Post by Amy Joyce Post by mainframetech Post by Amy Joyce
"After President Kennedy was declared dead by physicians at Parkland, he
was placed into a casket. A team of Secret Service agents then began
removing the casket from Parkland with the intent of taking it to Love
Field, where President Johnson was waiting for it to take it back to
There was one big problem, however. Texas law required an autopsy of the
body to be conducted by an official medical examiner. Therefore, the
Dallas medical examiner, Dr. Earl Rose, informed the Secret Service team
of Texas law and advised them that the body wasn’t going anywhere
until the autopsy was conducted.
The Secret Service team informed Rose that he was not going to conduct an
autopsy and that they were going to take the body out of the hospital.
Rose stood in the way and made it clear that he did not intend to permit
the body to be removed from the hospital without the autopsy having been
At that point, the Secret Service agents opened their suit jackets and
brandished their guns. Amidst a tremendous amount of screaming, yelling,
and cussing, the Secret Service team began shoving people as they forced
their way out of the hospital with casket.
The casket was then rushed to Love Field, where people on Air Force One,
the plane that LBJ was now traveling on, had removed seats in the back of
the plane to make room for the casket.
After Air Force One landed at Andrews Air Force Base, Kennedy’s
body was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the U.S. military
conducted an autopsy."
"At Parkland, no one in that hospital, including Dr. Rose, was breaking
any law. On the contrary, they were enforcing the law. Yet Secret Service
agents were threatening to kill them if they obstructed their removal of
the body from Parkland. Imagine that: federal agents were threatening to
kill people who worked at a hospital that had just tried to save the
Do the actions of the Secret Service make any sense when it comes to the
issue of normality? Don’t we ordinarily expect federal
law-enforcement agents to cooperate with state law-enforcement agents in
the investigation and prosecution of a crime?
What everyone would have expected to have happened was this: Dr. Rose
announces that he has to conduct an autopsy under Texas law. Secret
Service agents respond, “We understand, Dr. Rose. You do your job
and we’ll even help secure the premises so that you can do your
job undisturbed. We’ll take the body once you have
Why would we expect that sort of cooperation? Because law-enforcement
officials know that an autopsy in a homicide case is critically important
to the later criminal prosecution of whoever is charged with the crime.
You normally expect federal and state law enforcement agents to work
together to ensure that proper procedures are followed in order to more
effectively prosecute the accused at trial.
That’s not what happened here. Instead, federal officials were
threatening the use of deadly force to prevent Texas officials from doing
their job, a job that state law required."
"Immediately after the president was declared dead, there was a press
conference at Parkland in which two of the treating physicians, Dr.
Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark, gave a report and answered questions. At
that press conference, they stated that the wound in the front of
Kennedy’s neck was an entry wound, which would mean that the shot
had come from the front.
Moreover, the Parkland doctors and nurses and others said that Kennedy had
a large hole in the back of his head, indicating an exit wound. An exit
wound in the back of the head would obviously mean the shot had come from
Of course, the stealing of the body and the limousine were necessary. If
the body were examined at Dallas by Dr. Rose, there would be clear indications
that JFK was shot by more than one shooter and from more than one
location, pointing to conspiracy. That could not be allowed to happen. The
'lone nut' scenario must be preserved at all costs, and at a military hospital
pathologists could be ordered to give a fake autopsy Report if given a
good enough reason to follow those orders. The possibility of starting WW3
is one excuse that was used during the JFK crisis, particularly by LBJ.
Later in the case, it was shown that the prosectors (pathologists) did
indeed make out a false Autopsy Report.
Chris, again I don't see how that can be ignored or casually waved off.
IMO, no other person(s) would have ever gotten away with removing the body
from a hospital before the autopsy (breaking the law), and taking it out
of state to perform an autopsy elsewhere (breaking the law). Knowing that
this occurred and discovering that there were large discrepancies between
witnesses as to the condition of the body (wounds) tells me that the
reason the body was taken elsewhere was to manipulate either the body or
falsify "official" reports pertaining to it. There is no way I can trust
Amy, BOTH were what happened, and you were sharp to realize those were
the possibilities. As we go through the various questions in the case,
I'll show you those points as well with the backup from the files.
Post by Amy Joyce
From what I understand the reason the body was taken was because Jackie
wouldn't leave without it, which sounds like a pathetic excuse. They could
have easily decided to stay in Dallas for a few hours until the autopsy
was finished and then taken the body afterward... that is if the main
concern was actually to not leaving without Jackie. They could have also
requested that the other ME/doctor(s) be brought to the body, instead of
the other way around. I doubt that there would have been complaint in
having specific doctors brought TO DALLAS to either perform, assist, or
observe. Another scenario was to leave Jackie with the body (and whomever
else to keep her safe, etc), while they left to attend to swear in the new
president - a task that didn't require Jackie or the body. There wasn't no
valid reason to take the body other than because someone else wanted the
body out of Dallas (quickly - before the autopsy could was performed
there). I'd forgotten about the limo. So there wasn't a separate
investigation as to why the body and limo were taken away from the scene
and investigators? It's shameful that citizens are expected to believe
that it's quite OK to remove pertinent evidence from the city, county, and
state of the crime - AWAY from primary investigators. Anyone else in the
country that did such things would have the four remaining fingers of the
investigating pointing at them.
The plotters knew that there was emotional reasons they could get away
with stealing the body and the limo. For those SS agents that weren't in
on the plot, they would have thought that idea that Jackie had to be
gotten back to Washington, their 'home'. Among my suspects are Kellerman,
who was instrumental in the body stealing episode.
Next in the sequence of the killing was the body being altered to look
more like it had been shot from above and behind. Here are the elements
of that question:
Once the body was ion the air with the limousine, there was much radio
communication from the SS agents and the home base for the Secret Service.
Here are some of the bits of radio chat from the AF1 plane to the ground
while the plane was in the air from Dallas to Washington:
"- Arrangements have been made for a helicopter for Bethesda Naval Medical Center. Over.
- Standby, Jerry, we’re going to have to get Berkley here.
- Okay. Go ahead.
- Air Force One, Andrews. Duplex is on. Duplex is on the air.
- Duplex is on. This is Dr. Burkley. What arrangements have been made with regard to the reception of the President?
- The….everybody aboard Air Force One, everyone aboard Air Force One, with the exception of the body, will be choppered into the South Ground. The body will be choppered to the Naval Medical Center at Bethesda. Over.
- The body will be choppered or go by ambulance to the Navy Medical Center?
- Will be choppered, will be choppered."
They supposedly decided to also use a motorcade to move the body in an
ambulance to Bethesda hospital. But it appears from circumstances that
the helicopter was used to move the body to Bethesda much earlier than the
ambulance in the motorcade, which had the family and the SS and FBI agents
There was a 'general Wehle' and his aide Richard Lipsey, whose job it
was to fix funeral and other military functions in the Washington area.
Here's Lipsey being interviewed:
"We met the body at Andrews Airforce Base. We had everything organized by
that afternoon. We had Marines organized with their little Honor Guard. We
had the men from Ft. Meyer, the third old [?] guard, the guys like at
Humphry's funeral, the ceremonial guard that watched the casket. The
ceremonial troop in Washington had been arranged to meet the body at
Andrews. Put it in a hearse. We had a decoy hearse because we knew there
was a mob waiting at Bethesda Naval Hospital. So we got in a couple of
these helicopters with our honor guard when they left and flew over to the
hospital to get there before they did. And when they came in, one of the
hearses went right up to the front door. All of the crowd, of course,
rushed over there. The one with the body in it went around to the back
where the morgue was and we unloaded it. We met them in the back and
unloaded it right there to avoid the news media and the crowd and
Q: The body was brought in the rear?
LIPSEY: The body was brought in the back door, backed right up to the
loading ramp right immediately next to the morgue. And we unloaded it
there and then Jackie Kennedy and her family and everybody that was, you
know, flown to Washington and come back with the body, they came in the
hospital the front way and went upstairs to the Presidential Suite at the
This is the HSCA interview.
What happened, which I will detail with backup, is that the body was
helicoptered to Bethesda and loaded in the back door of the morgue. The
regular motorcade with the 'decoy' casket and ambulance went along the
road and got to the hospital main entrance later.
At some point not defined, probably on the AF1 plane, the body was
moved into a military SHIPPING casket, which is very plain and usually
grey, like this:Loading Image...
Although it is not sure how they got the body into the shipping casket,
probably while on the plane, there is no doubt that the body of JFK came
out of the shipping casket at the Bethesda morgue at 6:35pm. The excuse
for doing that was that the press were going to follow the casket and that
would mean that Jackie would have to put up with them. The real reason
(in my belief) was to get the body into a different casket apart from the
family and the agents and get it to Bethesda earlier so that work could be
done on the body without all the family and agents around.
I believe that one or more agents while on the AF1 plane helped to get
the body moved into the SHIPPING casket from the Bronze casket, and they
would not speak of it, because the public would not be happy that they
were playing musical caskets with the body of the POTUS. There was an
emergency exit right there at the rear of the AF1 plane in the galley
area, where the casket could be loaded into the lane, and removed and
which would look like any servicing module for the galley. I believe the
SHIPPING casket was loaded out of the plane by a forklift on the far side
of the plane which would not be noticed, and the casket could then be put
on a waiting helicopter.
At 6:35pm a Marine Sergeant recorded in his after action report that
the casket arrived at 1835 (6:35pm):Loading Image...
The casket was a Bronze ceremonial casket, with a broken handle. It
came down from the plane in a scissors lift and was put in an ambulance,
and the family and agents went along with it.
In the meantime, the military SHIPPING casket was moved into the
morgue where Dr. Humes and Boswell were waiting impatiently. A corpsman
was in charge of a small detail that helped bring in the casket:
"He said the driver and the "person riding shotgun" (i.e., front seat
passenger) were wearing OR (operating room) smocks. Four or five men in
blue suits, whom he assumed were Federal agents, exited the back of the
hearse, and supervised and observed while the Navy sailors (approximately
7 or 8 people) working for him offloaded the casket which was in the
hearse. He said it was a simple, gray shipping casket such as he
frequently saw used later in the Vietnam war."
see Page 3
One of the men that helped bring the body in the SHIPPING casket into
the morgue was Edward Reed, X-ray Technician. He said in ARRB sworn
"Q: And what did you observe next?
A: And next, We were instructed to -
Someone opened the casket. I forget who exactly.
It was an enlisted man.
Q: Is this in the hallway?
A: Yes. Let me - No, I’m sorry. We did
not open it in the hallway. We carried it into the
Q: Did you, yourself, help carry it?
A: Yes, I did."
"Q: After you -You took the casket into the
morgue; is that correct?
A: That’s correct.
Q: What did you do when it arrived in the
A: Someone opened it up.
We all stood back. Someone opened it up,
and we were allowed to look into the casket. From
our vantage point, we were able to see into the
Q: Was it - was the casket on the floor?
A: Yes, it was.
Q: Do you recall now who opened the casket?
A: No, I don’t.
Q: After the casket was opened, what did you
A: I was able to look in. and I saw President
Kennedy without - completely nude in a plastic
They got right to work first searching for bullets, which was mentioned
in the sworn testimony of the X-ray Technicians, who helped them. They
removed any they found and searched the body for all that might be there.
There is a messy tracheotomy in the throat that normally was neat and
small a cut to allow a tube to go there for air. When you see the photos
of the body after it arrived at Bethesda, the throat wound is large and
messy, and I believe that is from the digging around to find and remove
the bullet there.
While this clandestine work was going on, there were a few men in the
gallery watching them do this work. This was hours BEFORE the scheduled
autopsy, yet some folks try to say it was part of the autopsy. It was
not. Humes and Boswell tried to cover up that they had done this
clandestine work later, so it was not scheduled.
As he watched the work on the body going on, Edward watched from the
gallery, which was empty at this time:
"Q: What was the first incision?
A: The cranium.The scalp, right here.
Q: And can you describe how that procedure -
A: Commander Humes made an incision. After
we brought all the X-rays back, we were all allowed
to sit up in the podium and observe.
And Commander Humes made an incision -
that I could see from my vantage point - an
incision in the forehead, and brought back the
A: Like this.
Q: And you were making a line first across
the top of your forehead. roughly along the
A: With a scalpel.
Q: - and then pulling the scalp back.
A: That’s correct. Just like this.
Q: What else did you observe from where you
were with regard to any incisions or operations on
A: Well, after about 20 minutes, Commander
Humes took out a saw, and started to cut the
forehead with the bone - with the saw. Mechanical
saw. Circular, small, mechanical
almost like a cast saw, but it’s made -
A: - specifically for bone."
Humes realized after a while that he had an audience and he kicked them
out of the morgue and finished his work on the body. By comparing the
body and wounds from Parkland to Bethesda after the clandestine work Humes
did, it was determine that the head wound at the BOH was expanded around
the right side of the head, and some on the top. There seems to have been
also a flap of skull that was cut partly out that swung out in front of
the right ear. This may have been to mimic an exit wound from a BOH entry
Amy, if you have questions about this part of the case, let me know.
This part is usually hard to explain and to grasp.