Discussion:
The LHO plan was simple
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claviger
2018-04-20 02:30:54 UTC
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CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.

Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.

The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?
mainframetech
2018-04-21 04:17:35 UTC
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Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?
Looks like you're writing a fiction novel.

Chris
claviger
2018-04-22 00:04:32 UTC
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Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?
Looks like you're writing a fiction novel.
Chris
That is your approach to this historic case, not mine. The fundamental
failure of Federal agencies involved in this important parade was lack of
cooperation and coordination with each other, and the local authorities.
Steve M. Galbraith
2018-04-22 00:46:46 UTC
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Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?
Looks like you're writing a fiction novel.
Chris
Give him a break: he wasn't using his forehead/temple when he wrote it.
Caeruleo
2018-04-25 01:33:21 UTC
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Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?
Looks like you're writing a fiction novel.
Looks like you're ignoring the obvious, as you have done so very, very,
very many times before. ;-)
mainframetech
2018-04-26 00:57:49 UTC
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Post by Caeruleo
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?
Looks like you're writing a fiction novel.
Looks like you're ignoring the obvious, as you have done so very, very,
very many times before. ;-)
Looks like you're still full of OPINIONS. Which count for nothing when
debating or arguing.

Chris
Caeruleo
2018-05-03 00:37:56 UTC
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Post by mainframetech
Post by Caeruleo
Looks like you're ignoring the obvious, as you have done so very, very,
very many times before. ;-)
Looks like you're still full of OPINIONS.
Well, that's certainly the pot calling the kettle black, since you are one
of the most opinionated humans I've ever encountered in my life, on the
internet or off of it. ;-)
Anthony Marsh
2018-04-26 14:39:10 UTC
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Post by Caeruleo
Post by mainframetech
Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?
Looks like you're writing a fiction novel.
Looks like you're ignoring the obvious, as you have done so very, very,
very many times before. ;-)
Looks like our government ignored the obvious.
Anthony Marsh
2018-04-21 20:08:30 UTC
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Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
What do you mean without anyone noticing? You think you have 2 witness
to him bringing in the bag.
Post by claviger
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
Oh, OK, and you always look in your friend's bags? How rude.
Post by claviger
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
It's not about decorating. It's about room darkening. I already told you
that I had the same problem and had to buy room darkening curtains for my
room in a rooming hous. And I was just a low wage blue collat worker. Not
all of can be millionaires living in mansions.
Post by claviger
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
I did not have Venetian blinds.
Post by claviger
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
No, it's none of his business.
Post by claviger
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
Didn't anyone think it was a little weird for 2 or 3 other men to bring in
rifles to show up on the week that The President was due to visit Dallas?
And why could an assassin only shoot in Dealey Plaza? What about the
airport or San Antonio?
Post by claviger
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
What possible threat? You mean General Walker or the JBS or the KKK or any
of the hundreds of people who had threatened the President? They didn't
have the man power to watch every kook.
Post by claviger
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
They did. The police were stationed on the overpasses and at
intersections.
Post by claviger
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
Feds? CIA did not share information. FBI could not find Oswald.
Post by claviger
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?
And who would tell them that?
bigdog
2018-04-22 00:12:49 UTC
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Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?
It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done. Is there any
reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to Oswald's curtain
rods. What reason would he have to suspect there was more to it than that.
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route. Of all the people they were keeping tabs on
in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, what would have made Oswald stand out more
than any of the others prior to 11/22/63.
claviger
2018-04-23 02:00:12 UTC
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Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?
It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done.
Hindsight is how we learn from our mistakes.
Post by bigdog
Is there any reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to
Oswald's curtain rods. What reason would he have to suspect there
was more to it than that.
He only knew LHO a short time and this guy does something peculiar the
same week the President is coming for a visit. Most people I know would
ask me what I had in the bag if they gave me a ride to work. BWF did that
too and the answer was curtain rods. My friends would ask why so many if
the bag seems heavy. His sister Linnie Mae noticed the large bag was
heavy when she saw LHO walking up to the house. When LHO got out of the
car at the parking lot BWF watched him carry the bag in an odd way as if
it was heavy.

At that point he should tell his boss about it to protect himself if LHO
is a thief or worse. Some companies don't allow employees to bring any
bags or tools to work without permission. This policy prevents pilfering
of tools or inventory, like books in this case. As a result no bags in or
out without inspection is a work rule. Even lunch boxes must be open when
leaving work. Employees providing a ride don't want to be accused of
being part of a company theft situation and lose their job too.

Another question is did BWF ever give LHO a ride to the Sportsdrome a
short distance from Irving? As you know this is a hot topic of debate on
this forum. It would be normal behavior for two young guys with milsurp
rifles to take advantage of this new firing range just to check it out. If
so this is another reason for BWF to be curious about a large paper bag he
is transporting to his workplace overlooking the downtown parade route for
the much publicized Presidential visit. As it turned out he was indeed a
suspect in this ambush. He could've avoided that problem by notifying his
boss about the curious paper bag that morning.

All this assuming BWF is totally innocent of any wrongdoing. At least one
CT website claims Frazier, Linnie Mae and Bill Randle were CIA plants with
Ruth Paine to be handlers for Marina and LHO. One might even notice the
Sportsdrome opened the end of September just in time for LHO returning
from Mexico to start practicing for the ambush. Another CT theory might
be the Sportsdrome was a CIA front and BWF was supposed to make sure LHO
practiced every weekend.
Post by bigdog
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route.
I thought that was part of their job. They had access to information
Dallas authorities did not have. They could have shared info and used the
Police and Deputies to check out where names on the list lived and worked.
LHO should have popped up on that list and would have been easy for
Deputies to walk across the street and keep an eye on him during the
parade.
Post by bigdog
Of all the people they were keeping tabs on in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area,
what would have made Oswald stand out more than any of the others
prior to 11/22/63.
He was a former military defector to the USSR and returned to the Dallas
area. The DPD was aware he was handing out Fair Play For Cuba flyers in
downtown Dallas. They should have checked him out and reported to the FBI
his activities, where he lived, and where he worked. At that point both
the DPD and FBI know he works on the parade route. The DPD could then
request the Sheriff have Deputies keep him under surveillance during the
parade. Another reason, an assassination attempt by a rifle shot at a
local politician had already happened in the Dallas area. The sniper was
still on the loose. As it turns out the same sniper shot the President.
bigdog
2018-04-24 01:00:01 UTC
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Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?
It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done.
Hindsight is how we learn from our mistakes.
Post by bigdog
Is there any reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to
Oswald's curtain rods. What reason would he have to suspect there
was more to it than that.
He only knew LHO a short time and this guy does something peculiar the
same week the President is coming for a visit. Most people I know would
ask me what I had in the bag if they gave me a ride to work. BWF did that
too and the answer was curtain rods. My friends would ask why so many if
the bag seems heavy. His sister Linnie Mae noticed the large bag was
heavy when she saw LHO walking up to the house. When LHO got out of the
car at the parking lot BWF watched him carry the bag in an odd way as if
it was heavy.
At that point he should tell his boss about it to protect himself if LHO
is a thief or worse. Some companies don't allow employees to bring any
bags or tools to work without permission. This policy prevents pilfering
of tools or inventory, like books in this case. As a result no bags in or
out without inspection is a work rule. Even lunch boxes must be open when
leaving work. Employees providing a ride don't want to be accused of
being part of a company theft situation and lose their job too.
Another question is did BWF ever give LHO a ride to the Sportsdrome a
short distance from Irving? As you know this is a hot topic of debate on
this forum. It would be normal behavior for two young guys with milsurp
rifles to take advantage of this new firing range just to check it out. If
so this is another reason for BWF to be curious about a large paper bag he
is transporting to his workplace overlooking the downtown parade route for
the much publicized Presidential visit. As it turned out he was indeed a
suspect in this ambush. He could've avoided that problem by notifying his
boss about the curious paper bag that morning.
All this assuming BWF is totally innocent of any wrongdoing. At least one
CT website claims Frazier, Linnie Mae and Bill Randle were CIA plants with
Ruth Paine to be handlers for Marina and LHO. One might even notice the
Sportsdrome opened the end of September just in time for LHO returning
from Mexico to start practicing for the ambush. Another CT theory might
be the Sportsdrome was a CIA front and BWF was supposed to make sure LHO
practiced every weekend.
Post by bigdog
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route.
I thought that was part of their job. They had access to information
Dallas authorities did not have. They could have shared info and used the
Police and Deputies to check out where names on the list lived and worked.
LHO should have popped up on that list and would have been easy for
Deputies to walk across the street and keep an eye on him during the
parade.
20/20 hindsight.
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Of all the people they were keeping tabs on in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area,
what would have made Oswald stand out more than any of the others
prior to 11/22/63.
He was a former military defector to the USSR and returned to the Dallas
area. The DPD was aware he was handing out Fair Play For Cuba flyers in
downtown Dallas. They should have checked him out and reported to the FBI
his activities, where he lived, and where he worked. At that point both
the DPD and FBI know he works on the parade route. The DPD could then
request the Sheriff have Deputies keep him under surveillance during the
parade. Another reason, an assassination attempt by a rifle shot at a
local politician had already happened in the Dallas area. The sniper was
still on the loose. As it turns out the same sniper shot the President.
I believe he was handing out the FPFC flyers in New Orleans, not Dallas.
DPD would have had no knowledge of that. Even if they had known about it,
you are suggesting a level of surveillance which his actions up to that
point didn't warrant. Neither local police nor the federal agencies have
unlimited manpower. They allocate resources based on perceived needs.

Yes there had been an assassination attempt on a far right wing figure
much earlier in the year but Oswald was not a suspect in that one. There
is no reason to think the same person who took a shot at Walker would also
want to kill JFK.
Steve M. Galbraith
2018-04-25 22:09:49 UTC
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Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?
It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done.
Hindsight is how we learn from our mistakes.
Post by bigdog
Is there any reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to
Oswald's curtain rods. What reason would he have to suspect there
was more to it than that.
He only knew LHO a short time and this guy does something peculiar the
same week the President is coming for a visit. Most people I know would
ask me what I had in the bag if they gave me a ride to work. BWF did that
too and the answer was curtain rods. My friends would ask why so many if
the bag seems heavy. His sister Linnie Mae noticed the large bag was
heavy when she saw LHO walking up to the house. When LHO got out of the
car at the parking lot BWF watched him carry the bag in an odd way as if
it was heavy.
At that point he should tell his boss about it to protect himself if LHO
is a thief or worse. Some companies don't allow employees to bring any
bags or tools to work without permission. This policy prevents pilfering
of tools or inventory, like books in this case. As a result no bags in or
out without inspection is a work rule. Even lunch boxes must be open when
leaving work. Employees providing a ride don't want to be accused of
being part of a company theft situation and lose their job too.
Another question is did BWF ever give LHO a ride to the Sportsdrome a
short distance from Irving? As you know this is a hot topic of debate on
this forum. It would be normal behavior for two young guys with milsurp
rifles to take advantage of this new firing range just to check it out. If
so this is another reason for BWF to be curious about a large paper bag he
is transporting to his workplace overlooking the downtown parade route for
the much publicized Presidential visit. As it turned out he was indeed a
suspect in this ambush. He could've avoided that problem by notifying his
boss about the curious paper bag that morning.
All this assuming BWF is totally innocent of any wrongdoing. At least one
CT website claims Frazier, Linnie Mae and Bill Randle were CIA plants with
Ruth Paine to be handlers for Marina and LHO. One might even notice the
Sportsdrome opened the end of September just in time for LHO returning
from Mexico to start practicing for the ambush. Another CT theory might
be the Sportsdrome was a CIA front and BWF was supposed to make sure LHO
practiced every weekend.
Post by bigdog
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route.
I thought that was part of their job. They had access to information
Dallas authorities did not have. They could have shared info and used the
Police and Deputies to check out where names on the list lived and worked.
LHO should have popped up on that list and would have been easy for
Deputies to walk across the street and keep an eye on him during the
parade.
20/20 hindsight.
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Of all the people they were keeping tabs on in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area,
what would have made Oswald stand out more than any of the others
prior to 11/22/63.
He was a former military defector to the USSR and returned to the Dallas
area. The DPD was aware he was handing out Fair Play For Cuba flyers in
downtown Dallas. They should have checked him out and reported to the FBI
his activities, where he lived, and where he worked. At that point both
the DPD and FBI know he works on the parade route. The DPD could then
request the Sheriff have Deputies keep him under surveillance during the
parade. Another reason, an assassination attempt by a rifle shot at a
local politician had already happened in the Dallas area. The sniper was
still on the loose. As it turns out the same sniper shot the President.
I believe he was handing out the FPFC flyers in New Orleans, not Dallas.
DPD would have had no knowledge of that. Even if they had known about it,
you are suggesting a level of surveillance which his actions up to that
point didn't warrant. Neither local police nor the federal agencies have
unlimited manpower. They allocate resources based on perceived needs.
Yes there had been an assassination attempt on a far right wing figure
much earlier in the year but Oswald was not a suspect in that one. There
is no reason to think the same person who took a shot at Walker would also
want to kill JFK.
There's evidence - Hosty said he couldn't verify it - that Oswald protested
for the FPCC/Castro when he lived in Dallas earlier in 1963.

Hosty quoting from the FBI report on Oswald:

Mr. HOSTY. It says, "On April 21, 1963, Dallas confidential informant T-2
advised that Lee H. Oswald of Dallas, Tex, was in contact with the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee in New York City at which time he advised that he
passed out pamphlets for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. According to
T-2, Oswald had a placard around his neck reading, 'Hands Off Cuba, Viva
Fidel.'"

Mr. STERN. Did you attempt to verify that information?

Mr. HOSTY. When I got it, it was approximately 6 or 7 weeks old, past the
date it allegedly took place, and we had received no information to the
effect that anyone had been in the downtown streets of Dallas or anywhere
in Dallas with a sign around their neck saying "Hands Off Cuba, Viva
Fidel." It appeared highly unlikely to me that such an occurrence could
have happened in Dallas without having been brought to our attention. So
by the time I got it, it was, you might say, stale information and we did
not attempt to verify it.

You have to look at Oswald's entire record and not these isolated
incidents.

Recall that Hoover punished over a dozens FBI agents for failing to
adequately monitor Oswald. At the very least he should have been more
closely watched.

This isn't 20/20 hindsight.
John McAdams
2018-04-25 22:15:12 UTC
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On 25 Apr 2018 18:09:49 -0400, "Steve M. Galbraith"
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by bigdog
Yes there had been an assassination attempt on a far right wing figure
much earlier in the year but Oswald was not a suspect in that one. There
is no reason to think the same person who took a shot at Walker would also
want to kill JFK.
There's evidence - Hosty said he couldn't verify it - that Oswald protested
for the FPCC/Castro when he lived in Dallas earlier in 1963.
Mr. HOSTY. It says, "On April 21, 1963, Dallas confidential informant T-2
advised that Lee H. Oswald of Dallas, Tex, was in contact with the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee in New York City at which time he advised that he
passed out pamphlets for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. According to
T-2, Oswald had a placard around his neck reading, 'Hands Off Cuba, Viva
Fidel.'"
Mr. STERN. Did you attempt to verify that information?
Mr. HOSTY. When I got it, it was approximately 6 or 7 weeks old, past the
date it allegedly took place, and we had received no information to the
effect that anyone had been in the downtown streets of Dallas or anywhere
in Dallas with a sign around their neck saying "Hands Off Cuba, Viva
Fidel." It appeared highly unlikely to me that such an occurrence could
have happened in Dallas without having been brought to our attention. So
by the time I got it, it was, you might say, stale information and we did
not attempt to verify it.
You have to look at Oswald's entire record and not these isolated
incidents.
Recall that Hoover punished over a dozens FBI agents for failing to
adequately monitor Oswald. At the very least he should have been more
closely watched.
This isn't 20/20 hindsight.
I frankly think it is 20/20 hindsight.

Hoover's discipline suggests to me nothing more than scapegoating some
agents for political reasons.

Remember: Oswald may look very suspicious to *us* since we know what
happened. But how many people where there who, a priori, would have
been equally suspicious?

My vague recollection is that Hosty had about 30 groups and/or people
to keep track of, mostly potentially violent right-wingers.

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Steve M. Galbraith
2018-04-26 17:41:14 UTC
Reply
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Post by John McAdams
On 25 Apr 2018 18:09:49 -0400, "Steve M. Galbraith"
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by bigdog
Yes there had been an assassination attempt on a far right wing figure
much earlier in the year but Oswald was not a suspect in that one. There
is no reason to think the same person who took a shot at Walker would also
want to kill JFK.
There's evidence - Hosty said he couldn't verify it - that Oswald protested
for the FPCC/Castro when he lived in Dallas earlier in 1963.
Mr. HOSTY. It says, "On April 21, 1963, Dallas confidential informant T-2
advised that Lee H. Oswald of Dallas, Tex, was in contact with the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee in New York City at which time he advised that he
passed out pamphlets for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. According to
T-2, Oswald had a placard around his neck reading, 'Hands Off Cuba, Viva
Fidel.'"
Mr. STERN. Did you attempt to verify that information?
Mr. HOSTY. When I got it, it was approximately 6 or 7 weeks old, past the
date it allegedly took place, and we had received no information to the
effect that anyone had been in the downtown streets of Dallas or anywhere
in Dallas with a sign around their neck saying "Hands Off Cuba, Viva
Fidel." It appeared highly unlikely to me that such an occurrence could
have happened in Dallas without having been brought to our attention. So
by the time I got it, it was, you might say, stale information and we did
not attempt to verify it.
You have to look at Oswald's entire record and not these isolated
incidents.
Recall that Hoover punished over a dozens FBI agents for failing to
adequately monitor Oswald. At the very least he should have been more
closely watched.
This isn't 20/20 hindsight.
I frankly think it is 20/20 hindsight.
Hoover's discipline suggests to me nothing more than scapegoating some
agents for political reasons.
Remember: Oswald may look very suspicious to *us* since we know what
happened. But how many people where there who, a priori, would have
been equally suspicious?
My vague recollection is that Hosty had about 30 groups and/or people
to keep track of, mostly potentially violent right-wingers.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
The Gale report is pretty damning. Scapegoating agents still risks having
the FBI - Hoover - receive the brunt of the criticism. A smarter move -
and Hoover was notorious for worrying about the agency's image - would
have been to sweep it under the proverbial rug.

It seems to me we can keep two ideas in our heads: the FBI failed to
adequately keep track of Oswald AND those failures didn't cause the
assassination. Or as Hosty put it in his book, even if the agents followed
proper procedures, e.g., Oswald kept on the security index, the
assassination still would have occurred.

Still, given Oswald's fragile emotional makeup after his rejection by the
Cubans in MC I think a face-to-face meeting with Hosty might have raised
some red flags. Oswald did, I think, blame the agency for his
financial/job problems. He was a pretty desperate person by late October
1963.

Would this has stopped the assassination? Most likely not. The FBI and SS
didn't have much of a working relationship. At least based on Hosty's
account.
Anthony Marsh
2018-04-27 22:01:05 UTC
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Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by John McAdams
On 25 Apr 2018 18:09:49 -0400, "Steve M. Galbraith"
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by bigdog
Yes there had been an assassination attempt on a far right wing figure
much earlier in the year but Oswald was not a suspect in that one. There
is no reason to think the same person who took a shot at Walker would also
want to kill JFK.
There's evidence - Hosty said he couldn't verify it - that Oswald protested
for the FPCC/Castro when he lived in Dallas earlier in 1963.
Mr. HOSTY. It says, "On April 21, 1963, Dallas confidential informant T-2
advised that Lee H. Oswald of Dallas, Tex, was in contact with the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee in New York City at which time he advised that he
passed out pamphlets for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. According to
T-2, Oswald had a placard around his neck reading, 'Hands Off Cuba, Viva
Fidel.'"
Mr. STERN. Did you attempt to verify that information?
Mr. HOSTY. When I got it, it was approximately 6 or 7 weeks old, past the
date it allegedly took place, and we had received no information to the
effect that anyone had been in the downtown streets of Dallas or anywhere
in Dallas with a sign around their neck saying "Hands Off Cuba, Viva
Fidel." It appeared highly unlikely to me that such an occurrence could
have happened in Dallas without having been brought to our attention. So
by the time I got it, it was, you might say, stale information and we did
not attempt to verify it.
You have to look at Oswald's entire record and not these isolated
incidents.
Recall that Hoover punished over a dozens FBI agents for failing to
adequately monitor Oswald. At the very least he should have been more
closely watched.
This isn't 20/20 hindsight.
I frankly think it is 20/20 hindsight.
Hoover's discipline suggests to me nothing more than scapegoating some
agents for political reasons.
Remember: Oswald may look very suspicious to *us* since we know what
happened. But how many people where there who, a priori, would have
been equally suspicious?
My vague recollection is that Hosty had about 30 groups and/or people
to keep track of, mostly potentially violent right-wingers.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
The Gale report is pretty damning. Scapegoating agents still risks having
the FBI - Hoover - receive the brunt of the criticism. A smarter move -
and Hoover was notorious for worrying about the agency's image - would
have been to sweep it under the proverbial rug.
It seems to me we can keep two ideas in our heads: the FBI failed to
adequately keep track of Oswald AND those failures didn't cause the
Was it the FBI's job to keep track of Oswald? Is it the FBI's job to
keep track of every person in the world?
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
assassination. Or as Hosty put it in his book, even if the agents followed
proper procedures, e.g., Oswald kept on the security index, the
assassination still would have occurred.
That's right. People on the watch list are still allowed to assassinate
the President. Brilliant!
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Still, given Oswald's fragile emotional makeup after his rejection by the
Cubans in MC I think a face-to-face meeting with Hosty might have raised
some red flags. Oswald did, I think, blame the agency for his
financial/job problems. He was a pretty desperate person by late October
1963.
Would this has stopped the assassination? Most likely not. The FBI and SS
didn't have much of a working relationship. At least based on Hosty's
account.
Would not goingd to Dallas have stopped the assassination? Connally urged
JFK to Not come to Dallas.
claviger
2018-04-26 17:55:29 UTC
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Post by John McAdams
On 25 Apr 2018 18:09:49 -0400, "Steve M. Galbraith"
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by bigdog
Yes there had been an assassination attempt on a far right wing figure
much earlier in the year but Oswald was not a suspect in that one. There
is no reason to think the same person who took a shot at Walker would also
want to kill JFK.
There's evidence - Hosty said he couldn't verify it - that Oswald protested
for the FPCC/Castro when he lived in Dallas earlier in 1963.
Mr. HOSTY. It says, "On April 21, 1963, Dallas confidential informant T-2
advised that Lee H. Oswald of Dallas, Tex, was in contact with the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee in New York City at which time he advised that he
passed out pamphlets for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. According to
T-2, Oswald had a placard around his neck reading, 'Hands Off Cuba, Viva
Fidel.'"
Mr. STERN. Did you attempt to verify that information?
Mr. HOSTY. When I got it, it was approximately 6 or 7 weeks old, past the
date it allegedly took place, and we had received no information to the
effect that anyone had been in the downtown streets of Dallas or anywhere
in Dallas with a sign around their neck saying "Hands Off Cuba, Viva
Fidel." It appeared highly unlikely to me that such an occurrence could
have happened in Dallas without having been brought to our attention. So
by the time I got it, it was, you might say, stale information and we did
not attempt to verify it.
You have to look at Oswald's entire record and not these isolated
incidents.
Recall that Hoover punished over a dozens FBI agents for failing to
adequately monitor Oswald. At the very least he should have been more
closely watched.
This isn't 20/20 hindsight.
I frankly think it is 20/20 hindsight.
Hoover's discipline suggests to me nothing more than scapegoating some
agents for political reasons.
Remember: Oswald may look very suspicious to *us* since we know what
happened. But how many people where there who, a priori, would have
been equally suspicious?
LHO was a hitman trying to make his bones by hiding in plain sight.
He talked the talk and walked the walk. He was making war on US
Capitalism in word and deed, just like his hero Fidel Castro did, who
was proud of his record as a sniper during the Cuban Revolución.
Post by John McAdams
My vague recollection is that Hosty had about 30 groups and/or people
to keep track of, mostly potentially violent right-wingers.
Yes the focus was on right-wingers. Here's a thought, why not request
help from local law enforcement for 30 volunteers to help sort through
and evaluate risk profiles? Basic info like where do the live and where
they work? That research alone might have saved President Kennedy.
I don't hate Hosty but he was the perfect FBI clone who could not think
outside the box. Did the FBI have a condescending ego toward all local
Law Enforcement officers? If so, that Federal arrogance may have been
a deadly mistake.
Anthony Marsh
2018-04-27 22:03:10 UTC
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Post by claviger
Post by John McAdams
On 25 Apr 2018 18:09:49 -0400, "Steve M. Galbraith"
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by bigdog
Yes there had been an assassination attempt on a far right wing figure
much earlier in the year but Oswald was not a suspect in that one. There
is no reason to think the same person who took a shot at Walker would also
want to kill JFK.
There's evidence - Hosty said he couldn't verify it - that Oswald protested
for the FPCC/Castro when he lived in Dallas earlier in 1963.
Mr. HOSTY. It says, "On April 21, 1963, Dallas confidential informant T-2
advised that Lee H. Oswald of Dallas, Tex, was in contact with the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee in New York City at which time he advised that he
passed out pamphlets for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. According to
T-2, Oswald had a placard around his neck reading, 'Hands Off Cuba, Viva
Fidel.'"
Mr. STERN. Did you attempt to verify that information?
Mr. HOSTY. When I got it, it was approximately 6 or 7 weeks old, past the
date it allegedly took place, and we had received no information to the
effect that anyone had been in the downtown streets of Dallas or anywhere
in Dallas with a sign around their neck saying "Hands Off Cuba, Viva
Fidel." It appeared highly unlikely to me that such an occurrence could
have happened in Dallas without having been brought to our attention. So
by the time I got it, it was, you might say, stale information and we did
not attempt to verify it.
You have to look at Oswald's entire record and not these isolated
incidents.
Recall that Hoover punished over a dozens FBI agents for failing to
adequately monitor Oswald. At the very least he should have been more
closely watched.
This isn't 20/20 hindsight.
I frankly think it is 20/20 hindsight.
Hoover's discipline suggests to me nothing more than scapegoating some
agents for political reasons.
Remember: Oswald may look very suspicious to *us* since we know what
happened. But how many people where there who, a priori, would have
been equally suspicious?
LHO was a hitman trying to make his bones by hiding in plain sight.
He talked the talk and walked the walk. He was making war on US
Capitalism in word and deed, just like his hero Fidel Castro did, who
was proud of his record as a sniper during the Cuban Revolución.
Post by John McAdams
My vague recollection is that Hosty had about 30 groups and/or people
to keep track of, mostly potentially violent right-wingers.
Yes the focus was on right-wingers. Here's a thought, why not request
help from local law enforcement for 30 volunteers to help sort through
Compartmentalization.
Post by claviger
and evaluate risk profiles? Basic info like where do the live and where
they work? That research alone might have saved President Kennedy.
I don't hate Hosty but he was the perfect FBI clone who could not think
outside the box. Did the FBI have a condescending ego toward all local
Law Enforcement officers? If so, that Federal arrogance may have been
a deadly mistake.
claviger
2018-04-27 00:24:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by John McAdams
On 25 Apr 2018 18:09:49 -0400, "Steve M. Galbraith"
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by bigdog
Yes there had been an assassination attempt on a far right wing figure
much earlier in the year but Oswald was not a suspect in that one. There
is no reason to think the same person who took a shot at Walker would also
want to kill JFK.
There's evidence - Hosty said he couldn't verify it - that Oswald protested
for the FPCC/Castro when he lived in Dallas earlier in 1963.
Mr. HOSTY. It says, "On April 21, 1963, Dallas confidential informant T-2
advised that Lee H. Oswald of Dallas, Tex, was in contact with the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee in New York City at which time he advised that he
passed out pamphlets for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. According to
T-2, Oswald had a placard around his neck reading, 'Hands Off Cuba, Viva
Fidel.'"
Mr. STERN. Did you attempt to verify that information?
Mr. HOSTY. When I got it, it was approximately 6 or 7 weeks old, past the
date it allegedly took place, and we had received no information to the
effect that anyone had been in the downtown streets of Dallas or anywhere
in Dallas with a sign around their neck saying "Hands Off Cuba, Viva
Fidel." It appeared highly unlikely to me that such an occurrence could
have happened in Dallas without having been brought to our attention. So
by the time I got it, it was, you might say, stale information and we did
not attempt to verify it.
You have to look at Oswald's entire record and not these isolated
incidents.
Recall that Hoover punished over a dozens FBI agents for failing to
adequately monitor Oswald. At the very least he should have been more
closely watched.
This isn't 20/20 hindsight.
I frankly think it is 20/20 hindsight.
Hoover's discipline suggests to me nothing more than scapegoating some
agents for political reasons.
Remember: Oswald may look very suspicious to *us* since we know what
happened. But how many people where there who, a priori, would have
been equally suspicious?
My vague recollection is that Hosty had about 30 groups and/or people
to keep track of, mostly potentially violent right-wingers.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
If there was no culpability why did Shanklin destroy the note from LHO?

Why did Chief Curry never mention the DPD knew LHO was passing out
Hands Off Cuba leaflets in downtown Dallas?

If both knew LHO was a Communist punk why not keep an eye on him
until the motorcade has safely passed the warehouse where he works
inside Dealey Plaza?

Curry blamed the FBI for not telling him about LHO and rightly so, but his
downtown patrol knew about him. I wonder if they ever told Curry before
or after the fact?
Anthony Marsh
2018-04-27 11:47:30 UTC
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Post by John McAdams
On 25 Apr 2018 18:09:49 -0400, "Steve M. Galbraith"
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by bigdog
Yes there had been an assassination attempt on a far right wing figure
much earlier in the year but Oswald was not a suspect in that one. There
is no reason to think the same person who took a shot at Walker would also
want to kill JFK.
There's evidence - Hosty said he couldn't verify it - that Oswald protested
for the FPCC/Castro when he lived in Dallas earlier in 1963.
Mr. HOSTY. It says, "On April 21, 1963, Dallas confidential informant T-2
advised that Lee H. Oswald of Dallas, Tex, was in contact with the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee in New York City at which time he advised that he
passed out pamphlets for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. According to
T-2, Oswald had a placard around his neck reading, 'Hands Off Cuba, Viva
Fidel.'"
Mr. STERN. Did you attempt to verify that information?
Mr. HOSTY. When I got it, it was approximately 6 or 7 weeks old, past the
date it allegedly took place, and we had received no information to the
effect that anyone had been in the downtown streets of Dallas or anywhere
in Dallas with a sign around their neck saying "Hands Off Cuba, Viva
Fidel." It appeared highly unlikely to me that such an occurrence could
have happened in Dallas without having been brought to our attention. So
by the time I got it, it was, you might say, stale information and we did
not attempt to verify it.
You have to look at Oswald's entire record and not these isolated
incidents.
Recall that Hoover punished over a dozens FBI agents for failing to
adequately monitor Oswald. At the very least he should have been more
closely watched.
This isn't 20/20 hindsight.
I frankly think it is 20/20 hindsight.
Hoover's discipline suggests to me nothing more than scapegoating some
agents for political reasons.
Remember: Oswald may look very suspicious to *us* since we know what
happened. But how many people where there who, a priori, would have
been equally suspicious?
You also have to rember that the CIA was not sharing EVERYTHING with the
FBI. Sure, Hosty knew about the trip to Mexico, but he did not know that
Kostikov was the head of the KGB's asassinationdeprtment. Sources and
Methods.
Post by John McAdams
My vague recollection is that Hosty had about 30 groups and/or people
to keep track of, mostly potentially violent right-wingers.
Too much work for one man.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Anthony Marsh
2018-04-25 22:20:30 UTC
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Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?
It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done.
Hindsight is how we learn from our mistakes.
Post by bigdog
Is there any reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to
Oswald's curtain rods. What reason would he have to suspect there
was more to it than that.
He only knew LHO a short time and this guy does something peculiar the
same week the President is coming for a visit. Most people I know would
ask me what I had in the bag if they gave me a ride to work. BWF did that
too and the answer was curtain rods. My friends would ask why so many if
the bag seems heavy. His sister Linnie Mae noticed the large bag was
heavy when she saw LHO walking up to the house. When LHO got out of the
car at the parking lot BWF watched him carry the bag in an odd way as if
it was heavy.
At that point he should tell his boss about it to protect himself if LHO
is a thief or worse. Some companies don't allow employees to bring any
bags or tools to work without permission. This policy prevents pilfering
You mean like the other TSBD employee who brought in his rifle to show
off? Are you forgetting that it was Take Your Rifle to Work Week?
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
of tools or inventory, like books in this case. As a result no bags in or
out without inspection is a work rule. Even lunch boxes must be open when
leaving work. Employees providing a ride don't want to be accused of
being part of a company theft situation and lose their job too.
So, bringing something IN to the TSBD is theft?
If I take a pencil to the store and leave it there you call that
shoplifting?
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Another question is did BWF ever give LHO a ride to the Sportsdrome a
short distance from Irving? As you know this is a hot topic of debate on
this forum. It would be normal behavior for two young guys with milsurp
rifles to take advantage of this new firing range just to check it out. If
so this is another reason for BWF to be curious about a large paper bag he
is transporting to his workplace overlooking the downtown parade route for
the much publicized Presidential visit. As it turned out he was indeed a
suspect in this ambush. He could've avoided that problem by notifying his
boss about the curious paper bag that morning.
All this assuming BWF is totally innocent of any wrongdoing. At least one
Are you trying to make Fraazier an accomplice the way Fritz did? Are you
suggesting conspiracy?
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
CT website claims Frazier, Linnie Mae and Bill Randle were CIA plants with
Ruth Paine to be handlers for Marina and LHO. One might even notice the
So what? No proof for that.
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
Sportsdrome opened the end of September just in time for LHO returning
from Mexico to start practicing for the ambush. Another CT theory might
be the Sportsdrome was a CIA front and BWF was supposed to make sure LHO
practiced every weekend.
Post by bigdog
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route.
Reductio ad Absurdum. So you say the SS was unqualified to do their job. I
had a little visit from the SS and it didn't bother me at all. I was happy
to see them doing their jobs properly. I showed them my Carcano and they
did not take it away from me.
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
I thought that was part of their job. They had access to information
Dallas authorities did not have. They could have shared info and used the
Police and Deputies to check out where names on the list lived and worked.
Sources and Methods.
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
LHO should have popped up on that list and would have been easy for
Deputies to walk across the street and keep an eye on him during the
parade.
What list? He was already on a Watchlist.
Post by bigdog
20/20 hindsight.
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Of all the people they were keeping tabs on in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area,
what would have made Oswald stand out more than any of the others
prior to 11/22/63.
He was a former military defector to the USSR and returned to the Dallas
area. The DPD was aware he was handing out Fair Play For Cuba flyers in
Please show me the film of Oswald handing out FPCC flyers in Dallas.
I think you don't understand the difference between Dallas and New Orleans.
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
downtown Dallas. They should have checked him out and reported to the FBI
his activities, where he lived, and where he worked. At that point both
Hosty tried and couldn't find him.
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
the DPD and FBI know he works on the parade route. The DPD could then
request the Sheriff have Deputies keep him under surveillance during the
parade. Another reason, an assassination attempt by a rifle shot at a
local politician had already happened in the Dallas area. The sniper was
still on the loose. As it turns out the same sniper shot the President.
I believe he was handing out the FPFC flyers in New Orleans, not Dallas.
DPD would have had no knowledge of that. Even if they had known about it,
you are suggesting a level of surveillance which his actions up to that
point didn't warrant. Neither local police nor the federal agencies have
unlimited manpower. They allocate resources based on perceived needs.
Yes there had been an assassination attempt on a far right wing figure
much earlier in the year but Oswald was not a suspect in that one. There
Why not? Because the DPD were morons.
Post by bigdog
is no reason to think the same person who took a shot at Walker would also
want to kill JFK.
OHLeeRedux
2018-04-26 17:42:06 UTC
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Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?
It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done.
Hindsight is how we learn from our mistakes.
Post by bigdog
Is there any reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to
Oswald's curtain rods. What reason would he have to suspect there
was more to it than that.
He only knew LHO a short time and this guy does something peculiar the
same week the President is coming for a visit. Most people I know would
ask me what I had in the bag if they gave me a ride to work. BWF did that
too and the answer was curtain rods. My friends would ask why so many if
the bag seems heavy. His sister Linnie Mae noticed the large bag was
heavy when she saw LHO walking up to the house. When LHO got out of the
car at the parking lot BWF watched him carry the bag in an odd way as if
it was heavy.
At that point he should tell his boss about it to protect himself if LHO
is a thief or worse. Some companies don't allow employees to bring any
bags or tools to work without permission. This policy prevents pilfering
You mean like the other TSBD employee who brought in his rifle to show
off? Are you forgetting that it was Take Your Rifle to Work Week?
Another of Marsh's childish clichés to add to my list.
Anthony Marsh
2018-04-24 17:06:27 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?
It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done.
Hindsight is how we learn from our mistakes.
Post by bigdog
Is there any reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to
Oswald's curtain rods. What reason would he have to suspect there
was more to it than that.
He only knew LHO a short time and this guy does something peculiar the
same week the President is coming for a visit. Most people I know would
ask me what I had in the bag if they gave me a ride to work. BWF did that
too and the answer was curtain rods. My friends would ask why so many if
the bag seems heavy. His sister Linnie Mae noticed the large bag was
heavy when she saw LHO walking up to the house. When LHO got out of the
car at the parking lot BWF watched him carry the bag in an odd way as if
it was heavy.
At that point he should tell his boss about it to protect himself if LHO
is a thief or worse. Some companies don't allow employees to bring any
bags or tools to work without permission. This policy prevents pilfering
of tools or inventory, like books in this case. As a result no bags in or
out without inspection is a work rule. Even lunch boxes must be open when
leaving work. Employees providing a ride don't want to be accused of
being part of a company theft situation and lose their job too.
Another question is did BWF ever give LHO a ride to the Sportsdrome a
short distance from Irving? As you know this is a hot topic of debate on
this forum. It would be normal behavior for two young guys with milsurp
rifles to take advantage of this new firing range just to check it out. If
so this is another reason for BWF to be curious about a large paper bag he
is transporting to his workplace overlooking the downtown parade route for
the much publicized Presidential visit. As it turned out he was indeed a
suspect in this ambush. He could've avoided that problem by notifying his
boss about the curious paper bag that morning.
All this assuming BWF is totally innocent of any wrongdoing. At least one
CT website claims Frazier, Linnie Mae and Bill Randle were CIA plants with
Ruth Paine to be handlers for Marina and LHO. One might even notice the
Sportsdrome opened the end of September just in time for LHO returning
from Mexico to start practicing for the ambush. Another CT theory might
be the Sportsdrome was a CIA front and BWF was supposed to make sure LHO
practiced every weekend.
Post by bigdog
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route.
I thought that was part of their job. They had access to information
No. Secret Service, not FBI. FBI couldn't even find Oswald to question
him.
Post by claviger
Dallas authorities did not have. They could have shared info and used the
Police and Deputies to check out where names on the list lived and worked.
The FBI did not even tell the DPD that Oswald was back in Dallas.
Post by claviger
LHO should have popped up on that list and would have been easy for
Deputies to walk across the street and keep an eye on him during the
parade.
Post by bigdog
Of all the people they were keeping tabs on in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area,
what would have made Oswald stand out more than any of the others
prior to 11/22/63.
Maybe threatening to blow up the FBI office. How many people had done
that?

<crickets>
Post by claviger
He was a former military defector to the USSR and returned to the Dallas
area. The DPD was aware he was handing out Fair Play For Cuba flyers in
downtown Dallas. They should have checked him out and reported to the FBI
Great info. Do you have any photos or films of Oswald having out FPCC
flyers in Dallas? Please post them.
Post by claviger
his activities, where he lived, and where he worked. At that point both
the DPD and FBI know he works on the parade route. The DPD could then
request the Sheriff have Deputies keep him under surveillance during the
parade. Another reason, an assassination attempt by a rifle shot at a
Then why didn't they keep the other 400 suspects under surveillance?
Post by claviger
local politician had already happened in the Dallas area. The sniper was
still on the loose. As it turns out the same sniper shot the President.
Steve M. Galbraith
2018-04-23 03:02:35 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?
It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done. Is there any
reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to Oswald's curtain
rods. What reason would he have to suspect there was more to it than that.
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route. Of all the people they were keeping tabs on
in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, what would have made Oswald stand out more
than any of the others prior to 11/22/63.
How about the knowledge that he visited the Soviet Embassy in MC where he
met the reported head of KGB assassinations in the Western Hemisphere?
bigdog
2018-04-24 00:56:33 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?
It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done. Is there any
reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to Oswald's curtain
rods. What reason would he have to suspect there was more to it than that.
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route. Of all the people they were keeping tabs on
in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, what would have made Oswald stand out more
than any of the others prior to 11/22/63.
How about the knowledge that he visited the Soviet Embassy in MC where he
met the reported head of KGB assassinations in the Western Hemisphere?
It was already known he was a communist sympathizer and the trip to MC
would have fit right in with that. That's the reason he was a person of
interest to both the FBI and the CIA. Did they know he met with the KGB
head of assassinations? Oswald was already an attempted assassin although
nobody but Marina knew that then. He may have had other targets in mind
when he met with the KGB. Could anyone at the time have known that through
twists of fate, Oswald was going to be dealt a golden opportunity to
assassinate JFK. It's easy to connect the dots now. Not so easy prior to
11/22/63.
claviger
2018-04-25 01:22:44 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by bigdog
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?
It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done. Is there any
reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to Oswald's curtain
rods. What reason would he have to suspect there was more to it than that.
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route. Of all the people they were keeping tabs on
in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, what would have made Oswald stand out more
than any of the others prior to 11/22/63.
How about the knowledge that he visited the Soviet Embassy in MC where he
met the reported head of KGB assassinations in the Western Hemisphere?
It was already known he was a communist sympathizer and the trip to MC
would have fit right in with that. That's the reason he was a person of
interest to both the FBI and the CIA. Did they know he met with the KGB
head of assassinations? Oswald was already an attempted assassin although
nobody but Marina knew that then. He may have had other targets in mind
when he met with the KGB. Could anyone at the time have known that through
twists of fate, Oswald was going to be dealt a golden opportunity to assassinate
JFK. It's easy to connect the dots now. Not so easy prior to 11/22/63.
These were found inside the Paine garage:
Hands Off Cuba Advertisement from Oswald's Home
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth49452/
[Photograph of 'Hands Off Cuba' Flyer]
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth346593/


Stavis “Steve” Ellis
Solo Motorcycle Officer
Dallas Police Department
___________________________________________________________________________

After the assassination, the FBI did their investigative work on the curb
where I had seen the shot and cut off the section to analyze. However,
they cut off the wrong section. We later found the place where it hit.
Sergeant Harkness knows. He was a three-wheel sergeant who worked
traffic downtown.
He first became involved in all this several months earlier when one
of his three-wheelers apparently saw Oswald passing out pamphlets
about Cuba, which was illegal in the city of Dallas without a permit.
Harkness was called in to investigate and, of course, Harkness was also
in the downtown area when all this happened with the President.
___________________________________________________________________________
http://www.kenrahn.com/JFK/History/The_deed/Sneed/Ellis.html
claviger
2018-04-26 00:52:43 UTC
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Post by claviger
Stavis “Steve” Ellis
Solo Motorcycle Officer
Dallas Police Department
___________________________________________________________________________
After the assassination, the FBI did their investigative work on the curb
where I had seen the shot and cut off the section to analyze. However,
they cut off the wrong section. We later found the place where it hit.
Sergeant Harkness knows. He was a three-wheel sergeant who worked
traffic downtown.
He first became involved in all this several months earlier when one
of his three-wheelers apparently saw Oswald passing out pamphlets
about Cuba, which was illegal in the city of Dallas without a permit.
Harkness was called in to investigate and, of course, Harkness was also
in the downtown area when all this happened with the President.
___________________________________________________________________________
http://www.kenrahn.com/JFK/History/The_deed/Sneed/Ellis.html
So was there a report by Sgt. Harkness on this incident? Should LHO be
given a citation and fine, or did Harkness give him a warning? Strange he
never mentioned this to the FBI or the Warren Commission.
Anthony Marsh
2018-04-27 00:18:38 UTC
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Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Stavis “Steve” Ellis
Solo Motorcycle Officer
Dallas Police Department
___________________________________________________________________________
After the assassination, the FBI did their investigative work on the curb
where I had seen the shot and cut off the section to analyze. However,
they cut off the wrong section. We later found the place where it hit.
Sergeant Harkness knows. He was a three-wheel sergeant who worked
traffic downtown.
He first became involved in all this several months earlier when one
of his three-wheelers apparently saw Oswald passing out pamphlets
about Cuba, which was illegal in the city of Dallas without a permit.
Harkness was called in to investigate and, of course, Harkness was also
in the downtown area when all this happened with the President.
___________________________________________________________________________
http://www.kenrahn.com/JFK/History/The_deed/Sneed/Ellis.html
So was there a report by Sgt. Harkness on this incident? Should LHO be
given a citation and fine, or did Harkness give him a warning? Strange he
never mentioned this to the FBI or the Warren Commission.
You're asking tough questions of the cover-up. How rude!
claviger
2018-04-27 00:20:55 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Stavis “Steve” Ellis
Solo Motorcycle Officer
Dallas Police Department
___________________________________________________________________________
After the assassination, the FBI did their investigative work on the curb
where I had seen the shot and cut off the section to analyze. However,
they cut off the wrong section. We later found the place where it hit.
Sergeant Harkness knows. He was a three-wheel sergeant who worked
traffic downtown.
He first became involved in all this several months earlier when one
of his three-wheelers apparently saw Oswald passing out pamphlets
about Cuba, which was illegal in the city of Dallas without a permit.
Harkness was called in to investigate and, of course, Harkness was also
in the downtown area when all this happened with the President.
___________________________________________________________________________
http://www.kenrahn.com/JFK/History/The_deed/Sneed/Ellis.html
So was there a report by Sgt. Harkness on this incident? Should LHO be
given a citation and fine, or did Harkness give him a warning? Strange he
never mentioned this to the FBI or the Warren Commission.
Sounds like LHO was trying to get attention from the media and anyone else
who would pay attention. Failing that, he asked the question: "What do I
need to do to make you people notice me, shoot the President?"

Sadly, the answer was yes.

All his life he was ignored as a nerdy little twerp. To the outside world
he was harmless even though he passed a rigorous Qualification process in
the USMC. Still he got no respect. While in the USSR he probably offered
his services to the KGB and they turned him down too.

The final rejection that sent him over the top was his trip to Mexico City
where both embassies gave him a double dose. So he came back to Dallas
angry at the world in a seething rage. His bad luck was about to change. A
final chance for revenge would be a double ambush to strike back at two
political enemies riding in the Presidential parade through downtown
Dallas. He would prove to all who rejected his services, that he could do
something the combined efforts of the Soviets and Castro could never do,
topple the extraordinarily popular Kennedy regime who blocked Communist
ambitions in the Caribbean region.

Unfortunately for the USA he did exactly that. LBJ came in like a Lion
and went out like a whipped alleycat. He ran up huge deficits future
generations will need to pay off. Looks like we never will. The LBJ
presidency is the gift that keeps on giving as tax misery to the Middle
Class forever.
Anthony Marsh
2018-04-28 00:08:43 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Stavis “Steve” Ellis
Solo Motorcycle Officer
Dallas Police Department
___________________________________________________________________________
After the assassination, the FBI did their investigative work on the curb
where I had seen the shot and cut off the section to analyze. However,
they cut off the wrong section. We later found the place where it hit.
Sergeant Harkness knows. He was a three-wheel sergeant who worked
traffic downtown.
He first became involved in all this several months earlier when one
of his three-wheelers apparently saw Oswald passing out pamphlets
about Cuba, which was illegal in the city of Dallas without a permit.
Harkness was called in to investigate and, of course, Harkness was also
in the downtown area when all this happened with the President.
___________________________________________________________________________
http://www.kenrahn.com/JFK/History/The_deed/Sneed/Ellis.html
So was there a report by Sgt. Harkness on this incident? Should LHO be
given a citation and fine, or did Harkness give him a warning? Strange he
never mentioned this to the FBI or the Warren Commission.
Sounds like LHO was trying to get attention from the media and anyone else
who would pay attention. Failing that, he asked the question: "What do I
need to do to make you people notice me, shoot the President?"
Sadly, the answer was yes.
All his life he was ignored as a nerdy little twerp. To the outside world
he was harmless even though he passed a rigorous Qualification process in
the USMC. Still he got no respect. While in the USSR he probably offered
his services to the KGB and they turned him down too.
The final rejection that sent him over the top was his trip to Mexico City
where both embassies gave him a double dose. So he came back to Dallas
angry at the world in a seething rage. His bad luck was about to change. A
final chance for revenge would be a double ambush to strike back at two
political enemies riding in the Presidential parade through downtown
Dallas. He would prove to all who rejected his services, that he could do
something the combined efforts of the Soviets and Castro could never do,
topple the extraordinarily popular Kennedy regime who blocked Communist
ambitions in the Caribbean region.
Unfortunately for the USA he did exactly that. LBJ came in like a Lion
and went out like a whipped alleycat. He ran up huge deficits future
Is that from the Bible. I think we know what you mean by that. LBJ got
sick and tired of the war.
Post by claviger
generations will need to pay off. Looks like we never will. The LBJ
presidency is the gift that keeps on giving as tax misery to the Middle
Class forever.
Which deficit did we never pay down? SHow me. You mean the Bush war
deficits?
claviger
2018-05-03 00:11:07 UTC
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Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Unfortunately for the USA he did exactly that. LBJ came in like a Lion
and went out like a whipped alleycat. He ran up huge deficits future
Is that from the Bible. I think we know what you mean by that. LBJ got
sick and tired of the war.
He was a victim of his own ambition and casualty of the Peter Principle.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
generations will need to pay off. Looks like we never will. The LBJ
presidency is the gift that keeps on giving as tax misery to the Middle
Class forever.
Which deficit did we never pay down? SHow me. You mean the Bush war
deficits?
You are still paying for the mentality LBJ created: we owe it to ourselves
so who cares how much we overspend? Or debt we create? What are we going
to do, foreclose on ourselves, ha ha ha! Ancient Rome had the same
attitude.

You are a Liberal who pays no taxes. That means you depend on your
neighbors to support you, so you don't care about high taxes. Where it
bites you in the butt is inflation, the only way to keep a government
ponzi scheme going. JFK did not like deficit spending or inflation, so
LBJ was a dramatic change for tax policy.

He very much wanted to be reelected so LBJ came up with a clever plan. He
upped Federal spending, not taxes, thereby creating the big deficit but
who cares? We owe it to ourselves, so kick the can down the road and let
our grandchildren pay it off! The US economy is now the biggest Ponzi
scheme on the planet. EU governments have been doing the same thing for
years and have no intention of ever paying it off. After WWII the Soviets
solved that problem in Eastern Europe by invasion and stealing natural
resources using slave labor.

JFK wanted more profits and more jobs combined with lower welfare
payments. More demand for jobs meant increased wages and kept National
Debt at 10% or lower. JFK was a fiscal conservative because his father
was his economic advisor.
bigdog
2018-05-04 12:49:35 UTC
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Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Unfortunately for the USA he did exactly that. LBJ came in like a Lion
and went out like a whipped alleycat. He ran up huge deficits future
Is that from the Bible. I think we know what you mean by that. LBJ got
sick and tired of the war.
He was a victim of his own ambition and casualty of the Peter Principle.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
generations will need to pay off. Looks like we never will. The LBJ
presidency is the gift that keeps on giving as tax misery to the Middle
Class forever.
Which deficit did we never pay down? SHow me. You mean the Bush war
deficits?
You are still paying for the mentality LBJ created: we owe it to ourselves
so who cares how much we overspend? Or debt we create? What are we going
to do, foreclose on ourselves, ha ha ha! Ancient Rome had the same
attitude.
You are a Liberal who pays no taxes. That means you depend on your
neighbors to support you, so you don't care about high taxes. Where it
bites you in the butt is inflation, the only way to keep a government
ponzi scheme going. JFK did not like deficit spending or inflation, so
LBJ was a dramatic change for tax policy.
He very much wanted to be reelected so LBJ came up with a clever plan. He
upped Federal spending, not taxes, thereby creating the big deficit but
who cares? We owe it to ourselves, so kick the can down the road and let
our grandchildren pay it off! The US economy is now the biggest Ponzi
scheme on the planet. EU governments have been doing the same thing for
years and have no intention of ever paying it off. After WWII the Soviets
solved that problem in Eastern Europe by invasion and stealing natural
resources using slave labor.
JFK wanted more profits and more jobs combined with lower welfare
payments. More demand for jobs meant increased wages and kept National
Debt at 10% or lower. JFK was a fiscal conservative because his father
was his economic advisor.
In today's Democrat Party, JFK would be a pariah. He had softened the hard
line anti-Communist views he came to Washington with that allied him with
Joe McCarthy and Richard Nixon, but he had not abandoned them. He believed
in supply side economics. He was a proud Life Member of the NRA. His views
on abortion are not clearly defined but his only SCOTUS appointee still on
the court when Roe v. Wade was handed down, Byron White, wrote the
dissenting opinion. He would have had to drastically alter his core
beliefs as Teddy did or he couldn't have been nominated to run for dog
catcher. Such views are no longer welcome in today's Democrat Party.
Anthony Marsh
2018-05-04 13:03:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Unfortunately for the USA he did exactly that. LBJ came in like a Lion
and went out like a whipped alleycat. He ran up huge deficits future
Is that from the Bible. I think we know what you mean by that. LBJ got
sick and tired of the war.
He was a victim of his own ambition and casualty of the Peter Principle.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
generations will need to pay off. Looks like we never will. The LBJ
presidency is the gift that keeps on giving as tax misery to the Middle
Class forever.
Which deficit did we never pay down? SHow me. You mean the Bush war
deficits?
You are still paying for the mentality LBJ created: we owe it to ourselves
so who cares how much we overspend? Or debt we create? What are we going
to do, foreclose on ourselves, ha ha ha! Ancient Rome had the same
attitude.
You are a Liberal who pays no taxes. That means you depend on your
Only because I am on Social Security.
Post by claviger
neighbors to support you, so you don't care about high taxes. Where it
Wrong. I paid my taxes. Now I benefit from the taxes I paid.
I care about high taxes. I want higher taxes on people like you and the
Hoch brothers.
Post by claviger
bites you in the butt is inflation, the only way to keep a government
Inflation? What's that? I can't remember that far back.
Post by claviger
ponzi scheme going. JFK did not like deficit spending or inflation, so
LBJ was a dramatic change for tax policy.
And I praised JFK for that at the time. But you want to go back to 1963
and pay 91% taxes.

I think that's bad for growth.
Post by claviger
He very much wanted to be reelected so LBJ came up with a clever plan. He
upped Federal spending, not taxes, thereby creating the big deficit but
Are you trying to say that LBJ was smart? But he also came up with
Medicare and the Voing Rights Act which you oppose. How about if you agree
to let blacks vote if he gives you billions of dollars?
Post by claviger
who cares? We owe it to ourselves, so kick the can down the road and let
our grandchildren pay it off! The US economy is now the biggest Ponzi
Sounds like a Bush plan.
Post by claviger
scheme on the planet. EU governments have been doing the same thing for
years and have no intention of ever paying it off. After WWII the Soviets
solved that problem in Eastern Europe by invasion and stealing natural
EU? Even before there was an EU? Why not trace it back to ancient Rome
or something?
Post by claviger
resources using slave labor.
They were not the only ones using slave labor. You like slave labor as
long as YOU are the one making billions.
Post by claviger
JFK wanted more profits and more jobs combined with lower welfare
And what's wrong with that? That's no reason to assasssinate someone.
Post by claviger
payments. More demand for jobs meant increased wages and kept National
Maybe, not always.
Post by claviger
Debt at 10% or lower. JFK was a fiscal conservative because his father
was his economic advisor.
Don't pretend to be an economist.
claviger
2018-05-09 23:23:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Unfortunately for the USA he did exactly that. LBJ came in like a Lion
and went out like a whipped alleycat. He ran up huge deficits future
Is that from the Bible. I think we know what you mean by that. LBJ got
sick and tired of the war.
He was a victim of his own ambition and casualty of the Peter Principle.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
generations will need to pay off. Looks like we never will. The LBJ
presidency is the gift that keeps on giving as tax misery to the Middle
Class forever.
Which deficit did we never pay down? SHow me. You mean the Bush war
deficits?
You are still paying for the mentality LBJ created: we owe it to ourselves
so who cares how much we overspend? Or debt we create? What are we going
to do, foreclose on ourselves, ha ha ha! Ancient Rome had the same
attitude.
You are a Liberal who pays no taxes. That means you depend on your
Only because I am on Social Security.
Post by claviger
neighbors to support you, so you don't care about high taxes. Where it
Wrong. I paid my taxes. Now I benefit from the taxes I paid.
I care about high taxes. I want higher taxes on people like you and the
Hoch brothers.
Of course, you're a Liberal. Envy is the motivating impulse in your life.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
bites you in the butt is inflation, the only way to keep a government
Inflation? What's that? I can't remember that far back.
You can't remember a lot of things.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
ponzi scheme going. JFK did not like deficit spending or inflation, so
LBJ was a dramatic change for tax policy.
And I praised JFK for that at the time. But you want to go back to 1963
and pay 91% taxes.
A phony statement. You know JFK slashed corporate tax rates.
Post by Anthony Marsh
I think that's bad for growth.
All high taxes are bad for growth in every economy on the planet.
President Kennedy and President Reagan were fully aware of that reality.
Both cut taxes which caused the US economy to surge in the right
direction.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
He very much wanted to be reelected so LBJ came up with a clever plan. He
upped Federal spending, not taxes, thereby creating the big deficit but
Are you trying to say that LBJ was smart?
LBJ had his good habits and bad habits. He did some heroic things
to save the Jews in WWII. Some historians believe he was the first
Jewish President based on his maternal ancestry.
Post by Anthony Marsh
But he also came up with Medicare and the Voing Rights Act which you oppose.
How about if you agree to let blacks vote if he gives you billions of dollars?
All citizens have the right to vote. That's what democracy is all about.
Medicare is a good thing if efficient and doesn't wreck the economy.
When the economy goes bankrupt there is no Medicare. Doctors and
technicians and nurses, et al, want a livable income.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
who cares? We owe it to ourselves, so kick the can down the road and let
our grandchildren pay it off! The US economy is now the biggest Ponzi
Sounds like a Bush plan.
Republicans are coconspirators in the Ponzi scheme. The reason why so
many middle class voters elected Trump. He's a Populist not a Republican.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
scheme on the planet. EU governments have been doing the same thing for
years and have no intention of ever paying it off. After WWII the Soviets
solved that problem in Eastern Europe by invasion and stealing natural
EU? Even before there was an EU? Why not trace it back to ancient Rome
or something?
The Fall of Rome is a classic example of how deficit spending crashed a
once robust economy. Over taxation fueled hyperinflation which then
crashed their monetary system. When it did the Roman Army would no longer
accept Roman coin and they soon drifted away. Their neighbors the
Visigoths and Ostrogoths noticed and invaded the bankrupt Roman society.
The Fall of the Roman Empire was caused by an ever increasing tax burdens,
a suicidal policy of higher taxes that eventually suffocated their whole
economic system.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
resources using slave labor.
They were not the only ones using slave labor. You like slave labor as
long as YOU are the one making billions.
We already had this discussion. Slave labor is inherently inefficient. The
Plantation System in the South would have eventually collapsed without the
Civil War. That is what happened in Brazil. They did away with slavery
with no civil war and no bloodshed. Slave labor is what the Soviet Union
resorted to and their economy crashed and millions starved to death. Did
you know Russia once produced enough to feed their population and had a
surplus to export? Under Communism the farming economy collapsed and
millions of Russians staved to death.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
JFK wanted more profits and more jobs combined with lower welfare
And what's wrong with that? That's no reason to assasssinate someone.
Did the Teamsters have something to do with the Kennedy assassination?
Didn't a wiretap record Hoffa threatening the Kennedy Brothers?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
payments. More demand for jobs meant increased wages and kept National
Maybe, not always.
President Kennedy thought so.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Debt at 10% or lower. JFK was a fiscal conservative because his father
was his economic advisor.
Don't pretend to be an economist.
Like you always do? As a music major in college were you required to take
all these required college courses: General Accounting, Cost Accounting,
Finance, Statistics, Management, Government, Economics, Money & Banking,
Fortran, and Comparative Economic Systems? Are you at all familiar with
these terms: Supply and Demand, Guns and Butter, or The Time Value of
Money? Did you know that 10% interest doubles in 7 years? Were you aware
that all currency is basically a commodity? As such the Money Supply
affects to value of currency as does the Velocity of monetary
transactions. Now there is computers money substitutes. What all this
boils down to is overspending and overtaxation can ruin any economy, and
when it does we all suffer, sometimes with catastrophic results.

"Of all the Seven Deadly Sins the most destructive is Envy."

"Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others
He who envies others does not achieve peace." - Buddha
claviger
2018-05-10 19:32:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
They were not the only ones using slave labor. You like slave labor as
long as YOU are the one making billions.
We already had this discussion. Slave labor is inherently inefficient. The
Plantation System in the South would have eventually collapsed without the
Civil War. That is what happened in Brazil. They did away with slavery
with no civil war and no bloodshed. Slave Labor is what the Soviet Union
resorted to and their economy crashed and millions starved to death. Did
you know Russia once produced enough wheat to feed the population and had
a surplus to export? Under Communism the agriculture segment of the
economy collapsed and millions of Russians staved to death.
Anthony Marsh
2018-05-11 17:52:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
They were not the only ones using slave labor. You like slave labor as
long as YOU are the one making billions.
We already had this discussion. Slave labor is inherently inefficient. The
No one disputed that. Move on.
Post by claviger
Plantation System in the South would have eventually collapsed without the
Civil War. That is what happened in Brazil. They did away with slavery
FYI. the South would NOT have collapsed. England would have propped it up.
Post by claviger
with no civil war and no bloodshed. Slave Labor is what the Soviet Union
What about England? They did away with slavery without a Civil War and
without bloodshed. The Confederacy might be the only State which went to
war to maintain slavery.
Post by claviger
resorted to and their economy crashed and millions starved to death. Did
Maybe the starvation of millions was not a consequence but the design.
Post by claviger
you know Russia once produced enough wheat to feed the population and had
a surplus to export? Under Communism the agriculture segment of the
economy collapsed and millions of Russians staved to death.
Yeah, I think we've been over this before. Production is one thing,
distribution is another.

The US produces huge amount of soy, but now wants to restrict the
distribution to starve China.

Cuba produced vast amounts of sugar cane, so the US burned their fields to
limit its distribution and hurt it financially.
claviger
2018-05-12 22:00:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
They were not the only ones using slave labor. You like slave labor as
long as YOU are the one making billions.
We already had this discussion. Slave labor is inherently inefficient. The
No one disputed that. Move on.
Post by claviger
Plantation System in the South would have eventually collapsed without the
Civil War. That is what happened in Brazil. They did away with slavery
FYI. the South would NOT have collapsed. England would have propped it up.
The history books I've read said the South had maybe a decade before the
plantation system would no longer be a viable economic model. England did
not support the South during the Civil War. They were neutral. France
may have lent support but had their own problems in Mexico.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
with no civil war and no bloodshed. Slave Labor is what the Soviet Union
What about England? They did away with slavery without a Civil War and
without bloodshed. The Confederacy might be the only State which went
to war to maintain slavery.
The Confederacy was the only State which went to war to maintain slavery
that lost. The North won their war to enslave Native Americans all the
way to the Pacific Ocean. They also enslaved the South during
Reconstruction.

The British won their war against the Zulu rebellion in South Africa and
the Boers. Belgium conquered the native tribes in the Congo.

One of the ironies of the US Civil War is the only race riots were in
Northern cities. The last Confederate General to surrender was Stand
Watie of the Cherokee Nation. The Choctaw also fought for the
Confederacy. The most unexpected statistic is the large number of Slaves
and Black Freedmen who fought for the Confederacy.

There were numerous rebellions in South America against Spain first, then
later against Mexico. Guatemala, Belize, Honduras, Nicaragua, El
Salvador, Costa Rica, and Panama once belonged to Mexico.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
resorted to and their economy crashed and millions starved to death.
Maybe the starvation of millions was not a consequence but the design.
Stalin was a native of Georgia, who had no friendly attachment to Russia.
Not sure he planned to starve the Russians but he simply didn't care. He
ordered them to hold their position against the Wehrmacht without weapons
or ammunition. Of course most of those unlucky Russians were slaughtered.
Stalin looked at it as fewer mouths to feed. Marina's mother despised
Stalin.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
you know Russia once produced enough wheat to feed the population and had
a surplus to export? Under Communism the agriculture segment of the
economy collapsed and millions of Russians staved to death.
Yeah, I think we've been over this before. Production is one thing,
distribution is another.
The Russian farmers and peasants had no use for Communism so Stalin
had them liquidated. Whole villages were completely exterminated.
likvidirovat: close out, disposed of, kill, eliminate
Post by Anthony Marsh
The US produces huge amount of soy, but now wants to restrict the
distribution to starve China.
Starve China? How long have they depended on US soy production?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Cuba produced vast amounts of sugar cane, so the US burned their
fields to limit its distribution and hurt it financially.
Sugar cane fields are burned on a regular basis every year for
agricultural reasons.
Anthony Marsh
2018-05-11 02:50:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Unfortunately for the USA he did exactly that. LBJ came in like a Lion
and went out like a whipped alleycat. He ran up huge deficits future
Is that from the Bible. I think we know what you mean by that. LBJ got
sick and tired of the war.
He was a victim of his own ambition and casualty of the Peter Principle.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
generations will need to pay off. Looks like we never will. The LBJ
presidency is the gift that keeps on giving as tax misery to the Middle
Class forever.
Which deficit did we never pay down? SHow me. You mean the Bush war
deficits?
You are still paying for the mentality LBJ created: we owe it to ourselves
so who cares how much we overspend? Or debt we create? What are we going
to do, foreclose on ourselves, ha ha ha! Ancient Rome had the same
attitude.
You are a Liberal who pays no taxes. That means you depend on your
Only because I am on Social Security.
Post by claviger
neighbors to support you, so you don't care about high taxes. Where it
Wrong. I paid my taxes. Now I benefit from the taxes I paid.
I care about high taxes. I want higher taxes on people like you and the
Hoch brothers.
Of course, you're a Liberal. Envy is the motivating impulse in your life.
Of course I am a Liberal. What's your point? You didn't address anything
I said.
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
bites you in the butt is inflation, the only way to keep a government
Inflation? What's that? I can't remember that far back.
You can't remember a lot of things.
SHOW me the inflation. You are just making up crap again. Inflation would
affect everyone. Except that if there IS infrlation, I get a COLA increase
in my Soccial Secrurity check. Bring it on, tough guy!
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
ponzi scheme going. JFK did not like deficit spending or inflation, so
LBJ was a dramatic change for tax policy.
And I praised JFK for that at the time. But you want to go back to 1963
and pay 91% taxes.
A phony statement. You know JFK slashed corporate tax rates.
WANTED to. Was killed before he could.
Why don't you make up a rightwing conspiracy theory that JFK was
assassinated because he wanted to lower taxes.
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
I think that's bad for growth.
All high taxes are bad for growth in every economy on the planet.
Duh! Did you also know that the SUN rises in the East?
Post by claviger
President Kennedy and President Reagan were fully aware of that reality.
DUH!

JFK showed it with charts.
Post by claviger
Both cut taxes which caused the US economy to surge in the right
direction.
Again, learn some history instead of shooting your mouth off. JFK was
killed BEFORE he could lower taxes.

If you like the 91% tax rate we had under JFK there is something you can
do about it. When you pay your income taxes, calulate 91% of your income
and send that amount to the IRS. Think of it as your civil duty.
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
He very much wanted to be reelected so LBJ came up with a clever plan. He
upped Federal spending, not taxes, thereby creating the big deficit but
Are you trying to say that LBJ was smart?
LBJ had his good habits and bad habits. He did some heroic things
to save the Jews in WWII. Some historians believe he was the first
Jewish President based on his maternal ancestry.
Cute, I like that. Did you get that from Caro?
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
But he also came up with Medicare and the Voing Rights Act which you oppose.
How about if you agree to let blacks vote if he gives you billions of dollars?
All citizens have the right to vote. That's what democracy is all about.
That's how it should be, but children are also citizens and they can't
vote. Blacks are also ciizens, but they have not alaways been allowed to
vote.
Post by claviger
Medicare is a good thing if efficient and doesn't wreck the economy.
Wishful thinking.
Let's just say it's a good idea in theory.
Post by claviger
When the economy goes bankrupt there is no Medicare. Doctors and
technicians and nurses, et al, want a livable income.
Right. When was the last time the economy went bankrupt? You can't just
base on how many times Trump went bankrupt.
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
who cares? We owe it to ourselves, so kick the can down the road and let
our grandchildren pay it off! The US economy is now the biggest Ponzi
Sounds like a Bush plan.
Republicans are coconspirators in the Ponzi scheme. The reason why so
many middle class voters elected Trump. He's a Populist not a Republican.
ALL Republicans?
I would not even say Trump is a Populist, I know what you mean. He is a
New York Liberal who funded the Clintons.
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
scheme on the planet. EU governments have been doing the same thing for
years and have no intention of ever paying it off. After WWII the Soviets
solved that problem in Eastern Europe by invasion and stealing natural
EU? Even before there was an EU? Why not trace it back to ancient Rome
or something?
The Fall of Rome is a classic example of how deficit spending crashed a
OMG, you want to start a new thread just about Rome? Please specify
which era.
Post by claviger
once robust economy. Over taxation fueled hyperinflation which then
crashed their monetary system. When it did the Roman Army would no longer
Do you have a book reference in mind?
Post by claviger
accept Roman coin and they soon drifted away. Their neighbors the
What did Jesus say?
Post by claviger
Visigoths and Ostrogoths noticed and invaded the bankrupt Roman society.
You think that is what motivated them? Maybe the Empire was ovextended and
couldn't defend all borders. Did you study Latin in HS? I had 4 years.
Post by claviger
The Fall of the Roman Empire was caused by an ever increasing tax burdens,
Great freaking book, horrible movie. I liked it better with Zombies.
Post by claviger
a suicidal policy of higher taxes that eventually suffocated their whole
economic system.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
resources using slave labor.
They were not the only ones using slave labor. You like slave labor as
long as YOU are the one making billions.
We already had this discussion. Slave labor is inherently inefficient. The
It inherently makes a lot of money for a few people.
Post by claviger
Plantation System in the South would have eventually collapsed without the
Civil War. That is what happened in Brazil. They did away with slavery
Interesting theory? Any [professor write about this?
Post by claviger
with no civil war and no bloodshed. Slave labor is what the Soviet Union
resorted to and their economy crashed and millions starved to death. Did
Ya think!
Post by claviger
you know Russia once produced enough to feed their population and had a
surplus to export? Under Communism the farming economy collapsed and
millions of Russians staved to death.
There's more to it than that. It's also a matter of distribution and
corruption.
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
JFK wanted more profits and more jobs combined with lower welfare
And what's wrong with that? That's no reason to assasssinate someone.
Did the Teamsters have something to do with the Kennedy assassination?
Yes, I like that. You're on a roll. Hoffa. That's why he was whacked,
because he was going to spill the beans on the JFK hit.
How did YOU know about that??
Post by claviger
Didn't a wiretap record Hoffa threatening the Kennedy Brothers?
HMM, Maybe. Or maybe he said it under his breath and the recorder did
not pick it up, but the Kennedys heard it.
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
payments. More demand for jobs meant increased wages and kept National
Maybe, not always.
President Kennedy thought so.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Debt at 10% or lower. JFK was a fiscal conservative because his father
was his economic advisor.
Don't pretend to be an economist.
Like you always do? As a music major in college were you required to take
all these required college courses: General Accounting, Cost Accounting,
Finance, Statistics, Management, Government, Economics, Money & Banking,
You weren't. Janitors are not required to take those courses.
Post by claviger
Fortran, and Comparative Economic Systems? Are you at all familiar with
these terms: Supply and Demand, Guns and Butter, or The Time Value of
Money? Did you know that 10% interest doubles in 7 years? Were you aware
Yes. Some of them show up in conspiracy books.
Post by claviger
that all currency is basically a commodity? As such the Money Supply
affects to value of currency as does the Velocity of monetary
transactions. Now there is computers money substitutes. What all this
boils down to is overspending and overtaxation can ruin any economy, and
when it does we all suffer, sometimes with catastrophic results.
"Of all the Seven Deadly Sins the most destructive is Envy."
"Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others
He who envies others does not achieve peace." - Buddha
Wise words from a wise man.
It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a
rich person to enter the kingdom of God.
claviger
2018-05-15 13:12:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Unfortunately for the USA he did exactly that. LBJ came in like a Lion
and went out like a whipped alleycat. He ran up huge deficits future
Is that from the Bible. I think we know what you mean by that. LBJ got
sick and tired of the war.
He was a victim of his own ambition and casualty of the Peter Principle.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
generations will need to pay off. Looks like we never will. The LBJ
presidency is the gift that keeps on giving as tax misery to the Middle
Class forever.
Which deficit did we never pay down? SHow me. You mean the Bush war
deficits?
You are still paying for the mentality LBJ created: we owe it to ourselves
so who cares how much we overspend? Or debt we create? What are we going
to do, foreclose on ourselves, ha ha ha! Ancient Rome had the same
attitude.
You are a Liberal who pays no taxes. That means you depend on your
Only because I am on Social Security.
Post by claviger
neighbors to support you, so you don't care about high taxes. Where it
Wrong. I paid my taxes. Now I benefit from the taxes I paid.
Supposed to be that way but Social Security is not a savings plan.
It is funded by taxing current workers.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
I care about high taxes. I want higher taxes on people like you and the
Hoch brothers.
So you're opposed to equality and in favor of punitive taxation for your
political enemies? The Hoch brothers give a ton of money to charities.
As such, they are much better US citizens than you are.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Of course, you're a Liberal. Envy is the motivating impulse in your life.
Of course I am a Liberal. What's your point? You didn't address anything
I said.
See below.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
bites you in the butt is inflation, the only way to keep a government
Inflation? What's that? I can't remember that far back.
You can't remember a lot of things.
SHOW me the inflation. You are just making up crap again. Inflation would
affect everyone. Except that if there IS infrlation, I get a COLA increase
in my Soccial Secrurity check. Bring it on, tough guy!
I have my own method of measuring inflation. Try eating at local
restaurants and compare prices from just a few years ago.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
ponzi scheme going. JFK did not like deficit spending or
inflation, so LBJ was a dramatic change for tax policy.
And I praised JFK for that at the time. But you want to go
back to 1963 and pay 91% taxes.
A phony statement. You know JFK slashed corporate tax rates.
WANTED to. Was killed before he could.
Why don't you make up a rightwing conspiracy theory that JFK
was assassinated because he wanted to lower taxes.
I believe someone already did. There is another theory the original
clique who own the Federal Reserve had both Lincoln and Kennedy
removed from office.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
I think that's bad for growth.
All high taxes are bad for growth in every economy on the planet.
Duh! Did you also know that the SUN rises in the East?
High taxes have the same effect as cavities in your teeth.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
President Kennedy and President Reagan were fully aware of that reality.
DUH!
JFK showed it with charts.
Post by claviger
Both cut taxes which caused the US economy to surge in the right
direction.
Again, learn some history instead of shooting your mouth off. JFK was
killed BEFORE he could lower taxes.
The point is he had a long-term strategy to control spending and lower
taxes. Reagan used the Kennedy blueprint with great success.
Post by Anthony Marsh
If you like the 91% tax rate we had under JFK there is something you can
do about it. When you pay your income taxes, calulate 91% of your income
and send that amount to the IRS. Think of it as your civil duty.
I like a 10% flat tax with no deductions. Various studies indicate this plan
would actually increase Federal Revenues compared to the plethora of
deductions now in place.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
He very much wanted to be reelected so LBJ came up with a clever plan. He
upped Federal spending, not taxes, thereby creating the big deficit but
Are you trying to say that LBJ was smart?
LBJ had his good habits and bad habits. He did some heroic things
to save the Jews in WWII. Some historians believe he was the first
Jewish President based on his maternal ancestry.
Cute, I like that. Did you get that from Caro?
More than one website did research on LBJ ancestry.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
But he also came up with Medicare and the Voing Rights Act which you oppose.
How about if you agree to let blacks vote if he gives you billions of dollars?
All citizens have the right to vote. That's what democracy is all about.
That's how it should be, but children are also citizens and they can't
vote.
Do you want children to vote?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Blacks are also ciizens, but they have not alaways been allowed to
vote.
That was a long time ago. Native Americans finally got the right to vote
in 1924. The last state laws denying Native Americans the right to vote
are overturned in 1948, but in some states it didn’t happen until 1962.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Medicare is a good thing if efficient and doesn't wreck the economy.
Wishful thinking.
Let's just say it's a good idea in theory.
Post by claviger
When the economy goes bankrupt there is no Medicare. Doctors and
technicians and nurses, et al, want a livable income.
Right. When was the last time the economy went bankrupt? You can't just
base on how many times Trump went bankrupt.
US Government is bakrupt right now, but keeps passing out IOUs.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
who cares? We owe it to ourselves, so kick the can down the road and let
our grandchildren pay it off! The US economy is now the biggest Ponzi
Sounds like a Bush plan.
Republicans are coconspirators in the Ponzi scheme. The reason why so
many middle class voters elected Trump. He's a Populist not a Republican.
ALL Republicans?
I would not even say Trump is a Populist, I know what you mean. He is a
New York Liberal who funded the Clintons.
Trump is hard to categorize. One might say he's a Realpublican vs Ponzicrats.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
scheme on the planet. EU governments have been doing the same thing for
years and have no intention of ever paying it off. After WWII the Soviets
solved that problem in Eastern Europe by invasion and stealing natural
EU? Even before there was an EU? Why not trace it back to ancient Rome
or something?
The Fall of Rome is a classic example of how deficit spending crashed a
OMG, you want to start a new thread just about Rome? Please specify
which era.
Post by claviger
once robust economy. Over taxation fueled hyperinflation which then
crashed their monetary system. When it did the Roman Army would no longer
Do you have a book reference in mind?
Most well known: The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire,
by Edward Gibbon.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
accept Roman coin and they soon drifted away. Their neighbors the
What did Jesus say?
We already discussed that.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Visigoths and Ostrogoths noticed and invaded the bankrupt Roman society.
You think that is what motivated them? Maybe the Empire was ovextended and
couldn't defend all borders. Did you study Latin in HS? I had 4 years.
No. Wished I had.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
The Fall of the Roman Empire was caused by an ever increasing tax burdens,
Great freaking book, horrible movie. I liked it better with Zombies.
Post by claviger
a suicidal policy of higher taxes that eventually suffocated their whole
economic system.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
resources using slave labor.
They were not the only ones using slave labor. You like slave labor as
long as YOU are the one making billions.
We already had this discussion. Slave labor is inherently inefficient. The
It inherently makes a lot of money for a few people.
Exactly. Historians estimate only 20% of the white population of the South
owned slaves. Some historians claim it was only 10%. So the vast majority
of white Southerners were mostly small farmers. After slavery many white
sharecroppers became serfs for decades.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Plantation System in the South would have eventually collapsed without the
Civil War. That is what happened in Brazil. They did away with slavery
Interesting theory? Any professor write about this?
A few have and some historians are aware of this fact. No one talks
about it a lot because it does not reflect well on US History.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
with no civil war and no bloodshed. Slave labor is what the Soviet Union
resorted to and their economy crashed and millions starved to death. Did
Ya think!
Post by claviger
you know Russia once produced enough to feed their population and had a
surplus to export? Under Communism the farming economy collapsed and
millions of Russians staved to death.
There's more to it than that. It's also a matter of distribution and
corruption.
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
JFK wanted more profits and more jobs combined with lower welfare
And what's wrong with that? That's no reason to assasssinate someone.
Did the Teamsters have something to do with the Kennedy assassination?
Yes, I like that. You're on a roll. Hoffa. That's why he was whacked,
because he was going to spill the beans on the JFK hit.
How did YOU know about that??
I thought everyone knew about that.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Didn't a wiretap record Hoffa threatening the Kennedy Brothers?
HMM, Maybe. Or maybe he said it under his breath and the recorder did
not pick it up, but the Kennedys heard it.
Wiretaps.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
payments. More demand for jobs meant increased wages and kept National
Maybe, not always.
President Kennedy thought so.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Debt at 10% or lower. JFK was a fiscal conservative because his father
was his economic advisor.
Don't pretend to be an economist.
Like you always do? As a music major in college were you required to take
all these required college courses: General Accounting, Cost Accounting,
Finance, Statistics, Management, Government, Economics, Money & Banking,
You weren't. Janitors are not required to take those courses.
So you worked your way through college as a janitor? For once I'm impressed!
Way to go!!
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Fortran, and Comparative Economic Systems? Are you at all familiar with
these terms: Supply and Demand, Guns and Butter, or The Time Value of
Money? Did you know that 10% interest doubles in 7 years? Were you aware
Yes. Some of them show up in conspiracy books.
Which books?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
that all currency is basically a commodity? As such the Money Supply
affects to value of currency as does the Velocity of monetary
transactions. Now there is computers money substitutes. What all this
boils down to is overspending and overtaxation can ruin any economy, and
when it does we all suffer, sometimes with catastrophic results.
"Of all the Seven Deadly Sins the most destructive is Envy."
"Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others
He who envies others does not achieve peace." - Buddha
Wise words from a wise man.
It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a
rich person to enter the kingdom of God.
Do you know what "Eye of the Needle" meant in Biblical times?
Anthony Marsh
2018-05-17 01:58:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Unfortunately for the USA he did exactly that. LBJ came in like a Lion
and went out like a whipped alleycat. He ran up huge deficits future
Is that from the Bible. I think we know what you mean by that. LBJ got
sick and tired of the war.
He was a victim of his own ambition and casualty of the Peter Principle.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
generations will need to pay off. Looks like we never will. The LBJ
presidency is the gift that keeps on giving as tax misery to the Middle
Class forever.
Which deficit did we never pay down? SHow me. You mean the Bush war
deficits?
You are still paying for the mentality LBJ created: we owe it to ourselves
so who cares how much we overspend? Or debt we create? What are we going
to do, foreclose on ourselves, ha ha ha! Ancient Rome had the same
attitude.
You are a Liberal who pays no taxes. That means you depend on your
Only because I am on Social Security.
Post by claviger
neighbors to support you, so you don't care about high taxes. Where it
Wrong. I paid my taxes. Now I benefit from the taxes I paid.
Supposed to be that way but Social Security is not a savings plan.
It is funded by taxing current workers.
It's insurance, like a life insurance policy or an IRA.
My life insurance is also paid by current workers. I did not put $25,000
cash into it.
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
I care about high taxes. I want higher taxes on people like you and the
Hoch brothers.
So you're opposed to equality and in favor of punitive taxation for your
political enemies? The Hoch brothers give a ton of money to charities.
As such, they are much better US citizens than you are.
No, just people like you and the Koch brothers. For YOU I suggested that
you VOLUNTARILY pay 91%.
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Of course, you're a Liberal. Envy is the motivating impulse in your life.
Of course I am a Liberal. What's your point? You didn't address anything
I said.
See below.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
bites you in the butt is inflation, the only way to keep a government
Inflation? What's that? I can't remember that far back.
You can't remember a lot of things.
SHOW me the inflation. You are just making up crap again. Inflation would
affect everyone. Except that if there IS infrlation, I get a COLA increase
in my Soccial Secrurity check. Bring it on, tough guy!
I have my own method of measuring inflation. Try eating at local
restaurants and compare prices from just a few years ago.
Sure, you can eat and and sleep at McDonalds. Is that the type of country
you want? Ever hear of the Great Depression? That's what you want while
the Koch Brothers have all the money?

And why should I eat at a local restaurant when I get my meals for free?
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
ponzi scheme going. JFK did not like deficit spending or
inflation, so LBJ was a dramatic change for tax policy.
And I praised JFK for that at the time. But you want to go
back to 1963 and pay 91% taxes.
A phony statement. You know JFK slashed corporate tax rates.
WANTED to. Was killed before he could.
Why don't you make up a rightwing conspiracy theory that JFK
was assassinated because he wanted to lower taxes.
I believe someone already did. There is another theory the original
Is that a book? Do you remember the title?
Post by claviger
clique who own the Federal Reserve had both Lincoln and Kennedy
removed from office.
I remember that theory. I've talked to kooks who believe JFK was killed by
the Federal Reserve. I can't remember who added in Lincoln. Was there even
a Federal Reserve then? If you're going to make up a kook theory, watch
out for anachronisms. Don't claim that the shooting in Dealey Plaza was
coordinated by cell phone.
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
I think that's bad for growth.
All high taxes are bad for growth in every economy on the planet.
Duh! Did you also know that the SUN rises in the East?
High taxes have the same effect as cavities in your teeth.
What teeth?
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
President Kennedy and President Reagan were fully aware of that reality.
DUH!
JFK showed it with charts.
Post by claviger
Both cut taxes which caused the US economy to surge in the right
direction.
Again, learn some history instead of shooting your mouth off. JFK was
killed BEFORE he could lower taxes.
The point is he had a long-term strategy to control spending and lower
taxes. Reagan used the Kennedy blueprint with great success.
The point is that Reagan had nothing to do with JFK. Fascism and
Liberalism are polar opposites.
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
If you like the 91% tax rate we had under JFK there is something you can
do about it. When you pay your income taxes, calulate 91% of your income
and send that amount to the IRS. Think of it as your civil duty.
I like a 10% flat tax with no deductions. Various studies indicate this plan
Sure, I like it too. No chance of getting it passed.
Post by claviger
would actually increase Federal Revenues compared to the plethora of
deductions now in place.
Maybe people not cheating on their taxes and hiding money in foreign
banks would actually increase federal revenues. Just sayin.
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
He very much wanted to be reelected so LBJ came up with a clever plan. He
upped Federal spending, not taxes, thereby creating the big deficit but
Are you trying to say that LBJ was smart?
LBJ had his good habits and bad habits. He did some heroic things
to save the Jews in WWII. Some historians believe he was the first
Jewish President based on his maternal ancestry.
Cute, I like that. Did you get that from Caro?
More than one website did research on LBJ ancestry.
SHOW me which one you like the best.
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
But he also came up with Medicare and the Voing Rights Act which you oppose.
How about if you agree to let blacks vote if he gives you billions of dollars?
All citizens have the right to vote. That's what democracy is all about.
That's how it should be, but children are also citizens and they can't
vote.
Do you want children to vote?
Yes. At least they could pass the literacy test.
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Blacks are also ciizens, but they have not alaways been allowed to
vote.
That was a long time ago. Native Americans finally got the right to vote
Not that long ago. 2016.
Post by claviger
in 1924. The last state laws denying Native Americans the right to vote
are overturned in 1948, but in some states it didn???t happen until 1962.
Case in point. Racism is not just against blacks.
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Medicare is a good thing if efficient and doesn't wreck the economy.
Wishful thinking.
Let's just say it's a good idea in theory.
Post by claviger
When the economy goes bankrupt there is no Medicare. Doctors and
technicians and nurses, et al, want a livable income.
Right. When was the last time the economy went bankrupt? You can't just
base on how many times Trump went bankrupt.
US Government is bakrupt right now, but keeps passing out IOUs.
You say Trump had bankrupted the economy, but you still vote for him
anyway?
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
who cares? We owe it to ourselves, so kick the can down the road and let
our grandchildren pay it off! The US economy is now the biggest Ponzi
Sounds like a Bush plan.
Republicans are coconspirators in the Ponzi scheme. The reason why so
many middle class voters elected Trump. He's a Populist not a Republican.
ALL Republicans?
I would not even say Trump is a Populist, I know what you mean. He is a
New York Liberal who funded the Clintons.
Trump is hard to categorize. One might say he's a Realpublican vs Ponzicrats.
WHen was the last time there was no national debt and who was President
then? Maybe we should elect one of he relatives to carry on the family
tradition. Like the Adams family.
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
scheme on the planet. EU governments have been doing the same thing for
years and have no intention of ever paying it off. After WWII the Soviets
solved that problem in Eastern Europe by invasion and stealing natural
EU? Even before there was an EU? Why not trace it back to ancient Rome
or something?
The Fall of Rome is a classic example of how deficit spending crashed a
OMG, you want to start a new thread just about Rome? Please specify
which era.
Post by claviger
once robust economy. Over taxation fueled hyperinflation which then
crashed their monetary system. When it did the Roman Army would no longer
Do you have a book reference in mind?
Most well known: The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire,
by Edward Gibbon.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
accept Roman coin and they soon drifted away. Their neighbors the
What did Jesus say?
We already discussed that.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Visigoths and Ostrogoths noticed and invaded the bankrupt Roman society.
You think that is what motivated them? Maybe the Empire was ovextended and
couldn't defend all borders. Did you study Latin in HS? I had 4 years.
No. Wished I had.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
The Fall of the Roman Empire was caused by an ever increasing tax burdens,
Great freaking book, horrible movie. I liked it better with Zombies.
Post by claviger
a suicidal policy of higher taxes that eventually suffocated their whole
economic system.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
resources using slave labor.
They were not the only ones using slave labor. You like slave labor as
long as YOU are the one making billions.
We already had this discussion. Slave labor is inherently inefficient. The
It inherently makes a lot of money for a few people.
Exactly. Historians estimate only 20% of the white population of the South
owned slaves. Some historians claim it was only 10%. So the vast majority
of white Southerners were mostly small farmers. After slavery many white
sharecroppers became serfs for decades.
And many slaves stayed on, loyal to their masters.
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Plantation System in the South would have eventually collapsed without the
Civil War. That is what happened in Brazil. They did away with slavery
Interesting theory? Any professor write about this?
A few have and some historians are aware of this fact. No one talks
about it a lot because it does not reflect well on US History.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
with no civil war and no bloodshed. Slave labor is what the Soviet Union
resorted to and their economy crashed and millions starved to death. Did
Ya think!
Post by claviger
you know Russia once produced enough to feed their population and had a
surplus to export? Under Communism the farming economy collapsed and
millions of Russians staved to death.
There's more to it than that. It's also a matter of distribution and
corruption.
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
JFK wanted more profits and more jobs combined with lower welfare
And what's wrong with that? That's no reason to assasssinate someone.
Did the Teamsters have something to do with the Kennedy assassination?
Yes, I like that. You're on a roll. Hoffa. That's why he was whacked,
because he was going to spill the beans on the JFK hit.
How did YOU know about that??
I thought everyone knew about that.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Didn't a wiretap record Hoffa threatening the Kennedy Brothers?
HMM, Maybe. Or maybe he said it under his breath and the recorder did
not pick it up, but the Kennedys heard it.
Wiretaps.
In testimony.
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
payments. More demand for jobs meant increased wages and kept National
Maybe, not always.
President Kennedy thought so.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Debt at 10% or lower. JFK was a fiscal conservative because his father
was his economic advisor.
Don't pretend to be an economist.
Like you always do? As a music major in college were you required to take
all these required college courses: General Accounting, Cost Accounting,
Finance, Statistics, Management, Government, Economics, Money & Banking,
You weren't. Janitors are not required to take those courses.
So you worked your way through college as a janitor? For once I'm impressed!
Way to go!!
Well, I realize that you know nothing about college, but the way it
usually works is you are in school starting in Fall and have vacation in
Summer. So in summer you get a summer job.
One summer job I had was very convenient as the Life guard in the
apartment complex where my parents lived.
Another was as a dish washer at the restaurant next to the apartment
complex where my parents lived. But eventually I needed more income so
learned to drive a truck and was a mover and delivered appliances.
That was when I got a car to drive to college and work.
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Fortran, and Comparative Economic Systems? Are you at all familiar with
these terms: Supply and Demand, Guns and Butter, or The Time Value of
Money? Did you know that 10% interest doubles in 7 years? Were you aware
Yes. Some of them show up in conspiracy books.
Which books?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
that all currency is basically a commodity? As such the Money Supply
affects to value of currency as does the Velocity of monetary
transactions. Now there is computers money substitutes. What all this
boils down to is overspending and overtaxation can ruin any economy, and
when it does we all suffer, sometimes with catastrophic results.
"Of all the Seven Deadly Sins the most destructive is Envy."
"Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others
He who envies others does not achieve peace." - Buddha
Wise words from a wise man.
It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a
rich person to enter the kingdom of God.
Do you know what "Eye of the Needle" meant in Biblical times?
claviger
2018-05-21 02:35:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Unfortunately for the USA he did exactly that. LBJ came in like a Lion
and went out like a whipped alleycat. He ran up huge deficits future
Is that from the Bible. I think we know what you mean by that. LBJ got
sick and tired of the war.
He was a victim of his own ambition and casualty of the Peter Principle.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
generations will need to pay off. Looks like we never will. The LBJ
presidency is the gift that keeps on giving as tax misery to the Middle
Class forever.
Which deficit did we never pay down? SHow me. You mean the Bush war
deficits?
You are still paying for the mentality LBJ created: we owe it to ourselves
so who cares how much we overspend? Or debt we create? What are we going
to do, foreclose on ourselves, ha ha ha! Ancient Rome had the same
attitude.
You are a Liberal who pays no taxes. That means you depend on your
Only because I am on Social Security.
Post by claviger
neighbors to support you, so you don't care about high taxes. Where it
Wrong. I paid my taxes. Now I benefit from the taxes I paid.
Supposed to be that way but Social Security is not a savings plan.
It is funded by taxing current workers.
It's insurance, like a life insurance policy or an IRA.
My life insurance is also paid by current workers.
I did not put $25,000 cash into it.
So hard working tax payers are providing you life insurance too.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
I care about high taxes. I want higher taxes on people like you and the
Hoch brothers.
So you're opposed to equality and in favor of punitive taxation for your
political enemies? The Hoch brothers give a ton of money to charities.
As such, they are much better US citizens than you are.
No, just people like you and the Koch brothers. For YOU I suggested that
you VOLUNTARILY pay 91%.
That brings up a good point. No tax payer should ever pay more
than 10% in taxes. Liberals always want to spend the OPM, "other
people's money." Nothing in the Constitution prevents Liberals
from paying 50% or 91% of their own money to help the poor.

If the moral thing to do why do you need the Federal Government
to force you to do it? You as an arrogant condescending Liberal
should have been paying 50% all the years you had a job, but you
didn't do that did you? You want someone else to do it but not
yourself. How very Liberal of you.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Of course, you're a Liberal. Envy is the motivating impulse in your life.
Of course I am a Liberal. What's your point? You didn't address
anything I said.
See below.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
bites you in the butt is inflation, the only way to keep a government
Inflation? What's that? I can't remember that far back.
You can't remember a lot of things.
SHOW me the inflation. You are just making up crap again. Inflation would
affect everyone. Except that if there IS infrlation, I get a COLA increase
in my Soccial Secrurity check. Bring it on, tough guy!
I have my own method of measuring inflation. Try eating at local
restaurants and compare prices from just a few years ago.
Sure, you can eat and and sleep at McDonalds. Is that the type of country
you want?
McDonalds provides affordable food for everyone. When I was in college
we could buy 4 little burgers for a dollar.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Ever hear of the Great Depression?
My mother grew up dirt poor during "The Depression" as
she called it. She was part Choctaw and her father was a
day worker who went from farm to ranch looking for work
everyday.

The amazing thing, her family had a lot of pride and did not
expect the government to take care of them. They would
accept charity from friends and neighbors only if they could
work in return for the food and clothing donated by those
generous people. My mother said the only time she wore
shoes was to church or on a cold day to school. She never
felt sorry for herself because most people they knew were
in same situation.

In those days there was good envy and bad envy. Good envy
was "We want to work hard for everything we earn and have
some nice clothes and a car one day." Bad envy was jealousy
of other people doing well. That kind of envy was not tolerated
in her family, who considered jealousy a sickness they wanted
nothing to do with.
Post by Anthony Marsh
That's what you want while the Koch Brothers have all the money?
Actually the Federal Reserve has all the money because they print
all the money. Somehow or another it all comes back to them.
Now there is pretend money like Bitcoin.

I don't care how much money the Koch Brothers have, who worked
hard and took risks to earn all that money, the kind of risk takers
that made America a great place to live and work with the freedom
to spend their money anyway they please. That concept is called
Freedom of Choice. I know you think that means Abortion, but
Americans have Freedom of Choice everyday in every way.
Post by Anthony Marsh
And why should I eat at a local restaurant when I get my meals for free?
If the free food is healthy and nutritious then no need for dining
out unless there is local restaurant who needs your support.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Why don't you make up a rightwing conspiracy theory that JFK
was assassinated because he wanted to lower taxes.
I believe someone already did. There is another theory the original
Is that a book? Do you remember the title?
Not sure it was a book or internet article. The idea was JFK was
assassinated for issuing US Government currency in competition
with the Fed.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
clique who own the Federal Reserve had both Lincoln and
Kennedy removed from office.
I remember that theory. I've talked to kooks who believe JFK was killed by
the Federal Reserve. I can't remember who added in Lincoln. Was there even
a Federal Reserve then? If you're going to make up a kook theory, watch
out for anachronisms. Don't claim that the shooting in Dealey Plaza was
coordinated by cell phone.
To finance "Lincoln's War" as one author put it, Lincoln had to borrow
heavily from wealthy Northern industrialists. Keep in mind Lincoln
was born in Kentucky and grew up in Illinois, so he was not from the
New England blue bloods or New York industrialists. The fact is they
considered him a country bumpkin.

One researcher claims the same families who funded Lincoln's War
invested the Federal Reserve and were furious with JFK for printing
US Gov Silver Certificates.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
I think that's bad for growth.
All high taxes are bad for growth in every economy on the planet.
Duh! Did you also know that the SUN rises in the East?
High taxes have the same effect as cavities in your teeth.
What teeth?
So high taxes rotted your teeth out. You are another tragic victim
of confiscatory taxation.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Again, learn some history instead of shooting your mouth off. JFK was
killed BEFORE he could lower taxes.
The point is he had a long-term strategy to control spending and lower
taxes. Reagan used the Kennedy blueprint with great success.
The point is that Reagan had nothing to do with JFK.
However JFK had something to do with the Reagan Revolution.
Remember when President Reagan invited the Kennedy family
to the White House?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Fascism and Liberalism are polar opposites.
Fascists and Nazis were Liberals of their era. Many Conservatives
wanted nothing to do with them.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
If you like the 91% tax rate we had under JFK there is something you can
do about it. When you pay your income taxes, calulate 91% of your income
and send that amount to the IRS. Think of it as your civil duty
I like a 10% flat tax with no deductions. Various studies indicate this plan
Sure, I like it too. No chance of getting it passed.
Too many thieves in Babylon on the Potomac. By the way, whatever
happened to the Native American Tribe the river is named for?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
would actually increase Federal Revenues compared to the plethora of
deductions now in place.
Maybe people not cheating on their taxes and hiding money in foreign
banks would actually increase federal revenues. Just sayin.
My understanding is many of those wealthy people are Movie Stars
who talk Liberal but hide their money offshore.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
LBJ had his good habits and bad habits. He did some heroic things
to save the Jews in WWII. Some historians believe he was the first
Jewish President based on his maternal ancestry.
Cute, I like that. Did you get that from Caro?
More than one website did research on LBJ ancestry.
SHOW me which one you like the best.
OK.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
All citizens have the right to vote. That's what democracy is all about.
That's how it should be, but children are also citizens and they can't
vote.
Do you want children to vote?
Yes. At least they could pass the literacy test.
Maybe, but can they color between the lines?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Blacks are also ciizens, but they have not alaways been allowed to
vote.
That was a long time ago. Native Americans finally got the right to vote
Not that long ago. 2016.
Post by claviger
in 1924. The last state laws denying Native Americans the right to vote
are overturned in 1948, but in some states it didn???t happen until 1962.
Case in point. Racism is not just against blacks.
Racism is a condescending attitude toward another race
of people, no matter what their skin color.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Medicare is a good thing if efficient and doesn't wreck the economy.
Wishful thinking.
Let's just say it's a good idea in theory.
Post by claviger
When the economy goes bankrupt there is no Medicare. Doctors and
technicians and nurses, et al, want a livable income.
Right. When was the last time the economy went bankrupt? You can't just
base on how many times Trump went bankrupt.
US Government is bakrupt right now, but keeps passing out IOUs.
You say Trump had bankrupted the economy, but you still vote for him
anyway?
It was bankrupt when he got there thanks to all the thieves in
Washington DC who have been sucking the national treasury
dry for decades.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
who cares? We owe it to ourselves, so kick the can down the road and let
our grandchildren pay it off! The US economy is now the biggest Ponzi
Sounds like a Bush plan.
Republicans are coconspirators in the Ponzi scheme. The reason why so
many middle class voters elected Trump. He's a Populist not a Republican.
ALL Republicans?
I would not even say Trump is a Populist, I know what you mean. He is a
New York Liberal who funded the Clintons.
Trump is hard to categorize. One might say he's a Realpublican vs Ponzicrats.
WHen was the last time there was no national debt and who was President
then? Maybe we should elect one of he relatives to carry on the family tradition.
Like the Adams family.
Bill Clinton second term with a Republican Congress
had a balanced budget which proves it can be done.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
We already had this discussion. Slave labor is inherently inefficient.
It inherently makes a lot of money for a few people.
Exactly. Historians estimate only 20% of the white population of the South
owned slaves. Some historians claim it was only 10%. So the vast majority
of white Southerners were mostly small farmers. After slavery many white
sharecroppers became serfs for decades.
And many slaves stayed on, loyal to their masters.
Yes they did and some even inherited part of the plantation they
worked on. The story no one talks about is former slaves who did
well as free men, who bought land and slaves to work it.
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
You weren't. Janitors are not required to take those courses.
So you worked your way through college as a janitor? For once
I'm impressed! Way to go!!
Well, I realize that you know nothing about college, but the way it
usually works is you are in school starting in Fall and have vacation
in Summer. So in summer you get a summer job.
One summer job I had was very convenient as the Life guard in the
apartment complex where my parents lived.
Another was as a dish washer at the restaurant next to the apartment
complex where my parents lived. But eventually I needed more income
so learned to drive a truck and was a mover and delivered appliances.
That was when I got a car to drive to college and work.
Gosh, you sound like a middle class kind of guy. How the heck did you
veer off the path of righteousness and become a whiny Liberal?
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by claviger
"Of all the Seven Deadly Sins the most destructive is Envy."
"Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others
He who envies others does not achieve peace." - Buddha
Wise words from a wise man.
It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a
rich person to enter the kingdom of God.
Do you know what "Eye of the Needle" meant in Biblical times?
You didn't answer this question.

mainframetech
2018-04-26 00:58:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?
It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done. Is there any
reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to Oswald's curtain
rods. What reason would he have to suspect there was more to it than that.
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route. Of all the people they were keeping tabs on
in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, what would have made Oswald stand out more
than any of the others prior to 11/22/63.
How about the knowledge that he visited the Soviet Embassy in MC where he
met the reported head of KGB assassinations in the Western Hemisphere?
It was already known he was a communist sympathizer and the trip to MC
would have fit right in with that. That's the reason he was a person of
interest to both the FBI and the CIA. Did they know he met with the KGB
head of assassinations? Oswald was already an attempted assassin although
nobody but Marina knew that then. He may have had other targets in mind
when he met with the KGB. Could anyone at the time have known that through
twists of fate, Oswald was going to be dealt a golden opportunity to assassinate
JFK. It's easy to connect the dots now. Not so easy prior to 11/22/63.
Hands Off Cuba Advertisement from Oswald's Home
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth49452/
[Photograph of 'Hands Off Cuba' Flyer]
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth346593/
Stavis “Steve” Ellis
Solo Motorcycle Officer
Dallas Police Department
___________________________________________________________________________
After the assassination, the FBI did their investigative work on the curb
where I had seen the shot and cut off the section to analyze. However,
they cut off the wrong section. We later found the place where it hit.
Sergeant Harkness knows. He was a three-wheel sergeant who worked
traffic downtown.
He first became involved in all this several months earlier when one
of his three-wheelers apparently saw Oswald passing out pamphlets
about Cuba, which was illegal in the city of Dallas without a permit.
Harkness was called in to investigate and, of course, Harkness was also
in the downtown area when all this happened with the President.
___________________________________________________________________________
http://www.kenrahn.com/JFK/History/The_deed/Sneed/Ellis.html
Make a note of the bullet that hit the curb. There wee many bullets
flying around that day.

Chris
claviger
2018-04-26 14:40:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?
It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done. Is there any
reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to Oswald's curtain
rods. What reason would he have to suspect there was more to it than that.
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route. Of all the people they were keeping tabs on
in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, what would have made Oswald stand out more
than any of the others prior to 11/22/63.
How about the knowledge that he visited the Soviet Embassy in MC where he
met the reported head of KGB assassinations in the Western Hemisphere?
It was already known he was a communist sympathizer and the trip to MC
would have fit right in with that. That's the reason he was a person of
interest to both the FBI and the CIA. Did they know he met with the KGB
head of assassinations? Oswald was already an attempted assassin although
nobody but Marina knew that then. He may have had other targets in mind
when he met with the KGB. Could anyone at the time have known that through
twists of fate, Oswald was going to be dealt a golden opportunity to assassinate
JFK. It's easy to connect the dots now. Not so easy prior to 11/22/63.
Hands Off Cuba Advertisement from Oswald's Home
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth49452/
[Photograph of 'Hands Off Cuba' Flyer]
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth346593/
Judging from the first photo LHO may have cut off the bottom part
that had the New Orleans address.
Anthony Marsh
2018-04-27 11:51:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?
It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done. Is there any
reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to Oswald's curtain
rods. What reason would he have to suspect there was more to it than that.
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route. Of all the people they were keeping tabs on
in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, what would have made Oswald stand out more
than any of the others prior to 11/22/63.
How about the knowledge that he visited the Soviet Embassy in MC where he
met the reported head of KGB assassinations in the Western Hemisphere?
It was already known he was a communist sympathizer and the trip to MC
would have fit right in with that. That's the reason he was a person of
interest to both the FBI and the CIA. Did they know he met with the KGB
head of assassinations? Oswald was already an attempted assassin although
nobody but Marina knew that then. He may have had other targets in mind
when he met with the KGB. Could anyone at the time have known that through
twists of fate, Oswald was going to be dealt a golden opportunity to assassinate
JFK. It's easy to connect the dots now. Not so easy prior to 11/22/63.
Hands Off Cuba Advertisement from Oswald's Home
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth49452/
[Photograph of 'Hands Off Cuba' Flyer]
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth346593/
Judging from the first photo LHO may have cut off the bottom part
that had the New Orleans address.
If I remember correctly, HIS chapter only covered New Orleans, not Dallas.
Anthony Marsh
2018-04-26 14:40:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
Post by bigdog
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?
It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done. Is there any
reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to Oswald's curtain
rods. What reason would he have to suspect there was more to it than that.
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route. Of all the people they were keeping tabs on
in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, what would have made Oswald stand out more
than any of the others prior to 11/22/63.
How about the knowledge that he visited the Soviet Embassy in MC where he
met the reported head of KGB assassinations in the Western Hemisphere?
It was already known he was a communist sympathizer and the trip to MC
would have fit right in with that. That's the reason he was a person of
interest to both the FBI and the CIA. Did they know he met with the KGB
head of assassinations? Oswald was already an attempted assassin although
nobody but Marina knew that then. He may have had other targets in mind
when he met with the KGB. Could anyone at the time have known that through
twists of fate, Oswald was going to be dealt a golden opportunity to assassinate
JFK. It's easy to connect the dots now. Not so easy prior to 11/22/63.
Hands Off Cuba Advertisement from Oswald's Home
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth49452/
[Photograph of 'Hands Off Cuba' Flyer]
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth346593/
Stavis ???Steve??? Ellis
Solo Motorcycle Officer
Dallas Police Department
___________________________________________________________________________
After the assassination, the FBI did their investigative work on the curb
where I had seen the shot and cut off the section to analyze. However,
they cut off the wrong section. We later found the place where it hit.
Sergeant Harkness knows. He was a three-wheel sergeant who worked
traffic downtown.
He first became involved in all this several months earlier when one
of his three-wheelers apparently saw Oswald passing out pamphlets
about Cuba, which was illegal in the city of Dallas without a permit.
Harkness was called in to investigate and, of course, Harkness was also
in the downtown area when all this happened with the President.
___________________________________________________________________________
http://www.kenrahn.com/JFK/History/The_deed/Sneed/Ellis.html
Cute, but we have the photograph showing the gouge taken that day. Are you
saying there were multiple marks on the curb everywhere. The piece they
cut out and analyzed showed lead with low levels of antimony in it. Talk
to Ken.

BTW, if you were officially part of the cover-up team you would know that
one of your buddies already dismissing the shot theory by saying that the
mark was left by a wheel weight scraping the curb. You're simply not
trying hard enough to get into the club.
Steve M. Galbraith
2018-04-25 22:01:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by bigdog
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?
It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done. Is there any
reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to Oswald's curtain
rods. What reason would he have to suspect there was more to it than that.
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route. Of all the people they were keeping tabs on
in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, what would have made Oswald stand out more
than any of the others prior to 11/22/63.
How about the knowledge that he visited the Soviet Embassy in MC where he
met the reported head of KGB assassinations in the Western Hemisphere?
It was already known he was a communist sympathizer and the trip to MC
would have fit right in with that. That's the reason he was a person of
interest to both the FBI and the CIA. Did they know he met with the KGB
head of assassinations? Oswald was already an attempted assassin although
nobody but Marina knew that then. He may have had other targets in mind
when he met with the KGB. Could anyone at the time have known that through
twists of fate, Oswald was going to be dealt a golden opportunity to
assassinate JFK. It's easy to connect the dots now. Not so easy prior to
11/22/63.
Hosty was told that he met with Kostikov but he believed, incorrectly,
that Kostikov was just an embassy functionary. He didn't know, like most
agents did, that Soviet KGB agents often did embassy task. Oswald
mentioned meeting Kostikov (Comrade Kostin) in the letter he sent to the
Soviet Embassy in Washington that was intercepted by the FBI.

But both the FBI and CIA believed based on a double agent ("Tumbleweed", a
German citizen by the name of Guenter Schulz) that the FBI had that
Kostikov was in charge of "wet operations" in the Western Hemisphere.

Here's more details: https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/cia/russholmes/pdf/104-10436-10025.pdf

Hosty mentions in his book that after the assassination he heard
Kostikov's name being mentioned and he was curious as to why. And Sorrels
is quoted in the Bugliosi book as saying that if the SS intelligence
division had known about Oswald that they, the SS, would have picked
Oswald up. I don't believe that but that's what he said.

Oswald was not just some ordinary crank. At the very least he warranted a
face-to-face meeting with someone.
Anthony Marsh
2018-04-27 11:47:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by bigdog
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?
It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done. Is there any
reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to Oswald's curtain
rods. What reason would he have to suspect there was more to it than that.
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route. Of all the people they were keeping tabs on
in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, what would have made Oswald stand out more
than any of the others prior to 11/22/63.
How about the knowledge that he visited the Soviet Embassy in MC where he
met the reported head of KGB assassinations in the Western Hemisphere?
It was already known he was a communist sympathizer and the trip to MC
would have fit right in with that. That's the reason he was a person of
interest to both the FBI and the CIA. Did they know he met with the KGB
head of assassinations? Oswald was already an attempted assassin although
nobody but Marina knew that then. He may have had other targets in mind
when he met with the KGB. Could anyone at the time have known that through
twists of fate, Oswald was going to be dealt a golden opportunity to
assassinate JFK. It's easy to connect the dots now. Not so easy prior to
11/22/63.
Hosty was told that he met with Kostikov but he believed, incorrectly,
that Kostikov was just an embassy functionary. He didn't know, like most
agents did, that Soviet KGB agents often did embassy task. Oswald
mentioned meeting Kostikov (Comrade Kostin) in the letter he sent to the
Soviet Embassy in Washington that was intercepted by the FBI.
But both the FBI and CIA believed based on a double agent ("Tumbleweed", a
German citizen by the name of Guenter Schulz) that the FBI had that
Kostikov was in charge of "wet operations" in the Western Hemisphere.
Here's more details: https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/cia/russholmes/pdf/104-10436-10025.pdf
Hosty mentions in his book that after the assassination he heard
Kostikov's name being mentioned and he was curious as to why. And Sorrels
is quoted in the Bugliosi book as saying that if the SS intelligence
division had known about Oswald that they, the SS, would have picked
Oswald up. I don't believe that but that's what he said.
Oswald was not just some ordinary crank. At the very least he warranted a
face-to-face meeting with someone.
He did have one, with the KGB.
They were worried about him.
Anthony Marsh
2018-04-25 22:20:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by bigdog
Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?
It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done. Is there any
reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to Oswald's curtain
rods. What reason would he have to suspect there was more to it than that.
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route. Of all the people they were keeping tabs on
in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, what would have made Oswald stand out more
than any of the others prior to 11/22/63.
How about the knowledge that he visited the Soviet Embassy in MC where he
met the reported head of KGB assassinations in the Western Hemisphere?
It was already known he was a communist sympathizer and the trip to MC
would have fit right in with that. That's the reason he was a person of
Why MC? Unless they KNEW where he was going in MC.
Post by bigdog
interest to both the FBI and the CIA. Did they know he met with the KGB
head of assassinations? Oswald was already an attempted assassin although
Sources and Methods.
Post by bigdog
nobody but Marina knew that then. He may have had other targets in mind
Maybe GeM guessed it.
Post by bigdog
when he met with the KGB. Could anyone at the time have known that through
twists of fate, Oswald was going to be dealt a golden opportunity to
assassinate JFK. It's easy to connect the dots now. Not so easy prior to
11/22/63.
Anthony Marsh
2018-04-24 01:07:33 UTC
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Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?
It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done. Is there any
reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to Oswald's curtain
rods. What reason would he have to suspect there was more to it than that.
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route. Of all the people they were keeping tabs on
in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, what would have made Oswald stand out more
than any of the others prior to 11/22/63.
How about the knowledge that he visited the Soviet Embassy in MC where he
met the reported head of KGB assassinations in the Western Hemisphere?
Who knew about that? Just Angleton? And he's not ever going to share
something like that with the FBI. Certainly not with a lowly police
department. He'd be revealing Sources and Methods.
Anthony Marsh
2018-04-23 16:37:08 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?
It's easy to say in hindsight what people should have done. Is there any
reason that Frazier would have given a second thought to Oswald's curtain
rods. What reason would he have to suspect there was more to it than that.
It's also a stretch to think that the FBI would have taken the time to
plot out where all of their people of interest were working and compare
that to the motorcade route. Of all the people they were keeping tabs on
in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, what would have made Oswald stand out more
than any of the others prior to 11/22/63.
Gee, I don't know, maybe Oswald threatening to blow up the FBI office!
You think that happened every day. Show me any other such threats.
Ace Kefford
2018-05-05 01:43:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
CTs basically consider LHO a simpleton. It very well could be true
because he did have such a simple plan to sneak parts of a rifle into the
back door of the TSBD without anyone noticing. The plan was so simple it
worked, when he figured out his driver was a simpleton too. This naive
young fellow lacked curiosity to look inside the paper bag and actually
believed a minimum wage blue collar guy would take curtain rods to work so
he could decorate a small room at a boarding house. Curtains are not
something blue collar guys care about if they already have venetian
blinds.
Didn't BWF think LHO was just a little bit weird for doing something like
that? First, he does something unusual and goes to Irving on Thursday,
then brings a mystery bag to work on the same day as the advertised
Presidential parade through downtown Dallas. So what happened is two
simpletons defeated all the safety precautions taken by the Federal
Government who failed to notify local authorities of a possible threat.
The only thing that could have saved the President and Governor is for
local security to fill in the obvious gaps the Feds overlooked. It could
have easily happened if the Feds had notified either the DPD and DCSD that
a returning Communist defector now worked in a building on the parade
route. So any security strategy based on "Abundance of Caution" approach
would include this important communication linkage that should have been
done. Was the Secrete Service even notified LHO had recently relocated to
Dallas after his curious trip to Mexico City meeting with two Communist
governments?
What a loss for this country! If only Lee Oswald had not been framed for
the assassination and the Tippit shooting, then he surely would be
remembered today for having fulfilled his prediction to Marina that in 20
years he would be prime minister!
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