President
Kennedy without - completely nude in a plastic
bag."

From: http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/arrb/medical_testimony/pdf/Reed_10-21-97.pdf

pages 22-24



They got right to work first searching for bullets, which was mentioned
in the sworn testimony of the X-ray Technicians, who helped them. They
removed any they found and searched the body for all that might be there.
There is a messy tracheotomy in the throat that normally was neat and
small a cut to allow a tube to go there for air. When you see the photos
of the body after it arrived at Bethesda, the throat wound is large and
messy, and I believe that is from the digging around to find and remove
the bullet there.

While this clandestine work was going on, there were a few men in the
gallery watching them do this work. This was hours BEFORE the scheduled
autopsy, yet some folks try to say it was part of the autopsy. It was
not. Humes and Boswell tried to cover up that they had done this
clandestine work later, so it was not scheduled.

As he watched the work on the body going on, Edward watched from the
gallery, which was empty at this time:

"Q: What was the first incision?
A: The cranium.The scalp, right here.
Q: And can you describe how that procedure -
A: Commander Humes made an incision. After
we brought all the X-rays back, we were all allowed
to sit up in the podium and observe.
And Commander Humes made an incision -
that I could see from my vantage point - an
incision in the forehead, and brought back the
scalp.
Q: Okay.
A: Like this.
Q: And you were making a line first across
the top of your forehead. roughly along the
hairline -
A: With a scalpel.
Q: - and then pulling the scalp back.
A: That’s correct. Just like this.
Q: What else did you observe from where you
were with regard to any incisions or operations on
the head?
A: Well, after about 20 minutes, Commander
Humes took out a saw, and started to cut the
forehead with the bone - with the saw. Mechanical
saw. Circular, small, mechanical
almost like a cast saw, but it’s made -
Q: Sure.
A: - specifically for bone."

Page 58
http://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/arrb/medical_testimony/pdf/Reed_10-21-97.pdf


Humes realized after a while that he had an audience and he kicked them
out of the morgue and finished his work on the body. By comparing the
body and wounds from Parkland to Bethesda after the clandestine work Humes
did, it was determine that the head wound at the BOH was expanded around
the right side of the head, and some on the top. There seems to have been
also a flap of skull that was cut partly out that swung out in front of
the right ear. This may have been to mimic an exit wound from a BOH entry
point.

Amy, if you have questions about this part of the case, let me know.
This part is usually hard to explain and to grasp.

Chris
Anthony Marsh
2017-06-10 12:37:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by mainframetech
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by mainframetech
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation? Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Of course, the stealing of the body and the limousine were necessary. If
the body were examined at Dallas by Dr. Rose, there would be clear indications
that JFK was shot by more than one shooter and from more than one
location, pointing to conspiracy. That could not be allowed to happen. The
'lone nut' scenario must be preserved at all costs, and at a military hospital
pathologists could be ordered to give a fake autopsy Report if given a
good enough reason to follow those orders. The possibility of starting WW3
is one excuse that was used during the JFK crisis, particularly by LBJ.
Later in the case, it was shown that the prosectors (pathologists) did
indeed make out a false Autopsy Report.
Chris
Chris, again I don't see how that can be ignored or casually waved off.
IMO, no other person(s) would have ever gotten away with removing the body
from a hospital before the autopsy (breaking the law), and taking it out
of state to perform an autopsy elsewhere (breaking the law). Knowing that
this occurred and discovering that there were large discrepancies between
witnesses as to the condition of the body (wounds) tells me that the
reason the body was taken elsewhere was to manipulate either the body or
falsify "official" reports pertaining to it. There is no way I can trust
that.
Amy, BOTH were what happened, and you were sharp to realize those were
the possibilities. As we go through the various questions in the case,
I'll show you those points as well with the backup from the files.
Post by Amy Joyce
From what I understand the reason the body was taken was because Jackie
wouldn't leave without it, which sounds like a pathetic excuse. They could
have easily decided to stay in Dallas for a few hours until the autopsy
was finished and then taken the body afterward... that is if the main
concern was actually to not leaving without Jackie. They could have also
requested that the other ME/doctor(s) be brought to the body, instead of
the other way around. I doubt that there would have been complaint in
having specific doctors brought TO DALLAS to either perform, assist, or
observe. Another scenario was to leave Jackie with the body (and whomever
else to keep her safe, etc), while they left to attend to swear in the new
president - a task that didn't require Jackie or the body. There wasn't no
valid reason to take the body other than because someone else wanted the
body out of Dallas (quickly - before the autopsy could was performed
there). I'd forgotten about the limo. So there wasn't a separate
investigation as to why the body and limo were taken away from the scene
and investigators? It's shameful that citizens are expected to believe
that it's quite OK to remove pertinent evidence from the city, county, and
state of the crime - AWAY from primary investigators. Anyone else in the
country that did such things would have the four remaining fingers of the
investigating pointing at them.
The plotters knew that there was emotional reasons they could get away
with stealing the body and the limo. For those SS agents that weren't in
on the plot, they would have thought that idea that Jackie had to be
There were no SS agents in on the plot. They were only following orders
from the President, LBJ.
Post by mainframetech
gotten back to Washington, their 'home'. Among my suspects are Kellerman,
who was instrumental in the body stealing episode.
It's not home that is the criterion. It must be a secure military facility.
Post by mainframetech
Next in the sequence of the killing was the body being altered to look
more like it had been shot from above and behind. Here are the elements
No.
Are you a Liftonite who claims that ALL shots came from the front?
Wouldn't you at least want to fire a few shots at the limo from behind
to make it look good?
Post by mainframetech
Once the body was ion the air with the limousine, there was much radio
communication from the SS agents and the home base for the Secret Service.
Here are some of the bits of radio chat from the AF1 plane to the ground
"- Arrangements have been made for a helicopter for Bethesda Naval Medical Center. Over.
- Standby, Jerry, we’re going to have to get Berkley here.
- Okay. Go ahead.
- Air Force One, Andrews. Duplex is on. Duplex is on the air.
- Duplex is on. This is Dr. Burkley. What arrangements have been made with regard to the reception of the President?
- The….everybody aboard Air Force One, everyone aboard Air Force One, with the exception of the body, will be choppered into the South Ground. The body will be choppered to the Naval Medical Center at Bethesda. Over.
- The body will be choppered or go by ambulance to the Navy Medical Center?
- Will be choppered, will be choppered."
They supposedly decided to also use a motorcade to move the body in an
ambulance to Bethesda hospital. But it appears from circumstances that
the helicopter was used to move the body to Bethesda much earlier than the
ambulance in the motorcade, which had the family and the SS and FBI agents
along.
There was a 'general Wehle' and his aide Richard Lipsey, whose job it
was to fix funeral and other military functions in the Washington area.
"We met the body at Andrews Airforce Base. We had everything organized by
that afternoon. We had Marines organized with their little Honor Guard. We
had the men from Ft. Meyer, the third old [?] guard, the guys like at
Humphry's funeral, the ceremonial guard that watched the casket. The
ceremonial troop in Washington had been arranged to meet the body at
Andrews. Put it in a hearse. We had a decoy hearse because we knew there
was a mob waiting at Bethesda Naval Hospital. So we got in a couple of
these helicopters with our honor guard when they left and flew over to the
hospital to get there before they did. And when they came in, one of the
hearses went right up to the front door. All of the crowd, of course,
rushed over there. The one with the body in it went around to the back
where the morgue was and we unloaded it. We met them in the back and
unloaded it right there to avoid the news media and the crowd and
everything else.
Q: The body was brought in the rear?
LIPSEY: The body was brought in the back door, backed right up to the
loading ramp right immediately next to the morgue. And we unloaded it
there and then Jackie Kennedy and her family and everybody that was, you
know, flown to Washington and come back with the body, they came in the
hospital the front way and went upstairs to the Presidential Suite at the
hospital."
From: https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/med_testimony/Lipsey_1-18-78/HSCA-Lipsey.htm
This is the HSCA interview.
What happened, which I will detail with backup, is that the body was
helicoptered to Bethesda and loaded in the back door of the morgue. The
regular motorcade with the 'decoy' casket and ambulance went along the
road and got to the hospital main entrance later.
At some point not defined, probably on the AF1 plane, the body was
moved into a military SHIPPING casket, which is very plain and usually
http://www.jfklancer.com/pub/md/shipcasket.JPG
Although it is not sure how they got the body into the shipping casket,
probably while on the plane, there is no doubt that the body of JFK came
out of the shipping casket at the Bethesda morgue at 6:35pm. The excuse
for doing that was that the press were going to follow the casket and that
would mean that Jackie would have to put up with them. The real reason
(in my belief) was to get the body into a different casket apart from the
family and the agents and get it to Bethesda earlier so that work could be
done on the body without all the family and agents around.
I believe that one or more agents while on the AF1 plane helped to get
the body moved into the SHIPPING casket from the Bronze casket, and they
Did Jackie help them? Just how big are you making this conspiracy?
Post by mainframetech
would not speak of it, because the public would not be happy that they
were playing musical caskets with the body of the POTUS. There was an
emergency exit right there at the rear of the AF1 plane in the galley
area, where the casket could be loaded into the lane, and removed and
which would look like any servicing module for the galley. I believe the
SHIPPING casket was loaded out of the plane by a forklift on the far side
of the plane which would not be noticed, and the casket could then be put
on a waiting helicopter.
So your idea is that the used a shipping casket to pretend that they
were delivering pizza? Now we know who did it, Domino's!
Post by mainframetech
At 6:35pm a Marine Sergeant recorded in his after action report that
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/arrb/master_med_set/md236/pages/md236_0005a.gif
The casket was a Bronze ceremonial casket, with a broken handle. It
came down from the plane in a scissors lift and was put in an ambulance,
and the family and agents went along with it.
In the meantime, the military SHIPPING casket was moved into the
morgue where Dr. Humes and Boswell were waiting impatiently. A corpsman
"He said the driver and the "person riding shotgun" (i.e., front seat
passenger) were wearing OR (operating room) smocks. Four or five men in
blue suits, whom he assumed were Federal agents, exited the back of the
hearse, and supervised and observed while the Navy sailors (approximately
7 or 8 people) working for him offloaded the casket which was in the
hearse. He said it was a simple, gray shipping casket such as he
frequently saw used later in the Vietnam war."
From: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=708#relPageId=2&tab=page
see Page 3
One of the men that helped bring the body in the SHIPPING casket into
the morgue was Edward Reed, X-ray Technician. He said in ARRB sworn
"Q: And what did you observe next?
A: And next, We were instructed to -
Someone opened the casket. I forget who exactly.
It was an enlisted man.
Q: Is this in the hallway?
A: Yes. Let me - No, I’m sorry. We did
not open it in the hallway. We carried it into the
morgue.
Q: Did you, yourself, help carry it?
A: Yes, I did."
"Q: After you -You took the casket into the
morgue; is that correct?
A: That’s correct.
Q: What did you do when it arrived in the
morgue?
A: Someone opened it up.
We all stood back. Someone opened it up,
and we were allowed to look into the casket. From
our vantage point, we were able to see into the
casket.
Q: Was it - was the casket on the floor?
A: Yes, it was.
Q: Do you recall now who opened the casket?
A: No, I don’t.
Q: After the casket was opened, what did you
see?
A: I was able to look in. and I saw President
Kennedy without - completely nude in a plastic
bag."
From: http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/arrb/medical_testimony/pdf/Reed_10-21-97.pdf
pages 22-24
They got right to work first searching for bullets, which was mentioned
in the sworn testimony of the X-ray Technicians, who helped them. They
removed any they found and searched the body for all that might be there.
There is a messy tracheotomy in the throat that normally was neat and
small a cut to allow a tube to go there for air. When you see the photos
of the body after it arrived at Bethesda, the throat wound is large and
messy, and I believe that is from the digging around to find and remove
the bullet there.
While this clandestine work was going on, there were a few men in the
gallery watching them do this work. This was hours BEFORE the scheduled
autopsy, yet some folks try to say it was part of the autopsy. It was
not. Humes and Boswell tried to cover up that they had done this
clandestine work later, so it was not scheduled.
As he watched the work on the body going on, Edward watched from the
"Q: What was the first incision?
A: The cranium.The scalp, right here.
Q: And can you describe how that procedure -
A: Commander Humes made an incision. After
we brought all the X-rays back, we were all allowed
to sit up in the podium and observe.
And Commander Humes made an incision -
that I could see from my vantage point - an
incision in the forehead, and brought back the
scalp.
Q: Okay.
A: Like this.
Q: And you were making a line first across
the top of your forehead. roughly along the
hairline -
A: With a scalpel.
Q: - and then pulling the scalp back.
A: That’s correct. Just like this.
Q: What else did you observe from where you
were with regard to any incisions or operations on
the head?
A: Well, after about 20 minutes, Commander
Humes took out a saw, and started to cut the
forehead with the bone - with the saw. Mechanical
saw. Circular, small, mechanical
almost like a cast saw, but it’s made -
Q: Sure.
A: - specifically for bone."
Page 58
http://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/arrb/medical_testimony/pdf/Reed_10-21-97.pdf
Humes realized after a while that he had an audience and he kicked them
out of the morgue and finished his work on the body. By comparing the
body and wounds from Parkland to Bethesda after the clandestine work Humes
did, it was determine that the head wound at the BOH was expanded around
the right side of the head, and some on the top. There seems to have been
also a flap of skull that was cut partly out that swung out in front of
the right ear. This may have been to mimic an exit wound from a BOH entry
point.
Amy, if you have questions about this part of the case, let me know.
This part is usually hard to explain and to grasp.
Chris
bigdog
2017-06-07 16:01:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
Pure mythology that guns were ever brandished. There was lots of yelling
and cursing but no violence. Eventually cooler heads prevailed and the SS
was eventually allowed to take the body under specific conditions, one of
which was that Admiral Burkey stay with the body until a legal autopsy was
performed.
Post by Amy Joyce
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Nobody threatened to kill anyone. The SS was doing their job too, guarding
the life of the President to the best of their ability. Having lost one
President that day they weren't about to lose another. At that point they
had no idea who was behind the assassination. For all they knew it was an
attempt by the Soviets to decapitate the government. For that reason they
wanted to get LBJ out of Dallas and AF1 in the air ASAP. LBJ was not going
to leave Dallas without Jackie and Jackie was not going to leave without
the body so the only way to get the new President out of Dallas was to
take the body. That was done without any violence or threat of
violence.
Post by Amy Joyce
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
The federal government has been usurping state powers for as long as I've
been around and long before that. The federal government does that for one
simple reason. It can.
Post by Amy Joyce
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
That's the way it would have happened in a Pollyanna world.
Post by Amy Joyce
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation?
Damn good question. Why would we expect the federal government to respect
state powers. It never has before.
Post by Amy Joyce
Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
There was nothing normal about the situation. The SS had one concern at
that point. Protecting the life of the new President. They were going to
do that by whatever means necessary. Prosecuting the crime was somebody
else's worry.
Post by Amy Joyce
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
Nobody threatened deadly force.
Post by Amy Joyce
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
ER doctors are not trained to determine if wounds are entrance or exit
wounds. They are trained to patch the wounds up. Forensic pathologists are
the ones whose job it is to determine the nature of the wounds suffered by
gun shot victims.
Post by Amy Joyce
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Most of them didn't look closely at the wound due to the fact they all had
other tasks to perform. What they didn't realize was the hole in the back
of the head was just the rear portion of a much larger blowout that
extended all along the upper right side of the head. By closing the skull
flaps over that large defect, Jackie concealed the true extent of the
wound from casual observers. What she couldn't close was the rear portion
of the blowout because that piece of skull had detached.
Anthony Marsh
2017-06-08 14:36:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
Pure mythology that guns were ever brandished. There was lots of yelling
and cursing but no violence. Eventually cooler heads prevailed and the SS
was eventually allowed to take the body under specific conditions, one of
which was that Admiral Burkey stay with the body until a legal autopsy was
performed.
Post by Amy Joyce
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Nobody threatened to kill anyone. The SS was doing their job too, guarding
the life of the President to the best of their ability. Having lost one
President that day they weren't about to lose another. At that point they
had no idea who was behind the assassination. For all they knew it was an
attempt by the Soviets to decapitate the government. For that reason they
wanted to get LBJ out of Dallas and AF1 in the air ASAP. LBJ was not going
to leave Dallas without Jackie and Jackie was not going to leave without
the body so the only way to get the new President out of Dallas was to
take the body. That was done without any violence or threat of
violence.
Post by Amy Joyce
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
The federal government has been usurping state powers for as long as I've
been around and long before that. The federal government does that for one
simple reason. It can.
Post by Amy Joyce
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
That's the way it would have happened in a Pollyanna world.
There was nothing Pollyanna about it. It was not a normal murder case.
We were on the brink of nuclear war.
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation?
Damn good question. Why would we expect the federal government to respect
state powers. It never has before.
Post by Amy Joyce
Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
There was nothing normal about the situation. The SS had one concern at
that point. Protecting the life of the new President. They were going to
do that by whatever means necessary. Prosecuting the crime was somebody
else's worry.
Post by Amy Joyce
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
Nobody threatened deadly force.
Post by Amy Joyce
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
ER doctors are not trained to determine if wounds are entrance or exit
wounds. They are trained to patch the wounds up. Forensic pathologists are
the ones whose job it is to determine the nature of the wounds suffered by
gun shot victims.
Post by Amy Joyce
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Most of them didn't look closely at the wound due to the fact they all had
other tasks to perform. What they didn't realize was the hole in the back
of the head was just the rear portion of a much larger blowout that
extended all along the upper right side of the head. By closing the skull
flaps over that large defect, Jackie concealed the true extent of the
wound from casual observers. What she couldn't close was the rear portion
of the blowout because that piece of skull had detached.
mainframetech
2017-06-08 19:14:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
Pure mythology that guns were ever brandished. There was lots of yelling
and cursing but no violence. Eventually cooler heads prevailed and the SS
was eventually allowed to take the body under specific conditions, one of
which was that Admiral Burkey stay with the body until a legal autopsy was
performed.
Post by Amy Joyce
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Nobody threatened to kill anyone. The SS was doing their job too, guarding
the life of the President to the best of their ability. Having lost one
President that day they weren't about to lose another. At that point they
had no idea who was behind the assassination. For all they knew it was an
attempt by the Soviets to decapitate the government. For that reason they
wanted to get LBJ out of Dallas and AF1 in the air ASAP. LBJ was not going
to leave Dallas without Jackie and Jackie was not going to leave without
the body so the only way to get the new President out of Dallas was to
take the body. That was done without any violence or threat of
violence.
Post by Amy Joyce
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
The federal government has been usurping state powers for as long as I've
been around and long before that. The federal government does that for one
simple reason. It can.
Post by Amy Joyce
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
That's the way it would have happened in a Pollyanna world.
Post by Amy Joyce
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation?
Damn good question. Why would we expect the federal government to respect
state powers. It never has before.
Face it. The body and the limousine HAD to be stolen from Dallas so
that no autopsy could be done except at a military hospital where the
doctors could be ordered to do what was wanted and give a false autopsy
report. If Dr. Rose had ben able to do any part of an autopsy the jog
would be up, and it would be known that it was a conspiracy, and Oswald
was innocent of shooting JFK.
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
There was nothing normal about the situation. The SS had one concern at
that point. Protecting the life of the new President. They were going to
do that by whatever means necessary. Prosecuting the crime was somebody
else's worry.
Post by Amy Joyce
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
Nobody threatened deadly force.
Post by Amy Joyce
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
ER doctors are not trained to determine if wounds are entrance or exit
wounds. They are trained to patch the wounds up. Forensic pathologists are
the ones whose job it is to determine the nature of the wounds suffered by
gun shot victims.
Oh crap! Parkland handled many bullet wounds throughout the year.
They knew very well from experience what was an entry vs. an exit wound.
Stop trying to cover up their conclusions.
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Most of them didn't look closely at the wound due to the fact they all had
other tasks to perform. What they didn't realize was the hole in the back
of the head was just the rear portion of a much larger blowout that
extended all along the upper right side of the head. By closing the skull
flaps over that large defect, Jackie concealed the true extent of the
wound from casual observers. What she couldn't close was the rear portion
of the blowout because that piece of skull had detached.
COMPLETELY FALSE! The 'large hole' in the BOH was seen by over 39
witnesses and was the size of a baseball or an orange, to quote the
witnesses. It was NOT going around the right side of the head until AFTER
the body got to Bethesda and Humes and Boswell got at it and did their
clandestine work on it.

Chris
bigdog
2017-06-09 13:18:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by mainframetech
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
Pure mythology that guns were ever brandished. There was lots of yelling
and cursing but no violence. Eventually cooler heads prevailed and the SS
was eventually allowed to take the body under specific conditions, one of
which was that Admiral Burkey stay with the body until a legal autopsy was
performed.
Post by Amy Joyce
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Nobody threatened to kill anyone. The SS was doing their job too, guarding
the life of the President to the best of their ability. Having lost one
President that day they weren't about to lose another. At that point they
had no idea who was behind the assassination. For all they knew it was an
attempt by the Soviets to decapitate the government. For that reason they
wanted to get LBJ out of Dallas and AF1 in the air ASAP. LBJ was not going
to leave Dallas without Jackie and Jackie was not going to leave without
the body so the only way to get the new President out of Dallas was to
take the body. That was done without any violence or threat of
violence.
Post by Amy Joyce
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
The federal government has been usurping state powers for as long as I've
been around and long before that. The federal government does that for one
simple reason. It can.
Post by Amy Joyce
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
That's the way it would have happened in a Pollyanna world.
Post by Amy Joyce
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation?
Damn good question. Why would we expect the federal government to respect
state powers. It never has before.
Face it. The body and the limousine HAD to be stolen from Dallas so
that no autopsy could be done except at a military hospital where the
doctors could be ordered to do what was wanted and give a false autopsy
report.
So goes conspiracy hobbyist mythology.
Post by mainframetech
If Dr. Rose had ben able to do any part of an autopsy the jog
would be up, and it would be known that it was a conspiracy, and Oswald
was innocent of shooting JFK.
Dr. Rose was on the HSCA FPP which concurred with the finding by the
military pathologists that JFK was shot twice from behind and that the
shot that hit JFK in the back exited from his throat.

Vincent Bugliosi asked "Were you satisfied from your review of the autopsy
photos and x-rays that the autopsy surgeons reached the same conclusion
you would have reached if you had conducted the autopsy back in 1963 in
Dallas?"

Rose immediately and unequivocally answered , "Yes , there's no question
their conclusions were correct. Two shots entered the president from
behind, the entrance wound to the back exiting in the throat at the site
of the tracheotomy and the entrance wound to the back of the head exiting
in the right frontal temporal area.". The only place he said he disagreed
with the autopsy surgeons is that they reported the entrance wound to the
back of the head "too low , It was in the cowlick area.".

This is taken from Reclaiming History by Vincent Bugliosi.
Post by mainframetech
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
There was nothing normal about the situation. The SS had one concern at
that point. Protecting the life of the new President. They were going to
do that by whatever means necessary. Prosecuting the crime was somebody
else's worry.
Post by Amy Joyce
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
Nobody threatened deadly force.
Post by Amy Joyce
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
ER doctors are not trained to determine if wounds are entrance or exit
wounds. They are trained to patch the wounds up. Forensic pathologists are
the ones whose job it is to determine the nature of the wounds suffered by
gun shot victims.
Oh crap! Parkland handled many bullet wounds throughout the year.
They knew very well from experience what was an entry vs. an exit wound.
Stop trying to cover up their conclusions.
In all of the cases they handled, they were never required to determine
entrance wounds from exit wounds. That's not their job. Their job is to
save the life of the shooting victim. When they fail in that task, it
falls to the medical examiner to determine the nature of the wounds that
caused the victim to die. It's and entirely different skill set. The ER
doctors might form an opinion about whether a wound was an entrance or an
exit but that isn't their specialty so there is no guarantee their opinion
is accurate.
Post by mainframetech
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Most of them didn't look closely at the wound due to the fact they all had
other tasks to perform. What they didn't realize was the hole in the back
of the head was just the rear portion of a much larger blowout that
extended all along the upper right side of the head. By closing the skull
flaps over that large defect, Jackie concealed the true extent of the
wound from casual observers. What she couldn't close was the rear portion
of the blowout because that piece of skull had detached.
COMPLETELY FALSE! The 'large hole' in the BOH was seen by over 39
witnesses and was the size of a baseball or an orange, to quote the
witnesses.
The full extent of the defect in the skull was even bigger. It extended
into the temporal region which those who were able to view the wound
closes, including some of the Parkland team, were able to determine.
Post by mainframetech
It was NOT going around the right side of the head until AFTER
the body got to Bethesda and Humes and Boswell got at it and did their
clandestine work on it.
Bet you can't quote a witness who said that.
Amy Joyce
2017-06-08 19:31:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
Pure mythology that guns were ever brandished. There was lots of yelling
and cursing but no violence. Eventually cooler heads prevailed and the SS
was eventually allowed to take the body under specific conditions, one of
which was that Admiral Burkey stay with the body until a legal autopsy was
performed.
Guns exposed, pointed at a person or not, in a heated exchange of "yelling
and cursing" is hugely intimidating and can be reasonably interpreted of a
threat.
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Nobody threatened to kill anyone. The SS was doing their job too, guarding
the life of the President to the best of their ability. Having lost one
President that day they weren't about to lose another. At that point they
had no idea who was behind the assassination. For all they knew it was an
attempt by the Soviets to decapitate the government. For that reason they
wanted to get LBJ out of Dallas and AF1 in the air ASAP. LBJ was not going
to leave Dallas without Jackie and Jackie was not going to leave without
the body so the only way to get the new President out of Dallas was to
take the body. That was done without any violence or threat of violence.
They didn't think they could keep the new president safe in Dallas from a
supposed lone nut assassin that was already in police custody? Their job
was to keep the current president safe, not make decisions regarding the
deceased body of the former president. If LBJ made the decision and gave
orders to have the body removed, OK lets hear about it. If he didn't,
then there it was no business of the SS to take the matter into their
hands. It's a law and a law for a reason. I don't see the SS doing that
without consulting superior orders. All that I'm hearing are poor excuses
to defend someone's decision to break that law (not saying they are
yours).
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
The federal government has been usurping state powers for as long as I've
been around and long before that. The federal government does that for one
simple reason. It can.
Post by Amy Joyce
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
That's the way it would have happened in a Pollyanna world.
Post by Amy Joyce
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation?
Damn good question. Why would we expect the federal government to respect
state powers. It never has before.
Post by Amy Joyce
Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
There was nothing normal about the situation. The SS had one concern at
that point. Protecting the life of the new President. They were going to
do that by whatever means necessary. Prosecuting the crime was somebody
else's worry.
Post by Amy Joyce
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
Nobody threatened deadly force.
Post by Amy Joyce
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
ER doctors are not trained to determine if wounds are entrance or exit
wounds. They are trained to patch the wounds up. Forensic pathologists are
the ones whose job it is to determine the nature of the wounds suffered by
gun shot victims.
Post by Amy Joyce
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Most of them didn't look closely at the wound due to the fact they all had
other tasks to perform. What they didn't realize was the hole in the back
of the head was just the rear portion of a much larger blowout that
extended all along the upper right side of the head. By closing the skull
flaps over that large defect, Jackie concealed the true extent of the
wound from casual observers. What she couldn't close was the rear portion
of the blowout because that piece of skull had detached.
I don't recall any Parkland witnesses stating that they didn't look
closely at the wound or that they couldn't see it clearly. It sounds like
a false assumption to warrant the statements as invalid.

Regardless of any excuses that have been given for taking the body, it was
done. It is beyond suspicious when considering the differing testimonies
of the state of the deceased before and after it was moved. I wonder if
was Jackie that also wouldn't leave without the limo? Whose decision was
it to clean it and trample all over that evidence?
Anthony Marsh
2017-06-09 13:15:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
Pure mythology that guns were ever brandished. There was lots of yelling
and cursing but no violence. Eventually cooler heads prevailed and the SS
was eventually allowed to take the body under specific conditions, one of
which was that Admiral Burkey stay with the body until a legal autopsy was
performed.
Guns exposed, pointed at a person or not, in a heated exchange of "yelling
and cursing" is hugely intimidating and can be reasonably interpreted of a
threat.
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Nobody threatened to kill anyone. The SS was doing their job too, guarding
the life of the President to the best of their ability. Having lost one
President that day they weren't about to lose another. At that point they
had no idea who was behind the assassination. For all they knew it was an
attempt by the Soviets to decapitate the government. For that reason they
wanted to get LBJ out of Dallas and AF1 in the air ASAP. LBJ was not going
to leave Dallas without Jackie and Jackie was not going to leave without
the body so the only way to get the new President out of Dallas was to
take the body. That was done without any violence or threat of violence.
They didn't think they could keep the new president safe in Dallas from a
supposed lone nut assassin that was already in police custody? Their job
was to keep the current president safe, not make decisions regarding the
deceased body of the former president. If LBJ made the decision and gave
orders to have the body removed, OK lets hear about it. If he didn't,
then there it was no business of the SS to take the matter into their
hands. It's a law and a law for a reason. I don't see the SS doing that
without consulting superior orders. All that I'm hearing are poor excuses
to defend someone's decision to break that law (not saying they are
yours).
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
The federal government has been usurping state powers for as long as I've
been around and long before that. The federal government does that for one
simple reason. It can.
Post by Amy Joyce
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
That's the way it would have happened in a Pollyanna world.
Post by Amy Joyce
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation?
Damn good question. Why would we expect the federal government to respect
state powers. It never has before.
Post by Amy Joyce
Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
There was nothing normal about the situation. The SS had one concern at
that point. Protecting the life of the new President. They were going to
do that by whatever means necessary. Prosecuting the crime was somebody
else's worry.
Post by Amy Joyce
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
Nobody threatened deadly force.
Post by Amy Joyce
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
ER doctors are not trained to determine if wounds are entrance or exit
wounds. They are trained to patch the wounds up. Forensic pathologists are
the ones whose job it is to determine the nature of the wounds suffered by
gun shot victims.
Post by Amy Joyce
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Most of them didn't look closely at the wound due to the fact they all had
other tasks to perform. What they didn't realize was the hole in the back
of the head was just the rear portion of a much larger blowout that
extended all along the upper right side of the head. By closing the skull
flaps over that large defect, Jackie concealed the true extent of the
wound from casual observers. What she couldn't close was the rear portion
of the blowout because that piece of skull had detached.
I don't recall any Parkland witnesses stating that they didn't look
closely at the wound or that they couldn't see it clearly. It sounds like
a false assumption to warrant the statements as invalid.
Of course they did, but only a couple of them said they did look at the
head wound closely. The best one to know was nurse Bowron who prepared
the body for shipping.
Post by Amy Joyce
Regardless of any excuses that have been given for taking the body, it was
done. It is beyond suspicious when considering the differing testimonies
of the state of the deceased before and after it was moved. I wonder if
was Jackie that also wouldn't leave without the limo? Whose decision was
Jackie would not leave without her husband and LBJ would not leave
withouyt Jackie. LBJ wanted to take off before the nuclear bombs stared
falling.
Post by Amy Joyce
it to clean it and trample all over that evidence?
Amy Joyce
2017-06-10 12:38:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
Pure mythology that guns were ever brandished. There was lots of yelling
and cursing but no violence. Eventually cooler heads prevailed and the SS
was eventually allowed to take the body under specific conditions, one of
which was that Admiral Burkey stay with the body until a legal autopsy was
performed.
Guns exposed, pointed at a person or not, in a heated exchange of "yelling
and cursing" is hugely intimidating and can be reasonably interpreted of a
threat.
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Nobody threatened to kill anyone. The SS was doing their job too, guarding
the life of the President to the best of their ability. Having lost one
President that day they weren't about to lose another. At that point they
had no idea who was behind the assassination. For all they knew it was an
attempt by the Soviets to decapitate the government. For that reason they
wanted to get LBJ out of Dallas and AF1 in the air ASAP. LBJ was not going
to leave Dallas without Jackie and Jackie was not going to leave without
the body so the only way to get the new President out of Dallas was to
take the body. That was done without any violence or threat of violence.
They didn't think they could keep the new president safe in Dallas from a
supposed lone nut assassin that was already in police custody? Their job
was to keep the current president safe, not make decisions regarding the
deceased body of the former president. If LBJ made the decision and gave
orders to have the body removed, OK lets hear about it. If he didn't,
then there it was no business of the SS to take the matter into their
hands. It's a law and a law for a reason. I don't see the SS doing that
without consulting superior orders. All that I'm hearing are poor excuses
to defend someone's decision to break that law (not saying they are
yours).
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
The federal government has been usurping state powers for as long as I've
been around and long before that. The federal government does that for one
simple reason. It can.
Post by Amy Joyce
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
That's the way it would have happened in a Pollyanna world.
Post by Amy Joyce
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation?
Damn good question. Why would we expect the federal government to respect
state powers. It never has before.
Post by Amy Joyce
Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
There was nothing normal about the situation. The SS had one concern at
that point. Protecting the life of the new President. They were going to
do that by whatever means necessary. Prosecuting the crime was somebody
else's worry.
Post by Amy Joyce
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
Nobody threatened deadly force.
Post by Amy Joyce
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
ER doctors are not trained to determine if wounds are entrance or exit
wounds. They are trained to patch the wounds up. Forensic pathologists are
the ones whose job it is to determine the nature of the wounds suffered by
gun shot victims.
Post by Amy Joyce
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Most of them didn't look closely at the wound due to the fact they all had
other tasks to perform. What they didn't realize was the hole in the back
of the head was just the rear portion of a much larger blowout that
extended all along the upper right side of the head. By closing the skull
flaps over that large defect, Jackie concealed the true extent of the
wound from casual observers. What she couldn't close was the rear portion
of the blowout because that piece of skull had detached.
I don't recall any Parkland witnesses stating that they didn't look
closely at the wound or that they couldn't see it clearly. It sounds like
a false assumption to warrant the statements as invalid.
Of course they did, but only a couple of them said they did look at the
head wound closely. The best one to know was nurse Bowron who prepared
the body for shipping.
Post by Amy Joyce
Regardless of any excuses that have been given for taking the body, it was
done. It is beyond suspicious when considering the differing testimonies
of the state of the deceased before and after it was moved. I wonder if
was Jackie that also wouldn't leave without the limo? Whose decision was
Jackie would not leave without her husband and LBJ would not leave
withouyt Jackie. LBJ wanted to take off before the nuclear bombs stared
falling.
So you and they say, but I don't believe it.

If the concern was really the new president's safety, they would have left
immediately and without the body or less likely, without Jackie.

If Jackie wasn't going to leave Dallas without the body, I doubt she would
have left the hospital without it or would have even gone to the plane
without it.

As far as the SS taking the body due to the circumstances described, time
would have been crucial and every minute an exhausting worry - they'd of
been frantic to get back (with that relatively unimportant body). There
certainly wouldn't have had a 15 minute argument or discussion at the
hospital about it.

There is also the announcement of JFK's death to consider. LBJ claimed
that he wanted to be on his way before the press and the world knew...and
he said as such. If the concern was missiles, the announcement wouldn't
have been made until the plane was in the air.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Amy Joyce
it to clean it and trample all over that evidence?
Anthony Marsh
2017-06-11 13:17:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
Pure mythology that guns were ever brandished. There was lots of yelling
and cursing but no violence. Eventually cooler heads prevailed and the SS
was eventually allowed to take the body under specific conditions, one of
which was that Admiral Burkey stay with the body until a legal autopsy was
performed.
Guns exposed, pointed at a person or not, in a heated exchange of "yelling
and cursing" is hugely intimidating and can be reasonably interpreted of a
threat.
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Nobody threatened to kill anyone. The SS was doing their job too, guarding
the life of the President to the best of their ability. Having lost one
President that day they weren't about to lose another. At that point they
had no idea who was behind the assassination. For all they knew it was an
attempt by the Soviets to decapitate the government. For that reason they
wanted to get LBJ out of Dallas and AF1 in the air ASAP. LBJ was not going
to leave Dallas without Jackie and Jackie was not going to leave without
the body so the only way to get the new President out of Dallas was to
take the body. That was done without any violence or threat of violence.
They didn't think they could keep the new president safe in Dallas from a
supposed lone nut assassin that was already in police custody? Their job
was to keep the current president safe, not make decisions regarding the
deceased body of the former president. If LBJ made the decision and gave
orders to have the body removed, OK lets hear about it. If he didn't,
then there it was no business of the SS to take the matter into their
hands. It's a law and a law for a reason. I don't see the SS doing that
without consulting superior orders. All that I'm hearing are poor excuses
to defend someone's decision to break that law (not saying they are
yours).
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
The federal government has been usurping state powers for as long as I've
been around and long before that. The federal government does that for one
simple reason. It can.
Post by Amy Joyce
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
That's the way it would have happened in a Pollyanna world.
Post by Amy Joyce
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation?
Damn good question. Why would we expect the federal government to respect
state powers. It never has before.
Post by Amy Joyce
Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
There was nothing normal about the situation. The SS had one concern at
that point. Protecting the life of the new President. They were going to
do that by whatever means necessary. Prosecuting the crime was somebody
else's worry.
Post by Amy Joyce
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
Nobody threatened deadly force.
Post by Amy Joyce
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
ER doctors are not trained to determine if wounds are entrance or exit
wounds. They are trained to patch the wounds up. Forensic pathologists are
the ones whose job it is to determine the nature of the wounds suffered by
gun shot victims.
Post by Amy Joyce
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Most of them didn't look closely at the wound due to the fact they all had
other tasks to perform. What they didn't realize was the hole in the back
of the head was just the rear portion of a much larger blowout that
extended all along the upper right side of the head. By closing the skull
flaps over that large defect, Jackie concealed the true extent of the
wound from casual observers. What she couldn't close was the rear portion
of the blowout because that piece of skull had detached.
I don't recall any Parkland witnesses stating that they didn't look
closely at the wound or that they couldn't see it clearly. It sounds like
a false assumption to warrant the statements as invalid.
Of course they did, but only a couple of them said they did look at the
head wound closely. The best one to know was nurse Bowron who prepared
the body for shipping.
Post by Amy Joyce
Regardless of any excuses that have been given for taking the body, it was
done. It is beyond suspicious when considering the differing testimonies
of the state of the deceased before and after it was moved. I wonder if
was Jackie that also wouldn't leave without the limo? Whose decision was
Jackie would not leave without her husband and LBJ would not leave
withouyt Jackie. LBJ wanted to take off before the nuclear bombs stared
falling.
So you and they say, but I don't believe it.
If the concern was really the new president's safety, they would have left
immediately and without the body or less likely, without Jackie.
If Jackie wasn't going to leave Dallas without the body, I doubt she would
have left the hospital without it or would have even gone to the plane
without it.
As far as the SS taking the body due to the circumstances described, time
would have been crucial and every minute an exhausting worry - they'd of
been frantic to get back (with that relatively unimportant body). There
certainly wouldn't have had a 15 minute argument or discussion at the
hospital about it.
There is also the announcement of JFK's death to consider. LBJ claimed
that he wanted to be on his way before the press and the world knew...and
he said as such. If the concern was missiles, the announcement wouldn't
have been made until the plane was in the air.
Well, back in those days it took the Russian missile at least a half hour.
If just getting into the air without any proof that missiles had been
launched was the priority, he would not have wasted the time getting
sworn in before taking off.
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Amy Joyce
it to clean it and trample all over that evidence?
mainframetech
2017-06-11 23:25:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
Pure mythology that guns were ever brandished. There was lots of yelling
and cursing but no violence. Eventually cooler heads prevailed and the SS
was eventually allowed to take the body under specific conditions, one of
which was that Admiral Burkey stay with the body until a legal autopsy was
performed.
Guns exposed, pointed at a person or not, in a heated exchange of "yelling
and cursing" is hugely intimidating and can be reasonably interpreted of a
threat.
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Nobody threatened to kill anyone. The SS was doing their job too, guarding
the life of the President to the best of their ability. Having lost one
President that day they weren't about to lose another. At that point they
had no idea who was behind the assassination. For all they knew it was an
attempt by the Soviets to decapitate the government. For that reason they
wanted to get LBJ out of Dallas and AF1 in the air ASAP. LBJ was not going
to leave Dallas without Jackie and Jackie was not going to leave without
the body so the only way to get the new President out of Dallas was to
take the body. That was done without any violence or threat of violence.
They didn't think they could keep the new president safe in Dallas from a
supposed lone nut assassin that was already in police custody? Their job
was to keep the current president safe, not make decisions regarding the
deceased body of the former president. If LBJ made the decision and gave
orders to have the body removed, OK lets hear about it. If he didn't,
then there it was no business of the SS to take the matter into their
hands. It's a law and a law for a reason. I don't see the SS doing that
without consulting superior orders. All that I'm hearing are poor excuses
to defend someone's decision to break that law (not saying they are
yours).
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
The federal government has been usurping state powers for as long as I've
been around and long before that. The federal government does that for one
simple reason. It can.
Post by Amy Joyce
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
That's the way it would have happened in a Pollyanna world.
Post by Amy Joyce
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation?
Damn good question. Why would we expect the federal government to respect
state powers. It never has before.
Post by Amy Joyce
Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
There was nothing normal about the situation. The SS had one concern at
that point. Protecting the life of the new President. They were going to
do that by whatever means necessary. Prosecuting the crime was somebody
else's worry.
Post by Amy Joyce
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
Nobody threatened deadly force.
Post by Amy Joyce
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
ER doctors are not trained to determine if wounds are entrance or exit
wounds. They are trained to patch the wounds up. Forensic pathologists are
the ones whose job it is to determine the nature of the wounds suffered by
gun shot victims.
Post by Amy Joyce
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Most of them didn't look closely at the wound due to the fact they all had
other tasks to perform. What they didn't realize was the hole in the back
of the head was just the rear portion of a much larger blowout that
extended all along the upper right side of the head. By closing the skull
flaps over that large defect, Jackie concealed the true extent of the
wound from casual observers. What she couldn't close was the rear portion
of the blowout because that piece of skull had detached.
I don't recall any Parkland witnesses stating that they didn't look
closely at the wound or that they couldn't see it clearly. It sounds like
a false assumption to warrant the statements as invalid.
Of course they did, but only a couple of them said they did look at the
head wound closely. The best one to know was nurse Bowron who prepared
the body for shipping.
Nurse Audrey Bell also had a close look at the blowout at the BOH, when
Dr. Perry turned the heads for her to see.
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Amy Joyce
Regardless of any excuses that have been given for taking the body, it was
done. It is beyond suspicious when considering the differing testimonies
of the state of the deceased before and after it was moved. I wonder if
was Jackie that also wouldn't leave without the limo? Whose decision was
Jackie would not leave without her husband and LBJ would not leave
withouyt Jackie. LBJ wanted to take off before the nuclear bombs stared
falling.
So you and they say, but I don't believe it.
LBJ was part of the plotting to kill JFK, so if he wanted to take off,
it wasn't anything to do with bombs falling. He knew what was going on.
You'll remember that LBJ wanted Jackie next to him when he took the oath
of office on the AF1 plane. That caused most on the plane to come forward
to witness it. It left the body in the Bronze casket mostly alone back
near the galley where the emergency door was.
Post by Amy Joyce
If the concern was really the new president's safety, they would have left
immediately and without the body or less likely, without Jackie.
If Jackie wasn't going to leave Dallas without the body, I doubt she would
have left the hospital without it or would have even gone to the plane
without it.
She didn't have to travel that moment. They could leave a few people
with her and bring her along when she was more able. Same for the body,
which could have been autopsied by the legal pathologist in Dallas, and
then shipped on to Washington.
Post by Amy Joyce
As far as the SS taking the body due to the circumstances described, time
would have been crucial and every minute an exhausting worry - they'd of
been frantic to get back (with that relatively unimportant body). There
certainly wouldn't have had a 15 minute argument or discussion at the
hospital about it.
There is also the announcement of JFK's death to consider. LBJ claimed
that he wanted to be on his way before the press and the world knew...and
he said as such. If the concern was missiles, the announcement wouldn't
have been made until the plane was in the air.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Amy Joyce
it to clean it and trample all over that evidence?
Anthony Marsh
2017-06-12 16:42:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by mainframetech
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
Pure mythology that guns were ever brandished. There was lots of yelling
and cursing but no violence. Eventually cooler heads prevailed and the SS
was eventually allowed to take the body under specific conditions, one of
which was that Admiral Burkey stay with the body until a legal autopsy was
performed.
Guns exposed, pointed at a person or not, in a heated exchange of "yelling
and cursing" is hugely intimidating and can be reasonably interpreted of a
threat.
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Nobody threatened to kill anyone. The SS was doing their job too, guarding
the life of the President to the best of their ability. Having lost one
President that day they weren't about to lose another. At that point they
had no idea who was behind the assassination. For all they knew it was an
attempt by the Soviets to decapitate the government. For that reason they
wanted to get LBJ out of Dallas and AF1 in the air ASAP. LBJ was not going
to leave Dallas without Jackie and Jackie was not going to leave without
the body so the only way to get the new President out of Dallas was to
take the body. That was done without any violence or threat of violence.
They didn't think they could keep the new president safe in Dallas from a
supposed lone nut assassin that was already in police custody? Their job
was to keep the current president safe, not make decisions regarding the
deceased body of the former president. If LBJ made the decision and gave
orders to have the body removed, OK lets hear about it. If he didn't,
then there it was no business of the SS to take the matter into their
hands. It's a law and a law for a reason. I don't see the SS doing that
without consulting superior orders. All that I'm hearing are poor excuses
to defend someone's decision to break that law (not saying they are
yours).
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
The federal government has been usurping state powers for as long as I've
been around and long before that. The federal government does that for one
simple reason. It can.
Post by Amy Joyce
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
That's the way it would have happened in a Pollyanna world.
Post by Amy Joyce
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation?
Damn good question. Why would we expect the federal government to respect
state powers. It never has before.
Post by Amy Joyce
Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
There was nothing normal about the situation. The SS had one concern at
that point. Protecting the life of the new President. They were going to
do that by whatever means necessary. Prosecuting the crime was somebody
else's worry.
Post by Amy Joyce
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
Nobody threatened deadly force.
Post by Amy Joyce
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
ER doctors are not trained to determine if wounds are entrance or exit
wounds. They are trained to patch the wounds up. Forensic pathologists are
the ones whose job it is to determine the nature of the wounds suffered by
gun shot victims.
Post by Amy Joyce
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Most of them didn't look closely at the wound due to the fact they all had
other tasks to perform. What they didn't realize was the hole in the back
of the head was just the rear portion of a much larger blowout that
extended all along the upper right side of the head. By closing the skull
flaps over that large defect, Jackie concealed the true extent of the
wound from casual observers. What she couldn't close was the rear portion
of the blowout because that piece of skull had detached.
I don't recall any Parkland witnesses stating that they didn't look
closely at the wound or that they couldn't see it clearly. It sounds like
a false assumption to warrant the statements as invalid.
Of course they did, but only a couple of them said they did look at the
head wound closely. The best one to know was nurse Bowron who prepared
the body for shipping.
Nurse Audrey Bell also had a close look at the blowout at the BOH, when
Dr. Perry turned the heads for her to see.
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Amy Joyce
Regardless of any excuses that have been given for taking the body, it was
done. It is beyond suspicious when considering the differing testimonies
of the state of the deceased before and after it was moved. I wonder if
was Jackie that also wouldn't leave without the limo? Whose decision was
Jackie would not leave without her husband and LBJ would not leave
withouyt Jackie. LBJ wanted to take off before the nuclear bombs stared
falling.
So you and they say, but I don't believe it.
LBJ was part of the plotting to kill JFK, so if he wanted to take off,
it wasn't anything to do with bombs falling. He knew what was going on.
You'll remember that LBJ wanted Jackie next to him when he took the oath
of office on the AF1 plane. That caused most on the plane to come forward
to witness it. It left the body in the Bronze casket mostly alone back
near the galley where the emergency door was.
Post by Amy Joyce
If the concern was really the new president's safety, they would have left
immediately and without the body or less likely, without Jackie.
If Jackie wasn't going to leave Dallas without the body, I doubt she would
have left the hospital without it or would have even gone to the plane
without it.
She didn't have to travel that moment. They could leave a few people
Yes, she did.
Post by mainframetech
with her and bring her along when she was more able. Same for the body,
which could have been autopsied by the legal pathologist in Dallas, and
then shipped on to Washington.
False. LBJ was not going to leave without Jackie and Jackie was not
going to leave without her husband.
Post by mainframetech
Post by Amy Joyce
As far as the SS taking the body due to the circumstances described, time
would have been crucial and every minute an exhausting worry - they'd of
been frantic to get back (with that relatively unimportant body). There
certainly wouldn't have had a 15 minute argument or discussion at the
hospital about it.
There is also the announcement of JFK's death to consider. LBJ claimed
that he wanted to be on his way before the press and the world knew...and
he said as such. If the concern was missiles, the announcement wouldn't
have been made until the plane was in the air.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Amy Joyce
it to clean it and trample all over that evidence?
mainframetech
2017-06-09 13:41:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
Pure mythology that guns were ever brandished. There was lots of yelling
and cursing but no violence. Eventually cooler heads prevailed and the SS
was eventually allowed to take the body under specific conditions, one of
which was that Admiral Burkey stay with the body until a legal autopsy was
performed.
Guns exposed, pointed at a person or not, in a heated exchange of "yelling
and cursing" is hugely intimidating and can be reasonably interpreted of a
threat.
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Nobody threatened to kill anyone. The SS was doing their job too, guarding
the life of the President to the best of their ability. Having lost one
President that day they weren't about to lose another. At that point they
had no idea who was behind the assassination. For all they knew it was an
attempt by the Soviets to decapitate the government. For that reason they
wanted to get LBJ out of Dallas and AF1 in the air ASAP. LBJ was not going
to leave Dallas without Jackie and Jackie was not going to leave without
the body so the only way to get the new President out of Dallas was to
take the body. That was done without any violence or threat of violence.
They didn't think they could keep the new president safe in Dallas from a
supposed lone nut assassin that was already in police custody? Their job
was to keep the current president safe, not make decisions regarding the
deceased body of the former president. If LBJ made the decision and gave
orders to have the body removed, OK lets hear about it. If he didn't,
then there it was no business of the SS to take the matter into their
hands. It's a law and a law for a reason. I don't see the SS doing that
without consulting superior orders. All that I'm hearing are poor excuses
to defend someone's decision to break that law (not saying they are
yours).
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
The federal government has been usurping state powers for as long as I've
been around and long before that. The federal government does that for one
simple reason. It can.
Post by Amy Joyce
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
That's the way it would have happened in a Pollyanna world.
Post by Amy Joyce
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation?
Damn good question. Why would we expect the federal government to respect
state powers. It never has before.
Post by Amy Joyce
Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
There was nothing normal about the situation. The SS had one concern at
that point. Protecting the life of the new President. They were going to
do that by whatever means necessary. Prosecuting the crime was somebody
else's worry.
Post by Amy Joyce
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
Nobody threatened deadly force.
Post by Amy Joyce
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
ER doctors are not trained to determine if wounds are entrance or exit
wounds. They are trained to patch the wounds up. Forensic pathologists are
the ones whose job it is to determine the nature of the wounds suffered by
gun shot victims.
Post by Amy Joyce
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Most of them didn't look closely at the wound due to the fact they all had
other tasks to perform. What they didn't realize was the hole in the back
of the head was just the rear portion of a much larger blowout that
extended all along the upper right side of the head. By closing the skull
flaps over that large defect, Jackie concealed the true extent of the
wound from casual observers. What she couldn't close was the rear portion
of the blowout because that piece of skull had detached.
I don't recall any Parkland witnesses stating that they didn't look
closely at the wound or that they couldn't see it clearly. It sounds like
a false assumption to warrant the statements as invalid.
Regardless of any excuses that have been given for taking the body, it was
done. It is beyond suspicious when considering the differing testimonies
of the state of the deceased before and after it was moved. I wonder if
was Jackie that also wouldn't leave without the limo? Whose decision was
it to clean it and trample all over that evidence?
Mainly the Secret Service agents that were hanging around the Parkland
ER entrance. And after some witnesses saw a bullet hole in the FRONT
windshield, an SS agent got in the limo and drove it away. 6 witnesses
saw the bullet hole in the windshield, and the LNs will fight like hell to
try to cover that up, because it says there was another shooter.
Remember that it was critical to maintain the 'lone nut' scenario.

We have to face it that some of the people in the case were complicit
in the plotting to kill JFK. They were willing to break the law each for
their own reasons. Some were FBI, some were SS and some were Mafia (most
of the shooters were Mafia). And of course, we can't forget LBJ and
Hoover, both of whom I believe were in on it. Each for their own reasons.

Please let me know if any questions.

Chris
bigdog
2017-06-10 02:28:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by mainframetech
Post by Amy Joyce
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
Pure mythology that guns were ever brandished. There was lots of yelling
and cursing but no violence. Eventually cooler heads prevailed and the SS
was eventually allowed to take the body under specific conditions, one of
which was that Admiral Burkey stay with the body until a legal autopsy was
performed.
Guns exposed, pointed at a person or not, in a heated exchange of "yelling
and cursing" is hugely intimidating and can be reasonably interpreted of a
threat.
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Nobody threatened to kill anyone. The SS was doing their job too, guarding
the life of the President to the best of their ability. Having lost one
President that day they weren't about to lose another. At that point they
had no idea who was behind the assassination. For all they knew it was an
attempt by the Soviets to decapitate the government. For that reason they
wanted to get LBJ out of Dallas and AF1 in the air ASAP. LBJ was not going
to leave Dallas without Jackie and Jackie was not going to leave without
the body so the only way to get the new President out of Dallas was to
take the body. That was done without any violence or threat of violence.
They didn't think they could keep the new president safe in Dallas from a
supposed lone nut assassin that was already in police custody? Their job
was to keep the current president safe, not make decisions regarding the
deceased body of the former president. If LBJ made the decision and gave
orders to have the body removed, OK lets hear about it. If he didn't,
then there it was no business of the SS to take the matter into their
hands. It's a law and a law for a reason. I don't see the SS doing that
without consulting superior orders. All that I'm hearing are poor excuses
to defend someone's decision to break that law (not saying they are
yours).
Post by bigdog
Post by Amy Joyce
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
The federal government has been usurping state powers for as long as I've
been around and long before that. The federal government does that for one
simple reason. It can.
Post by Amy Joyce
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
That's the way it would have happened in a Pollyanna world.
Post by Amy Joyce
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation?
Damn good question. Why would we expect the federal government to respect
state powers. It never has before.
Post by Amy Joyce
Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
There was nothing normal about the situation. The SS had one concern at
that point. Protecting the life of the new President. They were going to
do that by whatever means necessary. Prosecuting the crime was somebody
else's worry.
Post by Amy Joyce
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
Nobody threatened deadly force.
Post by Amy Joyce
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
ER doctors are not trained to determine if wounds are entrance or exit
wounds. They are trained to patch the wounds up. Forensic pathologists are
the ones whose job it is to determine the nature of the wounds suffered by
gun shot victims.
Post by Amy Joyce
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Most of them didn't look closely at the wound due to the fact they all had
other tasks to perform. What they didn't realize was the hole in the back
of the head was just the rear portion of a much larger blowout that
extended all along the upper right side of the head. By closing the skull
flaps over that large defect, Jackie concealed the true extent of the
wound from casual observers. What she couldn't close was the rear portion
of the blowout because that piece of skull had detached.
I don't recall any Parkland witnesses stating that they didn't look
closely at the wound or that they couldn't see it clearly. It sounds like
a false assumption to warrant the statements as invalid.
Regardless of any excuses that have been given for taking the body, it was
done. It is beyond suspicious when considering the differing testimonies
of the state of the deceased before and after it was moved. I wonder if
was Jackie that also wouldn't leave without the limo? Whose decision was
it to clean it and trample all over that evidence?
Mainly the Secret Service agents that were hanging around the Parkland
ER entrance. And after some witnesses saw a bullet hole in the FRONT
windshield, an SS agent got in the limo and drove it away. 6 witnesses
saw the bullet hole in the windshield, and the LNs will fight like hell to
try to cover that up, because it says there was another shooter.
Remember that it was critical to maintain the 'lone nut' scenario.
We have to face it that some of the people in the case were complicit
in the plotting to kill JFK. They were willing to break the law each for
their own reasons. Some were FBI, some were SS and some were Mafia (most
of the shooters were Mafia). And of course, we can't forget LBJ and
Hoover, both of whom I believe were in on it. Each for their own reasons.
What you believe has little resemblance to reality.
Anthony Marsh
2017-06-07 21:14:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation? Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Nope. No one said a large hole in the back of the head. The nurse packed
gauze in the hole and even you can see that the gauze is in the TOP of
the head extending to the front.

Loading Image...

Top left autopsy photo.


FYI, a large hole in the back of the head does not ipso facto prove
where the bullet came from.
Amy Joyce
2017-06-08 19:24:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president’s life.
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
finished.”
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation? Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Here is the link: https://www.fff.org/2013/10/14/the-first-step-in-the-jfk-cover-up/

THE FIRST STEP IN THE JFK COVER-UP
by Jacob G. Hornberger
October 14, 2013
Jean Davison
2017-06-11 17:44:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Amy Joyce
Why?
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
Washington.
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn???t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
conducted.
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy???s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
snips
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
president???s life.
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don???t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, ???We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we???ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We???ll take the body once you have
finished.???
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation? Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
That???s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
snips
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy???s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
the front."
Here is the link: https://www.fff.org/2013/10/14/the-first-sftep-in-the-jfk-cover-up/
THE FIRST STEP IN THE JFK COVER-UP
by Jacob G. Hornberger
October 14, 2013
It's not a good idea to rely on secondary sources. Hornberger
indicates that removing the body was the Secret Service's idea. That's
untrue. President Kennedy's principal aide Kenneth O'Donnell testified
that it was his decision:

"... I then went back to Mrs. Kennedy, who was in a very understandably
distraught condition. It was my opinion--I tried to in some way imply
that she might leave and come with us, at least to get her out of that
room. She was covered with blood.
[....]
Mr. SPECTER. What was her response to you?
Mr. O'DONNELL. Her response to me was she would not leave her husband's
body. At that point, I realized that she would not. The doctor had
continually attempted to get her to take some form of sedation. And she
had consistently refused, and told me she would not take anything, that
she was going to stay with her husband.
I realized that she was going to stay with her husband no matter what
anybody did, and there was no possible way of in any way getting her to
leave. And so, therefore, the only alternative I could see was that we
move the President. It is an assumption I probably would have arrived at
anyway, but I arrived at it in this manner.
So I went out and got hold of Dr. Burkley and General McHugh, and one
of the agents, and Andy Berger, as I recall, and told them to get a
casket, to bring it back, and Dr. Burkley would have the doctors prepare
the body for removal, and that we would proceed to the airport and go to
Washington.
This was done very rapidly, as I recollect. It seems to me it wasn't
more than half an hour that they arrived with the casket. I remember
just before they arrived I got Dave Powers and said there was a little
room in the back that we ought to just take Mrs. Kennedy under some
subterfuge, and talk to her in the room while we brought the casket in,
because I thought that might be the final blow. And we did, and--but she
knew what was going on. She came out and said, "No, I want to watch it
all." And she stood in the doorway, and thanked us for our attempt at
being compassionate.
And then they took it in, and put the body in the casket.
We were then all prepared to go. The agents told me the ambulance was
ready, and they were prepared to move.
We--the casket was brought out about halfway, and a gentleman arrived
who said that we would not be allowed to remove the body from the
hospital until the necessary papers had been signed.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you know who he was?
Mr. O'DONNELL. I don't recollect who he was. I think he was---maybe from
the coroner's office. My assumption is he would be.
But he took this position. We asked--I don't recollect who transmitted
the message that they speed this up as much as possible, and give us
some idea how long it took to accomplish this. And they went out into
this other little room where there were some telephones, and proceeded
to call whoever it was necessary to call to get this permission.
We waited about 10 or 15 minutes, and Dr. Burkley and General McHugh
were in the room, and Mr. O'Brien at some time. I went out again and
asked them if they had an answer, and nobody seemed to be able to answer
the question as to how long it might take, and whether it was a week or
an hour.
So I was getting more concerned about Mrs. Kennedy's state all the
time although she appeared composed, as she had from the beginning.
Then a gentleman did arrive who has later been identified for me as a
Judge Brown, who was on the telephone calling someone. It had been my
assumption that upon his arrival that he had the power to permit us to
depart. Dr. Burkley was talking to him in a very agitated manner. And
the gentleman was very calm and cool and collected. If my recollection
is clear, he said something to the effect that as of now this was just a
homicide case, and there were certain things that had to be carried out,
one of which I interpreted as an autopsy. [....]
My recollection is it was indicated to us that the President is dead,
the hospital has to perform certain functions, and the law must be met,
no matter who it is, at this moment. In my own mind, when they said
autopsy, I realized we were talking not about hours, but perhaps even
days, which was an impossible situation for Mrs. Kennedy.
I talked to Dr. Burkley, and had him suggest to them that they could
have a doctor come with us, he could accompany the body at all times,
and that we would bring him immediately to the Naval Hospital, and that
they could perform whatever necessary chores, and there would be no
separation physically from the hospital and the performance of their
autopsy.
They refused to consider this.... " END QUOTE

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/odonnell.htm


Similar testimony from witness Larry O'Brien:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/obrien.htm

Dr. Burkley's statement to the WC says the same thing, that the body was
moved because Jackie refused to leave without it (left side of this page):

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1317#relPageId=125&tab=page


Jean
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