Discussion:
Lipsey: I don’t give too much credence to any
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John McAdams
2017-06-13 00:10:41 UTC
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From an e-mail correspondent:

https://www.225batonrouge.com/our-city/richard-lipsey-recalls-present-president-john-f-kennedys-autopsy
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Beyond Wikipedia
2017-06-13 18:42:52 UTC
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Richard "I heard the autopsy doctors discussing JFK being shot in the head
twice" Lipsey?
Anthony Marsh
2017-06-14 13:50:28 UTC
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Post by Beyond Wikipedia
Richard "I heard the autopsy doctors discussing JFK being shot in the head
twice" Lipsey?
How about SOURCING and QUOTING what you read somewhere.
You did not hear RIchard Lipsey talking about JFK being shot twice in
the head. Cyril Wecht used to speculate that there MIGHT have been two
shots to the head.

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/med_testimony/Lipsey_1-18-78/HSCA-Lipsey.htm



I can remember in my own mind, they're trying to read something into it
that didn't happen. One book came out that he was shot from three
different angles, another report came out he was only shot once, another
that he was shot seven times. All kinds of???Everybody had their own
versions of what happened, how many sounds they heard, and the angles of
the fire they came from. I definitely remember the doctors commenting they
were convinced that the shots came from the same direction and from the
same type of weapon -- and it was three shots.

Q: Did they also feel --did the doctors state that three separate
bullets had struck?

LIPSEY: This is one other thing, that to the best of my memory, today, and
remembering what I thought about when all these reports came out
absolutely, unequivocally yes, they were convinced that he had been shot
three times.

Q: It's unclear to me from the sketch that you did where there are three
bullets.

LIPSEY: One on the right side of his head, one on the upper point of his
neck and one on the lower part of his neck.

That's ONE in the head and 2 in the torso.
Beyond Wikipedia
2017-06-15 00:49:03 UTC
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Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Beyond Wikipedia
Richard "I heard the autopsy doctors discussing JFK being shot in the head
twice" Lipsey?
How about SOURCING and QUOTING what you read somewhere.
You did not hear RIchard Lipsey talking about JFK being shot twice in
the head. Cyril Wecht used to speculate that there MIGHT have been two
shots to the head.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/med_testimony/Lipsey_1-18-78/HSCA-Lipsey.htm
I can remember in my own mind, they're trying to read something into it
that didn't happen. One book came out that he was shot from three
different angles, another report came out he was only shot once, another
that he was shot seven times. All kinds of???Everybody had their own
versions of what happened, how many sounds they heard, and the angles of
the fire they came from. I definitely remember the doctors commenting they
were convinced that the shots came from the same direction and from the
same type of weapon -- and it was three shots.
Q: Did they also feel --did the doctors state that three separate
bullets had struck?
LIPSEY: This is one other thing, that to the best of my memory, today, and
remembering what I thought about when all these reports came out
absolutely, unequivocally yes, they were convinced that he had been shot
three times.
Q: It's unclear to me from the sketch that you did where there are three
bullets.
LIPSEY: One on the right side of his head, one on the upper point of his
neck and one on the lower part of his neck.
That's ONE in the head and 2 in the torso.
No, Lipsey is referring to the EOP entry wound as the "upper neck". Look
at the diagram he drew for the HSCA, it makes his testimony clear. He's
saying that one shot hit him in the back creating a shallow wound, another
shot hit him near the EOP and exited the throat, and another shot created
a tangential wound on the side of the head.
bigdog
2017-06-15 17:46:53 UTC
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Post by Beyond Wikipedia
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Beyond Wikipedia
Richard "I heard the autopsy doctors discussing JFK being shot in the head
twice" Lipsey?
How about SOURCING and QUOTING what you read somewhere.
You did not hear RIchard Lipsey talking about JFK being shot twice in
the head. Cyril Wecht used to speculate that there MIGHT have been two
shots to the head.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/med_testimony/Lipsey_1-18-78/HSCA-Lipsey.htm
I can remember in my own mind, they're trying to read something into it
that didn't happen. One book came out that he was shot from three
different angles, another report came out he was only shot once, another
that he was shot seven times. All kinds of???Everybody had their own
versions of what happened, how many sounds they heard, and the angles of
the fire they came from. I definitely remember the doctors commenting they
were convinced that the shots came from the same direction and from the
same type of weapon -- and it was three shots.
Q: Did they also feel --did the doctors state that three separate
bullets had struck?
LIPSEY: This is one other thing, that to the best of my memory, today, and
remembering what I thought about when all these reports came out
absolutely, unequivocally yes, they were convinced that he had been shot
three times.
Q: It's unclear to me from the sketch that you did where there are three
bullets.
LIPSEY: One on the right side of his head, one on the upper point of his
neck and one on the lower part of his neck.
That's ONE in the head and 2 in the torso.
No, Lipsey is referring to the EOP entry wound as the "upper neck". Look
at the diagram he drew for the HSCA, it makes his testimony clear. He's
saying that one shot hit him in the back creating a shallow wound, another
shot hit him near the EOP and exited the throat, and another shot created
a tangential wound on the side of the head.
That explanation is absolutely bizarre. Lipsey didn't say anything that
remotely suggests that.
Beyond Wikipedia
2017-06-16 01:06:03 UTC
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Post by bigdog
That explanation is absolutely bizarre. Lipsey didn't say anything that
remotely suggests that.
LIPSEY: The bullet entered lower part of the head or upper part of the
neck. [long pause] To the best of my knowledge, came out the front of the
neck. But the one that I remember they spent so much time on, obviously,
was the one they found did not come out. There was a bullet -- that's my
vivid recollection cause that's all they talked about. For about two hours
all they talked about was finding that bullet. To the rest of my
recollection they found some particles but they never found the bullet --
pieces of it, trances of it. The best of my knowledge, this is one thing I
definitely remember they just never found that whole bullet.

Q: What was it you observed that made you feel that exited -- the bullet
that entered the rear portion of his head exited in the throat area?

LIPSEY: The throat area. Right. The lower throat area.

Q: What, were there markings there that indicated that the doctors came to
that conclusion?

LIPSEY: I saw where, you know, they were working and also listening to
their conclusions.

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/med_testimony/Lipsey_1-18-78/HSCA-Lipsey.htm
bigdog
2017-06-17 03:21:31 UTC
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Post by Beyond Wikipedia
Post by bigdog
That explanation is absolutely bizarre. Lipsey didn't say anything that
remotely suggests that.
LIPSEY: The bullet entered lower part of the head or upper part of the
neck. [long pause] To the best of my knowledge, came out the front of the
neck. But the one that I remember they spent so much time on, obviously,
was the one they found did not come out. There was a bullet -- that's my
vivid recollection cause that's all they talked about. For about two hours
all they talked about was finding that bullet. To the rest of my
recollection they found some particles but they never found the bullet --
pieces of it, trances of it. The best of my knowledge, this is one thing I
definitely remember they just never found that whole bullet.
Q: What was it you observed that made you feel that exited -- the bullet
that entered the rear portion of his head exited in the throat area?
LIPSEY: The throat area. Right. The lower throat area.
Q: What, were there markings there that indicated that the doctors came to
that conclusion?
LIPSEY: I saw where, you know, they were working and also listening to
their conclusions.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/med_testimony/Lipsey_1-18-78/HSCA-Lipsey.htm
Where's the part where Lipsey says the EOP entry wound was the "upper
neck"?
mainframetech
2017-06-17 03:25:24 UTC
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Post by Beyond Wikipedia
Post by bigdog
That explanation is absolutely bizarre. Lipsey didn't say anything that
remotely suggests that.
LIPSEY: The bullet entered lower part of the head or upper part of the
neck. [long pause] To the best of my knowledge, came out the front of the
neck. But the one that I remember they spent so much time on, obviously,
was the one they found did not come out. There was a bullet -- that's my
vivid recollection cause that's all they talked about. For about two hours
all they talked about was finding that bullet. To the rest of my
recollection they found some particles but they never found the bullet --
pieces of it, trances of it. The best of my knowledge, this is one thing I
definitely remember they just never found that whole bullet.
Q: What was it you observed that made you feel that exited -- the bullet
that entered the rear portion of his head exited in the throat area?
LIPSEY: The throat area. Right. The lower throat area.
Q: What, were there markings there that indicated that the doctors came to
that conclusion?
LIPSEY: I saw where, you know, they were working and also listening to
their conclusions.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/med_testimony/Lipsey_1-18-78/HSCA-Lipsey.htm
In the earlier part of the autopsy, the prosectors ALL realized there
was NO EXIT for that bullet that hit the upper back (not any part of the
'neck'). Here's the sworn testimony of James Sibert, FBI agent, who was
observing the whole autopsy:

"But when they raised him up, then they
found this back wound. And that’s when they
started probing with the rubber glove and the
finger, and - and also with the chrome probe.
And that’s just before, of course, I made
this call, because they were at a loss to explain
what had happened to this bullet. They couldn’t
find any bullet.
And they said, ‘There's no exit.” Finck,
in particular, said, "There’s no exit.” And they
said that you could feel it with the end of the
finger - I mean, the depth of this wound."
From: http://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/arrb/medical_testimony/pdf/Sibert_9-11-97.pdf
Page 111


They later got verification of that conclusion when they had removed
the organs and saw that the pleura and right lung had NOT been penetrated,
and had NO tears or punctures. The Autopsy Report (AR) also stated that
the pleura was still "intact". Therefore NO bullet got past that point in
the body, and either was removed during the clandestine work done on the
body by Humes and Boswell, or it fell out of the back as Jerrol Custer
said in his sworn testimony:

"When I lifted the body up to take films of
the torso, and the lumbar spine, and the pelvis,
this is when a king-size fragment - I’d say -
estimate around three, four sonometers - fell from
the back. And this is when Dr. Finck come over
with a pair of forceps, picked it up, and took -
That’s the last time I ever saw it.
Now, it was big enough -That’s about,
I’d say, an inch and a half. My finger-my small
finger. First joints."

From: http://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/arrb/medical_testimony/pdf/Custer_10-28-97.pdf

Page 53

Sonometer = centimeter, and 3-4 centimeters is long enough to be many
types of bullet.

Chris
bigdog
2017-06-17 23:31:59 UTC
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Post by mainframetech
Post by Beyond Wikipedia
Post by bigdog
That explanation is absolutely bizarre. Lipsey didn't say anything that
remotely suggests that.
LIPSEY: The bullet entered lower part of the head or upper part of the
neck. [long pause] To the best of my knowledge, came out the front of the
neck. But the one that I remember they spent so much time on, obviously,
was the one they found did not come out. There was a bullet -- that's my
vivid recollection cause that's all they talked about. For about two hours
all they talked about was finding that bullet. To the rest of my
recollection they found some particles but they never found the bullet --
pieces of it, trances of it. The best of my knowledge, this is one thing I
definitely remember they just never found that whole bullet.
Q: What was it you observed that made you feel that exited -- the bullet
that entered the rear portion of his head exited in the throat area?
LIPSEY: The throat area. Right. The lower throat area.
Q: What, were there markings there that indicated that the doctors came to
that conclusion?
LIPSEY: I saw where, you know, they were working and also listening to
their conclusions.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/med_testimony/Lipsey_1-18-78/HSCA-Lipsey.htm
In the earlier part of the autopsy, the prosectors ALL realized there
was NO EXIT for that bullet that hit the upper back (not any part of the
'neck').
No they THOUGHT there was no exit wound because they had an entry wound in
the back and no apparent corresponding exit wound. That observation was
made based on limited information. They were really baffled when two sets
of x-rays failed to reveal a bullet which they thought should still be in
the body. Stumped by those facts, entry wound and no bullet in the body,
they floated some bizarre ideas like the ice bullet and the bullet falling
out during heart massage. Later on when they opened up the chest cavity
and observed the trail of damaged tissue leading from the exit wound to
the trachea they began to suspect that the tracheostomy incision had been
performed over a bullet hole in the throat, a suspicion that was confirmed
when they contacted Parkland. Mystery solved. But you, being a conspiracy
hobbyist, continue to insist they must stick with the early observation of
"no exit" no matter what they later learned. You insist that comment was a
conclusion rather than a hypothesis that proved to be incorrect.
Post by mainframetech
Here's the sworn testimony of James Sibert, FBI agent, who was
"But when they raised him up, then they
found this back wound. And that’s when they
started probing with the rubber glove and the
finger, and - and also with the chrome probe.
And that’s just before, of course, I made
this call, because they were at a loss to explain
what had happened to this bullet. They couldn’t
find any bullet.
And they said, ‘There's no exit.” Finck,
in particular, said, "There’s no exit.” And they
said that you could feel it with the end of the
finger - I mean, the depth of this wound."
From: http://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/arrb/medical_testimony/pdf/Sibert_9-11-97.pdf
Page 111
They later got verification of that conclusion when they had removed
the organs and saw that the pleura and right lung had NOT been penetrated,
and had NO tears or punctures.
No, they later saw evidence that the "no exit" idea was just plain wrong.
Post by mainframetech
The Autopsy Report (AR) also stated that
the pleura was still "intact".
Of course it was. The bullet didn't pass through it. It passed over the
top of it.
Post by mainframetech
Therefore NO bullet got past that point in
the body, and either was removed during the clandestine work done on the
body by Humes and Boswell, or it fell out of the back as Jerrol Custer
You seem to be one of the few people in this world who actually believes
that nonsense and none of the others is any more qualified than you to
make such a judgement.
Post by mainframetech
"When I lifted the body up to take films of
the torso, and the lumbar spine, and the pelvis,
this is when a king-size fragment - I’d say -
estimate around three, four sonometers - fell from
the back. And this is when Dr. Finck come over
with a pair of forceps, picked it up, and took -
That’s the last time I ever saw it.
Now, it was big enough -That’s about,
I’d say, an inch and a half. My finger-my small
finger. First joints."
From: http://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/arrb/medical_testimony/pdf/Custer_10-28-97.pdf
Page 53
Sonometer = centimeter, and 3-4 centimeters is long enough to be many
types of bullet.
You continue to put your faith in a lying bozo who doesn't even know the
difference between a sonometer and a centimeter.
mainframetech
2017-06-18 23:23:28 UTC
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Post by bigdog
Post by mainframetech
Post by Beyond Wikipedia
Post by bigdog
That explanation is absolutely bizarre. Lipsey didn't say anything that
remotely suggests that.
LIPSEY: The bullet entered lower part of the head or upper part of the
neck. [long pause] To the best of my knowledge, came out the front of the
neck. But the one that I remember they spent so much time on, obviously,
was the one they found did not come out. There was a bullet -- that's my
vivid recollection cause that's all they talked about. For about two hours
all they talked about was finding that bullet. To the rest of my
recollection they found some particles but they never found the bullet --
pieces of it, trances of it. The best of my knowledge, this is one thing I
definitely remember they just never found that whole bullet.
Q: What was it you observed that made you feel that exited -- the bullet
that entered the rear portion of his head exited in the throat area?
LIPSEY: The throat area. Right. The lower throat area.
Q: What, were there markings there that indicated that the doctors came to
that conclusion?
LIPSEY: I saw where, you know, they were working and also listening to
their conclusions.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/med_testimony/Lipsey_1-18-78/HSCA-Lipsey.htm
In the earlier part of the autopsy, the prosectors ALL realized there
was NO EXIT for that bullet that hit the upper back (not any part of the
'neck').
No they THOUGHT there was no exit wound because they had an entry wound in
the back and no apparent corresponding exit wound. That observation was
made based on limited information.
I agree. However, later they got validation of their first thoughts.
I'll fill in the proof later.
Post by bigdog
They were really baffled when two sets
of x-rays failed to reveal a bullet which they thought should still be in
the body. Stumped by those facts, entry wound and no bullet in the body,
they floated some bizarre ideas like the ice bullet and the bullet falling
out during heart massage.
The "ice bullet" idea was from James Sibert, FBI agent,. who felt he had
to make a call about it, when he heard the prosectors couldn't find the
back wound bullet. Another possibility that weacaped everyone was the
sworn testimony of Jerrol Custer, X-ray Technician who said the following:

"When I lifted the body up to take films of
the torso, and the lumbar spine, and the pelvis,
this is when a king-size fragment - I’d say -
estimate around three, four sonometers - fell from
the back. And this is when Dr. Finck come over
with a pair of forceps, picked it up, and took -
That’s the last time I ever saw it.
Now, it was big enough -That’s about,
I’d say, an inch and a half. My finger-my small
finger. First joints."

From: http://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/arrb/medical_testimony/pdf/Custer_10-28-97.pdf

Page 53

Sonometer = centimeter, and 3-4 centimeters is long enough to be many
types of bullet.
Post by bigdog
Later on when they opened up the chest cavity
and observed the trail of damaged tissue leading from the exit wound to
the trachea they began to suspect that the tracheostomy incision had been
performed over a bullet hole in the throat, a suspicion that was confirmed
when they contacted Parkland.
Sorry, they did NOT find a "trail of damaged tissue" from the back
wound to the throat wound. If you go back and read the Autopsy Report
(AR) again, you'll see that they say that the "pleura was INTACT". The
pleura is tissue that was between the back wound and the throat wound, so
the bullet never passed that point, or the pleura would have been torn or
punctured. As well, there was NO reference to any dissection of such a
path you describe, and that's the standard method for determining the path
of a bullet. The AR also says "The missile path through the fascia and
musculature cannot be easily probed." And then it says nothing about any
prof of that path.
Post by bigdog
Mystery solved. But you, being a conspiracy
hobbyist, continue to insist they must stick with the early observation of
"no exit" no matter what they later learned. You insist that comment was a
conclusion rather than a hypothesis that proved to be incorrect.
Post by mainframetech
Here's the sworn testimony of James Sibert, FBI agent, who was
"But when they raised him up, then they
found this back wound. And that’s when they
started probing with the rubber glove and the
finger, and - and also with the chrome probe.
And that’s just before, of course, I made
this call, because they were at a loss to explain
what had happened to this bullet. They couldn’t
find any bullet.
And they said, ‘There's no exit.” Finck,
in particular, said, "There’s no exit.” And they
said that you could feel it with the end of the
finger - I mean, the depth of this wound."
From: http://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/arrb/medical_testimony/pdf/Sibert_9-11-97.pdf
Page 111
They later got verification of that conclusion when they had removed
the organs and saw that the pleura and right lung had NOT been penetrated,
and had NO tears or punctures.
No, they later saw evidence that the "no exit" idea was just plain wrong.
Post by mainframetech
The Autopsy Report (AR) also stated that
the pleura was still "intact".
Of course it was. The bullet didn't pass through it. It passed over the
top of it.
Nope. Bullets don't make curves in cases like this around tissues,
they go through them. The Pleura and the right lung it encases both had
bruises of about 2 inches in diameter, clearly showing that they both were
hit by the bullet, yet there was NO tears or punctures in them.
Post by bigdog
Post by mainframetech
Therefore NO bullet got past that point in
the body, and either was removed during the clandestine work done on the
body by Humes and Boswell, or it fell out of the back as Jerrol Custer
You seem to be one of the few people in this world who actually believes
that nonsense and none of the others is any more qualified than you to
make such a judgement.
You forget that I'm not making a judgment, I'm repeating what a
technician said under oath. But let's go a little further, since you're
an unbeliever. Here's the statement of one of the members of the autopsy
team Paul O'Connor:

"O'Connor: We started out with a rigid probe and found that it only went
in so far. I'd say maybe an inch and a quarter. It didn't go any further
than that. So we used a malleable probe and bent it a little bit and found
out that the bullet entered the body, went through the intercostal
muscles—the muscles in between the ribs. The bullet went in
through the muscles, didn't touch any of the ribs, arched downwards, hit
the back of the pleural cavity, which encases the lungs, both front and
back. It bounced off that cavity and stopped. It actually went down and
stopped. Went through the ribs and stopped. So we didn't know the track of
the bullet until we eviscerated the body later. That's what happened at
that time. We traced the bullet path down and found out it didn't traverse
the body. It did not go in one side and come out the other side of the
body.
Law: You can be reasonably sure of that?
O'Connor: Absolutely.
Law: It was just from the probe then?
O'Connor: Oh yes.
Law: And these doctors knew that?
O'Connor: Absolutely.
Law: While it happened?
O'Connor: Absolutely."

From: "In the Eyes of History" by William Matson Law, pages 40-41
https://www.krusch.com/books/kennedy/In_The_Eye_Of_History.pdf
Post by bigdog
Post by mainframetech
"When I lifted the body up to take films of
the torso, and the lumbar spine, and the pelvis,
this is when a king-size fragment - I’d say -
estimate around three, four sonometers - fell from
the back. And this is when Dr. Finck come over
with a pair of forceps, picked it up, and took -
That’s the last time I ever saw it.
Now, it was big enough -That’s about,
I’d say, an inch and a half. My finger-my small
finger. First joints."
From: http://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/arrb/medical_testimony/pdf/Custer_10-28-97.pdf
Page 53
Sonometer = centimeter, and 3-4 centimeters is long enough to be many
types of bullet.
You continue to put your faith in a lying bozo who doesn't even know the
difference between a sonometer and a centimeter.
I wonder how you figured out that he was a "lying bozo". I guess I
have to inform you as well as the other bozo that thought that, sonometer
is used in the medical profession, probably a bastardization of Centimeter
in a French accent. The X-ray technician probably picked it up from the
doctors around Bethesda. It was 1963, not current day.

There is other evidence that the prosectors had to lie under orders in
the Autopsy Report (AR). However, when the order of silence was
dismissed, and the ARRB came into being, many of the forgotten enlisted
men, who had been ignored, were able to make statements and clear up a lot
of cover up.

The whole purpose in stealing the body and limousine off to Washington
was to get the body autopsied at a military hospital so that orders would
be given with the right excuse, and the orders would be followed, which
was the case here.

Chris
Anthony Marsh
2017-06-19 23:21:28 UTC
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Post by mainframetech
Post by bigdog
Post by mainframetech
Post by Beyond Wikipedia
Post by bigdog
That explanation is absolutely bizarre. Lipsey didn't say anything that
remotely suggests that.
LIPSEY: The bullet entered lower part of the head or upper part of the
neck. [long pause] To the best of my knowledge, came out the front of the
neck. But the one that I remember they spent so much time on, obviously,
was the one they found did not come out. There was a bullet -- that's my
vivid recollection cause that's all they talked about. For about two hours
all they talked about was finding that bullet. To the rest of my
recollection they found some particles but they never found the bullet --
pieces of it, trances of it. The best of my knowledge, this is one thing I
definitely remember they just never found that whole bullet.
Q: What was it you observed that made you feel that exited -- the bullet
that entered the rear portion of his head exited in the throat area?
LIPSEY: The throat area. Right. The lower throat area.
Q: What, were there markings there that indicated that the doctors came to
that conclusion?
LIPSEY: I saw where, you know, they were working and also listening to
their conclusions.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/med_testimony/Lipsey_1-18-78/HSCA-Lipsey.htm
In the earlier part of the autopsy, the prosectors ALL realized there
was NO EXIT for that bullet that hit the upper back (not any part of the
'neck').
No they THOUGHT there was no exit wound because they had an entry wound in
the back and no apparent corresponding exit wound. That observation was
made based on limited information.
I agree. However, later they got validation of their first thoughts.
I'll fill in the proof later.
Never.
Post by mainframetech
Post by bigdog
They were really baffled when two sets
of x-rays failed to reveal a bullet which they thought should still be in
the body. Stumped by those facts, entry wound and no bullet in the body,
they floated some bizarre ideas like the ice bullet and the bullet falling
out during heart massage.
The "ice bullet" idea was from James Sibert, FBI agent,. who felt he had
to make a call about it, when he heard the prosectors couldn't find the
back wound bullet. Another possibility that weacaped everyone was the
"When I lifted the body up to take films of
the torso, and the lumbar spine, and the pelvis,
this is when a king-size fragment - I???d say -
estimate around three, four sonometers - fell from
the back. And this is when Dr. Finck come over
with a pair of forceps, picked it up, and took -
That???s the last time I ever saw it.
Now, it was big enough -That???s about,
I???d say, an inch and a half. My finger-my small
finger. First joints."
From: http://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/arrb/medical_testimony/pdf/Custer_10-28-97.pdf
Page 53
Sonometer = centimeter, and 3-4 centimeters is long enough to be many
types of bullet.
Post by bigdog
Later on when they opened up the chest cavity
and observed the trail of damaged tissue leading from the exit wound to
the trachea they began to suspect that the tracheostomy incision had been
performed over a bullet hole in the throat, a suspicion that was confirmed
when they contacted Parkland.
Sorry, they did NOT find a "trail of damaged tissue" from the back
wound to the throat wound. If you go back and read the Autopsy Report
(AR) again, you'll see that they say that the "pleura was INTACT". The
pleura is tissue that was between the back wound and the throat wound, so
the bullet never passed that point, or the pleura would have been torn or
punctured. As well, there was NO reference to any dissection of such a
path you describe, and that's the standard method for determining the path
of a bullet. The AR also says "The missile path through the fascia and
musculature cannot be easily probed." And then it says nothing about any
prof of that path.
Post by bigdog
Mystery solved. But you, being a conspiracy
hobbyist, continue to insist they must stick with the early observation of
"no exit" no matter what they later learned. You insist that comment was a
conclusion rather than a hypothesis that proved to be incorrect.
Post by mainframetech
Here's the sworn testimony of James Sibert, FBI agent, who was
"But when they raised him up, then they
found this back wound. And that???s when they
started probing with the rubber glove and the
finger, and - and also with the chrome probe.
And that???s just before, of course, I made
this call, because they were at a loss to explain
what had happened to this bullet. They couldn???t
find any bullet.
And they said, ???There's no exit.??? Finck,
in particular, said, "There???s no exit.??? And they
said that you could feel it with the end of the
finger - I mean, the depth of this wound."
From: http://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/arrb/medical_testimony/pdf/Sibert_9-11-97.pdf
Page 111
They later got verification of that conclusion when they had removed
the organs and saw that the pleura and right lung had NOT been penetrated,
and had NO tears or punctures.
No, they later saw evidence that the "no exit" idea was just plain wrong.
Post by mainframetech
The Autopsy Report (AR) also stated that
the pleura was still "intact".
Of course it was. The bullet didn't pass through it. It passed over the
top of it.
Nope. Bullets don't make curves in cases like this around tissues,
they go through them. The Pleura and the right lung it encases both had
bruises of about 2 inches in diameter, clearly showing that they both were
hit by the bullet, yet there was NO tears or punctures in them.
Post by bigdog
Post by mainframetech
Therefore NO bullet got past that point in
the body, and either was removed during the clandestine work done on the
body by Humes and Boswell, or it fell out of the back as Jerrol Custer
You seem to be one of the few people in this world who actually believes
that nonsense and none of the others is any more qualified than you to
make such a judgement.
You forget that I'm not making a judgment, I'm repeating what a
technician said under oath. But let's go a little further, since you're
an unbeliever. Here's the statement of one of the members of the autopsy
"O'Connor: We started out with a rigid probe and found that it only went
in so far. I'd say maybe an inch and a quarter. It didn't go any further
than that. So we used a malleable probe and bent it a little bit and found
out that the bullet entered the body, went through the intercostal
muscles???the muscles in between the ribs. The bullet went in
through the muscles, didn't touch any of the ribs, arched downwards, hit
the back of the pleural cavity, which encases the lungs, both front and
back. It bounced off that cavity and stopped. It actually went down and
stopped. Went through the ribs and stopped. So we didn't know the track of
the bullet until we eviscerated the body later. That's what happened at
that time. We traced the bullet path down and found out it didn't traverse
the body. It did not go in one side and come out the other side of the
body.
Law: You can be reasonably sure of that?
O'Connor: Absolutely.
Law: It was just from the probe then?
O'Connor: Oh yes.
Law: And these doctors knew that?
O'Connor: Absolutely.
Law: While it happened?
O'Connor: Absolutely."
From: "In the Eyes of History" by William Matson Law, pages 40-41
https://www.krusch.com/books/kennedy/In_The_Eye_Of_History.pdf
Post by bigdog
Post by mainframetech
"When I lifted the body up to take films of
the torso, and the lumbar spine, and the pelvis,
this is when a king-size fragment - I???d say -
estimate around three, four sonometers - fell from
the back. And this is when Dr. Finck come over
with a pair of forceps, picked it up, and took -
That???s the last time I ever saw it.
Now, it was big enough -That???s about,
I???d say, an inch and a half. My finger-my small
finger. First joints."
From: http://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/arrb/medical_testimony/pdf/Custer_10-28-97.pdf
Page 53
Sonometer = centimeter, and 3-4 centimeters is long enough to be many
types of bullet.
You continue to put your faith in a lying bozo who doesn't even know the
difference between a sonometer and a centimeter.
I wonder how you figured out that he was a "lying bozo". I guess I
have to inform you as well as the other bozo that thought that, sonometer
is used in the medical profession, probably a bastardization of Centimeter
in a French accent. The X-ray technician probably picked it up from the
doctors around Bethesda. It was 1963, not current day.
There is other evidence that the prosectors had to lie under orders in
the Autopsy Report (AR). However, when the order of silence was
dismissed, and the ARRB came into being, many of the forgotten enlisted
men, who had been ignored, were able to make statements and clear up a lot
of cover up.
The whole purpose in stealing the body and limousine off to Washington
was to get the body autopsied at a military hospital so that orders would
be given with the right excuse, and the orders would be followed, which
was the case here.
Chris
Anthony Marsh
2017-06-16 01:04:45 UTC
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Post by Beyond Wikipedia
Post by Anthony Marsh
Post by Beyond Wikipedia
Richard "I heard the autopsy doctors discussing JFK being shot in the head
twice" Lipsey?
How about SOURCING and QUOTING what you read somewhere.
You did not hear RIchard Lipsey talking about JFK being shot twice in
the head. Cyril Wecht used to speculate that there MIGHT have been two
shots to the head.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/med_testimony/Lipsey_1-18-78/HSCA-Lipsey.htm
I can remember in my own mind, they're trying to read something into it
that didn't happen. One book came out that he was shot from three
different angles, another report came out he was only shot once, another
that he was shot seven times. All kinds of???Everybody had their own
versions of what happened, how many sounds they heard, and the angles of
the fire they came from. I definitely remember the doctors commenting they
were convinced that the shots came from the same direction and from the
same type of weapon -- and it was three shots.
Q: Did they also feel --did the doctors state that three separate
bullets had struck?
LIPSEY: This is one other thing, that to the best of my memory, today, and
remembering what I thought about when all these reports came out
absolutely, unequivocally yes, they were convinced that he had been shot
three times.
Q: It's unclear to me from the sketch that you did where there are three
bullets.
LIPSEY: One on the right side of his head, one on the upper point of his
neck and one on the lower part of his neck.
That's ONE in the head and 2 in the torso.
No, Lipsey is referring to the EOP entry wound as the "upper neck". Look
at the diagram he drew for the HSCA, it makes his testimony clear. He's
saying that one shot hit him in the back creating a shallow wound, another
shot hit him near the EOP and exited the throat, and another shot created
a tangential wound on the side of the head.
You talk a lot, but you never SHOW.

You mean this theory?

Loading Image...

And you call that the neck and not the head?
YOu say the EOP is in the neck?
Robert Harris
2017-06-13 18:45:08 UTC
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Post by John McAdams
https://www.225batonrouge.com/our-city/richard-lipsey-recalls-present-president-john-f-kennedys-autopsy
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
LOL! So, some general's aide doesn't think this was a conspiracy. Gotta
love his impeccable logic,

"There are hundreds of conspiracy theory groups in the U.S. alone that all
have different ideas about who put Lee Harvey Oswald up to shooting the
president, were there multiple shooters and so on. But, just having been
at the autopsy, there???s no question in my mind that there was a lone
shooter, Lee Harvey Oswald"

So, what exactly did he see at the autopsy which confirmed that no one
"put Oswald up to shooting the president"?

And what did he see that convinced him there were no missed shots, fired
by someone else, especially since we know there were at least two missed
shots?

For that matter, what did he see at the autopsy that proved Oswald fired
any of the shots??

Final question, why even bother with someone who has done no research on
the crime and is less knowledgeable than any members of the newsgroup?

Why not talk about the evidence, instead??

I don't see you doing that these days, John:-)



Robert Harris
mainframetech
2017-06-13 21:41:12 UTC
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Post by John McAdams
https://www.225batonrouge.com/our-city/richard-lipsey-recalls-present-president-john-f-kennedys-autopsy
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Interesting, since Lipsey was part of making the 'decoy' work that
aided getting the body to Bethesda to the morgue long before the family
and agents arrived with the main motorcade. The purpose was ostensibly to
let the press follow the Bronze casket wit the motorcade, while the body
went by helicopter from the airport and was taken to the back door of the
Bethesda morgue.

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/med_testimony/Lipsey_1-18-78/HSCA-Lipsey.htm

Chris
bigdog
2017-06-14 21:40:28 UTC
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Post by mainframetech
Post by John McAdams
https://www.225batonrouge.com/our-city/richard-lipsey-recalls-present-president-john-f-kennedys-autopsy
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Interesting, since Lipsey was part of making the 'decoy' work that
aided getting the body to Bethesda to the morgue long before the family
and agents arrived with the main motorcade. The purpose was ostensibly to
let the press follow the Bronze casket wit the motorcade, while the body
went by helicopter from the airport and was taken to the back door of the
Bethesda morgue.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/med_testimony/Lipsey_1-18-78/HSCA-Lipsey.htm
I always love when you shoot yourself in the foot by citing a witness
whose account is in direct conflict with your beliefs.

LIPSEY: Yeah, well as far as the exact x-rays were taken, no I
don’t recall. I do recall the comments from the doctors, you know,
who started examining the body before they did anything, you know, looking
at the body, looking at where the bullets had entered the back of the his
head. It was obvious that one bullet entered the back of his head and
exited on the right side of his face and pretty well blew away the right
side of his head.
mainframetech
2017-06-15 22:53:09 UTC
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Post by bigdog
Post by mainframetech
Post by John McAdams
https://www.225batonrouge.com/our-city/richard-lipsey-recalls-present-president-john-f-kennedys-autopsy
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Interesting, since Lipsey was part of making the 'decoy' work that
aided getting the body to Bethesda to the morgue long before the family
and agents arrived with the main motorcade. The purpose was ostensibly to
let the press follow the Bronze casket wit the motorcade, while the body
went by helicopter from the airport and was taken to the back door of the
Bethesda morgue.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/med_testimony/Lipsey_1-18-78/HSCA-Lipsey.htm
I always love when you shoot yourself in the foot by citing a witness
whose account is in direct conflict with your beliefs.
LIPSEY: Yeah, well as far as the exact x-rays were taken, no I
don’t recall. I do recall the comments from the doctors, you know,
who started examining the body before they did anything, you know, looking
at the body, looking at where the bullets had entered the back of the his
head. It was obvious that one bullet entered the back of his head and
exited on the right side of his face and pretty well blew away the right
side of his head.
WRONG! So you complain above trained Technologists that have assisted
at 50-60 autopsies, but want to take the word of a lieutenant who was
seeing his first autopsy? I don't think so, and You're even relying on
his medical statements! Ridiculous!

Chris
bigdog
2017-06-16 23:22:12 UTC
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Post by mainframetech
Post by bigdog
Post by mainframetech
Post by John McAdams
https://www.225batonrouge.com/our-city/richard-lipsey-recalls-present-president-john-f-kennedys-autopsy
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Interesting, since Lipsey was part of making the 'decoy' work that
aided getting the body to Bethesda to the morgue long before the family
and agents arrived with the main motorcade. The purpose was ostensibly to
let the press follow the Bronze casket wit the motorcade, while the body
went by helicopter from the airport and was taken to the back door of the
Bethesda morgue.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/med_testimony/Lipsey_1-18-78/HSCA-Lipsey.htm
I always love when you shoot yourself in the foot by citing a witness
whose account is in direct conflict with your beliefs.
LIPSEY: Yeah, well as far as the exact x-rays were taken, no I
don’t recall. I do recall the comments from the doctors, you know,
who started examining the body before they did anything, you know, looking
at the body, looking at where the bullets had entered the back of the his
head. It was obvious that one bullet entered the back of his head and
exited on the right side of his face and pretty well blew away the right
side of his head.
WRONG! So you complain above trained Technologists that have assisted
at 50-60 autopsies, but want to take the word of a lieutenant who was
seeing his first autopsy? I don't think so, and You're even relying on
his medical statements! Ridiculous!
No, I am not relying on Lipsey. I am laughing at you for citing a witness
who refutes what you believe.
mainframetech
2017-06-17 23:37:28 UTC
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Post by bigdog
Post by mainframetech
Post by bigdog
Post by mainframetech
Post by John McAdams
https://www.225batonrouge.com/our-city/richard-lipsey-recalls-present-president-john-f-kennedys-autopsy
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Interesting, since Lipsey was part of making the 'decoy' work that
aided getting the body to Bethesda to the morgue long before the family
and agents arrived with the main motorcade. The purpose was ostensibly to
let the press follow the Bronze casket wit the motorcade, while the body
went by helicopter from the airport and was taken to the back door of the
Bethesda morgue.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/med_testimony/Lipsey_1-18-78/HSCA-Lipsey.htm
I always love when you shoot yourself in the foot by citing a witness
whose account is in direct conflict with your beliefs.
LIPSEY: Yeah, well as far as the exact x-rays were taken, no I
don’t recall. I do recall the comments from the doctors, you know,
who started examining the body before they did anything, you know, looking
at the body, looking at where the bullets had entered the back of the his
head. It was obvious that one bullet entered the back of his head and
exited on the right side of his face and pretty well blew away the right
side of his head.
WRONG! So you complain above trained Technologists that have assisted
at 50-60 autopsies, but want to take the word of a lieutenant who was
seeing his first autopsy? I don't think so, and You're even relying on
his medical statements! Ridiculous!
No, I am not relying on Lipsey. I am laughing at you for citing a witness
who refutes what you believe.
See if you're able to explain yourself. And which witness?

Chris
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