Discussion:
The More I Read About This Case
(too old to reply)
claviger
2018-05-31 02:47:16 UTC
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The more I notice a lack of brilliance anywhere. LHO was not
brilliant, rather a low-tech bare minimum sniper. The CIA was
on a training curve. The FBI was bureaucratic and dull witted.
The Secrete Service was brave but minimal. The DPD was in
slow transition from the Wild West to a modern urban policing
organization. They lost a Patrolman who evidently did not use
basic safety procedure. The DCSD was a step ahead with the
M-Squad look and DCSD Deputies seemed to do a better job
of crime scene investigation and questioning witnesses.

The DPD did locate the suspect and arrest him with no more
loss of life, but could not protect the him in transfer custody.
The situation at Police Headquarters was chaotic and unsafe.

This appalling situation would serve as a useful manual for
any future Police Department on:

”How Not to Search a Warehouse Office Building”.

And definitely:

"How Not to Arrest and Protect a Suspect Who Just
Murdered a National Leader”.

In DPD Chief Curry's defense he was ordered to make all the
mistakes above at Police Headquarters and stage the transfer
as a disastrous media event. Not the intent, rather a debacle
in the making. This turned out to be the perfect set-up for a
Murphy's Law fiasco.
claviger
2018-06-01 02:57:06 UTC
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Post by claviger
The more I notice a lack of brilliance anywhere. LHO was not
brilliant, rather a low-tech bare minimum sniper. The CIA was
on a training curve. The FBI was bureaucratic and dull witted.
The Secrete Service was brave but minimal. The DPD was in
slow transition from the Wild West to a modern urban policing
organization. They lost a Patrolman who evidently did not use
basic safety procedure. The DCSD was a step ahead with the
M-Squad look and DCSD Deputies seemed to do a better job
of crime scene investigation and questioning witnesses.
The DPD did locate the suspect and arrest him with no more
loss of life, but could not protect him during transfer custody.
The situation at Police Headquarters was chaotic and unsafe.
This appalling situation would serve as a useful manual for
”How Not to Search a Warehouse Office Building”.
"How Not to Arrest and Protect a Suspect Who Just
Murdered a National Leader”.
In DPD Chief Curry's defense he was ordered to make all the
mistakes above at Police Headquarters and stage the transfer
as a disastrous media event. Not the intent, rather a debacle
in the making. This turned out to be the perfect set-up for a
Murphy's Law fiasco.
The worst mistake by the DPD was trying to stage this investigation as a
media production. Chief Curry did not like this situation at all but
simply followed orders from the Mayor.
bigdog
2018-06-01 03:06:14 UTC
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Post by claviger
The more I notice a lack of brilliance anywhere. LHO was not
brilliant, rather a low-tech bare minimum sniper. The CIA was
on a training curve. The FBI was bureaucratic and dull witted.
The Secrete Service was brave but minimal. The DPD was in
slow transition from the Wild West to a modern urban policing
organization. They lost a Patrolman who evidently did not use
basic safety procedure. The DCSD was a step ahead with the
M-Squad look and DCSD Deputies seemed to do a better job
of crime scene investigation and questioning witnesses.
The DPD did locate the suspect and arrest him with no more
loss of life, but could not protect the him in transfer custody.
The situation at Police Headquarters was chaotic and unsafe.
This appalling situation would serve as a useful manual for
”How Not to Search a Warehouse Office Building”.
"How Not to Arrest and Protect a Suspect Who Just
Murdered a National Leader”.
In DPD Chief Curry's defense he was ordered to make all the
mistakes above at Police Headquarters and stage the transfer
as a disastrous media event. Not the intent, rather a debacle
in the making. This turned out to be the perfect set-up for a
Murphy's Law fiasco.
It has become SOP when moving high profile suspects to equip them with a
bullet proof vest, just in case. My guess is this is due to what happened
to Oswald. I've also read that the Kevlar type of vest hadn't been
invented yet at the time Oswald was killed and the body armor of the day
didn't reliably stop bullets.
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-01 20:38:14 UTC
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Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
The more I notice a lack of brilliance anywhere. LHO was not
brilliant, rather a low-tech bare minimum sniper. The CIA was
on a training curve. The FBI was bureaucratic and dull witted.
The Secrete Service was brave but minimal. The DPD was in
slow transition from the Wild West to a modern urban policing
organization. They lost a Patrolman who evidently did not use
basic safety procedure. The DCSD was a step ahead with the
M-Squad look and DCSD Deputies seemed to do a better job
of crime scene investigation and questioning witnesses.
The DPD did locate the suspect and arrest him with no more
loss of life, but could not protect the him in transfer custody.
The situation at Police Headquarters was chaotic and unsafe.
This appalling situation would serve as a useful manual for
”How Not to Search a Warehouse Office Building”.
"How Not to Arrest and Protect a Suspect Who Just
Murdered a National Leader”.
In DPD Chief Curry's defense he was ordered to make all the
mistakes above at Police Headquarters and stage the transfer
as a disastrous media event. Not the intent, rather a debacle
in the making. This turned out to be the perfect set-up for a
Murphy's Law fiasco.
It has become SOP when moving high profile suspects to equip them with a
bullet proof vest, just in case. My guess is this is due to what happened
to Oswald. I've also read that the Kevlar type of vest hadn't been
invented yet at the time Oswald was killed and the body armor of the day
didn't reliably stop bullets.
Pretty much. What happened to their BRILLIANT plan to put him into an
armored car?
Steve BH
2018-06-02 17:23:27 UTC
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Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
The more I notice a lack of brilliance anywhere. LHO was not
brilliant, rather a low-tech bare minimum sniper. The CIA was
on a training curve. The FBI was bureaucratic and dull witted.
The Secrete Service was brave but minimal. The DPD was in
slow transition from the Wild West to a modern urban policing
organization. They lost a Patrolman who evidently did not use
basic safety procedure. The DCSD was a step ahead with the
M-Squad look and DCSD Deputies seemed to do a better job
of crime scene investigation and questioning witnesses.
The DPD did locate the suspect and arrest him with no more
loss of life, but could not protect the him in transfer custody.
The situation at Police Headquarters was chaotic and unsafe.
This appalling situation would serve as a useful manual for
”How Not to Search a Warehouse Office Building”.
"How Not to Arrest and Protect a Suspect Who Just
Murdered a National Leader”.
In DPD Chief Curry's defense he was ordered to make all the
mistakes above at Police Headquarters and stage the transfer
as a disastrous media event. Not the intent, rather a debacle
in the making. This turned out to be the perfect set-up for a
Murphy's Law fiasco.
It has become SOP when moving high profile suspects to equip them with a
bullet proof vest, just in case. My guess is this is due to what happened
to Oswald. I've also read that the Kevlar type of vest hadn't been
invented yet at the time Oswald was killed and the body armor of the day
didn't reliably stop bullets.
Pretty much. What happened to their BRILLIANT plan to put him into an
armored car?
You know the answer: the armored car was too high to clear the ceiling
that led into the basement ramp drop-off of the Dallas PD building. So it
had to be left on the street backed up to the ramp entrance, as a decoy.
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-03 17:39:30 UTC
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Post by Steve BH
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
The more I notice a lack of brilliance anywhere. LHO was not
brilliant, rather a low-tech bare minimum sniper. The CIA was
on a training curve. The FBI was bureaucratic and dull witted.
The Secrete Service was brave but minimal. The DPD was in
slow transition from the Wild West to a modern urban policing
organization. They lost a Patrolman who evidently did not use
basic safety procedure. The DCSD was a step ahead with the
M-Squad look and DCSD Deputies seemed to do a better job
of crime scene investigation and questioning witnesses.
The DPD did locate the suspect and arrest him with no more
loss of life, but could not protect the him in transfer custody.
The situation at Police Headquarters was chaotic and unsafe.
This appalling situation would serve as a useful manual for
???How Not to Search a Warehouse Office Building???.
"How Not to Arrest and Protect a Suspect Who Just
Murdered a National Leader???.
In DPD Chief Curry's defense he was ordered to make all the
mistakes above at Police Headquarters and stage the transfer
as a disastrous media event. Not the intent, rather a debacle
in the making. This turned out to be the perfect set-up for a
Murphy's Law fiasco.
It has become SOP when moving high profile suspects to equip them with a
bullet proof vest, just in case. My guess is this is due to what happened
to Oswald. I've also read that the Kevlar type of vest hadn't been
invented yet at the time Oswald was killed and the body armor of the day
didn't reliably stop bullets.
Pretty much. What happened to their BRILLIANT plan to put him into an
armored car?
You know the answer: the armored car was too high to clear the ceiling
that led into the basement ramp drop-off of the Dallas PD building. So it
Of course *I* know the answer. I've written about it many times and
experienced it with my bus.

Some of your fellow WC defenders did not know it.
Post by Steve BH
had to be left on the street backed up to the ramp entrance, as a decoy.
Or to keep assassins out.
n***@gmail.com
2018-06-05 22:18:20 UTC
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Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve BH
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
The more I notice a lack of brilliance anywhere. LHO was not
brilliant, rather a low-tech bare minimum sniper. The CIA was
on a training curve. The FBI was bureaucratic and dull witted.
The Secrete Service was brave but minimal. The DPD was in
slow transition from the Wild West to a modern urban policing
organization. They lost a Patrolman who evidently did not use
basic safety procedure. The DCSD was a step ahead with the
M-Squad look and DCSD Deputies seemed to do a better job
of crime scene investigation and questioning witnesses.
The DPD did locate the suspect and arrest him with no more
loss of life, but could not protect the him in transfer custody.
The situation at Police Headquarters was chaotic and unsafe.
This appalling situation would serve as a useful manual for
???How Not to Search a Warehouse Office Building???.
"How Not to Arrest and Protect a Suspect Who Just
Murdered a National Leader???.
In DPD Chief Curry's defense he was ordered to make all the
mistakes above at Police Headquarters and stage the transfer
as a disastrous media event. Not the intent, rather a debacle
in the making. This turned out to be the perfect set-up for a
Murphy's Law fiasco.
It has become SOP when moving high profile suspects to equip them with a
bullet proof vest, just in case. My guess is this is due to what happened
to Oswald. I've also read that the Kevlar type of vest hadn't been
invented yet at the time Oswald was killed and the body armor of the day
didn't reliably stop bullets.
Pretty much. What happened to their BRILLIANT plan to put him into an
armored car?
You know the answer: the armored car was too high to clear the ceiling
that led into the basement ramp drop-off of the Dallas PD building. So it
Of course *I* know the answer. I've written about it many times and
experienced it with my bus.
Some of your fellow WC defenders did not know it.
Here is a prime example of why we all respect Tony so much: I knew that
but didn't say so because so many hayseeds in fly-over country are
ignorant. Mark
Allan G. Johnson
2018-06-04 00:10:23 UTC
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Post by Steve BH
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
The more I notice a lack of brilliance anywhere. LHO was not
brilliant, rather a low-tech bare minimum sniper. The CIA was
on a training curve. The FBI was bureaucratic and dull witted.
The Secrete Service was brave but minimal. The DPD was in
slow transition from the Wild West to a modern urban policing
organization. They lost a Patrolman who evidently did not use
basic safety procedure. The DCSD was a step ahead with the
M-Squad look and DCSD Deputies seemed to do a better job
of crime scene investigation and questioning witnesses.
The DPD did locate the suspect and arrest him with no more
loss of life, but could not protect the him in transfer custody.
The situation at Police Headquarters was chaotic and unsafe.
This appalling situation would serve as a useful manual for
”How Not to Search a Warehouse Office Building”.
"How Not to Arrest and Protect a Suspect Who Just
Murdered a National Leader”.
In DPD Chief Curry's defense he was ordered to make all the
mistakes above at Police Headquarters and stage the transfer
as a disastrous media event. Not the intent, rather a debacle
in the making. This turned out to be the perfect set-up for a
Murphy's Law fiasco.
It has become SOP when moving high profile suspects to equip them with a
bullet proof vest, just in case. My guess is this is due to what happened
to Oswald. I've also read that the Kevlar type of vest hadn't been
invented yet at the time Oswald was killed and the body armor of the day
didn't reliably stop bullets.
Pretty much. What happened to their BRILLIANT plan to put him into an
armored car?
You know the answer: the armored car was too high to clear the ceiling
that led into the basement ramp drop-off of the Dallas PD building. So it
had to be left on the street backed up to the ramp entrance, as a decoy.
The original plan was to use the armored car (truck) to take Oswald but
Fritz switched it up and wanted to put Oswald in a backup car to trail the
armored car and use the armored car as a decoy. He told Lt. Pierce to
take a car from the garage and get in front of this procession, but to do
that he had to drive around the building by first exiting the garage using
the Main St. ramp because the armored car was blocking the Commerce St.
ramp. This allowed Ruby to enter the garage from Main street. So, in
essence, the armored car, intended to protect Oswald, was the catalyst in
getting him killed.
bigdog
2018-06-04 23:38:48 UTC
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Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Steve BH
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
The more I notice a lack of brilliance anywhere. LHO was not
brilliant, rather a low-tech bare minimum sniper. The CIA was
on a training curve. The FBI was bureaucratic and dull witted.
The Secrete Service was brave but minimal. The DPD was in
slow transition from the Wild West to a modern urban policing
organization. They lost a Patrolman who evidently did not use
basic safety procedure. The DCSD was a step ahead with the
M-Squad look and DCSD Deputies seemed to do a better job
of crime scene investigation and questioning witnesses.
The DPD did locate the suspect and arrest him with no more
loss of life, but could not protect the him in transfer custody.
The situation at Police Headquarters was chaotic and unsafe.
This appalling situation would serve as a useful manual for
”How Not to Search a Warehouse Office Building”.
"How Not to Arrest and Protect a Suspect Who Just
Murdered a National Leader”.
In DPD Chief Curry's defense he was ordered to make all the
mistakes above at Police Headquarters and stage the transfer
as a disastrous media event. Not the intent, rather a debacle
in the making. This turned out to be the perfect set-up for a
Murphy's Law fiasco.
It has become SOP when moving high profile suspects to equip them with a
bullet proof vest, just in case. My guess is this is due to what happened
to Oswald. I've also read that the Kevlar type of vest hadn't been
invented yet at the time Oswald was killed and the body armor of the day
didn't reliably stop bullets.
Pretty much. What happened to their BRILLIANT plan to put him into an
armored car?
You know the answer: the armored car was too high to clear the ceiling
that led into the basement ramp drop-off of the Dallas PD building. So it
had to be left on the street backed up to the ramp entrance, as a decoy.
The original plan was to use the armored car (truck) to take Oswald but
Fritz switched it up and wanted to put Oswald in a backup car to trail the
armored car and use the armored car as a decoy. He told Lt. Pierce to
take a car from the garage and get in front of this procession, but to do
that he had to drive around the building by first exiting the garage using
the Main St. ramp because the armored car was blocking the Commerce St.
ramp. This allowed Ruby to enter the garage from Main street. So, in
essence, the armored car, intended to protect Oswald, was the catalyst in
getting him killed.
I believe I read that the cop guarding that entrance stepped away
momentarily to halt traffic for the armored car and that just happened to
be when Ruby arrived and walked down the unguarded ramp. It was not only a
series of errors but random chance that had Ruby arriving at just the
right time to be in position to do what he did. You couldn't make this
stuff up.
bigdog
2018-06-04 23:39:12 UTC
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Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Steve BH
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
The more I notice a lack of brilliance anywhere. LHO was not
brilliant, rather a low-tech bare minimum sniper. The CIA was
on a training curve. The FBI was bureaucratic and dull witted.
The Secrete Service was brave but minimal. The DPD was in
slow transition from the Wild West to a modern urban policing
organization. They lost a Patrolman who evidently did not use
basic safety procedure. The DCSD was a step ahead with the
M-Squad look and DCSD Deputies seemed to do a better job
of crime scene investigation and questioning witnesses.
The DPD did locate the suspect and arrest him with no more
loss of life, but could not protect the him in transfer custody.
The situation at Police Headquarters was chaotic and unsafe.
This appalling situation would serve as a useful manual for
”How Not to Search a Warehouse Office Building”.
"How Not to Arrest and Protect a Suspect Who Just
Murdered a National Leader”.
In DPD Chief Curry's defense he was ordered to make all the
mistakes above at Police Headquarters and stage the transfer
as a disastrous media event. Not the intent, rather a debacle
in the making. This turned out to be the perfect set-up for a
Murphy's Law fiasco.
It has become SOP when moving high profile suspects to equip them with a
bullet proof vest, just in case. My guess is this is due to what happened
to Oswald. I've also read that the Kevlar type of vest hadn't been
invented yet at the time Oswald was killed and the body armor of the day
didn't reliably stop bullets.
Pretty much. What happened to their BRILLIANT plan to put him into an
armored car?
You know the answer: the armored car was too high to clear the ceiling
that led into the basement ramp drop-off of the Dallas PD building. So it
had to be left on the street backed up to the ramp entrance, as a decoy.
The original plan was to use the armored car (truck) to take Oswald but
Fritz switched it up and wanted to put Oswald in a backup car to trail the
armored car and use the armored car as a decoy. He told Lt. Pierce to
take a car from the garage and get in front of this procession, but to do
that he had to drive around the building by first exiting the garage using
the Main St. ramp because the armored car was blocking the Commerce St.
ramp. This allowed Ruby to enter the garage from Main street. So, in
essence, the armored car, intended to protect Oswald, was the catalyst in
getting him killed.
I just reread this and realize I got the two entrances mixed up. I thought
I had read that Ruby entered the garage on the side the armored car was
when the cop stepped away to halt traffic for the armored car. I think I
read that in Reclaiming History but I don't have access to my copy right
now so I can't verify that. I'll double check this when I can.
Allan G. Johnson
2018-06-06 00:54:47 UTC
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Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Steve BH
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
The more I notice a lack of brilliance anywhere. LHO was not
brilliant, rather a low-tech bare minimum sniper. The CIA was
on a training curve. The FBI was bureaucratic and dull witted.
The Secrete Service was brave but minimal. The DPD was in
slow transition from the Wild West to a modern urban policing
organization. They lost a Patrolman who evidently did not use
basic safety procedure. The DCSD was a step ahead with the
M-Squad look and DCSD Deputies seemed to do a better job
of crime scene investigation and questioning witnesses.
The DPD did locate the suspect and arrest him with no more
loss of life, but could not protect the him in transfer custody.
The situation at Police Headquarters was chaotic and unsafe.
This appalling situation would serve as a useful manual for
”How Not to Search a Warehouse Office Building”.
"How Not to Arrest and Protect a Suspect Who Just
Murdered a National Leader”.
In DPD Chief Curry's defense he was ordered to make all the
mistakes above at Police Headquarters and stage the transfer
as a disastrous media event. Not the intent, rather a debacle
in the making. This turned out to be the perfect set-up for a
Murphy's Law fiasco.
It has become SOP when moving high profile suspects to equip them with a
bullet proof vest, just in case. My guess is this is due to what happened
to Oswald. I've also read that the Kevlar type of vest hadn't been
invented yet at the time Oswald was killed and the body armor of the day
didn't reliably stop bullets.
Pretty much. What happened to their BRILLIANT plan to put him into an
armored car?
You know the answer: the armored car was too high to clear the ceiling
that led into the basement ramp drop-off of the Dallas PD building. So it
had to be left on the street backed up to the ramp entrance, as a decoy.
The original plan was to use the armored car (truck) to take Oswald but
Fritz switched it up and wanted to put Oswald in a backup car to trail the
armored car and use the armored car as a decoy. He told Lt. Pierce to
take a car from the garage and get in front of this procession, but to do
that he had to drive around the building by first exiting the garage using
the Main St. ramp because the armored car was blocking the Commerce St.
ramp. This allowed Ruby to enter the garage from Main street. So, in
essence, the armored car, intended to protect Oswald, was the catalyst in
getting him killed.
I just reread this and realize I got the two entrances mixed up. I thought
I had read that Ruby entered the garage on the side the armored car was
when the cop stepped away to halt traffic for the armored car. I think I
read that in Reclaiming History but I don't have access to my copy right
now so I can't verify that. I'll double check this when I can.
Remember, Ruby was able to identify the driver, Lt. Pierce, the driver
of the car, not the armored truck. Patrolman Vaughn stepped away from the
entrance temporarily to check traffic so Pierce could exit onto the
street. Pierce exited the garage by the Main St. entrance because the
truck was blocking the Commerce street entrance. Pages 267 to 271 in RH
describes this sequence in detail.
Allan G. Johnson
2018-06-07 01:13:32 UTC
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Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Steve BH
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
The more I notice a lack of brilliance anywhere. LHO was not
brilliant, rather a low-tech bare minimum sniper. The CIA was
on a training curve. The FBI was bureaucratic and dull witted.
The Secrete Service was brave but minimal. The DPD was in
slow transition from the Wild West to a modern urban policing
organization. They lost a Patrolman who evidently did not use
basic safety procedure. The DCSD was a step ahead with the
M-Squad look and DCSD Deputies seemed to do a better job
of crime scene investigation and questioning witnesses.
The DPD did locate the suspect and arrest him with no more
loss of life, but could not protect the him in transfer custody.
The situation at Police Headquarters was chaotic and unsafe.
This appalling situation would serve as a useful manual for
”How Not to Search a Warehouse Office Building”.
"How Not to Arrest and Protect a Suspect Who Just
Murdered a National Leader”.
In DPD Chief Curry's defense he was ordered to make all the
mistakes above at Police Headquarters and stage the transfer
as a disastrous media event. Not the intent, rather a debacle
in the making. This turned out to be the perfect set-up for a
Murphy's Law fiasco.
It has become SOP when moving high profile suspects to equip them with a
bullet proof vest, just in case. My guess is this is due to what happened
to Oswald. I've also read that the Kevlar type of vest hadn't been
invented yet at the time Oswald was killed and the body armor of the day
didn't reliably stop bullets.
Pretty much. What happened to their BRILLIANT plan to put him into an
armored car?
You know the answer: the armored car was too high to clear the ceiling
that led into the basement ramp drop-off of the Dallas PD building. So it
had to be left on the street backed up to the ramp entrance, as a decoy.
The original plan was to use the armored car (truck) to take Oswald but
Fritz switched it up and wanted to put Oswald in a backup car to trail the
armored car and use the armored car as a decoy. He told Lt. Pierce to
take a car from the garage and get in front of this procession, but to do
that he had to drive around the building by first exiting the garage using
the Main St. ramp because the armored car was blocking the Commerce St.
ramp. This allowed Ruby to enter the garage from Main street. So, in
essence, the armored car, intended to protect Oswald, was the catalyst in
getting him killed.
I just reread this and realize I got the two entrances mixed up. I thought
I had read that Ruby entered the garage on the side the armored car was
when the cop stepped away to halt traffic for the armored car. I think I
read that in Reclaiming History but I don't have access to my copy right
now so I can't verify that. I'll double check this when I can.
Another odd thing about this transfer of Oswald is why didn't the
Police block the streets (Commerce and Main) from all traffic during the
time of the transfer? It then wouldn't have been necessary for Patrolman
Vaughn to leave his position at the top of the Main St. ramp to check on
traffic for the Pierce car, which allowed Ruby to enter. Curry or Fritz
should have taken a page from Chief Brody in Jaws, "I'm the Chief of
Police, I can do anything".
bigdog
2018-06-08 01:16:24 UTC
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Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Steve BH
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
The more I notice a lack of brilliance anywhere. LHO was not
brilliant, rather a low-tech bare minimum sniper. The CIA was
on a training curve. The FBI was bureaucratic and dull witted.
The Secrete Service was brave but minimal. The DPD was in
slow transition from the Wild West to a modern urban policing
organization. They lost a Patrolman who evidently did not use
basic safety procedure. The DCSD was a step ahead with the
M-Squad look and DCSD Deputies seemed to do a better job
of crime scene investigation and questioning witnesses.
The DPD did locate the suspect and arrest him with no more
loss of life, but could not protect the him in transfer custody.
The situation at Police Headquarters was chaotic and unsafe.
This appalling situation would serve as a useful manual for
”How Not to Search a Warehouse Office Building”.
"How Not to Arrest and Protect a Suspect Who Just
Murdered a National Leader”.
In DPD Chief Curry's defense he was ordered to make all the
mistakes above at Police Headquarters and stage the transfer
as a disastrous media event. Not the intent, rather a debacle
in the making. This turned out to be the perfect set-up for a
Murphy's Law fiasco.
It has become SOP when moving high profile suspects to equip them with a
bullet proof vest, just in case. My guess is this is due to what happened
to Oswald. I've also read that the Kevlar type of vest hadn't been
invented yet at the time Oswald was killed and the body armor of the day
didn't reliably stop bullets.
Pretty much. What happened to their BRILLIANT plan to put him into an
armored car?
You know the answer: the armored car was too high to clear the ceiling
that led into the basement ramp drop-off of the Dallas PD building. So it
had to be left on the street backed up to the ramp entrance, as a decoy.
The original plan was to use the armored car (truck) to take Oswald but
Fritz switched it up and wanted to put Oswald in a backup car to trail the
armored car and use the armored car as a decoy. He told Lt. Pierce to
take a car from the garage and get in front of this procession, but to do
that he had to drive around the building by first exiting the garage using
the Main St. ramp because the armored car was blocking the Commerce St.
ramp. This allowed Ruby to enter the garage from Main street. So, in
essence, the armored car, intended to protect Oswald, was the catalyst in
getting him killed.
I just reread this and realize I got the two entrances mixed up. I thought
I had read that Ruby entered the garage on the side the armored car was
when the cop stepped away to halt traffic for the armored car. I think I
read that in Reclaiming History but I don't have access to my copy right
now so I can't verify that. I'll double check this when I can.
Another odd thing about this transfer of Oswald is why didn't the
Police block the streets (Commerce and Main) from all traffic during the
time of the transfer? It then wouldn't have been necessary for Patrolman
Vaughn to leave his position at the top of the Main St. ramp to check on
traffic for the Pierce car, which allowed Ruby to enter. Curry or Fritz
should have taken a page from Chief Brody in Jaws, "I'm the Chief of
Police, I can do anything".
I think that would have been an extreme measure to stop traffic on two
busy thoroughfares especially when the time of the transfer was uncertain.
It should have been enough to block the ramps and public access to the
garage. They just did a sloppy job of it. Leaving the ramp unguarded for
even a few seconds was a careless act. Securing that ramp should have been
that cop's only priority and that isn't just speaking in hindsight.

It seems like a screwy idea to me to transfer Oswald in a regular car and
use the armored car as a decoy. If you have Oswald in an armored car, why
would you even need a decoy. Were they afraid somebody was going to hit it
with a bazooka?
Allan G. Johnson
2018-06-09 01:21:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Steve BH
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
The more I notice a lack of brilliance anywhere. LHO was not
brilliant, rather a low-tech bare minimum sniper. The CIA was
on a training curve. The FBI was bureaucratic and dull witted.
The Secrete Service was brave but minimal. The DPD was in
slow transition from the Wild West to a modern urban policing
organization. They lost a Patrolman who evidently did not use
basic safety procedure. The DCSD was a step ahead with the
M-Squad look and DCSD Deputies seemed to do a better job
of crime scene investigation and questioning witnesses.
The DPD did locate the suspect and arrest him with no more
loss of life, but could not protect the him in transfer custody.
The situation at Police Headquarters was chaotic and unsafe.
This appalling situation would serve as a useful manual for
”How Not to Search a Warehouse Office Building”.
"How Not to Arrest and Protect a Suspect Who Just
Murdered a National Leader”.
In DPD Chief Curry's defense he was ordered to make all the
mistakes above at Police Headquarters and stage the transfer
as a disastrous media event. Not the intent, rather a debacle
in the making. This turned out to be the perfect set-up for a
Murphy's Law fiasco.
It has become SOP when moving high profile suspects to equip them with a
bullet proof vest, just in case. My guess is this is due to what happened
to Oswald. I've also read that the Kevlar type of vest hadn't been
invented yet at the time Oswald was killed and the body armor of the day
didn't reliably stop bullets.
Pretty much. What happened to their BRILLIANT plan to put him into an
armored car?
You know the answer: the armored car was too high to clear the ceiling
that led into the basement ramp drop-off of the Dallas PD building. So it
had to be left on the street backed up to the ramp entrance, as a decoy.
The original plan was to use the armored car (truck) to take Oswald but
Fritz switched it up and wanted to put Oswald in a backup car to trail the
armored car and use the armored car as a decoy. He told Lt. Pierce to
take a car from the garage and get in front of this procession, but to do
that he had to drive around the building by first exiting the garage using
the Main St. ramp because the armored car was blocking the Commerce St.
ramp. This allowed Ruby to enter the garage from Main street. So, in
essence, the armored car, intended to protect Oswald, was the catalyst in
getting him killed.
I just reread this and realize I got the two entrances mixed up. I thought
I had read that Ruby entered the garage on the side the armored car was
when the cop stepped away to halt traffic for the armored car. I think I
read that in Reclaiming History but I don't have access to my copy right
now so I can't verify that. I'll double check this when I can.
Another odd thing about this transfer of Oswald is why didn't the
Police block the streets (Commerce and Main) from all traffic during the
time of the transfer? It then wouldn't have been necessary for Patrolman
Vaughn to leave his position at the top of the Main St. ramp to check on
traffic for the Pierce car, which allowed Ruby to enter. Curry or Fritz
should have taken a page from Chief Brody in Jaws, "I'm the Chief of
Police, I can do anything".
I think that would have been an extreme measure to stop traffic on two
busy thoroughfares especially when the time of the transfer was uncertain.
It should have been enough to block the ramps and public access to the
garage. They just did a sloppy job of it. Leaving the ramp unguarded for
even a few seconds was a careless act. Securing that ramp should have been
that cop's only priority and that isn't just speaking in hindsight.
It seems like a screwy idea to me to transfer Oswald in a regular car and
use the armored car as a decoy. If you have Oswald in an armored car, why
would you even need a decoy. Were they afraid somebody was going to hit it
with a bazooka?
According to Fritz's thinking, he didn't want anyone to get to Oswald
during the transfer, he didn't know the driver of the armored truck and
"if someone tries to take our prisoner" it would be "too difficult to cut
out of the caravan or take off or do what's necessary to protect him".
The "heavy money wagon would be too awkward in that situation". He
decided to take Oswald in a backup car on a different route down Main
street rather than the truck route down Elm to Houston to the County Jail.
"We'll be in the County Jail before the truck even gets there" according
to Fritz's plan, go figure.
bigdog
2018-06-10 17:52:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Steve BH
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
The more I notice a lack of brilliance anywhere. LHO was not
brilliant, rather a low-tech bare minimum sniper. The CIA was
on a training curve. The FBI was bureaucratic and dull witted.
The Secrete Service was brave but minimal. The DPD was in
slow transition from the Wild West to a modern urban policing
organization. They lost a Patrolman who evidently did not use
basic safety procedure. The DCSD was a step ahead with the
M-Squad look and DCSD Deputies seemed to do a better job
of crime scene investigation and questioning witnesses.
The DPD did locate the suspect and arrest him with no more
loss of life, but could not protect the him in transfer custody.
The situation at Police Headquarters was chaotic and unsafe.
This appalling situation would serve as a useful manual for
”How Not to Search a Warehouse Office Building”.
"How Not to Arrest and Protect a Suspect Who Just
Murdered a National Leader”.
In DPD Chief Curry's defense he was ordered to make all the
mistakes above at Police Headquarters and stage the transfer
as a disastrous media event. Not the intent, rather a debacle
in the making. This turned out to be the perfect set-up for a
Murphy's Law fiasco.
It has become SOP when moving high profile suspects to equip them with a
bullet proof vest, just in case. My guess is this is due to what happened
to Oswald. I've also read that the Kevlar type of vest hadn't been
invented yet at the time Oswald was killed and the body armor of the day
didn't reliably stop bullets.
Pretty much. What happened to their BRILLIANT plan to put him into an
armored car?
You know the answer: the armored car was too high to clear the ceiling
that led into the basement ramp drop-off of the Dallas PD building. So it
had to be left on the street backed up to the ramp entrance, as a decoy.
The original plan was to use the armored car (truck) to take Oswald but
Fritz switched it up and wanted to put Oswald in a backup car to trail the
armored car and use the armored car as a decoy. He told Lt. Pierce to
take a car from the garage and get in front of this procession, but to do
that he had to drive around the building by first exiting the garage using
the Main St. ramp because the armored car was blocking the Commerce St.
ramp. This allowed Ruby to enter the garage from Main street. So, in
essence, the armored car, intended to protect Oswald, was the catalyst in
getting him killed.
I just reread this and realize I got the two entrances mixed up. I thought
I had read that Ruby entered the garage on the side the armored car was
when the cop stepped away to halt traffic for the armored car. I think I
read that in Reclaiming History but I don't have access to my copy right
now so I can't verify that. I'll double check this when I can.
Another odd thing about this transfer of Oswald is why didn't the
Police block the streets (Commerce and Main) from all traffic during the
time of the transfer? It then wouldn't have been necessary for Patrolman
Vaughn to leave his position at the top of the Main St. ramp to check on
traffic for the Pierce car, which allowed Ruby to enter. Curry or Fritz
should have taken a page from Chief Brody in Jaws, "I'm the Chief of
Police, I can do anything".
I think that would have been an extreme measure to stop traffic on two
busy thoroughfares especially when the time of the transfer was uncertain.
It should have been enough to block the ramps and public access to the
garage. They just did a sloppy job of it. Leaving the ramp unguarded for
even a few seconds was a careless act. Securing that ramp should have been
that cop's only priority and that isn't just speaking in hindsight.
It seems like a screwy idea to me to transfer Oswald in a regular car and
use the armored car as a decoy. If you have Oswald in an armored car, why
would you even need a decoy. Were they afraid somebody was going to hit it
with a bazooka?
According to Fritz's thinking, he didn't want anyone to get to Oswald
during the transfer, he didn't know the driver of the armored truck and
"if someone tries to take our prisoner" it would be "too difficult to cut
out of the caravan or take off or do what's necessary to protect him".
The "heavy money wagon would be too awkward in that situation". He
decided to take Oswald in a backup car on a different route down Main
street rather than the truck route down Elm to Houston to the County Jail.
"We'll be in the County Jail before the truck even gets there" according
to Fritz's plan, go figure.
I think it is a case of overthinking the situation. Of course Ruby
rendered the decision moot.
Allan G. Johnson
2018-06-09 01:22:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Steve BH
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
The more I notice a lack of brilliance anywhere. LHO was not
brilliant, rather a low-tech bare minimum sniper. The CIA was
on a training curve. The FBI was bureaucratic and dull witted.
The Secrete Service was brave but minimal. The DPD was in
slow transition from the Wild West to a modern urban policing
organization. They lost a Patrolman who evidently did not use
basic safety procedure. The DCSD was a step ahead with the
M-Squad look and DCSD Deputies seemed to do a better job
of crime scene investigation and questioning witnesses.
The DPD did locate the suspect and arrest him with no more
loss of life, but could not protect the him in transfer custody.
The situation at Police Headquarters was chaotic and unsafe.
This appalling situation would serve as a useful manual for
”How Not to Search a Warehouse Office Building”.
"How Not to Arrest and Protect a Suspect Who Just
Murdered a National Leader”.
In DPD Chief Curry's defense he was ordered to make all the
mistakes above at Police Headquarters and stage the transfer
as a disastrous media event. Not the intent, rather a debacle
in the making. This turned out to be the perfect set-up for a
Murphy's Law fiasco.
It has become SOP when moving high profile suspects to equip them with a
bullet proof vest, just in case. My guess is this is due to what happened
to Oswald. I've also read that the Kevlar type of vest hadn't been
invented yet at the time Oswald was killed and the body armor of the day
didn't reliably stop bullets.
Pretty much. What happened to their BRILLIANT plan to put him into an
armored car?
You know the answer: the armored car was too high to clear the ceiling
that led into the basement ramp drop-off of the Dallas PD building. So it
had to be left on the street backed up to the ramp entrance, as a decoy.
The original plan was to use the armored car (truck) to take Oswald but
Fritz switched it up and wanted to put Oswald in a backup car to trail the
armored car and use the armored car as a decoy. He told Lt. Pierce to
take a car from the garage and get in front of this procession, but to do
that he had to drive around the building by first exiting the garage using
the Main St. ramp because the armored car was blocking the Commerce St.
ramp. This allowed Ruby to enter the garage from Main street. So, in
essence, the armored car, intended to protect Oswald, was the catalyst in
getting him killed.
I just reread this and realize I got the two entrances mixed up. I thought
I had read that Ruby entered the garage on the side the armored car was
when the cop stepped away to halt traffic for the armored car. I think I
read that in Reclaiming History but I don't have access to my copy right
now so I can't verify that. I'll double check this when I can.
Another odd thing about this transfer of Oswald is why didn't the
Police block the streets (Commerce and Main) from all traffic during the
time of the transfer? It then wouldn't have been necessary for Patrolman
Vaughn to leave his position at the top of the Main St. ramp to check on
traffic for the Pierce car, which allowed Ruby to enter. Curry or Fritz
should have taken a page from Chief Brody in Jaws, "I'm the Chief of
Police, I can do anything".
I think that would have been an extreme measure to stop traffic on two
busy thoroughfares especially when the time of the transfer was uncertain.
It should have been enough to block the ramps and public access to the
garage. They just did a sloppy job of it. Leaving the ramp unguarded for
even a few seconds was a careless act. Securing that ramp should have been
that cop's only priority and that isn't just speaking in hindsight.
It seems like a screwy idea to me to transfer Oswald in a regular car and
use the armored car as a decoy. If you have Oswald in an armored car, why
would you even need a decoy. Were they afraid somebody was going to hit it
with a bazooka?
They also should have used more than one officer to guard the entrance.
bigdog
2018-06-10 17:53:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
It seems like a screwy idea to me to transfer Oswald in a regular car and
use the armored car as a decoy. If you have Oswald in an armored car, why
would you even need a decoy. Were they afraid somebody was going to hit it
with a bazooka?
They also should have used more than one officer to guard the entrance.
Absolutely. I think they exhibited inexcusable complacency. Of course if
they hadn't, Oswald would have been convicted and sentenced to die but
there is probably a better than 50-50 chance appeals would have put off
his execution until the Supreme Court vacated all death sentences in the
early 1970s. The last execution prior to that was in 1967 and it is
unlikely Oswald would have exhausted his appeals by then. Had he cheated
the executioner, a 78 year old Oswald might still be doing time in the
Texas State Penitentiary. He would have as much chance of making parole as
Sirhan Sirhan or Charles Manson before he died.

Interesting that in checking Wikipedia for Oswald's age I noted it state
unequivocally that he was the assassin, not the alleged or suspected
assassin. Kudos to Wikipedia.
Allan G. Johnson
2018-06-11 02:10:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
It seems like a screwy idea to me to transfer Oswald in a regular car and
use the armored car as a decoy. If you have Oswald in an armored car, why
would you even need a decoy. Were they afraid somebody was going to hit it
with a bazooka?
They also should have used more than one officer to guard the entrance.
Absolutely. I think they exhibited inexcusable complacency. Of course if
they hadn't, Oswald would have been convicted and sentenced to die but
there is probably a better than 50-50 chance appeals would have put off
his execution until the Supreme Court vacated all death sentences in the
early 1970s. The last execution prior to that was in 1967 and it is
unlikely Oswald would have exhausted his appeals by then. Had he cheated
the executioner, a 78 year old Oswald might still be doing time in the
Texas State Penitentiary. He would have as much chance of making parole as
Sirhan Sirhan or Charles Manson before he died.
Interesting that in checking Wikipedia for Oswald's age I noted it state
unequivocally that he was the assassin, not the alleged or suspected
assassin. Kudos to Wikipedia.
A guilty verdict WOULD have at least put an official guilty stamp on
the case, in the same way VB handed Spence his lunch in the mock trial.
bigdog
2018-06-12 02:34:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
It seems like a screwy idea to me to transfer Oswald in a regular car and
use the armored car as a decoy. If you have Oswald in an armored car, why
would you even need a decoy. Were they afraid somebody was going to hit it
with a bazooka?
They also should have used more than one officer to guard the entrance.
Absolutely. I think they exhibited inexcusable complacency. Of course if
they hadn't, Oswald would have been convicted and sentenced to die but
there is probably a better than 50-50 chance appeals would have put off
his execution until the Supreme Court vacated all death sentences in the
early 1970s. The last execution prior to that was in 1967 and it is
unlikely Oswald would have exhausted his appeals by then. Had he cheated
the executioner, a 78 year old Oswald might still be doing time in the
Texas State Penitentiary. He would have as much chance of making parole as
Sirhan Sirhan or Charles Manson before he died.
Interesting that in checking Wikipedia for Oswald's age I noted it state
unequivocally that he was the assassin, not the alleged or suspected
assassin. Kudos to Wikipedia.
A guilty verdict WOULD have at least put an official guilty stamp on
the case, in the same way VB handed Spence his lunch in the mock trial.
We don't need an official stamp to know Oswald was an assassin any more
than we need one for John Wilkes Booth. The difference between Oswald and
Booth is we know Booth had accomplices and we have no evidence Oswald had
any. Oswald was more like Guiteau and Czolgosz.
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-13 19:54:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
It seems like a screwy idea to me to transfer Oswald in a regular car and
use the armored car as a decoy. If you have Oswald in an armored car, why
would you even need a decoy. Were they afraid somebody was going to hit it
with a bazooka?
They also should have used more than one officer to guard the entrance.
Absolutely. I think they exhibited inexcusable complacency. Of course if
they hadn't, Oswald would have been convicted and sentenced to die but
there is probably a better than 50-50 chance appeals would have put off
his execution until the Supreme Court vacated all death sentences in the
early 1970s. The last execution prior to that was in 1967 and it is
unlikely Oswald would have exhausted his appeals by then. Had he cheated
the executioner, a 78 year old Oswald might still be doing time in the
Texas State Penitentiary. He would have as much chance of making parole as
Sirhan Sirhan or Charles Manson before he died.
Interesting that in checking Wikipedia for Oswald's age I noted it state
unequivocally that he was the assassin, not the alleged or suspected
assassin. Kudos to Wikipedia.
A guilty verdict WOULD have at least put an official guilty stamp on
the case, in the same way VB handed Spence his lunch in the mock trial.
We don't need an official stamp to know Oswald was an assassin any more
than we need one for John Wilkes Booth. The difference between Oswald and
OK, but are you brave enough to admit that the Lincoln assassination was a
conspiracy or do you think the US government hanged all those people by
accident.

The danger of a trial is not that Oswald will walk, it is that he might
TALK. Accidentally blurt out the codename of Kostikov or something. And
start WWIII the way Penkovsky almost did.
Post by bigdog
Booth is we know Booth had accomplices and we have no evidence Oswald had
any. Oswald was more like Guiteau and Czolgosz.
Jason Burke
2018-06-14 14:54:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by bigdog
Post by bigdog
It seems like a screwy idea to me to transfer Oswald in a regular car and
use the armored car as a decoy. If you have Oswald in an armored car, why
would you even need a decoy. Were they afraid somebody was going to hit it
with a bazooka?
    They also should have used more than one officer to guard the
entrance.
Absolutely. I think they exhibited inexcusable complacency. Of course if
they hadn't, Oswald would have been convicted and sentenced to die but
there is probably a better than 50-50 chance appeals would have put off
his execution until the Supreme Court vacated all death sentences in the
early 1970s. The last execution prior to that was in 1967 and it is
unlikely Oswald would have exhausted his appeals by then. Had he cheated
the executioner, a 78 year old Oswald might still be doing time in the
Texas State Penitentiary. He would have as much chance of making parole as
Sirhan Sirhan or Charles Manson before he died.
Interesting that in checking Wikipedia for Oswald's age I noted it state
unequivocally that he was the assassin, not the alleged or suspected
assassin. Kudos to Wikipedia.
    A guilty verdict WOULD have at least put an official guilty stamp on
the case, in the same way VB handed Spence his lunch in the mock trial.
We don't need an official stamp to know Oswald was an assassin any more
than we need one for John Wilkes Booth. The difference between Oswald and
OK, but are you brave enough to admit that the Lincoln assassination was
a conspiracy or do you think the US government hanged all those people
by accident.
The danger of a trial is not that Oswald will walk, it is that he might
TALK. Accidentally blurt out the codename of Kostikov or something. And
start WWIII the way Penkovsky almost did.
What an imagination you have there!
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Booth is we know Booth had accomplices and we have no evidence Oswald had
any. Oswald was more like Guiteau and Czolgosz.
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-15 01:54:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jason Burke
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by bigdog
Post by bigdog
It seems like a screwy idea to me to transfer Oswald in a regular car and
use the armored car as a decoy. If you have Oswald in an armored car, why
would you even need a decoy. Were they afraid somebody was going to hit it
with a bazooka?
    They also should have used more than one officer to guard the
entrance.
Absolutely. I think they exhibited inexcusable complacency. Of course if
they hadn't, Oswald would have been convicted and sentenced to die but
there is probably a better than 50-50 chance appeals would have put off
his execution until the Supreme Court vacated all death sentences in the
early 1970s. The last execution prior to that was in 1967 and it is
unlikely Oswald would have exhausted his appeals by then. Had he cheated
the executioner, a 78 year old Oswald might still be doing time in the
Texas State Penitentiary. He would have as much chance of making parole as
Sirhan Sirhan or Charles Manson before he died.
Interesting that in checking Wikipedia for Oswald's age I noted it state
unequivocally that he was the assassin, not the alleged or suspected
assassin. Kudos to Wikipedia.
    A guilty verdict WOULD have at least put an official guilty stamp on
the case, in the same way VB handed Spence his lunch in the mock trial.
We don't need an official stamp to know Oswald was an assassin any more
than we need one for John Wilkes Booth. The difference between Oswald and
OK, but are you brave enough to admit that the Lincoln assassination
was a conspiracy or do you think the US government hanged all those
people by accident.
The danger of a trial is not that Oswald will walk, it is that he
might TALK. Accidentally blurt out the codename of Kostikov or
something. And start WWIII the way Penkovsky almost did.
What an imagination you have there!
About what? Why can't you ever read some books or Google something?
Post by Jason Burke
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Booth is we know Booth had accomplices and we have no evidence Oswald had
any. Oswald was more like Guiteau and Czolgosz.
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-12 12:35:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
It seems like a screwy idea to me to transfer Oswald in a regular car and
use the armored car as a decoy. If you have Oswald in an armored car, why
would you even need a decoy. Were they afraid somebody was going to hit it
with a bazooka?
They also should have used more than one officer to guard the entrance.
Absolutely. I think they exhibited inexcusable complacency. Of course if
they hadn't, Oswald would have been convicted and sentenced to die but
there is probably a better than 50-50 chance appeals would have put off
his execution until the Supreme Court vacated all death sentences in the
early 1970s. The last execution prior to that was in 1967 and it is
unlikely Oswald would have exhausted his appeals by then. Had he cheated
the executioner, a 78 year old Oswald might still be doing time in the
Texas State Penitentiary. He would have as much chance of making parole as
Sirhan Sirhan or Charles Manson before he died.
Interesting that in checking Wikipedia for Oswald's age I noted it state
unequivocally that he was the assassin, not the alleged or suspected
assassin. Kudos to Wikipedia.
A guilty verdict WOULD have at least put an official guilty stamp on
the case, in the same way VB handed Spence his lunch in the mock trial.
Spence took a dive for money.
OHLeeRedux
2018-06-13 02:46:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
It seems like a screwy idea to me to transfer Oswald in a regular car and
use the armored car as a decoy. If you have Oswald in an armored car, why
would you even need a decoy. Were they afraid somebody was going to hit it
with a bazooka?
They also should have used more than one officer to guard the entrance.
Absolutely. I think they exhibited inexcusable complacency. Of course if
they hadn't, Oswald would have been convicted and sentenced to die but
there is probably a better than 50-50 chance appeals would have put off
his execution until the Supreme Court vacated all death sentences in the
early 1970s. The last execution prior to that was in 1967 and it is
unlikely Oswald would have exhausted his appeals by then. Had he cheated
the executioner, a 78 year old Oswald might still be doing time in the
Texas State Penitentiary. He would have as much chance of making parole as
Sirhan Sirhan or Charles Manson before he died.
Interesting that in checking Wikipedia for Oswald's age I noted it state
unequivocally that he was the assassin, not the alleged or suspected
assassin. Kudos to Wikipedia.
A guilty verdict WOULD have at least put an official guilty stamp on
the case, in the same way VB handed Spence his lunch in the mock trial.
Spence took a dive for money.
FALSE. SLANDER. Watch yourself, Marsh.
Allan G. Johnson
2018-06-14 02:28:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by OHLeeRedux
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
It seems like a screwy idea to me to transfer Oswald in a regular car and
use the armored car as a decoy. If you have Oswald in an armored car, why
would you even need a decoy. Were they afraid somebody was going to hit it
with a bazooka?
They also should have used more than one officer to guard the entrance.
Absolutely. I think they exhibited inexcusable complacency. Of course if
they hadn't, Oswald would have been convicted and sentenced to die but
there is probably a better than 50-50 chance appeals would have put off
his execution until the Supreme Court vacated all death sentences in the
early 1970s. The last execution prior to that was in 1967 and it is
unlikely Oswald would have exhausted his appeals by then. Had he cheated
the executioner, a 78 year old Oswald might still be doing time in the
Texas State Penitentiary. He would have as much chance of making parole as
Sirhan Sirhan or Charles Manson before he died.
Interesting that in checking Wikipedia for Oswald's age I noted it state
unequivocally that he was the assassin, not the alleged or suspected
assassin. Kudos to Wikipedia.
A guilty verdict WOULD have at least put an official guilty stamp on
the case, in the same way VB handed Spence his lunch in the mock trial.
Spence took a dive for money.
FALSE. SLANDER. Watch yourself, Marsh.
Don't think he needed the money, he took the case for personal publicity
and ego.
Steve BH
2018-06-11 20:15:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
It seems like a screwy idea to me to transfer Oswald in a regular car and
use the armored car as a decoy. If you have Oswald in an armored car, why
would you even need a decoy. Were they afraid somebody was going to hit it
with a bazooka?
They also should have used more than one officer to guard the entrance.
Absolutely. I think they exhibited inexcusable complacency. Of course if
they hadn't, Oswald would have been convicted and sentenced to die but
there is probably a better than 50-50 chance appeals would have put off
his execution until the Supreme Court vacated all death sentences in the
early 1970s. The last execution prior to that was in 1967 and it is
unlikely Oswald would have exhausted his appeals by then. Had he cheated
the executioner, a 78 year old Oswald might still be doing time in the
Texas State Penitentiary. He would have as much chance of making parole as
Sirhan Sirhan or Charles Manson before he died.
Interesting that in checking Wikipedia for Oswald's age I noted it state
unequivocally that he was the assassin, not the alleged or suspected
assassin. Kudos to Wikipedia.
Yep. Oswald would never have been executed.

The last Texas electrocution before the Supreme Court intervention was
July 30, 1964, and there is no chance Oswald would have made that
eight-month window, even for Tippit. Time for appeals alone in Texas at
this time was at least one year, and often two.

Incidentally, this was a time when "negros" were still being electrocuted
in the state of Texas for the rape of white women (in fact about a third
of the TOTAL of the last 28 people electrocuted in Texas, 1960-64, where
black men who had raped white women). In this same interval ONE white man
was electrocuted for rape.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_executed_in_Texas,_1960%E2%80%9364
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-12 13:27:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Steve BH
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
It seems like a screwy idea to me to transfer Oswald in a regular car and
use the armored car as a decoy. If you have Oswald in an armored car, why
would you even need a decoy. Were they afraid somebody was going to hit it
with a bazooka?
They also should have used more than one officer to guard the entrance.
Absolutely. I think they exhibited inexcusable complacency. Of course if
they hadn't, Oswald would have been convicted and sentenced to die but
there is probably a better than 50-50 chance appeals would have put off
his execution until the Supreme Court vacated all death sentences in the
early 1970s. The last execution prior to that was in 1967 and it is
unlikely Oswald would have exhausted his appeals by then. Had he cheated
the executioner, a 78 year old Oswald might still be doing time in the
Texas State Penitentiary. He would have as much chance of making parole as
Sirhan Sirhan or Charles Manson before he died.
Interesting that in checking Wikipedia for Oswald's age I noted it state
unequivocally that he was the assassin, not the alleged or suspected
assassin. Kudos to Wikipedia.
Yep. Oswald would never have been executed.
The last Texas electrocution before the Supreme Court intervention was
July 30, 1964, and there is no chance Oswald would have made that
eight-month window, even for Tippit. Time for appeals alone in Texas at
this time was at least one year, and often two.
Incidentally, this was a time when "negros" were still being electrocuted
in the state of Texas for the rape of white women (in fact about a third
of the TOTAL of the last 28 people electrocuted in Texas, 1960-64, where
black men who had raped white women). In this same interval ONE white man
was electrocuted for rape.
Of a black woman?
Are you also counting all the lynchings?
Post by Steve BH
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_executed_in_Texas,_1960%E2%80%9364
Steve BH
2018-06-14 00:59:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Steve BH
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by bigdog
It seems like a screwy idea to me to transfer Oswald in a regular car and
use the armored car as a decoy. If you have Oswald in an armored car, why
would you even need a decoy. Were they afraid somebody was going to hit it
with a bazooka?
They also should have used more than one officer to guard the entrance.
Absolutely. I think they exhibited inexcusable complacency. Of course if
they hadn't, Oswald would have been convicted and sentenced to die but
there is probably a better than 50-50 chance appeals would have put off
his execution until the Supreme Court vacated all death sentences in the
early 1970s. The last execution prior to that was in 1967 and it is
unlikely Oswald would have exhausted his appeals by then. Had he cheated
the executioner, a 78 year old Oswald might still be doing time in the
Texas State Penitentiary. He would have as much chance of making parole as
Sirhan Sirhan or Charles Manson before he died.
Interesting that in checking Wikipedia for Oswald's age I noted it state
unequivocally that he was the assassin, not the alleged or suspected
assassin. Kudos to Wikipedia.
Yep. Oswald would never have been executed.
The last Texas electrocution before the Supreme Court intervention was
July 30, 1964, and there is no chance Oswald would have made that
eight-month window, even for Tippit. Time for appeals alone in Texas at
this time was at least one year, and often two.
Incidentally, this was a time when "negros" were still being electrocuted
in the state of Texas for the rape of white women (in fact about a third
of the TOTAL of the last 28 people electrocuted in Texas, 1960-64, where
black men who had raped white women). In this same interval ONE white man
was electrocuted for rape.
Of a black woman?
Are you also counting all the lynchings?
Post by Steve BH
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_executed_in_Texas,_1960%E2%80%9364
You did read the word "electrocuted" did you not? The word is formed from
"electrically executed."
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-08 00:59:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by bigdog
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Steve BH
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
The more I notice a lack of brilliance anywhere. LHO was not
brilliant, rather a low-tech bare minimum sniper. The CIA was
on a training curve. The FBI was bureaucratic and dull witted.
The Secrete Service was brave but minimal. The DPD was in
slow transition from the Wild West to a modern urban policing
organization. They lost a Patrolman who evidently did not use
basic safety procedure. The DCSD was a step ahead with the
M-Squad look and DCSD Deputies seemed to do a better job
of crime scene investigation and questioning witnesses.
The DPD did locate the suspect and arrest him with no more
loss of life, but could not protect the him in transfer custody.
The situation at Police Headquarters was chaotic and unsafe.
This appalling situation would serve as a useful manual for
”How Not to Search a Warehouse Office Building”.
"How Not to Arrest and Protect a Suspect Who Just
Murdered a National Leader”.
In DPD Chief Curry's defense he was ordered to make all the
mistakes above at Police Headquarters and stage the transfer
as a disastrous media event. Not the intent, rather a debacle
in the making. This turned out to be the perfect set-up for a
Murphy's Law fiasco.
It has become SOP when moving high profile suspects to equip them with a
bullet proof vest, just in case. My guess is this is due to what happened
to Oswald. I've also read that the Kevlar type of vest hadn't been
invented yet at the time Oswald was killed and the body armor of the day
didn't reliably stop bullets.
Pretty much. What happened to their BRILLIANT plan to put him into an
armored car?
You know the answer: the armored car was too high to clear the ceiling
that led into the basement ramp drop-off of the Dallas PD building. So it
had to be left on the street backed up to the ramp entrance, as a decoy.
The original plan was to use the armored car (truck) to take Oswald but
Fritz switched it up and wanted to put Oswald in a backup car to trail the
armored car and use the armored car as a decoy. He told Lt. Pierce to
take a car from the garage and get in front of this procession, but to do
that he had to drive around the building by first exiting the garage using
the Main St. ramp because the armored car was blocking the Commerce St.
ramp. This allowed Ruby to enter the garage from Main street. So, in
essence, the armored car, intended to protect Oswald, was the catalyst in
getting him killed.
I just reread this and realize I got the two entrances mixed up. I thought
I had read that Ruby entered the garage on the side the armored car was
when the cop stepped away to halt traffic for the armored car. I think I
read that in Reclaiming History but I don't have access to my copy right
now so I can't verify that. I'll double check this when I can.
Close enough for a WC defender. We are a very forgiving group here of
your constant errors. Most are minor.
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-04 23:45:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Steve BH
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
The more I notice a lack of brilliance anywhere. LHO was not
brilliant, rather a low-tech bare minimum sniper. The CIA was
on a training curve. The FBI was bureaucratic and dull witted.
The Secrete Service was brave but minimal. The DPD was in
slow transition from the Wild West to a modern urban policing
organization. They lost a Patrolman who evidently did not use
basic safety procedure. The DCSD was a step ahead with the
M-Squad look and DCSD Deputies seemed to do a better job
of crime scene investigation and questioning witnesses.
The DPD did locate the suspect and arrest him with no more
loss of life, but could not protect the him in transfer custody.
The situation at Police Headquarters was chaotic and unsafe.
This appalling situation would serve as a useful manual for
???How Not to Search a Warehouse Office Building???.
"How Not to Arrest and Protect a Suspect Who Just
Murdered a National Leader???.
In DPD Chief Curry's defense he was ordered to make all the
mistakes above at Police Headquarters and stage the transfer
as a disastrous media event. Not the intent, rather a debacle
in the making. This turned out to be the perfect set-up for a
Murphy's Law fiasco.
It has become SOP when moving high profile suspects to equip them with a
bullet proof vest, just in case. My guess is this is due to what happened
to Oswald. I've also read that the Kevlar type of vest hadn't been
invented yet at the time Oswald was killed and the body armor of the day
didn't reliably stop bullets.
Pretty much. What happened to their BRILLIANT plan to put him into an
armored car?
You know the answer: the armored car was too high to clear the ceiling
that led into the basement ramp drop-off of the Dallas PD building. So it
had to be left on the street backed up to the ramp entrance, as a decoy.
The original plan was to use the armored car (truck) to take Oswald but
Fritz switched it up and wanted to put Oswald in a backup car to trail the
armored car and use the armored car as a decoy. He told Lt. Pierce to
take a car from the garage and get in front of this procession, but to do
that he had to drive around the building by first exiting the garage using
the Main St. ramp because the armored car was blocking the Commerce St.
ramp. This allowed Ruby to enter the garage from Main street. So, in
essence, the armored car, intended to protect Oswald, was the catalyst in
getting him killed.
Yes, some people call it unintended consequences. I call it good luck -
bad luck.

Like yesterday when I went to STaples, it had been hacked they could not
take credit cards or debit cards. So I had to go to Whole Foods to buy
something, anything and then get cash back. So by accident I found a great
deal on their peanut butter and got $100 cash back. Then I said the Hell
with Staples and went to Micro Center and found the LAST BOX of the
anti-virus software I wanted that Staples didn't even have in stock. Good
luck, bad luck, bad luck, good luck.
Allan G. Johnson
2018-06-06 00:54:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Steve BH
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
The more I notice a lack of brilliance anywhere. LHO was not
brilliant, rather a low-tech bare minimum sniper. The CIA was
on a training curve. The FBI was bureaucratic and dull witted.
The Secrete Service was brave but minimal. The DPD was in
slow transition from the Wild West to a modern urban policing
organization. They lost a Patrolman who evidently did not use
basic safety procedure. The DCSD was a step ahead with the
M-Squad look and DCSD Deputies seemed to do a better job
of crime scene investigation and questioning witnesses.
The DPD did locate the suspect and arrest him with no more
loss of life, but could not protect the him in transfer custody.
The situation at Police Headquarters was chaotic and unsafe.
This appalling situation would serve as a useful manual for
???How Not to Search a Warehouse Office Building???.
"How Not to Arrest and Protect a Suspect Who Just
Murdered a National Leader???.
In DPD Chief Curry's defense he was ordered to make all the
mistakes above at Police Headquarters and stage the transfer
as a disastrous media event. Not the intent, rather a debacle
in the making. This turned out to be the perfect set-up for a
Murphy's Law fiasco.
It has become SOP when moving high profile suspects to equip them with a
bullet proof vest, just in case. My guess is this is due to what happened
to Oswald. I've also read that the Kevlar type of vest hadn't been
invented yet at the time Oswald was killed and the body armor of the day
didn't reliably stop bullets.
Pretty much. What happened to their BRILLIANT plan to put him into an
armored car?
You know the answer: the armored car was too high to clear the ceiling
that led into the basement ramp drop-off of the Dallas PD building. So it
had to be left on the street backed up to the ramp entrance, as a decoy.
The original plan was to use the armored car (truck) to take Oswald but
Fritz switched it up and wanted to put Oswald in a backup car to trail the
armored car and use the armored car as a decoy. He told Lt. Pierce to
take a car from the garage and get in front of this procession, but to do
that he had to drive around the building by first exiting the garage using
the Main St. ramp because the armored car was blocking the Commerce St.
ramp. This allowed Ruby to enter the garage from Main street. So, in
essence, the armored car, intended to protect Oswald, was the catalyst in
getting him killed.
Yes, some people call it unintended consequences. I call it good luck -
bad luck.
Like yesterday when I went to STaples, it had been hacked they could not
take credit cards or debit cards. So I had to go to Whole Foods to buy
something, anything and then get cash back. So by accident I found a great
deal on their peanut butter and got $100 cash back. Then I said the Hell
with Staples and went to Micro Center and found the LAST BOX of the
anti-virus software I wanted that Staples didn't even have in stock. Good
luck, bad luck, bad luck, good luck.
In other words, s... happens.
Steve BH
2018-06-06 19:38:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Steve BH
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
The more I notice a lack of brilliance anywhere. LHO was not
brilliant, rather a low-tech bare minimum sniper. The CIA was
on a training curve. The FBI was bureaucratic and dull witted.
The Secrete Service was brave but minimal. The DPD was in
slow transition from the Wild West to a modern urban policing
organization. They lost a Patrolman who evidently did not use
basic safety procedure. The DCSD was a step ahead with the
M-Squad look and DCSD Deputies seemed to do a better job
of crime scene investigation and questioning witnesses.
The DPD did locate the suspect and arrest him with no more
loss of life, but could not protect the him in transfer custody.
The situation at Police Headquarters was chaotic and unsafe.
This appalling situation would serve as a useful manual for
”How Not to Search a Warehouse Office Building”.
"How Not to Arrest and Protect a Suspect Who Just
Murdered a National Leader”.
In DPD Chief Curry's defense he was ordered to make all the
mistakes above at Police Headquarters and stage the transfer
as a disastrous media event. Not the intent, rather a debacle
in the making. This turned out to be the perfect set-up for a
Murphy's Law fiasco.
It has become SOP when moving high profile suspects to equip them with a
bullet proof vest, just in case. My guess is this is due to what happened
to Oswald. I've also read that the Kevlar type of vest hadn't been
invented yet at the time Oswald was killed and the body armor of the day
didn't reliably stop bullets.
Pretty much. What happened to their BRILLIANT plan to put him into an
armored car?
You know the answer: the armored car was too high to clear the ceiling
that led into the basement ramp drop-off of the Dallas PD building. So it
had to be left on the street backed up to the ramp entrance, as a decoy.
The original plan was to use the armored car (truck) to take Oswald but
Fritz switched it up and wanted to put Oswald in a backup car to trail the
armored car and use the armored car as a decoy. He told Lt. Pierce to
take a car from the garage and get in front of this procession, but to do
that he had to drive around the building by first exiting the garage using
the Main St. ramp because the armored car was blocking the Commerce St.
ramp. This allowed Ruby to enter the garage from Main street. So, in
essence, the armored car, intended to protect Oswald, was the catalyst in
getting him killed.
Yep. Ruby made it to his position to shoot Oswald with an estimated only
30 seconds to spare. Had the Main entrance been blocked and Ruby had had
to go from Main (where the Western Union was) across a block to Commerce
and into the basement ramp entrance there, he wouldn't have made it in
time.

The fact that 4 minutes before Oswald was shot, Ruby was up the street
wiring money to a hooker, and would have missed Oswald completely had
Oswald not decided to change his dirty T-shirt, should have been enough to
exonerate Ruby from any suspicion of premeditation or being part of a
conspiracy. Melvin Belli's defense of Ruby *should* have consisted of
nothing but this fact, stated over and over and over.

But even such a hard fact, impossible to break (there's a *&%$ing
TIMESTAMP on Ruby's activities from one of the most secure clocks and
institutions possible at the time), does not deter true believers. That is
how you know attorneys like Belli can be incompetent, and conspiracy
theorists can be fruitcake-nutty.
Allan G. Johnson
2018-06-08 01:18:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Steve BH
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Steve BH
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
The more I notice a lack of brilliance anywhere. LHO was not
brilliant, rather a low-tech bare minimum sniper. The CIA was
on a training curve. The FBI was bureaucratic and dull witted.
The Secrete Service was brave but minimal. The DPD was in
slow transition from the Wild West to a modern urban policing
organization. They lost a Patrolman who evidently did not use
basic safety procedure. The DCSD was a step ahead with the
M-Squad look and DCSD Deputies seemed to do a better job
of crime scene investigation and questioning witnesses.
The DPD did locate the suspect and arrest him with no more
loss of life, but could not protect the him in transfer custody.
The situation at Police Headquarters was chaotic and unsafe.
This appalling situation would serve as a useful manual for
”How Not to Search a Warehouse Office Building”.
"How Not to Arrest and Protect a Suspect Who Just
Murdered a National Leader”.
In DPD Chief Curry's defense he was ordered to make all the
mistakes above at Police Headquarters and stage the transfer
as a disastrous media event. Not the intent, rather a debacle
in the making. This turned out to be the perfect set-up for a
Murphy's Law fiasco.
It has become SOP when moving high profile suspects to equip them with a
bullet proof vest, just in case. My guess is this is due to what happened
to Oswald. I've also read that the Kevlar type of vest hadn't been
invented yet at the time Oswald was killed and the body armor of the day
didn't reliably stop bullets.
Pretty much. What happened to their BRILLIANT plan to put him into an
armored car?
You know the answer: the armored car was too high to clear the ceiling
that led into the basement ramp drop-off of the Dallas PD building. So it
had to be left on the street backed up to the ramp entrance, as a decoy.
The original plan was to use the armored car (truck) to take Oswald but
Fritz switched it up and wanted to put Oswald in a backup car to trail the
armored car and use the armored car as a decoy. He told Lt. Pierce to
take a car from the garage and get in front of this procession, but to do
that he had to drive around the building by first exiting the garage using
the Main St. ramp because the armored car was blocking the Commerce St.
ramp. This allowed Ruby to enter the garage from Main street. So, in
essence, the armored car, intended to protect Oswald, was the catalyst in
getting him killed.
Yep. Ruby made it to his position to shoot Oswald with an estimated only
30 seconds to spare. Had the Main entrance been blocked and Ruby had had
to go from Main (where the Western Union was) across a block to Commerce
and into the basement ramp entrance there, he wouldn't have made it in
time.
The fact that 4 minutes before Oswald was shot, Ruby was up the street
wiring money to a hooker, and would have missed Oswald completely had
Oswald not decided to change his dirty T-shirt, should have been enough to
exonerate Ruby from any suspicion of premeditation or being part of a
conspiracy. Melvin Belli's defense of Ruby *should* have consisted of
nothing but this fact, stated over and over and over.
But even such a hard fact, impossible to break (there's a *&%$ing
TIMESTAMP on Ruby's activities from one of the most secure clocks and
institutions possible at the time), does not deter true believers. That is
how you know attorneys like Belli can be incompetent, and conspiracy
theorists can be fruitcake-nutty.
Observing the film made in the basement at the time of the shooting,
from the time the Pierce car went up the ramp to the time Ruby took the
shot, was 50 seconds. This supports the scenario that Ruby did come down
the ramp and not enter from a Main street door and then down a stairwell
and then through a basement door and then climb over a railing to get in
position in time to get a shot off. There is also footage of Ruby
standing next to reporters for a good length of time waiting for Oswald,
this makes it even more unlikely he had the time to do that if he came
through the basement door.
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-09 01:39:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Steve BH
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Steve BH
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by bigdog
Post by claviger
The more I notice a lack of brilliance anywhere. LHO was not
brilliant, rather a low-tech bare minimum sniper. The CIA was
on a training curve. The FBI was bureaucratic and dull witted.
The Secrete Service was brave but minimal. The DPD was in
slow transition from the Wild West to a modern urban policing
organization. They lost a Patrolman who evidently did not use
basic safety procedure. The DCSD was a step ahead with the
M-Squad look and DCSD Deputies seemed to do a better job
of crime scene investigation and questioning witnesses.
The DPD did locate the suspect and arrest him with no more
loss of life, but could not protect the him in transfer custody.
The situation at Police Headquarters was chaotic and unsafe.
This appalling situation would serve as a useful manual for
???How Not to Search a Warehouse Office Building???.
"How Not to Arrest and Protect a Suspect Who Just
Murdered a National Leader???.
In DPD Chief Curry's defense he was ordered to make all the
mistakes above at Police Headquarters and stage the transfer
as a disastrous media event. Not the intent, rather a debacle
in the making. This turned out to be the perfect set-up for a
Murphy's Law fiasco.
It has become SOP when moving high profile suspects to equip them with a
bullet proof vest, just in case. My guess is this is due to what happened
to Oswald. I've also read that the Kevlar type of vest hadn't been
invented yet at the time Oswald was killed and the body armor of the day
didn't reliably stop bullets.
Pretty much. What happened to their BRILLIANT plan to put him into an
armored car?
You know the answer: the armored car was too high to clear the ceiling
that led into the basement ramp drop-off of the Dallas PD building. So it
had to be left on the street backed up to the ramp entrance, as a decoy.
The original plan was to use the armored car (truck) to take Oswald but
Fritz switched it up and wanted to put Oswald in a backup car to trail the
armored car and use the armored car as a decoy. He told Lt. Pierce to
take a car from the garage and get in front of this procession, but to do
that he had to drive around the building by first exiting the garage using
the Main St. ramp because the armored car was blocking the Commerce St.
ramp. This allowed Ruby to enter the garage from Main street. So, in
essence, the armored car, intended to protect Oswald, was the catalyst in
getting him killed.
Yep. Ruby made it to his position to shoot Oswald with an estimated only
30 seconds to spare. Had the Main entrance been blocked and Ruby had had
to go from Main (where the Western Union was) across a block to Commerce
and into the basement ramp entrance there, he wouldn't have made it in
time.
The fact that 4 minutes before Oswald was shot, Ruby was up the street
wiring money to a hooker, and would have missed Oswald completely had
Oswald not decided to change his dirty T-shirt, should have been enough to
exonerate Ruby from any suspicion of premeditation or being part of a
conspiracy. Melvin Belli's defense of Ruby *should* have consisted of
nothing but this fact, stated over and over and over.
But even such a hard fact, impossible to break (there's a *&%$ing
TIMESTAMP on Ruby's activities from one of the most secure clocks and
institutions possible at the time), does not deter true believers. That is
how you know attorneys like Belli can be incompetent, and conspiracy
theorists can be fruitcake-nutty.
Observing the film made in the basement at the time of the shooting,
from the time the Pierce car went up the ramp to the time Ruby took the
shot, was 50 seconds. This supports the scenario that Ruby did come down
the ramp and not enter from a Main street door and then down a stairwell
and then through a basement door and then climb over a railing to get in
position in time to get a shot off. There is also footage of Ruby
standing next to reporters for a good length of time waiting for Oswald,
this makes it even more unlikely he had the time to do that if he came
through the basement door.
Why did Ruby even go to the police station with his gun if he didn't
intend to shoot Oswald?
John McAdams
2018-06-09 01:40:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 8 Jun 2018 21:39:30 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Why did Ruby even go to the police station with his gun if he didn't
intend to shoot Oswald?
He carried his gun everywhere, Tony. I thought you knew that.

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Allan G. Johnson
2018-06-10 17:55:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by John McAdams
On 8 Jun 2018 21:39:30 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Why did Ruby even go to the police station with his gun if he didn't
intend to shoot Oswald?
He carried his gun everywhere, Tony. I thought you knew that.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Why did he take his gun to the Western Union office if he didn't intend
to use it? Ditto!
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-11 14:18:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by John McAdams
On 8 Jun 2018 21:39:30 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Why did Ruby even go to the police station with his gun if he didn't
intend to shoot Oswald?
He carried his gun everywhere, Tony. I thought you knew that.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Why did he take his gun to the Western Union office if he didn't intend
to use it? Ditto!
Because he intended to shoot Oswald.
Allan G. Johnson
2018-06-12 21:57:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by John McAdams
On 8 Jun 2018 21:39:30 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Why did Ruby even go to the police station with his gun if he didn't
intend to shoot Oswald?
He carried his gun everywhere, Tony. I thought you knew that.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Why did he take his gun to the Western Union office if he didn't intend
to use it? Ditto!
Because he intended to shoot Oswald.
Back in May of 1954 Ruby was arrested and charged with carrying a
concealed weapon. His reason was that he carried large sums of money.
Since then, he was arrested over the years a few times for brawls he got
into and, due to his familiarity with the Dallas police, Jack admitted he
received preferential treatment. The Police knew he carried a gun on his
person for protection because he carried the Club's payroll. Although he
had no concealed weapons permit, the Police would give him his gun back.


After he shot Oswald, Ruby admitted to the FBI that he had his revolver
in his right front trouser pocket that Friday. In a handwritten note on a
3x5 card he wrote "Had I wanted to get to him, I could have reached in and
shot him when either Curry or Fritz brought him out into the hall". But
he didn't, same situation on Sat. when he attended the news conference.
If he wanted to shoot him he could have done it then.


From RH, VB -The fact that Ruby did not kill Oswald on Friday night,
when it would have been so easy for him to have done so, is virtually
conclusive evidence, all by itself, that he didn't kill Oswald on Sunday
for anyone but himself (not a conspiracy).

As I mentioned in previous posts, why would co-conspirators trust or
use Ruby to carry out the killing of Oswald on Sunday, knowing he would be
highly protected, when he had two prime opportunities to do it on Friday
and Saturday?


Just because he carried a gun on his person, does not mean he intends
to use it.
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-14 00:54:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by John McAdams
On 8 Jun 2018 21:39:30 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Why did Ruby even go to the police station with his gun if he didn't
intend to shoot Oswald?
He carried his gun everywhere, Tony. I thought you knew that.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Why did he take his gun to the Western Union office if he didn't intend
to use it? Ditto!
Because he intended to shoot Oswald.
Back in May of 1954 Ruby was arrested and charged with carrying a
concealed weapon. His reason was that he carried large sums of money.
Since then, he was arrested over the years a few times for brawls he got
into and, due to his familiarity with the Dallas police, Jack admitted he
received preferential treatment. The Police knew he carried a gun on his
person for protection because he carried the Club's payroll. Although he
had no concealed weapons permit, the Police would give him his gun back.
So what? He was protected. He was pals with the cops.
I don't need just one anecdote. You have to prove that he ALWAYS carried
a gun.
Post by Allan G. Johnson
After he shot Oswald, Ruby admitted to the FBI that he had his revolver
in his right front trouser pocket that Friday. In a handwritten note on a
3x5 card he wrote "Had I wanted to get to him, I could have reached in and
shot him when either Curry or Fritz brought him out into the hall". But
he didn't, same situation on Sat. when he attended the news conference.
If he wanted to shoot him he could have done it then.
Exactly as I keep saying and the cover-up keeps denying.
But he explained that he couldn't get clear shot because there were too
many people in the way.
Post by Allan G. Johnson
From RH, VB -The fact that Ruby did not kill Oswald on Friday night,
when it would have been so easy for him to have done so, is virtually
conclusive evidence, all by itself, that he didn't kill Oswald on Sunday
for anyone but himself (not a conspiracy).
False. He wanted to. What proves conspiracy are his connections and his
phone calls. Again I'll ask and you can't give an honest answer: Are you
in the regular habit of meeting with the Mafia boss of your city?
Post by Allan G. Johnson
As I mentioned in previous posts, why would co-conspirators trust or
use Ruby to carry out the killing of Oswald on Sunday, knowing he would be
highly protected, when he had two prime opportunities to do it on Friday
and Saturday?
Because they knew that Ruby could get past the police because he was a
police groupie.
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Just because he carried a gun on his person, does not mean he intends
to use it.
Except that he SAID he wanted to.
Allan G. Johnson
2018-06-14 02:31:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by John McAdams
On 8 Jun 2018 21:39:30 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Why did Ruby even go to the police station with his gun if he didn't
intend to shoot Oswald?
He carried his gun everywhere, Tony. I thought you knew that.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Why did he take his gun to the Western Union office if he didn't intend
to use it? Ditto!
Because he intended to shoot Oswald.
Back in May of 1954 Ruby was arrested and charged with carrying a
concealed weapon. His reason was that he carried large sums of money.
Since then, he was arrested over the years a few times for brawls he got
into and, due to his familiarity with the Dallas police, Jack admitted he
received preferential treatment. The Police knew he carried a gun on his
person for protection because he carried the Club's payroll. Although he
had no concealed weapons permit, the Police would give him his gun back.
After he shot Oswald, Ruby admitted to the FBI that he had his revolver
in his right front trouser pocket that Friday. In a handwritten note on a
3x5 card he wrote "Had I wanted to get to him, I could have reached in and
shot him when either Curry or Fritz brought him out into the hall". But
he didn't, same situation on Sat. when he attended the news conference.
If he wanted to shoot him he could have done it then.
From RH, VB -The fact that Ruby did not kill Oswald on Friday night,
when it would have been so easy for him to have done so, is virtually
conclusive evidence, all by itself, that he didn't kill Oswald on Sunday
for anyone but himself (not a conspiracy).
As I mentioned in previous posts, why would co-conspirators trust or
use Ruby to carry out the killing of Oswald on Sunday, knowing he would be
highly protected, when he had two prime opportunities to do it on Friday
and Saturday?
Just because he carried a gun on his person, does not mean he intends
to use it.
Ruby had a history of impulsive and erratic behavior. The shooting of
Oswald was a crime of opportunity and personal motive.
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-15 13:52:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by John McAdams
On 8 Jun 2018 21:39:30 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Why did Ruby even go to the police station with his gun if he didn't
intend to shoot Oswald?
He carried his gun everywhere, Tony. I thought you knew that.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Why did he take his gun to the Western Union office if he didn't intend
to use it? Ditto!
Because he intended to shoot Oswald.
Back in May of 1954 Ruby was arrested and charged with carrying a
concealed weapon. His reason was that he carried large sums of money.
Since then, he was arrested over the years a few times for brawls he got
into and, due to his familiarity with the Dallas police, Jack admitted he
received preferential treatment. The Police knew he carried a gun on his
person for protection because he carried the Club's payroll. Although he
had no concealed weapons permit, the Police would give him his gun back.
After he shot Oswald, Ruby admitted to the FBI that he had his revolver
in his right front trouser pocket that Friday. In a handwritten note on a
3x5 card he wrote "Had I wanted to get to him, I could have reached in and
shot him when either Curry or Fritz brought him out into the hall". But
he didn't, same situation on Sat. when he attended the news conference.
If he wanted to shoot him he could have done it then.
From RH, VB -The fact that Ruby did not kill Oswald on Friday night,
when it would have been so easy for him to have done so, is virtually
conclusive evidence, all by itself, that he didn't kill Oswald on Sunday
for anyone but himself (not a conspiracy).
As I mentioned in previous posts, why would co-conspirators trust or
use Ruby to carry out the killing of Oswald on Sunday, knowing he would be
highly protected, when he had two prime opportunities to do it on Friday
and Saturday?
Just because he carried a gun on his person, does not mean he intends
to use it.
Ruby had a history of impulsive and erratic behavior. The shooting of
Oswald was a crime of opportunity and personal motive.
Always cover up no matter what the crime.
OHLeeRedux
2018-06-16 16:28:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Allan G. Johnson
Post by John McAdams
On 8 Jun 2018 21:39:30 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Why did Ruby even go to the police station with his gun if he didn't
intend to shoot Oswald?
He carried his gun everywhere, Tony. I thought you knew that.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Why did he take his gun to the Western Union office if he didn't intend
to use it? Ditto!
Because he intended to shoot Oswald.
Back in May of 1954 Ruby was arrested and charged with carrying a
concealed weapon. His reason was that he carried large sums of money.
Since then, he was arrested over the years a few times for brawls he got
into and, due to his familiarity with the Dallas police, Jack admitted he
received preferential treatment. The Police knew he carried a gun on his
person for protection because he carried the Club's payroll. Although he
had no concealed weapons permit, the Police would give him his gun back.
After he shot Oswald, Ruby admitted to the FBI that he had his revolver
in his right front trouser pocket that Friday. In a handwritten note on a
3x5 card he wrote "Had I wanted to get to him, I could have reached in and
shot him when either Curry or Fritz brought him out into the hall". But
he didn't, same situation on Sat. when he attended the news conference.
If he wanted to shoot him he could have done it then.
From RH, VB -The fact that Ruby did not kill Oswald on Friday night,
when it would have been so easy for him to have done so, is virtually
conclusive evidence, all by itself, that he didn't kill Oswald on Sunday
for anyone but himself (not a conspiracy).
As I mentioned in previous posts, why would co-conspirators trust or
use Ruby to carry out the killing of Oswald on Sunday, knowing he would be
highly protected, when he had two prime opportunities to do it on Friday
and Saturday?
Just because he carried a gun on his person, does not mean he intends
to use it.
Ruby had a history of impulsive and erratic behavior. The shooting of
Oswald was a crime of opportunity and personal motive.
Always cover up no matter what the crime.
Always lie, no matter what the subject.
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-10 22:21:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by John McAdams
On 8 Jun 2018 21:39:30 -0400, Anthony Marsh
Post by Anthony Marsh
Why did Ruby even go to the police station with his gun if he didn't
intend to shoot Oswald?
He carried his gun everywhere, Tony. I thought you knew that.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Prove that it's true.
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-01 13:57:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
The more I notice a lack of brilliance anywhere. LHO was not
brilliant, rather a low-tech bare minimum sniper. The CIA was
on a training curve. The FBI was bureaucratic and dull witted.
The Secrete Service was brave but minimal. The DPD was in
slow transition from the Wild West to a modern urban policing
organization. They lost a Patrolman who evidently did not use
basic safety procedure. The DCSD was a step ahead with the
M-Squad look and DCSD Deputies seemed to do a better job
of crime scene investigation and questioning witnesses.
The DPD did locate the suspect and arrest him with no more
loss of life, but could not protect the him in transfer custody.
The situation at Police Headquarters was chaotic and unsafe.
This appalling situation would serve as a useful manual for
”How Not to Search a Warehouse Office Building”.
"How Not to Arrest and Protect a Suspect Who Just
Murdered a National Leader”.
Maybe the incompetence was done on purpose.
Post by claviger
In DPD Chief Curry's defense he was ordered to make all the
mistakes above at Police Headquarters and stage the transfer
as a disastrous media event. Not the intent, rather a debacle
in the making. This turned out to be the perfect set-up for a
Murphy's Law fiasco.
Allan G. Johnson
2018-06-02 00:59:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
The more I notice a lack of brilliance anywhere. LHO was not
brilliant, rather a low-tech bare minimum sniper. The CIA was
on a training curve. The FBI was bureaucratic and dull witted.
The Secrete Service was brave but minimal. The DPD was in
slow transition from the Wild West to a modern urban policing
organization. They lost a Patrolman who evidently did not use
basic safety procedure. The DCSD was a step ahead with the
M-Squad look and DCSD Deputies seemed to do a better job
of crime scene investigation and questioning witnesses.
The DPD did locate the suspect and arrest him with no more
loss of life, but could not protect the him in transfer custody.
The situation at Police Headquarters was chaotic and unsafe.
This appalling situation would serve as a useful manual for
”How Not to Search a Warehouse Office Building”.
"How Not to Arrest and Protect a Suspect Who Just
Murdered a National Leader”.
In DPD Chief Curry's defense he was ordered to make all the
mistakes above at Police Headquarters and stage the transfer
as a disastrous media event. Not the intent, rather a debacle
in the making. This turned out to be the perfect set-up for a
Murphy's Law fiasco.
(Oswald shooting) Naivety at it's finest, but a definite watershed moment
in Police procedures.
Ace Kefford
2018-06-12 02:34:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
The more I notice a lack of brilliance anywhere. LHO was not
brilliant, rather a low-tech bare minimum sniper. The CIA was
on a training curve. The FBI was bureaucratic and dull witted.
The Secrete Service was brave but minimal. The DPD was in
slow transition from the Wild West to a modern urban policing
organization. They lost a Patrolman who evidently did not use
basic safety procedure. The DCSD was a step ahead with the
M-Squad look and DCSD Deputies seemed to do a better job
of crime scene investigation and questioning witnesses.
The DPD did locate the suspect and arrest him with no more
loss of life, but could not protect the him in transfer custody.
The situation at Police Headquarters was chaotic and unsafe.
This appalling situation would serve as a useful manual for
”How Not to Search a Warehouse Office Building”.
"How Not to Arrest and Protect a Suspect Who Just
Murdered a National Leader”.
In DPD Chief Curry's defense he was ordered to make all the
mistakes above at Police Headquarters and stage the transfer
as a disastrous media event. Not the intent, rather a debacle
in the making. This turned out to be the perfect set-up for a
Murphy's Law fiasco.
Brilliant!
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-13 19:54:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ace Kefford
Post by claviger
The more I notice a lack of brilliance anywhere. LHO was not
brilliant, rather a low-tech bare minimum sniper. The CIA was
on a training curve. The FBI was bureaucratic and dull witted.
The Secrete Service was brave but minimal. The DPD was in
slow transition from the Wild West to a modern urban policing
organization. They lost a Patrolman who evidently did not use
basic safety procedure. The DCSD was a step ahead with the
M-Squad look and DCSD Deputies seemed to do a better job
of crime scene investigation and questioning witnesses.
The DPD did locate the suspect and arrest him with no more
loss of life, but could not protect the him in transfer custody.
The situation at Police Headquarters was chaotic and unsafe.
This appalling situation would serve as a useful manual for
”How Not to Search a Warehouse Office Building”.
"How Not to Arrest and Protect a Suspect Who Just
Murdered a National Leader”.
In DPD Chief Curry's defense he was ordered to make all the
mistakes above at Police Headquarters and stage the transfer
as a disastrous media event. Not the intent, rather a debacle
in the making. This turned out to be the perfect set-up for a
Murphy's Law fiasco.
The intent was to display Oswald to the press to prove that the police
had not beaten a confession out of him as they usually do.
Post by Ace Kefford
Brilliant!
d***@gmail.com
2018-06-14 14:55:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
The intent was to display Oswald to the press to prove that the police
had not beaten a confession out of him as they usually do.
I'm sure the DPD wanted to showcase to the public that Oswald was being
treated fairly, especially since Oswald was walking around with a beaten
face - that actually wasn't all that bad but gave the false impression of
being much worse due to the Mercurochrome stain used to treat it.

With regards to beating confessions out of suspects because that's what
"they usually do". Really? In fact, quite the opposite is true as far as
Captain Will Fritz was concerned. Fritz's style, as attested to by just
about everybody in the department, was one of calm, informal and
non-confrontational discussions that tended to put the suspect at ease
whereby Fritz used that trust to get MORE out of the suspect - sometimes
even a confession. In the good cop - bad cop way of interrogation, Fritz
would have represented the "good cop".

Of course, this style was completely ineffectual with Oswald because
Oswald was a particularly stubborn, uncooperative, and arrogant suspect -
the type not typically faced by Fritz.

In any case, your assertion that suspects were usually beaten is outright
hyperbole.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-15 01:54:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Anthony Marsh
The intent was to display Oswald to the press to prove that the police
had not beaten a confession out of him as they usually do.
I'm sure the DPD wanted to showcase to the public that Oswald was being
treated fairly, especially since Oswald was walking around with a beaten
face - that actually wasn't all that bad but gave the false impression of
being much worse due to the Mercurochrome stain used to treat it.
With regards to beating confessions out of suspects because that's what
"they usually do". Really? In fact, quite the opposite is true as far as
Captain Will Fritz was concerned. Fritz's style, as attested to by just
about everybody in the department, was one of calm, informal and
non-confrontational discussions that tended to put the suspect at ease
whereby Fritz used that trust to get MORE out of the suspect - sometimes
even a confession. In the good cop - bad cop way of interrogation, Fritz
would have represented the "good cop".
I'm not talking about PR. I'm talking about what the press knew.
Post by d***@gmail.com
Of course, this style was completely ineffectual with Oswald because
Oswald was a particularly stubborn, uncooperative, and arrogant suspect -
the type not typically faced by Fritz.
So you are OK with Fritz typing up a confession and making someone sign
it without getting to read it and beat them if they didn't?
Post by d***@gmail.com
In any case, your assertion that suspects were usually beaten is outright
hyperbole.
It's called History.
Post by d***@gmail.com
David Emerling
Memphis, TN
d***@gmail.com
2018-06-16 05:42:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Anthony Marsh
The intent was to display Oswald to the press to prove that the police
had not beaten a confession out of him as they usually do.
I'm sure the DPD wanted to showcase to the public that Oswald was being
treated fairly, especially since Oswald was walking around with a beaten
face - that actually wasn't all that bad but gave the false impression of
being much worse due to the Mercurochrome stain used to treat it.
With regards to beating confessions out of suspects because that's what
"they usually do". Really? In fact, quite the opposite is true as far as
Captain Will Fritz was concerned. Fritz's style, as attested to by just
about everybody in the department, was one of calm, informal and
non-confrontational discussions that tended to put the suspect at ease
whereby Fritz used that trust to get MORE out of the suspect - sometimes
even a confession. In the good cop - bad cop way of interrogation, Fritz
would have represented the "good cop".
I'm not talking about PR. I'm talking about what the press knew.
Post by d***@gmail.com
Of course, this style was completely ineffectual with Oswald because
Oswald was a particularly stubborn, uncooperative, and arrogant suspect -
the type not typically faced by Fritz.
So you are OK with Fritz typing up a confession and making someone sign
it without getting to read it and beat them if they didn't?
Post by d***@gmail.com
In any case, your assertion that suspects were usually beaten is outright
hyperbole.
It's called History.
But not with Captain Will Fritz - and isn't that the only thing that
matters in this discussion regarding beating confessions out of suspects?

We're not talking about a wide swath of "history". We're SPECIFICALLY
talking about the treatment Oswald received from Homicide Detective Will
Fritz.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-24 00:17:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Anthony Marsh
The intent was to display Oswald to the press to prove that the police
had not beaten a confession out of him as they usually do.
I'm sure the DPD wanted to showcase to the public that Oswald was being
treated fairly, especially since Oswald was walking around with a beaten
face - that actually wasn't all that bad but gave the false impression of
being much worse due to the Mercurochrome stain used to treat it.
With regards to beating confessions out of suspects because that's what
"they usually do". Really? In fact, quite the opposite is true as far as
Captain Will Fritz was concerned. Fritz's style, as attested to by just
about everybody in the department, was one of calm, informal and
non-confrontational discussions that tended to put the suspect at ease
whereby Fritz used that trust to get MORE out of the suspect - sometimes
even a confession. In the good cop - bad cop way of interrogation, Fritz
would have represented the "good cop".
I'm not talking about PR. I'm talking about what the press knew.
Post by d***@gmail.com
Of course, this style was completely ineffectual with Oswald because
Oswald was a particularly stubborn, uncooperative, and arrogant suspect -
the type not typically faced by Fritz.
So you are OK with Fritz typing up a confession and making someone sign
it without getting to read it and beat them if they didn't?
Post by d***@gmail.com
In any case, your assertion that suspects were usually beaten is outright
hyperbole.
It's called History.
But not with Captain Will Fritz - and isn't that the only thing that
matters in this discussion regarding beating confessions out of suspects?
We're not talking about a wide swath of "history". We're SPECIFICALLY
talking about the treatment Oswald received from Homicide Detective Will
Fritz.
And I'm pointing out the way Buell Frazier was falsely accused of being
a conspirator by Fritz, who wrote up a confession for him and told him
to sign it and threatened to beat him up. That's not ancient history.
Post by d***@gmail.com
David Emerling
Memphis, TN
claviger
2018-06-14 19:17:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anthony Marsh
The intent was to display Oswald to the press to prove that the police
had not beaten a confession out of him as they usually do.
Yes, that directive came down from the Mayor's Office.
PR vs Prisoner Security. A bad idea from start to finish.
It made the DPD look like a real version Keystone Cops.
For the record Chief Curry was opposed to this Publicity
Stunt.
d***@gmail.com
2018-06-12 21:21:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by claviger
The DPD did locate the suspect and arrest him with no more
loss of life, but could not protect the him in transfer custody.
The situation at Police Headquarters was chaotic and unsafe.
The DPD was eagerly accommodating the press in effort to avoid being
criticized for failing to adequately protect the president in THEIR city.
Quite frankly, this was a big embarrassment to Dallas, especially in the
context of how Adlai Stevenson was treated just the month prior.

The DPD was ingratiating the press with extreme cooperativeness -
unfortunately, to a fault. They made themselves available and gave many
interviews - almost never being standoffish with a "No comment!"

The swarms of press around Oswald during his brief time under the control
of the DPD created the perfect cover for a kook like Jack Ruby to slip
through the cracks and do what he did. This would never happen these days
where such heinous murderers wear bulletproof vests with the press being
forced to be a great distance away.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN
Anthony Marsh
2018-06-13 14:53:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by claviger
The DPD did locate the suspect and arrest him with no more
loss of life, but could not protect the him in transfer custody.
The situation at Police Headquarters was chaotic and unsafe.
The DPD was eagerly accommodating the press in effort to avoid being
criticized for failing to adequately protect the president in THEIR city.
Quite frankly, this was a big embarrassment to Dallas, especially in the
context of how Adlai Stevenson was treated just the month prior.
The DPD was ingratiating the press with extreme cooperativeness -
unfortunately, to a fault. They made themselves available and gave many
interviews - almost never being standoffish with a "No comment!"
They also had to prove to the press that they weren't beat a confession
out of the suspect.
Post by d***@gmail.com
The swarms of press around Oswald during his brief time under the control
of the DPD created the perfect cover for a kook like Jack Ruby to slip
through the cracks and do what he did. This would never happen these days
where such heinous murderers wear bulletproof vests with the press being
forced to be a great distance away.
David Emerling
Memphis, TN
Allan G. Johnson
2018-06-14 02:27:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by claviger
The DPD did locate the suspect and arrest him with no more
loss of life, but could not protect the him in transfer custody.
The situation at Police Headquarters was chaotic and unsafe.
The DPD was eagerly accommodating the press in effort to avoid being
criticized for failing to adequately protect the president in THEIR city.
Quite frankly, this was a big embarrassment to Dallas, especially in the
context of how Adlai Stevenson was treated just the month prior.
The DPD was ingratiating the press with extreme cooperativeness -
unfortunately, to a fault. They made themselves available and gave many
interviews - almost never being standoffish with a "No comment!"
The swarms of press around Oswald during his brief time under the control
of the DPD created the perfect cover for a kook like Jack Ruby to slip
through the cracks and do what he did. This would never happen these days
where such heinous murderers wear bulletproof vests with the press being
forced to be a great distance away.
David Emerling
Memphis, TN
Can you imagine today the police parading a murder suspect and weapon
up and down the hallways full of press and other people, even before
they've been fully interrogated or even charged?
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